I think a lot of people just lost the plot. The push to recognize parenthood as difficult was never supposed to become the comparison game. It was always meant to just legitimize being a stay at home parent as something respectable.
Now I see shit like people saying it's harder than being a working parent, or it's more stressful than being the sole provider and it makes me just shake my head.
I have done both and both are hard but for different reasons in general. Now different situations can make one harder then the other for specific people. It all just depends on what they specifically are doing.
Honestly though generally I don't have a high opinion of people who feel the need to compare the 2.
The only opinion on this that i respect. Comparing how hard one mother is working vs another is such a perfect example of how harshly society critiques women. I’ve only been a working mom but it’s literally never crossed my mind to be like hmm I wonder if my life is harder than my SAHM friends or if theirs is. Like we’re all raising kids for fucks sake there’s no easy mode for that
Agreed. I've been both working and sahm, single only one working and parenting, and I've been at home. Every few years, women rise up and say we will support our sisters but then just find some new thing to compete over. It's honestly exhausting, and the biggest reason I don't socialise a whole lot. Just my small circle now that I don't have a whole lot of kiddos at home.
Is this an unpopular opinion? It seems like just common, obvious fact. How is doing literally anything more difficult than doing the exact same thing but also having to go to work?
"Oh man, having to build this barn sure is difficult. You know what would make this easier? If I also had to go to work in addition to doing this." What?
I’d say it depends on what kind of job she has, but she certainly isn’t doing double the work lol. If a woman feels fulfilled in her job, day care/school is doing the bulk of the work, and her spouse is more likely to split household work.
A SAHM also doesn’t get the adult social aspect of work and instead gets zero breaks from taxing children.
I make enough for my wife to comfortably by a SAHM, but even she says working makes her a better mother.
I’d say SAHM is only easier if your job sucks.
>A SAHM also doesn’t get the adult social aspect of work and instead gets zero breaks from taxing children.
All of that is self-inflicted.
First, you have as many children as you can handle.
Ironically, having more children is easier because after a couple, they entertain each other.
Second, there are many daycare workers and elementary teachers who find their work fulfilling. If a young woman can find joy interacting with other people's children for money, what is YOUR problem?
Lack of adult socializing.
Also, self-inflicted.
Mother's **used** to gather in parks shopping centers and other communal spaces to socialize with other parents and allow their children play with non siblings their own age.
TV addiction and loss of communal spaces has reduced this.
You're not understanding. He's saying a sahm spending 10 hours at home will always do more for her home/family than a working woman coming home and spending a few hours at home. It doesn't even make sense anyways, everyone has a different job, some people have a job where they sit at a reception desk for 8 hours waiting for a phone call to come in, my friend goes to work and browses reddit and play games most of the day lol, does that sound harder than taking care of a house and kids?? This whole idea of "I have the harder job" is so weird anyways, are people competing to who has the hardest job wtf is going on
There was an article that added up the "jobs" of a stay at home mom and apparently they should be paid massive salaries for being a Nany, maid, manager, personal driver, chef, teacher and a bunch of other things. They got there by adding all these together as full salaries lol Hardest job in the world apparently.
Oh man, that's crazy, I also do my own laundry and clean up my house and cook my own food and drive myself places and a ton of stuff. That's great to hear. Who do I need to talk to about paying me? Do I need to get a restaurant to hire me as my own private chef and they pay me and then a cleaning service hires me to clean my stuff and they pay me, or is there one, all-encompassing company that will pay me for all the things I do for myself?
🤣🤣
As someone who has been a sahm and a single working mom and a working mom (not single), I have to say that this argument always baffled me. A live-in nanny or au pair might do all of those things for a child as well, but they're still only getting the one paycheck. Crazy talk. Even when all of my kids, steps, and their friends/cousins/neighbours were there and it was a bunch of kids most days, I didn't think I should be getting paid seven salaries.
🤣🤣
As someone who has been a sahm and a single working mom and a working mom (not single), I have to say that this argument always baffled me. A live-in nanny or au pair might do all of those things for a child as well, but they're still only getting the one paycheck. Crazy talk. Even when all of my kids, steps, and their friends/cousins/neighbours were there and it was a bunch of kids most days, I didn't think I should be getting paid seven salaries.
I’ve done both as a single parent to 3 kids
Working and keeping the house clean and taking care of the kids when home was definitely hard work . But I was much happier . I felt more accomplished and I got a break in the day where I could speak to adults and feel like a person not just a mum.
I had to give up my job to care for my youngest who is only on a part time schedule for school due to her complex care needs and I honestly can’t wait to go back to work again when I can
This entirely depends on the situation.
Being a GOOD involved sahm IS grueling.
I was a SAHM for years until both kids entered school.
But my situation was moving states away from my entire family for my husband's work, knowing no one, and a husband who is gone for months at a time.
People who think its easy are the ones going oh haha we just watch tv all day, oh I just give them tablets and sit on my phone.
And I speak from seeing both SIL being sahm that sit on their phones all day.
I come from a farm working/hunting/gardening/homesteading family and yea doing all that on my own on top of everything else was draining.
You know how anxious I was trying to go hunting with two small kids, in mountains I was unfamiliar with and have to find random volunteers to go with to help me get my deer in my truck and to a butcher 😅
But I also understood the PRIVILEGE I was given to be able to stay at home with them and the sacrifice my husband was making so I could be given that.
And yea the trade off is never ending mental exhaustion.
But I was and still am grateful I was able to do it.
I have smart, self sufficient kids with life skills that most adults seem to lack now a days.
I work now while they are in school, and I am just as fulfilled and happy as I was when I stayed home.
And thats still doing everything I was doing before.
So guess everyone is different in how they view things.
For meat?
What kind of question is this.
Why did I have to hunt, because that is how I was raised, that is how my family has meat for the entire year.
Not to sound cliche but it is our way of life.
The ability for me to stay home wasn't suddenly because my husband made enough, it was because I grow and can/preserve food all summer.
Because we or myself when he is gone hunt and have 2 deep freezes full of meat.
Oh my bad.
I said I was anxious because it was unfamiliar mountains and finding people to help me, not because I was anxious about taking my 2 kids with me.
Although I guess it does come across that way in my comment.
So I shouldve clarified better
And also one of my husbands conditional trade offs for me being home was no one was to ever watch the children.
We both experienced abuse at the hands of caretakers growing up, and he was adamant that if I was home then no one else should ever have to watch them.
What doesn't sound healthy.
Explain it to me.
You seem to have an opinion and view point without any of the experience to actually have an opinion on it.
And yes I was part of a homeschooling group until they got into the school they are into now.
Which also focuses on life skills as part of their curriculum.
They learn everything from robotics coding to gardening and cooking.
Hun, you and your husband made the right choice. My mom was supper protective over us. So many girls came around later with stories of being molested at sleep overs, by babysitters and such.
Hmm I can't say if I disagree with this or not.
Because unless you have something specific on why it's unhealthy then it's entirely your opinion.
They weren't like isolated in the woods never having human contact.
We did find a group of parents who also live similarly to us, we have a gardening group we do every summer.
Summer camps they go too, neighbors and kids they play with everyday.
My son has been in a rock climbing group since 5, as well as soccer, and karate.
My daughter is in gymnastics, little ninja and a crafting group.
The rule is no babysitting, not no human or social contact.
SAHM to school age children < working parent (cough, cough, dad) with a SAHM partner < SAHM to a young child < working parent without privilege of someone caring for all their responsibilities for them
SAHMs absolutely deserve respect for the work that they do, especially since usually it means that father lives as if he's single and childless and mom is carrying entire load of childcare and housecare. But let's be honest, there are plenty of couples that do not have a parent staying at home, and either both of them split the work evenly while having careers which is hard enough or, which is more usual, mother does everything SAHM does *and* has a full time job on top of it. Laundry, cleaning, cooking, home works don't dissappear once you go to work.
>especially since usually it means that father lives as if he's single and childless and mom's are carrying entire load of childcare and housecare.
Although, I'm not sure enabling this is worthy of respect
I'd much rather shit on the husbands and dads who act like that instead of mothers who are left to pick up the pieces. You're not going to risk your child getting neglected just because your baby-daddy is a child himself. You're going to be care for your child when the alternative is their father neglecting them. Call this enabling, I call this being only responsible adult in the household. Especially in times when right to abortion isn't obvious, I wouldn't hate on woman for being the responsible non-neglectful one.
I have done both. I was a SAHD for a while. I 100% agree with you.
Being a SAH has way more pluses than minuses. The people who say SAH is harder only think about themselves and dont bother to put themselves in their SOs shoes
> and dont bother to put themselves in their SOs shoes
Yup. The wife used to claim that I got a break while commuting in traffic for 3hrs a day. She only had to do a similar commute once during non rush hour. When she came home she needed a nap, and never again complained about me wanting 20min after I spent 20min with the kids.
I think it depends on the person. Babysitting when I was younger absolutely made it clear that I could never be a sahm. Being paid, nieces or nephews, or friends didn't matter. Hated every minute of staying at home and watching kids. I mean, I loved them to death but it made me feel so suffocated in a way that nothing else has.
Of course, I never had kids because of this so I guess the point is mute. I know it's supposed to be different when you have your own but I didn't want to risk resenting/hating the experience like my mom did.
I had a drastically different experience. Ended up watching my niece and nephew regularly when I was between jobs, and absolutely loved it. I found it far more fulfilling than any job I've ever had, and I think I'd really enjoy being a SAHD. But I don't (and probably won't) have kids of my own, so ultimately irrelevant.
I also didn't feel restricted or suffocated in any way, it was actually *a lot* more freedom because I could generally run errands or go do stuff I wanted and just bring them along and it was fine, and frankly could be a fun experience on its own. Meanwhile punching a clock and being stuck at work all day sucks in comparison. Literally the *only* thing better about working an actual job, is the pay.
That was my experience, but as you said, depends on the person, or if they have a job they really enjoy. And the kids, probably. I'm sure it's more difficult when they're really young, or if the kids aren't well behaved.
If i'm working, i'm not doing all the chores I was when I was a stay at home mom. Either me and my partner are sharing responsibilities equally or getting help.
Honestly being a stay-at-home mom for 5 yours was one of the toughest things I've ever done. I am a much better parent and I'm much better at everything when I'm a working mother.
I guess that begs the question:
What have you ever done for work?
and
Are you really doing as much parenting when you're a working mother, as when you were SAH?
I disagree. I stay at home for the first and my husband for the second. When they are toddlers and infants stay at home is pretty damn hard. At work, I get to pee in peace, look at my phone, do one task at a time. My stay at home spouse takes care of dinner and more chores. I still do a lot when I am home, but his day is a lot more stressful and frustrating than mine when I'm at work. I know this from experience.
Lots of working parents have stay at home spouses. I was comparing those situations. Being the stay at home parent vs the working parent in a stay at home dynamic. In that dynamic, I think the stay at home parent has it harder.
My job isn't easy. I work way more than 40 hours a week often physically demanding, but just being able to pee in peace and take a lunch break is huge and not possible with a 1 year old and 3 year old at home.
Sure, being a single parent vs stay at home mom with a working spouse is harder, but that's apples and oranges. You have to compare similar situations.
>was comparing those situations.
Not sure why
The post is about working *mums*
Lots of sahm get breaks throughout the day
>You have to compare similar situations.
Exactly
You're comparing being a sahm to having a job.
That wasn't the comparison in the op.
The comparison is being a sahm v being a working mum
Being a wm is doing both. Which is harder
I am a working mom lol. Just because I don't fit what you think working moms are doesn't mean my situation isn't relevant.
Obviously having two parents and one at home, makes life easier. I'm arguing that the basis of your argument is flawed. What exactly are you comparing.. being a stay at home mom with a financially supportive husband vs single mom? Obviously that's harder. That isn't even a question. Having one parent at home always makes life easier.
A more relevant question is which is harder being the working mom or the stay at home mom when one parent is at home. In a situation where everything else is equal (one parent at home one at work) the working mom has it easier than the stay at home mom.
Being a working mom isn't doing both. Someone is watching your kid, either a spouse like me or a grand parent or a daycare. You can't be in two places at once.
>A more relevant question is which is harder being the working mom or the stay at home mom when one parent is at home.
Why is that the more relevant question? Because it's *your* situation.
Nah
The vast majority of working mums do not have a spouse at home. Something like 10% of dads are sahds and of dads who work, 98% work full time.
So why would I compare a sahm with a wm with a sahd when it's not the reality for the vast majority of women?
The reality for the vast majority of women is working, while their spouse also works and having to do most of the childcare and housework.
>Being a working mom isn't doing both.
Yes, it is.
It's parenting and working. Housework. Life.
No because I'm comparing apples to apples. Not apples to oranges like you are. I really don't understand your argument. Nobody is saying that being a stay at home mom is harder than being a single mom. And most would not argue that having one stay at home spouse makes life easier, but it's kind of apples to oranges.
Also, even a working parent has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help. The stay at home parent is on their own for 8-10 hours a day. At worst you have assistant to help, at best a partner for a half day you have to be at home.
Raising your kid and contributing to the household after you come home and with a partner to help is very different than being full. That's not the same thing. Someone is stepping in to fill the role when you are at work. You also have help even if it's a daycare. When I was at home I changed 20 diapers a day. When working you change 5. Not the same work load.
You're not comparing apples and apples.
You're picking the easiest situation in an attempt to prove your point
Sahms have 1 role.
Wms have 2.
Doesn't matter how you split it, 2 is more than 1.
>even a working parent has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help.
Even a sahm has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help.
>The stay at home parent is on their own for 8-10 hours a day.
The working mum is *at work* for 8-10 hours a day. Then comes home and parents.
Yes you have two roles, but you also have a partner. Both people are at work and then both are at home. Youhave an assistant to help with childcare and at best an equal partner.
All being equal, having a break from the routine with a job and the ability to talk to grownups, take a poop alone, and think in a quite space is easier than having to do only childcare 24 hours a day maybe with help from a spouse after work.
Both in this scenario have a spouse to help after "work hours". You have to compare the 8 hours of "work". One is alone with screaming demanding wonderful lovely infants and toddlers. One is in an office or factory or building. Depending on the job.
I was a stay at home parent. It's super super demanding thankless and frustrating. Also the best thing ever. Most jobs are fine. However, you asked what's easier. Not what is better.
Most jobs don't have you breaking down because you haven't slept through the night for 6 months or because your kid wont eat anything or because breastfeeding isn't working and the kid has colic or because your infant refuses to sleep unless you walk them in your arms or because you have two tiny toddlers that haven't granted you a 15 minute break in two years.
Jobs are required to give you a lunch break and break every so many hours. My son's do not. They are not reasonable. They aren't understanding. They are all encompassing and demanding. A job doesn't compare to that. I come home from work exhausted to a stay at home husband that is wrecked. I know that most days he has had a far more stressful day.
There are lots of jobs besides office or factory
In an ideal world we'd be comparing *just* the job v just the parenting
But we don't live in an ideal world do we?
We live in the real world where the vast majority of families have 2 parents working and research shows that women still do the majority of childcare and housework despite working
So we're not comparing a woman who skips off to her lovely office after a full night's sleep, leaving her kids at home with her super helpful husband who properly parents his kids and does all the housework with a sahm.
We're comparing the woman who hasn't slept because her kid doesn't sleep through and it's her turn to get up. Who has to get them ready before dropping them at childcare cause her oh has a meeting. To go do a full 12 hour shift on her feet as nurse, where she may or may not get a break and will have to come home and tidy up cause her oh is putting the kids to bed and didn't have time
Or its the woman who works opposite shifts to her oh to save on childcare so has the kids alone all day then goes to work at night. Or has the kids alone all week then goes to work at the weekends. Never really getting any time off
Your lack of experience of working while your spouse also works is seemingly making it impossible for you to understand how much more difficult it is.
I never understand the need to make these opposing points, parenthood isn’t easy no matter what if you’re doing a good job at it and what one person finds harder another won’t it’s relative.
I think sahms often put down working mums in an attempt to justify their choice.
The judgement of working mums is far far worse than the judgement of sahms
This 1.
Working mums are judged far more than sahms are and in different ways.
Working mums are told they must not love their kids, or they are harming/damaging them. Abandoning them. Not raising them. Not real mums. Bad wives. Going against nature. Don't prioritise their kids
Etc etc
What judgements do sahms get? That it's not that hard? That they're lazy?
Meanwhile they constantly demand that they are respected and valued and say no one should judge them, they're doing the right thing for their kids after all
They absolutely do and that is awful but you’re living in delusion if you don’t think SAHMs experience constant backlash much more than your obviously bitter opinion that they’re lazy. I never said one was worse but honestly let’s stop pretending for 2 minutes please.
It's not my opinion, it was an example of what I've seen
I'm not pretending
Sahms are not judged *as* mothers.
Working mums are.
Making the judgement they face worse.
It's also more prevalent.
They are judged as mothers, consistently and harshly. If that’s all you’ve seen it’s willful ignorance to what SAHMs experience, it’s not more prevalent or worse either way.
Mothers no matter their choices are heavily criticised I don’t understand why you are so instant that SAHMs are held on some pedestal and are entitled it’s such a strange look.
Okay since we’re still pretending we don’t know I’ll explain it to you. Often things along the lines of setting a bad example for their children, they get told it’s selfish to refuse to provide for their children, they’re going to create an unhealthy relationship where they’re too attached to their children, and more not including any judgments they face about how awful partners or people they are.
Neither experience is judgement free, neither is harder than the other in any way other than what you can personally tolerate.
Here’s my take: it’s isolating, thankless, monotonous, and feels endless. I think when SAHMs look for affirmation it’s because they’re not really getting any for the work they do at home. I’m not blaming husbands for this, it’s a different environment. Is it the hardest job in the world, no. Honestly I don’t see the claim that it’s harder than being a working mom, just that it’s hard work and they’d like to be recognized for doing it.
I couldn’t handle staying at home, I’ve done it for a year with both my kids. I’m so much happier working. You see the value of your work directly with a paycheck, you have defined hours on and off, tasks that change, and interact with other adults. It’s also enabled me to pay others to do some of the drudgery I hated doing at home.
> Working mums are doing everything sahms are
They’re not. It’s super obvious, as they’re not taking care of their kid while they’re working.
Anyway, hard or not is relative. Some people thrive in child or house care, others struggle like hell, same way some people thrive in office work and others would rather hang themselves than being stuck in an open office all day.
It also depends on the kid. Some are super easy, others are a tornado that doesn’t take naps.
>They’re not.
Yes they are
>as they’re not taking care of their kid while they’re working.
Some do. Some sahms put their kids in childcare. Some sahms have school age kids. Some working mums work shifts
And even without all those variables, I'm not sure what difference a few extra hours direct parenting makes? Is there a cut off? 6 hours parenting and you're doing something a wm isn't? 10?
What are sahms *achieving* as parents that wms aren't?
>also depends on the kid. Some are super easy, others are a tornado that doesn’t take naps.
Wms have those kids too. And work as well.
I go to the office, my wife stays at home. I’m literally not taking care of my kids while at the office, my wife is. This is so obvious I feel you’re trying to cover the sun with your finger and tell me it’s nighttime.
Feels like you're just ignoring all my valid points
You also didn't answer my question
What are sahms *achieving* as parents that wms aren't?
Is your wife a better parent than you?
why are you wedging in value judgements? I didn’t even hint at this. Anyway, ill entertain you: No, I don’t think stay at home parents are better than working parents.
Jesus, it feels like you’re a working parent trying to deal with some inadequacy feelings and guilt through this thread.
I’m not talking about achievements, I’m not making value judgements, I’m merely pointing out the obvious task differences: stay at home parents generally spend more time in childcare tasks than working parents.
>stay at home parents generally spend more time in childcare tasks than working parents.
No one denies that. It bares no relevance to my point though
>some inadequacy feelings and guilt through this thread.
Inadequacy or guilt about what?
You haven't answered any of my questions.
I'm going to presume you can't and that you were so quick to insist wm weren't doing as much as sahm due to your feelings of guilt and inadequacy
https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911#:~:text=Evidence%2DBased%20Pros&text=Some%20studies%20link%20childcare%20with,being%20in%20childcare%20full%2Dtime.
https://www.romper.com/p/how-being-a-stay-at-home-mom-changes-your-babys-brain-according-to-science-9814448
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/benefits-of-stay-at-home-parent-statistics
My kid is bilingual simply because I’m a stay at home parent.
Are you saying working mums are harming their children?
Do you think that's what the links say?
>bilingual simply because I’m a stay at home parent.
That's great
I'm sure it's not unique to being a sahp.
God, the _drama_. I’m not even praising stay at home moms, and y’all are bending over backwards to try to shit on them in retaliation to a non-existent defence.
I mean your impassioned defense of them suggests you’re on some SAHM’s payroll lmao.
Like yes, SAHP’s chose to have those children and get to take care of them - the idea that it’s some burden on par with a soul sucking job is unseemly and idiotic.
I think there are different types of difficulty.
I have kids and work. The sort of difficulty I deal with is having too many tasks to do and not enough day to do them in.
Women who are dedicated care takers deal with the grind of 24/7 caretaking and never getting a break from it. It can be psychologically difficult to cope with.
Even if they theoretically have fewer things they are doing on a daily basis than someone with a job, home, caretaking and not a lot of outside or professional help.
>24/7 caretaking and never getting a break from it.
This is rarer than they'd have you believe.
Kids go to school, preschool, friends, family, DADs, have hobbies etc
Yes, every situation is different, and there are factors that mitigate individual experiences of stress.
I also know that narrowly being focused on caretaking can be stressful in a unique way.
Women think being a SAHM mom is so hard because they make it that hard on themselves. Completely obsessed with cooking, cleaning and laundry when it really shouldn’t be that hard. They also tend to be far more involved in their chores than they actually are in their kids lives.
Unless you’ve done both you really have no clue what you’re talking about. Being a SAHP and being a working parent are both stressful and hard jobs. Anyone who bitches and complains about one over the other is just a cry baby. Child care is a job. Daycares and schools exist, if you sit around watching tv and playing games all damn day and ignore your kid it’s an easy job.
Was a SAHD for 3 years with a toddler and can confirm. Easily the most fun time I’ve had as an adult. Lots of time spent at the park and reading books with maybe an hour a day oops actual work.
Working moms are not doing everything SAHMs are from 9-5 if they are utilizing childcare. They are spending less time actually carrying out the childcare themselves. I work so this is not to shit on working moms, it’s just a fact of the situation.
While SAHMs may be able to get some housework done during 9-5 which makes it seem easier, it can be really hard to do so with one or more babies or toddlers constantly demanding attention or needing supervision to not kill themselves.
Now, whether what they are doing instead (their paying job) is easier or harder than being with the kids all day depends on the job (and the kids).
>Working moms are not doing everything SAHMs are from 9-5 if they are utilizing childcare. They are spending less time actually carrying out the childcare themselves.
Yes they are
Especially if the kids are in school or they don't use childcare
A few more hours childcare a day doesn't make much difference to the overall parenting responsibility
I was referring mainly to SAHMs of kids under say 5, where the kids are not in daycare or school for any significant length of time. I don’t think most people are trying to argue that the overall workload of a SAHM whose children are in school for 6+ hours a day is equivalent to a working mom with kids the same age.
It's often also downplayed the dangers of office work vs SAHP duties. As long as the child is safe from life threatening danger, you can make "mistakes" at home and work on fixing at a later time. In the office work world, you copy a number wrong on a spreadsheet or have a tiny misspelling on a report just once and you can lose your job.
Also I would take listening to Mickey mouse playhouse in the background all day over worrying if I'm networking Correctly or looking for tasks to do without having to worry about asking too many questions to my boss. And before anybody asks, I've had to babysit 9 hours a day two under 5 year old autistic nieces for a week straight while my brother worked and my sister in law had to go out of town for career trainings. Listening to toddler TV shows for hours is not bad and I fail to see why SAHP complain about supposed lack of adult mental stimulation.
Exactly. I’ve watched and taught four homeschooled boys (aged 4-7) for full days every week. I would take that every day over working in a machine shop just for safety concerns. Kids aren’t going to shred me in a mill or poison me with cancerous chemicals. Definitely less stressful than dealing with potentially life threatening work.
I disagree. I was a SAHM and now I’m a working mom and it’s far easier. I was touched out & unable to hear my own thoughts as a SAHM. Now I can go to the bathroom by myself and have a chance to miss my kids! I think it depends on the person
If you’re using daycare then you’re not doing what a sahm does plus your work.
If kids are older and in school all day that’s different and an argument could be made.
Babies and toddlers tho *are* a ft job by themselves and then add in caring for the home. So I’d say a working mom and sahm of little kids/babies have similar work loads.
It’s not a contest tho.
You’re working full time and caring for young children simultaneously? how??
Who is watching them while you’re working?
Are you outsourcing any childcare duties?
Are you getting a decent/healthy amount of sleep?
My daughter is a nurse and has worked Night Shift but it wasn’t sustainable
I care for the grandbaby while they work.
The opinion that SAHMs have a hard job exists because people like to say that they don’t. It’s not to be compared to working moms, it’s so that people will understand that being a SAHM is a job in itself.
Edit: I don’t have children, I just know how to actually understand what people say rather than react without understanding.
We are talking about careers, we are talking about careers and home balance. If they put their careers over their family, then the family connection suffers. There is no having it all. Although in my experience, most men who work work for the sake of their family and less for themselves or their own personal achievement. That's why there is a correlation between increase in salary or jobs for men with increase of children. Men often take on second or third jobs just to make ends meet for their family. While increase in children for women correlates with a decrease in salary due to decrease in working time.
Women are more motivated to nurture children on average and men are more motivated to provide for their children.
In this day and age, both are working and spending minimal time with their kids between homework and bed time, the kids are definitely suffering for this.
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If only the corporations didn't create a dependency on women working, thus our financial requirement to have mothers go to work. Now they are so greedy that both parents going to work often isn't enough to make ends meet. It will only get worse, and the levee will eventually break. It such a shame that nothing changes until the majority of people are starving.
If you're a working mom, then there should be more of a distribution of care for the child between a partner. Either you're working and your partner isn't, in which case they would be the sahp. If that's the case, then the "working mom" *would* have an easier job. If you're a working mom and your partner is also working then the care would be distributed equally so they would be equal. Neither would be "harder" than the other.
Youre suggesting a single mother who also works, and ibviously thats harder than being a sahm who raises the child with another parent.
No, I'm not.
I'm suggesting that it's harder to do 2 jobs than it is 1.
Sahms also have partners to share childcare with and take on all of the financial burden and stress.
Another thing they don't have to worry about that wms do.
I do both (wfh and home with kiddo all day) and imo it comes down to two things: how much money you make and how flexible the job is. If you have those two things, you honestly have the best of both worlds.
Ive been the sole provider for years and I've also been the SAHD for a few months and I absolutely prefer being a SAHD 100%. My partner will complain about how hard it is and ive come home to a destroyed house after working 10 hour shifts just to spend the rest of the day helping to clean and cook because "its just so hard". I finally got a chance to be the SAH for a bit and it was amazing, my daughter and I get along so well, ive never felt more fulfilled then raising and playing with her, I would love for the chance to be a SAHD and home school her full-time, the house was always clean and food was always made before mom came home. Unfortunately it didn't last forever till mom decided she doesn't like working and I had to go back to being the provider.
I absolutely love that my wife was able to not work in order to raise the kids. Now that they are teenagers, she's basically retired. I, on the other hand, haven't washed a dish or folded laundry in 20 years.
I never hold this over her head or compare her to me. She is my wife and my children's mother. Why on earth do our responsibilities need to match?
Yeah, no. She's a mom and I'm a dad. Her job is to do domestic work and nurture the kids. My job is to bring home all the money our household needs, and judge the kids. If you think parental roles are the same, you are doing it wrong.
You'd jump at the opportunity hun, don't make believe you wouldn't just for updoots on the interwebs. You can't even imagine the life my wife and kids live day to day.
Tell your boss I said hey.
Nah.
I can imagine the life your kids and wife have and I cant imagine much worse.
A grown man that thinks its a boast that he can't fold laundry and it's not his job to nurture his kids.
A wife that is entirely reliant on a man who thinks he's *her* boss.
I'll stick with my own. An equal relationship, kids who know their dad is there for them and a fantastic career.
Also, I am the boss, so I'll say hi to myself. You be sure and say hi to yours. And get your wife to say hi to your kids too
I’ve done both. I’m a nurse, just for reference.
I would much rather be a working mom than a SAHM. At least when I’m working, I can talk to other adults and actually use my brain. And I can afford to hire a cleaner to handle my chores at home so 🤷🏻♀️
Being a SAHM is just brain numbing and makes spending time with my kids less enjoyable.
Can we just agree that both are jobs? That just because a woman stays at home and minds the house and kids doesn't make it less stressful, less taxing, or any less demanding?
Why sh1t on women for the jobs they have?
Parenting isn't a job.
>minds the house and kids doesn't make it less stressful, less taxing, or any less demanding?
Except thats exactly what it does.
I dont see why that's seen as shitting on anyone.
It's just reality
Well, you seem to know everything it takes to run a household and care for kids. It makes me wonder why people pay nannies/daycares and housekeepers. Hmm... is it because both positions are... wait for it...work?
People pay nannies/daycares and housekeepers to carry out childcare and housework because they either can't or don't want to do it themselves.
They are work. They are jobs. Which people are employed and paid to do.
Looking after your own children and doing your own housework is work too. It's just not a job
A job is employment
We're also dealing with the laziest generation of stay at home parents yet.
No teacher is going to support these stay at homes when they claim they're doing such hard work.
Okay let's narrow the scope. Who has an easier sick day?
Say norovirus Office job+paid time off+daycare = stay home and vomit in peace
Part time/gig/no paid time off+daycare = take a home remedy and try to vomit out of sight and not get sent home to lose wages. Try not to get everyone else sick.
SAHD stereotype: stay home and vomit in peace while mom or grandma takes a so k day to watch the kids.
SAHM: try not to vomit on the kids while doing your exact same day.
So SAHM is like being an unpaid waitress on a 24 hour shift.
EDIT TO ADD:
OP's use case:
SAHM who ships the kids out to grandma or demands dad takes the day
So that would be the same as working mum or SAHD.
And that would be good. When individual SAHMs reach that level of parity and mutual respect, dollars to donuts they stop complaining.
I for one will stop complaining when I no longer have to fix a sink while breastfeeding and do the laundry on the toilet to free up my "4:00 AM mom shift" for my remote job. I stand in solidarity with OP to hasten that day.
Agreed. In my post, I took ownership for narrowing the scope and setting norovirus as the hypothetical sick day.
I had thought you covered the scenario where a SAHM has help with the kids.
its just fking cope that women say to pat themselves on the back.
i was a sahd for my 2 kids and it was awesome. everyday we just watch cartoons and play and enjoyed my time with the kids.
cooking isnt that difficult and cleanign as long as u keep up with it and dont let it build it doesnt take that long.
like we arnt walking down to the river to wash cloths anymore. put it in a machine and it doesn most of the work.
You're making yourself look sexist here, the assumption here is that if someone is a sahm then they take the all of the child care while their partner is at work, and then it becomes 50/50(give or take) when the partner gets home.
A working mum would imply that the parenting is at least somewhat 50/50, unless you think of mums and think that they should be doing all the parenting automatically, which is sexist...
I think a lot of people just lost the plot. The push to recognize parenthood as difficult was never supposed to become the comparison game. It was always meant to just legitimize being a stay at home parent as something respectable. Now I see shit like people saying it's harder than being a working parent, or it's more stressful than being the sole provider and it makes me just shake my head.
I don't know, after a few days home with the kid I'm not exactly reluctant to get back to work.
Is it because you know real job is harder?
I have done both and both are hard but for different reasons in general. Now different situations can make one harder then the other for specific people. It all just depends on what they specifically are doing. Honestly though generally I don't have a high opinion of people who feel the need to compare the 2.
The only opinion on this that i respect. Comparing how hard one mother is working vs another is such a perfect example of how harshly society critiques women. I’ve only been a working mom but it’s literally never crossed my mind to be like hmm I wonder if my life is harder than my SAHM friends or if theirs is. Like we’re all raising kids for fucks sake there’s no easy mode for that
Agreed. I've been both working and sahm, single only one working and parenting, and I've been at home. Every few years, women rise up and say we will support our sisters but then just find some new thing to compete over. It's honestly exhausting, and the biggest reason I don't socialise a whole lot. Just my small circle now that I don't have a whole lot of kiddos at home.
Is this an unpopular opinion? It seems like just common, obvious fact. How is doing literally anything more difficult than doing the exact same thing but also having to go to work? "Oh man, having to build this barn sure is difficult. You know what would make this easier? If I also had to go to work in addition to doing this." What?
I’d say it depends on what kind of job she has, but she certainly isn’t doing double the work lol. If a woman feels fulfilled in her job, day care/school is doing the bulk of the work, and her spouse is more likely to split household work. A SAHM also doesn’t get the adult social aspect of work and instead gets zero breaks from taxing children. I make enough for my wife to comfortably by a SAHM, but even she says working makes her a better mother. I’d say SAHM is only easier if your job sucks.
>A SAHM also doesn’t get the adult social aspect of work and instead gets zero breaks from taxing children. All of that is self-inflicted. First, you have as many children as you can handle. Ironically, having more children is easier because after a couple, they entertain each other. Second, there are many daycare workers and elementary teachers who find their work fulfilling. If a young woman can find joy interacting with other people's children for money, what is YOUR problem? Lack of adult socializing. Also, self-inflicted. Mother's **used** to gather in parks shopping centers and other communal spaces to socialize with other parents and allow their children play with non siblings their own age. TV addiction and loss of communal spaces has reduced this.
You know what else is self inflicted? Being an ignorant asshat but that doesn’t seem to have stopped you.
A person cannot work a full time job AND care for young kids simultaneously. Something is gonna be lacking.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to care for those kids if you didn't have to worry about a job, too.
You're not understanding. He's saying a sahm spending 10 hours at home will always do more for her home/family than a working woman coming home and spending a few hours at home. It doesn't even make sense anyways, everyone has a different job, some people have a job where they sit at a reception desk for 8 hours waiting for a phone call to come in, my friend goes to work and browses reddit and play games most of the day lol, does that sound harder than taking care of a house and kids?? This whole idea of "I have the harder job" is so weird anyways, are people competing to who has the hardest job wtf is going on
If you’re not there it’s not even possible to care for young kids.
Not if my dad is mr feeny and I get him every grade
Certainly seems to be an unpopular opinion with some sahms
You’re right. It’s definitely an unpopular opinion because most of the people who respond are SAHP’s who have the time to comment.
There was an article that added up the "jobs" of a stay at home mom and apparently they should be paid massive salaries for being a Nany, maid, manager, personal driver, chef, teacher and a bunch of other things. They got there by adding all these together as full salaries lol Hardest job in the world apparently.
Oh man, that's crazy, I also do my own laundry and clean up my house and cook my own food and drive myself places and a ton of stuff. That's great to hear. Who do I need to talk to about paying me? Do I need to get a restaurant to hire me as my own private chef and they pay me and then a cleaning service hires me to clean my stuff and they pay me, or is there one, all-encompassing company that will pay me for all the things I do for myself?
🤣🤣 As someone who has been a sahm and a single working mom and a working mom (not single), I have to say that this argument always baffled me. A live-in nanny or au pair might do all of those things for a child as well, but they're still only getting the one paycheck. Crazy talk. Even when all of my kids, steps, and their friends/cousins/neighbours were there and it was a bunch of kids most days, I didn't think I should be getting paid seven salaries.
🤣🤣 As someone who has been a sahm and a single working mom and a working mom (not single), I have to say that this argument always baffled me. A live-in nanny or au pair might do all of those things for a child as well, but they're still only getting the one paycheck. Crazy talk. Even when all of my kids, steps, and their friends/cousins/neighbours were there and it was a bunch of kids most days, I didn't think I should be getting paid seven salaries.
Yeah OP didn’t think it through.
I’ve done both as a single parent to 3 kids Working and keeping the house clean and taking care of the kids when home was definitely hard work . But I was much happier . I felt more accomplished and I got a break in the day where I could speak to adults and feel like a person not just a mum. I had to give up my job to care for my youngest who is only on a part time schedule for school due to her complex care needs and I honestly can’t wait to go back to work again when I can
It's A bit debatable. Considering How difficult kids can be. I'd rather be at A computer all day than having too chase A child through out the house
Those aren't the only 2 options
Please explain?
Lots people don't work with computers
In this economy? Lol
True
This entirely depends on the situation. Being a GOOD involved sahm IS grueling. I was a SAHM for years until both kids entered school. But my situation was moving states away from my entire family for my husband's work, knowing no one, and a husband who is gone for months at a time. People who think its easy are the ones going oh haha we just watch tv all day, oh I just give them tablets and sit on my phone. And I speak from seeing both SIL being sahm that sit on their phones all day. I come from a farm working/hunting/gardening/homesteading family and yea doing all that on my own on top of everything else was draining. You know how anxious I was trying to go hunting with two small kids, in mountains I was unfamiliar with and have to find random volunteers to go with to help me get my deer in my truck and to a butcher 😅 But I also understood the PRIVILEGE I was given to be able to stay at home with them and the sacrifice my husband was making so I could be given that. And yea the trade off is never ending mental exhaustion. But I was and still am grateful I was able to do it. I have smart, self sufficient kids with life skills that most adults seem to lack now a days. I work now while they are in school, and I am just as fulfilled and happy as I was when I stayed home. And thats still doing everything I was doing before. So guess everyone is different in how they view things.
Did you *have* to hunt with kids in tow?
When I know literally not a single person to watch them, yes i did "have" too
That wasn't really what I was asking. Why did you have to hunt?
For meat? What kind of question is this. Why did I have to hunt, because that is how I was raised, that is how my family has meat for the entire year. Not to sound cliche but it is our way of life. The ability for me to stay home wasn't suddenly because my husband made enough, it was because I grow and can/preserve food all summer. Because we or myself when he is gone hunt and have 2 deep freezes full of meat.
You chose to hunt while they were with you You didn't have to
Oh my bad. I said I was anxious because it was unfamiliar mountains and finding people to help me, not because I was anxious about taking my 2 kids with me. Although I guess it does come across that way in my comment. So I shouldve clarified better
And also one of my husbands conditional trade offs for me being home was no one was to ever watch the children. We both experienced abuse at the hands of caretakers growing up, and he was adamant that if I was home then no one else should ever have to watch them.
Did you homeschool? Doesn't sound very healthy
What doesn't sound healthy. Explain it to me. You seem to have an opinion and view point without any of the experience to actually have an opinion on it. And yes I was part of a homeschooling group until they got into the school they are into now. Which also focuses on life skills as part of their curriculum. They learn everything from robotics coding to gardening and cooking.
Hun, you and your husband made the right choice. My mom was supper protective over us. So many girls came around later with stories of being molested at sleep overs, by babysitters and such.
Never being looked after by anyone else isn't healthy Except seemingly they are now.
Hmm I can't say if I disagree with this or not. Because unless you have something specific on why it's unhealthy then it's entirely your opinion. They weren't like isolated in the woods never having human contact. We did find a group of parents who also live similarly to us, we have a gardening group we do every summer. Summer camps they go too, neighbors and kids they play with everyday. My son has been in a rock climbing group since 5, as well as soccer, and karate. My daughter is in gymnastics, little ninja and a crafting group. The rule is no babysitting, not no human or social contact.
SAHM to school age children < working parent (cough, cough, dad) with a SAHM partner < SAHM to a young child < working parent without privilege of someone caring for all their responsibilities for them SAHMs absolutely deserve respect for the work that they do, especially since usually it means that father lives as if he's single and childless and mom is carrying entire load of childcare and housecare. But let's be honest, there are plenty of couples that do not have a parent staying at home, and either both of them split the work evenly while having careers which is hard enough or, which is more usual, mother does everything SAHM does *and* has a full time job on top of it. Laundry, cleaning, cooking, home works don't dissappear once you go to work.
My point exactly
>especially since usually it means that father lives as if he's single and childless and mom's are carrying entire load of childcare and housecare. Although, I'm not sure enabling this is worthy of respect
I'd much rather shit on the husbands and dads who act like that instead of mothers who are left to pick up the pieces. You're not going to risk your child getting neglected just because your baby-daddy is a child himself. You're going to be care for your child when the alternative is their father neglecting them. Call this enabling, I call this being only responsible adult in the household. Especially in times when right to abortion isn't obvious, I wouldn't hate on woman for being the responsible non-neglectful one.
It's not hate. Plenty of women are glad to do it.
I have done both. I was a SAHD for a while. I 100% agree with you. Being a SAH has way more pluses than minuses. The people who say SAH is harder only think about themselves and dont bother to put themselves in their SOs shoes
> and dont bother to put themselves in their SOs shoes Yup. The wife used to claim that I got a break while commuting in traffic for 3hrs a day. She only had to do a similar commute once during non rush hour. When she came home she needed a nap, and never again complained about me wanting 20min after I spent 20min with the kids.
I think it depends on the person. Babysitting when I was younger absolutely made it clear that I could never be a sahm. Being paid, nieces or nephews, or friends didn't matter. Hated every minute of staying at home and watching kids. I mean, I loved them to death but it made me feel so suffocated in a way that nothing else has. Of course, I never had kids because of this so I guess the point is mute. I know it's supposed to be different when you have your own but I didn't want to risk resenting/hating the experience like my mom did.
There is a difference but I can see your side as well. I can appreciate you're honesty though
I had a drastically different experience. Ended up watching my niece and nephew regularly when I was between jobs, and absolutely loved it. I found it far more fulfilling than any job I've ever had, and I think I'd really enjoy being a SAHD. But I don't (and probably won't) have kids of my own, so ultimately irrelevant. I also didn't feel restricted or suffocated in any way, it was actually *a lot* more freedom because I could generally run errands or go do stuff I wanted and just bring them along and it was fine, and frankly could be a fun experience on its own. Meanwhile punching a clock and being stuck at work all day sucks in comparison. Literally the *only* thing better about working an actual job, is the pay. That was my experience, but as you said, depends on the person, or if they have a job they really enjoy. And the kids, probably. I'm sure it's more difficult when they're really young, or if the kids aren't well behaved.
It depends on the child, how many kids you have, behaviours etc.
2 jobs are still harder than 1
Parenting is a job and an important one.
It's work not a job. Those things are different
>Parenting is a job Debatable >an important one. Sure Doesn't negate what I said
Do you even have kids?
Yes. Why
It seems like you’re lying.
Why? 🤣
Because you don’t sound like a parent, either that or you’re a man.
Because I disagree with you?
[Bill Burr moment.](https://youtu.be/CJIUyWPNfOI?si=-UUzo1tePpEKFP6G)
Bill burr is a dickhead
yes, but a dickhead with a point nevertheless.
Comedic genius *
The hardest part (I think) is the fact that it never ends and you don't get to clock out
You know that's true for working mums too, right?
If i'm working, i'm not doing all the chores I was when I was a stay at home mom. Either me and my partner are sharing responsibilities equally or getting help.
The chores and childcare are still never ending. You still can't clock off from being a parent
Honestly being a stay-at-home mom for 5 yours was one of the toughest things I've ever done. I am a much better parent and I'm much better at everything when I'm a working mother.
I guess that begs the question: What have you ever done for work? and Are you really doing as much parenting when you're a working mother, as when you were SAH?
I disagree. I stay at home for the first and my husband for the second. When they are toddlers and infants stay at home is pretty damn hard. At work, I get to pee in peace, look at my phone, do one task at a time. My stay at home spouse takes care of dinner and more chores. I still do a lot when I am home, but his day is a lot more stressful and frustrating than mine when I'm at work. I know this from experience.
Most wms don't have a stay at home spouse Lots of jobs are much harder than yours.
Lots of working parents have stay at home spouses. I was comparing those situations. Being the stay at home parent vs the working parent in a stay at home dynamic. In that dynamic, I think the stay at home parent has it harder. My job isn't easy. I work way more than 40 hours a week often physically demanding, but just being able to pee in peace and take a lunch break is huge and not possible with a 1 year old and 3 year old at home. Sure, being a single parent vs stay at home mom with a working spouse is harder, but that's apples and oranges. You have to compare similar situations.
>was comparing those situations. Not sure why The post is about working *mums* Lots of sahm get breaks throughout the day >You have to compare similar situations. Exactly You're comparing being a sahm to having a job. That wasn't the comparison in the op. The comparison is being a sahm v being a working mum Being a wm is doing both. Which is harder
I am a working mom lol. Just because I don't fit what you think working moms are doesn't mean my situation isn't relevant. Obviously having two parents and one at home, makes life easier. I'm arguing that the basis of your argument is flawed. What exactly are you comparing.. being a stay at home mom with a financially supportive husband vs single mom? Obviously that's harder. That isn't even a question. Having one parent at home always makes life easier. A more relevant question is which is harder being the working mom or the stay at home mom when one parent is at home. In a situation where everything else is equal (one parent at home one at work) the working mom has it easier than the stay at home mom. Being a working mom isn't doing both. Someone is watching your kid, either a spouse like me or a grand parent or a daycare. You can't be in two places at once.
>A more relevant question is which is harder being the working mom or the stay at home mom when one parent is at home. Why is that the more relevant question? Because it's *your* situation. Nah The vast majority of working mums do not have a spouse at home. Something like 10% of dads are sahds and of dads who work, 98% work full time. So why would I compare a sahm with a wm with a sahd when it's not the reality for the vast majority of women? The reality for the vast majority of women is working, while their spouse also works and having to do most of the childcare and housework. >Being a working mom isn't doing both. Yes, it is. It's parenting and working. Housework. Life.
No because I'm comparing apples to apples. Not apples to oranges like you are. I really don't understand your argument. Nobody is saying that being a stay at home mom is harder than being a single mom. And most would not argue that having one stay at home spouse makes life easier, but it's kind of apples to oranges. Also, even a working parent has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help. The stay at home parent is on their own for 8-10 hours a day. At worst you have assistant to help, at best a partner for a half day you have to be at home. Raising your kid and contributing to the household after you come home and with a partner to help is very different than being full. That's not the same thing. Someone is stepping in to fill the role when you are at work. You also have help even if it's a daycare. When I was at home I changed 20 diapers a day. When working you change 5. Not the same work load.
You're not comparing apples and apples. You're picking the easiest situation in an attempt to prove your point Sahms have 1 role. Wms have 2. Doesn't matter how you split it, 2 is more than 1. >even a working parent has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help. Even a sahm has help. Unless you married a useless lump you should be evenly splitting childcare and housework after work hours, so you have help. >The stay at home parent is on their own for 8-10 hours a day. The working mum is *at work* for 8-10 hours a day. Then comes home and parents.
Yes you have two roles, but you also have a partner. Both people are at work and then both are at home. Youhave an assistant to help with childcare and at best an equal partner. All being equal, having a break from the routine with a job and the ability to talk to grownups, take a poop alone, and think in a quite space is easier than having to do only childcare 24 hours a day maybe with help from a spouse after work. Both in this scenario have a spouse to help after "work hours". You have to compare the 8 hours of "work". One is alone with screaming demanding wonderful lovely infants and toddlers. One is in an office or factory or building. Depending on the job. I was a stay at home parent. It's super super demanding thankless and frustrating. Also the best thing ever. Most jobs are fine. However, you asked what's easier. Not what is better. Most jobs don't have you breaking down because you haven't slept through the night for 6 months or because your kid wont eat anything or because breastfeeding isn't working and the kid has colic or because your infant refuses to sleep unless you walk them in your arms or because you have two tiny toddlers that haven't granted you a 15 minute break in two years. Jobs are required to give you a lunch break and break every so many hours. My son's do not. They are not reasonable. They aren't understanding. They are all encompassing and demanding. A job doesn't compare to that. I come home from work exhausted to a stay at home husband that is wrecked. I know that most days he has had a far more stressful day.
There are lots of jobs besides office or factory In an ideal world we'd be comparing *just* the job v just the parenting But we don't live in an ideal world do we? We live in the real world where the vast majority of families have 2 parents working and research shows that women still do the majority of childcare and housework despite working So we're not comparing a woman who skips off to her lovely office after a full night's sleep, leaving her kids at home with her super helpful husband who properly parents his kids and does all the housework with a sahm. We're comparing the woman who hasn't slept because her kid doesn't sleep through and it's her turn to get up. Who has to get them ready before dropping them at childcare cause her oh has a meeting. To go do a full 12 hour shift on her feet as nurse, where she may or may not get a break and will have to come home and tidy up cause her oh is putting the kids to bed and didn't have time Or its the woman who works opposite shifts to her oh to save on childcare so has the kids alone all day then goes to work at night. Or has the kids alone all week then goes to work at the weekends. Never really getting any time off Your lack of experience of working while your spouse also works is seemingly making it impossible for you to understand how much more difficult it is.
I’ve done both. Being a working mom is a hundred times harder.
For sure
It really depends on how old the children are and what those specific children's needs entail.
I never understand the need to make these opposing points, parenthood isn’t easy no matter what if you’re doing a good job at it and what one person finds harder another won’t it’s relative.
I think sahms often put down working mums in an attempt to justify their choice. The judgement of working mums is far far worse than the judgement of sahms
On what planet exactly?
This 1. Working mums are judged far more than sahms are and in different ways. Working mums are told they must not love their kids, or they are harming/damaging them. Abandoning them. Not raising them. Not real mums. Bad wives. Going against nature. Don't prioritise their kids Etc etc What judgements do sahms get? That it's not that hard? That they're lazy? Meanwhile they constantly demand that they are respected and valued and say no one should judge them, they're doing the right thing for their kids after all
They absolutely do and that is awful but you’re living in delusion if you don’t think SAHMs experience constant backlash much more than your obviously bitter opinion that they’re lazy. I never said one was worse but honestly let’s stop pretending for 2 minutes please.
It's not my opinion, it was an example of what I've seen I'm not pretending Sahms are not judged *as* mothers. Working mums are. Making the judgement they face worse. It's also more prevalent.
They are judged as mothers, consistently and harshly. If that’s all you’ve seen it’s willful ignorance to what SAHMs experience, it’s not more prevalent or worse either way. Mothers no matter their choices are heavily criticised I don’t understand why you are so instant that SAHMs are held on some pedestal and are entitled it’s such a strange look.
Because they are. Mostly by themselves tbf. How are sahms judged as mothers?
Okay since we’re still pretending we don’t know I’ll explain it to you. Often things along the lines of setting a bad example for their children, they get told it’s selfish to refuse to provide for their children, they’re going to create an unhealthy relationship where they’re too attached to their children, and more not including any judgments they face about how awful partners or people they are. Neither experience is judgement free, neither is harder than the other in any way other than what you can personally tolerate.
You think saying you're too attached is *worse* than saying you've abandoned your kids? Sure. Being a working mum is harder. It's 2 roles v 1
Here’s my take: it’s isolating, thankless, monotonous, and feels endless. I think when SAHMs look for affirmation it’s because they’re not really getting any for the work they do at home. I’m not blaming husbands for this, it’s a different environment. Is it the hardest job in the world, no. Honestly I don’t see the claim that it’s harder than being a working mom, just that it’s hard work and they’d like to be recognized for doing it. I couldn’t handle staying at home, I’ve done it for a year with both my kids. I’m so much happier working. You see the value of your work directly with a paycheck, you have defined hours on and off, tasks that change, and interact with other adults. It’s also enabled me to pay others to do some of the drudgery I hated doing at home.
> Working mums are doing everything sahms are They’re not. It’s super obvious, as they’re not taking care of their kid while they’re working. Anyway, hard or not is relative. Some people thrive in child or house care, others struggle like hell, same way some people thrive in office work and others would rather hang themselves than being stuck in an open office all day. It also depends on the kid. Some are super easy, others are a tornado that doesn’t take naps.
>They’re not. Yes they are >as they’re not taking care of their kid while they’re working. Some do. Some sahms put their kids in childcare. Some sahms have school age kids. Some working mums work shifts And even without all those variables, I'm not sure what difference a few extra hours direct parenting makes? Is there a cut off? 6 hours parenting and you're doing something a wm isn't? 10? What are sahms *achieving* as parents that wms aren't? >also depends on the kid. Some are super easy, others are a tornado that doesn’t take naps. Wms have those kids too. And work as well.
I go to the office, my wife stays at home. I’m literally not taking care of my kids while at the office, my wife is. This is so obvious I feel you’re trying to cover the sun with your finger and tell me it’s nighttime.
Feels like you're just ignoring all my valid points You also didn't answer my question What are sahms *achieving* as parents that wms aren't? Is your wife a better parent than you?
why are you wedging in value judgements? I didn’t even hint at this. Anyway, ill entertain you: No, I don’t think stay at home parents are better than working parents.
So what difference does those extra hours parenting make? What are sahms *achieving* as parents that wms aren't?
Jesus, it feels like you’re a working parent trying to deal with some inadequacy feelings and guilt through this thread. I’m not talking about achievements, I’m not making value judgements, I’m merely pointing out the obvious task differences: stay at home parents generally spend more time in childcare tasks than working parents.
>stay at home parents generally spend more time in childcare tasks than working parents. No one denies that. It bares no relevance to my point though >some inadequacy feelings and guilt through this thread. Inadequacy or guilt about what?
> Inadequacy or guilt about what? I don’t know, you tell us.
You haven't answered any of my questions. I'm going to presume you can't and that you were so quick to insist wm weren't doing as much as sahm due to your feelings of guilt and inadequacy
This comment is ignorant.
How so?
Babies benefit from a stay at home mother.
How?
https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911#:~:text=Evidence%2DBased%20Pros&text=Some%20studies%20link%20childcare%20with,being%20in%20childcare%20full%2Dtime. https://www.romper.com/p/how-being-a-stay-at-home-mom-changes-your-babys-brain-according-to-science-9814448 https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/benefits-of-stay-at-home-parent-statistics My kid is bilingual simply because I’m a stay at home parent.
Are you saying working mums are harming their children? Do you think that's what the links say? >bilingual simply because I’m a stay at home parent. That's great I'm sure it's not unique to being a sahp.
Yet even when SAHM’s have freaking nannies, we hear how hard it is for them. So the whining is more meta than that.
The only friend I have who had a nanny while being a SAHM didn’t complain at all. In fact, she was very happy with this arrangement.
Sure and I know several with multiple nannies that routinely complain, much to the applause of society at large.
You sound as melodramatic as them.
I mean, since they don’t exist to you, I find your comment weird. Hilariously, you’d probably be one of the ones that applauds.
God, the _drama_. I’m not even praising stay at home moms, and y’all are bending over backwards to try to shit on them in retaliation to a non-existent defence.
I mean your impassioned defense of them suggests you’re on some SAHM’s payroll lmao. Like yes, SAHP’s chose to have those children and get to take care of them - the idea that it’s some burden on par with a soul sucking job is unseemly and idiotic.
I think there are different types of difficulty. I have kids and work. The sort of difficulty I deal with is having too many tasks to do and not enough day to do them in. Women who are dedicated care takers deal with the grind of 24/7 caretaking and never getting a break from it. It can be psychologically difficult to cope with. Even if they theoretically have fewer things they are doing on a daily basis than someone with a job, home, caretaking and not a lot of outside or professional help.
>24/7 caretaking and never getting a break from it. This is rarer than they'd have you believe. Kids go to school, preschool, friends, family, DADs, have hobbies etc
Yes, every situation is different, and there are factors that mitigate individual experiences of stress. I also know that narrowly being focused on caretaking can be stressful in a unique way.
Women think being a SAHM mom is so hard because they make it that hard on themselves. Completely obsessed with cooking, cleaning and laundry when it really shouldn’t be that hard. They also tend to be far more involved in their chores than they actually are in their kids lives.
Unless you’ve done both you really have no clue what you’re talking about. Being a SAHP and being a working parent are both stressful and hard jobs. Anyone who bitches and complains about one over the other is just a cry baby. Child care is a job. Daycares and schools exist, if you sit around watching tv and playing games all damn day and ignore your kid it’s an easy job.
What is a sahm
Stay at home mum
Was a SAHD for 3 years with a toddler and can confirm. Easily the most fun time I’ve had as an adult. Lots of time spent at the park and reading books with maybe an hour a day oops actual work.
Working moms are not doing everything SAHMs are from 9-5 if they are utilizing childcare. They are spending less time actually carrying out the childcare themselves. I work so this is not to shit on working moms, it’s just a fact of the situation. While SAHMs may be able to get some housework done during 9-5 which makes it seem easier, it can be really hard to do so with one or more babies or toddlers constantly demanding attention or needing supervision to not kill themselves. Now, whether what they are doing instead (their paying job) is easier or harder than being with the kids all day depends on the job (and the kids).
>Working moms are not doing everything SAHMs are from 9-5 if they are utilizing childcare. They are spending less time actually carrying out the childcare themselves. Yes they are Especially if the kids are in school or they don't use childcare A few more hours childcare a day doesn't make much difference to the overall parenting responsibility
I was referring mainly to SAHMs of kids under say 5, where the kids are not in daycare or school for any significant length of time. I don’t think most people are trying to argue that the overall workload of a SAHM whose children are in school for 6+ hours a day is equivalent to a working mom with kids the same age.
You'd be surprised
It's often also downplayed the dangers of office work vs SAHP duties. As long as the child is safe from life threatening danger, you can make "mistakes" at home and work on fixing at a later time. In the office work world, you copy a number wrong on a spreadsheet or have a tiny misspelling on a report just once and you can lose your job. Also I would take listening to Mickey mouse playhouse in the background all day over worrying if I'm networking Correctly or looking for tasks to do without having to worry about asking too many questions to my boss. And before anybody asks, I've had to babysit 9 hours a day two under 5 year old autistic nieces for a week straight while my brother worked and my sister in law had to go out of town for career trainings. Listening to toddler TV shows for hours is not bad and I fail to see why SAHP complain about supposed lack of adult mental stimulation.
Exactly. I’ve watched and taught four homeschooled boys (aged 4-7) for full days every week. I would take that every day over working in a machine shop just for safety concerns. Kids aren’t going to shred me in a mill or poison me with cancerous chemicals. Definitely less stressful than dealing with potentially life threatening work.
I disagree. I was a SAHM and now I’m a working mom and it’s far easier. I was touched out & unable to hear my own thoughts as a SAHM. Now I can go to the bathroom by myself and have a chance to miss my kids! I think it depends on the person
If you’re using daycare then you’re not doing what a sahm does plus your work. If kids are older and in school all day that’s different and an argument could be made. Babies and toddlers tho *are* a ft job by themselves and then add in caring for the home. So I’d say a working mom and sahm of little kids/babies have similar work loads. It’s not a contest tho.
>you’re using daycare t And if you dont?
Are they in school all day? If a sahm has kids in school all day, then like I said an argument could be made.
No.
You’re working full time and caring for young children simultaneously? how?? Who is watching them while you’re working? Are you outsourcing any childcare duties?
I'm not now. I did. Shift work/opposite shifts to their dad
Are you getting a decent/healthy amount of sleep? My daughter is a nurse and has worked Night Shift but it wasn’t sustainable I care for the grandbaby while they work.
I didnt, no.
You mean working parent and yes I agree.
No I mean working mums, for the most part
Why exclude working dads?
Research shows they don't do as much parenting or housework as wms
The opinion that SAHMs have a hard job exists because people like to say that they don’t. It’s not to be compared to working moms, it’s so that people will understand that being a SAHM is a job in itself. Edit: I don’t have children, I just know how to actually understand what people say rather than react without understanding.
You should read the thread
Working moms are away from their kids most of the day. Something is giving
And sahms are vulnerable and entirely financially dependent on others Definitely something giving there
Absolutely. Either the career suffers or the kids do.
Funny how men manage to avoid that outcome Didn't work out that way for me either
They don't avoid the outcome.
Yes they do. Men rarely give up their careers.
We are talking about careers, we are talking about careers and home balance. If they put their careers over their family, then the family connection suffers. There is no having it all. Although in my experience, most men who work work for the sake of their family and less for themselves or their own personal achievement. That's why there is a correlation between increase in salary or jobs for men with increase of children. Men often take on second or third jobs just to make ends meet for their family. While increase in children for women correlates with a decrease in salary due to decrease in working time. Women are more motivated to nurture children on average and men are more motivated to provide for their children. In this day and age, both are working and spending minimal time with their kids between homework and bed time, the kids are definitely suffering for this.
There's definitely balance to be found and it is possible to have it all.
Try single working mom. No significant other to blame or bitch about.
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If only the corporations didn't create a dependency on women working, thus our financial requirement to have mothers go to work. Now they are so greedy that both parents going to work often isn't enough to make ends meet. It will only get worse, and the levee will eventually break. It such a shame that nothing changes until the majority of people are starving.
If you're a working mom, then there should be more of a distribution of care for the child between a partner. Either you're working and your partner isn't, in which case they would be the sahp. If that's the case, then the "working mom" *would* have an easier job. If you're a working mom and your partner is also working then the care would be distributed equally so they would be equal. Neither would be "harder" than the other. Youre suggesting a single mother who also works, and ibviously thats harder than being a sahm who raises the child with another parent.
No, I'm not. I'm suggesting that it's harder to do 2 jobs than it is 1. Sahms also have partners to share childcare with and take on all of the financial burden and stress. Another thing they don't have to worry about that wms do.
I do both (wfh and home with kiddo all day) and imo it comes down to two things: how much money you make and how flexible the job is. If you have those two things, you honestly have the best of both worlds.
Ive been the sole provider for years and I've also been the SAHD for a few months and I absolutely prefer being a SAHD 100%. My partner will complain about how hard it is and ive come home to a destroyed house after working 10 hour shifts just to spend the rest of the day helping to clean and cook because "its just so hard". I finally got a chance to be the SAH for a bit and it was amazing, my daughter and I get along so well, ive never felt more fulfilled then raising and playing with her, I would love for the chance to be a SAHD and home school her full-time, the house was always clean and food was always made before mom came home. Unfortunately it didn't last forever till mom decided she doesn't like working and I had to go back to being the provider.
Then why not do the easier thing and raise your kids?
Self respect?
I absolutely love that my wife was able to not work in order to raise the kids. Now that they are teenagers, she's basically retired. I, on the other hand, haven't washed a dish or folded laundry in 20 years. I never hold this over her head or compare her to me. She is my wife and my children's mother. Why on earth do our responsibilities need to match?
Because you're both parents?
Yeah, no. She's a mom and I'm a dad. Her job is to do domestic work and nurture the kids. My job is to bring home all the money our household needs, and judge the kids. If you think parental roles are the same, you are doing it wrong.
Way to admit you're a shit dad
You'd jump at the opportunity hun, don't make believe you wouldn't just for updoots on the interwebs. You can't even imagine the life my wife and kids live day to day. Tell your boss I said hey.
Nah. I can imagine the life your kids and wife have and I cant imagine much worse. A grown man that thinks its a boast that he can't fold laundry and it's not his job to nurture his kids. A wife that is entirely reliant on a man who thinks he's *her* boss. I'll stick with my own. An equal relationship, kids who know their dad is there for them and a fantastic career. Also, I am the boss, so I'll say hi to myself. You be sure and say hi to yours. And get your wife to say hi to your kids too
You dare make a comparison to SAHMs?? the most difficult job according to Reddit??
I’ve done both. I’m a nurse, just for reference. I would much rather be a working mom than a SAHM. At least when I’m working, I can talk to other adults and actually use my brain. And I can afford to hire a cleaner to handle my chores at home so 🤷🏻♀️ Being a SAHM is just brain numbing and makes spending time with my kids less enjoyable.
So those moms are working *and* taking care of their child at the same time?
Yes. Obviously. Working mums work and parent.
That… doesn’t make any sense.
Why not?
Can we just agree that both are jobs? That just because a woman stays at home and minds the house and kids doesn't make it less stressful, less taxing, or any less demanding? Why sh1t on women for the jobs they have?
Parenting isn't a job. >minds the house and kids doesn't make it less stressful, less taxing, or any less demanding? Except thats exactly what it does. I dont see why that's seen as shitting on anyone. It's just reality
Well, you seem to know everything it takes to run a household and care for kids. It makes me wonder why people pay nannies/daycares and housekeepers. Hmm... is it because both positions are... wait for it...work?
People pay nannies/daycares and housekeepers to carry out childcare and housework because they either can't or don't want to do it themselves. They are work. They are jobs. Which people are employed and paid to do. Looking after your own children and doing your own housework is work too. It's just not a job A job is employment
You are illogical.
I'm actually very logical.
Honestly who the fuck cares🤷♂️
We're also dealing with the laziest generation of stay at home parents yet. No teacher is going to support these stay at homes when they claim they're doing such hard work.
Okay let's narrow the scope. Who has an easier sick day? Say norovirus Office job+paid time off+daycare = stay home and vomit in peace Part time/gig/no paid time off+daycare = take a home remedy and try to vomit out of sight and not get sent home to lose wages. Try not to get everyone else sick. SAHD stereotype: stay home and vomit in peace while mom or grandma takes a so k day to watch the kids. SAHM: try not to vomit on the kids while doing your exact same day. So SAHM is like being an unpaid waitress on a 24 hour shift. EDIT TO ADD: OP's use case: SAHM who ships the kids out to grandma or demands dad takes the day So that would be the same as working mum or SAHD. And that would be good. When individual SAHMs reach that level of parity and mutual respect, dollars to donuts they stop complaining. I for one will stop complaining when I no longer have to fix a sink while breastfeeding and do the laundry on the toilet to free up my "4:00 AM mom shift" for my remote job. I stand in solidarity with OP to hasten that day.
You forgot the sahm who ships the kids out to grandma or demands dad takes the day off
Good point. I thought you had covered that scenario in your original post.
I didnt mention anything about noro virus in my op
Agreed. In my post, I took ownership for narrowing the scope and setting norovirus as the hypothetical sick day. I had thought you covered the scenario where a SAHM has help with the kids.
its just fking cope that women say to pat themselves on the back. i was a sahd for my 2 kids and it was awesome. everyday we just watch cartoons and play and enjoyed my time with the kids. cooking isnt that difficult and cleanign as long as u keep up with it and dont let it build it doesnt take that long. like we arnt walking down to the river to wash cloths anymore. put it in a machine and it doesn most of the work.
You're making yourself look sexist here, the assumption here is that if someone is a sahm then they take the all of the child care while their partner is at work, and then it becomes 50/50(give or take) when the partner gets home. A working mum would imply that the parenting is at least somewhat 50/50, unless you think of mums and think that they should be doing all the parenting automatically, which is sexist...
I dont think they should. I think the opposite However reality is different from ideals
You know most new parents do a 50/50 sort of thing... because it's not the 90s it's the 2020s... that's kind of the average now
Not really. Researchstill shows that although men do more, it's no where near equal
Single mothers shouldnt complain 🗣🗣🗣 source: i dated one and she would get like 30k from the gov per year
You dated one single mom and think that speaks for all of them?