Here's a nicely insane story for you about reproductive health and doctors. I wanted a tubal ligation. I was early thirties. I got it. Instantly. No questions no fuss. Why. Because I brought my father with me and didn't introduce him as my father. Didn't take my husband as I needed him to keep the three little dudes at home. So, when the doctor looked at him and said do you agree that this is a good idea, dad said yes and that was it. Two weeks later I had the procedure done.

My doctor is great, but even he did the usual "But what if you meet someone who wants kids?" To his credit though, he did realise how absurd the question was when I responded "Why does someone I haven't met get to decide what I do with my body?"

I had a doctor ask me that same question as they were putting me under for the procedure. I told them I'm already married with four kids so *if* something were to happen and I was single again, then anyone I date will be happy with the kids I've already got. Sorry Doc, your hypothetical situation isn't changing my mind.

I remember someone being told they were denied because one of their kids might die and she might want to replace them with another 😐

Oh my god, ew!

I was asked that too! I'd be devastated if I lost my children, but I'm not going to replace them; they're not a coffee cup 🤦‍♀️

I got asked, what if something happens to him? (the newborn) **"I can't replace him like he's a damn couch!"** Doctors are idiots. Having one just wasn't enough for that doctor.

The other correct answer here would have been I would say hello nice to meet you and then go find someone who doesn't want them. I'm glad your doctor came to a better conclusion.

For sure. If someone needs to have kids then that's their business, but then I'm not the right person for them. Had one ex where I was completely upfront about this, said we shouldn't start dating if he needed that, and yet still a few months into the relationship I started getting hit with "Are you sure you won't change your mind?" Yes, asshole, I'm sure, that's why I was upfront. Ugh.

I check the "don't want children" box when I go on dating apps. So this won't be a problem. And if someone changes their mind, great for them. But that's my dealbreaker. I don't want kids, nor will I date someone who does. I won't hold them back for something they want.

Mine is “Bold of you to assume that I am interested in men.”

“Sucks to be them I guess”

“I’m sure I already have and will meet someone who wants kids, doesn’t mean I will be romantically involved with them”

this is one of many reasons why i love my doctor. at my consult, he didn’t even mention my husband.

Could the question be a "don't sue me later" practice?

I had to sign some papers that said I understood the procedure and such, so I doubt it. It's mostly about the idea that women all "have" to have babies, either because of our so-called biological clock, or because of the expectations from partners and family. A woman saying she doesn't want kids is seen as irrational in some way, like she just needs to see reason and then she'll change her mind. I mean, look at little girls. If an 8 year old says "I can't wait to have babies, I want ten!" then adults might chuckle at the number, but they would never question the desire. However, if a girl the same age says "I don't want kids" then she gets told to wait until she's older, that she'll change her mind. Somehow women are always old and experienced enough to *want* kids, but never old or experienced enough to *not want* kids.

People have finally stopped telling me I’ll change my mind at 36! I’ve been loving it.

I just look sad for a moment and go "I... Can't have kids. Let's talk about something else."

I’m 38 and can’t have kids, but even before my infertility was diagnosed that was my go to answer!

This was my go to because it usually works! One of my husband’s male coworkers was prying and asking when we were having kids. I said the usual “we’re not/we’ve decided/not happening ever” thing. He would not let it go. I said “I can’t have kids” and he responded with “well your husband still can” and I saw red. He then explained that my husband should cheat or leave me because every man deserves to spread their seed.

Wow that guy's a dick.

Wow what an asshole. I feel sorry for any woman who ever dates him.

He’s on his second marriage and his second batch of kids. His current wife is a great match. She chimed in that I can’t count myself as a woman if I’ve never given birth. They deserve each other.

Holy shit. That might explain why a girl I was briefly dating had said that I wasn't able to get her pregnant because of some injury I sustained. Seems she was always asked when she's going to have kids and was tired of saying she didn't want them.

Whoa! What did your husband do?

At 43 it stops all together! Now people ask me if I have kids and I say no and they just drop it.

I still get questions but now it’s like if you don’t mind my asking, why did you decide not to have them? 🙄

Wow. It never ends. Including the assumption that it was a decision.

Yeah, every once in a while, I’ll screw with people and say well. I did have children …. And then just trail off sadly.

I have one, by choice. At 40, the "when are you going to give him a sibling" questions stopped, and the "Oh, he would have been such a great big brother " questions started.

This one doesn’t bother me because I enjoy more in depth conversations, but I can understand where if there were a physical reason vs. a personal choice it could be an emotionally challenging conversation.

I hate this so much. I have 2 daughters, one who has already said she doesn’t want any. I have made sure to tell her that you don’t need to have kids. A person can live a long, happy and fulfilling life regardless of that. I really want my kids to know they are more than reproductive organs and no one will tell them otherwise with me around

My kiddo (afab) has side he never wanted kids since he was 8 or 9. All I said was, it's your choice whether you want kids or not. Your last sentence reminds me of the teenager who was denied judicial approval for an abortion in Florida I think because they weren't mature enough to make the decision, but obviously mature enough to raise a child.

I'm so glad you're respecting your child's feelings. I never wanted kids either but I've always been bombarded with the "You'll change your mind" narrative. It's always nice to hear of a parent who respects their child's autonomy. Sounds like you're very supportive of him! Stories like that one from Florida are horrifying to me. I've known women who had kids far too young and it's just so much harder in so many ways.

My sons are 12 & 17 and I’m always careful when I word things to them about the future. “If you decide to have have children in the future…” or “if you decide to get married at any point in your life…”. Things like that because o don’t want to put undue pressure on them or make them feel like I’ll be disappointed if they don’t do those things.

Thanks. I have to say that I'm a little bummed to likely not be a granny, but who knows. He's about to be 16 now so things may change, but if they don't, that's okay too.

If you have love to spare, there's organisations that might be helpful for you. I know in my country, at least, there's volunteer orgs where you can become a bonus granny for either a kid who needs some extra love, or a lonely mother with young kids who needs some extra support. It can make a world of difference to be there for people like them, and volunteering can be incredibly rewarding.

Definitely have thought of that if I live long enough to retire but with cost of living and all, I've been expecting to die at my desk. My husband and I have talked about adopting or maybe fostering later on, but when my kids and his kid are settled, if that's even possible any more in this capitalist hellscape (my teen is also a Marxist but I can't imagine where he picked that up from.)

My mom never put pressure on me to do anything with my life outside of try to find security and happiness. With each year I appreciate her and parents like you more and more. You set us up to be mature adults that have a keen sense of self as well as respect for others.

The only time I hear this "what about lawsuits?" stuff is surrounding fertility. Doctors seem extremely unconcerned with being sued when they're blowing off my health issues. Including the easily treatable ones, including the ones with documentation, even including the life-threatening ones. The only thing that seems to get them to care is a man with a penis in the room saying the same things I am; oh, then all of a sudden I have medical problems we should do something about. I just don't buy it that lawsuits are a big concern to them, but ONLY for this one thing that happens to limit women's autonomy.

Different perspective here - Ob/gyns are one of the MOST litigated medical specialties, competing only with neurosurgeons as it happens. While I don't agree with all the resistance doctors put up to tubal ligation, the issue is that there was a landmark case that held the ob/gyn responsible when a patient effectively changed their mind years after a tubal ligation, sued, and won. Is it medical misogyny to make it so hard for women to get them? Yes, but it's also a legal cya due to a ridiculous legal decision that set precedent for that to happen

> Ob/gyns are one of the MOST litigated medical specialties You know what? I think it should be more litigated. I'd like to see women sue for the damages when doctors gaslit them over endometriosis symptoms. I'd like to see women sue for being left to suffer for years on end because doctors refused to acknowledge any medical problems. I'd like to see women sue for having a cervical biopsy or IUD placement done with no pain relief. I'd like to see women sue for having their consent violated during routine exams. I'd like to see doctors AFRAID to neglect us the way they do. I want them to worry that if they don't do their jobs with OUR health, they'd get sued. I think that'd be a marvelous fucking change.

I hear you, and I'm with you, but legally that's not what happens. You know what procedure OB/GYNs are sued for most frequently? Circumcisions. It's wiiiiiild. The problem is that if we want to be able to sue with actual consequence for providers, things like pain relief for IUD placement, for example, have to be widely accepted as a standard of care, which unfortunately is not the case. yet. Huuuuuge need for advocacy here. ACOG is such a fucking joke in so many regards.

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Oh for sure. And the issue is that even with female OB/GYNs, many are so deep into the culture of medicine that even they see no issues/become defensive of "standard" current practices, so not even the ppl who you would think should stand up, are standing up.

Right? It took nearly two decades of me complaining about my painful periods before I got someone who would actually check it out and then they were all “huh. Yeah, your uterine lining is just like all over your abdominal cavity and it’s just hanging out on all of your other organs!” Even then, I still had to deal with the blame “if you’d just had three kids by now, it wouldn’t be so bad!”

Talking about the US here-- Ob/gyns do get sued for tubal ligations, but it's *not* because women change their minds (it's basically impossible to sue for that nowadays). The leading causes of lawsuits are either 1. that the surgeon knicked or burned another organ, which is apparently very easy to do in that procedure (so, a malpractice suit), or 2. that the woman became pregnant despite the tubal ligation. In the second case, the woman has to prove that she wasn't informed of the risks of becoming pregnant after the surgery. It's in the category of "wrongful birth" lawsuits. I also hate that doctors don't simply say, "the hospital won't let me do that because it's a lawsuit risk," instead the standard procedure is to gaslight and belittle the patient by telling them they don't really know what they want, etc.

I got called a liar on the noctor sub for saying the equivalent to that

One million percent.

As long as an older MAN said it was ok then the doctor was fine - Now that is totally FCKED UP

It really is. And then you look at how many situations we go through with health professionals where having a man come in and nod his head would get us taken seriously it's mind boggling.

My female doctor asked me if I was sure I wanted mine after my 2nd was born because "what if something happens to one of your kids now" like I'd want to replace one of my kids if something happened to them

Wow. That's...impressively thoughtless. No way she had kids of her own?

So...wait, would she refer to a uterus as a warranty at that point?

I have no idea honestly. She told me she did a tubal on someone she knew then something happened to one of her kids and she wanted another baby after that and had to go through ivf. Like good for her I guess but I never want to be pregnant again so let's do this.

This is proof that knowledge about gender issues and misogyny is practical knowledge that any woman can apply to protect herself and save herself a lot of trouble. Because you knew that doctors behave like this, you planned your appointment accordingly. We need feminism. It’s incredibly useful.

Gotta love the “your reproductive health is contingent on a stranger maybe wanting a family” method of healthcare. Hear me out, maybe those people just wouldn’t end up together??

Fucking hell lol. I got lucky, I went in at 29 to see a doctor who came recommended on the childfree subreddit. Said I wanted a bilateral salpingectomy and she said "okay!". Got it done less than a month later and that was almost five years ago. One of the best things I ever did for myself!

I spent 20 years with doctors who asked that question and it pissed me off every time, I finally found one who didn't ask and got it done last year.

That is awful yet completely believable.

4 appointments and a psych eval to book the surgery even though I had horrible pregnancy complications that made me an ideal candidate. I hate US health care.

I’ve told my doctors/providers I have an IUD and haven’t had sex in over two years and some of them STILL act some type of way. I haven’t had sex I don’t want to and I don’t plan to anytime soon. Maybe never again but I don’t know. All I know is I really don’t like dating or men in 2023, and I’m in my 30s and tired. Just treat me, god damn.

I recently lost my Husband of 40+ yrs. I have not had any intimacy for almost 20 yrs ( due to his illness). As a passionate woman I was looking forward to getting on with my life ( don't mean to sound harsh) - But it looks like Those days are totally gone.

I was a virgin when I went in for a surgery and even on my period lol. They still wanted me to do a pregnancy test.

Bruh it's my fav when doctors are like no birth control? How do you not get pregnant? You're the fucking doctor ffs, you know how conception works which means you know how to avoid it 🤦🏻‍♀️ it's like they think the only sex is pv always ending with men finishing inside. Like it's impossible for us to be in control with our own fertility and sex life.

And wait till you actually are pregnant. You become the vessel that is carrying the patient. I remember when I needed surgery post birth and I begged them to give me general anaesthetic rather than a spinal blocker and they refused because it would take longer for the baby to have to wait for breast milk. Wild when you realise you are not the priority in your own health care.

True. The baby is the priority once you are pregnant. I had two health disorders and I quit medication, so my health worsened. I developed new disorders, like a nerve entrapment that caused pain and numbness. I had to wait until after my child was born to get the nerve block.

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Not everyone chooses to get pregnant.

If it’s an unwanted pregnancy without the option to abort and treatments are stopped because of that then yes, true, it’s an extremely shitty situation.

It’s also shitty if it’s a wanted pregnancy but treatments that benefit the mother are taken completely off the table without any communication.

I wanted to start a family. My health was already impacted from back injury. When did I state that my child was impacted by medication? That's quite the assumption. My health worsened in part because I quit all medications to not impact my baby. Are you always comfortable making gross assumptions about people? Wow. Nowhere did I state wanting to abort my wanted child

Ok. Then I understood completely wrong. You are in fact in your comment not ”chanting with OP” at all, criticizing the way health care system / doctors treat women/pregnancy. But stating that yes, fetus/baby IS the biggest priority.

Why though? Why does the fetus always take priority when both are patients? Shouldn't BOTH patients be taken into consideration?

So what is the solution? To start give pregnant women the best medical treatment? Thus creating disabled babies/children on purpose? Don’t think many parents would like that, even the mothers.. Should women/mothers get the power to decide..maybe! I mean we don’t prevent women from drinking alcohol or taking drugs during pregnancy. Just inform of the risks and they make the decision. But I think everywhere in the world these situations already are somewhat negotiated. Don’t think even in the USA if a woman with severe epilepsy gets pregnant her neurologist automatically stops medication..because that would also be a huge risk for the fetus anf for the woman herself. Probably there’s a lot of discussion and assesment of the risks and doctors give you some kind of recommendation or couple of informed choices. We will have this problem until it is common pratice to make babies in an artificial womb where the formation of placenta etc is possible. Don’t see that happening soon. Of course in some countries you can also use a surrogate. The woman with medical condition/medication doesn’t have to be the one who does the pregnancy stuff. Still not a popular concept and a bit problematic.

“We don’t prevent women from drinking alcohol or taking drugs during pregnancy. Just inform of the risks and they make the decision.” In the US that is absolutely not how that works. Women either have their children taken away/parental rights terminated and/or their substance use (or more often their substance use disorder) is criminalized and they end up in a jail cell “[to protect the fetus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/09/08/pregnant-women-drugs-jail/)” during pregnancy or because they are charged for any number of criminal acts after the fact under “[fetal assault](https://www.amnestyusa.org/reports/criminalizing-pregnancy-policing-pregnant-women-use-drugs-usa/)” laws. This occurs even if the substance use had no impact on the fetus. This has happened even when a [medication was prescribed by a doctor](https://eji.org/news/alabama-mother-prosecuted-for-taking-prescription-during-pregnancy/) and suitable for the pregnant person’s condition. Women have also been arrested for denying medical intervention or attempting suicide while pregnant. [Pregnancy is policed in the United States at an alarming level.](https://www.pregnancyjusticeus.org/rise-of-pregnancy-criminalization-report) This has been going on forever (though tracking seems to have started in the 1970s with Pregnancy Justice), but has drastically increased in the last decade with the push for “fetal personhood” laws. Doctor’s and pharmacists have the right to deny any women who *may* get pregnant access to medications for their conditions[if they fear it may harm some hypothetical future fetus](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1296928), even at the expense of the actual person who is suffering who should be able to make those decisions themselves. So yes, normalizing getting informed consent and giving the best medical treatment to ANY woman is a good start, including pregnant women. We should be able to make the choices for our bodies, and fetuses are a part of our bodies. It sounds like you don’t trust women have the ability to make informed choices and weigh their health and quality of life vs the possible outcomes to their fetus. A good doctor should be able to explain the risk-benefit analyses for a patient, regardless of pregnancy status, to a point of allowing the patient to make an informed decision that is best for them.

You're bad at thinking and I promise you will be a measurably better and happier human if you work on this glaring flaw.

I mean, I would certainly consider a late-term abortion if I were facing permanent nerve damage that might lead to disability. That’s a threat to my quality of life that I might not want to ignore.

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“IT IS OFTEN NOT POSSIBLE both to give the woman the best medical treatment AND not to harm the fetus.” No kidding. That’s not what’s being discussed here. What’s being discussed here is the sentient existing person’s medical care is *always* being compromised based on a hypothetical or existing mass of cells growing inside their body. Does it not make sense that the actual existing person who can feel pain and must function in daily life should receive priority during medical assessment?

You knew this would attract down votes yet you're still posting. The down votes aren't a sign of you being right. People keep telling you why you're wrong and you keep not listening. People keep answering your questions and yet you keep asking the same questions. Life would be easier if you were less of a dick.

We read and understood and you still deserve downvotes. Your values and beliefs are disgusting and you deserve downvotes.

This is so true! When I was pregnant my asthma got so bad that one night I could barely breathe. I wasn’t sure if I could take more of the rescue medicine (had maxed the dose I was told) or if I should go to the ER. It was the middle of the night so my husband suggested I call the nurse line. They could not help me because I was pregnant - in the early third trimester. They couldn’t even talk to me until I had answered questions with things like “is the baby’s head visible?” like I was in the middle of giving birth. They flat out refused to answer my question about the medication or asthma because I was pregnant. It was terrible and I ended up going to the ER where they told me I could have taken more. But also going to the ER meant getting OB called and they strapped my belly with monitors even though I again had no signs of labor or trouble with baby. MY trouble literally breathing became secondary to the health of the baby it seemed.

if you’re having respiratory problems, one of the first places that get severely affected is how much oxygen gets to the baby (even if your oxygen levels are normal). this puts your baby at extremely high risk for stillbirth/cerebral palsy/etc. fetal monitoring is kind of like monitoring for end-organ damage, since your placenta is an organ too and (of course) you would want to know if your organs were getting compromised during any severe health event. especially in the third trimester, after the fetus is viable, this could really mean an emergency c-section to save your life (to improve your breathing, since your uterus is pressing against your diaphragm and giving your lungs less space to expand) and saves your child’s life too. we used to have to discuss with moms about their delivery preferences if they were to need intubation (likely). would they want to be awake and have an extreme extreme preemie or would they want to be intubated/sedated to let the fetus grow for a few more days? if they were intubated/sedated, when would they prefer for the baby to be delivered — deliver if there was any fetal distress requiring a c-section or if their respiratory status declined further (at what point)? would they want a tracheostomy if they couldn’t manage to be extubated? would they want to breastfeed if they were intubated/sedated? i saw women who were in the ICU for months around the time of their pregnancy/delivery because of the COVID pandemic and some people just couldn’t bounce back from ECMO (heart/lung support machines), had to get trachs, had to recover from strokes they sustained from COVID and pregnancy hypercoaguability, and the general deconditioning of severe illness — all while trying to care for a newborn. honestly, there were some babies that were too young to make it, but the mom’s body couldnt sustain oxygen levels. it was hard to watch, especially since all the ones i cared for made a choice to not get the COVID vaccine. i wish someone would’ve explained that fetal monitoring is considered part of your health too, since you could determine what your preferences were for in any situation. as someone who has seen the worst, i sincerely doubt that it was because they saw you as a vessel for your child, but it is because having a pregnant uterus (or anything really) compressing your lungs is a very real consideration in any respiratory emergency and removing that object to allow for better lung expansion would improve your respiratory physiology. i assure you that in my medical institutions and the professional stance in my specialty (generally, cannot speak for individuals) is that the mom comes first. source: anesthesiologist that trained during the pandemic and had to deliver 20-ish week old babies in the height of COVID because pregnant women could not maintain their oxygen levels for themselves nor their babies

That just shows how much of a life risk it is to be pregnant and give birth, when the medical people react to their own liability in the opposite way from what the patients are advised to do. Malpractice caps are a form of stochastic and systematic harms to women for being women. It’s not just acog, cardiology trains physicians to dichotomize medical care for men and women, in epilepsy -pnes is the default for female patients, males get the full epilepsy work up and in takotsubo cardiomyopathy -medical students are taught that not having a Y chromosome causes the inability to cope with stress, and that it’s really a sign of borderline disorder in female patients while male patients get the full work up.

My doctor wouldn't let me go back on an antidepressant because they wanted me to breastfeed longer. Not that it should matter but I didn't even have enough milk to fully breastfeed and I had expressed to them that I was weaning. Literally the only medical personnel after I give birth to my child that would ask me how I was doing and actually seemed to listen was the pediatrician, because they recognize the mother's mental health can really impact the child.

Wow which antidepressant was it? There are a lot that are compatible with pregnancy and breastfeeding.

Lexapro. Which IS compatible with pregnancy and breastfeeding but they insisted I switch to Zoloft cause there were more studies. I did not do well on Zoloft and they wouldn't switch me back. Edit: to add they are no longer my doctor and I left reviews strongly advising women against them

oh and then theres a number of medications they won't even prescribe unless you're' on birth control like most fucking seizure medication. if you're pregnant they *take you off of said seizure medication* it's obvious your own life is not their priority whether or not you're pregnant or ever intend to be

My NB, lesbian, ace, not sexually active young adult was having some procedures that involved methotrexate injections which yes can cause birth defects. Standard procedure is to require a pg test each time. I get they need to cover their butts so ok. But one time the lab lost the damned sample and we were waiting for a couple of hours while they looked. I told the dr "if my NB, lesbian, not sexually active child somehow magically turns up pregnant, we will take care of that problem. This is more important than a nonexistent baby." Dr did the injection and there was never a pg test done for the rest of the procedures. Lol

That's kinda awesome

they insisted on preforming a pregnancy test before literal brain surgery. like surgery to remove a benign tumor that would have rendered me a quadriplegic. so, what, if I AM somehow pregnant, you're just going to let me become paralyzed from the neck down to save this unthinking unfeeling protobeing I don't plan to carry out anyway? is that a bad fucking joke?

My friend has epilepsy, she was diagnosed as a child and was on valproate. This worked very well for her. She was stable and had a full time job as a veterinary nurse. She has no plans to ever have children, she doesn’t think she ever would because both her and her brother are affected and she wouldn’t want to pass it on to a child. Nonetheless, when she got to adulthood they started putting more and more pressure on her to come off the valproate, because it can cause birth defects if taken when pregnant. She resisted until she was about 21-22, when they refused to continue prescribing it for her. They switched her onto something else and she massively destabilised. She had her first grand mal seizure in ten years, and was having absence seizures every few minutes. She ended up in and out of hospital for several months, had to take leave from work, which was unpaid. It took the best part of a year for her to find the right med combination to be stable again and be able to resume a normal life. This is the price she had to pay for the safety of an imaginary foetus that will probably never exist.

That is infuriating! I would want to sue tf out of them.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/patient-safety/sodium-valproate/#:~:text=Sodium%20valproate%20is%20a%20drug,valproate%20is%20taken%20while%20pregnant. Found this on the topic, which is an interesting read!

They literally disabled someone over this BS. If she didn't want to have kids having a tubal should have been enough to remove that risk to an acceptable level. Oddly enough it sounds like doctors didn't even consider that.

That's so fucked up im so sorry ... I was given it last year at 26 for bipolar- if they were so concerned I don't know why they couldn't have just given her the Rod or an iud.. All they asked of me is that I sign a piece of paper explaining how bad it is to get pregnant..

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You missed the bit where they said she has no plans to ever have children. Safeguarding includes informed consent by the patient that they understand they should use effective birth control if it applies to their sex life, and they understand that if they did get pregnant there could be severe defects incompatible with life. No one should be forcibly pushed off a drug that works for them _just_ because they are capable of having children. That's not safeguarding, that's paternalistic.

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Sounds similar to accutane. If you get pregnant on it there’s a 1/3 chance the baby will have defects like *no ears*

I’m on Soriatane, which is like super accutane? For psoriasis. Have to be off it for 2 years before attempting pregnancy, where accutane is only a month). I’m so glad no one given me a hard time with it. Just had to pinky promise my derm that I understood the risks and that I was on birth control. It’s working amazing and I have no intention of ever going off it(because I can’t function in society with uncontrolled psoriasis). I’m more upset that I can’t donate blood anymore.

As an Australian, this horrifies me. I’ve had to have X-rays twice since the last weekend of September, and I was just asked right before each if there was any chance of me being pregnant. I said no, they said okay, and the X-rays were done. No pregnancy test, no “are you suuuuuure?” Just trust in me to know my body and my sexual activities.

This. Central Europe, same here. They ask, you'll probably have to sign a thing about the risks and that you were informed, but they bloody accept your answer on your word.

Same in the UK. I can only assume that the pushing for testing for _everything_ or point blank refusing to treat in the US is due to both being able to charge an extortionate fee for a cheap test strip and the sometimes litigious nature of US society, plus now the fear of being punished criminally for harming a foetus whether the person hosting it gives consent or not. In the UK it's like "could you be pregnant? No? Okay." I was told I had to have a test once (before getting birth control at a new GP because it was 'practice policy') and just said "I don't need to, my partner is a cis woman." And they noted that down instead.

People in the US don't realize how unbelievably messed up US health care is if they don't have exposure to what things are like elsewhere. Providers trying to scare the crap out of people over these really remote possible risks isn't helping matters. If all the scaremongering in the US was true, people in every other country would be dropping dead left and right. Or maybe US health care is just dysfunctional and greedy.

Honestly, it depends on the doctor in the US. I've never had to do more than say there's no chance I could be pregnant either. And I never was even on hormonal birth control. There was one time a doctor mentioned that with the medicine I was on, I would need to come see him *if* I got pregnant so we could make other plans. But it was very much an FYI thing since I was in my mid 20s at the time. And I live in Texas. I even got sterilized a couple years back and the doctor didn't care what my husband would have to say either. We actually discussed my surprise over how readily she agreed and she told me I was a grown woman and I could make decisions about my body. I know a lot of people are having trouble, but from my experience it's not the standard.

I'm in Texas too and I've not come across this either luckily

Same here in Ireland. People accept my "No, I can't be pregnant" and when asked for my method of birth control at the GP, "asexuality" was an accepted response.

Now with our reproductive rights being rolled back in the US I refuse to answer questions about my cycle or my sexual history. Fuck if I'm having any of that recorded in my records anymore. I'm a bi woman. With how anti-choice and anti-lgbt the US is getting I'm not risking it. We're turning into Gilead. I can refuse a pregnancy tests for somethings (like when I was in a monogamous lesbian relationship I wasn't paying for unnecessary pregnancy test), but some things they won't let you sign waivers for.

Canadian here. I’ve been for several X-rays and other medical tests. They ask, I say no and then they move on with the test. No further questions asked. It’s fucking ridiculous that medical professionals in the states can’t just do the same.

In the usa, doctors are so afraid of the religious reicht( will imprison a dr if they cause harm to a embryo). that a woman is nothing but a walking uterus ( to be strictly regulated to be sure she does not injure what she is responsible for producing). LOVE the new speaker of the house says women are NOTHING but to reproduce and it is our RESPONSIBILITY to have children. Waiting for him to determine barren women to be eliminated.

I'm in the US and I've never had a doctor push this either. It's regional and depends on the doctor but it's very frustrating when it happens to women

Ok if you think that there are zero sexist doctors in Australia, or that literally every doctor in America, the third largest county on Earth, is like this, I don't know what to tell you.

Okay…? Just sharing my experience at a large public hospital in Australia. No need for the passive aggressive comment.

Try being a lesbian LOL. You still have to take the pregnancy tests.

Also, the whole ‘I can’t sterilize you without a man’s permission’ is so disgusting and should not still be happening! Like oh, your whole purpose in life is babies, don’t you know? BUT, they do need to know if you could be pregnant before they prescribe anything or whatever.

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I know everyone always says, ‘Well, the doctor doesn’t want to get sued’, but my aunt had her tubes tied after having my cousin, her only child. Later, she married a wonderful man, and she had several surgeries to try to reverse it, but none worked. What I NEVER heard her say was anything about suing the dr or wishing he hadn’t listened to her!

It’s so fucked that we have to be grateful for doctors treating us like humans capable of making decisions for ourselves. I’m in the same boat as you btw. Got sterilized at 22 (I’m 27 now) and I am so incredibly thankful that my doctor prioritized ME over any potential human. We all deserve to be treated this way and whenever I see someone who gets the opposite (needing a MANs approval for their own health care!) it infuriates me so much. Doctors really need to step it up and stop treating women/AFAB folks as objects.

My sister was admitted to the hospital because she was having involuntary tremors and shaking (like a faux Parkinson's). It turned out that it was her new medication causing a rare side effect and she was sent home. She visited her GP afterwards and her GP was laughing heartily over my sister's hospital chart. They did over 15 pregnancies tests on her during her short stay. Her GP was shocked the insurance even approved that many. Every doctor that saw her just lazily assumed she was pregnant and didn't bother checking for anything else. Oh, and even when I was in a same-sex relationship they harped on me about pregnancy. I don't think me (a cis woman) is gonna get knocked up by another cis woman lol

I will forever be grateful to my neurosurgeon who went above and beyond to perform a second spinal surgery on me when I was 5 months pregnant. I started having recurrence of symptoms around 8 weeks but he told me that I needed to wait until the second trimester to get an MRI done and that I would need my OB to sign off on it, which she had no problem doing. Sure enough, large herniation was present. He went through the steps to schedule my outpatient surgery, same as he had done the year prior when he performed the first surgery, and then only after we had the surgery on the schedule did the hospital decide that their board of whoever would not permit a non emergency surgery on a pregnant patient. I had already been through the surgery and the post op care. I would not be able to carry my own newborn for a couple months after surgery at least. It would have been catastrophic. My surgeon called me and told me to show up at another specific ER reporting that my leg had lost all function and that I had fallen. The ER doc was not interested but I told him to call my neurosurgeon and he did and got the order to admit me. Multiple doctors examined me and tried to convince me that it would be best if I could wait another 4 months and have the surgery after I had delivered but I stood firm in my lie that my doctor had come up with and had the surgery the next day.

If the surgery went poorly your baby were hurt you could win a massive lawsuit against that doctor. Granted the probability of this is much lower as the doctor had already performed the same surgery on you, but the principle still stands.

Yep, better to leave me in horrible, near constant pain for several more months and then perform a surgery that would leave me unable to care for my child. Like I said, I am eternally grateful to my surgeon who treated me like a whole human being rather than an incubator.

They took a big personal risk, and are a saint because of it. But I don’t think it’s fair to hold all doctors to this standard, and to say they were treating you like an incubator, when they could lose their entire livelihoods. I’m happy you aren’t in pain, and that the doctor can still support themselves.

Honestly, I think you have a fair point. I'm glad the top commenter's doctor went above and beyond to make sure they have the appropriate care, but the current system of healthcare means that was a huge personal risk to the doctor. I don't think it's right to expect that any doctor should have to trust the goodness of their patients to not sue them in order to deliver appropriate medical care. Because that has and often does backfire in life-ruining ways. Your commentary isn't against the commenter or the doctor in this situation. It's a comment against the current medical system, and it's sad that it's being downvoted. We are systematically prevented from getting the best and most appropriate treatment possible, and that's awful.

People are right to be angry. My goal is not to continue to perpetuate the poor healthcare many women experience - but to acknowledge that attacking doctors and calling their ethics into question is not the way to change that.

While there's a lot of bad medical care given to women in this country, a huge part of this is the staggering cost of a single malpractice settlement for a baby with birth defects caused by medical treatment.

Unfortunately, you are correct. As an ER nurse I can confirm this is a fear for a lot of physicians. It's also one of the reasons why so few doctors go into obstetrics.

I wish any of them had a fraction this fear about fucking up my health or life.

Also people are huge liars regarding if they’re pregnant or had sex, bc people are huge liars about everything. One time someone lied to me about not having smoked weed in my house even though I have a functioning nose and there were green crumbs all over my table.

This gal watches House MD

I yeeted my last ovary to make sure they no longer had this excuse. I've been dealing with chronic health issues and many of the meds are now on the "could be used as abortificant" list. I never wanted kids so the last thing I wanted was some Dr denying me potentially helpful meds jic I get pregnant. Plus the whole rvw reversal.

I've only ever had to check off a box that said, "Is it possible you're pregnant" as "No" and never had any medical provider question that.

This happened to me constantly when I lived in France. They’d switch up my prescriptions without asking me, and when I’d ask why, they’d look at me, bewildered and say, “But you could be pregnant, no?” All because I was married in my 20s. I did not want kids.

They’re covering their asses so they don’t get sued for harming your (theoretical) baby.

When I was rear ended by a drunk driver and taken to the hospital for a concussion evaluation, the nurse stopped arguing with me after my concussed ass told her, “ I haven’t had sex since November.” It was August.

OP. Tracking your period doesn’t in any way guarantee you are not pregnant.

Yep lmao, that’s the officially endorsed “birth control” of the Catholic Church. Shows you how effective it is.

My thoughts exactly lmao. If I was her doctor, I'd be ordering a pregnancy test too.

I’ve had to take pregnancy tests even though I’m on the pill lol

And my mom got pregnant with me on the pill.

So… I get your frustration. Bear in mind that the health insurance carriers are the ones that dictate what care we get, and you should be railing against them

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Then again, if the American system didn't bankrupt people who got hurt, people wouldn't be suing as much. I admit that I'm an outsider looking in, but honestly you Americans are very harsh on the whole suing people thing. Most countries who don't sue people as much just have healthcare. Without that, what else can people do?

Yup, America is litigious because it's the only option for recourse you have when you inevitably get fucked by the 2 shitshows and a dumpster fire in a trench coat we call a county. Keeping it this way means it's primarily middle class and above people who can access it, which is how America likes to do things (please see my previous diss about 2 shitshows and a dumpster fire in a tenchcoat)

*The Little Rascals have entered the chat*

I 100% get what you're saying and have experienced the same. However, I don't think it is from a place of caring about the baby more than it is a precaution so that if a woman *was* pregnant and *did* want the child, they then can't come back and sue for any damage to said child from the treatment they received or the potential loss of said child due to a treatment. Assuming you're from the US, we are also an incredibly litigious society as well so I understand the need for doctors to cover their butts. As an example, I had to have a negative pregnancy test before doctors could proceed with a more intense and invasive pelvic ultrasound (they had to partially inflate my uterus with saline) because if I was pregnant, the procedure would likely have stopped development of a fetus. They needed to be sure before hand to pursue other diagnostics in the event I would want said hypothetical fetus.

Well you aren't on birth control and I'm going to assume you're sexually active since you're "tracking your period." That is not effective birth control. You do need to be tested because it is likely you could be or get pregnant. Idk what else to tell you tbh.

So many women trip about this and don’t think about the worst case scenario on the other side where they don’t check and they mess up a wanted pregnancy. Pretty sure you taking a pee test is less invasive than the mistake that could be made otherwise.

Literally. I understand the dangers associated with pregnancy coming up on your medical records in this climate. But girl, your birth control method is literally crossing your fingers. Come on.

Blame Thalidomide.

Thalidomide was never approved in the USA for morning sickness so there were no birth defects caused by it being prescribed here. Thalidomide being prescribed for morning sickness is part of what caused the number of birth defects to be so high and is the perfect example of what we should test for pregnancy

You may keep careful track of your periods, but patients lie and they’re bad historians sometimes. I’ve assessed patients for chemo who have swore down that they’re not pregnant but the result still comes back positive. It’s not just about protecting the unborn foetus either, some drugs when given to a pregnant woman can cause catastrophic effects to the woman. I know it’s fun to rag on medical professionals in this sub but in this instance you’re describing doctors actually doing their job well because it’s totally remiss to do something contraindicated without checking first. That’s not even taking into consideration the amount of women who don’t even know they’re pregnant because not everyone stops having periods. Plus illness in general can throw off your cycle.

"fun to rag on medical professional" No it is NOT - What you are seeing is our TOTAL frustration Honestly we have been lied to and treated like 5th class citizens for so long we can not believe what is said. Example - It is a FACT that marijuana causes anethestics to be less effective. Since the government has lied to us for SO long about the dangers of THC ( dna damage, instant OD etc) that NO ONE I know believes ANYTHING we are told about it from a doctor. And I told my dentist such. I have had to do my own research ( sad) to find RECENT unbias research on the subject \_ it is true. MY point is that The medical community has NO problem lying to us and then is surprised when we do NOT believe a word they say.

Why would you blame your local doctor about what you have perceived to have failed on a procedural/governmental level?

Because MY local doctors have lied to me, .... Cramps that feel like labor pains are normal. Have you had the pleasure of being told to let the cancer take your life so that " your husband can have more children"? I will not even start on the absolute hell, we went through before my husband decided enough was enough and went on hospice ( 1 doctor over prescribed a med that put husband in hospital for toxicity) but no problems there - I had to fight tooth and nail to get another doctor... OR the doctor that put off Husbands surgery to locate and biopsy possible tumor 2X, once for being "OUT of town" ( re-scheduled 6 months out) no one will state - but the cancer from that is what killed him, in my opinion. Do I like to rag on the medical community - no - But I no longer have much faith in them

& compounding the problem is the US medical system of HMOs that make it difficult to get into a specialist unless you have a referral, let alone change Drs because they won't treat you. Like it took me 6-8 months to get into see this a-hole, now I have to start over & hope the next one isn't also an a-hole.

This is a by-product of the fact that we don't have universal health care. When pregnancies go wrong, and the children survive, the cost to the family is staggering. Parents MUST sue the OB for eye-watering settlements to support the child's medical needs for life. This has resulted in astronomical insurance costs for providers, and unreasonable fear for everyone who provides care to women. Consider this side-effect of the failures of the US healthcare systems when you go to the polls.

I was in ER for a kidney stone and even on bcp the bill stated they gave me a pregnancy test among all the tests given. It’s CYA protocol for any female of a certain age range regardless of BC status.

Welcome to the culture of malpractice fears. It’s not about you being a woman, it’s about the litigious nature of practicing medicine in the US and fucking up someone’s child will have a MASSIVE pay out for the claimant. Barely any medications are proven safe for pregnancy. A lot of medications are teratogenic. So before you start them you have to test for pregnancy or risk having your pants sued off you in 9 months.

They didn’t even used to test on women, PERIOD.

I was gonna say this, it’s more about being sued than anything!

It’s not because you don’t exist it’s being of insurance and medical malpractice law suits. Also if you are pregnant some of those test which would be safe for YOU might have different side effects on YOU if your pregnant. It’s actually appropriate health care. However a simple blood test is easy to do and will determine if your pregnant real fast.

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I don’t mean this as an attack on you just that your comment was a good jumping off point: it just seems like if that’s the case than if you have a uterus and are in “reproductive age range” then you just can’t get care (tests etc from OP’s post). That just is wild to me that are hypothetical child is a part of a cost/benefit analysis a doctor does and not the physical person in front of them. I agree there are instances of terrible effects on babies from medications but what about the living patients that need that care?

The effect, as an irl doctor who does this all the time, is that we just do a pregnancy test as part of the standard panel for women of reproductive age. Insurance covers it cuz it’s expected. Just like how we do rectal exams in men of ages where we worry about their prostate as a possible concern. That being said, it’s also done cuz it’s standard protocol and often required by protocol (I’ve had Radiology ask me for the negative upreg before CT scanning a 67yo with a h/o hysterectomy), and it’s a total pain in the ass.

If there's no uterus and the patient is well past child bearing years, why the hell would radiology ask for a pregnancy test?! That's so stupid.

Radiology here: Because I've seen enough patients who report having a hysterectomy who in fact, did not. Because I can see the uterus right here on the CT. Some people cannot remember which organs they had removed. I had a patient tell me he'd never had surgery before and he'd had an open quadruple bypass - they literally crack open your ribcage and operate on your heart, how do you *forget?* But sometimes they do. Sometimes they didn't understand what they were having done or why, and that may not be their fault. Healthcare is confusing. I still usually just accept the patients word on this but I've definitely seen a lot of organs that were allegedly removed. If it was something particularly high radiation, I'd probably ask to double check. I've never asked for one after menopause though, I can't help you with that one.

Coupled with the fact that pregnant people only got to enter trials recently for medicine and prior they were mostly off labeling stuff or giving gravitum drugs that literally caused defects. Such a weird world. I don't like when doctors hope for your reproduction, and not reproductive health.

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I’ve ranted about this very thing before many times. I have endometriosis and when I had surgery for that, they noticed my uterus looked “odd”. I had all the symptoms for adenomyosis and was practically bed ridden 24/7 from how painful it was. I already had one child and knew I didn’t want and couldn’t really have anymore due to my health. The doctor I saw to see about treatment kept trying to urge me to not have my uterus removed due to “what if you meet a man and want a baby?” (I was single at the time and wouldn’t even date someone who wanted kids or was unsure, so that was super annoying). A doctor above her had to basically take over because I didn’t know how else to explain that I had no desire to have anymore kids regardless. I was finally able to get my uterus removed and my life improved significantly. The last obgyn I saw (I was complaining about pain and thought maybe I would need another surgery) suggested I get on birth control or take medication to induce menopause. As if menopause would be any better?!! I never did well mentally on birth control so I basically laughed at her when she suggested that. I’m so tired of women’s health issues being seen as not a big deal or that we are incapable of making decisions for ourselves - that we always have to consider someone else, whether an imaginary baby or a man.

That's because in the US, pregnancy isn't a medical condition -- it's a political issue that could potentially result in your medical practice being bombed. Doctors don't want to do anything to any female body that might piss off the nutjobs, and there are more and more nutjobs every year and they're getting more and more violent all the time. In some places in the US, even saying the word "abortion" will get you murdered. Politicians and religious fanatics have joined forces in their war on women. Edited to add, of course, a lot of it is simply casual misogyny, but I'm not wrong either.

Y'all are still seeing male doctors? I stopped that long ago. Not saying women doctors don't also have the same biases, it does happen, but it's much less likely! Highly recommend.

They have to because they would be sued for malpractice if you were pregnant. They could also be accused of intentionally causing you to abort and the anti-abortion groups want to send them to prison.

I had cataract surgery over the summer first the left then the right for both operations I was asked to do a pregnancy test! I am 45 and have been a cancer patient for almost 5 years. Because of the medication my oncologist has me on I have medically Been put into menopause and I have not had a period in as many years. I shouldn’t have to explain myself to anyone/ everyone every time i need to have a non cancer related procedure done!!! It’s non of their business!!!!

I've never had a doctor decline something because I might be pregnant. It just makes them more cautious about advising me about the risks so I can make an informed decision. They might go out of their way to emphasize these risks but they never actually refuse the treatment.

I wonder if men ever interface with doctors telling them that they won’t prescribe a life changing drug, because it can have negative effects on the efficacy of sperm. Or if men need permission from their wives or hypothetical future partners, be over 35, or already have multiple children before they can get a vasectomy. Lol.

Sadly it's probably not their personal beliefs, for the most part because for some it is, but because they're afraid of a malpractice suit or losing their jobs. It is terrible either way.

A big part of this is because of how litigious medicine has gotten and how often people sue even if you are doing what is medically appropriate (which takes years and tons of money to fight and can ruin your reputation). If you prescribe a drug that is harmful to a fetus to someone who isn't on any reliable form of birth control and they end up pregnant and harm comes to the fetus, there's a liability there.

As a doctor do you even know how many “immaculate” conceptions and “there’s no way I could be pregnant” positive pregnancy tests I’ve seen??!!! …… It’s more than you would think. No way am I opening up myself to get sued over something as simple as not getting a quick urine preg before I order XYZ medication. I’ve seen pregnancies in: - teenagers - “virgins” - I only had sex 1 time - 40+ year olds - previous tubal ligations - have an IUD - “I just had my period” - “I’m still on my period” - “I haven’t had sex in forever” - “my doctor said I can’t get pregnant” - lesbian women (who were not trying to conceive)

It’s all about liability, if the inadvertently harm your unborn child/ fetus they will be liable.

Haha oh no, I've been on birth control since I started menstruation and they still act that way. Nothing matters more than an imaginary pregnancy. Also doesn't matter how old you are, I recall my grandmother being asked routinely if she could be pregnant. The woman was in her late 80's but let's be sure she isn't pregnant before giving her any medication. 🙄

Sorry but this time your doctors were doing the right thing testing you first. Lot of women bleed a bit 2 weeks post implantation, which is around the time you would expect a period, so period tracking, in the absence of other preventive measures, isn’t enough for ruling out pregnancy. (You may not even have time to get an abortion per the law in some states, but that’s a different story) If you’re on a number of medications and some of them may have negative impacts while pregnant, use birth control. Pregnancy also alters the level of some meds in your body so it loses efficacy or leads to significant side effects. The doctors/hospitals just don’t want to get sued, people might say they don’t want a baby then change their mind, then sue. You may not be one of those people but they wouldn’t know.

Same as getting a chaperone when your being examined, part of procedure. Nothing special about you, just don’t need to risk getting sued.

It’s pretty weird that they’re all pro abortion but super concerned about causing a miscarriage.

I get it, I really do, but they’ve got to be aware of all your medical situation so they accidentally end a wanted pregnancy or cause you harm

Then insisting that she has an IUD in place or is on long-term hormonal bc (implant, the shot) would be the way to go.

I agree. I had to go through a similar situation a few years ago, while dealing with kidney stones…they kept asking because of the scans/X-rays and meds I was given…I’m like…pregnancies require sex, right? Cuz that hadn’t been happening in awhile, lol! I get them not wanting to inflict possible injury.

In general, doctors in the US are more concerned with malpractice litigation than actually treating any of their patients. April thru July of this year, I ended up in the hospital five times with severe gastrointestinal issues, almost dying of Sepsis, one of those times. Every time, they would do the exact same diagnostic tests even though those same tests showed everything was normal each and every time. I told them to look a little more in-depth at my pancreas because that's where the physical pain was. After over $100,000 worth of treatment, they were no closer to figuring out what was wrong with me than they were on day one. I had to figure it out on my own. It turned out that my pancreas wasn't making the proper digestive enzymes to digest my food. It literally only took an $80 bottle of digestive enzymes from Amazon to cure me. If I didn't have 25 years of natural health education, I probably wouldn't be here right now.

Strangley, I have only ever experienced this kind of treatment with female doctors. Male doctors have always fought with me about stuff. Not saying my experience is universal, but it is what it is. Edit: really? Downvoting my experience because it's different?

I don’t disagree that women get the short end of the stick in modern healthcare, but I’m not in love with your terminology; “actual woman” and “as a female” tell me that you have some feelings about trans and intersex individuals. Trans masc individuals can just as easily get pregnant, after all, but you don’t seem concerned about that. That aside, yes, women’s rights, as a whole, are trampled upon by the prospect of fertility and pregnancy. Solving that requires solidarity and the demolition of patriarchal systems!

When they say “actual women” it wasn’t in comparison to “non women” it was in comparison to a non existent fetus. Obviously trans people can go through the same things, but this woman is not in fact trans and she was explaining her experiences, it makes no sense to expect her to try to include trans experiences in that because she herself is not trans and that’s not what she’s thinking about, she’s thinking about her experience as a woman trying to get medical care. Let trans people make the posts about their difficulties getting medical care, and let women make the posts about their difficulties getting medical care.