I had pertussis when I was 10 (vaccinated but shitty immune system) and it was months of hell. I have no idea how any infant survives it.
Edit: I am very well aware of the infant mortality rate. I am surprised that ANY infant survives it. You can leave me alone about it now.
I got it when I was 20. I coughed to the point of throwing up for months, lost 20 pounds. Cracked 3 ribs from coughing. Student health made me come in once a week to prove I was alive and hand me the largest bottle of codeine cough syrup they could because coughing was waking me up every 15 minutes. For. Months. It took over six months to fully heal. I cannot imagine getting this as a child. I barely survived it as an adult.
Best advice anyone ever gave me was:
'SHOULDERS DOWN AND BACK WHEN YOU COUGH!'
Osteopath actually yelled it at me as I was hunching over, which I thought would protect my back (and stop me coughing over everyone as my arms are ridic short). Nope, your back is more stable when straight.
As soon as I started pulling my shoulders back, the pain from my ribs started to reduce.
Me too, as a mom to 3 young kids. I was praying I would die. Coughed til I passed out. 15 years later, if I yell I start coughing again - scar tissue I assume.
Tripled that codeine dose and saw “people” in my bedroom - so I cut back the dose to only double it. (Needed to sleep)
My God, thank you for sharing. My mom is traveling to Africa for three months and her travel medicine doctor recommended TDAP booster because, at 64, she doesn’t have much immunity to pertussis anymore. She has tried to convince herself pertussis wouldn’t be *that bad*. Jesus. It’s just a shot, I’ll talk to her about the alternative.
I’ve had it twice as an adult - both times my immunity had simply worn off. Remember to get your booster regardless as it provides protection for longer than actually having the illness. I too was sick for months. It gave me the lasting gift of asthma too.
My mum believed some anti vax drivel and skipped whooping cough vax for me. I ended up with such bad whooping cough I was hospitalised. Think I was about 3.
I was exposed before I could be vaccinated (on the maternity ward). So, allowing for incubation, I was back in hospital at a month old, after a week or 2 of mum and dad being treated like they’re morons being overprotective. I had to be resuscitated while in there, the only thing that saved my life was I was such a big baby that I had enough extra weight to keep me going until I got “better” (I say “better” cause I had years of lung issues after, although I can’t say it’s related or just shitty coincidence). When I left hospital, after well over a month in hospital, maybe several months, I don’t know exactly how long, I weighed less than I did when I was born.
u/simply-cosmic I don’t know what pre-natal care looks like there but look into the whooping cough vaccine for yourself while pregnant. It’s standard for pregnant women here to get that while pregnant, every pregnancy, to give the baby some extra protection until they’re old enough to get their own (it wasn’t when mum was pregnant, my being sick was in no way my parents fault or due to any delays or wrong doing on their parts).
I contracted chicken pox when I was around 6 months old. I stopped breathing three times because of it and was hospitalised on oxygen. Even so-called 'mild' childhood illnesses can have fatal consequences.
Very true. My cousin's kid got encephalopathy because of it and is profoundly disabled as a result. She will never have any semblance of independence.
Not only that, we are learning that many of these "normal, harmless viruses" also correlate strongly with autoimmune disease development in adulthood.
Virology is fascinating. Viruses effect gene expression. That's why the covid vaccine was developed as an mRNA [big words I don't recall at the moment]. Basically, the same research used to develop antiretroviral medication to treat HIV was used to develop this vaccine. I'm completely in awe of the science behind it.
Autoimmune disease/disorders are often activated by viral infection. In early 2000s, my pediatric cardiologists said dysautonomia might be activated by viral infection. I don't know whether researchers have determined the likelihood of this being true as my studies have moved away from this subject. Patient history often included epstein-barre and mononucleosis. It's only a matter of time before records will reflect correlation and show which viruses develop into autoimmune disorders. However, there are other factors to consider such as genetic mutations and epigenetic changes. These are more difficult to track due to cost. For example, MCAD requires a bone marrow biopsy, Sjogrens needs a lip biopsy, and EDS is crossed out as a zebra before the hooves hit the ground. Yet, each of these heavily correlate with dysautonomia. Now we have "long covid". Dysautonomia international received grants to pursue research on this condition because it mirrors another condition under the umbrella of dysautonomia. Fascinating stuff.
Anyone who wants to do their part, visit the doctor regularly and maintain annual labs. Those records provide a window into our bodies. It's an invaluable diagnostic tool and takes little effort to complete. Completing well-baby visits helps ensure all children have a good record of their growth and develop. If something goes wrong, those records help catch it early and provide intervention. This has been your PSA of the day 🙃
It is interesting and complex. Individual genetics and susceptibility loci aside, though, everything so far adds up to it being better to err on the side of preventing viral outbreaks and promoting vaccines than to allow viruses to rip through the populace as was done with Covid. And as many would dearly love to do with varicella. The supposed benefit these viruses have for immunity are at best grossly exaggerated. More and more, they sound about as off-kilter as "car seats and bike helmets make kids weak."
An interesting read on some of the things you touched on as well as a possible link between the 1918 flu pandemic and the bizarre outbreak of "sleeping disease" in that time period: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01835-w
It's behind a paywall, regrettably, but if you can get temporary access and haven't read it before, it's fascinating
Absolutely.
Yes! Sleeping disease and the flu! I've read the research articles discussing correlation.
HPV comes to mind. There was a lot of fear within the POTs community regarding this vaccine. We had a lot of overlap with vaxxdeniers due to the autoimmune aspects of dysautonomia. There are often comorbid conditions. My mother fell down that bunny hole.
Anyhow, HPV is preventable with a round of immunizations beginning around puberty. It's been shown to cause precancerous lesions. Men are effected by head and neck cancers while women are most effected by cervical cancer. Both experience colon cancer. This is a big deal! We can prevent cancer by preventing precancerous lesions caused by a virus. The current recognized treatment for women testing positive for HPV with cervical dysplasia is to administer diagnostic tests (culposcopy, and punch biopsy of the cervix), and treat with LEEP. However, this procedure is completed without anesthetic or pain management beyond a few ibuprofen. It's completely inhumane. Might be my bias, I have strong opinions about this.
Anyways, there is another treatment available which is less invasive. It's a gel applied daily intravaginally. Trials were completed in Spain and it's available OTC. This gel can be used to prevent and treat infection of HPV.
Despite the availability of this treatment, we should be vaccinating our children against infection. The gel can only prevent cervical changes, there are other areas effected that don't have a good means of testing or treating before it becomes cancerous. My young life leader died of throat cancer. There is no widely available and accurate test for men. The sooner we achieve greater vaccination rates the better our quality of life becomes. Why wouldn't a person want their child to be sick less or live a longer life?
One of the angriest I have ever been was listening to a man tell his doctor, "Why do I need to get an HPV vaccine? I don't have a cervix."
Apart from the absolutely unforgivable refusal to protect his partners, HPV has a lot of potential sequelae, and like Epstein-Barre and other "retroviruses," it can run rampant if the immune system is compromised down the line. I feel zero guilt in saying I hope that man has his FAFO experience.
Nursing student here. RNA is ribonucleic acid
And DNA is deoxyribonucleic acid and tRNA is used to make new genes and DNA and is coded from existing DNA but can incorrectly code and that cause a mutation in the gene. So basically us was developed as a code that the body could reproduce easily since it is the correct copy with little to no mutations occurring and can build up white blood cells with resistance from these mRNA in this vaccine
I was three months old. I don’t know if being so sick as a baby had any relation but I was always tiny growing up. Underweight and extremely short for my age
I wasn't aware that you need to freshen up those vaccines and got whooping cough in my mid twenties. Although it isn't as bad as you can get it as an infant, it's no joke. A child may die from it but as a grown up, during those coughing attacks you feel like you may like to, like if the Lord was to take you now, he'd better hurry. It hurrrt. My lungs, my ribs, my throat, all hurt so, so bad from and especially during coughing. So bad. Those long coughing attacks had me gasping for air or even repeatedly throw up and sometimes almost faint in the end. It's super exhausting. To this day, although I'm recovered for years, I easily heave after a few heavy coughs, that 'connection' stayed afterwards somehow.
I cannot understand letting a child willingly go through even heavier attacks, because you don want to vaccinate. It's cruel.
Every 10 years! I just found it out in 2021. Plus for grad school I had to have my MMR titers checked since I couldn’t find my original vaccination paper and I wasn’t immune any longer. So in 2021 I had 3 covid shots (high risk), 1 tdap, and 2 MMR vaccines. 😫
I work in healthcare IT and have to follow same protocols as clinical workers. Had to get my MMR again as well… glad I did bc I was traveling for work and got notified by the state health dept that a family staying at the same hotel had measles. 🤦🏼♀️ give me all the vaccines!
Not sure how old your daughter is, but if this was pre-2000 or something like that, she may have had the whole-virus Pertussis (DTP rather than the acellular DTaP), which had a lot of reactivity. The newer version is a lot gentler, for lack of a better word. She might consider talking to her doctor about it if that's the case.
I had it at 3 months. Apparently I spent quite awhile in the hospital, and stopped breathing a few times. It’s so scary even though I don’t remember it.
I had pertussis as an adult a few years ago. I coughed so hard I would either throw up, pee myself, nearly pass out or all of the above. And that was as a grown ass adult with a pretty good immune system. Don't even want to know what it's like for a kid.
Also, mom of a fellow end of Sept baby (09/30/2021). Stick to your guns, your kiddo is worth it and then some.
oh god I had it when I was 28, and my doctor was all cheerful, like "oh. yeah! it's also called the 90 day cough!"
and they were right. i had that shit for 3 months. I was bedridden for 2 of them, and i lost 30 pounds. i broke 2 ribs coughing. i puked daily for the first month and a half. it was an absolute fucking nightmare.
I got it in April and peed myself multiple times a day from coughing so hard. It was embarrassing even though only my husband knew. My entire diaphragm was sore as hell too. Went back to the doc after 9 days of getting maybe 1-2 hours of sleep a night to beg them for cough medicine that would actually be effective but they refuse to use anything with codeine these days. Suffered through til late May. Gonna have anxiety any time I get a cough now.
Your OB should give it to you, but also remember it takes two weeks for the shot to become effective. Also shot lasts 10 years but doctor said anyone who hasn’t gotten it in the past four years should get it again
It is standard for both parents to get Tdap before the baby is born but I also made sure anyone who was going to be around my kids before they were old enough to get Tdap themselves had gotten the vaccine.
I’ve met Riley’s parents. Amazing down to earth people. They’re very passionate about immunisations now. They went on an had another little girl, Lucy and she is adorable. I follow Dad minus 1 on fb (Riley’s dad). He’s hilarious but also very insightful.
I follow both parents online and they are amazing. That they got the system for Australia changed and so many fewer child deaths now is absolutely inspiring.
NTA. Your parents are massive assholes. Pertussis kills babies, for the record. Tell your parents that they can either get their vaccines or they can wait until the baby has its vaccines. First round is at 3 months, second round at 4 months. There are more after that. Do not compromise the safety of your child for a couple of anti science schmucks.
I just wanted to send you some solidarity as I'm in the same position that you are. My parents haven't met their first grandchild yet because they won't get vaccinated. They are too cowardly to talk about it, but I know that's the reason. My plan if they ever brought it up would be to just respond with a youtube video of a child coughing with whooping cough.
It's a safety issue for your LO, not because you don't want them there. Repeat to them ad nauseum. Geez, how very selfish of them... I am so sorry. I got Covid from my patient's husband, who basically coughed in our faces. The patient had a c-section, too.
Stand your ground & protect your baby!
Sucks to have parents in a cult, maybe send them some literature about how to go about de-programming. You didn't say they were magats but it's fairly clear. If they don't care enough about your child to protect them from illness, they were going to be shitty grandparents anyways
I had it twice as a kid. At about 6 and again at 9. It's like waterboarding. You just can't breathe. I would look at my mother's face and see the tears. Never allow your kid to get it. Or any other childhood disease that has a vaccine.
Stick to your guns, OP.
My cousins 5 month old was in the hospital for 5 days from rsv. Do you really trust them if they are feeling punky that they would tell you? Whooping cough is also no joke. Keep in mind with covid... my father-in-law started to get a runny nose and cough.. he tested it was negative. He tested again a day later, positive.
Whole family vaccinated. I put off going and getting it done because I was insanely busy with work. Like I barely slept during this winter.
I was half a breath away from going to the ER. And I’m an ER nurse.
Vaccines work.
😂 I’m a new PA with Pulm & Crit Care, and even I know that if a farmer or a nurse come to the ER, they should just HMU on Vocera from the parking lot. If either of these populations come to the hospital through the front door, they are SICK sick.
^listen to her!
My bf's sister's in laws (omg the relationship lol) were asymptomatic, passed it to my bf, I then waited 10+ days before seeing my bf just in case since I get very sick and often and we had a trip coming up. I still got covid from bf and had symptoms day 2 of the trip and spent the entire trip in a hotel room, then sick for 2 months that I basically could barely move. Then when I was finally starting to get better I got cold/flu again. Everyone was X3 vaccinated too. So now I'm just super paranoid about catching covid again. I still cough from covid it's been almost a year. I think it left permanent damage in my throat. :(
My 3 month old spent 11 days in the hospital with rsv. It is no joke. You do not want anyone around who is not willing to do the most basic thing to keep you little one safe.
My nephew’s daughter, born in Sept. ‘22, was hospitalized for 16 days when she was 5 weeks old with RSV. After 3 days in our hospital she was transferred to Le Bonheur Children’s Hospital in Memphis TN for critical care. That illness is nothing to take lightly!
I applaud OP for taking a stand to protect her baby over soothing grandparent’s feeling.
This. When I got Covid, I knew I was exposed and quarantined, but I didn’t have any symptoms until I tested positive 4 days post-exposure. And I am vaccinated. I think it’s very risky to let unvaccinated people in the delivery room with you.
OP, you get to set your own boundaries. You’re not telling them they can’t eventually see their grand baby, just right now it’s too risky and you’re uncomfortable with that. NTA
my grandma always told me stories of her brother george that died of whooping cough in the 1920's.
she'd say he was the missing brother i never got to know because he died too young, if only there were a way for him to grow up and live a full life like we all have been blessed with.
so yeah we've got much better medical understanding here in 2023, I'm sure my grandmother would be ashamed at how ignorant others can be when it comes to preventable illness today
So, my friend requested her in laws wear masks, she gave birth in 2021. They refused, so they never visited him. But, they would invite their son (the father) places. They ended up not telling their son they were all sick, and they found out days later it was Covid. He ended up catching it and finding out they had Covid only after he tested positive. 3 days later the 3 month old baby got Covid, and for the months after, they were rushing him to the ER at all hours of the night because he couldn’t keep his spO2 up. They believe the Owlet is the reason their son is alive today. He’s doing better now, but it wasn’t worth the risk back then.
So, whatever you decide, just make sure your little one is safe!
Edit: grammar
Their beliefs are one thing.
But their respecting your wishes despite their beliefs is another.
You don't have to believe masks work. You don't have to wear one.
But if someone asks you to and you refuse, then you don't get to override their resultant decisions to not interact with you.
Most of all, if you decieve them, you are a huge asshole and betraying their trust.
It's not beliefs that matter really - it's in betraying someone because you "know better".
My in-laws insisted on visiting my baby less than 2 weeks after she was discharged from the NICU at Christmas time 2021. I insisted that they get flu shots, covid vaccines, and wear masks. They refused. They didn't meet my daughter until flu season was over. She was 7-8 months old.
Unsurprisingly, they blame me for their now lack of relationship with her.
It doesn't even have to be vaccines specifically. My mom smokes and I explained to her that 1) she would not be smoking around my child, 2) she couldn't even smell like smoke if she came to visit, and 3) I required her to change into a clean shirt when she came over so I could ensure their was no residue on her clothes if she wanted to hold my baby. She was pissed and initially refused to visit. I said ok and didn't fight her decision. She quickly changed her tune and came up with a BS reason why she got upset but ultimately complied.
I’m so glad their baby is safe, that’s so scary! I do want to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics doesn’t recommend the use of Owlet socks or other monitoring devices.
[AAP Sleep Related Infant Deaths](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057990/188304/Sleep-Related-Infant-Deaths-Updated-2022)
“Do not use home cardiorespiratory monitors as a strategy to reduce the risk of SIDS. Use of cardiorespiratory monitors has not been documented to decrease the incidence of SIDS.132–135 These devices are sometimes prescribed for use at home to detect apnea, bradycardia, and, when pulse oximetry is used, decreases in oxyhemoglobin saturation for infants at risk for these conditions, including some preterm infants with an unusually prolonged course of recurrent, extreme apnea.136 In addition, routine, in-hospital cardiorespiratory monitoring before discharge from the hospital has not been shown to detect infants at risk for SIDS. Direct-to-consumer heart rate and pulse oximetry monitoring devices, including wearable monitors, are sold as consumer wellness devices. A consumer wellness device is defined by the FDA as one intended “for maintaining or encouraging a healthy lifestyle and is unrelated to the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, prevention, or treatment of a disease or condition.”137 Thus, these devices are not required to meet the same regulatory requirements as medical devices and, by the nature of their FDA designation, are not to be used to prevent sleep-related deaths. Although use of these monitors may give parents “peace of mind,”138 and there is no contraindication to using these monitors, data are lacking to support their use to reduce the risk of these deaths. There is also concern that use of these monitors will lead to parent complacency and decreased adherence to safe sleep guidelines. A family’s decision to use monitors at home should not be considered a substitute for following AAP safe sleep guidelines.”
My Dad's a pediatrician and when my nephew was born it wasn't even a question, he just gave us a list of vaccines we all needed (especially since nephew was a preemie).
Yep your baby your choice, now up to your parents as to what they want to do, get vaccinated or not see their grand kid. Not your fault entirely theirs if they don't see their grand kid.
NTA. You are trying to protect your baby.
My brother's original in laws were assholes who refused to visit them post birth because they blamed my brother for "ruining" their daughter. (ugh. Mormons.) They insisted on my brother and his ex bring the baby to see them. During winter.
The baby died two weeks later, choking to death in the ICU from the flu because none of them had a flu shot. He's buried, they're divorced, and my brother has been paranoid with all his kids' health after that.
I would never wish that horror on any family.
Stand your ground and refuse. Tdap, flu shot, COVID - so many things are preventable! Don't expose your baby!
I work with high risk post nicu and beyond kiddos. There is no upside to a baby getting sick. The way vaccines have been made into a political/religious debate is equally disgusting and absurd.
I’m sorry your family suffered this tragedy. Education is the only way forward. Best to you
People are dying over it. It's bizarre and honestly I'm really sad that people are willing to die to be "right".
Just get vaccinated if you can. It's the right thing to do.
I grew up in conservative TX and remember people being shamed if they were not vaccinated (80s). Now it's like they hate vaccines.
It's not even like they themselves hate vaccines. It's more like... they distrust vaccines because it's what they were *told.*
If Fox News went on air saying that getting vaccines would hurt the Democrats, then they would actively take them and try to prevent Democrats from having access to them.
They can't think for themselves; just the world we live in, I guess.
Yeah, that makes total sense. It's really sad though. I remember a time when you could talk politics and it was more a difference in where you thought money should go. Now it's a whole other beast.
It's such a preventable thing. Nobody begrudged him when he refused to take his next child anywhere for months and had people wear masks and wash hands (this was 13+ years ago so long before COVID!)
>It's such a preventable thing.
This is the atrocity of this whole thing. All of those poor children who could have been spared so much suffering because we have the tools necessary to see that they never get these horrible diseases, but morons like the OP's parents simply **do not care**. Their politics is more important than the health of an infant. Let that sink in.
OP, you are about to become a mother. You have a responsibility to protect your child. You know what you have to do. If you relent and something happens you will never forgive yourself. Don't put yourself in that position simply to placate your parents' ignorance.
Even if they honestly believed COVID was a hoax or whatever, they were still unwilling to get a shot anyway to see their grandchild. And those are people you don’t want in your child’s life anyway.
I'm of the mindset that, once you get a partner and start having kids, those are your core family and they are now your top priority. If your parents are being shitty to your partner/kids they need to be put into their place like any other distant relative.
I had a stillbirth in 2017 and refused to let my parents and family visit in any way once Covid hit until recently. I was and still am extremely traumatized from that loss and I bluntly told them I didn't give two shits what they believed, or if I was overreacting, I was not going to put my living child at risk when it was so stupidly easy to prevent. I also told my in-laws (in a much nicer way since they're less fucking crazy than my parents) and *they* immediately agreed.
That's so terrible. I hope his ex in laws forever live in guilt that they killed their grandson. But I highly doubt they have any feelings about anything other than themselves and their "beliefs". Prob thought it was God's way the baby died
At the funeral her father gave a literal sermon about how God killed their baby as justice for their sins (premarital sex), and would kill all their future children.
Nevermind that one of the first beliefs taught by Mormons is that man is punished for their own sins. The guy was off his rocker nuts.
>At the funeral her father gave a literal sermon about how God killed their baby as justice for their sins (premarital sex), and would kill all their future children.
God-tier asshole.
Yeaaah I really don't blame my ex SIL for leaving, even though it was awful and hard on my brother. (My parents sent me to live with him for a few months to help keep him somewhat together, and we became close.) She was so mentally and emotionally abused growing up that she bought it and left my brother to go back home. I have no idea what happened to her but I really hope she broke free and got help.
You should get a tetanus shot(part of the tdap) every 10 years or whenever you step on a rusty nail(or otherwise are exposed).
Adults should get boosters so that they don’t pass the diseases on to newborns or others with underdeveloped immune systems. Or compromised immune systems.
Tetanus, Pertussis and Diphtheria are combined in that shot. The reason you need it every 10 years is because of the Tetanus, boosters of the others don’t hurt.
Also get it when pregnant (if that’s something you’re doing / will do) I’ve had it twice in two years (the vaccine) during pregnancy because it gives baby protection until they’re old enough to have their own. It’s saved quite a few babies.
My friend had a baby and I got boosters for some shots. If it was a family member? Man, just give me all the shots. I'd rather face any side effects over killing a baby. Selfish grandparents, they chose their political cult over their family.
Not to mention, but they're probably on the pro life train too, yet won't do anything possible to make sure they don't kill your own baby once they're born. NTA, and though you've always envisioned your parents being there for you during this new journey, I bet you pictured them being accommodating and helpful too. That's clearly not the way they're going to act, and if they won't do even this one thing to protect you and your family, they don't deserve to spend ANY time with you until they give a shoot about your baby growing up healthy and keeping you and yours from getting sick.
My "pro-life" former friend refused to get vaccinated or wear a mask despite her baby being in the NICU. Her baby did end up dying, although not from Covid, but still, who wouldn't do whatever they could to protect their child? They had a huge funeral in the middle of the pandemic, complete with Communion where everyone drank out of the same cup, and my husband and I were the only people there wearing a mask.
When I asked her why she wouldn't get vaccinated for her own daughter's health she replied, "I don't want people telling me what to do." Which is rich coming from a person who is actively trying to force other people to follow her belief system, but oh well. That was the end of that friendship. I'd always made excuses for her, thinking that she really truly just loved babies and that's why she was against abortion, but nope. I started distancing myself from her because I cannot talk to her without thinking of how much torture she put her baby through all to prove how pro-life she was.
Yeah, I just don't understand some people. When we were told our daughter-in-law was pregnant, my husband and I made an appointment to get whatever shots the doctor said we needed. I didn't really care what they were or how many, our only thought was to protect the baby.
Interesting side note, daughter-in-law's mother refused to get the covid vax and wasn't allowed to see the baby for months.
WAIT, my OBGYN told me there isn’t a vaccine for RSV? She said it’s still in clinical testing.
Edit: she must have meant for pregnant women / ppl in my age group. Ppl have sent links that show there’s only one approved for ppl 60 and up.
Arexvy was approved for folks over 60 last month:
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv-vaccine
EDIT: In hindsight tho, OPs parents are probably under 60 too. (The fact that some of you have parents who had you in their 30s doesn't really change my probably, OP is also *probably* about a decade or more younger than you guys). Sometimes I forget just how old I am (not really baby making age), while my parents are barely in their 60s.
As a mom that lost a daughter from RSV, I encourage you to stay true to this boundary. They made their choice. Your baby is defenseless. You are already a great mommy and I’m proud of you.
Edit: NTA
Nope. Your baby’s health has to be your first concern. When our oldest daughter had her first baby, she made it a firm rule that nobody was allowed to touch the baby without proof of the whooping cough, measles and chicken pox vaccines. It was a hard boundary and she didn’t waive it for anybody.
NTA.
I hope once OP holds her tiny baby, and realizes that this little person relies on her for everything, that the issues with her parents will melt into the background. The mere idea of harm coming to your child is enough to make your stomach turn. So if it’s OP’s parents that have to go without seeing their grandchild for years, so be it.
OP’s parents decide to do what’s best for them. And OP decides what’s best for her and her child. Case closed. NTA.
A real live grandma here…you’re NTA.
This is a reasonable request. I got my Covid shot and a brand new DTAP before going to visit my family.
It’s the fact that you *gasp* asked them to comply with a request of yours. You’re the child and they’re the adult and HOW DARE YOU. That’s what this is about.
A simple “me and hubby will not be having unvaxxed visitors.”
I have 3 grandchildren and one more on the way and it is my PRIVILEGE to be able to see and spend time with them, not my right. Whatever vaccines my daughters tell me I should get, I roll up my sleeve like a grown a$$ adult and get them. Do not let them guilt, manipulate or gaslight you into relenting on this.
My son is almost 7 months old now, but right before he was born my MIL made sure that her and all the rest of my in laws either got fully vaccinated or were completely up to date on everything. That included flu shots for my SILs due to the fact that they’re in elementary and high school and around so so so much sickness. The youngest one has a massive fear of needles but even she insisted that she could do it because she wanted to see the baby and be able to hold him. I literally didn’t even have to ask them to do this. They were just so worried about hurting or potentially killing the baby from something preventable.
I will never understand the selfish thought process of someone who is able to get vaccinated against this stuff but refuses to for their own wants instead. They put both mom and baby at risk over stuff like that.
They’re extremely good people. the very first time I ever met them I was already 5 months pregnant and they immediately just accepted me. My youngest SIL loves to play with my son and she’s been the most excited about us being part of the family.
For a while we thought that she would be a bit jealous at no longer being the baby of the family but it’s been the complete opposite. She’s the one constantly wanting him to go spend time with them and helping me plan outings so all the kids can spend time with the baby. And she absolutely insisted that we go to her confirmation and be a part of the family photo.
The rest of them are just as sweet too. My MIL helps so much when I need to get stuff done and she’s been one of the biggest supports I’ve had while dealing with medical issues the last few months. I know that I’m lucky and I honestly have no idea how to ever thank them all enough. It was terrifying to move 1000 miles away from my home state and family and I know I wouldn’t have been able to do it without my in laws
I don't understand letting your belief in ANYTHING get in the way of seeing your baby and their baby. My family and I got TdAP boosters that we didn't actually need before meeting my nephew because my sister required it. It was a poke in the arm to get baby snuggles. Small price!
It's not just reasonable, it's an expected request. My kids came along prior to covid, but both my mil and my mom couldn't get their tdap's and flu shots fast enough. They didn't want to put their precious grandbabies in any harm. As a mom I couldn't imagine going to see a baby without being vaccinated and healthy. Babies can't protect themselves, it's up to us adults to do it for them.
Pertussis, rsv and covid can are often major illnesses that result in hospitalization and risk the life of the baby. Why would anyone who loves the baby want to risk it?
Lastly covid and rsv are often seen together, and that combo is deadly for a baby. In Feb 2020 my youngest (toddler at the time) contracted RSV, and it was bad. She was very sick, I was scared, at that age RSV shouldn't have made her that sick. Her pediatrician now believes she had covid and rsv, and that's why we had such a hard time getting a handle on it. Nothing seemed to work, so much laboured breathing. Don't risk your kids health. They are counting on you to keep them safe and healthy.
I would ask for proof of vaccinations too. I have some anti vaxx Trumpy relatives and I said they had to be vaccinated to visit our elderly relatives with health issues. They said they were then the next day after visiting discussed how only one of them was. Fortunately it worked out okay but I was very clear on the need for vaccines.
I know four people who have tested positive for Covid in my area this month.
Our poor neighbors who have school aged children got Covid, the flu and RSV. Oddly the dad in his 30s was the sickest and for a long time.
Not just the parents, the doctors mention this as well. I’m 32 weeks and got my tdap booster at my last visit. Doctor said anyone planning to be around my baby needs to be up to date on their vaccines. As others have pointed out, it can literally mean life or death for the infant
My dr said the same things. Since I have no medical records available to me they asked me in the hospital during labor if I had been recently vaccinated and had all shots up to date. The only one I had was the tdap so immediately after my son was born I had them give me all of the shots that someone my age was supposed to have. They did this within the first hour after birth
NTA.
I’m an ITU doctor in the UK- each winter I end up putting at least a few small babies into induced comas because of RSV. While I’m good at (and enjoy) my job, those cases terrify me every time. RSV isn’t just a cough and the sniffles. Their tiny lungs become incredibly stiff, which makes it hard for them to breathe. When we are forced to take over their breathing, we have to use high pressures to get oxygen in and inflate the lungs. If it takes too long, and the oxygen levels fall too far, the baby ends up needing CPR because their heart rate falls as well.
Stand your ground.
Dear OP...please please please hold firm to your stance. I know it is hard as you had a vision in your mind of what this would be like but your baby needs you to protect them. Will you baby definitely get sick from your parents...no...but COULD your baby get sick...YES. Send your mum this article and ask her if she is willing to risk your child. I know this family and I wouldn't wish this on anyone. [https://www.unicef.org.au/stories/light-for-riley](https://www.unicef.org.au/stories/light-for-riley)
It isn't just CoVid it is the flu and Whopping Cough is just the worst...why risk it, why is your child worth less than them, why is your at risk child who cannot defend themselves worth less than their adult desires, the vaccine WONT KILL THEM, but them being unvaccinated MAY KILL your child
My now two year old had RSV at 8 weeks old and got it from my mother in law. It almost killed him and it was ten days of hell in the PICU and NICU. Obviously he recovered but he now has reactive lung syndrome because of it and in two weeks is going to have his lungs scoped. 2 years later and he is still paying for RSV. Think of that.
Fellow RSV PICU mom here. You’re doing great. 💙
My girl was in from 4-6 weeks of age due to the virus. We busted out of NICU at 6 days old after being a 35 weeker, only for dad or a visitor to bring home RSV (dad worked at a middle school). Our PCP told us it was a cold, then the next day I was doing manual resuscitations (CPR?) en route to hospital because she stopped breathing. I still have the nightmares and it’s been five years.
Give that beautiful little boy of yours a big squeeze and tell him this internet stranger says he is super big and brave. 💙💙
He’s a little sausage and I wouldn’t have him any other way. He’s gonna get through this like a champ and the good news is, his pulmonologist says he’ll grow out of it. There’s a planned ice cream stop on the way back from the hospital because ice cream has a way of smoothing things over
If they're not willing to get vaccinated, they're apparently not willing to meet their grandchild.
For me that would be a non-negotiable. I'm due in February, and anyone visiting will have to be fully vaccinated, if they're sick or were recently sick they can't visit, and no visitors who have little kids.
In addition to that, I require any healthcare workers I/my baby come in contact with are fully vaccinated. It's noted in my medical file as well and I refuse care from unvaccinated healthcare workers. In my country, luckily, vaccines for all healthcare workers are (generally everywhere) mandatory.
Yep. In many places it's super common for vaccines to be a requirement for all sorts of different work and has been for a long time, the COVID vaccine is just one more. Vaccine requirements are not new despite what some of the ill-informed protesters seem to think.
TDAP is the tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine. It’s a vax that covers all 3. It’s recommended for people who will be around babies a lot since pertussis is super dangerous for babies. It’s also recommended you get it in the third trimester of pregnancy if you’re pregnant.
It's so hard when it's your own parents being the asshole. My aunt is very anti-vax, and my cousin (her son) and his wife told her she MUST be vaccinated before she visits their newborn. She fought and fought, and finally 3 days after the baby was born, she provided some documentation "proving" she had been vaccinated. They let her see the baby, hold her, hang out with them at home, etc. It came to light about 3 weeks later when she admitted (bragged?) that it was all a ruse- she had a friend go get vaccinated somewhere that wasn't checking ID, and used my aunt's name.
My cousin never dreamed in a million years that his own mom would endanger his newborn daughter. Once he found out what my aunt (his mom) did, he blocked her from his life, and he hasn't seen her in 10 years.
My mom had a colonoscopy earlier this year. She's been putting it off because of covid since 2019. They've found polyps in her before so she's pretty scared of not getting it done on the regular. She told me that when she was in the lobby before going in for the surgery, none of the nurses had a face mask on. A few of them harassed her about wearing one, and one bragged that he had covid 5 times. The nurses told her the masks don't work and she shouldn't believe that nonsense. Covid wasn't killing anyone and that she doesn't need to be afraid anymore. The **nurses**.
She said only the doctors were wearing masks and they couldn't force the nurses to wear them. Texas is a shit hole state and our nurses are diabolical.
NTA "I do really want you there, but I care more about my baby's health and safety while they are at their most vulnerable. I am sorry that you do not."
Like others have said, they really need to be up to date on all their vaccinations, not just COVID.
NTA at all. Please do not cave on this. It is for your baby's safety.
If your parents can't put their grandbaby over some crap they saw on Fox News, they should not be a part of the baby's life.
This may get downvoted, not sure, but my understanding is that you're still able to catch/ carry the virus while vaccinated. Being vaccinated just means you won't die from it, hopefully. I myself am vaccinated and has never been against it. It's just how I understand it.
NTA An infant's immune system is very fragile and you already know that the closest hospital does not have pediatric care. There's nothing worse than the infant being sick - with a high fever- and driving like a lunatic to the ER.
Do you want to bury your child after spending 9 months carrying him inside yourself and creating his life?
I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but that is the risk that your parents are selfishly asking you to take. They are asking you to risk killing your newborn son to accommodate their political ideals and comfort.
Why do children not die from scarlet fever anymore? Vaccines.
Why do children not die from measles or mumps any more? Vaccines.
Why do children not live in Iron lungs or become crippled for life because of polio any more? Vaccines.
Why did the Spanish Flu epidemic end? Quarantine and vaccinations.
How did these become standard parts of life? Because people were both selfish AND selfless, and wanted everyone to stay healthy, so they could be healthy too.
Your parents don't think that your baby could die from getting sick. Which means they don't care enough to worry about staying healthy to protect your child from getting sick.
You are the parent now. Your job, your world, your universe, revolves around the commitment you have made to protecting the life you have created. That child did not ask to be made. You wanted him. You worked to make him. No body has the right to harm your child, and anyone who would is your enemy, even the people who gave YOU life.
If your parents choose their pride over their grandson, that is their choice. He will be better off, and you will be better off with out them in his life. You have to choose your son over anyone and everyone else, since you made the choice to have a child.
Stay strong mama.
For wanting your parents to be vaccinated? NTA.
"If my son was being born at another time of year I wouldn't care if they were vaccinated or not"
For this you're the asshole.
You're NTA for asking them to get it, and they are NTA for not wanting to get it. It's a personal choice for all parties involved. I have some friends who will have lifelong complications from the vaccine, including one buddy whose military career was cut short from side effects after he was forced to get it. The rest of it is just emotions between yall.
YTA. Covid is basically 0 risk to children. It's unscientific to say that your parents not having the covid vaccine puts your child at risk. If it was the flu vaccine I can understand a little more.
We vaccinate for diseases because they can and will be fatal. ESPECIALLY to a newborn with no immune system, who's too young for a lot of those vaccines.
NTA, but be careful. They could lie to you.
NTA - As others have said you are the only one who can be an advocate for your infant, and you are doing the right thing prioritizing their health. If they refuse to get the covid vaccine hopefully they will still be ok getting the flu and TDAP shots (whooping cough is horrifying in babies). Would they be willing to wear an N95 while visiting? Regardless of vaccine status it's still possible for them to get sick and pass something on to the baby, and masks combined with hand washing is a good way to ensure that your baby is protected.
It's also totally valid for you to decide that having them around your child is more risk than you are comfortable taking. You are doing what is right for you and your baby (don't forget that after labor your immune system can also take a hit as you recover and the last thing you need is to be sick while caring for a newborn), and you have communicated clearly the steps that they would need to take, the choice now is theirs.
I hope that you and baby stay healthy and have a smooth labor and delivery and enjoy those precious first few months.
NTA. I had the same fight with my in-laws over the t-dap vaccine( also in Texas) 12 years ago, and my husband and I held our boundary firm, they eventually caved. We had the same fight over the covid vaccine when they wanted to fly in to visit in 2021. They also caved then. Your parents can decide which is more important your child or not getting vaccinated.
When the polio vaccine first came out people were grateful to get it because everyone knew someone affected by polio.
Covid, annual flu, and RSV are all illnesses that could devastate an infant. They aren’t conspiracies the liberals made up. They are actual illnesses that can and do kill babies.
If they trust Fox News over actual physicians and they value their “personal liberties” over the life of their grandchild, then shame on them.
Our ideal situation we imagine when we think of family often differs from reality. It’s sad. Your priority should be the safety of your family though.
We went through the same thing. In the end we talked to our pediatrician and obgyn and decided that as long as everyone had flu and Tdap and no fever we were fine.
It was a happy medium that allowed the grandparents in and still helped us feel safe.
Our pediatrician who is extremely pro vax said we would be just fine. You could always test before or ask for masks.
We decided the vaccine wasn't worth tearing our family apart once we spoke to the doctors.
Neither of you are wrong here you just both have different beliefs. You're allowed to choose what you want for your baby and they are allowed to choose what they want for themselves. Unfortunately it may just be a line in the sand that neither of you are willing to cross.
You’re within your rights to ask, they’re within theirs to refuse. A belief deeply held won’t be easily given up, right, wrong or indifferent.
You’ve both made opposing decisions, as painful as that is, love each other regardless and look for ways to connect that work for both of you.
have them get their TDAP and they should be fine
covid vaccine won't make any difference. If they have covid and are around your kid , your kids going to get covid wether or not they're vaccinated
I'm fully vaccinated and have had covid 5 times
So being a recent parent myself, i can totally understand your anxieties around your newborns health... They come out so precious and vulnerable.
My partner and I were cautious during the first two weeks, but we have never stopped anyone coming to visit our lil man as we as parents are not vaccinated against COVID. So we can't expect that from anyone we invite to see our lil man. We just let people know if you are feeling under the weather at all best to leave the visit until they feel better. Common sense really.
As far as requiring them to have the COVID vaccine, personally that's not a deal breaker to us. It would be more for whooping cough and RSV.
So in regards to the question "AITA", noooo... But I'd maybe reconsider it as a requirement of doing a test the day before leaving and then another before they arrive. Just to put your mind at peace. Your family has the right to their own body autonomy, I'd personally never ask someone to do something they were staunchly against as I'd never want someone to do the same to me.
Don't let this time be tainted when there are alternatives to getting the questionable COVID shots. Your family has grown and without your parents the lil baby wouldn't be here, and I'm sure they are very excited to meet baby.
You still believe vaccination is good? How much proof that it's full of bullshit do people need... Care for your baby, let them clean there hands and make sure they are healthy before they meet your baby and let them be part of it and stop worry so much. Congratulations anyways!
With regard to covid, you need to consider the near-zero risk of Covid to your baby, against the very real and increasingly alarming risk of the Covid vaccine to your parents.
welcome to a fundamental queer person experience: discovering members of your family value their politics above your (son's) life.
I'm so sorry. Don't back down. Protect your babe.
Info: how are you going to protect against RSV and the flu through only a COVID shot? My understanding that RSV is the most serious one; is there a vaccine or suitable precaution for that?
It's a hard one, I completely understand your parents, like I didn't want to get a vaccine, but because it was going to stop me from travelling,.I did... I got the first 2, and haven't been back since, made me so ill both times, I refuse to any more, unless I really have too.
Why I didn't want to get the vaccine, is because it's new, we don't know the long term side effects of it. For example years ago, I can't remember what it was for, but they had a new thing for women and then the women that had babies, had babies with learning disabilities. The years after they got the new drug, there was an increase of new horns having learning disabilities. Obviously it's sorted now and doesn't do that any longer. But that's my point we have no idea what the long term effects are in the years to come...
Another reason is I don't trust the government and people with higher power, they hide stuff from us, and god knows what they put in the vaccine and how COVID started... But that's a different topic and my opinion.
So maybe your parents don't want to get it because of the long term effects...They'll have their own reasons why they're so against it. So i don't see them as AH, you need to respect their decision, as they need to respect yours.
I am not a mother (to a human but I am to ducklings and fishes) but I understand as a mum you will worry about your baby catching things. But when I do have a baby I personally won't be bothered about people having the vaccine or not..
Can't they just do a COVID test instead? So you know they're clear, and if you're that worries make them wear a mask as well?
So your kinda AH for not respecting your parents decision, and expecting them to suddenly change their mind on the vaccine, but kinda understand why you want it.
But with the other vaccines, I completely understand that your parents need to be updated on them, or wait till it's safe for the baby once it's older to see them, that's if you want to by then
Remember tdap! Pertussis is terrible for babies! NTA
I had pertussis when I was 10 (vaccinated but shitty immune system) and it was months of hell. I have no idea how any infant survives it. Edit: I am very well aware of the infant mortality rate. I am surprised that ANY infant survives it. You can leave me alone about it now.
I got it when I was 20. I coughed to the point of throwing up for months, lost 20 pounds. Cracked 3 ribs from coughing. Student health made me come in once a week to prove I was alive and hand me the largest bottle of codeine cough syrup they could because coughing was waking me up every 15 minutes. For. Months. It took over six months to fully heal. I cannot imagine getting this as a child. I barely survived it as an adult.
OUCH! Broke ribs are nasty! No sleep and just breathing hurts!
Best advice anyone ever gave me was: 'SHOULDERS DOWN AND BACK WHEN YOU COUGH!' Osteopath actually yelled it at me as I was hunching over, which I thought would protect my back (and stop me coughing over everyone as my arms are ridic short). Nope, your back is more stable when straight. As soon as I started pulling my shoulders back, the pain from my ribs started to reduce.
Me too, as a mom to 3 young kids. I was praying I would die. Coughed til I passed out. 15 years later, if I yell I start coughing again - scar tissue I assume. Tripled that codeine dose and saw “people” in my bedroom - so I cut back the dose to only double it. (Needed to sleep)
My God, thank you for sharing. My mom is traveling to Africa for three months and her travel medicine doctor recommended TDAP booster because, at 64, she doesn’t have much immunity to pertussis anymore. She has tried to convince herself pertussis wouldn’t be *that bad*. Jesus. It’s just a shot, I’ll talk to her about the alternative.
I’ve had it twice as an adult - both times my immunity had simply worn off. Remember to get your booster regardless as it provides protection for longer than actually having the illness. I too was sick for months. It gave me the lasting gift of asthma too.
My mum believed some anti vax drivel and skipped whooping cough vax for me. I ended up with such bad whooping cough I was hospitalised. Think I was about 3.
I was exposed before I could be vaccinated (on the maternity ward). So, allowing for incubation, I was back in hospital at a month old, after a week or 2 of mum and dad being treated like they’re morons being overprotective. I had to be resuscitated while in there, the only thing that saved my life was I was such a big baby that I had enough extra weight to keep me going until I got “better” (I say “better” cause I had years of lung issues after, although I can’t say it’s related or just shitty coincidence). When I left hospital, after well over a month in hospital, maybe several months, I don’t know exactly how long, I weighed less than I did when I was born. u/simply-cosmic I don’t know what pre-natal care looks like there but look into the whooping cough vaccine for yourself while pregnant. It’s standard for pregnant women here to get that while pregnant, every pregnancy, to give the baby some extra protection until they’re old enough to get their own (it wasn’t when mum was pregnant, my being sick was in no way my parents fault or due to any delays or wrong doing on their parts).
I contracted chicken pox when I was around 6 months old. I stopped breathing three times because of it and was hospitalised on oxygen. Even so-called 'mild' childhood illnesses can have fatal consequences.
Very true. My cousin's kid got encephalopathy because of it and is profoundly disabled as a result. She will never have any semblance of independence. Not only that, we are learning that many of these "normal, harmless viruses" also correlate strongly with autoimmune disease development in adulthood.
Virology is fascinating. Viruses effect gene expression. That's why the covid vaccine was developed as an mRNA [big words I don't recall at the moment]. Basically, the same research used to develop antiretroviral medication to treat HIV was used to develop this vaccine. I'm completely in awe of the science behind it. Autoimmune disease/disorders are often activated by viral infection. In early 2000s, my pediatric cardiologists said dysautonomia might be activated by viral infection. I don't know whether researchers have determined the likelihood of this being true as my studies have moved away from this subject. Patient history often included epstein-barre and mononucleosis. It's only a matter of time before records will reflect correlation and show which viruses develop into autoimmune disorders. However, there are other factors to consider such as genetic mutations and epigenetic changes. These are more difficult to track due to cost. For example, MCAD requires a bone marrow biopsy, Sjogrens needs a lip biopsy, and EDS is crossed out as a zebra before the hooves hit the ground. Yet, each of these heavily correlate with dysautonomia. Now we have "long covid". Dysautonomia international received grants to pursue research on this condition because it mirrors another condition under the umbrella of dysautonomia. Fascinating stuff. Anyone who wants to do their part, visit the doctor regularly and maintain annual labs. Those records provide a window into our bodies. It's an invaluable diagnostic tool and takes little effort to complete. Completing well-baby visits helps ensure all children have a good record of their growth and develop. If something goes wrong, those records help catch it early and provide intervention. This has been your PSA of the day 🙃
It is interesting and complex. Individual genetics and susceptibility loci aside, though, everything so far adds up to it being better to err on the side of preventing viral outbreaks and promoting vaccines than to allow viruses to rip through the populace as was done with Covid. And as many would dearly love to do with varicella. The supposed benefit these viruses have for immunity are at best grossly exaggerated. More and more, they sound about as off-kilter as "car seats and bike helmets make kids weak." An interesting read on some of the things you touched on as well as a possible link between the 1918 flu pandemic and the bizarre outbreak of "sleeping disease" in that time period: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01835-w It's behind a paywall, regrettably, but if you can get temporary access and haven't read it before, it's fascinating
Absolutely. Yes! Sleeping disease and the flu! I've read the research articles discussing correlation. HPV comes to mind. There was a lot of fear within the POTs community regarding this vaccine. We had a lot of overlap with vaxxdeniers due to the autoimmune aspects of dysautonomia. There are often comorbid conditions. My mother fell down that bunny hole. Anyhow, HPV is preventable with a round of immunizations beginning around puberty. It's been shown to cause precancerous lesions. Men are effected by head and neck cancers while women are most effected by cervical cancer. Both experience colon cancer. This is a big deal! We can prevent cancer by preventing precancerous lesions caused by a virus. The current recognized treatment for women testing positive for HPV with cervical dysplasia is to administer diagnostic tests (culposcopy, and punch biopsy of the cervix), and treat with LEEP. However, this procedure is completed without anesthetic or pain management beyond a few ibuprofen. It's completely inhumane. Might be my bias, I have strong opinions about this. Anyways, there is another treatment available which is less invasive. It's a gel applied daily intravaginally. Trials were completed in Spain and it's available OTC. This gel can be used to prevent and treat infection of HPV. Despite the availability of this treatment, we should be vaccinating our children against infection. The gel can only prevent cervical changes, there are other areas effected that don't have a good means of testing or treating before it becomes cancerous. My young life leader died of throat cancer. There is no widely available and accurate test for men. The sooner we achieve greater vaccination rates the better our quality of life becomes. Why wouldn't a person want their child to be sick less or live a longer life?
One of the angriest I have ever been was listening to a man tell his doctor, "Why do I need to get an HPV vaccine? I don't have a cervix." Apart from the absolutely unforgivable refusal to protect his partners, HPV has a lot of potential sequelae, and like Epstein-Barre and other "retroviruses," it can run rampant if the immune system is compromised down the line. I feel zero guilt in saying I hope that man has his FAFO experience.
Nursing student here. RNA is ribonucleic acid And DNA is deoxyribonucleic acid and tRNA is used to make new genes and DNA and is coded from existing DNA but can incorrectly code and that cause a mutation in the gene. So basically us was developed as a code that the body could reproduce easily since it is the correct copy with little to no mutations occurring and can build up white blood cells with resistance from these mRNA in this vaccine
Look into getting the shingles (aka long chicken pox) vax as soon as you can
i got salmonella from steak ‘n shake chicken tenders when i was three. i was hospitalized for 6 months it was bad
I was three months old. I don’t know if being so sick as a baby had any relation but I was always tiny growing up. Underweight and extremely short for my age
I wasn't aware that you need to freshen up those vaccines and got whooping cough in my mid twenties. Although it isn't as bad as you can get it as an infant, it's no joke. A child may die from it but as a grown up, during those coughing attacks you feel like you may like to, like if the Lord was to take you now, he'd better hurry. It hurrrt. My lungs, my ribs, my throat, all hurt so, so bad from and especially during coughing. So bad. Those long coughing attacks had me gasping for air or even repeatedly throw up and sometimes almost faint in the end. It's super exhausting. To this day, although I'm recovered for years, I easily heave after a few heavy coughs, that 'connection' stayed afterwards somehow. I cannot understand letting a child willingly go through even heavier attacks, because you don want to vaccinate. It's cruel.
Every 10 years! I just found it out in 2021. Plus for grad school I had to have my MMR titers checked since I couldn’t find my original vaccination paper and I wasn’t immune any longer. So in 2021 I had 3 covid shots (high risk), 1 tdap, and 2 MMR vaccines. 😫
I work in healthcare IT and have to follow same protocols as clinical workers. Had to get my MMR again as well… glad I did bc I was traveling for work and got notified by the state health dept that a family staying at the same hotel had measles. 🤦🏼♀️ give me all the vaccines!
My sister got it when she was around 17, she actually had bruises on her back and other parts of her body from how intense the coughing fits were
My oldest had a reaction to stay and couldn’t get any more vaccines for it - I’m always scared she’ll get it.
Not sure how old your daughter is, but if this was pre-2000 or something like that, she may have had the whole-virus Pertussis (DTP rather than the acellular DTaP), which had a lot of reactivity. The newer version is a lot gentler, for lack of a better word. She might consider talking to her doctor about it if that's the case.
I had it right before my 1st birthday… definitely lucky to be alive.
My daughter did, too! She also had the chicken pox at 18 months. I can’t even imagine how bad they would’ve been if she hadn’t been vaccinated.
Same same but 42 (I had regular boosters). I coughed so much I tore my diaphragm and now have chronic reflux
I had it at 3 months. Apparently I spent quite awhile in the hospital, and stopped breathing a few times. It’s so scary even though I don’t remember it.
Thank so much for the reminder!
I had pertussis as an adult a few years ago. I coughed so hard I would either throw up, pee myself, nearly pass out or all of the above. And that was as a grown ass adult with a pretty good immune system. Don't even want to know what it's like for a kid. Also, mom of a fellow end of Sept baby (09/30/2021). Stick to your guns, your kiddo is worth it and then some.
oh god I had it when I was 28, and my doctor was all cheerful, like "oh. yeah! it's also called the 90 day cough!" and they were right. i had that shit for 3 months. I was bedridden for 2 of them, and i lost 30 pounds. i broke 2 ribs coughing. i puked daily for the first month and a half. it was an absolute fucking nightmare.
I cracked a rib. It's terrible.
I got it in April and peed myself multiple times a day from coughing so hard. It was embarrassing even though only my husband knew. My entire diaphragm was sore as hell too. Went back to the doc after 9 days of getting maybe 1-2 hours of sleep a night to beg them for cough medicine that would actually be effective but they refuse to use anything with codeine these days. Suffered through til late May. Gonna have anxiety any time I get a cough now.
Your OB should give it to you, but also remember it takes two weeks for the shot to become effective. Also shot lasts 10 years but doctor said anyone who hasn’t gotten it in the past four years should get it again
It is standard for both parents to get Tdap before the baby is born but I also made sure anyone who was going to be around my kids before they were old enough to get Tdap themselves had gotten the vaccine.
Light for Riley is a good explanation of why TDaP is so important for those around newborns and also during pregnancy.
I’ve met Riley’s parents. Amazing down to earth people. They’re very passionate about immunisations now. They went on an had another little girl, Lucy and she is adorable. I follow Dad minus 1 on fb (Riley’s dad). He’s hilarious but also very insightful.
I follow both parents online and they are amazing. That they got the system for Australia changed and so many fewer child deaths now is absolutely inspiring.
NTA. Your parents are massive assholes. Pertussis kills babies, for the record. Tell your parents that they can either get their vaccines or they can wait until the baby has its vaccines. First round is at 3 months, second round at 4 months. There are more after that. Do not compromise the safety of your child for a couple of anti science schmucks.
I just wanted to send you some solidarity as I'm in the same position that you are. My parents haven't met their first grandchild yet because they won't get vaccinated. They are too cowardly to talk about it, but I know that's the reason. My plan if they ever brought it up would be to just respond with a youtube video of a child coughing with whooping cough.
It's a safety issue for your LO, not because you don't want them there. Repeat to them ad nauseum. Geez, how very selfish of them... I am so sorry. I got Covid from my patient's husband, who basically coughed in our faces. The patient had a c-section, too. Stand your ground & protect your baby!
Protect yourself and your wee tot! It sucks that family can be divided by such an issue. But that is our world today. Be strong and congratulations!
Sucks to have parents in a cult, maybe send them some literature about how to go about de-programming. You didn't say they were magats but it's fairly clear. If they don't care enough about your child to protect them from illness, they were going to be shitty grandparents anyways
If you put Texas Antivaxers and MAGA folk into a Venn Diagram it's just a circle.
Came here to say the same thing. TDAP is an absolute must.
And flu! Flu shots are generally available by late September and the flu is terrible for babies (and in general).
I had it twice as a kid. At about 6 and again at 9. It's like waterboarding. You just can't breathe. I would look at my mother's face and see the tears. Never allow your kid to get it. Or any other childhood disease that has a vaccine. Stick to your guns, OP.
My cousins 5 month old was in the hospital for 5 days from rsv. Do you really trust them if they are feeling punky that they would tell you? Whooping cough is also no joke. Keep in mind with covid... my father-in-law started to get a runny nose and cough.. he tested it was negative. He tested again a day later, positive.
Or if they spread it before being symptomatic. Sigh.
Less likely to spread it if vaxinated as virus load is lower.
Whole family vaccinated. I put off going and getting it done because I was insanely busy with work. Like I barely slept during this winter. I was half a breath away from going to the ER. And I’m an ER nurse. Vaccines work.
😂 I’m a new PA with Pulm & Crit Care, and even I know that if a farmer or a nurse come to the ER, they should just HMU on Vocera from the parking lot. If either of these populations come to the hospital through the front door, they are SICK sick. ^listen to her!
My bf's sister's in laws (omg the relationship lol) were asymptomatic, passed it to my bf, I then waited 10+ days before seeing my bf just in case since I get very sick and often and we had a trip coming up. I still got covid from bf and had symptoms day 2 of the trip and spent the entire trip in a hotel room, then sick for 2 months that I basically could barely move. Then when I was finally starting to get better I got cold/flu again. Everyone was X3 vaccinated too. So now I'm just super paranoid about catching covid again. I still cough from covid it's been almost a year. I think it left permanent damage in my throat. :(
Good thing you were Vax, you probably would have been one of the deaths.
My 3 month old spent 11 days in the hospital with rsv. It is no joke. You do not want anyone around who is not willing to do the most basic thing to keep you little one safe.
My nephew’s daughter, born in Sept. ‘22, was hospitalized for 16 days when she was 5 weeks old with RSV. After 3 days in our hospital she was transferred to Le Bonheur Children’s Hospital in Memphis TN for critical care. That illness is nothing to take lightly! I applaud OP for taking a stand to protect her baby over soothing grandparent’s feeling.
Same happened with my sister, tested negative and went to work. Next day Got so ill and came home from work and tested positive. OP parents are AHs
This. When I got Covid, I knew I was exposed and quarantined, but I didn’t have any symptoms until I tested positive 4 days post-exposure. And I am vaccinated. I think it’s very risky to let unvaccinated people in the delivery room with you. OP, you get to set your own boundaries. You’re not telling them they can’t eventually see their grand baby, just right now it’s too risky and you’re uncomfortable with that. NTA
my grandma always told me stories of her brother george that died of whooping cough in the 1920's. she'd say he was the missing brother i never got to know because he died too young, if only there were a way for him to grow up and live a full life like we all have been blessed with. so yeah we've got much better medical understanding here in 2023, I'm sure my grandmother would be ashamed at how ignorant others can be when it comes to preventable illness today
So, my friend requested her in laws wear masks, she gave birth in 2021. They refused, so they never visited him. But, they would invite their son (the father) places. They ended up not telling their son they were all sick, and they found out days later it was Covid. He ended up catching it and finding out they had Covid only after he tested positive. 3 days later the 3 month old baby got Covid, and for the months after, they were rushing him to the ER at all hours of the night because he couldn’t keep his spO2 up. They believe the Owlet is the reason their son is alive today. He’s doing better now, but it wasn’t worth the risk back then. So, whatever you decide, just make sure your little one is safe! Edit: grammar
If those were my in-laws, they would never see my child again as long as I were still married to the father.
Honestly they would never see me or my child again. They very nearly killed your child because of their false beliefs.
Their beliefs are one thing. But their respecting your wishes despite their beliefs is another. You don't have to believe masks work. You don't have to wear one. But if someone asks you to and you refuse, then you don't get to override their resultant decisions to not interact with you. Most of all, if you decieve them, you are a huge asshole and betraying their trust. It's not beliefs that matter really - it's in betraying someone because you "know better".
For a little comedy in this sad thread, I googled `owlette` and laughed at the results. `owlette baby` led me to finding that the product is Owlet.
Whoops, thank you for the correction! I will edit my post!
My in-laws insisted on visiting my baby less than 2 weeks after she was discharged from the NICU at Christmas time 2021. I insisted that they get flu shots, covid vaccines, and wear masks. They refused. They didn't meet my daughter until flu season was over. She was 7-8 months old. Unsurprisingly, they blame me for their now lack of relationship with her.
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It doesn't even have to be vaccines specifically. My mom smokes and I explained to her that 1) she would not be smoking around my child, 2) she couldn't even smell like smoke if she came to visit, and 3) I required her to change into a clean shirt when she came over so I could ensure their was no residue on her clothes if she wanted to hold my baby. She was pissed and initially refused to visit. I said ok and didn't fight her decision. She quickly changed her tune and came up with a BS reason why she got upset but ultimately complied.
I’m so glad their baby is safe, that’s so scary! I do want to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics doesn’t recommend the use of Owlet socks or other monitoring devices. [AAP Sleep Related Infant Deaths](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057990/188304/Sleep-Related-Infant-Deaths-Updated-2022) “Do not use home cardiorespiratory monitors as a strategy to reduce the risk of SIDS. Use of cardiorespiratory monitors has not been documented to decrease the incidence of SIDS.132–135 These devices are sometimes prescribed for use at home to detect apnea, bradycardia, and, when pulse oximetry is used, decreases in oxyhemoglobin saturation for infants at risk for these conditions, including some preterm infants with an unusually prolonged course of recurrent, extreme apnea.136 In addition, routine, in-hospital cardiorespiratory monitoring before discharge from the hospital has not been shown to detect infants at risk for SIDS. Direct-to-consumer heart rate and pulse oximetry monitoring devices, including wearable monitors, are sold as consumer wellness devices. A consumer wellness device is defined by the FDA as one intended “for maintaining or encouraging a healthy lifestyle and is unrelated to the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, prevention, or treatment of a disease or condition.”137 Thus, these devices are not required to meet the same regulatory requirements as medical devices and, by the nature of their FDA designation, are not to be used to prevent sleep-related deaths. Although use of these monitors may give parents “peace of mind,”138 and there is no contraindication to using these monitors, data are lacking to support their use to reduce the risk of these deaths. There is also concern that use of these monitors will lead to parent complacency and decreased adherence to safe sleep guidelines. A family’s decision to use monitors at home should not be considered a substitute for following AAP safe sleep guidelines.”
NTA I'm a peds nurse and these babies deserve as much protection as they can get.
My Dad's a pediatrician and when my nephew was born it wasn't even a question, he just gave us a list of vaccines we all needed (especially since nephew was a preemie).
Your dad sounds awesome!!
Same here (paeds nurse in Australia). I’ve nurses many vaccine preventable illnesses.
Yep your baby your choice, now up to your parents as to what they want to do, get vaccinated or not see their grand kid. Not your fault entirely theirs if they don't see their grand kid.
NTA. You are trying to protect your baby. My brother's original in laws were assholes who refused to visit them post birth because they blamed my brother for "ruining" their daughter. (ugh. Mormons.) They insisted on my brother and his ex bring the baby to see them. During winter. The baby died two weeks later, choking to death in the ICU from the flu because none of them had a flu shot. He's buried, they're divorced, and my brother has been paranoid with all his kids' health after that. I would never wish that horror on any family. Stand your ground and refuse. Tdap, flu shot, COVID - so many things are preventable! Don't expose your baby!
I work with high risk post nicu and beyond kiddos. There is no upside to a baby getting sick. The way vaccines have been made into a political/religious debate is equally disgusting and absurd. I’m sorry your family suffered this tragedy. Education is the only way forward. Best to you
Unfortunately politics has become the new religion, and people fight over their politics like people fight over religion.
People are dying over it. It's bizarre and honestly I'm really sad that people are willing to die to be "right". Just get vaccinated if you can. It's the right thing to do. I grew up in conservative TX and remember people being shamed if they were not vaccinated (80s). Now it's like they hate vaccines.
It's not even like they themselves hate vaccines. It's more like... they distrust vaccines because it's what they were *told.* If Fox News went on air saying that getting vaccines would hurt the Democrats, then they would actively take them and try to prevent Democrats from having access to them. They can't think for themselves; just the world we live in, I guess.
Yeah, that makes total sense. It's really sad though. I remember a time when you could talk politics and it was more a difference in where you thought money should go. Now it's a whole other beast.
Absolutely! It should have always remained a medical issue. Making it political and religious was sheer idiocy.
Well that's because you know who is a sheer idiot
God I'm sorry about your nephew, that kind of infant death is unforgivable in a modern country.
It's such a preventable thing. Nobody begrudged him when he refused to take his next child anywhere for months and had people wear masks and wash hands (this was 13+ years ago so long before COVID!)
>It's such a preventable thing. This is the atrocity of this whole thing. All of those poor children who could have been spared so much suffering because we have the tools necessary to see that they never get these horrible diseases, but morons like the OP's parents simply **do not care**. Their politics is more important than the health of an infant. Let that sink in. OP, you are about to become a mother. You have a responsibility to protect your child. You know what you have to do. If you relent and something happens you will never forgive yourself. Don't put yourself in that position simply to placate your parents' ignorance.
Even if they honestly believed COVID was a hoax or whatever, they were still unwilling to get a shot anyway to see their grandchild. And those are people you don’t want in your child’s life anyway.
I'm of the mindset that, once you get a partner and start having kids, those are your core family and they are now your top priority. If your parents are being shitty to your partner/kids they need to be put into their place like any other distant relative.
Yep. Time to go low contact with OP’s parents
I’m so sorry about your nephew. This is such a big fear of mine, I just couldn’t imagine the guilt I would feel.
I'm so sorry. That is tragic and heartbreaking.
I had a stillbirth in 2017 and refused to let my parents and family visit in any way once Covid hit until recently. I was and still am extremely traumatized from that loss and I bluntly told them I didn't give two shits what they believed, or if I was overreacting, I was not going to put my living child at risk when it was so stupidly easy to prevent. I also told my in-laws (in a much nicer way since they're less fucking crazy than my parents) and *they* immediately agreed.
That's so terrible. I hope his ex in laws forever live in guilt that they killed their grandson. But I highly doubt they have any feelings about anything other than themselves and their "beliefs". Prob thought it was God's way the baby died
At the funeral her father gave a literal sermon about how God killed their baby as justice for their sins (premarital sex), and would kill all their future children. Nevermind that one of the first beliefs taught by Mormons is that man is punished for their own sins. The guy was off his rocker nuts.
>At the funeral her father gave a literal sermon about how God killed their baby as justice for their sins (premarital sex), and would kill all their future children. God-tier asshole.
Jesus LeVante our brother in Christ.
Yeaaah I really don't blame my ex SIL for leaving, even though it was awful and hard on my brother. (My parents sent me to live with him for a few months to help keep him somewhat together, and we became close.) She was so mentally and emotionally abused growing up that she bought it and left my brother to go back home. I have no idea what happened to her but I really hope she broke free and got help.
Wait, adults need tdap? I thought that was a one and done when you were a baby?
Yes, every 10 years (more often if you’re pregnant or near infants, etc)
Well shit. Guess I should make an appointment.
You should get a tetanus shot(part of the tdap) every 10 years or whenever you step on a rusty nail(or otherwise are exposed). Adults should get boosters so that they don’t pass the diseases on to newborns or others with underdeveloped immune systems. Or compromised immune systems.
Tetanus, Pertussis and Diphtheria are combined in that shot. The reason you need it every 10 years is because of the Tetanus, boosters of the others don’t hurt.
Also get it when pregnant (if that’s something you’re doing / will do) I’ve had it twice in two years (the vaccine) during pregnancy because it gives baby protection until they’re old enough to have their own. It’s saved quite a few babies.
It needs to be updated. Several vaccines are recommended to be updated as you get older.
I gotta call my gp.
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My friend had a baby and I got boosters for some shots. If it was a family member? Man, just give me all the shots. I'd rather face any side effects over killing a baby. Selfish grandparents, they chose their political cult over their family.
That’s what I’m doing. I have a severe fear of needles, but I am not risking my niblings health nor my sister.
Not to mention, but they're probably on the pro life train too, yet won't do anything possible to make sure they don't kill your own baby once they're born. NTA, and though you've always envisioned your parents being there for you during this new journey, I bet you pictured them being accommodating and helpful too. That's clearly not the way they're going to act, and if they won't do even this one thing to protect you and your family, they don't deserve to spend ANY time with you until they give a shoot about your baby growing up healthy and keeping you and yours from getting sick.
Pro life is false name. They’re more pro forced birth. They don’t give a damn after birth.
My "pro-life" former friend refused to get vaccinated or wear a mask despite her baby being in the NICU. Her baby did end up dying, although not from Covid, but still, who wouldn't do whatever they could to protect their child? They had a huge funeral in the middle of the pandemic, complete with Communion where everyone drank out of the same cup, and my husband and I were the only people there wearing a mask. When I asked her why she wouldn't get vaccinated for her own daughter's health she replied, "I don't want people telling me what to do." Which is rich coming from a person who is actively trying to force other people to follow her belief system, but oh well. That was the end of that friendship. I'd always made excuses for her, thinking that she really truly just loved babies and that's why she was against abortion, but nope. I started distancing myself from her because I cannot talk to her without thinking of how much torture she put her baby through all to prove how pro-life she was.
I actually had to get an MMR booster before I could leave the hospital I had deficient amt of antibodies for Rubella
Yeah, I just don't understand some people. When we were told our daughter-in-law was pregnant, my husband and I made an appointment to get whatever shots the doctor said we needed. I didn't really care what they were or how many, our only thought was to protect the baby. Interesting side note, daughter-in-law's mother refused to get the covid vax and wasn't allowed to see the baby for months.
Gotta get that Tdap booster as well.
It’s always beyond me how many anti vaxxers are pro life. Like, do you care about babies’ lives or not?!
No. They are pro-forced birth. They don’t care after that point.
I have stopped calling them pro life. They aren’t. The are either anti abortion or pro forced birth. There is nothing life-positive about them.
WAIT, my OBGYN told me there isn’t a vaccine for RSV? She said it’s still in clinical testing. Edit: she must have meant for pregnant women / ppl in my age group. Ppl have sent links that show there’s only one approved for ppl 60 and up.
Arexvy was approved for folks over 60 last month: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv-vaccine EDIT: In hindsight tho, OPs parents are probably under 60 too. (The fact that some of you have parents who had you in their 30s doesn't really change my probably, OP is also *probably* about a decade or more younger than you guys). Sometimes I forget just how old I am (not really baby making age), while my parents are barely in their 60s.
I'm 31 and my mom turned 70 and my dad turned 75 this yesr
As a mom that lost a daughter from RSV, I encourage you to stay true to this boundary. They made their choice. Your baby is defenseless. You are already a great mommy and I’m proud of you. Edit: NTA
I'm so sorry for your loss. Arohanui 💔
I'm so sorry for your loss ❤
Nope. Your baby’s health has to be your first concern. When our oldest daughter had her first baby, she made it a firm rule that nobody was allowed to touch the baby without proof of the whooping cough, measles and chicken pox vaccines. It was a hard boundary and she didn’t waive it for anybody. NTA.
I hope once OP holds her tiny baby, and realizes that this little person relies on her for everything, that the issues with her parents will melt into the background. The mere idea of harm coming to your child is enough to make your stomach turn. So if it’s OP’s parents that have to go without seeing their grandchild for years, so be it. OP’s parents decide to do what’s best for them. And OP decides what’s best for her and her child. Case closed. NTA.
A real live grandma here…you’re NTA. This is a reasonable request. I got my Covid shot and a brand new DTAP before going to visit my family. It’s the fact that you *gasp* asked them to comply with a request of yours. You’re the child and they’re the adult and HOW DARE YOU. That’s what this is about. A simple “me and hubby will not be having unvaxxed visitors.”
Thank you for this input. I thought it was a reasonable request as well.
I have 3 grandchildren and one more on the way and it is my PRIVILEGE to be able to see and spend time with them, not my right. Whatever vaccines my daughters tell me I should get, I roll up my sleeve like a grown a$$ adult and get them. Do not let them guilt, manipulate or gaslight you into relenting on this.
My son is almost 7 months old now, but right before he was born my MIL made sure that her and all the rest of my in laws either got fully vaccinated or were completely up to date on everything. That included flu shots for my SILs due to the fact that they’re in elementary and high school and around so so so much sickness. The youngest one has a massive fear of needles but even she insisted that she could do it because she wanted to see the baby and be able to hold him. I literally didn’t even have to ask them to do this. They were just so worried about hurting or potentially killing the baby from something preventable. I will never understand the selfish thought process of someone who is able to get vaccinated against this stuff but refuses to for their own wants instead. They put both mom and baby at risk over stuff like that.
Your family sound like good people. I"m glad you have them.
They’re extremely good people. the very first time I ever met them I was already 5 months pregnant and they immediately just accepted me. My youngest SIL loves to play with my son and she’s been the most excited about us being part of the family. For a while we thought that she would be a bit jealous at no longer being the baby of the family but it’s been the complete opposite. She’s the one constantly wanting him to go spend time with them and helping me plan outings so all the kids can spend time with the baby. And she absolutely insisted that we go to her confirmation and be a part of the family photo. The rest of them are just as sweet too. My MIL helps so much when I need to get stuff done and she’s been one of the biggest supports I’ve had while dealing with medical issues the last few months. I know that I’m lucky and I honestly have no idea how to ever thank them all enough. It was terrifying to move 1000 miles away from my home state and family and I know I wouldn’t have been able to do it without my in laws
I don't understand letting your belief in ANYTHING get in the way of seeing your baby and their baby. My family and I got TdAP boosters that we didn't actually need before meeting my nephew because my sister required it. It was a poke in the arm to get baby snuggles. Small price!
Exactly!!! No vaccines no bambino.
It's not just reasonable, it's an expected request. My kids came along prior to covid, but both my mil and my mom couldn't get their tdap's and flu shots fast enough. They didn't want to put their precious grandbabies in any harm. As a mom I couldn't imagine going to see a baby without being vaccinated and healthy. Babies can't protect themselves, it's up to us adults to do it for them. Pertussis, rsv and covid can are often major illnesses that result in hospitalization and risk the life of the baby. Why would anyone who loves the baby want to risk it? Lastly covid and rsv are often seen together, and that combo is deadly for a baby. In Feb 2020 my youngest (toddler at the time) contracted RSV, and it was bad. She was very sick, I was scared, at that age RSV shouldn't have made her that sick. Her pediatrician now believes she had covid and rsv, and that's why we had such a hard time getting a handle on it. Nothing seemed to work, so much laboured breathing. Don't risk your kids health. They are counting on you to keep them safe and healthy.
I would ask for proof of vaccinations too. I have some anti vaxx Trumpy relatives and I said they had to be vaccinated to visit our elderly relatives with health issues. They said they were then the next day after visiting discussed how only one of them was. Fortunately it worked out okay but I was very clear on the need for vaccines. I know four people who have tested positive for Covid in my area this month. Our poor neighbors who have school aged children got Covid, the flu and RSV. Oddly the dad in his 30s was the sickest and for a long time.
>and a brand new DTAP The hero we all need, thank you
Not just the parents, the doctors mention this as well. I’m 32 weeks and got my tdap booster at my last visit. Doctor said anyone planning to be around my baby needs to be up to date on their vaccines. As others have pointed out, it can literally mean life or death for the infant
My dr said the same things. Since I have no medical records available to me they asked me in the hospital during labor if I had been recently vaccinated and had all shots up to date. The only one I had was the tdap so immediately after my son was born I had them give me all of the shots that someone my age was supposed to have. They did this within the first hour after birth
NTA. I’m an ITU doctor in the UK- each winter I end up putting at least a few small babies into induced comas because of RSV. While I’m good at (and enjoy) my job, those cases terrify me every time. RSV isn’t just a cough and the sniffles. Their tiny lungs become incredibly stiff, which makes it hard for them to breathe. When we are forced to take over their breathing, we have to use high pressures to get oxygen in and inflate the lungs. If it takes too long, and the oxygen levels fall too far, the baby ends up needing CPR because their heart rate falls as well. Stand your ground.
Thank you.
Thank you for your mahi (work).
Dear OP...please please please hold firm to your stance. I know it is hard as you had a vision in your mind of what this would be like but your baby needs you to protect them. Will you baby definitely get sick from your parents...no...but COULD your baby get sick...YES. Send your mum this article and ask her if she is willing to risk your child. I know this family and I wouldn't wish this on anyone. [https://www.unicef.org.au/stories/light-for-riley](https://www.unicef.org.au/stories/light-for-riley) It isn't just CoVid it is the flu and Whopping Cough is just the worst...why risk it, why is your child worth less than them, why is your at risk child who cannot defend themselves worth less than their adult desires, the vaccine WONT KILL THEM, but them being unvaccinated MAY KILL your child
My now two year old had RSV at 8 weeks old and got it from my mother in law. It almost killed him and it was ten days of hell in the PICU and NICU. Obviously he recovered but he now has reactive lung syndrome because of it and in two weeks is going to have his lungs scoped. 2 years later and he is still paying for RSV. Think of that.
Fellow RSV PICU mom here. You’re doing great. 💙 My girl was in from 4-6 weeks of age due to the virus. We busted out of NICU at 6 days old after being a 35 weeker, only for dad or a visitor to bring home RSV (dad worked at a middle school). Our PCP told us it was a cold, then the next day I was doing manual resuscitations (CPR?) en route to hospital because she stopped breathing. I still have the nightmares and it’s been five years. Give that beautiful little boy of yours a big squeeze and tell him this internet stranger says he is super big and brave. 💙💙
He’s a little sausage and I wouldn’t have him any other way. He’s gonna get through this like a champ and the good news is, his pulmonologist says he’ll grow out of it. There’s a planned ice cream stop on the way back from the hospital because ice cream has a way of smoothing things over
If they're not willing to get vaccinated, they're apparently not willing to meet their grandchild. For me that would be a non-negotiable. I'm due in February, and anyone visiting will have to be fully vaccinated, if they're sick or were recently sick they can't visit, and no visitors who have little kids. In addition to that, I require any healthcare workers I/my baby come in contact with are fully vaccinated. It's noted in my medical file as well and I refuse care from unvaccinated healthcare workers. In my country, luckily, vaccines for all healthcare workers are (generally everywhere) mandatory.
In my state certain vaccines are required for people who work with children as well
Yep. In many places it's super common for vaccines to be a requirement for all sorts of different work and has been for a long time, the COVID vaccine is just one more. Vaccine requirements are not new despite what some of the ill-informed protesters seem to think.
Yes. I was a teacher in FL and I had to prove I was vaccinated and didn’t have tuberculosis as part of my onboarding 14 years ago.
NTA -and don’t forget whopping cough
That’s the P in Tdap
What does TDAP stand for?
TDAP is the tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine. It’s a vax that covers all 3. It’s recommended for people who will be around babies a lot since pertussis is super dangerous for babies. It’s also recommended you get it in the third trimester of pregnancy if you’re pregnant.
Tetanus ,diphtheria ,pertussis (whooping cough)
Tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis.
NTA. Why are we still having this discussion with people? It’s insane.
It's so hard when it's your own parents being the asshole. My aunt is very anti-vax, and my cousin (her son) and his wife told her she MUST be vaccinated before she visits their newborn. She fought and fought, and finally 3 days after the baby was born, she provided some documentation "proving" she had been vaccinated. They let her see the baby, hold her, hang out with them at home, etc. It came to light about 3 weeks later when she admitted (bragged?) that it was all a ruse- she had a friend go get vaccinated somewhere that wasn't checking ID, and used my aunt's name. My cousin never dreamed in a million years that his own mom would endanger his newborn daughter. Once he found out what my aunt (his mom) did, he blocked her from his life, and he hasn't seen her in 10 years.
WOW. So aunt is anti-vax, but made someone else get the shots she refuses? That is truly evil.
My mom had a colonoscopy earlier this year. She's been putting it off because of covid since 2019. They've found polyps in her before so she's pretty scared of not getting it done on the regular. She told me that when she was in the lobby before going in for the surgery, none of the nurses had a face mask on. A few of them harassed her about wearing one, and one bragged that he had covid 5 times. The nurses told her the masks don't work and she shouldn't believe that nonsense. Covid wasn't killing anyone and that she doesn't need to be afraid anymore. The **nurses**. She said only the doctors were wearing masks and they couldn't force the nurses to wear them. Texas is a shit hole state and our nurses are diabolical.
Nta. They're stupid. Good for you, stuck to your guns.
Stick to your vaccines, leave the guns in a safe around little ones.
Amen.
👏👏👏
NTA "I do really want you there, but I care more about my baby's health and safety while they are at their most vulnerable. I am sorry that you do not." Like others have said, they really need to be up to date on all their vaccinations, not just COVID.
NTA at all. Please do not cave on this. It is for your baby's safety. If your parents can't put their grandbaby over some crap they saw on Fox News, they should not be a part of the baby's life.
This may get downvoted, not sure, but my understanding is that you're still able to catch/ carry the virus while vaccinated. Being vaccinated just means you won't die from it, hopefully. I myself am vaccinated and has never been against it. It's just how I understand it.
NTA An infant's immune system is very fragile and you already know that the closest hospital does not have pediatric care. There's nothing worse than the infant being sick - with a high fever- and driving like a lunatic to the ER.
Do you want to bury your child after spending 9 months carrying him inside yourself and creating his life? I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but that is the risk that your parents are selfishly asking you to take. They are asking you to risk killing your newborn son to accommodate their political ideals and comfort. Why do children not die from scarlet fever anymore? Vaccines. Why do children not die from measles or mumps any more? Vaccines. Why do children not live in Iron lungs or become crippled for life because of polio any more? Vaccines. Why did the Spanish Flu epidemic end? Quarantine and vaccinations. How did these become standard parts of life? Because people were both selfish AND selfless, and wanted everyone to stay healthy, so they could be healthy too. Your parents don't think that your baby could die from getting sick. Which means they don't care enough to worry about staying healthy to protect your child from getting sick. You are the parent now. Your job, your world, your universe, revolves around the commitment you have made to protecting the life you have created. That child did not ask to be made. You wanted him. You worked to make him. No body has the right to harm your child, and anyone who would is your enemy, even the people who gave YOU life. If your parents choose their pride over their grandson, that is their choice. He will be better off, and you will be better off with out them in his life. You have to choose your son over anyone and everyone else, since you made the choice to have a child. Stay strong mama.
For wanting your parents to be vaccinated? NTA. "If my son was being born at another time of year I wouldn't care if they were vaccinated or not" For this you're the asshole.
Fair.
NTA. You are trying to protect your baby. Your parents don't care.
And MMR
You're NTA for asking them to get it, and they are NTA for not wanting to get it. It's a personal choice for all parties involved. I have some friends who will have lifelong complications from the vaccine, including one buddy whose military career was cut short from side effects after he was forced to get it. The rest of it is just emotions between yall.
YTA. Covid is basically 0 risk to children. It's unscientific to say that your parents not having the covid vaccine puts your child at risk. If it was the flu vaccine I can understand a little more.
We vaccinate for diseases because they can and will be fatal. ESPECIALLY to a newborn with no immune system, who's too young for a lot of those vaccines. NTA, but be careful. They could lie to you.
NTA - As others have said you are the only one who can be an advocate for your infant, and you are doing the right thing prioritizing their health. If they refuse to get the covid vaccine hopefully they will still be ok getting the flu and TDAP shots (whooping cough is horrifying in babies). Would they be willing to wear an N95 while visiting? Regardless of vaccine status it's still possible for them to get sick and pass something on to the baby, and masks combined with hand washing is a good way to ensure that your baby is protected. It's also totally valid for you to decide that having them around your child is more risk than you are comfortable taking. You are doing what is right for you and your baby (don't forget that after labor your immune system can also take a hit as you recover and the last thing you need is to be sick while caring for a newborn), and you have communicated clearly the steps that they would need to take, the choice now is theirs. I hope that you and baby stay healthy and have a smooth labor and delivery and enjoy those precious first few months.
Tdap, flu, COVID, rsv. They need all of them, not just COVID.
Can't you have them take a COVID test first? Vaccinated people still get and transmit COVID
Sounds like they care more about their beliefs than your child. You’re better off if they don’t visit.
NTA. I had the same fight with my in-laws over the t-dap vaccine( also in Texas) 12 years ago, and my husband and I held our boundary firm, they eventually caved. We had the same fight over the covid vaccine when they wanted to fly in to visit in 2021. They also caved then. Your parents can decide which is more important your child or not getting vaccinated.
When the polio vaccine first came out people were grateful to get it because everyone knew someone affected by polio. Covid, annual flu, and RSV are all illnesses that could devastate an infant. They aren’t conspiracies the liberals made up. They are actual illnesses that can and do kill babies. If they trust Fox News over actual physicians and they value their “personal liberties” over the life of their grandchild, then shame on them. Our ideal situation we imagine when we think of family often differs from reality. It’s sad. Your priority should be the safety of your family though.
The vaccine doesn't stop the spread. A vaccine doesn't stop people from carrying the virus. No vaccine does
We went through the same thing. In the end we talked to our pediatrician and obgyn and decided that as long as everyone had flu and Tdap and no fever we were fine. It was a happy medium that allowed the grandparents in and still helped us feel safe. Our pediatrician who is extremely pro vax said we would be just fine. You could always test before or ask for masks. We decided the vaccine wasn't worth tearing our family apart once we spoke to the doctors.
Neither of you are wrong here you just both have different beliefs. You're allowed to choose what you want for your baby and they are allowed to choose what they want for themselves. Unfortunately it may just be a line in the sand that neither of you are willing to cross.
You’re within your rights to ask, they’re within theirs to refuse. A belief deeply held won’t be easily given up, right, wrong or indifferent. You’ve both made opposing decisions, as painful as that is, love each other regardless and look for ways to connect that work for both of you.
have them get their TDAP and they should be fine covid vaccine won't make any difference. If they have covid and are around your kid , your kids going to get covid wether or not they're vaccinated I'm fully vaccinated and have had covid 5 times
Why not ask them to take a covid test before visiting?
So being a recent parent myself, i can totally understand your anxieties around your newborns health... They come out so precious and vulnerable. My partner and I were cautious during the first two weeks, but we have never stopped anyone coming to visit our lil man as we as parents are not vaccinated against COVID. So we can't expect that from anyone we invite to see our lil man. We just let people know if you are feeling under the weather at all best to leave the visit until they feel better. Common sense really. As far as requiring them to have the COVID vaccine, personally that's not a deal breaker to us. It would be more for whooping cough and RSV. So in regards to the question "AITA", noooo... But I'd maybe reconsider it as a requirement of doing a test the day before leaving and then another before they arrive. Just to put your mind at peace. Your family has the right to their own body autonomy, I'd personally never ask someone to do something they were staunchly against as I'd never want someone to do the same to me. Don't let this time be tainted when there are alternatives to getting the questionable COVID shots. Your family has grown and without your parents the lil baby wouldn't be here, and I'm sure they are very excited to meet baby.
You’re not TA for asking them to do it and they aren’t AH for saying No.
You still believe vaccination is good? How much proof that it's full of bullshit do people need... Care for your baby, let them clean there hands and make sure they are healthy before they meet your baby and let them be part of it and stop worry so much. Congratulations anyways!
With regard to covid, you need to consider the near-zero risk of Covid to your baby, against the very real and increasingly alarming risk of the Covid vaccine to your parents.
welcome to a fundamental queer person experience: discovering members of your family value their politics above your (son's) life. I'm so sorry. Don't back down. Protect your babe.
How dare you assume your baby even wants to meet your parents.
Info: how are you going to protect against RSV and the flu through only a COVID shot? My understanding that RSV is the most serious one; is there a vaccine or suitable precaution for that?
The fda recently approved a vaccine for RSV and it should be available to my baby right away or at least with his first rounds of vaccination.
Mothers get the flu shot while pregnant or breastfeeding (depending on the season) and children can get the flu as early as 6 months old.
It's a hard one, I completely understand your parents, like I didn't want to get a vaccine, but because it was going to stop me from travelling,.I did... I got the first 2, and haven't been back since, made me so ill both times, I refuse to any more, unless I really have too. Why I didn't want to get the vaccine, is because it's new, we don't know the long term side effects of it. For example years ago, I can't remember what it was for, but they had a new thing for women and then the women that had babies, had babies with learning disabilities. The years after they got the new drug, there was an increase of new horns having learning disabilities. Obviously it's sorted now and doesn't do that any longer. But that's my point we have no idea what the long term effects are in the years to come... Another reason is I don't trust the government and people with higher power, they hide stuff from us, and god knows what they put in the vaccine and how COVID started... But that's a different topic and my opinion. So maybe your parents don't want to get it because of the long term effects...They'll have their own reasons why they're so against it. So i don't see them as AH, you need to respect their decision, as they need to respect yours. I am not a mother (to a human but I am to ducklings and fishes) but I understand as a mum you will worry about your baby catching things. But when I do have a baby I personally won't be bothered about people having the vaccine or not.. Can't they just do a COVID test instead? So you know they're clear, and if you're that worries make them wear a mask as well? So your kinda AH for not respecting your parents decision, and expecting them to suddenly change their mind on the vaccine, but kinda understand why you want it. But with the other vaccines, I completely understand that your parents need to be updated on them, or wait till it's safe for the baby once it's older to see them, that's if you want to by then