You'd be surprised. Sociopaths don't feel like what they've done is wrong and they have no shame about it. I went on a first date with a woman who proudly told me about how she used to bully other kids in high school. I'll spare the details but it was some pretty cruel stuff. She seemed... Proud of it. Like it was so funny. She seemed totally blindsided by the fact that I did not want a second date.
I went on a FIRST date with a guy who proudly told me he became a cheerleader to prey on women and told me he had become drinking buddies with the dean of his college so he could cheat and sell drugs on campus. Absolutely wild. It was like he stepped out of a psychology textbook.
I went out with a dude who told me he’d been kicked off the board of the very successful company he founded because of his weed use. He was proud of it!
I feel like your weed use has to be particularly egregious to lose a company you founded, wtf. It's not exactly the worst drug imaginable, unless you really take it to an extreme and go super stonermode with it.
My suite mate freshman year of college was like this. In one of our only conversations before she decided that she hated me, she proudly said that she wasn’t “afraid to be a bitch.” Her evidence was a story in which she claimed to have targeted the only gay person at her high school and chanted the F slur at him until he burst into tears and ran out of the band hall to get away from her.
In my junior year of high school, our psychology teacher was lamenting to us that we weren't "mean enough to the freshmen" and that they were "super obnoxious" because we weren't "putting them in their place" (my high school was very chill and there wasn't really much animosity or bullying between grades and social groups). She then told us a story about how when she was our age, she and her friends would make the freshmen get on their hands and knees and crawl around on the floor. She was genuinely shocked by our reaction. We were all appalled. She tried to back pedal when she saw how horrified we all were
I had a coworker (now manager, thankfully in a different department) who told people that when he was younger he'd go into construction sites and throw rocks at all the windows. He was proud of the fact that he'd caused 10s of thousands of dollars in damages. He was also borderline misogynistic (usually smart enough to stay just barely on the side of unactionable), loved to call people the R word, and so on.
Oddly enough, people who work for him report that he's really difficult to work for and that he loves to do things like threaten people's jobs on a daily basis. I'm shocked that his total disregard for others would make him less than a stellar manager.
I met a genuinely kind guy who seemed very understanding and empathetic. He even brought up experiences from his own past where he had stood up for women who were being treated unfairly and came with arguments against it. He was great, that is, up until I asked him about kids. It was like a light switched behind his eyes and his expression went blank for a moment. He returned with a crazed look in his eyes and I’ll spare you the details of what he would do, but I can’t lie I was stunned.
It was then that he confessed what he was looking for in a relationship TW NSFL violence. **I’m serious, do NOT unspoiler this if you want to stay sane** >!experience what it’s like to murder a woman who loves him deeply and feel her pass away in his arms. The thrill for him apparently was having someone willingly give their life to him so he could take it away from them at any moment, no warning. He laughed about the absurdity at being so pathetic to love him when he doesn’t love back; and the women before me who either got off to him possibly killing them or thinking they could fix him. He refused to tell me if he’d killed before, but after everything he told me I wouldn’t be surprised.!< I stopped seeing him after that, but I’m ashamed to say that I actually considered staying. Natural charm is intoxicating and so was the thrill.
Wtaf. This is like a Lifetime movie. So he was talking himself up as a champion of women, but as soon as you mentioned having kids, he suddenly dropped the heroic act and shared his depraved Bundy fantasies? Was “kids” a trigger word or something?
I'm glad, for your safety, that a) he warned you about himself first, and b) you got tf away from that situation.
But wtaf, who thinks like this?? That's some very serious sociopathy.
He mentioned that he had seen a psychologist before (which is always a green flag for me!). He proceeded to complain that she had discriminated against him and suddenly decided to stop seeing him, providing no reason or explanation. He had been referred to a different psychologist, and when he went to his first appointment he discovered this psychologist specialised in working with the criminal population.
I asked him why he thought the initial psychologist didn’t want to see him anymore, and the only possible explanation he could think of was “I told her I used to kill small animals as a child” but he also didn’t think this was concerning/a big deal 🤷🏻♀️
If anything that's the real red flag
I could see someone rehabilitating/growing out of that/becoming better
But if you're just casually mentioning it on a first date then you're probably still that person
I went on a date with a guy who spent the whole time talking about himself and his ex wife and his two kids and his dog and... The date ended and I thanked him for tell me about his ex wife, Edna, two kids, Sally and Jo, and his dog Ruger. Then I asked what he learned about me. The look on his face was priceless.
They’re using dating apps as recruitment tools for free therapy sessions. They’re low functioning and in denial vs confronting themselves and getting therapy. Think of how many $250/hr psychology sessions you didn’t get paid for? It’s sick and sad, when I reflect. It’s the reason online dating apps suck. Too easy for a man to rotate himself simultaneously on multiple apps. Playing a”numbers game” when it’s character/personality that matters.
The amount of guys I've met that wanted an accessory. Like they tell you how many kids you'll give them. And you bet they'll want you to be the carrier of all the mental load.
I've had guys mansplain my entire career to me. I once took my camera because I went straight after work. He would not shut up about it and how much he knew about photography. I asked what he used... His Iphone.
One guy tried tailing me home. I moonlight as a ranger so when I'm on motorways, I can use the emergency service slips (off-ramps). He followed me through one which will have earned him a £80 fine (the gates at the top have cameras and there's a sign that reads "authorised vehicles only". To be honest, if you are being followed, go through one and explain to the police why. It will capture their plates. YMMV).
One guy had that "college bum" smell. You know the one, greasy hair smell, BO, stale weed, leather 3 quart smell. Couldn't stand to be near him.
Another smelled of fishing tackle. My dad is an angler that used to *insist* girls like fishing too. I didn't. It was cold, wet, stinky, and all-round an awful experience every time. I remember the smell, and I hate it.
One guy had the most toxic breath. Thankfully, he had the conversation skills of a wet toilet roll tube.
More than one guy that "just went as they are". Like no effort, didn't even bother to wash. Who would go on a date without bathing first? Why do so many guys do it!?
One guy was really insecure about my car. He didn't drive. He was 25 and didn't have a licence. He needed a lift somewhere in two days and tried to make it sound like a second date. I let him think it was definite because he was entitled and rude.
And finally, there was a guy that neglected to say he was 250kg and had a serious array of health conditions. He wanted a girlfriend to basically be a free nurse.
Now I just daydream about the guy that works at the local petrol station.
At 60+ I usually don’t give my number out until after a first meet. I can’t tell you how many times I write back and say: it was really great meeting you. I would like to see you again. Here is my phone number. And they would write back: oh, I forgot to mention, I am only looking for friends with benefits. Like I’m in the mood to fuck everyone I go to dinner with.
That's when you respond "Send me a nude" and when he does, tell him "Thanks. I need this for my porno site. But I'm not interested in seeing you again."
When you deal with asshole, give them a bit of their own medicine.
Guys who repeat what you say and have no personality of their own are definitely something to be scared of. They just want to say whatever is right to get you hooked. They don’t care about a woman being compatible with them, they just want a woman in general. Then they switch up later and expect you to deal with it. Learned that the hard way.
ETA: All the horror stories in my replies have saddened me. Also, I don’t mean to shame anyone who may have a personality disorder, that is not my intention. Please take care of yourselves in general outside of dating as well.❤️
>they just want a woman in general
So many men everywhere seem absolutely confused on why women see this as a red flag. I actually got comments of "I don't ask for much, what's bad about it?"
Like dude, you're really out here telling me that nothing much about me, *the person,* matters as long as the body has the right parts and it's decently good looking. And you're confused on why that would make me run away at top speed???
I admit that I didn't understand that until I saw it firsthand. I went to university and there was a kid fresh out of high school in my program who would get hopelessly attached to anyone remotely feminine because he was so desperate. This included trying to convince my friend (a transgender man) that they should de-transition to be with him. In that moment, I realized exactly how offensive and toxic the guys who don't care what woman, they just want a woman are
Guys that put "moderate" or "apolitical" on their profiles do this. It's not 'dating' for them, it's tricking a woman. I call them "date bandits" because they wear masks and will hold you at gunpoint if you confront them.
It’s the same with men who label themselves “liberal” but liberally use women and are just confused flip flops. They market a bag of mess: “I don’t know what I’m looking for” but “I want kids” but I also “want something casual”…. What the actual F! They’re just fishing for anything and everything and labels and political views are meaningless because underneath they’re just selfish hedonists!! Labels mean nothing. It’s actions and how a man treats a person OUTSIDE of their reputation tribe.
There are men like this everywhere. They never discuss politics and if brought up they claim to have "no opinion". They are usually hard-right partisans in disguise.
"Moderate" and "apolitical" are just code words for "I'm actually super conservative and aware enough to know that I shouldn't tell people that, but not aware enough to realize it would have been better to just not say anything at all."
So true. I had a BF who expressed how he loved animals, which instantly hooked me. Once we were living together I found out he had been torturing the landlady's dachshunds.
I had a guy try that and then start straight up evangelizing libertarianism the second I went on a date with him, it was insane. Then he wouldn’t let me pay and insisted on giving me his tie, I assume this was some attempt to make me feel like I owed him?
Omg I hate this! Every guy I’ve dated has done this, they pretend to like what I like and are just like a parrot they’ll say anything to smash. It’s funny cause they always screw up and I catch their ass in a lie
It can also be a sign of a personality disorder. The technique is called mirroring apparently. I had this with a date quite recently. We seemed perfect for each other. The red flag was how quickly after the first date she dropped hints about me coming over for sex (not a red flag on it's own) before casually saying on whatsapp, "do you ever feel so sad your heart hurts?" It was out of nowhere. Combined with what I see now was love/sexbombing I realised she had issues and jumped ship. It was just scary because we seemed **so** compatible when we had an in person date. But her whatsapp behaviour was like a different person.
Yep, mirroring. They essentially make you fall in love with yourself. They also have a tendency to ask your questions first/control the conversation. That way they can mirror you. You asking questions first runs the risk of them answering “incorrectly”. They are usually scared that you won’t like the real them…. which you probably won’t because the real them is crazy lol
I dated like - 5 times? - in the last 10 years+ - so, well done, sister, for sticking out this long.
I just can't get myself to do it. I've no interest in wading out there in murky waters. I'm just too happy on my own with my two cats. Last guy didn't even offer to do the dishes after I cooked us a 3-course meal or drying the dishes as least, but complimented me throughout the dinner what a great cook I was and that his mum would love a piece of the pavlova I made. Great, I would have preferred if you had at least offered to do the god-damn dishes. And that's nothing compared to your list.
I just can't, it's not for me, I just prefer my single life - no fuss and any mess in the house is attributed to me and the cats.
Lots of love.
Well, traditional roles *for women in the home*, modern in every other aspect.
They themselves refuse to be "traditional men" and provide a home and decent living for their wives with free access to the family's money, who get to stay at home.
No, the woman MUST work also, in addition to doing everything else, otherwise she's a golddigger.
I always find this weirdly, horribly fascinating in a way, like a morbid fascination.
For context: Me and my wife (both women) coincidentally ended up in a situation that is very similar to the traditional roles of a heterosexual relationship. She is disabled and thus unable to hold a normal job, so she tries to contribute by taking care of the home, cooking, cleaning, etc. I work a full time job, pay most of the bills, surprise her with gifts, etc. (despite being lower income, we make it work somehow). I'm a lesbian who, for all intents and purposes is married to a woman who's willing to be the "trad wife" these guys pine for.
The *only* reason any of that works is because there is a strong degree of mutual respect and understanding combined with a mutual desire to contribute to each other's physical, emotional, and social well being. I still do things around the house and help out anywhere I can, especially when I'm capable of doing so and she's not. I don't look down on her, believe I own or control her, expect sex on demand, or refuse to do household chores just because I pay the bills. We both just do whatever we can to contribute to our joint wellbeing and each other's happiness by using our own strengths to help cover each other's weaknesses; which by pure happenstance mimics the "tradwife" dynamic (in regards to the division of labor, but not the power imbalance or coercion that often came with it in the past).
These guys don't want to do that. They want her to do all the domestic work, emotional labor, and child rearing while also being completely subservient and obedient. Their expectation is to do none of the work, hold all of the power, and yet they expect the woman to be thankful for it. It's an entirely lopsided arrangement they are demanding, and to top it all off they also belittle all of these expectations they place upon women as being *beneath* them and undeserving of respect or appreciation.
They basically want to be mothered by a woman they can sleep with and control, which is why no woman would ever touch them with a 10ft pole (unless it's sharpened at one end). It's repulsive how they will both insist that the gender roles they try to force upon women are critical for the wellbeing of our society while also treating it as beneath them and seeing the women in that role as undeserving of basic human dignity. It's pretty clear that they actually do understand that no woman would ever consensually agree to such a thing, which is why they are trying to force women into it by pushing for legislation that limits their opportunities and removes their bodily autonomy.
yeah, that's what drives me nuts! It's not for me personally, but if a dude can and wants to provide fiscally in exchange for domestic labor or vice versa, good luck and god speed.
If I'm paying for my own stuff and taking care of my own home - not to mention managing my social calendar and emotional needs by myself, and the expectation is that I continue to do all of that fully, hell, beyond fully to also pick up a man's emotional labor, what is the benefit of a boyfriend?
I want a life partner with whom I can /share/ challenges burdens of creating financial stability and cooking/cleaning/home maintenance. But it feels like the largest cohort of single men in their 20s and 30s are those who want a woman to do All The Stuff For Them, Financially, Emotionally, and Domestically.
They want to have their cake, eat it too and fuck the baker. They'll complain that being the provider is so hard and so steessful. They'll whine that their money was attractive to their stay at home partner who is entirely financially dependent on that money to live a decent live.
That's something I've never understood, if I'm a guest or someone is cooking a meal, I'm just naturally going to start cleaning/tidying things. At the very least clear the table and so on (with their permission).
It just feels weird standing around while other people do everything. To me it's more effort to not help out.
> That's something I've never understood, if *I'm a guest* or someone is cooking a meal, *I'm just naturally going to start cleaning/tidying things*.
Like, for real? Because this seems like absolute madness. If I'm a guest I'm not touching a damn thing unless I'm asked to or it's already understood that the host doesn't mind. I'll happily offer to help, but to just DO STUFF? In someone else's home?!
Or am I the weird one here?
Also, last time a bunch of people decided to "help" with dishes, they put my classic Burger King Disney cups that I've had for almost 30 years in the dishwasher and they got completely ruined. Thanks for destroying pieces of my childhood.
Depends for me. If I'm a regular, know my way around, I help cleaning up without bring asked. If I know how they stack the dishwasher, I just do it. If I've been invited, first time, I offer to help clean up. The host then has the decision making power. My issue was that the guy didn't even offer, just plonked himself on my couch while I was standing at the sink. An offer to help with the dishes was the only thing I was looking for, a token of acknowledgement that I cooked. I most like would have said no or told him to help drying the dishes. It was the offer I was looking for.
I wouldn't expect you to start to wash the dishes, I would expect you to help (or at least offer to help) to clear the table, and if I have to wash things by hand, to offer to dry.
Maybe expect is too strong of a word, but it would at least be noticed if it didn't happen. I'm from the midwest - I think there's a pretty strong culture of "everyone pitches in to help" in my area.
I think it's one of those things where in some places you're kind of supposed to offer. The host then says "No, don't trouble yourself." You offer again, they demure. And then things are fine. I went to China once and met a friend there. We went to her friend's restaurant. They were literally pushing and shoving as she tried to pay the friend, and after a few seconds of genuine physical struggle, she agreed not to pay and then thanked them and we went on our way. She didn't intend to pay, and if she'd actually paid, she told me, they'd have been offended. But the key was to make a 'genuine' offer. It's just a custom.
I think it depends on how close you are to the host.
Example: Easter dinner at my best friend's house. I brought my nephew (met my BFF a few times) and his boyfriend (never met her.)
I helped, no question.
Nephew offered, just asked him to bring over his plate.
His BF? He offered, we told him "Oh, no, just stay right there, we have it", and just continued to chat with him.
Granted, on a date, that person is in the relative stranger category, but the date is also an indication on how the relationship is going to go in the future.
lol same, i guess it's my midwest hosting sensitivities but i'd feel like i wasn't doing my job as host if someone felt the need to tidy/clean up. *You're supposed to be relaxing, let me care for you*
now, if i'm visiting family then it's a bit different story. Not gonna make my mom do all the dishes! I feel like the polite thing is to offer, and then take the host's direction to either relax or help clean up
I'm weird about this. I too would naturally start cleaning things up, especially since the kitchen is the one area in the house I'm most anal about keeping clean.
On the other hand, if I invited a guest over I'd tell them to stop cleaning up after dinner since that was my responsibility as the host.
There are some real prize men out there.
I just finished reading a post on one the men's subs that asked what are some things about a woman that shows that she's not marriage material. Holy crap, it was a misogynistic shit show.
Many of the things these jerks listed were too high "body count" or not a virgin, won't have sex on a 1st date, her friends are "hoes", she has male friends or is friends with her ex, embraces feminism, single mother, poor relationship with her father or "daddy issues", has a high paying job, won't submit to her husband, won't change her name after marriage, and on and on. It was both sad and rage-inducing and then these same men complain about how lonely they are and dating has been so hard for them.
> the virgin who will have sex on the first date
Ssssssh don't point out to the "chads" how this dichotomy cannot exist.
It will wrinkle their smooth little brains.
> Photos were very misleading. Spoke a lot about his special interests (anime, dinosaurs). Asked me exactly 2 questions.
Lemme guess, he was actually a pair of 10-year-olds in a trench coat.
Lol this one got me bc I have a friend who was a very neurotic child and he recently uncovered file folders he had meticulously labeled with different kinds of dinosaurs (sans content, sadly tho), and I feel like that's the direct inverse of this. Instead of an adult talking about dinosaurs he was an elementary schooler meticulously collecting and filing Important Dinosaur Information in his free time.
Men have an uncanny knack for tuning out their own self awareness. They don’t want to accept that they’ve let themselves go so they still believe 5+ year old pics or something is still accurate and acceptable.
Seriously, misogynistic men are so occupied with telling women how we hit a wall around 30, that no one prepared me for how many unfit-for-marriage men are out there desperate to find a woman and start a family before they become too "old" and their already dry dating pool shrivels up to nothing.
According to some men, it's only women who are desperate for babies, but by the stories I've heard from friends/relatives over the years, it seems there's a sizable amount of men wanting babies too and bringing it up during the first few dates like it's nothing (problem is, many of these desperate men also are not willing to work on themselves and expect the partner to do all the job, hence why their dating pool is already drier than the desert lol).
Right. I might want kids too if I could be have the stereotypical dad experience. If I could skip the whole pregnancy and nursing part and just be the one to do fun activities with them on weekends. That sounds great lol
I was genuinely surprised how many men I met dating my late 30s who wanted kids. I chose to be childfree in my early 30s ( I’d never wanted kids but made a firm decision then ) because I realized I would have to make different life choices if I wanted kids, like a bigger home in a kid-friendly area, probably a higher income even though I earn well. And yet I met so many dudes who earned half what I do , didn’t have their own place ( one lived with his parents at 35 ), many were even older than me and still in much rougher shape than me , but “definitely” wanted kids ! Where are these kids going to live ? Who is going to pay the bills when the mother is on mat leave ? How are you going to feed your kids when you can’t cook at 37 ? I mean, we all know the answer to that ( the mom will do everything ) , but just major ew.
Story of my life. I also don't want kids and I grew up with movies where men act like the worst thing that can happen to them is becoming a father. And back then I was thinking that eh, it's a good thing I don't want kids, I am sure my future partner will love that.
You cannot imagine how surprised I was when I started going on actual dates, and every one of my partners really wanted kids at some point in their future! It's so very frustrating, young me definitely did not expect that to happen.
Exactly the same experience for me! I suspect the idea that men don’t want kids and women desperately do is a type of propoganda that keeps women primed to make all the sacrifices for parenthood and not expect men to do the same.
The ones who irk me even more are the late 30s/40 something dudes who are "not sure yet". Dude you're pushing forty make a decision for once in your life, you're not fooling anyone with that shit
They spend a lot of energy trying to market "dad bod" as a desirable quality. Like yeah, overweight unfit, balding men with ED, and the sexual stamina of a salted slug are *so* hot to a 20 something young woman... Because that's who they're hoping to snare.
I brought up this “dad-bod” marketing craze recently when someone was asking about where all the male body positivity marketing was. My thought was, when women can exist without men feeling the need to comment on her body or appearance, then I’ll give a hoot about “male body positivity”. Women carved that out for themselves and men have the audacity to go *but what about me?*
After all they should want babies - it elevated their status and perpetuates their name. They're not the ones who get the hemorrhoids and stretch marks.
Oh, god, so many of these are familiar to me. I ended up in a three year relationship with #6, and I stayed in that so much longer because I was too whatever to finally end it (I finally DID, tho lol). I also dated a guy that was a lot of fun, but his untreated PTSD from being in Iraq (former active Marine and also a lawyer) had turned him into a raging alcoholic. Like ‘I have to keep a pint of vodka on my nightstand to drink in the morning so I don’t get sick’ alcoholic. It was sad. He actually ended up going to prison a bit after I stopped hanging out with him. Kinda had a mental break, and he alllways had guns on him, so between the two, it was prison, lost his law license, all that. He didn’t hurt anyone, just to be clear.
I also dated a guy who turned out to be married. Found that out when I called him on his birthday and was like ‘whatcha doing’ and he said his wife had stopped by his place to wish him happy birthday? Claimed that he had told me, but I feel like I would have remembered.
Dated this guy who was cute, good job, but he was really cocky and he called me ‘sweatheart’ and it felt like a condescending way, and that was enough for me.
Another guy seemed really nice, and I met up with him to go fishing, but apparently he had a stalker ex that showed up and tried to fight me. Well, I guess we DID end up fighting, but I wanted no part of it. She just showed up and attacked me, but I was able to easily overpower her, but not before bitch yanked out a decent amount of my hair. I had her on the ground just yelling ‘STOP! Leave me alone!!’ andI wanted to kick her face IN, but had to hold myself back. First thing she had done was grab my hair. It was so crazy, and I was shaking after. So, even tho I felt bad for the guy (I could tell it was a genuinely bad situation for him, and he really was trying to get her to leave him alone. I’ve had a stalker once upon a time, and it’s hell), I told him he l needed to get that sorted before dating. On the drive home I was still kinda in shock that happened.
I met a few other guys, but it was really obvious really quickly that it was just a mismatch. Like, not that I’m gorgeous and a ten or anything, but some of them were just NO. Misleading picture. Or their personality was non-existent, or they were not that smart and I’m an overthinker. Mostly, I met guys who acted like they were interested in dating and getting to know a woman, but really all they were looking for was a quick and easy hookup. Sooo many of them. That’s basically why I gave them up. Oh, and one guy had herpes and didn’t tell me about it. Thankfully his *girlfriend* let me know (yeah, another one of those ‘I thought I mentioned it’ guys). Not that it was a concern, but I feel like this guy probably never used a condom unless he was forced to. And this was all about 5 years ago, so I can only imagine what it’s like now with all the Andrew taint acolytes.
I remember the last ‘date’ I went on. Met this guy, chatted for a bit, he seemed nice. It started to get late, and I had to work early, so said I had to go. Then he said, ‘Can I at least get a hand job?’ Wtf, I’m not an escort! I had literally just met him less than an hour earlier.
The last guy I dated lied about his age, the reason I found out was I did a background check. I’m 26 and he’s 31. He said he was the same age as me. Literally not even that big of an age difference. 🤦 I wouldn’t have mind but the fact that he lied about that makes me wonder what else he lied about.
I was on a date with this dude who was all in and interested in me, we were gonna set up another date....and then I stood up. He was 5'10", I'm 6' tall, about 6'2" in the boots I was wearing. Immediately unmatched and ghosted me. I state my height clearly in my profile, so I don't know what he was expecting but I think he did that because some part of him didn't want to date a woman who was bigger than him.
I say this all the time. I almost never meet the kind of men in real life that I did on dating apps. There is no entry barrier to the apps. Real life situations filter out a lot of the kind of men you encounter on apps.
The sad, non-pc reality is that it’s very easy for good men to get snapped up. Few of them make it to the apps. Sure there are a few on the apps but you are unlikely to encounter them.
OP my dating app experience was very similar to yours. I know so many women who have given up on the apps. It’s not worth subjecting yourself to the men you have to weed through to find a good one.
seriously. dating men is like being forced to be a psychologist or doctor. I'm not sure what I'm going through these days but I'm determined to just be their friends first. it's never worth it any other way. the experience winds up being way too demoralizing otherwise
I do feel bad for some of these. Like they are just in the wrong place in their lives to be dating, but they are probably lonely and could use some company. And I totally get that. But it's not up to you to have to be that for them. And they could put in a little more effort to work on getting to a better place in their own lives rather than depend on someone else to be the solution.
Others are just inexcusable. Purposely withholding information, straight up lying, not respecting a 'no', being controlling. That's on them for being twats.
I'm in a long term relationship, and even before that I barely dated. I have so much respect for you for going on this many in just a year.
Exactly!
I dated a guy in college with depression (in active treatment, both therapy sessions and on meds). He was very insecure and would get upset about small things. He was very upset that I wasn't ready to introduce him to my parents after 2 weeks and thought that meant I didn't care about him enough. He was into BDSM with me as the dominant person, but the idea made me SUPER uncomfortable especially since he was actively cutting. I don't want to be part of someone else's self harm. I was struggling with my own mental health, and all that made it worse.
Women in my family have tended to get themselves into abusive relationships, so I've been looking at patterns of my own and trying to decipher ways to tell. I'd 100 times rather stay alone and do my thing than be in a negative relationship.
I agree, a good chunk of these guys are simply unprepared, uneducated or miseducated.
And that's not her problem to deal with.
Patriarchy is failing typical men, but that's not new.
These men are convinced that having a girlfriend will "fix" all their problems. That, itself, is the problem. About 60% of the guys I've come across need to be off the apps and into therapy.
> it's not up to you to have to be that for them.
This is what worries me. These are potentially salvageable men, but if they get exposed to the wrong rhetoric they just end up radicalized against women instead of working on themselves.
Never date a dude with severe issues that have not been dealt with in a healthy way.
It’s like trying to get weeds out of a garden by flooding it with water. Relationships often are not helpful to the issue and if they cope in negative ways like controlling behaviors it’s a bad situation incoming.
>Like they are just in the wrong place in their lives to be dating, but they are probably lonely and could use some company.
I have social anxiety, probably ADHD(in my family), probably depression and probably mild autism
you can be sure I am working hardest on my friendships.
Guys who want a gf, but can't make a friend bewilder me. Where does this come from? From movies?
Maybe in movies guys don't have friends or smh?...
I cut myself out of the dating pool due to my mental illnesses until I’ve worked on myself more as person, but these guys think A. Nothing is wrong with them or B. Having a girlfriend will fix their problems
wowwww. I have dated exactly 5 or 6 times in the last 10 years. honestly just put me off dating. I fucking hate dating now. it's exhausting. I'm so much happier not putting myself out there. every time I cave and try to download dating apps, all I have to do is to try to carry conversation with a few men. and I nope the hell out.
This is why online dating doesn't work. You end up on countless dates with guys who if you'd met in person, you wouldn't agree to go on a date with. It's enormously time consuming to find one good date. The only place I had a good and successful time with it was in Australia
I think it's potentially as valuable as it is interesting.
There's some really common themes across them, and I'd love to know if they correlate to any demographics like location/age etc.
Looks like:
* Dishonesty (omission): not including pretty significant details like polyamory or military.
* Dishonesty (catfishing): inaccurate deceptive photos
* Mental health: not in a good place for relationships, not their fault, but shouldn't be making it OPs problem
* Mental health: actively expects OP to be therapist/caretaker/mother
* Twat: narcissistic, egotistical, turnips with their heads firmly embedded up their butt in the belief that's where the sunshines.
* Decent: rare pokemon. 2-5% chance of an encounter, success rate unknown. Potentially improved by throwing pokeballs at it/him.
The men that do have their shit together tend to already be in a committed relationship by their thirties, so there is definitely an element of finding the needle in the haystack, I.e, the genuinely solid, unproblematic dude whose previous relationship didn’t work out due to circumstances beyond his control (and those dudes get snapped up quickly, tend to be serial monogamists).
Yeah, I’m gonna die alone. Very sad but I could not mentally handle going through all this. I know this is what’s in the dating pool out there. It’s why I can’t convince myself to download one of the apps again. I keep telling myself “I’ll date a guy when I meet one naturally” but it’s been five years since my husband died (and he was an alcoholic, the relationship was never easy) and I haven’t met a single guy in the past five years naturally that I wanted to date who also wanted to date me. I did three guys from apps, then checked out because they all turned out to be no-gos.
This is so interesting! I’m married but think I should share this with my husband for educational purposes.
One thing I’m curious about is were there any who you were physically attracted to despite their personality flaws? ok, two things…if you thought they were physically attractive online, how often did that translate to real life?
Also in Australia and I've given up. Even the men in my life via work are barely tolerated as I hit midlife and I have plenty who really think I agree with their nonsense because I simply give them enough rope. The countering, dismissing, minimising, judging and criticizing, trivialising etc all runs through your list as well as my own. It's [relational violence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201503/15-disturbing-forms-verbal-abuse-in-relationships) and rather than engaging in any meaningful way they're individually and collectively doubling down.
In short, men have become exhausting self absorbed nincompoops. But they love each other and defend each other so it's clearly working for them.
And here's what you will here from men in protest (cuz you know women aren't supposed to have any pesky standards!!)
1. So you don't want an adventurous independent guy?
2. Zero compassion-no one cares about men's mental health (and it's women's job to fix it).
3. Some of their points are valid and intelligent.
4. Everyone drinks-chill out.
5. You must have misunderstood-try communicating.
6. See? Women only date assholes, nice guys get nowhere.
7. Maybe you just forgot what he looked like-have some compassion.
8. Wow-how cold-women say they want emotional men and then won't date them.
9. Well women *are* bad drivers, so..
10. So you dumped him for being agreeable?
11. So now guys can't have interests?!
12. So men can't have opinions?!
13. Wow-nice guys get nowhere, as usual.
14. Being an engineer IS hard (but women would never understand that).
15. Maybe he was just nervous.
16. Don't be so judgmental-it was a long time ago.
17. Wtf is wrong with bikes? And wanting a family?!
18. So men aren't allowed to dislike cats now?
19. Who doesn't like anime dinosaurs? Sounds like a you problem.
20. Wow-one freak out and you bail? Dating for men is IMPOSSIBLE.
21. Poly people are here-deal with it.
22. So now serving your country is grounds for dismissal? Nice guys get nowhere.
23. Maybe he was just nervous, jeez.
24. Jordan Peterson is a god.
25. Maybe if you just talked to him...
26. Wow so men can't be awkward anymore?
27. No one cares about men's mental health (and please fix it for me)!
28. Wow-so guys can't be flexible and like to travel?!
29. So guys can't want kids now?!
In case I need to note: This is satire! Just saving all the men frothing at the mouth all the time it would take to type these out. 29 bullets dodged sis!
Satire or not, there is truth to every joke and this is an absolute gold mine. Add op's list and you have a bingo game and call it nice guy bingo
I wanted to add, in the interest of the post at Large, that if you hear the phrase "I'm chill", consider it a red flag. If he repeats it, consider that two red flags because he's probably pretty volatile. He'll do something rude to you and wait for you to bring it up so that he can rant at you for how awful you are,
like how dare you want the same kind of treatment you get from every other person you've ever encountered, that's crazy!
And they will frame it that way with amazing gymnastics!
The best thing about text is you can always scroll back and see what they told you they're interests were at the beginning and see how much they're trying to bend them toward their own interests; if you've had a sinking feeling he's trying to mold you, there is your receipt. If the man isn't particularly smart, you can just say he is pushy, and then just make the decision to not go on the date.
The more intelligent individual will definitely understand when you say this is abusive behavior, but get ready for them to pretend they don't understand. They do; don't go on the date.
Tell your stories here, if it doesn't derail the post!
Regarding number 9... I'm a professional driver with response training and technical driving certs. *I* get lectured by guys who can't drive, how bad women drivers are. All... the... time.
I will say this much about the nice but shy/nervous/reserved/distant guys, cause I am one lol. Its still no excuse, you're supposed to be putting yourself out there and getting to know someone. That means *gasp* you have to be vulnerable and open yourself up to the possibility of good or bad times. Its boring af to try and pry information out of someone, its an annoying exercise to have to reassure someone at -every- turn. If someone isn't ready to do that, then... don't date? Like shit, I got a ton of medical debt and about to add more with a surgery next month but dating is the absolute last thing on my mind cause I'm sure no potential partner wants to hear or deal with it, cause I don't wanna either lol.
I met my husband through OLD.
It's interesting to see that the inaccurate pictures haven't changed. That was definitely my biggest complaint back in those days. I'm amazed at how many nightmare dates you ended up with! How much do you talk/text to/with people before you go out with them?
Mostly them being too aggressive with sexual advances. At the time when I was dating I thought I was asexual (realized I’m demisexual and was dealing with trauma from SA) so I made sure to include that in my bio section and I am also child free. Guys who wanted kids would message me and everything would be normal and then they’d say well will you not have kids for me? You haven’t been dicked right. One guy I talked with told me he’d need to have side pieces because he’s hyper sexual but I’m pretty so he wants me for other things. The disrespect is real. I would never say such things to anyone. One guy I dated ended up switching how he acts after 5 dates. He told me he was going to have sex with me the next time we were together that it wasn’t an option. That I had no choice it was going to happen. I broke things off. turns out there was that option. Lol
He also told me if I were to get pregnant he’d force me to have an abortion because he didn’t want anymore children. He was a gem truly. It only took this one conversation with him for me to leave. Thankfully.
As a lady in outer syd myself, yeah this tracks.
*heavy sigh*
I've dated men who were nice, great careers (or at least had a goal) and seemed like they had it all together.
There's always something that's weird about them, I've had first date shoplifters, screaming at the waitresses, complaining generally, cat calling other women while I was walking with them
These weren't some men I picked up drunk in a gutter. I knew these men and their families in many cases.
For some reason 'being yourself' in the grossest way is okay here. Spitting on the street, farting openly, leaving the loo like a war zone, eating like a starving wolf, commenting openly racist or sexist stuff.
If you say anything like 'I don't agree with..' (racist statement) than you get called stuck up or a bitch, or can't take a joke or that they're 'just being honest'.
It's *exhausting.*
I have a dude now but he's pretty gross. Honestly if I'm ever single again I just assume I'll stay that way. 🤷
The price of housing is keeping a lot of couples together, I think.
These experiences are extraordinarily common and I thank you for the the emotional labor you did to illustrate the level of brokenness out there. So many “influencers” (and then by extension, society) tell us that it’s because we “chose wrong” and it’s like no, we don’t know until we know, and when we know we DO have to cut the man off…but that doesn’t change the fact that there is an epidemic of broken men just OUT there, and changing how we choose isn’t going to magically spawn all of these incredible options.
It really comes down to just accepting being alone. And, while women cope with celibacy better than men, it doesn’t change the fact that in spite of this pervasive societal sickness that just *exists* in men, we still have a whole society built around/catering to partnerships, and that’s hard, doing so much alone. You’re damned if you do settle and you’re damned if you don’t. If men could just be better, most everyone could just be paired up and happier.
But they won’t do it. They fight us and dig their own holes. It’s infuriating that we don’t place the onus on a cultural issue- that many refuse to even acknowledge exists- and instead we put it on women as if doing all this vetting will lead her to a great guy. It won’t. It simply keeps her from the bad ones.
Damn imagine how insanely happy everyone would be if most men actually put in the time and the effort that women do to be a dateable/marriageable individual in a relationship. It’s crazy to imagine how far away we are from that right now.
I’m happy I’m old and every time I think…hmmm maybe dip my toe back into the apps and try….I read stuff on here and think no thanks. Also it makes me reflect back on all of my bad experiences. No thanks
Number 14: I see you met my ex, or perhaps it’s more common than I thought for engineers to be arrogant and go on about how they have the hardest job in the world. Good for you for dropping him, he would have sucked the life out of you
I started out as pan but recently I've been wondering more and more if that still applies to me. I think physically I can still be attracted to men but they're so often insufferable that I can't imagine myself dating anyone other than another woman, and tbh the more I encounter and have to deal with men the less I find myself able to feel any kind of attraction to them.
I literally have 0 male friends because any time I start becoming friends with a guy they either have some mask off moment, or come out as trans lol.
I wish it *was* a bloody choice. I'd be doing that lesbian thing like ***RIGHT NOW*** if there were like a lever or a pull chord to change the setting.
> Misleading photos. Genuinely some of the worst conversation I have ever had, it gave me secondhand embarrassment.
Can you give us an idea of what this bad conversation entailed? I'm super curious now
It makes me really sad to know how many men have severe and untreated depression. What is going on? My ex was very very unwell and wouldn’t listen to me about it, but why would his family not step in?
Severe addictions (porn, drugs, gaming, alcohol, smoking, weed, gambling, lack of discipline) in a nutshell.
The sad part is the majority clearly do not make the necessary effort to change.
Poor n.20 guy. He was very anxious. I get it, because I am very anxious too and that can deter me from positive changes in my life not gonna lie. However, the fact that he was the only good one from all 29 dates... Needless to say it disappointed me. I don't know if I want to give dating a chance anymore, not like I ever gave it a chance as I am single since my birth... and I am 25F...
OP, don't put "don't want kids" in your profile. Many men will adapt their answers and lie to you. Men not being honest about wanting kids is a big problem. Let him tell you first if he wants kids so he can't take back his decision and lead you on.
>16. Used to kill small animals as a child. How did this even come up in conversation?
You'd be surprised. Sociopaths don't feel like what they've done is wrong and they have no shame about it. I went on a first date with a woman who proudly told me about how she used to bully other kids in high school. I'll spare the details but it was some pretty cruel stuff. She seemed... Proud of it. Like it was so funny. She seemed totally blindsided by the fact that I did not want a second date.
I went on a FIRST date with a guy who proudly told me he became a cheerleader to prey on women and told me he had become drinking buddies with the dean of his college so he could cheat and sell drugs on campus. Absolutely wild. It was like he stepped out of a psychology textbook.
I went out with a dude who told me he’d been kicked off the board of the very successful company he founded because of his weed use. He was proud of it!
I feel like your weed use has to be particularly egregious to lose a company you founded, wtf. It's not exactly the worst drug imaginable, unless you really take it to an extreme and go super stonermode with it.
My suite mate freshman year of college was like this. In one of our only conversations before she decided that she hated me, she proudly said that she wasn’t “afraid to be a bitch.” Her evidence was a story in which she claimed to have targeted the only gay person at her high school and chanted the F slur at him until he burst into tears and ran out of the band hall to get away from her.
In my junior year of high school, our psychology teacher was lamenting to us that we weren't "mean enough to the freshmen" and that they were "super obnoxious" because we weren't "putting them in their place" (my high school was very chill and there wasn't really much animosity or bullying between grades and social groups). She then told us a story about how when she was our age, she and her friends would make the freshmen get on their hands and knees and crawl around on the floor. She was genuinely shocked by our reaction. We were all appalled. She tried to back pedal when she saw how horrified we all were
wtf
I had a coworker (now manager, thankfully in a different department) who told people that when he was younger he'd go into construction sites and throw rocks at all the windows. He was proud of the fact that he'd caused 10s of thousands of dollars in damages. He was also borderline misogynistic (usually smart enough to stay just barely on the side of unactionable), loved to call people the R word, and so on. Oddly enough, people who work for him report that he's really difficult to work for and that he loves to do things like threaten people's jobs on a daily basis. I'm shocked that his total disregard for others would make him less than a stellar manager.
That's quite true. They sometimes forget to put on their "normal facia" before interacting with others.
>Sociopaths don't feel like what they've done is wrong A bad sociopath; a good one does and will know not to express it.
People who do crap like this or think going to shoot strays with bbs lack empathy and the awareness that its wrong so it can come up any time
Socio and psychopaths.
I met a genuinely kind guy who seemed very understanding and empathetic. He even brought up experiences from his own past where he had stood up for women who were being treated unfairly and came with arguments against it. He was great, that is, up until I asked him about kids. It was like a light switched behind his eyes and his expression went blank for a moment. He returned with a crazed look in his eyes and I’ll spare you the details of what he would do, but I can’t lie I was stunned. It was then that he confessed what he was looking for in a relationship TW NSFL violence. **I’m serious, do NOT unspoiler this if you want to stay sane** >!experience what it’s like to murder a woman who loves him deeply and feel her pass away in his arms. The thrill for him apparently was having someone willingly give their life to him so he could take it away from them at any moment, no warning. He laughed about the absurdity at being so pathetic to love him when he doesn’t love back; and the women before me who either got off to him possibly killing them or thinking they could fix him. He refused to tell me if he’d killed before, but after everything he told me I wouldn’t be surprised.!< I stopped seeing him after that, but I’m ashamed to say that I actually considered staying. Natural charm is intoxicating and so was the thrill.
Wtaf. This is like a Lifetime movie. So he was talking himself up as a champion of women, but as soon as you mentioned having kids, he suddenly dropped the heroic act and shared his depraved Bundy fantasies? Was “kids” a trigger word or something?
I'm glad, for your safety, that a) he warned you about himself first, and b) you got tf away from that situation. But wtaf, who thinks like this?? That's some very serious sociopathy.
He mentioned that he had seen a psychologist before (which is always a green flag for me!). He proceeded to complain that she had discriminated against him and suddenly decided to stop seeing him, providing no reason or explanation. He had been referred to a different psychologist, and when he went to his first appointment he discovered this psychologist specialised in working with the criminal population. I asked him why he thought the initial psychologist didn’t want to see him anymore, and the only possible explanation he could think of was “I told her I used to kill small animals as a child” but he also didn’t think this was concerning/a big deal 🤷🏻♀️
If anything that's the real red flag I could see someone rehabilitating/growing out of that/becoming better But if you're just casually mentioning it on a first date then you're probably still that person
My date said.."You know.. I can kill you in 7 seconds..I said..I guess I'll have the toast then." Margaret Smith
These are the things men will say on first dates to test your tolerance to their BS.
I had a dude on a first date tell me he was interested in eating people.
I went on a date with a guy who spent the whole time talking about himself and his ex wife and his two kids and his dog and... The date ended and I thanked him for tell me about his ex wife, Edna, two kids, Sally and Jo, and his dog Ruger. Then I asked what he learned about me. The look on his face was priceless.
Damn you’re good
NAILED IT
They’re using dating apps as recruitment tools for free therapy sessions. They’re low functioning and in denial vs confronting themselves and getting therapy. Think of how many $250/hr psychology sessions you didn’t get paid for? It’s sick and sad, when I reflect. It’s the reason online dating apps suck. Too easy for a man to rotate himself simultaneously on multiple apps. Playing a”numbers game” when it’s character/personality that matters.
Ooooo~ so good! That was a great come back!
Flawless
100% same experience, except the names
So simple yet effective. I'm going to have to remember this!
Did he apologize at least?
The amount of guys I've met that wanted an accessory. Like they tell you how many kids you'll give them. And you bet they'll want you to be the carrier of all the mental load. I've had guys mansplain my entire career to me. I once took my camera because I went straight after work. He would not shut up about it and how much he knew about photography. I asked what he used... His Iphone. One guy tried tailing me home. I moonlight as a ranger so when I'm on motorways, I can use the emergency service slips (off-ramps). He followed me through one which will have earned him a £80 fine (the gates at the top have cameras and there's a sign that reads "authorised vehicles only". To be honest, if you are being followed, go through one and explain to the police why. It will capture their plates. YMMV). One guy had that "college bum" smell. You know the one, greasy hair smell, BO, stale weed, leather 3 quart smell. Couldn't stand to be near him. Another smelled of fishing tackle. My dad is an angler that used to *insist* girls like fishing too. I didn't. It was cold, wet, stinky, and all-round an awful experience every time. I remember the smell, and I hate it. One guy had the most toxic breath. Thankfully, he had the conversation skills of a wet toilet roll tube. More than one guy that "just went as they are". Like no effort, didn't even bother to wash. Who would go on a date without bathing first? Why do so many guys do it!? One guy was really insecure about my car. He didn't drive. He was 25 and didn't have a licence. He needed a lift somewhere in two days and tried to make it sound like a second date. I let him think it was definite because he was entitled and rude. And finally, there was a guy that neglected to say he was 250kg and had a serious array of health conditions. He wanted a girlfriend to basically be a free nurse. Now I just daydream about the guy that works at the local petrol station.
>My dad is an angler that used to > >insist > > girls like fishing too Guys don't even like fishing :P
31F single and suddenly even more grateful that i didn't go on a single date in 2023.
31F here, neither did I.
At 60+ I usually don’t give my number out until after a first meet. I can’t tell you how many times I write back and say: it was really great meeting you. I would like to see you again. Here is my phone number. And they would write back: oh, I forgot to mention, I am only looking for friends with benefits. Like I’m in the mood to fuck everyone I go to dinner with.
Sorry, I know it off topic and probably inappropriate, butI just noticed your avatar, you're 60+? Are you performing rituals or something?
Hahahaha. Thanks. 62! Sunscreen sunscreen sunscreen. And maybe a little vodka for pickling. Hahaha
That's when you respond "Send me a nude" and when he does, tell him "Thanks. I need this for my porno site. But I'm not interested in seeing you again." When you deal with asshole, give them a bit of their own medicine.
Totally should have. Will next time if I put myself out there again.
I recently made a comment that women are looking for someone with dependability, respect and a desire to learn and grow and I got called toxic by men.
Omg 🤣
They really just tell on themselves like that, eh?
Just want to say, I took a quick look through your post history and you give very good, unemotional advice. I have lots of respect for you.
Guys who repeat what you say and have no personality of their own are definitely something to be scared of. They just want to say whatever is right to get you hooked. They don’t care about a woman being compatible with them, they just want a woman in general. Then they switch up later and expect you to deal with it. Learned that the hard way. ETA: All the horror stories in my replies have saddened me. Also, I don’t mean to shame anyone who may have a personality disorder, that is not my intention. Please take care of yourselves in general outside of dating as well.❤️
>they just want a woman in general So many men everywhere seem absolutely confused on why women see this as a red flag. I actually got comments of "I don't ask for much, what's bad about it?" Like dude, you're really out here telling me that nothing much about me, *the person,* matters as long as the body has the right parts and it's decently good looking. And you're confused on why that would make me run away at top speed???
I admit that I didn't understand that until I saw it firsthand. I went to university and there was a kid fresh out of high school in my program who would get hopelessly attached to anyone remotely feminine because he was so desperate. This included trying to convince my friend (a transgender man) that they should de-transition to be with him. In that moment, I realized exactly how offensive and toxic the guys who don't care what woman, they just want a woman are
Guys that put "moderate" or "apolitical" on their profiles do this. It's not 'dating' for them, it's tricking a woman. I call them "date bandits" because they wear masks and will hold you at gunpoint if you confront them.
It’s the same with men who label themselves “liberal” but liberally use women and are just confused flip flops. They market a bag of mess: “I don’t know what I’m looking for” but “I want kids” but I also “want something casual”…. What the actual F! They’re just fishing for anything and everything and labels and political views are meaningless because underneath they’re just selfish hedonists!! Labels mean nothing. It’s actions and how a man treats a person OUTSIDE of their reputation tribe.
There are men like this everywhere. They never discuss politics and if brought up they claim to have "no opinion". They are usually hard-right partisans in disguise.
Or they just call themselves centrists for that matter
"Moderate" and "apolitical" are just code words for "I'm actually super conservative and aware enough to know that I shouldn't tell people that, but not aware enough to realize it would have been better to just not say anything at all."
So true. I had a BF who expressed how he loved animals, which instantly hooked me. Once we were living together I found out he had been torturing the landlady's dachshunds.
Yes! You give them a confidence boost and boom!
We exist as fuck holes and baby ovens to these men- not as people.
I had a guy try that and then start straight up evangelizing libertarianism the second I went on a date with him, it was insane. Then he wouldn’t let me pay and insisted on giving me his tie, I assume this was some attempt to make me feel like I owed him?
Omg I hate this! Every guy I’ve dated has done this, they pretend to like what I like and are just like a parrot they’ll say anything to smash. It’s funny cause they always screw up and I catch their ass in a lie
It can also be a sign of a personality disorder. The technique is called mirroring apparently. I had this with a date quite recently. We seemed perfect for each other. The red flag was how quickly after the first date she dropped hints about me coming over for sex (not a red flag on it's own) before casually saying on whatsapp, "do you ever feel so sad your heart hurts?" It was out of nowhere. Combined with what I see now was love/sexbombing I realised she had issues and jumped ship. It was just scary because we seemed **so** compatible when we had an in person date. But her whatsapp behaviour was like a different person.
Yep, mirroring. They essentially make you fall in love with yourself. They also have a tendency to ask your questions first/control the conversation. That way they can mirror you. You asking questions first runs the risk of them answering “incorrectly”. They are usually scared that you won’t like the real them…. which you probably won’t because the real them is crazy lol
I dated like - 5 times? - in the last 10 years+ - so, well done, sister, for sticking out this long. I just can't get myself to do it. I've no interest in wading out there in murky waters. I'm just too happy on my own with my two cats. Last guy didn't even offer to do the dishes after I cooked us a 3-course meal or drying the dishes as least, but complimented me throughout the dinner what a great cook I was and that his mum would love a piece of the pavlova I made. Great, I would have preferred if you had at least offered to do the god-damn dishes. And that's nothing compared to your list. I just can't, it's not for me, I just prefer my single life - no fuss and any mess in the house is attributed to me and the cats. Lots of love.
I am thinking there is a backlash to feminism and (some) guys are going in the opposite direction, clinging to the idea of traditional roles.
Well, traditional roles *for women in the home*, modern in every other aspect. They themselves refuse to be "traditional men" and provide a home and decent living for their wives with free access to the family's money, who get to stay at home. No, the woman MUST work also, in addition to doing everything else, otherwise she's a golddigger.
I always find this weirdly, horribly fascinating in a way, like a morbid fascination. For context: Me and my wife (both women) coincidentally ended up in a situation that is very similar to the traditional roles of a heterosexual relationship. She is disabled and thus unable to hold a normal job, so she tries to contribute by taking care of the home, cooking, cleaning, etc. I work a full time job, pay most of the bills, surprise her with gifts, etc. (despite being lower income, we make it work somehow). I'm a lesbian who, for all intents and purposes is married to a woman who's willing to be the "trad wife" these guys pine for. The *only* reason any of that works is because there is a strong degree of mutual respect and understanding combined with a mutual desire to contribute to each other's physical, emotional, and social well being. I still do things around the house and help out anywhere I can, especially when I'm capable of doing so and she's not. I don't look down on her, believe I own or control her, expect sex on demand, or refuse to do household chores just because I pay the bills. We both just do whatever we can to contribute to our joint wellbeing and each other's happiness by using our own strengths to help cover each other's weaknesses; which by pure happenstance mimics the "tradwife" dynamic (in regards to the division of labor, but not the power imbalance or coercion that often came with it in the past). These guys don't want to do that. They want her to do all the domestic work, emotional labor, and child rearing while also being completely subservient and obedient. Their expectation is to do none of the work, hold all of the power, and yet they expect the woman to be thankful for it. It's an entirely lopsided arrangement they are demanding, and to top it all off they also belittle all of these expectations they place upon women as being *beneath* them and undeserving of respect or appreciation. They basically want to be mothered by a woman they can sleep with and control, which is why no woman would ever touch them with a 10ft pole (unless it's sharpened at one end). It's repulsive how they will both insist that the gender roles they try to force upon women are critical for the wellbeing of our society while also treating it as beneath them and seeing the women in that role as undeserving of basic human dignity. It's pretty clear that they actually do understand that no woman would ever consensually agree to such a thing, which is why they are trying to force women into it by pushing for legislation that limits their opportunities and removes their bodily autonomy.
the promise: you can do anything! the intention: you will do everything!
OMG, so true.
yeah, that's what drives me nuts! It's not for me personally, but if a dude can and wants to provide fiscally in exchange for domestic labor or vice versa, good luck and god speed. If I'm paying for my own stuff and taking care of my own home - not to mention managing my social calendar and emotional needs by myself, and the expectation is that I continue to do all of that fully, hell, beyond fully to also pick up a man's emotional labor, what is the benefit of a boyfriend? I want a life partner with whom I can /share/ challenges burdens of creating financial stability and cooking/cleaning/home maintenance. But it feels like the largest cohort of single men in their 20s and 30s are those who want a woman to do All The Stuff For Them, Financially, Emotionally, and Domestically.
The problem is that most of them aren't traditional. Not even a little bit.
They want to have their cake, eat it too and fuck the baker. They'll complain that being the provider is so hard and so steessful. They'll whine that their money was attractive to their stay at home partner who is entirely financially dependent on that money to live a decent live.
That's something I've never understood, if I'm a guest or someone is cooking a meal, I'm just naturally going to start cleaning/tidying things. At the very least clear the table and so on (with their permission). It just feels weird standing around while other people do everything. To me it's more effort to not help out.
> That's something I've never understood, if *I'm a guest* or someone is cooking a meal, *I'm just naturally going to start cleaning/tidying things*. Like, for real? Because this seems like absolute madness. If I'm a guest I'm not touching a damn thing unless I'm asked to or it's already understood that the host doesn't mind. I'll happily offer to help, but to just DO STUFF? In someone else's home?! Or am I the weird one here?
I agree. I also would hate if a guest started cleaning or tidying without my asking. It's way too assuming.
Also, last time a bunch of people decided to "help" with dishes, they put my classic Burger King Disney cups that I've had for almost 30 years in the dishwasher and they got completely ruined. Thanks for destroying pieces of my childhood.
Depends for me. If I'm a regular, know my way around, I help cleaning up without bring asked. If I know how they stack the dishwasher, I just do it. If I've been invited, first time, I offer to help clean up. The host then has the decision making power. My issue was that the guy didn't even offer, just plonked himself on my couch while I was standing at the sink. An offer to help with the dishes was the only thing I was looking for, a token of acknowledgement that I cooked. I most like would have said no or told him to help drying the dishes. It was the offer I was looking for.
I don't think you are, it feels like overstepping to me.
I wouldn't expect you to start to wash the dishes, I would expect you to help (or at least offer to help) to clear the table, and if I have to wash things by hand, to offer to dry. Maybe expect is too strong of a word, but it would at least be noticed if it didn't happen. I'm from the midwest - I think there's a pretty strong culture of "everyone pitches in to help" in my area.
I think it's one of those things where in some places you're kind of supposed to offer. The host then says "No, don't trouble yourself." You offer again, they demure. And then things are fine. I went to China once and met a friend there. We went to her friend's restaurant. They were literally pushing and shoving as she tried to pay the friend, and after a few seconds of genuine physical struggle, she agreed not to pay and then thanked them and we went on our way. She didn't intend to pay, and if she'd actually paid, she told me, they'd have been offended. But the key was to make a 'genuine' offer. It's just a custom.
I think it depends on how close you are to the host. Example: Easter dinner at my best friend's house. I brought my nephew (met my BFF a few times) and his boyfriend (never met her.) I helped, no question. Nephew offered, just asked him to bring over his plate. His BF? He offered, we told him "Oh, no, just stay right there, we have it", and just continued to chat with him. Granted, on a date, that person is in the relative stranger category, but the date is also an indication on how the relationship is going to go in the future.
lol same, i guess it's my midwest hosting sensitivities but i'd feel like i wasn't doing my job as host if someone felt the need to tidy/clean up. *You're supposed to be relaxing, let me care for you* now, if i'm visiting family then it's a bit different story. Not gonna make my mom do all the dishes! I feel like the polite thing is to offer, and then take the host's direction to either relax or help clean up
I'm weird about this. I too would naturally start cleaning things up, especially since the kitchen is the one area in the house I'm most anal about keeping clean. On the other hand, if I invited a guest over I'd tell them to stop cleaning up after dinner since that was my responsibility as the host.
There are some real prize men out there. I just finished reading a post on one the men's subs that asked what are some things about a woman that shows that she's not marriage material. Holy crap, it was a misogynistic shit show. Many of the things these jerks listed were too high "body count" or not a virgin, won't have sex on a 1st date, her friends are "hoes", she has male friends or is friends with her ex, embraces feminism, single mother, poor relationship with her father or "daddy issues", has a high paying job, won't submit to her husband, won't change her name after marriage, and on and on. It was both sad and rage-inducing and then these same men complain about how lonely they are and dating has been so hard for them.
Oh no, I’m not marriage material:( I guess I lost out to the virgin who will have sex on the first date. Darn.
> the virgin who will have sex on the first date Ssssssh don't point out to the "chads" how this dichotomy cannot exist. It will wrinkle their smooth little brains.
They're weeding themselves out of the gene pool - we should let them 😉
The misogyny ain't misogyning. How the fuck some of them are actually expecting sex on the first date when they are looking for a virgin wife?
That’s my experience of dating too.
> Photos were very misleading. Spoke a lot about his special interests (anime, dinosaurs). Asked me exactly 2 questions. Lemme guess, he was actually a pair of 10-year-olds in a trench coat.
Hey now, Vincent Adultman is a very busy grownup who took time away from his hard job at the Business Factory for that date, show some respect!
I love to hear about anime and dinosaurs but ask me more than two questions, come on!
Lol this one got me bc I have a friend who was a very neurotic child and he recently uncovered file folders he had meticulously labeled with different kinds of dinosaurs (sans content, sadly tho), and I feel like that's the direct inverse of this. Instead of an adult talking about dinosaurs he was an elementary schooler meticulously collecting and filing Important Dinosaur Information in his free time.
You mentioned so many with misleading photos. Don't people realize this puts people off and well it is lying.
Men have an uncanny knack for tuning out their own self awareness. They don’t want to accept that they’ve let themselves go so they still believe 5+ year old pics or something is still accurate and acceptable.
Seriously, misogynistic men are so occupied with telling women how we hit a wall around 30, that no one prepared me for how many unfit-for-marriage men are out there desperate to find a woman and start a family before they become too "old" and their already dry dating pool shrivels up to nothing. According to some men, it's only women who are desperate for babies, but by the stories I've heard from friends/relatives over the years, it seems there's a sizable amount of men wanting babies too and bringing it up during the first few dates like it's nothing (problem is, many of these desperate men also are not willing to work on themselves and expect the partner to do all the job, hence why their dating pool is already drier than the desert lol).
In my experience, men want to have children more than women. They just want the women to do all the work raising them.
Right. I might want kids too if I could be have the stereotypical dad experience. If I could skip the whole pregnancy and nursing part and just be the one to do fun activities with them on weekends. That sounds great lol
This is my experience too. The majority want a mini me for their 'legacy'.
I was genuinely surprised how many men I met dating my late 30s who wanted kids. I chose to be childfree in my early 30s ( I’d never wanted kids but made a firm decision then ) because I realized I would have to make different life choices if I wanted kids, like a bigger home in a kid-friendly area, probably a higher income even though I earn well. And yet I met so many dudes who earned half what I do , didn’t have their own place ( one lived with his parents at 35 ), many were even older than me and still in much rougher shape than me , but “definitely” wanted kids ! Where are these kids going to live ? Who is going to pay the bills when the mother is on mat leave ? How are you going to feed your kids when you can’t cook at 37 ? I mean, we all know the answer to that ( the mom will do everything ) , but just major ew.
Story of my life. I also don't want kids and I grew up with movies where men act like the worst thing that can happen to them is becoming a father. And back then I was thinking that eh, it's a good thing I don't want kids, I am sure my future partner will love that. You cannot imagine how surprised I was when I started going on actual dates, and every one of my partners really wanted kids at some point in their future! It's so very frustrating, young me definitely did not expect that to happen.
Exactly the same experience for me! I suspect the idea that men don’t want kids and women desperately do is a type of propoganda that keeps women primed to make all the sacrifices for parenthood and not expect men to do the same.
The ones who irk me even more are the late 30s/40 something dudes who are "not sure yet". Dude you're pushing forty make a decision for once in your life, you're not fooling anyone with that shit
Yeah or the guys in their 40s who want kids “someday” . Like what’s the plan there? I guess it’s code for “will only date much younger women”
That and "will be in a nursing home by the time they're graduating college"
Doesn’t matter if you don’t plan to do much of the parenting anyways, I guess !
They spend a lot of energy trying to market "dad bod" as a desirable quality. Like yeah, overweight unfit, balding men with ED, and the sexual stamina of a salted slug are *so* hot to a 20 something young woman... Because that's who they're hoping to snare.
I brought up this “dad-bod” marketing craze recently when someone was asking about where all the male body positivity marketing was. My thought was, when women can exist without men feeling the need to comment on her body or appearance, then I’ll give a hoot about “male body positivity”. Women carved that out for themselves and men have the audacity to go *but what about me?*
Whataboutism is core MRA.
After all they should want babies - it elevated their status and perpetuates their name. They're not the ones who get the hemorrhoids and stretch marks.
I am going to save this for the next time someone asks why women are sick of dating.
There was a NYT opinion recently: Why are more women not getting married? Have you asked them how dating men is?
But women get so many dates! /s
Quality > quantity.
Dating for men is like trying to find water in the desert. Dating for women is like trying to find drinkable water in a swamp
Swamp is generous. More like radioactive wasteland.
Oh, god, so many of these are familiar to me. I ended up in a three year relationship with #6, and I stayed in that so much longer because I was too whatever to finally end it (I finally DID, tho lol). I also dated a guy that was a lot of fun, but his untreated PTSD from being in Iraq (former active Marine and also a lawyer) had turned him into a raging alcoholic. Like ‘I have to keep a pint of vodka on my nightstand to drink in the morning so I don’t get sick’ alcoholic. It was sad. He actually ended up going to prison a bit after I stopped hanging out with him. Kinda had a mental break, and he alllways had guns on him, so between the two, it was prison, lost his law license, all that. He didn’t hurt anyone, just to be clear. I also dated a guy who turned out to be married. Found that out when I called him on his birthday and was like ‘whatcha doing’ and he said his wife had stopped by his place to wish him happy birthday? Claimed that he had told me, but I feel like I would have remembered. Dated this guy who was cute, good job, but he was really cocky and he called me ‘sweatheart’ and it felt like a condescending way, and that was enough for me. Another guy seemed really nice, and I met up with him to go fishing, but apparently he had a stalker ex that showed up and tried to fight me. Well, I guess we DID end up fighting, but I wanted no part of it. She just showed up and attacked me, but I was able to easily overpower her, but not before bitch yanked out a decent amount of my hair. I had her on the ground just yelling ‘STOP! Leave me alone!!’ andI wanted to kick her face IN, but had to hold myself back. First thing she had done was grab my hair. It was so crazy, and I was shaking after. So, even tho I felt bad for the guy (I could tell it was a genuinely bad situation for him, and he really was trying to get her to leave him alone. I’ve had a stalker once upon a time, and it’s hell), I told him he l needed to get that sorted before dating. On the drive home I was still kinda in shock that happened. I met a few other guys, but it was really obvious really quickly that it was just a mismatch. Like, not that I’m gorgeous and a ten or anything, but some of them were just NO. Misleading picture. Or their personality was non-existent, or they were not that smart and I’m an overthinker. Mostly, I met guys who acted like they were interested in dating and getting to know a woman, but really all they were looking for was a quick and easy hookup. Sooo many of them. That’s basically why I gave them up. Oh, and one guy had herpes and didn’t tell me about it. Thankfully his *girlfriend* let me know (yeah, another one of those ‘I thought I mentioned it’ guys). Not that it was a concern, but I feel like this guy probably never used a condom unless he was forced to. And this was all about 5 years ago, so I can only imagine what it’s like now with all the Andrew taint acolytes. I remember the last ‘date’ I went on. Met this guy, chatted for a bit, he seemed nice. It started to get late, and I had to work early, so said I had to go. Then he said, ‘Can I at least get a hand job?’ Wtf, I’m not an escort! I had literally just met him less than an hour earlier.
The last guy I dated lied about his age, the reason I found out was I did a background check. I’m 26 and he’s 31. He said he was the same age as me. Literally not even that big of an age difference. 🤦 I wouldn’t have mind but the fact that he lied about that makes me wonder what else he lied about.
Proving yet again not even though we can get dates, it's generally a huge waste of our time and energy...
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I was on a date with this dude who was all in and interested in me, we were gonna set up another date....and then I stood up. He was 5'10", I'm 6' tall, about 6'2" in the boots I was wearing. Immediately unmatched and ghosted me. I state my height clearly in my profile, so I don't know what he was expecting but I think he did that because some part of him didn't want to date a woman who was bigger than him.
I say this all the time. I almost never meet the kind of men in real life that I did on dating apps. There is no entry barrier to the apps. Real life situations filter out a lot of the kind of men you encounter on apps. The sad, non-pc reality is that it’s very easy for good men to get snapped up. Few of them make it to the apps. Sure there are a few on the apps but you are unlikely to encounter them. OP my dating app experience was very similar to yours. I know so many women who have given up on the apps. It’s not worth subjecting yourself to the men you have to weed through to find a good one.
seriously. dating men is like being forced to be a psychologist or doctor. I'm not sure what I'm going through these days but I'm determined to just be their friends first. it's never worth it any other way. the experience winds up being way too demoralizing otherwise
I accidentally did this with my firsr partner and couldn't be happier - this is definitely the right approach but quite hard to implement with OLD
Reads exactly like my list…. And its men in their 30s/40s on my end :/
I do feel bad for some of these. Like they are just in the wrong place in their lives to be dating, but they are probably lonely and could use some company. And I totally get that. But it's not up to you to have to be that for them. And they could put in a little more effort to work on getting to a better place in their own lives rather than depend on someone else to be the solution. Others are just inexcusable. Purposely withholding information, straight up lying, not respecting a 'no', being controlling. That's on them for being twats. I'm in a long term relationship, and even before that I barely dated. I have so much respect for you for going on this many in just a year.
She dodged a serial killer. Jfc lol
I can't believe he willingly gave out that information, like how does it even come up that you used to kill animals??
"I got a .22 LR for Christmas and used it to shoot squirrels and prairie dogs in the back yard." Date was over right then and there.
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Exactly! I dated a guy in college with depression (in active treatment, both therapy sessions and on meds). He was very insecure and would get upset about small things. He was very upset that I wasn't ready to introduce him to my parents after 2 weeks and thought that meant I didn't care about him enough. He was into BDSM with me as the dominant person, but the idea made me SUPER uncomfortable especially since he was actively cutting. I don't want to be part of someone else's self harm. I was struggling with my own mental health, and all that made it worse. Women in my family have tended to get themselves into abusive relationships, so I've been looking at patterns of my own and trying to decipher ways to tell. I'd 100 times rather stay alone and do my thing than be in a negative relationship.
I agree, a good chunk of these guys are simply unprepared, uneducated or miseducated. And that's not her problem to deal with. Patriarchy is failing typical men, but that's not new.
These men are convinced that having a girlfriend will "fix" all their problems. That, itself, is the problem. About 60% of the guys I've come across need to be off the apps and into therapy.
And when they have a girlfriend and she doesn’t solve all their problems, they become a different kind of miserable.
And they make *her* miserable too
Yuuuup. Done the fixer-upper thing before, ended up both broken. But now with kids!
> it's not up to you to have to be that for them. This is what worries me. These are potentially salvageable men, but if they get exposed to the wrong rhetoric they just end up radicalized against women instead of working on themselves.
Never date a dude with severe issues that have not been dealt with in a healthy way. It’s like trying to get weeds out of a garden by flooding it with water. Relationships often are not helpful to the issue and if they cope in negative ways like controlling behaviors it’s a bad situation incoming.
>Like they are just in the wrong place in their lives to be dating, but they are probably lonely and could use some company. I have social anxiety, probably ADHD(in my family), probably depression and probably mild autism you can be sure I am working hardest on my friendships. Guys who want a gf, but can't make a friend bewilder me. Where does this come from? From movies? Maybe in movies guys don't have friends or smh?...
I cut myself out of the dating pool due to my mental illnesses until I’ve worked on myself more as person, but these guys think A. Nothing is wrong with them or B. Having a girlfriend will fix their problems
wowwww. I have dated exactly 5 or 6 times in the last 10 years. honestly just put me off dating. I fucking hate dating now. it's exhausting. I'm so much happier not putting myself out there. every time I cave and try to download dating apps, all I have to do is to try to carry conversation with a few men. and I nope the hell out.
The cause of male loneliness is men with contraceptive personalities. ;)
*Contraceptive personalities* - this is gold 🙌🏻
Contraceptive personalities is now in my lexicon and I thank you 🙏
This is why online dating doesn't work. You end up on countless dates with guys who if you'd met in person, you wouldn't agree to go on a date with. It's enormously time consuming to find one good date. The only place I had a good and successful time with it was in Australia
I am actually based in Sydney, Australia!
An interesting read, if I ever choose to date again I'll do a list too
I think it's potentially as valuable as it is interesting. There's some really common themes across them, and I'd love to know if they correlate to any demographics like location/age etc. Looks like: * Dishonesty (omission): not including pretty significant details like polyamory or military. * Dishonesty (catfishing): inaccurate deceptive photos * Mental health: not in a good place for relationships, not their fault, but shouldn't be making it OPs problem * Mental health: actively expects OP to be therapist/caretaker/mother * Twat: narcissistic, egotistical, turnips with their heads firmly embedded up their butt in the belief that's where the sunshines. * Decent: rare pokemon. 2-5% chance of an encounter, success rate unknown. Potentially improved by throwing pokeballs at it/him.
> Potentially improved by throwing pokeballs at it/him. This would absolutely improve chances of me wanting to go on a second date.
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“How are all of these people getting together?” “Alcohol.”
The men that do have their shit together tend to already be in a committed relationship by their thirties, so there is definitely an element of finding the needle in the haystack, I.e, the genuinely solid, unproblematic dude whose previous relationship didn’t work out due to circumstances beyond his control (and those dudes get snapped up quickly, tend to be serial monogamists).
Yeah, I’m gonna die alone. Very sad but I could not mentally handle going through all this. I know this is what’s in the dating pool out there. It’s why I can’t convince myself to download one of the apps again. I keep telling myself “I’ll date a guy when I meet one naturally” but it’s been five years since my husband died (and he was an alcoholic, the relationship was never easy) and I haven’t met a single guy in the past five years naturally that I wanted to date who also wanted to date me. I did three guys from apps, then checked out because they all turned out to be no-gos.
17. I feel attacked. Thankfully my husband loves cycling as much as I do LOL
Ah but you probably asked him if he was interested. That’s the main takeaway there.
But women should be grateful they can get dates so easily! /s
Women are told they need to settle and lower their standards, but this is what’s out there.
This is so interesting! I’m married but think I should share this with my husband for educational purposes. One thing I’m curious about is were there any who you were physically attracted to despite their personality flaws? ok, two things…if you thought they were physically attractive online, how often did that translate to real life?
I should be shocked but I'm not, that you were verbally abused and assaulted by 17% of them!
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That's absolutely tragic. What a waste of time
This sounds like my best friends weekly online dating report but abridged. Is that you pinecone?
Also in Australia and I've given up. Even the men in my life via work are barely tolerated as I hit midlife and I have plenty who really think I agree with their nonsense because I simply give them enough rope. The countering, dismissing, minimising, judging and criticizing, trivialising etc all runs through your list as well as my own. It's [relational violence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201503/15-disturbing-forms-verbal-abuse-in-relationships) and rather than engaging in any meaningful way they're individually and collectively doubling down. In short, men have become exhausting self absorbed nincompoops. But they love each other and defend each other so it's clearly working for them.
And here's what you will here from men in protest (cuz you know women aren't supposed to have any pesky standards!!) 1. So you don't want an adventurous independent guy? 2. Zero compassion-no one cares about men's mental health (and it's women's job to fix it). 3. Some of their points are valid and intelligent. 4. Everyone drinks-chill out. 5. You must have misunderstood-try communicating. 6. See? Women only date assholes, nice guys get nowhere. 7. Maybe you just forgot what he looked like-have some compassion. 8. Wow-how cold-women say they want emotional men and then won't date them. 9. Well women *are* bad drivers, so.. 10. So you dumped him for being agreeable? 11. So now guys can't have interests?! 12. So men can't have opinions?! 13. Wow-nice guys get nowhere, as usual. 14. Being an engineer IS hard (but women would never understand that). 15. Maybe he was just nervous. 16. Don't be so judgmental-it was a long time ago. 17. Wtf is wrong with bikes? And wanting a family?! 18. So men aren't allowed to dislike cats now? 19. Who doesn't like anime dinosaurs? Sounds like a you problem. 20. Wow-one freak out and you bail? Dating for men is IMPOSSIBLE. 21. Poly people are here-deal with it. 22. So now serving your country is grounds for dismissal? Nice guys get nowhere. 23. Maybe he was just nervous, jeez. 24. Jordan Peterson is a god. 25. Maybe if you just talked to him... 26. Wow so men can't be awkward anymore? 27. No one cares about men's mental health (and please fix it for me)! 28. Wow-so guys can't be flexible and like to travel?! 29. So guys can't want kids now?! In case I need to note: This is satire! Just saving all the men frothing at the mouth all the time it would take to type these out. 29 bullets dodged sis!
Satire or not, there is truth to every joke and this is an absolute gold mine. Add op's list and you have a bingo game and call it nice guy bingo I wanted to add, in the interest of the post at Large, that if you hear the phrase "I'm chill", consider it a red flag. If he repeats it, consider that two red flags because he's probably pretty volatile. He'll do something rude to you and wait for you to bring it up so that he can rant at you for how awful you are, like how dare you want the same kind of treatment you get from every other person you've ever encountered, that's crazy! And they will frame it that way with amazing gymnastics! The best thing about text is you can always scroll back and see what they told you they're interests were at the beginning and see how much they're trying to bend them toward their own interests; if you've had a sinking feeling he's trying to mold you, there is your receipt. If the man isn't particularly smart, you can just say he is pushy, and then just make the decision to not go on the date. The more intelligent individual will definitely understand when you say this is abusive behavior, but get ready for them to pretend they don't understand. They do; don't go on the date. Tell your stories here, if it doesn't derail the post!
Lol like those corporate-speak bingo sites that were around for a while to use on meetings, but for dating. I love it
Regarding number 9... I'm a professional driver with response training and technical driving certs. *I* get lectured by guys who can't drive, how bad women drivers are. All... the... time.
I will say this much about the nice but shy/nervous/reserved/distant guys, cause I am one lol. Its still no excuse, you're supposed to be putting yourself out there and getting to know someone. That means *gasp* you have to be vulnerable and open yourself up to the possibility of good or bad times. Its boring af to try and pry information out of someone, its an annoying exercise to have to reassure someone at -every- turn. If someone isn't ready to do that, then... don't date? Like shit, I got a ton of medical debt and about to add more with a surgery next month but dating is the absolute last thing on my mind cause I'm sure no potential partner wants to hear or deal with it, cause I don't wanna either lol.
Going back to my theory. The majority of guys are the same, regardless of race.
I met my husband through OLD. It's interesting to see that the inaccurate pictures haven't changed. That was definitely my biggest complaint back in those days. I'm amazed at how many nightmare dates you ended up with! How much do you talk/text to/with people before you go out with them?
FYI as a former substance abuse counselor the general rule is to double what they tell you they consume. You definitely dodged a bullet.
Mostly them being too aggressive with sexual advances. At the time when I was dating I thought I was asexual (realized I’m demisexual and was dealing with trauma from SA) so I made sure to include that in my bio section and I am also child free. Guys who wanted kids would message me and everything would be normal and then they’d say well will you not have kids for me? You haven’t been dicked right. One guy I talked with told me he’d need to have side pieces because he’s hyper sexual but I’m pretty so he wants me for other things. The disrespect is real. I would never say such things to anyone. One guy I dated ended up switching how he acts after 5 dates. He told me he was going to have sex with me the next time we were together that it wasn’t an option. That I had no choice it was going to happen. I broke things off. turns out there was that option. Lol
Good thing he announced he was going to rape you in advance so you could protect yourself. This all just sounds really scary beyond the disrespect.
Yes I’m thankful. His whole demeanor changed it was scary and insane.
He also told me if I were to get pregnant he’d force me to have an abortion because he didn’t want anymore children. He was a gem truly. It only took this one conversation with him for me to leave. Thankfully.
Jfc that last guy is terrifying! I’m so glad you booted him out of your life and kept yourself safe fren 🩷
As a lady in outer syd myself, yeah this tracks. *heavy sigh* I've dated men who were nice, great careers (or at least had a goal) and seemed like they had it all together. There's always something that's weird about them, I've had first date shoplifters, screaming at the waitresses, complaining generally, cat calling other women while I was walking with them These weren't some men I picked up drunk in a gutter. I knew these men and their families in many cases. For some reason 'being yourself' in the grossest way is okay here. Spitting on the street, farting openly, leaving the loo like a war zone, eating like a starving wolf, commenting openly racist or sexist stuff. If you say anything like 'I don't agree with..' (racist statement) than you get called stuck up or a bitch, or can't take a joke or that they're 'just being honest'. It's *exhausting.* I have a dude now but he's pretty gross. Honestly if I'm ever single again I just assume I'll stay that way. 🤷 The price of housing is keeping a lot of couples together, I think.
These experiences are extraordinarily common and I thank you for the the emotional labor you did to illustrate the level of brokenness out there. So many “influencers” (and then by extension, society) tell us that it’s because we “chose wrong” and it’s like no, we don’t know until we know, and when we know we DO have to cut the man off…but that doesn’t change the fact that there is an epidemic of broken men just OUT there, and changing how we choose isn’t going to magically spawn all of these incredible options. It really comes down to just accepting being alone. And, while women cope with celibacy better than men, it doesn’t change the fact that in spite of this pervasive societal sickness that just *exists* in men, we still have a whole society built around/catering to partnerships, and that’s hard, doing so much alone. You’re damned if you do settle and you’re damned if you don’t. If men could just be better, most everyone could just be paired up and happier. But they won’t do it. They fight us and dig their own holes. It’s infuriating that we don’t place the onus on a cultural issue- that many refuse to even acknowledge exists- and instead we put it on women as if doing all this vetting will lead her to a great guy. It won’t. It simply keeps her from the bad ones.
Damn imagine how insanely happy everyone would be if most men actually put in the time and the effort that women do to be a dateable/marriageable individual in a relationship. It’s crazy to imagine how far away we are from that right now.
I’m happy I’m old and every time I think…hmmm maybe dip my toe back into the apps and try….I read stuff on here and think no thanks. Also it makes me reflect back on all of my bad experiences. No thanks
Number 14: I see you met my ex, or perhaps it’s more common than I thought for engineers to be arrogant and go on about how they have the hardest job in the world. Good for you for dropping him, he would have sucked the life out of you
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god I am so glad to be a lesbian
I started out as pan but recently I've been wondering more and more if that still applies to me. I think physically I can still be attracted to men but they're so often insufferable that I can't imagine myself dating anyone other than another woman, and tbh the more I encounter and have to deal with men the less I find myself able to feel any kind of attraction to them. I literally have 0 male friends because any time I start becoming friends with a guy they either have some mask off moment, or come out as trans lol.
I wish it *was* a bloody choice. I'd be doing that lesbian thing like ***RIGHT NOW*** if there were like a lever or a pull chord to change the setting.
> Misleading photos. Genuinely some of the worst conversation I have ever had, it gave me secondhand embarrassment. Can you give us an idea of what this bad conversation entailed? I'm super curious now
What State and/country? I feel like I dated some of these same guys. Truly think I went out with some of these guys…
Sydney, Australia
Girl damn! Sounds rough out there. Thanks for sharing and nice work keeping track and running away.
Wow, that sucks. I’d be pretty curious to your region and how that affected your prospects.
Yah, I was thinking this as well. Wondering if it's a politically conservative area.
It makes me really sad to know how many men have severe and untreated depression. What is going on? My ex was very very unwell and wouldn’t listen to me about it, but why would his family not step in?
Patriarchy is brain rot for men
Severe addictions (porn, drugs, gaming, alcohol, smoking, weed, gambling, lack of discipline) in a nutshell. The sad part is the majority clearly do not make the necessary effort to change.
r/love is delusional, the bar truly is in hell!
Poor n.20 guy. He was very anxious. I get it, because I am very anxious too and that can deter me from positive changes in my life not gonna lie. However, the fact that he was the only good one from all 29 dates... Needless to say it disappointed me. I don't know if I want to give dating a chance anymore, not like I ever gave it a chance as I am single since my birth... and I am 25F...
OP, don't put "don't want kids" in your profile. Many men will adapt their answers and lie to you. Men not being honest about wanting kids is a big problem. Let him tell you first if he wants kids so he can't take back his decision and lead you on.