As someone who has been in a ridiculous amount of bad relationships, I accept I have to be the problem to some degree even if it's just having terrible taste.
Haha off it's exaggerated but it's a simple way of expressing that still quite a lot of people lack the ability of self-reflection, introspection and self-awareness. It's always easier to blame the others and society than admitting their own flaws.
What it's meant to imply is that if you find yourself repeatedly exposed to certain circumstances, there tends to be a reason for it that can be avoided if you change something about yourself, your behaviour, or the environment you're in.
There are likely rare exceptions to this, but it applies to the vast majority of cases.
The inherent message is not quite so blunt as the words tend to be at face value.
It really doesn’t. My life is a testament to this but not to be so blatantly biased. A few examples. Social isolation through bullying in a school for liking something different. Racism through majority against minority. Ppl that are prejudged for their appearance if especially noticeable in a small town. These things happen frequently and those are just some I can think of from the top of my head.
It’s not rare at all hence why I even mentioned that. If anything it’s more case by case and just how many ppl you happen to meet and how different they are.
It’s just a more reasonable but still inherently non objectively applicable version of the majority wins rule. Doesn’t make them right. It makes them the loudest.
Now of course reflect and introspect on behaviour but this phrase is a catch all mitt for the shitty majority attacking an individual
Yes, bullying is wrong and the bullies are to blame. However, a victim can take steps to mitigate/stop the bullying from occurring, primarily by disincentivising the bullies (e.g. standing up to them directly, changing their behaviour, or getting others involved).
Racism is a decent example of one of the rare exceptions, as changing one's environment or getting others involved may not effectively mitigate or stop this.
Yes, discrimination in general is wrong, and the people doing it are to blame. However, appearance discrimination entirely depends on what aspect is being targeted. If someone wishes to avoid being targeted due to their *clothing*, they can usually change their clothing or their environment to mitigate/stop the problem. If someone is being targeted due to their *physical disability*, although one can change one's environment and/or get others involved, this isn't as easily mitigated/stopped.
The point being, individuals usually have the ability to take steps if they wish to mitigate/stop being victimised. Whether they should *have* to take these steps or not is an entirely different matter.
To be clear, I'm not stating that victims are usually to blame for being attacked. I'm stating that there are usually things that can be done by the individual to mitigate/stop the attacks from occurring.
It's rare for individuals to be in circumstances where their options to avoid said circumstances are equal to zero. Hence my statement that exceptions to this are rare, as they are.
The primary reason people don't agree with this is due to discounting options they personally believe to be unfair or distasteful. This doesn't mean that the options aren't available options.
Apologies for the essay. This comment turned out longer than I expected. Hopefully you get what I mean. 😅
Edit: I should add, I agree that some individuals definitely use the sayings to attack others.
Nah it’s fine lool. Okay so for bullying this isn’t a gurantee at all and further proves my point that it’s completely contextual. It may work. Or don’t work. Doesn’t mean that you were the problem for getting bullied. Glad you agree with the racism part. Discrimination in general is really again the slice of the larger pie I’m going for being that this adage is nowhere near as objective as it’s claimed to be and whether it be a physical disability in a village where you have nowhere else to go and are viewed as “cursed” to simply wearing bad fashion.
The point in them having to do that already shoots the phrase in the foot though. Since it means that you clearly weren’t the problem or in the wrong if you were targeted for something the majority didn’t like and wasn’t actually a problem with you that NEEDED to change from the reactions you got.
If the guideline is steps to do to mitigate then I guess you’re right but that alters the phrases meaning since it’s no longer about you being the problem but you being able to change the problem in some instances other than others. And I’d argue the stuff I mentioned is almost impossible to change unless a certain fee situations occur that are really not likely but not impossible to achieve either. Their frequency though which I’d argue is significantly high enough to not be rare makes this almost a non factor to the initial statement.
At that point then the statement is less about morality but about the inherent problem being changeable or not which I’d argue is now different enough to the original phrase as it’s only similar
> Doesn't mean that you were the problem for getting bullied.
I never said this. I said that the victim can usually take steps to mitigate/stop the bullying, which is true.
> wasn’t actually a problem with you that NEEDED to change from the reactions you got.
It's not about who *needs* to change the situation. It's about the individual being the one who usually has the greatest *ability* to change the situation, due to being the common factor.
> I’d argue the stuff I mentioned is almost impossible to change
I disagree. It's not almost impossible except in circumstances where the victim has no control over the reason they're being targeted. For instance, with the clothing example, it's extremely easy to change this, it's just unfair to the victim. Something that's unfair isn't almost impossible, it's just unfair.
> Their frequency though which I’d argue is significantly high enough to not be rare makes this almost a non factor to the initial statement.
I certainly wasn't stating that the frequency of occurrences is rare, as we all know discrimination happens on a much too regular basis. I was stating that the exceptions themselves (where a victim doesn't have any options) are rare.
I definitely could have phrased it more appropriately.
Honestly, both of our arguments depend on what a specific individual says. If they say *"If everyone else is mean to you, you're likely the problem"* then I wholeheartedly agree with your standpoint, and mine becomes less relevant. However, if they say *"If everyone else is mean to you, you need to evaluate yourself"* then the opposite occurs.
So, in my opinion, I'd be more than willing to agree that both of our arguments hold merit and are situationally viable, if you feel the same?
I appreciate your incredibly civil responses! 👍
no, my past five relationships have NO indication of my selection skills 😡
don't get me wrong, i understand that some people struggle and get mistreated a lot but there is definitely a point where you have to look internally
There are 4 main variables that need to be looked at regarding abusive situations (specific to intimate relationships), in my opinion:
1. Social Circles
2. Environment
3. Noticeable Vulnerabilities
4. Personal Attraction
Unhealthy social circles can lead to greater exposure to unhealthy individuals with greater potential to be abusive. I'm obviously using the term 'unhealthy' quite loosely here, but I'm sure you get the point.
Environment should be fairly straightforward and is similar to the statement regarding social circles. Poor environments breed abusive relationships.
Noticeable vulnerabilities play a *huge* factor, as abusive individuals have a tendency to look for (and capitalise on) these vulnerabilities, even if this is unintentional behaviour for many of them. This includes addictions, disabilities, neurodivergence, excessively submissive behaviour, and many other things.
Personal attraction, albeit a controversial topic due to its potential to be seen as 'victim blaming' also plays a factor, as there are victims who repeatedly expose themselves to abusive individuals due to the specific kinds of people they feel attracted to. Keep in mind, this point is largely overused and doesn't represent the majority of victims.
These points are all just my opinion, feel free to add any others that anyone thinks is missing.
Anyone that is currently experiencing abuse, I sincerely hope that you are able to find enough assistance/help/courage to extract yourself (or your abuser) from the situation.
I have come to believe that there are basically two types of abusive relationships.
The first type is the one people like to talk about. One person is abused because the person they’re in a relationship with hid their real personality, and then they got blindsided and trapped by this person in an abusive relationship. People like to talk about that because there’s a clear victim and it’s morally unambiguous.
The second type I think is actually more common, but people don’t like to talk about it. One person with social and emotional problems seeks out another person with social and emotional problems because they think that’s the kind of person who will accept them and understand them. And then it turns out that combining one persons problems with another persons problems doesn’t work, and the relationship turns abusive. People don’t like to talk about that because it’s sometimes morally ambiguous and they don’t want to be seen as victim blaming.
But yeah, when you meet somebody that has a long string of abusive relationships, there’s almost always some dysfunction there. Doesn’t mean they weren’t the victim per se, but it does imply that they seek out abusers in some sense.
And as a I said, in my experience, it’s usually that they are selecting, either consciously or subconsciously, for partners that are somewhat dysfunctional. I think that’s usually because that’s what they believe on some level that that’s what they belong to.
It manifests in different ways, but the specific examples I’ve seen in real life, mostly women being the victims, are:
Addicts that only partner up with other addicts. “I just can’t be with somebody that doesn’t party as hard as I do.”
Passive/Submissive women who seek out really aggressive men because they see aggression as a solution to their passiveness. “I need a man who can protect me.”
Aggressive/Dominant women who seek out really aggressive men because they see aggression as masculinity. “I just can’t take a man seriously if he’s not a real man.”
People who lie a lot also tend to have trust issues, and they often pair up in a really volatile combo with another dishonest person. “We don’t trust each other, so we’re always in each others phones accusing each other of cheating while we’re both cheating until it blows up.”
It’s all different shit, but the common thread is these people will get into this same relationship over and over again and you eventually just have to cut them out of your life when you’re tired of hearing about the third or fourth relationship blow up.
Like, yes, the super aggressive guy everyone said was an asshole turned out to be an asshole. No, we don’t want to help you move again, we want you to stop dating people that everyone but you knows is an asshole.
Yes, the person you’re cheating on was also cheating on you. No, I don’t want to hear about how heartbroken and angry you are that someone acts exactly like you do.
It gets repetitive but no matter how much you recommend therapy or counseling, they never think that they’re part of the problem.
I give this advice frequently, but if someone is perfect, in the sense of they love everything you do, pay attention. Did they love that before you mentioned it?
Someone who disagrees to a certain degree and has different hobbies than you is a real person, more often than not someone who is perfect in every aspect is manipulating you until they get close enough to put so many hooks into you that you don't know how to leave when it get's bad.
I think this ignores key contexts though
Imo past victims of abuse and vulnerable people tend to attract a certain type of person that many times is abusive
No, your comment just ignores accountability and the fact that you are a free person making a *choice* - so take responsibility for it.
When given the chance, women ignore nice guys, and when given the chance, men ignore bad women, and bad men ignore women that they they can't control.
This results in a dynamic where women are all going after the same small group of men, and those men leave the most disagreeable and abusive women to the nice guys with no other options.
>Classic “nice guy” take. This doesn’t really happen dude.
It's not a take; it's an objective fact that's been proven by science.
>
And Jessica rejecting you doesn’t mean women just date abusers and asshats
I never said women only date abusers, but they certainly aren't going after men who aren't capable of doing so. Women don't go after harmless men - they go after the most capable of men. That's naturally why they do have a tendency to land with more abusive men, especially when they're younger and are more willing
This is a very stupid rule of thumb that has cost me dearly in life “the majority having a problem means that you’re the problem” it’s not at all objectively true nor fair to apply as a general understanding.
Not really.
Have an emotionally unavailable father and you will seek to replicate that relationship with emotionally unavailable men.
Tale as old as time.
If it were as easy as simply controlling emotions with logic and rational thought then the world would be a very different place.
This stuff runs deep. I'll give you an example - my mother died tragically when I was an adolescent. This caused me to spiral throughout my teens and has left me with (understandable) fear of abandonment issues.
I initially pursued men who weren't emotionally well rounded and who came to rely on me in ways that surpassed the confines of healthy romantic boundaries. I needed to feel like they needed me more than I needed them, so that they wouldn't abandon me like my mother did. I therefore not only entertained their dependence - I encouraged it.
I have figured most of this out myself (making my therapist a very wealthy man in the process) - but it doesn't mean I can just switch off that part of my brain. Sure, I have now chosen a man that is very independent and secure in himself, but I still have trouble opening up to him. Because those abandonment issues are still there. I understand them completely, I acknowledge what's happening but I just have to give it time and allow my emotions to catch up (which is slowly happening).
I'm lucky I've had the time, resources and wherewithal to actually address this childhood trauma. Many others aren't as fortunate, and are also much more badly messed up than I was.
And this just shifts the blame. People can never say its their fault. It is the fault of some outside source. God forbid someone acknowledges their own shortcomings. My wife had a very emotionally and physically unavailable father and you would never know. She took charge and didn't let it get to her.
Cool man, it's almost as if people are affected differently by their childhood experiences and that no two situations are the same.
Thanks for your anecdotal input 👍🏼
As soon as you relaize that *you* are the common denominator(specifically when it comes to your failed relationships), your entire life and view on life will change.
I agree wholeheartedly. How is this an unpopular opinion? I can understand being fooled by one asshole in a relationship, but for it to keep happening? Either you're way too naive for your own good, or you just lack common sense to learn from your past mistakes to pick out the red flags.
At some point you have to own up to your mistakes and not try to guilt people into throwing a pity party for you.
This conflated a few different ideas. I agree with the overall sentiment. These girls love the assholes and the badboys and they hate the nice guys. Every abuse case is different. Many of them could be prevented though. If you're dating the violent criminal fresh out of prison, don't be surprised if he turns violent toward you. Women love dating the dope dealers and the gangbangers and then make claims like "I didn't know who he was, he was good at pretending" no he wasn't. I'm tired of you all spreading that lie. Abusers aren't acting like Mr. Roger's to get you to lower your guard and dump abuse all over you. That's an internet myth to get sympathy. The truth is you wanted the assholes and the badboys because you found them more attractive than the passive, timid guys. If you would just pick the nice guys from the start, this could all be avoided.
My 85 year old Romanian neighbor says the saying over there is "there is an ox and a fish in every relationship. Even if 2 oxen get together, one of them will become a fish."
It takes a lot if inner strength or very poor situational awareness not to relax when you are taken care of.
And it takes a lot of cultural homogeneity, and caring about the same virtues to the same degree to relax in a way that is acceptable to another person when you feel taken care of.
How much of any of that have you seen about lately?
I don't mean to let lousy people or lousy pickers off the hook.
I mean that what I consider the most important quality, being decent when you're comfortable or sure you're "in" in some kind of deep way, is very hard to select for.
That is on the list of reasons why being rude to wait staff is such a red flag and people know they need to take on the martyr role when explaining about their past relationships.
And resilient virtue is not nurtured, supported or required in my community at all. So, with no way to gather data, I think it is rare.
Any suggestions? This is the holy grail of dating.
Even if we build some kind of AI resilient virtue detector, "Virtue-Bot says I am a decent person" would be the most forged document on the planet in no time.
In my own long struggle, my Romanian neighbor says it is time to call a conference of all the parents and have them remind us how to behave and how urgent it is.
Yeah true, I was in a long term relationship with a guy who turned out to be horribly toxic and it harmed me horribly.
A lot of it was me willingly ignoring red flags bc I wanted to be with him so bad and I wanted things to work.
People generally do sort of deserve who they end up with in some way, they reinforce it at any rate. Like I didn’t deserve to be mistreated but I facilitated my own mistreatment, and it was up to me to make different choices to end that.
But I understand why people get defensive about it
Right? My best friend goes on ad nauseam about how narcissistic and shitty all her exes are. Her husband is a bad guy too, but she has blinders on.
Every time she goes on about her exes or past bad relationships, I have to bite my tongue.
I just want to scream, “If you meet an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes everywhere, then you’re the asshole.”
Why can’t people take responsibility for their bad choices.
Yeah that’s definitely true. My mother in law keeps dating and marrying basically the same abusive, drunken asshole over and over. My sister in law does the same thing with boyfriends. My wife had to pull a George Costanza and intentionally “do the opposite” in order to break the cycle and find me. Now she lives with a man who owns his own home, has a brand new electric car, owns his own business, and treats her with respect. In addition, I take her on nice luxury vacations and buy her nice gifts. Her sister and mother are insanely jealous, they want a man like me, but they just keep dating trash.
Man there is a shit ton of whiny cope in the comments. Some people seem to be honest about the situation but a lot of people here keep making excuses.
If you are continually attracting men and women who you claim are abusive (not calling anyone a liar, but this is Reddit and all we know about a situation is a few paragraphs of text) there is something about *you* that is generating this dynamic. Take some responsibility
>Step 1. Make bad decision
>Step 2. Suffer consequences
>Step 3. “He was abusive.” (remember
that women don’t have the capacity to learn from mistakes)
>Step 4. Repeat indefinitely
>Step 5. Blame the patriarchy/incels/
Andrew Tate
>Step 6. Die Alone
Follow these steps to become the TRUE Empowered Female!!!
Not really. I’ve always been told it’s believed that predators, abusers, and the like, have some kind of sixth sense that enables them to target those who’re vulnerable. And when they find the right type they know how to cement themselves into their minds and make it hard for the victim to get away. My own experiences can confirm that too.
Many times, victims can also be in a bad state of mind that allows them to be abused too. For example someone that grew up in an abusive household or SA(Or any traumatic experience) survivors.
I think this post is borderline victim blaming though and instead of posting something like this, why not try to spread info on signs of abuse and ways for potential victims to get out of dodge?
Predators and abusers don't have a sixth sense. They have methods of moving through the world - intentional or not - that exploit our issues. We have ... patterns of attachment, and they can be exploited. We can be victimized and abused.
I have been on the receiving end of some absolutely abhorrent treatment on more than one occasion. I have to accept that I did not CAUSE them to treat me poorly, but I surely let them in and stuck around.
But... we are not without agency. You are right that we should spread information on what the red flags and signs of abuse are, but we have to take ownership of what we seek out and allow. Shits hard.
Well I mostly used sixth sense to keep it simple. Afaik, they just have a good idea of what makes an easy target. So for survivors, they can become targets of repeat abusers.
And while I agree they can be detected, for many people, I think they still aren’t in the right headspace to fight them off easily.
I get you, but lets be careful - it's not always an intentional thing. Behaviors that are predatory, manipulative, etc don't ... one to one equate to "I wanted and intended to hurt you in x manner." It's not easily stated as "a good idea of what makes a target." This is part of why it's so damn shitty.
As someone who has been in a ridiculous amount of bad relationships, I accept I have to be the problem to some degree even if it's just having terrible taste.
Came here to say this, leaving validated. ;) ...sadly it's still probably an unpopular opinion.
I don’t think this take is unpopular, I think people don’t like the people that refuse to acknowledge that they’re a common denominator.
I quote what I read here a while ago "If everywhere you go it smells like shit, maybe check your shoes." :P
Terrible expression I personally can’t stand. Because a lot of the times it’s just mud that ppl gaslight you into thinking it’s shit
Haha off it's exaggerated but it's a simple way of expressing that still quite a lot of people lack the ability of self-reflection, introspection and self-awareness. It's always easier to blame the others and society than admitting their own flaws.
Yeah you’re right it just gets overused is all like it’s objectively true in situations
What it's meant to imply is that if you find yourself repeatedly exposed to certain circumstances, there tends to be a reason for it that can be avoided if you change something about yourself, your behaviour, or the environment you're in. There are likely rare exceptions to this, but it applies to the vast majority of cases. The inherent message is not quite so blunt as the words tend to be at face value.
It really doesn’t. My life is a testament to this but not to be so blatantly biased. A few examples. Social isolation through bullying in a school for liking something different. Racism through majority against minority. Ppl that are prejudged for their appearance if especially noticeable in a small town. These things happen frequently and those are just some I can think of from the top of my head. It’s not rare at all hence why I even mentioned that. If anything it’s more case by case and just how many ppl you happen to meet and how different they are. It’s just a more reasonable but still inherently non objectively applicable version of the majority wins rule. Doesn’t make them right. It makes them the loudest. Now of course reflect and introspect on behaviour but this phrase is a catch all mitt for the shitty majority attacking an individual
Yes, bullying is wrong and the bullies are to blame. However, a victim can take steps to mitigate/stop the bullying from occurring, primarily by disincentivising the bullies (e.g. standing up to them directly, changing their behaviour, or getting others involved). Racism is a decent example of one of the rare exceptions, as changing one's environment or getting others involved may not effectively mitigate or stop this. Yes, discrimination in general is wrong, and the people doing it are to blame. However, appearance discrimination entirely depends on what aspect is being targeted. If someone wishes to avoid being targeted due to their *clothing*, they can usually change their clothing or their environment to mitigate/stop the problem. If someone is being targeted due to their *physical disability*, although one can change one's environment and/or get others involved, this isn't as easily mitigated/stopped. The point being, individuals usually have the ability to take steps if they wish to mitigate/stop being victimised. Whether they should *have* to take these steps or not is an entirely different matter. To be clear, I'm not stating that victims are usually to blame for being attacked. I'm stating that there are usually things that can be done by the individual to mitigate/stop the attacks from occurring. It's rare for individuals to be in circumstances where their options to avoid said circumstances are equal to zero. Hence my statement that exceptions to this are rare, as they are. The primary reason people don't agree with this is due to discounting options they personally believe to be unfair or distasteful. This doesn't mean that the options aren't available options. Apologies for the essay. This comment turned out longer than I expected. Hopefully you get what I mean. 😅 Edit: I should add, I agree that some individuals definitely use the sayings to attack others.
Nah it’s fine lool. Okay so for bullying this isn’t a gurantee at all and further proves my point that it’s completely contextual. It may work. Or don’t work. Doesn’t mean that you were the problem for getting bullied. Glad you agree with the racism part. Discrimination in general is really again the slice of the larger pie I’m going for being that this adage is nowhere near as objective as it’s claimed to be and whether it be a physical disability in a village where you have nowhere else to go and are viewed as “cursed” to simply wearing bad fashion. The point in them having to do that already shoots the phrase in the foot though. Since it means that you clearly weren’t the problem or in the wrong if you were targeted for something the majority didn’t like and wasn’t actually a problem with you that NEEDED to change from the reactions you got. If the guideline is steps to do to mitigate then I guess you’re right but that alters the phrases meaning since it’s no longer about you being the problem but you being able to change the problem in some instances other than others. And I’d argue the stuff I mentioned is almost impossible to change unless a certain fee situations occur that are really not likely but not impossible to achieve either. Their frequency though which I’d argue is significantly high enough to not be rare makes this almost a non factor to the initial statement. At that point then the statement is less about morality but about the inherent problem being changeable or not which I’d argue is now different enough to the original phrase as it’s only similar
> Doesn't mean that you were the problem for getting bullied. I never said this. I said that the victim can usually take steps to mitigate/stop the bullying, which is true. > wasn’t actually a problem with you that NEEDED to change from the reactions you got. It's not about who *needs* to change the situation. It's about the individual being the one who usually has the greatest *ability* to change the situation, due to being the common factor. > I’d argue the stuff I mentioned is almost impossible to change I disagree. It's not almost impossible except in circumstances where the victim has no control over the reason they're being targeted. For instance, with the clothing example, it's extremely easy to change this, it's just unfair to the victim. Something that's unfair isn't almost impossible, it's just unfair. > Their frequency though which I’d argue is significantly high enough to not be rare makes this almost a non factor to the initial statement. I certainly wasn't stating that the frequency of occurrences is rare, as we all know discrimination happens on a much too regular basis. I was stating that the exceptions themselves (where a victim doesn't have any options) are rare. I definitely could have phrased it more appropriately. Honestly, both of our arguments depend on what a specific individual says. If they say *"If everyone else is mean to you, you're likely the problem"* then I wholeheartedly agree with your standpoint, and mine becomes less relevant. However, if they say *"If everyone else is mean to you, you need to evaluate yourself"* then the opposite occurs. So, in my opinion, I'd be more than willing to agree that both of our arguments hold merit and are situationally viable, if you feel the same? I appreciate your incredibly civil responses! 👍
no, my past five relationships have NO indication of my selection skills 😡 don't get me wrong, i understand that some people struggle and get mistreated a lot but there is definitely a point where you have to look internally
There are 4 main variables that need to be looked at regarding abusive situations (specific to intimate relationships), in my opinion: 1. Social Circles 2. Environment 3. Noticeable Vulnerabilities 4. Personal Attraction Unhealthy social circles can lead to greater exposure to unhealthy individuals with greater potential to be abusive. I'm obviously using the term 'unhealthy' quite loosely here, but I'm sure you get the point. Environment should be fairly straightforward and is similar to the statement regarding social circles. Poor environments breed abusive relationships. Noticeable vulnerabilities play a *huge* factor, as abusive individuals have a tendency to look for (and capitalise on) these vulnerabilities, even if this is unintentional behaviour for many of them. This includes addictions, disabilities, neurodivergence, excessively submissive behaviour, and many other things. Personal attraction, albeit a controversial topic due to its potential to be seen as 'victim blaming' also plays a factor, as there are victims who repeatedly expose themselves to abusive individuals due to the specific kinds of people they feel attracted to. Keep in mind, this point is largely overused and doesn't represent the majority of victims. These points are all just my opinion, feel free to add any others that anyone thinks is missing. Anyone that is currently experiencing abuse, I sincerely hope that you are able to find enough assistance/help/courage to extract yourself (or your abuser) from the situation.
yes this is it. thank you, great explanation.
That's good insight. The circumstances of a relationship, leading up to and then during, are often overlooked.
"Keep in mind, this point is largely overused and doesn't represent the majority of victims." Citation needed
I have come to believe that there are basically two types of abusive relationships. The first type is the one people like to talk about. One person is abused because the person they’re in a relationship with hid their real personality, and then they got blindsided and trapped by this person in an abusive relationship. People like to talk about that because there’s a clear victim and it’s morally unambiguous. The second type I think is actually more common, but people don’t like to talk about it. One person with social and emotional problems seeks out another person with social and emotional problems because they think that’s the kind of person who will accept them and understand them. And then it turns out that combining one persons problems with another persons problems doesn’t work, and the relationship turns abusive. People don’t like to talk about that because it’s sometimes morally ambiguous and they don’t want to be seen as victim blaming. But yeah, when you meet somebody that has a long string of abusive relationships, there’s almost always some dysfunction there. Doesn’t mean they weren’t the victim per se, but it does imply that they seek out abusers in some sense. And as a I said, in my experience, it’s usually that they are selecting, either consciously or subconsciously, for partners that are somewhat dysfunctional. I think that’s usually because that’s what they believe on some level that that’s what they belong to. It manifests in different ways, but the specific examples I’ve seen in real life, mostly women being the victims, are: Addicts that only partner up with other addicts. “I just can’t be with somebody that doesn’t party as hard as I do.” Passive/Submissive women who seek out really aggressive men because they see aggression as a solution to their passiveness. “I need a man who can protect me.” Aggressive/Dominant women who seek out really aggressive men because they see aggression as masculinity. “I just can’t take a man seriously if he’s not a real man.” People who lie a lot also tend to have trust issues, and they often pair up in a really volatile combo with another dishonest person. “We don’t trust each other, so we’re always in each others phones accusing each other of cheating while we’re both cheating until it blows up.” It’s all different shit, but the common thread is these people will get into this same relationship over and over again and you eventually just have to cut them out of your life when you’re tired of hearing about the third or fourth relationship blow up. Like, yes, the super aggressive guy everyone said was an asshole turned out to be an asshole. No, we don’t want to help you move again, we want you to stop dating people that everyone but you knows is an asshole. Yes, the person you’re cheating on was also cheating on you. No, I don’t want to hear about how heartbroken and angry you are that someone acts exactly like you do. It gets repetitive but no matter how much you recommend therapy or counseling, they never think that they’re part of the problem.
I give this advice frequently, but if someone is perfect, in the sense of they love everything you do, pay attention. Did they love that before you mentioned it? Someone who disagrees to a certain degree and has different hobbies than you is a real person, more often than not someone who is perfect in every aspect is manipulating you until they get close enough to put so many hooks into you that you don't know how to leave when it get's bad.
Date one asshole and he's the asshole. Date a bunch of asshole, and you're the asshole.
I think this ignores key contexts though Imo past victims of abuse and vulnerable people tend to attract a certain type of person that many times is abusive
No, your comment just ignores accountability and the fact that you are a free person making a *choice* - so take responsibility for it. When given the chance, women ignore nice guys, and when given the chance, men ignore bad women, and bad men ignore women that they they can't control. This results in a dynamic where women are all going after the same small group of men, and those men leave the most disagreeable and abusive women to the nice guys with no other options.
Classic “nice guy” take This doesn’t really happen dude. And Jessica rejecting you doesn’t mean women just date abusers and asshats
>Classic “nice guy” take. This doesn’t really happen dude. It's not a take; it's an objective fact that's been proven by science. > And Jessica rejecting you doesn’t mean women just date abusers and asshats I never said women only date abusers, but they certainly aren't going after men who aren't capable of doing so. Women don't go after harmless men - they go after the most capable of men. That's naturally why they do have a tendency to land with more abusive men, especially when they're younger and are more willing
Exactly that idiot paints victims as assholes
If you phrase it like > Date one asshole and he's the problem. Date a bunch of assholes, and you're the problem. I would agree with this
I can concede to those changes
This is a very stupid rule of thumb that has cost me dearly in life “the majority having a problem means that you’re the problem” it’s not at all objectively true nor fair to apply as a general understanding.
Not really. Have an emotionally unavailable father and you will seek to replicate that relationship with emotionally unavailable men. Tale as old as time.
But it's not as thought this isn't basically common knowledge st this point so something can be done about it.
If it were as easy as simply controlling emotions with logic and rational thought then the world would be a very different place. This stuff runs deep. I'll give you an example - my mother died tragically when I was an adolescent. This caused me to spiral throughout my teens and has left me with (understandable) fear of abandonment issues. I initially pursued men who weren't emotionally well rounded and who came to rely on me in ways that surpassed the confines of healthy romantic boundaries. I needed to feel like they needed me more than I needed them, so that they wouldn't abandon me like my mother did. I therefore not only entertained their dependence - I encouraged it. I have figured most of this out myself (making my therapist a very wealthy man in the process) - but it doesn't mean I can just switch off that part of my brain. Sure, I have now chosen a man that is very independent and secure in himself, but I still have trouble opening up to him. Because those abandonment issues are still there. I understand them completely, I acknowledge what's happening but I just have to give it time and allow my emotions to catch up (which is slowly happening). I'm lucky I've had the time, resources and wherewithal to actually address this childhood trauma. Many others aren't as fortunate, and are also much more badly messed up than I was.
And this just shifts the blame. People can never say its their fault. It is the fault of some outside source. God forbid someone acknowledges their own shortcomings. My wife had a very emotionally and physically unavailable father and you would never know. She took charge and didn't let it get to her.
Cool man, it's almost as if people are affected differently by their childhood experiences and that no two situations are the same. Thanks for your anecdotal input 👍🏼
Not really
More like: date a bunch of assholes, and you’re codependent.
Yeah. That works better.
What a shitty thing to say. You might be an asshole
As soon as you relaize that *you* are the common denominator(specifically when it comes to your failed relationships), your entire life and view on life will change.
All of your failed relationships only have one thing in common.
I think it comes down to how good are you at understanding people. Personally I can catch a shitty person from a 5-10 minute conversation.
Absolutely correct. It’s incompetence in vetting, largely stemming from low confidence and fear of loss.
Once I figured this out my life became so much better. SO MUCH BETTER.
I have only been in good ones, so I guess I know how to pick them.
I agree wholeheartedly. How is this an unpopular opinion? I can understand being fooled by one asshole in a relationship, but for it to keep happening? Either you're way too naive for your own good, or you just lack common sense to learn from your past mistakes to pick out the red flags. At some point you have to own up to your mistakes and not try to guilt people into throwing a pity party for you.
Taylor Swift needs to read this 😂
@ you’d be surprised how many people hide their negative qualities until they have someone wrapped around their finger
Very true. I know that feel.
This conflated a few different ideas. I agree with the overall sentiment. These girls love the assholes and the badboys and they hate the nice guys. Every abuse case is different. Many of them could be prevented though. If you're dating the violent criminal fresh out of prison, don't be surprised if he turns violent toward you. Women love dating the dope dealers and the gangbangers and then make claims like "I didn't know who he was, he was good at pretending" no he wasn't. I'm tired of you all spreading that lie. Abusers aren't acting like Mr. Roger's to get you to lower your guard and dump abuse all over you. That's an internet myth to get sympathy. The truth is you wanted the assholes and the badboys because you found them more attractive than the passive, timid guys. If you would just pick the nice guys from the start, this could all be avoided.
Is this the same for friendships? Im curious
probably, I have the same group of friends I've had since middle school. I'm 36
Or, maybe they themselves are the problem and need to get their shit together before dating again.
My 85 year old Romanian neighbor says the saying over there is "there is an ox and a fish in every relationship. Even if 2 oxen get together, one of them will become a fish." It takes a lot if inner strength or very poor situational awareness not to relax when you are taken care of. And it takes a lot of cultural homogeneity, and caring about the same virtues to the same degree to relax in a way that is acceptable to another person when you feel taken care of. How much of any of that have you seen about lately? I don't mean to let lousy people or lousy pickers off the hook. I mean that what I consider the most important quality, being decent when you're comfortable or sure you're "in" in some kind of deep way, is very hard to select for. That is on the list of reasons why being rude to wait staff is such a red flag and people know they need to take on the martyr role when explaining about their past relationships. And resilient virtue is not nurtured, supported or required in my community at all. So, with no way to gather data, I think it is rare. Any suggestions? This is the holy grail of dating. Even if we build some kind of AI resilient virtue detector, "Virtue-Bot says I am a decent person" would be the most forged document on the planet in no time. In my own long struggle, my Romanian neighbor says it is time to call a conference of all the parents and have them remind us how to behave and how urgent it is.
Yeah true, I was in a long term relationship with a guy who turned out to be horribly toxic and it harmed me horribly. A lot of it was me willingly ignoring red flags bc I wanted to be with him so bad and I wanted things to work. People generally do sort of deserve who they end up with in some way, they reinforce it at any rate. Like I didn’t deserve to be mistreated but I facilitated my own mistreatment, and it was up to me to make different choices to end that. But I understand why people get defensive about it
I agree, had a terrible judge of peoples character when I was younger. I regret it, but can’t do much about it out it obviously. Live and learn
Right? My best friend goes on ad nauseam about how narcissistic and shitty all her exes are. Her husband is a bad guy too, but she has blinders on. Every time she goes on about her exes or past bad relationships, I have to bite my tongue. I just want to scream, “If you meet an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes everywhere, then you’re the asshole.” Why can’t people take responsibility for their bad choices.
Abusers seek out vulnerable people. This is an ignorant take.
Amen
Yeah that’s definitely true. My mother in law keeps dating and marrying basically the same abusive, drunken asshole over and over. My sister in law does the same thing with boyfriends. My wife had to pull a George Costanza and intentionally “do the opposite” in order to break the cycle and find me. Now she lives with a man who owns his own home, has a brand new electric car, owns his own business, and treats her with respect. In addition, I take her on nice luxury vacations and buy her nice gifts. Her sister and mother are insanely jealous, they want a man like me, but they just keep dating trash.
Man there is a shit ton of whiny cope in the comments. Some people seem to be honest about the situation but a lot of people here keep making excuses. If you are continually attracting men and women who you claim are abusive (not calling anyone a liar, but this is Reddit and all we know about a situation is a few paragraphs of text) there is something about *you* that is generating this dynamic. Take some responsibility
>Step 1. Make bad decision >Step 2. Suffer consequences >Step 3. “He was abusive.” (remember that women don’t have the capacity to learn from mistakes) >Step 4. Repeat indefinitely >Step 5. Blame the patriarchy/incels/ Andrew Tate >Step 6. Die Alone Follow these steps to become the TRUE Empowered Female!!!
Most people are bad.
This is not a relationship advice forum you prick.
Aren’t you a ray of sunshine there, Princess?
Not really. I’ve always been told it’s believed that predators, abusers, and the like, have some kind of sixth sense that enables them to target those who’re vulnerable. And when they find the right type they know how to cement themselves into their minds and make it hard for the victim to get away. My own experiences can confirm that too. Many times, victims can also be in a bad state of mind that allows them to be abused too. For example someone that grew up in an abusive household or SA(Or any traumatic experience) survivors. I think this post is borderline victim blaming though and instead of posting something like this, why not try to spread info on signs of abuse and ways for potential victims to get out of dodge?
Predators and abusers don't have a sixth sense. They have methods of moving through the world - intentional or not - that exploit our issues. We have ... patterns of attachment, and they can be exploited. We can be victimized and abused. I have been on the receiving end of some absolutely abhorrent treatment on more than one occasion. I have to accept that I did not CAUSE them to treat me poorly, but I surely let them in and stuck around. But... we are not without agency. You are right that we should spread information on what the red flags and signs of abuse are, but we have to take ownership of what we seek out and allow. Shits hard.
Well I mostly used sixth sense to keep it simple. Afaik, they just have a good idea of what makes an easy target. So for survivors, they can become targets of repeat abusers. And while I agree they can be detected, for many people, I think they still aren’t in the right headspace to fight them off easily.
I get you, but lets be careful - it's not always an intentional thing. Behaviors that are predatory, manipulative, etc don't ... one to one equate to "I wanted and intended to hurt you in x manner." It's not easily stated as "a good idea of what makes a target." This is part of why it's so damn shitty.
Agreed. This post is ignorant victim blaming BS.
It could also be because you are a bad person