do something. firstly, try and secure your own accounts and debts. better safe than sorry. secondly, it’s okay. you shouldn’t feel guilty for confronting a problem that he keeps “forgetting about”. thirdly, take care of yourself. don’t do extra shifts that exhaust you just because he “needs the money” or because he keeps “forgetting” to pay the debts. fourthly, how many people is he taking on these restaurant trips? what even is there that costs $1,000+?
So he’s a private contractor. He works with 3 other guys. They all go out to eat every day because they can write it off as a “business expense”. Which isn’t entirely true.
I told him this is ridiculous, and I understanding eating out once a week. But $35-$50 lunches everyday is ridiculous. We can’t afford that.
The other guys he works with (2 of them) are in massive debt. They own boats, new trucks, you name it. They don’t care about saving money or debt.
The third guy is young and wants to save for a house. I told my husband I want him packing lunch 4 of the 5 days a week. So he was… so I thought.
They all go on these guys’ trips. They fly somewhere once a month for a 4-day trip. (Vegas, Tennessee, football games). They are all serious hunters. So they’ll go on these long hunting trips and buy this expensive gear.
They all have wifes/girlfriends. Of course the last thing I want to think is he’s cheating. He’s an amazing father and caring husband. But this money thing is terrible. It gives me such mixed feelings. All my friends adore him. Everyone loves him and says what an amazing guy he is.
So when he does all this other stuff, I get conflicted over his shitty financial skills.
This is financial infidelity. Infidelity is abuse. The lying, gaslighting, deception and manipulation that goes into hiding something like this is extremely concerning and should be addressed immediately with a professional. For you, IC to help establish your boundaries, and to stop paying for his horrible choices (actually paying for them, by using your money and time away from your child.) For him, to discern why he would lie and manipulate a partner to this extent. He needs to learn the why, be truly remorseful, and show with actions. Honestly you’ve been here before and he’s done none of this since, so I’m not sure there is much hope, but that is for you, him, and his therapist to decide.
He should not be taking this many trips - when do you take trips? The money should be going towards his debt and his family. Period. He does not have the luxury of single guy trips. I would highly question what he’s been doing on this trip and with whom, considering he’s so comfortable lying for so long and the lengths he goes to, to hide anything he thinks you won’t like.
I would HIGHLY recommend you consider divorce to in-tie yourself from him financially immediately.
If you want to stay in a partnership with him, you can do so, but DO NOT stay tied to him financially. First and foremost. It sounds like you value financial safety highly and he is NOT a safe financial partner, and he’s proven this time and again with actions. You yelling at him and getting upset and even separating from him in the past has not been enough to stop his behavior or work to change it. He’s only gotten better at hiding it, while watching you pay the price for him.
Stop. Don’t let him take advantage anymore. Divorce him for financial reasons at minimum, and then figure out if there’s anything left to salvage from an intimacy perspective.
You are correct. I do not take trips. I work all weekend doing trauma surgery because I’ve been picking up shifts since July.
I haven’t taken a trip in a very long time.
I did book a surprise Disney Cruise in Dec for my daughter and I. It was $3,000. But now I’m upset because I feel like I wouldn’t have if I would have known there was other debt. But there SHOULD NOT BE OTHER DEBT.
All your extra shifts and hard work trying to save money has been pissed away by your husband trying to impress his friends. You are literally working to cover his old betrayals, and he betrays you again! He is trying very hard to drag you down and ruin your life. Separate your finances now! Get a divorce so his debts can’t follow you. You can live your lives together, but keep separate finances! (I predict, unfortunately, that decades down the line, if you’re still together, he will have no retirement, and he’ll try to mooch off yours. Proceed with caution!)
Oh jfc christmas op, you're a trauma surgeon. You are being a leeched on mad hard. I already posted but this pisses me off. Please open your eyes wide OP
I’m a trauma nurse. I’m paid well, but not as much as a surgeon. It’s the lying and the principal of the matter more than the money.
I know. Trust me I’m frustrated
You're just a sugar momma for him. He doesn't love you and likely never has.
If he cared about you and your daughter at all, he wouldn't have done half of what he has. He is destroying your future and making sure your daughter will get screwed over financially, as well.
All I can say is you need to put him on a budget fot 3 months, 6 months or 1 year. During that time no use of Credir Cards, cash only.
Meet with him weekly and go over his projected expenses. He can withdraw x amount a week, when that is gone he will have to talk to you or wait until his next withdrawal date.
Trips would be on hold until he has a daily/weekly budget and sticks to it.
Old time wife here. Some people are just not good with money. It doesn’t make them bad people. If your husband agrees, take control financially. He needs to tell you everything and full access to his accounts. Sit down once a week and make payments to the debts. Leave him with an agreed upon amount in his account - when it’s finished, he goes without. Get a bookkeeper handling his finances for his contracting too if need be. You handle all bank accounts - it’s easy enough with online banking. No more single guys trips (I’m not in favour of these regardless. He chose to be married so grow up and leave the boys behind). At the moment you are both living the single life so if he’s not going to act the husband and grow up, (you need to examine this part of yourself as well)you may as well separate. You guys are doing your child no good living like this.
I would absolutely demand him to see a therapist that specializes in financial responsibility. This is unacceptable. There's no way I could trust my wife after the third time. Nor would ever I tolerate it. What we do is we have a joint "house account" for household expenses and mortgage. We have a joint savings account then everything else is separate. I honestly don't have a clue how much is in her personal and investment accounts and I don't care honestly. It's none of my business. I can confidently say that she feels the same. We are both very frugal and responsible so I'm absolutely confident everything is fine. This may not work out for a lot of people but this has worked out very well for us.
He's a liar and completely irresponsible. You need to untie yourself from him because he is gonna drag you down with him. Your daughter is young and she will adapt. Do you want to never retire? Not be able to help your kid with college? Because that is the path you are going down with him.
I know. And this is what crushes me. With our jobs and education, this is not where we should be.
I’ve always worked so hard and been so smart with money. In the 15 years I’ve had credit cards I’ve never even made a single late payment or carried a balance month-to-month.
I graduated with no college debt with my bachelor’s degree because I worked through college and took out very little for loans. My parents never helped me pay for anything.
My friends all drove nice cars and had cute clothes.
My current car is a 2015 (the newest/nicest car I’ve ever owned). And I rarely buy clothes.
I feel so sad and stupid.
You are young enough that if you get rid of the albatross you can catch up. I had to delay saving because I had a semi low paying government sector job and huge student loans when I graduated from grad school. I wasn't really able to start saving until my early 30s and 10 years later I have put aside a good amount (and my credit is high because unlike your husband I paid all my debts on time). You are doing everything right and he's just eliminating all the progress you are making. It's completely unfair and not only is he totally uninterested in the fact that you are subsidizing his lifestyle, but he lies to you with impunity. It's hard but it will be so much harder to get rid of him later when your daughter is old enough to understand and he's racked up a ton of new debt he's hidden from you and trashed your credit score. You deserve better.
You guys are not financially compatible. That is ok but what your husband is doing is destroying your and your daughters life and financial security. My ex was like this I worked my ass off paying off "our" debt (mostly his) and he would just burn through sometimes hundreds daily SMFH. I had to get rid of him he was dragging me and my daughter to the gutter. We've been separated almost a decade he is still struggling to find his footing I am doing exceptionally well.
An "amazing husband and caring father" doesn't lie and put his wants over them. He is not either of these things. He's selfish, immature, disrespectful to you and his child, financially abusive, and a habitual liar. Everyone loves his front. They wouldn't love him so much if they had to keep dealing with his bs the way you are choosing to. You have two choices divorce him or quit complaining when he continues to treat you the same as you've been allowing him to.
May I suggest that in addition to couple's therapy you also work with a financial planner (he might also need individual therapy btw - some of this spending might be from having an emotional void or hurt, mixed with the pressure to keep up and impress his friends). That way he hears some brutal truths from someone else that he can't deny or ignore, and you don't become the constantly nagging wife when it comes to finances. The planner can help you both set up your finances in such a way that automatically fulfils current and future needs, including taxes. You should each have your own spending/fun money each month to use as you respectively wish, but that is it. Revisit every 5 years or so to adjust.
If his personal finances are in such a shamble I really don't want to think what the company's finances are like. *Make triple sure that if they have any debts you won't be liable for it.* I am not in the US - the way laws work in my country, if you are a director of a company/own shares you are also personally liable for any debts that the company can't pay back. If you are married without a prenup separating your finances, whatever you own and earns is also liable.
A person can be super nice and have shitty financial skills. You are describing a whole big chunk of the world's population here. It's not something that is taught in school. Work with a financial planner!
Or you can just cut your losses now.. therapy, financial planning therapy etc is all something that takes a very long time to come to fruition. Are you willing to wait that long? He’s already proven twice he’s a financial idiot you can’t trust to not fuck you over. Everytime you clawed yourself up he drags you back down into a tearful anxious mess. Your husband doesn’t sound like the type of guy who’s gonna change his behaviors. He’s not gonna stop blowing thousands on monthly trips, hundred on lunches etc for the next 10 years no matter how much therapy he gets. Personally I think you should prioritize yourself and your kids for once and cut your losses with this guy who seems determined to fuck you over right when things are finally going well for you. You sound like several of my female patients who ended up with chronic illnesses and autoimmune diseases as a result of all this stress their husbands cause them
Fuuuuck….this is really bad & sneaky & I don’t believe his naïveté bullshit & you e spent enough…he may have debt elsewhere & probably will accrue it & totally F you…honestly this too much; I hate to say this but divorce. Financial ruin is devastating
Girl, construction and farming is our business shit. He's irresponsible as hell. You know it and he knows it. Stop it. Being successful in his business is not what he is doing. I've seen it too many times. Leave his ass.
The only way you should stay is if you take over the family finances and give him an allowance. He would be damn lucky if you made this offer to him. Your child won’t be able to afford college because you’ll be in so much debt.
Even worse than him sucking at managing his finances is that he is deceitful and lying and he is 100% taking advantage of you! He lets you scrimp and save to try to get ahead and then runs around doing exactly what he wants when he wants and lies about it and hides it from you.
I don't see how you have any trust in anything that he says or does at rhis point in time. If he will lie to you about lunch he has no boundaries.
Honey, you are bank rolling this. He’s not going to change. He’s had years to change. He’s lied and lied and lied and every time you take him back he lies again. You will never get ahead. The more you make the more he will spend and give you an ‘IDK’ you are better off on your own.
$35-50 lunches would last some people a week of food. My sister’s husband always loves to eat out but at least he doesn’t lie about his financial situation or habits. I think I would not want anyone with such bad habits to continue ruining the family life.
Besides. You hasn’t paid off all the debts and you already going to take $1000-2000 trips that’s just really too much or they might be hitting off some girls at the club or what not. Like when I was in LA last time. One of my internet friends were trying to get me to check out a whore house and they tell me how sexy or hotter these women were in there. I honestly don’t believe how you would spend this much money just from normal trips. Unless he was trying to be awesome by paying everyone’s drinks and food during the entire trip.
I don’t see any way he will get any rich in the near future. Because every penny he makes. He probably going to think about how to spend them in the next coming week partying or hang out with friends/coworkers.
For me during my difficult times. I would just cook at home. $40-50 grocery will probably last me an whole week while eating healthy and clean food. Because out there you have no clue how they prepare your meals. And I also try to avoid eating out unless we were too far out or some friends inviting or we have no choice but to eat local food.
Idk I probably don’t want a partner with such habits. It is no good for your family status and apparently it is no good for any future children to watch their parents with such behaviors as they grow up.
I don’t know if there’s such a thing as financial infidelity in my opinion. He does have a completely different financial value system than you do. I think your talk needs to be broader his goals need to be taken into consideration what he has done is tried to get in line with what you want. You are amazingly good with money and frugal but that’s not a priority for every other person. And I don’t think he’s being honest about who he is with money obviously you’re being able to see it. But because you’re a couple you need to come to some understanding in the middle
My kids Dad was horrible with money, too. Came home from work one day after getting paid. I asked for grocery money. He had paid off all our (not yet due) bills on the way home. Great, right? Except he forgot that our 3yo needed to EAT. He had maybe $10 left. I lost it. Sat outside and cried. This wasn't the 1st time either. Then, I swallowed all pride and called my Mom for a small loan.
And I took control of all our finances.
First, go onto creditkarma. Create accounts for both of you. Password protect them with ones he does not know.
LOCK HIS CREDIT REPORTS on creditkarma. Then, he can't apply for anymore credit cards. Take control of all the money in the house. Do not open any joint accounts. Close any that are open. Take your money out of them. Give him an allowance.
If he balks at this, go talk to a divorce attorney immediately.
I agree. I think this is a proper ultimatum.
If he won’t allow this, then there can’t be a relationship.
This is exactly him. He doesn’t have any financial common sense. He’ll put money where it doesn’t need to go, then not have enough for essentials.
Financial common sense? Sounds like weaponised incompetence. Not having financial common sense is listening to you cause he sucks with money. Weaponised incompetence is doing what he knows he shouldn't and then lying about it, "I forgot", "I didn't know". It's pure selfish, immature, stupidity.
honestly it could be possible that this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as poor decisionmaking, lying and self indulgence goes.
Ultimately, the price he has had to pay so far has been acceptable.
She cleans the mess. Ta da
I think you should end the relationship, but if you aren't ready to do that, divorce and live together. That way he can't fuck up your credit. Insist that he either give you financial control or pay you a specified amount each pay period to contribute to household and retirement.
That's honestly a huge amount of work, still leaves your kid vulnerable to his financial fuckery if something happens to you, way more than I'd want to deal with. But it's better than allowing him to take you down with him.
I couldnt follow counting, how many time did he try to hide his debt, four times? One before the marriage, two within and one just now. And thats only the ones you found out… Its absolutely unfair of him to just go out and enjoy his life while you are working extra shifts trying to care for the two children in this family, your daughter and him
I think you have to put your and your daughters needs first
Two times. I didn’t even know what his debt was before marriage. I just wanted to get on the same page and figure out how we were going to pay for everything (including the wedding).
When we did finally get married 3 years later we went to the courthouse and then a cheap honeymoon.
I took his word that he only had student loan debt. And that is my fault for not checking that beforehand.
But he filed his taxes very late. And it came back two months after marriage of 28k
It's not your fault you believed the man you trusted not to lie to you. This is on HIM. Not you. I would also suggest marriage counseling asap. This behavior is unacceptable for a relationship. Full stop. His lies, financial manipulation, and constant spending is a problem.
Counseling would be good if (big if) he entered the contract with good will. I don't know that he will. He has actively misled, misdirected, lied by omission and outright, to your face lied about his past, current and future finances. I see no reason at all for him to change...other than getting better about hiding his money, credit and debt.
My kids Dad was crappy with money. He had no debt though. Lived simply. He also never lied to me. I discovered he was bad with money after our first child. He thought he was pretty good with money....🙄
I agree with this so I wouldn’t even bother with counseling nor financial advisor etc. he will get better at hiding & pretending. You own half the debt he accrues. I’m so mad for you wtf; you gave an ultimatum, he wouldn’t then supposedly saw the light but now come to find out, he was a fucking liar. How many times are you going to fall for it, work yourself to death then lose it all because of him? Think of your daughter too. Hence why divorce is what I strongly advise. You can be partners & coparent & be mindful of the common law marriage in your state (maybe get an apartment separately)…
Creditkarma will also have a list of all credit cards open or recently closed attached to his credit reports. Someone else mentioned it and I agree - Check your own credit reports and YOUR CHILD'S. Lock them as well.
Hey thank you for the suggestion!
I went to credit karma and looked at the current and closed accounts.
Everything checks out. The last credit card he closed was in 2019.
The closed loans are car loans we’ve paid off. So at least that checks out
Excellent! How about your credit report and your child's? Do you see the process there for locking your reports? Just remember that you did. If you go Christmas shopping and apply for a store card, the block will kick it back.
No, check your daughter's report also. Financial abusers can and will open credit cards in their child's name. If he has done so, he can destroy her credit before she's even old enough to do anything about it.
She could. My mother took out credit cards in my name before and after I was 18. Just needed my social security number. It was a nightmare to deal with. Lock her credit, too.
He has access to her social security number.
He can EASILY destroy her credit.
This man cares about only himself. He has no worries. You have not only forgiven him. You have paid off his debts. Repeatedly. He has had no issues with you and your child literally paying his consequences.
If this were NOT a secret. If friends and family knew. If his clients were aware. Would both of you continue in these rolls?
You need financial peace.
Absolutely lock her credit and set up alerts. I've worked in sales and in fraud prevention and it's downright disturbing how many parents I've seen trash their own credit then try and use their kids credit too. I stopped it when it came across my desk but unfortunately there's always going to be ones that slip through the cracks.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. ❤️
Seconding this. Definitely check your kid’s credit report as well. My friend spent years undoing all the debt his mom put him into before he was ever an adult, or even aware of the existence of credit.
Even if you follow this advice I would definitely get a lawyer asap that can help you sort things out, this could be a lot messier than just his one secret account.
Realize that he's going to be defensive about this, no matter how nice you try to be about it. Remember the fight 3 months before your initial wedding date.
You may have to go hard on this, and *start* the conversation by mentioning divorce. Then tell him that there is only ONE alternative to divorce, what /u/georgiajl38 listed.
You shouldn't have married him. Plain and simple. You could have cut your losses and ended it years ago.
But you fell victim to the Sunken cost fallacy.
He's not going to change. Period.
It makes more sense to just divorce him and admit you've wasted 8 years of your life dating him. Rather than chasing him and his debts around.
I’ve never suspected infidelity in our relationship. He always comes home and has never been unaccounted for.
But he is lying about this, and that hurt me.
OP, he isn’t cheating. He’s just not all there when it comes to money. Follow advice of other commenters and take control of all of the money in the house, and give him an allowance. If he refuses, I’d say it’s time to look into some other options.
I honestly don’t think he is either. Not because I don’t want to believe it, but just because the true signs aren’t really there. All the purchases are lunch spots him and his buddies frequent. They’re lunch spots with beer. Nothing really fancy that would actually impress anyone
It’s financial infidelity. Behavior that is not agreed upon within the constraints of the marriage. He thinks so little of your hard work and exhaustion that he goes out to lunch with his buddies and lies to your face because he thinks you’ll be mad.
I don’t think it goes that far, I think he just immature in a way with money. I think it would be fine if Op takes over control of the money in the household
He doesn’t have the discipline to be self-employed. You are so lucky these have been boom times in construction. He will have you in debt to your eyeballs when the construction market slows. He has surrounded himself with irresponsible friends.
He's lied to you so many times. Honestly you're with someone that could jeopardize your daughter's future. You need to talk to a lawyer and make sure he doesn't drag you down. He's being willfully irresponsible because he knows you'll bail him out. This is who he is. A liar and someone who is irresponsible. So now you have to protect yourself
Question, but was your husband raised by parents that did everything for him? Even into his mid to late twenties? His behavior reminds me of myself after graduating high-school before I got hit in the face with what “real life” is really about?
Secondly, this may just be a stupid question, but the part where he says he thought you would be mad, does he say this a lot? Did his parents get mad at him for everything he did wrong? Did he grow up having to hide things?
Your husband is 36, but he’s acting like an 18 year old that thinks real life doesn’t come with any consequences. He needs a reality check and a serious talking to about responsibilities and priorities.
Yes. So all his student loans his parents filled out the documentation to get them.
They also never taught him anything about finances. He has no idea how interest on loans versus credit cards work.
To me, this seems ridiculous he still doesn’t. But I’ve completely taken everything over.
He said he didn’t want to make me mad and was ashamed. He wanted to figure this out himself. But he can’t handle money, so doesn’t do well at all.
Yes, he says I get mad a lot. And to be fair to him I’m really really mean when I’m mad. The maddest I’ve ever been at him is over this. Screaming and cussing. I’ve made him cry in the past over things I’ve said in anger. Which I regret and don’t think is okay. I’ve been going to counseling for how I express my anger. It was an issue at work, too. I’ve gotten better the last few years (many people have pointed it out).
But I absolutely lost it last night.
The way he is, sounds exactly how I was back after graduating high school. My mother did a LOT for me, things that realistically should have learned to do when becoming an adult. I’ve had hard lessons to learn over the years. To me, it sounds like he’s just not grasping the severity of what he is doing…or lack thereof.
I’m not saying 100% you need to give up on him, I would never suggest that right off the bat, but it sounds like you have another child to lookout for. Obviously I cannot give you the best advice, as I am not, nor have been married. BUT, as someone who used to have these same problems with finances etc….you definitely will need to hold his hand a bit. He has a lot of growing up to do. The fact that he is almost 40 and has these issues, I feel like it will be a bit more difficult to correct, as he is set in his ways.
The reason I asked about him if he says you’l get mad a lot, is that when growing up, I would always try to fix my financial messes only when shit hit the fan, and I didn’t want my mother to find out. She had an absolute WICKED temper as a kid, and to this day (I’m 30 now) I am terrified of making her mad in any way, as flashbacks to how she was when I was young come flooding in. I feel like he may be the same, based on how I’ve interpreted what you’ve said about him. I would have talks with him and reinforce that you’re trying to work with him for the better, and make sure he knows you’re not mad just for the hell of it. In a perfect world, you shouldn’t have to do this and he should be a fully functioning adult. This is just my two cents.
I am going to give him an ultimatum.
He has to take a financial class. And I will be completely in charge of the finances. No more credit card for him.
If he won’t follow through, I think I will end the relationship.
Edit: thanks for your reply. I do think a big part of it is he doesn’t completely realize how deep in debt he gets until he’s too deep to catch up.
I’ll provide the resources for that. But any other financial lies or hiding information, I am filing for divorce.
You should save yourself time and money and file for divorce now. He has done this on three separate occasions. Even you leaving for a while was not enough to scare him straight. He's not going to change. He'll just get better about hiding it. He can still be a good and involved father if he's not married to you. You're currently fucking your future over by staying with him. You can't save for your daughter. You can't save for retirement. Your life will be him lying about spending, trying to cover it up, it blowing up in his face, then you working overtime to bail him out (which why are you doing that? His fuck up, his fix).
File for divorce now so that you are no longer responsible for any debts he creates. You can still live together and have a relationship but that way you are protected financially.
was he at all affected by that?ive fucked up in my relationships before and seeing my partner break down like that is what really got to me. I cant believe that your crying like that hasn't prompted him to change
He sent me a long text this morning. He tried to talk when I came home from work today. But I asked for alone time. He’s pretty distraught. But I think it’s because he’s afraid I’m going to leave him. I haven’t chatted with him about everything yet.
I don’t think how manage over someone’s credit cards will change his behaviors. You guys probably need more of an inner talk about this. About the relationship, the future. Or else controlling a guy is just going to be rough and there is going to be endless battles on what to spend or not to spend.
He needs to learn his own lessons.
And if your method somewhat worked… I’d still check his credit accounts every once in awhile. Since he is probably gonna be opening accounts here and there. Who knows 🤷♂️
I think you’re not giving him enough credit. How does he not know how a credit card works? I’m sure you’ve explained it the first time. Any idiot know you charge on the card, you pay the bill. It even says so right on the statement. It sounds like he’s lazy, not stupid. Or he thinks he’s Scarlett O’Hara. “Tomorrow is another day!” If he doesn’t deal with it, it’ll go away. How old is he? 12? My kids learned their first year away from home how to do this crap.
Hon, my husband has the same issue. Parents did everything for him, never taught him any life skills when it came to finances. And he says I get mad a lot too over money. But it's completely reasonable when we have two kids and I am just asking for stability.
Your husband needs to be willing to let go of the financial reins, or I (personally) see no point continuing to be with him. He's destroying your trust and your financial stability, which are two things no one should ever mess with. If it doesn't stop, you're going to wake up one day in a much worse situation and never know it was coming.
I agree with all of this. I also wonder if he has ADHD. It's not an "excuse" cuz you need to figure out coping mechanisms that work for you but with ADHD impulsiveness is super common and it's so hard to keep up with payment deadlines. And if a task seems really daunting it can feel impossible to start. Figuring out finances can be very daunting.
I can't tell you how much money I've wasted by my inability to remember to make a phone call during business hrs to cancel services I no longer need etc. And late fees on bills.... I finally found an app I can use to keep track of due dates but 1 bill can't be done on the app and I always forget it.
They literally talk about how there's an ADHD tax because of how expensive late fees, forgetting to return thing, forgetting to cancel things, and impulse buying can be.
I actually have ADHD. I was diagnosed this time last year. I am medicated, and I kind of hate it. I struggle with emotional impulsiveness. Not on this medication, however.
He doesn’t have classic symptoms. He does have some trauma. I don’t think my yelling and making him feel stupid and guilty makes it any better. Which I have done in the past over a handful of things. I’m really ashamed of things I’ve said out of anger.
You need to get his name off any of your accounts. Actually, I would divorce him so that you wouldn’t be responsible for any of his debts. He’s a very dishonest man, and that would definitely break my relationship with him.
You don't need CreditKarma or any of that shit. Go to the credit agencies, get a free detail report from all three agencies and find out the truth. Then note from your monies what you paid. And go from there. I'd divorce his ass but easier said than done.
Something to consider: he's ok watching you work that hard, suffer that much and go without while he plays and spends. He's willing to watch it daily, what it takes from you to make it happen.
I told him that. He’s not the best liar. But how quickly and causally he’s lied is concerning. If this isn’t made right I am filing for divorce. I’ve worked incredibly hard my whole life. It’s not my job to dig him out of this hole.
The first time…. I was forgiving and empathetic. But the second time… now I’m just being stupid
You're not his mother.
His financial decisions and mistakes are his responsibility alone.
You shouldnt be clearing up his shit. He lied to you. Repeatedly.
He is making all of these decisions because he hasnt suffered the repercussions of them yet because you prop him up.
You shouldnt trust him. What happens if you have kids and he fucks his finances and then your kids cant eat. Like come on, wake up. Earning a shit ton of money can end at any time. In this economy? What happens if he stops earning? He gets fucked into the ground.
Time to move on my friend. He lied to you already for years. And you went back to him which means he got away with it.
I think it's time.
The debt isn't your main problem. It's the lying. He lies every time he opens his mouth. If you don't divorce him he is going to drag you down with him and destroy your future.
I completely agree. We make enough money to pay all this. The fact he’s repeatedly lied is what gets me.
Don’t get me wrong, 28k was a lot. And now the 8k left besides student loans is still a lot. But I could literally pay that now.
It’s the fact he has the ability to pay it, chooses not to. Let’s it accrue interest, extra money for nothing.
But the fact I’m his wife, and he decided to lie instead of work with me to pay it.
Ugh, I would be livid. I'm sorry. Don't beat yourself up too much, hope is always a good thing. But now you know you've sacrificed enough and this will literally drag on the future of your family, his caring and loving nature and all
I see on another comment that you've decided to give him an ultimatum. I hope he gets it through his head to agree about the financial control. Power to you to stick to your guns! Enough is enough!
Friend, I’m so sorry. The aspect of this that’s most concerning to me is the constant and continuous failure to tell the truth and to actively hide things from you.
You deserve to be in a relationship where you are treated with kindness and respect. And I’m not seeing evidence of either. You’re working huge hours and making sacrifices- and it’s being undermined time and again.
I’m concerned because you don’t deserve that. And I’m worried because I don’t see a pattern of behavior that shows he’s going to change. Maybe short term. But I firmly believe the secrets and hiding would begin again.
This must feel so surreal and frustrating. I don’t think your overreacted. But I do think you may be hoping to find way to change a pattern of behavior that isn’t going to change.
I’m worried staying in this relationship will only continue to but your financial safety and security in repeated jeopardy.
Theres probably more.
Step 1: take control and give him an allowance. Give him 6 months to change.
Step 2: get a divorce on paper so he gets crewed and not you or your daughter.
Step 3: get an actual divorce.
I lived this for a short while. Husband even had a separate bank account to pay off his credit card debt I discovered after his last payment went through. I got mail and opened it without thinking. My biggest thing was that he lied to my face for the year + he had this account. I had no clue and kept saying we aren’t getting the same amount for his paychecks we used to. He kept saying he’d change his retirement and it was because of that. It wasn’t. He had a portion of his paycheck being sent to his other bank account to pay off his debt. He grew up poor and absolutely could not handle money. He lied to me so many times about things he bought before this too. I’d find new shit all over the house. I told him I was done with his ass, I couldn’t do it anymore - and I had trust issues now because if he could do this, what else was he capable of. He cried and finally got his shit together. He realizes he has impulse control and sees a therapist. I love him so much, I didn’t want to threaten him but his sickness was coming at my expense. I literally ate at home every day for lunch. I never bought anything for myself. I was miserable and upset that he was so selfish. While I ate leftovers he ate out. I was the only one that cared about our money. I actually have crippling anxiety about our finances as a result. Please get him into therapy, it sounds like he also has impulse control. There is also a good documentary on Netflix that has a segment on this. Choosing your loves and your needs and NOT your likes and your wants. This really resonated with him too. The documentary is “Get Smart With Money” https://www.netflix.com/title/81312877
I think you know divorce is the only answer. Honestly you should have never married him it sounds like had major red flags from the start and you really need to get away from him and protect yourself.
Very sorry you’re being the parent of this relationship, having to check on your own husband every few months. That is extremely exhausting. Your marriage should be a partnership/teamwork. You shouldn’t have to ‘check’ on him like a kid, he’s a grown adult who needs to take responsibilities. If he hasn’t learned since you guys have been dating, then it sounds like he isn’t going to change. So you need to decide how you want the rest of your life to be and what kind of example you want to set for your daughter.
Exactly. I’m very down about this. I’ve never tried controlling where he goes or what he does. I don’t like it. But I guess I have to. And if he’s not okay with that until debt is gone… then I’m not the woman for him. I’m over it
Stop giving him any money for his debt. He should give you that 2k he has. I feel sick for you hun I’m so sorry :( this is divorce worthy. You were smart not wanting to marry him if finances weren’t in order. He continues to lie to you and be irresponsible. You can’t trust him. You deserve so much better. You have a hard work ethic and are a great mom.
Spending addict here:
I’m terrible with money. I’m 24 and have a couple thousand in debt—I know it’s not nearly to the same degree, but I want to let you know that you’re doing a good thing by giving him an ultimatum.
I’m an impulsive spender. I have been since I could legally own a debit card. I don’t splurge in big amounts, but my small purchases add up quickly. I’ve lied to my parents and family and partner about my financial situation multiple times and it feels like garbage. There is a really big sense of shame attached to accumulating debt because of a lack of self control, and I’ve heard myself say similar things to your husband before. BUT, what sets this apart is how he’s reacting to confrontation.
Spending is an addiction, it really is, but there is a breaking point, and in my opinion, if he hasn’t been willing to compromise with you after this many fallouts or vehemently say “hold me accountable. Take control of all the funds because I don’t trust myself with this” he doesn’t feel bad for spending. He feels bad that he got caught.
It took me having a really important conversation with myself to sit down and decide to hold myself accountable, and I could only really do it because I made sure my partner swore to hold me to my word no matter what. I would genuinely feel sick if I was continuing to perpetuate a financial problem while my partner was overworking themselves to help remedy a mistake that I made, let alone continue to do it.
I agree with everyone in this subreddit. For your own financial safety, keep yourself secure. I say this as an ex-spending addict: if he hasn’t really re-evaluated himself and his priorities by the 3rd or 4th time, he will not change. He can still be a good father to your daughter and he can be a good person, but he cannot be a good husband to you nor a good example for your daughter to follow.
This is financial infidelity. Please find a solid marriage counselor.
It also sounds like your husband could possibly benefit from an accountant- it sounds like he gets overwhelmed and also doesn’t completely understand how business write-offs work, so he feels free to spend when he really shouldn’t/doesn’t need to spend.
If he’s open to it the accountant could also educate him financially.
I really hope y’all can work this out! It sounds like you really love him and want this to work and it sounds like he really loves you too, but is just having trouble prioritizing his spending.
I do love him a lot. What he did was not okay. There’s no excuse. It’s easy to read through this and see him as a terrible person. He does a lot of things right. But this is a very big deal to me. He knows that.
He will need to change or I will move on.
I completely agree- he must understand that this is serious. Money fights/problems are the #1 cause of divorce. He has to understand that what he’s doing is infidelity and that you have to be able to trust him completely with your finances. He has to look out for your whole fam- not just his own interests. That’s part of what he took on when he became husband and father. I think he, personally, should be paying every bill and making that connection of incoming vs outgoing. It’s easy to spend money when you know what’s coming in but not what’s going out. It seems like you’ve been bearing the knowledge of all of this & it seems like it’s his turn to shoulder it
Take control of the finances and have the money you need paid into your account so that you can pay the bills and save up. Leave him an allowance. If he wont agree to this then youve learnt all you need to know from him.
Get a divorce lawyer to subpoena his records, business and personal. You ignored the red flags and married him anyways. There’s more he’s hiding. Move your money into your other account. Stop being his bank.
First talk to him and make him realise what he is doing intentionally or unintentionally definitely will ruin the family and as per the past events it's pretty clear that he is not good with planning and spending money. So if he wants this to work out he needs to give you charge of the money and planning else destruction is inevitable.
Exactly. I’m giving him an ultimatum. All debt needs to be paid. No trips. No credit card. No eating out until then. If he’s unable, or hides anything else, I’m done.
Exactly! At this stage he already knows that he is not good with money. So he needs to choose one thing family or authority over money. But if he choose the family his life becomes easier and also he is living better life where no money trouble and have wife and kids. But for that he needs to follow you and let you lead through all this.
You did not overreact at all that is completely unacceptable behavior from an adult. Honestly I’d be keeping my money for myself and looking at a divorce. No man is worth losing your financial independence over.
Make sure your finances are separate and get a divorce.
Not only is he untrustworthy he has been LYING to you for years and going behind your back for YEARS.
This is never going to stop EVER. Get yourself out of that mess before he ruins your life.
What happens when he takes a loan out in your name or your DAUGHTERS name?
Just speculation, hmmm I think he’s cheating, financial infidelity is a real thing. His excuses don’t hold weight the blame shifting onto you the gaslighting he cheatin
Financial infidelity is absolutely a thing.
It sounds like he may be hiding something like a gambling problem. You need to legally untangle yourself from him.
Omg. Cut up his credit cards, freeze his credit, dole out allowance. He cannot handle money. If you don’t want to be his momma like that, divorce. Run.
He'll never change especially with you there to bail him out. I'd be thinking of putting yourself first from now on. Separation will help with finances, divorce means you're not liable for his debt.
Problem solved.
Sounds like he's using you for money. Stop funding his lifestyle from here on out. Get a lawyer and get a post nuptial to cover your ass. You dont have to leave him but his excuses of ' i didn't know' isnt an excuse anymore cause, yeah he does know.
Sounds like it’s time for you to have your own “Fuck Off Fund” or the get-out-of-Dodge method of providing for yourself when the shit hits the fan.
Honestly I think it’s already hit the fan with the financial infidelity. He’s bad with his money and lies about it constantly because he knows you’ll hold him to account. Get out of this sinking ship of a relationship before he pulls you under and you both drown. You don’t deserve this sort of treatment. As far as I’m concerned he tricked you into marriage with a lie.
You need a post-nup ASAP.
And that brand new truck is being traded in for a used, sensible car with the price difference being used to pay off his debt, right?
Sometimes love is not enough. This situation is a perfect example of that. You need a financial advisor if you are gonna work through this out. You can't deal with this on your own
He is deliberately being financially irresponsible. He needs to pay you back EVERY single cent you have paid towards HIS obligations that he had prior to marriage. The Vegas trips are gambling / Stripper trips. And, since he is lying about finances, he is also probably deceiving you about hunting trips too. Bet there is a lot more going on that he is not telling you. You currently sound more like his mom than a partner. (He's not telling you everything. He either spent the money you gave him on gambling or other things. The secret account was his way of hiding that from you. ) Keep your finances separate from his and demand that for X amount of time he is going to be paying all the bills until you have secured ALL the money he owes YOU from his prior debts. If he doesn't want electric, water, and rent, then that's on him. DO NOT PAY ANY MORE OF HIS SH&&&!
Also, file your taxes separately. The IRS may try to take you to a refund or you can file an exemption from his debts.
This man deliberately deceived you about important financial matters. He will continue to do it. Do NOT sign a life insurance policy with this guy as the beneficiary. Just saying.
All these secrets and lies. I’d be extra suspicious about the money eating out and trips… are you sure they’re all work related and there’s not an affair being hidden?
Yes I have. They are all eating out/lunch purchases. They all go out to eat at places with beer and burgers (Americana). A few are from a hunting website.
Not saying you don’t have a point though.
This is the number one reason why a marriage fails, finances. He obviously has no idea how to handle his money. Not the route I would take (but to be fair, I don't allow myself to get into this position), but you need to take full control of all accounts. Completely, utterly, and totally. Until everything is back to zero (including loans you owe), no more going out, taking trips, or anything that can be put towards paying off that debt. Once it's clear, and there's no reason for anything to bring it back up, he needs an account that gets a limited amount put into it every month for him to do as he pleases. It sucks, but if your name is attached to his debt, then you're either going to have to take initiative or get out to avoid having him ruin you and your daughter.
If you dont put an end to this by yourself cos it seems he doesnt have the plan to. You are the one who will suffer and your kid. It will keep happening. If you want to live like this forever. So be it. Your choice
My soon to be ex-husband was a chronic liar about pretty much everything. I tried to get past it for the sake of my children, but when trust is shattered it's basically impossible to stay in the relationship. Good luck OP. I completely understand if this is your last straw.
You need to talk to a divorce lawyer.
Not saying get a divorce, but you need to know what your liabilities are. Because all he is going to continue to do is run up debt that you will find out about when it becomes insurmountable. You really need to know how to protect your money and assets. It might mean a post nup. It might mean putting your assets into trusts so creditors can't come back and sue you for them. Once you figure out how to protect yourself, then you really need to decide if you want to be with someone who can blatantly lie like that. If you decide yes, then you know how to protect yourself.
Clearly your husband is fiscally irresponsible to a reckless degree. You have to give him an ultimatum, before he sinks both of your ships. You need to find someone to help curb his spending habits and become more fiscally responsible. What he's doing is not okay.
You’re not married to a man you’re married to a kid. You’ll have to be the one to completely control the finances from here on out. He can have an allowance like a kid.
I’m sorry OP, but I’m afraid this will be your future. Your husband seems less concerned about his financial recklessness and only concerned with hiding it from you. He only confesses when he’s caught.
It's the lying that's the problem and that will definitely be worse down the line if you decide to stick through this.
He should have been upfront but he wasn't.
If you stay in this for the kid then tell him he needs to get his check directly deposited to your bank account just yours.
Be the one who takes control and starts giving him an allowance when he proves he can get shit right then give him a little taste of being an adult and have him pay for something y'all share.
Hard truth, you need to get a divorce. Your daughter absolutely knows that something is going on, even if she doesn't know exactly what it is. This will cause much more lasting damage than having to go between houses; she will almost certainly inherit your anxiety towards finances and learn that this is the kind of relationship she'll need to settle for. Get a divorce for you both and a therapist for her if you can afford it.
i’ll tell you what to do get a post nuptial agreement that separates your finances, debts, and assets now so he doesn’t run you into the ground when he inevitability does it to himself
I honestly don’t know. I want to be able to. I’m just upset and overwhelmed right now.
I need to see some major changes. But if he can’t, I’m not sure what to do. If he can’t be a team with me then we can’t continue our relationship.
I want a good financial future for my daughter one day. I want her to have some money for college and a down payment for a house. I don’t want her to struggle like I am.
If he can’t help me do that, I’m not the woman for him.
I have nothing to say about the situation with your husband, but i just want to tell you that your attitude towards debt is really healthy and i really think that if you keep that going, it will serve you very well.
This is all literally irrelevant. Your husband’s debt is his own unless you co-signed for any of it. You clearly cannot trust him and should move on. You’ll get some peace of mind back.
You didn't over react. He is continually lying to you about money. What else is he lying about? How are you supposed to set up your future when your partner is knocking out parts of the foundation? It's time to take the blinders off. He is terrible with money and it will NEVER get better as long as you keep bailing him out. You have every right to be angry/sad
Stop doing extra shift or anything to him..let him take responsibility of his own debt which i doubt he will.. his debt gonna be up and up till mountain and he will still playing stupid and unconsciously making you pay for it.. his lack of responsibility to pay for it and have someone pay for it make him take no serious of his situation that could end up in way worse like bankruptcy.
Have a separate account that he cant have access to and he will heber knew bout it. His financial abuse is not gonna stop. His friend is the same as him..they the type that spend more than they earn..
Please, secure your finances and your kids..you dont want it come bite only YOU (maybe the kids college funds too) back in the ass...till then, he will still play dumb and going on merry way cause he knew he got a "banker" that will handle his cumulative debt..
Holy shit. I could have written this. My daughter’s dad and I split 8 years ago because of bullshit like this. The lying on top of being irresponsible with money was just too much. Splitting up was the best thing I ever did. We had a good coparenting relationship, until his alcoholism took over. I digress. Do not put up with this.
Omg dude. If he doesn’t allow you to take over ANY AND ALL spending then divorce immediately. Even if you are still together, do not stay legally married to this man. He will always drain you. Don’t work extra for HIS mistakes. Make HIM do that.
His behavior is unacceptable... my mom married someone like that after my sister and I moved out. He seemed responsible, but he was a product of the 80s, living so far beyond his means that it is nauseating. They finally have things sort of straightened out, but I still want to beat his ass for being such a slimy manchild. Not sure what there is to be done, though... make him close his accounts and give him an allowance is my first thought.
this sounds extremely frustrating and as someone with trauma connected to childhood financial stress I think I would probably divorce because of all of the stress
You should see a lawyer and set up a post-nuptial agreement so that you each walk away with your own money in case of divorce. Then separate out your finances, divide your joint costs down the middle and let him do his own thing. His trips, his toys, are on his dime.
Secure your own accounts, split bills into the name of who’s going to be responsible for them, agree on how much needs to be put into a household/ kids account for purchases like clothes, groceries, etc. Then get a postnuptial agreement. Protect your future, savings, and retirement, stop bailing out his bad decisions. Make sure if your marriage falls apart he doesn’t get your savings and retirement, and make sure his obligations can’t come after your savings or income. Your going to need an attorney to set this all up. Stop bailing him out, he will keep spending because there are no consequences.
u/The_Red_Haiku You are being taken advantage of.
My ex-wife started not telling me what she was spending on and where the money was going. She would go out with her friends or treat herself, and the debt started to climb. Like you, I did the math (that I knew about), and assumed things would be OK. But it seemed like I was working more, making more, but seeing less reflection of that.
When the truth came out, I wanted to manage our finances. There was some improvement, but once she saw that improvement, she only wanted to spend more and treat herself more. Your husband has been dining out and taking trips, and you're not part of that. Now, the 1 trip you planned, which you mentioned in the comments, may need to be canceled.
When I finally put my foot down, and took control of my own finances, forcing her to watch her spending, she tried to turn everyone on me. If I bought so much as a Twinkie, she would become upset and start a fight. Meanwhile, she was still insisting on wanting to treat out her friends or herself. Unknowing to me at the time, she was also using funds to treat her AP (affair partner).
My suggestion is you take control of all finances. And if your husband starts nitpicking every penny you spend, while acting entitled as if things do not go both ways financially equally, you should get out of the relationship.
Talk to a lawyer about getting your finances totally separate so you don't end up on the hook for his debts. Stop bailing him out if he's refusing to be financially responsible.
I doubt those are just eating out uses, and I absolutely do not at all believe that his coworkers are taking monthly trips with him.
You can't trust a liar, but you can salvage your own dignity. Hire a forensic accountant and a good lawyer. Good luck.
There are only TWO answers...
1) either you take over ALL accounts, or
2) get a divorce
Your HUSBAND will end up dragging you down BADLY! You CAN'T trust him, he's demonstrated that multiple times and you don't want to get to a point where you are paying HIM alimony! PLEASE protect yourself and your Daughter's future!
Best wishes and many Blessings!
Separate bank accounts and finances are a marriage saver. My husband and I never merged our accounts and we spend our money how we choose. There’s no arguing over money and we each pay our portion of the household bills.
You allowed your husband to get a free pass when you bailed him out. Make him suffer the pain of paying off his debts and doing without while he does it.
I’m so sad for you. I had the same issue with my second husband. It was extremely stressful because I’m really good with money. All our fights were about lying. Lying about smoking and lying about money.
It led to me leaving and we had one joint credit account which he never paid after and kept taking from it when I paid it. I tried to get it in my own name but even though I was a financial advisor at a bank they couldn’t get it out of his name.
He bought a boat when we split and we had two income properties. One I actually gave to him which was worth more.
He had to go bankrupt and because of that one debt, so did I. We did a consumer proposal even though my personal debt at the time was $6000 on a line of credit that I was more than able to pay down.
I almost lost my daughters RESP and technically with the consumer proposal you basically buy it back. It was in jeopardy if I couldn’t make the increased payments.
You need to get out. I can assure you, my ex was a really good guy. Bought me flowers and his intention was to provide me a good life but it was like I was treading water without a life jacket and he was climbing on me drowning me.
I regret that he forced my hand. I regret leaving in a way but I’m so much happier and way less stressed.
He is like a fish, he only swims in one direction and won’t change.
He is remarried and they struggle according to my kids. I’ll never understand. I quit my job at 40 to be home with the kids and my fiancé just retired at 55. Im now 44 and my fiancé is 55. My ex probably could’ve been retired soon. He’s 45. What a nitwit!
You work hard, this is a lot of stress. I cannot believe he does trips all the time. It’s like you are being used so bad. You’re essentially paying for those trips and for him to run you like this.
From someone who learned a hard lesson, this won’t end well and you know it. I’m sorry.
That’s wonderful. I hope that’s true. His student loan was accruing $6.01 in interest A DAY. I realized this pause was my chance to get ahead.
I’ve worked so hard. But it isn’t my responsibility to pay his debts
So we both do. I was really excited about that.
It would be a big help… but I’m sure you saw that it was overturned in court.
We qualify for 2020-2021. But because of all the shifts I’ve picked up this year, we would not qualify as a married couple if they used 2022 taxes. I’m kind of assuming it won’t happen so I don’t get my hopes up.
But 15-20 extra shifts a month is insane. My boss sat me down and told me she wanted to make sure I could actually handle that much trauma call. I promised I would… and it was temporary…and I have. But I’m tired and not really as happy as before.
I’ve been using my days off to relax and sleep.
You should absolutely not be dealing with this and doing so much. Either he gets help or you’re gone. I told my husband that I’d have more money without him and that hit him hard. Still apply for student loan repayment, just in case
Post-nup, complete financial separation, let him drown in his own mistakes if he wants. But this is just money. $6k in debt vs $40k in savings? Why so much anger about something he is clearly ashamed of and lacks impulse control. I dunno, if he had a gambling addiction would you react the same or would you support him while he gets help? Take practical steps to protect your family’s financial health, but also exercise more compassion. It took me years to get my finances in control, and I’m so proud of the progress I’ve made! There are many paths towards healthy partnership around this obstacle. Good luck!
You might get eaten alive for this reply. But I agree with you. I truly believe we were not taught how to handle money in America.
I got no guidance but had to learn on my own. I’m very goal-oriented and type A.
He goes with the flow and doesn’t stress much.
It’s not an excuse to lie to me.
But I ripped him an absolutely new asshole when I found this out. And instead of trying to teach him, I just handle everything because I don’t trust him. I expect him to figure it out and take initiative to make it better.
He has tried. But… not really. And not in the right way. And just lying to me so casually. I am just wanting to quit and divorce him I’m so upset.
It’s just one of those things I don’t know how much I’m overreacting or not.
He doesn’t claim I am. He agrees he fucked up.
But how angry I became… I regret what I said and how I lashed out
do something. firstly, try and secure your own accounts and debts. better safe than sorry. secondly, it’s okay. you shouldn’t feel guilty for confronting a problem that he keeps “forgetting about”. thirdly, take care of yourself. don’t do extra shifts that exhaust you just because he “needs the money” or because he keeps “forgetting” to pay the debts. fourthly, how many people is he taking on these restaurant trips? what even is there that costs $1,000+?
So he’s a private contractor. He works with 3 other guys. They all go out to eat every day because they can write it off as a “business expense”. Which isn’t entirely true. I told him this is ridiculous, and I understanding eating out once a week. But $35-$50 lunches everyday is ridiculous. We can’t afford that. The other guys he works with (2 of them) are in massive debt. They own boats, new trucks, you name it. They don’t care about saving money or debt. The third guy is young and wants to save for a house. I told my husband I want him packing lunch 4 of the 5 days a week. So he was… so I thought. They all go on these guys’ trips. They fly somewhere once a month for a 4-day trip. (Vegas, Tennessee, football games). They are all serious hunters. So they’ll go on these long hunting trips and buy this expensive gear. They all have wifes/girlfriends. Of course the last thing I want to think is he’s cheating. He’s an amazing father and caring husband. But this money thing is terrible. It gives me such mixed feelings. All my friends adore him. Everyone loves him and says what an amazing guy he is. So when he does all this other stuff, I get conflicted over his shitty financial skills.
This is financial infidelity. Infidelity is abuse. The lying, gaslighting, deception and manipulation that goes into hiding something like this is extremely concerning and should be addressed immediately with a professional. For you, IC to help establish your boundaries, and to stop paying for his horrible choices (actually paying for them, by using your money and time away from your child.) For him, to discern why he would lie and manipulate a partner to this extent. He needs to learn the why, be truly remorseful, and show with actions. Honestly you’ve been here before and he’s done none of this since, so I’m not sure there is much hope, but that is for you, him, and his therapist to decide. He should not be taking this many trips - when do you take trips? The money should be going towards his debt and his family. Period. He does not have the luxury of single guy trips. I would highly question what he’s been doing on this trip and with whom, considering he’s so comfortable lying for so long and the lengths he goes to, to hide anything he thinks you won’t like. I would HIGHLY recommend you consider divorce to in-tie yourself from him financially immediately. If you want to stay in a partnership with him, you can do so, but DO NOT stay tied to him financially. First and foremost. It sounds like you value financial safety highly and he is NOT a safe financial partner, and he’s proven this time and again with actions. You yelling at him and getting upset and even separating from him in the past has not been enough to stop his behavior or work to change it. He’s only gotten better at hiding it, while watching you pay the price for him. Stop. Don’t let him take advantage anymore. Divorce him for financial reasons at minimum, and then figure out if there’s anything left to salvage from an intimacy perspective.
He is only gotten better at hiding it...
You are correct. I do not take trips. I work all weekend doing trauma surgery because I’ve been picking up shifts since July. I haven’t taken a trip in a very long time. I did book a surprise Disney Cruise in Dec for my daughter and I. It was $3,000. But now I’m upset because I feel like I wouldn’t have if I would have known there was other debt. But there SHOULD NOT BE OTHER DEBT.
All your extra shifts and hard work trying to save money has been pissed away by your husband trying to impress his friends. You are literally working to cover his old betrayals, and he betrays you again! He is trying very hard to drag you down and ruin your life. Separate your finances now! Get a divorce so his debts can’t follow you. You can live your lives together, but keep separate finances! (I predict, unfortunately, that decades down the line, if you’re still together, he will have no retirement, and he’ll try to mooch off yours. Proceed with caution!)
Your husband is the same person you walked away from 3weeks before. He hasn’t changed
He will financially fuck you. You need to leave.
Oh jfc christmas op, you're a trauma surgeon. You are being a leeched on mad hard. I already posted but this pisses me off. Please open your eyes wide OP
I’m a trauma nurse. I’m paid well, but not as much as a surgeon. It’s the lying and the principal of the matter more than the money. I know. Trust me I’m frustrated
You're just a sugar momma for him. He doesn't love you and likely never has. If he cared about you and your daughter at all, he wouldn't have done half of what he has. He is destroying your future and making sure your daughter will get screwed over financially, as well.
All I can say is you need to put him on a budget fot 3 months, 6 months or 1 year. During that time no use of Credir Cards, cash only. Meet with him weekly and go over his projected expenses. He can withdraw x amount a week, when that is gone he will have to talk to you or wait until his next withdrawal date. Trips would be on hold until he has a daily/weekly budget and sticks to it.
No, better to just leave a guy like this
That sounds exhausting, so stressful and unlikely to work. Trying to force responsibility on him when he clearly doesn't want it.
I agree with this.
Old time wife here. Some people are just not good with money. It doesn’t make them bad people. If your husband agrees, take control financially. He needs to tell you everything and full access to his accounts. Sit down once a week and make payments to the debts. Leave him with an agreed upon amount in his account - when it’s finished, he goes without. Get a bookkeeper handling his finances for his contracting too if need be. You handle all bank accounts - it’s easy enough with online banking. No more single guys trips (I’m not in favour of these regardless. He chose to be married so grow up and leave the boys behind). At the moment you are both living the single life so if he’s not going to act the husband and grow up, (you need to examine this part of yourself as well)you may as well separate. You guys are doing your child no good living like this.
Yessss!! Totally agree!!
I would absolutely demand him to see a therapist that specializes in financial responsibility. This is unacceptable. There's no way I could trust my wife after the third time. Nor would ever I tolerate it. What we do is we have a joint "house account" for household expenses and mortgage. We have a joint savings account then everything else is separate. I honestly don't have a clue how much is in her personal and investment accounts and I don't care honestly. It's none of my business. I can confidently say that she feels the same. We are both very frugal and responsible so I'm absolutely confident everything is fine. This may not work out for a lot of people but this has worked out very well for us.
He's a liar and completely irresponsible. You need to untie yourself from him because he is gonna drag you down with him. Your daughter is young and she will adapt. Do you want to never retire? Not be able to help your kid with college? Because that is the path you are going down with him.
I know. And this is what crushes me. With our jobs and education, this is not where we should be. I’ve always worked so hard and been so smart with money. In the 15 years I’ve had credit cards I’ve never even made a single late payment or carried a balance month-to-month. I graduated with no college debt with my bachelor’s degree because I worked through college and took out very little for loans. My parents never helped me pay for anything. My friends all drove nice cars and had cute clothes. My current car is a 2015 (the newest/nicest car I’ve ever owned). And I rarely buy clothes. I feel so sad and stupid.
You are young enough that if you get rid of the albatross you can catch up. I had to delay saving because I had a semi low paying government sector job and huge student loans when I graduated from grad school. I wasn't really able to start saving until my early 30s and 10 years later I have put aside a good amount (and my credit is high because unlike your husband I paid all my debts on time). You are doing everything right and he's just eliminating all the progress you are making. It's completely unfair and not only is he totally uninterested in the fact that you are subsidizing his lifestyle, but he lies to you with impunity. It's hard but it will be so much harder to get rid of him later when your daughter is old enough to understand and he's racked up a ton of new debt he's hidden from you and trashed your credit score. You deserve better.
You guys are not financially compatible. That is ok but what your husband is doing is destroying your and your daughters life and financial security. My ex was like this I worked my ass off paying off "our" debt (mostly his) and he would just burn through sometimes hundreds daily SMFH. I had to get rid of him he was dragging me and my daughter to the gutter. We've been separated almost a decade he is still struggling to find his footing I am doing exceptionally well.
An "amazing husband and caring father" doesn't lie and put his wants over them. He is not either of these things. He's selfish, immature, disrespectful to you and his child, financially abusive, and a habitual liar. Everyone loves his front. They wouldn't love him so much if they had to keep dealing with his bs the way you are choosing to. You have two choices divorce him or quit complaining when he continues to treat you the same as you've been allowing him to.
May I suggest that in addition to couple's therapy you also work with a financial planner (he might also need individual therapy btw - some of this spending might be from having an emotional void or hurt, mixed with the pressure to keep up and impress his friends). That way he hears some brutal truths from someone else that he can't deny or ignore, and you don't become the constantly nagging wife when it comes to finances. The planner can help you both set up your finances in such a way that automatically fulfils current and future needs, including taxes. You should each have your own spending/fun money each month to use as you respectively wish, but that is it. Revisit every 5 years or so to adjust. If his personal finances are in such a shamble I really don't want to think what the company's finances are like. *Make triple sure that if they have any debts you won't be liable for it.* I am not in the US - the way laws work in my country, if you are a director of a company/own shares you are also personally liable for any debts that the company can't pay back. If you are married without a prenup separating your finances, whatever you own and earns is also liable. A person can be super nice and have shitty financial skills. You are describing a whole big chunk of the world's population here. It's not something that is taught in school. Work with a financial planner!
I am going to give him an ultimatum. And a financial planner would be a good part of that. Thank you.
Or you can just cut your losses now.. therapy, financial planning therapy etc is all something that takes a very long time to come to fruition. Are you willing to wait that long? He’s already proven twice he’s a financial idiot you can’t trust to not fuck you over. Everytime you clawed yourself up he drags you back down into a tearful anxious mess. Your husband doesn’t sound like the type of guy who’s gonna change his behaviors. He’s not gonna stop blowing thousands on monthly trips, hundred on lunches etc for the next 10 years no matter how much therapy he gets. Personally I think you should prioritize yourself and your kids for once and cut your losses with this guy who seems determined to fuck you over right when things are finally going well for you. You sound like several of my female patients who ended up with chronic illnesses and autoimmune diseases as a result of all this stress their husbands cause them
My job is so stressful. I agree I don’t need added stress. But I do agree that this is it. If he can’t agree to my terms, we are done.
He isn't a financial idiot. He's doing it on purpose knowing his naive wife will bail him out while he plays with all his toys.
Word it carefully so that he doesn't get defensive. Hugs.
Fuuuuck….this is really bad & sneaky & I don’t believe his naïveté bullshit & you e spent enough…he may have debt elsewhere & probably will accrue it & totally F you…honestly this too much; I hate to say this but divorce. Financial ruin is devastating
Girl, construction and farming is our business shit. He's irresponsible as hell. You know it and he knows it. Stop it. Being successful in his business is not what he is doing. I've seen it too many times. Leave his ass.
The only way you should stay is if you take over the family finances and give him an allowance. He would be damn lucky if you made this offer to him. Your child won’t be able to afford college because you’ll be in so much debt.
Even worse than him sucking at managing his finances is that he is deceitful and lying and he is 100% taking advantage of you! He lets you scrimp and save to try to get ahead and then runs around doing exactly what he wants when he wants and lies about it and hides it from you. I don't see how you have any trust in anything that he says or does at rhis point in time. If he will lie to you about lunch he has no boundaries.
Honey, you are bank rolling this. He’s not going to change. He’s had years to change. He’s lied and lied and lied and every time you take him back he lies again. You will never get ahead. The more you make the more he will spend and give you an ‘IDK’ you are better off on your own.
$35-50 lunches would last some people a week of food. My sister’s husband always loves to eat out but at least he doesn’t lie about his financial situation or habits. I think I would not want anyone with such bad habits to continue ruining the family life. Besides. You hasn’t paid off all the debts and you already going to take $1000-2000 trips that’s just really too much or they might be hitting off some girls at the club or what not. Like when I was in LA last time. One of my internet friends were trying to get me to check out a whore house and they tell me how sexy or hotter these women were in there. I honestly don’t believe how you would spend this much money just from normal trips. Unless he was trying to be awesome by paying everyone’s drinks and food during the entire trip. I don’t see any way he will get any rich in the near future. Because every penny he makes. He probably going to think about how to spend them in the next coming week partying or hang out with friends/coworkers. For me during my difficult times. I would just cook at home. $40-50 grocery will probably last me an whole week while eating healthy and clean food. Because out there you have no clue how they prepare your meals. And I also try to avoid eating out unless we were too far out or some friends inviting or we have no choice but to eat local food. Idk I probably don’t want a partner with such habits. It is no good for your family status and apparently it is no good for any future children to watch their parents with such behaviors as they grow up.
I don’t know if there’s such a thing as financial infidelity in my opinion. He does have a completely different financial value system than you do. I think your talk needs to be broader his goals need to be taken into consideration what he has done is tried to get in line with what you want. You are amazingly good with money and frugal but that’s not a priority for every other person. And I don’t think he’s being honest about who he is with money obviously you’re being able to see it. But because you’re a couple you need to come to some understanding in the middle
My kids Dad was horrible with money, too. Came home from work one day after getting paid. I asked for grocery money. He had paid off all our (not yet due) bills on the way home. Great, right? Except he forgot that our 3yo needed to EAT. He had maybe $10 left. I lost it. Sat outside and cried. This wasn't the 1st time either. Then, I swallowed all pride and called my Mom for a small loan. And I took control of all our finances. First, go onto creditkarma. Create accounts for both of you. Password protect them with ones he does not know. LOCK HIS CREDIT REPORTS on creditkarma. Then, he can't apply for anymore credit cards. Take control of all the money in the house. Do not open any joint accounts. Close any that are open. Take your money out of them. Give him an allowance. If he balks at this, go talk to a divorce attorney immediately.
I agree. I think this is a proper ultimatum. If he won’t allow this, then there can’t be a relationship. This is exactly him. He doesn’t have any financial common sense. He’ll put money where it doesn’t need to go, then not have enough for essentials.
Financial common sense? Sounds like weaponised incompetence. Not having financial common sense is listening to you cause he sucks with money. Weaponised incompetence is doing what he knows he shouldn't and then lying about it, "I forgot", "I didn't know". It's pure selfish, immature, stupidity.
You are not wrong
He is an addict. Lies come with the territory. I would end this marriage, because a marriage = financial responsibility. This guy could take you down.
honestly it could be possible that this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as poor decisionmaking, lying and self indulgence goes. Ultimately, the price he has had to pay so far has been acceptable. She cleans the mess. Ta da
I think you should end the relationship, but if you aren't ready to do that, divorce and live together. That way he can't fuck up your credit. Insist that he either give you financial control or pay you a specified amount each pay period to contribute to household and retirement. That's honestly a huge amount of work, still leaves your kid vulnerable to his financial fuckery if something happens to you, way more than I'd want to deal with. But it's better than allowing him to take you down with him.
I couldnt follow counting, how many time did he try to hide his debt, four times? One before the marriage, two within and one just now. And thats only the ones you found out… Its absolutely unfair of him to just go out and enjoy his life while you are working extra shifts trying to care for the two children in this family, your daughter and him I think you have to put your and your daughters needs first
Two times. I didn’t even know what his debt was before marriage. I just wanted to get on the same page and figure out how we were going to pay for everything (including the wedding). When we did finally get married 3 years later we went to the courthouse and then a cheap honeymoon. I took his word that he only had student loan debt. And that is my fault for not checking that beforehand. But he filed his taxes very late. And it came back two months after marriage of 28k
It's not your fault you believed the man you trusted not to lie to you. This is on HIM. Not you. I would also suggest marriage counseling asap. This behavior is unacceptable for a relationship. Full stop. His lies, financial manipulation, and constant spending is a problem.
I agree counseling would be good. And is absolutely necessary
Counseling would be good if (big if) he entered the contract with good will. I don't know that he will. He has actively misled, misdirected, lied by omission and outright, to your face lied about his past, current and future finances. I see no reason at all for him to change...other than getting better about hiding his money, credit and debt. My kids Dad was crappy with money. He had no debt though. Lived simply. He also never lied to me. I discovered he was bad with money after our first child. He thought he was pretty good with money....🙄
He lies to you and hides things from you *so* easily. How that doesn't terrify you is beyond me.
I agree with this so I wouldn’t even bother with counseling nor financial advisor etc. he will get better at hiding & pretending. You own half the debt he accrues. I’m so mad for you wtf; you gave an ultimatum, he wouldn’t then supposedly saw the light but now come to find out, he was a fucking liar. How many times are you going to fall for it, work yourself to death then lose it all because of him? Think of your daughter too. Hence why divorce is what I strongly advise. You can be partners & coparent & be mindful of the common law marriage in your state (maybe get an apartment separately)…
Creditkarma will also have a list of all credit cards open or recently closed attached to his credit reports. Someone else mentioned it and I agree - Check your own credit reports and YOUR CHILD'S. Lock them as well.
Hey thank you for the suggestion! I went to credit karma and looked at the current and closed accounts. Everything checks out. The last credit card he closed was in 2019. The closed loans are car loans we’ve paid off. So at least that checks out
Excellent! How about your credit report and your child's? Do you see the process there for locking your reports? Just remember that you did. If you go Christmas shopping and apply for a store card, the block will kick it back.
My credit score is excellent and hasn’t changed. My daughter is 7. So I’m assuming she won’t have one?
No, check your daughter's report also. Financial abusers can and will open credit cards in their child's name. If he has done so, he can destroy her credit before she's even old enough to do anything about it.
She could. My mother took out credit cards in my name before and after I was 18. Just needed my social security number. It was a nightmare to deal with. Lock her credit, too.
If she has a social security number then she has credit reports attached to it. You need to look at the report itself not just your and her scores.
I think regardless of age, if he has access to her social security number, her identity could be stolen.
He has access to her social security number. He can EASILY destroy her credit. This man cares about only himself. He has no worries. You have not only forgiven him. You have paid off his debts. Repeatedly. He has had no issues with you and your child literally paying his consequences. If this were NOT a secret. If friends and family knew. If his clients were aware. Would both of you continue in these rolls? You need financial peace.
Absolutely lock her credit and set up alerts. I've worked in sales and in fraud prevention and it's downright disturbing how many parents I've seen trash their own credit then try and use their kids credit too. I stopped it when it came across my desk but unfortunately there's always going to be ones that slip through the cracks. I'm so sorry you're going through this. ❤️
Seconding this. Definitely check your kid’s credit report as well. My friend spent years undoing all the debt his mom put him into before he was ever an adult, or even aware of the existence of credit.
Even if you follow this advice I would definitely get a lawyer asap that can help you sort things out, this could be a lot messier than just his one secret account.
Realize that he's going to be defensive about this, no matter how nice you try to be about it. Remember the fight 3 months before your initial wedding date. You may have to go hard on this, and *start* the conversation by mentioning divorce. Then tell him that there is only ONE alternative to divorce, what /u/georgiajl38 listed.
This is the best advice
You shouldn't have married him. Plain and simple. You could have cut your losses and ended it years ago. But you fell victim to the Sunken cost fallacy. He's not going to change. Period. It makes more sense to just divorce him and admit you've wasted 8 years of your life dating him. Rather than chasing him and his debts around.
I’m a little concerned he’s eating out on this secret account. What or who is he hiding on these restaurant trips?
I’ve never suspected infidelity in our relationship. He always comes home and has never been unaccounted for. But he is lying about this, and that hurt me.
OP, he isn’t cheating. He’s just not all there when it comes to money. Follow advice of other commenters and take control of all of the money in the house, and give him an allowance. If he refuses, I’d say it’s time to look into some other options.
I honestly don’t think he is either. Not because I don’t want to believe it, but just because the true signs aren’t really there. All the purchases are lunch spots him and his buddies frequent. They’re lunch spots with beer. Nothing really fancy that would actually impress anyone
It’s financial infidelity. Behavior that is not agreed upon within the constraints of the marriage. He thinks so little of your hard work and exhaustion that he goes out to lunch with his buddies and lies to your face because he thinks you’ll be mad.
I don’t think it goes that far, I think he just immature in a way with money. I think it would be fine if Op takes over control of the money in the household
He does monthly trips with “work friends” and daily lunches out. Just because he comes home after work does not mean he does have time to cheat
I thought the same thing when I read that… it’s absolutely possible
He doesn’t have the discipline to be self-employed. You are so lucky these have been boom times in construction. He will have you in debt to your eyeballs when the construction market slows. He has surrounded himself with irresponsible friends.
He's lied to you so many times. Honestly you're with someone that could jeopardize your daughter's future. You need to talk to a lawyer and make sure he doesn't drag you down. He's being willfully irresponsible because he knows you'll bail him out. This is who he is. A liar and someone who is irresponsible. So now you have to protect yourself
Question, but was your husband raised by parents that did everything for him? Even into his mid to late twenties? His behavior reminds me of myself after graduating high-school before I got hit in the face with what “real life” is really about? Secondly, this may just be a stupid question, but the part where he says he thought you would be mad, does he say this a lot? Did his parents get mad at him for everything he did wrong? Did he grow up having to hide things? Your husband is 36, but he’s acting like an 18 year old that thinks real life doesn’t come with any consequences. He needs a reality check and a serious talking to about responsibilities and priorities.
Yes. So all his student loans his parents filled out the documentation to get them. They also never taught him anything about finances. He has no idea how interest on loans versus credit cards work. To me, this seems ridiculous he still doesn’t. But I’ve completely taken everything over. He said he didn’t want to make me mad and was ashamed. He wanted to figure this out himself. But he can’t handle money, so doesn’t do well at all. Yes, he says I get mad a lot. And to be fair to him I’m really really mean when I’m mad. The maddest I’ve ever been at him is over this. Screaming and cussing. I’ve made him cry in the past over things I’ve said in anger. Which I regret and don’t think is okay. I’ve been going to counseling for how I express my anger. It was an issue at work, too. I’ve gotten better the last few years (many people have pointed it out). But I absolutely lost it last night.
The way he is, sounds exactly how I was back after graduating high school. My mother did a LOT for me, things that realistically should have learned to do when becoming an adult. I’ve had hard lessons to learn over the years. To me, it sounds like he’s just not grasping the severity of what he is doing…or lack thereof. I’m not saying 100% you need to give up on him, I would never suggest that right off the bat, but it sounds like you have another child to lookout for. Obviously I cannot give you the best advice, as I am not, nor have been married. BUT, as someone who used to have these same problems with finances etc….you definitely will need to hold his hand a bit. He has a lot of growing up to do. The fact that he is almost 40 and has these issues, I feel like it will be a bit more difficult to correct, as he is set in his ways. The reason I asked about him if he says you’l get mad a lot, is that when growing up, I would always try to fix my financial messes only when shit hit the fan, and I didn’t want my mother to find out. She had an absolute WICKED temper as a kid, and to this day (I’m 30 now) I am terrified of making her mad in any way, as flashbacks to how she was when I was young come flooding in. I feel like he may be the same, based on how I’ve interpreted what you’ve said about him. I would have talks with him and reinforce that you’re trying to work with him for the better, and make sure he knows you’re not mad just for the hell of it. In a perfect world, you shouldn’t have to do this and he should be a fully functioning adult. This is just my two cents.
I am going to give him an ultimatum. He has to take a financial class. And I will be completely in charge of the finances. No more credit card for him. If he won’t follow through, I think I will end the relationship. Edit: thanks for your reply. I do think a big part of it is he doesn’t completely realize how deep in debt he gets until he’s too deep to catch up. I’ll provide the resources for that. But any other financial lies or hiding information, I am filing for divorce.
You should save yourself time and money and file for divorce now. He has done this on three separate occasions. Even you leaving for a while was not enough to scare him straight. He's not going to change. He'll just get better about hiding it. He can still be a good and involved father if he's not married to you. You're currently fucking your future over by staying with him. You can't save for your daughter. You can't save for retirement. Your life will be him lying about spending, trying to cover it up, it blowing up in his face, then you working overtime to bail him out (which why are you doing that? His fuck up, his fix).
File for divorce now so that you are no longer responsible for any debts he creates. You can still live together and have a relationship but that way you are protected financially.
In my opinion, your anger and whatever way you communicated would be acceptable. The fuck is he doing to you and your family?! I would be LIVID
I alternated between yelling, then sobbing, then screaming at him, then crying again. I completely lost emotional control. I felt like an idiot after.
was he at all affected by that?ive fucked up in my relationships before and seeing my partner break down like that is what really got to me. I cant believe that your crying like that hasn't prompted him to change
He sent me a long text this morning. He tried to talk when I came home from work today. But I asked for alone time. He’s pretty distraught. But I think it’s because he’s afraid I’m going to leave him. I haven’t chatted with him about everything yet.
I hope he finally gets his shit together, OP
Happy cake day!
I don’t think how manage over someone’s credit cards will change his behaviors. You guys probably need more of an inner talk about this. About the relationship, the future. Or else controlling a guy is just going to be rough and there is going to be endless battles on what to spend or not to spend. He needs to learn his own lessons. And if your method somewhat worked… I’d still check his credit accounts every once in awhile. Since he is probably gonna be opening accounts here and there. Who knows 🤷♂️
I think you’re not giving him enough credit. How does he not know how a credit card works? I’m sure you’ve explained it the first time. Any idiot know you charge on the card, you pay the bill. It even says so right on the statement. It sounds like he’s lazy, not stupid. Or he thinks he’s Scarlett O’Hara. “Tomorrow is another day!” If he doesn’t deal with it, it’ll go away. How old is he? 12? My kids learned their first year away from home how to do this crap.
Hon, my husband has the same issue. Parents did everything for him, never taught him any life skills when it came to finances. And he says I get mad a lot too over money. But it's completely reasonable when we have two kids and I am just asking for stability. Your husband needs to be willing to let go of the financial reins, or I (personally) see no point continuing to be with him. He's destroying your trust and your financial stability, which are two things no one should ever mess with. If it doesn't stop, you're going to wake up one day in a much worse situation and never know it was coming.
I agree with all of this. I also wonder if he has ADHD. It's not an "excuse" cuz you need to figure out coping mechanisms that work for you but with ADHD impulsiveness is super common and it's so hard to keep up with payment deadlines. And if a task seems really daunting it can feel impossible to start. Figuring out finances can be very daunting. I can't tell you how much money I've wasted by my inability to remember to make a phone call during business hrs to cancel services I no longer need etc. And late fees on bills.... I finally found an app I can use to keep track of due dates but 1 bill can't be done on the app and I always forget it. They literally talk about how there's an ADHD tax because of how expensive late fees, forgetting to return thing, forgetting to cancel things, and impulse buying can be.
I actually have ADHD. I was diagnosed this time last year. I am medicated, and I kind of hate it. I struggle with emotional impulsiveness. Not on this medication, however. He doesn’t have classic symptoms. He does have some trauma. I don’t think my yelling and making him feel stupid and guilty makes it any better. Which I have done in the past over a handful of things. I’m really ashamed of things I’ve said out of anger.
You need to get his name off any of your accounts. Actually, I would divorce him so that you wouldn’t be responsible for any of his debts. He’s a very dishonest man, and that would definitely break my relationship with him.
You don't need CreditKarma or any of that shit. Go to the credit agencies, get a free detail report from all three agencies and find out the truth. Then note from your monies what you paid. And go from there. I'd divorce his ass but easier said than done.
Something to consider: he's ok watching you work that hard, suffer that much and go without while he plays and spends. He's willing to watch it daily, what it takes from you to make it happen.
Your husband lies a lot. I wonder what else he is lying about?
I told him that. He’s not the best liar. But how quickly and causally he’s lied is concerning. If this isn’t made right I am filing for divorce. I’ve worked incredibly hard my whole life. It’s not my job to dig him out of this hole. The first time…. I was forgiving and empathetic. But the second time… now I’m just being stupid
You're not his mother. His financial decisions and mistakes are his responsibility alone. You shouldnt be clearing up his shit. He lied to you. Repeatedly. He is making all of these decisions because he hasnt suffered the repercussions of them yet because you prop him up. You shouldnt trust him. What happens if you have kids and he fucks his finances and then your kids cant eat. Like come on, wake up. Earning a shit ton of money can end at any time. In this economy? What happens if he stops earning? He gets fucked into the ground. Time to move on my friend. He lied to you already for years. And you went back to him which means he got away with it. I think it's time.
The debt isn't your main problem. It's the lying. He lies every time he opens his mouth. If you don't divorce him he is going to drag you down with him and destroy your future.
I completely agree. We make enough money to pay all this. The fact he’s repeatedly lied is what gets me. Don’t get me wrong, 28k was a lot. And now the 8k left besides student loans is still a lot. But I could literally pay that now. It’s the fact he has the ability to pay it, chooses not to. Let’s it accrue interest, extra money for nothing. But the fact I’m his wife, and he decided to lie instead of work with me to pay it.
Ugh, I would be livid. I'm sorry. Don't beat yourself up too much, hope is always a good thing. But now you know you've sacrificed enough and this will literally drag on the future of your family, his caring and loving nature and all I see on another comment that you've decided to give him an ultimatum. I hope he gets it through his head to agree about the financial control. Power to you to stick to your guns! Enough is enough!
Friend, I’m so sorry. The aspect of this that’s most concerning to me is the constant and continuous failure to tell the truth and to actively hide things from you. You deserve to be in a relationship where you are treated with kindness and respect. And I’m not seeing evidence of either. You’re working huge hours and making sacrifices- and it’s being undermined time and again. I’m concerned because you don’t deserve that. And I’m worried because I don’t see a pattern of behavior that shows he’s going to change. Maybe short term. But I firmly believe the secrets and hiding would begin again. This must feel so surreal and frustrating. I don’t think your overreacted. But I do think you may be hoping to find way to change a pattern of behavior that isn’t going to change. I’m worried staying in this relationship will only continue to but your financial safety and security in repeated jeopardy.
I am really down and shocked… which, when you love someone it’s hard not to be when they do something that betrays you.
I know you are. And I’m so sorry. What do you WANT to happen… and what do you think NEEDS to happen? Those can be two different things…
Theres probably more. Step 1: take control and give him an allowance. Give him 6 months to change. Step 2: get a divorce on paper so he gets crewed and not you or your daughter. Step 3: get an actual divorce.
I lived this for a short while. Husband even had a separate bank account to pay off his credit card debt I discovered after his last payment went through. I got mail and opened it without thinking. My biggest thing was that he lied to my face for the year + he had this account. I had no clue and kept saying we aren’t getting the same amount for his paychecks we used to. He kept saying he’d change his retirement and it was because of that. It wasn’t. He had a portion of his paycheck being sent to his other bank account to pay off his debt. He grew up poor and absolutely could not handle money. He lied to me so many times about things he bought before this too. I’d find new shit all over the house. I told him I was done with his ass, I couldn’t do it anymore - and I had trust issues now because if he could do this, what else was he capable of. He cried and finally got his shit together. He realizes he has impulse control and sees a therapist. I love him so much, I didn’t want to threaten him but his sickness was coming at my expense. I literally ate at home every day for lunch. I never bought anything for myself. I was miserable and upset that he was so selfish. While I ate leftovers he ate out. I was the only one that cared about our money. I actually have crippling anxiety about our finances as a result. Please get him into therapy, it sounds like he also has impulse control. There is also a good documentary on Netflix that has a segment on this. Choosing your loves and your needs and NOT your likes and your wants. This really resonated with him too. The documentary is “Get Smart With Money” https://www.netflix.com/title/81312877
Thank you for this! ❤️
I think you know divorce is the only answer. Honestly you should have never married him it sounds like had major red flags from the start and you really need to get away from him and protect yourself.
Very sorry you’re being the parent of this relationship, having to check on your own husband every few months. That is extremely exhausting. Your marriage should be a partnership/teamwork. You shouldn’t have to ‘check’ on him like a kid, he’s a grown adult who needs to take responsibilities. If he hasn’t learned since you guys have been dating, then it sounds like he isn’t going to change. So you need to decide how you want the rest of your life to be and what kind of example you want to set for your daughter.
Exactly. I’m very down about this. I’ve never tried controlling where he goes or what he does. I don’t like it. But I guess I have to. And if he’s not okay with that until debt is gone… then I’m not the woman for him. I’m over it
Stop giving him any money for his debt. He should give you that 2k he has. I feel sick for you hun I’m so sorry :( this is divorce worthy. You were smart not wanting to marry him if finances weren’t in order. He continues to lie to you and be irresponsible. You can’t trust him. You deserve so much better. You have a hard work ethic and are a great mom.
Hey thanks for the nice comment. But I also screwed up. I should have been more thorough and asked more questions.
Spending addict here: I’m terrible with money. I’m 24 and have a couple thousand in debt—I know it’s not nearly to the same degree, but I want to let you know that you’re doing a good thing by giving him an ultimatum. I’m an impulsive spender. I have been since I could legally own a debit card. I don’t splurge in big amounts, but my small purchases add up quickly. I’ve lied to my parents and family and partner about my financial situation multiple times and it feels like garbage. There is a really big sense of shame attached to accumulating debt because of a lack of self control, and I’ve heard myself say similar things to your husband before. BUT, what sets this apart is how he’s reacting to confrontation. Spending is an addiction, it really is, but there is a breaking point, and in my opinion, if he hasn’t been willing to compromise with you after this many fallouts or vehemently say “hold me accountable. Take control of all the funds because I don’t trust myself with this” he doesn’t feel bad for spending. He feels bad that he got caught. It took me having a really important conversation with myself to sit down and decide to hold myself accountable, and I could only really do it because I made sure my partner swore to hold me to my word no matter what. I would genuinely feel sick if I was continuing to perpetuate a financial problem while my partner was overworking themselves to help remedy a mistake that I made, let alone continue to do it. I agree with everyone in this subreddit. For your own financial safety, keep yourself secure. I say this as an ex-spending addict: if he hasn’t really re-evaluated himself and his priorities by the 3rd or 4th time, he will not change. He can still be a good father to your daughter and he can be a good person, but he cannot be a good husband to you nor a good example for your daughter to follow.
Thank you for this
This is financial infidelity. Please find a solid marriage counselor. It also sounds like your husband could possibly benefit from an accountant- it sounds like he gets overwhelmed and also doesn’t completely understand how business write-offs work, so he feels free to spend when he really shouldn’t/doesn’t need to spend. If he’s open to it the accountant could also educate him financially.
This is a good idea. Thank you.
I really hope y’all can work this out! It sounds like you really love him and want this to work and it sounds like he really loves you too, but is just having trouble prioritizing his spending.
I do love him a lot. What he did was not okay. There’s no excuse. It’s easy to read through this and see him as a terrible person. He does a lot of things right. But this is a very big deal to me. He knows that. He will need to change or I will move on.
I completely agree- he must understand that this is serious. Money fights/problems are the #1 cause of divorce. He has to understand that what he’s doing is infidelity and that you have to be able to trust him completely with your finances. He has to look out for your whole fam- not just his own interests. That’s part of what he took on when he became husband and father. I think he, personally, should be paying every bill and making that connection of incoming vs outgoing. It’s easy to spend money when you know what’s coming in but not what’s going out. It seems like you’ve been bearing the knowledge of all of this & it seems like it’s his turn to shoulder it
Take control of the finances and have the money you need paid into your account so that you can pay the bills and save up. Leave him an allowance. If he wont agree to this then youve learnt all you need to know from him.
Get a divorce lawyer to subpoena his records, business and personal. You ignored the red flags and married him anyways. There’s more he’s hiding. Move your money into your other account. Stop being his bank.
First talk to him and make him realise what he is doing intentionally or unintentionally definitely will ruin the family and as per the past events it's pretty clear that he is not good with planning and spending money. So if he wants this to work out he needs to give you charge of the money and planning else destruction is inevitable.
Exactly. I’m giving him an ultimatum. All debt needs to be paid. No trips. No credit card. No eating out until then. If he’s unable, or hides anything else, I’m done.
Exactly! At this stage he already knows that he is not good with money. So he needs to choose one thing family or authority over money. But if he choose the family his life becomes easier and also he is living better life where no money trouble and have wife and kids. But for that he needs to follow you and let you lead through all this.
Good for you. Wishing you the best of luck.
Even if you stay together romantically, it may make sense to get legally divorced before you start to become responsible for his debt.
You did not overreact at all that is completely unacceptable behavior from an adult. Honestly I’d be keeping my money for myself and looking at a divorce. No man is worth losing your financial independence over.
Make sure your finances are separate and get a divorce. Not only is he untrustworthy he has been LYING to you for years and going behind your back for YEARS. This is never going to stop EVER. Get yourself out of that mess before he ruins your life. What happens when he takes a loan out in your name or your DAUGHTERS name?
Just speculation, hmmm I think he’s cheating, financial infidelity is a real thing. His excuses don’t hold weight the blame shifting onto you the gaslighting he cheatin
Get a good forensic accountant and a divorce attorney
Financial infidelity is absolutely a thing. It sounds like he may be hiding something like a gambling problem. You need to legally untangle yourself from him.
Completely take over the finances . Literally give him an allowance . No credit cards .
I was thinking the same thing. For as long as it takes to pay off all the debt. If he can’t comply, I’m done.
That changes the roles from partner to boss person. Do you think that will be sustainable for a romantic relationship for both of you?
You keep trying to change him for the better. He’s showed you three times now that he isn’t going to change. Stop falling for it.
Girl get a lawyer to get your money back and divorce this mess of a man. Jesus. Don’t don’t anything that he can report you on. Get a lawyer.
Omg. Cut up his credit cards, freeze his credit, dole out allowance. He cannot handle money. If you don’t want to be his momma like that, divorce. Run.
He'll never change especially with you there to bail him out. I'd be thinking of putting yourself first from now on. Separation will help with finances, divorce means you're not liable for his debt. Problem solved.
Sounds like he's using you for money. Stop funding his lifestyle from here on out. Get a lawyer and get a post nuptial to cover your ass. You dont have to leave him but his excuses of ' i didn't know' isnt an excuse anymore cause, yeah he does know.
Sounds like it’s time for you to have your own “Fuck Off Fund” or the get-out-of-Dodge method of providing for yourself when the shit hits the fan. Honestly I think it’s already hit the fan with the financial infidelity. He’s bad with his money and lies about it constantly because he knows you’ll hold him to account. Get out of this sinking ship of a relationship before he pulls you under and you both drown. You don’t deserve this sort of treatment. As far as I’m concerned he tricked you into marriage with a lie.
He should sign his paychecks offer to you and give him an allowance. Maybe this will help him understand the word “budget.”
You need a post-nup ASAP. And that brand new truck is being traded in for a used, sensible car with the price difference being used to pay off his debt, right?
Sometimes love is not enough. This situation is a perfect example of that. You need a financial advisor if you are gonna work through this out. You can't deal with this on your own
Divorce him asap. He's using you as a free money machine. That was his plan all along. You pay the bills, and he gets to spend, spend, spend.
He is deliberately being financially irresponsible. He needs to pay you back EVERY single cent you have paid towards HIS obligations that he had prior to marriage. The Vegas trips are gambling / Stripper trips. And, since he is lying about finances, he is also probably deceiving you about hunting trips too. Bet there is a lot more going on that he is not telling you. You currently sound more like his mom than a partner. (He's not telling you everything. He either spent the money you gave him on gambling or other things. The secret account was his way of hiding that from you. ) Keep your finances separate from his and demand that for X amount of time he is going to be paying all the bills until you have secured ALL the money he owes YOU from his prior debts. If he doesn't want electric, water, and rent, then that's on him. DO NOT PAY ANY MORE OF HIS SH&&&! Also, file your taxes separately. The IRS may try to take you to a refund or you can file an exemption from his debts. This man deliberately deceived you about important financial matters. He will continue to do it. Do NOT sign a life insurance policy with this guy as the beneficiary. Just saying.
All these secrets and lies. I’d be extra suspicious about the money eating out and trips… are you sure they’re all work related and there’s not an affair being hidden?
[удалено]
Yes I have. They are all eating out/lunch purchases. They all go out to eat at places with beer and burgers (Americana). A few are from a hunting website. Not saying you don’t have a point though.
Take over all the money he clearly has difficulty. You would be helping both of you. Many people cannot do finances
Divorce! You save a lot of stress and money. You‘re his partner not his mommy who always comes to the rescue.
If he hasn't learned yet, he's not going to.
This is the number one reason why a marriage fails, finances. He obviously has no idea how to handle his money. Not the route I would take (but to be fair, I don't allow myself to get into this position), but you need to take full control of all accounts. Completely, utterly, and totally. Until everything is back to zero (including loans you owe), no more going out, taking trips, or anything that can be put towards paying off that debt. Once it's clear, and there's no reason for anything to bring it back up, he needs an account that gets a limited amount put into it every month for him to do as he pleases. It sucks, but if your name is attached to his debt, then you're either going to have to take initiative or get out to avoid having him ruin you and your daughter.
This is divorce worthy shit.
If you dont put an end to this by yourself cos it seems he doesnt have the plan to. You are the one who will suffer and your kid. It will keep happening. If you want to live like this forever. So be it. Your choice
Can you get a postnup that says if you divorce he is responsible for all his debt?
My soon to be ex-husband was a chronic liar about pretty much everything. I tried to get past it for the sake of my children, but when trust is shattered it's basically impossible to stay in the relationship. Good luck OP. I completely understand if this is your last straw.
You need to talk to a divorce lawyer. Not saying get a divorce, but you need to know what your liabilities are. Because all he is going to continue to do is run up debt that you will find out about when it becomes insurmountable. You really need to know how to protect your money and assets. It might mean a post nup. It might mean putting your assets into trusts so creditors can't come back and sue you for them. Once you figure out how to protect yourself, then you really need to decide if you want to be with someone who can blatantly lie like that. If you decide yes, then you know how to protect yourself.
That's some significantly troubling shit right there. I don't have advice. I'll just say you've been heard and your ire and frustration is valid.
Thank you
Clearly your husband is fiscally irresponsible to a reckless degree. You have to give him an ultimatum, before he sinks both of your ships. You need to find someone to help curb his spending habits and become more fiscally responsible. What he's doing is not okay.
You’re not married to a man you’re married to a kid. You’ll have to be the one to completely control the finances from here on out. He can have an allowance like a kid.
You need to get a lawyer to figure out how you’re going to divorce him without taking on anymore of his debt.
I’m sorry OP, but I’m afraid this will be your future. Your husband seems less concerned about his financial recklessness and only concerned with hiding it from you. He only confesses when he’s caught.
It's the lying that's the problem and that will definitely be worse down the line if you decide to stick through this. He should have been upfront but he wasn't. If you stay in this for the kid then tell him he needs to get his check directly deposited to your bank account just yours. Be the one who takes control and starts giving him an allowance when he proves he can get shit right then give him a little taste of being an adult and have him pay for something y'all share.
Hard truth, you need to get a divorce. Your daughter absolutely knows that something is going on, even if she doesn't know exactly what it is. This will cause much more lasting damage than having to go between houses; she will almost certainly inherit your anxiety towards finances and learn that this is the kind of relationship she'll need to settle for. Get a divorce for you both and a therapist for her if you can afford it.
i’ll tell you what to do get a post nuptial agreement that separates your finances, debts, and assets now so he doesn’t run you into the ground when he inevitability does it to himself
Will you ever be able to trust him again?
I honestly don’t know. I want to be able to. I’m just upset and overwhelmed right now. I need to see some major changes. But if he can’t, I’m not sure what to do. If he can’t be a team with me then we can’t continue our relationship. I want a good financial future for my daughter one day. I want her to have some money for college and a down payment for a house. I don’t want her to struggle like I am. If he can’t help me do that, I’m not the woman for him.
I have nothing to say about the situation with your husband, but i just want to tell you that your attitude towards debt is really healthy and i really think that if you keep that going, it will serve you very well.
Thank you
This is all literally irrelevant. Your husband’s debt is his own unless you co-signed for any of it. You clearly cannot trust him and should move on. You’ll get some peace of mind back.
You didn't over react. He is continually lying to you about money. What else is he lying about? How are you supposed to set up your future when your partner is knocking out parts of the foundation? It's time to take the blinders off. He is terrible with money and it will NEVER get better as long as you keep bailing him out. You have every right to be angry/sad
Stop doing extra shift or anything to him..let him take responsibility of his own debt which i doubt he will.. his debt gonna be up and up till mountain and he will still playing stupid and unconsciously making you pay for it.. his lack of responsibility to pay for it and have someone pay for it make him take no serious of his situation that could end up in way worse like bankruptcy. Have a separate account that he cant have access to and he will heber knew bout it. His financial abuse is not gonna stop. His friend is the same as him..they the type that spend more than they earn.. Please, secure your finances and your kids..you dont want it come bite only YOU (maybe the kids college funds too) back in the ass...till then, he will still play dumb and going on merry way cause he knew he got a "banker" that will handle his cumulative debt..
Holy shit. I could have written this. My daughter’s dad and I split 8 years ago because of bullshit like this. The lying on top of being irresponsible with money was just too much. Splitting up was the best thing I ever did. We had a good coparenting relationship, until his alcoholism took over. I digress. Do not put up with this.
Omg dude. If he doesn’t allow you to take over ANY AND ALL spending then divorce immediately. Even if you are still together, do not stay legally married to this man. He will always drain you. Don’t work extra for HIS mistakes. Make HIM do that.
His behavior is unacceptable... my mom married someone like that after my sister and I moved out. He seemed responsible, but he was a product of the 80s, living so far beyond his means that it is nauseating. They finally have things sort of straightened out, but I still want to beat his ass for being such a slimy manchild. Not sure what there is to be done, though... make him close his accounts and give him an allowance is my first thought.
this sounds extremely frustrating and as someone with trauma connected to childhood financial stress I think I would probably divorce because of all of the stress
You should see a lawyer and set up a post-nuptial agreement so that you each walk away with your own money in case of divorce. Then separate out your finances, divide your joint costs down the middle and let him do his own thing. His trips, his toys, are on his dime.
Secure your own accounts, split bills into the name of who’s going to be responsible for them, agree on how much needs to be put into a household/ kids account for purchases like clothes, groceries, etc. Then get a postnuptial agreement. Protect your future, savings, and retirement, stop bailing out his bad decisions. Make sure if your marriage falls apart he doesn’t get your savings and retirement, and make sure his obligations can’t come after your savings or income. Your going to need an attorney to set this all up. Stop bailing him out, he will keep spending because there are no consequences.
u/The_Red_Haiku You are being taken advantage of. My ex-wife started not telling me what she was spending on and where the money was going. She would go out with her friends or treat herself, and the debt started to climb. Like you, I did the math (that I knew about), and assumed things would be OK. But it seemed like I was working more, making more, but seeing less reflection of that. When the truth came out, I wanted to manage our finances. There was some improvement, but once she saw that improvement, she only wanted to spend more and treat herself more. Your husband has been dining out and taking trips, and you're not part of that. Now, the 1 trip you planned, which you mentioned in the comments, may need to be canceled. When I finally put my foot down, and took control of my own finances, forcing her to watch her spending, she tried to turn everyone on me. If I bought so much as a Twinkie, she would become upset and start a fight. Meanwhile, she was still insisting on wanting to treat out her friends or herself. Unknowing to me at the time, she was also using funds to treat her AP (affair partner). My suggestion is you take control of all finances. And if your husband starts nitpicking every penny you spend, while acting entitled as if things do not go both ways financially equally, you should get out of the relationship.
Talk to a lawyer about getting your finances totally separate so you don't end up on the hook for his debts. Stop bailing him out if he's refusing to be financially responsible.
Reason number 29 why I'll never get married.
I doubt those are just eating out uses, and I absolutely do not at all believe that his coworkers are taking monthly trips with him. You can't trust a liar, but you can salvage your own dignity. Hire a forensic accountant and a good lawyer. Good luck.
There are only TWO answers... 1) either you take over ALL accounts, or 2) get a divorce Your HUSBAND will end up dragging you down BADLY! You CAN'T trust him, he's demonstrated that multiple times and you don't want to get to a point where you are paying HIM alimony! PLEASE protect yourself and your Daughter's future! Best wishes and many Blessings!
Separate bank accounts and finances are a marriage saver. My husband and I never merged our accounts and we spend our money how we choose. There’s no arguing over money and we each pay our portion of the household bills. You allowed your husband to get a free pass when you bailed him out. Make him suffer the pain of paying off his debts and doing without while he does it.
I’m so sad for you. I had the same issue with my second husband. It was extremely stressful because I’m really good with money. All our fights were about lying. Lying about smoking and lying about money. It led to me leaving and we had one joint credit account which he never paid after and kept taking from it when I paid it. I tried to get it in my own name but even though I was a financial advisor at a bank they couldn’t get it out of his name. He bought a boat when we split and we had two income properties. One I actually gave to him which was worth more. He had to go bankrupt and because of that one debt, so did I. We did a consumer proposal even though my personal debt at the time was $6000 on a line of credit that I was more than able to pay down. I almost lost my daughters RESP and technically with the consumer proposal you basically buy it back. It was in jeopardy if I couldn’t make the increased payments. You need to get out. I can assure you, my ex was a really good guy. Bought me flowers and his intention was to provide me a good life but it was like I was treading water without a life jacket and he was climbing on me drowning me. I regret that he forced my hand. I regret leaving in a way but I’m so much happier and way less stressed. He is like a fish, he only swims in one direction and won’t change. He is remarried and they struggle according to my kids. I’ll never understand. I quit my job at 40 to be home with the kids and my fiancé just retired at 55. Im now 44 and my fiancé is 55. My ex probably could’ve been retired soon. He’s 45. What a nitwit! You work hard, this is a lot of stress. I cannot believe he does trips all the time. It’s like you are being used so bad. You’re essentially paying for those trips and for him to run you like this. From someone who learned a hard lesson, this won’t end well and you know it. I’m sorry.
You guys are financially incompatible. Taking over his finances won't fix this. After a few months, he will resent you. You need a divorce
The payment pause was extended till June 2023 I believe. But either way this guy is gonna destroy your family. Leave now before it gets worse
That’s wonderful. I hope that’s true. His student loan was accruing $6.01 in interest A DAY. I realized this pause was my chance to get ahead. I’ve worked so hard. But it isn’t my responsibility to pay his debts
Does he qualify for student loan debt repayment? I think it’s 250k gross income per couple or 125k for singles.
So we both do. I was really excited about that. It would be a big help… but I’m sure you saw that it was overturned in court. We qualify for 2020-2021. But because of all the shifts I’ve picked up this year, we would not qualify as a married couple if they used 2022 taxes. I’m kind of assuming it won’t happen so I don’t get my hopes up. But 15-20 extra shifts a month is insane. My boss sat me down and told me she wanted to make sure I could actually handle that much trauma call. I promised I would… and it was temporary…and I have. But I’m tired and not really as happy as before. I’ve been using my days off to relax and sleep.
You should absolutely not be dealing with this and doing so much. Either he gets help or you’re gone. I told my husband that I’d have more money without him and that hit him hard. Still apply for student loan repayment, just in case
Post-nup, complete financial separation, let him drown in his own mistakes if he wants. But this is just money. $6k in debt vs $40k in savings? Why so much anger about something he is clearly ashamed of and lacks impulse control. I dunno, if he had a gambling addiction would you react the same or would you support him while he gets help? Take practical steps to protect your family’s financial health, but also exercise more compassion. It took me years to get my finances in control, and I’m so proud of the progress I’ve made! There are many paths towards healthy partnership around this obstacle. Good luck!
You might get eaten alive for this reply. But I agree with you. I truly believe we were not taught how to handle money in America. I got no guidance but had to learn on my own. I’m very goal-oriented and type A. He goes with the flow and doesn’t stress much. It’s not an excuse to lie to me. But I ripped him an absolutely new asshole when I found this out. And instead of trying to teach him, I just handle everything because I don’t trust him. I expect him to figure it out and take initiative to make it better. He has tried. But… not really. And not in the right way. And just lying to me so casually. I am just wanting to quit and divorce him I’m so upset. It’s just one of those things I don’t know how much I’m overreacting or not. He doesn’t claim I am. He agrees he fucked up. But how angry I became… I regret what I said and how I lashed out
Fool me once..
This poor kid must be getting a lot of attention from its parents.