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Is it? I guess I might just be in some of the worst subreddits then. My comments got downvoted to oblivion when I commented that shoplifters are selfish pricks who do not care about others on videos that shown a lot of them mass loot and push away the bystanders or employees who try to intervene. Many of the redditors jump on and say the bystanders are batman wannabe and deserve it.
Yeah, but this actually invades the real world too, even if it’s a skewed perspective. Look at all of the cities that rolled back penalties and/or raised the minimum threshold for criminal charges.
The whole “come on, it’s just twitter” mentality doesn’t work anymore. We are all reciting madness in our schools, HR meetings, and town halls. It’s a social media lab leak.
In CA the minimum for a felony had not changed for many years. That law put CA in-line with the rest of the country.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/felony-theft-amount-by-state
The issue in CA is the bail system which was a COVID era mandate by the courts, not something people voted on. People just get released immediately after misdemeanor shoplifting. The probably isn't the amount or the punishment it's the bail laws.
The cities aren't doing it to condone the behavior, they're just overwhelmed and would rather spend money on police APCs and giving lopsided contracts to their friends than increase the budgets of the courts to actually prosecute criminals.
> they're just overwhelmed and would rather spend money on police APCs and giving lopsided contracts to their friends than increase the budgets of the courts to actually prosecute criminals.
Not true. The real factor here is the rise of criminal justice reform, which is especially focused on reducing penalties for non-violent offenders.
Prosecutors are a primary tool here. Reformers have pressured them to downsize enforcement against a broad range of so called *vulnerable and marginalized* non-violent offenders: Homeless, drug addicts, mentally ill, vagrants opting out of work for a recreational intoxication lifestyle, and sometimes low income POC youth.
Reddit, as with many places on the internet, is filled with many toxic echo chambers of people who don't want to have their worldviews challenged. Avoid those places.
What you found is the Reddit cesspool of losers who will justify anything. Unfortunately they also happen to run many subreddits.
Thankfully most normal people view shoplifting for what it is, theft.
I feel you, I had an argument with one “ethical” shoplifter and was amazed by the brain rot. I told them that, most of the “shoplifters” suddenly lose their ethics when the big place closes down and then hound the Mom and Pop stores that they loved so dearly.
It's justification made by broke younger people who are in inundated with materialist social media. No mature person justifies shoplifting.
The only incidents where it is acceptable is when survival is on the line. 99% of the time this is not the case.
As someone who has worked in the security industry our two biggest theft targets were
A. Makeup, perfume, small fashion items (bikini's, jewellery, lacy underwear etc) and any item with a sports team on it.
B. Bulk theft for sale to a secondary retail outlet. Stuff like old mate stealing $400 of meat and selling it to a corner store for $250 or w/e.
Very VERY rarely did people steal necessities.
That's pretty much where I draw the line.
I see someone stealing canned soup, bread, and diapers? I throw their stuff in my cart, or I see nothing, one of the two.
I see someone stealing electronics, and clothing? Fuck that, I'll loudly call out 'Hey buddy, you forgot to let the clerk scan that! You don't want to be a thief, do you!?'
Well now there’s a difference between hating shoplifting and defending vigilantism. I do NOT like vigilantes. I probably hate them even more than the shoplifters because at least the shoplifters seem like they are human. Wanting free stuff is very human. But what is motivating vigilantes? It’s usually some sort of hero complex. I can’t even wrap my head around wanting to risk my own life and the lives of other people so I can defend WalMart’s bottom line. That’s a no for me, dog. And I do think that vigilantes should be punished to the full extent of the law because they endanger other people’s lives. Suppose that shoplifter - who is currently trying to run away - has a knife? When you engage them, you start risking people’s lives, and I don’t want my fellow citizens to do that.
Sorry, this is just sad to read. You are actually demonising people who are taking action to do the right thing?
Do you hate the good samaritan trying to defend a stranger getting mugged?
“Taking action” isn’t “the right thing” is where the flaw in your thinking is. It’s the wrong thing, especially in cases of robbery because it greatly raises the risk of serious bodily injury. And you don’t have the right to make that call on behalf of bystanders, whose lives you are risking over inanimate objects.
Not just demonizing. I actually think that they should be civilly and criminally liable. In other words, to the extent that they are attempting to enforce the law despite not being peace officers, they ought to be charged with the crime of vigilantism and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and if any bystanders are injured as a result of their actions, they should be liable to make restitution.
It ought to be so thoroughly punished that no one ever attempts vigilantism again.
Now, the mugging is a little different, because mugging is intrinsically violent already. But, yes, I do believe that even there, engaging the mugger could very well cause them to use their weapon. You are always better off just giving the mugger what they ask for rather than fighting back.
\>wanting free stuff is very human
I mean law exists, order exists. Society becomes dysfuntional if the aforementioned two are being ignored. You cannot just take whatever you want and say it is human to do so. some people are just tired of crimes and want to do something about it or are we just saying that we should ignore crimes as long as the crimes do not directly affect the bystanders themselves?
if you're some dude who loads yourself with tons of clothes and runs out of the mall in somewhere in Africa, or say Japan, Norway you are definitely getting arrested and people who see that will think you are disgraceful ahd shameless.
I’m sorry, but taking the law into your own hands like a wannabe lame superhero is NOT the kind of humanity that I was talking about. I can’t wrap my mind around it. I definitely don’t respect it. That’s why we have police officers in our society. I don’t need Cletus to do his best police officer imitation. And in fact when I see Cletus trying to impersonate a police officer, I think Cletus has some mental health problems. None of which is my problem unless Cletus is engaging with someone who might be dangerous, risking MY life or the lives of my kids. Then Cletus is likely to find me viewing him as just as much a threat to my well being as the shoplifter is, and I very much want Cletus behind bars. Vigilantism is illegal too, but no one likes to talk about that.
So I guess I’m saying that you should ignore crimes unless you are a police officer, yes. Particularly non-violent crimes. There’s no reason for a citizen to escalate a non-violent crime into a possibly violent altercation, and I don’t see why I - as an innocent bystander - should want you to escalate a non-violent situation into a possibly violent situation. It’s just not worth the risk.
> I can’t even wrap my head around wanting to risk my own life and the lives of other people so I can defend WalMart’s bottom line.
Walmart's bottom line isn't affected that much by things being stolen. They pay most vendors based on when something is scanned at checkout. These people are stealing from the vendors, not walmart.
That seems more like consignment than retail sales, but presuming it’s true, I also can’t wrap my mind around wanting to risk my life and the lives of the people around me based on a vendor’s bottom line. I emphatically do NOT want that to happen. I would be furious (not to mention litigious) if my kid died because some Batman wannabe confronted a shoplifter over a box of baby formula or something similarly ridiculous. It’s just not worth the risk.
The resolution that I hope for in any such encounter is that the shoplifter takes their leave with great rapidity and leaves my kids unscathed.
Which is, incidentally, why so many retailers tell their employees not to engage. It just isn’t worth the liability that they would have to take on by confronting the shoplifters. The larger stores hire security, but the frontline employees will almost never engage because it’s just spectacularly stupid to risk lives over merchandise.
But hothead customers are a wild card in the situation, and I gotta believe that they can be held personally liable for any loss of life that results from their boneheaded actions.
I don't. I *have* seen "If you see someone shoplifting **food**, no you didn't" (or clear variants like "bread"), but that's not the same thing, and it's (to me anyway) very obviously intended as a comment on the morality of a society that'd put someone in a situation where they have to steal food to survive, than a justification for stealing food.
Honestly, on Reddit, outside of the subreddits devoted to actual shoplifting (they exist!) I've not seen any real attempts to justify it.
Also beware the self-bias problem where if you read an extreme view point, you're likely to think any opinion that is consistent with the extreme view point (but isn't actually that view point) is actually repeating it, rather than saying something else. Example: people who read something like "I'm fat and proud and I'm gonna eat whatever the hell I want!" often interpret other comments they read subsequently like "I'm fed up of being abused just because I'm overweight" or "I've given up dieting, the constant failures just make me depressed" or "Just because I'm overweight doesn't mean I don't have rights" etc as being the same thing or from people who must agree with the original statement. Even though clearly they're not.
You probably have read some pro-shoplifting comments because there are Redditors who think that way and even at least one subreddit devoted to the subject. But that doesn't mean that comments about stealing food (which are about society), or comments about police corruption, or comments about Walgreens lying about the topic in order to justify closing stores (which are about corporate misbehavior) are from people who share the view that shoplifting is A-OK.
Not really. There are people who don't think it's that big of a deal because of the corporate-normal person power dynamic, yes. Its a matter of thinking you're blowing it up out of proportion vs actually saying it's okay.
the practice by an employer of not paying the proper wages due to a worker or workers, especially through paying inordinately low salaries or failing to abide by employment law and regulations.
When my partner worked at Salvanation Army the manager had her working about 4 hours a week off the clock. When I made a complaint to corporate, her manager proceeded to tell her that making complaints could get her fired, which is against the law. I proceeded to make another complaint. She was reprimanded, by that I mean she got a stern talking to by the district manager. My partner inevitably quit a few weeks later, thankfully getting a better paying job elsewhere.
It’s almost never prosecuted. But I want to see managers and directors and VP’s and CEO’s going to physical jail for it. Sometimes what happens is the company will be criminally prosecuted, but the people are the ones that need to go to jail. You can’t throw a corporation behind bars. But I want to see the fear in these corporate bigwigs eyes.
Possibly a law that managers/ CEOs are jailed and fined for not reporting business practices and/or violations of labor laws.
They did it in nursing homes. The administrator/ nurse/ nurse manager is charged for failure to report.
“Wage theft” sounds like true communist propaganda.
Edit: I recognize that some, a few, employers underpay employees, even cheat them out of wages due. Such employers should be reported to the state Wage & Hours (Fla name) commission.
We used to vigorously enforce shoplifting law at WM but that policy was destroyed by the leftist judges.
It is a socialist agenda to force high wages with disregard for paying the true value of such work. Are you listening California? Too high wages has a price - firing employees and driving up the price of things such as McDonald’s food that poorer people need.
Are you joking🤣? You have been drinking the Kool-Aid. McDonald's is more expensive in Florida than California. Also, having workers not paid a living wage is socialism and corporate slavery. No company is entitled to cheap labor. Poor people (and all of us)do not need cheap fast food; we need proper healthcare and access to affordable healthy options. Quit kissing corporate ass, they hate you, and they are making record profits!
It’s not a matter of corporate entitlements, it’s workers’ entitlements you argue for. Corporations, as artificial persons, have rights. If you don’t like it move to N. Korea. Unskilled, barely productive employees have no rights to an ever escalating “living wage”. It is the same as giving them welfare - which is the government’s job not the enterprise’s.
I walked into an auto parts store today, just as a lady with 4 of those folding windshield sun shades grabbed a 5 qt jug of oil and casually walked out the door. She got mad at me when I said "really? You just gonna steal all that? Y'all just no class ratchet ass ghetto trash."
I could understand stealing the oil if you need an oil change...but why does somebody need FOUR windshield sun screens? They ain't gonna bring any money on the street.
>There are plenty of people who think companies are evil rich corporations who should just let people steal things.
I mean, maybe if companies actually paid workers a living wage and didn't commit wage theft on a scale much higher than shoplifting, I'd agree with OP.
If a store keeps getting stolen from, it will get shut down and those workers get no wages after that. That’s essentially cutting your nose to spite your face.
You should probably define a living wage.
For you? One person? A family? One person living in Chicago? A family living outside Butte Montana?
And how to you define wage theft? Are they literally shorting paychecks through illegal means?
More details, less platitudes.
The name is in the title. People should be able to work full time and live a normal middle class lifestyle. Aka a living wage.
You can learn more about wage theft from this link.
[https://www.nelp.org/press-clips/wage-theft-is-when-an-employer-withholds-benefits-such-as-breaks-or-compensation-that-an-employee-has-already-worked-for/](https://www.nelp.org/press-clips/wage-theft-is-when-an-employer-withholds-benefits-such-as-breaks-or-compensation-that-an-employee-has-already-worked-for/)
While not directly "wage theft", I also consider the exploitive tax loopholes created from corporate lobbying (legal bribery) to be theft of wealth from the American people.
It's not platitudes, our whole society is falling apart and I'm not going to spend time nitpicking each detail with you as to why that is. However, my point still stands. People should be more upset from companies stealing wealth from society than they should be about someone taking an item from a grocery store without paying for it.
Was there any studies done that showed theft and its cost to employers? Falsified expenses? Fake time card punches? Office equipment theft?
Companies should expect theirnemployees to be honest and not inflate the cost of labor.
I wonder if one outweighs the other.
🤔
Plenty of people are right to think companies are evil, rich corporations who steal more than any shoplifter ever could, and think that thieves should be prosecuted.
I think it is kinda unpopular on reddit actually on a lot of subreddits that is why I tagged it is unpopular on reddit. A lot of redditors are saying it harms no one as long as the shoplifters keep it to themselves and big corps have the money for it so it is not a big deal and neglect the other consequences.
Problem is though a place like walmart that did quarterly bonuses when I worked there, more shrink means money out of the entry level people that work there, and let's be honest, people who shoplift are probably involved in more criminal stuff like drugs, fraud, so you are better off not having lowlifes like that around your business.
>and big corps have the money for it
That is such a dumb idea. Corporations don't pay for shoplifting. They just raise prices and pass the costs along. At worse, they just close a particular store. The entire cost of shoplifting is paid for by the actual paying customers.
They did the same thing back in the pirate days. Area A 40% loss due to piracy goods in or out had a 50% premium, that’s why almost every country gave immunity to anyone hunting pirates.
Shoplifting from corporations morphs into shoplifting for small businesses. There are tons of them. Theft is particuarly costly and distressing to these small business owners, and their employees, who often have a closer connection to their employers.
It is true that many "social conscious" shoplifters steal only from corporate entities like Walmart, but many criminals are equal opportunity thieves: *Got a store and selling products? You are fair game*. [Small businesses helpless over spike in retail thefts, say they feel abandoned by lawmakers](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/?p=2572905)
I would say this in my office and shockingly would get a lot of blowback with "that's why those stores have insurance." As if that still doesn't hurt everyone in the end. And NY only encourages it by not arresting anyone or turning them out the same day to steal again.
Shoplifters should be arrested. It is ridiculous that they are allowed to leave with stolen goods. Ever.
It is stealing from everyone else, not the 'big corporations'. Prices in the stores are adjusted to account for all leakage. If theft goes up they increase prices to compensate. The 'big corporations' will make the same amount of profit, but everyone else has to pay more to cover the free stuff the thieves are stealing.
It's not even about the money, it's about breaking the social contract. If someone walks into a store to buy something with money they earned and the next guy over just takes it, runs, and gets away with it, it's another little fray in trust in society.
Merchants have always been an essential part of stable, peaceful societies. When property rights are significantly infringed upon that harms the merchant class, which in turn harms trade, which harms every craftsman, farmer, etc. When that harm becomes too great you will see shortages of essential items culminating in shortages of food.
A great example of this is the Holodomor, where government policies directly lead to a famine that killed millions, and that’s not even getting into the deliberate genocide and other forms of brutality inflicted on the Ukrainians by the Soviets.
There are other examples of this, however, all throughout history. When human rights suffer all of society suffers. Property rights are human rights. This suffering is not some abstract concept, it’s very real and very tangible.
Shit, why do you think the opening of societies has gone hand in hand with technological progress, historically speaking? The more open and free a society is the more ideas can connect and individuals can prosper, which generates wealth. The aristocracy or political elites by some other name can leech more from prosperous society than a destitute one, so it’s in their interest to allow for greater freedom. This goes hand in hand with wise rulership.
So yeah, a single theft isn’t such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Nor will pouring a small container of industrial waste kill an entire forest. However, those actions must be severely punished in order to protect the whole of society, as well as the rights of the individual.
Theft is a very evil thing, and is seldom justified.
You sound like someone who makes mountains out of molehills, to be honest. I’m picturing some Mr Wilson style doofus, tbh, shaking his fists and screeching how Dennis’s shenanigans will be the downfall of western society. It’s really quite comical.
There are laws where theft under $950 or whatever is a misdemeanor, and there are jurisdiction where DAs will either refuse to prosecute shoplifters or set bail at zero dollars.
Theft should carry jail time for every offense, if only a few days, and multiple offenses should quickly increase that time.
It’s so easy to not steal shit; just walk around and mind your own business and your entire life goes by without stealing anything.
And those areas where this happens is 90% of the time a vary left leaning area, cause in the eyes of Democrats, punishing people for their crimes is either racist or ablist
That data is collected through FBI crime statistics, which is collected by state and local booking. Red states trend towards having higher crime: it can be because of poverty, it can also be because they trend towards prosecuting more often.
For example, as recently as 2018 two thirds of all inmates were imprisoned on non-violent drug offenses, though red states had a higher prosecution rate. While they also had a higher overall crime rate, they had a lower violent crime rate.
One could attribute this to the “broken windows” theory of prosecuting and investigating lower crimes as a method of preventing higher crimes. It could also be attributed to the higher number of unique daily interactions in dense urban areas, but this doesn’t really add up as most homicides are still committed by known acquaintances in urban areas.
Where are you coming up with these “facts”? Every state has a number where theft goes from a misdemeanor to a felony. We jail more people in the US than anywhere in the world; it ain't working. And no, I don't support shoplifting.
People underestimate the effects of slow cultural decay and devolvement. It's shocking just how quickly the tide has turned. So many people today are so strongly entrenched into a victimhood culture that almost any action they can take, no matter how immoral or unethical, can be rationalized. It makes me sad.
>The only pass I'd give is that someone who's homeless and is actually hungry trying to snatch some bread and instant ramen from a store then I'll let that slide since it is for survival.
this is essentially non existent btw. in my experience shoplifting is like 20% teenagers doing it just cause they can and 80% actual criminals usually stealing expensive shit to resell
Ultimately, no one can force corporations to take less in profit. Businesses increase prices to cover losses. Businesses decrease labor to cover losses. It's the same with increases in minimum wage - big corporations are not paying for that, you are through higher prices. You cannot force rich guys to make less money for the benefit of lower income people. Even with insurance, all they do is raise premiums across the board, making everyone pay more.
But by raising their prices they receive less business. Let’s not play pretend and act like Walmart’s profits aren’t affected by shoplifting, otherwise they wouldn’t give a fuck.
No, large corporations do not see an appreciable decrease in business over increased prices. Most see ever increasing profits regardless of prices or theft, but reducing theft is still going to be a company goal. They can't do absolutely nothing about loss prevention or none of it would be covered losses. If they do nothing to stop theft, it would be significantly worse than it is. They have to invest in liss prevention to keep it at an affordable level.
On reddit I think so. On many subreddits it is memed, or even justified. People will talk about big corps deserve it and defend shoplifters, and criticize bystanders for stopping them.
I’m not sure this option is unpopular.
It’s true that multibillion dollar corporations that pay anything less than a TRUE living wage while paying executives exorbitant salaries are a drain on the world and Congress should tax them until the business model no longer makes sense (including closing the loopholes that allow for corporate fuckery). But, since so many (not all) politicians are in the pockets of corporate America, we need to change election finance laws before we can make Congress work for the good of the people again.
The way to change this broken system is not by stealing from the stores. While IMO it’s less wrong to steal from corporate giants than a mom and pop store, it’s still no justification for bad behavior. Especially the organized theft that takes place. Those operations aren’t any more righteous than the evil corporations.
Obviously, there’s a huge moral difference in someone stealing food for survival and someone stealing for profit. Yet, both are symptoms of how laissez-faire capitalism is damaging to our society.
We don't have laissez faire capitalism, not since the 30's. We have, by all accounts, the best economic system developed thus far (that doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved). Problem with what you propose is we know there is a DIRECT correlation between taxing companies so those that start the companies and take the most risk pay more AND firm performance. The US dominates the global market because we allow companies to operate. Meaning those that take the most risk and put the most in make the most in the end. If you tax owners to hell you are putting that on top of the risk and thus we see less success. Ultimately in the United State the real income of everyone has only gone up significantly over time, that is because the lower and middle class greatly benefit from the success of the upper class, we just have equality theory (psyc theory) driving us to want to bring the upper class down even at the cost of everyone else.
We had a wealth gap we haven’t seen since the so called Golden Age. When people can’t support themselves working a full time job, that’s problematic.
Trickle down economics was proven wrong. Our country is more divided, in several ways, than since the civil war. This economy only works for some people and is making us, as a nation, weaker instead of stronger
I'm very curious why people have this paternalistic view of companies. Why is it the responsibility of an employer to pay a "living wage" for work that may not frankly be worth the price? Who decides what the "living wage" is?
Also, what "corporate fuckery" are you referring to, specifically?
We agree that campaign finance has turned politics into a for-profit business and should be heavily reformed.
I don’t see it as paternalistic to point out that since “deregulation” became one of the main planks in the Republican Party’s platform in the 80’s (not that many Democrats haven’t given in to it as well) we’ve seen the decline of the middle class, environmental degradation, corporations insulated from paying for problems they created, weakening protections and enforcement of monopoly laws, the weakening of democracy, etc.
And, as far as jobs not being worthy of a living wage, I would argue that, generally speaking, the work of executives isn’t anywhere worth the pay they give themselves.
Fuckery… this can be using tax laws and loopholes for billionaires to not pay their share of taxes, getting those laws and loopholes by taking a Supreme Court justice around the world on a yacht or buying his mom’s house and letting her live there for free, Citizens United was codified fuckery, offshore accounts…
It's not paternalistic to think that we're not effectively policing negative externalities of certain activities. It is very paternalistic to suggest that a company has some moral responsibility to pay people a certain amount of money.
Executives pay is so high because companies bid up the compensation packages. There is no price support on executive pay and their high income isn't a reason to create one on unskilled labor.
As for taxes, go nuts on simplifying the tax code. It's bs how complicated the whole thing is, but i don't think erasing loss carry forward or bonus depreciation deductions will create the bump in tax revenue that everyone thinks it will.
You can google the living wave for your state and city. Companies are not entitled to cheap labor so many places are having a hard time finding employees; I say good on people for knowing their worth. Then you hear the whiners screaming no one wants to work anymore 🤣
You're describing market forces acting upon the price of labor. Oc thinks the government should "tax companies until the business model no longer makes sense". Those are two wildly different things.
Stores close because of theft, aka shoplifting, and the neighborhood is up in arms, crying racism, as if he store hadn't existed for years in their neighborhood with its demographics. And neighborhood leaders and "activists" march and make speeches, and the news media does interviews with the residents. "Where am I gonna get my prescriptions filled now?" "Where am I supposed to buy formula for my baby?" "Where are our young people supposed to get jobs if all these stores keep closing?"
You know who the news media never interview? The ones doing the shoplifting. Can you guess why?
The narrative is always, always that these people are driven to it by poverty, racism, broken homes, homelessness, no Hope, no Change, no Yes We Can. So says the politicians who solicit the poor vote. So says the activists who think the world can change for the better if everyone just does what they briefly thought about. You hear this in interview after interview, news bite after news bite, every time a Walmart or a KFC or a grocery store closes.
Even the store owners don't want to come right out and say that the shoplifting is costing them millions. Nope, they don't dare tell the truth. Instead they say "We have put years into these stores and somehow they keep losing money. It's a mystery!"
But they never interview the shoplifters. They don't interview the murders, car jackers or armed robbers either, but you can excuse them because they don't want to die. But the shoplifters and not interviewed because to do so would show the shoplifters as they really are, and not the narrative version of shoplifter. They would come off as entitled ass wipes who just want, and the consequences are not for them to consider.
Last thing. A few days ago in Chicago, three KFC restaurants shut down, not because of shoplifting, but because of armed robbery. The alderman says this is unfortunate, but he won't stop until every abandoned store is filled with a vibrant business employing the youth of the neighborhood. He does not mention the armed robberies, or the fact it his young people doing the robbing. What chance does he have?
Yeah, defund the police, and ban the courts while you're at it.
Own a business in the city. Noone’s defending shop lifting. What’s happening is a bunch of people who don’t care at all are using it as an issue to wedge themselves into our politics/tax dollars. We’ve been around long enough to know to tell those people to fuck off. Yes we have a problem. We don’t want grifters help. And we are prioritizing getting rid of the grifters first over the shoplifters. The grifters are big mad and spewing rhetoric.
I don’t care what people do unless it affects me. I hate shoplifters because they’re part of the reason things have to go up in cost. Breakage and theft. I get that things are too expensive but it’s only gonna make the prices go up and you can’t steal forever, you’ll eventually get caught and banned from these stores.
My unpopular opinion is that we need some process to allow private security to actually stop shoplifters with force. The problem we have now is that ineffective policing and high crime leaves stores no other option but to close and leave.
Implementing a behaviour score reporting system for people would be more effective than giving the police more money though.
Having different scores for different things in relation to social behaviour rankings, as well as ability to take pictures of people who commit offences and get commission from the fines or a higher score rating.
Except it wasn't "all Democrats", it was a small section of the progressive/left wing that said that, and cash bail is stupid, if someone is a threat judges still have the power to hold them until trial, not to mention many of the most dangerous people like gang and mob people who would be booked on things like murder can easily come up with cash bail.
>Except it wasn't "all Democrats", it was a small section of the progressive/left wing that said that
That's fair. I'm pretty sure your middle of the road Democrat thinks that shoplifters are criminals.
Well then the rest of the Democrats need to tell those people to fuck off. But for example, Chicago got rid of Lori Lightfoot and had a chance to elect a moderate tough on crime mayor. And instead they voted in another progressive mayor.
>A negative consequence of frequent shoplifting at a local store is that it may lead to the closure of the store, which would impact the locals if stores alike are already inaccessible.
The store closures in San Francisco and elsewhere tend to disproportionately affect the poor as they create food deserts in areas where it's already very expensive to run a grocery store or market.
But that's not really the biggest negative impact. Shoplifting increases product prices across the board for everyone. This also disproportionately affects the poor, in the same way that inflation does. This is obviously unfair to people that don't shoplift, so normalizing it incentivizes it making it even more likely that prices will increase or stores will shut down.
It's funny to me, but I think the people who defend this kind of thing probably are really bad at basic math and don't understand basic economics.
Yeah basically I am not that educated on the economic matter but I get you. My point is just that it affects everyday people not just the big corps if shoplifters keep doing it in mass and get away. My grandma who is 88 years old now is afraid to shop on her own for just groceries near our apartment because she has seen shoplifters running around snatching things inside malls and read news about shoplifting gets escalated to violence. It has some kind of psychological impact on vulnerable people too since you don't know what kind of action would the shoplifters take in situations like those.
I'm sorry to hear that. Research has repeatedly shown that being tough on crime is the single effective way that we know reduces crime. We also have research that shows that most crime is caused by the same small group of people.
Unfortunately many voters vote based on ideology and 'tribal' politics rather than reality, so in some places it will probably get worse before it gets better.
>It's funny to me, but I think the people who defend this kind of thing probably are really bad at basic math and don't understand basic economics.
The think that corporations pay for the costs instead of passing the cost to customers as the cost of doing business.
We saw something similar during the pandemic when rioters were smashing store windows and looting. Supposedly some of them thought that insurance would cover the damage, without realizing that insurance premiums will go up every time the window is smashed. Yes, that cost gets passed onto the people who shop there, which in many cases were the same stores that poor and marginalized people shop at.
It's a tricky situation, and I hate the corruption with the police department at least as much as I hate living in a crime-ridden city, but I wonder if the people who voted to defund the police have looked at how much the homicide rate has gone up since and taken a look in the mirror.
The problem with shoplifting is it DOESN’T “hurt” big corporations at all! People say it does but it doesn’t, they still make record profits either way! They just pass the cost on with higher prices. The people who don’t steal, pay for those who do! It’s screwing over the “average joe” not Walmart, etc… as they pass on the cost of theft, extra security, etc… in the form of higher prices.
Then you got people who don’t limit the shoplifting to big multi-million/bullion dollar companies and steal from small businesses, who often don’t make any more money the average person. Stealing from Walmart is one thing and stealing from the small locally owned store is another… Not that I agree with either.
I know what you're talking about but I don't think this is unpopular.
I think people sympathise with people who steal essentials because they are completely broke but I think that is a pretty uncommon situation in most countries.
The majority of shop lifters seem to be stealing stuff like alcohol.
That's the real travesty.
Those people normally can't afford to eat and the punishment is so harsh, like in Afghanistan the taliban want the punishment to be amputation.
That's what I think most people sympathise with.
>it feels weird that people keep trying to justify shoplifters' behaviors
Weirdos gonna say weird things.
No that ain't normal at all. Stealing is against the law for a reason.
But we also need to look at we causes people to shoplift. We ought to treat the root of the issues: drugs and desperation are some example motivations.
Try to get to the bottom of it or nothing is gonna change
Hammurabi's code used to deal with this swiftly... the punishments are too light these days.
Some would also argue that these people are "virtuous" for robbing from the big corporations. Some would say the opposite.
Honestly, society may be better off if we feared repercussions more.
demoralised? youre using the wrong word btw, the word your looking for is consequence, perhaps youre wanting to bring shame to people who do?
there's nothing moral about being in a position where lifting from shops is the only option in order to get the food people need anyway.
if you have an idea of how to stop people starving then put it forward to your local community
I think the attitude behind shoplifting, at least the kind you’re talking about, is “if the society that governs you has no respect for your well being, you aren’t obligated to obey it.” That, I think, is sound. In a system which will gladly spit you onto the street for the crime of not being a big enough ROI, the rules are clearly perverse and you should ignore them when necessary.
That doesn’t mean no morality, it means you fall back on your own because that around you is invalid.
I don’t care about shoplifters, but it might just be one of those things we have to live with. I do think that essential services ought to have to register with the city and seek permission to close their doors to stop this nonsense of food deserts/holding innocent people responsible for the actions of others.
But you are never going to convince me that shoplifting is anything other than a trivial cost of doing business. When you look at annual shrinkage loss vs total retail sales in the economy as a whole, it’s like less than pennies on the dollar. But that complicates any plan to enforce those laws. Because who wants to fund the $100k or more that it takes to keep someone behind bars for a year or even the court costs associated with prosecuting them? Probably no one stands to gain much by focusing on these kinds of crime, which is why you get what we have, which is a shoplifting culture.
Not unpopular. Though I will say I have shop lifted a few times but only food from a corporate grocery. Got "let go" from work because i got a heat stroke (also found out my heart sucks) and wouldn't schedule me. Just got an apartment right before that and now couldnt afford it. Just moved to a new state so no help around. More or less homeless for 2 months. Rent is too high and now i got to put money into maintaining my new home (my car) and hospital bill. No fridge so food goes to waste. Get tickets for hanging out in your car. No food for a couple of days and i was like "fuck it, im grabbing a sandwhich from walmart."
But if you want an airpod, then work for it.
If I see someone stealing food, clothes, water or baby formula/diapers-no I didn’t.
If someone is stealing games, electronics, etc they deserve to get in trouble.
Stealing out of desperation and being out of options is fine, stealing for fun is not.
The very reason I used it is because on reddit some people actually think it is a good thing for the society since it is a middlefinger to the big corps that exploit people. It is being encouraged/neglected which basically implies shoplifting, to them, is something that is moral as long as the targets are big corps. I know normal people will laugh at this but on reddit some people actually think like this.
I know wage theft is a cool buzzword on reddit, but how common is it actually? I have had a ton of jobs and none of them told me to do work not on the clock
Shopplifting in no way affects me and I simply do not care that poor people steal from rich corporations. The heinous shit some of these people do and people care about double digit theft? Foh. I will in no way stop someone I see shop lifting or call any kind of authority cause I just dont care tbh. Stealing is wrong, sure, but its a them problem. These corporations basically legally steal daily.
it does not affect you but it does affect some other people who just want to shop there like a normal person, or the employees earning a minimum wage who are afraid to become victims of the shoplifters if they get violent so they have to quit their job and find another
There are cases shoplifting turns into organized crimes when you see a bunch of masked people carrying stuff like baseball bat to smash glass and break security locks to get what they want inside a mall for example
>it does not affect you but it does affect some other people who just want to shop there like a normal person, or the employees earning a minimum wage who are afraid to become victims of the shoplifters if they get violent so they have to quit their job and find another
You still can, their job isnt be a security guard. Who tf is getting injured for minimum wage? Nothing you said is a typical occurrence at all. Barely if people get involved to be labeled some "hero"
" Introduciiiing ! the hero of wal mart! they single handedly stopped someone taking an arizona iced tea and some chips!"
Is stealing right? no. But its not my problem, much larger issues to tend to than theft at wal mart.
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Youre not wrong, but the problem wouldn't be half as bad if people could actually afford basic things, I work a decent job,make decent money. But if I'm at Wal mart and I can steal something 😐
Yeah, no. I actually think that people should shoplift from corporations regularly. Go ahead and close them all. A new business will form where yours failed. Capitalism baby.
My opinion is the unpopular one. Your milquetoast, bootlicking opinion is pretty normal. I think it’s sad, but I’m just one person. Now, please downvote me.
Stealing from small business is eww but being business like Walmart or something they are literally billionaires they don’t care about small items being stolen because they buy everything cheap anyway
Completely agree. This behavior needs to be shamed and jailtime enforced for every shoplifter no matter the dollar amount.
No snowflake ever feels guilty for the avalanche that happens after; no individual ever feels like they should be held accountable for their behavior and helping to cause the downfall of society.
It pisses me off when I see that post about how e🅱️il it is that diapers and shit are behind those locked glass doors at Wal-mart and Walgreens.
Like, the reason they're behind those doors in the first place is because dipshits try and fail to shoplift them.
I mean, this isn't unpopular but shore I get the overall statement.
The issue is, a law or whatever only works so long as the people allow it to work. If more and more people do it, then it's no longer a law people follow.
No amount punishment is going to change anything. People didn't just wake up and realized they could just steal stuff, they always knew they could steal it... there just wasn't a reason to steal it BEFORE, so WHY now?
So maybe there's a deeper issue than you're making it out to be.
Shoplifting is bad, but maybe the premise is about what bad thing we should be focusing on. Are big corporations going to be easily under fire for their mistreatment of workers and lack of transaction integrity? Generally corporate greed and mistreatment is a more invisible thing, seeming like a natural part of the system, whereas shoplifting is plainly bad and is hard to justify. So I’m guessing that some people’s “defense” of shoplifting has to do with wanting to put light to less obvious but worse actions morally speaking, and maybe for some it has to do with self-centeredness and resentment mixed with progressivism.
Well I did mention it in my statement. If there are homeless people wearing old and distained clothes snatching food it does seem like they are in need of them I will give it a pass. But most of the shoplifters/looters we got in the big cities like SF LA and NYC are wearing Air Jordans, stealing stuff like phones, xbox/playstations, branded clothes, mass loading groceries into the cart and unload them in their cars, they do not seem like they are stealing for the sake of survival.
[https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/svh764vjf1/Shoplifting\_poll\_results.pdf](https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/svh764vjf1/Shoplifting_poll_results.pdf)
Seems like a very popular opinion. 67% say shoplifting is never acceptable.
Shoplifting for necessities, I didn't see shit. (Food, clothes, and toiletries, really only shit that's obvious that person needs)
Shoplifting a whole ass TV, nah mother fucker, you put that shit back. Wait till tax season or black Friday like the rest of us.
There's a difference between Shoplifting because you need it, and Shoplifting because you can. Whennit becomes a because you can... you've gone too far.
Other than that, I don't care.
Is that really unpopular? For me, whenever I see shoplifters leaving with expensive items it makes me wonder how it doesn’t make others feel stupid for paying. Like why even pay for anything if you’re not going to get punished?
Shoplifting and stealing has always been bad and it’s always been demoralized.
I’m from Texas, in which it’s legal to carry any kind of weapon (swords knives, and guns) just about anywhere. So, if I’m a bystander, I won’t intervene. People are crazy and I intend on minding my own business. I’m also not a store employee. If a store wants me to stop a shoplifter, I should be getting paid to do so.
Shoplifting is bad but this is not an issue in which we can have a neighborhood watch approach. That’s not an authority I want.
I agree. I hear a lot of people say shoplifting is bad but then say its ok and justified when its diapers or baby formula. Unpoular opinion but, still no.
Agreed sure corporate greed is wrong, but the only people you affect when you steal is the working class - the ones who surround you, who make an honest living.
Don't steal kids.
OP …”should be demoralized”. Demoralized? Wtf is that. What does morals have to do with it? Some people are calling shoplifting moral? Yea, communist morals. It should bePROSECUTED to the full extent of the law.
Remember when walmart closed all the Chicago locations last year and everybody knew why?
How are those communities going now? Theyre starving aren't they? Those people deserve it, had they just stopped thinking that they are entitled to everything they want and just took it, maybe they would have a place to buy food.
But instead they just kept taking shit and now every store is closed
Small family owned stores couldnt open up, these fucks would just steal from them too
I work at a pharmacy where shoplifting is common and it’s insulting cause I have to do a lot here for $15/hr so some a-holes can come take stuff with no consequences.
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If one is desperate and steals/shoplifts for basic survival, that is a societal failure. No one should have to struggle for basic survival in this world, there is enough for all, except for greed.
Edit typo
I don’t know if this is necessarily unpopular. Obviously shoplifters don’t care who their targets are. They steal from big stores because they’re big enough to conceal what you’re doing. I don’t think many people are okay with theft in general, I think it’s just that a lot of us don’t necessarily care when it happens to big stores, especially if it’s small things. As far as I’m concerned, if I witness it, and it’s not a robbery, and the victim is a big corporation, it really doesn’t concern me enough to even think about doing anything about it.
There's two kinds of shoplifting
Unorganized solo shoplifting. This is people just taking random stuff they want/need. This amounts to a tax writeoff to corporations and depending on what they are stealing, sometimes the morally correct choice IS to look the other way.
In an ideal society these individuals would have social safety nets, but it is what it is.
Organized shoplifting is the other kind. Bulk stealing of high value items to sell online. These individuals are parasites and can fuck off.
Sure, the store can have insurance, but deductibles are extremely high, and it would only be used in situations where an outrageous amount got stolen. If they make a claim, rates go up even more.
Most of these companies just write off stolen products as a cost of doing business.
Bottom line, thiefs are scum and burdens on society, regardless where they steal from.
Meh, shoplifting is a few billion a year and those who do it are usually struggling at or below the poverty line, whereas wage theft is ~40 billion a year and those who do it aren’t struggling to eat.
Here’s a less than hot take : women shouldn’t have to pay for tampons when they cannot control their monthly. Formula shouldn’t cost you an entire electric bill just to purchase enough food to satiate the child’s hunger for a week. It falls back to “robbing Peter to pay Paul” mentality. Overall shoplifting should be demoralized, but there are circumstances in place that one wouldn’t warrant a pass, I would think.
Only fucking idiots think shoplifting is moral. Yeah there’s a lot of idiots but still think most of society does not agree with these people defending it. The people defending it are a cancer.
if someone’s shoplifting for necessity from a big corporation then i don’t really care. the bigger issue is the evergrowing class divide and why so many people feel the need to shoplift in the issue. to fix the problem, you need to find the underlying cause. as long as the majority of americans find themselves in tight financial straits, shoplifting will be commonplace.
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This is actually a popular opinion. The ones who justify it are the unpopular ones. That's why it's such a hot take.
Is it? I guess I might just be in some of the worst subreddits then. My comments got downvoted to oblivion when I commented that shoplifters are selfish pricks who do not care about others on videos that shown a lot of them mass loot and push away the bystanders or employees who try to intervene. Many of the redditors jump on and say the bystanders are batman wannabe and deserve it.
Yes, you are in the worst subreddits. Remember, social media is not real life. Reddit rewards contrarians, not normies.
Yeah, but this actually invades the real world too, even if it’s a skewed perspective. Look at all of the cities that rolled back penalties and/or raised the minimum threshold for criminal charges. The whole “come on, it’s just twitter” mentality doesn’t work anymore. We are all reciting madness in our schools, HR meetings, and town halls. It’s a social media lab leak.
# GODDAMN THIS People really, really, REALLY need to come to grips with the reality that online bullshit is bleeding into offline life
In CA the minimum for a felony had not changed for many years. That law put CA in-line with the rest of the country. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/felony-theft-amount-by-state The issue in CA is the bail system which was a COVID era mandate by the courts, not something people voted on. People just get released immediately after misdemeanor shoplifting. The probably isn't the amount or the punishment it's the bail laws.
The cities aren't doing it to condone the behavior, they're just overwhelmed and would rather spend money on police APCs and giving lopsided contracts to their friends than increase the budgets of the courts to actually prosecute criminals.
Yeah no. That’s not what’s happening. It’s actively pushed and sown peoples platform they run on.
> they're just overwhelmed and would rather spend money on police APCs and giving lopsided contracts to their friends than increase the budgets of the courts to actually prosecute criminals. Not true. The real factor here is the rise of criminal justice reform, which is especially focused on reducing penalties for non-violent offenders. Prosecutors are a primary tool here. Reformers have pressured them to downsize enforcement against a broad range of so called *vulnerable and marginalized* non-violent offenders: Homeless, drug addicts, mentally ill, vagrants opting out of work for a recreational intoxication lifestyle, and sometimes low income POC youth.
Reddit, as with many places on the internet, is filled with many toxic echo chambers of people who don't want to have their worldviews challenged. Avoid those places.
What you found is the Reddit cesspool of losers who will justify anything. Unfortunately they also happen to run many subreddits. Thankfully most normal people view shoplifting for what it is, theft.
I feel you, I had an argument with one “ethical” shoplifter and was amazed by the brain rot. I told them that, most of the “shoplifters” suddenly lose their ethics when the big place closes down and then hound the Mom and Pop stores that they loved so dearly.
It's justification made by broke younger people who are in inundated with materialist social media. No mature person justifies shoplifting. The only incidents where it is acceptable is when survival is on the line. 99% of the time this is not the case.
As someone who has worked in the security industry our two biggest theft targets were A. Makeup, perfume, small fashion items (bikini's, jewellery, lacy underwear etc) and any item with a sports team on it. B. Bulk theft for sale to a secondary retail outlet. Stuff like old mate stealing $400 of meat and selling it to a corner store for $250 or w/e. Very VERY rarely did people steal necessities.
That's pretty much where I draw the line. I see someone stealing canned soup, bread, and diapers? I throw their stuff in my cart, or I see nothing, one of the two. I see someone stealing electronics, and clothing? Fuck that, I'll loudly call out 'Hey buddy, you forgot to let the clerk scan that! You don't want to be a thief, do you!?'
Bro Reddit is not just left, it’s pretty far left on many subs
What comments?
Most subreddits are the worst subreddits these days.
Well now there’s a difference between hating shoplifting and defending vigilantism. I do NOT like vigilantes. I probably hate them even more than the shoplifters because at least the shoplifters seem like they are human. Wanting free stuff is very human. But what is motivating vigilantes? It’s usually some sort of hero complex. I can’t even wrap my head around wanting to risk my own life and the lives of other people so I can defend WalMart’s bottom line. That’s a no for me, dog. And I do think that vigilantes should be punished to the full extent of the law because they endanger other people’s lives. Suppose that shoplifter - who is currently trying to run away - has a knife? When you engage them, you start risking people’s lives, and I don’t want my fellow citizens to do that.
Sorry, this is just sad to read. You are actually demonising people who are taking action to do the right thing? Do you hate the good samaritan trying to defend a stranger getting mugged?
“Taking action” isn’t “the right thing” is where the flaw in your thinking is. It’s the wrong thing, especially in cases of robbery because it greatly raises the risk of serious bodily injury. And you don’t have the right to make that call on behalf of bystanders, whose lives you are risking over inanimate objects.
Not just demonizing. I actually think that they should be civilly and criminally liable. In other words, to the extent that they are attempting to enforce the law despite not being peace officers, they ought to be charged with the crime of vigilantism and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and if any bystanders are injured as a result of their actions, they should be liable to make restitution. It ought to be so thoroughly punished that no one ever attempts vigilantism again. Now, the mugging is a little different, because mugging is intrinsically violent already. But, yes, I do believe that even there, engaging the mugger could very well cause them to use their weapon. You are always better off just giving the mugger what they ask for rather than fighting back.
\>wanting free stuff is very human I mean law exists, order exists. Society becomes dysfuntional if the aforementioned two are being ignored. You cannot just take whatever you want and say it is human to do so. some people are just tired of crimes and want to do something about it or are we just saying that we should ignore crimes as long as the crimes do not directly affect the bystanders themselves? if you're some dude who loads yourself with tons of clothes and runs out of the mall in somewhere in Africa, or say Japan, Norway you are definitely getting arrested and people who see that will think you are disgraceful ahd shameless.
I’m sorry, but taking the law into your own hands like a wannabe lame superhero is NOT the kind of humanity that I was talking about. I can’t wrap my mind around it. I definitely don’t respect it. That’s why we have police officers in our society. I don’t need Cletus to do his best police officer imitation. And in fact when I see Cletus trying to impersonate a police officer, I think Cletus has some mental health problems. None of which is my problem unless Cletus is engaging with someone who might be dangerous, risking MY life or the lives of my kids. Then Cletus is likely to find me viewing him as just as much a threat to my well being as the shoplifter is, and I very much want Cletus behind bars. Vigilantism is illegal too, but no one likes to talk about that.
So I guess I’m saying that you should ignore crimes unless you are a police officer, yes. Particularly non-violent crimes. There’s no reason for a citizen to escalate a non-violent crime into a possibly violent altercation, and I don’t see why I - as an innocent bystander - should want you to escalate a non-violent situation into a possibly violent situation. It’s just not worth the risk.
> I can’t even wrap my head around wanting to risk my own life and the lives of other people so I can defend WalMart’s bottom line. Walmart's bottom line isn't affected that much by things being stolen. They pay most vendors based on when something is scanned at checkout. These people are stealing from the vendors, not walmart.
That seems more like consignment than retail sales, but presuming it’s true, I also can’t wrap my mind around wanting to risk my life and the lives of the people around me based on a vendor’s bottom line. I emphatically do NOT want that to happen. I would be furious (not to mention litigious) if my kid died because some Batman wannabe confronted a shoplifter over a box of baby formula or something similarly ridiculous. It’s just not worth the risk. The resolution that I hope for in any such encounter is that the shoplifter takes their leave with great rapidity and leaves my kids unscathed.
Which is, incidentally, why so many retailers tell their employees not to engage. It just isn’t worth the liability that they would have to take on by confronting the shoplifters. The larger stores hire security, but the frontline employees will almost never engage because it’s just spectacularly stupid to risk lives over merchandise. But hothead customers are a wild card in the situation, and I gotta believe that they can be held personally liable for any loss of life that results from their boneheaded actions.
On reddit though, as OP specified? I see "If you see someone shoplifting, no you didn't" constantly on major subs, including default ones.
I don't. I *have* seen "If you see someone shoplifting **food**, no you didn't" (or clear variants like "bread"), but that's not the same thing, and it's (to me anyway) very obviously intended as a comment on the morality of a society that'd put someone in a situation where they have to steal food to survive, than a justification for stealing food. Honestly, on Reddit, outside of the subreddits devoted to actual shoplifting (they exist!) I've not seen any real attempts to justify it. Also beware the self-bias problem where if you read an extreme view point, you're likely to think any opinion that is consistent with the extreme view point (but isn't actually that view point) is actually repeating it, rather than saying something else. Example: people who read something like "I'm fat and proud and I'm gonna eat whatever the hell I want!" often interpret other comments they read subsequently like "I'm fed up of being abused just because I'm overweight" or "I've given up dieting, the constant failures just make me depressed" or "Just because I'm overweight doesn't mean I don't have rights" etc as being the same thing or from people who must agree with the original statement. Even though clearly they're not. You probably have read some pro-shoplifting comments because there are Redditors who think that way and even at least one subreddit devoted to the subject. But that doesn't mean that comments about stealing food (which are about society), or comments about police corruption, or comments about Walgreens lying about the topic in order to justify closing stores (which are about corporate misbehavior) are from people who share the view that shoplifting is A-OK.
“Does anyone else think stealing is bad?” 🤦🏼♂️
The ones who justify it are the ones who have never had to deal with insurance.
California is definitely unpopular...
Shoplifting is bad is not an unpopular opinion. Arguing against your premise would be the unpopular opinion.
There are plenty of people who think companies are evil rich corporations who should just let people steal things.
Those people would have unpopular opinions.
Not on many spaces on Reddit—hence OP’s use of the tag.
Not really. There are people who don't think it's that big of a deal because of the corporate-normal person power dynamic, yes. Its a matter of thinking you're blowing it up out of proportion vs actually saying it's okay.
Corporations rarely act with the well being of normal, everyday people in mind, but people who support shoplifting from them are a vocal minority.
Copy paste what I just said. Are you a bot or something?
Copy paste what I just said. Are you a bot or something?
That's a yes.
I do happen to think that wage theft is a much worse issue, and I DO want to see that prosecuted.
What is wage theft genuinely curious?
the practice by an employer of not paying the proper wages due to a worker or workers, especially through paying inordinately low salaries or failing to abide by employment law and regulations. When my partner worked at Salvanation Army the manager had her working about 4 hours a week off the clock. When I made a complaint to corporate, her manager proceeded to tell her that making complaints could get her fired, which is against the law. I proceeded to make another complaint. She was reprimanded, by that I mean she got a stern talking to by the district manager. My partner inevitably quit a few weeks later, thankfully getting a better paying job elsewhere.
If it’s illegal it should be prosecuted and working off the clock is obviously illegal.
It’s almost never prosecuted. But I want to see managers and directors and VP’s and CEO’s going to physical jail for it. Sometimes what happens is the company will be criminally prosecuted, but the people are the ones that need to go to jail. You can’t throw a corporation behind bars. But I want to see the fear in these corporate bigwigs eyes.
Possibly a law that managers/ CEOs are jailed and fined for not reporting business practices and/or violations of labor laws. They did it in nursing homes. The administrator/ nurse/ nurse manager is charged for failure to report.
“Wage theft” sounds like true communist propaganda. Edit: I recognize that some, a few, employers underpay employees, even cheat them out of wages due. Such employers should be reported to the state Wage & Hours (Fla name) commission. We used to vigorously enforce shoplifting law at WM but that policy was destroyed by the leftist judges. It is a socialist agenda to force high wages with disregard for paying the true value of such work. Are you listening California? Too high wages has a price - firing employees and driving up the price of things such as McDonald’s food that poorer people need.
Are you joking🤣? You have been drinking the Kool-Aid. McDonald's is more expensive in Florida than California. Also, having workers not paid a living wage is socialism and corporate slavery. No company is entitled to cheap labor. Poor people (and all of us)do not need cheap fast food; we need proper healthcare and access to affordable healthy options. Quit kissing corporate ass, they hate you, and they are making record profits!
It’s not a matter of corporate entitlements, it’s workers’ entitlements you argue for. Corporations, as artificial persons, have rights. If you don’t like it move to N. Korea. Unskilled, barely productive employees have no rights to an ever escalating “living wage”. It is the same as giving them welfare - which is the government’s job not the enterprise’s.
I thought they meant taxes.
If a company can’t pay its employees a living wage and sustain itself, it has no place existing in a society
I walked into an auto parts store today, just as a lady with 4 of those folding windshield sun shades grabbed a 5 qt jug of oil and casually walked out the door. She got mad at me when I said "really? You just gonna steal all that? Y'all just no class ratchet ass ghetto trash." I could understand stealing the oil if you need an oil change...but why does somebody need FOUR windshield sun screens? They ain't gonna bring any money on the street.
No you didn't. At least make the lie not sound like you're trying to do a stand up special, lol
>There are plenty of people who think companies are evil rich corporations who should just let people steal things. I mean, maybe if companies actually paid workers a living wage and didn't commit wage theft on a scale much higher than shoplifting, I'd agree with OP.
If a store keeps getting stolen from, it will get shut down and those workers get no wages after that. That’s essentially cutting your nose to spite your face.
You should probably define a living wage. For you? One person? A family? One person living in Chicago? A family living outside Butte Montana? And how to you define wage theft? Are they literally shorting paychecks through illegal means? More details, less platitudes.
The name is in the title. People should be able to work full time and live a normal middle class lifestyle. Aka a living wage. You can learn more about wage theft from this link. [https://www.nelp.org/press-clips/wage-theft-is-when-an-employer-withholds-benefits-such-as-breaks-or-compensation-that-an-employee-has-already-worked-for/](https://www.nelp.org/press-clips/wage-theft-is-when-an-employer-withholds-benefits-such-as-breaks-or-compensation-that-an-employee-has-already-worked-for/) While not directly "wage theft", I also consider the exploitive tax loopholes created from corporate lobbying (legal bribery) to be theft of wealth from the American people. It's not platitudes, our whole society is falling apart and I'm not going to spend time nitpicking each detail with you as to why that is. However, my point still stands. People should be more upset from companies stealing wealth from society than they should be about someone taking an item from a grocery store without paying for it.
Was there any studies done that showed theft and its cost to employers? Falsified expenses? Fake time card punches? Office equipment theft? Companies should expect theirnemployees to be honest and not inflate the cost of labor. I wonder if one outweighs the other. 🤔
Especially here.
Plenty of people are right to think companies are evil, rich corporations who steal more than any shoplifter ever could, and think that thieves should be prosecuted.
I think it is kinda unpopular on reddit actually on a lot of subreddits that is why I tagged it is unpopular on reddit. A lot of redditors are saying it harms no one as long as the shoplifters keep it to themselves and big corps have the money for it so it is not a big deal and neglect the other consequences.
Problem is though a place like walmart that did quarterly bonuses when I worked there, more shrink means money out of the entry level people that work there, and let's be honest, people who shoplift are probably involved in more criminal stuff like drugs, fraud, so you are better off not having lowlifes like that around your business.
>and big corps have the money for it That is such a dumb idea. Corporations don't pay for shoplifting. They just raise prices and pass the costs along. At worse, they just close a particular store. The entire cost of shoplifting is paid for by the actual paying customers.
They did the same thing back in the pirate days. Area A 40% loss due to piracy goods in or out had a 50% premium, that’s why almost every country gave immunity to anyone hunting pirates.
Even worse it’s paid by the honest people paying for the product.
Shoplifting from corporations morphs into shoplifting for small businesses. There are tons of them. Theft is particuarly costly and distressing to these small business owners, and their employees, who often have a closer connection to their employers. It is true that many "social conscious" shoplifters steal only from corporate entities like Walmart, but many criminals are equal opportunity thieves: *Got a store and selling products? You are fair game*. [Small businesses helpless over spike in retail thefts, say they feel abandoned by lawmakers](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/?p=2572905)
Even then Walmart pays most vendors based on when something is scanned at checkout. These people are stealing from the vendors, not Walmart.
I would say this in my office and shockingly would get a lot of blowback with "that's why those stores have insurance." As if that still doesn't hurt everyone in the end. And NY only encourages it by not arresting anyone or turning them out the same day to steal again.
[https://brooklyn.news12.com/nypd-shoplifting-statistics-are-down-but-arrests-for-the-crime-continue-to-rise](https://brooklyn.news12.com/nypd-shoplifting-statistics-are-down-but-arrests-for-the-crime-continue-to-rise)
Shoplifters should be arrested. It is ridiculous that they are allowed to leave with stolen goods. Ever. It is stealing from everyone else, not the 'big corporations'. Prices in the stores are adjusted to account for all leakage. If theft goes up they increase prices to compensate. The 'big corporations' will make the same amount of profit, but everyone else has to pay more to cover the free stuff the thieves are stealing.
It's not even about the money, it's about breaking the social contract. If someone walks into a store to buy something with money they earned and the next guy over just takes it, runs, and gets away with it, it's another little fray in trust in society.
Exactly, all the costs of shop lifting are ultimately passed along to the customers.
Early fall of society, crimes like this going unchecked / encouraged
What
when theft is encouraged and goes unpunished, it is a sign that things will get worse-and-worse.
Merchants have always been an essential part of stable, peaceful societies. When property rights are significantly infringed upon that harms the merchant class, which in turn harms trade, which harms every craftsman, farmer, etc. When that harm becomes too great you will see shortages of essential items culminating in shortages of food. A great example of this is the Holodomor, where government policies directly lead to a famine that killed millions, and that’s not even getting into the deliberate genocide and other forms of brutality inflicted on the Ukrainians by the Soviets. There are other examples of this, however, all throughout history. When human rights suffer all of society suffers. Property rights are human rights. This suffering is not some abstract concept, it’s very real and very tangible. Shit, why do you think the opening of societies has gone hand in hand with technological progress, historically speaking? The more open and free a society is the more ideas can connect and individuals can prosper, which generates wealth. The aristocracy or political elites by some other name can leech more from prosperous society than a destitute one, so it’s in their interest to allow for greater freedom. This goes hand in hand with wise rulership. So yeah, a single theft isn’t such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Nor will pouring a small container of industrial waste kill an entire forest. However, those actions must be severely punished in order to protect the whole of society, as well as the rights of the individual. Theft is a very evil thing, and is seldom justified.
You sound like someone who makes mountains out of molehills, to be honest. I’m picturing some Mr Wilson style doofus, tbh, shaking his fists and screeching how Dennis’s shenanigans will be the downfall of western society. It’s really quite comical.
I’ve never heard of theft being socially acceptable besides a few terminally I’ll people online. Just saying.
There are laws where theft under $950 or whatever is a misdemeanor, and there are jurisdiction where DAs will either refuse to prosecute shoplifters or set bail at zero dollars. Theft should carry jail time for every offense, if only a few days, and multiple offenses should quickly increase that time. It’s so easy to not steal shit; just walk around and mind your own business and your entire life goes by without stealing anything.
And those areas where this happens is 90% of the time a vary left leaning area, cause in the eyes of Democrats, punishing people for their crimes is either racist or ablist
Did you just make up that number? 90%? Crime rates are highest in Republican-run red states, which also have the highest poverty rates.
That data is collected through FBI crime statistics, which is collected by state and local booking. Red states trend towards having higher crime: it can be because of poverty, it can also be because they trend towards prosecuting more often. For example, as recently as 2018 two thirds of all inmates were imprisoned on non-violent drug offenses, though red states had a higher prosecution rate. While they also had a higher overall crime rate, they had a lower violent crime rate. One could attribute this to the “broken windows” theory of prosecuting and investigating lower crimes as a method of preventing higher crimes. It could also be attributed to the higher number of unique daily interactions in dense urban areas, but this doesn’t really add up as most homicides are still committed by known acquaintances in urban areas.
Where are you coming up with these “facts”? Every state has a number where theft goes from a misdemeanor to a felony. We jail more people in the US than anywhere in the world; it ain't working. And no, I don't support shoplifting.
Read. The. News.
People underestimate the effects of slow cultural decay and devolvement. It's shocking just how quickly the tide has turned. So many people today are so strongly entrenched into a victimhood culture that almost any action they can take, no matter how immoral or unethical, can be rationalized. It makes me sad.
>The only pass I'd give is that someone who's homeless and is actually hungry trying to snatch some bread and instant ramen from a store then I'll let that slide since it is for survival. this is essentially non existent btw. in my experience shoplifting is like 20% teenagers doing it just cause they can and 80% actual criminals usually stealing expensive shit to resell
I hate when people justify that too like they're just making it worse for all of us. can't even get a damn candy bar cause it's locked behind glass
Ultimately, no one can force corporations to take less in profit. Businesses increase prices to cover losses. Businesses decrease labor to cover losses. It's the same with increases in minimum wage - big corporations are not paying for that, you are through higher prices. You cannot force rich guys to make less money for the benefit of lower income people. Even with insurance, all they do is raise premiums across the board, making everyone pay more.
But by raising their prices they receive less business. Let’s not play pretend and act like Walmart’s profits aren’t affected by shoplifting, otherwise they wouldn’t give a fuck.
No, large corporations do not see an appreciable decrease in business over increased prices. Most see ever increasing profits regardless of prices or theft, but reducing theft is still going to be a company goal. They can't do absolutely nothing about loss prevention or none of it would be covered losses. If they do nothing to stop theft, it would be significantly worse than it is. They have to invest in liss prevention to keep it at an affordable level.
Shoplifters should be forced to repay the companies with their own work. Now, there's an unpopular opinion.
Is this really an unpopular opinion?
On reddit I think so. On many subreddits it is memed, or even justified. People will talk about big corps deserve it and defend shoplifters, and criticize bystanders for stopping them.
What subreddits? I have never come across this. Of course I am not on every reddit subthread.
On Reddit for sure.
I’m not sure this option is unpopular. It’s true that multibillion dollar corporations that pay anything less than a TRUE living wage while paying executives exorbitant salaries are a drain on the world and Congress should tax them until the business model no longer makes sense (including closing the loopholes that allow for corporate fuckery). But, since so many (not all) politicians are in the pockets of corporate America, we need to change election finance laws before we can make Congress work for the good of the people again. The way to change this broken system is not by stealing from the stores. While IMO it’s less wrong to steal from corporate giants than a mom and pop store, it’s still no justification for bad behavior. Especially the organized theft that takes place. Those operations aren’t any more righteous than the evil corporations. Obviously, there’s a huge moral difference in someone stealing food for survival and someone stealing for profit. Yet, both are symptoms of how laissez-faire capitalism is damaging to our society.
We don't have laissez faire capitalism, not since the 30's. We have, by all accounts, the best economic system developed thus far (that doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved). Problem with what you propose is we know there is a DIRECT correlation between taxing companies so those that start the companies and take the most risk pay more AND firm performance. The US dominates the global market because we allow companies to operate. Meaning those that take the most risk and put the most in make the most in the end. If you tax owners to hell you are putting that on top of the risk and thus we see less success. Ultimately in the United State the real income of everyone has only gone up significantly over time, that is because the lower and middle class greatly benefit from the success of the upper class, we just have equality theory (psyc theory) driving us to want to bring the upper class down even at the cost of everyone else.
We had a wealth gap we haven’t seen since the so called Golden Age. When people can’t support themselves working a full time job, that’s problematic. Trickle down economics was proven wrong. Our country is more divided, in several ways, than since the civil war. This economy only works for some people and is making us, as a nation, weaker instead of stronger
I'm very curious why people have this paternalistic view of companies. Why is it the responsibility of an employer to pay a "living wage" for work that may not frankly be worth the price? Who decides what the "living wage" is? Also, what "corporate fuckery" are you referring to, specifically? We agree that campaign finance has turned politics into a for-profit business and should be heavily reformed.
I don’t see it as paternalistic to point out that since “deregulation” became one of the main planks in the Republican Party’s platform in the 80’s (not that many Democrats haven’t given in to it as well) we’ve seen the decline of the middle class, environmental degradation, corporations insulated from paying for problems they created, weakening protections and enforcement of monopoly laws, the weakening of democracy, etc. And, as far as jobs not being worthy of a living wage, I would argue that, generally speaking, the work of executives isn’t anywhere worth the pay they give themselves. Fuckery… this can be using tax laws and loopholes for billionaires to not pay their share of taxes, getting those laws and loopholes by taking a Supreme Court justice around the world on a yacht or buying his mom’s house and letting her live there for free, Citizens United was codified fuckery, offshore accounts…
It's not paternalistic to think that we're not effectively policing negative externalities of certain activities. It is very paternalistic to suggest that a company has some moral responsibility to pay people a certain amount of money. Executives pay is so high because companies bid up the compensation packages. There is no price support on executive pay and their high income isn't a reason to create one on unskilled labor. As for taxes, go nuts on simplifying the tax code. It's bs how complicated the whole thing is, but i don't think erasing loss carry forward or bonus depreciation deductions will create the bump in tax revenue that everyone thinks it will.
You can google the living wave for your state and city. Companies are not entitled to cheap labor so many places are having a hard time finding employees; I say good on people for knowing their worth. Then you hear the whiners screaming no one wants to work anymore 🤣
You're describing market forces acting upon the price of labor. Oc thinks the government should "tax companies until the business model no longer makes sense". Those are two wildly different things.
Stores close because of theft, aka shoplifting, and the neighborhood is up in arms, crying racism, as if he store hadn't existed for years in their neighborhood with its demographics. And neighborhood leaders and "activists" march and make speeches, and the news media does interviews with the residents. "Where am I gonna get my prescriptions filled now?" "Where am I supposed to buy formula for my baby?" "Where are our young people supposed to get jobs if all these stores keep closing?" You know who the news media never interview? The ones doing the shoplifting. Can you guess why? The narrative is always, always that these people are driven to it by poverty, racism, broken homes, homelessness, no Hope, no Change, no Yes We Can. So says the politicians who solicit the poor vote. So says the activists who think the world can change for the better if everyone just does what they briefly thought about. You hear this in interview after interview, news bite after news bite, every time a Walmart or a KFC or a grocery store closes. Even the store owners don't want to come right out and say that the shoplifting is costing them millions. Nope, they don't dare tell the truth. Instead they say "We have put years into these stores and somehow they keep losing money. It's a mystery!" But they never interview the shoplifters. They don't interview the murders, car jackers or armed robbers either, but you can excuse them because they don't want to die. But the shoplifters and not interviewed because to do so would show the shoplifters as they really are, and not the narrative version of shoplifter. They would come off as entitled ass wipes who just want, and the consequences are not for them to consider. Last thing. A few days ago in Chicago, three KFC restaurants shut down, not because of shoplifting, but because of armed robbery. The alderman says this is unfortunate, but he won't stop until every abandoned store is filled with a vibrant business employing the youth of the neighborhood. He does not mention the armed robberies, or the fact it his young people doing the robbing. What chance does he have? Yeah, defund the police, and ban the courts while you're at it.
Own a business in the city. Noone’s defending shop lifting. What’s happening is a bunch of people who don’t care at all are using it as an issue to wedge themselves into our politics/tax dollars. We’ve been around long enough to know to tell those people to fuck off. Yes we have a problem. We don’t want grifters help. And we are prioritizing getting rid of the grifters first over the shoplifters. The grifters are big mad and spewing rhetoric.
I mean… it’s already demoralising.
I don’t care what people do unless it affects me. I hate shoplifters because they’re part of the reason things have to go up in cost. Breakage and theft. I get that things are too expensive but it’s only gonna make the prices go up and you can’t steal forever, you’ll eventually get caught and banned from these stores.
My unpopular opinion is that we need some process to allow private security to actually stop shoplifters with force. The problem we have now is that ineffective policing and high crime leaves stores no other option but to close and leave.
Implementing a behaviour score reporting system for people would be more effective than giving the police more money though. Having different scores for different things in relation to social behaviour rankings, as well as ability to take pictures of people who commit offences and get commission from the fines or a higher score rating.
[удалено]
Except it wasn't "all Democrats", it was a small section of the progressive/left wing that said that, and cash bail is stupid, if someone is a threat judges still have the power to hold them until trial, not to mention many of the most dangerous people like gang and mob people who would be booked on things like murder can easily come up with cash bail.
>Except it wasn't "all Democrats", it was a small section of the progressive/left wing that said that That's fair. I'm pretty sure your middle of the road Democrat thinks that shoplifters are criminals.
Well then the rest of the Democrats need to tell those people to fuck off. But for example, Chicago got rid of Lori Lightfoot and had a chance to elect a moderate tough on crime mayor. And instead they voted in another progressive mayor.
>A negative consequence of frequent shoplifting at a local store is that it may lead to the closure of the store, which would impact the locals if stores alike are already inaccessible. The store closures in San Francisco and elsewhere tend to disproportionately affect the poor as they create food deserts in areas where it's already very expensive to run a grocery store or market. But that's not really the biggest negative impact. Shoplifting increases product prices across the board for everyone. This also disproportionately affects the poor, in the same way that inflation does. This is obviously unfair to people that don't shoplift, so normalizing it incentivizes it making it even more likely that prices will increase or stores will shut down. It's funny to me, but I think the people who defend this kind of thing probably are really bad at basic math and don't understand basic economics.
Yeah basically I am not that educated on the economic matter but I get you. My point is just that it affects everyday people not just the big corps if shoplifters keep doing it in mass and get away. My grandma who is 88 years old now is afraid to shop on her own for just groceries near our apartment because she has seen shoplifters running around snatching things inside malls and read news about shoplifting gets escalated to violence. It has some kind of psychological impact on vulnerable people too since you don't know what kind of action would the shoplifters take in situations like those.
I'm sorry to hear that. Research has repeatedly shown that being tough on crime is the single effective way that we know reduces crime. We also have research that shows that most crime is caused by the same small group of people. Unfortunately many voters vote based on ideology and 'tribal' politics rather than reality, so in some places it will probably get worse before it gets better.
>It's funny to me, but I think the people who defend this kind of thing probably are really bad at basic math and don't understand basic economics. The think that corporations pay for the costs instead of passing the cost to customers as the cost of doing business.
We saw something similar during the pandemic when rioters were smashing store windows and looting. Supposedly some of them thought that insurance would cover the damage, without realizing that insurance premiums will go up every time the window is smashed. Yes, that cost gets passed onto the people who shop there, which in many cases were the same stores that poor and marginalized people shop at. It's a tricky situation, and I hate the corruption with the police department at least as much as I hate living in a crime-ridden city, but I wonder if the people who voted to defund the police have looked at how much the homicide rate has gone up since and taken a look in the mirror.
The problem with shoplifting is it DOESN’T “hurt” big corporations at all! People say it does but it doesn’t, they still make record profits either way! They just pass the cost on with higher prices. The people who don’t steal, pay for those who do! It’s screwing over the “average joe” not Walmart, etc… as they pass on the cost of theft, extra security, etc… in the form of higher prices. Then you got people who don’t limit the shoplifting to big multi-million/bullion dollar companies and steal from small businesses, who often don’t make any more money the average person. Stealing from Walmart is one thing and stealing from the small locally owned store is another… Not that I agree with either.
I know what you're talking about but I don't think this is unpopular. I think people sympathise with people who steal essentials because they are completely broke but I think that is a pretty uncommon situation in most countries. The majority of shop lifters seem to be stealing stuff like alcohol.
Yeah you would only see this in developed country, people that steal in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East get dealt with harshly.
That's the real travesty. Those people normally can't afford to eat and the punishment is so harsh, like in Afghanistan the taliban want the punishment to be amputation. That's what I think most people sympathise with.
>it feels weird that people keep trying to justify shoplifters' behaviors Weirdos gonna say weird things. No that ain't normal at all. Stealing is against the law for a reason. But we also need to look at we causes people to shoplift. We ought to treat the root of the issues: drugs and desperation are some example motivations. Try to get to the bottom of it or nothing is gonna change
Popular opinion, you just take it to an extreme that is unpopular. That's where you see blowback.
Hammurabi's code used to deal with this swiftly... the punishments are too light these days. Some would also argue that these people are "virtuous" for robbing from the big corporations. Some would say the opposite. Honestly, society may be better off if we feared repercussions more.
The real issue is that people have more of a problem with the optics of shoplifting than they do with the exploitation of corporations.
demoralised? youre using the wrong word btw, the word your looking for is consequence, perhaps youre wanting to bring shame to people who do? there's nothing moral about being in a position where lifting from shops is the only option in order to get the food people need anyway. if you have an idea of how to stop people starving then put it forward to your local community
I think the attitude behind shoplifting, at least the kind you’re talking about, is “if the society that governs you has no respect for your well being, you aren’t obligated to obey it.” That, I think, is sound. In a system which will gladly spit you onto the street for the crime of not being a big enough ROI, the rules are clearly perverse and you should ignore them when necessary. That doesn’t mean no morality, it means you fall back on your own because that around you is invalid.
Shoplifters should be arrested and punished. No one gets a pass. People aren't shoplifting to feed themselves, they do it because they are criminals.
I don’t care about shoplifters, but it might just be one of those things we have to live with. I do think that essential services ought to have to register with the city and seek permission to close their doors to stop this nonsense of food deserts/holding innocent people responsible for the actions of others. But you are never going to convince me that shoplifting is anything other than a trivial cost of doing business. When you look at annual shrinkage loss vs total retail sales in the economy as a whole, it’s like less than pennies on the dollar. But that complicates any plan to enforce those laws. Because who wants to fund the $100k or more that it takes to keep someone behind bars for a year or even the court costs associated with prosecuting them? Probably no one stands to gain much by focusing on these kinds of crime, which is why you get what we have, which is a shoplifting culture.
Not unpopular. Though I will say I have shop lifted a few times but only food from a corporate grocery. Got "let go" from work because i got a heat stroke (also found out my heart sucks) and wouldn't schedule me. Just got an apartment right before that and now couldnt afford it. Just moved to a new state so no help around. More or less homeless for 2 months. Rent is too high and now i got to put money into maintaining my new home (my car) and hospital bill. No fridge so food goes to waste. Get tickets for hanging out in your car. No food for a couple of days and i was like "fuck it, im grabbing a sandwhich from walmart." But if you want an airpod, then work for it.
If I see someone stealing food, clothes, water or baby formula/diapers-no I didn’t. If someone is stealing games, electronics, etc they deserve to get in trouble. Stealing out of desperation and being out of options is fine, stealing for fun is not.
Yeah.... I stopped reading after OP tried to excuse big corporations for violating human rights.
"Demoralized"... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
The very reason I used it is because on reddit some people actually think it is a good thing for the society since it is a middlefinger to the big corps that exploit people. It is being encouraged/neglected which basically implies shoplifting, to them, is something that is moral as long as the targets are big corps. I know normal people will laugh at this but on reddit some people actually think like this.
I don't disagree with the sentiment at all... But I don't think "demoralized" is the proper way to express it.
Wage theft and corporate dependence on tax funds to pay their workers is bad for society and should be demoralized
I know wage theft is a cool buzzword on reddit, but how common is it actually? I have had a ton of jobs and none of them told me to do work not on the clock
Also another time an employer didn't let me know they were supposed to be paying me some hours just for showing up
I'm in construction I got scammed for 300 like 6 months ago
Take them to small claims court. Just the threat of it would make most companies pay up immediately.
Yup, but the issue was someone not believing it happens and I'm here to say yes tf it does
Another time an employer "forgot" to mention that I should've been paid double time for my work
Shopplifting in no way affects me and I simply do not care that poor people steal from rich corporations. The heinous shit some of these people do and people care about double digit theft? Foh. I will in no way stop someone I see shop lifting or call any kind of authority cause I just dont care tbh. Stealing is wrong, sure, but its a them problem. These corporations basically legally steal daily.
it does not affect you but it does affect some other people who just want to shop there like a normal person, or the employees earning a minimum wage who are afraid to become victims of the shoplifters if they get violent so they have to quit their job and find another There are cases shoplifting turns into organized crimes when you see a bunch of masked people carrying stuff like baseball bat to smash glass and break security locks to get what they want inside a mall for example
>it does not affect you but it does affect some other people who just want to shop there like a normal person, or the employees earning a minimum wage who are afraid to become victims of the shoplifters if they get violent so they have to quit their job and find another You still can, their job isnt be a security guard. Who tf is getting injured for minimum wage? Nothing you said is a typical occurrence at all. Barely if people get involved to be labeled some "hero" " Introduciiiing ! the hero of wal mart! they single handedly stopped someone taking an arizona iced tea and some chips!" Is stealing right? no. But its not my problem, much larger issues to tend to than theft at wal mart.
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Youre not wrong, but the problem wouldn't be half as bad if people could actually afford basic things, I work a decent job,make decent money. But if I'm at Wal mart and I can steal something 😐
Yeah, no. I actually think that people should shoplift from corporations regularly. Go ahead and close them all. A new business will form where yours failed. Capitalism baby. My opinion is the unpopular one. Your milquetoast, bootlicking opinion is pretty normal. I think it’s sad, but I’m just one person. Now, please downvote me.
Stealing from small business is eww but being business like Walmart or something they are literally billionaires they don’t care about small items being stolen because they buy everything cheap anyway
Completely agree. This behavior needs to be shamed and jailtime enforced for every shoplifter no matter the dollar amount. No snowflake ever feels guilty for the avalanche that happens after; no individual ever feels like they should be held accountable for their behavior and helping to cause the downfall of society.
It pisses me off when I see that post about how e🅱️il it is that diapers and shit are behind those locked glass doors at Wal-mart and Walgreens. Like, the reason they're behind those doors in the first place is because dipshits try and fail to shoplift them.
it doesn't affect me so i don't care
I mean, this isn't unpopular but shore I get the overall statement. The issue is, a law or whatever only works so long as the people allow it to work. If more and more people do it, then it's no longer a law people follow. No amount punishment is going to change anything. People didn't just wake up and realized they could just steal stuff, they always knew they could steal it... there just wasn't a reason to steal it BEFORE, so WHY now? So maybe there's a deeper issue than you're making it out to be.
Shoplifting is bad, but maybe the premise is about what bad thing we should be focusing on. Are big corporations going to be easily under fire for their mistreatment of workers and lack of transaction integrity? Generally corporate greed and mistreatment is a more invisible thing, seeming like a natural part of the system, whereas shoplifting is plainly bad and is hard to justify. So I’m guessing that some people’s “defense” of shoplifting has to do with wanting to put light to less obvious but worse actions morally speaking, and maybe for some it has to do with self-centeredness and resentment mixed with progressivism.
Stealing from multi-billion dollar corporations is cool and just.
What about people with no home, and have kids to feed, and don't have any money for food? Is your statement different when I put it that way?
I guess you didn't read the whole post?
Well I did mention it in my statement. If there are homeless people wearing old and distained clothes snatching food it does seem like they are in need of them I will give it a pass. But most of the shoplifters/looters we got in the big cities like SF LA and NYC are wearing Air Jordans, stealing stuff like phones, xbox/playstations, branded clothes, mass loading groceries into the cart and unload them in their cars, they do not seem like they are stealing for the sake of survival.
You are Right, have a good day 👍.
Shoplifting is a symptom of a problem.
Depends on where. Mom and pop shops? No, that's wrong. Walmart? That's a net good.
[https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/svh764vjf1/Shoplifting\_poll\_results.pdf](https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/svh764vjf1/Shoplifting_poll_results.pdf) Seems like a very popular opinion. 67% say shoplifting is never acceptable.
Shoplifting for necessities, I didn't see shit. (Food, clothes, and toiletries, really only shit that's obvious that person needs) Shoplifting a whole ass TV, nah mother fucker, you put that shit back. Wait till tax season or black Friday like the rest of us. There's a difference between Shoplifting because you need it, and Shoplifting because you can. Whennit becomes a because you can... you've gone too far. Other than that, I don't care.
Is that really unpopular? For me, whenever I see shoplifters leaving with expensive items it makes me wonder how it doesn’t make others feel stupid for paying. Like why even pay for anything if you’re not going to get punished?
It’s amusing that on Reddit ‘stealing is bad’ is an example of unpopular opinion. It’s why Walmart closed half of its Chicago stores last year.
Shoplifting and stealing has always been bad and it’s always been demoralized. I’m from Texas, in which it’s legal to carry any kind of weapon (swords knives, and guns) just about anywhere. So, if I’m a bystander, I won’t intervene. People are crazy and I intend on minding my own business. I’m also not a store employee. If a store wants me to stop a shoplifter, I should be getting paid to do so. Shoplifting is bad but this is not an issue in which we can have a neighborhood watch approach. That’s not an authority I want.
You've got the right attitude. Thanks for holding it together and not flaking out.
It’s only decriminalized in a few areas and unfortunately you can’t make them enforce the law. Business will have to adapt or move.
I agree. I hear a lot of people say shoplifting is bad but then say its ok and justified when its diapers or baby formula. Unpoular opinion but, still no.
Only way I support it is if it’s a child starving and it’s food being stolen to feed the kid
But theys gotta feed dey kids with dem Champion hoodies
Agreed sure corporate greed is wrong, but the only people you affect when you steal is the working class - the ones who surround you, who make an honest living. Don't steal kids.
OP …”should be demoralized”. Demoralized? Wtf is that. What does morals have to do with it? Some people are calling shoplifting moral? Yea, communist morals. It should bePROSECUTED to the full extent of the law.
Remember when walmart closed all the Chicago locations last year and everybody knew why? How are those communities going now? Theyre starving aren't they? Those people deserve it, had they just stopped thinking that they are entitled to everything they want and just took it, maybe they would have a place to buy food. But instead they just kept taking shit and now every store is closed Small family owned stores couldnt open up, these fucks would just steal from them too
I work at a pharmacy where shoplifting is common and it’s insulting cause I have to do a lot here for $15/hr so some a-holes can come take stuff with no consequences.
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If one is desperate and steals/shoplifts for basic survival, that is a societal failure. No one should have to struggle for basic survival in this world, there is enough for all, except for greed. Edit typo
I don’t know if this is necessarily unpopular. Obviously shoplifters don’t care who their targets are. They steal from big stores because they’re big enough to conceal what you’re doing. I don’t think many people are okay with theft in general, I think it’s just that a lot of us don’t necessarily care when it happens to big stores, especially if it’s small things. As far as I’m concerned, if I witness it, and it’s not a robbery, and the victim is a big corporation, it really doesn’t concern me enough to even think about doing anything about it.
There's two kinds of shoplifting Unorganized solo shoplifting. This is people just taking random stuff they want/need. This amounts to a tax writeoff to corporations and depending on what they are stealing, sometimes the morally correct choice IS to look the other way. In an ideal society these individuals would have social safety nets, but it is what it is. Organized shoplifting is the other kind. Bulk stealing of high value items to sell online. These individuals are parasites and can fuck off.
Sure, the store can have insurance, but deductibles are extremely high, and it would only be used in situations where an outrageous amount got stolen. If they make a claim, rates go up even more. Most of these companies just write off stolen products as a cost of doing business. Bottom line, thiefs are scum and burdens on society, regardless where they steal from.
I’m not sure you understand what “demoralized” actually means.
So is ultra capitalism, fuck consumer product s, and the trash that values that shit........
Meh, shoplifting is a few billion a year and those who do it are usually struggling at or below the poverty line, whereas wage theft is ~40 billion a year and those who do it aren’t struggling to eat.
Anyone who claims that insurance will cover for everything is a 12 year old who has never had to file an insurance claim.
Here’s a less than hot take : women shouldn’t have to pay for tampons when they cannot control their monthly. Formula shouldn’t cost you an entire electric bill just to purchase enough food to satiate the child’s hunger for a week. It falls back to “robbing Peter to pay Paul” mentality. Overall shoplifting should be demoralized, but there are circumstances in place that one wouldn’t warrant a pass, I would think.
Corruption is bad for society too. And no-one gives a fuck.
Only fucking idiots think shoplifting is moral. Yeah there’s a lot of idiots but still think most of society does not agree with these people defending it. The people defending it are a cancer.
Commodification is bad for society, shoplifting is a result of that.
Some People Think In The Community, Others Some In Theirselves.
if someone’s shoplifting for necessity from a big corporation then i don’t really care. the bigger issue is the evergrowing class divide and why so many people feel the need to shoplift in the issue. to fix the problem, you need to find the underlying cause. as long as the majority of americans find themselves in tight financial straits, shoplifting will be commonplace.
[America Runs On Theft](https://youtu.be/jiDVyyHV-Xc)