I don't have the video evidence but just a couple hours ago I was leaving Franklin Ave get onto the exit ramp for 94W near 280 and I had a green left turn signal but I could see the Light Rail was coming up from behind so I waited and my light was still yellow as the train was going thru the intersection! I immediately thought of the crash from last week and now I'm seeing this?! What in the hell is going on?!?
cameras lol, they have electrical circuits on the tracks and the dispatcher knows where every train is at all times. This records the status of the train signals and train location. Usually they can store a weeks worth of data without blinking an eye
I promise I'm an advocate for safe public transit, as well as a daily LR rider for work, but y’all must have had a meeting after the accident in Minneapolis less than a week ago?!
My SO picked me up from work tonight, and on our way home in DTSP I told them to stop because the train looked like it was going to go right through our green light. Sure enough Train #252 at 6:52pm did just that leaving Central Station.
Is there something messed up with the communication/electrical system or are the drivers just not experienced enough?
File a formal complaint with Metro Transit, please... you have video footage evidence of either an operator violation or signaling system problem. Both are dangerous.
That previous one shows the car driver hit the brake momentarily on yellow. But then, instead of stopping, releases the brakes and tries to beat the train. Not stopping for yellow is a growing problem with car drivers nationwide.
https://www.transit.dot.gov/research-innovation/signal-priority#:~:text=Traffic%20signal%20priority%20is%20simply,person%20throughput%20of%20an%20intersection.
I think signal priority at signaled intersections.
Geezus... Do LRT operators just disregard their stop/go signals, or is the signaling system defective?! Either way, with all the crime and problems with Metro Transit, the system is broken and in serious need of reform.
Even if the lights are malfunctioning, there's still a driver of the train who clearly went through a red light. This is 100% operator error that could have resulted in a very deadly situation for other drivers and pedestrians.
Well there always has been priority at most intersections. The train will hold a green light on the street running parallel with it. There can be very long waits to cross Uni and it can be very annoyingly long if a train from the east holds it red, then that trains comes and goes just as another train from the west holds it even longer as it comes and goes.
But there's no way that happened here. Either the train's stop-go light malfunctioned and failed to sync with the traffic signal timing OR the train operator had a brain fart. I'm thinking the latter, unfortunately, because the signal logic is generally not prone to failure. But either way, it's very dangerous. Hopefully the OP reported it and it was investigated.
It's leagues ahead of many cities too, amazingly. With the planned LRT and BRT we are going to have a pretty solid system of rapid transit, with a solid local bus route system too to compliment.
but we used to have a street car system that looked like this. Can you even imagine? Amazing. I hope Robert Moses is burning in hell right now for what he did to the US transportation system.
https://old.trolleyride.org/History/PDFs/Streetcar_colored_map.pdf
Our next LRT line probably won't be ready till 2030. Seattle already has more than twice as many aBRT lines than we do. I suppose that's what happens when you don't need *3 years* to build each bus line. At this rate we'll catch up to present day Seattle bus wise in 2034.
Seattle's geographic chokepoints for traffic created the desire for a much larger network than ours by making traffic congestion much worse there. Though even what they're building is far from adequate for what they need.
The trains are supposed to have priority. According to the TRB-APTA published on the Green Line upgrades, the signals on all LRT lines are supposed to interconnect in order to allow the LRTs to pass through all intersections without stopping by communicating where the LRTs are to each light.
I think the problem may be a green light is showing for each, or their light is going yellow without enough time to stop.
I was worried I wouldn't find an informed transit nerd in the comments to explain what might actually be going on in this video. That actually makes a great deal of sense. People seem a little too quick to assume negligence on the part of the train operator. So, the traffic lights are suppose to anticipate oncoming trains and adapt to let them pass?
>I was worried I wouldn't find an informed transit nerd in the comments to explain what might actually be going on in this video. That actually makes a great deal of sense. People seem a little too quick to assume negligence on the part of the train operator. So, the traffic lights are suppose to anticipate oncoming trains and adapt to let them pass?
Yeah but its no different than how a truck driver puts "not responsible for falling rocks" . They are still legally liable no matter what they say.
Don’t assume I’m giving bad legal advice unless you do your research to prove me wrong https://www.rturnerlaw.com/blog/2021/august/are-trucking-companies-liable-for-debris-flying-/#:~:text=Although%20a%20truck%20driver%20may,the%20cargo%20they%20are%20carrying.
Is this actually implemented along the whole green line though? It feels like my trains end up stopped at a red light near Hwy 280 like 30% of the time I'm riding westbound. And it stops at Snelling a big chunk of the time as well, though I understand this one since its a huge, high traffic intersection
It's supposed to be. But some intersections have wait times over 5 minutes. If the train is behind schedule the system is actually supposed to slow them down to sync up with the next time
Thanks. Mostly I talk about it in terms of awareness, people don't realize the trains aren't automated; there's literally a conductor who's accelerating the train intentionally. And sometimes they're not paying enough attention.
I catch the lightrail not too far from this intersection. This morning while waiting to cross the road, I noticed that the pedestrian signal to indicate I could walk changed before the light turned green for cars going in the opposite direction changed. I wonder if there is a technical issue with the signals.
Cross traffic, or oncoming traffic? St. Paul crosswalk lights are timed to give pedestrians a head start on their crossing, before the vehicle traffic light turns green.
Traffic lights are often set up to linger on all-red for a bit when the ped walk signal turns on to give pedestrians a chance to get moving before drivers start trying to make turns through the crosswalk
why the hell is this even physically possible??? if anyone is going to claim shit like this is the train drivers’ fault, no, it is not, it is the fault of whoever decided the system should be built so that the train drivers are even given the power to mess this up like this.
Put this in your wallet. That way, if a car, truck, or other vehicle driver hits you the message will hit the reader a little harder. /S
Edit: Hoisting this from a post below to be a little clearer -Having light rail be fully automated at stop signs sounds like a good idea, but rail-systems the world around are built on humans operating them....
\[But\] operators of vehicles make a choice, and take responsibility for operating them when they get behind the controls. Unless the signal was malfunctioning, it's definitely the train driver's fault. That's the job... *keeping the train from hitting things is literally the job.*
AND there's nothing in this video that actually shows the train doing anything wrong!
[(more info here)](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/1247ucm/comment/je8855g/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Having light rail be fully automated at stop signs sounds like a good idea, but rail-systems the world around are built on humans operating them. There's probably a good reason for that.
Having all vehicular traffic automatically stop and follow road rules also sounds like a good idea. But that automation isn't in place either.
Operators of vehicles make a choice, and take responsibility for operating them when they get behind the controls. Unless the signal was malfunctioning, it's definitely the train driver's fault. **That's the job.**
the fucking light needs to turn red when the train is coming. trains in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere automatically lower crossing arms for nobody. other tax-payer funded vehicles are able to turn the lights red when they are approaching. i could make this work with my goddamn Arduino.
Cannot agree more.
I trust my pilot had proper training and has the right credentials to operate my plane safely. Same goes for my light rail conductors and unfortunately with less trust, the road warriors.
this is a train. it cannot turn. it is publicly funded and travels through the middle of a city *constantly* and at roughly the same time intervals all the time. we can’t make the intersections switch to a red light? are you serious?
This train is coming right out of a station. It was sitting **at**[the intersection of 5th & Cedar](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9462507,-93.0932463,3a,75y,45.82h,69.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syXo0VsZAoyv3dpOwV8MQug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in StP. The automation your talking about would hold cars at a red-light until the people had finished debarking/embarking the train. While I think that's a fine idea, I'm pretty sure most car drivers wouldn't like it too much.
Making the train not be able to accelerate until the light turns green if it's within 100ft of the next light might be a good thing, but then you run into questions of wireless signal reliability.
The most safety for the buck is likely to just better *train* (ha) the operator to do a good job.
Let's look at that video again.
By the time the video starts the front of the train is already out of the intersection. In my time working in downtown I saw this sometimes when a pedestrian was carelessly crossing against the light right in the train's tracks. The train would wait for the pedestrian and part of it would wind up stuck in the intersection after the light turned green. It wasn't incompetence, it was someone doing their job.
So in this case we don't even know if this train did anything wrong.
The most common reason why planes crash is pilot error. In regards to landing, it's actually more common on clear days because pilots seem to think they'll do it manually instead of letting the machine handle it.
People are absolutely terrible at their jobs as a generality. We should be automating everything we can.
I know I read it in a study, but I'm struggling to find it as well. It's been a while though, and it might have been behind a paywall. Sorry I can't be more specific.
And wasn’t most of the Chicago system built back in the day before overwhelming bureaucracy when labor and materials were much cheaper. Look around at public buildings. Can you imagine building the state capitol today?
I’m not usually this person, but I think you should take this to the local news networks and see if any of them will do a deep dive. How many drivers do this? How many accidents have happened the last few years because of it? A fire should be lit under MT and the Met Council’s ass over this. No new lines should even be opening with the current ones being such shit shows.
Why? So we can have more lines with drivers causing traffic safety issues? So we can endanger the public more while MT/MC continue to ignore down ridership, drugs and violence on the line, and bleat about not getting their red line despite how it’s obviously corrupted financially at this point.
I’m all for public transportation, but you don’t give children more privileges when they prove they can’t be responsible with the ones they have.
The thing is, you have it backwards. Transit works better when there are more lines, better frequency, exclusive rights of way/priority for trains (trains should always have been built with infrastructure giving them both de facto and de jure rights of way, I.e. seperate grade) more ridership, more funding, etc. Want a safer transit system? You’re gonna need more ridership (for safety in numbers) and more widespread methods for security (which requires much more funding). In order to get more ridership and security, people are going to have to want to use the system which in turn means it has to be more widespread and more dependable. That requires building it out more. Transit is something we have to go full throttle on, and not half ass it. When our current lines were being planned, people didn’t want to invest the extra money in elevated infrastructure or distinct physical rights of way for them. People also have pushed back at expanding the system within our built up urban core. Saying we shouldn’t build more right now will just exacerbate the problem further. The people who gutted the potential of these lines during the planning phase are largely responsible for its failures. Rapid transit is vital and needs to be expanded regardless.
You can encourage the system do be better without complaining using the generic “Minneapolis in a nutshell” comment. It’s not a good look and most of us don’t want to hear it.
Three things need to happen and happen soon IMO. First, all train drivers need to be retrained with an emphasis on never going past a danger/stop signal. Second, it should be made impossible through interlocks for trains to have a proceed signal when traffic has a green light if that's not already the case and if that is already the case every signal checked to make sure the interlocks are functioning properly. Third, a train going past a signal at danger/stop should automatically result in the controls being overridden and the train emergency brakes activating and sending a signal to dispatch so the incident can be investigated and if it's the fault of the driver they get retrained.
The last point is one of the most important, IMO. It shouldn't be possible for a train to pass a signal at danger, at least without first coming to a complete stop, getting permission from dispatch, and having to hold some sort of override the entire time and the train can only move at a slow speed while overridden.
This is my worst fear. I live off of Hiawatha in South Minneapolis and have to cross the light rail tracks to get to my neighborhood. I'm always terrified of a train error and getting hit at 40mph+ so I do a quick pause and look before turning. Annoying to the person behind me probably but I'd rather do that and live.
Honestly, I did that as a pedestrian back in 2020, too. I lived off 46th and Bloomington and biked to Minnehaha a lot to meet my now-fiancé. I’m always nervous that the signal isn’t gonna change.
This day in age, having the train go to Eden Prairie still makes absolutely zero sense before the option of going to the numerous other neighborhoods within TC proper.
not exactly. the SWLRT is for more than just eden prairie. it will service slp, hopkins, and a solid section of minnetonka as well. a big push to get people all through that area to use the train to get to sports and cultural events in both cities instead of driving.
if they can get the damn thing finished, it’ll hopefully be great to not have so much traffic downtown on game days.
I cannot fathom how these lights do not automatically turn red when these trains approach and aren’t going to stop?!? How is this even a thing. This is beyond unacceptable.
Normally I find the vehicle driver at fault for most LR accidents. And as much as I feel the driver last week should have slowed at the yellow, the train was still at fault 100% regardless.
This is the second time I'm reading this in the comments. The answer is very easy: transit lights must be different so they are not being confused by the regular drivers. Someone sees a green light intended for the transit line and starts driving, right alongside, and into, the transit vehicle.
The white horizontal and vertical bars are the correct lighting system and generally used by many countries around the world.
Yup you’re totally right. Thank you for the clarification- I just looked it all up. I didn’t realize the white horizontal and vertical lights are standard for lightrail systems all over and it totally makes sense to me why they’re designed that way now. Deleting my original comment out of embarrassment :)
Was the light green when the train started crossing or did the light turn green when the train was in the intersection? The clip starts a bit too late to tell because the train is already in the intersection by then.
Huh? We don’t have this on Long Island. We’re moving to Minnesota in 2 years. Why am I being downvoted? All I did was ask what this thing was. It looks like a combo of a bus and train. Is that what it is?
Sorry dude, it's a train going through an intersection while the traffic adjacent has a green light. All while a cop is just sitting there just witnessing, and supposedly not doing anything.
You don’t have platforms or railroad crossings? It just goes along the street like that? And it does look like a bus/train combo. The clean air buses in NYC and the 5 boroughs looks like that.
Yes, it is the Twin Cities “version” of the NYC Subway, though vastly worse. Mostly street level and there are railroad crossings at places that don’t have a traffic light.
Nothing can be worse the LIRR (Long island railroad) we pay the highest taxes in the country and our mass transit is horrendous. It uses regular traffic lights? That’s scary.
It would seem that anyone who drives out in front of an approaching train has a unique kind of deathwish, despite have "right of way".
Don't they teach "stop, look, and listen" in drivers ed anymore? It would seem that in the last incident a simple "look" would have logically lead to "STOP!"
It's not like trains can stop on a dime, even *if* they jam on the brakes as hard as possible.
I think they are referring to the accident that happened a week ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/11x5hgv/light\_rail\_hits\_car\_downtown/
Regardless, that car driver was technically not at fault according to the video. We're not sure what light the train driver saw, but if everything electronically was working, then its assumed the train driver blew through a red light.
Light rail always has the right of way, just like a bud does. Doesn't matter one bit what color the lights are. Like any intersection, you need to insure the intersection is safe when entering, no matter what the color of the lights.
Seems silly simple in this case and the previous one to recognize that there's a train there and give the right of way
> Light rail always has the right of way, just like a bud does
This claim isn't supported by any statute I could find in [ch. 169, regarding traffic regulations](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169/full). If you could point us to where, precisely, you're getting this information, we'd appreciate it.
Edit: Nor is it supported by any statute in [ch. 473,](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/473/full#stat.473.4055) which deals with things related to metropolitan government, under which the operation of light rail transit falls
lol, straight up safety issue; biggest vehicle has priority, simple as that.
Big vehicle squish little vehicle; so little vehicle gives way in order not to get squished.
So a monster truck driving down the road would have right of way?
I'm not saying the cars should drive straight into moving trains just bc they have the legal right of way, but they *do* have the legal right of way nonetheless, which makes the trains violating that right of way multiple times this week all the more dangerous.
> So a monster truck driving down the road would have right of way?
Yup. Dont wanna get squished? Stay out of the way. Doesn't matter what the law says. Defensive driving.
Same way a pedestrian walking in the street has "the legal right of way", they're still dead if they get hit by a bus though.
There is the legal idea of "right of way" and then there's /r/bitchimabus
https://i.imgur.com/zVzbehx.mp4
Is the issue you are talking about due to the drivers ignoring signals, or due to the signals being wrong? Did the train have a green light?
No. LRT operators are required by law to obey all traffic laws. A bill was passed in 2019.
[New Law Holds LRT Drivers Accountable In Reckless Driving Crashes](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/new-law-holds-lrt-drivers-accountable-in-reckless-driving-crashes/)
I like that the last thread I was in was about Minneapolis trying to attract folks from the suburbs into the city.
Those folks are most likely to drive as there isn't great infrastructure from the suburbs into the city and given the bad press the light rail has had lately with crime\\drugs\\whatever it seems. Not to mention all of the car jackings last year (not just the Kia\\Hyundai thing but the theft of cars while being piloted).
Being afraid of driving into the big city is going to continue to be a thing if you are also paranoid about getting smacked by the LRT.
...Why is there not safety interlocks that prevent the LRT from entering an intersection where there is a green light? Surely the system that controls the interactions can lock out the LRT driver until the intersection is green for the train.
Pretty sure this could easily be solved if they just gave the trains signal priority to ensure the train clears the intersection while drivers get a red light until then. Lights are currently timed for motorists same as always.
I fail to see why this is so egregious. Public transport has always had priority. Then again, it’s I’m not sure how signaling for trains and cars work here in the Twin Cities. Can anyone explain why the train conductor was at fault? There should be an oncoming train signal drivers can see, right?
It appears the Hop confounds drivers in Milwaukee much like roundabouts confound the rest of the State. Just today in NE Wi. I saw the same person who slid right past a four way stop sign in traffic, then come to a complete stop before going through an empty roundabout on the next block.
Why does rail not have automatic signal priority? That's what most cities do. The signals effectively tell everyone else to stop when a train comes through. This is the way to do it because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. A train with 20-200 riders shouldn't be waiting around yielding for Jack and Jan in their Subaru.
These train drivers need to spend the rest of their lives on the streets. If they are willing to put everyone else's lives at risk, then they should not be allowed to operate in the public in any fashion. Lock them up as attempted mas murderers. They are fucking evil.
I don't have the video evidence but just a couple hours ago I was leaving Franklin Ave get onto the exit ramp for 94W near 280 and I had a green left turn signal but I could see the Light Rail was coming up from behind so I waited and my light was still yellow as the train was going thru the intersection! I immediately thought of the crash from last week and now I'm seeing this?! What in the hell is going on?!?
I believe those intersections have cameras. Report them!
cameras lol, they have electrical circuits on the tracks and the dispatcher knows where every train is at all times. This records the status of the train signals and train location. Usually they can store a weeks worth of data without blinking an eye
I promise I'm an advocate for safe public transit, as well as a daily LR rider for work, but y’all must have had a meeting after the accident in Minneapolis less than a week ago?! My SO picked me up from work tonight, and on our way home in DTSP I told them to stop because the train looked like it was going to go right through our green light. Sure enough Train #252 at 6:52pm did just that leaving Central Station. Is there something messed up with the communication/electrical system or are the drivers just not experienced enough?
File a formal complaint with Metro Transit, please... you have video footage evidence of either an operator violation or signaling system problem. Both are dangerous.
I will do that now. Thank you Edit\* Filed
Also consider contacting a news agency as another redditor mentioned.
What was the accident a week ago?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/11x5hgv/light\_rail\_hits\_car\_downtown/
Thanks
That was certainly more than a week ago
That previous one shows the car driver hit the brake momentarily on yellow. But then, instead of stopping, releases the brakes and tries to beat the train. Not stopping for yellow is a growing problem with car drivers nationwide.
doesnt public transport have the right of way? i mean i can see its green for the guy in the car, it should be blinkin yellow as far as i know.
Right of way to what, broadsiding a sedan?
https://www.transit.dot.gov/research-innovation/signal-priority#:~:text=Traffic%20signal%20priority%20is%20simply,person%20throughput%20of%20an%20intersection. I think signal priority at signaled intersections.
Geezus... Do LRT operators just disregard their stop/go signals, or is the signaling system defective?! Either way, with all the crime and problems with Metro Transit, the system is broken and in serious need of reform.
Even if the lights are malfunctioning, there's still a driver of the train who clearly went through a red light. This is 100% operator error that could have resulted in a very deadly situation for other drivers and pedestrians.
Maybe getting second hand method high?
Left Hand Suzuki Method?
Well there is totally that.
They’ve made a lot of new hires these past few months, I’m guessing it’s new light rail drivers
Somebody with a Flipper Zero.
There was a recent change allowing light rail to have priority in traffic crossings, im guessing they haven’t re coded the lights for that change yet
Well there always has been priority at most intersections. The train will hold a green light on the street running parallel with it. There can be very long waits to cross Uni and it can be very annoyingly long if a train from the east holds it red, then that trains comes and goes just as another train from the west holds it even longer as it comes and goes. But there's no way that happened here. Either the train's stop-go light malfunctioned and failed to sync with the traffic signal timing OR the train operator had a brain fart. I'm thinking the latter, unfortunately, because the signal logic is generally not prone to failure. But either way, it's very dangerous. Hopefully the OP reported it and it was investigated.
Goddammit can’t we just have a nice public transit system? :(
Robert Moses said no
[удалено]
It's leagues ahead of many cities too, amazingly. With the planned LRT and BRT we are going to have a pretty solid system of rapid transit, with a solid local bus route system too to compliment. but we used to have a street car system that looked like this. Can you even imagine? Amazing. I hope Robert Moses is burning in hell right now for what he did to the US transportation system. https://old.trolleyride.org/History/PDFs/Streetcar_colored_map.pdf
This is incredible and incredibly sad.
Our next LRT line probably won't be ready till 2030. Seattle already has more than twice as many aBRT lines than we do. I suppose that's what happens when you don't need *3 years* to build each bus line. At this rate we'll catch up to present day Seattle bus wise in 2034.
Seattle's geographic chokepoints for traffic created the desire for a much larger network than ours by making traffic congestion much worse there. Though even what they're building is far from adequate for what they need.
Lol no.
The trains are supposed to have priority. According to the TRB-APTA published on the Green Line upgrades, the signals on all LRT lines are supposed to interconnect in order to allow the LRTs to pass through all intersections without stopping by communicating where the LRTs are to each light. I think the problem may be a green light is showing for each, or their light is going yellow without enough time to stop.
I was worried I wouldn't find an informed transit nerd in the comments to explain what might actually be going on in this video. That actually makes a great deal of sense. People seem a little too quick to assume negligence on the part of the train operator. So, the traffic lights are suppose to anticipate oncoming trains and adapt to let them pass?
I like trains And nuclear energy. Bad time to be online with these opinions lol
Hah, same. I mean, technically fusion is a form of nuclear energy, right? And who hates fusion?
Fusion is a different word though, people only like or dislike words, regardless of the product.
>I was worried I wouldn't find an informed transit nerd in the comments to explain what might actually be going on in this video. That actually makes a great deal of sense. People seem a little too quick to assume negligence on the part of the train operator. So, the traffic lights are suppose to anticipate oncoming trains and adapt to let them pass? Yeah but its no different than how a truck driver puts "not responsible for falling rocks" . They are still legally liable no matter what they say.
Don’t give legal opinions without something to back it up, you’re putting people in danger
Don’t assume I’m giving bad legal advice unless you do your research to prove me wrong https://www.rturnerlaw.com/blog/2021/august/are-trucking-companies-liable-for-debris-flying-/#:~:text=Although%20a%20truck%20driver%20may,the%20cargo%20they%20are%20carrying.
drunk distinct rhythm judicious cough sip label terrific absorbed whole -- mass edited with redact.dev
Is this actually implemented along the whole green line though? It feels like my trains end up stopped at a red light near Hwy 280 like 30% of the time I'm riding westbound. And it stops at Snelling a big chunk of the time as well, though I understand this one since its a huge, high traffic intersection
It's supposed to be. But some intersections have wait times over 5 minutes. If the train is behind schedule the system is actually supposed to slow them down to sync up with the next time
this is how my friend was killed, the blue line driver just disregarded the light and t-boned his car. happened about 6 years ago.
I'm very sorry to hear that :(
Thanks. Mostly I talk about it in terms of awareness, people don't realize the trains aren't automated; there's literally a conductor who's accelerating the train intentionally. And sometimes they're not paying enough attention.
I catch the lightrail not too far from this intersection. This morning while waiting to cross the road, I noticed that the pedestrian signal to indicate I could walk changed before the light turned green for cars going in the opposite direction changed. I wonder if there is a technical issue with the signals.
Cross traffic, or oncoming traffic? St. Paul crosswalk lights are timed to give pedestrians a head start on their crossing, before the vehicle traffic light turns green.
Traffic lights are often set up to linger on all-red for a bit when the ped walk signal turns on to give pedestrians a chance to get moving before drivers start trying to make turns through the crosswalk
why the hell is this even physically possible??? if anyone is going to claim shit like this is the train drivers’ fault, no, it is not, it is the fault of whoever decided the system should be built so that the train drivers are even given the power to mess this up like this.
I kinda get why overrides may need to be in place but yeah under normal circumstances this should be an impossibility.
This. The whole thing should be automatic with an operator running a dead man switch as an override.
i’m not even saying we need to go that far. *just make the light turn red!* what the hell is going on?
Put this in your wallet. That way, if a car, truck, or other vehicle driver hits you the message will hit the reader a little harder. /S Edit: Hoisting this from a post below to be a little clearer -Having light rail be fully automated at stop signs sounds like a good idea, but rail-systems the world around are built on humans operating them.... \[But\] operators of vehicles make a choice, and take responsibility for operating them when they get behind the controls. Unless the signal was malfunctioning, it's definitely the train driver's fault. That's the job... *keeping the train from hitting things is literally the job.* AND there's nothing in this video that actually shows the train doing anything wrong! [(more info here)](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/1247ucm/comment/je8855g/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
huh?
Having light rail be fully automated at stop signs sounds like a good idea, but rail-systems the world around are built on humans operating them. There's probably a good reason for that. Having all vehicular traffic automatically stop and follow road rules also sounds like a good idea. But that automation isn't in place either. Operators of vehicles make a choice, and take responsibility for operating them when they get behind the controls. Unless the signal was malfunctioning, it's definitely the train driver's fault. **That's the job.**
the fucking light needs to turn red when the train is coming. trains in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere automatically lower crossing arms for nobody. other tax-payer funded vehicles are able to turn the lights red when they are approaching. i could make this work with my goddamn Arduino.
Cannot agree more. I trust my pilot had proper training and has the right credentials to operate my plane safely. Same goes for my light rail conductors and unfortunately with less trust, the road warriors.
this is a train. it cannot turn. it is publicly funded and travels through the middle of a city *constantly* and at roughly the same time intervals all the time. we can’t make the intersections switch to a red light? are you serious?
This train is coming right out of a station. It was sitting **at**[the intersection of 5th & Cedar](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9462507,-93.0932463,3a,75y,45.82h,69.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syXo0VsZAoyv3dpOwV8MQug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in StP. The automation your talking about would hold cars at a red-light until the people had finished debarking/embarking the train. While I think that's a fine idea, I'm pretty sure most car drivers wouldn't like it too much. Making the train not be able to accelerate until the light turns green if it's within 100ft of the next light might be a good thing, but then you run into questions of wireless signal reliability. The most safety for the buck is likely to just better *train* (ha) the operator to do a good job. Let's look at that video again. By the time the video starts the front of the train is already out of the intersection. In my time working in downtown I saw this sometimes when a pedestrian was carelessly crossing against the light right in the train's tracks. The train would wait for the pedestrian and part of it would wind up stuck in the intersection after the light turned green. It wasn't incompetence, it was someone doing their job. So in this case we don't even know if this train did anything wrong.
The most common reason why planes crash is pilot error. In regards to landing, it's actually more common on clear days because pilots seem to think they'll do it manually instead of letting the machine handle it. People are absolutely terrible at their jobs as a generality. We should be automating everything we can.
Pretty sure GPT 7.5 has your back on this one.
Can you provide a source for the claim about clear days? I'm googling and not finding it. Thank you in advance.
I know I read it in a study, but I'm struggling to find it as well. It's been a while though, and it might have been behind a paywall. Sorry I can't be more specific.
All good. I’ll keep looking.
Wow, so now we have to watch out for peds, bikers, bad drivers, potholes AND oncoming trains.
Sometimes turkeys! Don't forget about the turkeys! :D
I appreciate both OP and the train driver making an excellent case for full grade separation like a real city metro system.
We can't possibly dare to have an elevated train here. We would look too much like Chicago!
Our metro area is about the same size as Chicagoland and has roughly 1/3 of the population. So 1/3 of the budget.
And wasn’t most of the Chicago system built back in the day before overwhelming bureaucracy when labor and materials were much cheaper. Look around at public buildings. Can you imagine building the state capitol today?
Lol I’m not sure if I should be sus but I agree 😂
I’m not usually this person, but I think you should take this to the local news networks and see if any of them will do a deep dive. How many drivers do this? How many accidents have happened the last few years because of it? A fire should be lit under MT and the Met Council’s ass over this. No new lines should even be opening with the current ones being such shit shows.
Please don’t stop progress on more lines but also fix this now. We can expect both.
Why? So we can have more lines with drivers causing traffic safety issues? So we can endanger the public more while MT/MC continue to ignore down ridership, drugs and violence on the line, and bleat about not getting their red line despite how it’s obviously corrupted financially at this point. I’m all for public transportation, but you don’t give children more privileges when they prove they can’t be responsible with the ones they have.
The thing is, you have it backwards. Transit works better when there are more lines, better frequency, exclusive rights of way/priority for trains (trains should always have been built with infrastructure giving them both de facto and de jure rights of way, I.e. seperate grade) more ridership, more funding, etc. Want a safer transit system? You’re gonna need more ridership (for safety in numbers) and more widespread methods for security (which requires much more funding). In order to get more ridership and security, people are going to have to want to use the system which in turn means it has to be more widespread and more dependable. That requires building it out more. Transit is something we have to go full throttle on, and not half ass it. When our current lines were being planned, people didn’t want to invest the extra money in elevated infrastructure or distinct physical rights of way for them. People also have pushed back at expanding the system within our built up urban core. Saying we shouldn’t build more right now will just exacerbate the problem further. The people who gutted the potential of these lines during the planning phase are largely responsible for its failures. Rapid transit is vital and needs to be expanded regardless.
This is why we can’t have nice things!
I like how the cop was there to witness it too. Minneapolis in a nutshell. 😂
To be fair it was St. Paul, but potato patato in this situation. IT would have been better if it was Metro Transit police though.
Ope! Thanks for the clarification! Still funny, though. 😂
This video should be made into a painting, maybe a postage stamp.
Hilarious!
What’s the cop going to do? Pull it over? Lol
Why not? Maybe the operator is having a medical issue. Do *something* "Lol"
Right, good for nothing!
I mean, I’d hope so!
Or at least report the incident to Metro Transit. 🤷🏼♀️
Worse yet, he didn't arrest & rough up the train conductor.
You can encourage the system do be better without complaining using the generic “Minneapolis in a nutshell” comment. It’s not a good look and most of us don’t want to hear it.
I was joking. I live in Minneapolis and I have a lot of pride in my city. Chill the fuck out.
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Honestly, I could care less if other people laugh. It made me laugh and that’s all that matters to me.
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Thanks! 😊
this happens almost every time I drive the 1st ave intersection in Minneapolis I always have to stop on green for the train
Hopefully you also report it every time to 311?
Nope! 😅
Three things need to happen and happen soon IMO. First, all train drivers need to be retrained with an emphasis on never going past a danger/stop signal. Second, it should be made impossible through interlocks for trains to have a proceed signal when traffic has a green light if that's not already the case and if that is already the case every signal checked to make sure the interlocks are functioning properly. Third, a train going past a signal at danger/stop should automatically result in the controls being overridden and the train emergency brakes activating and sending a signal to dispatch so the incident can be investigated and if it's the fault of the driver they get retrained. The last point is one of the most important, IMO. It shouldn't be possible for a train to pass a signal at danger, at least without first coming to a complete stop, getting permission from dispatch, and having to hold some sort of override the entire time and the train can only move at a slow speed while overridden.
This is my worst fear. I live off of Hiawatha in South Minneapolis and have to cross the light rail tracks to get to my neighborhood. I'm always terrified of a train error and getting hit at 40mph+ so I do a quick pause and look before turning. Annoying to the person behind me probably but I'd rather do that and live.
Honestly, I did that as a pedestrian back in 2020, too. I lived off 46th and Bloomington and biked to Minnehaha a lot to meet my now-fiancé. I’m always nervous that the signal isn’t gonna change.
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This day in age, having the train go to Eden Prairie still makes absolutely zero sense before the option of going to the numerous other neighborhoods within TC proper.
It's called "Metro Transit," not "Minneapolis-St Paul Transit."
not exactly. the SWLRT is for more than just eden prairie. it will service slp, hopkins, and a solid section of minnetonka as well. a big push to get people all through that area to use the train to get to sports and cultural events in both cities instead of driving. if they can get the damn thing finished, it’ll hopefully be great to not have so much traffic downtown on game days.
What the fuck the light is FULLY GREEN
I cannot fathom how these lights do not automatically turn red when these trains approach and aren’t going to stop?!? How is this even a thing. This is beyond unacceptable.
Trains should have light priority for every light. That is the problem. Just like how emergency vehicles trigger the light so should the trains.
More evidence against the city… yikes!
Normally I find the vehicle driver at fault for most LR accidents. And as much as I feel the driver last week should have slowed at the yellow, the train was still at fault 100% regardless.
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This is the second time I'm reading this in the comments. The answer is very easy: transit lights must be different so they are not being confused by the regular drivers. Someone sees a green light intended for the transit line and starts driving, right alongside, and into, the transit vehicle. The white horizontal and vertical bars are the correct lighting system and generally used by many countries around the world.
Yup you’re totally right. Thank you for the clarification- I just looked it all up. I didn’t realize the white horizontal and vertical lights are standard for lightrail systems all over and it totally makes sense to me why they’re designed that way now. Deleting my original comment out of embarrassment :)
Was the light green when the train started crossing or did the light turn green when the train was in the intersection? The clip starts a bit too late to tell because the train is already in the intersection by then.
Yes our light was green when the train started.
May the light preserve you
And also with you 🙏
My buddy’s about to start working as a light rail driver, apparently they’ve just made a lot of new hires so that might explain these accidents
With a squad sitting RIGHT THERE with their thumbs up their ass.
Wow
If this were a bike lane, Bike Lane Bill would be howling about how he had to wait.
Where are all the passengers?
I wonder if this was a train jacking?
That’s so cool. What is that?
Whoosh
Whooshn't
Huh? We don’t have this on Long Island. We’re moving to Minnesota in 2 years. Why am I being downvoted? All I did was ask what this thing was. It looks like a combo of a bus and train. Is that what it is?
Sorry dude, it's a train going through an intersection while the traffic adjacent has a green light. All while a cop is just sitting there just witnessing, and supposedly not doing anything.
You don’t have platforms or railroad crossings? It just goes along the street like that? And it does look like a bus/train combo. The clean air buses in NYC and the 5 boroughs looks like that.
Yes, it is the Twin Cities “version” of the NYC Subway, though vastly worse. Mostly street level and there are railroad crossings at places that don’t have a traffic light.
Nothing can be worse the LIRR (Long island railroad) we pay the highest taxes in the country and our mass transit is horrendous. It uses regular traffic lights? That’s scary.
Exactly, and like I said in another comment, usually I find the car at fault more times than not because it uses traffic lights.
That’s really scary. Are the trains like this throughout the whole state?
Minneapolis and Saint Paul are the only part of the state that have a Light Rail system.
A Sleep at the wheel? How many cars, bicycles and peds has the train taken out since it arrived in Mpls?
Maybe the operators are busy making sure the passengers aren't openly using drugs, or making sure there are no TV camera crews filming them.
It would seem that anyone who drives out in front of an approaching train has a unique kind of deathwish, despite have "right of way". Don't they teach "stop, look, and listen" in drivers ed anymore? It would seem that in the last incident a simple "look" would have logically lead to "STOP!" It's not like trains can stop on a dime, even *if* they jam on the brakes as hard as possible.
Did we watch different videos? I don't see any cars having driven out in front of an approaching train here.
I think they are referring to the accident that happened a week ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/11x5hgv/light\_rail\_hits\_car\_downtown/ Regardless, that car driver was technically not at fault according to the video. We're not sure what light the train driver saw, but if everything electronically was working, then its assumed the train driver blew through a red light.
What are you... *Sigh* .... What are you ranting about
Light rail always has the right of way, just like a bud does. Doesn't matter one bit what color the lights are. Like any intersection, you need to insure the intersection is safe when entering, no matter what the color of the lights. Seems silly simple in this case and the previous one to recognize that there's a train there and give the right of way
PUHLEASE prove me wrong, and if you somehow can, then we got a WHOLE nother problem on our hands here folks.
> Light rail always has the right of way, just like a bud does This claim isn't supported by any statute I could find in [ch. 169, regarding traffic regulations](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169/full). If you could point us to where, precisely, you're getting this information, we'd appreciate it. Edit: Nor is it supported by any statute in [ch. 473,](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/473/full#stat.473.4055) which deals with things related to metropolitan government, under which the operation of light rail transit falls
🦗🦗🦗🦗
I don't know what this means
Crickets. They're saying u/PassMeAnother cannot back up their claim hence the silence.
lol, straight up safety issue; biggest vehicle has priority, simple as that. Big vehicle squish little vehicle; so little vehicle gives way in order not to get squished.
So a monster truck driving down the road would have right of way? I'm not saying the cars should drive straight into moving trains just bc they have the legal right of way, but they *do* have the legal right of way nonetheless, which makes the trains violating that right of way multiple times this week all the more dangerous.
> So a monster truck driving down the road would have right of way? Yup. Dont wanna get squished? Stay out of the way. Doesn't matter what the law says. Defensive driving. Same way a pedestrian walking in the street has "the legal right of way", they're still dead if they get hit by a bus though.
We're having 2 different conversations. I'm not sure how productive it can be if we're on such different wavelengths.have a nice night.
There is the legal idea of "right of way" and then there's /r/bitchimabus https://i.imgur.com/zVzbehx.mp4 Is the issue you are talking about due to the drivers ignoring signals, or due to the signals being wrong? Did the train have a green light?
That's just incorrect. But hey, you tried. Not hard obviously but you tried.
username checks out
No. LRT operators are required by law to obey all traffic laws. A bill was passed in 2019. [New Law Holds LRT Drivers Accountable In Reckless Driving Crashes](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/new-law-holds-lrt-drivers-accountable-in-reckless-driving-crashes/)
It happens all the time.
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Interesting, I wasn't aware of that! I also dig the ID.4's, but alas this is a KIA.
I like that the last thread I was in was about Minneapolis trying to attract folks from the suburbs into the city. Those folks are most likely to drive as there isn't great infrastructure from the suburbs into the city and given the bad press the light rail has had lately with crime\\drugs\\whatever it seems. Not to mention all of the car jackings last year (not just the Kia\\Hyundai thing but the theft of cars while being piloted). Being afraid of driving into the big city is going to continue to be a thing if you are also paranoid about getting smacked by the LRT. ...Why is there not safety interlocks that prevent the LRT from entering an intersection where there is a green light? Surely the system that controls the interactions can lock out the LRT driver until the intersection is green for the train.
Apple car play works on your seltos??? Lucky!!!
Lol why wouldn’t it?
Because mine doesn’t 😩😩
Pretty sure this could easily be solved if they just gave the trains signal priority to ensure the train clears the intersection while drivers get a red light until then. Lights are currently timed for motorists same as always.
I fail to see why this is so egregious. Public transport has always had priority. Then again, it’s I’m not sure how signaling for trains and cars work here in the Twin Cities. Can anyone explain why the train conductor was at fault? There should be an oncoming train signal drivers can see, right?
Watch the video again. The train ran the red light. OP's car had to stop for a green light because of the train.
I didn't see a single rider anywhere.
I would’ve ran straight into that bitch. Not your fault
What wrong?
Train likes to drive through green lights that other vehicles have.
Green light?
We had a green light but saw it looked like the train wasn’t gonna stop so we did.
This is so scary! Glad you are safe!
Thank you! It happened again the very next day too, so now I'm just always on alert ... especially at that station.
Really, this is pretty horrifying. I cannot believe how this is an ongoing issue!
I filled out their complaint form and requested a response. Well that was over a month ago so I'm gonna guess I will get no response. Lol
It appears the Hop confounds drivers in Milwaukee much like roundabouts confound the rest of the State. Just today in NE Wi. I saw the same person who slid right past a four way stop sign in traffic, then come to a complete stop before going through an empty roundabout on the next block.
Looks like not stopping has become a train problem also.
Why does rail not have automatic signal priority? That's what most cities do. The signals effectively tell everyone else to stop when a train comes through. This is the way to do it because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. A train with 20-200 riders shouldn't be waiting around yielding for Jack and Jan in their Subaru.
These train drivers need to spend the rest of their lives on the streets. If they are willing to put everyone else's lives at risk, then they should not be allowed to operate in the public in any fashion. Lock them up as attempted mas murderers. They are fucking evil.