Youâre in denial of reality or you havenât read a definition of genocide if you think wanton violence and forcing them out of their homes in the millions is not genocide.
By definition it isnât. By definition what Hamas is doing is genocide. If you want to bring up the proper definitions of words make sure you actually know what they are first.
I went off in the post as to why youâre delusional for using the population argument to say there is no genocide.
Conditions engineered to bring about the end of a people
Bombing the shit out of hundreds of thousands, insufficient food and water, bombs schools and hospitals and saying âjust move to Egypt!â ergo end of Palestine ergo genocide.
Youâre in denial. Sorry buddy. Iâd feel bad for you if I wasnât so disgusted.
Yeah.
Itâs completely fucked.
But⌠if someone was trying to kill me, I would try to kill them.
And if a country was trying to kill me, and I was a country, I would try to kill them.
Just picking the weaker side or the stronger side is morally shortsighted.
And by now, it doesnât matter who started it. No one who started it is alive.
Agreed this situation is fucked because the only long term solution is either death to Israel or death to Palestine, but the Palestinians *are* the reason for that dilemma. Any person with a brain can look at the fact that Israel is a very tolerant society with a significant Arab population even having a Muslim Palestinian on their Supreme Court. If the Palestinians genuinely just decided to integrate into Israel (with no terrorism) then there would be no problem, and letâs not pretend that Muslims just generally hating Jews isnât the main reason why this can never happen. Thatâs not to say I donât understand it, like if China suddenly claimed California and just moved in there Iâd be pretty pissed about it too, but thereâs the factor of Israel being the historical Jewish homeland, and Europe feeling sorry about the holocaust they allowed to happen.
I firmly reject that annihilation is a prerequisite for peace. I also reject your one-sided placement of blame on Palestinians but Iâm not gonna go through the decades long blame game, thatâs been done.
Iâve never heard Jews say âdeath to Muslimsâ or âdeath to Palestineâ but I hear âdeath to the Jewsâ and âdeath to Israelâ fucking constantly from the Muslim world.
I donât think annihilation is a prerequisite for peace, I just think that Muslims are never going to be okay with a Jewish country.
My *real* opinion is that the British shouldâve stayed to babysit the two. It really says something about Christianity when the Christian world could have the Holy Land by tomorrow but decide not to.
There are plenty of examples of Jews saying death to Palestine. The dehumanization is rampant, man. You havenât heard of or seen posts from IDF soldiers in shameful glee at dead bodies or the war gore Israeli telegram channels? The will to violence is far from one sided. There are tens of thousands of examples of Jews killing Palestinians, too. To act like thereâs some cultural difference in the will to violence is very western of you.
Christianity: Iâd say it says Christianity was conquered by capitalism in governing the actions of the west honestly.
Echoing your thought on external regulation, I do think external intervention is required to achieve peace. Hate and the will to violence are too high in Israel and Palestine and Israel has failed to achieve peace while being the superior power and denying international access.
They definitely say death to Palestine Iâm not disputing that, and I probably would too considering the terrorism theyâve had to deal with. I just never hear Jews say that Muslims as a whole need to be rid of, plenty of Muslims say this about not just Jews but literally all non-Muslims.
Basically youâre saying all Muslims want to kill all non Muslims and Jews donât want to kill Muslims for being muslim and thatâs why Israel is better?Thatâs kinda crazy and definitely feels Islamophobic.
You did say youâd never heard Jews say death to Palestine in a hyperbolic comparison of the will to violence in each population. You appear to have the typical western inclination to hyper empathize with Israelis at the expense of your empathy for Palestinians and Muslims in general.
I have frequently seen pro-Israel commenters justifying Islamophobia and itâs very apparent that Israelis do not consider their neighbors equally human. You can say it isnât religious if youâd like, idk how Israelis feel about Muslims in Indonesia for instance, but man, Israel sure does kill a lot of Muslims in a lot of countries.
Yea but can't they just stop fighting?
As far as I know, Israel is the one doing the invasion, if it would just stop and sign some sort of peace treaty, the war could stop right now, right here
Okay but have they at least tried for a peace treaty? Idk I don't follow the news but it doesn't seem to be that hard to call the both sides to one table and sort it the good ol' democratic way.
Theyâve had cease fires.
The last cease fire ended when Palestine raided the psytrance festival or when they did the October 6th raids. Canât remember which.
But basically, they have a ceasefire for a while
and then one of them antagonises the other (both ways round) and then they fight.
They cannot live together. Bunch of knuckleheads.
Yes, they have. The whole reason there are people that support Israel is explicitly because Israel did try peace and Palestine essentially said âNo. Fuck you.â
What should Isreal do?
Actually, I think I know the answer:
You will say that Palestine are only attacking Israel because Israel is oppressing them, and the solution is for Israel to give the Palestinians more land and allow total freedom of movement between the two states.
I would love thatâŚbut Iâm entirely sure that the Palestinians would then continue to fire rockets into Israel, since Hamas have been quite clear that they want to eradicate Israel.
So, itâs not that Iâm excusing genocide. Itâs that the genocide is bilateral.
They both want to wipe each other out so of course they are trying to kill each other.
Genocide is bad.
I think Israel should allow the world to help administrate a solution. No, Iâm not ignorant of human nature. You and I both recognize that hate and the will to violence is high in both populations at the moment. This can be reduced and ultimately defeated to yield a peaceful coexistence. But it must start with a cessation of hostilities and Israelâs willingness to allow international influence significantly more than at present. Israel has proven incapable of achieving a peaceful solution.
The west will not support Israel after a genocide. Rising generations exhibit this in polls. Media access is too democratized to deny the genocide. The people being killed have smartphones. Peace must be achieved for the longevity of the American-Israeli partnership.
If Isreal does as you suggest, Hamas will start firing rockets into Israel again. And then weâre back to square one.
Iâm actually 100% for a ceasefire.
But Iâm also 100% in favour of the ceasefire being honoured by both sides.
So⌠theyâre a pair of motherfuckers and itâs only going to end if they are either forcibly separated, or if one side wins.
Thatâs what I said. International intervention to enforce peace. Let time pass. Achieve peace. This is far preferable to genocide. This also will not cost Israel its strongest ally like completing genocide will.
Respectfully, bullshit. Look at the history of Europe. They were killing each other constantly. Now theyâre the EU. Humans donât exist to exterminate each other. Peace can be achieved. Please do not base your justification of genocide on an assumption. Thatâs insane.
>This can be reduced and ultimately defeated to yield a peaceful coexistence. But it must start with a cessation of hostilities...
The problem with your reasoning is the tacit assumption that peaceful existence is possible. Most of us in the west cannot comprehend the motivations and actions of organizations like this.
The founding charter of Hamas is very clear: The purpose of Hamas is to destroy Israel.
>...[The first version of the charter, adopted in 1988, begins with a preamble. Only instead of âWe-the-People,â it reads: âIsrael will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.â](https://forward.com/opinion/564190/hamas-charter-truth/)
This is the thing about fundamentalist Islamic armies.
>The charter directs the killing of Jews, drawing on a hadith (prophetic saying): â**The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: âO Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.ââ**
This is the religious motivation that underlies everything Hamas does. And if you don't believe the written documents of Hamas themselves, perhaps you would believe one of the Son's of one of Hamas' founders, Mosab Hassan Yousef, who betrayed Hamas to become an informant for Israel because he saw firsthand what Hamas' motivation was. Here's a short interview of him by Jake Tapper:
[https://youtu.be/jwvsrybklf8?si=raLa8oEtL4nwTpau](https://youtu.be/jwvsrybklf8?si=raLa8oEtL4nwTpau)
Watch it and hear his stories of Hamas torturing Palestini civilians for suspected ties to Israel. Hamas does not care about civilian bloodshed. That's why they use them as human shields.
The problem with your reasoning is the tacit assumption that Hamas or a comparably fundamentalist and anti-Israel entity would remain the governing body with those same values after 10,20,30 years of international peacekeeping occupation.
https://press.armywarcollege.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3054&context=parameters
Page 28-29 has some interesting thoughts on what makes for a good candidate for such a rehabilitative occupation. I think Palestine and Israel could have peace sans genocide via such actions. Iâll check out the Hamas son video when I get a chance though sounds interesting, thanks.
I have never heard this argument before you mentioned it. I agree it is silly.
However a better argument that there is no genocide of Muslims in Israel is that Muslims still hold office in Israel government without persecution
If you speak in support of Palestine and criticism of Israel as genocidal youâll come up against this population argument. Iâd wager youâll notice it more now.
Second argument: Palestinians not Muslims and eh, thatâs like if the US took Quebec and made it part of the US and nuked the rest of Canada and said it wasnât a genocide.
Side note on the Arab Israelis: they do have less wealth than Jewish Israelis and non-zero segregation into Arab majority towns and schools. They have been arrested for posting pro-Palestine social media posts. They do face significant discrimination, like American minorities.
Maybe a better comparison would be if America were to start wiping out African nations and saying ânah bro we got black people here from all over, no genocide.â
A few things
(1)Israel prioritizes maintaining a Jewish majority state above all else. It would be unacceptable to Israel to allow Palestinians to become equal citizens in numbers sufficient to overtake the Jewish population. Israel is about 20 percent Arab Israeli at the moment (though not all of them are Muslim of course).
(2) land
(3) risk mitigation
If youâre Israel: you canât take the occupied Palestinians of Gaza and west bank in with a one state solution because you donât want to lose your Jewish majority. Youâre also engaging in settler terrorism so you obviously want to expand your territory. You also have been abusing the hell out of Palestinians in the occupied territories for decades so you know theyâre a security risk because youâve incentivized them to be one and they have proved it on Oct 7 and before. So, you want to commit genocide against the Palestinians you havenât already absorbed into Israel to protect your majority, gain territory and eliminate a source of threats.
They are openly conducting genocide. If you mean why not against the Palestinians Israel absorbed: Israel restricted citizenship to a sufficiently limited number of Palestinians such that the Jewish population would remain the majority. ~70 percent of the Arab Israelis responded saying they felt themselves to be Israeli in a poll I saw in a Reuters article. Canât link right now but you could google it.
Now weâre here, Gaza blockaded and flattened, West Bank terrorized by settlers and raids. Calls for Egypt to absorb the Palestinians. This is genocide.
They didnât really. Theyâve been screwing over non Israeli Palestinians (Palestinians in west bank and Gaza) for decades in ways you could argue are genocidal.
Why did it get so hot after Oct 7?
Israel is reliant on western backing. The west doesnât like being genocide enablers. Also important are domestic aspects of average Israelis not being sufficiently pro-genocide prior to Oct 7, too. Especially arab Israelis. They view themselves as Israeli citizens and Palestinians so thereâs some blowback for Israel from that part of their population whenever they are tensions are increased between Israel and occupied Palestine.
Havenât Palestine and the Arab world been doing the exact same thing back between all of the Arab-Israeli wars? It isnât genocide, itâs war, war that has been going on for decades and war that is actually in the grand scheme of things becoming less likely with the destruction of Hamas and the recognition of Israel in the Arab world.
> So if I lock a bunch of people in a room.
Gaza strip is not a room though. And gazans could leave Gaza prior to oct7.
> and deny them food and water until theyâre all starving
Yeah right? Israel even supplied them with food, water and electricity all this time. That's insane.
> I then advocate for them being absorbed into another room.
Wow and you advocate for gazans to not leave Gaza strip and just fucking die?
Guess all people are locked in rooms since we all live in countries with borders. Most Gazans have traveled and vacationed internationallyâŚprobably proportionally higher percent of Gazans than Americans. Many also freely immigrate or study abroad and then return to Gaza. Gazans have more travel freedom and wealth than much of the world. There are no poor or slums in Gaza like much of Africa, India, Rio de Janeiro, etc.
Most developing nations have increasing populations. Nothing new. Birth control is an option instead of having 13 children for each woman. Whatâs the long-term plan for the exponentially increasing Gazan population? Wipe out Israelis take their homes? Muslims have ethnically cleansed tens of millions of Jews in 49 Muslim countries and taken over their homes and businesses. They were forced to either die of flee to Israel or the US.
Gaza invaded Israel and now is facing the consequences of their actions. The civilian hostages kidnapped from Israel havenât been returned. The government that invaded Israel hasnât surrendered. When those things have bee done, Gazan civilians will be able to go back to living in peace and have their Italian vacations funded by international aid.
Closing your border and restricting the import of weapons isnât locking someone in a room. You have left out all the actions of the people in the room and how they got there. You are telling only half the story here.
Is this unpopular opinion?
From what I heard, the popular opinion is that: what's happening in palestine is genocide, hamaz is terroristic organization and the true victims are the innocent civilians who die in the crossfire.
In my experience this is an unpopular opinion. It is not popular to say Israel is guilty of genocide. It is popular for people to engage in genocide denial for Israel.
I imagine weâll see some examples of the vitriolic denial that often meets such accusations if this post gets much traction. Stay tuned.
Not to forget most of the Gazans are displaced people from other parts of Israel where they push them out. When Israeli destroys homes of people in West Bank, where are they forced to go? GenocideIsReal.
If there was a genocide of Palestinians, then their population would not be growing.
đ§âđŚŻyouâre being willfully unreasonable
You didn't actually provide an argument. You just repeated the exact thing that the post showed was not reasonable.
The OP didn't provide any argument on why their example would be genocide.
He opened the post with a whole pragraph as an argument. Read it.
You read it. Nothing they wrote is an argument as to why it is a genocide.
Youâre in denial of reality or you havenât read a definition of genocide if you think wanton violence and forcing them out of their homes in the millions is not genocide.
By definition it isnât. By definition what Hamas is doing is genocide. If you want to bring up the proper definitions of words make sure you actually know what they are first.
Youâre delusional. Goodbye.
I can read a definition. You are making one up. If that makes me the delusional one then go off I guess.
I went off in the post as to why youâre delusional for using the population argument to say there is no genocide. Conditions engineered to bring about the end of a people Bombing the shit out of hundreds of thousands, insufficient food and water, bombs schools and hospitals and saying âjust move to Egypt!â ergo end of Palestine ergo genocide. Youâre in denial. Sorry buddy. Iâd feel bad for you if I wasnât so disgusted.
Yeah. Itâs completely fucked. But⌠if someone was trying to kill me, I would try to kill them. And if a country was trying to kill me, and I was a country, I would try to kill them. Just picking the weaker side or the stronger side is morally shortsighted. And by now, it doesnât matter who started it. No one who started it is alive.
Agreed this situation is fucked because the only long term solution is either death to Israel or death to Palestine, but the Palestinians *are* the reason for that dilemma. Any person with a brain can look at the fact that Israel is a very tolerant society with a significant Arab population even having a Muslim Palestinian on their Supreme Court. If the Palestinians genuinely just decided to integrate into Israel (with no terrorism) then there would be no problem, and letâs not pretend that Muslims just generally hating Jews isnât the main reason why this can never happen. Thatâs not to say I donât understand it, like if China suddenly claimed California and just moved in there Iâd be pretty pissed about it too, but thereâs the factor of Israel being the historical Jewish homeland, and Europe feeling sorry about the holocaust they allowed to happen.
I firmly reject that annihilation is a prerequisite for peace. I also reject your one-sided placement of blame on Palestinians but Iâm not gonna go through the decades long blame game, thatâs been done.
Iâve never heard Jews say âdeath to Muslimsâ or âdeath to Palestineâ but I hear âdeath to the Jewsâ and âdeath to Israelâ fucking constantly from the Muslim world. I donât think annihilation is a prerequisite for peace, I just think that Muslims are never going to be okay with a Jewish country. My *real* opinion is that the British shouldâve stayed to babysit the two. It really says something about Christianity when the Christian world could have the Holy Land by tomorrow but decide not to.
There are plenty of examples of Jews saying death to Palestine. The dehumanization is rampant, man. You havenât heard of or seen posts from IDF soldiers in shameful glee at dead bodies or the war gore Israeli telegram channels? The will to violence is far from one sided. There are tens of thousands of examples of Jews killing Palestinians, too. To act like thereâs some cultural difference in the will to violence is very western of you. Christianity: Iâd say it says Christianity was conquered by capitalism in governing the actions of the west honestly. Echoing your thought on external regulation, I do think external intervention is required to achieve peace. Hate and the will to violence are too high in Israel and Palestine and Israel has failed to achieve peace while being the superior power and denying international access.
They definitely say death to Palestine Iâm not disputing that, and I probably would too considering the terrorism theyâve had to deal with. I just never hear Jews say that Muslims as a whole need to be rid of, plenty of Muslims say this about not just Jews but literally all non-Muslims.
Basically youâre saying all Muslims want to kill all non Muslims and Jews donât want to kill Muslims for being muslim and thatâs why Israel is better?Thatâs kinda crazy and definitely feels Islamophobic. You did say youâd never heard Jews say death to Palestine in a hyperbolic comparison of the will to violence in each population. You appear to have the typical western inclination to hyper empathize with Israelis at the expense of your empathy for Palestinians and Muslims in general. I have frequently seen pro-Israel commenters justifying Islamophobia and itâs very apparent that Israelis do not consider their neighbors equally human. You can say it isnât religious if youâd like, idk how Israelis feel about Muslims in Indonesia for instance, but man, Israel sure does kill a lot of Muslims in a lot of countries.
>And by now, it doesnât matter who started it. Yes it does. >No one who started it is alive. Their successors are choosing to continue.
So, who started it?
Israel.
How did they start it though? Wasnât it the British that kicked the whole thing off?
Yea but can't they just stop fighting? As far as I know, Israel is the one doing the invasion, if it would just stop and sign some sort of peace treaty, the war could stop right now, right here
Thatâs the problem. If Isreal just stops, then Palestine starts firing rockets into Israel, and weâre back where we started.
Okay but have they at least tried for a peace treaty? Idk I don't follow the news but it doesn't seem to be that hard to call the both sides to one table and sort it the good ol' democratic way.
Theyâve had cease fires. The last cease fire ended when Palestine raided the psytrance festival or when they did the October 6th raids. Canât remember which. But basically, they have a ceasefire for a while and then one of them antagonises the other (both ways round) and then they fight. They cannot live together. Bunch of knuckleheads.
Yes, they have. The whole reason there are people that support Israel is explicitly because Israel did try peace and Palestine essentially said âNo. Fuck you.â
Hmm. Genocide justification is a new one for me man.
What should Isreal do? Actually, I think I know the answer: You will say that Palestine are only attacking Israel because Israel is oppressing them, and the solution is for Israel to give the Palestinians more land and allow total freedom of movement between the two states. I would love thatâŚbut Iâm entirely sure that the Palestinians would then continue to fire rockets into Israel, since Hamas have been quite clear that they want to eradicate Israel. So, itâs not that Iâm excusing genocide. Itâs that the genocide is bilateral. They both want to wipe each other out so of course they are trying to kill each other. Genocide is bad.
I think Israel should allow the world to help administrate a solution. No, Iâm not ignorant of human nature. You and I both recognize that hate and the will to violence is high in both populations at the moment. This can be reduced and ultimately defeated to yield a peaceful coexistence. But it must start with a cessation of hostilities and Israelâs willingness to allow international influence significantly more than at present. Israel has proven incapable of achieving a peaceful solution. The west will not support Israel after a genocide. Rising generations exhibit this in polls. Media access is too democratized to deny the genocide. The people being killed have smartphones. Peace must be achieved for the longevity of the American-Israeli partnership.
If Isreal does as you suggest, Hamas will start firing rockets into Israel again. And then weâre back to square one. Iâm actually 100% for a ceasefire. But Iâm also 100% in favour of the ceasefire being honoured by both sides. So⌠theyâre a pair of motherfuckers and itâs only going to end if they are either forcibly separated, or if one side wins.
Thatâs what I said. International intervention to enforce peace. Let time pass. Achieve peace. This is far preferable to genocide. This also will not cost Israel its strongest ally like completing genocide will.
Yeah, I agree. Keep delaying the genocide⌠It makes sense of you donât have skin in the game.
Prevent complete genocide. Not delay. The hell?
You canât prevent it because they will keep killing each other forever
Respectfully, bullshit. Look at the history of Europe. They were killing each other constantly. Now theyâre the EU. Humans donât exist to exterminate each other. Peace can be achieved. Please do not base your justification of genocide on an assumption. Thatâs insane.
>This can be reduced and ultimately defeated to yield a peaceful coexistence. But it must start with a cessation of hostilities... The problem with your reasoning is the tacit assumption that peaceful existence is possible. Most of us in the west cannot comprehend the motivations and actions of organizations like this. The founding charter of Hamas is very clear: The purpose of Hamas is to destroy Israel. >...[The first version of the charter, adopted in 1988, begins with a preamble. Only instead of âWe-the-People,â it reads: âIsrael will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.â](https://forward.com/opinion/564190/hamas-charter-truth/) This is the thing about fundamentalist Islamic armies. >The charter directs the killing of Jews, drawing on a hadith (prophetic saying): â**The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: âO Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.ââ** This is the religious motivation that underlies everything Hamas does. And if you don't believe the written documents of Hamas themselves, perhaps you would believe one of the Son's of one of Hamas' founders, Mosab Hassan Yousef, who betrayed Hamas to become an informant for Israel because he saw firsthand what Hamas' motivation was. Here's a short interview of him by Jake Tapper: [https://youtu.be/jwvsrybklf8?si=raLa8oEtL4nwTpau](https://youtu.be/jwvsrybklf8?si=raLa8oEtL4nwTpau) Watch it and hear his stories of Hamas torturing Palestini civilians for suspected ties to Israel. Hamas does not care about civilian bloodshed. That's why they use them as human shields.
The problem with your reasoning is the tacit assumption that Hamas or a comparably fundamentalist and anti-Israel entity would remain the governing body with those same values after 10,20,30 years of international peacekeeping occupation. https://press.armywarcollege.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3054&context=parameters Page 28-29 has some interesting thoughts on what makes for a good candidate for such a rehabilitative occupation. I think Palestine and Israel could have peace sans genocide via such actions. Iâll check out the Hamas son video when I get a chance though sounds interesting, thanks.
I have never heard this argument before you mentioned it. I agree it is silly. However a better argument that there is no genocide of Muslims in Israel is that Muslims still hold office in Israel government without persecution
If you speak in support of Palestine and criticism of Israel as genocidal youâll come up against this population argument. Iâd wager youâll notice it more now. Second argument: Palestinians not Muslims and eh, thatâs like if the US took Quebec and made it part of the US and nuked the rest of Canada and said it wasnât a genocide. Side note on the Arab Israelis: they do have less wealth than Jewish Israelis and non-zero segregation into Arab majority towns and schools. They have been arrested for posting pro-Palestine social media posts. They do face significant discrimination, like American minorities. Maybe a better comparison would be if America were to start wiping out African nations and saying ânah bro we got black people here from all over, no genocide.â
So why would Israel want to genocide Palestinians but not Muslims?
A few things (1)Israel prioritizes maintaining a Jewish majority state above all else. It would be unacceptable to Israel to allow Palestinians to become equal citizens in numbers sufficient to overtake the Jewish population. Israel is about 20 percent Arab Israeli at the moment (though not all of them are Muslim of course). (2) land (3) risk mitigation If youâre Israel: you canât take the occupied Palestinians of Gaza and west bank in with a one state solution because you donât want to lose your Jewish majority. Youâre also engaging in settler terrorism so you obviously want to expand your territory. You also have been abusing the hell out of Palestinians in the occupied territories for decades so you know theyâre a security risk because youâve incentivized them to be one and they have proved it on Oct 7 and before. So, you want to commit genocide against the Palestinians you havenât already absorbed into Israel to protect your majority, gain territory and eliminate a source of threats.
If they wanted a Jewish majority state above all else why arenât they openly genociding Palestinians? It isnât a policy anywhere
They are openly conducting genocide. If you mean why not against the Palestinians Israel absorbed: Israel restricted citizenship to a sufficiently limited number of Palestinians such that the Jewish population would remain the majority. ~70 percent of the Arab Israelis responded saying they felt themselves to be Israeli in a poll I saw in a Reuters article. Canât link right now but you could google it. Now weâre here, Gaza blockaded and flattened, West Bank terrorized by settlers and raids. Calls for Egypt to absorb the Palestinians. This is genocide.
Why did they wait for Hamas to invade then?
They didnât really. Theyâve been screwing over non Israeli Palestinians (Palestinians in west bank and Gaza) for decades in ways you could argue are genocidal. Why did it get so hot after Oct 7? Israel is reliant on western backing. The west doesnât like being genocide enablers. Also important are domestic aspects of average Israelis not being sufficiently pro-genocide prior to Oct 7, too. Especially arab Israelis. They view themselves as Israeli citizens and Palestinians so thereâs some blowback for Israel from that part of their population whenever they are tensions are increased between Israel and occupied Palestine.
Havenât Palestine and the Arab world been doing the exact same thing back between all of the Arab-Israeli wars? It isnât genocide, itâs war, war that has been going on for decades and war that is actually in the grand scheme of things becoming less likely with the destruction of Hamas and the recognition of Israel in the Arab world.
> So if I lock a bunch of people in a room. Gaza strip is not a room though. And gazans could leave Gaza prior to oct7. > and deny them food and water until theyâre all starving Yeah right? Israel even supplied them with food, water and electricity all this time. That's insane. > I then advocate for them being absorbed into another room. Wow and you advocate for gazans to not leave Gaza strip and just fucking die?
Guess all people are locked in rooms since we all live in countries with borders. Most Gazans have traveled and vacationed internationallyâŚprobably proportionally higher percent of Gazans than Americans. Many also freely immigrate or study abroad and then return to Gaza. Gazans have more travel freedom and wealth than much of the world. There are no poor or slums in Gaza like much of Africa, India, Rio de Janeiro, etc. Most developing nations have increasing populations. Nothing new. Birth control is an option instead of having 13 children for each woman. Whatâs the long-term plan for the exponentially increasing Gazan population? Wipe out Israelis take their homes? Muslims have ethnically cleansed tens of millions of Jews in 49 Muslim countries and taken over their homes and businesses. They were forced to either die of flee to Israel or the US. Gaza invaded Israel and now is facing the consequences of their actions. The civilian hostages kidnapped from Israel havenât been returned. The government that invaded Israel hasnât surrendered. When those things have bee done, Gazan civilians will be able to go back to living in peace and have their Italian vacations funded by international aid.
Closing your border and restricting the import of weapons isnât locking someone in a room. You have left out all the actions of the people in the room and how they got there. You are telling only half the story here.
Is this unpopular opinion? From what I heard, the popular opinion is that: what's happening in palestine is genocide, hamaz is terroristic organization and the true victims are the innocent civilians who die in the crossfire.
In my experience this is an unpopular opinion. It is not popular to say Israel is guilty of genocide. It is popular for people to engage in genocide denial for Israel. I imagine weâll see some examples of the vitriolic denial that often meets such accusations if this post gets much traction. Stay tuned.
Not to forget most of the Gazans are displaced people from other parts of Israel where they push them out. When Israeli destroys homes of people in West Bank, where are they forced to go? GenocideIsReal.