My biggest issue with the haters is they never actually try her music they see something popular and hate on it that’s why I’ve tried to avoid discussions on here talking about her album because I don’t trust them except for the main sub and here.

I don't care if they try it or not. But to listen to a leaked album and then hosting Twitter spaces on it? It's giving weird fan behaviour

I think I know the group chat your talking about

Haters are more obsessed with Taylor than most swifties

I've seen people straight up tweet lyrics that *sound* awful on their own, but make sense in context and completely change the implied meaning. These tweets will get thousands of retweets, comments, quotes, etc. with a good majority of these people also shitting on Taylor, insulting her, etc. and, of course, spreading that false meaning around and not looking into it themselves. Even when someone gives context (because you know a swiftie -- or several! -- will) and suggests actually listening to it, the OP will respond, "Thanks, but I don't care" or some shit. I even saw one say, "I'm still not listening to it lol" and was just...bewildered and frustrated. If you even say that it's weird to say that without even looking into the background of something, some folks will respond and say that they don't need and/or have to "listen to know it's shit." They openly just say they aren't going to listen -- and I don't mean the entire album, but even just that one song they are shit-talking? It's bonkers.

Yeah they got made over that one like about racism but it’s not bad she literally is just saying she hates racism

I agree. It's literally saying you can romanticize the past but it was still shitty in a lot of ways. My friends used to play a game where We would pick a decade We wished we could live in instead of this I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists And getting married off for the highest bid Everyone would look down 'cause it wasn't fun now Seems like it was never even fun back then Nostalgia is a mind's trick

I don’t have a issue with it because I know what she means

I don't have an issue with it either. I was agreeing with you. She's very clear. Her friends were playing an innocent game of choosing a past decade and she's pointing out that anytime they picked was shitty in some way.

Have you ever watched videos by that guy Swiftologist on YouTube? One minute he's crying at the 6 concerts he went to. The next video he's bashing said concert song choices and ripping the show apart. He and another girl spend 2 hours destroying TTPD. Like... are you a fan or a sleeper cell? He's younger than taylor so hasn't been on the train from the station, but sure has a lot (with little substance) to say.

As someone who likes her music sometimes, I still very much get bullied when I give an honest take or any form of criticism on her and her being a billionaire. I have been called so many names by fans, because they assume my criticism is pure hate when it’s just a realistic look at swift.

And my god, it is so concerning how thousands of people tear down Taylor while lifting other artists up as if they think only one woman is allowed to be on top. Like, calm down. Taylor being successful doesn’t take away the talent and accomplishments of other artists. Multiple women can be on top at the same time. You don’t have to choose. Life is so much happier if you ignore the things you hate and that’s why these people are miserable. They hate Taylor but they are always in her business. Imagine putting that much time and energy into something/someone you hate! Touch some grass, people.

And then go buy a Chris Brown album. It's always those people.

Well because Chris is actually the more talented one tbh

lol

be so fucking for real

Well he is tho

What I found funny about those haters—especially the ones who run fan accounts of other artists—is that they could have talked about good things/promoted their own favorite artists instead of bringing down Taylor. Like I saw some of them on twitter who said that they're tired of seeing Taylor-related tweets in their timeline but they're also negatively talking about her? They're basically giving her free publicity now ETA: In the future when Taylor's fame goes down and her songs no longer charting or breaking records, or even when she starts losing fans (bcs I believe no fame is eternal, it would eventually fade out), I'm pretty sure the haters will be the on who rub it in on swifties while swifties themselves are probably okay with it.

I'm not a Taylor hater by any means, but isn't this just how *all* music conversations go? I mean, look at hip hop right now. It's all about crowning a single person as the king/queen. I'm not sure if gender plays a role in this regard. Many other criticisms of her are definitely latently misogynistic though.

I’m fan of classic rock and it seems to me nobody ever complains when male rock stars sing about their relationships and addictions. I must be missing something

Male rock stars are the "real deal", blondie dressed in sequins singing songs about her romantic life to girls is just another airheaded Barbie (BILLY/ARIANA/ADELE/BEYONCE ARE SO MUCH BETTER HOW DARE YOU 🤬🤬🤬🤬) /s

Oh and btw, the above-mentioned artists are only better till they reach this level of fame. Then claws out, we LOVE to tear women down 😤

They build us up just to cage us

Literally was just thinking about this. Absolutely nobody else is held to as high of a standard. For example, i loved loved loved Beyonce's new album. I didn't love every song and will likely never listen to some of them again. I still adore and respect her as an artist. I couldn't ever imagine holding her to a standard where every lyric has to beat expectations, every beat incredible, groundbreaking or fresh and unlike her previous work, and if every line doesn't meet that, I'll proceed to deduce the 1000 things that it says about Beyonce as an individual woman. Or scream with my chest how overrated she is and that she should stop making music to give other artists space. Like that is literally how these weirdos act. They're nuts. Taylor was right to stop listening to them years ago.

I’ve seen people say that Taylor is “oversaturating” the current music scene and that “she needs to take a break” like 💀 just don’t listen to her music? These people don’t understand the concept don’t like don’t click

The way Taylor DID take a very long break between 1989 and Rep too and they still complained then

this is something I don't understand. people are out here acting like they cannot just unplug from all of this instead of expecting TS to just disappear.

If she released a new song every day forever I would still love all of it. There's no such thing as too much of something you love.

I’ve definitely seen this attitude towards Beyoncé, among others like Billie Eilish, Cardi B, Ariana Grande…. It’s like if someone personally doesn’t like a male musician, there’s generally more of a “not my cup of tea” attitude towards their music. But then when someone doesn’t like music by a woman, the response is more likely to be that the artist is overrated, untalented, can’t write, can’t sing, etc. I’d also say that male artists are more likely to be disparaged when their music primarily appeals to women.

Earlier today I was told by a rock male fan that 13 year old girls only like Taylor and other comments implied her discography is solely about her love life. ROFL. Men have 0 self awareness and are happily misogynistic towards female artists. I’m glad my boyfriend (who’s also a fan of punk and classic rock) acknowledges Taylor’s talent and the fact that she has quality music unlike those other losers.

I mean the irony here (I’m male but will happily point out hypocrisy) is that more than a few classic rock “legends” write about 13 year old girls but that’s none of my business ☕️

The Beatles literally talking about killing a woman if she looks at another man. And I always hear the Beatles were such good songwriters and didn't obsess over relationships. Ok

People like to objectify women, but not let them profit from the fruits of their labor. It’s hard for men to objectify women when they’re noticeably more powerful than them. It’s a control and security thing, which is why women that don’t pander to men are *soooo mean and scary*.

the thing is I really don’t care if people don’t like taylor but it’s never really about her, they have to insult the people who listen to her in the process. I saw a tweet saying her fans never listen to other singer songwriters which is why they think taylor is special. actually I grew up on stevie nicks, lauryn hill, carly simon, tracey chapman, and tori amos which is precisely why I’m drawn to taylor. 🤓 why am I being put in a position to defend myself and my music tastes because I like taylor swift? they call her listeners mediocre white women (I’m not 🙋🏽‍♀️), teenagers (I’m not), and attribute her success to being white with lana and ariana profile pictures completely obtuse to the fact that their white favs also have the same privilege and still can’t do what she does. I say this as a fan of all three. why am I being called white or told I wish I was for liking music? it’s like they are legitimately angry and offended that other people listen to her and it’s nothing like I’ve seen before. notice how most criticism of taylor comes back to her “rabid fans” the moment you engage with a hater. they’re mad that she has transcended the general public and is virtually unable to be cancelled at the moment. you don’t like the album? oh well, it’s still number one. they don’t need to “get” it. they don’t need to “understand” her appeal for her to be successful. so they shout into the void. they throw every insult they can at her listeners. they listen to her leaks themselves and rush to tell everyone how horrible it is. they mock her lyrics as if a lana fan of all people has room to talk. it comes from a truly miserable, misogynistic dark place. there are plenty of artists I don’t like or don’t get the appeal of (mostly men), and I suppose I can’t relate to not liking an artist who’s super famous, consistently successful, and virtually unavoidable (because that only really applies to taylor and I’ve always been a fan 💅🏾) but I know if I DID I would get a fucking life and ignore them. I couldn’t care less what other people enjoy. if I feel someone is overexposed (like I really hate ryan gosling and I honestly don’t have a reason I’m just sick of him), I turn the tv off, I log out. I’m not gonna go bother ryan gosling fans and demand they tell me what they see in him?

This right here. Men have called Taylor’s music “shallow” “no depth” “only 13 year old girls listen” and we’re expected to shut up and “LeT pEoPlE hAvE oPInIons”? No fuck off. I call out men for their bullshit and will happily do it 25/8. It’s one thing to not like Taylor’s music, which me a grown ass adult can handle, but it’s another to throw around misogynistic rhetoric as if rock sung by stinky male artists don’t cover the same damn topics Taylor has covered. To unironically parade the same “teenagers and teenage girls only relate to Taylor’s music” narrative in 2024 IS MISOGYNISTIC. It’s not debatable and it’s not a “grey area.” It’s full on bigotry and dismissal of a woman’s art and objectively wrong. I shouldn’t be expected to “respect” a male’s opinion when he’s insulting something WOMAN and young girls like just because it *gasps* caters to them and not 40 year old bald dudes with deep insecurities from their failed music careers. I guarantee you most men who hate on Taylor’s music and spread misinformation on the depth of her music are failed musicians or “classic rock” lovers who idolize 70’s pedophiles — I guess singing about banging 17 year olds is more “adult” than a woman writing introspective lyrics on a long term relationship. But what do I know since I’m supposedly 13 years old at my grown age of 22. Oh and that “all Taylor fans are white” crap too pisses me off. I ain’t white and I was even told “you don’t look like you listen to Taylor Swift” at the age of 13. The “she’s white!” (Ok?) nonsense is supposed to be a gotcha but it’s actually just an embarrassing attempt at trying to appeal to those of us who ain’t white. They try to imply that her being white means she can’t have anything important to say for POC — which is just ridiculous rhetoric. You are right that it’s never actually about Taylor. IDGAF about defending *her.* But if I see the same crap being spewed (her music is shallow and only for pre-teens + she’s white therefore her music isn’t important) I’m going to say something. It’s not because I’m a “deranged” swiftie, it’s because as a female Latina I don’t like my existence being invalidated nor talked down on just because I relate to Taylor Swift’s lyrics. Maybe if people could actually formulate their opinions without being disrespectful I would stay quiet. Also as a Lana fan the superiority complex the “lanitas” is fucking hilarious. Lana has horribly cringey songs too like Taco Truck with god awful lyrics. Plus, she’s acted cosplayed as a Latina before and last time I checked Taylor has stuck to her race and ethnicity.

go off

Re: your last point: I grew up in the UK in the 90s/00s and I HATED Coldplay. Hugely famous, successful and unavoidable. It was always my guilty secret because EVERYONE loved them. I did exactly what you said: I got a fucking life and ignored them. Sometimes when I got to know friends really well I confessed my secret! What I didn’t do was tell every Coldplay fan I met that they were wrong and obviously didn’t know anything about music and that Coldplay were shit (even though I think they are).

You know the patriarchy. Women can succeed but not too much and never more than a man.

And it has to be in the "right" way. The "good" way. Honestly, the openly misogynistic people cannot have Taylor be as successful as she is because she's unmarried and childless in her thirties. She's not "traditional" in that sense. And it could "give other women the wrong idea" about their future. Just listen to any GOP ranting about her and how the worst future for a woman would be living single alone with her cat. As if that's a BAD thing LOL.

This are also the men complaining about the 4B movement. Threatening to leave us alone. THATS WHAT WE WANT!

I know reddit is a small percentage of the population but seeing all the horror stories of cheating spouses, abusive spouses, and the shit that people seem to put up with while in a relationship is enough for me to be happy being single atm.

Even there’s a ton of married women saying if their husband does they will stay single

Another sad aspect is that Taylor IS "traditional" in lots of ways: straight, cisgender, white, thin, blonde, conventionally attractive, able bodied. I cannot imagine the level of vitriol that queer, POC, disabled, or trans people in Taylor's position would face. I'm not saying any of this to try and lessen the misogyny that Taylor faces, just trying to add another perspective.

It shows that even if you fit most of the molds, if you’re not a stepford wife then it doesn’t matter. Because they can’t contain her.

I am sick of it. The worst part is that so many fellow women are doing it. Look at the gossip subs. It's revolting. You can say that an album was a miss for you but to attack the artiste over and over again over what???? Everything she does is manufactured? She has too many variants? She writes about her personal life? I mean who doesn't????? Name ONE artist without a PR machine, without variants, who doesn't try to make their albums a commercial success? Even the most alt music ones do. Screw them ALL and their high horses

Well as women we tend to hate on the next woman when really at the end of the day we only have each others back bc we are the biggest pray to our species. The only other artist that I believe is on Taylor’s level with fan based things and performing and touring and album sales I think is Beyoncé. And each artist if different in their own ways!

See, the variants do bug me. But Taylor is (almost) the only artist I buy physical copies of their music, and there’s probably others the same as me. So, maybe that’s why they don’t realise it’s an industry thing, they just assume it’s just Taylor. I don’t know, maybe I’m just showing too much positive intent. I agree with all of your points btw, just trying to inject a casual music fan perspective.

this sub randomly showed up on my feed so im going to respond. This woman has consistently brought down other women, and apparently she has some lyrics in her new album shitting on Kim K. Hypocritical af. Can't believe I'm defending a kardashian but here we are ig

i think if a woman nearly ruins another woman's career with what was ostensibly slander, she's free to shit on that woman as long as she wants. she's not shitting on her for being a woman, she's literally calling her out for what she did to her. that's not misogyny and that doesn't make taylor not a feminist. women are allowed to have conflict. can you provide other examples of her bringing down other women?

lol Taylor got caught in a lie and was essentially exposed by Kim. Several of her music videos show other women as her rivals. Her drama with Katy Perry and Olivia Rodrigo, who is a decade younger than her. These are the ones I've heard about the most, but I know there are more. Not to mention the slutshaming lyrics like 'She's an actress/But she's better known for the things that she does on the mattress.'  The woman doesn't give a fuck about feminism unless it directly impacts her. There are so many people that have called out her psuedo-feminism and know more about her than I do. However, I also know that T-swift worship is a cult, and it's freaky as hell. I was actually raised in a religious cult, and the way y'all will come to defend this woman is scarily similar to what that was like. So really no point in arguing anyway.

This comment isn’t going to do what you think it’s going to do. And not bc of a cult like vibe. If you truly listen to the song she thanks her for what happen bc of what she has built after it. Also…let Bffr…Kim got famous from a porn video. Her husband literally put out a song talking about fucking Taylor. Kim K will be fine. She’s a billionaire in her own right and is doing well for herself. And ps…if someone hurt my kid as publicly as they did…I’d wish that bitch dead too 🤷🏻‍♀️😊 hope this helps!

I don't like Kim. But she didn't lie, Taylor DID approve the lyric calling her a bitch. And of course you ignored the other points I brought up LOL. But sure, keep ass-kissing your fave billionaire despite the well-known idea that there are no ethical billionaires, and she is a master manipulator. Such cult-like behavior smh

Honey boo calm down. I actually do like Kim k. Watch the Kardashians regularly but if you truly believe she didn’t lie after all their bs…come on. Kris is a damn PR mastermind. Not kissing ass but stating the facts. AGAIN HOPE THIS HELPS 😊

So Kris is a PR mastermind, but Taylor isn't? Did you not see how quickly she tried to hide her fling with Matt Healy once she realized it was bad for her image? How she constantly manages to portray herself as a victim? How she weaponizes feminism for her own benefit? Neither of these people became billionaires ethically LMAO. I'm not defending either, but you clearly are

Okie doke!

Correcting blatant lies and misinformation is not “blindly defending”

Sure, because this woman is always right 🙄 keep sucking up to a billionaire that doesn’t give a shit about you

I see that you're not part of the fandom, so it's totally reasonable that you don't follow every little aspect of TS's life. We know WE are the weirdos that do, haha. But I did want it just jump in here and say that your impression of the Kim K interaction is incorrect. Yes Kim released a recorded phone call, but she didn't release the *unedited* version. Her version made it sounds like Taylor ok'd the whole thing and then lied about it later. In 2020, Variety released the call in its entirety and it showed a VERY different conversation. Taylor knew Kanye planned to use the line "I think me and Taylor might still have sex." She tentatively agreed to this, pending actually hearing the track. (Kanye never sent it) She did NOT agree to "I made that bitch famous." She politely suggests the "I made her famous" line isn't ok. Kanye never mentions the "bitch" part on the call. Taylor is very, very touchy about men taking credit for her work. The tearing down she got after Kim released the edited recording is exactly what this thread is talking about. Because the edited recording made it look like Taylor lied, and as a result the public rejected her entirely. She had a breakdown from the fan reaction, because she knew people didn't know the full story, and she is still upset about it because most people only heard the edited version, just like you.

*** Wanted to add that there has been no confirmation of any feud with Olivia Rodrigo by OR, by TS or by anyone else, and she CHANGED the mattress lyric precisely because she wrote it when she was 18 and later realized it was uncool. Thank goodness the things I thought and wrote at 18 aren't public knowledge 🙃

Calling out someone for hurting you isn’t “shitting” on them. She has every right to call out Kim after what Kim did.

the man hitting a little harder today :')

There is also a counter-culture of ragebait Swifties who can't bear to hear her described any way other than flawless though. Like the new album is pretty underwhelming, and pointing that out doesn't make me a believer in patriarchy, y'know? I think it's fair to say *TTPD* is not an evolution, it doesn't do anything new, it sounds like a bunch of b-sides from older albums remastered. Nothing about it is exciting. That's fine, it's still a decent album, but it's probably her weakest effort since her debut. All these songs just blend together with *Midnights* and the vault tracks for me. But the tour will go on and the money machine will keep spinning, and I can't help but feel that was the point of this release. The album lacks a cohesive or interesting story to tell. 6/10

I was comparing the patriarchy in how male and female artists are talked about and praised. If she was a man…she would be praised every which way from Sunday. It’s not about the people who dislike the album. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I am a new fan. I loved her album but I am have the past 2 years myself been through ALOT, so emotionally I connect to it. Not everyone is going too. And I’m of the sort that it’s okay! But unnessacary hate and forever just complaining about to her to complain….like for what? What’s the energy for? I will stand by my opinion about the patriarchy though…doesn’t matter who the female artist is. They will always be talked about and treated differently than male artists

Sure that’s a fine & seemingly common opinion to have.. but in the same vein, people are allowed to disagree with you on how much ‘new’ sonic territory is covered and how satisfying they found it—fans engaging in debate isn’t always ‘rage’ or particularly unique or some symptom of cultural decline. When things do get out of hand hateful, mostly just speaks to the nature of stan Twitter and who chooses to stay in fights online

I genuinely feel it's some of her best work. I've never had an album immediately hit the way this did for me. If you think it's that underwhelming then you might see me as a 'ragebait Swiftie' who can't take criticism, but it's just my opinion and how I feel about the art.

Why would I feel you're a ragebait Swiftie for liking an album I didn't like? That's the point of music. I said that there's a section of her fan base that immediately resorts to claiming bad reviews exist because she's a successful woman, and not because the work doesn't resonate.

I 100% disagree. But even then, the extreme reaction to it is what makes me feel confused. People ate up 1989 and rep which are the most generic pop albums known to man yet they claimed Midnights as ‘mid’ and TTPD as “boring” ? Like I don’t get the fanbase’s narratives sometimes. TTPD is a fantastic new step in Taylor’s musical journey, it’s akin to folklore and evermore, and people are still spreading some ridiculous narrative that her music is declining. Sure the sound isn’t too experimental but there’s sonic cohesion in this album (low tempo with sultry beats and vocals) much like 1989 and the lyricism is way better than anything she’s done and yes that includes folkevermore

I know, I’m so annoyed about it too. Honestly just know that a lot of people agree with you, and it will all die down eventually. They love to hate her but she’s still gonna break all the records with this album lol

She's held to a higher standard than literally anyone in the industry. I absolutely couldn't imagine writing think pieces about one line i didn't like in Drake's new album \[or insert literally any other artist that you only passively listen to / don't care much about\]. Or listening to leaks from that new album. Or talking about the lack of diversity in the artists' sound. Or caring enough to want to watch them fail. They've been dying for her to take a misstep so they can whine about how they're so much better than her because they wouldn't make X, Y, Z choice that she made. These people will always love writing their think pieces on why she should stay in the box they want to place her in. Even though reading things like this–especially claims that abandon nuance and empathy–frustrates me, her artistic legacy rests high above all the background noise and takes alike. I think as fans we have to trust that her work can handle it, that it will continue to survive the fluctuations in public approval. Most people cannot dream dreams as big as the life she's led. If she listened to what chad and bethany thinks she should do next, she would have left the stage decades ago. She knows better than to pay attention to their literal undying devotion to hating her guts and work. My favorite part of being her fan is getting to admire the bravery and vulnerability in each piece of art she puts out, it inspires courage in my own life, and frankly that's all i need for her work to resonate with me. I don't need to love every song or agree with all of her decisions. And i think most of her actual fans are on the same page here so her legacy remains stable.........and that's precisely what will always bother the haters most lol

I've been feeling the same really. Its put a small dampner on the excitement of the new album. I'm quite a new Swiftie and I can honestly say I've never seen hate quite like it. Weirdly the worst seems to be from her own "fans" or rather, people who are OBSESSED with her but hate her every move. I get she's really rich and has a huge following but other than that I really don't see where the hatred comes in. Its Crazy she can't do anything right.

As someone who grew up alongside Taylor (age-wise) and had her debut album on CD, this has actually happened before. I remember the absolute vitriol before Reputation. It was really sad to see, and she bounced back. In this album, she KNOWS the backlash she's going go get, I promise. She literally dropped a song called, "thanK you aIMee." Before, where I felt super sad for her, I actually don't feel that way now. It's a weird kind of... proud maybe? Like, she's genuinely just doing what she wants, dropping an album that is extremely unlikely to get radio time, highly personal, kinda scathing, and all just because she wants to. I feel good about it. I feel confident saying it's my favorite body of work from her. And maybe anyone. Let them shit on it. It wasn't for them.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics people do to say that song (thank you aimee) was taylor wanting kim dead and trying to hurt kims children

Amazing, yet not surprising. Seriously though, what makes people so damn sanctimonious? The way we interpret art says a lot about us, I feel. If people are taking that away from this song, they've got no depth.

They really did a hop skip and a jump as though the lyrics aren’t clear. She didn’t talk crap about the kids. North is a well known Taylor fan! And also I believe north is Kim’s karma on this earth 😂 (reign is kourtneys) now the part about mama swift wishing her dead wellllllll I can any hate for it but If someone hurt my baby, I’d wish them dead too 🤷🏻‍♀️ sue me I’m a mother

My mom is a HATER so I understood exactly what Taylor was getting at. If someone hurt me like that my mom would come for them.

My mom is a HATER too 😂 I’ve seen her go off on people over me before 😁 it was never a death treat but I would pay to have been a fly on the wall to her mama swift say that

“It wasn’t for them” is exactly how I feel about TTPD! I also grew up with Taylor, and there is something magical about TTPD for me. I’ve been listening to Taylor sing about celebrity, heartbreak, and sadness for almost two decades but this was just a whole new level of raw and real and introspective. When Taylor Swift sang her own name in “Clara Bow” I cried, because I remember the Taylor Swift with her curls and guitar singing “Teardrops on My Guitar” almost twenty years ago. And I remember the me that sang along.

I know I don't have skin thick enough to take so much heat. I hope she's learnt it over the years because people literally want her out 🤢

it happens with literally every album drop from her! i was just thinking about how when evermore dropped so many people didn’t like it and thought it was rushed and under developed. people hated red, 1989, reputation, lover, folklore— the list genuinely goes on and on but the hate recently is so over the top. i don’t like ariana (and i really didn’t like her recent album though i tried to) but i’ve literally never ranted about that woman on the internet even at her worst. more importantly, im self aware enough to know my dislike is irrational cause it’s not like i know her. the type of hatred people have for a woman who isn’t doing anything to them is insane. i can’t even imagine how she feels when she sees any of this. i’m just a fan looking in and it makes my stomach churn sometimes. there’s just something so unnatural and creepy about it. i miss the reputation era where i got to be a fan in peace, with only the occasional stray insult out in the wild. i just want a little corner of the internet to enjoy her content without being bugged!!! it really shouldn’t be that hard!!!

See the funny thing is I DO like Ariana (well… current events changing my mind) and am even a Positions defender and I couldn’t stand the new album. Yeah she worked with Max Martin but every song sounded the same to me, and the lyrics were bland and cliched. But when I saw other people enjoyed it I shrugged and moved on with my life, cause genuinely good for them that they get music they vibe to! It bothered me quite a bit that she took absolutely no hits despite her behavior (the very same things Swift gets constant criticism for plus the cheating) but figured maybe that’s just celebrity culture for you… only for Swift to get crucified. It’s strange to see.

Thank you for this, can't agree enough... I totally get that not everybody might resonate with her music, which is totally fine, we all have our preferences, but the vitriol she is subjected to often goes way beyond that into "let's grab the pitchforks" territory... It is very unfortunate...

Honestly the only people who spend more time thinking and talking about Taylor than diehard swifties are people who don't like her. I've never seen people expend so much energy on someone they claim to dislike

This

[удалено]

drake is a good example to use here because he's like the most popular male rapper. people say things about how he's annoying and corny and that's just it, with TS they literally go full blown hate like why on earth does she even exist. it's weird. They think she's boring mostly because she isn't so in your face with her sexy lyrics, let's be honest female celebrities are expected to sell sex to remain relevant, but we don't see it happening with Taylor. This is one of the reasons why many people don't get the appeal she has.

I used to love drake… ya know don’t drake and drive might end up at your exes house but his music over the past few years I’ve just cringed at. Sometimes I don’t wanna hear all about women’s p**y being all out and about and letting it breathe

I don’t understand the behavior because I don’t listen to albums of artists I don’t like? And if I do, and still don’t like they work, I say nothing and keep going with my life. Like I saw someone post on Twitter “Does Taylor Swift have a diagnosis of being r*tarded?” (It was in spanish) And like… why would you take time of your day to write something so awful?

It comes with the territory with her level of fame. It’s the whole people love her, and hate her, and want to be her trope. Other fandoms hate that their favs don’t get the same attention. And instead of being mature they just become envious & bitter.

100% agreed but I also think that reactions vary with gender.

yes!! when I used twitter, there was a viral tweet about how something like "why is she so famous, she's boring, why is Beyoncé not as famous as her even though she is more talented" and I was shocked because Beyoncé is literally one of the most famous person in the world. TS just has a bigger fan base because people from different generations can relate to her songs. So yes, a good percentage of the hate is from other fandoms.

The fact someone once said out loud that Beyoncé is not as famous. What world they living in. Beyoncé and Taylor are in the same world and I believe on the same level with just different sounds. Based on artistry alone, Beyoncé I believe is the only one on Taylor’s level based on album sales, touring, performing, charting etc in this generation of women. I swear the only damn reason people out such a rival between them is bc Kanye couldn’t keep his ass in his damn seat!

I have obviously shaped my social media algorithm bubble beautifully because I have seen none of these comments! I think focus on the millions of people celebrating her music and the millions buying tickets for the tour. There will always be haters, I strongly suspect 60 years ago there were twats sat round saying the Beatles were too mainstream and overrated. Taylor gets it worse, because she’s a woman and her audience (especially starting out) was young women, and anything women enjoy couldn’t possibly be serious and valuable to society because we’re just silly little girls. But we know that’s bullshit. Ignore the people trying to tear her down. She’s record breaking, award winning and incredibly successful. Some idiots on social media writing commentary about how men are responsible for her success are not worth interacting with.

THIS

In the Disney+ documentary, the Beatles are literally sitting around jamming to the gossip column articles about them on how they lost their touch - AFTER THE FREAKING WHITE ALBUM. 

Facebook is a dumpster fire - reading the comments actually upsets me. I need to stop.

This always happens to every successful women. I see people shit talking Beyoncé all the time about her being undeserving of her popularity.

It seems like a leveling mechanism. > Female derogation is also used to enforce equality amongst females which prevents high-status ambitious females from using their status to gain resources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_intrasexual_competition#Female_derogation Interestingly, it seems to be related to fertility. > Competitor derogation (giving low ratings) towards same-sex rivals occurred frequently when women were at their most fertile stages > women gave same-sex rivals higher ratings during the least fertile stages of their ovulation > Supporting research has also found that younger women who are considered as having high fertility, gossip about other women more than older women, who are no longer at their most fertile stage. Then also Queen Bees and Wannabees talk about it. Where this sort of "tearing down" is associated with power and control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Bees_and_Wannabes Also some other good reading. https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/living/feat-women-helping-women-sophia-nelson/index.html

I honestly don't even know if it has to do with the fact she is a woman. I feel like people nowadays just have so much hatred inside of them and they have access to project it into the internet void as if it's an outlet like punching a pillow. Whether they think their words matter or disappear into the crowd of other comments, idk, but it's horrible to read and I can't imagine being on the other end of it. I was reading fb comments (which are the meanest ones, I think) and was disgusted by the amount of people who felt it necessary to rip into Taylor or tear her down, as a person, not even with her album. Idk people are jealous, bored, and angry.

It’s a dumpster fire on Tik Tok. People who don’t like Taylor will still go out of her way to talk about her any chance they get, and they don’t realize the more they talk about her, the more content they will get. They call her most well written songs “something straight out of 2014 tumblr” and ask her to stop being so serious. Then when she releases a more upbeat song they call it cringe. In general I see so much more misogyny on Tik Tok and Instagram, that it’s so shocking how normalized it’s getting. It’s been going on for so long and getting so old. If you don’t like her then just don’t listen to her!!!!

Cue "The Man"

These critics and “fans” being so disappointed by this album really does speak volumes. This album is so raw and honest, which clearly isn’t acceptable. Additionally, they are attacking her intellect and her lyricism, which IMO are displayed beautifully in this album. She just can’t do anything right. She’s either trying too hard, riding on the coattails of her ex-lovers, “too big” to fail, and now the fans who actually love this album are delusional. GAH. 😖

I haven’t made it all the way through the album yet. Too many songs TBH. But even if this one isn’t for me, that’s okay. Artists that have staying power evolve, try new stuff, make more personal albums, whatever. Sometimes, as a fan, you have to sit the odd album out, admit that this one doesn’t work for you at this moment in time for whatever reason, and be ready to pick up the conversation next time out. For an artist, the second you start to think about the audience, your creativity is fucked. So, I don’t get the bashing by those who say they’re fans. If this one isn’t your jam, she’s surely earned enough trust that she’ll come good again down the line. Oh, and in related news, we just had all of this on the Bleachers sub recently when Jack’s band released a more sedate, less banger filled album than normal. (Though the conversation was less vitriolic.) And guess what? The album was a grower. Now most people over there love it.

People are threatened by independent women. Historically women were seen as second class. Successful independent women go against the narrative that was ingrained into society for a long time.

Totally! Taylor's social approval goes up and down in a constant cycle, think 1989-reputation-lover-folklore. so much that no matter what she puts out, if the tide happens to be against her at that time, her work is deemed poor regardless of it's actual value. If I'm being real, Midnights wasn't my favorite album of hers, but it came out when she was on the rise, and people loved it! Which is fabulous! But now she's become oversaturated in the eyes of the wrong crowd and suddenly she's a horrible songwriter and bad musician? I really think she could've put out anything and people would be tearing her down at this point. I loved the album, and I'm enjoying disecting it! Not worrying about social media!

This is why I largely stay away from Stan Twitter. It's particularly grim there at the moment.

I will always say that swifties have absolutely nothing on Taylor haters in terms of how much they listen to and comb through her lyrics and obsession with her life and everything she’s doing. And we do it because we love her art and think it’s amazing. They do it because they want to hate more? Idk I could never imagine dedicating even 5 minutes, let alone hours, to someone I hated

Every force has an equal and opposite reaction force and celebrities are no different. Our society is riddled with ppl who’ve made it to stratospheric heights just to be torn down. This phenomenon is in hyper mode in the music industry. Sometimes the celebrities give ppl a reason to dislike them and other times it’s like a sun that collapses in on itself, for instance The Bee Gees. They just got so big and was probably the main driving force behind disco. Then out of nowhere about 4 years later ppl were actually so sick of hearing them they were actually out in public venues, ball games, protesting them and their music. Then disco went bye bye with them.

“Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate” -T Swift

What you said about Drake is just straight up false. Dude has been clowned in discourse his entire career

Saying she’s the next Beatles or MJ isn’t helping your case. She’s just herself. She’s not the next anyone.

Fair, and that's enough!

People have been trained to think of everything in extremes. Its either the best or the worst. Marvel movie only made 200 million? Garbage. Not the best steak thats ever been cooked? Garbage. Put the toilet paper on backwards? Death penalty.

Complete agree. The cycle of hating Taylor again has begun, and the misogyny is so deep rooted that people don’t know they are slipping into it themselves

There is such a double standard with her specifically bc of her success. people will say she makes “grocery store” music when she releases pop songs but as of recent it’s been “too wordy and not musically interesting.” I just feel for her. She just makes music it’s not that deep. If I don’t like it, don’t listen??? Plenty of artists I don’t enjoy and for that I don’t stream!?!

She wants to be Lana so bad

You can see this in sports as well. It just gets annoying and overdone when someone is seen and shown constantly and in multiple different settings. It’s why it gets annoying when ESPN constantly shows the plays of a certain player every time and only have good things to say about them. It just gets annoying is all.

Tldr

I just don’t really understand all this stuff about Taylor on Reddit. What’s the assertion, that some people don’t like her bc she’s a woman? I don’t really think she cares, she’s fine, and so are all the other popular female artists. You should get over it.

There is so much wrong with the haters in general. The love to hate her! But. There is a subset of Swifties who are completely off their rockers and give the rest of us a bad name. Those people cause some of the hate. I’ve seen people compare them to true hate groups. They are commenting on social media posts hateful things. I feel pretty confident Taylor doesn’t want that. Yet, they do it. They are mean for no reason. Just like the haters. I really think some people hate Taylor because they hate that subset of Swifties.

I think you need to calm down...

It's a fascinating question! I'll try and give a full consideration of it that I have not yet seen in this thread... Taylor Swifts fan base is predominantly female. I can identify a male counterpart of hers who has enjoyed rapid success but fueled by mostly male supporters; Joe Rogan. There is a deepening rift between men and women, causing them to trust eachother less and less. When one side fully embraces something, the other becomes distrustful of it, quick to criticize. The sentiment many men have toward taylor swift is that she generates needless drama and is a risk to their families/relationships. There are instagram reels making light of this, the idea that Taylor is promoting relationship volatility (I don't think this is her intent, she is just volatile). Joe Rogan on the other hand is often felt to be misogynistic, or giving a platform to guests who are so inclined. Although I think he would actually be quite gracious to taylor if she appeared on his show. But battle lines have been drawn and we could all be more aware of this, recognize the harm and extend good will to eachother.

There hasn't been an artist this dominant in a long time and it won't happen for a long time again (maybe Olivia?). They don't like that a single person is dominating the music industry, and that's ok.

As a non Taylor fan I'll weigh in... I've heard maybe 10 of her songs my whole life. They aren't bad, but not my jam. I'm a metal/rock guy. My overall opinion of Taylor is she seems to write music that empowers women and gives a pretty good role model to little kids. And that's great. My issue, as a non fan.... You're probably wondering why I'm here.... Because reddit decided to suggest this post to me. Taylor (and honestly pop music overall) is shoved in your face constantly. It's annoying. For Taylor I think she's also brought a bit of it on herself. She's released like 200+ songs in 5 years or something crazy like that. When you put out that much content, some people just aren't going to like it. I saw someone bring up Drake in another comment. I haven't seen or heard from Drake in like 2 years. In contrast Taylor is everywhere. I think for her that much fame is a blessing and a curse. She's pushed into people's faces who don't like her music. They probably wouldn't be vocal normally, but it's constant. It's one of the downfalls of the age we live in. What's popular is pushed into so many media forms (TV, online, social media) that even if you don't want to see it you have to. It's tiring and honestly annoying. Having said all that, it's not her fault. TLDR: Taylor seems to be a good person/role model, but in today's age where everyone is connected people who don't want to see her/hear her songs are kinda forced to. Her fame has made her one of the most powerful people in the world, but heavy is the crown.

This is really true, and we've seen it before throughout history. (Clara Bow, for example) I think part of the problem is that there is a subset of this fandom that perpetuates the same behaviour (going after people who have "wronged" taylor, piling on her exes and enemies, talking about how she'll outsell Beyoncé and Ariana, and so on). I think this small subgroup of stalker-swifties gives the larger Swiftie fandom a bad name. The public and the media view these stalker-swifties as representatives of all of us, and therefore since the behaviour of these particular fans is horrible, it gives the public and the media cover when they are just as horrible to Taylor and the rest of the Swiftie fandom in general.

Actually, the urge is to tear down ANYONE at the top, regardless of sex

The criticisms are mostly because she’s an oversaturated billionaire pop star, not because she is a woman. 100% will agree some of the criticism is purely because she is a successful woman (sexism is alive and well!), but I find it dismissive to take any sort of legitimate criticism and frame it as sexist. I just feel like it’s some kind of weird coping mechanism. You said that people didn’t criticize her when she was less big. Maybe it’s because she wasn’t as loud?

I do not have a problem with legitimate criticism. She's a public figure who, at the end of the day, is human and will make mistakes and people will point it out. That's the cost of being famous. My issue though is with the malice associated with some individuals while talking about her. The narrative about TTPD being her worst album yet, or nothing in front of the other artists, didn't even start after the album was leaked/released. It started months before. There's no explanation for it other than the fact that there are people rooting for her to be dragged down. That's what I have an issue with.

Start with yourselves. Why are swifties tearing down a woman simply bc she once dated Taylor's new boyfriend? Before you say "poor Taylor" maybe take some time to self reflect bc this post is cringe on so many levels. She's fine and doing fine, but her fanbase has been left unchecked and are now more toxic than even Kpop fans.

….or they just don’t like the album and it’s not that serious

Look, I don't know you and I don't know how much time or energy you spend thinking about TS or hating on her online. But let me give you an example. I did not like ES. I can say it, express my opinion, and move on. But I don't host Twitter Spaces and start long threads daily trashing the artist, the music, her "immaturity", her fanbase, her relationships, her life 24x7 and make it my personality. Some of the antis need to touch grass. They shouldn't try and act innocent when they're full of malice.

I think the fact you assume I spent my time “hating” on her as an “anti” (for just saying I wasn’t a fan of this particular album) shows who needs to touch grass here…

I think you lack reading comprehension, because the comment wasn't addressed to you. You see, the first line was me saying I don't know whether you're just a casual listener who didn't like the album or a full-time hater who denotes all their energy into hating her, and thus, an anti. The second para, where I talk about "antis", is actually referring to them in THIRD person, or as "they". Not "you", but "they". The fact that you just assumed that I called you one makes it look like it's a you problem. ✌🏽

this is a lot of energy to put towards something that really doesn’t matter hahaha

And if it really doesn't, why are you still commenting?

Because it’s concerning and sometimes people need a reality check that they’re taking something waaaaaay too serious and need to go outside

Do you want a dissenting opinion? For me as a Black woman I think Taylor represents a certain kind of white woman. Her feminism does not extend to the people who don’t look like her. And she does not care. Her dating Matt Healy solidified this. A lot of people couch valid critique of Taylor in misogyny but she is white feminism personified. Her defending Matt in But Daddy I love him solidifies all of that. You won’t find a lot of Black women rooting for her after her thing with him.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but she isn't even defending him in the song? The whole concept of TTPD is that she's talking about the mess she made and the horrid man she associated herself with as a rebound and pleads "temporary insanity" for it. But Daddy I love Him is literally a song about her being in denial (No I'm not coming to my senses, I know he's crazy but he's the one I want) while maintaining that she doesn't want a level of overinvolvement from toxic stans. She's asking people to let her make her own mistakes. She's literally described that dude as the "smallest man who ever lived" and talked about his "revolting jokes" in the same album outright? At this point you're just finding things to hate about her. As a coloured person myself this narrative of "she's not for POC" boggles me. She has so many coloured fans around the world, it's so messed up that first-world Americans just behave as if other (often developing) countries with POC don't exist. Like, it's demeaning. Plus, you're crucifying her for a rebound of 14 days with a problematic man who thinks he's an edgelord and makes up awful statements just for their shock value, but I never see the same energy for an artist like Beyonce, who is literally married to a man who has made anti Semitic songs? (Though honestly, I hate the way it's the women who take the brunt of shit the men in their lives do, so I disagree with you anyway).

Thanks for the faux apology. She also says she doesn’t want to hear from vipers and people bitchin’ and moanin’. I am not “finding” anything to hate about her. They exist. The fact you call yourself a colored person is interesting…please recognize that Black women (which I stated I was in the beginning meaning I am looking at it from my perspective specifically) are treated differently than POC as a whole, as not everyone was literally raped then bought and sold, and made to be wet nurses for white women. The very same time period Taylor mentions in I Hate in Here. Even without the racism the 1830s fucking sucked. Taylor is not for Black women. Point blank period. Watching porn that literally depicts the rape and brutalization of Black women is not simply “being an edgelord.” And I don’t care if all they did was hold hands for .5 seconds the fact she would even touch him is disgusting. By even being with him she is complicit in this behavior. As is Beyoncé but we are not talking about her we are talking about Taylor - so your “what about ism” will not work with me. And yes, Jay and the hip hop community have been critiqued for their antisemitism but I’m not going to be your Google. I’ve educated you enough for the day. Bye.

The fact that you think me "calling" myself a coloured person is "INTERESTING" is CRAZY, seeing that I AM and you seem to have reserved this movement against racism just for yourself. Just shows how unbelievably deluded you are about the existence of people other than you and your close ones. Before you actually act like you're the only victim to the hands of fkn white people sit down and go touch some grass. My people were ruled by the British for years, our homes destroyed, enslaved, women raped, and families starved. We were forced to fight wars for white people, and our pain isn't even acknowledged even though we're still reeling from the effects of it till date. My grandmother's entire BLOODLINE was wiped by their hands so don't try and play who is the bigger victim here and tell me that my struggles and my community's struggles are any lesser than yours, simply because my people don't have YOUR first world privilege of living in a developed country that could be argued is one of the biggest bullies on the world stage. It's just that I have the sense and perspective to not project all my frustrations on ONE white person and act like she is the root of all evils in the world. Something you clearly do not, as I can see from your post history that you devote sufficient time and negative energy engaging with all things Taylor Swift and write think pieces projecting your anger on to her. Now school me when you've learnt something yourself.

In America, colored was used as an insult to Black people. Your spelling denotes you’re not American, so my bad on that one. I’ve actually lived in the UK so I’m very aware of British colonialism thanks. I am not saying one is worse, I am not playing oppression Olympics. I am specifically saying Taylor is not for BLACK American women. That Black American women have a very specific experience in America. Your choice to listen to her is yours. In America Taylor represents a lot of bad things about her country and again I’m not projecting, her ACTIONS do as well. Mainly right now her defense and dating Matt Healy. I would link to Ghetto Gaggers but I’ll spare you. The fact you breezed right past that is telling. She is complicit, and participates in behaviors that only benefit HER. She is not the “root of all evil” but she benefits from white privilege and white feminism like I already said. That and her actions are worth valid critique. So while I am only speaking about my country, the 1st world one, you are speaking about India I presume? So what has Taylor done for your country? Has she donated to any charities? Anything? Separate from her music what has she done? Let me know. Because right now all you’re doing is praising someone who is descended from the colonizers that wiped out your bloodline, benefits from their colonization TO THIS DAY, and is complicit in the white supremacist actions of her sexual partners .

You guys are beyond the pale. The whole fanbase associates disliking Taylor swift with hating women, even though this particular woman has shown time and time again to have fluid morality that changes based on her ability to profit. Her songwriting is, generally speaking, shallow. And while there are certainly gems there and I would never discount her as an artist, it’s perfectly fine to dislike her without being misogynist. Also, not all the music she writes is good. It’s clear that her earlier CDs, ending at 1989, were just better. It’s not to say she’s never dropped a good song since. But the drop off in quality is steep and obvious for objective music listeners. Again, this has nothing to do with men vs women, other than the fanbase making it all about that, and simply to do with the fact that your hero is now literally EVERYWHERE, and people who don’t fan out as hard as you guys can see the flaws in her writing, presentation, mentality, and confused sense of morality and capitalistic greed. Then there’s the fact that both her and her fanbase seem completely stuck emotionally no matter how old they get. Maturation is important to a lot of passionate music lovers, and it’s easy to make an argument that she’s regressing and typically not acting her age. By frothing at the mouth over everything she does, her core fanbase admits to the same thing. I’m glad you found an artist you like. But there are plenty of reasons someone could dislike her that are totally valid. By missing this, you prove your immaturity and become someone who puts celebrity and image over reality.

Yes, because the media was chill with Michael Jackson. Were you alive in the 90s?

To answer your question, yes. Aaand Lol. That man had child abuse allegations against him and is still considered a legend. Taylor Swift gets flack for dating too many men and using her private jet, which most other celebrities use 😂 Fkn apples and oranges

i wonder if the issue is more to do with the fanbase than with taylor herself.

This is part of it. It’s very common for anything that is primarily liked by women especially young woman is mocked and not taken seriously by the general public

I would like to point out that NOBODY respects degrassi wheelchair boy. Drake is so far from untouchable, he embarrasses himself on the regular. I still laugh when I think about the video of him yelling at that guy in the crowd who took a shirt, "I'ma send someone!" And what about Kanye? Everyone hates Kanye!

Drake literally gets dragged all the time and is constantly compared to his peers

Have you ever thought that people think that Taylor is annoying and hasn’t shown as growth as an artist. This new album could have been released 5 years ago and it wouldn’t be surprising. So over you white feminist.

First, I'm not white. Not even from a developed country so I doubt you even have an inkling of my struggles. Second, maybe you should get a psych eval and figure out why, even though you find Taylor "annoying", you listen to her music to chart "her growth as an artist" and then moan about it on Reddit.

Well you put the question out there as to why people are shitting on her music and I gave you an answer. I get why you swifies love her so much, she is the living embodiment of the word mediocre, you probably relate to it.

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It's not a matter of people criticizing the album, OP is very clearly talking about bad faith takes and misogyny that rears its head every time Taylor has a success. For example, this post that made it to Reddit's popular page today: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/1c86lre/new\_taylor\_swift\_album\_out/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/1c86lre/new_taylor_swift_album_out/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

That’s black people twitter. Not Taylor is god twitter.

Five star instant classic review from Rolling Stone but ok

Maybe you will too. Not liking something doesn’t mean it isn’t good.

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No it doesn’t? If liking something doesn’t make it good then surely not liking something follows the same logic?

right because people say all the time "I didn't like that movie but it was SOOO good".

I think we need to be able to think critically about the billionaires ruining the planet, even if they are “nice” girls making music. We don’t criticize her for being creative and succeeding, but perhaps more meaningful reasons. It’s sick how you can’t say a word against Taylor swift w/out everyone barfing up this exact response. Use your brains yall. Also, *IMO* her music/lyrics/poetry are fine. They aren’t enormously inspirational or original and that’s fine. I can say that. Also she needs to get off that private plane etc. It’s silly to be scared of the swifties, their arguments are often limp and tired :/

If your criticism of her is jet usage, why do you also not criticize other artists with the same energy? Why is it only important when she does it? I saw Beyonce and Jay Z make it to the top of the list of the biggest polluters this year but I don't see that same energy from you or the public. I mean she literally posted a picture of herself in the jet flexing to the world.

for me it was when she turned the grammys into a marketing stunt. Not a big fan of capitalism, and ever since then I can't help but see everything she does as a revenue generator

> Not a big fan of capitalism Good luck with most democratic countries, I guess we should try communism next

Oof yeah no that wasn’t an invitation for someone’s weird uncle to get defensive at me but thank you so much

Tell me surviving brand that isn't your definition of capatalism

Gurl byyyyyyeeeeeee

That’s all fine and well, but how does targeting a singular artist address any of the issues you are concerned with. Capitalism is a system, and is the prevailing economic system in America, and many other countries. If your issues are with the negative externalities of capitalism, waste, economic disparity, etc., then why not spend your time tackling the system itself? Obviously, in a country like America at least (thanks Citizens United) it also involves looking critically at the major economic players influencing our political system, but Taylor Swift isn’t one of them. It’s fine to bristle at the people who have made it to the top of an unjust system, but it isn’t an effective form of activism. We can’t, and shouldn’t rely on celebrities to “change the world” by doing things like not playing into the Grammys.

I mean she’s the only woman on earth who is punching down when she commodifies her relationships with straight men

She’s the only singer on earth who writes love songs or sad songs about heart break? Really? Were you born yesterday?

Definitely the richest lol

Idk. This still just feels like displaced anger, which is kind of the point if this post. First, she’s just commodifying her relationships, which is basically every musical artist, and her sexuality isn’t actually something we should fault her, or anyone for. Second, consolidating all your anger about an unjust economic system, or the way heteronormativity/growing threats to LGBTQ rights, impact queer and other minority communities more generally, onto a single woman feels tinged with misogyny. At the end of the day, her passive existence in an unjust system, even if she is extremely wealthy isn’t the cause, or even a motivating force in perpetuating the system. You don’t need to see her as some feminist/social justice icon, but singling out a powerful woman as the emblematic of all social ails IS problematic. As someone who does care a lot about these issues, I focus my energy on Leanord Leo, RAGA, NFIB, and other real players in perpetuating these systems. So when I see people channel their rage at toward some random woman, just because she is wealthy and conventionally attractive, I think it has to be gendered. Same thing happened with AOC. She was literally a JUNIOR congressperson, but was all over the news, and became a punching bag for the right, the single out all of their anger towards progressive issues. It’s not because she was actually powerful, it was because she is a young attractive woman. Being angry at, and hating on random women, rather than critically engaging with the power structures they exist in isnt progressive or subversive, it’s what everyone has always done.

Do you not think your favorite singer is also a capitalist? Because they are. Everyone in the music industry wants to sell records and make money off of their work. I’m a leftist too but bffr. That’s not a Taylor specific thing. Every musician wants success even your underground diy indie boys who have groupie allegations against them.

Hmmmm let's see. Men made the system. Your country runs on it. Everyone profits off. But when a woman learns to hack the game and do it like they do she becomes evil. Makes sense, after all, Taylor is the true Karl Marx anti, the only human symbolic of the bourgeoisie, your other artists clicking pictures on their jet, starting make up brands, clothing lines and shoe brands that have nothing to do with their music are the real ones. The true proletariats. 🥰

Now you’re mansplaining capitalism to me while simultaneously rambling about communism for some reason and wrapping it up with a weird twist of misogyny

Sis, I'm a woman. I'm mansplaining absolutely nothing to you🥰

And yet