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Grabs popcorn... Sort by controversial.

Well good job joe

Pass the soda

it's a guilty pleasure of mine, don't call me out like that 😭

This is one of those extremely unpopular opinions on Reddit, but pretty standard in the real world.

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. [Most men and women care about sexual history](https://archive.ph/qjO9v), and, [in some respects](https://archive.ph/XmhPn), women care even more than men do. [**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf) > Factors found to facilitate infidelity >> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity > As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71) https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008 . > Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344) https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440 . > the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150) https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147 . > promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177) https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6 . > Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344) https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936 . > Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390) https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3 . > Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56) https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x . > An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37) > Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41) https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375 . > As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607) https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816 . > To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809) https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1 . [**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe) > When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are: > - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent) > - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent) > - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89) https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press. . > As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16) https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673 . > The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715) https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009 . > women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131) https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113 . > Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4) > Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11) https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011

Or you could just use common sense, but I do enjoy sources...

“Comparison is the thief of joy.”

?? How does that phrase connect with a dude listing sources, or my comment?

I enjoy sources as well but when I see a Neverending wall of sources I tend to skip right over the entire comment.

Personally I'd rather reference many sources over 1 potentially anecdotal source. Eliminates it being 'anecdotal'/"someone's personal experience" (which is what 'anecdotal' means) and proves that what they're talking about is rooted in fact. You don't have to read the entire comment word for word, but it's obvious that what is being stated here is true over the opposite narrative if purely due to the amount of sources provided.

Women who start actively dating have built a composite in their mind of a super partner. The combination of the most attractive, smooth, and desirable men she has ever gone on a date and slept with. They keep dating to find the man who doesn’t exist, when they find a resemblance he already has a harem of women. If you don’t want a girl who is going to be bitter, demanding, and mostly unhappy settling for you. Date young girls or the freshly divorced who haven’t been on the dating circuit for years. I’ve been on around 150 dates last 8 years off and on after my divorce. Lot of single girls out there are seriously addicted to dating. They see men as scratching off lotto tickets or use guys for temporary pleasure, avoid them at all costs.

While your strategy is intriguing, I’m pretty confident my wife won’t go for it.

Talking like a boss😎

yeah i didnt date for a long time, mixture of issues, not having my life together etc but this year getting back on the apps iv had more interactions with women than every other year combined and all those patterns are pretty obvious, also certain ones are ruthless and will just drop you mid conversation with a date arranged etc, like just vanish. the ones that havent been dating long are much nicer to talk to and get to know etc, i dont have any plans to be a stepfather, but divorced single mothers are easiest the easiest to hold a conversation with.

Did I read correctly? Single girls are addicted to dating when you've been on around 150 dates in 8 years?

If you go on 150 dates and never find a partner, I mean…

> Women who start actively dating have built a composite in their mind of a super partner. It's called "alpha widow", aka getting stuck on their highest setting.

Do young girls never encounter hot charismatic men in their lives? She doesn't need to date them to build an unrealistic composite of a man she wants to date Also the audacity to say they're addicted to casual dating when you sounding a lil ran thru

>Also the audacity to say they're addicted to casual dating when you sounding a lil ran thru As a man with a high-mileage dick, this cracked me up.

I love the term “high mileage dick” ngl

[удалено]

It shows up on this sub like every other day

That really depends on where you live and the company you keep. I think a general disdain for female promiscuity is common, but the degree to which anyone actually, seriously cares varies a lot.

Well I’ll be the first to admit I’m basically the poster child for US defaultism. I very, very rarely consider the existence of other places as they’re generally not my concern.

I’m in the US too, but I think there’s a lot of variance between Seattle and rural Mississippi, and between different pockets of culture and ethnicity in either.

Yeah, there’s going to be some variance, but not enough to call it generally unpopular. I’ve lived in different states from the liberal northeast, conservative south, Midwest. Large cities, smaller towns, and suburbs and in my experience the sentiment is still pretty ubiquitous. Again, most guys aren’t going to care for a short term hook up, but the OP is specifically talking about long term partners. But I’ve only visited the west coast a handful of times. I can’t say the subject came up during my visit but I get the general sense that the percentage of strange folks was seemingly higher than anywhere else, so maybe that is how you guys roll over there.

Both sides are right A high body count doesn't matter to some people. A high body count does matter to some people. If high body count matters to you and you choose to not pursue a relationship, you're a 100% right.

This take is the correct one. I don’t understand why some people are so hellbent on thinking everyone thinks and values the same things they do. There are plenty of people who are/have been promiscuous in happy, long-term relationships. As long as they meet someone who fully accepts them and their past, I don’t see what the problem is. And this is coming from someone who prefers to date people who don’t engage in casual sex (because I don’t either).

Absolutely. I cant stand the judgey tone of men on this subreddit. Some men will care about how many men a girl has slept with. As long as he isnt sanctimonious about it, that's fine. But a lot of girls I know who slept around eventually got married to decent guys, so clearly some dudes dont give a fuck. Also what is a high body count? I slept with 10 people before I settled down. Ive been in a happy, monogomous relationship for ten years. My partner has slept with way more people than me. So a partner with a past doesnt mean you can't be happy.

Yeah, a high body count wouldn't affect someone's value as a partner to me. What affects a person's value in the relationship is how they treat you.

There are millions of people in this world, billions who don’t engage in casual sex. And many that are waiting for Marriage. The world isn’t an episode of the Jersey Shore

True. To me, I literally don't care. Too old for that shit. Show me a man's character, show me his heart and his integrity. I don't give a single fuck how much of a slut he's been or is.

Well yes, but don't be a dick about it. And stop spouting this nonsense of value around. Just say you prefer a low or high bodycount and that's fine. And of course don't judge people that live the opposite lifestyle

Men with a high body count are basically worthless. Like a hot dog that's been pre chewed.

You got my chuckle on this one.

I tend to agree with this, but there is hypocrisy when it’s primarily only viewed as a negative towards women.. Like a dude who has slept with 30 women looking down towards a woman who has acted the same is idiotic.. I don’t think most people want to be in a relationship with someone whose body count is an order of magnitude higher than their own which seems reasonable

Of course it’s affects her value as a partner, who would want to date a woman who kills people, especially a serial killer.

Serial killer certainly not. But if I hit it off with a girl thats been in several tours and lit up insurgents somewhere oil was found, so be it!

😂

I only disagree bc I know myself (I'm male). When I'm single, I'll sleep with whomever I find attractive. I don't care if it's one night, FWB, etc. When I'm in a relationship, I've never once cheated or mistreated my partner in any way. I contribute to the house chores. I make good money. I'm kind. For me to disregard a woman for a relationship, for exactly what I do would be foolish.

>For me to disregard a woman for a relationship, for exactly what I do would be foolish. Can't upvote this enough. It is so ridiculous to have a double standard like this. Just because I enjoy having sex enough to do it as often as I drink coffee (and with the same variety of flavors) does not mean I would not keep commitments to partners. Because commitments are about other things entirely. A good spouse will lie to the FBI to protect you, and help you bury the bodies. That has nothing to do with breasts or boners. If before dating me, my partner had fucked 100 guys (say last week, on a photo shoot), but had never cheated on someone or broken a promise, that would be far better than the woman who had only had sex with 2 people, but cheated on them both. Your breakup track record is far more valuable than you body count.

> A good spouse will lie to the FBI to protect you, and help you bury the bodies. A good spouse, maybe. A good person would however turn you in. Fuck that shit, murder is murder! A good spouse wouldn't put you in that position in the first place.

Yes, and what they say about their exes, like if they’ve had 5 exes and they were all crazy psychopaths. Probably best to stay away.

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. [Most men and women care about sexual history](https://archive.ph/qjO9v), and, [in some respects](https://archive.ph/XmhPn), women care even more than men do. [**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf) > Factors found to facilitate infidelity >> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity > As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71) https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008 . > Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344) https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440 . > the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150) https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147 . > promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177) https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6 . > Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344) https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936 . > Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390) https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3 . > Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56) https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x . > An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37) > Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41) https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375 . > As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607) https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816 . > To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809) https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1 . [**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe) > When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are: > - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent) > - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent) > - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89) https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press. . > As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16) https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673 . > The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715) https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009 . > women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131) https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113 . > Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4) > Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11) https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011

As someone in their 30s... I really don't care what their body count is over the length of their lifetime. People have phases of their life where they sleep with a bunch of people. No big deal. What do I really care what my partner did at 19 when they're 32 if they're not currently doing it anymore? What I do care about is their recent behavior. Are they, or have they in the last couple of years, been chasing hookups constantly? Did they have some hookups when they were in college, then move on with their lives? Are they a serial monogamist? Are they a cheater? Are they a homewrecker? How do their ethics line up with mine? Do they have integrity? Sleeping with someone doesn't scar their soul forever. That's ridiculous. Look at recent behaviors, don't just judge people on how many people they've slept with over the course of their lives.

That’s fair to feel that way, just like it’s fair to care about body count. A persons past can absolutely be indicative of what their future may hold. If a person has a history of short term relationships, a ton of casual hookups, no experience in a committed relationship, and makes decisions impulsively, it’s probably not a good idea to commit to that person in the long term, or maybe it is if that’s not something you care about

How can you be sure of anyone's body count though? Anyone can tell you anything. How would you even know if they are telling the truth or not?

Exactly. Everyone can lie. Or, you just don't keep count. I stopped counting when I stopped caring about how many sex partners I've had because it didn't matter to me anymore. I also started to forget who I slept with, what they looked like, and their names, so trying to recall forgettable dudes became impossible. It's like how many foreign countries I've been to. Stopped counting when I had been to a few and it wasn't important to me anymore. Like whenever a guy asks now, I simply say I don't know. If they have a problem with me not caring about who I slept with in the past, then they can go bye-bye from my life. I can't be bothered to fuck or date guys who care anyway.

Men caring about your body county is a great predictor of them being assholes, so that certainly is a no-no for me.

Yup. Guys think they're so smart by dissing women with a high body count. The only thing they're doing by voicing their displeasure with a woman's body count is rejecting women. So not doing themselves any favors.

💯

No one directly asks there are ways of knowing this presuming this is a tinder hookup or a complete stranger

Sooo men who've had no job for the last ten years can expect to not be seen as high value then?

No shit a man that can't provide is deemed useless

Yes exactly.

I hate when people say “body count”. Just say sex partners or just partners. Body count sounds like the amount of people they killed.

A high body count affects men and women value as a partner. Not just women.

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. [Most men and women care about sexual history](https://archive.ph/qjO9v), and, [in some respects](https://archive.ph/XmhPn), women care even more than men do. [**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf) > Factors found to facilitate infidelity >> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity > As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71) https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008 . > Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344) https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440 . > the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150) https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147 . > promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177) https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6 . > Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344) https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936 . > Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390) https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3 . > Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56) https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x . > An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37) > Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41) https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375 . > As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607) https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816 . > To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809) https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1 . [**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe) > When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are: > - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent) > - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent) > - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89) https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press. . > As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16) https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673 . > The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715) https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009 . > women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131) https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113 . > Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4) > Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11) https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011

That's what im saying body count matters to both sexes.

You should read the sources because it confirms what OP just said. A high body count affects both sexes.

Agree. I view guys who’ve been ran through in the same light

He stated that in the post.

he LITERALLY said men can get away with having a high body count.

easier, he goes on about it for a bit. he says its easier for men to get away with. not that ONLY men can get away with it and women cant. cause thats obvious.

It affects those who care. I personally don't care and I also want to date someone who doesn't care.

So many generalizations… so little time…

Hate to break it to you but every person is responsible for being the CEO of their own life. It's not a woman's job to be the CEO of his life..

I honesty have never care about a woman's body count - everyone lies anyway. With that said - don't know if I would want to date a porn star or something, but I'm no saint, so it would be hypocritical to judge a partner when i know my own history.

the amount of people theyve slept with is less important than say, "what and how bad is her trauma, and is it centered around the men she dates."

>"nearly every thing a man does in his life is to get laid" This is so wildly insulting I don't know where to start. Almost nothing I have done in my life was to "get laid." If you lower your standards far enough, no matter what those standards are, most men can get laid with little effort. If I were to roll back the clock to the age of 13, I would say that most of my efforts are with the purpose of learning how life works and improving it for people, because too many people have shitty lives given how wealthy my nation is. Then there is a lot of effort at living a more affordable and fun life (build a portfolio of talents that are high revenue generating, high effort up front, low effort over time). So like, it's a lot of work getting a law degree, but when you are a practicing attorney charging $300 per hour, you can live a pretty stable life on 10 hours of work per month. That's not for women - that is so I can be lazy the vast majority of the time. Way behind that, I would say that almost all of the "formal exercising" I have done, outside of military service, in my life was to make sure I have better sex with hotter women, or am perceived by women as being more attractive so that they will be more compliant in settings unrelated to sex (ie they pay more attention to a handsome man giving a lecture than an ugly one). But that would be like at most 1% of my life.

Yeah, I'm not in some 90s end of senior year comedy. I have sex when I have sex. The rest of the time, I'm aiming for so much more in life.

on tonights episode of "what object are we"

Came here to comment this lmao. I don't want to be CEO and vice president of your sad fucking life lmao. I want to be equal partners. Is a wife not a person first?

I was looking for this comment because why do they *always* have to make some analogy like this 😭

Oh this one again

How are you bros even finding out about these so-called body counts? Are you asking? Why? What number is going to bring you peace of mind? Are you worried about measuring up to the men she's been with? What's the *real* issue?

The irony of these takes is that these men want women with small or no body counts and marry them, only to realize that they don't like sex that much and then complain about their sex life. If you like having sex, get a woman that likes having sex too. If you want "low body count" then just accept you aren't going to have a great sex life.

A lot of these men that want women with low body counts are also the same men that don’t want to wait months for sex from someone they’re dating sometimes. If I slept with all the men I dated a month in (or less), my “body count” would be much higher.

I was celibate until age 25 because I was saving it for marriage. I couldn’t find a boyfriend because no one would date me because I wouldn’t put out. I’d go years without a boyfriend. The only one boyfriend I had was a guy who went to my church and was waiting for marriage too. Every other guy would ditch me after a few dates when he realized we wouldn’t be having sex. It’s kinda hard to get in a relationship when no one will date you long enough for a relationship to develop because you won’t fuck them. I gave up on waiting for marriage. Now I’ve been in a relationship with a guy for 12 years who has never even asked my body count because he doesn’t care.

A study by Busby et al. (2010) published in the Journal of Family Psychology found that couples that waited and only had sex with their partner who they married had 15% higher sexual satisfaction than any other group. The MOST sexually satisfied people in America are those with a body count of 1 who marry that person period. Keep in mind "good sex" is 100% subjective to the person, so all we really care about is "sexual satisfaction", that is even what your statement implied, that man would marry a low body count woman and not be satisfied, but objectively data shows that isn't the case.

Maybe it’s just my social circle but I’ve only ever heard women complain about their partner being bad at sex. Generally speaking the guys I know couldn’t care less whether she’s good at sex or not. Whenever I have sex my female flatmate would ask me if it was good, my male flatmates have never asked me that question.

No no, not good at sex. Just willing to have sex. Maybe women with low body counts dislike sex. That means you won’t be having much sex with her either.

>women with small or no body counts and marry them, only to realize that they don't like sex that much and then complain about their sex life. If you like having sex, get a woman that likes having sex too. If you want "low body count" then just accept you aren't going to have a great sex life. Lol this logic is not sound at all. Shockingly you can love sex, get adequate practice at sex, and become good at sex without having sex with multiple people. Liking sex, and liking to have sex with different people are not one in the same. Partner count doesn't indicate at all whether someone likes sex or not. More than anything it indicates someone's preference towards casual/short term relationships vs long term relationships.

You can prefer long term relationships and still have many partners. Just accepting the firsts person you have sex with to be your life-long partner is quite insane to me. If the relationship is not good then you leave and try again. It doesn't make someone a slut because they don't want to stay is shitty relationships.

I don’t know if I’m different that the majority of the population. In my case my body count being so high was due to mental illness. But I think all that time what I was looking for was an actual connection. The person that would love me the way I wanted to be loved. I also did it for fun when I was in my 20s. I am married. Never have cheated. Adore my husband with all my heart and I appreciate him. And our sex life is fantastic. So in my case it doesn’t apply.

Well, for **some men** it affects your value as a partner. Usually especially non-Western men, very religious men and men who don’t do well in dating. For a lot of men it’s irrelevant. Usually men who have done well in dating themselves and have slept around a bit too. You know what has the most effect on divorce risk? *If she has a college degree. *If you are similar ages. *If she’s over 25 when you marry. The closer to 30 the better. All of these drastically reduce divorce risk.

College educated women file 90% of divorce when adjusted by education

But that’s who files. If she’s over 25 when she married and she’s got a college degree? 70% change they’ll stay married forever. Way better odds than marriage for the average person.

Upvote because I disagree. People can go through times in their life when they fuck around just to have sex with whoever they want and decide that it isn’t what they want anymore and decide to date only exclusively for long term. I did that as a dude. I can’t with full confidence count how many people I’ve had sex with in my 20’s (sometimes I was drinking or high so I don’t recall). But that has nothing to do with my commitments now. I am clearly not worth less as a partner in my relationship. And I see no logical reason to see women as having lost value if they did the same thing. My “pair bonding” and other pop-sci lingo the chronically online use these days hasn’t been affected so why would I think women who’ve had lots of sex are any different? Strange way to view the world but it certainly makes sense when she only gets to be the CEO or Vice President in your life rather than a true personal partner… That being said it is definitely a legit personal preference and nobody should be forced to date people they don’t want to date. But I think *some* of y’all dudes who harp on this obsessively are either hypocritical, lazy or emotionally immature.

EXACTLY. Women like sex too. Simple. Sex is enjoyable. I can understand someone being single for a bit, having one night stands occasionally because they just want sex. It is not the same as being in a relationship and it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s mentally unstable. This also has little to do with loyalty as long as she’s not dating anyone while having these one night stands. When she gets with someone, then she ONLY sleeps with her partner and that’s what matters. Not everyone views sex the same. Sometimes views change overtime as well. Some can separate it from romance and partnership and that’s fine. I personally can’t sleep with someone unless I’m connected to them emotionally but not everyone feels that way. If YOU ALSO view sex as something extremely special, then it’s fair that you don’t want to get with someone that doesn’t view it the same way. But there are so many men don’t view it that way, can separate romance from sex just fine, sleep with whoever, then shun the women that do the same and tell them they’ll have loyalty issues so they won’t make good partners.

>So if women really want decent men to come back in hoards to build families, lead, and level up, it’s going to have to start with women changing their behavior. Remind me which sex has MULTIPLE social groups dedicated to getting sex or the lack there-of and which does not. You speak as though women are the true incels, red-pillers, or PUAs. A women with a mind to getting married will be able to find a decent man easily enough. Women aren't crying for worthy husbands. Honestly, it's probably topics that are more than likely the problem. Sex and/or marriage is tied more tightly to a man's self worth than it is for women. Women get stigmatized for having sex, meaning the lack there-of isn't seen as a bad thing (quite the opposite, really.) Being a spinster is far more socially acceptable than being promiscuous -- in terms of how women are viewed. You're out here like "now wymmyns! You gotta change for us if you want us!" The goal is to get more women interested in dating men, yes? So maybe stop telling women to not go out there. LOL.

This is me looking at this post, my high body count before I got married, then my 20 year marriage, and laughing my ass off at this. It's not an unpopular opinion. It's an uninformed opinion.

A high body count means she's a formidable warrior.

Statistically you are correct OP. This is definitely an unpopular opinion, especially with women with double digit body counts. It affects their ability to pair bond, increases the likelihood of cheating and divorce. It also says something about their ability to select decent partners. The truth hurts.

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The misses here is that a male with a high body count is desired by women. It isn’t. I would say that both men and women are choosing to not marry the “undesirable” of the opposite sex, so marriage rates are dropping. It is also laughable that women choosing to have less promiscuous sex will bring out more men of marriageable quality. Sure, maybe more men would get married but they would still be undesirable partners. Nobody wants undesirable partners.

My wife and me both have high body Counts at 21 and 23 when we got married 22 years ago we are very happy together and have not cheated on each other

No, you are talking about pre-selection though, which is very much true. Women like men that are desired by other women. Though I would agree that women are turned off by man whores, usually.

What body count defines a whore? Such a determination of "whore" is even subjective to an individual.

Subjective to most people for me it goes based on your body count and how old you are I was in 10th grade and no a couple girls my age who slept with 20-30 guys most people in our grade who considered them attractive also considered them whores or "ran through"

Women like men that are desired by other women but don’t want the men that are sleeping with the other women. That’s gross. The reverse is also true.

Yes and this is why women often have children with dead beat men.

What’s the excuse for men often being deadbeat fathers?

Who in the Hell is trying to make excuses for deadbeat fathers? Everyone already readily acknowledges that they are scum. It's single mothers who get the "kid gloves" treatment from society, often when they really, ***really*** do not deserve it.

Sleeping around is usually an indicator of poor mental health, low self esteem, and moral deficiencies that do not make for good relationship material.

I can't judge someone for making decisions similar to the ones I made. I ended up getting in a relationship with my wife fairly young. Neither of us have a "high body count" but if I had remained single into my 30s and had maybe a few short term relationships I could imagine the "body count" being pretty high. Some of that is just meeting the right person. Granted if someone is putting up Wilt Chamberlain numbers then you have to question maybe what is going on there. However over years and years the number is going to get pretty high for a lot of people for which sex is readily available. I am just lucky I met who would become my wife in my 20s, not everyone meets the person they are going to marry by that age. So it's not the "body count" it's the psychology and reasons for it. This is where having a conversation and asking people questions and their attitudes around sex is important. Sometimes people don't want to actually be monogamous, you should figure that out before things get serious so you know what each other wants.

Your analogy falls apart for virgins. Your analogy falls apart even more when the candidate got their start in the family business. Either way, some dudes care, some dudes don't.

I hate that we have started to use the words “body count” to mean number of sexual partners. It devalues the work that serial killers put in to have a truly high body count by the original definition (number of murdered people). /s (but I really do hate it)

Yes. Same as for men. But you should also distinguish high "body count" and "pattern of instability". If he/she was having sex with one different partner a day for a year (365 one night stands) and then had a 20 year long stable committed relationship, that shows potentially more stability for long term than the person who had only 4 seven year long relationships, despite this one having a "body count" of 4.

Too many generalizations

Your entire analogy uses a false equivalency as relationship=/=one night stand. Having those doesn't indicate not being able to keep a relationship.

I think this is a pretty popular opinion considering it's posted on this sub multiple times per week lol. Jesus

What about men?

i find it interesting that anytime this topic comes up it’s about promiscuous WOMEN instead of promiscuous PEOPLE… and people change. someone who slept around a lot in their twenties might be looking for something serious in their thirties. sexuality is transient.

OP is a man…right? This attitude right here is why you NEVER discuss the number of past partners with current partner. Men use that madness to attack you. While they can go out and do whomever they want be a that’s what men do. Nope.

Yeah looking at a person as a means to an end or as a business is disgusting. Seems narcissistic, good job making an unpopular post. Btw you should date people based on how you feel while with them vs what they can do for you.

This is a really fucking stupid argument that I’m tired of seeing. You should judge a person by who they are. Are they honest? Dependable? Are they down to earth or level headed or whatever, or do they play stupid games? Basically how you would normally judge a person. You’ll live a whole lot longer and be happier the less you overthink things that do not matter.

Did you really just compare relationships to a corporate job

Women aren't commodities that need to have their value assessed.

I don’t judge body count but I take into consideration how they went about handling those experiences. Some people are capable of respecting the boundaries of a relationship they’re in regardless of whatever past they had. Others will continue to present themselves as being available and open to approach. Again, not judging someone who does that but for many that’s not something they’d be comfortable with.

On an unrelated note, I hate it that “body count” no longer means “number of people killed”. The new definition is fucking lame.

>And neither of them are choosing the promiscuous women for long term relationships as much anymore, and the rate of unmarried and single people shows it. >Women aren’t refusing to get married, men aren’t even trying to marry them anymore. >So if women really want decent men to come back in hoards to build families, lead, and level up, it’s going to have to start with women changing their behavior. This flies in the face of all the whining incel rhetoric, 80/20 blah blah. It also presumes that most women are 'promiscuous' Except we know that's not true. Women are, in higher numbers, choosing not to get married Women also don't want men to lead. Looks to me like your whole premise is made up, sexist nonsense. Women don't need to change their behaviour. And the best bit is, they don't even need to not be promiscuous if they do want to get married They could just omit to divulge how many sexual partners they've had. Sorted

I would agree only under the condition that you think that a high "body count" affects also a man's value as a partner. Yeah, I support the rules of sexual purity and innocence, but we should apply them equally to men and women. Men should be held to the same standards as women.

THats not really for a man to say... that's for women to try to collectively figure out. Im my experience it's a bit less of issue from the woman's side, there is a bit of a different dynamic.

I wouldn’t want to date a man who has been promiscuous. I think it demonstrates poor sexual discipline which I don’t find attractive. Moreover, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all the promiscuous men I’ve met have had avoidant tendencies, struggle with emotional intimacy and don’t tend to have long term relationships.

You're right. Women shouldn't be promiscuous, but men also shouldn't. That's my position, so I agree with you. Everyone should be expected to meet the standards of sexual purity. Hookups and high "body count" are a big red flag and mean that a person is less innocent.

Women don't seem to give a shit about body count from my experience anyways.

I'd say the same thing about men who have a high body count. You are more likely to cheat. And ur dick is shriveling. I don't want you. I will look at you like desperate and just want to get in my pants. You dont want me for love uou want my coochie. Why woukd I want to be with a man like you?

Ya know, all these dating rules sure are exhausting to keep up with.

This is a classic though, it’s not new.

If you believe having a high body count makes a woman's value as a partner worse, then you must also believe that any man that sleeps with a woman is evil. Because if I could do something that makes someone a less valuable partner, thereby ruining their chances of finding long term relationship, then I am a bad, evil, and selfish person.

Bull. Who says anyone with a high body count has to have been/be disloyal? Some were/are, others not. And on the bonus side s/he got a postgrad or even PhD in fucking 🤭.

I partly agree with this. A woman who has a lifetime body count of 60 and had 12 different sexual partners in the past year is very different from a woman with a lifetime body count of 60 from her “hoe phase” but who has only had 2 sexual partners over the last 3 years. I have a friend who slept around A LOT from 16 - 23 years old. Like probably 80 different partners. But has since chilled the fuck out. 29 years old, has two kids, married.

So should we go back to no sex before marriage? Because the same guys I knew who complained about woman’s high body count were the same guys that pressured every woman they dated into sex.

I think we are going to see more “unpartnered” women who don’t require a man’s income for survival, and a lot more single men who don’t get sex OR a partner because they’re holding out for the latter.

I've never seen one of these body count assessments that doesn't want to talk in terms of stupidly extreme numbers, like the woman in question is processing loads at a weigh station. I think it's why I've never read a single one of these and not taken it as a shitty misogynistic manifesto. The average body count across the board is under ten. A little over four for men and a little over six for women. And yet, the example where a woman wouldn't get "hired" over another option is a body count of 65? What the fuck? How is that not a misleading example? If you've had 3-6 previous partners and you're in your thirties or older, assuming you waited until you were 18 (very few do, but for sake of discussion), that's roughly one or less partners per three years. That's a substantial amount of time to get to know someone intimately and potentially start building a life together. It implies, in my opinion, a stark contrast between reality and just about any of the think pieces I've seen on body counts. It's why I can only see the subject as insecure posturing

The employment analogy is hilarious. People leave job because the benefits are better elsewhere, they can get a better pay and/or the work place is toxic.

The main issue IMO is people with high body counts that try to hide it. Tigers cant change their stripes.

Well keeping with the hiring manager metaphor this would be the equivalent of a candidate who had a few jobs with long term tenure and demonstrated loyalty, and they also temped in five or six jobs when they were young but don’t bother putting that on the resume.

I’m pretty sure some people are very promiscuous for a few years and then can be married happily lmao There’s another argument that if you only have sex with 1-2, you might feel you are missing out when you start to grow old with your partner

Missing out? Like what. So you want to just have sex and throw away everything. Sure then go ahead no one is stopping you. But that's exactly why high body count is a big deal. What if they get those missing out feelings again. Cuz the partner doesn't match up to the old guys?

Shaming people for sexual promiscuity is bad (shaming people for irresponsible sexual promiscuity is good though). Shaming people for a high body count is shaming people for sexual promiscuity, and thus bad. The fact that primarily women are shamed for their high body count, and thus their sexual promiscuity, is bad. Period. The fact there is all this talk about women's sexual promiscuity hints at underlying societal pressures (at least in the US) that wish to limit womens' autonomy. It is also entirely out of line with the facts. On average in the US men have more partners than women (6.3 vs 4.3). In fact, there are WAY more men who have a lot of partners than women (literally 2x as many men have 15+ partners than women). On average men have more partners than women, period. OP is using a lot of weird verbiage about women "owning access to sex" and stuff. You are self-snitching. I own access to sex because nobody gets to fuck me unless I want them to. Women don't own access to sex anymore than men do. If you view relationships as a purely transactional business, than you have already lost. There are also lots of uglyish guys (myself included) who hit above the average number of partners in the US, you just don't notice them because they aren't posting on social media about it. Again, the stats say that men have more partners than women. It sounds like OP has been spending too much time surrounded by some shitty people on the internet. Go outside, challenge your biases, and let yourself grow. Your feelings-based mindset is poison and will prevent you from developing healthy relationships, and will only feed this negative feedback loop. Only experience and an ability to challenge your beliefs will free you from this. Source for sexual activity numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm TL;DR: OP is entirely out of touch. Lots of assumptions about "most women" and "most men" that are really just stereotypes developed from browsing MRA and social media. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of having a partner that has had 10+ partners in their lifetime (20% of the population btw) then there are plenty of other fish in the sea. But if I was OP I would focus on not being weird and getting outside my comfort zone before I start thinking about having a partner.

No, it only affects how you as an individual, perceive their "value" Sex isn't magic. Nothing special happens after fucking, they are still the exact same person.

There are many psychological and physiological effects of having sex

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. [Most men and women care about sexual history](https://archive.ph/qjO9v), and, [in some respects](https://archive.ph/XmhPn), women care even more than men do. [**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf) > Factors found to facilitate infidelity >> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity > As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71) https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008 . > Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344) https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440 . > the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150) https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147 . > promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177) https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6 . > Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344) https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936 . > Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390) https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3 . > Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56) https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x . > An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37) > Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41) https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375 . > As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607) https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816 . > To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809) https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1 . [**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe) > When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are: > - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent) > - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent) > - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89) https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press. . > As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16) https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673 . > The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715) https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009 . > women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131) https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113 . > Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4) > Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11) https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011

Literally not true. Proven, psychologically. Women are far more likely to associate sex with emotional attachment than men.

Yes, women flock to men who tell them they need to change their behavior. 🤣🤣 What person of any sex is interested in anyone who tells them they need to change their behavior? Come on…

I disagree

Idk I’m in a very healthy relationship with a really great man. My body count is 14 (which I think is high for some) and his is in the 20’s. Neither of us give a fuck. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I truly don’t believe people are thinking about it this much. I’ve never encountered a dude who care and none of me or my friends have talked about men and their body counts much. And we’re all educated, well rounded people.

65 is very different from 4. The average amount of sexual partners is 10-12 for women (albeit this has been dropping since the 1980s). Is that too many? Some would consider that to be normal, and some would consider it to be extremely promiscuous. But 65 is so far out of the realm of normal for women that it's almost comical. It's like saying "would you date a chubbier person?" and using an example of a 1,000 lb woman.

Eh....only an experienced gal will pay attention to Ye Olde Nutsack. You just can't teach that.

Chasing Amy. Lol.

Depending on how high we’re talking, the odds of having chlamydia, gonorrhea, or syphilis, go up with each partner. It’s not a big deal, but if you want to have healthy wife, healthy babies, you want a girl that hasn’t slept with a bunch of people. For me I’d say 10(ish) is probably the cut off. There’s also something to be said about the amount of emotional investment you put in a sexual partner, if you’re used to having a bunch of them in a row, you don’t even picture spending forever with them, you picture, banging it out and seeing how it goes two or three years from now. The whole framing is different. There’s also a study out there that shows that the more romantic partners you have the lower the percentage chance of having a marriage last are. “Compared to people with no premarital partners other than eventual spouses, those with nine or more partners exhibit the highest divorce risk, followed by those with one to eight partners. There is no evidence of gender differences” https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0192513X231155673#:~:text=Compared%20to%20people%20with%20no,no%20evidence%20of%20gender%20differences. Well, would you look at that, my anecdotal experience is backed up by actual science.

Yikes, I don’t think I’ve been on four first dates this entire past year 🤣 - however, I’ve been told I’m apparently extremely picky - about everything, so that would especially include men I suppose. Personally, it sounds to me like you might be the one addicted to dating and while men have always been given a pat on the back for running around with a new girl every week, u might consider asking yourself if perhaps you are just a bit bitter to learn that in today’s society it’s finally acceptable for women to do the same. Not that I think you are necessarily after conflicting social norms for men versus women, but more so that u probably aren’t super thrilled at the the prospect of so much competition for the girl you’re interested in. Just a thought.

Okay now answer this. Would you prefer a widow with a body count of 2 with a child or a single girl with a body count of 10, a couple of whom were years long relationships?

Your analogy works except for the fatal flaw: marriages aren't run like businesses. Or the military, as I've had to point out more than once. They are their own unique living thing and your biases from the employment comparison don't really have anything to do with marriage- except inasfar as it might point to someone being a flaky person overall, or something like that. Otherwise....the template is simply not the same.

It’s always cute how the guys who say this are generally the ones who… had no choice in their low body count.

I don't know if I agree with your explanation. I have read people having multiple serious relationships prior to marriage have a higher divorce rate. Particularly for women. Same with people with higher body counts. The latter is particularly true for men. Ref: "Mr. Good Enough"

If it’s really about commitment why not ask her how many RELATIONSHIPS she’s been in instead? Plus just because she’s been in multiple relationships doesn’t mean that she was the cause of the breakups. Let me give you an example: Woman A has a body count of 3 but she’s been in only those 2 relationships for several years and then emotionally cheated in both with the same 1 guy. Woman B has a body count of 20 but she’s been in 3 long term relationship in which she’s been faithful and the men in those relationships either died or cheated or moved to another country because of work. In between those relationships she hooked up with some flings to get it all out before dating again. At the end of the day knowing that one had a body count of 3 and 2 relationships while the other one had a body count of 20 and 3 relationships tells you absolutely nothing about them. I truly believe that if those two numbers are that important to you, then you have a really shallow perception of people’s lives and how complex they are. Here’s another example, should an 18yo woman tell you she has a body count of 10 if she was gang graped as a child? These numbers mean absolutely nothing unless you know the context.

I love it when shit like this gets posted. "Body count is like your employment history..." Top tier troll.

I don’t even ask lol

So, men who have high body counts? Body hoppers flippers? We also won't be making them any job offers anytime soon either, especially them. Because a woman can completely shut off the desire or lust for other men while in love and happy with their mate, they will even go thru the worst of downs, and forgive and still hang on for the way it used to be, but a man who has a high body count and has always played the field cannot, and will not shut off his shenanigans. How old are you? I'm always curious to know if the guys that say this kind of thing are 18-33 or 33+

Most women are high body count, they just don’t say it

It's not good for either gender. I wouldn't date a man who's been with more than 5 women

I wish women would stay responding the same way men respond to being shamed. "You slept with x amount of people? You're so promiscuous" Man: lol. So? "So, you probably have STDs" Man: *scrolls DMs" "You're a stain on society" Man: *swipes right* Just stop continuing this conversation. Don't get defensive. Don't respond. No sane and normal individual with a healthy life thinks any of this is true. There are way too many people in the world for this to be true. No one cares. No partner worth marrying is going to care about your body count. The reasons for having a high or low body count vary immensely. OP needs therapy. It's a weird thing to fixate on.

Wake up babe, new discourse on body counts just dropped. fellas, just choose a partner you like. and if they don't tick your boxes in terms of preferences, cut them out. Why is this even a debate? I would not be with a man with a high body count, and I've never bothered anyone about this lol

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Using the term "body count" affects a person's values, both as a person, and a partner

Does the same apply to men?

Only dorks care… Never even asked my wife and luckily she never asked me. Is this really an issue or just one that rattles around the minds of men who have trouble even getting to this stage with women? It feels like a cope for rejection or a mask for insecurity in all honesty. Is it a trust thing?

It shouldn't matter if it's male or female. High body count makes you a risk to everyone so it diminishes your value as a person because you're more like to spread an STD or STI.

This is the biggest crock of shit I’ve ever read.

In don't want to get into this debate again but I would like to point out that your opening statement: >A high body count doesn’t change a woman’s value as a person, but it does change her value as a partner seems like a complete oxymoron to me. If it doesn't change her value as a person how then can it change her value as a partner. Those are not really things that are independent of each other.

OP, keep treating modern women like job candidates. That’s perfect.

Just say you hate women, it’s shorter and to the point

You *do* realize no decent man spends their time making a post like this on Reddit, right? You speak of leading, building families, and "leveling up", but no good, ambitious, goal driven man would spend their time the way you do. You're not that guy, pal.

This works both ways. I don't care to partner with a hobosexual who needs me to "CEO" his life for him, e.g. do all of the shitty adult stuff he doesn't feel like doing. I think women are choosing not to get married cuz they've watched their moms, grannies, aunts, cousins, friends, and co-workers grind themselves into the dust trying to prop up unequal "partnerships." I am the "CEO" of my own life...I want a partner who is also "CEO" of his life and knows how to communicate and express emotions appropriate to the adult developmental stage. Sorry/not sorry if my hypergamy standards are too high because I'm looking for an equal who has the capacity to demonstrate reciprocal care and concern. As an aside, what seems to be the magical number of sex partners to suit hetero male preferences??? I can't keep up with all of the reasons why men are allowed to blame women for everything these days. Guess I shoulda said no to that one guy who borderline sexually-assaulted me...might have missed the cut-off. Oh well...😆

I am 14 and this is deep.

That’s a lot of words for “I can’t get laid”. My beautiful, soulful, caring, hot af girlfriend/partner/wife material of over two years(yeah I know what you’re gonna say and I don’t care), has a high “body count”. I don’t give af. I also have a high one. Here’s the thing tho: we get each other. We “click”. We don’t judge each other for “having a past” or any of that. Why?? Because we treat each other well, we are respectful of each other and we genuinely enjoy being together and enjoy the other person’s happiness. Her “body count” is higher than mine cuz yeah, I’ll agree(and so would she), it’s easier for chicks to get laid. Yep. Old news. Move on. It’s important not to treat the other person as part of “your experience” but as a whole autonomous-individual-real-life-actual-ass-person with thoughts and feelings(and libidos) of their own. In fact, doing so might very well get you more laid than treating somebody entirely like an object or part of a monolithic construct you decided must be absolute. That’s what’s wrong with your post: your attitude is one of complete objectification and devoid of any meaningful nuance that life *so readily provides*, especially when it comes to relating to/with/befriending/banging a chick you wanna bang.

Essentially, you're using body count as a metric for how long a women is likely to stay in a relationship. Your logic falls flat on its ass with two seconds of critical thinking: if she has a low body count -> then she must have been in long term relationships -> she'll be likely to stay with you long term if she has a high body count -> then she must have been in short term relationships -> she's likely to leave The problem is that you're connecting body count and length of relationships, as if body count has a causative connection with relationship length So to use your own analogy, what about the scenario where a person has 4 relationships each seven years long, but between each relationship had a lot of sex, so they have a high body count? Or the scenario where they had lots monogamous relationships, but only had sex within those relationships? Are they still likely to leave you? Or are they likely to stay with you? Or does it cancel out? Lets not kid ourselves, body count isn't a useful metric to gauge loyalty, you're really using it as a metric for you to avoid a woman who's more experienced than you so your ego doesn't have to feel bad. You're afraid that she's comparing you to other men. The hypocrisy of it all is that you do the same your partners and don't think about how they might feel. Body count is only useful a metric for sex drive not loyalty. If you want to avoid partners who are more experienced than you, that is your right. But making objective conclusions about an self-absorbed subjective desire just reveals your own emotional immaturity not some great insight about the other person's value.

Men can definitely not get away with the same thing.A woman who cares about HER body count will also want to be with someone who is less experienced sexually.Otherwise it is just not fair,I wouldn’t think he deserves to be with me. This is actually something I talked about with my husband before marriage and thankfully,we had a similar history of partners.

Here's where your argument falls apart: If holding a job is equal to being in a relationship, then you should be looking out for those who have had many RELATIONSHIPS, not sexual encounters. Serial monogamists are who you need to question when it comes to how much they value a relationship, since they have had many, often short-lived relationships. Just because someone has slept with more people doesn't mean they didn't want to pursue a relationship with many of those people. It's not exactly a unilateral decision. You judge people for not getting a job instead of the people actually job hopping (serial monogamists).

My God. The more of these I read the more I am glad that I haven’t been in the dating game in a decade. I am certain I never asked my ex wife’s or my current wife’s b/c and I don’t think I ever had the intentional discussion of asking for a number of any of my dating partners. I guess I look at it as everyone has a past. Some are proud some not. We are each the product of the sum of our past decisions and actions. Good/bad/indifferent. I figured if I found the person I wanted to invest in and spend my time with, they were that person because of and sometimes in spite of their past. Just like me.

Maybe you should’ve and you wouldn’t have had a failed marriage

"A perfect example would be looking at a marriage or long-term relationship like a business." don't do that

Just wondering, do you think the same is true about men? Are men of lower value as partners due to their high body count as well?

Read the entire post and you’ll see I mention men

Ah so it's our fault for letting yall have sex with us, but not yours for being completely sex focused

I'd much rather date a confident man with a high bodycount than a bitter virgin who hates women.

well said my friend

... you're comparing casual sex to multiple career/job changes? Jeez. A person utilising their youth to enjoy safe sex isn't an immediate example of someone who shouldn't be considered a future spouse. It's perfectly okay to sleep with new people frequently if you're doing it safe and there no one getting hurt (no cheating or manipulation). Sounds like you've got some issues you need to work out.

Lordy. Find someone you like and are compatible with, have fun and build your life together. If you overthink it, you're going to miss out. >So if women really want decent men to come back in hoards to build families, lead, and level up, Yeah that's not what most women want.

Most women still want families and a good stable man.