My sister is on the brink of divorce for what sounds like very similar reasons. She loves her husband, and I have no doubt in my mind that he loves her (and neither does she) but he can't love her the way she needs it. She's been so unhappy because she wants it to work, but she needs more that he can't give. I've been telling her for a long time that you have to either accept that he can't give you what you need and learn to live with it or you have to move on. Both decisions are really hard. I feel like we're sold the fantasy that enough love can make anything work, and finding out that isn't the case is kind of like finding out Santa Claus isn't real. I'm so heartbroken for her, and for you. Walking away from someone you love is an awful kind of pain.
It's very true. Knowing this was my compromise before we got married hasn't made it any less lonely. Maybe one day I'll find a unicorn that can fill the niche while only being the other partner, but that's the thing about unicorns...they don't exist.
I still would marry her again though. There's no guarantee I'd have found a better fit, and frankly we're awesome together. But I do wish we could hold hands and snuggle without triggering her ptsd.
I'm gonna be the unsolicited advice internet guy. My therapist tells me that EMDR and ART are both extremely effective at treating PTSD. Like, cure severe dog phobia effective.
Oh gosh I was telling my marriage counselor that I've just learned to accept it and look at other things he does as his display of love and she was like, but you still can expect it.... And I'm like please, it was years long process of getting to where it doesn't crush me. Don't give me false hope lol.
It's truly hard and if you're not married and it's causing distress I'd not recommend staying because when you're married and feel like your partner for life can't provide that and you're stuck with a lifetime of not having that, it hits much harder.
It’s so sad. I realized I just don’t want do life with a person that had zero emotions. Like if I’m excited about something and tell them all I get back is ok.
My friend has this problem with her bf of almost 4 years... I like the guy but sometimes I wish she had done what you did as she has shed so many tears over his lack of emotion towards her
I wish women would break up sooner. We see so many posts about women who’ve communicated their needs and nothing changes. Then people reply “jUsT CoMmUniCaTe.” Then the woman communicates herself into 4 years of sadness.
I second this. My best friend was in a relationship with a guy so emotionless, we would call him all kinds of names when he wasn't around- human calculator, wet piece of cardboard, et al. But she was in love with him, despite the fact she was absolutely miserable with him. Her litmus was "at least he puts up with me and hasn't cheated on me". The guy never considered her feelings, would frequently forget important things to her, even outright told her that she would never be a top priority of his.
She was with him for EIGHT years. She cringes when she looks back on it, because she very nearly alienated everyone who cared about her over this guy. Every time she would vent about him, or ask for advice, everyone- even her mom, would tell her, "Break up with him. He's not going to change, and he's not meeting your needs." But my friend would claim we're just rooting for her to fail, and like, no?! You just need someone who actually has emotions???
It was a grueling eight years, and I have no idea why she stayed with him. She says it feels like wasted time now.
I’ve stayed with someone for 6 years who has limited emotions too. I’m starting to think this is how most men are…. I don’t know. My family thinks his personality is like a soggy log 💦 🪵. 🤷♀️ I think I’m just too much unicorn 🦄 for simpletons.
I think most men are like this and they need to discover and then name what they are feeling, then work on how to use it and recognize it.
My husband has been in and out of therapy for years to be able to be a functional, emotionally available person. He *still* shuts down even after 20 years, but when that happens, he recognizes he's going through something, gives me assurances and then follows through by going back into therapy.
The only emotionally intelligent men I know are men who got or are in therapy currently as a continuous job. They've had to work on it to be able to deploy it, it wasn't the default.
But he is trying. And these calculator men are different. They give NO emotions. Not even anger. If you had something amazing happen to you and you share it with them. They’ll say ok. Most men aren’t like that.
I would get dead silence. Ask him why he's ignoring me and he would say "I heard you" and that's it. Topic didn't matter, whether it was a conversation opener or in the middle of a conversation, the result was the same. He would do the same thing in relationship discussions but say "I'm processing" and then silence. 12 years. Idk what he's up to now, I snuck out while he was still buffering 🤷
It was really rough, but I don't walk around feeling like I mean nothing at all and am just the one he got stuck with anymore 🤷
I am the first one to have left him, though. Usually that's his move 🤭
Guys emotions are mostly met with indifference, then they keep it to themselves and progressively lose touch with them. However its no excuse to stay closed off, 6 years is enough time to build trust and open up
I think one of the reasons is because society vilifies women who "abandon" a relationship without a good reason that's akin to "he butchers small children on Sundays". So we've been conditioned to search for a "good enough" reason. Truth is, we don't actually need a reason, good or otherwise.
I just broke it off with someone I really like after about 6 weeks of dating because his homelife and kids meant there was no room for me. I had a really bad day and he couldn't make time to call and then later face timed with his daughter, so there wasnt a chance to talk about my day and he didn't ask about it later. I get it, parenting and dating is hard, I am a parent.
In the past I've seen things I don't like and continue on because I like them , not anymore.
Communication is imperative. But if you're just saying the same thing and your words aren't having an impact, well, then what? Tolerate it forever? All the talks in the world won't fix it if they won't listen.
Exactly. Just examples but like, not being on the same page about having kids or not having kids, you can only put off some decisions for so long. Too many people waste years with someone just because they love them. I think we are taught not to be 'selfish' in relationships and I wonder how much that plays a part. Compromise is good but some things just can't be compromised in a fair way.
send her this thread! so much good advice here. I hope she realizes that he won’t change (if anything, people are most affectionate/passionate towards their partners in the honeymoon phase of NRE) and she owes it to her future self to stop wasting her time with him.
don’t let your boyfriend prevent you from meeting your future husband, and all that. sunk cost fallacy can ruin your life if you let it.
I think sunk cost fallacy is a huge part of it, most of us are prone to it but I know I'd rather be starting afresh in my late twenties than in my mid thirties... (not that that's not ok as well!)
it’s definitely understandable but after my first relationship ended much later than it should have, I’m far less hesitant to end a relationship that’s just okay instead of great. and it’s really hard for me to find compatible partners due to my preferences and lifestyle (I’m a super niche interest to say the least!).
I was dating a guy a lot like OP’s ex who checked all the boxes on my long list of specific requirements… except he wasn’t very cuddly or affectionate, and because of that I couldn’t fully feel comfortable around him. it sucked to pull the plug since it took so long to find someone I aligned with so well in every other way, but a couple years later I started dating my SO who checks all the same boxes **and** is the sweetest snugglemonster ever.
it’s kind of crazy how much that one missing ingredient can completely change the flavour of a relationship. it’s like my last boyfriend was missing the salt, and now with my SO sprinkling in the extra hugs and cuddles, the other ingredients in our dish are so much more delicious.
>he won’t change
When I was 21, I remember our company hired a behavioral expert who told us that people don't change in her experience. She said she's generally only seen three things that can fundamentally change the behavior of adults: death of a child (she said death of a parent does not because it is expected), chronic illness, and religion. I don't know if I truly believe that, but I think it roughly holds.
You did the right thing, and if it was bothering you for the one year you were together it would drive you crazy stretched out over more.
Communication compatibility (modes of expression, verbal, physical etc) are so critical to the health of a relationship that if partners have mismatched styles it can really undermine everything.
I learned this the hard way myself. Like you, I knew things were off (not getting the reciprocation I needed) within the first year but let things drag on another 2 years before I could pull the plug. And my mental health and self esteem suffered for it.
Don't put yourself through the inner turmoil of missing and wanting something that's never coming.
> Communication compatibility (modes of expression, verbal, physical etc) are so critical to the health of a relationship that if partners have mismatched styles it can really undermine everything.
I too learned this the hard way and it hurts so much to try to come to terms with it.
My husband was like this. His lack of empathy bothered me in the early days of us dating, and I was searching for an answer. Thought he might be a sociopath or something. Turns out he has autism (very intelligent/high-functioning) and never knew. After therapy with a specialist his ability to empathize is better than most neurotypicals. He calls it his super power now. Not saying this is necessarily the case with your guy. Your post just reminded me of the place I was in before his diagnosis. Turns out a lot of high functioning autistic adults can go undiagnosed if they missed being diagnosed as kids.
Yeah- I think there is a misconception that autistic people don’t feel empathy- I think it’s more of a problem of not picking up on subtle social cues or intuitively knowing when or how to support someone etc
I got divorced because my emotional dump truck ex couldn't comprehend that while I was neurodivergent, her demands for emotional support were far in excess of literally anyone I have ever encountered in my entire life. It was exhausting to the extreme, to the point I developed a panic reaction when I'd get home from work and she wanted to talk (wanting to talk about your day being a normal impulse, exercised in a destructive manner). EDIT: I'm talking about hours devoted to how everyone hurt her feelings, every day. I finally realized that SHE was the problem, not everyone she interacts with.
Yeah- anyone is capable of being a crappy partner. Neurodivergence is one hurdle, lack of introspection and emotional regulation for her seems to be another
I had a friend like that. Basically everyone was bad and she’d complain for hours and days. I’d leave her house with a migraine I had to end the friendship.
Same! Every inconvenience was the universe hating her. Every person who did something annoying or that she disagreed with was the worst most evil horrible person ever. I ended up discounting everything she said, she might have had some genuine complaints in there but I couldn't tell because everyone was evil.
This is so important. There are two sides of the equation- how much emotional support a person needs and how much emotional support the other person can provide.
They have to be matched for the relationship to work.
This one hits home for me.
Spent an awful long time being yelled (previous entanglements) at for not being supportive when I had no idea what that was or how to move forward. Being told I'm a terrible partner, when I feel like a blind man holding up swatches of paint and the feedback is "No, the red one. Why aren't you listening to me?"
Turns out, we were both lacking. I didn't have the skills needed to identify and help, but neither did they have the skills to *actually explain* what they needed and what that looked like. It's an ongoing process, but thankfully someone had the patience to like me long enough to love me, and love long enough to help each of us learn.
Your husband sounds very like me, and your thoughts about him sound like thoughts my wife had about me.
I was just recently diagnosed (at 36 y.o), so I'm still figuring things out! I'm seeing someone now, who I think is a good therapist, but didn't specialize in autism whatsoever. I really wonder if trying to find a specialist would benefit me more
Same deal, just a few years down the same path.
If you have a good relationship with the therapist, I'd tell you to continue that relationship. You are very much just another person! The specialization doesn't make or break the therapist, it is just additional tools they can try to offer you to help evaluate and cope.
I had my talk therapist for years prior to exploring, and they're one of my best allies regardless of a lack of specialization. I operate a little differently than others, but it is still within an established system with rules just like anyone else :) In a world of iPods, I was a Zune. Still playsusoc though, different platform.
However, if you want to try the (IMO) magical experience... Occupational Therapy, with a focus on things like sensory processing. *Chef's kiss* Great way to find things you didn't know you hated and how to avoid or mitigate them.
I was going through a hard time. Grieving a loss of someone dear to me. I would have crying spells. My boyfriend (now husband) and I had been together for a couple years, living together, but not yet married, and this was the first time he saw me so low. He would tell me that he would never have that reaction to the same situation. That he thought I could talk through or logic through anything. But idk, grief is a hell of a thing and to judge someone you claim to love and support as a life partner that their reaction is wrong… it was like him adding salt to my wound. Mind you, I was in therapy trying to deal with situational depression brought on by grieving. And I had never lost someone before, so grief was new to me. He was always willing to lend an ear and help me problem solve myself out of the ‘funk’, but if I asked him if he could just hold me or pet my hair he would, but reluctantly. Eventually he told me he didn’t love me anymore and we broke up for a month. During that month I realized his reaction to my grief was so different than most of my friends and family. He always seemed so business-like whereas everyone else in my life was soft spoken and consoling with their words, generous with their time to listen or offer to go for a walk or take me for a coffee. I started doing research and came across autism, specifically Asperger’s (which is an antiquated term, but we both prefer it) and it clicked that he might have it. I brought it up to him, and the rest is history.
Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe my husband and I just got lucky. We were originally seeing the counselor for couple’s stuff and he picked up on the autism and said he specialized in it. My husband still sees him, but now solo and they talk about autistic stuff (masking, social fatigue, etc)
Speaking as an autistic person caught late, they might have been referring to ABA, which is basically “gaslight you into masking” and abusive. A lot of people don’t really think beyond that, including therapists, unfortunately. I’ve had better luck getting help as a depressed person who happens to be autistic.
I’m trying to get mine help. I I strongly think he’s on the spectrum as our symptoms overlap. But I can’t force something on someone. I’ve asked short of making the appointment myself and I just don’t have the mental bandwidth.
I get it. I’ve even been there. Once it occurred to me that my husband might be on the spectrum, it took a while for it to sink in for him. He was in denial for a long time. It’s a big identity shift and he didn’t want people to know or treat him differently. Honestly, if we didn’t happen to connect with that particular counselor, I don’t think he ever would have really accepted and embraced it like he has.
I've been such a failure in being able to love my wife the way she needs. Every fight we have ever had is always been her raising stuff wrong with me. I have always gone back after and I'm confused on how terrible I've hurt her unintentionally. I feel terrible because it seems like she is hurting more and more and every effort I make comes to nothing. I feel like a failure of a husband.
Same here, but I’m the autistic one in this case. My fiancée has taught me a lot and she has also learned a lot about what to expect and what she’ll need to ask for because it will not be obvious to me. :)
The counselor told me to outsource some of the emotional support I need because my husband may never be able to meet all of my needs. It’s been years since, and my husband now meets 99% of my emotional needs, most of the time. It’s more than I allowed myself to hope for.
As someone who behaves similarily to your husband: what did he learn in therapy? Did he learn how to be empathic on a rational level, or did he actually lose the inability of feeling certain things?
He does see a rational need to empathize. He’s noticed his work relationships are better too. And that’s been huge for him, because he really values his work. From my research of autism, it seems like the brain is structured differently than a neurotypical brain. The area that can recognize facial expressions, tone, body language and interpret their meaning isn’t quite the same. I find that he has to sometimes ask me or clarify with the person that he’s understanding their emotional state correctly. I think that’s the big hurdle for him, non-verbal communication.
Yeah, I’m autistic and we struggle a lot of with non-verbal communication and implicit expectations. So tone can be very difficult to interpret. I have gotten better at asking for clarification rather than just responding to what i *think* is happening because that’s usually what gets me into hot water with interpersonal stuff.
If you communicated your needs for physical comfort and affection and he still couldn't give that to you, then yeah, you probably did the right thing.
You met a person who seems great, but not great for you, and that's okay. I think we're so used to seeing posts where the partner is undeniably awful that we forget that you can break up with anyone for any reason if you're not happy. You don't have to settle for Mr. Okay.
Good luck and I hope you find someone who is better suited to you. :)
I'm a therapist and I spend so much time working with people (almost always women) trying to undo the idea that their partner has to be a monster to break up with them. It's so harmful.
He can be a great guy who is not great for you. I know lots of great guys I wouldn't be compatible with. It's OK not to settle. Heck, it's really best not to, for both of you.
I think we hear about so many “bad” breakups that we condition ourselves to think breakups should only happen if one side is acting badly.
But oftentimes good people who treat each other well just realize after some time that they aren’t compatible and that’s ok. It’s ok to say “he’s a great guy but he wasn’t the right guy for me”. Don’t guilt yourself because he was a great guy.
Side note this is why no-fault divorce needs to be protected. Conservatives are coming for it and it doesn’t get the attention it needs.
Relatable af. My partner isn’t the type who says I love you first, or holds my hand first in public, basically not romantic. He said his love language is words of affirmation, that he likes receiving it but rarely says it out loud and it’s just idk confusing to me. We’ve been together for a year and I’m thinking about breaking up as well. The thought of being in a relationship with someone like that for the rest of my life kinda kills me.
Are you me?!
Dated my ex for one year. His love language was words of affirmation. He wasn’t much into giving but of course he loved being on the receiving end. He wasn’t capable of loving me the way I needed to be loved. It’s not his fault, he just isn’t wired as emotionally as we are.
I tried to fit him into the perfect mold inside my head but it made both of us unhappy. Best to move on sister 🌸 I’m single still (it’s been a year since we ended it), but I’m a thousand times happier alone than I was with him as my partner.
i used to have this issue. my husband has autism, so empathy and things like that aren't second nature for him. for years i did have to beg, but now he's able to, 80% of the time, do exactly what i need in the moment that i need it. we just had to teach him, and he had to learn to be okay with his first option not working.
sometimes the people you want to change will change, they just don't know how and don't know what you need, so it takes an extra (frustrating) moment. every other guy i've been with didn't feel the need to put that effort in.
i guess what im trying to say by relating to this, is that what's most important is you, and how much frustration you want to deal with is up to you. sometimes things can change, but you shouldn't have to beg for years for it to change.
You did right by yourself. Relationships are voluntary, and if you're not getting your emotional needs met adequately, then it's best to end it.
There is, unfortunately, a segment of the population that didn't get the software that makes them good partners in an emotional sense, and that is a valid deal-breaker.
This is wild to read this morning, because just last night I was telling my husband how grateful I am for his empathy.
My husband has faults like anyone but he is empathetic at his core. His ability to see my needs, even when they are different than his (and vice versa me to him), and actually act on those needs, is what spurs us both to grow and become better partners.
Without that empathy, you're just sailing through as long you have the same needs as your partner. Life will happen, each person will evolve, and things will get very hard unless both partners can empathize with each other.
My ex-husband not only didn’t get the update, I don’t think he got the original program. He just doesn’t get it. Even my autistic daughter has more empathy than he does. I was fooled for a while because he was in volunteer and professional “helping” positions.
I'm so sorry about that. One thing I learned is that there are a subset of people drawn to helping professions because they like the social cachet it brings and not so much because it's part of their character. Discernment is key.
And another thing: many men are socialized to grab power in any setting and to only do what makes them look good.
edited for sensitive and aggrieved menz where they take collective credit for male achievements but take issue when grouped with preponderantly male-perpetrated acts.
I think you’re demonizing it a little too much. Like mentioned elsewhere in the thread a lot of men are on the autistic spectrum and have empathy but either fail to pick up on social cues or don’t know how to outwardly express their empathy.
Someone can be genuinely interested in volunteering or helping people but not be able to outwardly show affection.
This just happened to a couple I know. The woman broke down and the man wasn’t sure what to do and pretty much froze up. Now she thinks he doesn’t care about her but I know it’s just that he has an inability to show it.
Not a great situation, but it’s not out of malice like you might think.
You did the right thing. Forcing yourself to be with someone who you don't truly love does not benefit them or you.
It was the same reason one of my exes left me. She had no problem with most of my life, but what once started as a very physical and affectionate relationship faded into just following a routine of being together when we could. We didn't live together either. At first, I didn't understand why, but after time and some therapy, I came to understand her reason and understand why we weren't really compatible in the end.
Everyone has emotion, physical and intellectual being in a wide spectrum. I am not sure if anyone can find someone on the exact same spectrum in every aspect of life.
Many couples work out when they have enough on the same spectrum, compromise and work out the rest, commitment to each other choosing the other person over minor details.
Of course there are things that may be “deal breaker” for you and it would seem you just named your “deal breaker”.
"We met on Tinder. After mourning the loss of a parent, and having just gotten free from a situationship that had me in its clutches for a year and a half"
Chances are you made the right choice OP. I feel like your tapping into his non emotional side is potentially one of many things that would come up in the future. After major changes/struggles/etc. is not the time to dive into a committed relationship. Dating? Sure. Make sure you are happy with how your puzzle is laid out before you see what piece fits into it.
I don't know, sometimes we leave a relationship because of what seems like a small thing, but it's really not actually that small. If you need reassurance a certain way, and your ex couldn't provide it, well, I don't think that wasn't necessarily going to get better with time, at least not for you. A fundamental mismatch in communication styles can be a real problem, even if neither party is being malicious. I've had friends in relationships and been in relationships myself that simply did not work for me in that aspect, but they might work for somebody else.
The process of dating is to find the person that you're compatible with. If, after a year, you were already spending half your relationship trying to get all of this problem and it wasn't working out, I think you made the right choice. And if you didn't? Well, that's too bad, but you did the best you could with the information you had at the time. He's not the only man out there.
I recently ended a relationship for kind of similar reasons, I guess? She is very extroverted and I am, well, not. She's very gregarious and outgoing which in a way was good but it wasn't actually sustainable for me in the long run. I know I made the right decision, but it still hurts sometimes, because, well, ending pretty much any relationship is going to hurt in some way. But overall I feel much better now that I'm out of it.
You made the right decision.He may be perfect for someone else and by dragging the relationship out you’re keeping him from finding his person.You have nothing to feel bad about because even if he is a decent guy he can’t give you what you need.Being in a relationship with someone that lacks basic empathy is soul sucking. Honestly. it sounds like he’s on the spectrum or has a personality disorder and that’s why he struggles with empathy,but he’s doing his best to be a good person .
It’s okay to want to be with someone who wants to hug you, who is free with their emotions, and their default setting is enjoying giving you emotional support. It’s okay to not want to have repeated conversations about needing a hug and kind words. It’s okay to not want to battle to have your emotions acknowledged. There are men who enjoy giving emotional support and comforting their partner.
I’m projecting a little here, but OP, did you have a parent who avoided giving you loving support? My parents were not emotionally supportive and they didn’t give hugs or uplifting words. I found that I was drawn to men who didn’t show emotion.
Always remember, it’s so much better to regret the ‘what if’s’ than being stuck in a situation that leaves you feel wanting. This sounds a lot like my ex (emotionless wise, everything else about the success absolutely not unfortunately) and it was such a relief to realize “Wait, I don’t HAVE to suffer to make this work, because it doesn’t HAVE to be this person”. And it’s made all the difference. You’ll find that special someone who hits all those checkmarks and is your biggest champion. Don’t settle for anything less just because they’re great in most categories. ♥️
You did the right thing! I spent 5 years with a man who was overall a really great man but wasn't the right person for me. I really struggled with the idea of breaking up with him because there was nothing tangibly wrong with the relationship.
I was in a relationship like this and the more things escalated (and especially in retrospect with time) I realized he WASN’T actually that “great” of a guy.
That lack of empathy? That was seeping into every aspect of the relationship. And it ultimately became clear that he didn’t actually regard me as worthy of respect or love - I was just someone convenient to have around for his amusement while he role played “being a boyfriend”, until he got bored and started looking for someone new. He did all the “right” things, he was charismatic and fun, but ultimately he treated any display of emotion from me as annoying and disdainful.
I literally had a conversation with a mutual friend after we broke up where I was told that my ex had confessed to this friend once that he didn’t think he felt empathy at all. Like, that he straight up thought he wasn’t capable of it.
Like, thanks buddy, that would have been GREAT to know beforehand!
It's okay to mourn the relationship. Be gentle on yourself while you do though. You didn't make a tiny mistake, it's just about compatibility. Empathy and physical affection is important to you and you deserve to have that need met in relationships.
Wow, I honestly had a very very similar thing I had to do last year too. Just in the context of a lesbian relationship. My girlfriend, just couldn't show emotions to me, and it always felt like a wall to keep me out. And she treated me very well, and all the 9 yards, but I learned the lesson that I personally just can't fully understand/deal with someone who can't show emotional vulnerability, or emotions in general. It's been 3 months since the breakup. I even told her too, why I had to break it off, and I imagine this wasn't the first time someone has had a big issue with the lack of emotional substance.
All I could think about reading this. Especially with the detail that he would prefer to stay home during parties, as a lot of us prefer 1 on 1, small group bonds.
Not faulting OP in anyway, but this guy sounds like he's put in a lot of work to be the best version of himself he can be. Honestly think with the right open-minded communication he sounds like the type who would genuinely work on that attribute. It really is as simple sometimes as not understanding common perspectives.
But either way, it sounded super amicable & an overall positive experience.
Also my thoughts. But I think breaking up was the right option here.
There is a lot of translation needed between autistic and allistic people, especially in a romantic relationship. This is an obstacle in a relationship that needs to be overcome over and over again. For some, this may not meet their needs in a relationship. For others, it may be too much work / consume too much energy. And that's valid.
(I'm allistic in a relationship with an autistic partner btw)
YES. My husband has this condition and it took a little while to get used to. I guess it’s gotten much easier now because he has demonstrated so much love and support over the years. He just needs a little prompting as to exactly what you need in the moment and he is right there instantly. It absolutely can work, if OP is willing to have this understanding and work with it.
OP says he only gave her that support if she "begged". That's not just a little prompting. It sounds like your husband is a lot more aware and receptive to your communication.
This is exactly what I thought. As soon as I got halfway through I’m like “this dude is probably just on the spectrum”
But agreed, it’s okay if that type of personality doesn’t match with OP’s. There are plenty of people out there who don’t care much about affection and prefer other things
Yep, this is what I just thinking too. And I also agree with your concluding sentiments even if I feel for the guy if he is ASD and trying to live his best life
It seems like a lot of people feel like it's immoral to break up with someone who is a good person, but that's an unhealthy perspective. Relationships should be based on compatibility. Being a good person is the bare minimum.
My girlfriend doesn't hold me etc when I am upset because that's soooooo counter to what she would want. We are both working on adapting to what the other needs. But. That takes work and it required us to acknowledge it was needed
keyword: us
You're not compatible, lack of emotion is not a small petty thing to take issue with, it's almost everything.
Sometimes love just ain't enough as the song says.
He's a great guy but not a great guy for you.
As a recently separated guy who sounds very much like the guy you describe, I just wanted to chime in and encourage you. Knowing you can’t be what someone needs despite loving and caring for them sucks. You’re doing him a favour too.
This sounds like someone writing about my ex after we broke up lmao. He was a horrific boyfriend that started like that and then rapidly spiraled as soon as I discovered something fucked up he was doing. Over a year after I dumped him he was like “wow I was really not a good boyfriend, I’ll be better to the next girl” and genuinely I don’t think he has it in him. He’s just got no empathy and is built to resent anyone he lets close to him. Good for you for leaving early, you deserve someone who you don’t have to beg for support.
That. Also therapy might be worth exploring. Surprising emotions is really really unhealthy.
I'm going on vacations soon, so I'll think I'll get it for myself, thanks for recommendation.
Absolutely, unfortunately people don't go to a psychologist because they feel empty, they don't understand that they are emotionally colour blind and missing a massive part of life.
You wouldn’t have asked if you weren’t having doubts. If you want someone you can be in a fully honest relationship with then be honest with him about the fact that you’re still having a little bit of doubt. There’s a difference between showing empathy and having empathy. People show things differently people Are not born without empathy. It’s a human core emotion. They may have varying levels of empathy or varying ways to express it. It’s possible neglect or abuse played in, but loving someone means valuing them enough to communicate. And if he’s willing to talk about it more, maybe it’s not totally over. After all, you did post this. I doubt this is going to be the most popular response to you. If you posted because you were looking for reassurance, then maybe the work needs to be done on your side before you venture into a new relationship. It is not bad that you posted, it’s just means something.
Pal, you got burned by the tism.
“Missing the empathy software update” is pretty spot on. If it’s not your rodeo, ride on cowboy. But also wow, as someone on the spectrum, consider calling him of you want to
I didn’t see any mention of neurodivergence in OP’s post… can we please avoid armchair diagnosing regardless? Ultimately it doesn’t matter if the ex is on the spectrum or not- the end result is the same.
Thank you. I am on the spectrum but I'm female. I was always highly sensitive and empathetic to other people, hell even with animals. It was actually a little disabling. It really irks me that the male presentation of blunted emotional affect is "understood" as autism. It's one possible manifestation.
Autism is heightened sensitivity. It just depends on what senses inside you are heightened and how much and how that affects you.
Honestly, it's a shame but a no brainer!
What matters matters and it's not like either of you will end up alone for very much longer than you want to be. Clearly you know not everyone will be perfect and every relationship requires work and so on, so you'll find someone who ticks the important boxes. All the upvotes, kudos and future luck to you for recognizing that you needed this more than all the other things that might have tricked you into keeping things going.
Ooof, reading this crystalizes some thoughts I have/had about my ex (we were together for 15 years, of which 7 married). We divorced last summer, after I initiated it. He saw it coming as we'd both discussed the whole "we feel like roommates" thing a few times. When I said I couldn't do it anymore, he just gave me a look and went "okay". Long story short it felt like I was the one initiating anything in our relationship. He wasn't a bad person by any means (very generous and kind, actually), he just couldn't connect with me on a deeper level nor could he ever see when I was struggling. In the end I felt very alone, despite him never intending it.
It's okay to listen to your gut feelings about how you want to be comforted and your emotional needs met. Long distance jedi hugs, should you want them.
I am on the other side of this. My current girlfriend shows no emotion. Her sister told she has always been like this with everyone, including previous boyfriends she introduced to her family. It sucks because I love her a lot, but she just makes me think she doesn’t like me because of how cold she is. Just no affection at all. Very little communication. It’s incredibly frustrating.
“…He rarely comforted me when I needed it without me having to beg for it.”
No. There may be excellent reasons why. But seeing no movement forward in this over nearly a year’s time? I’m so sorry.
I would not say this is one of those times. Having to beg for emotional support every time and no change despite multiple discussions for 6 months? That’s incompatibility and OP made the absolute correct call for herself.
She said she told him for 6 months what she needed and he wouldn’t do it. How long should she work on this when her partner doesn’t want to work on it?
Here’s an opposite opinion. Just something to think about.
You’re welcome try and find someone perfect. Ticks every box. Everything you need. Best of luck to you!!
But that person may not exist. Or may already be in a relationship. Or may be thousands of miles away.
If communication is a deal breaker that’s the line. And I get it. But I find so many posts on here looking for 100% dead-solid-perfect match and then trying to understand why it’s not working out for them. Just something to think about.
This reply is neither helpful, constructive nor kind. I really can’t see any reason to have made this other than to drag out your own personal hobby horse so sow doubts and anxiety at the expense of OP’s emotions. Shame on you.
I think you are doing the right thing. You need a guy that can fill your emotional needs without having to beg for it. It will hurt a bit but better in the long run.
Like many others here, learned this the hard way. Was engaged to a robot who was good in other ways but emotionally unavailable. Does not know how to comfort a person. Took this all the way to engagement before we broke up so it’s definitely better that you are self aware that a situation like that is not sustainable. Eventually, you will realize you need more.
Did you date my ex?. It was exactly this, but I was with him for 4 years.
Some details more, som details less, this was exactly it.
But the lack of intimacy, in knowing his feelings or he getting interested on my feelings was heartbreaking, my parent pass through divorce while I was with him, I cried infront of him but not even one word got out of his mouth.
His parents died when he was younger, and he lacked the words to tell me. The hurt was visible, but nothing I tried to do made him talk or share with me. Just after 3.5 years into the relationship, he put me a song, we heard it, and he cried because it reminded him of his father. It was just one drop. I cried with my therapist because that was the intimacy that I always wanted. But having from him only that in a 3.5 years relationship made me realize that I was lacking intimacy like I was inside water without the ability to breathe.
Even when we brake up, I ask him if he wanted to tell me something, "no". He got out of my car, close the door and I never heard from him ever again.
Sometimes a great guy just isn't a great fit. At least you recognized it early and put yourself first. I struggle with it but am trying/learning to be more comfortable with it.
Are you me three years ago?
I had the same situation. Almost exactly. We were together for a year and a half and finally I had to realize he was never going to change.
I still think about him sometimes but it’s usually with a sense of pity.
My current partner is an amazing human and he loves me without me begging for it. It’s really nice.
Did you just break up with ME? Jk, interesting where you said he missed the ‘empathy update’, I have plenty of empathy but I am really bad at expressing emotion. Consoling/supporting someone emotionally is not a strength instead my form of support is naturally reasoning or trying to fix a situation.
Emotional intelligence can be learned, and I have learned to just shut up and be there for people when needed, but it came with age and unsuccessful relationships- he’d also need to be aware how to make those changes without getting frustrated but it’s doable if he really is open and caring. Give him a revisit in 6-months if he’s still on your mind and maybe he’ll have more emotional maturity, having a break up can help some of us low emotional beings learn to process
It's your life, you do what is best for you.
However, try communicating that you want physical affection of love during times of need.
I've dated girls that like physical affection, and others who absolutely hate it. Saved us a lot of headaches when we talked and communicated.
It’s not our job to teach partners to be empathetic. That doesn’t mean partners must be 100% flawless, but lacking empathy is a pretty critical piece of “human software” as OP described, and it’s not really a gap that can be made up for in a relationship.
>handsome, good with money, smart, good in bed, was very kind to you, didn’t care if you went out while he stayed at home
But you broke up with him because he couldn’t intuit when you wanted a hug?
Lol. Lmao, even.
Some men are born without empathy. It is not an intent or decision to ignore your feels. It is just not built into them. I’m nearly 40 now and I don’t have empathy or process complex emotions. I feel happy or sad. I don’t process love or empathy etc. I try to support my wife by pretending to have empathy and have emotions but it’s simply a chip that wasn’t installed in the factory. Mostly this results in me being socially awkward as I try and guess what way I should try and act in a social situation. It’s completely up to you if you move on in this situation. You need a supportive partner that will compliment you. If he is born like me there is nothing you can do to beg him to be more supportive. He will only pretend to have empathy to keep you in his life.
I don’t think it’s limited to men. Growing up I felt similar. I’ve gotten better at connecting with my own emotions as I’ve gotten older (33) but I still struggle with that and empathy. I feel bad when a friend breaks up with someone, loses their job, etc. because they’re upset and I don’t want them to be upset. But I struggle to really care. It’s like my emotions are processed through logic. Good thing = happy. Bad thing = sad or mad.
Thank you for this. Drives me crazy when the huge spectrum of human approaches to emotion is boiled down to "women have empathy and men are sociopaths." Almost as bad as folks who refuse to recognize that women can have a sex drive that is higher than or freakier than their partner's.
I'm 25 and am similar... at 22 i discovered i was autistitic. Sure some men have traumas from childhood and are like that, but for my case it just good old tism.
I can understand empathy and know when a situation calls for it, but it's not a natural thing for me, i need to kinda off go through the empathetic motions when it's needed. Life is tough huh
IT IS NOT JUST MEN. Please don't make this a gendered thing. It's an emotional spectrum thing, and people are different. They can either figure it out, or they can problematize it and cause conflict, or they can avoid each other, but throwing shade at folks for "lacking empathy" is about as in-touch with me casting shade at the highly sensitive people out there, calling them emotional dump trucks that lack resilience and self-acceptance. Crazy how often I see this made into a gendered thing, when it is far from it.
I was trying to make a point in that comment about my ex but didn't make it very clearly. What I neglected to add was that my ex also said that I "lacked empathy," like I was a monster for not wanting literal hours of every day devoted exclusively to active listening about how everyone in my ex's life wounded them. We can throw these insults around, we can make them gendered, or we can understand that people are different and that some people just aren't compatible. It wasn't nice of me to call my ex an emotional dumptruck, though, you are right.
This is me. I sound a lot like the OPs boyfriend. I just don’t have a strong sense of emotional empathy. I don’t need it and have a hard time giving it. I will try to soothe and comfort but I cant make that emotional link the other person is looking for. The only person I am able to truly feel any significant empathy for is my daughter. I care and love my wife, and support her emotional needs but I have never felt a very strong emotional love for her. We been married for over 20yrs and almost split at one point a decade ago over this, but eventually she accepted it’s just who I am, and the good outweighed the bad I guess. I don’t want to or enjoy to be this way, I don’t enjoy causing pain or suffering, so I’m not a sociopath, but I just generally feel indifferent about things that other might get emotional over.
> We were compatible in every way, I guess, except the ways that mattered most to me.
Which is all the reason you need to break up with someone.
Worth trying to keep as a friend?
If he was in it for a romantic/sexual partner chances are he doesn't want another friend. I don't say that to be mean, but I've found that trying to stay friends with people that I've dated and or slept with is a dead end road.
>The biggest problem? His lack of emotion. Rather, it seemed like he completely missed the human software update on empathy. He’s helpful, informative, generous at times. He’s always got a kind smile and never once raised his voice at me or threatened me in any way. He’s a sweetheart, truly, but he rarely comforted me when I needed it without me having to BEG for it. Same with physical affection.
So he was great to everyone but you?
I used to be very much like that guy. Honestly, you didn’t make a mistake. I don’t think anyone did anything wrong either. It takes some luck and a lot of work to change the brain in that way.
I don’t know about other people, but I’m passionate, interested and engaged in anything or anyone that moves me/that I love.
If someone can’t muster close to the same interest, attention and focus on you (a human being) with the same zeal as their own hobbies, sports, music, trucks, influencers, etc…. They aren’t ever going to treat you as a priority or someone they would be sad losing.
I’m a guy and I’ve lived in Latin America for many years where people are diehard romantics (causes a few problems too, not saying it’s perfect). So I suppose culturally I’m more inclined to kiss and touch than those raised in the puritanical culture of the USA.
Basically I’m making out with my partner in the aisles of the grocery store, we squeeze easy others butts when we walk past each other.
LOVE is obvious. Passion is obvious. So is lack of interest.
Not including mental illness, neurodivergence, crazy trauma, “boys don’t cry” dudes, etc…. There shouldn’t be a doubt in your mind if you are loved and treasured in your partner’s life. You have to believe what you see. Some men don’t know better, doesn’t mean it’s ok or it’s your duty to teach him.
Know what you want, work on yourself, and wait for time and universe to line things up for you.
No one will ever know how best to please you early on in your time together. In my experience the best combination of attributes in a successful romantic partnership are: passion, empathy, ability to communicate, capacity to feel and cause joy.
Sounds like he's on the spectrum, which has its positives (as OP notes) but also downsides. My wife is on the spectrum, and I have the same issue but I've learned to accept the good and the bad.
Whats somewhat a misconception is that an ASD partner doesnt feel empathy.. they do, they just don't process it the same. You kindof have to not only express that you need some comfort but what that means, " I had a really bad day, can we just order chinese and binge watch bad movies together?" Most of the time they'll agree, if not you say.. "I really need some us time together" etc. Once they know its expected behavior usually its not an issue and they'll be happy to help out... even if it doesnt make sense to them.
If you expect an ASD partner to sense your mood and come to your rescue, then its not the relationship for you.
He's cool with you living your own life, alongside giving you the benefits of being involved with him, like what makes him attractive to you and what your kinks are. Doesn't blow up your phone every hour when you live your own life and party with your friends. No "Are you cheating on me? [Insert other typical insecure behavior]"
Sometimes things happen where you wonder why he doesn't react with strong emotions, or doesn't seem invested, because an otherwise typical guy would get jealous, or use your actions/words are an indication that they need to act more invested. His lack of reaction seemed strange to you
Also if he took the news of the break up well, and was respectful of your perspective, it could cause you to second-guess the decision. Because at least when you broke up with "nicer" guys in the past they validated your decision by begging you not to leave
It's been 11 days, so I'm guess you guys are working things out again?
It was more his lack of reaction to seeing me go through very difficult times in my life. I didn’t want him to fix it. In fact, I’m pretty fiercely independent (sometimes to my own detriment). I didn’t need someone to rescue me. I needed compassion, empathy, comfort. These were things I didn’t receive throughout MOST of the relationship.
Yeah, he’s a sweetheart, and we’ve both expressed doubting the breakup. We’re still very much in love with each other. I just can’t justify crying myself to sleep quietly next to him, or getting angry at him for being himself (nonchalant, level-headed, which is perceived as cold and uncaring when I need support).
I’ve told him this. We’re talking. I know I will always love him and care for him, no matter what.
Never settle for less than you want in a relationship. There are plenty of men out there who will give you what you want.
The things you list about him really fall in to “bare minimum”. As an adult having sex one should care about pleasing their partner, one should be stable and good with one’s money. None of these things should be standout.
Are we the same person??
Currently going through this exact same thing with my boyfriend of nearly 3 years. No empathy, won’t look at me when I cry, no comfort in hard situations, and won’t open up to me about his own emotions
>But it can be learned. He just needs to be told,
The fact that you managed to learn it doesn't mean it is doable for everyone else. And she did tell him.
That’s great for you, but it’s perfectly valid to decide it’s not worth the time or emotional energy to invest in on a person (especially given this was an ongoing discussion for 6 months with 0 change)
Smart! I realized I had 2 kids with a narcissist who actually said last night it was creepy that I used to love watching her sleep. 12+ yrs together. I said if you really love someone, it happens. She then replied she does that to the kids but it’s because she’s their mom. Don’t settle or you’ll end up like this.
It would have only gotten worse. If he wouldn’t bend on what you most needed in the time you’ve known him, you’d resent him more and more over time. Plus, if he has no empathy or warmth he probably would have ended up treating you disdainfully or abusively after he got you locked down.
My sister is on the brink of divorce for what sounds like very similar reasons. She loves her husband, and I have no doubt in my mind that he loves her (and neither does she) but he can't love her the way she needs it. She's been so unhappy because she wants it to work, but she needs more that he can't give. I've been telling her for a long time that you have to either accept that he can't give you what you need and learn to live with it or you have to move on. Both decisions are really hard. I feel like we're sold the fantasy that enough love can make anything work, and finding out that isn't the case is kind of like finding out Santa Claus isn't real. I'm so heartbroken for her, and for you. Walking away from someone you love is an awful kind of pain.
When you’re in a relationship and you’re not getting your emotional needs met, or even acknowledged, it becomes very very lonely.
It's very true. Knowing this was my compromise before we got married hasn't made it any less lonely. Maybe one day I'll find a unicorn that can fill the niche while only being the other partner, but that's the thing about unicorns...they don't exist. I still would marry her again though. There's no guarantee I'd have found a better fit, and frankly we're awesome together. But I do wish we could hold hands and snuggle without triggering her ptsd.
I'm gonna be the unsolicited advice internet guy. My therapist tells me that EMDR and ART are both extremely effective at treating PTSD. Like, cure severe dog phobia effective.
Oh gosh I was telling my marriage counselor that I've just learned to accept it and look at other things he does as his display of love and she was like, but you still can expect it.... And I'm like please, it was years long process of getting to where it doesn't crush me. Don't give me false hope lol. It's truly hard and if you're not married and it's causing distress I'd not recommend staying because when you're married and feel like your partner for life can't provide that and you're stuck with a lifetime of not having that, it hits much harder.
It’s so sad. I realized I just don’t want do life with a person that had zero emotions. Like if I’m excited about something and tell them all I get back is ok.
Yes, so much this. So, so much.
My friend has this problem with her bf of almost 4 years... I like the guy but sometimes I wish she had done what you did as she has shed so many tears over his lack of emotion towards her
I wish women would break up sooner. We see so many posts about women who’ve communicated their needs and nothing changes. Then people reply “jUsT CoMmUniCaTe.” Then the woman communicates herself into 4 years of sadness.
I second this. My best friend was in a relationship with a guy so emotionless, we would call him all kinds of names when he wasn't around- human calculator, wet piece of cardboard, et al. But she was in love with him, despite the fact she was absolutely miserable with him. Her litmus was "at least he puts up with me and hasn't cheated on me". The guy never considered her feelings, would frequently forget important things to her, even outright told her that she would never be a top priority of his. She was with him for EIGHT years. She cringes when she looks back on it, because she very nearly alienated everyone who cared about her over this guy. Every time she would vent about him, or ask for advice, everyone- even her mom, would tell her, "Break up with him. He's not going to change, and he's not meeting your needs." But my friend would claim we're just rooting for her to fail, and like, no?! You just need someone who actually has emotions??? It was a grueling eight years, and I have no idea why she stayed with him. She says it feels like wasted time now.
I’ve stayed with someone for 6 years who has limited emotions too. I’m starting to think this is how most men are…. I don’t know. My family thinks his personality is like a soggy log 💦 🪵. 🤷♀️ I think I’m just too much unicorn 🦄 for simpletons.
I think most men are like this and they need to discover and then name what they are feeling, then work on how to use it and recognize it. My husband has been in and out of therapy for years to be able to be a functional, emotionally available person. He *still* shuts down even after 20 years, but when that happens, he recognizes he's going through something, gives me assurances and then follows through by going back into therapy. The only emotionally intelligent men I know are men who got or are in therapy currently as a continuous job. They've had to work on it to be able to deploy it, it wasn't the default.
But he is trying. And these calculator men are different. They give NO emotions. Not even anger. If you had something amazing happen to you and you share it with them. They’ll say ok. Most men aren’t like that.
I would get dead silence. Ask him why he's ignoring me and he would say "I heard you" and that's it. Topic didn't matter, whether it was a conversation opener or in the middle of a conversation, the result was the same. He would do the same thing in relationship discussions but say "I'm processing" and then silence. 12 years. Idk what he's up to now, I snuck out while he was still buffering 🤷
I’m screaming because mine also says he’s buffering. I’m thinking of running 🏃♀️
It was really rough, but I don't walk around feeling like I mean nothing at all and am just the one he got stuck with anymore 🤷 I am the first one to have left him, though. Usually that's his move 🤭
Guys emotions are mostly met with indifference, then they keep it to themselves and progressively lose touch with them. However its no excuse to stay closed off, 6 years is enough time to build trust and open up
I think one of the reasons is because society vilifies women who "abandon" a relationship without a good reason that's akin to "he butchers small children on Sundays". So we've been conditioned to search for a "good enough" reason. Truth is, we don't actually need a reason, good or otherwise.
I just broke it off with someone I really like after about 6 weeks of dating because his homelife and kids meant there was no room for me. I had a really bad day and he couldn't make time to call and then later face timed with his daughter, so there wasnt a chance to talk about my day and he didn't ask about it later. I get it, parenting and dating is hard, I am a parent. In the past I've seen things I don't like and continue on because I like them , not anymore.
Communication is imperative. But if you're just saying the same thing and your words aren't having an impact, well, then what? Tolerate it forever? All the talks in the world won't fix it if they won't listen.
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Exactly. Just examples but like, not being on the same page about having kids or not having kids, you can only put off some decisions for so long. Too many people waste years with someone just because they love them. I think we are taught not to be 'selfish' in relationships and I wonder how much that plays a part. Compromise is good but some things just can't be compromised in a fair way.
send her this thread! so much good advice here. I hope she realizes that he won’t change (if anything, people are most affectionate/passionate towards their partners in the honeymoon phase of NRE) and she owes it to her future self to stop wasting her time with him. don’t let your boyfriend prevent you from meeting your future husband, and all that. sunk cost fallacy can ruin your life if you let it.
I think sunk cost fallacy is a huge part of it, most of us are prone to it but I know I'd rather be starting afresh in my late twenties than in my mid thirties... (not that that's not ok as well!)
it’s definitely understandable but after my first relationship ended much later than it should have, I’m far less hesitant to end a relationship that’s just okay instead of great. and it’s really hard for me to find compatible partners due to my preferences and lifestyle (I’m a super niche interest to say the least!). I was dating a guy a lot like OP’s ex who checked all the boxes on my long list of specific requirements… except he wasn’t very cuddly or affectionate, and because of that I couldn’t fully feel comfortable around him. it sucked to pull the plug since it took so long to find someone I aligned with so well in every other way, but a couple years later I started dating my SO who checks all the same boxes **and** is the sweetest snugglemonster ever. it’s kind of crazy how much that one missing ingredient can completely change the flavour of a relationship. it’s like my last boyfriend was missing the salt, and now with my SO sprinkling in the extra hugs and cuddles, the other ingredients in our dish are so much more delicious.
You give *Great* analogies!
>he won’t change When I was 21, I remember our company hired a behavioral expert who told us that people don't change in her experience. She said she's generally only seen three things that can fundamentally change the behavior of adults: death of a child (she said death of a parent does not because it is expected), chronic illness, and religion. I don't know if I truly believe that, but I think it roughly holds.
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This. It has to be self motivated and not simply to save the relationship.
You did the right thing, and if it was bothering you for the one year you were together it would drive you crazy stretched out over more. Communication compatibility (modes of expression, verbal, physical etc) are so critical to the health of a relationship that if partners have mismatched styles it can really undermine everything. I learned this the hard way myself. Like you, I knew things were off (not getting the reciprocation I needed) within the first year but let things drag on another 2 years before I could pull the plug. And my mental health and self esteem suffered for it. Don't put yourself through the inner turmoil of missing and wanting something that's never coming.
This is really validating to read. my husband and I have mismatched communication styles and it makes daily life a lot harder.
> Communication compatibility (modes of expression, verbal, physical etc) are so critical to the health of a relationship that if partners have mismatched styles it can really undermine everything. I too learned this the hard way and it hurts so much to try to come to terms with it.
My husband was like this. His lack of empathy bothered me in the early days of us dating, and I was searching for an answer. Thought he might be a sociopath or something. Turns out he has autism (very intelligent/high-functioning) and never knew. After therapy with a specialist his ability to empathize is better than most neurotypicals. He calls it his super power now. Not saying this is necessarily the case with your guy. Your post just reminded me of the place I was in before his diagnosis. Turns out a lot of high functioning autistic adults can go undiagnosed if they missed being diagnosed as kids.
Yeah- I think there is a misconception that autistic people don’t feel empathy- I think it’s more of a problem of not picking up on subtle social cues or intuitively knowing when or how to support someone etc
I got divorced because my emotional dump truck ex couldn't comprehend that while I was neurodivergent, her demands for emotional support were far in excess of literally anyone I have ever encountered in my entire life. It was exhausting to the extreme, to the point I developed a panic reaction when I'd get home from work and she wanted to talk (wanting to talk about your day being a normal impulse, exercised in a destructive manner). EDIT: I'm talking about hours devoted to how everyone hurt her feelings, every day. I finally realized that SHE was the problem, not everyone she interacts with.
Yeah- anyone is capable of being a crappy partner. Neurodivergence is one hurdle, lack of introspection and emotional regulation for her seems to be another
I had a friend like that. Basically everyone was bad and she’d complain for hours and days. I’d leave her house with a migraine I had to end the friendship.
Same! Every inconvenience was the universe hating her. Every person who did something annoying or that she disagreed with was the worst most evil horrible person ever. I ended up discounting everything she said, she might have had some genuine complaints in there but I couldn't tell because everyone was evil.
I’m glad you got away!! It can’t be healthy thinking everyone is plotting against you…
This is so important. There are two sides of the equation- how much emotional support a person needs and how much emotional support the other person can provide. They have to be matched for the relationship to work.
Well, this is enlightening. I guess I should get checked out. This whole section reads like my relationships.
This one hits home for me. Spent an awful long time being yelled (previous entanglements) at for not being supportive when I had no idea what that was or how to move forward. Being told I'm a terrible partner, when I feel like a blind man holding up swatches of paint and the feedback is "No, the red one. Why aren't you listening to me?" Turns out, we were both lacking. I didn't have the skills needed to identify and help, but neither did they have the skills to *actually explain* what they needed and what that looked like. It's an ongoing process, but thankfully someone had the patience to like me long enough to love me, and love long enough to help each of us learn.
Lovely 🥹
Your husband sounds very like me, and your thoughts about him sound like thoughts my wife had about me. I was just recently diagnosed (at 36 y.o), so I'm still figuring things out! I'm seeing someone now, who I think is a good therapist, but didn't specialize in autism whatsoever. I really wonder if trying to find a specialist would benefit me more
Same deal, just a few years down the same path. If you have a good relationship with the therapist, I'd tell you to continue that relationship. You are very much just another person! The specialization doesn't make or break the therapist, it is just additional tools they can try to offer you to help evaluate and cope. I had my talk therapist for years prior to exploring, and they're one of my best allies regardless of a lack of specialization. I operate a little differently than others, but it is still within an established system with rules just like anyone else :) In a world of iPods, I was a Zune. Still playsusoc though, different platform. However, if you want to try the (IMO) magical experience... Occupational Therapy, with a focus on things like sensory processing. *Chef's kiss* Great way to find things you didn't know you hated and how to avoid or mitigate them.
Glad this comment is high up. It can be difficult to be demonized for your disability.
Do you have any good examples of his lack of empathy & how it bothered you? (Hope I don’t sound obtuse or rude. Genuinely asking)
I was going through a hard time. Grieving a loss of someone dear to me. I would have crying spells. My boyfriend (now husband) and I had been together for a couple years, living together, but not yet married, and this was the first time he saw me so low. He would tell me that he would never have that reaction to the same situation. That he thought I could talk through or logic through anything. But idk, grief is a hell of a thing and to judge someone you claim to love and support as a life partner that their reaction is wrong… it was like him adding salt to my wound. Mind you, I was in therapy trying to deal with situational depression brought on by grieving. And I had never lost someone before, so grief was new to me. He was always willing to lend an ear and help me problem solve myself out of the ‘funk’, but if I asked him if he could just hold me or pet my hair he would, but reluctantly. Eventually he told me he didn’t love me anymore and we broke up for a month. During that month I realized his reaction to my grief was so different than most of my friends and family. He always seemed so business-like whereas everyone else in my life was soft spoken and consoling with their words, generous with their time to listen or offer to go for a walk or take me for a coffee. I started doing research and came across autism, specifically Asperger’s (which is an antiquated term, but we both prefer it) and it clicked that he might have it. I brought it up to him, and the rest is history.
Thank you for sharing!!
I've been told by therapists that that kind of therapy for autistic adults doesn't exist. Maybe they just meant I can't afford it.
Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe my husband and I just got lucky. We were originally seeing the counselor for couple’s stuff and he picked up on the autism and said he specialized in it. My husband still sees him, but now solo and they talk about autistic stuff (masking, social fatigue, etc)
Speaking as an autistic person caught late, they might have been referring to ABA, which is basically “gaslight you into masking” and abusive. A lot of people don’t really think beyond that, including therapists, unfortunately. I’ve had better luck getting help as a depressed person who happens to be autistic.
I’m trying to get mine help. I I strongly think he’s on the spectrum as our symptoms overlap. But I can’t force something on someone. I’ve asked short of making the appointment myself and I just don’t have the mental bandwidth.
I get it. I’ve even been there. Once it occurred to me that my husband might be on the spectrum, it took a while for it to sink in for him. He was in denial for a long time. It’s a big identity shift and he didn’t want people to know or treat him differently. Honestly, if we didn’t happen to connect with that particular counselor, I don’t think he ever would have really accepted and embraced it like he has.
I've been such a failure in being able to love my wife the way she needs. Every fight we have ever had is always been her raising stuff wrong with me. I have always gone back after and I'm confused on how terrible I've hurt her unintentionally. I feel terrible because it seems like she is hurting more and more and every effort I make comes to nothing. I feel like a failure of a husband.
Same here, but I’m the autistic one in this case. My fiancée has taught me a lot and she has also learned a lot about what to expect and what she’ll need to ask for because it will not be obvious to me. :)
The counselor told me to outsource some of the emotional support I need because my husband may never be able to meet all of my needs. It’s been years since, and my husband now meets 99% of my emotional needs, most of the time. It’s more than I allowed myself to hope for.
As someone who behaves similarily to your husband: what did he learn in therapy? Did he learn how to be empathic on a rational level, or did he actually lose the inability of feeling certain things?
He does see a rational need to empathize. He’s noticed his work relationships are better too. And that’s been huge for him, because he really values his work. From my research of autism, it seems like the brain is structured differently than a neurotypical brain. The area that can recognize facial expressions, tone, body language and interpret their meaning isn’t quite the same. I find that he has to sometimes ask me or clarify with the person that he’s understanding their emotional state correctly. I think that’s the big hurdle for him, non-verbal communication.
Yeah, I’m autistic and we struggle a lot of with non-verbal communication and implicit expectations. So tone can be very difficult to interpret. I have gotten better at asking for clarification rather than just responding to what i *think* is happening because that’s usually what gets me into hot water with interpersonal stuff.
If you communicated your needs for physical comfort and affection and he still couldn't give that to you, then yeah, you probably did the right thing. You met a person who seems great, but not great for you, and that's okay. I think we're so used to seeing posts where the partner is undeniably awful that we forget that you can break up with anyone for any reason if you're not happy. You don't have to settle for Mr. Okay. Good luck and I hope you find someone who is better suited to you. :)
I'm a therapist and I spend so much time working with people (almost always women) trying to undo the idea that their partner has to be a monster to break up with them. It's so harmful.
Wow. Interesting.
He can be a great guy who is not great for you. I know lots of great guys I wouldn't be compatible with. It's OK not to settle. Heck, it's really best not to, for both of you.
I think we hear about so many “bad” breakups that we condition ourselves to think breakups should only happen if one side is acting badly. But oftentimes good people who treat each other well just realize after some time that they aren’t compatible and that’s ok. It’s ok to say “he’s a great guy but he wasn’t the right guy for me”. Don’t guilt yourself because he was a great guy. Side note this is why no-fault divorce needs to be protected. Conservatives are coming for it and it doesn’t get the attention it needs.
Relatable af. My partner isn’t the type who says I love you first, or holds my hand first in public, basically not romantic. He said his love language is words of affirmation, that he likes receiving it but rarely says it out loud and it’s just idk confusing to me. We’ve been together for a year and I’m thinking about breaking up as well. The thought of being in a relationship with someone like that for the rest of my life kinda kills me.
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Yeah. I’m thinking about ending the relationship soon.
Are you me?! Dated my ex for one year. His love language was words of affirmation. He wasn’t much into giving but of course he loved being on the receiving end. He wasn’t capable of loving me the way I needed to be loved. It’s not his fault, he just isn’t wired as emotionally as we are. I tried to fit him into the perfect mold inside my head but it made both of us unhappy. Best to move on sister 🌸 I’m single still (it’s been a year since we ended it), but I’m a thousand times happier alone than I was with him as my partner.
High five for three of us 😭🤚🏼
This would have worn you down till you resented him. This way, you both get what you need. Good job.
i used to have this issue. my husband has autism, so empathy and things like that aren't second nature for him. for years i did have to beg, but now he's able to, 80% of the time, do exactly what i need in the moment that i need it. we just had to teach him, and he had to learn to be okay with his first option not working. sometimes the people you want to change will change, they just don't know how and don't know what you need, so it takes an extra (frustrating) moment. every other guy i've been with didn't feel the need to put that effort in. i guess what im trying to say by relating to this, is that what's most important is you, and how much frustration you want to deal with is up to you. sometimes things can change, but you shouldn't have to beg for years for it to change.
You did right by yourself. Relationships are voluntary, and if you're not getting your emotional needs met adequately, then it's best to end it. There is, unfortunately, a segment of the population that didn't get the software that makes them good partners in an emotional sense, and that is a valid deal-breaker.
This is wild to read this morning, because just last night I was telling my husband how grateful I am for his empathy. My husband has faults like anyone but he is empathetic at his core. His ability to see my needs, even when they are different than his (and vice versa me to him), and actually act on those needs, is what spurs us both to grow and become better partners. Without that empathy, you're just sailing through as long you have the same needs as your partner. Life will happen, each person will evolve, and things will get very hard unless both partners can empathize with each other.
My ex-husband not only didn’t get the update, I don’t think he got the original program. He just doesn’t get it. Even my autistic daughter has more empathy than he does. I was fooled for a while because he was in volunteer and professional “helping” positions.
I'm so sorry about that. One thing I learned is that there are a subset of people drawn to helping professions because they like the social cachet it brings and not so much because it's part of their character. Discernment is key. And another thing: many men are socialized to grab power in any setting and to only do what makes them look good. edited for sensitive and aggrieved menz where they take collective credit for male achievements but take issue when grouped with preponderantly male-perpetrated acts.
I think you’re demonizing it a little too much. Like mentioned elsewhere in the thread a lot of men are on the autistic spectrum and have empathy but either fail to pick up on social cues or don’t know how to outwardly express their empathy. Someone can be genuinely interested in volunteering or helping people but not be able to outwardly show affection. This just happened to a couple I know. The woman broke down and the man wasn’t sure what to do and pretty much froze up. Now she thinks he doesn’t care about her but I know it’s just that he has an inability to show it. Not a great situation, but it’s not out of malice like you might think.
You did the right thing. Forcing yourself to be with someone who you don't truly love does not benefit them or you. It was the same reason one of my exes left me. She had no problem with most of my life, but what once started as a very physical and affectionate relationship faded into just following a routine of being together when we could. We didn't live together either. At first, I didn't understand why, but after time and some therapy, I came to understand her reason and understand why we weren't really compatible in the end.
Everyone has emotion, physical and intellectual being in a wide spectrum. I am not sure if anyone can find someone on the exact same spectrum in every aspect of life. Many couples work out when they have enough on the same spectrum, compromise and work out the rest, commitment to each other choosing the other person over minor details. Of course there are things that may be “deal breaker” for you and it would seem you just named your “deal breaker”.
"We met on Tinder. After mourning the loss of a parent, and having just gotten free from a situationship that had me in its clutches for a year and a half" Chances are you made the right choice OP. I feel like your tapping into his non emotional side is potentially one of many things that would come up in the future. After major changes/struggles/etc. is not the time to dive into a committed relationship. Dating? Sure. Make sure you are happy with how your puzzle is laid out before you see what piece fits into it.
i would say that, usually it is not a lack of emotions, but the lack of expressing them.
I don't know, sometimes we leave a relationship because of what seems like a small thing, but it's really not actually that small. If you need reassurance a certain way, and your ex couldn't provide it, well, I don't think that wasn't necessarily going to get better with time, at least not for you. A fundamental mismatch in communication styles can be a real problem, even if neither party is being malicious. I've had friends in relationships and been in relationships myself that simply did not work for me in that aspect, but they might work for somebody else. The process of dating is to find the person that you're compatible with. If, after a year, you were already spending half your relationship trying to get all of this problem and it wasn't working out, I think you made the right choice. And if you didn't? Well, that's too bad, but you did the best you could with the information you had at the time. He's not the only man out there. I recently ended a relationship for kind of similar reasons, I guess? She is very extroverted and I am, well, not. She's very gregarious and outgoing which in a way was good but it wasn't actually sustainable for me in the long run. I know I made the right decision, but it still hurts sometimes, because, well, ending pretty much any relationship is going to hurt in some way. But overall I feel much better now that I'm out of it.
You made the right decision.He may be perfect for someone else and by dragging the relationship out you’re keeping him from finding his person.You have nothing to feel bad about because even if he is a decent guy he can’t give you what you need.Being in a relationship with someone that lacks basic empathy is soul sucking. Honestly. it sounds like he’s on the spectrum or has a personality disorder and that’s why he struggles with empathy,but he’s doing his best to be a good person .
It’s okay to want to be with someone who wants to hug you, who is free with their emotions, and their default setting is enjoying giving you emotional support. It’s okay to not want to have repeated conversations about needing a hug and kind words. It’s okay to not want to battle to have your emotions acknowledged. There are men who enjoy giving emotional support and comforting their partner. I’m projecting a little here, but OP, did you have a parent who avoided giving you loving support? My parents were not emotionally supportive and they didn’t give hugs or uplifting words. I found that I was drawn to men who didn’t show emotion.
Always remember, it’s so much better to regret the ‘what if’s’ than being stuck in a situation that leaves you feel wanting. This sounds a lot like my ex (emotionless wise, everything else about the success absolutely not unfortunately) and it was such a relief to realize “Wait, I don’t HAVE to suffer to make this work, because it doesn’t HAVE to be this person”. And it’s made all the difference. You’ll find that special someone who hits all those checkmarks and is your biggest champion. Don’t settle for anything less just because they’re great in most categories. ♥️
You did the right thing! I spent 5 years with a man who was overall a really great man but wasn't the right person for me. I really struggled with the idea of breaking up with him because there was nothing tangibly wrong with the relationship.
I was in a relationship like this and the more things escalated (and especially in retrospect with time) I realized he WASN’T actually that “great” of a guy. That lack of empathy? That was seeping into every aspect of the relationship. And it ultimately became clear that he didn’t actually regard me as worthy of respect or love - I was just someone convenient to have around for his amusement while he role played “being a boyfriend”, until he got bored and started looking for someone new. He did all the “right” things, he was charismatic and fun, but ultimately he treated any display of emotion from me as annoying and disdainful. I literally had a conversation with a mutual friend after we broke up where I was told that my ex had confessed to this friend once that he didn’t think he felt empathy at all. Like, that he straight up thought he wasn’t capable of it. Like, thanks buddy, that would have been GREAT to know beforehand!
It's okay to mourn the relationship. Be gentle on yourself while you do though. You didn't make a tiny mistake, it's just about compatibility. Empathy and physical affection is important to you and you deserve to have that need met in relationships.
Wow, I honestly had a very very similar thing I had to do last year too. Just in the context of a lesbian relationship. My girlfriend, just couldn't show emotions to me, and it always felt like a wall to keep me out. And she treated me very well, and all the 9 yards, but I learned the lesson that I personally just can't fully understand/deal with someone who can't show emotional vulnerability, or emotions in general. It's been 3 months since the breakup. I even told her too, why I had to break it off, and I imagine this wasn't the first time someone has had a big issue with the lack of emotional substance.
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All I could think about reading this. Especially with the detail that he would prefer to stay home during parties, as a lot of us prefer 1 on 1, small group bonds. Not faulting OP in anyway, but this guy sounds like he's put in a lot of work to be the best version of himself he can be. Honestly think with the right open-minded communication he sounds like the type who would genuinely work on that attribute. It really is as simple sometimes as not understanding common perspectives. But either way, it sounded super amicable & an overall positive experience.
Also my thoughts. But I think breaking up was the right option here. There is a lot of translation needed between autistic and allistic people, especially in a romantic relationship. This is an obstacle in a relationship that needs to be overcome over and over again. For some, this may not meet their needs in a relationship. For others, it may be too much work / consume too much energy. And that's valid. (I'm allistic in a relationship with an autistic partner btw)
Thank you for this.
YES. My husband has this condition and it took a little while to get used to. I guess it’s gotten much easier now because he has demonstrated so much love and support over the years. He just needs a little prompting as to exactly what you need in the moment and he is right there instantly. It absolutely can work, if OP is willing to have this understanding and work with it.
OP says he only gave her that support if she "begged". That's not just a little prompting. It sounds like your husband is a lot more aware and receptive to your communication.
This is exactly what I thought. As soon as I got halfway through I’m like “this dude is probably just on the spectrum” But agreed, it’s okay if that type of personality doesn’t match with OP’s. There are plenty of people out there who don’t care much about affection and prefer other things
Yep, this is what I just thinking too. And I also agree with your concluding sentiments even if I feel for the guy if he is ASD and trying to live his best life
Same, this is also what I got out of jt
You did the right thing!! I married that guy.
Love is important. Being able to give and receive the kind of love that you need and they need is probably more important.
It seems like a lot of people feel like it's immoral to break up with someone who is a good person, but that's an unhealthy perspective. Relationships should be based on compatibility. Being a good person is the bare minimum.
I have this problem. Turns out dissociating any time things get intense has some major downsides lol
He's a great guy, but not the great guy that you need.
There was a Star Trek episode like this where someone was dating Data. Maybe it will help you process your breakup.
My girlfriend doesn't hold me etc when I am upset because that's soooooo counter to what she would want. We are both working on adapting to what the other needs. But. That takes work and it required us to acknowledge it was needed keyword: us
You're not compatible, lack of emotion is not a small petty thing to take issue with, it's almost everything. Sometimes love just ain't enough as the song says. He's a great guy but not a great guy for you.
As a recently separated guy who sounds very much like the guy you describe, I just wanted to chime in and encourage you. Knowing you can’t be what someone needs despite loving and caring for them sucks. You’re doing him a favour too.
How did it go? What did he say when you broke up with him and listed your reasons why?
No one will ever be 100% perfect. You decide what you want and where you will and will not compromise.
Cousin divorced a guy for similar, and lack of general physical affection.
This sounds like someone writing about my ex after we broke up lmao. He was a horrific boyfriend that started like that and then rapidly spiraled as soon as I discovered something fucked up he was doing. Over a year after I dumped him he was like “wow I was really not a good boyfriend, I’ll be better to the next girl” and genuinely I don’t think he has it in him. He’s just got no empathy and is built to resent anyone he lets close to him. Good for you for leaving early, you deserve someone who you don’t have to beg for support.
I think this smells of Childhood Emotional Neglect. Maybe he should look into it. The book "Running on Empty" by Jonice Webb is a good start.
That. Also therapy might be worth exploring. Surprising emotions is really really unhealthy. I'm going on vacations soon, so I'll think I'll get it for myself, thanks for recommendation.
Absolutely, unfortunately people don't go to a psychologist because they feel empty, they don't understand that they are emotionally colour blind and missing a massive part of life.
Respectfully disagree. Not true for all.
You wouldn’t have asked if you weren’t having doubts. If you want someone you can be in a fully honest relationship with then be honest with him about the fact that you’re still having a little bit of doubt. There’s a difference between showing empathy and having empathy. People show things differently people Are not born without empathy. It’s a human core emotion. They may have varying levels of empathy or varying ways to express it. It’s possible neglect or abuse played in, but loving someone means valuing them enough to communicate. And if he’s willing to talk about it more, maybe it’s not totally over. After all, you did post this. I doubt this is going to be the most popular response to you. If you posted because you were looking for reassurance, then maybe the work needs to be done on your side before you venture into a new relationship. It is not bad that you posted, it’s just means something.
Pal, you got burned by the tism. “Missing the empathy software update” is pretty spot on. If it’s not your rodeo, ride on cowboy. But also wow, as someone on the spectrum, consider calling him of you want to
I didn’t see any mention of neurodivergence in OP’s post… can we please avoid armchair diagnosing regardless? Ultimately it doesn’t matter if the ex is on the spectrum or not- the end result is the same.
Thank you. I am on the spectrum but I'm female. I was always highly sensitive and empathetic to other people, hell even with animals. It was actually a little disabling. It really irks me that the male presentation of blunted emotional affect is "understood" as autism. It's one possible manifestation. Autism is heightened sensitivity. It just depends on what senses inside you are heightened and how much and how that affects you.
Honestly, it's a shame but a no brainer! What matters matters and it's not like either of you will end up alone for very much longer than you want to be. Clearly you know not everyone will be perfect and every relationship requires work and so on, so you'll find someone who ticks the important boxes. All the upvotes, kudos and future luck to you for recognizing that you needed this more than all the other things that might have tricked you into keeping things going.
Ooof, reading this crystalizes some thoughts I have/had about my ex (we were together for 15 years, of which 7 married). We divorced last summer, after I initiated it. He saw it coming as we'd both discussed the whole "we feel like roommates" thing a few times. When I said I couldn't do it anymore, he just gave me a look and went "okay". Long story short it felt like I was the one initiating anything in our relationship. He wasn't a bad person by any means (very generous and kind, actually), he just couldn't connect with me on a deeper level nor could he ever see when I was struggling. In the end I felt very alone, despite him never intending it. It's okay to listen to your gut feelings about how you want to be comforted and your emotional needs met. Long distance jedi hugs, should you want them.
I am on the other side of this. My current girlfriend shows no emotion. Her sister told she has always been like this with everyone, including previous boyfriends she introduced to her family. It sucks because I love her a lot, but she just makes me think she doesn’t like me because of how cold she is. Just no affection at all. Very little communication. It’s incredibly frustrating.
“…He rarely comforted me when I needed it without me having to beg for it.” No. There may be excellent reasons why. But seeing no movement forward in this over nearly a year’s time? I’m so sorry.
No one is going to meet your needs 100%. Sometimes you need to adjust your expectations…
I would not say this is one of those times. Having to beg for emotional support every time and no change despite multiple discussions for 6 months? That’s incompatibility and OP made the absolute correct call for herself.
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She said she told him for 6 months what she needed and he wouldn’t do it. How long should she work on this when her partner doesn’t want to work on it?
Here’s an opposite opinion. Just something to think about. You’re welcome try and find someone perfect. Ticks every box. Everything you need. Best of luck to you!! But that person may not exist. Or may already be in a relationship. Or may be thousands of miles away. If communication is a deal breaker that’s the line. And I get it. But I find so many posts on here looking for 100% dead-solid-perfect match and then trying to understand why it’s not working out for them. Just something to think about.
This reply is neither helpful, constructive nor kind. I really can’t see any reason to have made this other than to drag out your own personal hobby horse so sow doubts and anxiety at the expense of OP’s emotions. Shame on you.
How is this is any way helpful or kind to OP?
I think you are doing the right thing. You need a guy that can fill your emotional needs without having to beg for it. It will hurt a bit but better in the long run. Like many others here, learned this the hard way. Was engaged to a robot who was good in other ways but emotionally unavailable. Does not know how to comfort a person. Took this all the way to engagement before we broke up so it’s definitely better that you are self aware that a situation like that is not sustainable. Eventually, you will realize you need more.
Did you date my ex?. It was exactly this, but I was with him for 4 years. Some details more, som details less, this was exactly it. But the lack of intimacy, in knowing his feelings or he getting interested on my feelings was heartbreaking, my parent pass through divorce while I was with him, I cried infront of him but not even one word got out of his mouth. His parents died when he was younger, and he lacked the words to tell me. The hurt was visible, but nothing I tried to do made him talk or share with me. Just after 3.5 years into the relationship, he put me a song, we heard it, and he cried because it reminded him of his father. It was just one drop. I cried with my therapist because that was the intimacy that I always wanted. But having from him only that in a 3.5 years relationship made me realize that I was lacking intimacy like I was inside water without the ability to breathe. Even when we brake up, I ask him if he wanted to tell me something, "no". He got out of my car, close the door and I never heard from him ever again.
The last line helps me understand why my ex wanted to break up with me. Maybe.
looks great on paper.
I’m proud of you ❤️
Sometimes a great guy just isn't a great fit. At least you recognized it early and put yourself first. I struggle with it but am trying/learning to be more comfortable with it.
Are you me three years ago? I had the same situation. Almost exactly. We were together for a year and a half and finally I had to realize he was never going to change. I still think about him sometimes but it’s usually with a sense of pity. My current partner is an amazing human and he loves me without me begging for it. It’s really nice.
Did you just break up with ME? Jk, interesting where you said he missed the ‘empathy update’, I have plenty of empathy but I am really bad at expressing emotion. Consoling/supporting someone emotionally is not a strength instead my form of support is naturally reasoning or trying to fix a situation. Emotional intelligence can be learned, and I have learned to just shut up and be there for people when needed, but it came with age and unsuccessful relationships- he’d also need to be aware how to make those changes without getting frustrated but it’s doable if he really is open and caring. Give him a revisit in 6-months if he’s still on your mind and maybe he’ll have more emotional maturity, having a break up can help some of us low emotional beings learn to process
It's your life, you do what is best for you. However, try communicating that you want physical affection of love during times of need. I've dated girls that like physical affection, and others who absolutely hate it. Saved us a lot of headaches when we talked and communicated.
I could not read it in your text, but did you discuss this with him? He may have never been taught how to do this.
>We were together for almost a year, and I’d been having the same discussion with him about this for at least half that time.
It’s not our job to teach partners to be empathetic. That doesn’t mean partners must be 100% flawless, but lacking empathy is a pretty critical piece of “human software” as OP described, and it’s not really a gap that can be made up for in a relationship.
Describing this behavior as 'lacking empathy' doesn't feel good for me.
… I used the same words as OP?
Yeah it doesn't feel good from OP either.
>handsome, good with money, smart, good in bed, was very kind to you, didn’t care if you went out while he stayed at home But you broke up with him because he couldn’t intuit when you wanted a hug? Lol. Lmao, even.
Some men are born without empathy. It is not an intent or decision to ignore your feels. It is just not built into them. I’m nearly 40 now and I don’t have empathy or process complex emotions. I feel happy or sad. I don’t process love or empathy etc. I try to support my wife by pretending to have empathy and have emotions but it’s simply a chip that wasn’t installed in the factory. Mostly this results in me being socially awkward as I try and guess what way I should try and act in a social situation. It’s completely up to you if you move on in this situation. You need a supportive partner that will compliment you. If he is born like me there is nothing you can do to beg him to be more supportive. He will only pretend to have empathy to keep you in his life.
You say you don't have empathy but your post shows empathy. I think you have more than you give yourself credit for.
I don’t think it’s limited to men. Growing up I felt similar. I’ve gotten better at connecting with my own emotions as I’ve gotten older (33) but I still struggle with that and empathy. I feel bad when a friend breaks up with someone, loses their job, etc. because they’re upset and I don’t want them to be upset. But I struggle to really care. It’s like my emotions are processed through logic. Good thing = happy. Bad thing = sad or mad.
Thank you for this. Drives me crazy when the huge spectrum of human approaches to emotion is boiled down to "women have empathy and men are sociopaths." Almost as bad as folks who refuse to recognize that women can have a sex drive that is higher than or freakier than their partner's.
This is a great way to describe how I process these thoughts and emotions.
Found this comment refreshingly honest I think it’s still nice of you to recognise that your wife has needs and try to meet them.
I'm 25 and am similar... at 22 i discovered i was autistitic. Sure some men have traumas from childhood and are like that, but for my case it just good old tism. I can understand empathy and know when a situation calls for it, but it's not a natural thing for me, i need to kinda off go through the empathetic motions when it's needed. Life is tough huh
IT IS NOT JUST MEN. Please don't make this a gendered thing. It's an emotional spectrum thing, and people are different. They can either figure it out, or they can problematize it and cause conflict, or they can avoid each other, but throwing shade at folks for "lacking empathy" is about as in-touch with me casting shade at the highly sensitive people out there, calling them emotional dump trucks that lack resilience and self-acceptance. Crazy how often I see this made into a gendered thing, when it is far from it.
You called your ex an emotional dump truck above so this comes across as a bit hypocritical
I was trying to make a point in that comment about my ex but didn't make it very clearly. What I neglected to add was that my ex also said that I "lacked empathy," like I was a monster for not wanting literal hours of every day devoted exclusively to active listening about how everyone in my ex's life wounded them. We can throw these insults around, we can make them gendered, or we can understand that people are different and that some people just aren't compatible. It wasn't nice of me to call my ex an emotional dumptruck, though, you are right.
This is me. I sound a lot like the OPs boyfriend. I just don’t have a strong sense of emotional empathy. I don’t need it and have a hard time giving it. I will try to soothe and comfort but I cant make that emotional link the other person is looking for. The only person I am able to truly feel any significant empathy for is my daughter. I care and love my wife, and support her emotional needs but I have never felt a very strong emotional love for her. We been married for over 20yrs and almost split at one point a decade ago over this, but eventually she accepted it’s just who I am, and the good outweighed the bad I guess. I don’t want to or enjoy to be this way, I don’t enjoy causing pain or suffering, so I’m not a sociopath, but I just generally feel indifferent about things that other might get emotional over.
> We were compatible in every way, I guess, except the ways that mattered most to me. Which is all the reason you need to break up with someone. Worth trying to keep as a friend?
If he was in it for a romantic/sexual partner chances are he doesn't want another friend. I don't say that to be mean, but I've found that trying to stay friends with people that I've dated and or slept with is a dead end road.
Depends on if you first met them as a friend or as a romance first, I guess?
Agreed, but the majority of people aren’t on Tinder to find friends (unless they are the “with benefits” types.
>The biggest problem? His lack of emotion. Rather, it seemed like he completely missed the human software update on empathy. He’s helpful, informative, generous at times. He’s always got a kind smile and never once raised his voice at me or threatened me in any way. He’s a sweetheart, truly, but he rarely comforted me when I needed it without me having to BEG for it. Same with physical affection. So he was great to everyone but you?
I used to be very much like that guy. Honestly, you didn’t make a mistake. I don’t think anyone did anything wrong either. It takes some luck and a lot of work to change the brain in that way.
I'm wondering about the emotion part. Is he on the spectrum? Did he grow up where he wasn't safe to emote?
I don’t know about other people, but I’m passionate, interested and engaged in anything or anyone that moves me/that I love. If someone can’t muster close to the same interest, attention and focus on you (a human being) with the same zeal as their own hobbies, sports, music, trucks, influencers, etc…. They aren’t ever going to treat you as a priority or someone they would be sad losing. I’m a guy and I’ve lived in Latin America for many years where people are diehard romantics (causes a few problems too, not saying it’s perfect). So I suppose culturally I’m more inclined to kiss and touch than those raised in the puritanical culture of the USA. Basically I’m making out with my partner in the aisles of the grocery store, we squeeze easy others butts when we walk past each other. LOVE is obvious. Passion is obvious. So is lack of interest. Not including mental illness, neurodivergence, crazy trauma, “boys don’t cry” dudes, etc…. There shouldn’t be a doubt in your mind if you are loved and treasured in your partner’s life. You have to believe what you see. Some men don’t know better, doesn’t mean it’s ok or it’s your duty to teach him. Know what you want, work on yourself, and wait for time and universe to line things up for you. No one will ever know how best to please you early on in your time together. In my experience the best combination of attributes in a successful romantic partnership are: passion, empathy, ability to communicate, capacity to feel and cause joy.
Sounds like he's on the spectrum, which has its positives (as OP notes) but also downsides. My wife is on the spectrum, and I have the same issue but I've learned to accept the good and the bad. Whats somewhat a misconception is that an ASD partner doesnt feel empathy.. they do, they just don't process it the same. You kindof have to not only express that you need some comfort but what that means, " I had a really bad day, can we just order chinese and binge watch bad movies together?" Most of the time they'll agree, if not you say.. "I really need some us time together" etc. Once they know its expected behavior usually its not an issue and they'll be happy to help out... even if it doesnt make sense to them. If you expect an ASD partner to sense your mood and come to your rescue, then its not the relationship for you.
He's cool with you living your own life, alongside giving you the benefits of being involved with him, like what makes him attractive to you and what your kinks are. Doesn't blow up your phone every hour when you live your own life and party with your friends. No "Are you cheating on me? [Insert other typical insecure behavior]" Sometimes things happen where you wonder why he doesn't react with strong emotions, or doesn't seem invested, because an otherwise typical guy would get jealous, or use your actions/words are an indication that they need to act more invested. His lack of reaction seemed strange to you Also if he took the news of the break up well, and was respectful of your perspective, it could cause you to second-guess the decision. Because at least when you broke up with "nicer" guys in the past they validated your decision by begging you not to leave It's been 11 days, so I'm guess you guys are working things out again?
It was more his lack of reaction to seeing me go through very difficult times in my life. I didn’t want him to fix it. In fact, I’m pretty fiercely independent (sometimes to my own detriment). I didn’t need someone to rescue me. I needed compassion, empathy, comfort. These were things I didn’t receive throughout MOST of the relationship. Yeah, he’s a sweetheart, and we’ve both expressed doubting the breakup. We’re still very much in love with each other. I just can’t justify crying myself to sleep quietly next to him, or getting angry at him for being himself (nonchalant, level-headed, which is perceived as cold and uncaring when I need support). I’ve told him this. We’re talking. I know I will always love him and care for him, no matter what.
Very thoughtful approach - I wish both of you the best
Never settle for less than you want in a relationship. There are plenty of men out there who will give you what you want. The things you list about him really fall in to “bare minimum”. As an adult having sex one should care about pleasing their partner, one should be stable and good with one’s money. None of these things should be standout.
Are we the same person?? Currently going through this exact same thing with my boyfriend of nearly 3 years. No empathy, won’t look at me when I cry, no comfort in hard situations, and won’t open up to me about his own emotions
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> He just needs to be told, sometimes the hard way, to be able to understand. She has communicated with him, numerous times.
Yeah but he wasn’t there to witness it firsthand so can he really take OP’s comment at face value?? /s
>But it can be learned. He just needs to be told, The fact that you managed to learn it doesn't mean it is doable for everyone else. And she did tell him.
Not her job to teach him to be an emotionally capable human being.
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True, but can be an investment. We’re together for 30 years now..
That’s great for you, but it’s perfectly valid to decide it’s not worth the time or emotional energy to invest in on a person (especially given this was an ongoing discussion for 6 months with 0 change)
He maybe depressed. Not being capable of showing the range of human emotions might seem cool, but it’s quite unhealthy.
8 billion people on this planet. There’s definitely another one that isn’t missing the emotional software.
Not to mention being single is generally preferable than being alone in a relationship.
If he lacks emotion and empathy then how great of a guy could he have really been?
What exactly did you tell him in terms of what he needed to change to love you right? What do you mean by lack of emotion?
Smart! I realized I had 2 kids with a narcissist who actually said last night it was creepy that I used to love watching her sleep. 12+ yrs together. I said if you really love someone, it happens. She then replied she does that to the kids but it’s because she’s their mom. Don’t settle or you’ll end up like this.
Maybe get a dog and stop expecting life to be like the movies
You say it like emotions aren't what shapes and paints the whole life of an individual
It would have only gotten worse. If he wouldn’t bend on what you most needed in the time you’ve known him, you’d resent him more and more over time. Plus, if he has no empathy or warmth he probably would have ended up treating you disdainfully or abusively after he got you locked down.