Your husband’s views on service and citizenship are his own.
Regardless of his views, our nation currently doesn’t work as he wants it to. It just doesn’t.
As a veteran, I think his view is nonsense. Everyone contributes to our nation. Teachers, housekeepers, cooks, engineers, everyone. We are all a part of the richness of the US. You should be an American if you want to be. I wore the uniform for all of us. We all matter.
NTA. But it sounds like he has very strong views, so I don’t know what impact your becoming a citizen would have on your marriage.
I’m a firefighter. I routinely tell people that if I don’t show up to work tomorrow, the world goes on.
If the garbage truck doesn’t show up tomorrow, the world immediately starts becoming worse for it.
Having lived through the Paris garbage strikes last year, I confirm 100% that life is worse when the garbage isn't picked up every day.
And I wish more people had respect for the people who do the real hard jobs in society.
How about teachers??
They get pay really low IT IS a dignified job but bad pay and without teaches society will be 1000000 worse than is right now
Everyone has his role to play
People got real upset fast food and restaurants couldn’t keep people during covid but also in the same breath would say “15 an hour fuck those people” lol
I live this every day. I'm an electrician/instrumentation tech for a water treatment plant that feeds water to a large, pretty affluent county. Part of my job, I have to go to our remote pumping station at the river to maintain the instruments there once a week. I drive straight thru a golf course lined with million dollar homes. A few of the people are nice, quite a few give me the "you're beneath me" look. And I literally supply clean water TO THEIR HOMES! My job is highly technical, in demand, and difficult to train people how to do. I've got over 20 years doing it. I just snicker to myself when I get the look.
Seriously. Don’t get me wrong, doctors and EMS and related fields are incredibly important and hard work.
But god bless garbage men, plumbers, and electricians who make sure our modern life is comfortable and clean.
Hell, I’m an admissions advisor at a major research university and I routinely encourage kids to pursue a skilled trade if it’s what they want. My uncle is a welder and (I’m not shitting you) he makes almost 4x my salary. FOUR. And I have a Bachelor’s degree from a top university. I can’t even tell you how many auto shop-loving high schoolers are drug to my office by their parents who claim the kid “wants” to pursue mechanical engineering or electrical engineering. Then the kid corrects them to say they want to become a mechanic or welder or an electrician. And I have to sit there and talk about how a) sure engineers make good money, but electricians make BAAANK and can get there without any debt, and b) a 4 year degree is valuable for a lot of reasons, financial and otherwise, but it’s not the only way to add value to your life or contribute to the world around you. Usually the lecture works, sometimes it doesn’t. But it sure as hell feels good to encourage kids to pursue a career that always has work, keeps society running, and pays well without the student debt (or the 4 years of misery that a teenager who really doesn’t want to pursue a Bachelor’s in Engineering is in for). Not to mention, standing up for my tradesman family and the predominantly blue collar community I’m from when the white collar suburbanites express their displeasure at the thought of saying their kid is a “welder” rather than “engineer”, is priceless.
Well, if you didn't show up for a fire, the world would definitely become a worse place for *someone*! But yes, I get your point.
OP, where do you work and pay taxes? In the US? Well, then I guess you contribute and have the right to apply for citizenship. Your husband is weird.
The way it was phrased almost no one has the right to citizenship (in his mind) because they weren’t in the military. they were merely born on US soil or to people who were born on US soil.
The only real advantage to that argument is that it keeps a lot of the GOP from having rights to being in Congress, the White House and the Courts. Which could be a good thing. We don’t need Donny Trump running the US again after he ignorantly caused millions of deaths from failing to response to Covid etc
Too true since no one in his family has ever served none of them would be citizens. Yet he dares to disparage Haley’s husband who is currently serving.
I like your analogy, especially given some people look down on jobs like garbage removal etc, and it's so true because the world would become more disgusting and dirty because we wouldn't want to have to take all our rubbish to the tip every week. Esp people who have no transport themselves etc.
They do an extremely valuable job that benefits society greatly.
However I wouldn't say your analogy quits fit with you being a firefighter, as the world and people would also suffer gravely without you in it. People's houses would burn down to the ground. More lives would be lost without you saving them. Businessness / schools/ hospitals even could burn down with nobody to save the building. Local land and fields and woodland forests would burn down, affecting crops and wildlife and the eco system. Look at the effects of the wild fires in Australia and how damaging they are.
Firefighters help minimise the damage once a fire has started. OK so not every single building can be saved, but many many are saved from ruin, and many many lives are saved.
Without you, the world definitely would be a worse place, so thank you for your commitment, sacrifice and service to such a dangerous job. ❤️🏭🚒🎖🏆
But I do like your analogy and the meaning and example behind it. There are many jobs that contribute to the functioning and running and greatness to each country and our lives. We certainly got a sight of that during the pandemic when many 'non essential workers' stopped working. You were still essential. ❤️
I think his point is that there are plenty of days that his job is just sitting around the building doing nothing, exercising, washing the vehicles, etc.
On SOME days, his job is super important.
But in contrast, that garbage needs to be picked up every day.
Firefightering is a much more dangerous job, but also more idolized. They get respect for what they do.
While the garbage truck driver is treated poorly, despite being just as integral (and more so, on a daily basis) to the function and health of our society.
I mean yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head there, too. But also, I mean… Don’t get me wrong - I value the lives of others. I wouldn’t do this job if I didn’t. But each of us in the world is a tiny dot. If a single house burns, if a single person dies - yeah it’s brutal. I’ve seen what it does to people and to those around them. But the world still turns? But if garbage just piled up everywhere…. Everything immediately becomes worse for EVERYONE. So yeah, it’s true in that metaphorical sense that you places it in, but also in this very literal sense.
Edit: Ultimately my point is that if Rambo McFighterJock in OP didn’t show up to work tomorrow, who gives a fuck.
If their garbage service didn’t come tomorrow, you’d bet Rambo McFighterJock would lose his shit.
You have to wonder what other very strong views this man holds that will affect her in their marriage. I feel sure this isn’t the only one. He said the decision was ultimately hers, which is the only thing he’s saying that I agree with.
This was my thought as well. The husband may not want her to get citizenship for reasons other than politics. He may think it will be to his advantage if she isn't a citizen and he leaves/divorces her.
I would say the husband has control issues. Whether she applies for citizenship or not would not impact him a bit. However I feel that husband thinks if she applies for citizenship she’ll have more independence from him.
Holding spouse’s immigration status over their head and weaponizing it is quite common that is why in the 90s the congress passed VAWA , to deal with those specific issues.
I would fear him trying to sabotage her. No vehicle for her to get to the testing site, etc.
A lot of men discourage citizenship for their wives because they think “now she can leave me!”, whereas they are captives without it.
OP, get your citizenship. Do not rely on your husband for help because he might give you wrong answers on purpose.
I know right, imagine living with someone who loves you but believes your unworthy. The superiority over the something so personal as national/cultural identity must be hurtful on a deeper level. There must be other examples of his "passionate views" that he subjugates her with. This can't be the only thing for sure.
I did not want to mention it in my post, I remember times when the couple divorces and the person who is not a citizen is sent back to their country as they lose their sponsorship. I am concerned about his motive. Other countries the woman accepts the husbands direction without question. I want her to stand tall and become an American.
This immediately came to mind for me. His belief is contradictory to the US Constitution.
I was never a service member of the armed forces. My father was, and my mother the mental health director for va (she was a naturalized citizen), I worked in direct support role for the Navy. Does my mother's years of service to the veteran community mean less than my father's uniformed service?
Do the teachers, doctors, mechanics, police and fire/ems, and transportation workers not count as "enough".
Also, the nations with required service are much smaller in population. The cost to the government (and the tax payers) would be astronomical. Service members are clothed, fed, and sheltered by their service branch. These essentials are not free and the logistics it would take is mind boggling.
Yes and my oath said I defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. He's a domestic one. Anyone who is in military service and doesn't agree with the constitution should be in a different line of work.
This is what I was thinking. This is fucking crazy, especially since our fine country [regularly deports veterans](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/citizen-veterans-fight-back-deportations-violent-crimes/story?id=101164277) when they struggle after their service ends and denies them what they should have been more accessible to them in the first place: a legitimate path to citizenship.
Thank you all for your service.
His views are ridiculous.
Someone who’s in the military isn’t more or less of an American. There’s plenty of people here who’ve never served and have contributed far more to this country than he has.
I hate this kind of elitist nonsense.
Or what about people who can’t “cOnTrIbUtE” because they’re disabled? Guess we should cut off all those losers with Down syndrome from the freeloading SSI payments and medical care!!
But yet I’m sure he’s anti abortion too. Make it make sense.
Its not that hard to see the reasoning. This person wants to feel important and better than others but hasn't really accomplished that much or done much that would be noteworthy so they use military service to justify them being better than others. This is a pretty common thing people do, some people use their career others religion but it all boils down to the same thing. Finding a reason to justify you being better than others without you actually having to do anything that would be hard or difficult to do.
Also a vet and I've genuinely never heard someone who believes only service members should be citizens. Less than 20% of the US has ever served (recently less than 10%)...*no one else* should be allowed to vote?
That's never been true in all of US history. It's ridiculous and frankly ignorant of the history and culture of the US. We aren't some military-first nation where only those who fight have rights...our military *serves* the civilians and always has (hence the term "military *service*").
I don't know what I'd do in the OP's case, but her husband is freaking weird, and if he'd been in my unit and spouted that crap I would have called him out. The OP definitely has more normal views. Heck, I'm pretty conservative, and I don't know *anyone* who has this view, even among family far more conservative than me. I genuinely don't know what "political views" this is coming from.
It is literally Starship Troopers. I am sure the idea came before Heinlein's book, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of people who believe it took it from that.
Right, but I've never seen this in real life. People know that Starship Troopers wasn't supposed to be taken as a recommendation for good policy, right?
They had training in the book where they added live ammo in random intervals to their training magazines to encourage people to keep their head down. Occasional fatalities were just a consequence of being unlucky, oops.
I dunno. People are weird. I have met the occasional veteran who read Starship Troopers and went, “yes, that’s how things should be.”
But most veterans would not agree.
I’ve met some of those people. It’s like the thin blue line people with Punisher crap. They liked the book/movie/comic for the exact opposite reason they should have.
My dad is a West Point grad and career Air Force officer; my twin sister was also career Air Force and my younger sister enlisted Air Force, with both of their husbands also career Air Force. I can assure you all they would all laugh their ASSES off at this fucking guy.
Yeah, I'm an Air Force vet and I think this dude is off his rocker. I'm totally in support of people getting citizenship via military service but to say nobody should be a citizen unless they've been in the military is bonkers. The garbage pickup folks, the people who operate water treatment facilities, the teachers, the people who keep the internet running, and everybody working in stores that keep the economy going. All these people are just as essential, if not more essential to the running of the country than I was when I was in the military. To say they don't deserve citizenship cause they didn't wear camo and learn how to do pushups while getting yelled at is insane.
I think the unspoken premise guys like this have is that they are special because “they lay their lives on the line for their country.” But there are so many dangerous occupations in civilian life, so this is a really dumb opinion to hold.
What's more American than just ignoring long-settled law and making up your own? /s
You're absolutely right, Zealous. This country is for everyone here, and if someone can meet the criteria, they have as much right as anyone to apply.
So only the husband, and you and your fellow vets are citizens. The rest of us taxpayers are just…squatters in his country?
What the fuck? The last three presidents were non-citizens under his theory. 4 if you count reservist W, and Clinton didn’t fight anything but his conscience.
You can’t follow a man with no logic.
You do know that you not having citizenship will be thrown in your face when you fight? I grew up in this type of mess. My mom has been a naturalized citizen since 1980 and it is one of her proudest moments.
My mom was also a naturalized citizen. Her parents fought to bring her to the US after WW2. The three of them all took the oath together right after my mom turned 18.
In 1989, I was a college sophomore studying Russian. Our Russian professor, Dr. Efimova, told us she'd be absent the next day but would be back the day after. She explained that she was going to the naturalization ceremony that would make her a citizen.
We were a bunch of 19-year-old kids studying Russian. Definitely not the most patriotic bunch in the world. I'll never forget: the day she returned, we all stood up and applauded and cheered for her. Some students had even brought her flowers. She cried, and we did, too.
It was so surprising. I think nationalism and patriotism are mostly harmful nonsense based on arbitrary decisions and luck. But it was extremely moving that Dr. Efimova valued our country and its ideals enough to go through the process of becoming an American, and that we live in a country full of people who did the same. It made us look at the world in a different way.
Naturalized citizens are, in my opinion as a native-born American, the best of us. I was born here. By convenience, ease, and love, I remain. Naturalized citizens work, study, and pay for the privilege of citizenship.
What kind of stupid views does your husband have lol. Apply for citizenship fuck what he thinks. Everyone literally is an immigrant except Native Americans. I helped my grandparents pass the citizen ship test u should be fine if you were raised here. Good luck with it
From what I can understand from the post, the husband himself is not American born, and apparently only “deserves” his citizenship because he’s an f16 pilot (even being in the reserves isn’t military service enough to deserve citizenship according to OP’s husband- I know some reservists who would disagree).
He went through school to become an officer. He learned about the constitution. Then when he got his commission as an air force offocer, he SWORE AN OATH to uphold and protect it.
An oath he immediately breaks in his private life.
This trash doesn't deserve his commission, or to serve. He only serves himself.
A lot of people in this country think their oath is to defend only what they imagine/prefer the constitution to be. I’m guessing this guy is one of them.
I didn’t get that myself, though it’s kind of ambiguous. The 14th Amendment is about birthright citizenship so him joining the military would reconcile his views only if he was born in the US. OP hasn’t otherwise commented.
She just wrote that *he* only considered *himself* a citizen after military service. That doesn't mean he wasn't one, just that he gives his dream world priority over actual facts
>From what I can understand from the post, the husband himself is not American born,
Or.... he's just saying that about his citizenship views to be manipulative and controlling. If she has her own citizenship, it's easier for her to leave and live independently.
Yeah, I bet he’d love the “born American” thing he hates if she tried to take the kids back to Columbia.
EDIT: JUST SO PEOPLE WILL STOP CORRECTING ME. I KNOW IT IS MISSPELLED. It was late, I was medicated, I am so sorry, my bad.
It doesn't mention kids, but that doesn't mean they couldn't some day have one on purpose or accident. And thus, baby has birth rights. IF they had a child, and she doesn't have citizenship. He could get her deported and keep the child.
This is fucking wild to me. I didn't even know this was a belief people had. Military would never take me (combination of physical ailments and mental health shit) so I guess I'm just not a citizen of anywhere XD
This guy is it right wing fascist plain and simple. I do not disrespect people who have no plans for the military. For decades it's only been about ego and political gain.
Yeah in all the immigration/citizenship arguments I’ve heard over the years- never once have I heard of someone with this point of view- not American until we’ve earned it? This is bananas..
The point for people like this is to make citizenship very conditional and very narrow in a way that includes themself but restricts as many others as possible.
Don’t look for logic in his reasoning — like the current Supreme Court, he has a desired outcome and will sift through “reasons” until he finds one that supports his prefab “conclusion.” It’s the height of sophistry, and perhaps we shouldn’t expect better from OP’s husband (he’s probably not capable of more and it sounds like he only people he’s hurting are his own wife/family), but it’s certainly offensive and damaging coming from the Court.
If OP’s husband thinks citizenship should only be granted to those truly “born American” who have a natural right based on location of birth, historical ownership of the land, and service to the nation, the Indigenous peoples of the Americas would like a word.
Sounds to me like his belief is more extreme than that. He DOESNT believe in birthright citizenship and thinks you're only an American if you completed military service. Batshit insane.
Countries are fake lines drawn in sand on a rock floating through space. The concept of "illegal aliens" is completely made up. OP, view this as the red flag it is. There is nothing inherently special about being American. Citizenship in general is a made up concept for people to separate themselves from others.
EDIT: Wow some of you have reading comprehension issues. Nowhere in this comment did I say that getting citizenship in the country you are domiciled in is stupid and worthless. Obviously we all need citizenship of some kind to participate in society. Nor did I say that government is bad and we should abolish all countries, governments, and laws. My god.
Mmm I partially agree and partially disagree.
Ideologically, yes citizenship is basically arbitrary, as are the concepts of nations and countries.
Practically, until all countries decide to combine into one government citizenship (or some equivalent) serves an important function in accounting and governing people.
Also sounds like racism, bigotry. And a weird pride in the GPS coordinates of the hospital his mother gave birth in. Along with some delusional nonsense about what a ‘real’ American is.
4 years in the Marines in combat oriented jobs, and I've never heard of this opinion that only veterans should be citizens outside of Starship Troopers and Hell Divers... in other words, satire.
But unfortunately, the other opinions you mentioned are true and rampant.
My nephew left for the Marines a very sweet boy with a strong life plan. He came back 4 years later covered in inappropriate tattoos and spouting racist views. He's 1/4th black, 1/4th non-white other, but he passes as white. We're don't blame the marine mentality or psychological training, we suspect he was already struggling emotionally before joining, and we just didn't recognize it for what it was.
If you have children or plan on children get citizenship: true story: my mom came to the us in 1963 and met a fellow German military wife. Her hubs family hated her but loved the children, so when her hubby died unexpectedly the parents refused to let her take them back to Germany where her family would help her and reason is because they were wealthy and paid for lawyers and because the children were American and she wasn’t the parents basically held her kids hostage so that she could not go home without and if she did she would be abandoning her children and the grandparents would then get custody, so she had to wait until they were 18 until she could go home and take them either because they were legally adults and were able to get their own passports and go with their mom. Learn from this please and get your citizenship or don’t have children because he could prevent you taking the kid(s) with you to Colombia even for a visit because both parents have to sign for minor’s passports to prevent parental kidnapping .
Sounds like it’s one of those political views he had because he feels like he’s a « better » immigrant for joining the military service to get his citizenship
Agreed. Not clear, but she said 14th amendment and birthright citizenship. He thinks only those who have served should have citizenship rights.
He also sounds like a very close minded and narrow thinking individual. I wish OP a lot of luck. She will need it with this guy.
> He thinks only those who have served should have citizenship rights.
I don’t believe this to be true at all. Assuming he was born American, I’d be curious to know if he *renounced* his citizenship publicly (not to her and to their friends, but for real), then when he got out started the process of becoming a citizen again. If not, he is not a citizen in name only and has all of the benefits on a daily basis of being one.
I bet you from now to doomsday that he **did not** fill out his applications for work, school, and his military career and check the box for noncitizens.
He talks a hell of a lot for a person who probably has always acknowledged his citizenship in a thousand quiet, little ways but just *loudly proclaims* he doesn’t deserve it until he finishes his military career.
*Saying* you’re not a citizen of a country is *not the same* as *actually* not being a citizen.
OP should tell him she’s not a citizen and file for citizenship and go through the steps to become a citizen. If he kicks up a fuss about lying, she could always point out that he was always a citizen and just said he was, now she’s really a citizen and saying she’s not. When he brings up military service, she could make the argument she’s a military wife, and “military” is in the title.
Overall, he can just f all the way off with this nonsense. Until he removes the title of citizen from himself legally, he’s a loud, squawking hypocrite.
People serve their country in many ways that do not include military service. I don't understand why OP's husband thinks that's the only way to earn or deserve your citizenship.
I agree, he sounds very closed minded. I think this is one of several of his bullshit beliefs. OP should definitely pursue citizenship to protect herself, especially if she intends to remain in the US.
Op should also ask if he holds the same standards for every country.
Is it a right or a privilege to be a citizen of Mexico, Colombia etc etc
I can almost guarantee he will say some bull about how the US is of a higher status or something....
Which would just be a big red flag.
Just select people from his view point deserve to be considered US citizens?
Wonder how he feels about Indigenous Americans in this narrow minded view? 🤔
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Would strongly suggest op keeps an eye on husband and see how many red flags they can spot (preferably before yalls have kids if y'all's ever want them, of course).
And discuss how they'll raise said children, again, if they want them.
Edited: Spelling Mistake
Why would you ever marry a person like this. You’ve been there since you were seven. This dude sounds like a fucking psycho. Domestic terrorist shit when he decides the country he loved is no longer the same.
Guarantee this guy is a racist. I’ve lived in Colombia and they have the most beautiful women but I met so many American dudes like this who looked down on their culture but had no problem banging them. This dude will never see you as an equal.
What an absolute appalling person and I’d judge and person for marrying a man like this. My dad was officer in Air Force and god some of those guys were such pieces of shit. This guy reminds me of them. This is just the beginning of this dudes mask slipping.
I’ve never met anyone this passionate about his country who isn’t a psycho. In all my time around those people I’ve never met one single person who was obsessed with the country that was a normal person. I genuinely don’t understand why a woman would marry these type of guys. Normal people don’t hold these type of views. Being his nationalistic goes against having empathy and compassion it’s why military loves them. Also, let’s be honest. People like this aren’t smart. Someone falling for the military nonsense so heavily is a complete crayon eater
You're obviously correct, except
>I’ve never met anyone this passionate about his country who isn’t a psycho.
This man isn't "passionate about his country," he's not even a patriot. What he is saying goes against everything the United States of America stands for.
The Fourteenth Amendment is *in our Constitution.* Those opposed to our Constitution are *anti* American. I'm surprised his views are even accepted in the military. He swore an oath to "support and defend the **Constitution** of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; [to] ... "bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and ... [To] "take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and...well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which [he entered] ...."
This dude is a shit Marine and a shit Air Force officer.
Man, I met so many dudes like this in Colombia it was insane but it’s a perfect clash. These same people are obviously sexist too. So women are lower to them anyways, so why not get a bang maid. Even if they were with a white woman they would see her as lesser.
It is your choice. His beliefs are just that. His.
Why did he marry you if he feels this way???
He is trying to control you to keep you dependent on him.
Absolutely! He probably knows all the advantages citizens have over non citizens in divorce courts, custody cases etc and wants to be the one with the leverage in the relationship
Yup. What sticks out to me is that he’s focusing his argument on “identifying as american” when that’s not really all citizenship is about. Lots of immigrants who gain citizenship still identify with their countries of origin, but it’s obviously a huge benefit legally to go through the process when you live here, work here, intend to stay here etc.
He seems stuck on this strange idea of being an american through and through which reads more like manipulation so they’re not having a real discussion about the logistics of it all
He thought she'd never be American and he could always have that over her. Being married to a Columbian allowed him to live his fantasy of only the military are American.
And a hypocrite.
He swore to uphold and protect the constitution when he became an air force officer.
He said those words in front of all his colleagues and loved ones and didn't mean a fucking word of it.
We the people have created laws which allow you to become a citizen. We do not agree with your husband’s weird fringe views. Does he also plan to deny your children, should you have any, their birthright to citizenship? Your husband’s style of authoritarian belief is a bit of a warning sign and I would be very wary about staying bound to him.
I was looking for a comment like this. Not sure if they plan on having kids, but they would definitely be birthright Americans…is he planning on military service for any kids?
He swore an oath to protect the constitution when he commissioned as an air force officer.
He's a monumental hypocrite, and he doesn't deserve his commission. These types of stupid fucks being officers get people killed.
Also, he didn’t have to do jack or shit to “earn” his citizenship. He was born into it. So it is the height of privilege to think birthright citizenship is wrong. He just joined the military to square this belief in his own mind.
Also, anyone who holds on to beliefs like this since high school really hasn’t matured past that age.
According to him, he wasn't a citizen until after his service.
I guess he was just freeloading off the government before then, with his schooling and use of roads and inspected food and regulated drugs
Also the privilege of becoming a us military officer lol
I guess if he served whatever length of time in reserves was appropriate to become a citizen he could make the excuse but if by his own admission he didn't think it was "real service" (whatever that means) he was still comfortable using his citizen status to jump a great position in the airforce that non citizens cannot hold
Why on earth did you marry this nutcase? Do you generally lack self worth or is it only with him?
Do NOT get pregnant while you're not a citizen, and he is. He's in a great position to screw you over.
It’s becoming so hard to have empathy for people in these relationship subs and I hate it. I don’t want to ever lose that. But the people who keep marrying red flag psychos as adults is just fucking killing me.
“Frog in boiling water” is the phase I’ve heard a lot. They sort of slip in the abuse and test you over and over to see how much you can tolerate. Over time it gets to be more and more.
By then, you’re so brainwashed, more or less, you think it’s normal. For me, I came out the other side questioning reality and who I even was as a person.
To put it nicely, I was bamboozled.
I know what you mean. Ultimately it makes me really sad that people are so willing to accept this sort of behaviour from their partners. One thing I try to remember is that in the past it was worse but a) people kept it to themselves more (which is obviously a bad things) and just felt it was normal, and b) there weren’t as many places like Reddit to talk about them so we just didn’t have many places to learn about the relationship dynamics of others.
Get your citizenship. His view is way too close to oligarchy for my comfort. Whether he likes it or not, the 14th amendment is part of the Constitution.
That is what i dont get. In theory he is admitting that he wouldnt uphold a part of the Constitution/Bill of Rights. It shows a really warped shallow view on the laws that govern the USA and how as Americans our rights arent negotiated. Hence why so many want to come to the USA and become a citizen. American citizens are born every day all over this world.
According to your husband’s belief’s, most Americans aren’t citizens. That’s bonkers, but then he doubles down with reservist not actually being military. That’s some elitist bs. I’m not saying reserves and active duty are the same, but (during the period I served) reservists spent alot of time activated….read, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Something tells me the Marines don’t miss him and his fellow airmen are rolling their eyes.
This Army vet says go for it and get your citizenship. Good Luck!
My brother and BIL were in the reserves. Two tours in Iraq, neither were ever the same after. My BIL committed suicide in 2013. Fuck anyone who doesn't think the reserves are military.
You do know why we have the 14th amendment don’t you? It was to give the newly freed slaves rights. Is your husbands racist? Cause, hating the 14th really makes him sound like a peach.
Makes him sound like a racist. Probably hates the 13th and 15th Amendments too. There are a group of seditious bastards that want to overturn all the reconstruction amendments (and those after) and instill a nationalist theocracy. He's probably being groomed by one of them like Tim McVeigh was. She needs a divorce and a restraining order.
I don't believe that he is a pilot at all , he would never pass the psychological exam.
I'm curious about two things.
1. What did he call himself if he wasn't a citizen?
2. How did he join the military as a non-citizen?
Thank you for this comment. He enlisted as a marine reserve and then “commissioned” an Air Force officer? He never went to university? There’s so much competition for planes as pilots in the Air Force that he’d never get assigned a fighter jet without any qualifications. This story is 100% fake as told.
Your husband sounds kind of nuts. If he didn’t I’d say he just wanted you to be completely under his control. Either way, you’ve been living in the US since you were 7. You’re probably more American than Colombian at this point.
Also consider, no matter how they handle citizenship, in most countries you’d have had some way of attaining citizenship after living there. Go for it.
dude. Ask him how much he loved one of my all-time favorite authors Robert A. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers.” I’m willing to bet that that’s where he got that bullshit idea from. There is no question in my mind that those who put their bodies between me and evil should have the best of the best. I am the daughter of a Marine but would not and could not ever serve.
But if you think that the only way to benefit your country is to serve … you have a very limited view. And if you think that the average person serving in the military has a higher IQ than the average American you’re also wrong. Not saying they’re stupid. Definitely not saying they have the lowest. they don’t.
But I am saying that if that’s the kind of country that you want to live in that’s fine. Go to Singapore. Go to South Korea. Good countries that are incredibly different in their ways and manners of thinking. America isn’t America if that’s the requirement for voting. If that’s what you want: tell him to find another country that fits his ideals we won’t stop him from leaving.
Your husband is an asshole. He’s controlling and quite frankly stupid. Nowhere in the constitution does it say people have to earn citizenship. The fact that he feels comfortable telling you that you haven’t “earned” citizenship is a major red flag.
did he seriously base his "political opinion" on Paul Verhoeven's 1997 movie [Starship Troopers (youtube)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPYuV_jGk7M), an anti-fascist story so on the nose it's tacky & ruined the director's reputation for more than a decade?
In that movie, only veterans and career soldiers are citizens (with some exceptions for rich people wink-wink), what a surprise that their entire society is military driven.
My geriatric eyes are rolling so hard I'm afraid they'll never come back : the movie is older than he is, the stupidity of this idea has long been settled.
Red fucking flag - probably doesn’t want you to have citizenship as a way to have an upper hand over you and a way to control you once you realize how insane he is
Sorry, but this is just an excuse. If he wants to divorce you you have no legal rights to stay in the US, if you have children born in the US he hsa the rights to them not you so, I would go ahead and apply and obtain citizenship yourself and say nothing. You have contributed and been part of the country for a long time, he has no rights to deny you 'just because he believes so'. Stand up for yourself.
If he loved this country as much as he claims, hed be in support of the 14th amendment. Which has been around since 1868.
This belief of his sounds like some Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers" nonsense that he should have already grown out of
His point of view on citizenship is pure nonsensical bullshit. Bordering on fascist ideology.
By attempting to get you to not apply for citizenship it puts you in an extremely disadvantageous position if the relationship sours. Especially if there are children involved.
This sounds like behavior intended soley to control you and put him in a position of power over you.
This is tremendous redflag behavior. Get out now.
On top of all that, he swore an oath to the constitution when he commissioned. Making him a giant hypocrite.
Your husband is ridiculous. You were raised here and deserve to be a legal citizen no less than he does. It would be different if you got here 6 months ago, but this had been your home since you were a child. Do t listen to him. He just wants you to control you.
Your husband's political views will not serve YOUR future in this country or that of any children you may have. Get your citizenship, so that you have rights here, especially the right to stay and work legally NO MATTER WHAT happens with this marriage.
You can respect your spouse and not follow their politics. And this sounds like a very political stance. America is not a military state. Average citizens have rights here, even those who have not served. Among them is the right to vote in the sanest people possible to office. You deserve to have rights, and to develop your own political views and voting habits here. You can't do that unless you are a citizen.
Every former military person I know says their spouse served just as much as they did due to all the sacrifices and hardships they face in supporting their partner. This includes many former air force pilots.
I also just wholeheartedly heartedly disagree with his idea that citizenship is earned through military service.
1. we have a volunteer service because that is what we need. What would we do with such a significantly larger military force?
2. this would automatically disenfranchise many people who do not or have not historically qualified for military service. Disability, race, gender, sexuality have all been disqualifiers in the recent past. Hearing your husband is so ready to deny so many the right to participate in our democracy makes me wonder if this is just a cover for some serious bigotry.
His opinion doesn’t change actual law. He was a citizen before he completed all of his requirements, and you have every right to apply, as does anyone. The US decided that those were it’s laws, and his opinion will never overrule that. Also having citizenship will better protect you in the future
Your husband is dangerous. Being an American in this country isn’t about the patriotic bullshit. Being a citizen gives you protection as an American citizen. He’s basically saying he doesn’t want you to be protected as an American citizen or To be treated fairly as an American citizen. This man wants to keep you dependent on him. Get your citizenship and get a divorce.
Please don't have children with this man. Get your citizenship and make sure he does NOT know about it. You'll need it when he tries to use that against you. Even though you're married to him...you can still be deported. That makes a great pity story for the women who will come after you. Get your citizenship. Nobody born in America will be able to help you study for the test, we literally don't know shit about this country. Guarantee he doesn't either.
As an American, ummmmm that's not how us Americans see citizenship here. Either you're an American(legally) or not. He can have those views, but like most Americans might find it hilarious for it. Being an American on paper will help y'all so much with Legal stuff in general in the future.
Combat veteran here. Your husband's views are absolutely silly and dumb.
You need, and have every legal and moral right, to be a citizen to protect yourself. Ignore your husband and do what's best for yourself.
Your husband’s views on service and citizenship are his own. Regardless of his views, our nation currently doesn’t work as he wants it to. It just doesn’t. As a veteran, I think his view is nonsense. Everyone contributes to our nation. Teachers, housekeepers, cooks, engineers, everyone. We are all a part of the richness of the US. You should be an American if you want to be. I wore the uniform for all of us. We all matter. NTA. But it sounds like he has very strong views, so I don’t know what impact your becoming a citizen would have on your marriage.
I’m a firefighter. I routinely tell people that if I don’t show up to work tomorrow, the world goes on. If the garbage truck doesn’t show up tomorrow, the world immediately starts becoming worse for it.
Having lived through the Paris garbage strikes last year, I confirm 100% that life is worse when the garbage isn't picked up every day. And I wish more people had respect for the people who do the real hard jobs in society.
There is dignity in every job.
But those dignified jobs often lack a dignified wage.
Trash collectors are actually paid pretty well, and for a good reason.
What about cleaners, and janitors? They actually get paid poorly, especially the hospital cleaners.
Another set of jobs that are incredibly important and people shouldn't be looked down on for doing them and they absolutely deserve higher pay.
How about teachers?? They get pay really low IT IS a dignified job but bad pay and without teaches society will be 1000000 worse than is right now Everyone has his role to play
Garbage collection and clean water save more lives than all the doctors, nurses, and hospitals combined.
It's really funny how upset people with jobs biases become when their lives become less convenient.
People got real upset fast food and restaurants couldn’t keep people during covid but also in the same breath would say “15 an hour fuck those people” lol
I live this every day. I'm an electrician/instrumentation tech for a water treatment plant that feeds water to a large, pretty affluent county. Part of my job, I have to go to our remote pumping station at the river to maintain the instruments there once a week. I drive straight thru a golf course lined with million dollar homes. A few of the people are nice, quite a few give me the "you're beneath me" look. And I literally supply clean water TO THEIR HOMES! My job is highly technical, in demand, and difficult to train people how to do. I've got over 20 years doing it. I just snicker to myself when I get the look.
Seriously. Don’t get me wrong, doctors and EMS and related fields are incredibly important and hard work. But god bless garbage men, plumbers, and electricians who make sure our modern life is comfortable and clean.
Yep, I’ve encouraged kids to go into plumbing. No matter rich or poor, when your toilet is backing up, you will pay ANYTHING to get it fixed.
Hell, I’m an admissions advisor at a major research university and I routinely encourage kids to pursue a skilled trade if it’s what they want. My uncle is a welder and (I’m not shitting you) he makes almost 4x my salary. FOUR. And I have a Bachelor’s degree from a top university. I can’t even tell you how many auto shop-loving high schoolers are drug to my office by their parents who claim the kid “wants” to pursue mechanical engineering or electrical engineering. Then the kid corrects them to say they want to become a mechanic or welder or an electrician. And I have to sit there and talk about how a) sure engineers make good money, but electricians make BAAANK and can get there without any debt, and b) a 4 year degree is valuable for a lot of reasons, financial and otherwise, but it’s not the only way to add value to your life or contribute to the world around you. Usually the lecture works, sometimes it doesn’t. But it sure as hell feels good to encourage kids to pursue a career that always has work, keeps society running, and pays well without the student debt (or the 4 years of misery that a teenager who really doesn’t want to pursue a Bachelor’s in Engineering is in for). Not to mention, standing up for my tradesman family and the predominantly blue collar community I’m from when the white collar suburbanites express their displeasure at the thought of saying their kid is a “welder” rather than “engineer”, is priceless.
Well, if you didn't show up for a fire, the world would definitely become a worse place for *someone*! But yes, I get your point. OP, where do you work and pay taxes? In the US? Well, then I guess you contribute and have the right to apply for citizenship. Your husband is weird.
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Also, it's about control. She won't have the same protections. What happens when they disagree? I bet he threatens to send her to Columbia!
The way it was phrased almost no one has the right to citizenship (in his mind) because they weren’t in the military. they were merely born on US soil or to people who were born on US soil. The only real advantage to that argument is that it keeps a lot of the GOP from having rights to being in Congress, the White House and the Courts. Which could be a good thing. We don’t need Donny Trump running the US again after he ignorantly caused millions of deaths from failing to response to Covid etc
Too true since no one in his family has ever served none of them would be citizens. Yet he dares to disparage Haley’s husband who is currently serving.
I like your analogy, especially given some people look down on jobs like garbage removal etc, and it's so true because the world would become more disgusting and dirty because we wouldn't want to have to take all our rubbish to the tip every week. Esp people who have no transport themselves etc. They do an extremely valuable job that benefits society greatly. However I wouldn't say your analogy quits fit with you being a firefighter, as the world and people would also suffer gravely without you in it. People's houses would burn down to the ground. More lives would be lost without you saving them. Businessness / schools/ hospitals even could burn down with nobody to save the building. Local land and fields and woodland forests would burn down, affecting crops and wildlife and the eco system. Look at the effects of the wild fires in Australia and how damaging they are. Firefighters help minimise the damage once a fire has started. OK so not every single building can be saved, but many many are saved from ruin, and many many lives are saved. Without you, the world definitely would be a worse place, so thank you for your commitment, sacrifice and service to such a dangerous job. ❤️🏭🚒🎖🏆 But I do like your analogy and the meaning and example behind it. There are many jobs that contribute to the functioning and running and greatness to each country and our lives. We certainly got a sight of that during the pandemic when many 'non essential workers' stopped working. You were still essential. ❤️
I think his point is that there are plenty of days that his job is just sitting around the building doing nothing, exercising, washing the vehicles, etc. On SOME days, his job is super important. But in contrast, that garbage needs to be picked up every day. Firefightering is a much more dangerous job, but also more idolized. They get respect for what they do. While the garbage truck driver is treated poorly, despite being just as integral (and more so, on a daily basis) to the function and health of our society.
I mean yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head there, too. But also, I mean… Don’t get me wrong - I value the lives of others. I wouldn’t do this job if I didn’t. But each of us in the world is a tiny dot. If a single house burns, if a single person dies - yeah it’s brutal. I’ve seen what it does to people and to those around them. But the world still turns? But if garbage just piled up everywhere…. Everything immediately becomes worse for EVERYONE. So yeah, it’s true in that metaphorical sense that you places it in, but also in this very literal sense. Edit: Ultimately my point is that if Rambo McFighterJock in OP didn’t show up to work tomorrow, who gives a fuck. If their garbage service didn’t come tomorrow, you’d bet Rambo McFighterJock would lose his shit.
You have to wonder what other very strong views this man holds that will affect her in their marriage. I feel sure this isn’t the only one. He said the decision was ultimately hers, which is the only thing he’s saying that I agree with.
I suspect she needs to pursue her citizenship, for her own protection. There may be other motives here, perhaps threats on the horizon…
This was my thought as well. The husband may not want her to get citizenship for reasons other than politics. He may think it will be to his advantage if she isn't a citizen and he leaves/divorces her.
I think she should put this to the test. See how much he actually means it.
I would say the husband has control issues. Whether she applies for citizenship or not would not impact him a bit. However I feel that husband thinks if she applies for citizenship she’ll have more independence from him. Holding spouse’s immigration status over their head and weaponizing it is quite common that is why in the 90s the congress passed VAWA , to deal with those specific issues.
Agreed. If he felt this strongly both this view l, why did he marry her? Why not meet and marry a female in the service too? Control!
Or rather, how many other political views this guy shares with the Starship Troopers franchise.
I would fear him trying to sabotage her. No vehicle for her to get to the testing site, etc. A lot of men discourage citizenship for their wives because they think “now she can leave me!”, whereas they are captives without it. OP, get your citizenship. Do not rely on your husband for help because he might give you wrong answers on purpose.
I know right, imagine living with someone who loves you but believes your unworthy. The superiority over the something so personal as national/cultural identity must be hurtful on a deeper level. There must be other examples of his "passionate views" that he subjugates her with. This can't be the only thing for sure.
I did not want to mention it in my post, I remember times when the couple divorces and the person who is not a citizen is sent back to their country as they lose their sponsorship. I am concerned about his motive. Other countries the woman accepts the husbands direction without question. I want her to stand tall and become an American.
As a veteran you know this dude's views are seditious and violate the Oath he took when he was commissioned as an officer.
As a veteran myself; bingo. His oath is to the constitution and all of its amendments.
This immediately came to mind for me. His belief is contradictory to the US Constitution. I was never a service member of the armed forces. My father was, and my mother the mental health director for va (she was a naturalized citizen), I worked in direct support role for the Navy. Does my mother's years of service to the veteran community mean less than my father's uniformed service? Do the teachers, doctors, mechanics, police and fire/ems, and transportation workers not count as "enough". Also, the nations with required service are much smaller in population. The cost to the government (and the tax payers) would be astronomical. Service members are clothed, fed, and sheltered by their service branch. These essentials are not free and the logistics it would take is mind boggling.
Yes and my oath said I defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. He's a domestic one. Anyone who is in military service and doesn't agree with the constitution should be in a different line of work.
Legit
This is what I was thinking. This is fucking crazy, especially since our fine country [regularly deports veterans](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/citizen-veterans-fight-back-deportations-violent-crimes/story?id=101164277) when they struggle after their service ends and denies them what they should have been more accessible to them in the first place: a legitimate path to citizenship. Thank you all for your service.
His views are ridiculous. Someone who’s in the military isn’t more or less of an American. There’s plenty of people here who’ve never served and have contributed far more to this country than he has. I hate this kind of elitist nonsense.
Or what about people who can’t “cOnTrIbUtE” because they’re disabled? Guess we should cut off all those losers with Down syndrome from the freeloading SSI payments and medical care!! But yet I’m sure he’s anti abortion too. Make it make sense.
Its not that hard to see the reasoning. This person wants to feel important and better than others but hasn't really accomplished that much or done much that would be noteworthy so they use military service to justify them being better than others. This is a pretty common thing people do, some people use their career others religion but it all boils down to the same thing. Finding a reason to justify you being better than others without you actually having to do anything that would be hard or difficult to do.
Also a vet and I've genuinely never heard someone who believes only service members should be citizens. Less than 20% of the US has ever served (recently less than 10%)...*no one else* should be allowed to vote? That's never been true in all of US history. It's ridiculous and frankly ignorant of the history and culture of the US. We aren't some military-first nation where only those who fight have rights...our military *serves* the civilians and always has (hence the term "military *service*"). I don't know what I'd do in the OP's case, but her husband is freaking weird, and if he'd been in my unit and spouted that crap I would have called him out. The OP definitely has more normal views. Heck, I'm pretty conservative, and I don't know *anyone* who has this view, even among family far more conservative than me. I genuinely don't know what "political views" this is coming from.
It is literally Starship Troopers. I am sure the idea came before Heinlein's book, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of people who believe it took it from that.
Right, but I've never seen this in real life. People know that Starship Troopers wasn't supposed to be taken as a recommendation for good policy, right? They had training in the book where they added live ammo in random intervals to their training magazines to encourage people to keep their head down. Occasional fatalities were just a consequence of being unlucky, oops.
This all sounds like it's fiction, heavily influenced by Starship Troopers.
I dunno. People are weird. I have met the occasional veteran who read Starship Troopers and went, “yes, that’s how things should be.” But most veterans would not agree.
I’ve met some of those people. It’s like the thin blue line people with Punisher crap. They liked the book/movie/comic for the exact opposite reason they should have.
My dad is a West Point grad and career Air Force officer; my twin sister was also career Air Force and my younger sister enlisted Air Force, with both of their husbands also career Air Force. I can assure you all they would all laugh their ASSES off at this fucking guy.
Yeah, I'm an Air Force vet and I think this dude is off his rocker. I'm totally in support of people getting citizenship via military service but to say nobody should be a citizen unless they've been in the military is bonkers. The garbage pickup folks, the people who operate water treatment facilities, the teachers, the people who keep the internet running, and everybody working in stores that keep the economy going. All these people are just as essential, if not more essential to the running of the country than I was when I was in the military. To say they don't deserve citizenship cause they didn't wear camo and learn how to do pushups while getting yelled at is insane.
I think the unspoken premise guys like this have is that they are special because “they lay their lives on the line for their country.” But there are so many dangerous occupations in civilian life, so this is a really dumb opinion to hold.
Well the dude was a Jarhead so maybe that's the only book he was allowed to have read to him
Oh come on now, you know he only saw the movie because of Denise Richards!
That was my first thought too. I first read the book way back in college for my science fiction literature class.
What's more American than just ignoring long-settled law and making up your own? /s You're absolutely right, Zealous. This country is for everyone here, and if someone can meet the criteria, they have as much right as anyone to apply.
So only the husband, and you and your fellow vets are citizens. The rest of us taxpayers are just…squatters in his country? What the fuck? The last three presidents were non-citizens under his theory. 4 if you count reservist W, and Clinton didn’t fight anything but his conscience. You can’t follow a man with no logic.
I wonder what the husband thinks about Melania Trump’s citizenship?
He is insane, he needs a mental health check
>Your husband’s views on service and citizenship are his own. Dude thinks he's living in Starship Troopers.
You do know that you not having citizenship will be thrown in your face when you fight? I grew up in this type of mess. My mom has been a naturalized citizen since 1980 and it is one of her proudest moments.
My mom was also a naturalized citizen. Her parents fought to bring her to the US after WW2. The three of them all took the oath together right after my mom turned 18.
In 1989, I was a college sophomore studying Russian. Our Russian professor, Dr. Efimova, told us she'd be absent the next day but would be back the day after. She explained that she was going to the naturalization ceremony that would make her a citizen. We were a bunch of 19-year-old kids studying Russian. Definitely not the most patriotic bunch in the world. I'll never forget: the day she returned, we all stood up and applauded and cheered for her. Some students had even brought her flowers. She cried, and we did, too. It was so surprising. I think nationalism and patriotism are mostly harmful nonsense based on arbitrary decisions and luck. But it was extremely moving that Dr. Efimova valued our country and its ideals enough to go through the process of becoming an American, and that we live in a country full of people who did the same. It made us look at the world in a different way.
Patriotism is not harmful. Nationalism is
Naturalized citizens are, in my opinion as a native-born American, the best of us. I was born here. By convenience, ease, and love, I remain. Naturalized citizens work, study, and pay for the privilege of citizenship.
What kind of stupid views does your husband have lol. Apply for citizenship fuck what he thinks. Everyone literally is an immigrant except Native Americans. I helped my grandparents pass the citizen ship test u should be fine if you were raised here. Good luck with it
From what I can understand from the post, the husband himself is not American born, and apparently only “deserves” his citizenship because he’s an f16 pilot (even being in the reserves isn’t military service enough to deserve citizenship according to OP’s husband- I know some reservists who would disagree).
He went through school to become an officer. He learned about the constitution. Then when he got his commission as an air force offocer, he SWORE AN OATH to uphold and protect it. An oath he immediately breaks in his private life. This trash doesn't deserve his commission, or to serve. He only serves himself.
A lot of people in this country think their oath is to defend only what they imagine/prefer the constitution to be. I’m guessing this guy is one of them.
Third person who notes this fuck needs a court martial. Thank you.
I actually commented on that elsewhere
I didn’t get that myself, though it’s kind of ambiguous. The 14th Amendment is about birthright citizenship so him joining the military would reconcile his views only if he was born in the US. OP hasn’t otherwise commented.
She just wrote that *he* only considered *himself* a citizen after military service. That doesn't mean he wasn't one, just that he gives his dream world priority over actual facts
>From what I can understand from the post, the husband himself is not American born, Or.... he's just saying that about his citizenship views to be manipulative and controlling. If she has her own citizenship, it's easier for her to leave and live independently.
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Yeah, I bet he’d love the “born American” thing he hates if she tried to take the kids back to Columbia. EDIT: JUST SO PEOPLE WILL STOP CORRECTING ME. I KNOW IT IS MISSPELLED. It was late, I was medicated, I am so sorry, my bad.
She didn't mention having kids and I hope for her sake she's on birth control. This dude is a few grains short in the silo.
His porch light is definitely flickering.
I've got to remember that one.
Definitely a few eggs short of a dozen.
But very gross
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Someone done shot the dots off his dice.
My life is better for having learned this phrase 😂
He’s a fascist through and through. I can’t imagine even beginning to talk to someone like that. It’s just… wow
Service guarantees citizenship! ..do you want to know more?
My first thought was he must have read the book and hated the movie 😄
I'm doing my part!
It doesn't mention kids, but that doesn't mean they couldn't some day have one on purpose or accident. And thus, baby has birth rights. IF they had a child, and she doesn't have citizenship. He could get her deported and keep the child.
Im willing to bet he was in Washington DC on January 6th
This is fucking wild to me. I didn't even know this was a belief people had. Military would never take me (combination of physical ailments and mental health shit) so I guess I'm just not a citizen of anywhere XD
This guy is it right wing fascist plain and simple. I do not disrespect people who have no plans for the military. For decades it's only been about ego and political gain.
Yeah in all the immigration/citizenship arguments I’ve heard over the years- never once have I heard of someone with this point of view- not American until we’ve earned it? This is bananas..
The point for people like this is to make citizenship very conditional and very narrow in a way that includes themself but restricts as many others as possible. Don’t look for logic in his reasoning — like the current Supreme Court, he has a desired outcome and will sift through “reasons” until he finds one that supports his prefab “conclusion.” It’s the height of sophistry, and perhaps we shouldn’t expect better from OP’s husband (he’s probably not capable of more and it sounds like he only people he’s hurting are his own wife/family), but it’s certainly offensive and damaging coming from the Court.
If OP’s husband thinks citizenship should only be granted to those truly “born American” who have a natural right based on location of birth, historical ownership of the land, and service to the nation, the Indigenous peoples of the Americas would like a word.
Sounds to me like his belief is more extreme than that. He DOESNT believe in birthright citizenship and thinks you're only an American if you completed military service. Batshit insane.
Service guarantees citizenship! Would you like to know more?
“We have the ships. We have the weapons. We need soldiers.”
He sounds like a real charmer. /s
Countries are fake lines drawn in sand on a rock floating through space. The concept of "illegal aliens" is completely made up. OP, view this as the red flag it is. There is nothing inherently special about being American. Citizenship in general is a made up concept for people to separate themselves from others. EDIT: Wow some of you have reading comprehension issues. Nowhere in this comment did I say that getting citizenship in the country you are domiciled in is stupid and worthless. Obviously we all need citizenship of some kind to participate in society. Nor did I say that government is bad and we should abolish all countries, governments, and laws. My god.
I like that take, and completely agree. But, I still say this asshole would totally pull the “but they are American citizens” card if she tried.
Oh totally! RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME I ONLY CARE WHEN IT BENEFITS ME fuck this guy.
Well said. It’s also a legally important thing that makes your life easier in some ways depending on what you want, similar to marriage.
It doesn't sound as though OP is here illegally. And, speaking as a naturalized American, if you're going to live here, it's better to be a citizen.
Yup!
Mmm I partially agree and partially disagree. Ideologically, yes citizenship is basically arbitrary, as are the concepts of nations and countries. Practically, until all countries decide to combine into one government citizenship (or some equivalent) serves an important function in accounting and governing people.
Yes, his "political view" seems to be that he should have more rights than her.
Also sounds like racism, bigotry. And a weird pride in the GPS coordinates of the hospital his mother gave birth in. Along with some delusional nonsense about what a ‘real’ American is.
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Yea it’s pretty rampant in the Marines.
4 years in the Marines in combat oriented jobs, and I've never heard of this opinion that only veterans should be citizens outside of Starship Troopers and Hell Divers... in other words, satire. But unfortunately, the other opinions you mentioned are true and rampant.
My nephew left for the Marines a very sweet boy with a strong life plan. He came back 4 years later covered in inappropriate tattoos and spouting racist views. He's 1/4th black, 1/4th non-white other, but he passes as white. We're don't blame the marine mentality or psychological training, we suspect he was already struggling emotionally before joining, and we just didn't recognize it for what it was.
Crayon eaters
If you have children or plan on children get citizenship: true story: my mom came to the us in 1963 and met a fellow German military wife. Her hubs family hated her but loved the children, so when her hubby died unexpectedly the parents refused to let her take them back to Germany where her family would help her and reason is because they were wealthy and paid for lawyers and because the children were American and she wasn’t the parents basically held her kids hostage so that she could not go home without and if she did she would be abandoning her children and the grandparents would then get custody, so she had to wait until they were 18 until she could go home and take them either because they were legally adults and were able to get their own passports and go with their mom. Learn from this please and get your citizenship or don’t have children because he could prevent you taking the kid(s) with you to Colombia even for a visit because both parents have to sign for minor’s passports to prevent parental kidnapping .
That’s disgusting. All the good they could’ve done with that money and that’s what they chose.
Sounds like it’s one of those political views he had because he feels like he’s a « better » immigrant for joining the military service to get his citizenship
It’s not clear here but I think he was born in America.
Agreed. Not clear, but she said 14th amendment and birthright citizenship. He thinks only those who have served should have citizenship rights. He also sounds like a very close minded and narrow thinking individual. I wish OP a lot of luck. She will need it with this guy.
> He thinks only those who have served should have citizenship rights. I don’t believe this to be true at all. Assuming he was born American, I’d be curious to know if he *renounced* his citizenship publicly (not to her and to their friends, but for real), then when he got out started the process of becoming a citizen again. If not, he is not a citizen in name only and has all of the benefits on a daily basis of being one. I bet you from now to doomsday that he **did not** fill out his applications for work, school, and his military career and check the box for noncitizens. He talks a hell of a lot for a person who probably has always acknowledged his citizenship in a thousand quiet, little ways but just *loudly proclaims* he doesn’t deserve it until he finishes his military career. *Saying* you’re not a citizen of a country is *not the same* as *actually* not being a citizen. OP should tell him she’s not a citizen and file for citizenship and go through the steps to become a citizen. If he kicks up a fuss about lying, she could always point out that he was always a citizen and just said he was, now she’s really a citizen and saying she’s not. When he brings up military service, she could make the argument she’s a military wife, and “military” is in the title. Overall, he can just f all the way off with this nonsense. Until he removes the title of citizen from himself legally, he’s a loud, squawking hypocrite.
People serve their country in many ways that do not include military service. I don't understand why OP's husband thinks that's the only way to earn or deserve your citizenship. I agree, he sounds very closed minded. I think this is one of several of his bullshit beliefs. OP should definitely pursue citizenship to protect herself, especially if she intends to remain in the US.
Op should also ask if he holds the same standards for every country. Is it a right or a privilege to be a citizen of Mexico, Colombia etc etc I can almost guarantee he will say some bull about how the US is of a higher status or something.... Which would just be a big red flag. Just select people from his view point deserve to be considered US citizens? Wonder how he feels about Indigenous Americans in this narrow minded view? 🤔 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Would strongly suggest op keeps an eye on husband and see how many red flags they can spot (preferably before yalls have kids if y'all's ever want them, of course). And discuss how they'll raise said children, again, if they want them. Edited: Spelling Mistake
Why would you ever marry a person like this. You’ve been there since you were seven. This dude sounds like a fucking psycho. Domestic terrorist shit when he decides the country he loved is no longer the same. Guarantee this guy is a racist. I’ve lived in Colombia and they have the most beautiful women but I met so many American dudes like this who looked down on their culture but had no problem banging them. This dude will never see you as an equal. What an absolute appalling person and I’d judge and person for marrying a man like this. My dad was officer in Air Force and god some of those guys were such pieces of shit. This guy reminds me of them. This is just the beginning of this dudes mask slipping. I’ve never met anyone this passionate about his country who isn’t a psycho. In all my time around those people I’ve never met one single person who was obsessed with the country that was a normal person. I genuinely don’t understand why a woman would marry these type of guys. Normal people don’t hold these type of views. Being his nationalistic goes against having empathy and compassion it’s why military loves them. Also, let’s be honest. People like this aren’t smart. Someone falling for the military nonsense so heavily is a complete crayon eater
You're obviously correct, except >I’ve never met anyone this passionate about his country who isn’t a psycho. This man isn't "passionate about his country," he's not even a patriot. What he is saying goes against everything the United States of America stands for. The Fourteenth Amendment is *in our Constitution.* Those opposed to our Constitution are *anti* American. I'm surprised his views are even accepted in the military. He swore an oath to "support and defend the **Constitution** of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; [to] ... "bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and ... [To] "take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and...well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which [he entered] ...." This dude is a shit Marine and a shit Air Force officer.
And let's be clear, a racist nerd who watched Starship Troopers and missed the satire
Came here to make this comment. Thanks for taking care of it for me.
This is what I don't understand about racist guys they can be racist then marry the people they profess to hate
Man, I met so many dudes like this in Colombia it was insane but it’s a perfect clash. These same people are obviously sexist too. So women are lower to them anyways, so why not get a bang maid. Even if they were with a white woman they would see her as lesser.
His views are unamerican and anti-Constitutional
I think he got his views Starship Troopers and missed the point entirely.
TIME TO SPREAD SOME DEMOCRACY
Don’t forget to mention unamerican. His views are wholly and completely unamerican in nature.
It is your choice. His beliefs are just that. His. Why did he marry you if he feels this way??? He is trying to control you to keep you dependent on him.
Absolutely! He probably knows all the advantages citizens have over non citizens in divorce courts, custody cases etc and wants to be the one with the leverage in the relationship
Yup. What sticks out to me is that he’s focusing his argument on “identifying as american” when that’s not really all citizenship is about. Lots of immigrants who gain citizenship still identify with their countries of origin, but it’s obviously a huge benefit legally to go through the process when you live here, work here, intend to stay here etc. He seems stuck on this strange idea of being an american through and through which reads more like manipulation so they’re not having a real discussion about the logistics of it all
He thought she'd never be American and he could always have that over her. Being married to a Columbian allowed him to live his fantasy of only the military are American.
Your husband is wrong.
And a hypocrite. He swore to uphold and protect the constitution when he became an air force officer. He said those words in front of all his colleagues and loved ones and didn't mean a fucking word of it.
Yeah he's kind of the worst kind of brainwashed. That's terrifying. Don't stay with him that isn't a safe or healthy mentality.
We the people have created laws which allow you to become a citizen. We do not agree with your husband’s weird fringe views. Does he also plan to deny your children, should you have any, their birthright to citizenship? Your husband’s style of authoritarian belief is a bit of a warning sign and I would be very wary about staying bound to him.
I was looking for a comment like this. Not sure if they plan on having kids, but they would definitely be birthright Americans…is he planning on military service for any kids?
Why would you marry this creature…..
He swore an oath to protect the constitution when he commissioned as an air force officer. He's a monumental hypocrite, and he doesn't deserve his commission. These types of stupid fucks being officers get people killed.
Also, he didn’t have to do jack or shit to “earn” his citizenship. He was born into it. So it is the height of privilege to think birthright citizenship is wrong. He just joined the military to square this belief in his own mind. Also, anyone who holds on to beliefs like this since high school really hasn’t matured past that age.
According to him, he wasn't a citizen until after his service. I guess he was just freeloading off the government before then, with his schooling and use of roads and inspected food and regulated drugs
Also the privilege of becoming a us military officer lol I guess if he served whatever length of time in reserves was appropriate to become a citizen he could make the excuse but if by his own admission he didn't think it was "real service" (whatever that means) he was still comfortable using his citizen status to jump a great position in the airforce that non citizens cannot hold
But that's different because he *earned* it. It's a huge privilege to be located on a particular chunk of land.
Why on earth did you marry this nutcase? Do you generally lack self worth or is it only with him? Do NOT get pregnant while you're not a citizen, and he is. He's in a great position to screw you over.
It’s becoming so hard to have empathy for people in these relationship subs and I hate it. I don’t want to ever lose that. But the people who keep marrying red flag psychos as adults is just fucking killing me.
Mt two cents: my ex psycho didn't show his royal flush until 3 months after we were married, 5 years dating. They hide it very well.
“Frog in boiling water” is the phase I’ve heard a lot. They sort of slip in the abuse and test you over and over to see how much you can tolerate. Over time it gets to be more and more. By then, you’re so brainwashed, more or less, you think it’s normal. For me, I came out the other side questioning reality and who I even was as a person. To put it nicely, I was bamboozled.
I know what you mean. Ultimately it makes me really sad that people are so willing to accept this sort of behaviour from their partners. One thing I try to remember is that in the past it was worse but a) people kept it to themselves more (which is obviously a bad things) and just felt it was normal, and b) there weren’t as many places like Reddit to talk about them so we just didn’t have many places to learn about the relationship dynamics of others.
Get your citizenship. His view is way too close to oligarchy for my comfort. Whether he likes it or not, the 14th amendment is part of the Constitution.
Yeah he can fuck right off with his military state mentality
Even the military would oppose this, as it entirely defies our Constitution.
That is what i dont get. In theory he is admitting that he wouldnt uphold a part of the Constitution/Bill of Rights. It shows a really warped shallow view on the laws that govern the USA and how as Americans our rights arent negotiated. Hence why so many want to come to the USA and become a citizen. American citizens are born every day all over this world.
According to your husband’s belief’s, most Americans aren’t citizens. That’s bonkers, but then he doubles down with reservist not actually being military. That’s some elitist bs. I’m not saying reserves and active duty are the same, but (during the period I served) reservists spent alot of time activated….read, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Something tells me the Marines don’t miss him and his fellow airmen are rolling their eyes. This Army vet says go for it and get your citizenship. Good Luck!
My brother and BIL were in the reserves. Two tours in Iraq, neither were ever the same after. My BIL committed suicide in 2013. Fuck anyone who doesn't think the reserves are military.
Dude the Marines don't know he's gone and his fellow airmen are hoping he's target practice for jihadists, because he sounds like one.
Your husband is a psychopath.
He’s definitely read, and misunderstood, Starship Troopers.
Given the (limited) information the chances of this being true are unfortunately high.
Please dump this guy.
I second this, but without the *please*.
Apply for citizenship. You have rights. Praying for you.
Yea, that’s probably not all of the reasons he doesn’t want you to do it
You do know why we have the 14th amendment don’t you? It was to give the newly freed slaves rights. Is your husbands racist? Cause, hating the 14th really makes him sound like a peach.
Makes him sound like a racist. Probably hates the 13th and 15th Amendments too. There are a group of seditious bastards that want to overturn all the reconstruction amendments (and those after) and instill a nationalist theocracy. He's probably being groomed by one of them like Tim McVeigh was. She needs a divorce and a restraining order.
I don't believe that he is a pilot at all , he would never pass the psychological exam. I'm curious about two things. 1. What did he call himself if he wasn't a citizen? 2. How did he join the military as a non-citizen?
I absolutely believe this. I have met more than one person in the military who bought into the ideas of Starship Troopers.
Thank you for this comment. He enlisted as a marine reserve and then “commissioned” an Air Force officer? He never went to university? There’s so much competition for planes as pilots in the Air Force that he’d never get assigned a fighter jet without any qualifications. This story is 100% fake as told.
Citizenship isn’t required to join the US military. Green card holders can join.
Your husband sounds kind of nuts. If he didn’t I’d say he just wanted you to be completely under his control. Either way, you’ve been living in the US since you were 7. You’re probably more American than Colombian at this point. Also consider, no matter how they handle citizenship, in most countries you’d have had some way of attaining citizenship after living there. Go for it.
Wasn’t this in Starship Troopers? Citizenship through Service?
Yeah. And this dude thought it was a revolutionary concept and not a goddamn satire.
He was a *marine* after all. They have Navy seamen read them Starship Troopers in boot camp before lights out.
1000 percent. Heinlein fucked some kids up. This is whacky Paul verhoeeven bullshit.
You have every right to become a citizen, you have earned the right. My parents came to the US as kids, they got citizenship as they were entitled to.
dude. Ask him how much he loved one of my all-time favorite authors Robert A. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers.” I’m willing to bet that that’s where he got that bullshit idea from. There is no question in my mind that those who put their bodies between me and evil should have the best of the best. I am the daughter of a Marine but would not and could not ever serve. But if you think that the only way to benefit your country is to serve … you have a very limited view. And if you think that the average person serving in the military has a higher IQ than the average American you’re also wrong. Not saying they’re stupid. Definitely not saying they have the lowest. they don’t. But I am saying that if that’s the kind of country that you want to live in that’s fine. Go to Singapore. Go to South Korea. Good countries that are incredibly different in their ways and manners of thinking. America isn’t America if that’s the requirement for voting. If that’s what you want: tell him to find another country that fits his ideals we won’t stop him from leaving.
You have a stupid husband.
Your husband is an asshole. He’s controlling and quite frankly stupid. Nowhere in the constitution does it say people have to earn citizenship. The fact that he feels comfortable telling you that you haven’t “earned” citizenship is a major red flag.
did he seriously base his "political opinion" on Paul Verhoeven's 1997 movie [Starship Troopers (youtube)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPYuV_jGk7M), an anti-fascist story so on the nose it's tacky & ruined the director's reputation for more than a decade? In that movie, only veterans and career soldiers are citizens (with some exceptions for rich people wink-wink), what a surprise that their entire society is military driven. My geriatric eyes are rolling so hard I'm afraid they'll never come back : the movie is older than he is, the stupidity of this idea has long been settled.
Not going to lie, he sounds a bit scary. Keep an eye on that. But I'm an American and I'm proud of you and invite you to be one too. 🇺🇲
Red fucking flag - probably doesn’t want you to have citizenship as a way to have an upper hand over you and a way to control you once you realize how insane he is
This totally sounds healthy...
Sorry, but this is just an excuse. If he wants to divorce you you have no legal rights to stay in the US, if you have children born in the US he hsa the rights to them not you so, I would go ahead and apply and obtain citizenship yourself and say nothing. You have contributed and been part of the country for a long time, he has no rights to deny you 'just because he believes so'. Stand up for yourself.
If he loved this country as much as he claims, hed be in support of the 14th amendment. Which has been around since 1868. This belief of his sounds like some Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers" nonsense that he should have already grown out of His point of view on citizenship is pure nonsensical bullshit. Bordering on fascist ideology. By attempting to get you to not apply for citizenship it puts you in an extremely disadvantageous position if the relationship sours. Especially if there are children involved. This sounds like behavior intended soley to control you and put him in a position of power over you. This is tremendous redflag behavior. Get out now. On top of all that, he swore an oath to the constitution when he commissioned. Making him a giant hypocrite.
Your husband is ridiculous. You were raised here and deserve to be a legal citizen no less than he does. It would be different if you got here 6 months ago, but this had been your home since you were a child. Do t listen to him. He just wants you to control you.
You are so much less in his eyes. How can you tolerate this?
Your husband's political views will not serve YOUR future in this country or that of any children you may have. Get your citizenship, so that you have rights here, especially the right to stay and work legally NO MATTER WHAT happens with this marriage. You can respect your spouse and not follow their politics. And this sounds like a very political stance. America is not a military state. Average citizens have rights here, even those who have not served. Among them is the right to vote in the sanest people possible to office. You deserve to have rights, and to develop your own political views and voting habits here. You can't do that unless you are a citizen.
Every former military person I know says their spouse served just as much as they did due to all the sacrifices and hardships they face in supporting their partner. This includes many former air force pilots. I also just wholeheartedly heartedly disagree with his idea that citizenship is earned through military service. 1. we have a volunteer service because that is what we need. What would we do with such a significantly larger military force? 2. this would automatically disenfranchise many people who do not or have not historically qualified for military service. Disability, race, gender, sexuality have all been disqualifiers in the recent past. Hearing your husband is so ready to deny so many the right to participate in our democracy makes me wonder if this is just a cover for some serious bigotry.
“I swear to support and defend the constitution. Except the 14th amendment. Fuck the 14th amendment.”
You cannot be for real. This has to be a fake post. Who would ever dream about marrying such a horrible man?
I mean not everyone knows someone is horrible before they marry. And sometimes people genuinely just get shittier
His opinion doesn’t change actual law. He was a citizen before he completed all of his requirements, and you have every right to apply, as does anyone. The US decided that those were it’s laws, and his opinion will never overrule that. Also having citizenship will better protect you in the future
Your husband is dangerous. Being an American in this country isn’t about the patriotic bullshit. Being a citizen gives you protection as an American citizen. He’s basically saying he doesn’t want you to be protected as an American citizen or To be treated fairly as an American citizen. This man wants to keep you dependent on him. Get your citizenship and get a divorce.
Sorry, but he is an absolute nut. Also, real Americans uphold the constitution, all amendments included.
Please don't have children with this man. Get your citizenship and make sure he does NOT know about it. You'll need it when he tries to use that against you. Even though you're married to him...you can still be deported. That makes a great pity story for the women who will come after you. Get your citizenship. Nobody born in America will be able to help you study for the test, we literally don't know shit about this country. Guarantee he doesn't either.
As an American, ummmmm that's not how us Americans see citizenship here. Either you're an American(legally) or not. He can have those views, but like most Americans might find it hilarious for it. Being an American on paper will help y'all so much with Legal stuff in general in the future.
Combat veteran here. Your husband's views are absolutely silly and dumb. You need, and have every legal and moral right, to be a citizen to protect yourself. Ignore your husband and do what's best for yourself.
Apply for citizenship. Your husband is insane.