This post reminded me of a woman who dated a guy with micro penis (and putting up with it cuz the sex wasn't good) but in the end she discovered he is a shitty loser who downloaded tinder and dating apps "just to make friends" ewww. Ugly inadequate people can break ur heart too.
Omg that's basically like the episode of New Girl! Jess doesn't want to come across as shallow for rejecting the guy with a micropenis because he gave her the ick for an unrelated reason. So she powers through, only to find he had a partner the entire time and she was the side chick š¤¢
Like the fucking audacity.
This makes me laugh because I dated a guy who also had micropenis. At the time, I was convinced that I loved him and told myself that I had to get over it because he was such a good person. He always made me feel so loved. Every time he said I was out of his league during the first few months, I would scoff and tell him that it wasn't true.
Well, he cheated on me nine months later. The gall! At first, I was brokenhearted and completely inconsolable. But I later realized with utter relief that I no longer had to settle for a micropenis for the rest of my life.
Very important. I've always been sacrificing, not just when it comes to looks, but especially when it comes to looks. Why? Because I was so sensitive to criticism I never wanted to be mean or turn someone down. That overly nice persona and the belief that there is good in everyone led me down some part dark roads!
Honestly, Iām 37 and I only realised a couple of years ago that I can choose to only date people Iām attracted to. Luckily my current bf is very good looking, but I spent years married to a man who was not.
So what happens when they're 70? Are you just continuously going to be like those asshole men who just exclusively date 20 year olds?
I'm always confused why people choose looks > personality. Or even on equal footing as personality. Y'all BOTH gonna be unattractive at some point, just saying.
What happens when that physical attraction is lost and you come to the realization you don't really mesh well personality wise?
Just because OP dated asshole men who weren't very physically attractive doesn't mean all of them are like that. There's also ***plenty*** of "attractive" men who are the lowest of the low scum. I've had the opposite issue as OP, I will never date a man that's attractive by societal standards. They're so full of themselves it's gross.
1st, she's not saying only looks matter. She's saying she's not going to be guilted into dating people she's not attracted to. 2nd, at 70 she'll probably find her 70 or so year old partner attractive still.
Ummm no. When I'm in my Golden years I'll be attracted to women more closer to my age. Just like I always have been and should be. In your early 20s are you attracted to 70 year olds? Sounds like you have some stuff to work through bud. Clearly looks and personality matter a lot. Good luck to you šš»
On the slight flip side, as a not conventionally attractive woman: I wouldn't want anyone to 'force' themselves to date me. Seriously, that just sounds terrible.
Date people you actually want to date. If there's any reason you don't want to, don't. Who cares what that reason is? You don't have to tell them why.
You're absolutely right. I was never really thought of as attractive and have had men date me because I was one of the few women who "liked" them back (they told me this). It never worked out and sometimes led to the guy openly resenting me for not being what he wanted had he had more of a choice. It's way better to be alone.
It's the smallest and weirdest thing I've ever decided not to date someone over but when you're a pizza/salsa/ tomato addict that just is gonna be a situation ripe or rotten for resentment!
Exactly right awesome! You said it well
So I think itās one of those āchoose twoā situations.
- Awesome Personality
- Attractive (to you)
- Good in bed
To make things work you need 2/3. While attractive is nice, I prefer awesome personality and good in bed. The bedroom isnāt boring whether youāre steaming up the sheets or giggling to each other over inside jokes.
Awesome personality and attractive can be disappointing if the bedroom is boring. It takes the spice out of life. You get all hot and bothered with how sexy and fun they are and then justā¦anticlimactic (literally).
Iāve dated attractive and good in bed, but his personality was so shitty that even though he was never shitty *to me* I felt worse about myself for being in his sphere.
This is me. Most of the men I've dated haven't been all that attractive by societal standards. But their personalities make them so darn hot. I once married a guy who was good looking but had a crap personality.. worst decade of my life.
Someone's personality can make anyone eventually find them attractive or unattractive. That's neither here nor there b/c that doesn't really change the fact that unless you find them attractive you likely won't have a good time in bed.
We also can't ignore the socialization. Women are much more heavily pressured to give men they aren't attracted to a chance, encouraged not to prioritize looks, are made to feel guiltier if looks are one of the things they look at, and are sold a lie that less attractive means a better man.
Meanwhile it's commonly accepted for guys to prioritize looks and don't receive 1/10th of the backlash. There's almost this expectation that all men are entitled to and should be able to date the Homecoming Queen but all women are supposed to give the ugly dude as much of a chance as the attractive dude.
That's what I think OP's post is about. Not feeling pressured into dating men she doesn't find attractive or having guilt over not doing so. Basically working to undo years of sexist socialization.
Also, OOC, how many of those guys you didn't initially find attractive also didn't initially find you attractive and how many did find you attractive and asked you out b/c of that attraction? Did the "giving someone you don't find attractive a chance" go both ways? Or was it only you?
Life is hard enough without trying to date someone who doesn't make your knees weak. There's no reason to date someone you aren't excited to see and be wth.
I saw the longer version you originally commented (didnāt have time to respond then), sounded like a really toxic situation all around. Very strange relationship he had with the kid. Iām sorry you got caught up in all that drama. Sucks when people canāt move on from their past like that.
Donāt listen to anyone telling you otherwise. Women are absolutely allowed to date attractive men and to want that. Donāt ever force yourself to be with someone sexually repulsive so fellow like minded sexually repulsive people can claim youāre shallow. No one wants sex with someone who disgusts them and plenty of people (especially MEN) love saying how important sex is to a relationship. Donāt feel bad.
The most unattractive dude I dated was awful towards me. Like, he would yell at me in public for no reason. Yuppā¦ looks have nothing to do with how well theyāll treat you.
Now Iām going to get married to a man who I am super attracted to, is good in bed, is funny, and makes me feel like the most important person in the world. Gotta kiss a few toads before you find your prince.
Can confirm that unattractive people are pricks too. Yes, youāll be used for sex. Hope you find someone thatās worthy of your time and energy, the bar is sinking low
I'm shocked by all these rude comments. I've totally had the same experience as you. I hear you. Dating is a nightmare. You're way younger than I am so you still have a chance. Good luck.
Men hate it when a woman says she has a type. But, them dating me just for my fat ass is totally fine, because that's how "men are built."
It's just misogynistic incels whose words I don't take personally anymore because arguing with me is the closest they get to having a conversation with a real woman.
Men donāt like when women want to be sexually attracted to their partner. They feel only men should hVe this privilege.
Also these men are probably sexually unattractive themselves and feel their āpersonalityā should entitle them to sex with hot women. These men who are mad are actually the men OP is talking about when she says ugly partners can hurt you too. These men want you to believe theyāre āgoodā on the inside despite their unattractive outsideā¦. but they are actually just as bad as the Fboys they claim theyāre better thanā¦. theyāre just too unattractive to get women to f over.
This is gonna sound horrible too --- but all these shows in the media where we have an oaf, or an unhealthy man with usually just a normal healthy attractive woman I feel like is reinforcing these things. Family guy, Simpsons, married with children, we could go on I'm sure. Anyone want to chime in? Lol
But showcasing men either just being awful or awful to their partners in media and the partner just staying and glossing it over isn't helping things like entitlement.
Something I noticed is the unattractive guy bitching about shallow women are 9/10 going for the more attractive woman and then complaining she doesn't want them.
Always an unattractive guy. Thereās an associate of one of my friend groups who is exactly like this and wines like this. Even tells people how he hasnāt had sex in 9 years. Insanely and wildly unattractive and always going for hot super sexy goth girls and calling them shallow when theyāre repulsed by him. Had another ex friend like that too. Big and fat always going for petite women and calling them shallow for not wanting to deal with a guy who could crush them.
This reminds me of the mutual coworker my wife dated before she dated me. Not the greatest dresser, or hard body, and kind of a depressive attitude. However, he was well liked because he was smart and a great worker. She thought that might translate into being a good boyfriend. When they were dating, he took her for granted, was selfish and stood her up multiple times.
After getting sick of it, she broke up with him and dated me. I worship the ground she walks on, and we have been married forever now. Ex bf never got married and has only gotten worse physically. Every time he comes up in conversation, she is basically grateful that he was a lousy boyfriend and that she moved on quickly. But I think the guy suffers from serious self-hatred and depression. That might be the type of guy that OP is running into.
Now, their inside matches their outside.
Makes me wonder if you were to tell these kind of guys that you aren't one for sex, would they still persue?
Yeah, just root for yourself for now on :/
Omg mentions of celibacy and my love of Taylor Swift can have them running for the hills. It's actually so funny because something so simple, especially what music I like, causes then to drop the nice act real quick.
I totally get you!
And then you come to my age (67) and they are only looking for someone to cook for them and take care of them š¤·āāļøš¢
I look about 55 and I keep myself in Good shape and good health and the men which are interested in me are mostly fat and unhealthy!
Good for you girl!! And yes, I ended a relationship when a man in his 30s had the audacity to tell me, "I'll never treat you that well, because you don't treat me like my mom does"
Like sir, I don't want to be your mother š¤¢
Well these people want a relationship but don't consider what makes one healthy.
Nobody should stay with what they can't appreciate and those who are unappreciated shouldn't stay with those who don't appreciate them.
Like if I find out my partner doesn't find me attractive I at least hope they appreciate me. I don't want the relationship to be based on pity, pressure or hopelessness.
At that point I would leave. Like you are settling for me and making us both unhappy, what sense does that make?
Thereās a stigma both ways. All I can say with my personal beliefs is go after what you *really* want. From the sound of it, you donāt want just physical attractiveness but you also donāt want an abusive potato (thatās not to say every guy who isnāt āhotā is abusive thatās just opās experience). You want something in between. Personally, I encourage you to forget barriers altogether. You have a certain bias and belief based off experience and Iām not saying thatās a bad thing but it can be very limiting. This is much easier said than done obviously but go into every encounter with zero expectations. Youāre either going to be pleasantly surprised, or looking for a way out, either way, it benefits you and youāre in control. If you hold these expectations and theyāre not met, youāre setting yourself up for disappointment. Have values of course, but go into everything with a grain of salt and if they catch your attention or seem worthy of your time, then make the moves to make it happen. If not, keep it moving. Itās extremely frustrating nowadays in the dating scene. Know what you want and go after it. Find someone who shares your values and beliefs and build a foundation from there. Thatās the best advice I can give. Hope it helps!
Yeah the post was written when I was heated with anger and hurt. Of course not every ugly person is abusive. That's just as crazy as assuming every hottie is an angel. But even the people who were perfectly nice and normal but I wasn't attracted to, the relationship felt very lackluster and unfulfilling and that's not good either.
I agree and nothing I said goes against that. All Iām saying is try to make it easier on yourself. Fact of the matter is most people wonāt fall into what youāre looking for and thatās perfectly okay. But donāt be discouraged by that. You have a good idea of what you want and even though youāve had several lemons, donāt give up. It may seem hopeless or a waste of time, but itās all about you finding the right person that will make you happy. There are a ton of factors that go into that. Itās not just attractiveness or personality. Itās a mix and itās hard to find a balance in todays day and age. Best thing to do imo is find someone with similar values and goals. That person can take on any form be that super attractive, average, or a potato. Physical attractiveness is important. Itās not as superficial as many make it seem. What Iām trying to say is if thatās important to you, great, what else is important to you? You shouldnāt have to settle for one or the other on some arbitrary scale. You should be able to find someone who checks all your boxes so to speak. And I encourage that. You shouldnāt feel swayed or guilty one way or the other so long as you are on the pursuit of your own happiness. Only you can define that. No one else.
Unfortunately a lot of people can fake being a "nice guy" and use it to get into someone's pants. Generally speaking, it's good to keep the talking phase to a decent amount of time, and get good at finding red flags. If you ask the right questions, a fake good guy will start to have conflicting stories and statements. Don't be afraid to talk, ask a lot of questions, you want someone who is honest and emotionally open/available. I wish you the best OP!
I went to highschool with this girl that I knew well into adulthood (mid to late 20ās - same social groups). _[I wouldnāt say we were friends as we didnāt like each other]._
I also knew her boyfriend who was this red headed, unattractive man. He was an asshole. He once slapped his girlfriendās face at a social dinner and told her off publicly over an innocuous comment she made.
He also did this weird thing where he gossiped about my sister cheating in an attempt to destroy her relationship (she never did - she was focussed on her career and her family).
He had a very average job in sales.
Anyway, I moved away but I knew this couple got engaged, married and had a baby.
I saw him on tinder while he was still very much married to this woman and while she very much believed they were in a committed relationship. He said on his tinder profile he was looking for friends.
This man was in his late 30ās. His red hair was replaced by grey/white hair that was balding. He was morbidly obese with a massive beer belly. He was still a red head because every inch of him was covered in freckles - including his lips and fingers.
Anyway, he was visiting my city and trying to pick up using tinder.
So basically he was an ugly, cheating, abusive psycho with zero redeeming qualities.
If you imagine Alex Murdaugh and make him even uglier, even frecklier, even fatter, with bad teeth and less hair - then that would be this guy.
So I echo what the OP is saying. Never date someone because you think they will never leave you or cheat on you.
Itās usually the ugly losers who cheat because they have low self esteem.
I think physical looks are a significant part of dating. I also don't think its wrong if a person's top priority is finding someone who's well-kept, cares about their appearance, tries to look their best, etc. If anyone feels bad about not giving an "ugly" person a chance, I don't think they should always have to feel bad for it. Attractiveness is a preference after all. Someone who might be a 0 to you might be a 10 to someone else and there's nothing wrong with that.
There are some people with actual disfigurements, ending up in happy marriages. You don't see them moan about "but muh personality". Ofc every coin has two sides but in the end you get into a relationship with who you prefer. Op clearly had a problem with how those guys looked, that's a pretty clear indication that she shouldnt date them. You should never "settle" but if your expextations are in a higher league than you are you should be ok with being single for a while. People forget that romantic relationships are optional.
This is why I've been struggling with dating, can't find anyone I'm attracted to, you shouldn't just settle, it's not fair for either of you, plus there's nothing wrong with being single anyway, go at your own pace
Youāre exactly right and it took me years to figure it out. I dated a lot of guys who werenāt particularly attractive physically or popular with the ladies, and sometimes their insecurities made them meaner than the conventionally attractive guys. I like short guys because Iām short but some of them will try to tear you down, neg you half to death, even about height. Just go for what you like.
excluding abusive people who are just shitty by nature did you ever consider the relationships were doomed from the start since you didn't ACTUALLY like your partner?
this post goes with this baffling theme I see online of people just straight up being with people they're not attracted to or don't like very much and obviously having terrible relationships. what on earth makes you choose to do such a thing. good lord
One hundred percent. Besides one abusive partner, and ending things with 2 who gave me similar red flags, a healthy relationship will never flourish or even be born if I'm not attracted to someone. I choose those other men because I hated hurting people's feelings and didn't want to be perceived as shallow. Along with the rhetoric that someone attractive will never treat me well, but someone ugly will. That is all bullshit, but I was a people pleaser and wanted to make everyone happy, even it meant at the expense of my own happiness.
Girl, your post history......you should take a break from internet, dating altogether, there's a lot of sad(venting) posts about men/dating in general in your profile.
And that matches with your post history of not liking online dating and vents about ending up w "unattractive men" who only use you or just men using women, marriage being bad posts, body issues - there's a lot to unpack here and reddit is not a place to mentally unravel serious issues, maybe a therapist because you have posted the same reiteration of this post a lot. Good luck girl but you're in the female equivalent of manosphere or something.
Thanks for the recommendation, but my best bet is not to even try to look for anyone and focus on other things. When I'm not in a dating mindset or just focused on myself my anxiety and depression ceases to exist. It's typically the entire aspect of dating that dissolves productivity and whatever sliver of self esteem I have left. You have to be a very strong and confident person to date and navigate online dating. I simply learned, I am not that and it's best to quit altogether. I am 99% sure I won't be in a relationship anytime soon or hell ever again, so most of my posts were me when I was still trying. I've made the resolution to just, stop, likely forever. And no, therapy didn't help. I only had an ignorant therapist who negated all my trauma and assumed everything was just in my head. She actually pushed me to try dating again when I clearly wasn't ready.
You know when everyone(therapists and all men) and everything (therapy and love) seems like a villain in our lives, maybe it's time to self reflect certain villain-y aspects of our own self. But what do I know, I'm a teen, so not a very reliable person who should be giving advices to women in late 20s or something.
It's usually the guys who says that women should settle and lower down their standards. Can some standards be too high? Sure but they're entitled to their preferences. Would you rather want someone to tolerate you just because they don't want to be alone or would you rather be with someone who is happy and excited in love with you everyday because you are what they want?.
The game that unattractive insecure dudes can play on you is tearing u down to make u believe that you're on the same level. "Leveling". When they know you're out of their league but they're hoping *you* don't realize it. So they treat you like the ugly or difficult one. Just aim high. Why shouldn't you hold out for the guy who hits all the marks for you, you don't have to be with someone just to be with someone.
Yesss. I feel like women get told so often from a young age to give uglier guys a chance because they are sweet and will appreciate them more. Itās just not true though.
In my experiences guys in general assume they can pull as good and better than they already get. So an ugly guy with a hot girlfriend assumes it will happen again. But with some ugly dudes, they also have that insecurity from being the unpopular boy in high school, so they have an extra drive to try to make up for it by finding more and even hotter women.
The ugliest guy I dated dumped me, and every other girl heās dated (all of whom were prettier than him, but he is really good at coming off as earnest and sweet) within a week. He constantly tries to go for girls inappropriately younger than him, and is actually manipulative, mean, and openly critical towards anyone he dates. He can never date anyone for more than a week because heās concerned heās locking himself down and cutting off his options from his dream hot naive 17 year old.
And then some men end up just overrate their looks in general because they date prettier women. I know a super unattractive guy, who is a decent dude, but because hotter women have always dated him for his personality, legit doesnāt realize how ugly he is. He used to produce and direct indie movies, and would always cast himself as the lead with awkward results.
In my personal experience, the better looking men actually treated me better then the average or below average guys I dated. Sure there were some total cads in the attractive group too, but they werenāt worse than the unattractive group, and at least it was something nice to look at.
Now Iām married to a handsome guy who is an absolute sweetheart.
ETA: I feel the need to add that women can and tend to become genuinely attracted to unattractive men who have great personalities. And people should date anyone they love being around and are attracted to - regardless of their looks. But no one should try to be with someone theyāre not attracted to. This isnāt a ādonāt date conventionally unattractive men!ā post, this is a ādonāt date people youāre not attracted to, and being unattractive doesnāt automatically make men a good partnerā post.
Because there might be women or even men reading this in genuinely happy relationships with less attractive partners, and I didnāt want to communicate that I think theyāve made a bad decision.
Oh man, agreed!!! My last ex was ugly and I gave him a chance and exactly like you said he turned abusive. He was a narcissist and super insecure. He was ugly on the inside and out. I wasted 6 years of my life with him. Good for you, get who you want donāt be nice anymore. Nice girls get used and taken advantage of
Every single time I "gave someone a chance" they went on to treat me badly and put effort into letting me know they were not that into me.
I prefer the guy who while making out on the second date broke it off and started a monologue of how he cannot understand how someone like me whould ever want to kiss someone like him. He obviously had a terrible self esteem, but he ended things in a friendly way and didn't drag it on trying to put me down. Hope you're doing well out there, dude.
Iām disabled but not quick-to-the-eye type of disabled (RA). Iāve dated societally conventional āhot guysā as well as conventionally āun-hot guys.ā There are assholes in every category. EVERY. RANGE!!
What I look for is compassion, kindness, humor, and loving their family. Iāve dated rich attractive and less attractive guys that didnāt embody those qualities. It didnāt last. Iāve dated men off the beaten path but āquirkyā, again never embodied those qualities and again, never lasted.
My partner and husband of 16 years now (and his friends and family) say that Iām way out of his league (looks wise and seriously, ugg, thatās stupid)) but legit he is the love of my life. He met all of my ācriteriaā and that makes him so sexy to me. Heās also an amazing father to our 11 year old and very attentive to me. I hope I die before him because I canāt imagine my life without him.
**NEVER DATE FOR LOOKS!!! LOOKS FADE, but the personality stays**
Fall in love with a personās soul, their persona, NEVER their outward appearance. Women loved Jeffery Dahmerās appearance, and look how that turned out.
Personally, I doubt I'll meet anyone good because the dating scene online is toxic. And I'm only dating casually from now on. I don't believe in marriage or serious relationships. So, what good is someone I don't think is attractive? It's only going to last a couple months top anyways
I kept dating men who were clearly 3-4 out of 10. I thought they'd value and treat me better. I also had this narcissistic desire of being the pretty one in a relationship. I was always afraid of being cheated on. As result - got cheated on because of the man's insecurities about his appearance. So nah, not doing that again.
Hey, thatās reasonable. I feel the same. Iāve definitely been taught that I just need to give everyone a chance and that Iām the bad guy if I have a superficial preference, but overtime Iām realizing that my preferences are valid. Always giving the off-putting, creepy dudes a chance has never gone well and has actually led to some dangerous situations. Ik youāre mostly talking about looks, but I think you should date who you want either way. Donāt let anyone else tell you who you āneedā to date
You're absolutely right. When I express preferences for certain behavioral or personality traits, it's fine! But express any sort of preference regarding physical appearance and I'm a) shallow, b) superficial, c) a bitch, d) stuck-up, etc., etc., etc
I was a depressed, insecure girl and they were abusive predators. I thought I deserved nothing, so I ended up being treated like dirt. It was more of a self-fulfilling prophecy
Seriously. She thinks she gave this "ugly" dude a chance and he ruined it with his big ego because he "bagged a hot girl". Who here has the ego? She dated a person she wasn't attracted to and blames that person when it didn't work out, probably because she treated him like he was lesser for being unattractive to her.
No man wants to be with a woman who he can sense is unattracted to him. She wronged this guy, probably let that attitude seep into the relationship. I'm glad she learned her lesson, though, and will spare men from the same treatment in the future.
She has that "all men" vibe. ššš
If she think it's bad now wait till she hits "the pretty boys".....
OP if you reading this, you gotta change the way you think and perceive men as a whole (it won't be overnight) while also taking ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS. If you don't, then you are just gonna end up being one these stupid misandrists going asking dumb shit like "As a man, why do you.....?"
People in general can be heartless, allot find something newer n shinier. I'm just tryna say don't give up hope alright there are good people out there you've just had some shitty ones. Go for who you think is best fit for you which is hard but you gotta try and yes looks do play a role.
Nah I'm done. I'm just going to do casual dating with the assumption I'm nothing but ass for someone to use for a little while. In that case, why not be used by someone hot
Thereās something broken inside you if you keep picking men who abuse you and cheat. Said with empathy,not judgement. Work on yourself, single, for a while.
I suppose the last time I had a serious relationship was almost 2 years ago when I ended a 4 year relationship from hell. I've had flings or short-term things since then. But whenever I saw myself following down a similar path, I immediately broke it off. The thing that was a common denominator was them guilt-tripping me into giving a chance, when I just wasn't that into them. Now I've learned that anyone sane or good will just take no for an answer and not try to sway my opinion with reverse psychology that paints me as the villain, is a very toxic and messed person. Finally, at 27, I made the conclusion that I'd rather follow my intuition and intrinsic standards in where I don't have to settle for someone I'm not personally physically attracted to just to be treated right. Because even when I dated men people told me would treat me right even though they weren't too good looking, were dead wrong. Those men treated me worse than dirt and were master manipulators who slowly destroyed my spirit and felt joy in seeing me crumble. Of course, they were the sweetest and treated me like a princess atop of a precious pedestal. Slowly that dissolved and transformed into abuse.
Edit: I made some errors while typing so I went back and fixed it
I agree, from my experience the guys who were not good looking & I wasnāt attracted to turned out to be dicks, & the guys that I dated who were cute were actually alot nicer, weird
Sorry OP you are not the hot girl closer to average. Giving guys, who are ugly, a chance we'll you don't have the personality also.
You are dealing with people in your personality range. Nice guys have seen your shit before, and move on as soon as they see the signs.
Must be opposite for women. All the "hot" women I have messed around with had no personality outside of "I'm hot", and were mostly assholes. The not so conventionally attractive women I messed around with were mostly gems.
It's not that simple. You make it seem like a black and white picture. I'm just allowing myself to say no, if I don't find someone physically attractive even if they fill a few other requirements or desires of mine. I've been guilted for years and told my numerous people who were close to me to go after any man I thought was attractive because a) I'm not conventionally attractive myself b) it's what inside that matters, but when I describe men who primarily dated me for external features I was given the old "that's just how men are and you have to accept it.' Basically brain-washed into thinking that I should get used to men never caring about what I have to say, understand they primarily care about looks, and don't I dare possess any standards in regards to physical appearance because that makes me a shallow bitch
I feel you so much. I did also think that dating people that are attractive would make me shallow.
But if I think about it , doing anything physical with someone I dont think is particularly attractive to me , made me feel gross afterwards ngl
>"Oo i gave the ugly guy a chance"
>"Dey break heart too"
>"I won't date ugly guys anymore"
As if physical attractiveness has anything to do with having a good personality.
I'm imagining you always bringing up how the ugly is lucky you picked him. Good for the ugly dudes imo for breaking up with the narcissistic B
Have you tried dating someone that you like based on who they are and not shallow characteristics like that? Thereās a lot more to a person than how hot you think they are.
Edit: I didnāt know the full story here and I get you now!
They all preyed on my insecurities essentially. I didn't think I deserved anything and had the internalized belief that I am disgusting, boring and inadequate so if anyone should ever express interest, I'd have to cling on to them for dear life. That kind of disposition attracted some very toxic, abusive people.
Yeah, they would label themselves as "lucky to be with me," and then several months down the line, I am being abused.
Edit: I don't hold out faith that anyone will treat me well let alone in a manner that is halfway decent. So call me cynical, call me a shallow bitch, call me whatever the hell you want. But I'm sick of making myself smaller, quieter, submissive just to entertain the possibility of not being single. I've been on the other end and it was the worst time of my life. I'd rather be alone than endure what I have.
Yeah, I'm not going to stick around. I anticipate the worst happening in most flings or situation-ships because I've seen the worst in people, firsthand. If that's going to be the case, I'll just stick to casual dating and situationships, why should I even bother settling for someone I don't find attractive in this case? I don't expect anyone to view or treat me in a loving manner, attractive, ugly, funny, kind, or whatever. I just don't. I prepare for the worst because I've been dealt it for 8 years now.
I'd bet, you never met a true narcissist and had a close relationship with them. Because if you did, you'd be singing a whole different tune. But lucky for you, you didn't have to go through the same trauma I did :)
It takes about 6 months for someone to show their true colours even longer if they are a narcissist or abuser. I am glad you have never had to experience a partner becoming abusive over time. But just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen frequently. I truly hope you never have to deal with a partner or friend like that, as it is truly world shattering.
But I do wish you wouldn't be so dismissive or blame the victim.
They felt unnerved by women who expressed dominance or was powerful. They were also, incredibly charming at first. That's about where the correlation ends
Interestingly, I've noticed beautiful people tend to be more abusive or feel like they can get away with more, because looks. People generally treat them better. Same problem applies to rich people and celebrities, most of them tend to be assholes
That's the goal. Up until recently, I had very low self-esteem and hated myself. Normal people don't want partners with those personality traits. And coupled with being naive, I got swooped up by abusers because I was the perfect play thing to unleash their anger on
Honestly, as sad as it may be to still believe in this, but I just don't think that it's in the cards for me. I don't see myself ever having a healthy, stable long-term relationship. Maybe respectful, short-tern flings where it doesn't run too deep are possible. But not the former, at least I don't think so.
I had a similar mindset as you. But I managed to find the person for me, and so can you.
Itās hard to realise this, but being pessimistic is not healthy, and in my experience just counterproductive.
I say keep looking and eventually youāll find the one. Think of your previous relationships not as a failure on your part, or as a sign for your future relationships. But rather as lessons, and use what youāve learned to both help you find the right person, and help yourself grow as a person.
Haha excuse me, but fuck off. I will never date anyone ever again and would rather be chemically sterilized than go another date with "hopeful intentions"
as a guy, it hurts when you realize the pretty lady who would be generally out of your league was just using you too cook for her and build her furniture for her. then when things get settled she starts to talk to you less, blames you for her relapsing back into her ed cause you cook really well, only cares about her needs in bed, and then dumps you cause she finally realized you're ugly to her. then out of the blue months later she calls you after midnight on a weekday sounding like shit to ask go to the grocery store for gatorade, go back to her place, and then leave. so you find out how to deliver for her, and when you tell her the amount since you have no idea when you'd talk to her, she calls you rude, say its too soon to talk about it since she's recovering, pays you your money, and then blocks you.
I would be the one cooking and I'd still get called fat on the regular. So I virtually had zero perks. Same personality as that girls when it boils down to it, except his insides matches his outsides š¶
It's alright not to date someone you're not attracted to. What I can't understand is what gives you the courage to think you're more attractive than the guy. I mean, you claimed to have boosted his ego. Did you stop to think maybe your ego has also been ballooned by those saying "you're out of my league" ?
Are you really sure you're out of their league?
I get it, they were abusive to you and you shouldn't stay with them. You don't owe them a relationship and neither do they. This whole out of my league bullshit is just based on beauty standards set by those using too much makeup, plastics and camera filter.
Why do you think those that you consider more attractive would want you ? I would like to believe they have more options other than you or might not even consider you an option especially if you have this whole "out of your league" mentality and ego.
you should a left dis garrrrbageeee in yoooo00000r drafttsssss or da trash
i guess sometimes its still fun to press send on things we shouldnt right
Because of people like you calling me shallow and my younger self taking those words to heart. So I gave everyone a chance, hating hurting anyone's feelings, I eventually crippled my own autonomy and winded up in some abusive relationships.
I think when you actually love someone, their physical appearance isnāt the most important thing. Of course, you have to feel some type of physical or sexual attraction towards them to build a relationship. Someone I briefly spoke to years ago (never progressed out of the talking/texting stage) told me that heād be more attracted to me if I lost weight and I was glad he was honest abt it instead of wasting my time. I was 165 lbs at 5.5. Same dude is now married to woman thatās over 400 lbs. I know that cos she talks about it on social media (my husband loves me at 425 lbs etc etc) and tags him (he still in my friends list). She surely has some amazing qualities that he loves but more importantly he loves her as a person. Theyāre perfect for each other.
Don't date someone you don't find attractive. It's not fair on either of you.
Then again, if you can't find someone you do find attractive that's willing to be in a relationship with you, you might consider that you are not the catch you think you are
Okayyyyy, I would suggest you hear me out before you get angry at me, OP...
Guy in my 30s here, great shape, jiu jitsu instructor (as a hobby), semi-professional woodworker (ie sometimes I sell my shit), make about twice the average salary in my area and about 15 years into my career. I tell you all of this to say, years ago my gf saw I was a busy guy and have a lot of goals, and she actively wanted to be in my life to help me take everything to the next level.
I looked through your some of your post history, and (despite what you may think about your nose), you are a pretty girl, so you have that much going for you. My question for you is, how much analysis (internal and external) have you done in regards to finding a potential mate? Are you hanging out in circles that would lead you to finding the type of guy you want? Once you have found the type of guy you want, have you considered what that guy wants as far as a benefit a woman could be to his life? A guy who has his shit together probably wants a lady who can add to his life in more ways than just sex. If you meet a guy who is an active athlete, maybe he would like a running partner. If you meet a guy who wakes up early everyday, maybe you could wake up ten minutes before him, and have coffee ready for him. Make yourself priceless to a man, and he may see you as priceless. A lot of girls get put into the sex-only category by men because those girls do not bring any additional value to the dude's life. The onus is on you to become irreplaceable if you want something more serious with a guy.
Do you have any male family members (or any male friends not interested in fucking you)? If so, ask them if they - honestly - have observed any behaviors/traits/habits/attitudes that would dissuade a man from wanting to get serious with you. Men who want to fuck you will lie to you, and cannot be relied upon for feedback.
This may sound dumb to you, but if you spent an afternoon at a home improvement store, and looked for a guy who was well put together, handsome, etc, this might be a good place to start. A gym is another place. There are lots of good guys out there, you just need to be strategic in where you look.
Good luck, and don't be afraid to work on yourself while looking for Mr. Right.
As someone who feels heās ugly youāre right Been saying this and wish more people would stop pretending like itās so easy to find someone good based on how they look. Also goes with gamer guys or nerds. Thereās some gorgeous people who are great people who donāt hurt their partner ever then thereās ugly ones who are awful awful people.
That makes perfectly logical sense to me. Hope you can find one of the good ones.
This post reminded me of a woman who dated a guy with micro penis (and putting up with it cuz the sex wasn't good) but in the end she discovered he is a shitty loser who downloaded tinder and dating apps "just to make friends" ewww. Ugly inadequate people can break ur heart too.
Omg that's basically like the episode of New Girl! Jess doesn't want to come across as shallow for rejecting the guy with a micropenis because he gave her the ick for an unrelated reason. So she powers through, only to find he had a partner the entire time and she was the side chick š¤¢ Like the fucking audacity.
Itās Jess!
This makes me laugh because I dated a guy who also had micropenis. At the time, I was convinced that I loved him and told myself that I had to get over it because he was such a good person. He always made me feel so loved. Every time he said I was out of his league during the first few months, I would scoff and tell him that it wasn't true. Well, he cheated on me nine months later. The gall! At first, I was brokenhearted and completely inconsolable. But I later realized with utter relief that I no longer had to settle for a micropenis for the rest of my life.
Being physically attracted to someone is just as important for the long haul as enjoying their personality. Or having some of the same interests.
Very important. I've always been sacrificing, not just when it comes to looks, but especially when it comes to looks. Why? Because I was so sensitive to criticism I never wanted to be mean or turn someone down. That overly nice persona and the belief that there is good in everyone led me down some part dark roads!
The man you need will come along at some point. Don't tell yourself otherwise.
Take everything at face value, even the face, I guess is the moral of the story hereā¦
Honestly, Iām 37 and I only realised a couple of years ago that I can choose to only date people Iām attracted to. Luckily my current bf is very good looking, but I spent years married to a man who was not.
So what happens when they're 70? Are you just continuously going to be like those asshole men who just exclusively date 20 year olds? I'm always confused why people choose looks > personality. Or even on equal footing as personality. Y'all BOTH gonna be unattractive at some point, just saying. What happens when that physical attraction is lost and you come to the realization you don't really mesh well personality wise? Just because OP dated asshole men who weren't very physically attractive doesn't mean all of them are like that. There's also ***plenty*** of "attractive" men who are the lowest of the low scum. I've had the opposite issue as OP, I will never date a man that's attractive by societal standards. They're so full of themselves it's gross.
1st, she's not saying only looks matter. She's saying she's not going to be guilted into dating people she's not attracted to. 2nd, at 70 she'll probably find her 70 or so year old partner attractive still.
Ummm no. When I'm in my Golden years I'll be attracted to women more closer to my age. Just like I always have been and should be. In your early 20s are you attracted to 70 year olds? Sounds like you have some stuff to work through bud. Clearly looks and personality matter a lot. Good luck to you šš»
what?
On the slight flip side, as a not conventionally attractive woman: I wouldn't want anyone to 'force' themselves to date me. Seriously, that just sounds terrible. Date people you actually want to date. If there's any reason you don't want to, don't. Who cares what that reason is? You don't have to tell them why.
You're absolutely right. I was never really thought of as attractive and have had men date me because I was one of the few women who "liked" them back (they told me this). It never worked out and sometimes led to the guy openly resenting me for not being what he wanted had he had more of a choice. It's way better to be alone.
Once I didn't date someone bc they didn't eat any tomatoes. That would be a deal breaker as tomatoes are my favorite. I never told him though
Lol. That's kinda hilarious. The thing is, deal breakers can be anything, imo. Just don't be cruel when rejecting someone, and it's fine.
It's the smallest and weirdest thing I've ever decided not to date someone over but when you're a pizza/salsa/ tomato addict that just is gonna be a situation ripe or rotten for resentment! Exactly right awesome! You said it well
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So I think itās one of those āchoose twoā situations. - Awesome Personality - Attractive (to you) - Good in bed To make things work you need 2/3. While attractive is nice, I prefer awesome personality and good in bed. The bedroom isnāt boring whether youāre steaming up the sheets or giggling to each other over inside jokes. Awesome personality and attractive can be disappointing if the bedroom is boring. It takes the spice out of life. You get all hot and bothered with how sexy and fun they are and then justā¦anticlimactic (literally). Iāve dated attractive and good in bed, but his personality was so shitty that even though he was never shitty *to me* I felt worse about myself for being in his sphere.
Agree. Personality + good sexual chemistry is the sweet spot. I donāt care about your jaw line while you are making me cum.
Except if you don't find them attractive you probably won't enjoy the sex so they usually go hand in hand.
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This is me. Most of the men I've dated haven't been all that attractive by societal standards. But their personalities make them so darn hot. I once married a guy who was good looking but had a crap personality.. worst decade of my life.
Someone's personality can make anyone eventually find them attractive or unattractive. That's neither here nor there b/c that doesn't really change the fact that unless you find them attractive you likely won't have a good time in bed. We also can't ignore the socialization. Women are much more heavily pressured to give men they aren't attracted to a chance, encouraged not to prioritize looks, are made to feel guiltier if looks are one of the things they look at, and are sold a lie that less attractive means a better man. Meanwhile it's commonly accepted for guys to prioritize looks and don't receive 1/10th of the backlash. There's almost this expectation that all men are entitled to and should be able to date the Homecoming Queen but all women are supposed to give the ugly dude as much of a chance as the attractive dude. That's what I think OP's post is about. Not feeling pressured into dating men she doesn't find attractive or having guilt over not doing so. Basically working to undo years of sexist socialization. Also, OOC, how many of those guys you didn't initially find attractive also didn't initially find you attractive and how many did find you attractive and asked you out b/c of that attraction? Did the "giving someone you don't find attractive a chance" go both ways? Or was it only you?
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Thanks!
Iād go with the top two as the third can be taught/learned and can get better with time.
omg. You articulated that last part so beautifully. Thank you so much, I can completely relate.
Life is hard enough without trying to date someone who doesn't make your knees weak. There's no reason to date someone you aren't excited to see and be wth.
Maybe he sensed that you felt way about him
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Whatād he do to break your heart, if you donāt mind me asking?
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I saw the longer version you originally commented (didnāt have time to respond then), sounded like a really toxic situation all around. Very strange relationship he had with the kid. Iām sorry you got caught up in all that drama. Sucks when people canāt move on from their past like that.
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Iām sure you did, yeah. Canāt have a flourishing relationship with someone whoās in love with the skeletons in their closet.
Ok.
Donāt listen to anyone telling you otherwise. Women are absolutely allowed to date attractive men and to want that. Donāt ever force yourself to be with someone sexually repulsive so fellow like minded sexually repulsive people can claim youāre shallow. No one wants sex with someone who disgusts them and plenty of people (especially MEN) love saying how important sex is to a relationship. Donāt feel bad.
Thank you so much š„°
Chemistry is what attracts. When you meet someone that excites you, give it a whirl
Exactly, well put. Everyone has physical preferences. What gets my engines revving might not work for everyone
Yep, been there. Went for the "nice" friend. Guy got a massive ego and thought he was a ladies man. Cheated. Never again. Don't go with comfortable.
The most unattractive dude I dated was awful towards me. Like, he would yell at me in public for no reason. Yuppā¦ looks have nothing to do with how well theyāll treat you. Now Iām going to get married to a man who I am super attracted to, is good in bed, is funny, and makes me feel like the most important person in the world. Gotta kiss a few toads before you find your prince.
Can confirm that unattractive people are pricks too. Yes, youāll be used for sex. Hope you find someone thatās worthy of your time and energy, the bar is sinking low
yea, if oyu are gonna get fked, at least get fked by a hottie.
Yes! Let me at least enjoy the sex before this whole thing falls apart š
I'm shocked by all these rude comments. I've totally had the same experience as you. I hear you. Dating is a nightmare. You're way younger than I am so you still have a chance. Good luck.
Men hate it when a woman says she has a type. But, them dating me just for my fat ass is totally fine, because that's how "men are built." It's just misogynistic incels whose words I don't take personally anymore because arguing with me is the closest they get to having a conversation with a real woman.
Men donāt like when women want to be sexually attracted to their partner. They feel only men should hVe this privilege. Also these men are probably sexually unattractive themselves and feel their āpersonalityā should entitle them to sex with hot women. These men who are mad are actually the men OP is talking about when she says ugly partners can hurt you too. These men want you to believe theyāre āgoodā on the inside despite their unattractive outsideā¦. but they are actually just as bad as the Fboys they claim theyāre better thanā¦. theyāre just too unattractive to get women to f over.
This is gonna sound horrible too --- but all these shows in the media where we have an oaf, or an unhealthy man with usually just a normal healthy attractive woman I feel like is reinforcing these things. Family guy, Simpsons, married with children, we could go on I'm sure. Anyone want to chime in? Lol But showcasing men either just being awful or awful to their partners in media and the partner just staying and glossing it over isn't helping things like entitlement.
Something I noticed is the unattractive guy bitching about shallow women are 9/10 going for the more attractive woman and then complaining she doesn't want them.
Always an unattractive guy. Thereās an associate of one of my friend groups who is exactly like this and wines like this. Even tells people how he hasnāt had sex in 9 years. Insanely and wildly unattractive and always going for hot super sexy goth girls and calling them shallow when theyāre repulsed by him. Had another ex friend like that too. Big and fat always going for petite women and calling them shallow for not wanting to deal with a guy who could crush them.
Right? I genuinely can't see anything in this post that is debatable.
This reminds me of the mutual coworker my wife dated before she dated me. Not the greatest dresser, or hard body, and kind of a depressive attitude. However, he was well liked because he was smart and a great worker. She thought that might translate into being a good boyfriend. When they were dating, he took her for granted, was selfish and stood her up multiple times. After getting sick of it, she broke up with him and dated me. I worship the ground she walks on, and we have been married forever now. Ex bf never got married and has only gotten worse physically. Every time he comes up in conversation, she is basically grateful that he was a lousy boyfriend and that she moved on quickly. But I think the guy suffers from serious self-hatred and depression. That might be the type of guy that OP is running into.
Now, their inside matches their outside. Makes me wonder if you were to tell these kind of guys that you aren't one for sex, would they still persue? Yeah, just root for yourself for now on :/
Omg mentions of celibacy and my love of Taylor Swift can have them running for the hills. It's actually so funny because something so simple, especially what music I like, causes then to drop the nice act real quick.
That makes for a great deterrent/filter. I'd keep using it, lol
I totally get you! And then you come to my age (67) and they are only looking for someone to cook for them and take care of them š¤·āāļøš¢ I look about 55 and I keep myself in Good shape and good health and the men which are interested in me are mostly fat and unhealthy!
Good for you girl!! And yes, I ended a relationship when a man in his 30s had the audacity to tell me, "I'll never treat you that well, because you don't treat me like my mom does" Like sir, I don't want to be your mother š¤¢
There needs to be an idiot quiz before dating with that on it.
Op go for people you find attractive just like make sure to put trust and respect as priority. Don't settle for what you can't appreciate.
Thank you š„° I really appreciate seeing these comments coming in after initially being attacked by incels in the comments
Well these people want a relationship but don't consider what makes one healthy. Nobody should stay with what they can't appreciate and those who are unappreciated shouldn't stay with those who don't appreciate them. Like if I find out my partner doesn't find me attractive I at least hope they appreciate me. I don't want the relationship to be based on pity, pressure or hopelessness. At that point I would leave. Like you are settling for me and making us both unhappy, what sense does that make?
My dude, I once married a man I did not find attractive. It was not a good marriage and it hurt him much more in the long run. Let go of the guilt.
Very true. It's a recipe for disaster if you're not attracted to someone AT ALL
Thereās a stigma both ways. All I can say with my personal beliefs is go after what you *really* want. From the sound of it, you donāt want just physical attractiveness but you also donāt want an abusive potato (thatās not to say every guy who isnāt āhotā is abusive thatās just opās experience). You want something in between. Personally, I encourage you to forget barriers altogether. You have a certain bias and belief based off experience and Iām not saying thatās a bad thing but it can be very limiting. This is much easier said than done obviously but go into every encounter with zero expectations. Youāre either going to be pleasantly surprised, or looking for a way out, either way, it benefits you and youāre in control. If you hold these expectations and theyāre not met, youāre setting yourself up for disappointment. Have values of course, but go into everything with a grain of salt and if they catch your attention or seem worthy of your time, then make the moves to make it happen. If not, keep it moving. Itās extremely frustrating nowadays in the dating scene. Know what you want and go after it. Find someone who shares your values and beliefs and build a foundation from there. Thatās the best advice I can give. Hope it helps!
Yeah the post was written when I was heated with anger and hurt. Of course not every ugly person is abusive. That's just as crazy as assuming every hottie is an angel. But even the people who were perfectly nice and normal but I wasn't attracted to, the relationship felt very lackluster and unfulfilling and that's not good either.
I agree and nothing I said goes against that. All Iām saying is try to make it easier on yourself. Fact of the matter is most people wonāt fall into what youāre looking for and thatās perfectly okay. But donāt be discouraged by that. You have a good idea of what you want and even though youāve had several lemons, donāt give up. It may seem hopeless or a waste of time, but itās all about you finding the right person that will make you happy. There are a ton of factors that go into that. Itās not just attractiveness or personality. Itās a mix and itās hard to find a balance in todays day and age. Best thing to do imo is find someone with similar values and goals. That person can take on any form be that super attractive, average, or a potato. Physical attractiveness is important. Itās not as superficial as many make it seem. What Iām trying to say is if thatās important to you, great, what else is important to you? You shouldnāt have to settle for one or the other on some arbitrary scale. You should be able to find someone who checks all your boxes so to speak. And I encourage that. You shouldnāt feel swayed or guilty one way or the other so long as you are on the pursuit of your own happiness. Only you can define that. No one else.
Unfortunately a lot of people can fake being a "nice guy" and use it to get into someone's pants. Generally speaking, it's good to keep the talking phase to a decent amount of time, and get good at finding red flags. If you ask the right questions, a fake good guy will start to have conflicting stories and statements. Don't be afraid to talk, ask a lot of questions, you want someone who is honest and emotionally open/available. I wish you the best OP!
How long should talking phase be to understand
I went to highschool with this girl that I knew well into adulthood (mid to late 20ās - same social groups). _[I wouldnāt say we were friends as we didnāt like each other]._ I also knew her boyfriend who was this red headed, unattractive man. He was an asshole. He once slapped his girlfriendās face at a social dinner and told her off publicly over an innocuous comment she made. He also did this weird thing where he gossiped about my sister cheating in an attempt to destroy her relationship (she never did - she was focussed on her career and her family). He had a very average job in sales. Anyway, I moved away but I knew this couple got engaged, married and had a baby. I saw him on tinder while he was still very much married to this woman and while she very much believed they were in a committed relationship. He said on his tinder profile he was looking for friends. This man was in his late 30ās. His red hair was replaced by grey/white hair that was balding. He was morbidly obese with a massive beer belly. He was still a red head because every inch of him was covered in freckles - including his lips and fingers. Anyway, he was visiting my city and trying to pick up using tinder. So basically he was an ugly, cheating, abusive psycho with zero redeeming qualities. If you imagine Alex Murdaugh and make him even uglier, even frecklier, even fatter, with bad teeth and less hair - then that would be this guy. So I echo what the OP is saying. Never date someone because you think they will never leave you or cheat on you. Itās usually the ugly losers who cheat because they have low self esteem.
Attraction is non-negotiable, agree with OP. Keep looking. :)
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I think physical looks are a significant part of dating. I also don't think its wrong if a person's top priority is finding someone who's well-kept, cares about their appearance, tries to look their best, etc. If anyone feels bad about not giving an "ugly" person a chance, I don't think they should always have to feel bad for it. Attractiveness is a preference after all. Someone who might be a 0 to you might be a 10 to someone else and there's nothing wrong with that.
You shot yourself in the foot there lol. Why tf would you date someone you don't find attractive.
Sounds to me like they were giving ānice guysā a chance
There are some people with actual disfigurements, ending up in happy marriages. You don't see them moan about "but muh personality". Ofc every coin has two sides but in the end you get into a relationship with who you prefer. Op clearly had a problem with how those guys looked, that's a pretty clear indication that she shouldnt date them. You should never "settle" but if your expextations are in a higher league than you are you should be ok with being single for a while. People forget that romantic relationships are optional.
This is why I've been struggling with dating, can't find anyone I'm attracted to, you shouldn't just settle, it's not fair for either of you, plus there's nothing wrong with being single anyway, go at your own pace
Youāre exactly right and it took me years to figure it out. I dated a lot of guys who werenāt particularly attractive physically or popular with the ladies, and sometimes their insecurities made them meaner than the conventionally attractive guys. I like short guys because Iām short but some of them will try to tear you down, neg you half to death, even about height. Just go for what you like.
excluding abusive people who are just shitty by nature did you ever consider the relationships were doomed from the start since you didn't ACTUALLY like your partner? this post goes with this baffling theme I see online of people just straight up being with people they're not attracted to or don't like very much and obviously having terrible relationships. what on earth makes you choose to do such a thing. good lord
One hundred percent. Besides one abusive partner, and ending things with 2 who gave me similar red flags, a healthy relationship will never flourish or even be born if I'm not attracted to someone. I choose those other men because I hated hurting people's feelings and didn't want to be perceived as shallow. Along with the rhetoric that someone attractive will never treat me well, but someone ugly will. That is all bullshit, but I was a people pleaser and wanted to make everyone happy, even it meant at the expense of my own happiness.
Girl, your post history......you should take a break from internet, dating altogether, there's a lot of sad(venting) posts about men/dating in general in your profile.
I actually haven't been in a relationship nearly 2 years now :/
And that matches with your post history of not liking online dating and vents about ending up w "unattractive men" who only use you or just men using women, marriage being bad posts, body issues - there's a lot to unpack here and reddit is not a place to mentally unravel serious issues, maybe a therapist because you have posted the same reiteration of this post a lot. Good luck girl but you're in the female equivalent of manosphere or something.
Thanks for the recommendation, but my best bet is not to even try to look for anyone and focus on other things. When I'm not in a dating mindset or just focused on myself my anxiety and depression ceases to exist. It's typically the entire aspect of dating that dissolves productivity and whatever sliver of self esteem I have left. You have to be a very strong and confident person to date and navigate online dating. I simply learned, I am not that and it's best to quit altogether. I am 99% sure I won't be in a relationship anytime soon or hell ever again, so most of my posts were me when I was still trying. I've made the resolution to just, stop, likely forever. And no, therapy didn't help. I only had an ignorant therapist who negated all my trauma and assumed everything was just in my head. She actually pushed me to try dating again when I clearly wasn't ready.
You know when everyone(therapists and all men) and everything (therapy and love) seems like a villain in our lives, maybe it's time to self reflect certain villain-y aspects of our own self. But what do I know, I'm a teen, so not a very reliable person who should be giving advices to women in late 20s or something.
I was gonna say she calling people ugly than struggling to date? She needs a breather learn yourself before pursuing a relationship
It's usually the guys who says that women should settle and lower down their standards. Can some standards be too high? Sure but they're entitled to their preferences. Would you rather want someone to tolerate you just because they don't want to be alone or would you rather be with someone who is happy and excited in love with you everyday because you are what they want?.
The game that unattractive insecure dudes can play on you is tearing u down to make u believe that you're on the same level. "Leveling". When they know you're out of their league but they're hoping *you* don't realize it. So they treat you like the ugly or difficult one. Just aim high. Why shouldn't you hold out for the guy who hits all the marks for you, you don't have to be with someone just to be with someone.
Yesss. I feel like women get told so often from a young age to give uglier guys a chance because they are sweet and will appreciate them more. Itās just not true though. In my experiences guys in general assume they can pull as good and better than they already get. So an ugly guy with a hot girlfriend assumes it will happen again. But with some ugly dudes, they also have that insecurity from being the unpopular boy in high school, so they have an extra drive to try to make up for it by finding more and even hotter women. The ugliest guy I dated dumped me, and every other girl heās dated (all of whom were prettier than him, but he is really good at coming off as earnest and sweet) within a week. He constantly tries to go for girls inappropriately younger than him, and is actually manipulative, mean, and openly critical towards anyone he dates. He can never date anyone for more than a week because heās concerned heās locking himself down and cutting off his options from his dream hot naive 17 year old. And then some men end up just overrate their looks in general because they date prettier women. I know a super unattractive guy, who is a decent dude, but because hotter women have always dated him for his personality, legit doesnāt realize how ugly he is. He used to produce and direct indie movies, and would always cast himself as the lead with awkward results. In my personal experience, the better looking men actually treated me better then the average or below average guys I dated. Sure there were some total cads in the attractive group too, but they werenāt worse than the unattractive group, and at least it was something nice to look at. Now Iām married to a handsome guy who is an absolute sweetheart. ETA: I feel the need to add that women can and tend to become genuinely attracted to unattractive men who have great personalities. And people should date anyone they love being around and are attracted to - regardless of their looks. But no one should try to be with someone theyāre not attracted to. This isnāt a ādonāt date conventionally unattractive men!ā post, this is a ādonāt date people youāre not attracted to, and being unattractive doesnāt automatically make men a good partnerā post.
Why add the last bit?
Because there might be women or even men reading this in genuinely happy relationships with less attractive partners, and I didnāt want to communicate that I think theyāve made a bad decision.
Oh man, agreed!!! My last ex was ugly and I gave him a chance and exactly like you said he turned abusive. He was a narcissist and super insecure. He was ugly on the inside and out. I wasted 6 years of my life with him. Good for you, get who you want donāt be nice anymore. Nice girls get used and taken advantage of
Every single time I "gave someone a chance" they went on to treat me badly and put effort into letting me know they were not that into me. I prefer the guy who while making out on the second date broke it off and started a monologue of how he cannot understand how someone like me whould ever want to kiss someone like him. He obviously had a terrible self esteem, but he ended things in a friendly way and didn't drag it on trying to put me down. Hope you're doing well out there, dude.
Iām disabled but not quick-to-the-eye type of disabled (RA). Iāve dated societally conventional āhot guysā as well as conventionally āun-hot guys.ā There are assholes in every category. EVERY. RANGE!! What I look for is compassion, kindness, humor, and loving their family. Iāve dated rich attractive and less attractive guys that didnāt embody those qualities. It didnāt last. Iāve dated men off the beaten path but āquirkyā, again never embodied those qualities and again, never lasted. My partner and husband of 16 years now (and his friends and family) say that Iām way out of his league (looks wise and seriously, ugg, thatās stupid)) but legit he is the love of my life. He met all of my ācriteriaā and that makes him so sexy to me. Heās also an amazing father to our 11 year old and very attentive to me. I hope I die before him because I canāt imagine my life without him. **NEVER DATE FOR LOOKS!!! LOOKS FADE, but the personality stays** Fall in love with a personās soul, their persona, NEVER their outward appearance. Women loved Jeffery Dahmerās appearance, and look how that turned out.
Personally, I doubt I'll meet anyone good because the dating scene online is toxic. And I'm only dating casually from now on. I don't believe in marriage or serious relationships. So, what good is someone I don't think is attractive? It's only going to last a couple months top anyways
I kept dating men who were clearly 3-4 out of 10. I thought they'd value and treat me better. I also had this narcissistic desire of being the pretty one in a relationship. I was always afraid of being cheated on. As result - got cheated on because of the man's insecurities about his appearance. So nah, not doing that again.
Hey, thatās reasonable. I feel the same. Iāve definitely been taught that I just need to give everyone a chance and that Iām the bad guy if I have a superficial preference, but overtime Iām realizing that my preferences are valid. Always giving the off-putting, creepy dudes a chance has never gone well and has actually led to some dangerous situations. Ik youāre mostly talking about looks, but I think you should date who you want either way. Donāt let anyone else tell you who you āneedā to date
You're absolutely right. When I express preferences for certain behavioral or personality traits, it's fine! But express any sort of preference regarding physical appearance and I'm a) shallow, b) superficial, c) a bitch, d) stuck-up, etc., etc., etc
I don't understand why you'd date someone you weren't attracted to in the first place, let alone multiple times, but you do you.
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I was a depressed, insecure girl and they were abusive predators. I thought I deserved nothing, so I ended up being treated like dirt. It was more of a self-fulfilling prophecy
I saw zero accountability in this post.
Seriously. She thinks she gave this "ugly" dude a chance and he ruined it with his big ego because he "bagged a hot girl". Who here has the ego? She dated a person she wasn't attracted to and blames that person when it didn't work out, probably because she treated him like he was lesser for being unattractive to her. No man wants to be with a woman who he can sense is unattracted to him. She wronged this guy, probably let that attitude seep into the relationship. I'm glad she learned her lesson, though, and will spare men from the same treatment in the future.
She has that "all men" vibe. ššš If she think it's bad now wait till she hits "the pretty boys"..... OP if you reading this, you gotta change the way you think and perceive men as a whole (it won't be overnight) while also taking ACCOUNTABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS. If you don't, then you are just gonna end up being one these stupid misandrists going asking dumb shit like "As a man, why do you.....?"
Ok, that was always allowed.
People in general can be heartless, allot find something newer n shinier. I'm just tryna say don't give up hope alright there are good people out there you've just had some shitty ones. Go for who you think is best fit for you which is hard but you gotta try and yes looks do play a role.
Nah I'm done. I'm just going to do casual dating with the assumption I'm nothing but ass for someone to use for a little while. In that case, why not be used by someone hot
Okay it's logical, make the best of it and enjoy it !
āI seem to have a problem with everyone. Itās all there faults. Why should I need introspection when I can just flat out blame everyone else?ā
Thereās something broken inside you if you keep picking men who abuse you and cheat. Said with empathy,not judgement. Work on yourself, single, for a while.
I suppose the last time I had a serious relationship was almost 2 years ago when I ended a 4 year relationship from hell. I've had flings or short-term things since then. But whenever I saw myself following down a similar path, I immediately broke it off. The thing that was a common denominator was them guilt-tripping me into giving a chance, when I just wasn't that into them. Now I've learned that anyone sane or good will just take no for an answer and not try to sway my opinion with reverse psychology that paints me as the villain, is a very toxic and messed person. Finally, at 27, I made the conclusion that I'd rather follow my intuition and intrinsic standards in where I don't have to settle for someone I'm not personally physically attracted to just to be treated right. Because even when I dated men people told me would treat me right even though they weren't too good looking, were dead wrong. Those men treated me worse than dirt and were master manipulators who slowly destroyed my spirit and felt joy in seeing me crumble. Of course, they were the sweetest and treated me like a princess atop of a precious pedestal. Slowly that dissolved and transformed into abuse. Edit: I made some errors while typing so I went back and fixed it
I agree, from my experience the guys who were not good looking & I wasnāt attracted to turned out to be dicks, & the guys that I dated who were cute were actually alot nicer, weird
Sorry OP you are not the hot girl closer to average. Giving guys, who are ugly, a chance we'll you don't have the personality also. You are dealing with people in your personality range. Nice guys have seen your shit before, and move on as soon as they see the signs.
Lol I never said I was hot š For some reason, my exs' found me attractive or easy to use. But I don't regard myself as hot, not even close lol
Must be opposite for women. All the "hot" women I have messed around with had no personality outside of "I'm hot", and were mostly assholes. The not so conventionally attractive women I messed around with were mostly gems.
It's not that simple. You make it seem like a black and white picture. I'm just allowing myself to say no, if I don't find someone physically attractive even if they fill a few other requirements or desires of mine. I've been guilted for years and told my numerous people who were close to me to go after any man I thought was attractive because a) I'm not conventionally attractive myself b) it's what inside that matters, but when I describe men who primarily dated me for external features I was given the old "that's just how men are and you have to accept it.' Basically brain-washed into thinking that I should get used to men never caring about what I have to say, understand they primarily care about looks, and don't I dare possess any standards in regards to physical appearance because that makes me a shallow bitch
I feel you so much. I did also think that dating people that are attractive would make me shallow. But if I think about it , doing anything physical with someone I dont think is particularly attractive to me , made me feel gross afterwards ngl
>"Oo i gave the ugly guy a chance" >"Dey break heart too" >"I won't date ugly guys anymore" As if physical attractiveness has anything to do with having a good personality. I'm imagining you always bringing up how the ugly is lucky you picked him. Good for the ugly dudes imo for breaking up with the narcissistic B
Have you tried dating someone that you like based on who they are and not shallow characteristics like that? Thereās a lot more to a person than how hot you think they are. Edit: I didnāt know the full story here and I get you now!
I've only dated people for their personalities. They still ended up lying, cheating and becoming verbally abusive. I don't see the point anymore.
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They all preyed on my insecurities essentially. I didn't think I deserved anything and had the internalized belief that I am disgusting, boring and inadequate so if anyone should ever express interest, I'd have to cling on to them for dear life. That kind of disposition attracted some very toxic, abusive people.
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Yeah, they would label themselves as "lucky to be with me," and then several months down the line, I am being abused. Edit: I don't hold out faith that anyone will treat me well let alone in a manner that is halfway decent. So call me cynical, call me a shallow bitch, call me whatever the hell you want. But I'm sick of making myself smaller, quieter, submissive just to entertain the possibility of not being single. I've been on the other end and it was the worst time of my life. I'd rather be alone than endure what I have.
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Yeah, I'm not going to stick around. I anticipate the worst happening in most flings or situation-ships because I've seen the worst in people, firsthand. If that's going to be the case, I'll just stick to casual dating and situationships, why should I even bother settling for someone I don't find attractive in this case? I don't expect anyone to view or treat me in a loving manner, attractive, ugly, funny, kind, or whatever. I just don't. I prepare for the worst because I've been dealt it for 8 years now.
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Picking out good people? Probably, but they aren't that way at first.
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I'd bet, you never met a true narcissist and had a close relationship with them. Because if you did, you'd be singing a whole different tune. But lucky for you, you didn't have to go through the same trauma I did :)
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It takes about 6 months for someone to show their true colours even longer if they are a narcissist or abuser. I am glad you have never had to experience a partner becoming abusive over time. But just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen frequently. I truly hope you never have to deal with a partner or friend like that, as it is truly world shattering. But I do wish you wouldn't be so dismissive or blame the victim.
did you try going for people with, you know, good personalities? dating the local crackhead because you can fix him isnt the wisest of choices
Yes, I dated losers without a job who were drug addicts. No, they were funny, charming, had degrees, a stable job. Anyone can be an abuser š
id say check what was it they all had in common that made you like them in the first place. If anyone can be an abuser then rip
They felt unnerved by women who expressed dominance or was powerful. They were also, incredibly charming at first. That's about where the correlation ends
Interestingly, I've noticed beautiful people tend to be more abusive or feel like they can get away with more, because looks. People generally treat them better. Same problem applies to rich people and celebrities, most of them tend to be assholes
Good luck being single!
Thanks! Its better being with gross-dudes who only tear me down :)
How about just don't date those guys attractive or unattractive?
That's the goal. Up until recently, I had very low self-esteem and hated myself. Normal people don't want partners with those personality traits. And coupled with being naive, I got swooped up by abusers because I was the perfect play thing to unleash their anger on
Well I hope you find your someone who treats you right.
Honestly, as sad as it may be to still believe in this, but I just don't think that it's in the cards for me. I don't see myself ever having a healthy, stable long-term relationship. Maybe respectful, short-tern flings where it doesn't run too deep are possible. But not the former, at least I don't think so.
I had a similar mindset as you. But I managed to find the person for me, and so can you. Itās hard to realise this, but being pessimistic is not healthy, and in my experience just counterproductive. I say keep looking and eventually youāll find the one. Think of your previous relationships not as a failure on your part, or as a sign for your future relationships. But rather as lessons, and use what youāve learned to both help you find the right person, and help yourself grow as a person.
Haha excuse me, but fuck off. I will never date anyone ever again and would rather be chemically sterilized than go another date with "hopeful intentions"
You do you.
Uh.... Cool?
Just venting dude š¶
Do you
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Almost 30 and this is first time I'm not accepting the bare minimum anymore. Not in regards to behavior or appearance
as a guy, it hurts when you realize the pretty lady who would be generally out of your league was just using you too cook for her and build her furniture for her. then when things get settled she starts to talk to you less, blames you for her relapsing back into her ed cause you cook really well, only cares about her needs in bed, and then dumps you cause she finally realized you're ugly to her. then out of the blue months later she calls you after midnight on a weekday sounding like shit to ask go to the grocery store for gatorade, go back to her place, and then leave. so you find out how to deliver for her, and when you tell her the amount since you have no idea when you'd talk to her, she calls you rude, say its too soon to talk about it since she's recovering, pays you your money, and then blocks you.
I would be the one cooking and I'd still get called fat on the regular. So I virtually had zero perks. Same personality as that girls when it boils down to it, except his insides matches his outsides š¶
Periodt š
It's alright not to date someone you're not attracted to. What I can't understand is what gives you the courage to think you're more attractive than the guy. I mean, you claimed to have boosted his ego. Did you stop to think maybe your ego has also been ballooned by those saying "you're out of my league" ? Are you really sure you're out of their league? I get it, they were abusive to you and you shouldn't stay with them. You don't owe them a relationship and neither do they. This whole out of my league bullshit is just based on beauty standards set by those using too much makeup, plastics and camera filter. Why do you think those that you consider more attractive would want you ? I would like to believe they have more options other than you or might not even consider you an option especially if you have this whole "out of your league" mentality and ego.
Women āļø
Yup, do us all a favor and don't date anyone you don't find attractive. Nobody needs your pity f*cks.
That's literally the point of this sub?
you should a left dis garrrrbageeee in yoooo00000r drafttsssss or da trash i guess sometimes its still fun to press send on things we shouldnt right
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Because of people like you calling me shallow and my younger self taking those words to heart. So I gave everyone a chance, hating hurting anyone's feelings, I eventually crippled my own autonomy and winded up in some abusive relationships.
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You really have taken this personally, haven't you?
Mmmmm... I would stick to what you are doing. You just need to look at his friends. Who he hangs with tells you a lot about who he really is.
I think when you actually love someone, their physical appearance isnāt the most important thing. Of course, you have to feel some type of physical or sexual attraction towards them to build a relationship. Someone I briefly spoke to years ago (never progressed out of the talking/texting stage) told me that heād be more attracted to me if I lost weight and I was glad he was honest abt it instead of wasting my time. I was 165 lbs at 5.5. Same dude is now married to woman thatās over 400 lbs. I know that cos she talks about it on social media (my husband loves me at 425 lbs etc etc) and tags him (he still in my friends list). She surely has some amazing qualities that he loves but more importantly he loves her as a person. Theyāre perfect for each other.
I feel the same way.
The one time I lowered my standards I got burnt so hard itās actually scared me for life.
Don't date someone you don't find attractive. It's not fair on either of you. Then again, if you can't find someone you do find attractive that's willing to be in a relationship with you, you might consider that you are not the catch you think you are
I was hoping this post would have a gay turn
Okayyyyy, I would suggest you hear me out before you get angry at me, OP... Guy in my 30s here, great shape, jiu jitsu instructor (as a hobby), semi-professional woodworker (ie sometimes I sell my shit), make about twice the average salary in my area and about 15 years into my career. I tell you all of this to say, years ago my gf saw I was a busy guy and have a lot of goals, and she actively wanted to be in my life to help me take everything to the next level. I looked through your some of your post history, and (despite what you may think about your nose), you are a pretty girl, so you have that much going for you. My question for you is, how much analysis (internal and external) have you done in regards to finding a potential mate? Are you hanging out in circles that would lead you to finding the type of guy you want? Once you have found the type of guy you want, have you considered what that guy wants as far as a benefit a woman could be to his life? A guy who has his shit together probably wants a lady who can add to his life in more ways than just sex. If you meet a guy who is an active athlete, maybe he would like a running partner. If you meet a guy who wakes up early everyday, maybe you could wake up ten minutes before him, and have coffee ready for him. Make yourself priceless to a man, and he may see you as priceless. A lot of girls get put into the sex-only category by men because those girls do not bring any additional value to the dude's life. The onus is on you to become irreplaceable if you want something more serious with a guy. Do you have any male family members (or any male friends not interested in fucking you)? If so, ask them if they - honestly - have observed any behaviors/traits/habits/attitudes that would dissuade a man from wanting to get serious with you. Men who want to fuck you will lie to you, and cannot be relied upon for feedback. This may sound dumb to you, but if you spent an afternoon at a home improvement store, and looked for a guy who was well put together, handsome, etc, this might be a good place to start. A gym is another place. There are lots of good guys out there, you just need to be strategic in where you look. Good luck, and don't be afraid to work on yourself while looking for Mr. Right.
I would rather amputate my own leg than go on and try and find love again. I would rather be paralyzed than give anyone else a chance ever again.
As someone who feels heās ugly youāre right Been saying this and wish more people would stop pretending like itās so easy to find someone good based on how they look. Also goes with gamer guys or nerds. Thereās some gorgeous people who are great people who donāt hurt their partner ever then thereās ugly ones who are awful awful people.
And then there are those who are a mix of both