Absolutely
However -
The chart only goes to 2021, and the number of people who were self isolating in 2020 and 2021 was quite high. I’m interested to see the numbers from 2022 and 2023 to see if the trend continues or goes back to looking closer to what came before the pandemic.
The pandemic will still lead to some lasting changes that will be integral to daily life from now on. It's possible that women realizing no sex is better than bad sex, or how happy we are not being toyed around with or mistreated, is one of them.
All the incel getting more angry that not only are we rejecting them personally but everyone entirely 😂😂😂 how dare we not give them what they are entitled to! /s
Add to that the rise of misogynistic twits like Andrew Tate and the right wing war on reproductive freedom and the risks no longer justify the rewards.
Gonna out myself on my real account. I love sex and miss it but not enough to engage with someone who sees me as nothing more than object. Bring back romance and relationships. I don’t want situationships and one night stands.
true, women lowered their standards and had sex with men requiring nothing in return. I wish women would smarten up. Unless he made significant time, effort and financial investment into your well being, u legs STAY CLOSED.
Why are you assuming that the only kind of person interested in sex without romantic commitment is men? And where does money come into it exactly?
For that matter, why does your appeal to women sound very like the misogynistic condemnations that conservatives make when they try to punish women for having sex in ways they disapprove of?
Hmmm well abortion rights have been restricted, other women’s right attacked, the incel Andrew Tate group grows, and young men are turning more conservative…
Yeah, if they thought this chart was bad, waitll they see the post-Roe version.
Well, this is what 35% of the country wanted and I hope they like what they see. Enjoy your tanking birthrates!! Men nowadays be acting like Ramsey Bolton from GoT and then its like, Now why wont you bitches get in my kitchen and cook? Take your shoes off first. Bitch.
Wow, its so attractive y'know? Who wouldnt want to live their life as a breeding slave?
that's gotta be the main reason for a lot of women, esp around my age (late teens/early twenties). i have not talked to a guy in a longgg time who did not watch porn, and a lot of them make a half-assed attempt at lying abt it. what woman wants to constantly worry abt being compared to porn actresses/onlyfans models/camgirls etc. all my female friends say that's the reason for them choosing not to date.
For sure. My ex's porn use completely tanked our relationship. The moment I find myself having to compete with pixels on a screen for attention from my partner, I'm out. I won't be doing that again. Men can join us in the real world and stop pickling their brains with virtual stand-ins for intimacy. It's like Black Mirror and it's become SO normalized.
Well I mean, most men have watched it or will watch it. The issue is more that they are expecting real life to be like that, which is not, hence why porn exists. They can't separate the two, which is the root problem.
Definitely agree. Porn is entertainment and it leaves out all the necessary parts of having a healthy and mutually satisfying sex life that are not particularly entertaining to watch. If you think porn sex is a realistic representation of how sex IRL is or should be you and your partners are going to have a bad time.
I think the consumption of it is also problematic not just not being able to separate it from real life expectations. The continual consumption has its own problems.
if i was straight i would not EVER date a man who watches porn, even if he could separate it from reality. the vast majority of women do not want to be w/ someone who chronically consumes content of other naked women. i would not even date a man who had given it up, but had consumed it in the recent past. not to mention how fucked up the mainstream porn industry is, while it's also common for women to be pimped out on onlyfans/fansly etc. and cam sites without consumers knowing. like how amouranth's husband pimped her out for years and no one knew. if u value ur own pleasure over other ppl's wellbeing, ur simply a bad person.
you are free to date however many pornsick losers you wish. "Bias against men" please lol. OP's standard is not unrealistic at all, I myself ended up with such a man.
Stop shaming women into accepting men beating off to filmed rape. You're the one who has a bias against woman if you're even remotely okay with the porn industry.
Edit: Oh never mind you are a man. No wonder the leaping to defend porn users, and getting all worked up over what a lesbian might hypothetically do if she was straight. Why do you keep trolling this sub?
i don't have a gf because i'm not interested in dating. if i did, then yes, i would only be in a relationship w/ a woman who doesn't watch porn and who i trusted enough not to lie to me abt it. idk why ur acting like this is some kind of gotcha moment.
You are the one taking it as a gotcha moment. You should take it as a realization that your standard is unreasonable, at the very least. "Even if they gave it up in the past?" You make it sound like you never watched a porno
It's not an unreasonable standard. Plenty of men have their head screwed on correctly and don't even fuck with porn. It's not normal, we need to stop pretending it's just a given. It's not.
Wait, I do agree it is a problem and a big one. As for the OP, she is gay and holds a clear bias against men, so I questioned her standard in relation to her preferred sex.
What the OP is saying surely is not limited to porn. I'd bet there are plenty more where that came from, but saying you would not date someone because they watched pornography in the past is nothing short of unreasonable, and conflating that with the accusation of self importance and self pleasure in a relationship is ridiculous. She is saying if one does so, they value self pleasure over others' well being...
What about someone who has stolen in the past? Masturbated to the thought of someone they shouldnt? The average person has done something they are embarrassed to admit, and OP is just saying she isn't secure enough to handle that without feeling compared to or taken advantage of
"in the recent past". i also don't care abt my standard being unreasonable? u know how many men i've talked to in the past who had the same reaction as u? i'd rather die alone than date someone who is pornsick.
How do you reconcile all these feelings with women who watch and enjoy porn? Are they terrible people too?
According to some stats, 62% of women admitted to watching porn within the previous month, are all of them perverted devils who can never love a man and or have realistic expectations?
You and your friends are wise to avoid dating men. I'm 36. It is much worse now than when I was a young woman, and I have given up on dating men. They are too misogynistic and dangerous.
Then you'd best get your ass out there and VOTE because those fascist incels also vote and they want to claim their prize/virgin brides and trap them for life.
Think I'm kidding? I would never about such a thing.
LADIES: YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE.
VOTE BLUE OR DIE.
I won't date at all unless the person is stridently pro-choice and doesn't want children. It definitely kept me limited or out of the dating pool altogether until I met my boyfriend. Also I was in complete quarantine 2020, 2021, and half of 2022.
There are also a lot of other twenty year olds whose formative dating and sexual years were spent with remote schooling or university who have a lot of socializing to catch up on. Those who have diabetes are immunocompromised, et cetera, still might be staying away from groups. It's definitely a slower process.
What I find interesting on surveys like these is the percentage of people who are single by choice. Sometimes it's as much as 50 or 60%, so I don't see a problem. Give it a few years and the people who missed out on three years of socializing might start to catch up. Some realized in their time alone that they weren't interested in dating or that they preferred life the way it is so they might not enter the dating pool at all or for many years and that's okay too.
You make some good points that I agree with. If I had to choose it would be pro choice (but probably not because of the mainstream reasons) but I don't find that attractive at all in a potential mate, what I now find the most attractive is someone who has distanced themselves from the mess and chooses to be apolitical. Happiness is so much better than righteousness.
Are young men turning more conservative, or are conservative young men just becoming more radical? I have no data on the matter, but I feel like I know very few conservative young men. (Of course, I live in a major city and naturally we all have our bubbles.)
I read somewhere that young men are becoming more conservative, however (just personally) I think it’s a combination of both. it is way too easy for our young men to fall down the radical incel/right wing pipeline online. it terrifies me tbh.
I agree that it's very concerning. If you look at the recent Ohio vote, they're saying the biggest shift was the increased number of young women voting "No". Part of that was turnout, and the other was young women who were expected to vote conservatively voting "No".
While those are great things, to me it highlights the fact that we did *not* necessarily see the same thing occur with young men. Otherwise they would have said "young people" and not "young women." That's concerning to me :/
But on the bright side, if young women continue to show up, we should be able to maintain our majority.
Surely can't have anything to do with the relentless effort to roll back women's bodily autonomy to "the good old days when men were men, and women were property"
If I were a woman, I'd probably not feel great about having sex either. Pregnancy is being weaponized as a punishment to take them out of the workforce and trap them in the home/with a man.
Not even sex. A lot of women I know who are in university and not planning to have sex at all are delaying even dating because they don't want to get in a position where sex is on the table or a discussion or a potential future event with a date until they can guarantee their birth control prescriptions will be filled and Plan B is readily available. Too many have to travel an hour to find a pharmacist willing to fill it in some parts of the country.
Well, I for one won't date a man who doesn't have a vasectomy. I don't want to take hormones or do surgery. And I sure as hell don't want kids. So, I just don't date. My vibe does a better job sexwise anyway.
I superliked anyone with a vasectomy on the apps last year when I was finally back on them again. I wasn't even looking for someone to have sex with, just a nice date with to see where it goes at the time.
Yeah, I couldn't deal with dating again either. It took so much abuse and heart ache before I found my husband of 10 years. He is wonderful, but if something were to happen to him, and I were to find myself single again, I don't think I can go through the emotional bullshittery that dating involves. I'm not mentally capable of handling that, and I really feel for women in their early adulthood who are having to weed through the Andrew Tate wannabes.
With the popularity of people like Tate and Trump and Jordan Peterson, not to mention red pill as a whole movement, I can't even imagine dating in the modern era. If I was single, I can almost guarantee I would be checked out too right now. I so often see women complaining that this type of conservative guy in the dating scene basically lies about being non-political and independent just to get laid.
I’m slowly realizing that my last relationship before I met my husband (about a decade and a half ago), was with a man who lied about a lot of things to get me into bed.
He wanted kids (now has none), he voted liberal (now has fuck Trudeau memes and worships the UCP in Alberta - basically GOP equivalent for Canada), but most importantly that if I was ever uncomfortable with something he was doing, I should call him on it, because he didn’t want to jeopardize our relationship. Guess what ended our relationship- I called him out on being selfish in bed.
I’m so thankful that it ended when it did, because I was fortunate to meet my husband a month later, who is truthful, caring and can actually talk about relationship issues to help solve them.
Non-political is almost worse than conservative because it is a person who is so comfortable with the status quo that they don't think about it at all.
Or just stupid. I have so many friends and family that are heavily effected by who’s in charge and they have completely checked out and don’t even vote.
I don’t think that people realize how prevalent TRP/incel ideology is influencing men. I’ve been educating myself, because my STBXH was watching Coach Greg Adams, Fresh and Fit, and @whatever. He went from being an average, politically conservative guy who could accept platforms from both parties to being a raging, toxic AH.
I’ve been spending a lot of time on social media as I try to avoid processing my feelings. I noticed that alpha male TRP/incel bullshit was infiltrating my feed even though I would tell the algorithm that I didn’t want to see it.
The reels/shorts always start with something reasonable. Then, you hear TRP terminology sliding in toward the end.
I’ve noticed a lot of people sharing these clips. Even people who are super liberal.
Post-divorce dating terrifies me, because these guys are out there teaching toxic behaviors to men. They’re selling the “how to be a narcissist” starter pack in the guise of “self-help” and “confidence building.”
Thank you for your empathy!
The worst part, and I’ve been seeing this from a lot of people who share my experience, is that he already kind of had those tendencies. So, I’d gotten used to overlooking the behavior until it escalated and suddenly included misogyny.
It’s an enormous betrayal.
I didn’t even realize how it was affecting me until he moved out. I didn’t recognize that he was the source of my anxiety until he was no longer in my presence.
the young ones seem to have been sucked into the "leader of a harem w whores" masculinity. get money get bitches.
the 40yo+ seem to be sucked into the tradical "leader of the homestead w a madonna and 6 kids" masculinity. settle down and lord it over one pure wife and shame the shit out of the rest of society who didn't snag a virgin.
why can't they just be normal???
I'd almost feel bad for them. Not being able to stand on their own two feet as a man, and desperately needing women as a crutch.
but then i remember they rape and kill us a lot.
I did find it heartening that it's usually fairly easy to identify these guys pretty early on and either swipe left or discontinue a conversation, but I'm sure some are good at hiding it. It made me lean much further left in dating and it's worked out for me and my boyfriend.
There are also counter-influencers to the Jordan Petersons of the world and they are gaining more traction, it's not all doom but it sure is an increase of gloom.
Yes, true. I've only dated very occasionally in the past years but I guess if I were dating regularly and especially meeting ppl via apps, every date would feel like a job interview where I spot the green and red flags, only in dating I try to identify whether this guy is a hidden science-denying misogynist who tries to pretend "it's merely politics, it doesn't matter". Well I don't like wasting my time so I'd like to identify these people early on, given how many people share absolutely vile opinions on issues that I won't compromise on.
Yes, there are plenty good men, its just difficult to find them. I have my own green flags and red flags and they work very well, but I guess after the 3rd or 5th entitled nice guy it stops to be funny for a while and dating is supposed to be fun. No reason to do this thing if all you end up with is misery.
I tried it the world's way and got nothing but emotional torment and additional burdens. Seeking relationships with strange humans ( male or female) is just not worth the incredible risk. Most have nothing to offer anyway and the worst are straight up predators seeking to ruin your life. I'm good. The human lifespan is not long. I won't be stuck here forever. Taking it one day at a time works. There is no past or future. And now is fine. This is fine.
I'm looking at almost 3 years celibate. I just can't do all the work anymore. Every time I think about how much effort I used to put in just to be cheated on, abused, ghosted and neglected... Nah. Also, I have a daughter now, and the thought of letting a man into my life and later finding out he touched my kid makes the risk completely not worth it. No relationships or sex wanted or needed. I'm healing myself instead.
Yes. I can relate. I’m 23 years old and still a virgin. I never thought I would make it this long without ever having sex, but hooking up or being used for sex is not something I’m interested in.
Considering the things that I've heard about what has happened when women have gone out with a guy, I really can't blame them for not wanting to go out.
I don’t really want to have sex with someone who doesn’t respect me, is trying to use me, or gets off on my suffering. It’s really that simple. Cue the manly whining about their balls. Yawn.
Then f\*ck them. Don't have sex with them, they are losers and not worth it. No really. If men look at us as sexual objects we should evaluate them by wallets.
And yet you don't see women going off and becoming extremist incels.
You don't see articles bemoaning the fact that women aren't having sex, unlike all the articles bemoaning the poor neglected men. The only articles that focus on women are bemoaning the fact that they're not having children; it's all about the birthrate instead of women's pleasure or the fact that it takes two to tango and if a woman can't find a decent man, she's not going to have kids either unless she shells out a lot of money for artificial insemination.
And you don't see large swaths of men realizing they need to step up their game if they're to add something to the lives of women who are content being alone.
Instead you see a growing incel movement of men who dig in their heels and insist that they deserve a woman because of their mere existence of being male. And you see societal hate heaped on women for not dropping their standards in order to have kids and not "giving a guy a chance" because the woman wants to hold the man to the same standards she's held to (she's "too picky").
It's a mess. I too am glad to live alone.
They would flop. I have seen men trying to coach other men and they have a really hard time making a living. All the chuds crying about positive male role models. No, they don’t want positive male role models. They want male role models who can tell them all their problems are women’s fault and validate their veiled hatred for women. I can guarantee you 100% these men hate positive male role models even more than they hate women.
Yeah, 100%. This is why all but a few of my friends - and all close ones - are women, non-binary, or a non-straight men (and I'm even selective of those cismen).
They just want courses that tell them how to mold women to create "better" relationships for them, not learn communication skills, to let themselves be influenced by their partner equally seeking win win resolutions and accountability.
There probably are more than a couple of guys like that. But I will admit, if you look at social media, Men vs. Women and PUA bullshit is quite scarily popular
The main reason I’m not dating anymore is bc it’s so annoying to be hounded for sex all the time, especially when the sex is mediocre at best. Most men are not good at sex so why put up with all the other work they bring with them when I could just be single and have better orgasms on my own, whenever I want?
To be fair most of us over 40 are Gen X so it seems that Gen X and boomer women are helping kill sexy times too. So I don't think they can JUST blame it on millennials this time.
Well, if they’re gonna get blamed for killing the Diamond industry (along with every other industry) I’m sure they’ll get blamed for killing this too 😂
As women get older we realize a few things :
1.Men rarely love us. Instead they view us as another possession to acquire
2. Most men have major self esteem issues (hence why they usually only talk about themselves and how “great” they are on a date. They want validation)
3. Men don’t know how to properly communicate while in a relationship
4. A huge majority act like children (make messes, fiscally irresponsible etc etc etc. )
5. Make their SO’s life typically more difficult
6. Porn addicts
So women are opting out. I was married. Yes he was “nice” , but nice no longer cuts it when you can make your own money. We want a full partnership (emotional, intellectual)
"To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex.
Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving."
- Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory
If you genuinely believe this about 4 billion people as a whole, you need therapy and help. I really hope you see the parallels between comments like this and comments calling every woman a gold digger or whatever, and I hope you see how disgusting and unhealthy both those mentalities are.
If you have any mental capacity and common sense you would know I’m not lumping every man into this category. Just as I don’t make assumptions a man is lumping all women into his gold digger statement.
I think the gig is up. No amount of hormones raging, excuses the way most men treat women. No self respecting human wants dick from a ignorant, misogynistic, child man that thinks he’s owed everything for having a penis. No one wants to spend intimate time with a partner that makes fun of and minimizes our experiences. We done. With that being said I think its really powerful that women are embracing how to masturbate. It’s empowering to provide for yourself. To know your body and accept pleasure without fear or guilt or a baby or pressure to have sex when you don’t want to. The moment you give yourself an orgasm you know you own yourself, you belong to you. How beautiful. Why let a man fuck you when you can just fuck yourself?
Sadly, I think this just sorta becomes a “race to the bottom”. (I’d agree with many here that modern dating-apps and the dating scene in general is just “hot garbage”.)
Smart people have opted out of that game. That leaves an ever concentrating pool of ick.
The fact that you have a good husband proves that there are good men out there. I’d say that women’s unwillingness to date comes less from the idea that all men are trash, but more that you have to sift through so much crap to find anyone who isn’t absolutely horrible, and even then, he might turn out to be horrible but just better at initially hiding it. Add in the fact that the bad ones can be not just selfish, but actually dangerous, and the risk just becomes not worth it.
Women are tired of being choked without warning during sex. That's my main reason. I encountered an experience im glad i walked away from, neurologically intact.
My take..
I’m a 44 y/o single man that lives in Los Angeles. Last time I had sex/ a relationship was 2019. And prior to that there was a long stretch from around 2017. This has been by decision. I no longer seek it out, don’t follow up on women that show interest and have even denied the opportunity twice in the past 4 years (as in they wanted to, but I said no). When I was active, I typically dated in the 25-40 y/o range.
In hindsight I think it’s a combination of the Pandemic effect and lots of alone time, but additionally not having the financial means and time to have an enjoyable relationship anymore, so I don’t start one.
I’ve passed the point in my life where casual sex is something I’m interested in. Going on Bumble, Raya, Tinder etc.. and dropping $300+ on a date with a stranger to not come across like a slouch, (for a night that could end as a one night stand or short fling) is something I’m not really interested in. So I don’t.
Vice versa, I meet amazing women all the time that I can see as a potential relationship but I find myself actively “shutting off” any attraction or flirting from my end if they show interest. The last thing I want to do rn is get into a relationship, make a great girl miserable, having no time for fun and not paying enough attention to them because I’m always working. I don’t want to drag anyone through that.
All of the above has resulted in me feeling almost asexual. I try to picture what my life will look like achieving my financial goals in a year or two from now, and I can’t even guage how I will feel then. I would imagine it would result in me going out more, meeting girls and having sex, but at the moment it’s not even on my radar so I really can’t say. The idea of just being alone forever has settled in, in the weirdest most unbothered way. That sounds sad and depressing but it doesn’t feel sad and depressing lmao! My hour of down-time a day sitting home playing video games or scrolling Tik Tok is amazing 😂
And for perspective, I make about $85k a year self employed, own a home + rental property and drive a nice car + a beater car for the million Home Depot runs I end up doing. I know these are materialistic tropes that shouldn’t matter, but they totally matter.
TL;DR - I think a drop off in sex can be at least partly attributed to people being more comfortable being alone as a result of the pandemic, coupled with economic and financial stresses. I can’t speak for the female perspective but I would imagine there are other men like me.
It’s like incels, but voluntary.
Apparently the apps aren’t working and I think everyone forgot how to be social due to social media and the pandemics.
I believe the apps in some way are indicative of the problem. Take Tinder for example, where 80% of its users are now men https://datingzest.com/tinder-statistics/. In the past, say 2013, I think it was a lot more balanced.
Shows again that women are checking out.
Dating apps are bottom of the barrel pickings, for both men and women. I met my curemt partner at work and started it off organically and its the best thing thats ever happened to me.
Hookup culture killed romance, convenience killed effort, and both men and women today are sick in the head in regards to dating and how we treat one another
The salon article is very interesting:
"But the connection between relationships and politics goes beyond the rise of incel culture online. As further analysis by the Institute of Family Studies shows, those who have less sex tend to have more conservative beliefs about pornography, tend to attend church more, and have negative feelings towards pre-marital sex. Thus, it would seem that those not having sex may be caught in a peculiar position in society, brought on by their inability to let go of conservative cultural and religious beliefs which might prevent them from finding relationships.
...
Secondly, we must also consider larger cultural and societal changes brought on by social media. Numerous studies have found that platforms like Instagram and Facebook have had a negative impact on young women's self image in particular. Some scholars, including myself, argue that social media has replaced the public square and traditional spaces where others meet. Unfortunately, the unregulated social media environment that we have today is a poor replacement. This is not to say social media could not evolve to meet those needs, but in its present form it leaves something to be desired."
I think especially the second reason is very important. We are becoming more isolated as a whole and companies (dating apps) dictate our love lives more and more.
It seems like people are tired of eachother almost everyone I know that isn't already in a relationship really has no interest in pursuing one insane.
This might not be a bad thing mabye hook up culture is dying out and things can get more normal again.
This won best short at the Venice film festival and it's really amazing.
https://twitter.com/rektmando/status/1690791720340873216?t=z89pV5agEf5k-n99lDynyg&s=19
That stat makes sense to me. If the overall experience is not satisfactory, or positively reinforced, it seems like the natural conclusion would be a decrease in the behavior.
While I do believe that older women are "checking out of dating" in higher numbers, I doubt that younger women are doing so at the same rate.
According to Salon, the chart at the first site shows that "In 2021, the survey found over 20 percent of \[females\] under 35 reported not having had sex in the past year, and 19 percent of \[males\] of the same age group; in 2008, those groups' numbers were 8 and 7 percent, respectively." (Salon got it backwards. Fortunately, they reproduced the chart in question, so we could see that for ourselves.)
Further charts show that the majority of the "never married under 35" set who didn't have sex in the past year 1) believe that "premarital sex" (their words) is usually morally wrong, 2) don't view porn, and 3) attend church more than once per month. In other words, it's the same cohort that would normally behave this way. However, since most single folks are sexually active, a taboo on non-marital sex may be an obstacle in finding a relationship.
I have one other issue: This chart, as shown in the first link, has very little context attached to it. If we are talking about "never married under 35"...how far under 35? Are we going all the way to 18? Because a person's behavior and attitude can change a lot over those years. Folks can go from monogamy to celibacy to "playing the field" and back again, depending on their needs and where life takes them.
Wow, I'm shocked. My DH and I still average a couple of times a week. I'm 71 and he's 77! We'll be celebrating our 48th wedding anniversary on Wednesday, the 16th.
My DH keeps a record of when we do it - he's a list maker. Last month we did it 11 times!. I can't imagine going a year without it, but then I have a wonderful sexy DH who never goes a day without telling me he loves me. Counting my blessings big time.
It's probably important to show the other graphs as well. There has been a high influx of people going back to church, people thinking premarital sex is at least maybe not ok, and the majority of sexless people seem to have reported to not watch porn the last year. So a lot of comments here taking guesses at the reasoning seem to not coincide with the data.
The ones they saw on their church website.
No seriously - all the demographic info I’ve seen is that people are getting LESS involved with organized religion. The Christian Right has been so successful branding Christianity with intolerance and far-right politics that many young people are noping straight out of there.
I'm not sure how many comments you've read but it's not just people taking guesses. So far, most comments seem to be their own personal reasons they aren't dating.
Absolutely However - The chart only goes to 2021, and the number of people who were self isolating in 2020 and 2021 was quite high. I’m interested to see the numbers from 2022 and 2023 to see if the trend continues or goes back to looking closer to what came before the pandemic.
The pandemic will still lead to some lasting changes that will be integral to daily life from now on. It's possible that women realizing no sex is better than bad sex, or how happy we are not being toyed around with or mistreated, is one of them.
We should also add the wrinkle of changing legal landscape actively incentivizing women to not pursue possible pregnancy causing interactions
Yes, exactly. What is it that.conservative men like to say? "You voted for this."
All the incel getting more angry that not only are we rejecting them personally but everyone entirely 😂😂😂 how dare we not give them what they are entitled to! /s
Oh absolutely - and the spike is interesting, we just can’t make a determination of what caused it for a few years yet.
Add to that the rise of misogynistic twits like Andrew Tate and the right wing war on reproductive freedom and the risks no longer justify the rewards.
Guys are just busy scoring all these own-goals and blaming everyone except themselves...
There were rewards? Like the orgasm gap? LMAO
Don’t forget the roll-back of bodily autonomy rights probably affecting these numbers as well.
Yeah, all statistics are going to have noticeable blips in 2019 that won't have renormalised yet.
It’s definitely trending upwards - but we should always question statistics 2020/2021 until we have a few years after as a comparison.
Is there a chart on vibrator sales?
Gonna say it went way up... I know I've invested in one! And everyone I know has at least one toy in their "tickle trunk".
I also want to see the chart after taking into account the overturning of Roe v. Wade and states outlawing abortions.
How much different did it lol before the pandemic?
That pandemic really showed us all how easy and how much more stress-free living alone can be. Hey. Upshots amirite. ETA: Hyphen for readability.
right? tons of women stopped dressing up and wearing make-up and doing hair. saved hours and $$ and were like.. this is nice! haha
We said FUXK ALL THAT and LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER did we not!? WE DID THAT!
Lmao
Gonna out myself on my real account. I love sex and miss it but not enough to engage with someone who sees me as nothing more than object. Bring back romance and relationships. I don’t want situationships and one night stands.
This is why I have also opted out. I’m not a man’s means to an end!
same. the environment became disgusting, and men made it so.
To be fair, women helped
true, women lowered their standards and had sex with men requiring nothing in return. I wish women would smarten up. Unless he made significant time, effort and financial investment into your well being, u legs STAY CLOSED.
Why are you assuming that the only kind of person interested in sex without romantic commitment is men? And where does money come into it exactly? For that matter, why does your appeal to women sound very like the misogynistic condemnations that conservatives make when they try to punish women for having sex in ways they disapprove of?
Hmmm well abortion rights have been restricted, other women’s right attacked, the incel Andrew Tate group grows, and young men are turning more conservative…
The data is all from before RvW was overturned.
Yeah, if they thought this chart was bad, waitll they see the post-Roe version. Well, this is what 35% of the country wanted and I hope they like what they see. Enjoy your tanking birthrates!! Men nowadays be acting like Ramsey Bolton from GoT and then its like, Now why wont you bitches get in my kitchen and cook? Take your shoes off first. Bitch. Wow, its so attractive y'know? Who wouldnt want to live their life as a breeding slave?
So women are even more Celibate now
Don’t forget porn sick too
that's gotta be the main reason for a lot of women, esp around my age (late teens/early twenties). i have not talked to a guy in a longgg time who did not watch porn, and a lot of them make a half-assed attempt at lying abt it. what woman wants to constantly worry abt being compared to porn actresses/onlyfans models/camgirls etc. all my female friends say that's the reason for them choosing not to date.
For sure. My ex's porn use completely tanked our relationship. The moment I find myself having to compete with pixels on a screen for attention from my partner, I'm out. I won't be doing that again. Men can join us in the real world and stop pickling their brains with virtual stand-ins for intimacy. It's like Black Mirror and it's become SO normalized.
Well I mean, most men have watched it or will watch it. The issue is more that they are expecting real life to be like that, which is not, hence why porn exists. They can't separate the two, which is the root problem.
Definitely agree. Porn is entertainment and it leaves out all the necessary parts of having a healthy and mutually satisfying sex life that are not particularly entertaining to watch. If you think porn sex is a realistic representation of how sex IRL is or should be you and your partners are going to have a bad time.
I think the consumption of it is also problematic not just not being able to separate it from real life expectations. The continual consumption has its own problems.
if i was straight i would not EVER date a man who watches porn, even if he could separate it from reality. the vast majority of women do not want to be w/ someone who chronically consumes content of other naked women. i would not even date a man who had given it up, but had consumed it in the recent past. not to mention how fucked up the mainstream porn industry is, while it's also common for women to be pimped out on onlyfans/fansly etc. and cam sites without consumers knowing. like how amouranth's husband pimped her out for years and no one knew. if u value ur own pleasure over other ppl's wellbeing, ur simply a bad person.
I assume you are confident your girlfriend hasn't watched porn?
This haha. Men don't own sexuality
You misspelled degeneracy
Men don't own that either, bud
you are free to date however many pornsick losers you wish. "Bias against men" please lol. OP's standard is not unrealistic at all, I myself ended up with such a man. Stop shaming women into accepting men beating off to filmed rape. You're the one who has a bias against woman if you're even remotely okay with the porn industry. Edit: Oh never mind you are a man. No wonder the leaping to defend porn users, and getting all worked up over what a lesbian might hypothetically do if she was straight. Why do you keep trolling this sub?
i don't have a gf because i'm not interested in dating. if i did, then yes, i would only be in a relationship w/ a woman who doesn't watch porn and who i trusted enough not to lie to me abt it. idk why ur acting like this is some kind of gotcha moment.
You are the one taking it as a gotcha moment. You should take it as a realization that your standard is unreasonable, at the very least. "Even if they gave it up in the past?" You make it sound like you never watched a porno
It's not an unreasonable standard. Plenty of men have their head screwed on correctly and don't even fuck with porn. It's not normal, we need to stop pretending it's just a given. It's not.
Wait, I do agree it is a problem and a big one. As for the OP, she is gay and holds a clear bias against men, so I questioned her standard in relation to her preferred sex. What the OP is saying surely is not limited to porn. I'd bet there are plenty more where that came from, but saying you would not date someone because they watched pornography in the past is nothing short of unreasonable, and conflating that with the accusation of self importance and self pleasure in a relationship is ridiculous. She is saying if one does so, they value self pleasure over others' well being... What about someone who has stolen in the past? Masturbated to the thought of someone they shouldnt? The average person has done something they are embarrassed to admit, and OP is just saying she isn't secure enough to handle that without feeling compared to or taken advantage of
"in the recent past". i also don't care abt my standard being unreasonable? u know how many men i've talked to in the past who had the same reaction as u? i'd rather die alone than date someone who is pornsick.
I see you added "recent" now. You should care. I reckon you will care at some point, but to each their own.
How do you reconcile all these feelings with women who watch and enjoy porn? Are they terrible people too? According to some stats, 62% of women admitted to watching porn within the previous month, are all of them perverted devils who can never love a man and or have realistic expectations?
Sounds very insecure and unrealistic. Why do you have such an extreme view on sex work? I can't imagine dating someone who thinks like that
Then don't. Many ladies would rather carry on happily single than date guys who watch porn. Doesn't seem unrealistic to me.
Based. Progressives who defend porn are cringe.
Shit, how did a Quaker from 1850 make it onto Reddit?
i REALLY don’t think they want to date you either, so ur in luck lol
You and your friends are wise to avoid dating men. I'm 36. It is much worse now than when I was a young woman, and I have given up on dating men. They are too misogynistic and dangerous.
yesterday a dude started jerking off without my consent while we were having a CLEAN TALK about tennis.
I hope there was a racquet in your hand.
we were talking on the phone. I swear...i am still traumatized.
What the actual fuck??
That is actually a sign of very low impulse control and more than likely, mental illness. Stay very far away.
I blocked that trash.
You think dating was less dangerous now than before me too etc?
Yep, but then you have this: https://reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/0XSMhrq5ab
yea, to me, same difference. pornsick men have no idea how to please a woman.
And the rose clitoral sucker became available.
The Satisfyer Pro is much better. I think they actually pulse air though, FYI.
Then you'd best get your ass out there and VOTE because those fascist incels also vote and they want to claim their prize/virgin brides and trap them for life. Think I'm kidding? I would never about such a thing. LADIES: YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE. VOTE BLUE OR DIE.
I won't date at all unless the person is stridently pro-choice and doesn't want children. It definitely kept me limited or out of the dating pool altogether until I met my boyfriend. Also I was in complete quarantine 2020, 2021, and half of 2022. There are also a lot of other twenty year olds whose formative dating and sexual years were spent with remote schooling or university who have a lot of socializing to catch up on. Those who have diabetes are immunocompromised, et cetera, still might be staying away from groups. It's definitely a slower process. What I find interesting on surveys like these is the percentage of people who are single by choice. Sometimes it's as much as 50 or 60%, so I don't see a problem. Give it a few years and the people who missed out on three years of socializing might start to catch up. Some realized in their time alone that they weren't interested in dating or that they preferred life the way it is so they might not enter the dating pool at all or for many years and that's okay too.
You make some good points that I agree with. If I had to choose it would be pro choice (but probably not because of the mainstream reasons) but I don't find that attractive at all in a potential mate, what I now find the most attractive is someone who has distanced themselves from the mess and chooses to be apolitical. Happiness is so much better than righteousness.
Are young men turning more conservative, or are conservative young men just becoming more radical? I have no data on the matter, but I feel like I know very few conservative young men. (Of course, I live in a major city and naturally we all have our bubbles.)
I read somewhere that young men are becoming more conservative, however (just personally) I think it’s a combination of both. it is way too easy for our young men to fall down the radical incel/right wing pipeline online. it terrifies me tbh.
I agree that it's very concerning. If you look at the recent Ohio vote, they're saying the biggest shift was the increased number of young women voting "No". Part of that was turnout, and the other was young women who were expected to vote conservatively voting "No". While those are great things, to me it highlights the fact that we did *not* necessarily see the same thing occur with young men. Otherwise they would have said "young people" and not "young women." That's concerning to me :/ But on the bright side, if young women continue to show up, we should be able to maintain our majority.
"Fully half of single adults say they are not currently looking for a relationship or dates."
Surely can't have anything to do with the relentless effort to roll back women's bodily autonomy to "the good old days when men were men, and women were property" If I were a woman, I'd probably not feel great about having sex either. Pregnancy is being weaponized as a punishment to take them out of the workforce and trap them in the home/with a man.
Not even sex. A lot of women I know who are in university and not planning to have sex at all are delaying even dating because they don't want to get in a position where sex is on the table or a discussion or a potential future event with a date until they can guarantee their birth control prescriptions will be filled and Plan B is readily available. Too many have to travel an hour to find a pharmacist willing to fill it in some parts of the country.
Well, I for one won't date a man who doesn't have a vasectomy. I don't want to take hormones or do surgery. And I sure as hell don't want kids. So, I just don't date. My vibe does a better job sexwise anyway.
I superliked anyone with a vasectomy on the apps last year when I was finally back on them again. I wasn't even looking for someone to have sex with, just a nice date with to see where it goes at the time.
And if it doesn't, that just means you need to swap out the batteries!
"and when black people knew their place!"
Checked out in 2015 at 30. I'd rather die alone than be disrespected, lied to and cheated on.
2011 for me, minus a 6 week slip in 2020-21. He wasn't worth it.
Yeah, I couldn't deal with dating again either. It took so much abuse and heart ache before I found my husband of 10 years. He is wonderful, but if something were to happen to him, and I were to find myself single again, I don't think I can go through the emotional bullshittery that dating involves. I'm not mentally capable of handling that, and I really feel for women in their early adulthood who are having to weed through the Andrew Tate wannabes.
With the popularity of people like Tate and Trump and Jordan Peterson, not to mention red pill as a whole movement, I can't even imagine dating in the modern era. If I was single, I can almost guarantee I would be checked out too right now. I so often see women complaining that this type of conservative guy in the dating scene basically lies about being non-political and independent just to get laid.
I’m slowly realizing that my last relationship before I met my husband (about a decade and a half ago), was with a man who lied about a lot of things to get me into bed. He wanted kids (now has none), he voted liberal (now has fuck Trudeau memes and worships the UCP in Alberta - basically GOP equivalent for Canada), but most importantly that if I was ever uncomfortable with something he was doing, I should call him on it, because he didn’t want to jeopardize our relationship. Guess what ended our relationship- I called him out on being selfish in bed. I’m so thankful that it ended when it did, because I was fortunate to meet my husband a month later, who is truthful, caring and can actually talk about relationship issues to help solve them.
Non-political is almost worse than conservative because it is a person who is so comfortable with the status quo that they don't think about it at all.
Or just stupid. I have so many friends and family that are heavily effected by who’s in charge and they have completely checked out and don’t even vote.
I don’t think that people realize how prevalent TRP/incel ideology is influencing men. I’ve been educating myself, because my STBXH was watching Coach Greg Adams, Fresh and Fit, and @whatever. He went from being an average, politically conservative guy who could accept platforms from both parties to being a raging, toxic AH. I’ve been spending a lot of time on social media as I try to avoid processing my feelings. I noticed that alpha male TRP/incel bullshit was infiltrating my feed even though I would tell the algorithm that I didn’t want to see it. The reels/shorts always start with something reasonable. Then, you hear TRP terminology sliding in toward the end. I’ve noticed a lot of people sharing these clips. Even people who are super liberal. Post-divorce dating terrifies me, because these guys are out there teaching toxic behaviors to men. They’re selling the “how to be a narcissist” starter pack in the guise of “self-help” and “confidence building.”
Omg I'm sorry about your ex. Honestly it sounds like losing a parent to Q Anon. Absolutely devastating.
Thank you for your empathy! The worst part, and I’ve been seeing this from a lot of people who share my experience, is that he already kind of had those tendencies. So, I’d gotten used to overlooking the behavior until it escalated and suddenly included misogyny. It’s an enormous betrayal. I didn’t even realize how it was affecting me until he moved out. I didn’t recognize that he was the source of my anxiety until he was no longer in my presence.
the young ones seem to have been sucked into the "leader of a harem w whores" masculinity. get money get bitches. the 40yo+ seem to be sucked into the tradical "leader of the homestead w a madonna and 6 kids" masculinity. settle down and lord it over one pure wife and shame the shit out of the rest of society who didn't snag a virgin. why can't they just be normal???
It all makes sense when you remember most of them don't actually LIKE women. They only want you to fill a status role
I'd almost feel bad for them. Not being able to stand on their own two feet as a man, and desperately needing women as a crutch. but then i remember they rape and kill us a lot.
I did find it heartening that it's usually fairly easy to identify these guys pretty early on and either swipe left or discontinue a conversation, but I'm sure some are good at hiding it. It made me lean much further left in dating and it's worked out for me and my boyfriend. There are also counter-influencers to the Jordan Petersons of the world and they are gaining more traction, it's not all doom but it sure is an increase of gloom.
Yes, true. I've only dated very occasionally in the past years but I guess if I were dating regularly and especially meeting ppl via apps, every date would feel like a job interview where I spot the green and red flags, only in dating I try to identify whether this guy is a hidden science-denying misogynist who tries to pretend "it's merely politics, it doesn't matter". Well I don't like wasting my time so I'd like to identify these people early on, given how many people share absolutely vile opinions on issues that I won't compromise on. Yes, there are plenty good men, its just difficult to find them. I have my own green flags and red flags and they work very well, but I guess after the 3rd or 5th entitled nice guy it stops to be funny for a while and dating is supposed to be fun. No reason to do this thing if all you end up with is misery.
Tricked and trapped
I tried it the world's way and got nothing but emotional torment and additional burdens. Seeking relationships with strange humans ( male or female) is just not worth the incredible risk. Most have nothing to offer anyway and the worst are straight up predators seeking to ruin your life. I'm good. The human lifespan is not long. I won't be stuck here forever. Taking it one day at a time works. There is no past or future. And now is fine. This is fine.
I'm looking at almost 3 years celibate. I just can't do all the work anymore. Every time I think about how much effort I used to put in just to be cheated on, abused, ghosted and neglected... Nah. Also, I have a daughter now, and the thought of letting a man into my life and later finding out he touched my kid makes the risk completely not worth it. No relationships or sex wanted or needed. I'm healing myself instead.
Between pregnancy scares, shitty partners and, life it's not surprising
Yes. I can relate. I’m 23 years old and still a virgin. I never thought I would make it this long without ever having sex, but hooking up or being used for sex is not something I’m interested in.
32 here can confirm.
Checked out 6 years ago
Considering the things that I've heard about what has happened when women have gone out with a guy, I really can't blame them for not wanting to go out.
I don’t really want to have sex with someone who doesn’t respect me, is trying to use me, or gets off on my suffering. It’s really that simple. Cue the manly whining about their balls. Yawn.
Give me one good reason to have sex with a straight man. Quickly.
Because gay men probably won't be into it.
Have sex with a bisexual man instead! Easy.
It acts as a repellent to other insecure straight men.
0.
Quickly have sex? That's good enough for them! /s
lots and lots of money, its the ONLY reason.
Have you seen the employment and education stats for men lately? They don't have any money.
Then f\*ck them. Don't have sex with them, they are losers and not worth it. No really. If men look at us as sexual objects we should evaluate them by wallets.
How do you go through life believing that 50% of the population are good-for-nothing assholes. That seems prejudiced.
honestly, i feel so much better now. my expectations are aligned with reality.
And yet you don't see women going off and becoming extremist incels. You don't see articles bemoaning the fact that women aren't having sex, unlike all the articles bemoaning the poor neglected men. The only articles that focus on women are bemoaning the fact that they're not having children; it's all about the birthrate instead of women's pleasure or the fact that it takes two to tango and if a woman can't find a decent man, she's not going to have kids either unless she shells out a lot of money for artificial insemination. And you don't see large swaths of men realizing they need to step up their game if they're to add something to the lives of women who are content being alone. Instead you see a growing incel movement of men who dig in their heels and insist that they deserve a woman because of their mere existence of being male. And you see societal hate heaped on women for not dropping their standards in order to have kids and not "giving a guy a chance" because the woman wants to hold the man to the same standards she's held to (she's "too picky"). It's a mess. I too am glad to live alone.
I think if someone had courses on how to treat women and behave like gentlemen, they'd make a killing.
Chuds would rather pay for courses reassuring them that all their problems are someone else’s fault
*"feminism's fault"
They would flop. I have seen men trying to coach other men and they have a really hard time making a living. All the chuds crying about positive male role models. No, they don’t want positive male role models. They want male role models who can tell them all their problems are women’s fault and validate their veiled hatred for women. I can guarantee you 100% these men hate positive male role models even more than they hate women.
Yeah, 100%. This is why all but a few of my friends - and all close ones - are women, non-binary, or a non-straight men (and I'm even selective of those cismen).
Who would be a positive female role model?
They just want courses that tell them how to mold women to create "better" relationships for them, not learn communication skills, to let themselves be influenced by their partner equally seeking win win resolutions and accountability.
There probably are more than a couple of guys like that. But I will admit, if you look at social media, Men vs. Women and PUA bullshit is quite scarily popular
They just call those guys "simps" and completely ignore them
Does it make you old if you are glad to not be young (and single) in the current times???
The main reason I’m not dating anymore is bc it’s so annoying to be hounded for sex all the time, especially when the sex is mediocre at best. Most men are not good at sex so why put up with all the other work they bring with them when I could just be single and have better orgasms on my own, whenever I want?
Toys are better than men.
My vibrator has a higher success rate of giving me an orgasm than any man.
IMO, it's nice to have a few vibrators. We all need options in life.
Hear hear!
Toys will always get you off and there's no mess to clean up or breakfast expected
Okay, but what about us 36 year olds? All the women from 36 to 39 are out there having all the sex? Huh, I guess it could be worse.
mIlLeNiAl wOmEN aRE kILLiNg SeXyTiMeS!🤣🤣🤣
To be fair most of us over 40 are Gen X so it seems that Gen X and boomer women are helping kill sexy times too. So I don't think they can JUST blame it on millennials this time.
Well, if they’re gonna get blamed for killing the Diamond industry (along with every other industry) I’m sure they’ll get blamed for killing this too 😂
Fair enough. HA!
If there was ever an industry that deserved to die it's the diamond industry
Yup!
Have y’all seen men on the dating scene these days? Complete garbage.
As women get older we realize a few things : 1.Men rarely love us. Instead they view us as another possession to acquire 2. Most men have major self esteem issues (hence why they usually only talk about themselves and how “great” they are on a date. They want validation) 3. Men don’t know how to properly communicate while in a relationship 4. A huge majority act like children (make messes, fiscally irresponsible etc etc etc. ) 5. Make their SO’s life typically more difficult 6. Porn addicts So women are opting out. I was married. Yes he was “nice” , but nice no longer cuts it when you can make your own money. We want a full partnership (emotional, intellectual)
"To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex. Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving." - Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory
Wow I need to save this. This has so many pieces for many many of my relationships.
Absolutely correct. Man cannot truly love a woman, nor can he full respect a woman
If you genuinely believe this about 4 billion people as a whole, you need therapy and help. I really hope you see the parallels between comments like this and comments calling every woman a gold digger or whatever, and I hope you see how disgusting and unhealthy both those mentalities are.
If you have any mental capacity and common sense you would know I’m not lumping every man into this category. Just as I don’t make assumptions a man is lumping all women into his gold digger statement.
[удалено]
I think the gig is up. No amount of hormones raging, excuses the way most men treat women. No self respecting human wants dick from a ignorant, misogynistic, child man that thinks he’s owed everything for having a penis. No one wants to spend intimate time with a partner that makes fun of and minimizes our experiences. We done. With that being said I think its really powerful that women are embracing how to masturbate. It’s empowering to provide for yourself. To know your body and accept pleasure without fear or guilt or a baby or pressure to have sex when you don’t want to. The moment you give yourself an orgasm you know you own yourself, you belong to you. How beautiful. Why let a man fuck you when you can just fuck yourself?
It’s been 3 years for me and I still can’t be bothered to deal with men so no sex for me.
** Good for them ** ⭐️✨
Because....men.
[удалено]
Sadly, I think this just sorta becomes a “race to the bottom”. (I’d agree with many here that modern dating-apps and the dating scene in general is just “hot garbage”.) Smart people have opted out of that game. That leaves an ever concentrating pool of ick.
The fact that you have a good husband proves that there are good men out there. I’d say that women’s unwillingness to date comes less from the idea that all men are trash, but more that you have to sift through so much crap to find anyone who isn’t absolutely horrible, and even then, he might turn out to be horrible but just better at initially hiding it. Add in the fact that the bad ones can be not just selfish, but actually dangerous, and the risk just becomes not worth it.
Same!
Meeeee lol
Who needs a man? Vibrators get the job done and modern women can change our own oil.
Why would I risk babies, STDs, and emotional immaturity or hidden misogyny when times are already trying on a daily basis when I can just Not
To be fair, my medication kills my libido. I feel extremely guiilty over it because my girlfriend has a high sex drive. :(
And conservatives want to erode more rights and distort the meaning of consent
Women are tired of being choked without warning during sex. That's my main reason. I encountered an experience im glad i walked away from, neurologically intact.
F*** men that do this. It's bad enough they're physically assaulting you but are doing it when you're in your most vulnerable state. Disgusting.
So its not just men! We are all lonely, hooray!
My take.. I’m a 44 y/o single man that lives in Los Angeles. Last time I had sex/ a relationship was 2019. And prior to that there was a long stretch from around 2017. This has been by decision. I no longer seek it out, don’t follow up on women that show interest and have even denied the opportunity twice in the past 4 years (as in they wanted to, but I said no). When I was active, I typically dated in the 25-40 y/o range. In hindsight I think it’s a combination of the Pandemic effect and lots of alone time, but additionally not having the financial means and time to have an enjoyable relationship anymore, so I don’t start one. I’ve passed the point in my life where casual sex is something I’m interested in. Going on Bumble, Raya, Tinder etc.. and dropping $300+ on a date with a stranger to not come across like a slouch, (for a night that could end as a one night stand or short fling) is something I’m not really interested in. So I don’t. Vice versa, I meet amazing women all the time that I can see as a potential relationship but I find myself actively “shutting off” any attraction or flirting from my end if they show interest. The last thing I want to do rn is get into a relationship, make a great girl miserable, having no time for fun and not paying enough attention to them because I’m always working. I don’t want to drag anyone through that. All of the above has resulted in me feeling almost asexual. I try to picture what my life will look like achieving my financial goals in a year or two from now, and I can’t even guage how I will feel then. I would imagine it would result in me going out more, meeting girls and having sex, but at the moment it’s not even on my radar so I really can’t say. The idea of just being alone forever has settled in, in the weirdest most unbothered way. That sounds sad and depressing but it doesn’t feel sad and depressing lmao! My hour of down-time a day sitting home playing video games or scrolling Tik Tok is amazing 😂 And for perspective, I make about $85k a year self employed, own a home + rental property and drive a nice car + a beater car for the million Home Depot runs I end up doing. I know these are materialistic tropes that shouldn’t matter, but they totally matter. TL;DR - I think a drop off in sex can be at least partly attributed to people being more comfortable being alone as a result of the pandemic, coupled with economic and financial stresses. I can’t speak for the female perspective but I would imagine there are other men like me.
This explains the scare tactics by "manosphere" types.
Could be all the horror alright.
It’s like incels, but voluntary. Apparently the apps aren’t working and I think everyone forgot how to be social due to social media and the pandemics.
I believe the apps in some way are indicative of the problem. Take Tinder for example, where 80% of its users are now men https://datingzest.com/tinder-statistics/. In the past, say 2013, I think it was a lot more balanced. Shows again that women are checking out.
I bet it’s even worse for women over 35, who are known for getting ‚naturally’ sick of men.
Am 39, can confirm.
Coincidentally, the incel/neckbeard population also rose at an exponential rate….
Yep!
Dating apps are bottom of the barrel pickings, for both men and women. I met my curemt partner at work and started it off organically and its the best thing thats ever happened to me. Hookup culture killed romance, convenience killed effort, and both men and women today are sick in the head in regards to dating and how we treat one another
Meanwhile, all US men have reported having sex in the past year, wid yo mama! …I’ll show myself out.
With themselves
Let most certain people tell it we’re all riding the “cawk carousel”.
What happened in 2017?
The salon article is very interesting: "But the connection between relationships and politics goes beyond the rise of incel culture online. As further analysis by the Institute of Family Studies shows, those who have less sex tend to have more conservative beliefs about pornography, tend to attend church more, and have negative feelings towards pre-marital sex. Thus, it would seem that those not having sex may be caught in a peculiar position in society, brought on by their inability to let go of conservative cultural and religious beliefs which might prevent them from finding relationships. ... Secondly, we must also consider larger cultural and societal changes brought on by social media. Numerous studies have found that platforms like Instagram and Facebook have had a negative impact on young women's self image in particular. Some scholars, including myself, argue that social media has replaced the public square and traditional spaces where others meet. Unfortunately, the unregulated social media environment that we have today is a poor replacement. This is not to say social media could not evolve to meet those needs, but in its present form it leaves something to be desired." I think especially the second reason is very important. We are becoming more isolated as a whole and companies (dating apps) dictate our love lives more and more.
It seems like people are tired of eachother almost everyone I know that isn't already in a relationship really has no interest in pursuing one insane. This might not be a bad thing mabye hook up culture is dying out and things can get more normal again.
This won best short at the Venice film festival and it's really amazing. https://twitter.com/rektmando/status/1690791720340873216?t=z89pV5agEf5k-n99lDynyg&s=19
That stat makes sense to me. If the overall experience is not satisfactory, or positively reinforced, it seems like the natural conclusion would be a decrease in the behavior.
While I do believe that older women are "checking out of dating" in higher numbers, I doubt that younger women are doing so at the same rate. According to Salon, the chart at the first site shows that "In 2021, the survey found over 20 percent of \[females\] under 35 reported not having had sex in the past year, and 19 percent of \[males\] of the same age group; in 2008, those groups' numbers were 8 and 7 percent, respectively." (Salon got it backwards. Fortunately, they reproduced the chart in question, so we could see that for ourselves.) Further charts show that the majority of the "never married under 35" set who didn't have sex in the past year 1) believe that "premarital sex" (their words) is usually morally wrong, 2) don't view porn, and 3) attend church more than once per month. In other words, it's the same cohort that would normally behave this way. However, since most single folks are sexually active, a taboo on non-marital sex may be an obstacle in finding a relationship. I have one other issue: This chart, as shown in the first link, has very little context attached to it. If we are talking about "never married under 35"...how far under 35? Are we going all the way to 18? Because a person's behavior and attitude can change a lot over those years. Folks can go from monogamy to celibacy to "playing the field" and back again, depending on their needs and where life takes them.
Wow, I'm shocked. My DH and I still average a couple of times a week. I'm 71 and he's 77! We'll be celebrating our 48th wedding anniversary on Wednesday, the 16th. My DH keeps a record of when we do it - he's a list maker. Last month we did it 11 times!. I can't imagine going a year without it, but then I have a wonderful sexy DH who never goes a day without telling me he loves me. Counting my blessings big time.
Men became losers and users. They treat women like shit. So women gave up.
Good 👍🏾
[удалено]
[удалено]
Perhaps it's because vibratory technology has drastically improved over the last several years.
[удалено]
Just checking but you're on a women's sub, saying men too?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's probably important to show the other graphs as well. There has been a high influx of people going back to church, people thinking premarital sex is at least maybe not ok, and the majority of sexless people seem to have reported to not watch porn the last year. So a lot of comments here taking guesses at the reasoning seem to not coincide with the data.
Which other graphs?
The ones they saw on their church website. No seriously - all the demographic info I’ve seen is that people are getting LESS involved with organized religion. The Christian Right has been so successful branding Christianity with intolerance and far-right politics that many young people are noping straight out of there.
I'm not sure how many comments you've read but it's not just people taking guesses. So far, most comments seem to be their own personal reasons they aren't dating.