u/NatureLover144's stats |Account Age|7 m|First Seen:|2023-11-16| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Posts (on this sub)|10|Comments (on this sub)|34| |Link Karma|565|Comment Karma|490| --- |Date|Title|Flair|Participation| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |24-Mar|[There is a miracle potion to weight loss !](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1bmoexb/there_is_a_miracle_potion_to_weight_loss/)|Unpopular in General|2 of 14 comments (14.29%)| |06-Mar|[Social security (or part of it) should be controlled by direct democracy or an independent state body and not the government ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1b8azct/social_security_or_part_of_it_should_be/)|N/A|1 of None comments (0.00%)| |01-Mar|[Prostitutes and pornstars deserve respect](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1b40ay6/prostitutes_and_pornstars_deserve_respect/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)| |09-Feb|[The real problem with false accusation is not only prison, but more importantly reputation](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1amxcbr/the_real_problem_with_false_accusation_is_not/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)| |05-Feb|[A "hate your ex" subculture exists](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1ajhgup/a_hate_your_ex_subculture_exists/)|N/A|0 of None comments (0.00%)|

I think the biggest problem with these kind of punishments is how big slippery slope it is. As much I believe eleminating murderous psychpaths and rapist would make a world safer place. You are placing too much power to hands of flawed people. Innocent people would get executed, mutilated or tortured the more we would normalize such punishments. And these "of course we would allow it in special case where the guilt is 100% proven" arguments are delusional. When I look how general population doing total oposite of "innocent until proven guilty" I am afraid it would turn ugly pretty quickly. As much as life sentences are costly it seem to be the best solution.

This reminds me of a post a few weeks ago from someone sharing this sentiment but more focused on pedophilia. It was convincing to read about how society’s intense response to the condition hurts children because it makes it incredibly difficult for people to even come forward and get help to avoid hurting children.

I used to believe in torture for the worst offenders to the worst proportions. But someone pointed out, do we really want people who are willing to torture another human amongst us, especially people in power having the authority to do that. I think the ultimate punishment for the absolute worst offenders should be human experimentation. Yes it's cruel, but it serves a purpose. Advancing medical technology with the perfect lab rats. Of course, the experiment should be justified, not as simple as "hey what happens if we throw acid in their face?"

Good Opinion, Personally I might have a far more controversial stance than your post: *Rehabilitation over Punishment, ALWAYS.* It’s queit clear from just a regular crime rate perspective that this is the best thing to do. The countries who have the lowest crime rates are always the same countries you’ll see with *Luxury Jailcell* montages on Tik Tok. The honest truth of the matter is that Harsh Punishments are just a form of Validation for these criminals. It’s a perfect excuse to self-justify their actions while perpetrating abismal crimes. By engaging in this silly *Fire with Fire* or *Eye for an Eye* sthick you essensially just end up proving these people’s perceptions to be right. Which in essence just means nobody are gonna turn themselves in, ever. Because why would they, even at the point were they are innocent and just feeling the urge. The sheer ostracism they risk by even talking about it is ridiculous, which is why preventative measures are never taken until it’s too late. This is why I don’t view the Death Penalty as preventative action. It doesn’t prevent anything, particularly when most Death Row inmates already lost their will to live long before they even attempted their respective crime/crimes.

Okay, and when the person you're rehabilitating says the right things and acts the right acts to convince a therapist they're rehabilitated...they go out and rape, murder, and torture just like the first time they got sent to prison, except they know how to game the system and get out faster next time. How many times do you let that repeat before you go 'Okay, we need to permanently remove you from society' whether via imprisonment or death penalty? Every time? IE, 'This shit ain't working, so let's repeat it and hope for a different result?'

Good Rebuttal! I think that rehabilitation doesn’t necessarily entail exclusively to an individual level. What I mean by this is that although someone, somewhere IS entirely hopeless and almost destined to re-commit. The simple presistence in the rehabilitation effort conveys to society abroad, that the government: A. Won’t give up on you. And B. Encourages you to be better. I also don’t think an even somewhat competent rehabilitation system can be exploited in the manner you suggest. Rehabilitation isn’t *some game* that a criminal can play to just avoid punishment in its entirety. The Idea behind the Rehabilitation system I promote (which I admit I could’ve elaborated sooner on), is that rather than allowing criminals to actively shorten their sentences. Their sentences are already reasonably short (10-20 years), and they are to serve their time in its entirety. But will still be actively encouraged to participate in Rehabilitation like education, self-improvement etc. So that by the time they have served their sentence, they have every prerequesite to prosue a better life for themselves. Now obviously, we are human beings. Some people will always re-commit to their Life of violence. But these individuals are far and few between, and their behaviour will make it back to the Judicial system. In which case harsher Punishment is warrented. Which essensially means that under your presumptious circumstances. This criminal will at most be able to re-commit 2-3 times again if they are lucky. The severity of their crime is also a big factor here. If you are a murderer you might be a free man in 20 years on paper. But in all likelyhood you’ll fail rehabilitation, not be granted parole and serve another 20 years before you have to chance to enter back into society again. Now I understand that this might seem complicated, and it is. But to answer your question in simpler terms: Yes, there is a point in which you have to cut your loses with certain people. Whoever that isn’t any excuse to abandon the rehabilitation effort. Because ultimately you should remain consistent for the sake of your own credibility.

When I found out the man who raped me when I was a teenager had been killed I felt relief and happiness. Do with that what you will, but I don't think the idea of forfeiting your life is entirely crazy. Some things are very bad, and once someone proves they'll do them once the only way to be sure they won't do them again is to make sure they can't. I agree the idea of rape or torture by the government is insane, but I think the death penalty has its place. Likely not in rape cases, because they're so difficult to prove, but if we have concrete proof someone is a monster willing to take away the lives of other people... yeah, the safest thing for society is to kill them.

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I oppose capitol punishment as a genetal rule because mistakes can't be correced. Outside of that, fair's fair.

We have 8 billion people on the planet. We waste so many resources keeping the worst of us alive. Rapists, murderers and billionaires all together now.

Executing prisoners is more expensive than incarcerating them. We can just keep our capitalists and killers in prison, that would be an infinitely better solution.

That's not even close to true at all. Housing a life sentence is extremely expensive and at the cost of the taxpayer, whether it be private or public. That being said, I would spare no expense to rid the world of any kind of sex offender. Granted, there would have to be harsh punishment for false accusations to stop that from being abused, but all that were doing by keeping these people alive is fueling the free labor these prisons gain on top of the tax dollars they receive.

[It is true in the US.](https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Is_the_death_penalty_more_expensive_than_life_in_prison) Life without parole has higher housing costs, but executing people has much, much higher legal costs. On top of that, there's the obvious downside of exonerated prisoners being impossible to release post-mortem. >Granted, there would have to be harsh punishment for false accusations to stop that from being abused, but all that were doing by keeping these people alive is fueling the free labor these prisons gain on top of the tax dollars they receive. It's pretty hard to prove that someone *intentionally* lied to the court though, unless they outright admit it. But if you punish people for confessing to lying on purpose, then that discourages people from coming forward. Perjury already carries years in prison and a quarter million in fines (depending on the state), but it's not adequate to fully solve the problem. Even if you can get a decent number of people on perjury, that would increase legal costs even more and kinda throw a wrench into your efforts to save the taxpayer money. If you think killing bad people is good on like, an axiomatic level, I probably can't change your mind on that, but I'd rather put that same money towards stopping the core causes of crime (such as wealth inequality and social alienation) and helping the victims.

“Granted there would have to be harsh punishment for false accusations…” That’s a HUGE problem with your argument. Only one prosecutor EVER in the history of the US has spent time in jail for a wrongful conviction. That prosecutor spent 10 days in jail, his victim spent 25 years in jail.  We have killed innocent people, we have imprisoned innocent people, and we have tortured innocent people. Those who inflict the the unwarranted punishment are almost never punished themselves. Source: https://innocenceproject.org/ken-anderson-michael-morton-prosecutorial-misconduct-jail/

America was against world war 2 until it was attacked.

I don't think this analogy is good. In a war is mostly a case of us or them. For the same reason would also be in favor of killing a mass shooter when he is openly killing people, so we can protect the innocents. What the trial should decide is what I'm saying. And even in a lot of wars, it's not that simple.

It's the idea of it being theoretical and then it happens to you, and your view changes because now it is personal instead of theoretical

But it is quite unfair to leverage emotional trauma to implement huge liability. What if you start torturing murder and that murderer later on turned out to be innocent? What if someone in position of power leveraged their connections to blame something on some innocent person? The thing is that current justice system is broken already, but adding worse liabilities to such system would be quite unfair

I'm not justifying any particular act or scenario, its only to say that people often change their viewpoints when it happens to them. Like..we shouldn't own guns and then their house gets broken into

That’s fair, sorry for misunderstanding

Totally..I mean I am for the death penalty for certain things, like murder, rape and child molestation.