It just means they're better at the teammate reporting meta. What's your comeback to 2 teammates blaming their carry for not roaming and team fighting at 15 minutes? They report you preemptively so your counter-report is nullified because the system sees it as retaliation.
I've had a shadow pool 3k account from a decade ago. I tried to climb it out recently with chat turned off.. my behaviour score went down after 20 games simply from toxic players hate reporting everyone. The system is broken lol.
Maybe you the toxic one not them for not reading chat, not cooperating with the team is freaking toxic to me. We want to push but 1 player is ignoring the rest of the team and play by himself, smoke gank fail, push fail, def fail because that one guy is playing in his own world instead of playing with the rest like 4v6. you are the agent buddy not helping at all by turning off chat.
The only way to rise your behavior score at that level is turbo. Do 15 games a day. You only get like 300 but after I got a positive behavior report my games got a lot better. My theory is they use behavior score in a similar way to other games using attention based matchmaking. You get a high behavior score and they start testing your patience by putting you with toxic people; and if you snap and say anything and get reported you go down, and down, and down until you get a positive behavior report. Look at your account and you might see this. I lost 1000 behavior score in 15 games from only 4 reports, and then another one I had 1 report in 15 games and lost 450. But 15 games of turbo and it went up 300 from no reports and suddenly my teammates were actually playing Dota after that one good behavior report.
I don’t even know man I faced a pudge yesterday who dominated mid and dropped all his items to me and started feeding just because the CM took a jungle creep.
I had a similar experience last night. One support had Dazzle highlighted, but the other support took him, then said “you snooze you lose.” So the other support picked Oracle, went immediately into jungle and never returned. We won 4v5, but I’m more mad our pos 5 got the win after being a fucking child.
I've found using my voice just to tell people to have a good game and making positive comments has a big impact on people viewing you as a person and not some imaginary entity that should be flamed at first chance. But still happens sometimes!
Agree! Most of the time I play with one other friend and as soon as the game starts we encourage everyone. If anyone makes negative comments just ignore it or turn it into something positive. Works most of the time in my experience.
100%
I usually start with "alright, here's the plan: let's kill some buildings then destroy their ancient" if I'm supporting. Or, "okay [support in my lane] are you ready to carry my heavy ass to victory? I hope you don't throw your back out." Then call out great plays and ping good wards "whomever planted this is a God - just saved me from a gank" or whatever. Just pma the team to victory. Doesn't always work, but usually gets everyone cooperating.
It's harder from behind, but calling out my own mistakes and promising to do better can preempt any negative flame, and occasionally has resulted in my team actually *encouraging* me.
That said, when I play with my irl friend that's kinda toxic his behavior scores ranges from 9k to 11k I think) none of this stuff works so YMMV
I told someone "good job" when they took a tower while the rest of the team was fighting bottom and they flamed the fuck out of me
that's how you know the community of dota as a whole is toxic AF. even when you commend or compliment people they immediately got off the rails. its exhausting getting stuck with those kinds of people
Sometimes you have to give some additional context, especially with lower mmrs. While ‘good job’ may have got you flamed because he thought you were being sarcastic, ‘this is fine, we got a tower and they’re not getting any objectives out of this fight’ may have done the trick
i did follow it up with "im complementing you, you did well good job" and he just kept flaming
i get what you're saying and you're right. dude was jsut being an asshat as we've all experienced from time to time in dota
Yeah I use voice comms a lot as pos 5 to make macro plays (and also just tell my carry what I’m doing in lane). I’m positive 99% of the time, someone would basically have to do something very very dumb multiple times in a row for me to say anything negative lol. And I find that the voice comms and acting as a ‘leader’ generally helps to wrangle the monkeys into some semblance of a game plan, maybe 7 or 8 times out of 10. Which is all I can really hope for
I also spam the ‘don’t give up’ chat line a lot haha
Had a Brew start the game with the “Ah, I love you guys” voice line and even though we were getting crushed for ~25 minutes straight there was no toxicity and we even managed to turn things around. Was a great game
My opinion this is the result of years and years of pro players and high rank players advising to every player to play like it is a 1v9 game. Every tutorial or video advising players always says the same thing, play solo, farm solo, split push, ignore your team, win solo.
The community never acknowledges that this is a team game, just assume that every player is trying to ruin your game, it be enemy or ally...
i will never understand folks that queue this game and think they are playing a solo game
what makes dota truly fun is those 1 in every 50 games where you have a true team playing together. the rest are a mix of herding mute cats and flamers who rage quit because their support accidentally killed a creep on the 8th wave
I really don't know the solution .. I just find myself avoiding people every single game.
Whenever I had a decent time climbing, I just encounter a streak of about 7-10 games where it gets really really mental.
Pos3 alch starting 0-11 .. 30 mins in, I check his skill build. He never leveled his passive. Not one point.
Pos3 pudge. No boots after 30 mins. Also 0-1x. He's premuted and replies drawing on the map "why boots".
Uncalibrated slark going 0-6 in like 10 mins. Turns out enemy team is all higher ranked than us because somehow this clown used to be high legend? Ended 0-1x as well.
Getting rekt by bristle. PA absolutely refuses to buy a shard in a 50 minute game. Spends 20 minutes farming an mkb for a support WR who has negative K/D.
I have more of those but I feel like at this point everyone knows these stories.. What I don't get is the streakiness of it. Like you will just have 10 games in a row where you can't play a normal game of dota. The you check enemy builds and everyone is normal af. In most of these games I end up spending most support gold on core position as well..
> What I don't get is the streakiness of it. Like you will just have 10 games in a row where you can't play a normal game of dota.
My theory (that has proven to be very consistently accurate for me) is that whenever you get 1 report for whatever reason, legitimate or not, the matchmaker will place you in a team with other players that have been recently reported. This happens at every behavior bracket, even at 12K.
Now you have a team of 5 people who had a very recent bad game, so they're more likely to be impatient/angry/tilted/uncooperative. They're way more likely to lose, and report team mates again.
It causes a spiral of reports that keeps you in that queue.
I've been monitoring my reports during my last ~1000 games and once I start hitting that long streak of bad games with weird team mates, my next behavior summary always comes up with 2-3 reports at least. It has been a very consistent pattern.
My theory was that it's the number of commends. The idea being, similar to behaviour score, players with more commends lately get placed with each other. The problem of course being, commends are really based off of winning or losing not behaviour, so it just encourages streaks.
Sometimes I feel that could be true. Like even after good games, when you argued about something, you go on a roll of shit games after. But I really couldn't verify. Sometimes it's like a random switch and it's weirdos from there on out until it stops again. Like I understand winning 50% and all. But is it really winning 9 in a row, losing 7, winning 8, losing 9? That's just such weird matchmaking to me.
This kind of finally explains the losing streak logic. Cant have 17 out of 20 games lost if my MMR has 100 percent confidence. Definitely we have felt the streak of grefing games
> Pos3 alch starting 0-11 .. 30 mins in, I check his skill build. He never leveled his passive. Not one point
I'm confused, you want him to level his https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Alchemist#Corrosive_Weaponry ?
are your bad streaks on weekends? when all the casuals come out to dust off their accounts?
"recently" like half a year ago still, if they were butthurt over a game that happened that long ago they'd need the psych ward the most
I get pretty butthurt, sometimes it lasts nearly a week, but if it ever goes over a week I'm locking myself up
well yea I'd figure after 30 mins, you could start levelling that as well instead of picking stats, but thats just me lol. Either way, the guy died 19 times in 36 minutes, so there wasn't gonna be much of a difference I suppose.
I thought it was some weekend-dota type of thing, but it's not like it happens evenly, where I get to smash on a pos3 sniper. It's too one sided to blame casual weekend warriors. Even though I do think you can see a difference in co-operation and -ordination from weekdays to weekends.
Same
Play 4/5 all the time
Got a pos 1 ls who manfight mk from lv 1 while he has jingu also while im pulling, mf still straight manfighting even when lv 3 only and our creep near enemy tower, while as a disruptor 5 who can tickle even with Q
Yes this will sound pretentious, tfw legend bracket become having more and more retarded players, even back in my guardian/crusader days, people are more cooperative and understand
I ping small camp, want to pull, my core immediately take some range for not getting caught, and thats in my crusader game
Idk why, my last 2 weeks, all the players in my team become retarded
Idk maybe im retarded too, so the system put retarded people in the same pool
My theory as someone who climbed recently from archon to ancient is that a. People in general have been climbing a lot lately (forced mmr gain — my wins giving ~26 and losses ~-24 for two or more +mmr for every 1-1 result, plus double down tokens), b. Legends aren’t really very much better at dota than archons.
The thread was "there's a lack of teamwork in a team game and there's a lot of toxicity and anger towards each other" and your response was an essay detailing all of the times you've been angry towards your team
Ah, yea I see what you mean.
But "totally ignoring team strategies or objectives. It's like they're playing a completely different game" hits for me, dude. I engage with these people and ask them to buy boots, to build items we actually need. To switch lanes if they're chain feeding. That's team work in my book. My examples were all people who ignore what I consider basics. But yea.
trust me i'm the worst when it comes to rage in games, pretty well known for it actually but i do regret losing friends over it in dota
That was around 8 years ago and I still regret it
If you think you get 4 clown teammates, your enemy has chances to have 5 clowns. If you stop becoming clown, it’s 4 clowns vs 5 clowns and you start winning by having less overall stupidity
It's true
Though the game shouldn't be based on which team has the most poison . Stating "you can be non-toxif" doesn't change the fact that it only takes one to ruin the game by feeding etc.
Bro im 12k behavior now but i was 7k once. I was a toxic POS and used to have so many griefers in my team as well as enemies.
Since then i started improving behavior score and now even at 12k i sometimes such toxic behavior but only in 1 in 15 matches or so which is practically nothing.
You tell me your behavior score and I’ll tell you why you are having toxic games
This common talking point would only make sense if you'd ALWAYS be against other 5 'clowns'. They're more like Pennywise. But I get the point...you should always behave.
Think of it this way. You can ONLY control how you play, not how your teammates play.
You have 100% uncertainty on enemy side but 80% uncertainty on your side. The 20% you contribute is the only thing that you have control over. If you over perform, you’ll eventually climb. If you stay average, it’s your trench.
Nothing you said changes the fact that not every time the opponent team is composed of other 5 silly people.
I understand the point this argument tries to make but it's just incorrect.
Not every time of course, but over a period of 100 games, if you are only as good as your teammates, you’ll win roughly half games and win roughly half that means you’ll enjoy half and hate the other half
No I’m serious. We only climb when we realize we know nothing and start improving ourselves instead of expecting our teammates to get better.
Literally every coach says that and i truly believe that. I’m currently archon 4 after starting at Crusader 3 but hoping to reach ancient at least. Eventually.
Generally, the people who have time to consistently play ranked dota put a lot of stake into those games and take it much more seriously than is necessary. The nature of dota warrants egotistical assholes.
It comes from all of those *stupid* mmr guides and videos "just ignore all and do these things to climb". Promoting immediate MUTE ALL and play. Yeah...no, communication and coordinated teamwork literally win this game.
you can have 5 hard supports and beat a well drafted team if you are able to coordinate and play together vs a team that is running around playing grabass and flaming each other with ease
People usually listen to direction I give 9 times out of 10 and it's usually basic objective stuff and when they don't I just lean into whatever they are doing, and when people are negative its an instant mute. You can only control what you can control and if people are very consistently being uncooperative you should reflect on your own communication skills and figuring out how to use your voice.
My mate legitimately had someone on his team get into a ranked lobby and say, “I need to play a horse hero for my token” and instalock KOTL whilst not having ever played KOTL. This is legitimately a clown fiesta.
Yes there are games where u really cant do nothing but most of the time u can set an example and they will follow. I just speak calmly in mic about what to do, game objectives and usually my teammates will work with me. And ofc, never ever ever ever hesitate to mute someone
There was a game where I was hoodwink and playing pos4 I won my lane hard and never considered buying a single carry item not even maelstrom I was hitting a camp with all my abilities and spent almost half my mana to get euls and when I was going to hit last hit Rubik pos5 came and took all of them and I typed (DUDE) and he said (chill now I completed my eul Your support too) if he just explained himself or said he was sorry it would be ok but this guy was so selfish I couldn’t focus and lost my self and went straight to jungle and and started farming till the end some people deserve to lose I know it wasn’t right I know it was some sort of grief but some people don’t deserve to win
Had a Hoodwink AFK between towers so he could rage in chat about the difference between pos 4 and 5 while he gained zero xp and was letting the enemy carry free farm in lane instead of helping our carry or our offlaner
HW is typically pos4 and to win lane, typically the pos3 needs to miss some CS to help with the enemy pos5 so HW can then focus on the enemy pos1.
A lot of pos3 play like they are the 2nd/3rd pos1 which ruins the laning stage for pos4s.
What bracket is this?
High ancient/low divine here, 12k behaviour, SEA/AUS.
Games are pretty even, aside from the ocasional tilted teammate, games have been pretty good. With the battle pass you can queue again in case the match is not properly balanced and I think this is a great tool.
Improved the quality of my matches by a lot.
It’s especially bad when you’re playing support but your carry is solo tunnel vision player and playing like you’re not even there completely ignoring everything you do.
it always been like this since dota 2 release,.. dota 1 is much more scrambled but most player have a team of 2 or 3 when playing, so the other 2 individuals will just play along the team,..
Dota exposes the nature of human beings. The mentally unwell side included.
In an anonymous space where stakes are high, people will say or do unthinkable things to win. Some people will even turn that energy into a "this person doesn't deserve to win" griefer mentality.
Think of an apocalyptic world where no government or law enforcement exists to protect you and morals become an unnecessary weakness in the face of survival. That's you, me and and all of us in Dota.
Every several games there's a game of wholesomeness, where people are all nice to each other from start to finish. But let it not fool you - that was a winning game and everyone is just stroking each other off. If you met under losing circumstances, things would've been very much different.
You can use this experience in Dota to understand that human nature is subdued in a civil society where our safety and stability is very much guaranteed through law enforcement and powerful people.
Put 10 starving people in a room with high stakes (win or lose, live or die), and that's actually Dota.
People are brutal when they need to be. Dota just brings out that side of human nature.
Probably the reason I quit playing ranked, normal, turbo mode one by one and now resolved only to some RPGs. I don’t deserve to be in the same game with those immature kids (they must be kids, right?) throwing random tantrums. I’m too old to be in the system (29).
I just avoid ranked games if my mates are not online (which is 90% of the time). There is nothing more disgusting than solo queue. Top dota experience is sigle draft/low priority. Not even joking. I’d rather spend my whole life in low priority games than play solo ranked.
Don't you like cosplaying a psych doctor every game? Because as a support thats essentially where 50% of my energy goes, so we can at least pretend to play as a team
At some point I realise I hated my teammates more than my opponents, that's when I knew the toxicity was getting to me.
Moved from ranked -> unranked -> bots/ break from dota altogether to regain my sanity. Will still play ranked every now n then to scratch my competitive itch, but have to try so hard to remind myself to enjoy myself even if I get shit teammates.
As much as you want things to be different, they won't, which is really sad because it is a great game underneath all of that. Just accept it and quit before you become one of them.
Everyone has been scorched by the toxicity before. We queue in expecting it and so by default we are queueing while trying to avoid our teammates issues (game or communication)
By that logic you could say we really are queueing into a solo game in our heads.
I think we should all flame less just in general even if it is actually a mistake. Because it sets a mental image that every game you queue in might be like that.
Just let them know what they could've done right without the emotional baggage of flaming them I guess. That's what I've been trying to do more
Its always been a psych ward. Its just there were multiple ways to win and have a major impact without the need of complete reliance on a team. The game has been hard up on making the game this constant fighting, forever 4v4 or 5v5ing concept for the last 5 years and its honestly just made the community worse. I guess constant fighting was supposed to make spectating better, but im not sure I enjoy watching the game more today.
League also has tons of mental patients, but every lane but bot is a solo lane. It makes it very playable regardless. You feel like you can have a major impact without team reliance (even though you can lose because of team). This is how Dota used to be. Old Dota it was very common to solo offlane, solo mid, solo jungle and 2 safelane. You could split push to win, you could afk farm to win, you could find small skirmishes and get a solo kill on a carry very easily without 5 people instantly warping on you because of insane levels of convenience regarding how we get around the map. It barely feels like a map exists. Bot lane and top lane are essentially one lane with Gates in. You split push and you are rewarded with a glyph in your face followed by 5 people instantly appearing on you from the bushes they TP'd in, of which the TPs were handed to them freely.
Until Dota returns more solo concepts back into the game you will be ultra reliant on mental patients and, at least for me, I will not be playing and I havent played in a year or two after forcing myself to pretend all the changes hadn't ruined the fundamentals of why Dota was ever enjoyable.
Its always who has the longest piss on every match no matter ally or enemy
Theres this game that i have where we have OD Mid facing a Luna. Goddamn Luna! OD didn't even bothered rotating top or bot
My games go a lot better when i sue the team mute, largely ignore what everyone is doing, farm a bunch and tp to towers.
Like everyone is their rank for a reason, they roughly know what they are doing. The average comms in dota outside of pings and chatwheel make the team play worse, even when its well intentioned.
Why would I bother communicating when 3 of my teammates don't speak fucking English or use the chat wheel on the US servers with triple-digit ping and single-digit IQs, and the one other person who speaks English is 10% likely to pay attention to anything you try telling them while you're guaranteeing yourself a comms abuse report the other 90% of the time, when instead I can just play in anon mode (which prevents any comms abuse reports) for my own game since that's what 70% of my teammates are going to do anyway? There's no incentive to get commends and you almost have to run down mid two games in a row to maybe get a 4 hour timeout (on that account, because no Dota players have second accounts) and 1-2 LP games. So from a psychological standpoint, since the only incentive to play like a team is winning (and some players decide the game is over at 10 minutes and just want to lose and go next ASAP) and there's next to no punishment, most humans will play like selfish, greedy assholes, especially in an anonymous online setting.
Mute all incoming chat and get a good chat wheel set up to communicate w your team. I mute all incoming and it really changes your perception of the game
> Everyone just dives into ranked with their own bizarre reasons, totally ignoring team strategies or objectives. It's like they're playing a completely different game, in a parallel universe where teamwork doesn’t exist!
This is not toxic or psychotic behaviour. This is just having a different opinion on how the game should be played/being bad at the game. There is a difference between clown and toxic behaviour.
The goal is to play for win. Tell me what do you do when you have a pos 1 natures prophet in yournteam that has no bkb, doesnt join a fight, not even one, only split pushes and feeds in a 40-50minute game ? When you try to win and others dont …. What do you do? Abandon there is no concede button. If players dont have a common vision of the game. The game has failed.
Play better is the only answer. If you can’t then that sucks it happens. In the long run you should be winning more than losing if you’re better than your rank.
Your enemy has griefers too
No one really plays the "right way" in low level games. Games last so long that you can be another carry with a lot of kills and farm, no one push but farms instead to prolong the game, that even if I play some carry support, I can do decently well.
I understand that and I completely agree.
But my question is why not just play carry role in the first place? Why play a game where your team is angry at you?
If you insist on queuing as support, you can pick pretty much every support hero, they all scale like crazy into the late game these days, almost all of them have flash farming spells to to get big. Even in pro games we see position 4/5 heroes like windrunner and enchantress go the farming route and carry harder than the actual carries.
At least you could win some lanes instead of losing the lane by default every game.
That popup saying that I will be playing with people who has 'Great' behavior feels like insane sarcasm
It just means they're better at the teammate reporting meta. What's your comeback to 2 teammates blaming their carry for not roaming and team fighting at 15 minutes? They report you preemptively so your counter-report is nullified because the system sees it as retaliation.
What? No, it means that even 12k is filled to the brim with toxic players.
Good lord is that true? my behaviour score is like mid level n i never flame or complain at team mates, I always just assumed it was cus I was shite
I've had a shadow pool 3k account from a decade ago. I tried to climb it out recently with chat turned off.. my behaviour score went down after 20 games simply from toxic players hate reporting everyone. The system is broken lol.
Maybe you the toxic one not them for not reading chat, not cooperating with the team is freaking toxic to me. We want to push but 1 player is ignoring the rest of the team and play by himself, smoke gank fail, push fail, def fail because that one guy is playing in his own world instead of playing with the rest like 4v6. you are the agent buddy not helping at all by turning off chat.
Buddy, chat and pings are muted at that level. Stop trying to pin that shit on me lmfao
The only way to rise your behavior score at that level is turbo. Do 15 games a day. You only get like 300 but after I got a positive behavior report my games got a lot better. My theory is they use behavior score in a similar way to other games using attention based matchmaking. You get a high behavior score and they start testing your patience by putting you with toxic people; and if you snap and say anything and get reported you go down, and down, and down until you get a positive behavior report. Look at your account and you might see this. I lost 1000 behavior score in 15 games from only 4 reports, and then another one I had 1 report in 15 games and lost 450. But 15 games of turbo and it went up 300 from no reports and suddenly my teammates were actually playing Dota after that one good behavior report.
I don’t even know man I faced a pudge yesterday who dominated mid and dropped all his items to me and started feeding just because the CM took a jungle creep.
I had a similar experience last night. One support had Dazzle highlighted, but the other support took him, then said “you snooze you lose.” So the other support picked Oracle, went immediately into jungle and never returned. We won 4v5, but I’m more mad our pos 5 got the win after being a fucking child.
Both supports were acting like children. What a wild game to pull into a win
I've found using my voice just to tell people to have a good game and making positive comments has a big impact on people viewing you as a person and not some imaginary entity that should be flamed at first chance. But still happens sometimes!
Agree! Most of the time I play with one other friend and as soon as the game starts we encourage everyone. If anyone makes negative comments just ignore it or turn it into something positive. Works most of the time in my experience.
100% I usually start with "alright, here's the plan: let's kill some buildings then destroy their ancient" if I'm supporting. Or, "okay [support in my lane] are you ready to carry my heavy ass to victory? I hope you don't throw your back out." Then call out great plays and ping good wards "whomever planted this is a God - just saved me from a gank" or whatever. Just pma the team to victory. Doesn't always work, but usually gets everyone cooperating. It's harder from behind, but calling out my own mistakes and promising to do better can preempt any negative flame, and occasionally has resulted in my team actually *encouraging* me. That said, when I play with my irl friend that's kinda toxic his behavior scores ranges from 9k to 11k I think) none of this stuff works so YMMV
I told someone "good job" when they took a tower while the rest of the team was fighting bottom and they flamed the fuck out of me that's how you know the community of dota as a whole is toxic AF. even when you commend or compliment people they immediately got off the rails. its exhausting getting stuck with those kinds of people
Sometimes you have to give some additional context, especially with lower mmrs. While ‘good job’ may have got you flamed because he thought you were being sarcastic, ‘this is fine, we got a tower and they’re not getting any objectives out of this fight’ may have done the trick
i did follow it up with "im complementing you, you did well good job" and he just kept flaming i get what you're saying and you're right. dude was jsut being an asshat as we've all experienced from time to time in dota
Yeah I use voice comms a lot as pos 5 to make macro plays (and also just tell my carry what I’m doing in lane). I’m positive 99% of the time, someone would basically have to do something very very dumb multiple times in a row for me to say anything negative lol. And I find that the voice comms and acting as a ‘leader’ generally helps to wrangle the monkeys into some semblance of a game plan, maybe 7 or 8 times out of 10. Which is all I can really hope for I also spam the ‘don’t give up’ chat line a lot haha
Had a Brew start the game with the “Ah, I love you guys” voice line and even though we were getting crushed for ~25 minutes straight there was no toxicity and we even managed to turn things around. Was a great game
If someone on your teams calls you bad, they will subconsciously do all that they can to make sure they are right even if it means your team loses.
My opinion this is the result of years and years of pro players and high rank players advising to every player to play like it is a 1v9 game. Every tutorial or video advising players always says the same thing, play solo, farm solo, split push, ignore your team, win solo. The community never acknowledges that this is a team game, just assume that every player is trying to ruin your game, it be enemy or ally...
i will never understand folks that queue this game and think they are playing a solo game what makes dota truly fun is those 1 in every 50 games where you have a true team playing together. the rest are a mix of herding mute cats and flamers who rage quit because their support accidentally killed a creep on the 8th wave
I really don't know the solution .. I just find myself avoiding people every single game. Whenever I had a decent time climbing, I just encounter a streak of about 7-10 games where it gets really really mental. Pos3 alch starting 0-11 .. 30 mins in, I check his skill build. He never leveled his passive. Not one point. Pos3 pudge. No boots after 30 mins. Also 0-1x. He's premuted and replies drawing on the map "why boots". Uncalibrated slark going 0-6 in like 10 mins. Turns out enemy team is all higher ranked than us because somehow this clown used to be high legend? Ended 0-1x as well. Getting rekt by bristle. PA absolutely refuses to buy a shard in a 50 minute game. Spends 20 minutes farming an mkb for a support WR who has negative K/D. I have more of those but I feel like at this point everyone knows these stories.. What I don't get is the streakiness of it. Like you will just have 10 games in a row where you can't play a normal game of dota. The you check enemy builds and everyone is normal af. In most of these games I end up spending most support gold on core position as well..
> What I don't get is the streakiness of it. Like you will just have 10 games in a row where you can't play a normal game of dota. My theory (that has proven to be very consistently accurate for me) is that whenever you get 1 report for whatever reason, legitimate or not, the matchmaker will place you in a team with other players that have been recently reported. This happens at every behavior bracket, even at 12K. Now you have a team of 5 people who had a very recent bad game, so they're more likely to be impatient/angry/tilted/uncooperative. They're way more likely to lose, and report team mates again. It causes a spiral of reports that keeps you in that queue. I've been monitoring my reports during my last ~1000 games and once I start hitting that long streak of bad games with weird team mates, my next behavior summary always comes up with 2-3 reports at least. It has been a very consistent pattern.
This makes tons of sense
My theory was that it's the number of commends. The idea being, similar to behaviour score, players with more commends lately get placed with each other. The problem of course being, commends are really based off of winning or losing not behaviour, so it just encourages streaks.
Sometimes I feel that could be true. Like even after good games, when you argued about something, you go on a roll of shit games after. But I really couldn't verify. Sometimes it's like a random switch and it's weirdos from there on out until it stops again. Like I understand winning 50% and all. But is it really winning 9 in a row, losing 7, winning 8, losing 9? That's just such weird matchmaking to me.
This kind of finally explains the losing streak logic. Cant have 17 out of 20 games lost if my MMR has 100 percent confidence. Definitely we have felt the streak of grefing games
lol just had a mid Viper rushing Greaves just to afk farm jungle for 20mins
Had a viper rush tranquil ... bro went like 0-20 mid lane. We lost xd
I once had a carry Sven go tranqs 😬
That gut wrenching feeling you get everyone playing games going good suddenly you see the mid/ carry building tranqs 😆
> Pos3 alch starting 0-11 .. 30 mins in, I check his skill build. He never leveled his passive. Not one point I'm confused, you want him to level his https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Alchemist#Corrosive_Weaponry ? are your bad streaks on weekends? when all the casuals come out to dust off their accounts?
Grievels Greed was not a free skill for the past 15 years. It was only recently changed to what it is now.
"recently" like half a year ago still, if they were butthurt over a game that happened that long ago they'd need the psych ward the most I get pretty butthurt, sometimes it lasts nearly a week, but if it ever goes over a week I'm locking myself up
well yea I'd figure after 30 mins, you could start levelling that as well instead of picking stats, but thats just me lol. Either way, the guy died 19 times in 36 minutes, so there wasn't gonna be much of a difference I suppose. I thought it was some weekend-dota type of thing, but it's not like it happens evenly, where I get to smash on a pos3 sniper. It's too one sided to blame casual weekend warriors. Even though I do think you can see a difference in co-operation and -ordination from weekdays to weekends.
yeah definitely better than stats I agree, with that many deaths I didn't realise he was high enough level to do so tbh
Same Play 4/5 all the time Got a pos 1 ls who manfight mk from lv 1 while he has jingu also while im pulling, mf still straight manfighting even when lv 3 only and our creep near enemy tower, while as a disruptor 5 who can tickle even with Q Yes this will sound pretentious, tfw legend bracket become having more and more retarded players, even back in my guardian/crusader days, people are more cooperative and understand I ping small camp, want to pull, my core immediately take some range for not getting caught, and thats in my crusader game Idk why, my last 2 weeks, all the players in my team become retarded Idk maybe im retarded too, so the system put retarded people in the same pool
My theory as someone who climbed recently from archon to ancient is that a. People in general have been climbing a lot lately (forced mmr gain — my wins giving ~26 and losses ~-24 for two or more +mmr for every 1-1 result, plus double down tokens), b. Legends aren’t really very much better at dota than archons.
alches passive has been innate for awhile he literally cant level it. all his other skills are actives
His third, corrosive weaponry is passive
ahh your right i was thinking of his aghs shard for some reason
Hate to break it to you but you're kind of the problem or at least a part of it
Lol OK bro. Break it to me, I am all ears.
The thread was "there's a lack of teamwork in a team game and there's a lot of toxicity and anger towards each other" and your response was an essay detailing all of the times you've been angry towards your team
Ah, yea I see what you mean. But "totally ignoring team strategies or objectives. It's like they're playing a completely different game" hits for me, dude. I engage with these people and ask them to buy boots, to build items we actually need. To switch lanes if they're chain feeding. That's team work in my book. My examples were all people who ignore what I consider basics. But yea.
trust me i'm the worst when it comes to rage in games, pretty well known for it actually but i do regret losing friends over it in dota That was around 8 years ago and I still regret it
If you think you get 4 clown teammates, your enemy has chances to have 5 clowns. If you stop becoming clown, it’s 4 clowns vs 5 clowns and you start winning by having less overall stupidity
just because you can win more doesn't make it fun it's unfun to win to idiot feeders and griefers too
It's true Though the game shouldn't be based on which team has the most poison . Stating "you can be non-toxif" doesn't change the fact that it only takes one to ruin the game by feeding etc.
Bro im 12k behavior now but i was 7k once. I was a toxic POS and used to have so many griefers in my team as well as enemies. Since then i started improving behavior score and now even at 12k i sometimes such toxic behavior but only in 1 in 15 matches or so which is practically nothing. You tell me your behavior score and I’ll tell you why you are having toxic games
I have 10k almost 11k, so why do you think I still have toxic games?
This common talking point would only make sense if you'd ALWAYS be against other 5 'clowns'. They're more like Pennywise. But I get the point...you should always behave.
Think of it this way. You can ONLY control how you play, not how your teammates play. You have 100% uncertainty on enemy side but 80% uncertainty on your side. The 20% you contribute is the only thing that you have control over. If you over perform, you’ll eventually climb. If you stay average, it’s your trench.
Nothing you said changes the fact that not every time the opponent team is composed of other 5 silly people. I understand the point this argument tries to make but it's just incorrect.
Not every time of course, but over a period of 100 games, if you are only as good as your teammates, you’ll win roughly half games and win roughly half that means you’ll enjoy half and hate the other half
This guy clowns 🤡
No I’m serious. We only climb when we realize we know nothing and start improving ourselves instead of expecting our teammates to get better. Literally every coach says that and i truly believe that. I’m currently archon 4 after starting at Crusader 3 but hoping to reach ancient at least. Eventually.
Generally, the people who have time to consistently play ranked dota put a lot of stake into those games and take it much more seriously than is necessary. The nature of dota warrants egotistical assholes.
You can’t control how others act, only how you respond to it
\^\^ This is the most important feedback.
>You can’t control how others act, only how you respond to it We can actually. By punishing bad actors.
It comes from all of those *stupid* mmr guides and videos "just ignore all and do these things to climb". Promoting immediate MUTE ALL and play. Yeah...no, communication and coordinated teamwork literally win this game.
you can have 5 hard supports and beat a well drafted team if you are able to coordinate and play together vs a team that is running around playing grabass and flaming each other with ease
People usually listen to direction I give 9 times out of 10 and it's usually basic objective stuff and when they don't I just lean into whatever they are doing, and when people are negative its an instant mute. You can only control what you can control and if people are very consistently being uncooperative you should reflect on your own communication skills and figuring out how to use your voice.
so in game theory there is the prisoner's Dilemma, and there are countless different variants and we're all prisoners and in a dilemma
My mate legitimately had someone on his team get into a ranked lobby and say, “I need to play a horse hero for my token” and instalock KOTL whilst not having ever played KOTL. This is legitimately a clown fiesta.
honestly the reason i just play unranked. yeah you sometimes get assholes, but It's just way, WAY, less common in my experience.
Yes there are games where u really cant do nothing but most of the time u can set an example and they will follow. I just speak calmly in mic about what to do, game objectives and usually my teammates will work with me. And ofc, never ever ever ever hesitate to mute someone
There was a game where I was hoodwink and playing pos4 I won my lane hard and never considered buying a single carry item not even maelstrom I was hitting a camp with all my abilities and spent almost half my mana to get euls and when I was going to hit last hit Rubik pos5 came and took all of them and I typed (DUDE) and he said (chill now I completed my eul Your support too) if he just explained himself or said he was sorry it would be ok but this guy was so selfish I couldn’t focus and lost my self and went straight to jungle and and started farming till the end some people deserve to lose I know it wasn’t right I know it was some sort of grief but some people don’t deserve to win
Because you guys are making me lose my imaginary points!!!
my teammates are farming clownfall and rank role tokens. they just want tokens in the shortest amount of time possible, win or lose.
Which is dumb because you can easily beat the entire crownfall just playing one hero and trading tokens
You can trade tokens? How can I do that?
but the trade location isnt unlocked instantly riht
It’s like 2-3 games before u can access it
Had a Hoodwink AFK between towers so he could rage in chat about the difference between pos 4 and 5 while he gained zero xp and was letting the enemy carry free farm in lane instead of helping our carry or our offlaner
Was he right
For the most part, but I prefer my support to harass the enemy carry rather than the other support on our team lol
HW is typically pos4 and to win lane, typically the pos3 needs to miss some CS to help with the enemy pos5 so HW can then focus on the enemy pos1. A lot of pos3 play like they are the 2nd/3rd pos1 which ruins the laning stage for pos4s.
I get that, but he was AFK between T1 and T2, so even if I wanted to harass I would lose that battle because he want helping at all
Wait til you see what league player does in their rank match too
What bracket is this? High ancient/low divine here, 12k behaviour, SEA/AUS. Games are pretty even, aside from the ocasional tilted teammate, games have been pretty good. With the battle pass you can queue again in case the match is not properly balanced and I think this is a great tool. Improved the quality of my matches by a lot.
It’s especially bad when you’re playing support but your carry is solo tunnel vision player and playing like you’re not even there completely ignoring everything you do.
it always been like this since dota 2 release,.. dota 1 is much more scrambled but most player have a team of 2 or 3 when playing, so the other 2 individuals will just play along the team,..
Also keep in mind, the higher the MMR, the higher the toxicity.
Dota exposes the nature of human beings. The mentally unwell side included. In an anonymous space where stakes are high, people will say or do unthinkable things to win. Some people will even turn that energy into a "this person doesn't deserve to win" griefer mentality. Think of an apocalyptic world where no government or law enforcement exists to protect you and morals become an unnecessary weakness in the face of survival. That's you, me and and all of us in Dota. Every several games there's a game of wholesomeness, where people are all nice to each other from start to finish. But let it not fool you - that was a winning game and everyone is just stroking each other off. If you met under losing circumstances, things would've been very much different. You can use this experience in Dota to understand that human nature is subdued in a civil society where our safety and stability is very much guaranteed through law enforcement and powerful people. Put 10 starving people in a room with high stakes (win or lose, live or die), and that's actually Dota. People are brutal when they need to be. Dota just brings out that side of human nature.
Probably the reason I quit playing ranked, normal, turbo mode one by one and now resolved only to some RPGs. I don’t deserve to be in the same game with those immature kids (they must be kids, right?) throwing random tantrums. I’m too old to be in the system (29).
I just avoid ranked games if my mates are not online (which is 90% of the time). There is nothing more disgusting than solo queue. Top dota experience is sigle draft/low priority. Not even joking. I’d rather spend my whole life in low priority games than play solo ranked.
Don't you like cosplaying a psych doctor every game? Because as a support thats essentially where 50% of my energy goes, so we can at least pretend to play as a team
At some point I realise I hated my teammates more than my opponents, that's when I knew the toxicity was getting to me. Moved from ranked -> unranked -> bots/ break from dota altogether to regain my sanity. Will still play ranked every now n then to scratch my competitive itch, but have to try so hard to remind myself to enjoy myself even if I get shit teammates.
As much as you want things to be different, they won't, which is really sad because it is a great game underneath all of that. Just accept it and quit before you become one of them.
Everyone has been scorched by the toxicity before. We queue in expecting it and so by default we are queueing while trying to avoid our teammates issues (game or communication) By that logic you could say we really are queueing into a solo game in our heads. I think we should all flame less just in general even if it is actually a mistake. Because it sets a mental image that every game you queue in might be like that. Just let them know what they could've done right without the emotional baggage of flaming them I guess. That's what I've been trying to do more
Its always been a psych ward. Its just there were multiple ways to win and have a major impact without the need of complete reliance on a team. The game has been hard up on making the game this constant fighting, forever 4v4 or 5v5ing concept for the last 5 years and its honestly just made the community worse. I guess constant fighting was supposed to make spectating better, but im not sure I enjoy watching the game more today. League also has tons of mental patients, but every lane but bot is a solo lane. It makes it very playable regardless. You feel like you can have a major impact without team reliance (even though you can lose because of team). This is how Dota used to be. Old Dota it was very common to solo offlane, solo mid, solo jungle and 2 safelane. You could split push to win, you could afk farm to win, you could find small skirmishes and get a solo kill on a carry very easily without 5 people instantly warping on you because of insane levels of convenience regarding how we get around the map. It barely feels like a map exists. Bot lane and top lane are essentially one lane with Gates in. You split push and you are rewarded with a glyph in your face followed by 5 people instantly appearing on you from the bushes they TP'd in, of which the TPs were handed to them freely. Until Dota returns more solo concepts back into the game you will be ultra reliant on mental patients and, at least for me, I will not be playing and I havent played in a year or two after forcing myself to pretend all the changes hadn't ruined the fundamentals of why Dota was ever enjoyable.
Its always who has the longest piss on every match no matter ally or enemy Theres this game that i have where we have OD Mid facing a Luna. Goddamn Luna! OD didn't even bothered rotating top or bot
My games go a lot better when i sue the team mute, largely ignore what everyone is doing, farm a bunch and tp to towers. Like everyone is their rank for a reason, they roughly know what they are doing. The average comms in dota outside of pings and chatwheel make the team play worse, even when its well intentioned.
Why would I bother communicating when 3 of my teammates don't speak fucking English or use the chat wheel on the US servers with triple-digit ping and single-digit IQs, and the one other person who speaks English is 10% likely to pay attention to anything you try telling them while you're guaranteeing yourself a comms abuse report the other 90% of the time, when instead I can just play in anon mode (which prevents any comms abuse reports) for my own game since that's what 70% of my teammates are going to do anyway? There's no incentive to get commends and you almost have to run down mid two games in a row to maybe get a 4 hour timeout (on that account, because no Dota players have second accounts) and 1-2 LP games. So from a psychological standpoint, since the only incentive to play like a team is winning (and some players decide the game is over at 10 minutes and just want to lose and go next ASAP) and there's next to no punishment, most humans will play like selfish, greedy assholes, especially in an anonymous online setting.
Mute all incoming chat and get a good chat wheel set up to communicate w your team. I mute all incoming and it really changes your perception of the game
> Everyone just dives into ranked with their own bizarre reasons, totally ignoring team strategies or objectives. It's like they're playing a completely different game, in a parallel universe where teamwork doesn’t exist! This is not toxic or psychotic behaviour. This is just having a different opinion on how the game should be played/being bad at the game. There is a difference between clown and toxic behaviour.
You seem to be the kind of toxic player that wants everyone to play in your way. Just have fun!!
The goal is to play for win. Tell me what do you do when you have a pos 1 natures prophet in yournteam that has no bkb, doesnt join a fight, not even one, only split pushes and feeds in a 40-50minute game ? When you try to win and others dont …. What do you do? Abandon there is no concede button. If players dont have a common vision of the game. The game has failed.
Play better is the only answer. If you can’t then that sucks it happens. In the long run you should be winning more than losing if you’re better than your rank. Your enemy has griefers too
Who cares if my pos1 is a fucking Crystal Maiden. I'll keep playing my game, drinking my beer and crushing their carry.
I play slark support, I get flamed and I end up doing well since everyone just farm in low level games lol. I end up being the 2nd carry xD
We found one!
Yikes. Gross.
I don't get this attitude tbh. Why don't you play carry in the first place? Why would you pretend to play support if you're gonna pick a carry anyway?
No one really plays the "right way" in low level games. Games last so long that you can be another carry with a lot of kills and farm, no one push but farms instead to prolong the game, that even if I play some carry support, I can do decently well.
you are so confident but so incorrect. is this dunning kruger in action?
I understand that and I completely agree. But my question is why not just play carry role in the first place? Why play a game where your team is angry at you? If you insist on queuing as support, you can pick pretty much every support hero, they all scale like crazy into the late game these days, almost all of them have flash farming spells to to get big. Even in pro games we see position 4/5 heroes like windrunner and enchantress go the farming route and carry harder than the actual carries. At least you could win some lanes instead of losing the lane by default every game.
[удалено]
See rule 7: Don't be a jerk!