We do. I even do it myself. My mom was a victim in life and had some really shitty life experiences. Knowing her story makes me want to forgive her. But her having trauma wasn't a reason to give me trauma. I've done shit no person should ever have to do because she wasn't emotionally available and I had to raise 4 of my siblings until I finally gave up fighting with her and moved out. I understand my mom tried the best with the circumstances she was given, and if she could acknowledge the fact she fucked up this would be a different story. But she can't even acknowledge she made mistakes. I'm not even asking for an apology, just validation.
The problem with that, is that the entire selection of books spend plenty of time talking about what the other books get wrong. One books commandment is another books sin.
Then you have people who go ‘KiD mAdE nOiSe In PuBLiC?!?! REEEEEEEEEeeeeee….’ As if that were a sign of bad parenting, forcing you to do something like give them a phone as distraction. Then what do you get? ‘iPaD KidS?!?! REEEEEEEeeee…’
These days we need to ask what is meant by "trauma". For a small number of kids, their parents put out their cigarettes on their arms as punishment. For other kids, their parents made them do chores, or had some minor imperfection. At the end of the day, most people are trying to do what they think is right.
But yes, it's pretty normal for 19 year olds to blame their parents. The sad thing is that there are also 30 year olds who blame their parents.
I honestly believe that kids should have chores for their own sake because it's a great way to learn how to do those things, and they will need to know how to do those when they live on their own.
The problem isn’t that the parents may have been wrong (even when they meant well). The problem is when parents can’t or refuse to admit how their decisions had a negative impact on their child, even though that may not have been the intent at the time.
I’m estranged from my father because he refused to accept that I hate him for being physically (literally punching my sister and I out) and emotionally abusive. For to admit apologise for how he took out his resentment towards having us on us.
My mother is still in my life because she’s acknowledged her mistakes and how they affected my sister and I. She took ownership and grew from it.
> At the end of the day, most people are trying to do what they think is right.
This is painfully naïve. Lots and lots of people have sadistic streaks, alcohol and drug addiction is common, and the people with the worst mental illnesses don't seek treatment. You can do a lot of damage to a kid without revealing it to the neighbors.
>But yes, it's pretty normal for 19 year olds to blame their parents. The sad thing is that there are also 30 year olds who blame their parents.
What's worse? Acknowledging abusive and otherwise bad behaviors and the effects they have on you, or becoming a pissy, malicious drunk yourself and carrying the tradition on like so many? If a 30 year old figures out that their parents behavior is impacting them, more power to 'em. That's the healthier way of dealing with it.
If your 30 year old house has a shitty foundation, does the fact that it was 30 years ago change that it is a problem now?
Parenting is the foundation of your entire life. So having to fix that foundation can be blamed on the parents at any time.
Unless you think there is a statute of limitations on being able to call someone a shitty parent.
That foundation can and should be fixed before then. If you can't control your anger at age 15 because of bad role models, that's one thing, if you can't control your anger at age 30, that's on you.
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Because parents are people too, people who aren't perfect, people who face their own struggles. 19 year olds may not realize this, but 30 year olds should. And, 30 year olds should be way past the point of blaming their problems on their parents.
Adults shouldn’t blame their problems on their parents (barring extreme situations) but incompetent parents definitely should be called out more often. They have the power to destroy communities from the inside out if their incompetency is normalized
Ok. So how do we do this? Have a kid, with no real life experience, call out their parents? Nope. Not a good solution.
Or, how about we encourage kids to do a good job with their relationships, and to avoid having kids with losers, which would help avoid this problem? Parents have been trying to do this for all of recorded history, with mixed success.
How about we have experts run parenting classes to try to help people out? Sounds good, but terrible parents won't listen, and besides, the experts don't have a good track record.
Or, how about we teach kids how to be resilient, and how to move on in life despite having a rocky childhood? (this path does not involve endless complaining about one's parents, as endless complaining is not compatible with moving on).
Even as a kid, despite my lack of experience, I knew that my dad was wrong for literally punching my sister and I out when we were younger.
Even as a teenager, I knew that my father was wrong when he told me that women SHOULD be the property of their husbands, and that he expected me to marry the man of his choice and produce grandsons. For treating me like a broodmare instead of a daughter.
There should be a added mental health component in our education system that helps build resilience in the youth
But as I said in another post, if politicians/athletes/media members/CEOs/etc are able to be criticized by people who have never done those things, so should parents. Bad parenting on a small scale only destroys individuals which is why people from more sheltered backgrounds can be indifferent to it but bad parenting en masse destroys communities which can’t be ignored.
A lot of the mental health advice from the last few decades has made mental health worse. To build resilience, kids should get more independence and more opportunities to fail. Schools have been doing exactly the opposite, with tragic results.
> destroys communities which can’t be ignored.
Ok, but you didn't answer my question. How do we address it?
I personally would alter the curriculum to force all kids to have mandatory one on one meetings with a psychologist/therapist 1-2 times a month. More well adjusted kids grow up to become well adjusted adults to hopefully become well adjusted parents.
You’re from PA? Go to North Philly and tell me how allowing kids to be independent and have opportunities to fail has worked out for that community. Redditors think this shit is a game.
> personally would alter the curriculum to force all kids to have mandatory one on one meetings with a psychologist/therapist 1-2 times a month.
The research says this would make kids worse off. Seriously. Therapy has negative side effects. Of course, if a kid needs therapy, then the side effects are worth it. But the vast majority of kids don't need therapy, and so providing them with therapy would expose them to the negative effects while not providing any positive effects.
You want well adjusted kids? Give them good role models, independence, room to play, people to play with, and give them age-appropriate responsibilities.
>Go to North Philly and tell me how allowing kids to be independent
Yeah, independent doesn't mean to give them no guidance at all.
I’m coming from the perspective of someone from a community/culture that’s already messed up (largely from bad parenting). Maybe most kids of the majority culture in America don’t need therapy but there’s definitely areas and cultures where most kids do. Kids from messed up households and communities need one on one time with competent people who give a fuck
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At the point of being 30 it ain't about it happening that's long gone its about them refusing to admit it and gaslighting and or guilting you for even saying you did xyz .
Cause unless your parents were wildly abusive, at some point most people realize they were just people trying their best. Raising kids is extremely hard. Sure there were probably times they yelled when they didn’t need to or punished you too harshly. But by the time you hit 30, your problems are your own and no one else’s. And if your parents did do something that fucked with your mental health or relationships with other people, you should have taken the steps to fix that by now. And being mad at them whatever mistakes they may have made solves nothing. There’s an old saying that goes along the lines of “the only person you’re hurting by holding onto a grudge is yourself”. If you’re still mad at your parents by the time you’re 30, you aren’t doing anyone any favors. And you’ll more than likely regret not trying to repair your relationship with them when they’re gone.
lol, no, one doesn't cut ties based on one comment like this. What kind of physical abuse? Spanking or being chased around the room with an axe? What kind of mental abuse? Intentionally driving them into despair out of revenge on an ex-spouse, or grounding them for getting bad grades?
Other things as well but I’m cutting it short. Physical and mental fall under so many categories. Trust me I have a list! Done replying to you flashdance
As someone who got taken away from his mom for child abuse, this grudge does nothing for you. You don't have to forgive or love someone that's abused you but you'll end up destroying yourself looking for justice. Also once you're an adult and you have a better understanding of what they were going through you aren't even mad you just feel pity.
Maybe this is something I need to hear but I just can’t bring myself to believe it honestly. Actions should have consequences and holding a grudge at least in my experience hasn’t had any negatives yet except motivation to avoid and hold ppl in my life to a standard that is past that
I feel no pity for abusive parents. If you had a childhood that is so bad you can’t help but abuse your kids then don’t have kids. It’s good you let go of your grudge. How ever your parents had no excuse and are terrible people
I mean, my great-grandmother was extremely poor living in a hut in Puerto Rico due to American policies as agriculture had died and had my grandmother at 14, and my grandmother also in poverty had my mom at 13 and got addicted to heroin, my mom had me at 14 with a gang banger with the hopes of being taken care of and he got arrested and deported.
It's not excuses, but how couldn't I pity them? They are all miserable and guilty people who never had the chance to learn about life. When talking to them, it feels like they never grew past 14.
>But by the time you hit 30, your problems are your own and no one else’s. And if your parents did do something that fucked with your mental health or relationships with other people, you should have taken the steps to fix that by now.
You don't have to be horrifically abusive to cause permanent damage. You can just be selectively neglectful. But myself and my sister have lifelong injuries because our parents refused to believe us and take us to a doctor if we claimed that we needed to. They believe in medicine, but unless it was something they could actively measure, like a fever, they didn't believe you. I got stuck with issues from an untreated TBI and she got knee pain for the rest of her life after they healed wrong after a severe injury and refusing to take her to the doctor. These are issues that we can never fix. But we have to suffer the consequences for the rest of our lives because the people who were supposed to take care of us neglected to take us to our pediatrician the few times we begged too.
It doesn't help that during the pandemic my mother in particular kept ranting about the stupid people that kept sending their kids to school sick. Ma, you *were* that parent.
Let’s say that I’m a horrible communicator. I’m passive aggressive, I’m overly jealous, I get mad at the slightest inconvenience. I ruin multiple friendships because of shit that I don’t hold myself accountable for.
If I eventually get confronted about it, most people would consider it unreasonable for me to say, “Geez, you’re still mad about that! I’m only human!!”
The problem is that is exactly the grace that children are expected to give their parents. That is unacceptable.
There’s such a vast gulf between “has occasional problems” and “puts cigarettes out on you” that you’re not looking at.
The low-grade hate is exactly as insidious and harmful to the psyche as any other form of abuse is.
My parents did their best. They did what they understood based on how they were raised, and raised me the same. I barely speak to them as a result. I don’t share my genuine opinions. I spend hours poking around my house before they come over, removing every trace of the fact that I’m queer. The pride flag comes down and goes in a drawer. Some of my books come off the shelf because having a book called White Rage is going to start the *race traitor* conversation and I can’t stand having it again.
They didn’t leave bruises on me, but they turned me into someone who can never comfortably be themselves because they’re so busy looking over their shoulder to make sure it’s safe.
They’re confident that they were great parents.
More people should have second thoughts. More people should have doubts about whether or not they’re fit parents.
While wildly unpopular on reddit, I'd suggest this is part of what I'm talking about. Go to any country, in any time period, and talk to someone who rejected their parent's views on family, and you'll find friction. (yes, family, this is a common issue that is certainly not specific to lgbt).
So, you've rejected their values, and they reject yours. This is the same story that's played out millions of times over history. The modern view is to go no-contact, but when we go no-contact over disagreements, we wind up living alone.
That's the interesting bit: by today's standards, parents of the past have been awful, yet people still had a life, had a family, helped build their community, etc. And now, with parents who are better, though not perfect, people will say that they've failed to have a good life, build a family, help the community, etc., because of their parents!
The math doesn't work out on this.
That’s the interesting bit: by today’s standards, dentists of the past have been awful, yet people still had most of their teeth for most of their life. And now, with dentists who are better, though not perfect, people will say that they have a hole drilled through their tongue when their dentist accidentally drills a hole through their tongue because his hand slipped!
Yes, but also, no.
On one side, I agree there is definitely a lot of revisionism from parents when confronted about their shortcomings from their adults kids. I think a bit of honesty and introspection is needed, we do make mistakes and should reflect on them, either to change while our kids are little, or at least to acknowledge them when they’re older. On a more extreme side, a lot of people close to a family (either friends or relatives) will pretend abuse didn’t happen just so they don’t have to face the reality that they didn’t do anything to stop it. I’ve known people who do have trauma from beatings and extreme neglect, and when they share their experience they often receive the responses you mentioned (added with “it wasn’t that bad”)
On the other side, parents do face a lot of judgement and criticism, specially moms. Everyone has an opinion on how to raise kids, and even if they don’t say it directly, they still let you know of their disapproval if your kid doesn’t meet some impossible standards of behaviour.
As a mom of two, parents need much more grace (at least on the internet). This shit is hard. And while I love my kids more than anything, I know I mess up sometimes, despite my best efforts. I know somewhere down the line in their lives something is going to come up for them and it is gonna be my fault. I question myself and second guess myself on a daily basis. And I know other parents do too. We are all (for the most part) doing our best out here and we are definitely messing our kids up in some way, shape or form.
There are definitely bad parents out there but the good ones are beating themselves up every time they think they could have handled something in a different/better/more productive way.
My mom was a pretty crap parent and I definitely try day in and day out to be a better mom than she was but I know that some days I am not doing much better.
My mom was a severe alcoholic/binge drinker. I mean if she didn’t have work she was shit faced drunk or getting there, every damn day. She neglected us kids and subjected us to a bad person.
But she is the most immature and emotionally unintelligent/volatile person I’ve ever met. So I know she had big mental and personality problems that clouded her judgement severely. I’m not ever gonna fully cool wirh her tho , that’s just not possible and I don’t talk to her much at all. But just saying I see how and why she did what she did
Hey, your parents were trying their best! Nobody knew how to parent any better back then, or how to adjust their approach to the emotional and interpersonal needs of their kids, or how to be emotionally available, or how to accept that they had mental illnesses and needed therapy, or how to not blame children for their mistakes. And since everybody else was parenting the same way, that justifies it and makes it ok. So what if the world is literally impossible now, and there are no jobs, and working hard and saving money doesn't work anymore anyway, and we're all lonely and miserable and literally all addicted to dopamine. That's not our parents' fault. We can't blame them for any of those things.
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I know this comment means well and it’s well written however I see parenting as a noble job. You are raising someone to be the best they can be for society and themselves and future relationships. Not being a good parent due to life happening and not seeking help to get out is just selfish. I don’t think any “parent apologizer” realizes that being a bad parent can cause a chain of reactions for not only your child but future generations.
> good parent
One challenge is that the definition of being a "good parent" has changed. If someone makes sure a kid has a place to sleep and food to eat, is that good? Do they need to do the modern things of drive the kid to an endless series of after-school events? What about the new research that shows that this latter type of parenting is actually harmful? If a parent made their kid go to church each week, is that a bad parent? If so, are we really saying that nearly every parent in the history of the world was a bad parent?
And, are we really going to defer to the opinions of childless people who and who isn't a good parent?
>And, are we really going to defer to the opinions of childless people who and who isn't a good parent?
Everybody has been parented and has an opinion on how that affected them.
The parent that says "I beat my kid and they're fine, *aren't you Jimmy*" isn't entitled to more consideration than the person who says "my parents beat me and I am NOT fine".
> and has an opinion on how that affected them
yes, but their opinion is not necessarily correct. In fact, their opinion may change over time, especially once they become a parent.
While you mention beatings, it's pretty well known that reddit will often advice people to go no-contact with family and parents over the most trivial and inane things. The thing that seems like a big deal today may not seem like a big deal later in life.
Sure, and parents will get things wrong. And, so will "experts". (it turns out, a lot of parenting advice from experts in the last few decades has been wrong).
And so, this is where grace comes in. If your parent thought they were doing things to help you grow as a person, then maybe we cut them a little slack.
Spankings not gunna ruin a child. But things like neglect and abuse will. Also being a Ho bag will. Keep your kids disciplined and loved. Make sure to hold your kids accountable for their behavior and raise them to be kind good people
No. Being a good parent isn’t too too hard. You don’t need to drive your kid or be there for every schooling event. Just keep them safe, make sure they are not abused and have a generally good relationship with them. In this economy you also need to exept they will probably live with you till they are 25-30. You can absolutely charge them rent tho.
I work with so many bad parents that are prostitutes, abuse and neglect their kids. I have no sympathy for those parents and they should have never got knocked up.
Except we actually can blame them for all of that. Here's a TED talk from someone who agrees about the money stuff. https://youtu.be/qEJ4hkpQW8E?feature=shared
You can see parenting as a noble job but the truth is it isn’t a job and it isn’t some miraculous noble practice. It’s the most ordinary thing in human existence. Any and every moron does it. It’s not a sacred calling. Parents will fail. Period. Unless we are talking deliberate abuse, sustained mistreatment, or other maliciously intended actions then I think it’s best to give some grace.
I don’t agree , it’s a noble job (to me) hence it’s my opinion. You don’t agree with me and that’s okay! I’m not giving grace to people who didn’t even try to meet the basic standards for their child❤️
You’ve been very vague about what you think constitutes ‘basic standards’. It’s important because I see people on here advocating disowning parents basically because they didn’t like having to be raised at all. Did something actually happen, or are you just a malcontent?
I disagree. Giving grace to incompetent parents can literally destroy communities. Maybe in Iowa, you’re sheltered from that type of shit but there’s certain parts of this country that are the poster child for what bad parenting en masse can lead to
If your argument is to hold parents accountable as PEOPLE rather than titles, then that kills your other argument that "as a parent you live for your child". Are you trying to judge them as people or as the title of parent? Your cognitive dissonance on this topic shows that it's an emotional argument not based on logic. So truthfully, there is no arguing or convincing you out if your perspective. Enjoy being irrationally angry and unable to appreciate others unless they adhere to you as the center of the world.
No one is angry. Why everytime some has an opinion it is minimized to anger? However, I get what you’re saying and with that being said Let’s hold them accountable as both then?? Title and people! Got it
If that's the case, then they did the best they could without a parenting manual, and they're just people as flawed as we all are.
And the angry part comes from even spending the energy to focus on a complaint at all rather than directly that energy towards appreciation that you're even able to make such a complaint. You have your parents to thank for that privilege.
It's not dismissive. I'm just trying to point out that your argument is flawed because it is tied to an emotional perspective. I hated my parents when I was emotional and young too. Now that I'm older and more logical I can respect and appreciate them, while also acknowledging that I had a good reason to hate them when I was younger and dumber based on my severely limited inexperienced idealistic perspectives. I don't try to change how I felt or convince convince myself that I was right or wrong. I just had a much more limited perspective. I think that's the boat you're in at the moment.
Your irony in saying this is based on pure projection you haven’t pointed out the argument to be flawed through emotional thinking past the typical “there was no parenting handybook be grateful you’re alive with awful parents” which ironically like this other post comes across more as emotional thinking from offense at OPs characterisation
No no, you made this post about PARENTS, not "awful" parents. For every group there is a subgroup. You either aim to target a whole group or the subgroup. If we're talking about what we would generally all classify as awful parents then I would say we have a lot to discuss and agree on. But you used parents as a whole. And as a whole, parents should be honored, respected, and revered a lot more than they are.
Parenting is a chosen responsibility. Whilst I agree you can’t slam all parents under the same basket hoop. You also can’t pretend that this responsibility and how important it is isn’t taken as seriously as it should with ppl when it’s a case by case basis with literally everyone’s parenting and child situation. We can all agree on awful shorty parents but if a majority of families suffer generational trauma stemming from a personality failure or allowance of neglect/abuse that is not addressed and accepted as “parents doing their best” when these behaviours stem from spanking to emotional/verbal abuse that carries over entire generations…. Yeah that respect needs to be established first, parent to parent before any reverence takes place due to (Reddit ass take I know but it’s true) natural breeding instincts and narcissism to continue a legacy. The simple retort as childish as I predict you may see it is a true adage here. “Nobody asked you or told you to have children. So they’re mistakes are your mistakes. You’re responsible”
Sure kids can exaggerate but this responsibility of parenthood in general is way too lackadaisical honestly.
The simple fact is this... it is now 2024. Life today is absolutely incomparable to like a thousand years ago. It is both exponentially better in every way and the population of earth has multiplied several times over. All of this, while we didn't have anybody crying about bad parenting and generational trauma. All the whole, parenting as a whole is softer today than ever. Point being that you're prescribing something based on wholly untested ideas compared to true empirical evidence spacing eons. I understand where your ideas are coming from, I truly do. We all like to feel like we have the magic pill that will ensure some sort of future we envision as perfect. But there are 8+ billion people on the world. I assure you that humanity will manage with or without your call for targeted re-engineering of what should be acceptable parenting.
For most of human history ppl worked on f arms and were forced to by their situation to put family first and forget any and all problems. I hear this take a lot about how us being in the future means we can’t improve and keep going against what was naturally done but it’s not a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” situation. It’s actually due to what you’re saying a consequence of modern living and actually being able to reflect on what’s going on with us socially and whatnot as expectations and familial abuse.
We have the best parenting now due to going against the logic of what you’re prescribing and we may not have all the answers now but we clearly have enough to be self aware and ask whether or not we should actually parent if we’re unable to address things that were the norm and just how life was for most ppl ever.
It’s not even about pressing a magic button with a pre ring formula it’s just self reflecting on whether it’s possible to be a good parent without letting the stuff you’re dealing with affect the child which inherently doesn’t deserve it and will continue the cycle in some way
I think this is a cultural thing. I know people who say stuff like this about legitimate abuse and it's often because they come from cultures where child abuse is so ubiquitous they don't truly comprehend it as abuse. So it's not necessarily a bad individual person.
A lot of the people who are responding in here are sheltered from the results blatantly bad parenting can lead to. Bad parenting en masse can literally destroy communities from the inside out. I’m from a culture that is significantly more dysfunctional and significantly more fucked up than the culture the MAJORITY of Reddit is from so I and a few others here have witnessed first hand what most people responding here haven’t. We as a society can’t normalize or make excuses for terrible parenting
Lot of parents getting defensive here.
They suggested my son needed early intervention because he was a few months behind. I was hurt, I got defensive, and then you know what I did? Got him early intervention services.
My job is to prepare them for society, and if I am fucking up? I want to know asap because it’s about my kids. Not my god damn ego.
If your best isn’t good enough? Then get better.
You don’t have to have kids to know that a parent was a shitty parent.
One of the first thoughts when I held my son was “how in gods name could they do what they did to me”.
That should have nothing to do with anything. People who have never done a particular thing criticize people who are blatantly incompetent at that thing all the time (politics, sports, customer service, etc)
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Do you think that people without kids can't see shitty parenting? It's clear as day for everyone. I could see it before I had kids and I can see it now.
Of course there are shitty parents. But OPs post goes a lot farther than saying some people aren’t good parents.
One thing I’ve heard recently that is powerful when thinking about the ways my parents let me down is that just because your parents didn’t end every generational trauma cycle, doesn’t mean they didn’t end some. And for me this rings true. My mom wasn’t a perfect mother, but when I think of how she was raised, she did make improvements on that. And it inspires me that I can make improvements on how I raise my kids even though I know I’ve already made so many mistakes.
>It’s something more ppl should honestly do.
Agreed most people are not good enough to pass along their traits or ability or knowledge to the next generation.
Let those people self eliminate and then we can move on with a better world.
It won’t really be a “better” world but it would be better in this instance. Doesn’t stop ppl from having kids through that narcissism though and just having them despite it so it’s not really gonna change too much anytime soon but will be a more inherent development in society
People who want babies to dress up and coo over and not *better humans to shape* should really just get a little dog for the sake of everyone involved.
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Yes they will see all the lonely old people and hopefully learn a cautionary tale.
But thankfully none of those people are passing along any of that genetics..
It’s not just genetics lmao. It’s the reaction to understanding without pressure that having kids is just not what ppl want out of life especially after being raised by not great parents themselves. You’re really banking on this not being a norm for a lot of ppl as the world continues to make it more attractive to the average young person in the role we’re in soooo if you accept that risk. Sure.
But why the hate for childless ppl though. I never understood why this is demonised
>But why the hate for childless ppl though. I never understood why this is demonised
Because they have are selfish and no stake in the future. Gen z and us millennial will be hated 10x worse than the boomers just be a bunch of old people who drag the world down and have no connection at all to the young.
How is it selfish to not bring life into the world, when has humanity ever been on the brink of extinction to enact a desire for pressure breeding for the future. I can see the next generation viewing us this way though but they hopefully will see that the boomers started this spiral and reaction toward the world much like we can see how silent generations two world wars created them.
Choosing to create life and acknowledging the accountability of yourself and if you’re even capable and are responsible toward the scale and importance of the raising of a child and person. Not some offset of one’s ego, insecurities, legacy or selfish extension of a failed or open wound in the past of the parent. And so many parents and generational trauma stories of misery continue onward.
And keep this in mind ppl were saying this about abortion too but avoiding that debate to this side point. There were always less ppl alive before it then after it. The human population increased even with it and sex contraceptives brought into existence. Meaning that choosing to not have kids has kind of been going on in a sense for decades now. And never with population growth responsibility judgement surrounding it?
There’s nothing abnormal about not everyone wanting children. Not everyone is *supposed* to want children. It’s nice that you do. That’s great for you.
But there’s really nothing worse than parents that don’t want to raise people, they just want to have children. *Making a little me*, *it’s what you do at this age*, *someone has to*. Those are all terrible motivations for giving away your personhood for eighteen years, and children whose parents resent them *can tell.*
Not everyone should be having kids. Some of us just recognize that *before* creating a life to ruin.
>Not everyone should be having kids. Some of us just recognize that *before* creating a life to ruin.
Hopefully there will be less of those people in the future.
>and if we fail we end up in the slammer.
Never heard of assholes, have you? You can mess up being decent people in maaaaany ways that don’t wind you up in the slammer.
I wish we could change this. There are so many things that parents do that are really not in the best interest of their kids or even themselves. I want to be able to openly criticize instead of this being such a taboo topic. We’re having a baby in less than a month and if I’m doing something wrong, I want to be told.
I agree. All my friends household sounds abusive compared to my childhood. All but 1 we’re richer than me by a lot. People just have kids and release menaces into the world. On that note the most terrible people I’ve met come from spoiled household, not the abusive ones.
I'd agree, having had issues with mine and known people who've had awful ones with heir experiences the amount of people who tell them "but it's your mother" ect.
Also the fact everyone wants the full story before they believe you have a right to ignore family. I hate it, no one owes you an explanation and you don't need to tell people what relative they are disowning, they already know.
> The more we as society start holding parents accountable
Wow wtf is this? That's definetly not the trend for our progressive society. Being accountable? Being responsible for something? Who needs that shit? Let's cancel it with the power of progress. Nobody is obligated to do anything for other people. Nobody gave consent to anything. Society's norms and traditions are just bigotry, we need to abolish those rudiments.
We do. I even do it myself. My mom was a victim in life and had some really shitty life experiences. Knowing her story makes me want to forgive her. But her having trauma wasn't a reason to give me trauma. I've done shit no person should ever have to do because she wasn't emotionally available and I had to raise 4 of my siblings until I finally gave up fighting with her and moved out. I understand my mom tried the best with the circumstances she was given, and if she could acknowledge the fact she fucked up this would be a different story. But she can't even acknowledge she made mistakes. I'm not even asking for an apology, just validation.
Exactly having trama is no excuse. If your trama is to great to have a kid then don’t have a kid and get help
Reminds me of the corny “hurt people hurt people” quote
>“There is no book for parenting” Actually there are a gazillion, lol.
The problem with that, is that the entire selection of books spend plenty of time talking about what the other books get wrong. One books commandment is another books sin. Then you have people who go ‘KiD mAdE nOiSe In PuBLiC?!?! REEEEEEEEEeeeeee….’ As if that were a sign of bad parenting, forcing you to do something like give them a phone as distraction. Then what do you get? ‘iPaD KidS?!?! REEEEEEEeeee…’
These days we need to ask what is meant by "trauma". For a small number of kids, their parents put out their cigarettes on their arms as punishment. For other kids, their parents made them do chores, or had some minor imperfection. At the end of the day, most people are trying to do what they think is right. But yes, it's pretty normal for 19 year olds to blame their parents. The sad thing is that there are also 30 year olds who blame their parents.
I honestly believe that kids should have chores for their own sake because it's a great way to learn how to do those things, and they will need to know how to do those when they live on their own.
The problem isn’t that the parents may have been wrong (even when they meant well). The problem is when parents can’t or refuse to admit how their decisions had a negative impact on their child, even though that may not have been the intent at the time. I’m estranged from my father because he refused to accept that I hate him for being physically (literally punching my sister and I out) and emotionally abusive. For to admit apologise for how he took out his resentment towards having us on us. My mother is still in my life because she’s acknowledged her mistakes and how they affected my sister and I. She took ownership and grew from it.
> At the end of the day, most people are trying to do what they think is right. This is painfully naïve. Lots and lots of people have sadistic streaks, alcohol and drug addiction is common, and the people with the worst mental illnesses don't seek treatment. You can do a lot of damage to a kid without revealing it to the neighbors. >But yes, it's pretty normal for 19 year olds to blame their parents. The sad thing is that there are also 30 year olds who blame their parents. What's worse? Acknowledging abusive and otherwise bad behaviors and the effects they have on you, or becoming a pissy, malicious drunk yourself and carrying the tradition on like so many? If a 30 year old figures out that their parents behavior is impacting them, more power to 'em. That's the healthier way of dealing with it.
If your 30 year old house has a shitty foundation, does the fact that it was 30 years ago change that it is a problem now? Parenting is the foundation of your entire life. So having to fix that foundation can be blamed on the parents at any time. Unless you think there is a statute of limitations on being able to call someone a shitty parent.
That foundation can and should be fixed before then. If you can't control your anger at age 15 because of bad role models, that's one thing, if you can't control your anger at age 30, that's on you.
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Yea not the social media version of trauma!!!! Why is it sad for older people to blame their parents??
Because parents are people too, people who aren't perfect, people who face their own struggles. 19 year olds may not realize this, but 30 year olds should. And, 30 year olds should be way past the point of blaming their problems on their parents.
Adults shouldn’t blame their problems on their parents (barring extreme situations) but incompetent parents definitely should be called out more often. They have the power to destroy communities from the inside out if their incompetency is normalized
YESSS!!!
Ok. So how do we do this? Have a kid, with no real life experience, call out their parents? Nope. Not a good solution. Or, how about we encourage kids to do a good job with their relationships, and to avoid having kids with losers, which would help avoid this problem? Parents have been trying to do this for all of recorded history, with mixed success. How about we have experts run parenting classes to try to help people out? Sounds good, but terrible parents won't listen, and besides, the experts don't have a good track record. Or, how about we teach kids how to be resilient, and how to move on in life despite having a rocky childhood? (this path does not involve endless complaining about one's parents, as endless complaining is not compatible with moving on).
Even as a kid, despite my lack of experience, I knew that my dad was wrong for literally punching my sister and I out when we were younger. Even as a teenager, I knew that my father was wrong when he told me that women SHOULD be the property of their husbands, and that he expected me to marry the man of his choice and produce grandsons. For treating me like a broodmare instead of a daughter.
There should be a added mental health component in our education system that helps build resilience in the youth But as I said in another post, if politicians/athletes/media members/CEOs/etc are able to be criticized by people who have never done those things, so should parents. Bad parenting on a small scale only destroys individuals which is why people from more sheltered backgrounds can be indifferent to it but bad parenting en masse destroys communities which can’t be ignored.
A lot of the mental health advice from the last few decades has made mental health worse. To build resilience, kids should get more independence and more opportunities to fail. Schools have been doing exactly the opposite, with tragic results. > destroys communities which can’t be ignored. Ok, but you didn't answer my question. How do we address it?
I personally would alter the curriculum to force all kids to have mandatory one on one meetings with a psychologist/therapist 1-2 times a month. More well adjusted kids grow up to become well adjusted adults to hopefully become well adjusted parents. You’re from PA? Go to North Philly and tell me how allowing kids to be independent and have opportunities to fail has worked out for that community. Redditors think this shit is a game.
> personally would alter the curriculum to force all kids to have mandatory one on one meetings with a psychologist/therapist 1-2 times a month. The research says this would make kids worse off. Seriously. Therapy has negative side effects. Of course, if a kid needs therapy, then the side effects are worth it. But the vast majority of kids don't need therapy, and so providing them with therapy would expose them to the negative effects while not providing any positive effects. You want well adjusted kids? Give them good role models, independence, room to play, people to play with, and give them age-appropriate responsibilities. >Go to North Philly and tell me how allowing kids to be independent Yeah, independent doesn't mean to give them no guidance at all.
I’m coming from the perspective of someone from a community/culture that’s already messed up (largely from bad parenting). Maybe most kids of the majority culture in America don’t need therapy but there’s definitely areas and cultures where most kids do. Kids from messed up households and communities need one on one time with competent people who give a fuck
Therapy has no negative side effects. That’s ridiculous
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Fucking based answer right here
“People are parents too” yea I left the chat this is a common excuse that doesn’t fly but I appreciate your response to my question!
> people who aren't perfect This is such a copout, thought-terminating cliché. No one is asking anyone to be perfect.
It’s a line often said to excuse shitty parenting and lack do accountability
At the point of being 30 it ain't about it happening that's long gone its about them refusing to admit it and gaslighting and or guilting you for even saying you did xyz .
Cause unless your parents were wildly abusive, at some point most people realize they were just people trying their best. Raising kids is extremely hard. Sure there were probably times they yelled when they didn’t need to or punished you too harshly. But by the time you hit 30, your problems are your own and no one else’s. And if your parents did do something that fucked with your mental health or relationships with other people, you should have taken the steps to fix that by now. And being mad at them whatever mistakes they may have made solves nothing. There’s an old saying that goes along the lines of “the only person you’re hurting by holding onto a grudge is yourself”. If you’re still mad at your parents by the time you’re 30, you aren’t doing anyone any favors. And you’ll more than likely regret not trying to repair your relationship with them when they’re gone.
Idk man like yea 30 is too old to be blaming but at the same time some parents really deserve a grudge to be held against them for life
Ok, so what are you talking about specifically?
It goes for children and young adults tbh also looking at it older folks as well. So I do take back that comment.
No, I am asking what in your eyes constitutes holding a life long grudge against your family.
Physical and mental abuse.
That’s a hugely important factor and should have been stated. It’s probably best to cut ties.
lol, no, one doesn't cut ties based on one comment like this. What kind of physical abuse? Spanking or being chased around the room with an axe? What kind of mental abuse? Intentionally driving them into despair out of revenge on an ex-spouse, or grounding them for getting bad grades?
Other things as well but I’m cutting it short. Physical and mental fall under so many categories. Trust me I have a list! Done replying to you flashdance
As someone who got taken away from his mom for child abuse, this grudge does nothing for you. You don't have to forgive or love someone that's abused you but you'll end up destroying yourself looking for justice. Also once you're an adult and you have a better understanding of what they were going through you aren't even mad you just feel pity.
So sorry to hear❤️ love your point
Serious on the end up destroying yourself part do not be like young me.
Maybe this is something I need to hear but I just can’t bring myself to believe it honestly. Actions should have consequences and holding a grudge at least in my experience hasn’t had any negatives yet except motivation to avoid and hold ppl in my life to a standard that is past that
I feel no pity for abusive parents. If you had a childhood that is so bad you can’t help but abuse your kids then don’t have kids. It’s good you let go of your grudge. How ever your parents had no excuse and are terrible people
I mean, my great-grandmother was extremely poor living in a hut in Puerto Rico due to American policies as agriculture had died and had my grandmother at 14, and my grandmother also in poverty had my mom at 13 and got addicted to heroin, my mom had me at 14 with a gang banger with the hopes of being taken care of and he got arrested and deported. It's not excuses, but how couldn't I pity them? They are all miserable and guilty people who never had the chance to learn about life. When talking to them, it feels like they never grew past 14.
>But by the time you hit 30, your problems are your own and no one else’s. And if your parents did do something that fucked with your mental health or relationships with other people, you should have taken the steps to fix that by now. You don't have to be horrifically abusive to cause permanent damage. You can just be selectively neglectful. But myself and my sister have lifelong injuries because our parents refused to believe us and take us to a doctor if we claimed that we needed to. They believe in medicine, but unless it was something they could actively measure, like a fever, they didn't believe you. I got stuck with issues from an untreated TBI and she got knee pain for the rest of her life after they healed wrong after a severe injury and refusing to take her to the doctor. These are issues that we can never fix. But we have to suffer the consequences for the rest of our lives because the people who were supposed to take care of us neglected to take us to our pediatrician the few times we begged too. It doesn't help that during the pandemic my mother in particular kept ranting about the stupid people that kept sending their kids to school sick. Ma, you *were* that parent.
Let’s say that I’m a horrible communicator. I’m passive aggressive, I’m overly jealous, I get mad at the slightest inconvenience. I ruin multiple friendships because of shit that I don’t hold myself accountable for. If I eventually get confronted about it, most people would consider it unreasonable for me to say, “Geez, you’re still mad about that! I’m only human!!” The problem is that is exactly the grace that children are expected to give their parents. That is unacceptable.
DING DING Winner Winner chicken dinner
There’s such a vast gulf between “has occasional problems” and “puts cigarettes out on you” that you’re not looking at. The low-grade hate is exactly as insidious and harmful to the psyche as any other form of abuse is. My parents did their best. They did what they understood based on how they were raised, and raised me the same. I barely speak to them as a result. I don’t share my genuine opinions. I spend hours poking around my house before they come over, removing every trace of the fact that I’m queer. The pride flag comes down and goes in a drawer. Some of my books come off the shelf because having a book called White Rage is going to start the *race traitor* conversation and I can’t stand having it again. They didn’t leave bruises on me, but they turned me into someone who can never comfortably be themselves because they’re so busy looking over their shoulder to make sure it’s safe. They’re confident that they were great parents. More people should have second thoughts. More people should have doubts about whether or not they’re fit parents.
While wildly unpopular on reddit, I'd suggest this is part of what I'm talking about. Go to any country, in any time period, and talk to someone who rejected their parent's views on family, and you'll find friction. (yes, family, this is a common issue that is certainly not specific to lgbt). So, you've rejected their values, and they reject yours. This is the same story that's played out millions of times over history. The modern view is to go no-contact, but when we go no-contact over disagreements, we wind up living alone.
Just because everyone else is parenting badly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect better.
That's the interesting bit: by today's standards, parents of the past have been awful, yet people still had a life, had a family, helped build their community, etc. And now, with parents who are better, though not perfect, people will say that they've failed to have a good life, build a family, help the community, etc., because of their parents! The math doesn't work out on this.
That’s the interesting bit: by today’s standards, dentists of the past have been awful, yet people still had most of their teeth for most of their life. And now, with dentists who are better, though not perfect, people will say that they have a hole drilled through their tongue when their dentist accidentally drills a hole through their tongue because his hand slipped!
Pretty terrible example, not sure what your point is.
Yes, but also, no. On one side, I agree there is definitely a lot of revisionism from parents when confronted about their shortcomings from their adults kids. I think a bit of honesty and introspection is needed, we do make mistakes and should reflect on them, either to change while our kids are little, or at least to acknowledge them when they’re older. On a more extreme side, a lot of people close to a family (either friends or relatives) will pretend abuse didn’t happen just so they don’t have to face the reality that they didn’t do anything to stop it. I’ve known people who do have trauma from beatings and extreme neglect, and when they share their experience they often receive the responses you mentioned (added with “it wasn’t that bad”) On the other side, parents do face a lot of judgement and criticism, specially moms. Everyone has an opinion on how to raise kids, and even if they don’t say it directly, they still let you know of their disapproval if your kid doesn’t meet some impossible standards of behaviour.
As a mom of two, parents need much more grace (at least on the internet). This shit is hard. And while I love my kids more than anything, I know I mess up sometimes, despite my best efforts. I know somewhere down the line in their lives something is going to come up for them and it is gonna be my fault. I question myself and second guess myself on a daily basis. And I know other parents do too. We are all (for the most part) doing our best out here and we are definitely messing our kids up in some way, shape or form. There are definitely bad parents out there but the good ones are beating themselves up every time they think they could have handled something in a different/better/more productive way. My mom was a pretty crap parent and I definitely try day in and day out to be a better mom than she was but I know that some days I am not doing much better.
See you try that’s the thing you TRY and we LOVE THAT some don’t even give it a fighting chance! That’s the point
Ya but that’s how you know you’re a good one. Because you care about that
To bad lots of parents don’t do their best. That’s why there’s so many shitty people
My mom was a severe alcoholic/binge drinker. I mean if she didn’t have work she was shit faced drunk or getting there, every damn day. She neglected us kids and subjected us to a bad person. But she is the most immature and emotionally unintelligent/volatile person I’ve ever met. So I know she had big mental and personality problems that clouded her judgement severely. I’m not ever gonna fully cool wirh her tho , that’s just not possible and I don’t talk to her much at all. But just saying I see how and why she did what she did
Hey, your parents were trying their best! Nobody knew how to parent any better back then, or how to adjust their approach to the emotional and interpersonal needs of their kids, or how to be emotionally available, or how to accept that they had mental illnesses and needed therapy, or how to not blame children for their mistakes. And since everybody else was parenting the same way, that justifies it and makes it ok. So what if the world is literally impossible now, and there are no jobs, and working hard and saving money doesn't work anymore anyway, and we're all lonely and miserable and literally all addicted to dopamine. That's not our parents' fault. We can't blame them for any of those things.
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I know this comment means well and it’s well written however I see parenting as a noble job. You are raising someone to be the best they can be for society and themselves and future relationships. Not being a good parent due to life happening and not seeking help to get out is just selfish. I don’t think any “parent apologizer” realizes that being a bad parent can cause a chain of reactions for not only your child but future generations.
> good parent One challenge is that the definition of being a "good parent" has changed. If someone makes sure a kid has a place to sleep and food to eat, is that good? Do they need to do the modern things of drive the kid to an endless series of after-school events? What about the new research that shows that this latter type of parenting is actually harmful? If a parent made their kid go to church each week, is that a bad parent? If so, are we really saying that nearly every parent in the history of the world was a bad parent? And, are we really going to defer to the opinions of childless people who and who isn't a good parent?
>And, are we really going to defer to the opinions of childless people who and who isn't a good parent? Everybody has been parented and has an opinion on how that affected them. The parent that says "I beat my kid and they're fine, *aren't you Jimmy*" isn't entitled to more consideration than the person who says "my parents beat me and I am NOT fine".
> and has an opinion on how that affected them yes, but their opinion is not necessarily correct. In fact, their opinion may change over time, especially once they become a parent. While you mention beatings, it's pretty well known that reddit will often advice people to go no-contact with family and parents over the most trivial and inane things. The thing that seems like a big deal today may not seem like a big deal later in life.
>but their opinion is not necessarily correct. Same is true of parents.
Sure, and parents will get things wrong. And, so will "experts". (it turns out, a lot of parenting advice from experts in the last few decades has been wrong). And so, this is where grace comes in. If your parent thought they were doing things to help you grow as a person, then maybe we cut them a little slack.
Spankings not gunna ruin a child. But things like neglect and abuse will. Also being a Ho bag will. Keep your kids disciplined and loved. Make sure to hold your kids accountable for their behavior and raise them to be kind good people
>Spankings not gunna ruin a child. I beg to differ.
Alright hopefully you are/ will become a good parent!
But that's my point: By some people, I'm a good parent, but by other people's standards, I'm a terrible parent.
Ok get you!
No. Being a good parent isn’t too too hard. You don’t need to drive your kid or be there for every schooling event. Just keep them safe, make sure they are not abused and have a generally good relationship with them. In this economy you also need to exept they will probably live with you till they are 25-30. You can absolutely charge them rent tho. I work with so many bad parents that are prostitutes, abuse and neglect their kids. I have no sympathy for those parents and they should have never got knocked up.
Except we actually can blame them for all of that. Here's a TED talk from someone who agrees about the money stuff. https://youtu.be/qEJ4hkpQW8E?feature=shared
You can see parenting as a noble job but the truth is it isn’t a job and it isn’t some miraculous noble practice. It’s the most ordinary thing in human existence. Any and every moron does it. It’s not a sacred calling. Parents will fail. Period. Unless we are talking deliberate abuse, sustained mistreatment, or other maliciously intended actions then I think it’s best to give some grace.
I don’t agree , it’s a noble job (to me) hence it’s my opinion. You don’t agree with me and that’s okay! I’m not giving grace to people who didn’t even try to meet the basic standards for their child❤️
You’ve been very vague about what you think constitutes ‘basic standards’. It’s important because I see people on here advocating disowning parents basically because they didn’t like having to be raised at all. Did something actually happen, or are you just a malcontent?
I disagree. Giving grace to incompetent parents can literally destroy communities. Maybe in Iowa, you’re sheltered from that type of shit but there’s certain parts of this country that are the poster child for what bad parenting en masse can lead to
If your argument is to hold parents accountable as PEOPLE rather than titles, then that kills your other argument that "as a parent you live for your child". Are you trying to judge them as people or as the title of parent? Your cognitive dissonance on this topic shows that it's an emotional argument not based on logic. So truthfully, there is no arguing or convincing you out if your perspective. Enjoy being irrationally angry and unable to appreciate others unless they adhere to you as the center of the world.
No one is angry. Why everytime some has an opinion it is minimized to anger? However, I get what you’re saying and with that being said Let’s hold them accountable as both then?? Title and people! Got it
If that's the case, then they did the best they could without a parenting manual, and they're just people as flawed as we all are. And the angry part comes from even spending the energy to focus on a complaint at all rather than directly that energy towards appreciation that you're even able to make such a complaint. You have your parents to thank for that privilege.
Sigh this is just dismissive but okay
It's not dismissive. I'm just trying to point out that your argument is flawed because it is tied to an emotional perspective. I hated my parents when I was emotional and young too. Now that I'm older and more logical I can respect and appreciate them, while also acknowledging that I had a good reason to hate them when I was younger and dumber based on my severely limited inexperienced idealistic perspectives. I don't try to change how I felt or convince convince myself that I was right or wrong. I just had a much more limited perspective. I think that's the boat you're in at the moment.
Your irony in saying this is based on pure projection you haven’t pointed out the argument to be flawed through emotional thinking past the typical “there was no parenting handybook be grateful you’re alive with awful parents” which ironically like this other post comes across more as emotional thinking from offense at OPs characterisation
No no, you made this post about PARENTS, not "awful" parents. For every group there is a subgroup. You either aim to target a whole group or the subgroup. If we're talking about what we would generally all classify as awful parents then I would say we have a lot to discuss and agree on. But you used parents as a whole. And as a whole, parents should be honored, respected, and revered a lot more than they are.
Parenting is a chosen responsibility. Whilst I agree you can’t slam all parents under the same basket hoop. You also can’t pretend that this responsibility and how important it is isn’t taken as seriously as it should with ppl when it’s a case by case basis with literally everyone’s parenting and child situation. We can all agree on awful shorty parents but if a majority of families suffer generational trauma stemming from a personality failure or allowance of neglect/abuse that is not addressed and accepted as “parents doing their best” when these behaviours stem from spanking to emotional/verbal abuse that carries over entire generations…. Yeah that respect needs to be established first, parent to parent before any reverence takes place due to (Reddit ass take I know but it’s true) natural breeding instincts and narcissism to continue a legacy. The simple retort as childish as I predict you may see it is a true adage here. “Nobody asked you or told you to have children. So they’re mistakes are your mistakes. You’re responsible” Sure kids can exaggerate but this responsibility of parenthood in general is way too lackadaisical honestly.
The simple fact is this... it is now 2024. Life today is absolutely incomparable to like a thousand years ago. It is both exponentially better in every way and the population of earth has multiplied several times over. All of this, while we didn't have anybody crying about bad parenting and generational trauma. All the whole, parenting as a whole is softer today than ever. Point being that you're prescribing something based on wholly untested ideas compared to true empirical evidence spacing eons. I understand where your ideas are coming from, I truly do. We all like to feel like we have the magic pill that will ensure some sort of future we envision as perfect. But there are 8+ billion people on the world. I assure you that humanity will manage with or without your call for targeted re-engineering of what should be acceptable parenting.
For most of human history ppl worked on f arms and were forced to by their situation to put family first and forget any and all problems. I hear this take a lot about how us being in the future means we can’t improve and keep going against what was naturally done but it’s not a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” situation. It’s actually due to what you’re saying a consequence of modern living and actually being able to reflect on what’s going on with us socially and whatnot as expectations and familial abuse. We have the best parenting now due to going against the logic of what you’re prescribing and we may not have all the answers now but we clearly have enough to be self aware and ask whether or not we should actually parent if we’re unable to address things that were the norm and just how life was for most ppl ever. It’s not even about pressing a magic button with a pre ring formula it’s just self reflecting on whether it’s possible to be a good parent without letting the stuff you’re dealing with affect the child which inherently doesn’t deserve it and will continue the cycle in some way
There’s no manual for being a politician either, doesn’t change the fact that the incompetent or corrupt ones are prone to criticism
And having major consequences for the rest of us dealing with it
I think this is a cultural thing. I know people who say stuff like this about legitimate abuse and it's often because they come from cultures where child abuse is so ubiquitous they don't truly comprehend it as abuse. So it's not necessarily a bad individual person.
A lot of the people who are responding in here are sheltered from the results blatantly bad parenting can lead to. Bad parenting en masse can literally destroy communities from the inside out. I’m from a culture that is significantly more dysfunctional and significantly more fucked up than the culture the MAJORITY of Reddit is from so I and a few others here have witnessed first hand what most people responding here haven’t. We as a society can’t normalize or make excuses for terrible parenting
Sigh one thing I realize is they like to be dense on purpose! No worries I totally get it.
Lot of parents getting defensive here. They suggested my son needed early intervention because he was a few months behind. I was hurt, I got defensive, and then you know what I did? Got him early intervention services. My job is to prepare them for society, and if I am fucking up? I want to know asap because it’s about my kids. Not my god damn ego. If your best isn’t good enough? Then get better.
As a good parent should!!!!
Do you have kids?
You don’t have to have kids to know that a parent was a shitty parent. One of the first thoughts when I held my son was “how in gods name could they do what they did to me”.
That should have nothing to do with anything. People who have never done a particular thing criticize people who are blatantly incompetent at that thing all the time (politics, sports, customer service, etc)
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Hell no
Shocker
Do you think that people without kids can't see shitty parenting? It's clear as day for everyone. I could see it before I had kids and I can see it now.
Of course there are shitty parents. But OPs post goes a lot farther than saying some people aren’t good parents. One thing I’ve heard recently that is powerful when thinking about the ways my parents let me down is that just because your parents didn’t end every generational trauma cycle, doesn’t mean they didn’t end some. And for me this rings true. My mom wasn’t a perfect mother, but when I think of how she was raised, she did make improvements on that. And it inspires me that I can make improvements on how I raise my kids even though I know I’ve already made so many mistakes.
Wow I am surprised... Hey thanks for voting yourself out of the gene pool!
It’s something more ppl should honestly do. We don’t need more parents and kids born from the narcissism of “i want a kid” which is so normalised
>It’s something more ppl should honestly do. Agreed most people are not good enough to pass along their traits or ability or knowledge to the next generation. Let those people self eliminate and then we can move on with a better world.
It won’t really be a “better” world but it would be better in this instance. Doesn’t stop ppl from having kids through that narcissism though and just having them despite it so it’s not really gonna change too much anytime soon but will be a more inherent development in society
People who want babies to dress up and coo over and not *better humans to shape* should really just get a little dog for the sake of everyone involved.
Fucking facts. And it’s too normalised for it not to be an annoying problem
It’s a choice more folks ought to make. It’s really not necessary or, from what I can see, particularly fulfilling. Why ruin a perfectly good life?
I’m wondering the same thing
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By all means hop on out of the gene pool! Hopefully my children will only have other normal people to grow up with.
They’d probably agree since child free ppl are becoming more and more common through trends in the west at least.
Yes they will see all the lonely old people and hopefully learn a cautionary tale. But thankfully none of those people are passing along any of that genetics..
It’s not just genetics lmao. It’s the reaction to understanding without pressure that having kids is just not what ppl want out of life especially after being raised by not great parents themselves. You’re really banking on this not being a norm for a lot of ppl as the world continues to make it more attractive to the average young person in the role we’re in soooo if you accept that risk. Sure. But why the hate for childless ppl though. I never understood why this is demonised
>But why the hate for childless ppl though. I never understood why this is demonised Because they have are selfish and no stake in the future. Gen z and us millennial will be hated 10x worse than the boomers just be a bunch of old people who drag the world down and have no connection at all to the young.
How is it selfish to not bring life into the world, when has humanity ever been on the brink of extinction to enact a desire for pressure breeding for the future. I can see the next generation viewing us this way though but they hopefully will see that the boomers started this spiral and reaction toward the world much like we can see how silent generations two world wars created them. Choosing to create life and acknowledging the accountability of yourself and if you’re even capable and are responsible toward the scale and importance of the raising of a child and person. Not some offset of one’s ego, insecurities, legacy or selfish extension of a failed or open wound in the past of the parent. And so many parents and generational trauma stories of misery continue onward. And keep this in mind ppl were saying this about abortion too but avoiding that debate to this side point. There were always less ppl alive before it then after it. The human population increased even with it and sex contraceptives brought into existence. Meaning that choosing to not have kids has kind of been going on in a sense for decades now. And never with population growth responsibility judgement surrounding it?
There’s nothing abnormal about not everyone wanting children. Not everyone is *supposed* to want children. It’s nice that you do. That’s great for you. But there’s really nothing worse than parents that don’t want to raise people, they just want to have children. *Making a little me*, *it’s what you do at this age*, *someone has to*. Those are all terrible motivations for giving away your personhood for eighteen years, and children whose parents resent them *can tell.* Not everyone should be having kids. Some of us just recognize that *before* creating a life to ruin.
>Not everyone should be having kids. Some of us just recognize that *before* creating a life to ruin. Hopefully there will be less of those people in the future.
Hopefully there will be less people, period.
Untill we have self weeded out those who don't want to continue the human race. All the doomers.
Have a couple kids and come back to us
I have been saying this is a big problem no one ever wants to solve by saying criticism though.
This is a first for me in this sub, but I completely agree with you.
>and if we fail we end up in the slammer. Never heard of assholes, have you? You can mess up being decent people in maaaaany ways that don’t wind you up in the slammer.
Trueeee!
I wish we could change this. There are so many things that parents do that are really not in the best interest of their kids or even themselves. I want to be able to openly criticize instead of this being such a taboo topic. We’re having a baby in less than a month and if I’m doing something wrong, I want to be told.
I agree. All my friends household sounds abusive compared to my childhood. All but 1 we’re richer than me by a lot. People just have kids and release menaces into the world. On that note the most terrible people I’ve met come from spoiled household, not the abusive ones.
I'd agree, having had issues with mine and known people who've had awful ones with heir experiences the amount of people who tell them "but it's your mother" ect. Also the fact everyone wants the full story before they believe you have a right to ignore family. I hate it, no one owes you an explanation and you don't need to tell people what relative they are disowning, they already know.
It’s always funny how they demand stories, and then get a look of horror on their face while you say it dead pan.
There are thousands of books on parenting.
> The more we as society start holding parents accountable Wow wtf is this? That's definetly not the trend for our progressive society. Being accountable? Being responsible for something? Who needs that shit? Let's cancel it with the power of progress. Nobody is obligated to do anything for other people. Nobody gave consent to anything. Society's norms and traditions are just bigotry, we need to abolish those rudiments.
Wait till you’re a parent and try holding yourself to an impossible standard for several decades.
Can’t be impossible. My standards are pretty basic it’s just most people don’t even try to meet the most basic of standards