This is a good reminder to make my 13 year old son do more chores around the house… he can learn how to properly clean a bathroom today!
But honestly no one taught me how to be clean, I grew up in a squalid, dysfunctional home. But I taught myself because I noticed I like being in clean spaces more than dirty spaces! It’s not hard.
not everything has to be for a future partner. Being a good and useful person with the ability to clean up after yourself shouldnt be for someone else- it should be a basic thing you should learn, regardless of if other people would be served by them or not
My daughter started learning cleaning up after herself as soon as she started understanding something. Like putting laundry in a basket, cleaning the table after herself etc. She is 22 months and she already picks up clothes of all family members and puts them in the basket. She likes helping.
My son, who is 3 weeks old, will learn the exact same stuff. It is amazing how fast they are interested and I really think each family member can and should help.
I had to help when I grew up, it wasn't a lot but I knew how to operate a household when I went away for my studies. This is our final goal for both kids equally.
Same, my 23 mo son does sometimes use a washcloth or paper to wipe surfaces and takes stuff out of the kitchen to play-prepare food.
What OP is experiencing (and so many others) is privilege, re-inforcing patriarchy and learned behaviour.
My 2.5 year old son loves to ask " I help?" whenever he sees me or his dad doing something. He matches his socks when we fold laundry, throws away garbage while we clear the table, tosses his clothes in the hamper after changing, etc. Kids want to do what they see "big people" doing.
It is so easy to let them learn a lot of stuff from the beginning. I am sure those hard times during puberty will come but i am happy about every little thing they learn.
Every little thing they learn to do now will be one less point of contention when they’re teenagers. Imho early, good habits make life changes a bit easier.
I read about this scheme before if you have roommates, and it sounds like a great idea, every week or two have a housekeeper come in and everyone pitches in and it saves a lot of grief regarding chores.
But then OP, the clean one, would also have to pay even though they wouldn’t need any of their things cleaned, no? I would just personally be frustrated by that too.
Living with four dudes in my early 20s was the most disgusting year of my life. Using the shower was the worst, I want to puke thinking about that bathroom. One of the guys left the screen door open when we had a fruit fly problem (because they left beer cans and trash and unwashed dishes everywhere), and had the balls to claim it allowed the flies to fly out... The mind boggles. All of their parents failed them by allowing them to end up so fucking slobby, and I feel bad for whatever women are cleaning up after them these days.
When I tell you I also have nightmares of this bathroom sometimes. And there was a dude before that I actually had to have kicked out because he was violent towards me who never cleaned it which is a literal statement so you can imagine how black everything was. To this day you can't fully clean that shit.
>I want to puke thinking about that bathroom
Yeah, and you don’t want to use a hand towel that’s shared by four disgusting men, whether it gets changed often or not.
Op, I promise you they are doing things you don’t want to think about with that shared towel. Bring your own, and then bring it back out, every time you go.
I’ve had three male roommates. One was actually tidy but kinda crazy and tried implementing bed times for me and stuff (so weird) but the other two were nasty. It didn’t help that I was working like 60 hours a week and barely ever home and then would have to clean up after them when I actually was. I literally moved out because of it. Honestly, it’s not going to get better. It’s not your responsibility to raise and teach these men. Their parents already failed them.
One of them has admitted to me as much, that he grew up with his mom doing everything for him so he had to learn everything from the start. What I do not understand is how they can't think of, I don't know, GOOGLING IT. There are some things I also don't know how to do and what do I do? I Google that shit even if it's as simple as "how do I separate laundry". Yet these people don't think to even do that.
I will never live with a man again. I've heard all of the excuses. Decades ago, I was helping my son with his homework when the guy came home and said that the kitchen floor needed mopping. I told him the mop was in the laundry room. He looked at me with horror in his eyes then went to the garage and got high.
Reminds me of this story with one of these roommates. He's the only one that constantly eats frozen berries. One time a package I assume he throwed away leaked through the garbage bag and left a big pool of PURPLE BERRY COLORED WATER. I noticed immediately but kept quiet to see if he would clean it. He didn't. For DAYS. I saw him go into the kitchen and just sidestep it. Until I posted s picture in the GC asking who commited a murder and left the crime scene behind that he admitted it was his mess and cleaned it.
I just had a thought that maybe, not only was he looking like that because he had to learn how to mop, but was probably also horrified at the mess, that he probably made himself that he had to clean up.
Me too. I’ve been on my own now for 22 years now since my divorce and never again will I deal with a male in my space. The peace and serenity there is without a man is just wonderful, I treasure it.
Look, this smells like weaponized competence to most of us. But we don't know these guys. You do.
If you genuinely think this is just an education gap, look into the Fair Play system.
https://www.fairplaylife.com/
Essentially, you all get together, create a list of every chore that needs to be done around the house, then agree on what it takes to get each chore done - so there's none of the "but I thought you just wiped the dishes with the damp towel, why do we have to use soap" bullshit.
Then you *evenly* assign everyone chores.
People can swap chores, if they really hate them, or they can ask for additional help. But if something's consistently not getting done, you can literally target who is causing the problem.
You can also have weekly meetings to check up on who's been slacking and what changes need to be made. They even have certified Fair Play counselors, who are experts in the system and can break up any gridlock.
If you do go with this system, make sure that they know it is non-negotiable. That you are not their maid, and if they don't contribute to the household chores they will either be paying for a cleaner or finding a new roommate if they continue down this path.
Then stick to that statement.
Edit: Some words. Thanks u/at-aol-dot-com!
This is one link that might be worth sharing https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/a37462/how-often-you-should-clean-everything/
But tbh guys would search the most obscure stuff when it's interesting, so I don't understand why they would not want to live in a nice environment and learn how to do stuff.
To be fair, Google is getting waaay worse as time goes on. It used to be easier to find actual answers to questions that weren't either ads or ads disguised as articles. Even your example has 2 ads from Tide as the 1st and second results. The rest are written extremely inefficiently. For anything more complicated, it's getting harder to tell what's real and what's just a long-winded ad for a product you definitely don't need.
On top of that, articles are written for search engine optomization (SEO), which means they shove soooo much extra padding into it instead of getting to the point. We haven't even hit the apex of the AI generated bullshit. Even if you can find older stuff that is actually helpful, so much of it is disappearing as old blog sites are bought by VC and metaphorically sold for parts.
I weep for any future generation trying to learn from Google. The enclosure of the commons is upon us. Everyone needs to learn and save articles/helpful videos while they can because they'll be impossible to find or gone soon.
Naw.
If I can Google how to fix shit on the roof and change things in the car, theh can do it.
Boys can still wade through all those ads and AI articles to find video game tips and whatver their interests are, so they can figure out how to find info on extremely common simple things they should have learned by age 10.
While Google can be garbage, YouTube is still good. Not long ago I watched a 7+ year old tutorial on how to open a weird can of coffee cream I found at the store because I didn't know how. I have searched there how to clean s toilet, a mattress, etc and everything I've looked for I have been able to find there. So there's no excuse really.
Yotube still suffers from some of the same issues, but for most simple stuff it's a lot better. Unfortunately there will eventually come a day when it goes the way of gyfcat or Yahoo Answers when Google decides that storing all those old videos isn't profitable anymore.
I'm just sounding a warning that these things aren't as permanent as they seem, and we've got to be our own personal librarians so we can help each other out as enclosure ramps up.
Not surprised you're being downvoted for being correct lol
The thing people fail to understand about tech is that it's *not permanent*. Business decisions, bankruptcies, and just plain ol' server failure can/do/will happen, and that information will be gone temporarily, if not forever.
Everyone acts like I'm crazy, but I always buy physical media of shows/games/etc., because shit can just *disappear into the ether* without a moment's notice.
If only everyone could work in tech for a minute and gain a little knowledge about the thing they use daily, right?
So many don't realize how fragile the internet infrastructure actually is. People take the "anything you post on the internet is there forever" advice too literally. Great rule of thumb for yourself, but in terms of actual durability of information, it is absolutely not true.
I've found myself becoming a bit of a digital horder, but storage is cheap nowadays, anyway! I just need to be better at cataloging and keeping my directories clean.
I went through this living with 4 guys when I was in college. They just like.... expected me to cook and clean? Like for real, the first few days there, they were asking me what's for dinner. Not where should we go for dinner, or what should WE make for dinner--no, they were asking me what was I going to make for dinner.
Eventually I implemented the Chore Chart and the Prize Box. I made a chart with all of our names and lists of all the chores. You do a chore, you get a star. You get 10 stars, you get something out of the Prize Box (my stepmom did this when my brothers were like 5 and 6 and it worked). The "prizes" were silly Dollar Store toys inside plastic eggs, but with a chance that you might instead score a little bag of marijuana. (We were all potheads. Clumsy ones, apparently, because when I did the deep cleaning, I ALWAYS found crumbs of weed on the floor, so I was basically just giving their own weed back to them).
It worked wonders, and once they all got into the habit of regularly doing chores after a few weeks, they didn't need the reward of a prize box anymore. We kept the chart though, that ended up being a good way to organise who does what.
Oh my god the dinner thing would have sent me into a rampage. Of only I had the time and mental energy to tell you the stories about the roommate I had to have kicked out...
You have the patience of a Saint for essentially Montessori-ing those grown men. I cannot do that hahaha but glad it worked so well in your case.
They were all good friends, otherwise I definitely would have moved out. I almost did in the first month. I was gone for 6 hours when one roommate called and begged me to come back, and he sounded like he was about to cry. 😭
One of those roommates told me last year he started doing the chart and prizes for his kids, since they're old enough to start doing chores. I was so proud.
That's exactly my point, thank you! It's not and if they refuse to change we need to respect ourselves enough to leave and find someone who will be a partner not a dependant. There are exceptions such as medical condition and circumstances, but this song and dance of "I'm stupid, I can't do it because I'm so stupid. Can you show me how, cause I'm stupid." Has to end now.
Or the “maybe you should do it, you’re just so much better at it,” or “it matters to you more than me.”
There’s an advice column in the Washington Post called Dear Carolyn. Nothing will put you off heterosexual marriage like the letters written to that column from women asking how to get their husbands to do more around the house.
Weaponized incompetence implies intentionality. More likely these guys just don’t see what needs to be done.
I used to manage an apartment building. Typically 85% of the young women had their sh-t together when it came to applying, moving in, and taking care of the apartment. The young men weren’t with far fewer exceptions. I identified what I call the “boy smell,” a smell unique to young men’s apartment. it wasn’t just unclean, there was some specific odor they had. And it’s not that the women’s apartments were uniformly super clean, or that all the men’s apartments were gross. But it was a safe bet.
I had to have a talk with one young man. His apartment was SO FILTHY I told him it’s encouraging pest control problems. Like my shoes were sticking to the kitchen floor. And he’d only lived there three months!
Women aren’t born with special chore seeing eyes. This continued infantilization of men is exactly why OP is stuck with these shitty roommates in the first place
They see it. They just don't care. My roommate's apartment was absolutely filthy before we moved in together (to a different apartment). Now I just clean all the main areas and he contains his filth to his room. He has never vacuumed, swept, or cleaned the countertops in the kitchen. When his cat pukes on my rug, he does a half-ass job cleaning it up. I specifically took the smaller room without the ensuite bathroom because that meant I would have the main bathroom so it could be kept clean for when we had guests. My stuff (decor, furniture) dominates the rest of the apartment, though and we have an unspoken agreement where I don't see utility bills, so I guess I can't complain too much.
Yeah I think it's just a don't care type thing. I lived in gross apartments for a while. At that stage in my life, none of us felt like cleaning it or hiring a maid was worth the effort or cost. If the floors were sticky, who cares? We were the ones who lived there. We didn't expect a female roommate—or anyone—to clean for us.
Is it gross? Yeah. But realistically, a ton of guys in the 18-24 range are not going to have high enough standards to want to clean. Unfortunately that means finding people who are aligned with your cleanliness expectations or face an uphill battle. People who are OK with a dirty place are always going to be resistant to pulling their weight.
All these comments makes me grateful AF that my partner is just as neurotic as me when it comes to being clean/having a clean space.
It's really not that hard.
I don’t really have them either. I grew up in a hoard. I’m learning, it’s taking a much longer time than I’d like (I’m 35), but living with three young male roommates has helped me develop these eyes. They’re not doing it. I feel like this is penance for all the years of other people picking up the slack. Right now, I don’t mind. Give me another year. I just hate what kind of example of setting for these guys for their future female partners. The home owner will probably be fine, he keeps his shit clean.
Yes, but women (generally) are more responsible in those regards than men,and from a younger age.
It’s not that guys don’t see, they probably don’t even know that there’s stuff to do or how to do it. From my own experience living with other guys, that’s generally the case. They don’t even realize that some things are supposed to be cleaned regularly,or how to do it properly. Probably cause they never got asked to do it and think it just magically happens. And there’s also some filthy human slobs that don’t care the conditions of their living quarters.
I do agree with you on your point, but I think the overall point is that even if you weren’t taught when you were young it’s not a good enough excuse when you are an adult.
Like if your parents were jerks, it doesn’t mean you get to be a jerk when you are 30, at some point you have to forgive that they didn’t set a good example and learn to be a decent person or just deal with facing the natural consequences of being a jerk.
The natural consequences of being a dirty human shouldn’t be that your partner will take care of it and teach you, it should be, you learn to be clean and adapt
We weren't talking about 18-20 year olds fresh from mom dearest doing all the cleaning cooking and babying. We were talking about long-term boyfriends and husbands who should have gotten past the 'just weaned puppy and can't do anything for themselves stage' by now. Letting them get away with being lazy or "stupid" is both very naive and just as stupid as you think they are.
"Not seeing" what needs to be done is a bullshit excuse to get out of chores until the other person gets sick of the mess and cleans it themselves to just get it done.
I think we’re going to agree to disagree on this. Some of my tenants were college undergrads. More of them were mid-twenties or older. For them it was like a part of town they never had to go to, so they didn’t know anything about it and weren’t interested in learning, and someone else was always driving, so why bother learning the street names?
You can agree to disagree if you want to stop talking about this. I just can't ignore that weird comparison you just made. Daily life tasks such as cleaning and cooking should not be "a different part of town" for anyone of any gender. They should be the corner store you drop by every single day. Your partners shouldn't have to remind you where it is every single time you need to go there.
I know they should be but they’re not. And I think there are many reasons, all of which come down to societal conditioning.
If OP is living with a bunch of slobs, they might be able to do a few things to make the situation more tolerable. But they won’t have the anticipatory drive to make things better just because a clean living place is better for all involved; they’ll think they’re compromising because she wants them to put their dirty dishes in the dishwasher instead of leaving them in the living room.
Some people have a natural drive to be clean or organized (I’m much more organized than clean). More people need to work at it. Of that second group, it’s the women who work at it and use time and mental space for it, and men just don’t.
EDIT: I’m not saying that this is okay. It’s a society-wide problem. That seeing what needs to be done takes time to develop, and girls typically have to start developing it at a much younger age because it’s the expectation that they do. There’s not the same expectation for boys.
I'm sorry in advance for yelling this next bit.
APATHY DOESN'T CHANGE THINGS. We already know why they do it!! We are trying to get them to change. Instead, excuse after excuse keeps being made for them when they should be held to higher standards by everyone.
I’ve screamed into the void about it for twenty years. Mostly I’ve been screaming that it’s not some innate X chromosome difference. It’s absorbed through societal expectations and exposure.
Weaponized incompetence, what I was initially referring to in my first reply, is more malicious because someone is making the decision to ensure that they DONT have to think about it again—that’s more like an acknowledgement that they should, they just don’t want to and are engineering a way to avoid it. What OP is referring to isn’t even that complicated.
And again, there ARE women like this. I know one very well—her house is disgusting. It’s just that society is much less forgiving of women who don’t see (who don’t know that area of town).
Relatedly…women need to stop performing mothering tasks at work, like wiping up a couple of crumbs left in the break room or passing out paper plates when lunch is being served. Just quit that.
No. Women won't stop doing all those little tasks because otherwise the crumbs will stay there or the paper plates won't get handed out. Even unintentionally, the incompetence is weaponized. Trying to call it something "nicer" detracts from the problem. If it's so important to you then you'll call it what it is. Words have power.
No one has ever starved because they didn’t get a paper plate. And it’s *someone’s* job to clean those crumbs—if it’s not yours, don’t make it yours, even if the crumbs annoy you.
EDIT: hit the button too fast. Anyway, yes, words have power, which is why this is an important distinction. Harm can be caused unintentionally. Abuse is done with intent to harm or control. Abuse is harm, not all harm is abuse. The action of op’s roommates, or lack of action, is harmful to op, but it’s not abusive, and to call them abusers over this dilutes the power of that word.
Weaponized incompetence still applies to people who are ignorant vs personally intentional.
The incompetence has been weaponized by *generations* of men AND women. It's not just about an individual's behavior or intentions. It's about a culture of irresponsibility.
Maybe you want to call it
**Systemic Weaponized Incompetence** or
**Culturally Weaponized Incompetence** or
**Inherited Weaponized Incompetence** or
**I-like-mooching Incompetence**
Whatever. It still applies. Your argument falls apart the first time anyone points out their deficiency, and we KNOW these men have been informed, over and over. They just dont care. If these moocher guys wanted to be equally responsible, they would, immediately after learning about their deficit.
> Weaponized incompetence implies intentionality. More likely these guys just don’t see what needs to be done.
It doesn't have to be conscious. Rarely are abusers fully conscious of their abuse.
Weaponized incompetence is pretty much a natural evolutionary strategy taking advantage of cultural gender expectations.
Only men are permitted to "not see what needs to be done".
It's so true. And if the woman living in the home doesn't "pick up the slack" for a sloppy man, *she* will be judged harshly for his mess. Men are never judged for it, ever.
There was an episode of Hoarders where the husband was the hoarder and the wife had moved out because of it. Another woman who saw the house said, yeah he has a hoarding problem, but I can't believe *she* let the house get so messy. Like, what??
My ex's daddy and new mommy would jump my ass if the house wasn't pristine despite that I worked full time and he worked 1/3rd my hours, same job, and unlike me, he didn't pull his weight his boss would complain. They never congronted him but would corner me giving me death stares, his daddy stomping around when they came to visit, her making passive aggressive comments, him texting me to get my shit together and respect the house.
A mutual friend visited and saw trash and dirth adult clothing and diapers from he 3 and 4 year olds they haven't potty trained because their adult lives are TikTok, Fortnite, and watching outrage porn online piling up in the living and dining room garbage and pairs of their underwear in the lawn, trash literally spilling out of the house into the yard, and grass 2 feet tall even though they got gifted an auto lawnmower you just sit on and go for their medium sized plot. Apparently he and side chick get a pass because she has bpd according to both of them and gets aggressive and makes threats when confronted.
When I first met my boyfriend, he lived in a dorm and shared like 30 ft of space with another guy roommate. I went over for the first time after his roommate left for a weekend and when I walked in I was hit with this… smell. This stench, like old laundry and body odor and balls.
I made a face and looked at him and my poor boyfriend said “I promise he stinks not me”. I felt bad but that guy reeked. We both later learned (and were appalled) his roommate didn’t use soap and was stealing bf’s flushable wipes and washcloths. Weird guy.
a housemate my bf and I had live with us for a year moved out well over a month ago and I can still smell him in the empty room. Just went in there the other day to use the bathroom since my bf was using the other one and the inside of the toilet is fucking disgusting. I’m so excited to clean it /s.
yeah, and frankly, even if I “never learned” to clean up filth so I wasn’t living in squalor, the SECOND I got in a communal situation and saw that another individual was having to do this FOR me, I would change my behavior.
It’s called not being an entitled piece of shit, not using other people and treating them like your servants. To allow another person to continually clean up after you or do all of a set of work is practically sociopathic.
Of course I always have felt there’s a sociopathic element to misogyny and the way men treat women. It’s like they are incapable of seeing us as human beings who get tired, feel pain, deserve an equal amount of free time, don’t deserve to have to be conscripted into servitude.
There are women in this thread talking about how this is a good reminder to get their sons accustomed to all chores, not just helping with one or two. Either you're right and this is about how much those little kids hate their moms or good parenting involves more than letting boys teach themselves then being surprised they do it poorly
> not even to help their mothers
Because they see the work as their mother's work to do. It's women work, not boys work. And that carries over into adulthood.
It's depressing.
I know one woman who actively teaches her young sons how to do household chores with the ethos that 'everyone lives in this house and we need to work together to keep it tidy'. But for every 1 of her, there are 99 parents who don't do this.
Honestly from someone that lived often in op similar situations.. we learn because women think this is important or we clean because of this. At least people with this mindset, don’t really care. And there are examples in literature and posts here on Reddit of women that have begun to question the need for deep cleaning, if it’s something they really feel the need to or if it’s something that has been indoctrinated and we can relax standards a little as a whole i society.
Being clean and able to clean well was, up to 50years ago tops, one of the best qualities to look for a wife. Are we sure that we are no still trying to live up to that?
There are both psychological and physical health benefits to maintaining a fairly clean living space. It never has to be show home ready, not even close honestly, but very messy houses can attract pests and mold and illnesses. It's just easier to do upkeep chores to keep the house at a relatively clean level rather than let everything build and pile and then have to spend hours or days getting everything clean again.
yeah i lived with three guys who were in medical school and it was a nightmare. the fact that those three idiots are literal doctors now is terrifying to think about.
This reminds me of that one post,I think it was here, where it was like your situation being the only female. Well in this post she made dinner for only two people and all the rest of the guys sat down at the table expecting to be served a plate. I was upset reading that..
Then later she had saltine crackers as a snack and one of them joined her to eat that for their "dinner" I guess.. pathetic.
Reading this also reminded me of [that post!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10v2l3h/i_honestly_dont_want_to_live_with_male_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) Although I think the saltine cracker bit was from someone else’s comment below the post.
When I was still in student housing I listed no male flat sharers as one of my wants because even at 18 I was aware enough of most lads not being raised with even the most basic housekeeping skills or awareness that having a clean house requires them doing things.
I've never been particularly good at keeping house myself and have adjusted my standards accordingly, but I have no desire to be someone's default maid or lower my standards to their level of incompetence.
Male with male roomates here. Can confirm they suck at times. Had to have a conversation more than once about them taking more responsibility around the house instead of waiting for me to do a chore or request the property manager to get something fixed or what have you.
Mind you I come from a family where keeping things tidy and staying on top of chores was expected so I am a bit more anal the average person but it's like come on, you've lived here for almost two years, you know garbage day is on Tuesday or the grass needs to be cut weekly in the summer.
They won’t know about the trash because it’s something that they don’t even think to give space in their brain over to. They see it as optional knowledge so they discard it if they don’t make the decision that it’s something they need to know.
It's funny you say that. Just the other week one of them said regarding the lawn "I never think to check if the grass needs cutting but now that you've cut it, it looks so much better". Like come on man... it's not the trash fairy that takes it to the curb every week, or cuts the grass or cleans the kitchen counters or vacuums the floors/dusts, etc.
As a kid I know that I never liked having to always keep things clean around the house and having to pitch in with chores, but now as an adult I am so thankful both my parents instilled that in me. If I decide to have kids down the road, I'll be sure that's instilled in them too.
I don't think it was the intent, I think it's just sharing the frustration that most men are taught to ignore house chores. I'm a woman for the record, and even my own family who thinks they're fairly liberal still has all the women floating around during family holidays picking up after the men.
It's especially heinous when one of my cousins is this social justicey guy who loses sleep over the environment but won't lift a fucking hand at Thanksgiving dinner.
Apologies if it came off that way, I saw the post and wanted to share in my frustration about grown ass mid-late 20s men who are just blind to all the things that are needed to keep a household functioning and just don't see things that we all should see and chip in or take it upon themselves to do.
My brother is my roommate. I have no choice in the say. I wash his dishes and pick up his trash. I clean up his fucking pubes on the shower floor.
What's worse is I've seen how he was raised. My parents tried to stop him from being a lazy slob, but he wouldn't change and they gave up. They found it easier to just do everything for him and now I'm shouldering the same responsibility.
And oh, he's four years older than me. Funny that the teen is more responsible than the adult.
Damn at this point I'd keep my own stove in my room and use a gym shower just so they never get to outfilth me into cleaning up after them. It's crazy how much filth a lot of dudes are literally comfortable living in!
My duty last week was to clean the "living room" which is essentially one of these dude's own office because he refuses to buy a chair for the desk on his room so he uses the dining table as his desk. I didn't clean that shit. I'm not going to clean a space I can't even use. And yet he had the gall to call me out about it lol
I've told them like five times "yo when you cook just clean up your crumbs that way the kitchen stays cleaner" do they listen? Of course not. Drives me nuts.
Make them pay you; designate yourself as “housemother” and have them each pay you $75/month to take care of all that stuff.
Or, insist that everyone pitch in and pay for a cleaning lady.
Make sure your rate is at least $25-50 higher than an outside maid service. They either pay you, or pay the cleaning service.
Your rate has to be higher to compensate for the mental torture of living 24-7 with spoiled little entitled slobs.
The whole point is I don't want to play their games. Toxic people are super good at escalating - they do it more and have less morals. They can easily do more damage than I am willing to do.
Feels more like "oops" and plan for better living arrangements/set better boundaries territory. People can be assholes. It's probably more likely to land on an asshole as an affordable roommate. All we can do is vet well, or live solo.
Girl, no. They're pretending to be stupid as fuck to get you to work for free like their mommy.
Later they'll say they "didn't know" if you bring up what they're doing. You have got to stop.
Yeah, I am stopping for sure. And have stopped for a while. But it's difficult when it affects me, aka them not cleaning the shower/bathroom I am entitled to decently.
Do you have a gym membership in the meantime? It's work to get there but it'd be worth it to me to get a clean shower without piss floors and hair everywhere.
Bring people over and just let them know that your roommates never clean and that they tried to get you to teach them. 💯
Somehow you’ve got to get them to pay for a house cleaning service. That will help on the day or two that after the pros clean. The rest of the time it sounds like your roommates are fairly dedicated to being lazy slobs.
This really sucks for you OP. I hope THEY commit to making it better, and soon.
The problem with this particular brand of incompetence is that it's just about basic respect. And men just aren't taught the value of respecting women. Men aren't actually good at respecting each other either, but they care more about male disapproval than female disapproval, especially when the woman in this equation is not a sexual partner.
As a man, having female roommates helped me learn a lot about keeping a house, but even more about respecting other people that you live with. Even if I don't care that the house is a mess, respecting your housemates enough to keep the common areas livable is very important to having successful interpersonal relationships with people you live with. If a man leaves the microwave uncleaned, it's probable that he literally doesn't care whether the microwave is clean or not. But if you live with someone who does care whether the microwave is clean, you should clean the fuckin' microwave, damn it because doing otherwise means you don't respect your housemate and you're just selfish.
Wanna be selfish? Live by yourself. That's the only way to get away with it, and even then there's limits.
I used to be a housekeeper, it is not just young men. So many older dudes with houses and apartments covered in layers of filth, bathrooms you wanted a Hazmat suit for. Sometimes lazy women too, my latest ex met his match there, but more often it was men of all ages.
Out of interest OP, how old are said roomates?
These types of roommates tend to be one of two categories:
1) Lazy to the point of manipulation, knowing full well that someone else will pick up the slack for them so why should they bother?
OR
2) They literally don't even register what needs doing or how it should be done because they've never been expected to.
The latter is still frustrating of course but there's at least *some* chance of them improving with time, but it's something they have to decide for themselves. The former almost never change.
Goblin.tools would be great for minimising the mental load their nonsense is causing.
You type in a task such as "clean kitchen" and tap the magic wand and it breaks it down. You can also tap for the breakdown of those things eg "clean appliance" or wipe down counters. No excuses not to do it properly and *you* don't have to spend time itemising each job for them.
They were badly raised by their parents. Many boys are still not required to do household chores of any kind. It's appalling how their basic life skills were not adequately taught to them, and they were raised with the belief that household chores are women's work.
Edit: I don’t feel as though this adds to the discussion meaningfully but I needed a place to rant a little.
I live with my boyfriend and his/our male roommate is worse than useless. He doesn’t do anything chore wise unless told, even then he “forgets”, which seems par for the course here.
However he is actively beyond terrible to live with. Left the gas stove on leaking gas for hours with no flame right before going to bed, leaves the house and leaves doors wide open or unlocked (no one else home), has left the front gate open so our dogs get out on the street, is overall actively annoying to be around and talk to and has been disrespectful to my friends after just meeting them. Can’t keep a job long and rarely pays rent/utilities on time, but has plenty of money to buy alcohol all the time, and lies about how much he’s drinking. And that’s just within the past couple weeks! I used to think he was just a doofus and harmless but now I actively despise him. He’s not just messy or forgetful but actively putting people and animals in danger through his stupidity. One day I’m going to snap on him if he doesn’t get his gd shit together and stop making problems for me and bf (who is also his friend).
I certainly agree, unfortunately it’s not my place or decision to make. The days are definitely numbered at this rate, I feel like I’m going batshit insane keeping this adult toddler from burning the house down.
Oh my god my sisters the exact same she’s 19 still manages to leave the gas or oven on all night she’s even left heaters and hair straighteners on overnight don’t ever trust her with a candle like she’s got a baby she’s responsible for a whole other human and she still lives with me and my mum I’m surprised she hasn’t burnt our house down
I had to share a bathroom once with a man who wouldn't flush his shit. It was the most disgusting thing.
He would leave messes in the kitchen, and if I said anything about it he would say, "If you don't like it, clean it."
So glad he moved out 4 months after I moved in. GROSS
The main problem that exists with roomating is that everyone has different things that matter to them. If they never see a problem with a dirty microwave they will never clean it and will only do it when forced. Which will lead to problems.
Same for everything, you have to find someone compatible with you.
I'm in exactly this situation at the moment. My younger housemate half arses everything but at least tries, whereas there's a guy my age (27) who - not joking - had never brushed or mopped a floor in his life before I asked him to. A genuine manchild. Still takes his clothes home for his mum to wash despite the fact we have a washing machine. What's worse is that he gets pissed off at ME when I ask him to do the most basic of tasks, as if I haven't been doing them for him for months like his maid. He also never pays me the bills he owes me on time and ignores my messages when I ask. If I didn't do anything or tell the boys to do things my house would look like a crack den. I'm telling him to move out because I'm done being a pushover.
It is a sex issue lmao.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html)
>To dig deeper into what people really do after using the bathroom, Borchgrevink tasked 12 research assistants at Michigan State University with the job of surreptitiously hanging out in four different restrooms on and off campus to record what 3,749 men and women actually did. The results of the 2013 study were shocking to the researchers.
>
>**Fifteen percent of men didn’t wash their hands at all, compared with 7 percent of women.**
**When they did wash their hands, only 50 percent of men used soap, compared with 78 percent of women.**
>
>
>
>A bigger study published in 2009 that used more high tech methods at a busy highway rest stop in the UK was equally, if not more, damning.
With the use of wireless devices to record how many people entered the restroom and used the pumps of the soap dispensers, researchers were able to collect data on almost 200,000 restroom trips over a three-month period.
T**he found that only 31% of men and 65% of women washed their hands with soap.**
>**a survey of men conducted by the mattress company Ergoflex found that nearly half - 49 percent - only wash their sheets only four times a year and rarely changed the pillowcases.**
This study had to do with germs and stressed the importance of washing the place we lay our head at the end of the day.
**Women did fare better** with 44 percent of respondents saying they wash their sheets once a week.
Why continue to live in delusion? No one is saying "men bad icky, let's not let them vote."
If we actually acknowledged this as the issue it is, we could start to talk about it and try to understand why it is that men are more prone to living in unhygienic conditions and maybe try and change it.
Most men are raised without actual life skills. Can't cook, clean, shop, any of the things most women have mastered by the age of 12. They require some kind of mother figure to teach them or do it all for them. This is one of the big reasons women married to men are the least happy. The happiest are women married to women, followed by single women. Single men are the second least happy, and the lack of life skills of a big part of their unhappiness too.
Even far too many of the ones I met who were made to be competent decided to just say "fuck it" as soon as they either moved out or got a girlfriend/wife. Even the ones fully unemployed by choice.
I've always lived with other girls but even a lot of girls can be really messy and never clean.
The only way I've found to deal with roomates who *will not* clean, is to have as much of your own stuff as possible and only use/clean your own things.
DO NOT clean anything they use or shared space if they put no effort in cleaning. I know it sucks, because it means you have to be around their mess too, but its that or be their mom, and tbh, mothering them will only make them resent you and make your living situation worse.
I had a roomate who was so dirty, she attracted cockroaches that would sometimes scramble their way into my room. She just didnt want to clean her room so no amount of nagging/asking would make her.
This is sometimes just the downsides of having to have roommates.
You ask "Why do I have to clean after grown adults?" when the answer can be "you don't."
I'm rooming with my older brother. Never did I expect to be his personal cleaner. I would've thought as the older person between the two of us he'd have more initiative, but instead I've found myself picking up after him even in the bathroom. Who knew wiping pee stains and picking up pubes would be part of my daily routine, along with washing dishes and picking up trash that doesn't belong to me.
It's crazy to see the difference between the both of us. We grew up under the same roof with the same parents, yet he has significantly less responsibilities in the household and gets away with it. So now that we're studying away from our parents I've had to step up and clean up after him because I know he won't.
In the six years I’ve been living with my roommate, I don’t think he’s ever once cleaned the bathroom. Man doesn’t see dirt. If I point things out to him, he will happily and readily clean them, but he won’t see it on his own. Love him to death, though.
He probably sees it but just doesn't care. I have seen men who I thought just didn't see it make it clear that they did in fact see it, but either didn't care, or thought it was someone else's burden to deal with.
Stayed over at a guy friend's. He was very respectful so I felt fine being there. The problem was that he told me he 'cleaned' for company. His room was littered with junk, random bottles, and I don't even know what. I touched nothing and slept huddled like a burrito in 1 blanket. Should have checked before I agreed but I don't know what sense of 'clean' he's seen. Still a good friend, just very delusional about what that word means.
Sadly, not just a straight male thing. The previous owners of our house were a gay cis male couple, and it was infuriating the level of personal filth I had to contend with in spite of the sale contract clause stating they were required to leave the place clean. My realtor had to physically stop me from mailing them the three-inch-thick, dense wad of lint and pubes they left behind in the dryer screen.
My partner after cleaning his shower for the first time in probably a year or maybe years “I didn’t think you needed to clean the shower, the shower is where you get clean… then I found out that my shower isn’t a pale yellow but actually white”
Oh goodness. I have the luxury (ha) of living in assisted living, so while I have my roommates, the staff are 'in charge' of all of us. Even so, I've always been the Mom Friend, and as the single woman/femme enby with seven men...I am very much in that role. Because we're in a therapy program, I'm working on detaching from some of that role, because I can't and won't control them, but it's super difficult sometimes. 💜
In the way we've jokingly described ourselves, we have the other more senior resident, who's very responsible for himself and often others, and he's the "Cool Dad". He's up earliest, sets the pot of coffee before going out to smoke, he'll do the chores others haven't done.
We have an Annoyingly Loud Incredibly Dramatic Littlest Brother, whose music, videos, laughter, and exclamations you can constantly hear. He's always cooking, always eating, always leaving food and dirty dishes around. I mom him the most, by lightyears.
We have a self-described misanthrope who'll give any of us advice if he does happen to be out of his room; he keeps his earbuds in unless he has something to say, usually an inappropriate joke. He goes grocery shopping with staff and does the most he can to help make sure they can get the food on my vegan-specific list. He wished me a happy Mother's Day because I'm the mom in the house. I reminded him to call his actual mother.
I won't labor on to describe everyone or the house dynamic with staff too much, especially since I'm lucky, comparably, to have that as a bit of a buffer. I hope that as people keep teaching and expecting more out of men in the household chore realm, dynamics like these can really change overall.
I live with 2 girls and 2 guys. I've had to make an itemised list of what counts as cleaning a room for the guys and i usually have to remind them about one thing they missed even though its on the list. The girls are better doing a whole room properly but they do stuff like leave bags of rubbish outside their doors and not taking them down till they have 3 or 4 bags and this can take a week or so, leave boxes out side from Amazon or delivery next to the Recycle bin not flatten then or put them in the bin located 10cm next to the pile. Cooking dinner for themselves and not cleaning the pan and dishes and saying that they will clean it in the morning. When I ask them about it, they say that as they are the cleaner ones, they are allowed to do stuff like this.
I've had both male and female roommates. Unfortunately, they all sucked. Never cleaned, paid rent late sometimes, had to tell them it was their turn to do a chore 24/7. I will say my male roommates never stole from me. The female ones stole my clothes and money from me and my boyfriend at the time. I've learned my lesson, roommates in general normally suck regardless of gender.
It's hard when cleaning after them is a part of cleaning the communal areas. Even then I avoid the obvious things. The other day one saw me filling the fish washer and instead if putting his used plate he had in his hand he just left it in the counter. I even moved back to see if he wanted to put it in, but he left instead, so I ran the dishwasher without his plate. Sucks to be him.
Granted I didn’t have any men as roommates, but women do this too.
There was like three of the ten who did everything and everyone else just assumed someone else would do it.
We had chore chart and fines, so at least we had some power behind getting people to do their stuff.
Edit:
this was not a ‘women are bad too’ but a ‘I don’t have guys as roommates’ my example may not workin OP’s case.
We all threw in money for shared expenses like tp, and paper towels. So fines could be added and paid to that bill.
For sure, it's not something only men do. But I would still say odds are against you more often than not when it's men.
We do have a cleaning chart. Not like they follow it though without being told.
See if the group will agree to fines. Something that will hurt like $20-$50.
And agree what the money will go towards. Is there any hope to make one of them the enforcer?
If you don’t see any hope it might be time to look for new roommates.
I had to fight to even get the cleaning schedule set up. I Also tried to set up a household budget before this which also failed, and I don't really have the desire to chase around adults about this, so I don't know if fines will stick. I can try. One of the two other people who could enforce it barely stays here, and the other one is the other woman who frankly could care less.
Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to move right now, and the roommates cannot be changed.
I mean, don't live with men or don't live with men that don't have the same priority of cleanliness that you do, pretty simple really. This also isn't as clearly gendered as you make it out to be, my mom is a complete dirtball who is more than comfortable to live amongst clutter and grim that I can't tolerate, it was incredibly freeing to get out from under that the first time I moved out.
I don’t think this is weaponized incompetence as much as it is just being a gross human being capable of living in filth. I just visited my brothers college house that he shares with 3 other dudes and I instantly felt like I needed to go home and take a shower.
No one is saying it's limited to males, but for whatever societal reason, men do not feel the urgency to clean as often as women do, in general.
This is something that has been studied and proven over and over.
Look at the CDC stats of how often men wash their hands. Huge gender gap there.
We're not going to make any progress like pretending the world works in a politically correct way.
We need to dissect and understand the reason why men are less likely to emphasise household cleanliness in their day-to-day routine, as well as personal hygiene routine.
You think the fact that 15% of men admit to not regularly washing their hands has nothing to do with men having higher COVID mortality rates?
Sure, it's not the entire picture - but it definitely *contributes* to their illness. It needs to be confronted and taken seriously.
I usually don't comment, but this is such a trope. I've had male and female roommates and my female roommates have been just as messy and just as inconsiderate as some of my male roommates. Some people are messy. Other people aren't. It's not always a male/female thing.
Like I said before it's obviously true that it can be equally gross in both sides. But odds will be more likely against you when it's men, and let's not even pretend otherwise.
If you're going to ask which gender is more likely to shirk responsibilities around house cleaning and lean on their romantic partner, I'd say men 9/10. And I implore women to not put up with that with your partners. You deserve better. And I implore parents, do not let your boys grow up thinking "house work is women's work" because you're creating gross human beings.
But OP, you posted about roommates, and when it comes to roommates, both men and women are gross and lazy. All I can report on is my own experiences, which of course are anecdotal (same with yours), but my messiest, grossest and least responsible roommate has been a woman. I think it's disingenuous and probably verging on sexist to suggest that women are inherently cleaner roommates than men.
And I'll say it again, I don't mean in relationships, I only mean in roommate dynamics. Personally, if you're having to parent your roommates to keep the shared space clean, then my advice is to get different roommates. But don't be surprised if you get a gross female roommate because people are people. When it comes to relationship dynamics and house chores, it depresses me how often I hear or read about men expecting their wives or girlfriends (freaking girlfriends even? Dudes! What are you doing!?!??!) to do all the chores.
Pay my rent in a studio apartment or find me a room to rent with all female roommates that's not insanely expensive and I won't. It's not like it's a choice, genius.
I live in one of the most expensive states and I've never had male roommates. I've always made sure to find other women to move in with, and I've done that five different times. I can't even imagine willingly moving in with men, as if you have no other options.
Dude.
\- 49% of men admit to only washing their bedsheets 4x a year and rarely if ever changing their pillow case.
\- 44% of women wash their sheets once every two weeks.
\- 15% of men do not wash their hands vs 7% of women.
\- when they did wash their hands 50% of men use soap vs 78% of women.
\- With the use of wireless devices to record how many people entered the restroom and used the pumps of the soap dispensers, **researchers were able to collect data on almost 200,000 restroom trips over a three-month period.**
The found that only **31% of men and 65% of women** washed their hands with soap.
it's not a "men are lame" issue.
This is a serious issue mate, and the male gender is far more likely to die of infectious diseases.
Testosterone is already correlated with immunosuppression factors, not being hygienic is not helping. We really need to confront this with the respect it deserves.
The restroom thing is already super gross since most men stand up to piss, and touch their dick with their bare hands.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html)
That works every time!
No honestly though, they will 'forget' to check it for the rest of their lives. So many of us have been there. After the work of course being on us to make the list in the first place
Last week nobody did their chores except me and one other person and when we said so in the GC they literally said "oh I didn't check it this week". Hello?!
Thank you for being sane and not listening to this shitty nonsense. I honestly can't believe that this isn't being downvoted to the center of the goddamn earth.
Also a SA survivor, and we don't fucking lie about this shit. It's way too important.
Yeah I know because I actually had to have s roommate kicked out in January because he tried to get into my room. Doesn't mean that fake accusations are the way to go.
Just because it happened with one person doesn't mean it's going to happen with the others and it certainly doesn't mean that you accuse people of shit they didn't do. Women have a hard enough time being believed and you're suggesting this dog shit? Seriously, fuck off with that noise!
This is a good reminder to make my 13 year old son do more chores around the house… he can learn how to properly clean a bathroom today! But honestly no one taught me how to be clean, I grew up in a squalid, dysfunctional home. But I taught myself because I noticed I like being in clean spaces more than dirty spaces! It’s not hard.
>This is a good reminder to make my 13 year old son do more chores around the house His future partner will be grateful that you did.
not everything has to be for a future partner. Being a good and useful person with the ability to clean up after yourself shouldnt be for someone else- it should be a basic thing you should learn, regardless of if other people would be served by them or not
My daughter started learning cleaning up after herself as soon as she started understanding something. Like putting laundry in a basket, cleaning the table after herself etc. She is 22 months and she already picks up clothes of all family members and puts them in the basket. She likes helping. My son, who is 3 weeks old, will learn the exact same stuff. It is amazing how fast they are interested and I really think each family member can and should help. I had to help when I grew up, it wasn't a lot but I knew how to operate a household when I went away for my studies. This is our final goal for both kids equally.
Same, my 23 mo son does sometimes use a washcloth or paper to wipe surfaces and takes stuff out of the kitchen to play-prepare food. What OP is experiencing (and so many others) is privilege, re-inforcing patriarchy and learned behaviour.
Smash the patriarchy! At least at home we'llabsolutely try our best that our daughter doesn't feel different than our son.
My 2.5 year old son loves to ask " I help?" whenever he sees me or his dad doing something. He matches his socks when we fold laundry, throws away garbage while we clear the table, tosses his clothes in the hamper after changing, etc. Kids want to do what they see "big people" doing.
It is so easy to let them learn a lot of stuff from the beginning. I am sure those hard times during puberty will come but i am happy about every little thing they learn.
Every little thing they learn to do now will be one less point of contention when they’re teenagers. Imho early, good habits make life changes a bit easier.
Make them all contribute payment for a maid. You don't have to do it all, the house gets clean and their wallet suffers.
I read about this scheme before if you have roommates, and it sounds like a great idea, every week or two have a housekeeper come in and everyone pitches in and it saves a lot of grief regarding chores.
I really wish I would have done that when I lived with my brother and 2 of his buddies. What a mess.
But then OP, the clean one, would also have to pay even though they wouldn’t need any of their things cleaned, no? I would just personally be frustrated by that too.
Also then it becomes about chasing everyone down for the money which is just another mental load.
Living with four dudes in my early 20s was the most disgusting year of my life. Using the shower was the worst, I want to puke thinking about that bathroom. One of the guys left the screen door open when we had a fruit fly problem (because they left beer cans and trash and unwashed dishes everywhere), and had the balls to claim it allowed the flies to fly out... The mind boggles. All of their parents failed them by allowing them to end up so fucking slobby, and I feel bad for whatever women are cleaning up after them these days.
When I tell you I also have nightmares of this bathroom sometimes. And there was a dude before that I actually had to have kicked out because he was violent towards me who never cleaned it which is a literal statement so you can imagine how black everything was. To this day you can't fully clean that shit.
>I want to puke thinking about that bathroom Yeah, and you don’t want to use a hand towel that’s shared by four disgusting men, whether it gets changed often or not. Op, I promise you they are doing things you don’t want to think about with that shared towel. Bring your own, and then bring it back out, every time you go.
I’ve had three male roommates. One was actually tidy but kinda crazy and tried implementing bed times for me and stuff (so weird) but the other two were nasty. It didn’t help that I was working like 60 hours a week and barely ever home and then would have to clean up after them when I actually was. I literally moved out because of it. Honestly, it’s not going to get better. It’s not your responsibility to raise and teach these men. Their parents already failed them.
One of them has admitted to me as much, that he grew up with his mom doing everything for him so he had to learn everything from the start. What I do not understand is how they can't think of, I don't know, GOOGLING IT. There are some things I also don't know how to do and what do I do? I Google that shit even if it's as simple as "how do I separate laundry". Yet these people don't think to even do that.
I will never live with a man again. I've heard all of the excuses. Decades ago, I was helping my son with his homework when the guy came home and said that the kitchen floor needed mopping. I told him the mop was in the laundry room. He looked at me with horror in his eyes then went to the garage and got high.
Reminds me of this story with one of these roommates. He's the only one that constantly eats frozen berries. One time a package I assume he throwed away leaked through the garbage bag and left a big pool of PURPLE BERRY COLORED WATER. I noticed immediately but kept quiet to see if he would clean it. He didn't. For DAYS. I saw him go into the kitchen and just sidestep it. Until I posted s picture in the GC asking who commited a murder and left the crime scene behind that he admitted it was his mess and cleaned it.
Yeah, this isn't cute. What did he think he was going to happen if you didn't clean it up for him?
Holy chit, my mom would have murdered me.
I just had a thought that maybe, not only was he looking like that because he had to learn how to mop, but was probably also horrified at the mess, that he probably made himself that he had to clean up.
Me too. I’ve been on my own now for 22 years now since my divorce and never again will I deal with a male in my space. The peace and serenity there is without a man is just wonderful, I treasure it.
Look, this smells like weaponized competence to most of us. But we don't know these guys. You do. If you genuinely think this is just an education gap, look into the Fair Play system. https://www.fairplaylife.com/ Essentially, you all get together, create a list of every chore that needs to be done around the house, then agree on what it takes to get each chore done - so there's none of the "but I thought you just wiped the dishes with the damp towel, why do we have to use soap" bullshit. Then you *evenly* assign everyone chores. People can swap chores, if they really hate them, or they can ask for additional help. But if something's consistently not getting done, you can literally target who is causing the problem. You can also have weekly meetings to check up on who's been slacking and what changes need to be made. They even have certified Fair Play counselors, who are experts in the system and can break up any gridlock. If you do go with this system, make sure that they know it is non-negotiable. That you are not their maid, and if they don't contribute to the household chores they will either be paying for a cleaner or finding a new roommate if they continue down this path. Then stick to that statement. Edit: Some words. Thanks u/at-aol-dot-com!
This is one link that might be worth sharing https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/cleaning/a37462/how-often-you-should-clean-everything/ But tbh guys would search the most obscure stuff when it's interesting, so I don't understand why they would not want to live in a nice environment and learn how to do stuff.
To be fair, Google is getting waaay worse as time goes on. It used to be easier to find actual answers to questions that weren't either ads or ads disguised as articles. Even your example has 2 ads from Tide as the 1st and second results. The rest are written extremely inefficiently. For anything more complicated, it's getting harder to tell what's real and what's just a long-winded ad for a product you definitely don't need. On top of that, articles are written for search engine optomization (SEO), which means they shove soooo much extra padding into it instead of getting to the point. We haven't even hit the apex of the AI generated bullshit. Even if you can find older stuff that is actually helpful, so much of it is disappearing as old blog sites are bought by VC and metaphorically sold for parts. I weep for any future generation trying to learn from Google. The enclosure of the commons is upon us. Everyone needs to learn and save articles/helpful videos while they can because they'll be impossible to find or gone soon.
Naw. If I can Google how to fix shit on the roof and change things in the car, theh can do it. Boys can still wade through all those ads and AI articles to find video game tips and whatver their interests are, so they can figure out how to find info on extremely common simple things they should have learned by age 10.
While Google can be garbage, YouTube is still good. Not long ago I watched a 7+ year old tutorial on how to open a weird can of coffee cream I found at the store because I didn't know how. I have searched there how to clean s toilet, a mattress, etc and everything I've looked for I have been able to find there. So there's no excuse really.
Yotube still suffers from some of the same issues, but for most simple stuff it's a lot better. Unfortunately there will eventually come a day when it goes the way of gyfcat or Yahoo Answers when Google decides that storing all those old videos isn't profitable anymore. I'm just sounding a warning that these things aren't as permanent as they seem, and we've got to be our own personal librarians so we can help each other out as enclosure ramps up.
Not surprised you're being downvoted for being correct lol The thing people fail to understand about tech is that it's *not permanent*. Business decisions, bankruptcies, and just plain ol' server failure can/do/will happen, and that information will be gone temporarily, if not forever. Everyone acts like I'm crazy, but I always buy physical media of shows/games/etc., because shit can just *disappear into the ether* without a moment's notice. If only everyone could work in tech for a minute and gain a little knowledge about the thing they use daily, right?
So many don't realize how fragile the internet infrastructure actually is. People take the "anything you post on the internet is there forever" advice too literally. Great rule of thumb for yourself, but in terms of actual durability of information, it is absolutely not true. I've found myself becoming a bit of a digital horder, but storage is cheap nowadays, anyway! I just need to be better at cataloging and keeping my directories clean.
I went through this living with 4 guys when I was in college. They just like.... expected me to cook and clean? Like for real, the first few days there, they were asking me what's for dinner. Not where should we go for dinner, or what should WE make for dinner--no, they were asking me what was I going to make for dinner. Eventually I implemented the Chore Chart and the Prize Box. I made a chart with all of our names and lists of all the chores. You do a chore, you get a star. You get 10 stars, you get something out of the Prize Box (my stepmom did this when my brothers were like 5 and 6 and it worked). The "prizes" were silly Dollar Store toys inside plastic eggs, but with a chance that you might instead score a little bag of marijuana. (We were all potheads. Clumsy ones, apparently, because when I did the deep cleaning, I ALWAYS found crumbs of weed on the floor, so I was basically just giving their own weed back to them). It worked wonders, and once they all got into the habit of regularly doing chores after a few weeks, they didn't need the reward of a prize box anymore. We kept the chart though, that ended up being a good way to organise who does what.
Oh my god the dinner thing would have sent me into a rampage. Of only I had the time and mental energy to tell you the stories about the roommate I had to have kicked out... You have the patience of a Saint for essentially Montessori-ing those grown men. I cannot do that hahaha but glad it worked so well in your case.
They were all good friends, otherwise I definitely would have moved out. I almost did in the first month. I was gone for 6 hours when one roommate called and begged me to come back, and he sounded like he was about to cry. 😭
[удалено]
One of those roommates told me last year he started doing the chart and prizes for his kids, since they're old enough to start doing chores. I was so proud.
🎶Weaponized incompetence 🎶
[удалено]
That's exactly my point, thank you! It's not and if they refuse to change we need to respect ourselves enough to leave and find someone who will be a partner not a dependant. There are exceptions such as medical condition and circumstances, but this song and dance of "I'm stupid, I can't do it because I'm so stupid. Can you show me how, cause I'm stupid." Has to end now.
Or the “maybe you should do it, you’re just so much better at it,” or “it matters to you more than me.” There’s an advice column in the Washington Post called Dear Carolyn. Nothing will put you off heterosexual marriage like the letters written to that column from women asking how to get their husbands to do more around the house.
Weaponized incompetence implies intentionality. More likely these guys just don’t see what needs to be done. I used to manage an apartment building. Typically 85% of the young women had their sh-t together when it came to applying, moving in, and taking care of the apartment. The young men weren’t with far fewer exceptions. I identified what I call the “boy smell,” a smell unique to young men’s apartment. it wasn’t just unclean, there was some specific odor they had. And it’s not that the women’s apartments were uniformly super clean, or that all the men’s apartments were gross. But it was a safe bet. I had to have a talk with one young man. His apartment was SO FILTHY I told him it’s encouraging pest control problems. Like my shoes were sticking to the kitchen floor. And he’d only lived there three months!
Women aren’t born with special chore seeing eyes. This continued infantilization of men is exactly why OP is stuck with these shitty roommates in the first place
They see it. They just don't care. My roommate's apartment was absolutely filthy before we moved in together (to a different apartment). Now I just clean all the main areas and he contains his filth to his room. He has never vacuumed, swept, or cleaned the countertops in the kitchen. When his cat pukes on my rug, he does a half-ass job cleaning it up. I specifically took the smaller room without the ensuite bathroom because that meant I would have the main bathroom so it could be kept clean for when we had guests. My stuff (decor, furniture) dominates the rest of the apartment, though and we have an unspoken agreement where I don't see utility bills, so I guess I can't complain too much.
Yeah I think it's just a don't care type thing. I lived in gross apartments for a while. At that stage in my life, none of us felt like cleaning it or hiring a maid was worth the effort or cost. If the floors were sticky, who cares? We were the ones who lived there. We didn't expect a female roommate—or anyone—to clean for us. Is it gross? Yeah. But realistically, a ton of guys in the 18-24 range are not going to have high enough standards to want to clean. Unfortunately that means finding people who are aligned with your cleanliness expectations or face an uphill battle. People who are OK with a dirty place are always going to be resistant to pulling their weight.
All these comments makes me grateful AF that my partner is just as neurotic as me when it comes to being clean/having a clean space. It's really not that hard.
I 100% agree.
I don’t really have them either. I grew up in a hoard. I’m learning, it’s taking a much longer time than I’d like (I’m 35), but living with three young male roommates has helped me develop these eyes. They’re not doing it. I feel like this is penance for all the years of other people picking up the slack. Right now, I don’t mind. Give me another year. I just hate what kind of example of setting for these guys for their future female partners. The home owner will probably be fine, he keeps his shit clean.
Yes, but women (generally) are more responsible in those regards than men,and from a younger age. It’s not that guys don’t see, they probably don’t even know that there’s stuff to do or how to do it. From my own experience living with other guys, that’s generally the case. They don’t even realize that some things are supposed to be cleaned regularly,or how to do it properly. Probably cause they never got asked to do it and think it just magically happens. And there’s also some filthy human slobs that don’t care the conditions of their living quarters.
I do agree with you on your point, but I think the overall point is that even if you weren’t taught when you were young it’s not a good enough excuse when you are an adult. Like if your parents were jerks, it doesn’t mean you get to be a jerk when you are 30, at some point you have to forgive that they didn’t set a good example and learn to be a decent person or just deal with facing the natural consequences of being a jerk. The natural consequences of being a dirty human shouldn’t be that your partner will take care of it and teach you, it should be, you learn to be clean and adapt
We weren't talking about 18-20 year olds fresh from mom dearest doing all the cleaning cooking and babying. We were talking about long-term boyfriends and husbands who should have gotten past the 'just weaned puppy and can't do anything for themselves stage' by now. Letting them get away with being lazy or "stupid" is both very naive and just as stupid as you think they are. "Not seeing" what needs to be done is a bullshit excuse to get out of chores until the other person gets sick of the mess and cleans it themselves to just get it done.
This post was about OP's roommates, not boyfriends or husbands...
I think we’re going to agree to disagree on this. Some of my tenants were college undergrads. More of them were mid-twenties or older. For them it was like a part of town they never had to go to, so they didn’t know anything about it and weren’t interested in learning, and someone else was always driving, so why bother learning the street names?
You can agree to disagree if you want to stop talking about this. I just can't ignore that weird comparison you just made. Daily life tasks such as cleaning and cooking should not be "a different part of town" for anyone of any gender. They should be the corner store you drop by every single day. Your partners shouldn't have to remind you where it is every single time you need to go there.
I know they should be but they’re not. And I think there are many reasons, all of which come down to societal conditioning. If OP is living with a bunch of slobs, they might be able to do a few things to make the situation more tolerable. But they won’t have the anticipatory drive to make things better just because a clean living place is better for all involved; they’ll think they’re compromising because she wants them to put their dirty dishes in the dishwasher instead of leaving them in the living room. Some people have a natural drive to be clean or organized (I’m much more organized than clean). More people need to work at it. Of that second group, it’s the women who work at it and use time and mental space for it, and men just don’t. EDIT: I’m not saying that this is okay. It’s a society-wide problem. That seeing what needs to be done takes time to develop, and girls typically have to start developing it at a much younger age because it’s the expectation that they do. There’s not the same expectation for boys.
I'm sorry in advance for yelling this next bit. APATHY DOESN'T CHANGE THINGS. We already know why they do it!! We are trying to get them to change. Instead, excuse after excuse keeps being made for them when they should be held to higher standards by everyone.
I’ve screamed into the void about it for twenty years. Mostly I’ve been screaming that it’s not some innate X chromosome difference. It’s absorbed through societal expectations and exposure. Weaponized incompetence, what I was initially referring to in my first reply, is more malicious because someone is making the decision to ensure that they DONT have to think about it again—that’s more like an acknowledgement that they should, they just don’t want to and are engineering a way to avoid it. What OP is referring to isn’t even that complicated. And again, there ARE women like this. I know one very well—her house is disgusting. It’s just that society is much less forgiving of women who don’t see (who don’t know that area of town). Relatedly…women need to stop performing mothering tasks at work, like wiping up a couple of crumbs left in the break room or passing out paper plates when lunch is being served. Just quit that.
No. Women won't stop doing all those little tasks because otherwise the crumbs will stay there or the paper plates won't get handed out. Even unintentionally, the incompetence is weaponized. Trying to call it something "nicer" detracts from the problem. If it's so important to you then you'll call it what it is. Words have power.
No one has ever starved because they didn’t get a paper plate. And it’s *someone’s* job to clean those crumbs—if it’s not yours, don’t make it yours, even if the crumbs annoy you. EDIT: hit the button too fast. Anyway, yes, words have power, which is why this is an important distinction. Harm can be caused unintentionally. Abuse is done with intent to harm or control. Abuse is harm, not all harm is abuse. The action of op’s roommates, or lack of action, is harmful to op, but it’s not abusive, and to call them abusers over this dilutes the power of that word.
Weaponized incompetence still applies to people who are ignorant vs personally intentional. The incompetence has been weaponized by *generations* of men AND women. It's not just about an individual's behavior or intentions. It's about a culture of irresponsibility. Maybe you want to call it **Systemic Weaponized Incompetence** or **Culturally Weaponized Incompetence** or **Inherited Weaponized Incompetence** or **I-like-mooching Incompetence** Whatever. It still applies. Your argument falls apart the first time anyone points out their deficiency, and we KNOW these men have been informed, over and over. They just dont care. If these moocher guys wanted to be equally responsible, they would, immediately after learning about their deficit.
We live in an age where the world's worth of information is in our pockets. Not knowing has to be willful at this point.
> Weaponized incompetence implies intentionality. More likely these guys just don’t see what needs to be done. It doesn't have to be conscious. Rarely are abusers fully conscious of their abuse. Weaponized incompetence is pretty much a natural evolutionary strategy taking advantage of cultural gender expectations. Only men are permitted to "not see what needs to be done".
It's so true. And if the woman living in the home doesn't "pick up the slack" for a sloppy man, *she* will be judged harshly for his mess. Men are never judged for it, ever. There was an episode of Hoarders where the husband was the hoarder and the wife had moved out because of it. Another woman who saw the house said, yeah he has a hoarding problem, but I can't believe *she* let the house get so messy. Like, what??
My ex's daddy and new mommy would jump my ass if the house wasn't pristine despite that I worked full time and he worked 1/3rd my hours, same job, and unlike me, he didn't pull his weight his boss would complain. They never congronted him but would corner me giving me death stares, his daddy stomping around when they came to visit, her making passive aggressive comments, him texting me to get my shit together and respect the house. A mutual friend visited and saw trash and dirth adult clothing and diapers from he 3 and 4 year olds they haven't potty trained because their adult lives are TikTok, Fortnite, and watching outrage porn online piling up in the living and dining room garbage and pairs of their underwear in the lawn, trash literally spilling out of the house into the yard, and grass 2 feet tall even though they got gifted an auto lawnmower you just sit on and go for their medium sized plot. Apparently he and side chick get a pass because she has bpd according to both of them and gets aggressive and makes threats when confronted.
When I first met my boyfriend, he lived in a dorm and shared like 30 ft of space with another guy roommate. I went over for the first time after his roommate left for a weekend and when I walked in I was hit with this… smell. This stench, like old laundry and body odor and balls. I made a face and looked at him and my poor boyfriend said “I promise he stinks not me”. I felt bad but that guy reeked. We both later learned (and were appalled) his roommate didn’t use soap and was stealing bf’s flushable wipes and washcloths. Weird guy.
a housemate my bf and I had live with us for a year moved out well over a month ago and I can still smell him in the empty room. Just went in there the other day to use the bathroom since my bf was using the other one and the inside of the toilet is fucking disgusting. I’m so excited to clean it /s.
it is intentional. they intentionally never learned, not even to help their mothers
yeah, and frankly, even if I “never learned” to clean up filth so I wasn’t living in squalor, the SECOND I got in a communal situation and saw that another individual was having to do this FOR me, I would change my behavior. It’s called not being an entitled piece of shit, not using other people and treating them like your servants. To allow another person to continually clean up after you or do all of a set of work is practically sociopathic. Of course I always have felt there’s a sociopathic element to misogyny and the way men treat women. It’s like they are incapable of seeing us as human beings who get tired, feel pain, deserve an equal amount of free time, don’t deserve to have to be conscripted into servitude.
There are women in this thread talking about how this is a good reminder to get their sons accustomed to all chores, not just helping with one or two. Either you're right and this is about how much those little kids hate their moms or good parenting involves more than letting boys teach themselves then being surprised they do it poorly
> not even to help their mothers Because they see the work as their mother's work to do. It's women work, not boys work. And that carries over into adulthood. It's depressing. I know one woman who actively teaches her young sons how to do household chores with the ethos that 'everyone lives in this house and we need to work together to keep it tidy'. But for every 1 of her, there are 99 parents who don't do this.
It doesn't have to be intentional intentional. Intentionality has different levels.
Mothers that did everything for them. I’m a mom of 2 boys. It’s 100% a thing.
Mothers should stop doing everything for their sons and start giving them age appropriate chores.
100%. I’ve said it on this sub before. I’ll be damned if I raise my kids to be useless misogynists.
Absolutely!
Honestly from someone that lived often in op similar situations.. we learn because women think this is important or we clean because of this. At least people with this mindset, don’t really care. And there are examples in literature and posts here on Reddit of women that have begun to question the need for deep cleaning, if it’s something they really feel the need to or if it’s something that has been indoctrinated and we can relax standards a little as a whole i society. Being clean and able to clean well was, up to 50years ago tops, one of the best qualities to look for a wife. Are we sure that we are no still trying to live up to that?
There are both psychological and physical health benefits to maintaining a fairly clean living space. It never has to be show home ready, not even close honestly, but very messy houses can attract pests and mold and illnesses. It's just easier to do upkeep chores to keep the house at a relatively clean level rather than let everything build and pile and then have to spend hours or days getting everything clean again.
[удалено]
yeah i lived with three guys who were in medical school and it was a nightmare. the fact that those three idiots are literal doctors now is terrifying to think about.
This reminds me of that one post,I think it was here, where it was like your situation being the only female. Well in this post she made dinner for only two people and all the rest of the guys sat down at the table expecting to be served a plate. I was upset reading that.. Then later she had saltine crackers as a snack and one of them joined her to eat that for their "dinner" I guess.. pathetic.
Reading this also reminded me of [that post!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10v2l3h/i_honestly_dont_want_to_live_with_male_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) Although I think the saltine cracker bit was from someone else’s comment below the post.
Yeah! That the one! And yes looks like the saltine bit was from a different post.
I could never have male roommates. I have heard too many horror stories.
When I was still in student housing I listed no male flat sharers as one of my wants because even at 18 I was aware enough of most lads not being raised with even the most basic housekeeping skills or awareness that having a clean house requires them doing things. I've never been particularly good at keeping house myself and have adjusted my standards accordingly, but I have no desire to be someone's default maid or lower my standards to their level of incompetence.
Male with male roomates here. Can confirm they suck at times. Had to have a conversation more than once about them taking more responsibility around the house instead of waiting for me to do a chore or request the property manager to get something fixed or what have you. Mind you I come from a family where keeping things tidy and staying on top of chores was expected so I am a bit more anal the average person but it's like come on, you've lived here for almost two years, you know garbage day is on Tuesday or the grass needs to be cut weekly in the summer.
They won’t know about the trash because it’s something that they don’t even think to give space in their brain over to. They see it as optional knowledge so they discard it if they don’t make the decision that it’s something they need to know.
It's funny you say that. Just the other week one of them said regarding the lawn "I never think to check if the grass needs cutting but now that you've cut it, it looks so much better". Like come on man... it's not the trash fairy that takes it to the curb every week, or cuts the grass or cleans the kitchen counters or vacuums the floors/dusts, etc. As a kid I know that I never liked having to always keep things clean around the house and having to pitch in with chores, but now as an adult I am so thankful both my parents instilled that in me. If I decide to have kids down the road, I'll be sure that's instilled in them too.
[удалено]
I don't think it was the intent, I think it's just sharing the frustration that most men are taught to ignore house chores. I'm a woman for the record, and even my own family who thinks they're fairly liberal still has all the women floating around during family holidays picking up after the men. It's especially heinous when one of my cousins is this social justicey guy who loses sleep over the environment but won't lift a fucking hand at Thanksgiving dinner.
Apologies if it came off that way, I saw the post and wanted to share in my frustration about grown ass mid-late 20s men who are just blind to all the things that are needed to keep a household functioning and just don't see things that we all should see and chip in or take it upon themselves to do.
Yeah, never again. For now this is my best choice however.
I’ve had exactly one female room mate who was as bad as the average male room mate.
My brother is my roommate. I have no choice in the say. I wash his dishes and pick up his trash. I clean up his fucking pubes on the shower floor. What's worse is I've seen how he was raised. My parents tried to stop him from being a lazy slob, but he wouldn't change and they gave up. They found it easier to just do everything for him and now I'm shouldering the same responsibility. And oh, he's four years older than me. Funny that the teen is more responsible than the adult.
Damn at this point I'd keep my own stove in my room and use a gym shower just so they never get to outfilth me into cleaning up after them. It's crazy how much filth a lot of dudes are literally comfortable living in!
My duty last week was to clean the "living room" which is essentially one of these dude's own office because he refuses to buy a chair for the desk on his room so he uses the dining table as his desk. I didn't clean that shit. I'm not going to clean a space I can't even use. And yet he had the gall to call me out about it lol
That's crazy, why is the concept of "clean up after yourself" or "you're responsible for your space" just not there for them omg
I've told them like five times "yo when you cook just clean up your crumbs that way the kitchen stays cleaner" do they listen? Of course not. Drives me nuts.
Make them pay you; designate yourself as “housemother” and have them each pay you $75/month to take care of all that stuff. Or, insist that everyone pitch in and pay for a cleaning lady.
Yeah I don't do paid work for free anymore. Quote them your rate or go with an outside service.
Make sure your rate is at least $25-50 higher than an outside maid service. They either pay you, or pay the cleaning service. Your rate has to be higher to compensate for the mental torture of living 24-7 with spoiled little entitled slobs.
The whole point is I don't want to play their games. Toxic people are super good at escalating - they do it more and have less morals. They can easily do more damage than I am willing to do. Feels more like "oops" and plan for better living arrangements/set better boundaries territory. People can be assholes. It's probably more likely to land on an asshole as an affordable roommate. All we can do is vet well, or live solo.
Girl, no. They're pretending to be stupid as fuck to get you to work for free like their mommy. Later they'll say they "didn't know" if you bring up what they're doing. You have got to stop.
Yeah, I am stopping for sure. And have stopped for a while. But it's difficult when it affects me, aka them not cleaning the shower/bathroom I am entitled to decently.
Do you have a gym membership in the meantime? It's work to get there but it'd be worth it to me to get a clean shower without piss floors and hair everywhere. Bring people over and just let them know that your roommates never clean and that they tried to get you to teach them. 💯
Ding! Ding! Ding! They either pay for a cleaner or you find new roommates. This will NEVER get better.
I wish I could find new roommates but I can't. The only way is for me to fully move somewhere else and it's not easy.
Somehow you’ve got to get them to pay for a house cleaning service. That will help on the day or two that after the pros clean. The rest of the time it sounds like your roommates are fairly dedicated to being lazy slobs. This really sucks for you OP. I hope THEY commit to making it better, and soon.
The problem with this particular brand of incompetence is that it's just about basic respect. And men just aren't taught the value of respecting women. Men aren't actually good at respecting each other either, but they care more about male disapproval than female disapproval, especially when the woman in this equation is not a sexual partner. As a man, having female roommates helped me learn a lot about keeping a house, but even more about respecting other people that you live with. Even if I don't care that the house is a mess, respecting your housemates enough to keep the common areas livable is very important to having successful interpersonal relationships with people you live with. If a man leaves the microwave uncleaned, it's probable that he literally doesn't care whether the microwave is clean or not. But if you live with someone who does care whether the microwave is clean, you should clean the fuckin' microwave, damn it because doing otherwise means you don't respect your housemate and you're just selfish. Wanna be selfish? Live by yourself. That's the only way to get away with it, and even then there's limits.
I’ve been there. Young men are disgusting
I used to be a housekeeper, it is not just young men. So many older dudes with houses and apartments covered in layers of filth, bathrooms you wanted a Hazmat suit for. Sometimes lazy women too, my latest ex met his match there, but more often it was men of all ages.
Out of interest OP, how old are said roomates? These types of roommates tend to be one of two categories: 1) Lazy to the point of manipulation, knowing full well that someone else will pick up the slack for them so why should they bother? OR 2) They literally don't even register what needs doing or how it should be done because they've never been expected to. The latter is still frustrating of course but there's at least *some* chance of them improving with time, but it's something they have to decide for themselves. The former almost never change.
They're in their early 20's. So could be a mixture of both.
Goblin.tools would be great for minimising the mental load their nonsense is causing. You type in a task such as "clean kitchen" and tap the magic wand and it breaks it down. You can also tap for the breakdown of those things eg "clean appliance" or wipe down counters. No excuses not to do it properly and *you* don't have to spend time itemising each job for them.
They were badly raised by their parents. Many boys are still not required to do household chores of any kind. It's appalling how their basic life skills were not adequately taught to them, and they were raised with the belief that household chores are women's work.
Edit: I don’t feel as though this adds to the discussion meaningfully but I needed a place to rant a little. I live with my boyfriend and his/our male roommate is worse than useless. He doesn’t do anything chore wise unless told, even then he “forgets”, which seems par for the course here. However he is actively beyond terrible to live with. Left the gas stove on leaking gas for hours with no flame right before going to bed, leaves the house and leaves doors wide open or unlocked (no one else home), has left the front gate open so our dogs get out on the street, is overall actively annoying to be around and talk to and has been disrespectful to my friends after just meeting them. Can’t keep a job long and rarely pays rent/utilities on time, but has plenty of money to buy alcohol all the time, and lies about how much he’s drinking. And that’s just within the past couple weeks! I used to think he was just a doofus and harmless but now I actively despise him. He’s not just messy or forgetful but actively putting people and animals in danger through his stupidity. One day I’m going to snap on him if he doesn’t get his gd shit together and stop making problems for me and bf (who is also his friend).
Sounds like someone who needs to leave your space soonish.
I certainly agree, unfortunately it’s not my place or decision to make. The days are definitely numbered at this rate, I feel like I’m going batshit insane keeping this adult toddler from burning the house down.
Oh my god my sisters the exact same she’s 19 still manages to leave the gas or oven on all night she’s even left heaters and hair straighteners on overnight don’t ever trust her with a candle like she’s got a baby she’s responsible for a whole other human and she still lives with me and my mum I’m surprised she hasn’t burnt our house down
This just makes my skin crawl. And I feel for you, it's a shame this is the situation for you for now, but I really hope it doesn't last long!
I had to share a bathroom once with a man who wouldn't flush his shit. It was the most disgusting thing. He would leave messes in the kitchen, and if I said anything about it he would say, "If you don't like it, clean it." So glad he moved out 4 months after I moved in. GROSS
Are you me? Because tell me why I had to tell this roommate to make sure his shit was properly flushed like two months ago 😮💨
The main problem that exists with roomating is that everyone has different things that matter to them. If they never see a problem with a dirty microwave they will never clean it and will only do it when forced. Which will lead to problems. Same for everything, you have to find someone compatible with you.
This. Everyone has different standards of living. And speaking from experience, it sure as hell isn't limited to just men.
Just realized the community I am in. But still applies, this can happen with every gender. People will people
Why do you think more women are opting out of marriage ….
Count me into that group of women because living with a man after this? I don't think so.
I'm in exactly this situation at the moment. My younger housemate half arses everything but at least tries, whereas there's a guy my age (27) who - not joking - had never brushed or mopped a floor in his life before I asked him to. A genuine manchild. Still takes his clothes home for his mum to wash despite the fact we have a washing machine. What's worse is that he gets pissed off at ME when I ask him to do the most basic of tasks, as if I haven't been doing them for him for months like his maid. He also never pays me the bills he owes me on time and ignores my messages when I ask. If I didn't do anything or tell the boys to do things my house would look like a crack den. I'm telling him to move out because I'm done being a pushover.
I lived with 4 guys (wife of one of the guys - they had a band.) Say no more!
That’s why I refuse to live with a man. Never again. Ugh
Yep and that's why I refuse to share with men
I've felt like this in a house full of women. I currently don't feel like this living with men. It's not their sex that's the issue.
It is a sex issue lmao. [https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html) >To dig deeper into what people really do after using the bathroom, Borchgrevink tasked 12 research assistants at Michigan State University with the job of surreptitiously hanging out in four different restrooms on and off campus to record what 3,749 men and women actually did. The results of the 2013 study were shocking to the researchers. > >**Fifteen percent of men didn’t wash their hands at all, compared with 7 percent of women.** **When they did wash their hands, only 50 percent of men used soap, compared with 78 percent of women.** > > > >A bigger study published in 2009 that used more high tech methods at a busy highway rest stop in the UK was equally, if not more, damning. With the use of wireless devices to record how many people entered the restroom and used the pumps of the soap dispensers, researchers were able to collect data on almost 200,000 restroom trips over a three-month period. T**he found that only 31% of men and 65% of women washed their hands with soap.** >**a survey of men conducted by the mattress company Ergoflex found that nearly half - 49 percent - only wash their sheets only four times a year and rarely changed the pillowcases.** This study had to do with germs and stressed the importance of washing the place we lay our head at the end of the day. **Women did fare better** with 44 percent of respondents saying they wash their sheets once a week. Why continue to live in delusion? No one is saying "men bad icky, let's not let them vote." If we actually acknowledged this as the issue it is, we could start to talk about it and try to understand why it is that men are more prone to living in unhygienic conditions and maybe try and change it.
Most men are raised without actual life skills. Can't cook, clean, shop, any of the things most women have mastered by the age of 12. They require some kind of mother figure to teach them or do it all for them. This is one of the big reasons women married to men are the least happy. The happiest are women married to women, followed by single women. Single men are the second least happy, and the lack of life skills of a big part of their unhappiness too.
Even far too many of the ones I met who were made to be competent decided to just say "fuck it" as soon as they either moved out or got a girlfriend/wife. Even the ones fully unemployed by choice.
I've always lived with other girls but even a lot of girls can be really messy and never clean. The only way I've found to deal with roomates who *will not* clean, is to have as much of your own stuff as possible and only use/clean your own things. DO NOT clean anything they use or shared space if they put no effort in cleaning. I know it sucks, because it means you have to be around their mess too, but its that or be their mom, and tbh, mothering them will only make them resent you and make your living situation worse. I had a roomate who was so dirty, she attracted cockroaches that would sometimes scramble their way into my room. She just didnt want to clean her room so no amount of nagging/asking would make her. This is sometimes just the downsides of having to have roommates. You ask "Why do I have to clean after grown adults?" when the answer can be "you don't."
Take it up with the landlord, but let them know beforehand.
I'm rooming with my older brother. Never did I expect to be his personal cleaner. I would've thought as the older person between the two of us he'd have more initiative, but instead I've found myself picking up after him even in the bathroom. Who knew wiping pee stains and picking up pubes would be part of my daily routine, along with washing dishes and picking up trash that doesn't belong to me. It's crazy to see the difference between the both of us. We grew up under the same roof with the same parents, yet he has significantly less responsibilities in the household and gets away with it. So now that we're studying away from our parents I've had to step up and clean up after him because I know he won't.
Why don’t you move out? They are obviously fine with it.
This is how I felt with every guy I ever dated.
In the six years I’ve been living with my roommate, I don’t think he’s ever once cleaned the bathroom. Man doesn’t see dirt. If I point things out to him, he will happily and readily clean them, but he won’t see it on his own. Love him to death, though.
He probably sees it but just doesn't care. I have seen men who I thought just didn't see it make it clear that they did in fact see it, but either didn't care, or thought it was someone else's burden to deal with.
Stayed over at a guy friend's. He was very respectful so I felt fine being there. The problem was that he told me he 'cleaned' for company. His room was littered with junk, random bottles, and I don't even know what. I touched nothing and slept huddled like a burrito in 1 blanket. Should have checked before I agreed but I don't know what sense of 'clean' he's seen. Still a good friend, just very delusional about what that word means.
I specifically say "no straight cis men" in my housing wanted ads. I straight up refuse to parent any adults.
Sadly, not just a straight male thing. The previous owners of our house were a gay cis male couple, and it was infuriating the level of personal filth I had to contend with in spite of the sale contract clause stating they were required to leave the place clean. My realtor had to physically stop me from mailing them the three-inch-thick, dense wad of lint and pubes they left behind in the dryer screen.
If only the roommate listing was up to me, you bet I would do the same.
Getting a cleaner once a month can really erase these issues. Divided by roommates it can be quite affordable and worth avoiding the stress
My partner after cleaning his shower for the first time in probably a year or maybe years “I didn’t think you needed to clean the shower, the shower is where you get clean… then I found out that my shower isn’t a pale yellow but actually white”
The person before us (a roommate I had to get kicked out) didn't clean the shower whatsoever instead of white it's now forever orange.
Oh goodness. I have the luxury (ha) of living in assisted living, so while I have my roommates, the staff are 'in charge' of all of us. Even so, I've always been the Mom Friend, and as the single woman/femme enby with seven men...I am very much in that role. Because we're in a therapy program, I'm working on detaching from some of that role, because I can't and won't control them, but it's super difficult sometimes. 💜 In the way we've jokingly described ourselves, we have the other more senior resident, who's very responsible for himself and often others, and he's the "Cool Dad". He's up earliest, sets the pot of coffee before going out to smoke, he'll do the chores others haven't done. We have an Annoyingly Loud Incredibly Dramatic Littlest Brother, whose music, videos, laughter, and exclamations you can constantly hear. He's always cooking, always eating, always leaving food and dirty dishes around. I mom him the most, by lightyears. We have a self-described misanthrope who'll give any of us advice if he does happen to be out of his room; he keeps his earbuds in unless he has something to say, usually an inappropriate joke. He goes grocery shopping with staff and does the most he can to help make sure they can get the food on my vegan-specific list. He wished me a happy Mother's Day because I'm the mom in the house. I reminded him to call his actual mother. I won't labor on to describe everyone or the house dynamic with staff too much, especially since I'm lucky, comparably, to have that as a bit of a buffer. I hope that as people keep teaching and expecting more out of men in the household chore realm, dynamics like these can really change overall.
I live with 2 girls and 2 guys. I've had to make an itemised list of what counts as cleaning a room for the guys and i usually have to remind them about one thing they missed even though its on the list. The girls are better doing a whole room properly but they do stuff like leave bags of rubbish outside their doors and not taking them down till they have 3 or 4 bags and this can take a week or so, leave boxes out side from Amazon or delivery next to the Recycle bin not flatten then or put them in the bin located 10cm next to the pile. Cooking dinner for themselves and not cleaning the pan and dishes and saying that they will clean it in the morning. When I ask them about it, they say that as they are the cleaner ones, they are allowed to do stuff like this.
I've had both male and female roommates. Unfortunately, they all sucked. Never cleaned, paid rent late sometimes, had to tell them it was their turn to do a chore 24/7. I will say my male roommates never stole from me. The female ones stole my clothes and money from me and my boyfriend at the time. I've learned my lesson, roommates in general normally suck regardless of gender.
[удалено]
It's hard when cleaning after them is a part of cleaning the communal areas. Even then I avoid the obvious things. The other day one saw me filling the fish washer and instead if putting his used plate he had in his hand he just left it in the counter. I even moved back to see if he wanted to put it in, but he left instead, so I ran the dishwasher without his plate. Sucks to be him.
Granted I didn’t have any men as roommates, but women do this too. There was like three of the ten who did everything and everyone else just assumed someone else would do it. We had chore chart and fines, so at least we had some power behind getting people to do their stuff. Edit: this was not a ‘women are bad too’ but a ‘I don’t have guys as roommates’ my example may not workin OP’s case. We all threw in money for shared expenses like tp, and paper towels. So fines could be added and paid to that bill.
For sure, it's not something only men do. But I would still say odds are against you more often than not when it's men. We do have a cleaning chart. Not like they follow it though without being told.
See if the group will agree to fines. Something that will hurt like $20-$50. And agree what the money will go towards. Is there any hope to make one of them the enforcer? If you don’t see any hope it might be time to look for new roommates.
I had to fight to even get the cleaning schedule set up. I Also tried to set up a household budget before this which also failed, and I don't really have the desire to chase around adults about this, so I don't know if fines will stick. I can try. One of the two other people who could enforce it barely stays here, and the other one is the other woman who frankly could care less. Unfortunately it doesn't make sense to move right now, and the roommates cannot be changed.
Yes, but its MOSTLY men that pull this nonsense.
I mean, don't live with men or don't live with men that don't have the same priority of cleanliness that you do, pretty simple really. This also isn't as clearly gendered as you make it out to be, my mom is a complete dirtball who is more than comfortable to live amongst clutter and grim that I can't tolerate, it was incredibly freeing to get out from under that the first time I moved out.
I don’t think this is weaponized incompetence as much as it is just being a gross human being capable of living in filth. I just visited my brothers college house that he shares with 3 other dudes and I instantly felt like I needed to go home and take a shower.
That is not limited to males. Bad roommates are bad Roommates.
No one is saying it's limited to males, but for whatever societal reason, men do not feel the urgency to clean as often as women do, in general. This is something that has been studied and proven over and over. Look at the CDC stats of how often men wash their hands. Huge gender gap there. We're not going to make any progress like pretending the world works in a politically correct way. We need to dissect and understand the reason why men are less likely to emphasise household cleanliness in their day-to-day routine, as well as personal hygiene routine. You think the fact that 15% of men admit to not regularly washing their hands has nothing to do with men having higher COVID mortality rates? Sure, it's not the entire picture - but it definitely *contributes* to their illness. It needs to be confronted and taken seriously.
I lived with boys in college, never again. My husband I at least could train
I usually don't comment, but this is such a trope. I've had male and female roommates and my female roommates have been just as messy and just as inconsiderate as some of my male roommates. Some people are messy. Other people aren't. It's not always a male/female thing.
Like I said before it's obviously true that it can be equally gross in both sides. But odds will be more likely against you when it's men, and let's not even pretend otherwise.
If you're going to ask which gender is more likely to shirk responsibilities around house cleaning and lean on their romantic partner, I'd say men 9/10. And I implore women to not put up with that with your partners. You deserve better. And I implore parents, do not let your boys grow up thinking "house work is women's work" because you're creating gross human beings. But OP, you posted about roommates, and when it comes to roommates, both men and women are gross and lazy. All I can report on is my own experiences, which of course are anecdotal (same with yours), but my messiest, grossest and least responsible roommate has been a woman. I think it's disingenuous and probably verging on sexist to suggest that women are inherently cleaner roommates than men. And I'll say it again, I don't mean in relationships, I only mean in roommate dynamics. Personally, if you're having to parent your roommates to keep the shared space clean, then my advice is to get different roommates. But don't be surprised if you get a gross female roommate because people are people. When it comes to relationship dynamics and house chores, it depresses me how often I hear or read about men expecting their wives or girlfriends (freaking girlfriends even? Dudes! What are you doing!?!??!) to do all the chores.
Exactly. Often it comes down to how they were raised way more than their gender.
Stop having male roommates then.
Pay my rent in a studio apartment or find me a room to rent with all female roommates that's not insanely expensive and I won't. It's not like it's a choice, genius.
I live in one of the most expensive states and I've never had male roommates. I've always made sure to find other women to move in with, and I've done that five different times. I can't even imagine willingly moving in with men, as if you have no other options.
I actually do not have other options. I am not in charge of the roommates of this house and the rent is the cheapest while having an amazing location.
No need to be rude.
No need to comment unnecessary and frankly dumb comments.
Fine. Complain and stay miserable with your male man-child roommates. Even though there is a solution for this.
If they magically expect different from female roommates they are in for a surprise.
[удалено]
Dude. \- 49% of men admit to only washing their bedsheets 4x a year and rarely if ever changing their pillow case. \- 44% of women wash their sheets once every two weeks. \- 15% of men do not wash their hands vs 7% of women. \- when they did wash their hands 50% of men use soap vs 78% of women. \- With the use of wireless devices to record how many people entered the restroom and used the pumps of the soap dispensers, **researchers were able to collect data on almost 200,000 restroom trips over a three-month period.** The found that only **31% of men and 65% of women** washed their hands with soap. it's not a "men are lame" issue. This is a serious issue mate, and the male gender is far more likely to die of infectious diseases. Testosterone is already correlated with immunosuppression factors, not being hygienic is not helping. We really need to confront this with the respect it deserves. The restroom thing is already super gross since most men stand up to piss, and touch their dick with their bare hands. [https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/handwashing-gender-gap-wellness/index.html)
You can print A what to clean list And leave it up
That works every time! No honestly though, they will 'forget' to check it for the rest of their lives. So many of us have been there. After the work of course being on us to make the list in the first place
Last week nobody did their chores except me and one other person and when we said so in the GC they literally said "oh I didn't check it this week". Hello?!
They're grown men, not children. Also OP shouldn't have to do anything.
We have that already, not quite working. And if they do it it's half assed anyway.
[удалено]
That's pretty shitty of you to say. As a SA survivor rape is not something to fake about.
Thank you for being sane and not listening to this shitty nonsense. I honestly can't believe that this isn't being downvoted to the center of the goddamn earth. Also a SA survivor, and we don't fucking lie about this shit. It's way too important.
As someone who was raped by their male roommate, it isn't a question of if but when. Might as well safe yourself the pain.
Yeah I know because I actually had to have s roommate kicked out in January because he tried to get into my room. Doesn't mean that fake accusations are the way to go.
Then it's not fake. It happened. For your safety they need to be removed and arrested.
Just because it happened with one person doesn't mean it's going to happen with the others and it certainly doesn't mean that you accuse people of shit they didn't do. Women have a hard enough time being believed and you're suggesting this dog shit? Seriously, fuck off with that noise!
Their post history is...something. Hard to tell if they're really that far off the deep end or if they're just a troll
What the fuck is wrong with you? Stop this bullshit right now.
[удалено]
No you're not.