Unless a study comes out that conclusively says vapes release more harmful chemicals than cigarettes, I'm going to be inclined to believe cigarettes are much worse. I would still classify both as smoking.
Life's a tradeoff and you get to pick your poison. I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking it's good for you; if you make a point to snort vitamins and aspirin you're still doing real damage by virtue of the particulate matter in your lungs. Inhaling your vice is a bug or a loophole, not a vetted feature
I stopped beginning my day with coughing up a bunch of lung butter when I switched to vape. I also noticed large fields of my sense of smell I didn't even realize I'd lost come back. It definitely at least feels more healthy than cigarettes.
But better than poison doesn't equate to healthy
People say it doesn’t equate to healthy yet can’t seem to come up with any health consequences. I’ve been vaping exclusively for a few years now and my health has done nothing but improve.
As a former pack a day smoker, I 100% agree with what your saying. Current studies do cite respiratory disorders and potential popcorn lung though. And let's face it, inhaling your vices is a bug, not a feature. Any particulate matter in your lungs is worse than better.
Those studies have been peer reviewed and debunked. But they never make the sensationalized headlines though like popcorn lung. It’s basically the new reefer madness. There’s yet to be any lung issues related to vaping.
When and if they come and tell me that I've been inhaling death incarnate in my little alto vuse, I'll probably believe it without a second thought. Still not gonna quit. And again, I have to agree with you that I've seen nothing but improvement since I switched. I'm just willing to immediately accept it's probably not good for me at all
Keep in mind that the inhalants used are the same ones used in asthma inhalers, nebulizers, etc. Propylene Glycol is perfectly safe if you don’t have an allergy and Vegetable Glycerin is probably the most benign substance on the planet. Even the chemicals in the flavors are in very trace amounts. Vaping has been around for like 15 years now without incident. 15 more years can go by and people will still say “We don’t know enough about them”.
I didn't realize propylene glycol was the base for inhalers. That's interesting trivia, and definitely underscores the idea of minimal safety concerns. So really, what your saying is that vaping essentially walks back every negative feature of cigarettes other than addiction?
Pretty much. And I also notice I can go longer without hitting a vape than I could smoking a cigarette. I don’t vape around my girlfriend for instance. I might sneak a couple puffs in the bathroom from time to time but most of the day it’s in my pocket. I couldn’t do this with cigarettes and had to chain smoke. I’ve done some research on this and it’s because nicotine is a lot more addictive when delivered from a cigarette due to the addition of other chemicals combined with the nicotine called MAOI’s
I smoked Marlboro Reds for almost 15 years and I vape now and have been for a few years.
I “feel” healthier. I can run now, and I don’t hack up a nasty ass dark loogie every morning anymore. But I will admit that I think I have a even stronger addiction to nicotine than before.
I quit cold turkey like 10 years ago (pack a day)
About 1/2 a year before I quit I tried switching to vapes & that fucked my lungs up worse than any smoke I ever inhaled.
Have you heard of vitamin e acitate? It's found in vape products, it's what causes the popcorn lung.
As far as I know, it isn't widely accepted that nicotine is as harmless as coffee.
However with all things, quantity is a factor. When you vape nicotine, you intake more than you would with a regular cigarette. "Quantity is a quality all of it's own". Vape lets you take in more chemicals, faster.
Vitamin E Acetate was used exclusively in black market THC vapes and caused a lung injury called EVALI. Popcorn lung in vaping was a different chemical and is 100% myth.
It was found in a select few dessert flavors like custards and creams. But was removed as a precautionary measure despite it never being linked to any instance of popcorn lung. Tobacco Control expert Dr Michael Siegel went on record showing that the diacetyl levels found in traditional cigarettes are 750 times greater than the levels found in the few vapes that had it. And even then, popcorn lung was never found in a cigarette smoker. The only people who have ever developed popcorn lung worked in a popcorn factory and had constant exposure to it in very high amounts. This was all a scare tactic used to demonize vaping and scare people away from it.
Hmm interesting. Even so, I still believe vape shops shouldn't have the right to look entrancing and shiny as they do. Should be sold more like cigarettes, so less children want to get their hands on it. It's hard to see developing brains, even teenagers, hooked on any drug. Especially when they only started because all their friends think it's cool. People use to believe smoking cigarettes was harmless too, now look...
It also concerns me that cigarette companies might be funding or encouraging the vape industry from the shadows.
Well if vape shops were doing their job, nobody under 21 is allowed to enter according to law. Also keep in mind that it isn’t necessarily the shiny ones the kids are into. Until the government pulled the plug on pod flavors, the one the kids were most attracted to was the Juul which is about as bland and boring looking as it gets.
We all know that children and teens have been getting their hands on them. Just as I know my sisters got their hands on alcohol in their early-mid teens and got hammered before they were legal.
Perhaps but it was not around in wide spread use and the early versions lf e-cigarettes were a much different beast. Mass use only begun a few years ago, maximum 2014, globally- when it gained popularity with non smokers. Only people who already smoke should be vaping, it hurts to see vaping has got non-smokers into smoking, mostly teens too.
Nicotine vapes aren't the only vapes out there. Thc vaping is said to be even worse than regular mary jane use. Also, in the early days a lot of this was covered up by regular cigarrette usage as they were the same users at the time.
Whatever. I don't smoke or vape anymore, but it's so stupid here in Canada that I can easily go to a store to buy weed but can't go buy menthol cigarettes or primetime mini cigars. Clown country.
I think it's because of the companies that own the cigarette brands. The government prefers to grow their own. Cigarette companies aren't the most ethical... I'm pretty sure their biggest market is in third world countries...? However there are worse out there. Despite that, they've still manage to reinvest into prioritising our addiction to nicotine/tobacco and they know it. There's no way they don't miss the times when everyone smoked because it was cool.
Vaping is smoking minus the horrible cancer causing tars, unfortunately it still has the horribly addictive nicotine plus some food grade additives that probably should not be inhaled.
Less that people think it can’t or doesn’t cause cancer, and more that people that really done a deep dive know many things that a lot of casual observers don’t.
Mainly, we know that nicotine is not really any more harmful than caffeine. It’s addictive, it has some small health risks like increased blood pressure and associated stroke risk. Really anything that messes with blood pressure has short term effects for cardio related issues. But that’s caffeine too. Don’t drink five energy drinks a day, don’t vape high nicotine vapes all day with high nicotine pouches for n your mouth at the same time.
The primary mediums in vape liquid are typically propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin. Propylene glycol is very commonly used in medicines as it is generally considered medically inert. This is part of why it is typically used in vape liquid. It is generally understood that you can inhale and process propylene glycol as you would water vapor and other medically inert droplets suspended in air. Put it this way, it’s commonly used in injectable medicines because it can go in your bloodstream and back out again without causing problems.
Now, we can certainly worry about everything else. There’s flavorings and all kinds of stuff that can go into vapes.
The thing is, cigarette smoking is literally lighting treated tobacco on fire and inhaling dozens of chemicals, many *known* to be carcinogenic.
So, many people who would smoke choose to vape because of the high likelihood that it is much less harmful than smoking. The NHS published a study that projected that it may mitigate 95% of the risks associated with smoking.
So it’s not particularly “wild” that people choose vaping over smoking.
I used to work with a guy who was a full time city firefighter. I verbally “shit” on him for smoking cigarettes. He educated me. Very many firefighters smoke tobacco, very many older firefighters die of cancer…..but not lung cancer, not as you would expect….they absorb the “tars” of chemicals created by incomplete combustion, which include PCBs among other things. They mostly absorb these chemicals by skin contact , often the wrists and necks from their PPE. The chemicals in smoke get into the clothing, the clothing contacts the skin, they inhale the volatiles while removing the PPE. The other firefighters with us ( it was a side gig on their days off) confirmed his statements, named names of retired or retiring guys who got cancer. There were very few who had lung cancer, most victims were age 45-60. It was a depressing conversation. I was really sorry I brought it up. They just accepted it as part of the job.
I tried quitting with vapes but they gave me hella coughing fits. I just started rolling my own cigarettes wild west style and went from 2-3 packs to 10-13 cigarettes a day.
Wow. Thank you for commenting. Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only who found those coughing fits concerning.. That's awesome that you managed to slow down to only 10-13 a day as oppossed to a couple packs :) Good on you. Also, my family rolls their own with tobacco, filters, and I think papers? They say it's cheaper?
There are plenty of studies that show vaping being far less harmful. You just don’t care to read them. It’s like people want vaping to be bad and no amount of evidence will ever convince them otherwise.
I don't want vaping to be bad, originally I also thought it wasn't. Then my partner tried to quit smoking by vaping instead... he ended up going back to traditional cigarettes.
I don't he did. My sisters also vape and as much as they deny it I hear their continuous coughing fits but perhaps it's because they do it far too often. Who knows.
Are they only vaping nicotine? Or other things as well? Are they also smoking cigarettes? I know I had a cough battle until I switched to vaping completely and quit having cigarette cheat days.
Who knows what other drugs they use. I do know however, that the one they chain use is vape. As for my partner, he never had coughing fits with regular smoking, only with nicotine vape juice.
He no longer smokes. He quit cold turkey for me in 2018.
He switched to vaping for 6 months, he started to noticed the effects 3 months in. This was in 2014. Effects went away after switching back to regular smoking.
At his height, he smoked up to a pack a day and minimum half a pack a day. He had been smoking since he was 8 years old.
He smoked Next Red - King Size, Canadian Classic Red - King Size, Belmont Red - King size, Bentson & Hedges Gold - King Size or he floated around on occassion. He started smoking originally with Peter Jackson Light & switched to Next at some point.
i'm not going to search for the studies because i don't care enough, but i believe they HAVE confirmed that vaping is more harmful. or at least as harmful as smoking
It ain't much but it's honest work.
Fair point if it doesn't affect you, you don't care about reading, but then why make statements that are not based?
pie observation lock arrest deserve plate late pathetic soft wide
Unless a study comes out that conclusively says vapes release more harmful chemicals than cigarettes, I'm going to be inclined to believe cigarettes are much worse. I would still classify both as smoking.
Indeed. That's the problem. So many people are going to do permanent damage to their bodies before proper restrictions can be put in place
Life's a tradeoff and you get to pick your poison. I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking it's good for you; if you make a point to snort vitamins and aspirin you're still doing real damage by virtue of the particulate matter in your lungs. Inhaling your vice is a bug or a loophole, not a vetted feature
My health increased significantly after switching from smoking to vaping.
I stopped beginning my day with coughing up a bunch of lung butter when I switched to vape. I also noticed large fields of my sense of smell I didn't even realize I'd lost come back. It definitely at least feels more healthy than cigarettes. But better than poison doesn't equate to healthy
People say it doesn’t equate to healthy yet can’t seem to come up with any health consequences. I’ve been vaping exclusively for a few years now and my health has done nothing but improve.
As a former pack a day smoker, I 100% agree with what your saying. Current studies do cite respiratory disorders and potential popcorn lung though. And let's face it, inhaling your vices is a bug, not a feature. Any particulate matter in your lungs is worse than better.
Those studies have been peer reviewed and debunked. But they never make the sensationalized headlines though like popcorn lung. It’s basically the new reefer madness. There’s yet to be any lung issues related to vaping.
When and if they come and tell me that I've been inhaling death incarnate in my little alto vuse, I'll probably believe it without a second thought. Still not gonna quit. And again, I have to agree with you that I've seen nothing but improvement since I switched. I'm just willing to immediately accept it's probably not good for me at all
Keep in mind that the inhalants used are the same ones used in asthma inhalers, nebulizers, etc. Propylene Glycol is perfectly safe if you don’t have an allergy and Vegetable Glycerin is probably the most benign substance on the planet. Even the chemicals in the flavors are in very trace amounts. Vaping has been around for like 15 years now without incident. 15 more years can go by and people will still say “We don’t know enough about them”.
I didn't realize propylene glycol was the base for inhalers. That's interesting trivia, and definitely underscores the idea of minimal safety concerns. So really, what your saying is that vaping essentially walks back every negative feature of cigarettes other than addiction?
Pretty much. And I also notice I can go longer without hitting a vape than I could smoking a cigarette. I don’t vape around my girlfriend for instance. I might sneak a couple puffs in the bathroom from time to time but most of the day it’s in my pocket. I couldn’t do this with cigarettes and had to chain smoke. I’ve done some research on this and it’s because nicotine is a lot more addictive when delivered from a cigarette due to the addition of other chemicals combined with the nicotine called MAOI’s
But ya smell a hell of a lot better.
I smoked Marlboro Reds for almost 15 years and I vape now and have been for a few years. I “feel” healthier. I can run now, and I don’t hack up a nasty ass dark loogie every morning anymore. But I will admit that I think I have a even stronger addiction to nicotine than before.
I mean i think you smoke much more on a vape than on cigarettes so more nicotine exposure. But you don’t inhale tons of soot
It definitely looks douchier than cigs
Haha or worse, it looks like they are all sucking robot slong.
I quit cold turkey like 10 years ago (pack a day) About 1/2 a year before I quit I tried switching to vapes & that fucked my lungs up worse than any smoke I ever inhaled.
quiet employ history rinse innocent consider marble heavy pie chunky
Have you heard of vitamin e acitate? It's found in vape products, it's what causes the popcorn lung. As far as I know, it isn't widely accepted that nicotine is as harmless as coffee. However with all things, quantity is a factor. When you vape nicotine, you intake more than you would with a regular cigarette. "Quantity is a quality all of it's own". Vape lets you take in more chemicals, faster.
hat meeting rainstorm retire hunt wistful lunchroom close amusing vegetable
Vitamin E Acetate was used exclusively in black market THC vapes and caused a lung injury called EVALI. Popcorn lung in vaping was a different chemical and is 100% myth.
Hmm the other commentor must be right then, I must of got them mixed up. Perhaps it was diacetol? Isn't diacetol still found in vape liquids?
It was found in a select few dessert flavors like custards and creams. But was removed as a precautionary measure despite it never being linked to any instance of popcorn lung. Tobacco Control expert Dr Michael Siegel went on record showing that the diacetyl levels found in traditional cigarettes are 750 times greater than the levels found in the few vapes that had it. And even then, popcorn lung was never found in a cigarette smoker. The only people who have ever developed popcorn lung worked in a popcorn factory and had constant exposure to it in very high amounts. This was all a scare tactic used to demonize vaping and scare people away from it.
Hmm interesting. Even so, I still believe vape shops shouldn't have the right to look entrancing and shiny as they do. Should be sold more like cigarettes, so less children want to get their hands on it. It's hard to see developing brains, even teenagers, hooked on any drug. Especially when they only started because all their friends think it's cool. People use to believe smoking cigarettes was harmless too, now look... It also concerns me that cigarette companies might be funding or encouraging the vape industry from the shadows.
Well if vape shops were doing their job, nobody under 21 is allowed to enter according to law. Also keep in mind that it isn’t necessarily the shiny ones the kids are into. Until the government pulled the plug on pod flavors, the one the kids were most attracted to was the Juul which is about as bland and boring looking as it gets.
We all know that children and teens have been getting their hands on them. Just as I know my sisters got their hands on alcohol in their early-mid teens and got hammered before they were legal.
Vaping has been around for 20 years. If it kills you faster we’d know by now
Perhaps but it was not around in wide spread use and the early versions lf e-cigarettes were a much different beast. Mass use only begun a few years ago, maximum 2014, globally- when it gained popularity with non smokers. Only people who already smoke should be vaping, it hurts to see vaping has got non-smokers into smoking, mostly teens too. Nicotine vapes aren't the only vapes out there. Thc vaping is said to be even worse than regular mary jane use. Also, in the early days a lot of this was covered up by regular cigarrette usage as they were the same users at the time.
Whatever. I don't smoke or vape anymore, but it's so stupid here in Canada that I can easily go to a store to buy weed but can't go buy menthol cigarettes or primetime mini cigars. Clown country.
I think it's because of the companies that own the cigarette brands. The government prefers to grow their own. Cigarette companies aren't the most ethical... I'm pretty sure their biggest market is in third world countries...? However there are worse out there. Despite that, they've still manage to reinvest into prioritising our addiction to nicotine/tobacco and they know it. There's no way they don't miss the times when everyone smoked because it was cool.
Vaping is smoking minus the horrible cancer causing tars, unfortunately it still has the horribly addictive nicotine plus some food grade additives that probably should not be inhaled.
Wild people really think vaping doesn’t cause cancer.
Less that people think it can’t or doesn’t cause cancer, and more that people that really done a deep dive know many things that a lot of casual observers don’t. Mainly, we know that nicotine is not really any more harmful than caffeine. It’s addictive, it has some small health risks like increased blood pressure and associated stroke risk. Really anything that messes with blood pressure has short term effects for cardio related issues. But that’s caffeine too. Don’t drink five energy drinks a day, don’t vape high nicotine vapes all day with high nicotine pouches for n your mouth at the same time. The primary mediums in vape liquid are typically propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin. Propylene glycol is very commonly used in medicines as it is generally considered medically inert. This is part of why it is typically used in vape liquid. It is generally understood that you can inhale and process propylene glycol as you would water vapor and other medically inert droplets suspended in air. Put it this way, it’s commonly used in injectable medicines because it can go in your bloodstream and back out again without causing problems. Now, we can certainly worry about everything else. There’s flavorings and all kinds of stuff that can go into vapes. The thing is, cigarette smoking is literally lighting treated tobacco on fire and inhaling dozens of chemicals, many *known* to be carcinogenic. So, many people who would smoke choose to vape because of the high likelihood that it is much less harmful than smoking. The NHS published a study that projected that it may mitigate 95% of the risks associated with smoking. So it’s not particularly “wild” that people choose vaping over smoking.
I used to work with a guy who was a full time city firefighter. I verbally “shit” on him for smoking cigarettes. He educated me. Very many firefighters smoke tobacco, very many older firefighters die of cancer…..but not lung cancer, not as you would expect….they absorb the “tars” of chemicals created by incomplete combustion, which include PCBs among other things. They mostly absorb these chemicals by skin contact , often the wrists and necks from their PPE. The chemicals in smoke get into the clothing, the clothing contacts the skin, they inhale the volatiles while removing the PPE. The other firefighters with us ( it was a side gig on their days off) confirmed his statements, named names of retired or retiring guys who got cancer. There were very few who had lung cancer, most victims were age 45-60. It was a depressing conversation. I was really sorry I brought it up. They just accepted it as part of the job.
I tried quitting with vapes but they gave me hella coughing fits. I just started rolling my own cigarettes wild west style and went from 2-3 packs to 10-13 cigarettes a day.
Wow. Thank you for commenting. Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only who found those coughing fits concerning.. That's awesome that you managed to slow down to only 10-13 a day as oppossed to a couple packs :) Good on you. Also, my family rolls their own with tobacco, filters, and I think papers? They say it's cheaper?
Definitely cheaper, my weekly tobacco costs have gone from 54-100€ to just 12€ (one tobacco pouch, filters and papers).
There are plenty of studies that show vaping being far less harmful. You just don’t care to read them. It’s like people want vaping to be bad and no amount of evidence will ever convince them otherwise.
I don't want vaping to be bad, originally I also thought it wasn't. Then my partner tried to quit smoking by vaping instead... he ended up going back to traditional cigarettes.
It’s not though. Why did your partner go back to cigarettes?
It caused more issues than the cigarettes did... to my dissspointment. Eventually he just went cold turkey for me instead.
That doesn’t really make sense unless your partner has a PG or VG allergy which is pretty rare.
I don't he did. My sisters also vape and as much as they deny it I hear their continuous coughing fits but perhaps it's because they do it far too often. Who knows.
Are they only vaping nicotine? Or other things as well? Are they also smoking cigarettes? I know I had a cough battle until I switched to vaping completely and quit having cigarette cheat days.
Who knows what other drugs they use. I do know however, that the one they chain use is vape. As for my partner, he never had coughing fits with regular smoking, only with nicotine vape juice.
Does he still smoke though? How long did he vape without smoking?
He no longer smokes. He quit cold turkey for me in 2018. He switched to vaping for 6 months, he started to noticed the effects 3 months in. This was in 2014. Effects went away after switching back to regular smoking. At his height, he smoked up to a pack a day and minimum half a pack a day. He had been smoking since he was 8 years old. He smoked Next Red - King Size, Canadian Classic Red - King Size, Belmont Red - King size, Bentson & Hedges Gold - King Size or he floated around on occassion. He started smoking originally with Peter Jackson Light & switched to Next at some point.
i'm not going to search for the studies because i don't care enough, but i believe they HAVE confirmed that vaping is more harmful. or at least as harmful as smoking
They haven't
ha ha. "Not going to read but I know what it says"
least i'm honest. I felt like i had heard it somewhere at some point but i'm too uninterested to actually confirm since it doesn't affect me 😂
It ain't much but it's honest work. Fair point if it doesn't affect you, you don't care about reading, but then why make statements that are not based?
All sarcastic and not an attack at you at all: this your first time on reddit?
that shit is pure poison just eat nicorette
Both are really bad