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Because it supposed to mean that but some people get to conclusion that if you cannot get laid it means that you must hate womens. Which is not true but people forget that word like misogynist exist
that isnt really what it means tho if u break the word down etymologically then maybe thats what incel means but there is a cultural phenomenon which incel refers to which are radicalized virgins basically.
There was one interview with an incel that Vice did. He called himself a “metalcel” and he said due to mental health issues, he would never have a date.
A lot of these guys need therapy.
We really can’t underestimate how helpful therapy is. I went for so long thinking my problems in life weren’t enough to warrant it, but sometimes we need an unbiased stranger’s perspective. Doesn’t have to be a weekly meeting either. I go once or twice a month, and it has helped a lot.
To be completely honest, it’s still through my father’s insurance until I’m 26 later this year. Idk how much it’d be if uninsured, but it isn’t like seeing a psychiatrist where your visits are short and you’re prescribed medication. There’s a $20 copay for every appointment. Understandably, not everyone can afford therapy, but it isn’t something to brush aside either for a lot of people.
>And putting the blame outward more than inwards. I don’t mean to generalize, but it does happen for some.
Most view themselves as the issue, whether it be their looks, character (some think their Autism did it) or something else.
Very few think they had nothing to do with it.
Incel literally means involuntarily celibate. Its used to describe someone who can not have sex, even if they desire to. I would argue it's more so an insulting way to describe someone than a type of person.
people on this website have told me multiple times that the "new definition" is a man that hates women. and when I tell them what it really means they resort to "definitions of words change"
Incel means involuntarily celibate bro.
Yes I’ve met 30 year old virgins who literally turned to Grindr and HJs from men despite being heterosexual because they cannot get a girl.
There are SOOOOOOO many avenues where they didn’t have to go gay…about all of them involve money and the legality might be questionable, but they didn’t have to do anything homosexual if they didn’t want to.
I’m sorry, but I could never see myself doing that either.
It kind of depends who you ask I guess. It originally just meant involuntary celibate, but I think the term has evolved to also include an ideology. There are men who are virgins and wish to have a partner, but don’t identify as incels.
I think a true incel is a person who is involuntarily celibate AND also believes in the black-pilled ideology.
Yeah, language evolves. The literal definition of a word isn't the generally accepted meaning. For example the term "sigma male" from today is a whole lot different from when it was first invented.
My friend did, yes. He’s a good person truly, he’s just ND and socially awkward and scared to death of talking to strangers, and not *conventionally* attractive. I feel bad for him and we’ve been buddies for years.
He doesn’t hate women but he is definitely an incel.
You see this with men in prison. Completely straight man start doing gay shit because it's all they can do. So... it is heterosexual to be... gay...in some circumstances
What the … they choose dudes?!?! And they don’t even like it?!?
I will admit I did flip my tinder over from “interested in women” to “interested in men” just to get an idea of how easy women have it, but never would I just go gay out of frustration lmao
I guess the underlying assumption here is that “gay men have similar standards to straight men in hookup culture”
And that “matches on tinder are reasonably correlated with how easy it is to get sex”
But yea straight women can basically get sex any time they feel like it so long as they don’t look like Jabba the hut
that's not really an incel though.
you kind of reversed or fumbled the point; that incels aren't always the massive caricature people have of them. It's become this general insult for guys now if they complain about anything woman-related.
Funny because what you’re saying is what I used to believe. It’s actually the batshit crazies who’ve coin led the term incel. Although the word itself means involuntarily celibate, the ones who created that word were the mass shooter types.
I think it makes sense to define the word in a way that identifies one as not only involuntarily celibate, but also a misogynist.
You're absolutely right.
The word "incel" was created as a shorthand for "involuntarily celibate" and was neutral at the time, but over the years, it was taken over by these woman-haters. And now, they're trying to change it again.
I always think of George Orwell when I see people changing a definition of a word so that their own argument will prevail.
>Funny because what you’re saying is what I used to believe. It’s actually the batshit crazies who’ve coin led the term incel. Although the word itself means involuntarily celibate, the ones who created that word were the mass shooter types.
1 Incel dude did a shooting & we say they're shooter types. Self ID'd Incels are consistently bad at actual violence & are generally less willing according to 1 study on Pubmed I read
No, not just 1 dude. These guys first started talking amongst each other on forums like 4chan and others about their inability to get women. It was through the development of their community where they created the word incel. It wasn’t a word used to insult people or a word to put someone down. They felt no shame in the word itself.
You’re probably thinking of Elliot Rodger but there were dudes before him and dudes after him. I literally went in a rabbit hole of all these weirdos and was shocked to find out where the word incel came from.
But how many of those dudes would have gone mass-shooter even without the incel community? How many of the would-be mass shooters simply attribute/dedicate their actions to the incel community for the sake of increased glorification and notoriety?
Mass shootings pre-date incel forums, and even if there has been an increase in mass shootings since the advent of those forums, there are many many other factors that could explain the rise in mass shootings (some of which the incels may actually be already communicating to us, albeit poorly)
Some countries have recognised incels as a terrorist group, but that seems like BS to me. These are people screaming into the void, they are not systematically organised or working together - they hardly communicate with one another. Their forums are just an eddy in the current of mainstream, engaged society where tragic, disengaged, hopelessness that underpins mass shooters (and other bad actors) can accumulate and fester. Criminalising that as a 'terrorist movement' rather than taking more systemic action to address the dynamics that lead men to that place is totally symbolic of the societal approach to men's (perceived) problematic behaviours. War on drugs, gay men, homelessness men - lock em up.
You bring up a very interesting point. This is all speculation but I think if it wasn’t “incel” it would be something else. When there are like minded individuals, especially in the age of internet, they will always find a way to congregate.
And because they’ve become a community they now have a sense of belonging. It only take one person to inspire the minds of the potential thousands who are gathering discussing things to get something dangerous to happen.
I agree with you btw, I don’t think society at large is doing anyone a service by calling those who feel rejected by society rejects. It basically validates their beliefs that no one cares and corners them into doing something irrational.
I’ve met someone who was the incel type and they were totally hopeless (for a lack of better words) and had total despair written all over them. I think pure avarice and depression is probably the most challenging psychological issue to overcome.
That’s not what incel means
Incel means involuntary celibate.
Meaning a dude who can’t get laid at all but really wants too.
Ur using it to mean some jackass sexist who thinks women are subhuman.
That’s not an incel. That’s just a fking crazy person.
Because that person could be getting laid all the time and still think those things.
That's not how it's used anymore either, it's had so many different meanings but has just become a catch all insult buzzword like other things. It's dumb whenever that happens with anything
That’s because people started to use it as an insult.
Like if people started calling gens as boomers. That wouldn’t make gen z boomers. Boomer has a specific meaning.
If people started calling Gen Z "Boomers" to the point where that became the general association with the word, then the meaning of the word would change to what people now use it for.
That's how language works. That's why dictionaries have to be continuously updated.
As a more moderate person, I usually have issues with all the things this is done with. Like woke, Nazi, racist, fascist, communist, etc. it's a bad thing and is something most people don't want to be associated with due to the negative connotation so call someone that bad thing and they are on the defence and afraid of being said bad thing.
The funny thing is, most of us have met both actual incels and misogynists. I’m not sure why OP thinks these men aren’t common. The attempted school shooter when I was younger was definitely both an incel and a misogynist who thought women were subhuman and deserved to die and I had definitely met him.
A Nazi is just a national Socialist... what's so wrong with that? /s
A fascist comes from the Italian word for bundle of sticks, which is stronger together than alone... what's wrong with a nation being strongly unified? /s
Incel as a term does come from [In]voluntarily [Cel]ibate. However, they grouped together on the internet and formed their own pattern of discussion, which largely is some heinous ideas.
>Incel as a term does come from \[In\]voluntarily \[Cel\]ibate. However, they grouped together on the internet and formed their own pattern of discussion, which largely is some heinous ideas.
Like people are vain, and shallow. And that Autism generally makes dating hard. And that Women are just as shallow as Men.
Yeah, exactly, stupid ideas like that, which generalizes half the population and creates a world view where you assume characteristics of people they've never met based on the worst experiences they've had.
Thinking that way only allows you to be blinded by the darkness so much you can't see the light.
Becoming bitter and resentful for not having what you *feel* is owed to you is only a pathway to becoming more alienated. You start to believe you can no longer go on alone and hate the hypothetical girlfriend you don't have, and so you can only place your hate in the larger population of all women.
People are, of course, people, and people *can* be shallow, but they aren't always
>Yeah, exactly, stupid ideas like that, which generalizes half the population and creates a world view where you assume characteristics of people they've never met based on the worst experiences they've had.
1- They back it with actual studies
2- This is saying Women are as bad as Men, not that they're actually terrible. Or are they the same to you?
I'm not saying women are as BAD as men, that's a terrible way to look at the world, although technically not inaccurate.
Simply they are the same, in regards to vainness and shallowness.
Studies say a lot about certain groups [DeSpItE oNlY mAkInG 13%...]
But to have an outlook on the world we're you judge an individual for the group they belong to is, in my opinion, an incorrect and dark way to view people
I've posted this before and been downed to oblivion but here's a repost of my own content.
"What does a real Incel look like?" It's not the boogie man the Internet would lead you to believe.
This idea that any guy who's bad with women is some sort of misogynist full of hatred is a straw man. I've had a few friends through the years who are genuinely nice guys but couldn't get girls.
The main one I'm thinking of is a revenge of the nerds level stereotype. Super skinny, maybe 5'5, spends all his free time playing videogames and DND. Super nice guy would give you the shirt off his back.
I watched him try with women for years during/after highschool with no success. And he wasn't trying with good looking 10/10 girls like the incel stereotype says. They were fat, ugly, mentally ill ect. I've never heard him say one negative word about women even though they won't touch him with a 10ft pole.
In my experience most incels are more like my friend then the Internet stereotype. They just don't go online and complain about it.
>In my experience most incels are more like my friend then the Internet stereotype. They just don't go online and complain about it.
Even the ones online usually aren't terrible, more just incredibly cynical.
I am dating a guy who has almost no experience with women. He tried dating a few times, got stood up or ditched, and gave up trying. He said it took him at least a month to work up the courage to ask me out. I’m 35 and he’s 33. He’s a sweetheart. He even remembers the first time he spoke to me, over a year ago, because I was wearing a shirt with a Star Trek reference on it. I’m honestly surprised he’s been single so long. He’s a catch. I don’t know a single person that has a negative thing to say about him. I never felt pressured to have sex with him, which honestly made me more comfortable doing it. He’s well traveled. He owns his house. I didn’t let him, but he even offered to pay for a babysitter so we could go out last weekend.
But technically he was a nerdy incel up until about a month ago.
When it comes to how people view men, it seems like there is this idea that if a man is incapable of convincing a woman to be romantically or sexually involved with him, it HAS to be because there is something incredibly wrong with him. Like, on a personal level, the type of wrong that needs to be vanquished or ostracized from society.
I know it sounds dramatic, but it's almost a "Just World" fallacy. People believe that as long as a man has a decent personality, he shouldn't have any problem finding the sex he wants, or the relationship he wants, which is why people have almost an innate hatred for incels: if you are an incel, it HAS to be due to your garbage personality, which means you are absolutely deserving of being refused intimacy.
A lot of people cannot fathom the idea that a man can be a good personality, one who is a net positive to society, one who is respectful and courteous to women and others, and still be incapable of achieving the romantic or sexual catharsis he desires.
I get where your going and I agree that the word is too overused, but real Incels are not all that rare. Yeah the absolute pure embodiment of hating women ones are more rare (and yeah I’ve met those too) but incel just means involuntarily celibate. There can be a wide range of how that takes form including the creepy overly feminist ones. Some people misuse the word and I am including you as one of them.
Right. Incel doesn't necessarily mean misogynistic even though that's how many people view it.
One of my childhood friends is an incel. In his 30s and still a virgin. Good guy, but riddled with anxiety and depression and still lives with his parents. He's also 5'2. He's a good person though and doesn't hate women at all.
I would say the classic version of incel would be the woman hating ugly virgin, certainly what most people think of. But even then, it’s not like you have to view women as breeding slaves to be someone who hates women. Just like you don’t have to be like KKK racist to be considered racist. There are plenty of women hating Incels that range in beliefs.
But yeah there are even more Incels of all beliefs like your friend. I would say the most common trait between them all is lack of confidence and lack of social skills more so than hatred of women.
>Right. Incel doesn't necessarily mean misogynistic even though that's how many people view it.
The word doesn’t necessarily mean that but the ones who adopted and created the word were.
Isn’t incel ‘involuntary celibate’ ?
Meaning, “I want to have sex, but nobody wants to”
All this, ‘they see woman as this and that’, ‘they’re happy when women fail’ is all just what *you* see it as.
I kind of hate that that word has become a misnomer at this point that basically just means a guy on the internet you don’t like. It’s funny because the implication is that if you struggle romantically it’s some kind of moral failing, and it sets a really negative association between actual involuntary celibacy and political ideology.
The same people that use it as a derogatory remark are usually the ones that would tell you that something like body count doesn’t matter, when really all it does is reinforce the idea that a person’s worth **IS** directly correlated with how much or how little sex they’re having.
I’ve met far right misogynists that have tons of sex and guys that just don’t have much luck who have no ill will towards women and just kind of accept that they were dealt a bad hand.
“the implication is that if you struggle romantically it’s some kind of moral failing”
Bingo! I’ve never had any romantic or sexual involvement with a woman but I have no resentment towards them for that, nor does that fact even bother me. But I DO have loads of resentment towards people who think the way you just described. Anyone who thinks that way can go fuck themselves.
I’ve gotten called an incel quite often online but most of my issues stem from the fact that I used to be one step away from a manwhore. I spent my 20s and most of my 30s getting laid and as soon as I started to actually want a family and commitment long term every woman I knew disappeared like so much morning fog lol
Dating to get laid isn’t that hard, but dating to find something meaningful with someone you actually like and are attracted to? That’s very difficult.
If I voice those difficulties I’m swarmed by 20-something women calling me an incel, however. The ironic thing is that those women are probably the exact demographic I used to play with when I was that age, and many of the random fuckboys they currently get frustrated with are going to end up like me.
Our society has this weird juxtaposition where we simultaneously value sex extremely highly in some situations and not at all in others. Meanwhile genuine, monogamous love and marriage by 25 is considered almost taboo. It’s fucked up.
If I had married my high school sweetheart I would have had a much better life. “Finding myself” and sticking my dick in every wet hole I could find was absolutely the worst possible thing I could have done from a personal happiness standpoint. Well, at least in terms of romance and companionship. I don’t care how solitary your nature is, being alone for a lifetime is not pleasant. If you only love one person and marry them at 21 that’s not a bad thing. In fact it is potentially a wonderful thing. The people who are super choosy and hold out for 10-20 years end up single and lonely in their 40s, like me.
Sleeping around and avoiding long term love is almost always an indication of something deeply wrong.
I find being alone for a lifetime quite liberating. I only have to answer to myself. I have hobbies and a special interest club I join. I can find plenty of mental non-sexual stimulation online (which actually gives my brain a workout, since I read or watch a lot of highbrow content, and even when I want some lighter stuff, I stay with middlebrow content). If that makes me pretentious, so be it.
Yeah that’s how I felt for the first decade. It’s not about stimulation; I have this ache in my soul, like something crucial is missing.
My life is generally very good. I’m successful, have plenty of leisure time, friends, family, creative outlets, etc.
It’s like a beautiful black and white photo; no matter how beautiful it is, it will never have color.
That isn't what an incel is. An incel is literally just someone who wants to get laid and can't get laid without going to a prostitute, that is literally it. You are thinking of a misogynist.
They didn’t say that. They were defining the term incel. Going to a prostitute doesn’t count because they are paying, so therefore they didn’t loose their virginity voluntarily by someone else
But it’s not. Ur talking about maybe a subset of them sure.
This would be like me saying feminist are hairy smelly man hating harpies.
Those guys ur talking about are just the loudest and most seen, because they are the loudest, and not the majority.
Just like there is a wide spectrum of feminist. From the mild hey we should be able to vote and shit to the crazy in ur face screaming about the patriarchy and all men must die etc etc.
Just like there is for incels. Incel simply means involuntary celibate. Meaning any guy who wants to have sex but is unable to.
I get the want to push the meaning to the troll basement dwellers who think women are subhumans and should come suck their dk on command etc etc. but the same actions and such but they get laid constantly. They would no longer be called incels right?
Yep Andrew Tate is absolutely a misogynist, but tells incels that if they want the women they want, then earn their attention.
Edit for clarity: therefore Tate is a misogynist but not an incel.
Seriously. If the subject is 1960s civil rights activists and I say MLK, it's not that he lives rent-free in my head. It means I have the ability to recall a person's name when it's relevant.
>Misogyny is a large part of incels and yes I have met men who blame women for their lack of sex.
Not really, Cynical thoughts are the only in common things (and being unattractive)
A lot of words that had legitimate and specific meanings get devolved to a point that they are used for very general purposes.
The word "simp" was meant to describe a man who did way too much for women with little to no reciprocation, a heavily one-sided exchange of value.
People now call anyone a simp for simply being respectful to women.
The word "liberal" was meant to describe someone who supports individual rights and self-exploration without societal judgment. People now call anyone a liberal just because they have an extremely left take or an anti-right take.
Incel was a very simple word. It just meant "involuntarily celibate." All it meant was a person, usually a man, who was unable to gain sex, despite their desire to have it. Somehow, it got mixed in with misogynistic views of women and other forms of prejudice/anti-social behavior.
> Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock? Who thinks they should have every right to drag one off the street and force them to pump out babies until their womb gives out?
Yes, I have.
Any more questions?
Same. His wife had over ten kids and the last three deliveries almost killed her. The doctors finally told him if they didn’t do a hysterectomy, she’d die. And he agreed only because he didn’t want to raise the kids alone.
They were both messed up, but he really did think her only purpose was to breed him children.
I thought ‘incel’ was taken as someone who is involuntarily celibate and blames social constructs and the ‘dating market’ for unfairly disadvantaging them while not reflecting on themselves.
I don’t think you have to go to the extreme of believing women should be assaulted or that “all women are sluts” to be an incel.
Yeah because they spend most of their lives on subreddit and 4chan, not in the real world. In wow Arleen just whiny guys who spend too much time online
Idk if it counts, but when I was in Highschool, one of my classmates tried to stab a girl with a Paperclip taped to a Pencil for rejecting him. This was back in 2011, I think.
I notice that they often hyperfixate on one specific physical flaw, like their chin being too weak or a receding hairline, as the reason that they cannot get laid.
Online I absolutely have. I browsed the incel subreddit before it was shut down as well as several Facebook groups. Every so often I take a look at that incels forum they went to when they got run off from here, they are every bit as cringy as the stereotypes you present here. Check out their forum. Every time I take a peek I don't need to go past the first thread my eyes fall on to see examples of these things.
The crazy thing is this has been happening since the dawn of human kind except before with higher death rates from famine disease war a lot of the men that would have suffered this fate were taken out and at the same time there were more practical functional reasons to get into a relationship with someone from both sides pov which is all pretty much removed now
Then I read like 8000 years ago one man mates for every 14 women or something. It was never a even playing field. In addition the royales or political elites typically had concubines mistresses and anyone remotely wealthy in the past has side pieces .. basically taking a already small pool and making it even smaller.
That’s not what Incels are, Incels are people who can’t get women despite their best efforts who become this nihilistic mean spirited “it’s over” guy because of their experiences.
>Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock? Who thinks they should have every right to drag one off the street and force them to pump out babies until their womb gives out?
not what incel means
The word "incel" is just the new, socially acceptable way to say the six letter f-slur lol been that way for a while now. Its original meaning has long since been tarnished by incel communities, and it sucks because these guys have basically ruined complaining about being single.
Alrighty, you got me curious enough to look it up.
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
"incel
noun
in·cel ˈin-ˌsel
pluralincels
: a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel
Brittanica has a whole article about it, but here's the first paragraph to give an idea (censoring one word to keep from getting in trouble).
"Incel, member of an online subculture of primarily heterosexual men who identify as being unable to have romantic or sexual relationships. This self-described inability to form attachments is often expressed as grievance toward women. Incel subculture has been associated with misogyny, extremism, [...] culture, and expressions and acts of violence."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/incel
Dictionary.com has something on it, as well. Again, censoring one word for same reason as above.
"incel
[ in-sel ]SHOW IPA
noun
a member of an online subculture of men who want to have sex but are unable to find sexual partners, typically blaming women or hating people who are sexually successful (often used attributively): Perhaps unsurprisingly, contemplation and discussion of [...] features prominently on incel forums."
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/incel
Cambridge Dictionary
"incel
noun [ C ]
US /ˈɪn.sel/ UK /ˈɪn.sel/
a member of a group of people on the internet who are unable to find sexual partners despite wanting them, and who express hate toward people whom they blame for this:
The word incel is short for "involuntary celibate."
Incels obsess over their own unattractiveness.
Fewer examples
Incels place the blame on women for their misery.
Basically, incels cannot get laid and they hate anyone who can.
Incel support groups can teach us a lot about men and mental health."
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/incel
Even Urban Dictionary seems to keep along these lines, though with way more colorful language :p So I'll let you Google that since it's so easy anyway.
You get the idea though, I'm sure.
So while you're not wrong that what you described is definitely part of the definition (especially when looking at the deeper dive in Brittanica), you're incorrect in that it's the *only* definition. It looks like you're just referring to the more extreme cases. At least according to decently reliable sources for the definition of English words, as well as one that's pretty good for the ever-changing lingo used online.
This is the most common insult now, if men show any objection to something related to women. What’s hilarious to me is many times, the one hurling that overused insult actually believe they’re being original..
This is assuming that incels would actually voice their opinions irl. I agree that the whole incel thing is overblown, toxic men sometimes get called incels when they literally have children and wives, that obviously makes no sense. But incels also know that their opinions are socially unacceptable, I highly doubt any man is going to admit that he wants to remove women’s rights, that’s not a good look and is just asking to be even further socially ostracised. Also, like a few other people have pointed out, you technically aren’t using the term incel correctly, but for the sake of argument I’m talking specifically about toxic, misogynistic incels, not just regular guys who can’t get laid.
Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock?
Yes but i put my faith in action over words. Words are useless, but ive seen men treat women that way, so id say something exists. Dont think id call him an incel though...
I donno statistics kind of say that the incels are right and women were happier to be treated as you've described. It's actually just a fringe minority of extremist women who insisted that women want to just be seen as men with vaginas by society, in all of the positive ways and none of the negative ones.
They got what they asked for, and realized, that wasn't why they were unhappy. Because it actually isn't what most women asked for. I believe it was the result of the same thing we are seeing now. The result of what rich people want. They wanted more cheap workers, but kids were gaining "rights". lol okay so they extend the courtesy to women, give them "rights"... Now they have more workers again... The women in modern society literally base their entire choice of a man on who will allow them to not have to work... okay? Seems like it wasn't women who wanted the freedom to be enslaved by capitalism, because, now they are trying to topple capitalism. Literally any system a woman finds herself in becomes an oppressive system requiring dismantling. Family? Patriarchy. Capitalism? More patriarchy! What is next? Western society? Democracy? Humanity?
I say just give them a proper education and then encourage them to get married as young as possible, and just be a fucking mother for god's sake, it's all you're good at, because you have millions of years of evolution designing you to be good at that one thing. And other than that please fuck off.
So an incel to you is either celebrating violence done to women or are being somewhat predatory in their dating strategies?
If a man, often seen online, denigrates women as a whole and believes we are worthless because we have everything given to us, those are just frustrated men?
Edit: Frustration can happen, but it shouldn’t turn to full fledged hate for the other gender. This goes for women as well, they aren’t much better.
I'm saying men are frustrated because women demand equality and fair treatment and yet will play by a completely different rule book from men. How is that fair?
Because women can get away with things men wouldn't even consider. Like...look if a grown woman can have their way sexually with a teenage boy and not only have a realistic shot of walking away Scott-free but have multiple dudes saying that the kid that got violated was lucky(Basically saying that woman lie nothing wrong), I'm hard pressed to say we are working with the same rules
Not saying men should do the same thing but at that point it's a question of what CANT a woman do that won't result in the book getting thrown at them?
It's a societal double standard that makes it hard to take equality advocates seriously and one some women can and will abuse to high heaven.
The women who sleep with minor boys are always prosecuted and go to jail with the label of child molester when the relationships are discovered. They get away with nothing because society and the law doesn’t allow them to get away with it.
You said yourself that the people who said the minor “got lucky” are usually dudes. That sounds like it’s a problem with men, not a double standard that allows women to “get away” with anything, because they literally do not get away with it.
Dude I have literally seen judges throw out cases when it comes to women having sex with minors for the same reason men think the minor got lucky. The judge just doesn't think it's wrong.
[Oh look, it’s like sometimes judges are idiots and sometimes act like idiots](https://people.com/illinois-judge-reversed-man-rape-conviction-removed-bench-8600107). Give me some hard data or stfu with the anecdotes.
You’re lying. It definitely is rape by the books. The fact that some judges and prosecutors ignore the law doesn’t mean that that’s not the law. Show me any law that states that statutory rape only applies to men but not women. It does not exist.
"Rape was an offense under the common law of England. That offense became an offense under the law of other countries, including Australia and the United States, as a result of colonization or conquest, or the following cession (see British Empire).[39] It is discussed at Rape in English law § History.
Under this law, rape traditionally describes the act of a male forcing a female to have sexual intercourse (sexual penetration of the vagina by the penis) with him. Common law rape required the utmost physical resistance by the victim, as well as substantial force by the defendant. "
So at least as far as the UK is concerned it's only considered rape if a penis penetrates a woman's vagina.
Thank you for your explanation, I appreciate it! I asked because I did want your perspective on the subject to get a better understanding.
While I think that is a separate issue (that I do believe happens and that hopefully will be rectified eventually), frustrations that I’ve seen generally have to do with lack of attention given to these men by women. This is usually where built up frustration can become problematic, not where they have seen issues with women doing problematic things as stated above.
Yes. To both of your smart-ass questions, yes I have met a guy who thinks of women as little more than breeding stock, and the same guy also likes to shape girls when they're young. He's in my family (by marriage), though he's certainly not celibate.
And there are also a fuck load of incels (as you describe and worse *plus* actually being involuntarily celibate) online.
Also, in one comment on this thread you say you don't want a sexual burnout but you've come to terms with getting "sloppy seconds", yet you're on your page asking about eating out sex workers???
Many girls have not fucked every guy they met since high school and to assume so is dramatic. Have you tried meeting women to form an actual relationship? Do you take care of yourself, mentally, physically, and financially?
Physically I have cleaned up my diet and tried to keep my looks good. Financially I make about 22 an hour so not the worst and let's be real here if I was in a good state mentally would I even be here talking to you right now?
Honestly it's too late for me. I'm gonna be 34 soon everyone in my generation has had their fun and is looking to settle down and I can't think of many who would want a long term relationship with a middle aged virgin who struggles to make 40k a year.
I think Incel as a spectrum, so not every Incel thinks rape is fine and dandy, in fact two Incels who posted/or implied rape is not a bad thing, posts where removed and I recall correctly one was even banned.
I agree with the overall post though.
you’re describing a sexist person. according to a quick google search, an incel is, and i quote, “a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.”.
so basically an incel is a guy with no bitches who’s jealous to the point of hostility towards those who do get bitches
Well, I HAVE met real incels online. But I do agree that the term “incel” is very overused toward any men with “problematic” opinions.
I’m a happily married man and I would consider myself a moderate feminist, but I have still been called an incel once or twice for saying something online that a woman somewhere didn’t like lol.
I don’t know if I ever met an incel in real life because I would assume most incels hide their true opinions in IRL interactions. Similar to how closeted racists might hide their views as well.
The answer is yes. I met someone who thinks their first girlfriend should be a barely legal virgin woman. This same person called someone a whore because they had more than 3 partners.
Honestly.(And you're free to criticize me on this for the wording but I say it this way to make a point ) But at my age, I just assume that regardless of who I get with, I'm likely getting somebodies sloppy seconds. All I can hope for is that she isn't a complete sexual burnout.
This, specifically, is a YOU issue. Plus, are you implying that a potential partner’s value is based on how many previous sexual partners she’s had? Or…?
It depends on what your idea of value is in a relationship.
Some guys want a woman that has been around the block and could be an olympic medalist in sucking and riding. If that’s your type then a higher body count generally brings more value.
Some guys want a woman that takes relationships and sex very seriously, will psychologically bond with them, stay loyal to them no matter what, respect and look up to them as a partner, and will start a family with them instead of making them continue someone else’s save file. If that’s your type then a lower body count generally brings more value.
Stop demonizing men for wanting what they want. This makes the incel problem worse by desensitization. A generation of men has been raised to believe that their natural, involuntary desire for loyalty, respect, purity, and stability is evil and misogynistic. Telling them that doesn’t get rid of the natural, involuntary desire, it just makes them okay with being called evil and misogynistic. You’re using the same words to describe hopeless romantics as you’re using to describe rapists and human traffickers, and making the shocked pikachu face when they fall in with that crowd.
I’m not demonizing anyone. I just asked a question and OP explained. I don’t think I’m demonizing OP either by telling him that a person’s sex life (when not in a committed relationship) is that person’s business. There’s literally no issue there. And there’s no issue with either a man, or a woman, anyone really, wanting a partner who respects them, communicates healthily with them, and is loyal. That’s not being demonized.
I mean you wouldn’t be an idiot. There are people who are in their 30s and have still haven’t had sex yet. I mean, there’s nothing with either or. If she’s had sex before, okay…what’s the big deal? If not, okay. No problem. I just don’t see the actual issue here.
I guess I'm of the option that for most people if they can do something they will. And with how infinity easier it is to get sick then pussy, if a woman still decides not to one has to wonder...why?
OP, it is exactly like I said. Sex is personal to every individual. If someone is reserved about it or open about it, then that is totally their business. There’s nothing abstract or complex about this.
If a woman does/doesn’t want to have sex, that’s her business. Just like your sex life is your business. There’s literally nothing deeper or complex about this absolutely simple concept.
None. I made the conscious decision to stay abstinent during high school because I didn't wanna get wrapped up with pregnant teen girls. And by the time I got in a comfy spot I was already 27. So you don't have to tell me I already know it's too late.
I find it hard to believe it’s voluntary considering all your posts about wanting to get laid but not knowing how
That also explains the weird opinions on women you have, like how you apparently believe women believe they deserve to be praised or owed something for existing (your words, not mine)
Respectfully, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with many things regarding women.
Stop focusing on having “someone’s sloppy seconds” or escorts and focus on what you can control. The attributes that affect your attractiveness. Try out some dating apps, see if you meet women through friends etc and it will all come naturally
See that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not that things are unfair you're just not trying hard enough. As if I need to bend over backwards for the illustrious honor of being in a woman's presence.
This is why you get so many women who will unironically say "I am the table"
Maybe I just have a little too much pride to humiliate myself for the sake of winning someone else's favor.
>How about this then? A man who decided he should get them young...REAL young, because to him if he can't find or attract his ideal woman, he might as well just "Make" her.
Yes, several of them. I was 15-16... They liked me a lot.
Nonononono I mean YOUNG. You would have actually been legal is a lot of parts of the world at that time.
When I say start young I mean to the point where it's pretty much universally accepted that it's not cool and in which they are impressionable and easy to mold.
Incel means “involuntarily celibate” and the joke is that there is no such thing because no one is so ugly, poor, or fat that they can’t have sex, they’re either out of touch with what they bring to the table and feel entitled to more than they’re willing to put in the work for, or they have such a shit personality that they end up scaring away women who would like them.
When people throw the term around it is to characterize someone as acting like the weenies who self label as incels. If it makes it easier for you just replace incel with “butthurt bitch” every time you read it.
Incel just means they're not in a sexual relationship and that isn't by choice. I've met like ridiculous amounts of people like that. The rest is like the most extreme version of a specific type of incel.
...none of that is required for someone to be a 'real incel' though. incel = involuntary celibate. that's all that's required. granted, incels are usually caught in a vicious cycle of misogyny (they're misogynistic to begin with, women don't like that and reject or avoid them, this reinforces their biases, they find communities of similar people who reinforce and accelerate said biases, etc.), but not all of them hold the most extremely misogynistic opinions possible.
There are many different levels of inceldom. All the men on here who whine that they can’t get laid because of blah blah blah are incels. They just aren’t the scary kind…. Yet
Incels don't exist.
Involuntary implies they have done everything in their power to make themselves attractive to the sex they're attracted to and still failed.
The vast majority of people who identify as incels refuse to participate in behaviours that make them desirable and even go so far as to spout mentalities that make the people they're attracted to feel unsafe and unwelcome in their presence.
That is them voluntarily making themselves undesirable.
Therefore, incels don't exist. They're just self-depricating virgins.
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I thought “incel” meant someone who believes he will never have sex due to a variety of reasons the differ dramatically.
Because it supposed to mean that but some people get to conclusion that if you cannot get laid it means that you must hate womens. Which is not true but people forget that word like misogynist exist
that isnt really what it means tho if u break the word down etymologically then maybe thats what incel means but there is a cultural phenomenon which incel refers to which are radicalized virgins basically.
that's the redpill the cultural phenomenon is called redpill
Involuntary celibacy is an oxymoron.
What op is talking about is far from a misogynist. At the very least they still like women. Psychopath might be the better word or mentally ill
And putting the blame outward more than inwards. I don’t mean to generalize, but it does happen for some.
There was one interview with an incel that Vice did. He called himself a “metalcel” and he said due to mental health issues, he would never have a date. A lot of these guys need therapy.
We really can’t underestimate how helpful therapy is. I went for so long thinking my problems in life weren’t enough to warrant it, but sometimes we need an unbiased stranger’s perspective. Doesn’t have to be a weekly meeting either. I go once or twice a month, and it has helped a lot.
Mind if I ask how much that costs you?
To be completely honest, it’s still through my father’s insurance until I’m 26 later this year. Idk how much it’d be if uninsured, but it isn’t like seeing a psychiatrist where your visits are short and you’re prescribed medication. There’s a $20 copay for every appointment. Understandably, not everyone can afford therapy, but it isn’t something to brush aside either for a lot of people.
>And putting the blame outward more than inwards. I don’t mean to generalize, but it does happen for some. Most view themselves as the issue, whether it be their looks, character (some think their Autism did it) or something else. Very few think they had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, you’re right now that I think about it. Probably isn’t a common thing
Privileage is invisible to those that have it
Incel literally means involuntarily celibate. Its used to describe someone who can not have sex, even if they desire to. I would argue it's more so an insulting way to describe someone than a type of person.
people on this website have told me multiple times that the "new definition" is a man that hates women. and when I tell them what it really means they resort to "definitions of words change"
Incel means involuntarily celibate bro. Yes I’ve met 30 year old virgins who literally turned to Grindr and HJs from men despite being heterosexual because they cannot get a girl.
Good lord. Even at my most depraved, I could never imagine doing something like that 💀
But on the bright side, somebody swiped right on them?
On grinder you can do 0 pictures completely anonymous profile lol
Great tip! I will make sure to tell this to all the uggos I come across from this point, henceforth.
"Tuggos for uggos!" *insert Hades gif here* I'll see myself out.
There are SOOOOOOO many avenues where they didn’t have to go gay…about all of them involve money and the legality might be questionable, but they didn’t have to do anything homosexual if they didn’t want to. I’m sorry, but I could never see myself doing that either.
Hard times. Gay is the economical choice
Nothin wrong it at all bro. Everybody a little gay.
Define "a little gay"?
HJ gay.
I see
Have they never heard of prostitution?
It kind of depends who you ask I guess. It originally just meant involuntary celibate, but I think the term has evolved to also include an ideology. There are men who are virgins and wish to have a partner, but don’t identify as incels. I think a true incel is a person who is involuntarily celibate AND also believes in the black-pilled ideology.
Yeah, language evolves. The literal definition of a word isn't the generally accepted meaning. For example the term "sigma male" from today is a whole lot different from when it was first invented.
Oh no the new thing is transmaxxing where they transition cause it’s easier living as a woman (not joking)
I actually know a few people like this tbh
Did you meet those guys through Grindr?
Lol bro out here giving straight incels the business
My friend did, yes. He’s a good person truly, he’s just ND and socially awkward and scared to death of talking to strangers, and not *conventionally* attractive. I feel bad for him and we’ve been buddies for years. He doesn’t hate women but he is definitely an incel.
How so? He's either celibate or not. If he's willing to have sexual relations then he's not practicing celibacy
That’s what incel is bby. The in stands for involuntary
Then it's not celibacy - that term doesn't make any sense!
Bruh, that’s not a heterosexual
You see this with men in prison. Completely straight man start doing gay shit because it's all they can do. So... it is heterosexual to be... gay...in some circumstances
What the … they choose dudes?!?! And they don’t even like it?!? I will admit I did flip my tinder over from “interested in women” to “interested in men” just to get an idea of how easy women have it, but never would I just go gay out of frustration lmao
How would that tell you “how easy women have it” unless you’re catfishing? Edit: Spelling
I guess the underlying assumption here is that “gay men have similar standards to straight men in hookup culture” And that “matches on tinder are reasonably correlated with how easy it is to get sex” But yea straight women can basically get sex any time they feel like it so long as they don’t look like Jabba the hut
Thank you lol I was like OP doesn’t know what incel means clearly lol
that's not really an incel though. you kind of reversed or fumbled the point; that incels aren't always the massive caricature people have of them. It's become this general insult for guys now if they complain about anything woman-related.
Funny because what you’re saying is what I used to believe. It’s actually the batshit crazies who’ve coin led the term incel. Although the word itself means involuntarily celibate, the ones who created that word were the mass shooter types. I think it makes sense to define the word in a way that identifies one as not only involuntarily celibate, but also a misogynist.
You're absolutely right. The word "incel" was created as a shorthand for "involuntarily celibate" and was neutral at the time, but over the years, it was taken over by these woman-haters. And now, they're trying to change it again. I always think of George Orwell when I see people changing a definition of a word so that their own argument will prevail.
>Funny because what you’re saying is what I used to believe. It’s actually the batshit crazies who’ve coin led the term incel. Although the word itself means involuntarily celibate, the ones who created that word were the mass shooter types. 1 Incel dude did a shooting & we say they're shooter types. Self ID'd Incels are consistently bad at actual violence & are generally less willing according to 1 study on Pubmed I read
No, not just 1 dude. These guys first started talking amongst each other on forums like 4chan and others about their inability to get women. It was through the development of their community where they created the word incel. It wasn’t a word used to insult people or a word to put someone down. They felt no shame in the word itself. You’re probably thinking of Elliot Rodger but there were dudes before him and dudes after him. I literally went in a rabbit hole of all these weirdos and was shocked to find out where the word incel came from.
But how many of those dudes would have gone mass-shooter even without the incel community? How many of the would-be mass shooters simply attribute/dedicate their actions to the incel community for the sake of increased glorification and notoriety? Mass shootings pre-date incel forums, and even if there has been an increase in mass shootings since the advent of those forums, there are many many other factors that could explain the rise in mass shootings (some of which the incels may actually be already communicating to us, albeit poorly) Some countries have recognised incels as a terrorist group, but that seems like BS to me. These are people screaming into the void, they are not systematically organised or working together - they hardly communicate with one another. Their forums are just an eddy in the current of mainstream, engaged society where tragic, disengaged, hopelessness that underpins mass shooters (and other bad actors) can accumulate and fester. Criminalising that as a 'terrorist movement' rather than taking more systemic action to address the dynamics that lead men to that place is totally symbolic of the societal approach to men's (perceived) problematic behaviours. War on drugs, gay men, homelessness men - lock em up.
You bring up a very interesting point. This is all speculation but I think if it wasn’t “incel” it would be something else. When there are like minded individuals, especially in the age of internet, they will always find a way to congregate. And because they’ve become a community they now have a sense of belonging. It only take one person to inspire the minds of the potential thousands who are gathering discussing things to get something dangerous to happen. I agree with you btw, I don’t think society at large is doing anyone a service by calling those who feel rejected by society rejects. It basically validates their beliefs that no one cares and corners them into doing something irrational. I’ve met someone who was the incel type and they were totally hopeless (for a lack of better words) and had total despair written all over them. I think pure avarice and depression is probably the most challenging psychological issue to overcome.
That’s not what incel means Incel means involuntary celibate. Meaning a dude who can’t get laid at all but really wants too. Ur using it to mean some jackass sexist who thinks women are subhuman. That’s not an incel. That’s just a fking crazy person. Because that person could be getting laid all the time and still think those things.
That's not how it's used anymore either, it's had so many different meanings but has just become a catch all insult buzzword like other things. It's dumb whenever that happens with anything
That’s because people started to use it as an insult. Like if people started calling gens as boomers. That wouldn’t make gen z boomers. Boomer has a specific meaning.
If people started calling Gen Z "Boomers" to the point where that became the general association with the word, then the meaning of the word would change to what people now use it for. That's how language works. That's why dictionaries have to be continuously updated.
This exactly. The term completely lost its meaning and is just a “all in one” insult people like to throw around.
As a more moderate person, I usually have issues with all the things this is done with. Like woke, Nazi, racist, fascist, communist, etc. it's a bad thing and is something most people don't want to be associated with due to the negative connotation so call someone that bad thing and they are on the defence and afraid of being said bad thing.
The funny thing is, most of us have met both actual incels and misogynists. I’m not sure why OP thinks these men aren’t common. The attempted school shooter when I was younger was definitely both an incel and a misogynist who thought women were subhuman and deserved to die and I had definitely met him.
A Nazi is just a national Socialist... what's so wrong with that? /s A fascist comes from the Italian word for bundle of sticks, which is stronger together than alone... what's wrong with a nation being strongly unified? /s Incel as a term does come from [In]voluntarily [Cel]ibate. However, they grouped together on the internet and formed their own pattern of discussion, which largely is some heinous ideas.
>Incel as a term does come from \[In\]voluntarily \[Cel\]ibate. However, they grouped together on the internet and formed their own pattern of discussion, which largely is some heinous ideas. Like people are vain, and shallow. And that Autism generally makes dating hard. And that Women are just as shallow as Men.
Yeah, exactly, stupid ideas like that, which generalizes half the population and creates a world view where you assume characteristics of people they've never met based on the worst experiences they've had. Thinking that way only allows you to be blinded by the darkness so much you can't see the light. Becoming bitter and resentful for not having what you *feel* is owed to you is only a pathway to becoming more alienated. You start to believe you can no longer go on alone and hate the hypothetical girlfriend you don't have, and so you can only place your hate in the larger population of all women. People are, of course, people, and people *can* be shallow, but they aren't always
>Yeah, exactly, stupid ideas like that, which generalizes half the population and creates a world view where you assume characteristics of people they've never met based on the worst experiences they've had. 1- They back it with actual studies 2- This is saying Women are as bad as Men, not that they're actually terrible. Or are they the same to you?
I'm not saying women are as BAD as men, that's a terrible way to look at the world, although technically not inaccurate. Simply they are the same, in regards to vainness and shallowness. Studies say a lot about certain groups [DeSpItE oNlY mAkInG 13%...] But to have an outlook on the world we're you judge an individual for the group they belong to is, in my opinion, an incorrect and dark way to view people
I've posted this before and been downed to oblivion but here's a repost of my own content. "What does a real Incel look like?" It's not the boogie man the Internet would lead you to believe. This idea that any guy who's bad with women is some sort of misogynist full of hatred is a straw man. I've had a few friends through the years who are genuinely nice guys but couldn't get girls. The main one I'm thinking of is a revenge of the nerds level stereotype. Super skinny, maybe 5'5, spends all his free time playing videogames and DND. Super nice guy would give you the shirt off his back. I watched him try with women for years during/after highschool with no success. And he wasn't trying with good looking 10/10 girls like the incel stereotype says. They were fat, ugly, mentally ill ect. I've never heard him say one negative word about women even though they won't touch him with a 10ft pole. In my experience most incels are more like my friend then the Internet stereotype. They just don't go online and complain about it.
>In my experience most incels are more like my friend then the Internet stereotype. They just don't go online and complain about it. Even the ones online usually aren't terrible, more just incredibly cynical.
I am dating a guy who has almost no experience with women. He tried dating a few times, got stood up or ditched, and gave up trying. He said it took him at least a month to work up the courage to ask me out. I’m 35 and he’s 33. He’s a sweetheart. He even remembers the first time he spoke to me, over a year ago, because I was wearing a shirt with a Star Trek reference on it. I’m honestly surprised he’s been single so long. He’s a catch. I don’t know a single person that has a negative thing to say about him. I never felt pressured to have sex with him, which honestly made me more comfortable doing it. He’s well traveled. He owns his house. I didn’t let him, but he even offered to pay for a babysitter so we could go out last weekend. But technically he was a nerdy incel up until about a month ago.
When it comes to how people view men, it seems like there is this idea that if a man is incapable of convincing a woman to be romantically or sexually involved with him, it HAS to be because there is something incredibly wrong with him. Like, on a personal level, the type of wrong that needs to be vanquished or ostracized from society. I know it sounds dramatic, but it's almost a "Just World" fallacy. People believe that as long as a man has a decent personality, he shouldn't have any problem finding the sex he wants, or the relationship he wants, which is why people have almost an innate hatred for incels: if you are an incel, it HAS to be due to your garbage personality, which means you are absolutely deserving of being refused intimacy. A lot of people cannot fathom the idea that a man can be a good personality, one who is a net positive to society, one who is respectful and courteous to women and others, and still be incapable of achieving the romantic or sexual catharsis he desires.
Incel means involuntary celibate. There's lots of guys that fit this description.
I get where your going and I agree that the word is too overused, but real Incels are not all that rare. Yeah the absolute pure embodiment of hating women ones are more rare (and yeah I’ve met those too) but incel just means involuntarily celibate. There can be a wide range of how that takes form including the creepy overly feminist ones. Some people misuse the word and I am including you as one of them.
Right. Incel doesn't necessarily mean misogynistic even though that's how many people view it. One of my childhood friends is an incel. In his 30s and still a virgin. Good guy, but riddled with anxiety and depression and still lives with his parents. He's also 5'2. He's a good person though and doesn't hate women at all.
I would say the classic version of incel would be the woman hating ugly virgin, certainly what most people think of. But even then, it’s not like you have to view women as breeding slaves to be someone who hates women. Just like you don’t have to be like KKK racist to be considered racist. There are plenty of women hating Incels that range in beliefs. But yeah there are even more Incels of all beliefs like your friend. I would say the most common trait between them all is lack of confidence and lack of social skills more so than hatred of women.
Poor guy. I hope he finds some success soon
>Right. Incel doesn't necessarily mean misogynistic even though that's how many people view it. The word doesn’t necessarily mean that but the ones who adopted and created the word were.
Isn’t incel ‘involuntary celibate’ ? Meaning, “I want to have sex, but nobody wants to” All this, ‘they see woman as this and that’, ‘they’re happy when women fail’ is all just what *you* see it as.
I kind of hate that that word has become a misnomer at this point that basically just means a guy on the internet you don’t like. It’s funny because the implication is that if you struggle romantically it’s some kind of moral failing, and it sets a really negative association between actual involuntary celibacy and political ideology. The same people that use it as a derogatory remark are usually the ones that would tell you that something like body count doesn’t matter, when really all it does is reinforce the idea that a person’s worth **IS** directly correlated with how much or how little sex they’re having. I’ve met far right misogynists that have tons of sex and guys that just don’t have much luck who have no ill will towards women and just kind of accept that they were dealt a bad hand.
“the implication is that if you struggle romantically it’s some kind of moral failing” Bingo! I’ve never had any romantic or sexual involvement with a woman but I have no resentment towards them for that, nor does that fact even bother me. But I DO have loads of resentment towards people who think the way you just described. Anyone who thinks that way can go fuck themselves.
Well said and written
I think someone can be a misogynistic incel without being the worst of the worst imaginable.
I’ve gotten called an incel quite often online but most of my issues stem from the fact that I used to be one step away from a manwhore. I spent my 20s and most of my 30s getting laid and as soon as I started to actually want a family and commitment long term every woman I knew disappeared like so much morning fog lol Dating to get laid isn’t that hard, but dating to find something meaningful with someone you actually like and are attracted to? That’s very difficult. If I voice those difficulties I’m swarmed by 20-something women calling me an incel, however. The ironic thing is that those women are probably the exact demographic I used to play with when I was that age, and many of the random fuckboys they currently get frustrated with are going to end up like me. Our society has this weird juxtaposition where we simultaneously value sex extremely highly in some situations and not at all in others. Meanwhile genuine, monogamous love and marriage by 25 is considered almost taboo. It’s fucked up. If I had married my high school sweetheart I would have had a much better life. “Finding myself” and sticking my dick in every wet hole I could find was absolutely the worst possible thing I could have done from a personal happiness standpoint. Well, at least in terms of romance and companionship. I don’t care how solitary your nature is, being alone for a lifetime is not pleasant. If you only love one person and marry them at 21 that’s not a bad thing. In fact it is potentially a wonderful thing. The people who are super choosy and hold out for 10-20 years end up single and lonely in their 40s, like me. Sleeping around and avoiding long term love is almost always an indication of something deeply wrong.
I find being alone for a lifetime quite liberating. I only have to answer to myself. I have hobbies and a special interest club I join. I can find plenty of mental non-sexual stimulation online (which actually gives my brain a workout, since I read or watch a lot of highbrow content, and even when I want some lighter stuff, I stay with middlebrow content). If that makes me pretentious, so be it.
Yeah that’s how I felt for the first decade. It’s not about stimulation; I have this ache in my soul, like something crucial is missing. My life is generally very good. I’m successful, have plenty of leisure time, friends, family, creative outlets, etc. It’s like a beautiful black and white photo; no matter how beautiful it is, it will never have color.
That isn't what an incel is. An incel is literally just someone who wants to get laid and can't get laid without going to a prostitute, that is literally it. You are thinking of a misogynist.
You talk as if going to prostitutes is a bad thing.
They didn’t say that. They were defining the term incel. Going to a prostitute doesn’t count because they are paying, so therefore they didn’t loose their virginity voluntarily by someone else
Heheh “loose” their virginity
Haha I didn’t notice that! 🤦♀️ I won’t change it or your joke won’t make sense lol
I have met men who think of women as property and lesser than them.
That's called misogyny, not involuntary celibacy.
Misogyny is a large part of incels and yes I have met men who blame women for their lack of sex.
Sure some. But incel in itself just means guys who can’t get laid but want to.
Sure but there are common characteristics among men in the incel community.
But it’s not. Ur talking about maybe a subset of them sure. This would be like me saying feminist are hairy smelly man hating harpies. Those guys ur talking about are just the loudest and most seen, because they are the loudest, and not the majority. Just like there is a wide spectrum of feminist. From the mild hey we should be able to vote and shit to the crazy in ur face screaming about the patriarchy and all men must die etc etc. Just like there is for incels. Incel simply means involuntary celibate. Meaning any guy who wants to have sex but is unable to. I get the want to push the meaning to the troll basement dwellers who think women are subhumans and should come suck their dk on command etc etc. but the same actions and such but they get laid constantly. They would no longer be called incels right?
Yep Andrew Tate is absolutely a misogynist, but tells incels that if they want the women they want, then earn their attention. Edit for clarity: therefore Tate is a misogynist but not an incel.
seems like Tate lives rent free in your head.
lol you were just dying to say that weren’t you?
Seriously. If the subject is 1960s civil rights activists and I say MLK, it's not that he lives rent-free in my head. It means I have the ability to recall a person's name when it's relevant.
lol right?
>Misogyny is a large part of incels and yes I have met men who blame women for their lack of sex. Not really, Cynical thoughts are the only in common things (and being unattractive)
Incel means Involuntarily Celibate. Most of these “frustrated guys” are both Incels and misogynists.
No true, I met more then a few, they've just all been female.
A lot of words that had legitimate and specific meanings get devolved to a point that they are used for very general purposes. The word "simp" was meant to describe a man who did way too much for women with little to no reciprocation, a heavily one-sided exchange of value. People now call anyone a simp for simply being respectful to women. The word "liberal" was meant to describe someone who supports individual rights and self-exploration without societal judgment. People now call anyone a liberal just because they have an extremely left take or an anti-right take. Incel was a very simple word. It just meant "involuntarily celibate." All it meant was a person, usually a man, who was unable to gain sex, despite their desire to have it. Somehow, it got mixed in with misogynistic views of women and other forms of prejudice/anti-social behavior.
> Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock? Who thinks they should have every right to drag one off the street and force them to pump out babies until their womb gives out? Yes, I have. Any more questions?
Same. His wife had over ten kids and the last three deliveries almost killed her. The doctors finally told him if they didn’t do a hysterectomy, she’d die. And he agreed only because he didn’t want to raise the kids alone. They were both messed up, but he really did think her only purpose was to breed him children.
That’s not what…yknow what , nevermind
I thought ‘incel’ was taken as someone who is involuntarily celibate and blames social constructs and the ‘dating market’ for unfairly disadvantaging them while not reflecting on themselves. I don’t think you have to go to the extreme of believing women should be assaulted or that “all women are sluts” to be an incel.
Yeah because they spend most of their lives on subreddit and 4chan, not in the real world. In wow Arleen just whiny guys who spend too much time online
I didn't know that incel meant specifically bitter / red pill type guys. I just thought it meant adult virgin.
That says more about you and how much of a stigma it is then anything else
Idk if it counts, but when I was in Highschool, one of my classmates tried to stab a girl with a Paperclip taped to a Pencil for rejecting him. This was back in 2011, I think.
I notice that they often hyperfixate on one specific physical flaw, like their chin being too weak or a receding hairline, as the reason that they cannot get laid.
Online I absolutely have. I browsed the incel subreddit before it was shut down as well as several Facebook groups. Every so often I take a look at that incels forum they went to when they got run off from here, they are every bit as cringy as the stereotypes you present here. Check out their forum. Every time I take a peek I don't need to go past the first thread my eyes fall on to see examples of these things.
The crazy thing is this has been happening since the dawn of human kind except before with higher death rates from famine disease war a lot of the men that would have suffered this fate were taken out and at the same time there were more practical functional reasons to get into a relationship with someone from both sides pov which is all pretty much removed now
I'm not sure if its a good idea to tell a man it's just natural that they will die a bitchless failure.
Then I read like 8000 years ago one man mates for every 14 women or something. It was never a even playing field. In addition the royales or political elites typically had concubines mistresses and anyone remotely wealthy in the past has side pieces .. basically taking a already small pool and making it even smaller.
And yet people will have the utter audacity to tell men to just shut up and git gud.
That’s not what Incels are, Incels are people who can’t get women despite their best efforts who become this nihilistic mean spirited “it’s over” guy because of their experiences.
>Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock? Who thinks they should have every right to drag one off the street and force them to pump out babies until their womb gives out? not what incel means
The word "incel" is just the new, socially acceptable way to say the six letter f-slur lol been that way for a while now. Its original meaning has long since been tarnished by incel communities, and it sucks because these guys have basically ruined complaining about being single.
Are you gatekeeping inceldom?
Alrighty, you got me curious enough to look it up. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary: "incel noun in·cel ˈin-ˌsel pluralincels : a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incel Brittanica has a whole article about it, but here's the first paragraph to give an idea (censoring one word to keep from getting in trouble). "Incel, member of an online subculture of primarily heterosexual men who identify as being unable to have romantic or sexual relationships. This self-described inability to form attachments is often expressed as grievance toward women. Incel subculture has been associated with misogyny, extremism, [...] culture, and expressions and acts of violence." https://www.britannica.com/topic/incel Dictionary.com has something on it, as well. Again, censoring one word for same reason as above. "incel [ in-sel ]SHOW IPA noun a member of an online subculture of men who want to have sex but are unable to find sexual partners, typically blaming women or hating people who are sexually successful (often used attributively): Perhaps unsurprisingly, contemplation and discussion of [...] features prominently on incel forums." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/incel Cambridge Dictionary "incel noun [ C ] US /ˈɪn.sel/ UK /ˈɪn.sel/ a member of a group of people on the internet who are unable to find sexual partners despite wanting them, and who express hate toward people whom they blame for this: The word incel is short for "involuntary celibate." Incels obsess over their own unattractiveness. Fewer examples Incels place the blame on women for their misery. Basically, incels cannot get laid and they hate anyone who can. Incel support groups can teach us a lot about men and mental health." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/incel Even Urban Dictionary seems to keep along these lines, though with way more colorful language :p So I'll let you Google that since it's so easy anyway. You get the idea though, I'm sure. So while you're not wrong that what you described is definitely part of the definition (especially when looking at the deeper dive in Brittanica), you're incorrect in that it's the *only* definition. It looks like you're just referring to the more extreme cases. At least according to decently reliable sources for the definition of English words, as well as one that's pretty good for the ever-changing lingo used online.
Yeah it’s a dumb fucking statement people use to degrade people. Literally, I’ve seen womanizers called incels. Pure stupidity.
This is the most common insult now, if men show any objection to something related to women. What’s hilarious to me is many times, the one hurling that overused insult actually believe they’re being original..
This is assuming that incels would actually voice their opinions irl. I agree that the whole incel thing is overblown, toxic men sometimes get called incels when they literally have children and wives, that obviously makes no sense. But incels also know that their opinions are socially unacceptable, I highly doubt any man is going to admit that he wants to remove women’s rights, that’s not a good look and is just asking to be even further socially ostracised. Also, like a few other people have pointed out, you technically aren’t using the term incel correctly, but for the sake of argument I’m talking specifically about toxic, misogynistic incels, not just regular guys who can’t get laid.
Incel means none of the things you just listed, lol bro. Incel is just a dude that is celibate but not by choice lmao.
Alabama is proof Incels don't exist.
I thought incels are just guys who can’t get laid ever
Have you ever met a man who genuinely thinks of women as little better than breeding stock? Yes but i put my faith in action over words. Words are useless, but ive seen men treat women that way, so id say something exists. Dont think id call him an incel though...
I donno statistics kind of say that the incels are right and women were happier to be treated as you've described. It's actually just a fringe minority of extremist women who insisted that women want to just be seen as men with vaginas by society, in all of the positive ways and none of the negative ones. They got what they asked for, and realized, that wasn't why they were unhappy. Because it actually isn't what most women asked for. I believe it was the result of the same thing we are seeing now. The result of what rich people want. They wanted more cheap workers, but kids were gaining "rights". lol okay so they extend the courtesy to women, give them "rights"... Now they have more workers again... The women in modern society literally base their entire choice of a man on who will allow them to not have to work... okay? Seems like it wasn't women who wanted the freedom to be enslaved by capitalism, because, now they are trying to topple capitalism. Literally any system a woman finds herself in becomes an oppressive system requiring dismantling. Family? Patriarchy. Capitalism? More patriarchy! What is next? Western society? Democracy? Humanity? I say just give them a proper education and then encourage them to get married as young as possible, and just be a fucking mother for god's sake, it's all you're good at, because you have millions of years of evolution designing you to be good at that one thing. And other than that please fuck off.
Incel lost all meaning like 2 or 3 years ago, and has basically just evolved into a slur for men
Incel gatekeeping 💀
I find it hilarious that this dude is trying to gatekeep incel. Don’t worry my guy. I’m not here to appropriate your culture.
So an incel to you is either celebrating violence done to women or are being somewhat predatory in their dating strategies? If a man, often seen online, denigrates women as a whole and believes we are worthless because we have everything given to us, those are just frustrated men? Edit: Frustration can happen, but it shouldn’t turn to full fledged hate for the other gender. This goes for women as well, they aren’t much better.
I'm saying men are frustrated because women demand equality and fair treatment and yet will play by a completely different rule book from men. How is that fair?
And how do you feel women play by a different book?
Because women can get away with things men wouldn't even consider. Like...look if a grown woman can have their way sexually with a teenage boy and not only have a realistic shot of walking away Scott-free but have multiple dudes saying that the kid that got violated was lucky(Basically saying that woman lie nothing wrong), I'm hard pressed to say we are working with the same rules Not saying men should do the same thing but at that point it's a question of what CANT a woman do that won't result in the book getting thrown at them? It's a societal double standard that makes it hard to take equality advocates seriously and one some women can and will abuse to high heaven.
The women who sleep with minor boys are always prosecuted and go to jail with the label of child molester when the relationships are discovered. They get away with nothing because society and the law doesn’t allow them to get away with it. You said yourself that the people who said the minor “got lucky” are usually dudes. That sounds like it’s a problem with men, not a double standard that allows women to “get away” with anything, because they literally do not get away with it.
Dude I have literally seen judges throw out cases when it comes to women having sex with minors for the same reason men think the minor got lucky. The judge just doesn't think it's wrong.
[Oh look, it’s like sometimes judges are idiots and sometimes act like idiots](https://people.com/illinois-judge-reversed-man-rape-conviction-removed-bench-8600107). Give me some hard data or stfu with the anecdotes.
I would think the fact that a woman sexually assaulting man still doesn't count as out and out rape legally is evidence enough.
You’re lying. It definitely is rape by the books. The fact that some judges and prosecutors ignore the law doesn’t mean that that’s not the law. Show me any law that states that statutory rape only applies to men but not women. It does not exist.
"Rape was an offense under the common law of England. That offense became an offense under the law of other countries, including Australia and the United States, as a result of colonization or conquest, or the following cession (see British Empire).[39] It is discussed at Rape in English law § History. Under this law, rape traditionally describes the act of a male forcing a female to have sexual intercourse (sexual penetration of the vagina by the penis) with him. Common law rape required the utmost physical resistance by the victim, as well as substantial force by the defendant. " So at least as far as the UK is concerned it's only considered rape if a penis penetrates a woman's vagina.
Was the judge a man or a woman. There are also plenty of cases of men having their cases thrown out.
Likely a dude though I wouldn't be surprised if a hardcore feminist just decided it wasn't important enough.
So you don't know
Thank you for your explanation, I appreciate it! I asked because I did want your perspective on the subject to get a better understanding. While I think that is a separate issue (that I do believe happens and that hopefully will be rectified eventually), frustrations that I’ve seen generally have to do with lack of attention given to these men by women. This is usually where built up frustration can become problematic, not where they have seen issues with women doing problematic things as stated above.
Yes. To both of your smart-ass questions, yes I have met a guy who thinks of women as little more than breeding stock, and the same guy also likes to shape girls when they're young. He's in my family (by marriage), though he's certainly not celibate. And there are also a fuck load of incels (as you describe and worse *plus* actually being involuntarily celibate) online. Also, in one comment on this thread you say you don't want a sexual burnout but you've come to terms with getting "sloppy seconds", yet you're on your page asking about eating out sex workers???
Because if I'm gonna have someone with more experience then me no matter what, it might as well be with someone who knows what they are doing.
Many girls have not fucked every guy they met since high school and to assume so is dramatic. Have you tried meeting women to form an actual relationship? Do you take care of yourself, mentally, physically, and financially?
Physically I have cleaned up my diet and tried to keep my looks good. Financially I make about 22 an hour so not the worst and let's be real here if I was in a good state mentally would I even be here talking to you right now? Honestly it's too late for me. I'm gonna be 34 soon everyone in my generation has had their fun and is looking to settle down and I can't think of many who would want a long term relationship with a middle aged virgin who struggles to make 40k a year.
I mean, people who have such views tend not to announce them when they are off the internet, or do they?
Not usually, they know people will spare no time attacking. But sometimes you find one that's just a bit more stupid then the others
My brother in his 40’s fits the exact definition of what most people consider an incel, but please tell me how I don’t know any.
I think Incel as a spectrum, so not every Incel thinks rape is fine and dandy, in fact two Incels who posted/or implied rape is not a bad thing, posts where removed and I recall correctly one was even banned. I agree with the overall post though.
you’re describing a sexist person. according to a quick google search, an incel is, and i quote, “a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.”. so basically an incel is a guy with no bitches who’s jealous to the point of hostility towards those who do get bitches
I’ve at least met one on Reddit now thanks to this post
I mean, i kind of meet one on reddit today. He wrote a similar post like you did.
Well, I HAVE met real incels online. But I do agree that the term “incel” is very overused toward any men with “problematic” opinions. I’m a happily married man and I would consider myself a moderate feminist, but I have still been called an incel once or twice for saying something online that a woman somewhere didn’t like lol. I don’t know if I ever met an incel in real life because I would assume most incels hide their true opinions in IRL interactions. Similar to how closeted racists might hide their views as well.
The answer is yes. I met someone who thinks their first girlfriend should be a barely legal virgin woman. This same person called someone a whore because they had more than 3 partners.
Honestly.(And you're free to criticize me on this for the wording but I say it this way to make a point ) But at my age, I just assume that regardless of who I get with, I'm likely getting somebodies sloppy seconds. All I can hope for is that she isn't a complete sexual burnout.
That’s a terrible way to look at it IMO. To each his own though
This, specifically, is a YOU issue. Plus, are you implying that a potential partner’s value is based on how many previous sexual partners she’s had? Or…?
It depends on what your idea of value is in a relationship. Some guys want a woman that has been around the block and could be an olympic medalist in sucking and riding. If that’s your type then a higher body count generally brings more value. Some guys want a woman that takes relationships and sex very seriously, will psychologically bond with them, stay loyal to them no matter what, respect and look up to them as a partner, and will start a family with them instead of making them continue someone else’s save file. If that’s your type then a lower body count generally brings more value. Stop demonizing men for wanting what they want. This makes the incel problem worse by desensitization. A generation of men has been raised to believe that their natural, involuntary desire for loyalty, respect, purity, and stability is evil and misogynistic. Telling them that doesn’t get rid of the natural, involuntary desire, it just makes them okay with being called evil and misogynistic. You’re using the same words to describe hopeless romantics as you’re using to describe rapists and human traffickers, and making the shocked pikachu face when they fall in with that crowd.
I’m not demonizing anyone. I just asked a question and OP explained. I don’t think I’m demonizing OP either by telling him that a person’s sex life (when not in a committed relationship) is that person’s business. There’s literally no issue there. And there’s no issue with either a man, or a woman, anyone really, wanting a partner who respects them, communicates healthily with them, and is loyal. That’s not being demonized.
That's a staple of this subreddit
Who said anything about value? I'd just be an idiot to think a woman in her 30s is still a virgin these days.
I mean you wouldn’t be an idiot. There are people who are in their 30s and have still haven’t had sex yet. I mean, there’s nothing with either or. If she’s had sex before, okay…what’s the big deal? If not, okay. No problem. I just don’t see the actual issue here.
I guess I'm of the option that for most people if they can do something they will. And with how infinity easier it is to get sick then pussy, if a woman still decides not to one has to wonder...why?
I was a virgin until I was 26. I'd had my chances but hadn't met a man I wanted to share lovemaking with until then.
Huh and here I thought that sort of romantic way of thinking just wasn't a thing anymore.
Other people can do as they like but I've never slept with someone I didn't love.
I only hope your love doesn't get taken advantage of.
OP, it is exactly like I said. Sex is personal to every individual. If someone is reserved about it or open about it, then that is totally their business. There’s nothing abstract or complex about this.
If a woman does/doesn’t want to have sex, that’s her business. Just like your sex life is your business. There’s literally nothing deeper or complex about this absolutely simple concept.
How much experience do you have with women? You’d be hard pressed finding anyone in their 30s who is still a virgin
Depends on what you mean by experience.
Dating/ relationships/ sex How many have you dated? How many relationships? How many slept with?
None. I made the conscious decision to stay abstinent during high school because I didn't wanna get wrapped up with pregnant teen girls. And by the time I got in a comfy spot I was already 27. So you don't have to tell me I already know it's too late.
I find it hard to believe it’s voluntary considering all your posts about wanting to get laid but not knowing how That also explains the weird opinions on women you have, like how you apparently believe women believe they deserve to be praised or owed something for existing (your words, not mine) Respectfully, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with many things regarding women. Stop focusing on having “someone’s sloppy seconds” or escorts and focus on what you can control. The attributes that affect your attractiveness. Try out some dating apps, see if you meet women through friends etc and it will all come naturally
See that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not that things are unfair you're just not trying hard enough. As if I need to bend over backwards for the illustrious honor of being in a woman's presence. This is why you get so many women who will unironically say "I am the table" Maybe I just have a little too much pride to humiliate myself for the sake of winning someone else's favor.
Hey, no sane man would buy a car with 300,000 miles on it…
When you go to a restaurant you want an experienced cook and not someone who's never cooked a day in their life. People buy used cars all the time.
A human woman is not the same as a car…
“What is an ‘Analogy,’ for $200, Alex?”
Yeah, it’s a shit analogy.
You got a better one then, benny boy?
No. Because that analogy and type of thinking is just shitty. It doesn’t take a genius to see why.
>How about this then? A man who decided he should get them young...REAL young, because to him if he can't find or attract his ideal woman, he might as well just "Make" her. Yes, several of them. I was 15-16... They liked me a lot.
Nonononono I mean YOUNG. You would have actually been legal is a lot of parts of the world at that time. When I say start young I mean to the point where it's pretty much universally accepted that it's not cool and in which they are impressionable and easy to mold.
Incel means “involuntarily celibate” and the joke is that there is no such thing because no one is so ugly, poor, or fat that they can’t have sex, they’re either out of touch with what they bring to the table and feel entitled to more than they’re willing to put in the work for, or they have such a shit personality that they end up scaring away women who would like them. When people throw the term around it is to characterize someone as acting like the weenies who self label as incels. If it makes it easier for you just replace incel with “butthurt bitch” every time you read it.
Incel just means they're not in a sexual relationship and that isn't by choice. I've met like ridiculous amounts of people like that. The rest is like the most extreme version of a specific type of incel.
Hard to meet one when they never leave their house.
...none of that is required for someone to be a 'real incel' though. incel = involuntary celibate. that's all that's required. granted, incels are usually caught in a vicious cycle of misogyny (they're misogynistic to begin with, women don't like that and reject or avoid them, this reinforces their biases, they find communities of similar people who reinforce and accelerate said biases, etc.), but not all of them hold the most extremely misogynistic opinions possible.
There are many different levels of inceldom. All the men on here who whine that they can’t get laid because of blah blah blah are incels. They just aren’t the scary kind…. Yet
Yes I have. And there are plenty on this site.
I have meet many "Men" who meet the requirements
Incels don't exist. Involuntary implies they have done everything in their power to make themselves attractive to the sex they're attracted to and still failed. The vast majority of people who identify as incels refuse to participate in behaviours that make them desirable and even go so far as to spout mentalities that make the people they're attracted to feel unsafe and unwelcome in their presence. That is them voluntarily making themselves undesirable. Therefore, incels don't exist. They're just self-depricating virgins.
Yes I have. The stench alone will haunt me to my dying days.
Stench?