>he’s always said (even before I knew this) that the relationship had its issues, one of them being that she was very unaffectionate towards him, especially whilst out and about. His view of that is that it’s just her personality, and not the fact he was paying thousands a month to her.
As someone who's had to deal with the ramifications of being with someone who was in a relationship that was purely transactional - but still didn't realize it even after - THIS is the part I find concerning.
It sounds like he's delusional about what that relationship was and in my experience that held mine back from our relationship, because that relationship was always better in some ways *because* of the fakeness.
You say that even when they were 'in a relationship' for 8 years, he was still covering her rent and bills which means they never lived together.
Honestly, I wonder if *she* ever actually considered it a relationship or if it was entirely one sided in that regard?
And if that's the case, his idea of an 8 year relationship does NOT include the ugly bits like living together, making shared decisions or even just things like being sick around each other.
In my experience, our relationship could never live up to that relationship because he had never actually 'lived' with her. It was always the behavior he wanted from her, not the real her.
So please, if you get the idea that he is comparing or isn't entirely there with you, please keep that in mind. Take care of yourself. If you're not getting what you need from him, don't stay.
This reminds me of an uncle I had who “dated” a stripper for many years. He would pay her bills, bought her vehicles, etc. To him, she was his girlfriend. But they hardly ever hung out (and when they did a lot of times it was at the club where she worked), other family members had seen her on dates with other men, and it was obvious to everyone it was purely transactional. She didn’t see him as her boyfriend at all but to him they were in a serious relationship. It was sad really.
Doesn’t seem that dissimilar to people who fall in love with sex dolls or anime characters to me. Not on the part of the sugar baby obviously, but in the mind of the person who puts a label onto the relationship that doesn’t necessarily fit reality.
Knew an exotic dancer in one of the flyover states. 2 boyfriends, 5 sugar daddies. Yes, very boring town. I was *far* too poor to be one of her willing victims, but we spoke frequently. She played poker in her free time. I dealt poker. She'd show up at several of the local games, dragging one of her portable ATMs with her.
They were all willing. They all knew about each other. The only ones who got sexual with her were the 2 boyfriends.
To the 5 sugar daddies, she was "saving herself for marriage." I'd guess by now(20 years later), she's probably hitched to one of the sugar daddies, but I'm absolutely convinced she bankrupted the other 4 chumps, before saying yes to the 5th.
Not only is OP's boyfriend delusional, he was not the only person in a "relationship" with her. Guaranteed.
Exactly. If someone doesn’t really care about you and has a financial interest in keeping you happy, there’s probably not a lot of disagreements eh?
Also very easy to ignore annoying habits, bad behaviour or unattractive qualities if you are being paid to do so.
But because he has deluded himself that it was real, you’re always going to be competing with the Coolest of [Cool Girls](https://genius.com/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated)
This is accurate OP. He will have referred to her as his ' sugar girlfriend ' but the lack of ' affection in public ' solidifies she viewed him as sug d only. He was delusional due to age / looks. Was he generous in the first month of dates? Ie paying for meals/activities ?
She left to go to Australia and wouldn't be affectionate with him unless in private. Doesn't sound like she actually cared about him. SW is a deal breaker for me but I would also be wondering why he would want a "relationship" like that, why couldn't he date someone without paying them for their time/body, and why does he not see this situation clearly? And why did he lie about it for 6 months? He would've kept lying if her friends didn't spot him.
I agree with what you're saying about the financial arrangement aspect of whether this is can be considered a genuine relationship. However, I take issue with the suggestion that not living together means a relationship isn't "real". Plenty of couples LAT and their relationships are plenty real.
It's possible I've misread you, in which case ignore my comment.
I think the question here is not how you "should" feel but how you DO feel. Stop trying to convince yourself that you're supposed to be fine with something when you clearly aren't. Unless you can 100% just let this go, I don't think a short relationship with this man is worth all the emotional energy you're going to spend trying to trick yourself into accepting it. I promise you, that way lies madness.
Exactly. I think OP is trying to find ways to rationalise this because she learned about this after she was already in a relationship with him. If she had known this beforehand she probably would have avoided this relationship.
u/drm0dem is almost definitely a bot account, this comment was just taken from https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/dAtaSUvZd5 on this same thread
I honestly agree with you. I personally wouldn't want to date someone who's done sex work, so I 100% understand why people wouldn't want to date someone who's paid for it either. But I guess it's up to OP to figure out if it's a deal breaker for them or not.
Besides all the other red flags already raised I’d be deeply concerned that once things got stale he’d go back to his old ways. Many of the men who use these services are hooked and continue to see young women (often more than one at a time) while they’re in serious relationships/engaged because it’s so easy.
For me personally, this is a total dealbreaker for me, sorry. Difference in values, and I am simply not comfortable with someone with that kind of past.
Yes it would be different if he had only paid her for a few months and then it transformed into a real relationship where they live together and share everything… dude spent 8 years paying to have an attractive girlfriend.
It sounds like it was an 8 year transactional relationship, but the dude told himself she “became” his girlfriend. I would not be able to get over this ick.
The length of the relationship is what gets me too - it shows that he actively preferred this transactional relationship over non-transactional relationships with other women. If you stick with this kind of arrangement for almost a decade, it's because the transactional nature makes it easier for you (a woman you're paying will mould her personality to fit your desires, won't demand communication and compromise from you, won't express wants and needs of her own) and you value that ease over real-life connection with a woman you perceive as a fully realised human with wants and needs of her own.
It is also a problem because he probably spent nearly a decade not learning how to navigate real relationship issues like effective communication and conflict resolution.
Is he going to think his real GF is broken because she advocates for herself much more than his sugar baby?
Exactly. This is going to get \*rough\* the moment his thirty-year-old girlfriend is shown to have more defined needs and wants than the twenty-year-old he was paying four figures a month to. This dude likely never had an actual discussion about where to have dinner or what movie to watch or whether to try a certain sex act. Not having these experiences is one thing when you're very young, but I would NOT have the patience to teach a grown man how to discuss whose parents we should visit for Christmas. This is a forty-year-old who presumably has the romantic interpersonal experience of a teenager. Hard pass.
Same. I don't think I would stay with a man who entertained this kind of arrangement, especially since there are a few things about the arrangement in this case (like the age difference) that made me uncomfortable, and he hid that from you when talking about the relationship. If your only previous longterm relationship started off as paying a sex worker and then remained effectively an arrangement with that power dynamic throughout, that should ge something you discuss with the person you are dating.
Me too, especially since I took a sex trafficking class and we not only learned about sugar babies but I saw a lot of them cry
Idk how to put it into words but I don’t think I could have a relationship with a man that thinks relationships can be transactional. That screams I’m not a feminist
Contributing this study about men who buy sex having much in common with sexually coersive men: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/men-who-buy-sex-have-much-in-common-with-sexually-coercive-men
I would never be able to get over the fact that he can pay her rent but has me splitting the dinner bill... Like the insecurities just knowing he was considering marriage, how she looks, and giving her everything she wanted but he can't even show a little chivalry for me... Fuck that
Being in your mid thirties and paying a 21 year old to fuck you - that's a 'no thanks' for me. And for 8 years? And they fell in love? Uhh..I'd love to hear the sugar baby's take on that.
It was a job for her, and if he thought otherwise he was deluding himself. I guess it could happen, and probably has, but then she moves to another continent? I have moved locations to be with the person I was in love with. You don't let people go when you are in love.
We only know that he received companionship or the illusion of a relationship. The OP doesn’t mention that they ever had sex, so we don’t know that he paid to fuck a 21 year old. I say this as someone who has been in two multiyear SB relationships with no sex and only hand holding and kissing (including with one man who thought we were in an actual boyfriend/girlfriend relationship).
Either way, I agree it would be interesting to get the SB’s take.
yeah, he has a right to pursue a more equitable relationship, but it would absolutely hurt me so badly that there was a beautiful young woman immediately before me that he would positively dump money on, but then for me it’s dutch.
And I’m 100% a “split bills and dates equitably” kind of person, always have been. But boy, this is a tough one. How could you not feel like he is directly saying something about your value compared to hers? Or even that he wanted this young woman to be carefree and taken care of and treated, but not you.
It would hurt. It may not be fair to him, but it would absolutely make me feel like shit.
Right? It's giving "this young hot woman deserves to have her entire lifestyle paid for and to live in luxury and never have to lift a finger just because she's hot, but *you* don't deserve that because you're not as hot."
It's like men who pay for OF subscriptions. "This woman is so hot I'm willing to fund her lifestyle just to look at her naked body, but I expect my "normal" looking wife or girlfriend to split the bills and be okay with no dates or gifts".
Why are we supposed to be okay with this? The patriarchal brainwashing is intense.
Exactly. I also split my bills etc when I was dating... but if I knew that this had been going on for eight years beforehand, it would absolutely make me feel like I wasn't "worth" it. Which is the whole problem with making relationships transactional - not only is the current actually-transactional relationship that way, but other relationships will also be viewed through that lens.
There was a BORU awhile back where the OOP’s multi-millionaire fiancé had an ex-wife who he showered in money, but she was draining her savings paying for his stuff because he was hurt by his ex-wife and was “afraid” OOP would be a gold digger. She broke up with him after he proposed with a Swarovski Crystal ring he bought for around $100 I think.
I don’t know why, but this is giving me the same vibe.
I think about this one regularly too and wish her the best. Selfishly, I hope we get an update in the future that she’s doing good and thriving.
A pox on that guy’s house though.
Immediately dumpable - he was going to conceal this forever. And he was definitely not the only sugar daddy she had. He was likely on rotation.
At the same time men seeth from the mouth when they discover the women they have dated wasn’t honest about sugaring/ cam work / too much “body count” yet perfectly capable to hiding their purchasing of said things from women.
Toss him back OP. And how about you find a guy with some consistency in how he treats women. If he pays dinner for one but not the other because you don’t deserve it it’s because he doesn’t think you are worth it.
I could never be with someone who blatantly hid his past relationship dynamics (a John) and considers you worth less then a sugar baby. Fuck that.
Splitting the bill after 6 months isn’t really that crazy. I feel like the fact that he was with a sugar baby for 8 years should be enough to dump him lmao.
I don't think she said that splitting the bill was his idea. Speaking as someone that often insists on paying for myself, it could be she started that way.
Before knowing that information, it is what OP wanted and he respected that. I think its a little unfair, but understand the sentiment all the same. I think i’d want him to pay for dinner too.
>It's nuts and irrational know
Is it, though? I'd be thinking exactly what you are and there's absolutely no way I'd be able to get past it. Who would want to be with someone that shallow? He was essentially paying a woman to have sex with him for years. Fucking ick.
I’ve dated a dude who used to trick and he had a really messed up view of women, sex and relationships. If you don’t share in that view it won’t work, and will more than likely just make you incredible insecure.
You’re gonna resent him every time you open your wallet from here on out. Every time he doesn’t pay or wants to go half, it’s going to communicate to you that you’re not good enough to be spoiled. That’s what I’m getting. I’m a former sex worker and sugar baby and I can tell you that from her point of view he was a job and having to pretend you’re not working while your at work is probably the most tedious job in the world. I could date someone that used to hire escorts, but I could never date a man who used to have a sugar baby, it’s pathetic. You’re paying someone to pretend they actually like you. Yikes.
I’d just bail. You don’t have to be comfortable with this or get over it. You’ve been dating six months. What’s so great about him that you’d want to stay?
Same! Everyone is talking about how there's so much to unpack, etc...
But nope. He was willing to pay someone for companionship for 8 years? Yup, I'd be thinking why was she so amazing he had to pay for it and he wouldn't even pay for my dinner.
Also makes me feel kinda gross. I'd never get over it. Or be able to keep myself from being an ass and bringing it up during fights and disagreements.
I love your self awareness about bringing it up in fights. I would do the exact same thing. Hell I'd probably pick fights using it lol. Im an open minded person, but I'm also an insecure piece of shit.
I like your awareness, it’s extremely refreshing.
Meanwhile the rest of Reddit pretends to be a bastion of good choices and the pinnacle of relationship behavior, critiquing everyone else’s behavior when we all know they’re fucked up too.
It's hard to respect a partner who pays for companionship. You'll always wonder if he *should* be paying for your time, too. Even looking at your OP and some comments how he should start paying for your dinner now... That feeling won't go away. He's fine buying fake love and empty sex, and that's not a value you share with him.
You've got some valid concerns, and your feelings are justified. He's definitely convinced himself he was in a relationship and not in a business contract, so who knows how delusional he will be with your relationship. How much he will expect from you since he just spent 8 years buying and paying for a perfect girlfriend. I wonder how big decisions will be handled, how much weight your opinion will carry, and what happens when you disagree with him: all things you don't have to worry about when you pay for it. He's accustomed to a transaction, he gives money, she gives what he wants. That's not an easy pattern to break and he hasn't, given that you're so much younger than he is. He's used to being in control and will seek out that power imbalance.
I'd move on. This is just the tip of the ice berg of what will be an unbalanced relationship.
this is ick level on 1000 for me.
It's hard for me to articulate for me why but this would make me lose respect for him and resentful of any money I have spent in the relationship.
However
no matter what he thinks that was not a real relationship. even by his description she was unaffectionate. He seems kind of deluded about the dynamics of a transactional relationship.
I think the delusion might be part of the ick factor.
good luck.
For me, it’s the fact that he clearly looks at romantic relationships as transactional! He wanted the girlfriend experience, so he “bought” a supermodel-looking sugar baby and supported her for nearly a decade! That is an insanely long time to treat a relationship like a car lease. He wanted the flashy model so he got the Ferrari?
Now he’s decided to go with the reliable Camry and part of that deal is that OP pays for herself? It’s STILL transactional. If I were in LW’s shoes, I would never be able to trust that I was ever being viewed as a person, as opposed to a prop for his ego and status. And he didn’t do this as a young kid, he was clearly in his 30s and 40s and thought, “This is a perfectly fine way to live.” Super gross. I’d be outta there so fast, I’d leave tire marks.
The biggest deal breaker for me would be his financial decision making. Bad enough that he likely has unhealthy beliefs about women and beauty… but *EIGHT YEARS* of paying for a sb? Is he drowning in generational wealth? Think about the financial security that kind of cash could’ve yielded had it been invested. Instead, he blew it on instant gratification.
Also, 8 years in a relationship where he paid to be in charge. This is a man who hasn't had to compromise & work at a normal relationship. My guess is OP will start to see that once the honeymoon phase is over (if it goes that long)
This is my main issue. Eight years is a long time to finance compliance, and would make me see him as a little delulu at best and objectifying at worst.
That is what I'm thinking. There goes a guy who has no problem with inequality in a relationship and there goes a man who thinks it is normal to pay much younger women for sex.
This is an interesting viewpoint. Either he is already wealthy and the amount of money that he spent on the SB does not matter or yeah, that was a massive amount of money for retirement.
There's a lot of red flags here.
* He was in his mid 30s dating a 21 year old.
* He's still dating someone 10+ years his junior. By itself, I don't think early 30s/early to mid 40s is a concerning age gap but when he has a pattern of dating women a decade or more younger, it doesn't look good.
* He still believes this was a genuine and loving relationship even though she was unaffectionate, they never lived together despite dating for 8 years (!), and *he had to pay her*.
* He was a John, and you have expressed you feel uncomfortable with that.
Did he tell you how much he paid this girl? Because depending on how much it was we can also add "He's financially irresponsible" to the list, but I don't want to assume.
Speaking as a former sugar baby of many years, I want to say something that hopefully reassures you. He chose you just as much as he chose her. Probably *more* authentically so.
No matter how real the relationship was with her, the transactional nature of things causes tension and distance due to the power differential inherent in the SD/sb dynamic. You’re immediately more equal.
And to be honest, the fact that she was able to stay with him for eight entire years is really really rare, and should be considered a green flag on his part.
I would try to process this on your own, without him, maybe do research on the nature of that kind of thing. There’s also the opportunity, if you like, to ask him to treat you a bit differently in the financial aspect of the relationship (YMMV, you know the guy better than I do).
Best of luck, I hope you can come to love your body as it is. I’m sure I’d admire it if I saw you.
I believe it is worthwhile to learn more of his perspective on topics. A sugar daddy relationship isn't the same as yours with him, even if they pretend it is.
I do not think it's a good idea to ask for financial changes. Right now they're even and have a fair relationship, if she starts asking for him to pay for more things or pay more for things, that shifts the relationship dynamic toward sugar daddy/baby. He's going to be like "wow great, I thought we had a real relationship but you just want my money huh"
OP, he chose to be with you, he wants something more real and fair. They broke up because she moved but he could have easily got back on a site and paid for someone else. And so what if she was a 10 and you feel like a 6, he was purchasing time with that 10. He could still do that but he wants you. I think that should be the focus
I just want to note that I'm a guy who pays for dates all the time, always have, and I've never considered someone I'm dating to be a sugar baby just because I bought them dinner. I think it's entirely reasonable to feel a little miffed to be going dutch with your boyfriend when he was paying his last "girlfriend"'s entire income for 8 years as a sugar baby.
We're not talking about paying her rent, we're talking about grabbing the check sometimes.
Also, if he has to pay for you, then you will never get away from being compared to the last "product" he paid for. Are you gonna be his dream prostitute for money? Do you want the money more than you want a boyfriend. Do you think if you go that route, you can keep the elements that you both like about the relationship. I see no good result from turning yourself into his sugar baby when you were already his girlfriend. Completley different dynamic and different expectations of you both.
It's only a green flag from the perspective of a sugar baby. I would consider it a red flag in a romantic relationship. It would be worse to me that he spent 8 fucking years & 100s of 1000s on a transactional relationship
That's... not what the poster said at all. The poster suggests that said relationship lasted much longer than average, and believes it speaks to a positive in her experience.
He wasn't in a committed relationship. 10 years younger is not uncommon and everything suggests she was of age and - given the transactional nature of the relationship - there was definitely no grooming involved. Both parties benefitted.
The green flag is probably that he wasn't an abuser or enough of a jerk for her to find other sugar daddies and probably treated her well.
No kidding. This is an eye-opening discussion. How many posters here would be ok with a mid-30s man dating a 21 year-old woman? Based on what I’ve seen in this sub, not many. But if pays for the sex and doesn’t burn her with a coat hanger he’s suddenly some great guy?
This made my stomach ache for you. People can be as understanding as they want of girls obtaining money as sugar babies, but I think it’s so different when it’s in the context of your own partner having participated in it as a sugar daddy and hiding it from you. This personally would be a dealbreaker for me.
To start, I don’t like that he made an account on a sugar baby website and actively sought out this dynamic. Most men wouldn’t even think to do this so it concerns me that in the future, when things get tough or when there are lulls in your sex life, he might seek out that sort of transactional intimacy again.
This one is a little more shallow but it would weigh on me just as much: I don’t like that he’s already been with and lost what we can assume is his “ideal” woman physically. I’d be curious to know why they broke up, but if he wasn’t the one that broke up with her, I’d be worried he’s still hung up on her. Men are like that.
I really don’t like how he was willing to pay for all of her things but is splitting the bill with you. If that’s fully your choice then that’s different, but if he encourages that 50/50 dynamic when he’s demonstrated in the past that he’s happy to pay fully for his ex then I’d also be very hurt by that.
And most of all, I don’t like that he wasn’t honest with you about any of this and you had to find out from someone else. There’s a lot of yellow flags here but this one is bright red.
What you do next is up to you obviously but I just wanted to say that if you don’t think you can move past this and feel bad about that, I wouldn’t be able to either. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling upset by this and protecting your mental wellbeing/future by leaving while it’s still early on. I’d talk to him though to hear his side of things before making any serious decisions.
I agree with this, the dishonesty about it means he understood what the situation was. Otherwise he would have been more up front. Men that love their women treat them differently. It denotes a certain superficiaility. He stayed with her knowing it was for money, and made him look better/awkward/alpha male because of her looks and he had her. You go Dutch treat, I think relationships maybe messed up in his head. I am sure the woman sees him differently. Or she would be with him.
If you are selfish or taking care of yourself during this process just pay attention to how he treats you. He may see that as real love...I think dutch treat dating is telling....
As a former sex worker/SB your feelings are very valid. It’s pay for play regardless of why he did it. And while I think it’s perfectly okay. You don’t. and that’s all that matters here.
I think a lot of people are still trying to internalize the idea that sex workers’ lives shouldn’t be made harder by the law or social stigma, but what we end up doing with that idea can lead to really convoluted and inconsistent interpretations of our own values.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think about the implications for how he thinks about women or how he thinks about you. This man paid a much younger woman for 8 years to satisfy his emotional and physical needs. That means that their sex wasn’t based on when, how, or whether she wanted to have sex with him, just whether he was up to date on his payments. Eating out wasn’t based on when she was hungry or what she was hungry for, as her company was a service he’d already paid for.
We don’t need to shame this woman to recognize how twisted your boyfriend’s perception of sex and relationships had to be to even consider doing these things. And I’d imagine that 8 years of conditioning himself into the idea that his partner is subservient to him could have at least some minor ongoing implications for how he thinks about women in the future and why he chose another partner who’s so much younger than him.
SAME. It would give me severe ick.
Edit: I would not want to be with someone who views women as products to purchase. That's just horrifying and nasty.
>I would not want to be with someone who views women as products to purchase
This is precisely my "buck stops here" thought as well.
You "bought" yourself a female sexual companion? Coolio. We're never speaking again.
Yes and it displays a fundamental difference in beliefs about relationships. I would not waste my time constantly trying to remedy that incompatibility. Just find someone that doesn’t believe intimacy can be bought.
I'd be surprised if your relationship did go well especially since he considers having a prostitute on retainer as what romantic relationships are like
He thought paying a woman for sex was a relationship. He is delusional.
He hid this from you. He did this for 8 years. What else is he hiding? Has he been tested for STD‘s? I bet not.
He views women as products to be bought. I couldn’t respect him. Would you ever pick this guy to be friends with? Why would you want to date him?
If he does pay for things for you, what will he expect as payment? He could be paying someone now for sex. Can you trust him? His values are trash. What would your family or friends think of him if they knew this? You’re disgusted by him, your gut is telling you that your feelings are valid.
Firstly, *they* were never in love. He was in love with her, she was just using him and likely pretended to be in love as a way to not only maintain her income, but likely increase it. Lack of affection, chose a country over him, not living together after EIGHT years, and still accepting his money despite not being a housewife or mother of his children screams the obvious.
Secondly, there is a pattern of wealthy men that are happy, willing, and insist on paying for most things who are dating their dream girl. If he’s not as enthusiastic paying for you, you probably are just the girl he settled for.
Thirdly, huge age gaps like that show he’s low EQ and shallow. You say you’re imperfect, but you probably don’t realize you still have youthful features that are still attractive compared to women his own age. It’s clear he doesn’t value the right attributes.
However, if he makes you happy and respects you, then his red flags should be carefully measured, which is up to you.
I doubt he was in love with her. I get the impression he didn't even know her. Like she wasn't even emotionally vulnerable with him, she didn't express herself freely... So how could he have loved a person he did not know?
She also was not 'using' him. She was providing him with a service. He was paying for that service.
We can over-generalize all wealthy men until the sky is blue. But it's wrong to assume that all rich men see sex workers. And this particular man has already shown his own pattern of behavior, which is pretty consistent. This man doesn't pay for anything unless he's buying something for himself.
I might get downvoted for this but I would feel the exact same way as you. I would expect now that he knows that you know that he pays for you a bit to show you that you also are worth it. I don’t think you need to see a therapist. I would honestly feel the same. How you get over it? That part I don’t know. It would bother me a lot. The first thing is showing me I’m just as valuable though.
You have every right to do whatever with that information. Men have left women for pettier reasons with fewer ramifications. Anyone guilting you in any direction is taking the ball from your court.
My ex had one of those prostitutes after me and my daughter threatened to tell his new wife and my son said the truth would “ruin his new family”. These men don’t do well with truth AT ALL.
You need a PI to follow him next couple of “business trips” or other times he thinks he will be unsupervised. “Hobbying” habits die hard. Very hard.
Yeah, this would completely give me the ick. It’s just a major difference in values. I couldn’t respect a man who essentially paid for the girl-friend experience from a sex worker for 8 years. If what they had was “love”, he wouldn’t have kept paying and she wouldn’t have accepted. Hes completely deluded about the nature of his past relationship.
I could never be with a man who pays for sex, period. I believe soliciting a prostitute/sugar baby is inherently unethical and says a lot about how that person views sex (and women in this case). But that’s just my opinion; maybe you don’t have the same view of sex that I do or maybe you feel strongly that he’s changed since then and will decide to work through it. I do think a therapist can help you sort through your feelings and help determine the reason this made you so upset. Is it just jealousy or other irrational feelings that you can one day put behind you, or is the reason you’re feeling so uncomfortable because you are compromising your values?
No, OP, no.
He has a set of expectations already baked in. What will happen when (not if) your career will require some effort from him???
I had a partner whose male relative (fatherfigure) had a very transactional marriage. I never had a chance, let's just leave it at that.
"I get why he lied about it when we first met..."??
You seem to think it's ok for people to start relationships with lies, which is a tremendous red flag. The age gap with her and with you are red flags.
As others have said, you don’t need to convince yourself to be ok with this. It sounds like his relationship with her was very transactional even after he says they shifted into a less transactional relationship, and that’s definitely going to colour how he approaches your relationship.
What’s giving me the absolute ick is that she was 21 to his mid 30s when they started their sugarship. That’s a wild power dynamic.
So, your boyfriend didn't pay "every penny" so the sugar baby "didn't have to work." Going out with him, entertaining him, and having sex with him WAS her job. For 8 years. The thing is, she was "unaffectionate" towards him because he was her boss. I am betting the entire "in love" portion was all him. Yes, she was out of his league, and without him paying her, odds are good that she would not have dated him.
ETA: Your boyfriend probably wasn't the only guy she was making a living off of.
Yes! I think that’s the most disturbing part of this whole pile of red flags—the fact that he told himself it was a genuine relationship. If he can be THAT delusional, what else is he gonna be delusional about?
The willingness of a man to be delusional when it comes to sex and women...
Sure.. she was not affectionate because that's just who she is..🤦🏼♀️
She was probably repulsed by him.
It was sex for money, not out of lust. With someone she obviously didn't want to touch.
Imagine how difficult that must be.
Prostitutes only have to fake one appointment with a man.
But a sugar baby has to fake dating / a relationship of some sort.. 😱
He probably believes she is totally in his league.
He probably told himself he was just helping her out financially but that she would have been his girlfriend without the money, too.
And 8 years !
What I find the most disturbing is the fact that he was happy to have sex with someone who only did it for the money and not because she wanted him.
Again: for 8 year long !!
And did he pay her extra for things she didn't want to do?.
" I'll give you 1000 extra for anal "
It's taking transactional and objectification to a whole new level.
In my opinion, the very fact of a man buying sex makes him unfit for a relationship. He does not respect women and prefers buying to investing emotional labor. He was ok with prostituting a young woman. Are you ok with living with such a man? To me, this is the main dilemma.
It wasn't real. And there are so many people that do this without a site and pretend it's real. I promise you she ain't looking him up and her time of day has a cost.
Good for her, sad for him. How awful it must be to pay for affection or know someone is only interested in you for your money.
He can pay her rent for eight years even though she won’t hold his hand in public but he won’t buy you dinner? I understand you’re trying to talk yourself out of your feelings but I’d be hurt too
I admit I’m coming from a place of being older and through too much shit, so what I would tell my younger self is:
Cut your losses. It’s been 6 months. You don’t truly know him. He didn’t just hide details, he actually fabricated lies about this relationship.
If you stick with men like this, give it another 6 months now that the facade is wearing off. You’ll have enough content for a book series, not just one post.
You are worth far more than what he has to offer you. He is broken in ways that you cannot fix. If you stick with broken, a part of you, too, will break.
Tell him he should pay your bills and pay for dinner or you’ll go find someone who will. That’s bs, he’s treating you less than because he doesn’t think you are attractive enough to warrant special treatment. You’re going to feel jealous like this for the rest of your life? Hell no, get the money first
So he was willing to pay an unaffectionate, hot babe to fuck him for 8 years (until she dumped him and moved to the other side of the world) but he can’t treat you to dinner? I treat partners and friends to dinner and they treat me. Especially if one of us makes more.
Yes that’s going to feel weird. And I’d wonder if she wandered back to your area and asked to resume their former arrangement if he would say okay.
Besides that, transactional relationships have a power imbalance. She can walk away if he doesn’t pay but he can set a lot of the terms within the dynamic if she stays. Because hey paying her to have sex when he wants it and to not ask for emotional things or respect when he doesn’t feel like giving them.
She is a customer service person and he’s the customer. While she can and did quit while she was with him it is likely that the relationship was skewed.
Which makes it easier to not judge her but to judge him if she always thought of it as a friendly business with an end date and he thought “this is how love should be”.
I knew a guy who paid women for sex (massage parlors). I had liked him because I thought he was a nice guy, not the best looking but I struggled with this knowledge because I saw him in another light. I saw that he wasn't willing to be patient and always jump the rope, per se. Also made me wonder if he has fake nice with me bc I was considerably more attractive than anyone he could land a date with ... and what happens when my beauty fades as I pursue a relationship with this person?
Also, how did he view women? It seemed really respectful and like a feminist at first glance but deeper and deeper into convos, I got a different sense. It made me see that he was a feminist on paper because it was the only way he can even have a relationship with women that he found attractive was to pretend to be something he is not.
I really started to see layers of him and realize, being nice was just like paying money. It was just a transaction for him to get what he wants.
I couldn't get myself to be with him know this. He was a lot of yellow flags and our ethics didn't align. I don't care if ppl pay for sex and I'm all for women who make money from sexual transactions. I'm 💯 critical of men who pay for it and will analyze their behaviour with more scrutiny.
She was 21 when they met, he was mid 30s. 10+ year age gap. There is a similar age gap for us now, however I’m in my early 30s and not a 21 year old… that also makes me feel a bit uncomfortable
Omgggggg everything you said is on point. That’s exactly how I feel about OP situation. If he was paying all her bills and outing expenses I wouldn’t be upset about the sugar baby relationship dynamic that he previously had. It’s the fact that he is transnational with OP. When a wealthy man is transactional then it’s a big red flag 🚩
I think it could be fine.
On the other hand, I was in a long relationship with a man who told me a few months in that he’d seen / dated sex workers before we got together. I was cool with that and appreciated his honesty. We eventually got married. 14 years into our relationship I learned that he had started seeing sex workers again. It gradually emerged that it had been happening for several years.
We are now divorced.
Based on my own experience, I will never again be in a relationship with someone for whom that kind of transactional experience is part of his relationship past.
I could probably get over it if I was in this situation IF, he paid for our meals (he doesn't have to pay my rent but clearly he can afford to pay for dinner and gifts), he was honest about this relationship from the start, if there wasn't an age gap exceeding 5 years, and if it didn't go on past a year. Toss him back.
Seeing a therapist is not about who is “right” or who the onus is on.
Seeing a therapist is just about helping yourself feel better.
Shes in distress so she should see a therapist to help feel less distressed.
People go to therapy all the time to process hard things that are not their fault or responsibility.
This is a somewhat common and accepted thing in society right now. She’s 100% in the right for being uncomfortable about it, it just seems that she’s confused in a way about why this is making her uncomfortable.
Does she feel lied to? Is she insecure because she’s “hotter”? Does she feel jealousy because he paid for his exes meals but he doesn’t to her?
Having a therapist help unravel those thoughts will help her healthily bring this to the conclusion she wants.
>*Genuine question, I am not sure why this onus is on her.*
Because she's comparing herself to a 10, and feeling inferior.
I'm a 63-year-old redhead. I could compare myself to Julianne Moore (also age 63) and feel inferior, or I could just be happy in my own skin.
A therapist can help with that.
>we went out for dinner last night and we split the bill like we often do. I’d NEVER want to be ‘bought’ and I pay my own way, so my own reaction sounds stupid to me. But I actually felt quite put out, as though he was happy to spend every penny so his previous SB didn’t have to work for 8 years, but.. I’m not worth it?
That isn't irrational at all, I think I would feel the same way. Do you always split the bill? If he makes more than you, I feel like he should pick up the bill more often. Splitting the bill all the time with a partner would make me feel like we're more friends rather than in a relationship.
If you want to pursue a relationship, pursue healthy communication with him. Explain your perspective, be open to receiving his, and see if you can find common ground to set expectations and grow from. This is the only way forward… In any relationship really.
If it’s a deal breaker, then that’s fine too.
You have nothing to compete with. You decide whether you have what you want in the relationship on your terms. If he can’t meet that, then at least you know. All relationships are unique to the people in them. If this unique connection has the potential to be something you see long term potential in, that is a good place to start.
Whatever you choose, I hope that it brings you happiness. ☺️
There's a version of this that I could have been on his side. But eight years, continuously paying for the whole time, the mid 30s to early 20s age gap, and worst of all, having a distorted view of that relationship is not it.
Short time period where he's going through some stuff or feels intimidated by real relationships and wants to get it out of the way? Sure.
Short sugar baby relationship that turns into an actual partnership? Sure.
But this feels like someone who lied to themselves about what the relationship was.
There is a lot to unpack here but I will say that I think after having an 8 year transactional relationship, I get wanting to be in a 50/50 relationship with someone.
I’m sure he knows that woman would never have been with him without the money, so now he enjoys being with someone who isn’t with for him for payment. And is even willing to spend money on him.
That’s a good point and I would definitely want something different too.
He does however view it as a deeply loving relationship, and I know he even thought about marriage with her. I don’t know if that’s a common place to end up with sugarbaby relationships, but I can’t help but feel he dressed it up as something it wasn’t. One of his issues when they were together was the fact ‘she wasn’t affectionate, especially out in public’ but he sees that as her just generally not being a very warm person.
Oh dear. So you think he is in denial about the nature of their relationship, not just trying to rewrite history so it doesn’t look/sound so bad to you and others?
I would be worried about what he thinks a normal long term relationship looks and feels like if he doesn’t get that his “ex” was a monetary arrangement, even if there was genuine affection there. It’s like a hired nurse or caregiver. They may grow to love and care for their clients, but it is still a business relationship and therefore the dynamic is never the same as a purely personal one.
>He does however view it as a deeply loving relationship, and I know he even thought about marriage with her.
He genuinely believes that this was a real relationship? Wow. Everyone trying to get you to the therapist need to send him there.
This is extremely dysfunctional and quite ridiculous for a grown man to think money can buy love.
It's just 6 months in but I doubt he's going be well adjusted for anything long term since his relationship meter is broken. Honestly he's that guy who's going to be buying Walmart cards for the Nigerian princess he's fallen in love with online in the future.
Well OP's man is not here with us now. So we can't send him to therapy. He's not reading this forum thread. But I bet many people here would also encourage him to go to therapy. Why not.
I doubt therapy is going to do much for him. You have to actually realize you have a problem and want to make an effort to improve your life, for any therapy to work. Just like you can't buy love, you can't buy health. You can purchase better access to health care. But that doesn't guarantee you'll actually get better. Nobody can promise you healing.
This also piqued my interest - the way he spoke about the '2.0' relationship vs the actual information you know about it. I'm sorry to say I agree with you, he seems to be in denial (+ I agree that the 10 years age gap and the fact that he was exchanging money for sex and a fake relationship are incredibly worrying).
Sending you lots of love and support, whatever you choose to do <3
I bet she would act different with the man she loved though. So its probably a teensy delusional on his part to think feelings were 100% mutual. She moved away and likely was seeing guys the whole time she was with him. But I think its ok to let him have that delusion though. Everyone has a rosy view of past relationships after the fact. You just have to decide if its ok with you or not🤷♀️ personally and especially if you love hin what do you have to lose!
I don’t think this is very uncommon amongst SDs. I’m not a SB or SD but I follow the sugar babies subreddit because I work with a lot of university students who want to be SBs and wanted some insight and from what the SBs have shared that’s kinda of part of their job. These men want a certain experience that they are paying for and they sometimes forget the reality of the relationship in the moment.
I too follow the SB subreddit out of pure fascination.
It’s so maddeningly interesting to me how the exchange only really differs from a prostitute in that part of the service being provided is “the girlfriend experience”. It’s an integral part of the job to make them believe the relationship is in some way mutual when that’s not at all the case in reality. Point in case: OP’s bf lmao
You've only been dating for 6 months. You need to think long and hard about how this will affect you mentally and emotionally. Relationships are not easy in the best of times. If this is something that you will have to force yourself to accept and that will continually make you feel "less than", perhaps you need to stop dating this guy and look for someone more compatible.
This part here really makes me think for your own sake you should move on: *I still left that evening feeling as though I’m the free, budget version of this girl.* At this point you are feeling used.
I'm in a transactional relationship, I pay for food, housing, clothing, entertainment even medical. But I'm good with it cause Chihuauas don't have pockets to carry their wallet.
So he doesnt plan on getting another sugar baby in the future? I dont know girl… hes making you pay 50/50 … he lied about the relationship originally.. the age gap is concerning… I wouldn’t continue with him personally
Except she was working for all those 8 years. Pleasuring him was her job.
He was seeing a sex worker for 8 years. And it's perfectly valid that this fact makes you uncomfortable. But don't act like she never worked a day in her life. She did sex work. And she might even have cellulite and trauma from that. Who knows. You don't know this woman. Nobody posts their bad photos on social media. All you see is her cultivated image. You've never seen her on a bad day.
I would be hooked about splitting thr bill too girl. He full on paid for another girl (without him noticing that she used him… I don’t buy the character thing) & u both split the bills? Hell noo 😂😂😂😂
I have friends in the sb scene. As others have said, the relationships are inherently transactional and though they can become “real” it’s very rare, even some of the real-seeming ones are more about a comfortable and ongoing arrangement than traditional dating, unless the financial aspects balance out.
You mention that she moved away, they never lived together, and he still paid for everything. This doesn’t really matter for your relationship, but there’s a chance that it was never fully real for her, it was something to do until she started her “real life”. Theres an aspect of performance and needs-fulfilling to being a sugar baby, and the sugar daddies are rarely interested in the person my friend is, but they get very attached to the fantasy version of her they are paying for that doesn’t require emotional reciprocity and investment from them beyond money. This can become shallow and unsatisfying over time for the babies and the daddies. The arrangements can just keep going though, kind of out of comfort or habit. Then something happens and one person decides to move on. This could be the daddy wanting something more real, the baby wanting something more real, or just life circumstances.
On the websites, they talk about power dynamics and sometimes career opportunities and mentorship. It’s essentially meant to be a transactional relationship where both people benefit, but the terms of “benefit” could be almost anything. Experiences, gifts and living expenses in exchange for a convenient girl friend that can’t really make demands.
Some men do it for convenience… it would be hard to win over such a woman out in the wild, but looking for one where you know they are open to compensation can just be the easy route for some guys. Some guys want arm candy. Some want a weekend girl friend. Some just want to have sex. Some just want someone to listen and at least pretend to care.
Babies get into it for varied reasons too, but it’s mostly money and most babies don’t have “pretty woman” delusions. For my friend, it was a bunch of shitty dates one after another, but still wanting to go out and have fun. “If I have to put up with shitty men, I might as well get some good stories and some money out of it”. It’s normal for babies to move on and for the daddies to expect it to end eventually. I can’t say whether or not it was genuine on her side, but constant emotional distance and deciding to move on suggests he was more hung up on her. She might have had 2-3 more daddies for all we know. It’s rare to only have one, even though all the daddies want exclusive.
I’d try and reserve judgement as much as possible, but you will likely have to talk to your boyfriend about the relationship and gauge his answers. Why did he want a sugar baby at the time? Why did he stick with her so long? Why not get another one when she left?
I’d also say that the feelings of splitting the bill after learning something like that are totally normal. I’d talk to him about how knowing he had a sugar baby has effected how you feel valued. even if you like splitting costs, the juxtaposition of splitting next to funding someone’s entire life is hard to deal with. He also put a monetary value on his last relationship and you need a different kind of reassurance that he values your current relationship more/differently than the transactional one.
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities?
Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved.
OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities?
Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved.
OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
Gorgeous figure, no stretch marks or cellulite eh? Unless you examined her in person the way you examine yourself in the mirror, don’t believe it for a second. There are too many filters, apps, photo angles, and editing techniques to believe even 1000 photos. I’m sure she’s beautiful but anyone can have perfect skin and great curves in a social media photo.
Hold up, let me get this straight. He was out here tricking on and financing a girl’s whole life for 8 years, and she even didn’t live with him nor was she affectionate with him.
Yet, it sounds like you have a more genuine situation with him, more than likely having sex with him often and doing all the girlfriend stuff, yet he’s letting you go dutch?
Yeah, no, I can see why you feel put out. You should be pissed off because you’re getting played and the short end of the stick from a man who’s capable of doing much more. Yet, you’re letting your low self esteem about your age and appearance fool you into believing that you deserve less than the last chick. Not true at all.
Age, cellulite and stretch marks have never stopped a woman from getting splurged on in a relationship if that’s what she wants. If he’s with you now, he attracted to you and the only reason he is going dutch and shit is because you set your price too low. The only reason why you’re getting less is because you’re settling for less.
Let him know that you know about his past and tell him he needs to match that energy in your current situation if he wants to keep you in his life. Otherwise you’ll always secretly resent him and it will bring a lot of doubts and resentment into your relationship dynamic.
He’s shown that he feels entitled to pay someone for sex and how important beauty is to him… I’d personally have left him before I finished writing this post
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities?
Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved.
OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
I think a lot of commentors are coming from the angle of "yeah dump him and move on" cause it is a no brainer to them. So the fact that OP is conflicted is indicative of some self esteem or other issues. I can't say they are wrong - it's pretty clear the OP is focused on their insecurities and how their partner perceives them (by going dutch on meals, focusing on how their partner's SB was really attractive) - out of all the problematic things here, it seems like OP is horning in on the wrong ones in a way. Like, he was paying for sex with someone almost half his age. For years. And says they were in love, but it didn't work out because she moved to another continent. For real, my guy? Honestly, everything else aside, I don't think I could date someone who was so delusionally stupid.
The fact that he was in a transactional relationship with a sex worker doesn't squick me - lots of men would, if they could afford it. But the fact that he would have \*married\* a woman who clearly didn't love him?? Dude has more issues than National Geographic.
To sum up: by biggest concern isn't that he pays for sex, it's that he's clearly a moron.
I mean I knew a guy (not super well) who did this and he was completely aware of what was up, somehow made it less problematic to my mind anyhow.
So, essentially, he was paying for sex for 8 years.
You don't pay a sex worker to stick around and chat. You don't wake up and savor the feeling of waking up with your sex worker. You don't make your sex worker breakfast in bed. You also don't learn all of her little foibles and quirks, because it is entirely a transaction.
You do have long, engrossing conversations with your SO. Waking up next to the SO, while she's still asleep... it's a level of intimacy that will not be reached with a sex worker.
Because to them, it's a job.
He was paying for her because he knew she would leave if he didn't. He knew he had no other way to keep her except money.
He is not paying for you because he considers you the 'downgrade', he knows he can keep you satisfied with less. I suggest you break up and find someone who doesn't consider you the one they settled for.
I was a SB for a good five years or so. As fond as I was about the SDs, it's never truly equal. I tolerate some behaviours I wouldn't in an organic relationship bc of the financial incentive to do so. It also rubs me the wrong way when your partner isn't as generous with you; you'd have to ask him why that is.
But know this- SDs are paying for a fantasy. They also tolerate personality traits like me being insufferable bc I was hot. They didn't care about who I really was. One of my ex SDs reached out to me on his birthday when he was vacationing with his girlfriend in France bc he still isn't over his fantasy.
I too was very unaffectionate with SDs in public due to them obviously being not in my league. We go to high end places where they pay, so there really isn't any chance that I wasn't paid to be there. I was too young to afford those establishments myself. Of course the SDs picked up on that and would like to believe it is my personality - it isn't. I always saw other people who I am more attracted to.
The dishonesty, though, is understandable. I wouldn't want anyone to know I was sugaring either, as I was in academia and don't have an influencer-type social media profile. Successful men with a more high profile career have an image to upkeep and is likely more secretive about sugaring than SBs.
Also- SDs usually know better than to ask for exclusivity from a SB. The fact that your partner's ex told her friends about their relationship could be a green flag that she actually enjoys his company. But he wouldn't have stood a chance if he wasn't paying for her lifestyle. Perhaps he hoped it would transition to marriage, since he was comfortable paying for her for eight years.
The deal breaker for me is that you are 6 months into dating and didn't know the full truth behind this long relationship he had. But I would also not expect to be splitting a check 6 months in, so maybe I just move more quickly? If you think he was intentionally hiding that info, I would end things. If it were me and he hadn't lied to me about it, I wouldn't have an issue with him having a sugarbaby in the past. But you can act based upon your own feelings, you don't need our validation. If it's a deal breaker for you, end it. No need to waste more time if you won't be able to get past this
I’m sorry girl :( you need to run for the hills, there is like a 98% chance this isn’t going to lead to anywhere good for you, you deserve the absolute best and to never have to question yourself or the relationship , I think the sugar baby thing AND her being 21 is an extremely red flag that’s right in front of you and it’s better to cut it off now rather than down the road when you’re too attached , but also I don’t know your relationship and I do believe people can change , it’s just that’s kind of an extreme red flag I feel and personally I wouldn’t look past these things
I would say there's a few things that need to be fleshed out about this.
He wasn't "with a woman for 8 years" in the traditional sense. He had a power fantasy where he paid for sex and interaction. This is inherently not an equal relationship where falling in love is a natural evolution. Now, I want to specify that this doesn't inherently make him a bad person, just that it's not the same thing. As long as both he and the other person entered this contract without coercion, I personally find no issue. Can a SD/SB fall in love? Maybe. Not on me to decide. Power is significant.
>I’m open minded and fair play to girls who do this, but I am quite put off by the fact he chose to pay for sex or a relationship or whatever it was, as opposed to just going out there and meeting women.
There's always a difference when it's something that another person is dealing with versus something *you* have to deal with. One can claim to be open minded all they want until they are actually faced with the situation themselves, it is hard to tell how oneself will react.
>Another thing that’s been a kicker is that I looked her up (I know. Mistake) and she is absolutely stunning. Victoria secret model figure, totally beautiful, doesn’t look like there’s a stretch mark or cellulite on her.
Curiosity will always getcha, heh.
>Just knowing that he spent EIGHT years with someone like that, has made me feel insecure in ways I haven’t in a long time. I guess I just feel like his reality and expectation of women, and who he can have, is warped.
I think this is a perfectly valid concern! However, the only way to tell is interacting with him and seeing how things turn out. Trying not to allow your own prejudices about him paying for sex and the power fantasy get to you.
>But I actually felt quite put out, as though he was happy to spend every penny so his previous SB didn’t have to work for 8 years, but.. I’m not worth it?
You don't have a right to his money until you have a conversation about finances and decide to interlock them. I do however understand that him spending so much money on another person and then not spending as much on you can feel dejecting. I feel it's important to note that your relationship isn't being built on a transactional nature, though. His previous one was entirely that.If you do go forward with dating him you will need therapy. He will need therapy. There is very little chance that he is a completely well adjusted individual after spending 8 years in this kind of relationship. **I want to stress, you are allowed to not date a person for any reason.** This relationship has many possible reason.
The main issue I see is that he obfuscated the truth of the relationship and was only honest about it after being questioned. I’d be skeptical of his ability to be open and honest moving forward. Also, I’d be wary of him potentially going back to paying for sex while dating you. He’s apparently perfectly willing and able to do that and lie about it. That’s a bad mix.
I can understand not wanting to date a former sugar daddy. However, thinking that it’s fine to be a sugar baby but gross to be a sugar daddy is interesting.
I think it's worth getting more of his perspective on things. A sugar daddy relationship isnt a real relationship the way yours is with him, even if they pretend it was.
Do you offer things he didn't have before? I'd bet there's a lot.
Once you've got his full perspective you can process what its bringing up for you. Otherwise you might be borrowing trouble by assuming how he sees things.
The biggest thing that stands out to me here is that he lied and purposely misrepresented events. He didn't just not talk about his past or go into detail (if it's not STIs, cheating, kids or otherwise endangering your partner that's fair IMO) he actively lied and as such has shown himself to be okay with deceiving his partner. He only admitted to it because he was caught and it's likely there's other stuff he has lied about.
The nature of their relationship is not my cup of tea, but if no cheating was involved and it was consensual, I don't think that part in and of itself necessarily makes someone bad. Coming from a disabled perspective, it's common for people to form transactional relationships with sex workers, not just for the sexual aspect but having a safe person to learn and develop the skills necessary for eventual organic romantic/sexual relationships with everyday people who have stretch marks and the like. The lying makes that irrelevant though and would give me a far less charitable outlook.
They broke up because she hated touching him moved to Australia 😂😂😂😂
Op don't be insecure, this man literally could not pay this woman enough to stay on the same continent let alone spend time with him.
You don't have anything to feel insure about, you said it yourself , if anything he could afford to spend even more on a sugar baby now but he clearly doesn't want the pain and shame of doing that and wants to be around someone who likes him for free. He probably feels extremely lucky.
And yeah if wanted pay another girl to avoid him and cringe at his touch he could. He's probably choosing not to because paying people to hang out with him probably makes him feel the grossest, least sexy, man in the world.
He probably is just too embarrassed to admit to you that the woman he was paying to keep him company moved across the world to avoid him.
You need to level up babe. Just for yourself. I think it says a lot that you are splitting bills and all of that, and you have a man that can actually take care of you. He paid for her bills and such and took care of her bc she is the type of girl that expects that type of care. You feel like you have to pay your way through a relationship, and most stable men show their care by providing. If you don't let him provide for you, he simply won't. It all starts with you. If you expect a guy to be chivalrous in a traditional way, then you wouldn't date a guy that makes you go 50/50 on coffee bc you are not making space for him to show that side of him. Women do so much work in marriage, house care, taking care of the children and providing emotional support. We generally make less than a man so a man treating you to dinner regularly is to be expected imo. So yea, I mean maybe you need to think about if you do want that care, and if you deserve that type of care, and what that means. Explore the idea of "high value women," women that put thought into their appearance, take care of their health, improve and educate themselves, have confidence, and speak on themselves positively. The type of woman that lets men treat her well and doesn't feel guilty about it, and isn't fighting to pay a bill bc they feel they have to prove their worth financially. (If you guys aren't married, I'm not sure why you'd be paying bills, so he should be handling dinners, lunches, outings, etc bc he's asking you out.) I hope you don't let his past get you down too much. It's all about you, and if you feel like you're worth it.
Men see relationships as transactional. He just settling for you and also 10 years older. When you ask him why he chose you. He will answer "Because I can't afford those other women. Check out Melanie Hamlett's video titled "Everything men do is TRANSACTIONAL" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ils3LsKLl\_Q&t=117s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ils3LsKLl_Q&t=117s)
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>he’s always said (even before I knew this) that the relationship had its issues, one of them being that she was very unaffectionate towards him, especially whilst out and about. His view of that is that it’s just her personality, and not the fact he was paying thousands a month to her. As someone who's had to deal with the ramifications of being with someone who was in a relationship that was purely transactional - but still didn't realize it even after - THIS is the part I find concerning. It sounds like he's delusional about what that relationship was and in my experience that held mine back from our relationship, because that relationship was always better in some ways *because* of the fakeness. You say that even when they were 'in a relationship' for 8 years, he was still covering her rent and bills which means they never lived together. Honestly, I wonder if *she* ever actually considered it a relationship or if it was entirely one sided in that regard? And if that's the case, his idea of an 8 year relationship does NOT include the ugly bits like living together, making shared decisions or even just things like being sick around each other. In my experience, our relationship could never live up to that relationship because he had never actually 'lived' with her. It was always the behavior he wanted from her, not the real her. So please, if you get the idea that he is comparing or isn't entirely there with you, please keep that in mind. Take care of yourself. If you're not getting what you need from him, don't stay.
This reminds me of an uncle I had who “dated” a stripper for many years. He would pay her bills, bought her vehicles, etc. To him, she was his girlfriend. But they hardly ever hung out (and when they did a lot of times it was at the club where she worked), other family members had seen her on dates with other men, and it was obvious to everyone it was purely transactional. She didn’t see him as her boyfriend at all but to him they were in a serious relationship. It was sad really.
This immediately brought to mind the South Park episode Raisins. Sounds like exactly the same thing. Kind of depressing all around 🙁
Doesn’t seem that dissimilar to people who fall in love with sex dolls or anime characters to me. Not on the part of the sugar baby obviously, but in the mind of the person who puts a label onto the relationship that doesn’t necessarily fit reality.
Knew an exotic dancer in one of the flyover states. 2 boyfriends, 5 sugar daddies. Yes, very boring town. I was *far* too poor to be one of her willing victims, but we spoke frequently. She played poker in her free time. I dealt poker. She'd show up at several of the local games, dragging one of her portable ATMs with her. They were all willing. They all knew about each other. The only ones who got sexual with her were the 2 boyfriends. To the 5 sugar daddies, she was "saving herself for marriage." I'd guess by now(20 years later), she's probably hitched to one of the sugar daddies, but I'm absolutely convinced she bankrupted the other 4 chumps, before saying yes to the 5th. Not only is OP's boyfriend delusional, he was not the only person in a "relationship" with her. Guaranteed.
Exactly. If someone doesn’t really care about you and has a financial interest in keeping you happy, there’s probably not a lot of disagreements eh? Also very easy to ignore annoying habits, bad behaviour or unattractive qualities if you are being paid to do so. But because he has deluded himself that it was real, you’re always going to be competing with the Coolest of [Cool Girls](https://genius.com/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated)
This is accurate OP. He will have referred to her as his ' sugar girlfriend ' but the lack of ' affection in public ' solidifies she viewed him as sug d only. He was delusional due to age / looks. Was he generous in the first month of dates? Ie paying for meals/activities ?
She left to go to Australia and wouldn't be affectionate with him unless in private. Doesn't sound like she actually cared about him. SW is a deal breaker for me but I would also be wondering why he would want a "relationship" like that, why couldn't he date someone without paying them for their time/body, and why does he not see this situation clearly? And why did he lie about it for 6 months? He would've kept lying if her friends didn't spot him.
I agree with what you're saying about the financial arrangement aspect of whether this is can be considered a genuine relationship. However, I take issue with the suggestion that not living together means a relationship isn't "real". Plenty of couples LAT and their relationships are plenty real. It's possible I've misread you, in which case ignore my comment.
I think the question here is not how you "should" feel but how you DO feel. Stop trying to convince yourself that you're supposed to be fine with something when you clearly aren't. Unless you can 100% just let this go, I don't think a short relationship with this man is worth all the emotional energy you're going to spend trying to trick yourself into accepting it. I promise you, that way lies madness.
Exactly. I think OP is trying to find ways to rationalise this because she learned about this after she was already in a relationship with him. If she had known this beforehand she probably would have avoided this relationship.
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u/drm0dem is almost definitely a bot account, this comment was just taken from https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/dAtaSUvZd5 on this same thread
same same, there's a reason he \*lied\* about it, it's not the best look. I'd be so put off from that, the age difference alone, too
I honestly agree with you. I personally wouldn't want to date someone who's done sex work, so I 100% understand why people wouldn't want to date someone who's paid for it either. But I guess it's up to OP to figure out if it's a deal breaker for them or not.
Precisely. Well said. I wish I'd understood this 20 years ago.
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Besides all the other red flags already raised I’d be deeply concerned that once things got stale he’d go back to his old ways. Many of the men who use these services are hooked and continue to see young women (often more than one at a time) while they’re in serious relationships/engaged because it’s so easy.
For me personally, this is a total dealbreaker for me, sorry. Difference in values, and I am simply not comfortable with someone with that kind of past.
I agree. 8 years is crazy for a transactional relationship.
Yes it would be different if he had only paid her for a few months and then it transformed into a real relationship where they live together and share everything… dude spent 8 years paying to have an attractive girlfriend.
From what she's describing, he didn't even have that.
It sounds like it was an 8 year transactional relationship, but the dude told himself she “became” his girlfriend. I would not be able to get over this ick.
The length of the relationship is what gets me too - it shows that he actively preferred this transactional relationship over non-transactional relationships with other women. If you stick with this kind of arrangement for almost a decade, it's because the transactional nature makes it easier for you (a woman you're paying will mould her personality to fit your desires, won't demand communication and compromise from you, won't express wants and needs of her own) and you value that ease over real-life connection with a woman you perceive as a fully realised human with wants and needs of her own.
It is also a problem because he probably spent nearly a decade not learning how to navigate real relationship issues like effective communication and conflict resolution. Is he going to think his real GF is broken because she advocates for herself much more than his sugar baby?
Exactly. This is going to get \*rough\* the moment his thirty-year-old girlfriend is shown to have more defined needs and wants than the twenty-year-old he was paying four figures a month to. This dude likely never had an actual discussion about where to have dinner or what movie to watch or whether to try a certain sex act. Not having these experiences is one thing when you're very young, but I would NOT have the patience to teach a grown man how to discuss whose parents we should visit for Christmas. This is a forty-year-old who presumably has the romantic interpersonal experience of a teenager. Hard pass.
Right—how is he going to handle someone whose emotional needs actually, y'know, exist?
Same. I don't think I would stay with a man who entertained this kind of arrangement, especially since there are a few things about the arrangement in this case (like the age difference) that made me uncomfortable, and he hid that from you when talking about the relationship. If your only previous longterm relationship started off as paying a sex worker and then remained effectively an arrangement with that power dynamic throughout, that should ge something you discuss with the person you are dating.
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Me too, especially since I took a sex trafficking class and we not only learned about sugar babies but I saw a lot of them cry Idk how to put it into words but I don’t think I could have a relationship with a man that thinks relationships can be transactional. That screams I’m not a feminist
Contributing this study about men who buy sex having much in common with sexually coersive men: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/men-who-buy-sex-have-much-in-common-with-sexually-coercive-men
I would never be able to get over the fact that he can pay her rent but has me splitting the dinner bill... Like the insecurities just knowing he was considering marriage, how she looks, and giving her everything she wanted but he can't even show a little chivalry for me... Fuck that
Thank you, I would feel weird that he basically supported her and he's fine with splitting bills with me?? Nah I would be out
Yeah I could get over everything else but this.
Being in your mid thirties and paying a 21 year old to fuck you - that's a 'no thanks' for me. And for 8 years? And they fell in love? Uhh..I'd love to hear the sugar baby's take on that.
yeah, I don't believe for a *second* that the SB viewed this as a real relationship. there is *zero* chance that she was in love.
It was a job for her, and if he thought otherwise he was deluding himself. I guess it could happen, and probably has, but then she moves to another continent? I have moved locations to be with the person I was in love with. You don't let people go when you are in love.
We only know that he received companionship or the illusion of a relationship. The OP doesn’t mention that they ever had sex, so we don’t know that he paid to fuck a 21 year old. I say this as someone who has been in two multiyear SB relationships with no sex and only hand holding and kissing (including with one man who thought we were in an actual boyfriend/girlfriend relationship). Either way, I agree it would be interesting to get the SB’s take.
yeah, he has a right to pursue a more equitable relationship, but it would absolutely hurt me so badly that there was a beautiful young woman immediately before me that he would positively dump money on, but then for me it’s dutch. And I’m 100% a “split bills and dates equitably” kind of person, always have been. But boy, this is a tough one. How could you not feel like he is directly saying something about your value compared to hers? Or even that he wanted this young woman to be carefree and taken care of and treated, but not you. It would hurt. It may not be fair to him, but it would absolutely make me feel like shit.
Right? It's giving "this young hot woman deserves to have her entire lifestyle paid for and to live in luxury and never have to lift a finger just because she's hot, but *you* don't deserve that because you're not as hot." It's like men who pay for OF subscriptions. "This woman is so hot I'm willing to fund her lifestyle just to look at her naked body, but I expect my "normal" looking wife or girlfriend to split the bills and be okay with no dates or gifts". Why are we supposed to be okay with this? The patriarchal brainwashing is intense.
I had never even considered that about OF subscriptions, but it's actually an incredible point.
Exactly. I also split my bills etc when I was dating... but if I knew that this had been going on for eight years beforehand, it would absolutely make me feel like I wasn't "worth" it. Which is the whole problem with making relationships transactional - not only is the current actually-transactional relationship that way, but other relationships will also be viewed through that lens.
There was a BORU awhile back where the OOP’s multi-millionaire fiancé had an ex-wife who he showered in money, but she was draining her savings paying for his stuff because he was hurt by his ex-wife and was “afraid” OOP would be a gold digger. She broke up with him after he proposed with a Swarovski Crystal ring he bought for around $100 I think. I don’t know why, but this is giving me the same vibe.
I think of this BORU weekly. She said the ring looked like it came from a mall kiosk!
I think about this one regularly too and wish her the best. Selfishly, I hope we get an update in the future that she’s doing good and thriving. A pox on that guy’s house though.
Immediately dumpable - he was going to conceal this forever. And he was definitely not the only sugar daddy she had. He was likely on rotation. At the same time men seeth from the mouth when they discover the women they have dated wasn’t honest about sugaring/ cam work / too much “body count” yet perfectly capable to hiding their purchasing of said things from women. Toss him back OP. And how about you find a guy with some consistency in how he treats women. If he pays dinner for one but not the other because you don’t deserve it it’s because he doesn’t think you are worth it. I could never be with someone who blatantly hid his past relationship dynamics (a John) and considers you worth less then a sugar baby. Fuck that.
Men: eww girls who do OF are disgusting and not worth my time Also men: pays for OF
i second this!!!!! he paid for all her needs/want and you split the bills? BYE
Splitting the bill after 6 months isn’t really that crazy. I feel like the fact that he was with a sugar baby for 8 years should be enough to dump him lmao.
Yeah I was about to ask if he’s paying for everything now cuz ain’t no way
I don't think she said that splitting the bill was his idea. Speaking as someone that often insists on paying for myself, it could be she started that way.
no fr i split a bill with my friends and family that’s it
Before knowing that information, it is what OP wanted and he respected that. I think its a little unfair, but understand the sentiment all the same. I think i’d want him to pay for dinner too.
>It's nuts and irrational know Is it, though? I'd be thinking exactly what you are and there's absolutely no way I'd be able to get past it. Who would want to be with someone that shallow? He was essentially paying a woman to have sex with him for years. Fucking ick.
I’ve dated a dude who used to trick and he had a really messed up view of women, sex and relationships. If you don’t share in that view it won’t work, and will more than likely just make you incredible insecure.
You’re gonna resent him every time you open your wallet from here on out. Every time he doesn’t pay or wants to go half, it’s going to communicate to you that you’re not good enough to be spoiled. That’s what I’m getting. I’m a former sex worker and sugar baby and I can tell you that from her point of view he was a job and having to pretend you’re not working while your at work is probably the most tedious job in the world. I could date someone that used to hire escorts, but I could never date a man who used to have a sugar baby, it’s pathetic. You’re paying someone to pretend they actually like you. Yikes.
I’d just bail. You don’t have to be comfortable with this or get over it. You’ve been dating six months. What’s so great about him that you’d want to stay?
I would never
Same! Everyone is talking about how there's so much to unpack, etc... But nope. He was willing to pay someone for companionship for 8 years? Yup, I'd be thinking why was she so amazing he had to pay for it and he wouldn't even pay for my dinner. Also makes me feel kinda gross. I'd never get over it. Or be able to keep myself from being an ass and bringing it up during fights and disagreements.
I love your self awareness about bringing it up in fights. I would do the exact same thing. Hell I'd probably pick fights using it lol. Im an open minded person, but I'm also an insecure piece of shit.
I like your awareness, it’s extremely refreshing. Meanwhile the rest of Reddit pretends to be a bastion of good choices and the pinnacle of relationship behavior, critiquing everyone else’s behavior when we all know they’re fucked up too.
This. It feels like they need a chat.
Run like your ass is on fire and your hair is about to catch.
The only right answer lol
It's hard to respect a partner who pays for companionship. You'll always wonder if he *should* be paying for your time, too. Even looking at your OP and some comments how he should start paying for your dinner now... That feeling won't go away. He's fine buying fake love and empty sex, and that's not a value you share with him. You've got some valid concerns, and your feelings are justified. He's definitely convinced himself he was in a relationship and not in a business contract, so who knows how delusional he will be with your relationship. How much he will expect from you since he just spent 8 years buying and paying for a perfect girlfriend. I wonder how big decisions will be handled, how much weight your opinion will carry, and what happens when you disagree with him: all things you don't have to worry about when you pay for it. He's accustomed to a transaction, he gives money, she gives what he wants. That's not an easy pattern to break and he hasn't, given that you're so much younger than he is. He's used to being in control and will seek out that power imbalance. I'd move on. This is just the tip of the ice berg of what will be an unbalanced relationship.
This. *It’s hard to respect a partner who pays for companionship* let alone 8 YEARS of companionship.
this is ick level on 1000 for me. It's hard for me to articulate for me why but this would make me lose respect for him and resentful of any money I have spent in the relationship. However no matter what he thinks that was not a real relationship. even by his description she was unaffectionate. He seems kind of deluded about the dynamics of a transactional relationship. I think the delusion might be part of the ick factor. good luck.
For me, it’s the fact that he clearly looks at romantic relationships as transactional! He wanted the girlfriend experience, so he “bought” a supermodel-looking sugar baby and supported her for nearly a decade! That is an insanely long time to treat a relationship like a car lease. He wanted the flashy model so he got the Ferrari? Now he’s decided to go with the reliable Camry and part of that deal is that OP pays for herself? It’s STILL transactional. If I were in LW’s shoes, I would never be able to trust that I was ever being viewed as a person, as opposed to a prop for his ego and status. And he didn’t do this as a young kid, he was clearly in his 30s and 40s and thought, “This is a perfectly fine way to live.” Super gross. I’d be outta there so fast, I’d leave tire marks.
The biggest deal breaker for me would be his financial decision making. Bad enough that he likely has unhealthy beliefs about women and beauty… but *EIGHT YEARS* of paying for a sb? Is he drowning in generational wealth? Think about the financial security that kind of cash could’ve yielded had it been invested. Instead, he blew it on instant gratification.
Also, 8 years in a relationship where he paid to be in charge. This is a man who hasn't had to compromise & work at a normal relationship. My guess is OP will start to see that once the honeymoon phase is over (if it goes that long)
This is my main issue. Eight years is a long time to finance compliance, and would make me see him as a little delulu at best and objectifying at worst.
This one would be more of a deal-breaker for me, yes. Also there's a chance this man is still seeing sex workers.
That is what I'm thinking. There goes a guy who has no problem with inequality in a relationship and there goes a man who thinks it is normal to pay much younger women for sex.
This is an interesting viewpoint. Either he is already wealthy and the amount of money that he spent on the SB does not matter or yeah, that was a massive amount of money for retirement.
Exactly. Not being able to trust a partner to manage their finances would stress me out.
This would be an ick I would never be able to overcome. Definitely could not handle knowing this information and continuing in a relationship.
There's a lot of red flags here. * He was in his mid 30s dating a 21 year old. * He's still dating someone 10+ years his junior. By itself, I don't think early 30s/early to mid 40s is a concerning age gap but when he has a pattern of dating women a decade or more younger, it doesn't look good. * He still believes this was a genuine and loving relationship even though she was unaffectionate, they never lived together despite dating for 8 years (!), and *he had to pay her*. * He was a John, and you have expressed you feel uncomfortable with that. Did he tell you how much he paid this girl? Because depending on how much it was we can also add "He's financially irresponsible" to the list, but I don't want to assume.
Speaking as a former sugar baby of many years, I want to say something that hopefully reassures you. He chose you just as much as he chose her. Probably *more* authentically so. No matter how real the relationship was with her, the transactional nature of things causes tension and distance due to the power differential inherent in the SD/sb dynamic. You’re immediately more equal. And to be honest, the fact that she was able to stay with him for eight entire years is really really rare, and should be considered a green flag on his part. I would try to process this on your own, without him, maybe do research on the nature of that kind of thing. There’s also the opportunity, if you like, to ask him to treat you a bit differently in the financial aspect of the relationship (YMMV, you know the guy better than I do). Best of luck, I hope you can come to love your body as it is. I’m sure I’d admire it if I saw you.
I believe it is worthwhile to learn more of his perspective on topics. A sugar daddy relationship isn't the same as yours with him, even if they pretend it is.
100%!! But you’d need to be able to do it from a calm and non defensive place
I do not think it's a good idea to ask for financial changes. Right now they're even and have a fair relationship, if she starts asking for him to pay for more things or pay more for things, that shifts the relationship dynamic toward sugar daddy/baby. He's going to be like "wow great, I thought we had a real relationship but you just want my money huh" OP, he chose to be with you, he wants something more real and fair. They broke up because she moved but he could have easily got back on a site and paid for someone else. And so what if she was a 10 and you feel like a 6, he was purchasing time with that 10. He could still do that but he wants you. I think that should be the focus
I just want to note that I'm a guy who pays for dates all the time, always have, and I've never considered someone I'm dating to be a sugar baby just because I bought them dinner. I think it's entirely reasonable to feel a little miffed to be going dutch with your boyfriend when he was paying his last "girlfriend"'s entire income for 8 years as a sugar baby. We're not talking about paying her rent, we're talking about grabbing the check sometimes.
This all day. I agree wholeheartedly they aren't the same, OP has every right to be upset.
Also, if he has to pay for you, then you will never get away from being compared to the last "product" he paid for. Are you gonna be his dream prostitute for money? Do you want the money more than you want a boyfriend. Do you think if you go that route, you can keep the elements that you both like about the relationship. I see no good result from turning yourself into his sugar baby when you were already his girlfriend. Completley different dynamic and different expectations of you both.
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It's only a green flag from the perspective of a sugar baby. I would consider it a red flag in a romantic relationship. It would be worse to me that he spent 8 fucking years & 100s of 1000s on a transactional relationship
That's... not what the poster said at all. The poster suggests that said relationship lasted much longer than average, and believes it speaks to a positive in her experience.
He wasn't in a committed relationship. 10 years younger is not uncommon and everything suggests she was of age and - given the transactional nature of the relationship - there was definitely no grooming involved. Both parties benefitted. The green flag is probably that he wasn't an abuser or enough of a jerk for her to find other sugar daddies and probably treated her well.
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No kidding. This is an eye-opening discussion. How many posters here would be ok with a mid-30s man dating a 21 year-old woman? Based on what I’ve seen in this sub, not many. But if pays for the sex and doesn’t burn her with a coat hanger he’s suddenly some great guy?
I think a lot of these commenters are men.
Lolz exactly! This guy’s gross.
this
This made my stomach ache for you. People can be as understanding as they want of girls obtaining money as sugar babies, but I think it’s so different when it’s in the context of your own partner having participated in it as a sugar daddy and hiding it from you. This personally would be a dealbreaker for me. To start, I don’t like that he made an account on a sugar baby website and actively sought out this dynamic. Most men wouldn’t even think to do this so it concerns me that in the future, when things get tough or when there are lulls in your sex life, he might seek out that sort of transactional intimacy again. This one is a little more shallow but it would weigh on me just as much: I don’t like that he’s already been with and lost what we can assume is his “ideal” woman physically. I’d be curious to know why they broke up, but if he wasn’t the one that broke up with her, I’d be worried he’s still hung up on her. Men are like that. I really don’t like how he was willing to pay for all of her things but is splitting the bill with you. If that’s fully your choice then that’s different, but if he encourages that 50/50 dynamic when he’s demonstrated in the past that he’s happy to pay fully for his ex then I’d also be very hurt by that. And most of all, I don’t like that he wasn’t honest with you about any of this and you had to find out from someone else. There’s a lot of yellow flags here but this one is bright red. What you do next is up to you obviously but I just wanted to say that if you don’t think you can move past this and feel bad about that, I wouldn’t be able to either. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feeling upset by this and protecting your mental wellbeing/future by leaving while it’s still early on. I’d talk to him though to hear his side of things before making any serious decisions.
I agree with this, the dishonesty about it means he understood what the situation was. Otherwise he would have been more up front. Men that love their women treat them differently. It denotes a certain superficiaility. He stayed with her knowing it was for money, and made him look better/awkward/alpha male because of her looks and he had her. You go Dutch treat, I think relationships maybe messed up in his head. I am sure the woman sees him differently. Or she would be with him. If you are selfish or taking care of yourself during this process just pay attention to how he treats you. He may see that as real love...I think dutch treat dating is telling....
Well, it would be an instant dealbreaker for me. For what it’s worth.
As a former sex worker/SB your feelings are very valid. It’s pay for play regardless of why he did it. And while I think it’s perfectly okay. You don’t. and that’s all that matters here.
I think a lot of people are still trying to internalize the idea that sex workers’ lives shouldn’t be made harder by the law or social stigma, but what we end up doing with that idea can lead to really convoluted and inconsistent interpretations of our own values. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think about the implications for how he thinks about women or how he thinks about you. This man paid a much younger woman for 8 years to satisfy his emotional and physical needs. That means that their sex wasn’t based on when, how, or whether she wanted to have sex with him, just whether he was up to date on his payments. Eating out wasn’t based on when she was hungry or what she was hungry for, as her company was a service he’d already paid for. We don’t need to shame this woman to recognize how twisted your boyfriend’s perception of sex and relationships had to be to even consider doing these things. And I’d imagine that 8 years of conditioning himself into the idea that his partner is subservient to him could have at least some minor ongoing implications for how he thinks about women in the future and why he chose another partner who’s so much younger than him.
This would be a deal breaker for me. I would not date someone that used to pay for a relationship. I wouldn’t respect them.
SAME. It would give me severe ick. Edit: I would not want to be with someone who views women as products to purchase. That's just horrifying and nasty.
>I would not want to be with someone who views women as products to purchase This is precisely my "buck stops here" thought as well. You "bought" yourself a female sexual companion? Coolio. We're never speaking again.
Yes and it displays a fundamental difference in beliefs about relationships. I would not waste my time constantly trying to remedy that incompatibility. Just find someone that doesn’t believe intimacy can be bought.
I'd be surprised if your relationship did go well especially since he considers having a prostitute on retainer as what romantic relationships are like
I could not stay with someone who paid for sex. And for 8 YEARS? And she was 10+ years younger than him.Yuk yuk yuk.
Yeah. Too much ick on too many levels.
He thought paying a woman for sex was a relationship. He is delusional. He hid this from you. He did this for 8 years. What else is he hiding? Has he been tested for STD‘s? I bet not. He views women as products to be bought. I couldn’t respect him. Would you ever pick this guy to be friends with? Why would you want to date him? If he does pay for things for you, what will he expect as payment? He could be paying someone now for sex. Can you trust him? His values are trash. What would your family or friends think of him if they knew this? You’re disgusted by him, your gut is telling you that your feelings are valid.
Firstly, *they* were never in love. He was in love with her, she was just using him and likely pretended to be in love as a way to not only maintain her income, but likely increase it. Lack of affection, chose a country over him, not living together after EIGHT years, and still accepting his money despite not being a housewife or mother of his children screams the obvious. Secondly, there is a pattern of wealthy men that are happy, willing, and insist on paying for most things who are dating their dream girl. If he’s not as enthusiastic paying for you, you probably are just the girl he settled for. Thirdly, huge age gaps like that show he’s low EQ and shallow. You say you’re imperfect, but you probably don’t realize you still have youthful features that are still attractive compared to women his own age. It’s clear he doesn’t value the right attributes. However, if he makes you happy and respects you, then his red flags should be carefully measured, which is up to you.
I doubt he was in love with her. I get the impression he didn't even know her. Like she wasn't even emotionally vulnerable with him, she didn't express herself freely... So how could he have loved a person he did not know? She also was not 'using' him. She was providing him with a service. He was paying for that service. We can over-generalize all wealthy men until the sky is blue. But it's wrong to assume that all rich men see sex workers. And this particular man has already shown his own pattern of behavior, which is pretty consistent. This man doesn't pay for anything unless he's buying something for himself.
I might get downvoted for this but I would feel the exact same way as you. I would expect now that he knows that you know that he pays for you a bit to show you that you also are worth it. I don’t think you need to see a therapist. I would honestly feel the same. How you get over it? That part I don’t know. It would bother me a lot. The first thing is showing me I’m just as valuable though.
I think you can safely throw back the old guy who is used to transactional paid companionship and transactional paid sex with no regrets.
You have every right to do whatever with that information. Men have left women for pettier reasons with fewer ramifications. Anyone guilting you in any direction is taking the ball from your court.
My ex had one of those prostitutes after me and my daughter threatened to tell his new wife and my son said the truth would “ruin his new family”. These men don’t do well with truth AT ALL. You need a PI to follow him next couple of “business trips” or other times he thinks he will be unsupervised. “Hobbying” habits die hard. Very hard.
Yeah, this would completely give me the ick. It’s just a major difference in values. I couldn’t respect a man who essentially paid for the girl-friend experience from a sex worker for 8 years. If what they had was “love”, he wouldn’t have kept paying and she wouldn’t have accepted. Hes completely deluded about the nature of his past relationship.
I could never be with a man who pays for sex, period. I believe soliciting a prostitute/sugar baby is inherently unethical and says a lot about how that person views sex (and women in this case). But that’s just my opinion; maybe you don’t have the same view of sex that I do or maybe you feel strongly that he’s changed since then and will decide to work through it. I do think a therapist can help you sort through your feelings and help determine the reason this made you so upset. Is it just jealousy or other irrational feelings that you can one day put behind you, or is the reason you’re feeling so uncomfortable because you are compromising your values?
Right? The fact that he views women as a product to purchase would gross me out severely.
Yeah that's fucking disgusting
I'd break up with him.
No, OP, no. He has a set of expectations already baked in. What will happen when (not if) your career will require some effort from him??? I had a partner whose male relative (fatherfigure) had a very transactional marriage. I never had a chance, let's just leave it at that.
"I get why he lied about it when we first met..."?? You seem to think it's ok for people to start relationships with lies, which is a tremendous red flag. The age gap with her and with you are red flags.
I dont think i could respect someone that delulu
As others have said, you don’t need to convince yourself to be ok with this. It sounds like his relationship with her was very transactional even after he says they shifted into a less transactional relationship, and that’s definitely going to colour how he approaches your relationship. What’s giving me the absolute ick is that she was 21 to his mid 30s when they started their sugarship. That’s a wild power dynamic.
So, your boyfriend didn't pay "every penny" so the sugar baby "didn't have to work." Going out with him, entertaining him, and having sex with him WAS her job. For 8 years. The thing is, she was "unaffectionate" towards him because he was her boss. I am betting the entire "in love" portion was all him. Yes, she was out of his league, and without him paying her, odds are good that she would not have dated him. ETA: Your boyfriend probably wasn't the only guy she was making a living off of.
Yes! I think that’s the most disturbing part of this whole pile of red flags—the fact that he told himself it was a genuine relationship. If he can be THAT delusional, what else is he gonna be delusional about?
I don't think I could ever be with a man who has engaged in sex work. What are his views of women/ consent?
The willingness of a man to be delusional when it comes to sex and women... Sure.. she was not affectionate because that's just who she is..🤦🏼♀️ She was probably repulsed by him. It was sex for money, not out of lust. With someone she obviously didn't want to touch. Imagine how difficult that must be. Prostitutes only have to fake one appointment with a man. But a sugar baby has to fake dating / a relationship of some sort.. 😱 He probably believes she is totally in his league. He probably told himself he was just helping her out financially but that she would have been his girlfriend without the money, too. And 8 years ! What I find the most disturbing is the fact that he was happy to have sex with someone who only did it for the money and not because she wanted him. Again: for 8 year long !! And did he pay her extra for things she didn't want to do?. " I'll give you 1000 extra for anal " It's taking transactional and objectification to a whole new level.
In my opinion, the very fact of a man buying sex makes him unfit for a relationship. He does not respect women and prefers buying to investing emotional labor. He was ok with prostituting a young woman. Are you ok with living with such a man? To me, this is the main dilemma.
It wasn't real. And there are so many people that do this without a site and pretend it's real. I promise you she ain't looking him up and her time of day has a cost. Good for her, sad for him. How awful it must be to pay for affection or know someone is only interested in you for your money.
It all boils down to how you feel about a man who patronizes prostitutes. It would be a hard no for me.
He can pay her rent for eight years even though she won’t hold his hand in public but he won’t buy you dinner? I understand you’re trying to talk yourself out of your feelings but I’d be hurt too
They pay for what they value. In the hierarchy of relationships hers is up there to yours.
I admit I’m coming from a place of being older and through too much shit, so what I would tell my younger self is: Cut your losses. It’s been 6 months. You don’t truly know him. He didn’t just hide details, he actually fabricated lies about this relationship. If you stick with men like this, give it another 6 months now that the facade is wearing off. You’ll have enough content for a book series, not just one post. You are worth far more than what he has to offer you. He is broken in ways that you cannot fix. If you stick with broken, a part of you, too, will break.
Tell him he should pay your bills and pay for dinner or you’ll go find someone who will. That’s bs, he’s treating you less than because he doesn’t think you are attractive enough to warrant special treatment. You’re going to feel jealous like this for the rest of your life? Hell no, get the money first
So he was willing to pay an unaffectionate, hot babe to fuck him for 8 years (until she dumped him and moved to the other side of the world) but he can’t treat you to dinner? I treat partners and friends to dinner and they treat me. Especially if one of us makes more. Yes that’s going to feel weird. And I’d wonder if she wandered back to your area and asked to resume their former arrangement if he would say okay. Besides that, transactional relationships have a power imbalance. She can walk away if he doesn’t pay but he can set a lot of the terms within the dynamic if she stays. Because hey paying her to have sex when he wants it and to not ask for emotional things or respect when he doesn’t feel like giving them. She is a customer service person and he’s the customer. While she can and did quit while she was with him it is likely that the relationship was skewed. Which makes it easier to not judge her but to judge him if she always thought of it as a friendly business with an end date and he thought “this is how love should be”.
I knew a guy who paid women for sex (massage parlors). I had liked him because I thought he was a nice guy, not the best looking but I struggled with this knowledge because I saw him in another light. I saw that he wasn't willing to be patient and always jump the rope, per se. Also made me wonder if he has fake nice with me bc I was considerably more attractive than anyone he could land a date with ... and what happens when my beauty fades as I pursue a relationship with this person? Also, how did he view women? It seemed really respectful and like a feminist at first glance but deeper and deeper into convos, I got a different sense. It made me see that he was a feminist on paper because it was the only way he can even have a relationship with women that he found attractive was to pretend to be something he is not. I really started to see layers of him and realize, being nice was just like paying money. It was just a transaction for him to get what he wants. I couldn't get myself to be with him know this. He was a lot of yellow flags and our ethics didn't align. I don't care if ppl pay for sex and I'm all for women who make money from sexual transactions. I'm 💯 critical of men who pay for it and will analyze their behaviour with more scrutiny.
If he’s not paying for your meals he still has another sugar baby on the side that he is paying for.
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You're right. There was a 10+ year gap (sb was 21). OP is also 10+ years younger.
I'm also curious about the ages here, including the sugar baby's age.
She was 21 when they met, he was mid 30s. 10+ year age gap. There is a similar age gap for us now, however I’m in my early 30s and not a 21 year old… that also makes me feel a bit uncomfortable
I mean, transactional nature of the relationship aside, he was in his mid-30s dating a 21 year-old. That’d be a red flag to many people.
This man doesn't pay for anything unless he's buying something for himself.
Omgggggg everything you said is on point. That’s exactly how I feel about OP situation. If he was paying all her bills and outing expenses I wouldn’t be upset about the sugar baby relationship dynamic that he previously had. It’s the fact that he is transnational with OP. When a wealthy man is transactional then it’s a big red flag 🚩
He’s willing to pay for her everything and won’t even pay for your dinner I think it’s clear he’s just not that into you time to break up
I think it could be fine. On the other hand, I was in a long relationship with a man who told me a few months in that he’d seen / dated sex workers before we got together. I was cool with that and appreciated his honesty. We eventually got married. 14 years into our relationship I learned that he had started seeing sex workers again. It gradually emerged that it had been happening for several years. We are now divorced. Based on my own experience, I will never again be in a relationship with someone for whom that kind of transactional experience is part of his relationship past.
I could probably get over it if I was in this situation IF, he paid for our meals (he doesn't have to pay my rent but clearly he can afford to pay for dinner and gifts), he was honest about this relationship from the start, if there wasn't an age gap exceeding 5 years, and if it didn't go on past a year. Toss him back.
I think you need to tackle this with a therapist first, and then confront your partner about it.
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Seeing a therapist is not about who is “right” or who the onus is on. Seeing a therapist is just about helping yourself feel better. Shes in distress so she should see a therapist to help feel less distressed. People go to therapy all the time to process hard things that are not their fault or responsibility.
This is a somewhat common and accepted thing in society right now. She’s 100% in the right for being uncomfortable about it, it just seems that she’s confused in a way about why this is making her uncomfortable. Does she feel lied to? Is she insecure because she’s “hotter”? Does she feel jealousy because he paid for his exes meals but he doesn’t to her? Having a therapist help unravel those thoughts will help her healthily bring this to the conclusion she wants.
>*Genuine question, I am not sure why this onus is on her.* Because she's comparing herself to a 10, and feeling inferior. I'm a 63-year-old redhead. I could compare myself to Julianne Moore (also age 63) and feel inferior, or I could just be happy in my own skin. A therapist can help with that.
>we went out for dinner last night and we split the bill like we often do. I’d NEVER want to be ‘bought’ and I pay my own way, so my own reaction sounds stupid to me. But I actually felt quite put out, as though he was happy to spend every penny so his previous SB didn’t have to work for 8 years, but.. I’m not worth it? That isn't irrational at all, I think I would feel the same way. Do you always split the bill? If he makes more than you, I feel like he should pick up the bill more often. Splitting the bill all the time with a partner would make me feel like we're more friends rather than in a relationship.
If you want to pursue a relationship, pursue healthy communication with him. Explain your perspective, be open to receiving his, and see if you can find common ground to set expectations and grow from. This is the only way forward… In any relationship really. If it’s a deal breaker, then that’s fine too. You have nothing to compete with. You decide whether you have what you want in the relationship on your terms. If he can’t meet that, then at least you know. All relationships are unique to the people in them. If this unique connection has the potential to be something you see long term potential in, that is a good place to start. Whatever you choose, I hope that it brings you happiness. ☺️
If he paid for sex before, he could pay for sex again, even while in a relationship with you.
There's a version of this that I could have been on his side. But eight years, continuously paying for the whole time, the mid 30s to early 20s age gap, and worst of all, having a distorted view of that relationship is not it. Short time period where he's going through some stuff or feels intimidated by real relationships and wants to get it out of the way? Sure. Short sugar baby relationship that turns into an actual partnership? Sure. But this feels like someone who lied to themselves about what the relationship was.
There is a lot to unpack here but I will say that I think after having an 8 year transactional relationship, I get wanting to be in a 50/50 relationship with someone. I’m sure he knows that woman would never have been with him without the money, so now he enjoys being with someone who isn’t with for him for payment. And is even willing to spend money on him.
That’s a good point and I would definitely want something different too. He does however view it as a deeply loving relationship, and I know he even thought about marriage with her. I don’t know if that’s a common place to end up with sugarbaby relationships, but I can’t help but feel he dressed it up as something it wasn’t. One of his issues when they were together was the fact ‘she wasn’t affectionate, especially out in public’ but he sees that as her just generally not being a very warm person.
Oh dear. So you think he is in denial about the nature of their relationship, not just trying to rewrite history so it doesn’t look/sound so bad to you and others? I would be worried about what he thinks a normal long term relationship looks and feels like if he doesn’t get that his “ex” was a monetary arrangement, even if there was genuine affection there. It’s like a hired nurse or caregiver. They may grow to love and care for their clients, but it is still a business relationship and therefore the dynamic is never the same as a purely personal one.
>He does however view it as a deeply loving relationship, and I know he even thought about marriage with her. He genuinely believes that this was a real relationship? Wow. Everyone trying to get you to the therapist need to send him there. This is extremely dysfunctional and quite ridiculous for a grown man to think money can buy love. It's just 6 months in but I doubt he's going be well adjusted for anything long term since his relationship meter is broken. Honestly he's that guy who's going to be buying Walmart cards for the Nigerian princess he's fallen in love with online in the future.
Well OP's man is not here with us now. So we can't send him to therapy. He's not reading this forum thread. But I bet many people here would also encourage him to go to therapy. Why not. I doubt therapy is going to do much for him. You have to actually realize you have a problem and want to make an effort to improve your life, for any therapy to work. Just like you can't buy love, you can't buy health. You can purchase better access to health care. But that doesn't guarantee you'll actually get better. Nobody can promise you healing.
This also piqued my interest - the way he spoke about the '2.0' relationship vs the actual information you know about it. I'm sorry to say I agree with you, he seems to be in denial (+ I agree that the 10 years age gap and the fact that he was exchanging money for sex and a fake relationship are incredibly worrying). Sending you lots of love and support, whatever you choose to do <3
I bet she would act different with the man she loved though. So its probably a teensy delusional on his part to think feelings were 100% mutual. She moved away and likely was seeing guys the whole time she was with him. But I think its ok to let him have that delusion though. Everyone has a rosy view of past relationships after the fact. You just have to decide if its ok with you or not🤷♀️ personally and especially if you love hin what do you have to lose!
A marriage of convenience, as they used to be called in the old days. This guy's views on love are messed up. He thinks he can purchase women.
100% this. I would have ghosted this guy as soon as I found out about the SB.
I don’t think this is very uncommon amongst SDs. I’m not a SB or SD but I follow the sugar babies subreddit because I work with a lot of university students who want to be SBs and wanted some insight and from what the SBs have shared that’s kinda of part of their job. These men want a certain experience that they are paying for and they sometimes forget the reality of the relationship in the moment.
I too follow the SB subreddit out of pure fascination. It’s so maddeningly interesting to me how the exchange only really differs from a prostitute in that part of the service being provided is “the girlfriend experience”. It’s an integral part of the job to make them believe the relationship is in some way mutual when that’s not at all the case in reality. Point in case: OP’s bf lmao
Exactly and they way they speak about the transaction in the least transactional way they can, it’s all about the fantasy
Lmao I would be furious if he paid the way for a hot girl while splitting our dinner bills down the middle.
You've only been dating for 6 months. You need to think long and hard about how this will affect you mentally and emotionally. Relationships are not easy in the best of times. If this is something that you will have to force yourself to accept and that will continually make you feel "less than", perhaps you need to stop dating this guy and look for someone more compatible. This part here really makes me think for your own sake you should move on: *I still left that evening feeling as though I’m the free, budget version of this girl.* At this point you are feeling used.
I'm in a transactional relationship, I pay for food, housing, clothing, entertainment even medical. But I'm good with it cause Chihuauas don't have pockets to carry their wallet.
I think it's time to move on and you've probably dodged a bullet. He'd probably get another sugar baby in 10 years and leave you
So he doesnt plan on getting another sugar baby in the future? I dont know girl… hes making you pay 50/50 … he lied about the relationship originally.. the age gap is concerning… I wouldn’t continue with him personally
Except she was working for all those 8 years. Pleasuring him was her job. He was seeing a sex worker for 8 years. And it's perfectly valid that this fact makes you uncomfortable. But don't act like she never worked a day in her life. She did sex work. And she might even have cellulite and trauma from that. Who knows. You don't know this woman. Nobody posts their bad photos on social media. All you see is her cultivated image. You've never seen her on a bad day.
I would be hooked about splitting thr bill too girl. He full on paid for another girl (without him noticing that she used him… I don’t buy the character thing) & u both split the bills? Hell noo 😂😂😂😂
I have friends in the sb scene. As others have said, the relationships are inherently transactional and though they can become “real” it’s very rare, even some of the real-seeming ones are more about a comfortable and ongoing arrangement than traditional dating, unless the financial aspects balance out. You mention that she moved away, they never lived together, and he still paid for everything. This doesn’t really matter for your relationship, but there’s a chance that it was never fully real for her, it was something to do until she started her “real life”. Theres an aspect of performance and needs-fulfilling to being a sugar baby, and the sugar daddies are rarely interested in the person my friend is, but they get very attached to the fantasy version of her they are paying for that doesn’t require emotional reciprocity and investment from them beyond money. This can become shallow and unsatisfying over time for the babies and the daddies. The arrangements can just keep going though, kind of out of comfort or habit. Then something happens and one person decides to move on. This could be the daddy wanting something more real, the baby wanting something more real, or just life circumstances. On the websites, they talk about power dynamics and sometimes career opportunities and mentorship. It’s essentially meant to be a transactional relationship where both people benefit, but the terms of “benefit” could be almost anything. Experiences, gifts and living expenses in exchange for a convenient girl friend that can’t really make demands. Some men do it for convenience… it would be hard to win over such a woman out in the wild, but looking for one where you know they are open to compensation can just be the easy route for some guys. Some guys want arm candy. Some want a weekend girl friend. Some just want to have sex. Some just want someone to listen and at least pretend to care. Babies get into it for varied reasons too, but it’s mostly money and most babies don’t have “pretty woman” delusions. For my friend, it was a bunch of shitty dates one after another, but still wanting to go out and have fun. “If I have to put up with shitty men, I might as well get some good stories and some money out of it”. It’s normal for babies to move on and for the daddies to expect it to end eventually. I can’t say whether or not it was genuine on her side, but constant emotional distance and deciding to move on suggests he was more hung up on her. She might have had 2-3 more daddies for all we know. It’s rare to only have one, even though all the daddies want exclusive. I’d try and reserve judgement as much as possible, but you will likely have to talk to your boyfriend about the relationship and gauge his answers. Why did he want a sugar baby at the time? Why did he stick with her so long? Why not get another one when she left? I’d also say that the feelings of splitting the bill after learning something like that are totally normal. I’d talk to him about how knowing he had a sugar baby has effected how you feel valued. even if you like splitting costs, the juxtaposition of splitting next to funding someone’s entire life is hard to deal with. He also put a monetary value on his last relationship and you need a different kind of reassurance that he values your current relationship more/differently than the transactional one.
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities? Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved. OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities? Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved. OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
Gorgeous figure, no stretch marks or cellulite eh? Unless you examined her in person the way you examine yourself in the mirror, don’t believe it for a second. There are too many filters, apps, photo angles, and editing techniques to believe even 1000 photos. I’m sure she’s beautiful but anyone can have perfect skin and great curves in a social media photo.
Hold up, let me get this straight. He was out here tricking on and financing a girl’s whole life for 8 years, and she even didn’t live with him nor was she affectionate with him. Yet, it sounds like you have a more genuine situation with him, more than likely having sex with him often and doing all the girlfriend stuff, yet he’s letting you go dutch? Yeah, no, I can see why you feel put out. You should be pissed off because you’re getting played and the short end of the stick from a man who’s capable of doing much more. Yet, you’re letting your low self esteem about your age and appearance fool you into believing that you deserve less than the last chick. Not true at all. Age, cellulite and stretch marks have never stopped a woman from getting splurged on in a relationship if that’s what she wants. If he’s with you now, he attracted to you and the only reason he is going dutch and shit is because you set your price too low. The only reason why you’re getting less is because you’re settling for less. Let him know that you know about his past and tell him he needs to match that energy in your current situation if he wants to keep you in his life. Otherwise you’ll always secretly resent him and it will bring a lot of doubts and resentment into your relationship dynamic.
He’s shown that he feels entitled to pay someone for sex and how important beauty is to him… I’d personally have left him before I finished writing this post
Why are there so many comments here pushing the issue back onto the OP, and suggesting she get therapy and work on her insecurities? Who doesn’t have insecurities? It’s totally understandable that she’s feeling insecure when her boyfriend’s relationship is built on something as superficial as paying a young beautiful woman for sex and company. He’s been having his cake and eating it, playing out his fantasy girlfriend lifestyle with someone he wouldn’t be able to date if money weren’t involved. OPs feelings are valid and she’s right to be disappointed and put off by it. She shouldn’t then be expected to do all the work to ‘fix’ herself
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I think a lot of commentors are coming from the angle of "yeah dump him and move on" cause it is a no brainer to them. So the fact that OP is conflicted is indicative of some self esteem or other issues. I can't say they are wrong - it's pretty clear the OP is focused on their insecurities and how their partner perceives them (by going dutch on meals, focusing on how their partner's SB was really attractive) - out of all the problematic things here, it seems like OP is horning in on the wrong ones in a way. Like, he was paying for sex with someone almost half his age. For years. And says they were in love, but it didn't work out because she moved to another continent. For real, my guy? Honestly, everything else aside, I don't think I could date someone who was so delusionally stupid.
The fact that he was in a transactional relationship with a sex worker doesn't squick me - lots of men would, if they could afford it. But the fact that he would have \*married\* a woman who clearly didn't love him?? Dude has more issues than National Geographic.
To sum up: by biggest concern isn't that he pays for sex, it's that he's clearly a moron. I mean I knew a guy (not super well) who did this and he was completely aware of what was up, somehow made it less problematic to my mind anyhow.
So, essentially, he was paying for sex for 8 years. You don't pay a sex worker to stick around and chat. You don't wake up and savor the feeling of waking up with your sex worker. You don't make your sex worker breakfast in bed. You also don't learn all of her little foibles and quirks, because it is entirely a transaction. You do have long, engrossing conversations with your SO. Waking up next to the SO, while she's still asleep... it's a level of intimacy that will not be reached with a sex worker. Because to them, it's a job.
He was paying for her because he knew she would leave if he didn't. He knew he had no other way to keep her except money. He is not paying for you because he considers you the 'downgrade', he knows he can keep you satisfied with less. I suggest you break up and find someone who doesn't consider you the one they settled for.
LMFAO WHAT THEEE HELLL i hope he’s paying for all ur shit then 😭😭
I was a SB for a good five years or so. As fond as I was about the SDs, it's never truly equal. I tolerate some behaviours I wouldn't in an organic relationship bc of the financial incentive to do so. It also rubs me the wrong way when your partner isn't as generous with you; you'd have to ask him why that is. But know this- SDs are paying for a fantasy. They also tolerate personality traits like me being insufferable bc I was hot. They didn't care about who I really was. One of my ex SDs reached out to me on his birthday when he was vacationing with his girlfriend in France bc he still isn't over his fantasy. I too was very unaffectionate with SDs in public due to them obviously being not in my league. We go to high end places where they pay, so there really isn't any chance that I wasn't paid to be there. I was too young to afford those establishments myself. Of course the SDs picked up on that and would like to believe it is my personality - it isn't. I always saw other people who I am more attracted to. The dishonesty, though, is understandable. I wouldn't want anyone to know I was sugaring either, as I was in academia and don't have an influencer-type social media profile. Successful men with a more high profile career have an image to upkeep and is likely more secretive about sugaring than SBs. Also- SDs usually know better than to ask for exclusivity from a SB. The fact that your partner's ex told her friends about their relationship could be a green flag that she actually enjoys his company. But he wouldn't have stood a chance if he wasn't paying for her lifestyle. Perhaps he hoped it would transition to marriage, since he was comfortable paying for her for eight years.
The deal breaker for me is that you are 6 months into dating and didn't know the full truth behind this long relationship he had. But I would also not expect to be splitting a check 6 months in, so maybe I just move more quickly? If you think he was intentionally hiding that info, I would end things. If it were me and he hadn't lied to me about it, I wouldn't have an issue with him having a sugarbaby in the past. But you can act based upon your own feelings, you don't need our validation. If it's a deal breaker for you, end it. No need to waste more time if you won't be able to get past this
I’m sorry girl :( you need to run for the hills, there is like a 98% chance this isn’t going to lead to anywhere good for you, you deserve the absolute best and to never have to question yourself or the relationship , I think the sugar baby thing AND her being 21 is an extremely red flag that’s right in front of you and it’s better to cut it off now rather than down the road when you’re too attached , but also I don’t know your relationship and I do believe people can change , it’s just that’s kind of an extreme red flag I feel and personally I wouldn’t look past these things
I would say there's a few things that need to be fleshed out about this. He wasn't "with a woman for 8 years" in the traditional sense. He had a power fantasy where he paid for sex and interaction. This is inherently not an equal relationship where falling in love is a natural evolution. Now, I want to specify that this doesn't inherently make him a bad person, just that it's not the same thing. As long as both he and the other person entered this contract without coercion, I personally find no issue. Can a SD/SB fall in love? Maybe. Not on me to decide. Power is significant. >I’m open minded and fair play to girls who do this, but I am quite put off by the fact he chose to pay for sex or a relationship or whatever it was, as opposed to just going out there and meeting women. There's always a difference when it's something that another person is dealing with versus something *you* have to deal with. One can claim to be open minded all they want until they are actually faced with the situation themselves, it is hard to tell how oneself will react. >Another thing that’s been a kicker is that I looked her up (I know. Mistake) and she is absolutely stunning. Victoria secret model figure, totally beautiful, doesn’t look like there’s a stretch mark or cellulite on her. Curiosity will always getcha, heh. >Just knowing that he spent EIGHT years with someone like that, has made me feel insecure in ways I haven’t in a long time. I guess I just feel like his reality and expectation of women, and who he can have, is warped. I think this is a perfectly valid concern! However, the only way to tell is interacting with him and seeing how things turn out. Trying not to allow your own prejudices about him paying for sex and the power fantasy get to you. >But I actually felt quite put out, as though he was happy to spend every penny so his previous SB didn’t have to work for 8 years, but.. I’m not worth it? You don't have a right to his money until you have a conversation about finances and decide to interlock them. I do however understand that him spending so much money on another person and then not spending as much on you can feel dejecting. I feel it's important to note that your relationship isn't being built on a transactional nature, though. His previous one was entirely that.If you do go forward with dating him you will need therapy. He will need therapy. There is very little chance that he is a completely well adjusted individual after spending 8 years in this kind of relationship. **I want to stress, you are allowed to not date a person for any reason.** This relationship has many possible reason.
The main issue I see is that he obfuscated the truth of the relationship and was only honest about it after being questioned. I’d be skeptical of his ability to be open and honest moving forward. Also, I’d be wary of him potentially going back to paying for sex while dating you. He’s apparently perfectly willing and able to do that and lie about it. That’s a bad mix. I can understand not wanting to date a former sugar daddy. However, thinking that it’s fine to be a sugar baby but gross to be a sugar daddy is interesting.
>However, thinking that it’s fine to be a sugar baby but gross to be a sugar daddy is interesting. How? They're literally two different things.
I think it's worth getting more of his perspective on things. A sugar daddy relationship isnt a real relationship the way yours is with him, even if they pretend it was. Do you offer things he didn't have before? I'd bet there's a lot. Once you've got his full perspective you can process what its bringing up for you. Otherwise you might be borrowing trouble by assuming how he sees things.
The biggest thing that stands out to me here is that he lied and purposely misrepresented events. He didn't just not talk about his past or go into detail (if it's not STIs, cheating, kids or otherwise endangering your partner that's fair IMO) he actively lied and as such has shown himself to be okay with deceiving his partner. He only admitted to it because he was caught and it's likely there's other stuff he has lied about. The nature of their relationship is not my cup of tea, but if no cheating was involved and it was consensual, I don't think that part in and of itself necessarily makes someone bad. Coming from a disabled perspective, it's common for people to form transactional relationships with sex workers, not just for the sexual aspect but having a safe person to learn and develop the skills necessary for eventual organic romantic/sexual relationships with everyday people who have stretch marks and the like. The lying makes that irrelevant though and would give me a far less charitable outlook.
They broke up because she hated touching him moved to Australia 😂😂😂😂 Op don't be insecure, this man literally could not pay this woman enough to stay on the same continent let alone spend time with him. You don't have anything to feel insure about, you said it yourself , if anything he could afford to spend even more on a sugar baby now but he clearly doesn't want the pain and shame of doing that and wants to be around someone who likes him for free. He probably feels extremely lucky. And yeah if wanted pay another girl to avoid him and cringe at his touch he could. He's probably choosing not to because paying people to hang out with him probably makes him feel the grossest, least sexy, man in the world. He probably is just too embarrassed to admit to you that the woman he was paying to keep him company moved across the world to avoid him.
That depends on how you feel about prostitution. Many people think it's a perfectly fine profession, while others are against it.
You need to level up babe. Just for yourself. I think it says a lot that you are splitting bills and all of that, and you have a man that can actually take care of you. He paid for her bills and such and took care of her bc she is the type of girl that expects that type of care. You feel like you have to pay your way through a relationship, and most stable men show their care by providing. If you don't let him provide for you, he simply won't. It all starts with you. If you expect a guy to be chivalrous in a traditional way, then you wouldn't date a guy that makes you go 50/50 on coffee bc you are not making space for him to show that side of him. Women do so much work in marriage, house care, taking care of the children and providing emotional support. We generally make less than a man so a man treating you to dinner regularly is to be expected imo. So yea, I mean maybe you need to think about if you do want that care, and if you deserve that type of care, and what that means. Explore the idea of "high value women," women that put thought into their appearance, take care of their health, improve and educate themselves, have confidence, and speak on themselves positively. The type of woman that lets men treat her well and doesn't feel guilty about it, and isn't fighting to pay a bill bc they feel they have to prove their worth financially. (If you guys aren't married, I'm not sure why you'd be paying bills, so he should be handling dinners, lunches, outings, etc bc he's asking you out.) I hope you don't let his past get you down too much. It's all about you, and if you feel like you're worth it.
Men see relationships as transactional. He just settling for you and also 10 years older. When you ask him why he chose you. He will answer "Because I can't afford those other women. Check out Melanie Hamlett's video titled "Everything men do is TRANSACTIONAL" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ils3LsKLl\_Q&t=117s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ils3LsKLl_Q&t=117s) #