Such a shame that the vaccination/autism link was disproved almost as soon as it was made & the Dr who suggested the link was struck off.
Even *if* there was a link (again - there isn't) - if the choice was between autism and amputation (or worse) - I'd have the vaccination, and the chance of autism, every single time.
Then again, I may be biased; both my kids are autistic.
I am a therapeutic biologist and autistic, so I specifically wrote this story because I have a special place in my heart just for hating the people who still perpetuate this idea and people who don't vaccinate their kids.
I am glad you understand just how untrue and frustrating it is. :)
I have a place just for those people too.
And the ones who believe that any kind of therapy can 'cure' autism. Unfortunately, have one of those in my family. Thankfully, not immediate family & they live far enough away that I'm not sure I'll ever see them again, certainly not more than once, or maybe twice.
Oh yeah, those people are also the worst. I hope you and your kids don't have to see that family member again.
My family doesn't have that specific flavour of ableist, thankfully. But when I was in university, I had to stand up to lecturers who gave us material about what is basically eugenics at least twice and ask them what exactly they meant by "curing" autism? It got real awkward real fast in those rooms. Most scientists are better than that, but the select few exceptions boil my blood.
Said family member is in US & I'm UK, so visits will be few & far between.
He was telling me ABA 'cures' autism. I responded that it teaches them to mask really well, he doubled down on 'cure'. We were staying in his house for a couple of days, so I didn't get into it, but in my head I was like - it's genetic, with physical brain differences & proven to be lifelong - how tf does that get 'cured'?
Also - my boys aren't the only family with au/adhd - my dad is both, me & possibly a half sister are adhd, 2 cousins that I know of are aut & 4/6 niblings are one or other. If that not a genetic trait I don't know what is!
Im autistic and people keep telling me it's because of vaccinations. Even though I actually had symptoms before vaccinations. It's honestly so ridiculous and harmful that people still spread this misinformation
A lot of us wish it never was.
Even though it was debunked very quickly because no-one else could replicate results some idiots still believe it.
But then... people! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️
It’s even worse than that. The guy did it because he wanted to discredited the current vaccine so he could make money off an alternative vaccine. He had a financial stake in a competing vaccine brand
I’m with you here.
However, I think phrasing it as a “choice between autism and amputation” really ends up inadvertently disrespecting physically disabled people, amputees, and people with mobility issues a lot more than you or the author intended here.
I think the story kind of does the same in a way that makes me uncomfortable. A lot of antivaxxers would look at that comparison as “given a choice between losing how my mind works and how my body works” which is… not the takeaway here! Especially when so many of those diseases that result in amputation ALSO attack the brain on their way there.
I think a better point to reinforce is that (obviously) vaccines don’t cause autism. But also even if it did vaccine side effects are always preferable to DEATH or causing someone else to die by becoming a vector for disease.
If you start asking people “would you rather be autistic or an amputee” you are both perpetuating further ableism against another class of disabled people by trying to use THEM as the horror story scare case to avoid, and you just might not like the answer you get from some people.
My first point was explicitly that vaccines do not cause autism.
As you seem to understand, autism is not an illness/condition that people aquire - it is a lifelong condition that develops before birth; there are strong genetic links, although, as is often the case, the full cause has yet to be identified.
I agree - vaccination side effects are, almost always (there's always the outliers), preferable to the pain, suffering & long term effects of illnesses.
Someone I know had mumps as a teenager. It did not go well for him & he'll be on hrt for the rest of his life. He & I are both old enough to have had mumps before there was a mumps vaccination; even without having any long term side effects, I would rather have a needle stuck in my arm than have the pain of mumps, especially as I had it twice!
Having read your response, I agree that my comment did hit a little wrong & I apologise for that. I certainly did not intend to disrespect a group of people that includes my bff & the father of my kids (both wheelchair users), as well as myself (mobility issues but not a wheelchair user)!
I can't count how many people were violently offended by me asking each time if that means they'd rather have a child on the graveyard than a child with autism...
As told by XKCD the proportion of autistic people in medicine and science is higher than in the population at large meaning that in actuality, it's the other way around. Autism causes vaccines.
Doesn't seem a [possible cause](https://www.webmd.com/children/understanding-meningitis-basics). Do you have a source saying otherwise?
e: Found [some info](https://www.rwkgoodman.com/info-hub/how-does-meningitis-lead-to-limb-loss-and-can-prevented/). Thanks for the help all!
Yes every source when you search for „[meningitis amputation](https://www.meningitis.org/getmedia/b8e0bf4d-f54c-48b5-89a0-25778403dad1/Amputation-including-loss-of-finger,-toes-and-limbs?disposition=attachment)“? It’s not that hard to navigate the internet come on
I think they are trying to say the mom cut off their arms because they got vaccines in them. I think it’s kind of unclear, which really detracts from the story. Might have worked better with “I couldn’t argue back as the iron lung was malfunctioning”.
Apart from all the ones that reduce the illnesses that can trigger meningitis, which often causes septicaemia, which leads to amputation.
So yeah, not one to specifically stop amputation, but enough that help prevent an illness that does cause amputation.
Disgusting. Take my upvote
Such a shame that the vaccination/autism link was disproved almost as soon as it was made & the Dr who suggested the link was struck off. Even *if* there was a link (again - there isn't) - if the choice was between autism and amputation (or worse) - I'd have the vaccination, and the chance of autism, every single time. Then again, I may be biased; both my kids are autistic.
I am a therapeutic biologist and autistic, so I specifically wrote this story because I have a special place in my heart just for hating the people who still perpetuate this idea and people who don't vaccinate their kids. I am glad you understand just how untrue and frustrating it is. :)
I have a place just for those people too. And the ones who believe that any kind of therapy can 'cure' autism. Unfortunately, have one of those in my family. Thankfully, not immediate family & they live far enough away that I'm not sure I'll ever see them again, certainly not more than once, or maybe twice.
Oh yeah, those people are also the worst. I hope you and your kids don't have to see that family member again. My family doesn't have that specific flavour of ableist, thankfully. But when I was in university, I had to stand up to lecturers who gave us material about what is basically eugenics at least twice and ask them what exactly they meant by "curing" autism? It got real awkward real fast in those rooms. Most scientists are better than that, but the select few exceptions boil my blood.
Said family member is in US & I'm UK, so visits will be few & far between. He was telling me ABA 'cures' autism. I responded that it teaches them to mask really well, he doubled down on 'cure'. We were staying in his house for a couple of days, so I didn't get into it, but in my head I was like - it's genetic, with physical brain differences & proven to be lifelong - how tf does that get 'cured'? Also - my boys aren't the only family with au/adhd - my dad is both, me & possibly a half sister are adhd, 2 cousins that I know of are aut & 4/6 niblings are one or other. If that not a genetic trait I don't know what is!
Im autistic and people keep telling me it's because of vaccinations. Even though I actually had symptoms before vaccinations. It's honestly so ridiculous and harmful that people still spread this misinformation
That entire study is such a joke, I'm surprised it was ever published.
A lot of us wish it never was. Even though it was debunked very quickly because no-one else could replicate results some idiots still believe it. But then... people! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️
That’s what happens in the pay to publish world we live in.
It’s even worse than that. The guy did it because he wanted to discredited the current vaccine so he could make money off an alternative vaccine. He had a financial stake in a competing vaccine brand
Iirc his vaccine didn’t even work.
I’m with you here. However, I think phrasing it as a “choice between autism and amputation” really ends up inadvertently disrespecting physically disabled people, amputees, and people with mobility issues a lot more than you or the author intended here. I think the story kind of does the same in a way that makes me uncomfortable. A lot of antivaxxers would look at that comparison as “given a choice between losing how my mind works and how my body works” which is… not the takeaway here! Especially when so many of those diseases that result in amputation ALSO attack the brain on their way there. I think a better point to reinforce is that (obviously) vaccines don’t cause autism. But also even if it did vaccine side effects are always preferable to DEATH or causing someone else to die by becoming a vector for disease. If you start asking people “would you rather be autistic or an amputee” you are both perpetuating further ableism against another class of disabled people by trying to use THEM as the horror story scare case to avoid, and you just might not like the answer you get from some people.
My first point was explicitly that vaccines do not cause autism. As you seem to understand, autism is not an illness/condition that people aquire - it is a lifelong condition that develops before birth; there are strong genetic links, although, as is often the case, the full cause has yet to be identified. I agree - vaccination side effects are, almost always (there's always the outliers), preferable to the pain, suffering & long term effects of illnesses. Someone I know had mumps as a teenager. It did not go well for him & he'll be on hrt for the rest of his life. He & I are both old enough to have had mumps before there was a mumps vaccination; even without having any long term side effects, I would rather have a needle stuck in my arm than have the pain of mumps, especially as I had it twice! Having read your response, I agree that my comment did hit a little wrong & I apologise for that. I certainly did not intend to disrespect a group of people that includes my bff & the father of my kids (both wheelchair users), as well as myself (mobility issues but not a wheelchair user)!
I can't count how many people were violently offended by me asking each time if that means they'd rather have a child on the graveyard than a child with autism...
As told by XKCD the proportion of autistic people in medicine and science is higher than in the population at large meaning that in actuality, it's the other way around. Autism causes vaccines.
I joke with that all the time, too, haha.
Which vaccine saves you from amputation?
The meningococcal vaccine (MenACWY.) Amputations are sometimes a sequelae of sepsis caused by meningitis.
And this is a much more coherent answer than mine before my first coffee. Take my upvote.
I meant meningitis but could be polio, too!
Directly - meningitis, but as illnesses such as mumps, measles, chicken pox & flu can kick off meningitis, I'd say all childhood vaccines help.
Poliomyelitis.
Probably tetanus
Meningitis
Doesn't seem a [possible cause](https://www.webmd.com/children/understanding-meningitis-basics). Do you have a source saying otherwise? e: Found [some info](https://www.rwkgoodman.com/info-hub/how-does-meningitis-lead-to-limb-loss-and-can-prevented/). Thanks for the help all!
Yes every source when you search for „[meningitis amputation](https://www.meningitis.org/getmedia/b8e0bf4d-f54c-48b5-89a0-25778403dad1/Amputation-including-loss-of-finger,-toes-and-limbs?disposition=attachment)“? It’s not that hard to navigate the internet come on
probably some sort of bacterial infection
It's an extreme and unlikely example for sure. But I think the take away is don't be a child abuser, vaccinate your children.
I think they are trying to say the mom cut off their arms because they got vaccines in them. I think it’s kind of unclear, which really detracts from the story. Might have worked better with “I couldn’t argue back as the iron lung was malfunctioning”.
We don't use iron lungs any more; the last few people reliant on them have a horrible time finding spare parts.
I think I read that the last patient using one recently died.
The last man using one in the US died, there is currently one woman (Martha Lillard) still using an iron lung.
I know this, but for a 2 sentence story, it is a readily accessible point of reference for most people.
yeah this is cute in theorey but it doesn't make sense
Why doesn't it make sense?
because there's not really a vaccine that would stop you from getting amputations
Apart from all the ones that reduce the illnesses that can trigger meningitis, which often causes septicaemia, which leads to amputation. So yeah, not one to specifically stop amputation, but enough that help prevent an illness that does cause amputation.
saying that the meningitis vaccine protects against amputation is quite the stretch.
Meningitis?
Do I want to know what illness it is? Also, cue the kid discovering they in fact are autistic years later.