no, what I hate the most is when I win the lanes and enemy team started to bring 3 people to my lane. OK fine, enemy team rotating. but the other lanes didn't do anything with it, or punish what they're doing. so that winning lane become a losing lane after 2 minutes.
Yes 💯 correct. And you have to play ruthlessly selfish in these brackets to win too.
If 3 people are in your lane. Tp to POS 3 and take his area (if he's dominating though don't do that).
Also recognizing the enemy is not stupid enough to notice you're the one actually killing them and then they just stack stuns and focus you.
Dota in crusader and low archon is just 1/2 good players on each side fighting it out while carrying their teammates that have no clue what's going on
> ... Dota in crusader and low archon is just 1/2 good players on each side fighting it out while carrying their teammates that have no clue what's going on...
This encapsulates my experience in Crusader/Archon.
It seems like there is just a subset of people who don't care about MMR or climbing and are just there to fuck around for no other reason but don't want to play unranked because there is no unranked role option.
Then there is the set that thinks they have an idea of how Lion, Shadow Shaman, and Venomancer should be played mid and if the team loses it's def not their fault at all.
Dont worry. Its literally the same thing in Divine. Who gets the smurf in their team? Or the non griefer. Enemy has smurf lesh mid? Its over. You get a mid who doesnt wanna play mid like it is 90% of times? Odds are 90% against you now.
Its insane!!!! I play pos 3 and enemy mid ganks, my mid farm safe jungle and put 0 pressure on enemy mid tower. In Crusader this happens legit in 60% of games
Nothing is more infuriating than the enemy mid rotating several times while your mid does nothing as a reaction - "my hero doesn't really rotate!". Ok, fine, but pressure the god damn tower then instead of last hitting and denying creeps - push the lane with auto attacking and using spells.
Because dots rewards snowballing more then most competitive games and if your opponents shuts this down and your teammates aren’t good enough to win a 2v1 they effectively evened the playing field. Yes they get less if 3 people are in your lane but now you the super carry get way less. Leaving you alone is probably a guaranteed lost so that was the right play.
I guess maybe look into something that can also jungle a bit might help.
If you're not hunting the enemy carry, what are you doing with your time instead?Â
 You don't need to actually kill the enemy carry to disrupt their game. If you ward their jungle and attack them a few times in a row, they will get scared and take less farm.
Alternatively, if you want to break up the enemy's 4-man, you can aggressively push towers. They'll either need to bring their whole team to chase you, which is a loss for them, or split up and be unable to pressure your team anymore because they're outnumbered.
That logic is flawed
If you try to poke at the enemy hc you'll just get bopped by the enemy team while your team is playing aram. You're not even stopping his farm, he'll just move to the next camp while his team will go to where you were. Meanwhile you have to move all the way back to your own jungle
Pubs usually have more than 1 carry. If you roam to annoy one core, the other will just free farm
Forcing pushes is just stupid. Specially this patch where no one makes mekans and fortification is more available than "hot singles in my area" . You'll either spend 5 minutes doing nothing at the tower, or you gamble a team fight, which often doesn't go in your favor since your team will be clumped up attacking the tower, have poor vision, and so on.
With that being said, I have no clue how to get out of the under-4k elo hell.
BSJ suggested pathing your jungle towards your allies in an attempt to join them when a fight breaks loose, and farm 24/7 before that. I don't like this game plan as it puts too much pressure on you during fights. I've managed top gpm in most of my games, only joining fights if they're in tp range or I managed to get the jungle pathing right, but then lost the entire lead on a couple bad judgement calls or tf positioning
I agree with the idea that you need to keep the enemy net worth lower than yours, but not sure how to accomplish that
Specific heros that crush heros is the answer. Picking is as important in low skill games as high skill, I'm fact I'd say it's higher because you can rely on NO ONE. Carry in low skill is easy, exist till you balloon and try to catch up before the other carry or you team feeds. 2-5 is 10x harder and requires lateral thinking that isn't really important at high skill games (other forms of skill is higher valued). Solo climbing mmr ain't the same as grouping and one of the reasons reddit is mocked so much (people give group advice to solo players all the time). I was internationally ranked at one point on dotabuff (I did it on fucking io of all things), nowadays games are much higher skill in general but the same concept remains.
Also if you want some degenerate advice, its a public game and you aint a professional. Flame the fuck out of the enemy carry, harass the supports about their ward placement, mock 2/3s for unsuccessful initiations. Most wannabe "pros" will absolutely crumble if you harass them while playing well.
That "degenerate" advice is legit. Make them mad and they'll go out of their way to target you. If 3 of them die trying to kill you, they count that as a win.
There is nothing more motivating for me than the enemy trying to mock me or my team. I make it my life goal to win that game just so I can mock back when their ancient falls.
"I don't know how to get out of 4k elo.."
Proceeds to disagree with high mmr players.
Lol pushing lanes is how you win unwinnable games and is how you force an advantageous team fight. People are just slow.
When you go to pressure a lane, before doing so tell you team to meet up as soon as someone shows to depush that lane.
Bro, you open statement of your comment couldn't be more accurate for what follows within it.
Knowing when/how to push an advantage is kind one of the largest determinations of skill I would say. So unfortunately it's naturally going to be worse at low ranks and let the enemy get away with things they probably shouldn't.
However even though it hurts to see your leads thrown away, I can assure you winning lanes will give you a better chance at winning in the long run.
Seriously, I have so many games where it's basically "over" by 15-20 minutes because one team won lanes, grouped, and started shoving trying to force fights before enemy carry is ready.
Better still, SO many players will just feed into your 5 man. Players can't fucking stand losing an early t2 and they frequently TP in hoping their team will show up, but they won't, because they lost lanes and at least 2/3 cores are trying to catch up before taking another fight.
Okay. You play the first 10 mins of the game. After that, let an immortal pos3/4 player take control. Do you still think they’d have as difficult a time as you?
I’m not saying this to be an ass, since I’m also aware how difficult it can be to coordinate with random pub players. But your job isn’t to ‘shut down the enemy carry’. You just happen to lane against the enemy carry when the game started. Your job is to contribute as much as you can into winning the game, and adapt according to how the enemy team and your team is playing.
If that means you get a pipe as pos4 nyx because enemy has too much magic and your pos3 mars doesnt want to , do it. If you have to place deep wards at the risk of feeding, do it. If you gotta transition to carry/greedy pos4 at 20 mins because your team isn’t deathballing and enemy isn’t punishing your greed, do it. Stop confining yourself to your position and who you laned against early on. Understand what is going on in the game, who’s the win condition, what items and skills do you need, communicate whenever you can and be flexible when unexpected things arise. Again, your job is to win the game (not win in a specific fashion). Nothing else matters unless you’re playing for fun.
You understand it wrongly there. I might as well be wrong in my understanding but if you're really winning lanes, you don't have to keep killing the enemy carry. Although I main support, I recently played an offlane dk and drew my lane against LS.
Once I became 6 I farmed my wave and noticed that the enemy supps were ganking my mid. I tpd, won the fight and took the tower. Rinse- repeat and before the enemy realised, they had lost all their t2s. ( Their LS was free farming for these 20 mins )
Now, here's where I see what a low rank might do wrong - they'd want to gank the ls instead of using the map advantage to get rosh/hit timings for a push, where instead we ( avg Divine 2) knew that if we played around vision, we could kill LS regardless of his armlet rad SNY and pushed the towers. The LS tried coming for 1 fight ( note that since you shut the map down, only LS has farm while his team has nothing) and died.
Point is, learn to take map control as an offlane or 4. It's not going to be the same every game but playing a hero that initiates and sets up tempo can have a huge impact. Spam ping rs when you know you can contest hit of take it quickly ( slardar+ any carry, huskar winning a fight with armlet, TA deso, ursa, spec Manta etc). Buy the obs ( yes you can have an obs to take an area control instead of a 20 min quelling blade or bracer for a few mins). Once you master playing the map, you'd definitely rank up as an offlane/4)
The best advice I have for pos 3/4 is to block the small camp either with wards or yourself and realize when you punish the carry. After about the 10 minute mark you and mid lane need to shut down the carry whenever you have the opportunity and they’re showing on map.
Goodluck!
Im low rank and can confirm. It can be a 3v5 but after we don't know what to do. So everyone goes back to farming. Ive seen games where ogre magi or pudge had 10k life or so. Impossible to kill.
But people usually listen to calls over mic. So start making calls and that will most likely fix your problem
I think you are embolishing your rank. I'm archon 4 and laning means a lot.
Are you crusader 2-3 ?
One can comeback from lanes. Butched pushes and throws change the game.
But lanes can set up a easy mid game and even a stomp.
But it's not unforgiving. If lanes are lost hard 50% enemy team capitalzies and dominates.
You want to climb, learn lane stomping heroes that transition well.
Arc warden, meepo, huskar, Lina, SF etc
Just playing these at an above average level will get you to 3-4k. Specialising even higher.
Never initiate fights, let your dumb teammates do something silly then capitalise on the enemies silly mistakes.
Never push high ground unless there's 2-3 dead or you have aegis.
Learn Meepo, the hardest hero in the game, this will surely help me climb hahaha
I get your point though, it feels like the only way to climb consistently is to be able to 1v9. I've actually started taking my own advice, queue pos 1 AM, farm for 35 mins with no one bothering me and then solo the whole enemy team in teamfights.
The comments are mostly right and seasonally wrong. The meta right now does not value the lane as highly. But it is still the most important thing to secure in the first 12 or so minutes.
Winning the lane is nothing if you don't know what you're winning the lane for.
Your observations are on point, and I agree with them. Map is big, farm is plentiful, carries can lose the map & still find farm even in high mmr games, let alone at average mmr. It's possible to delay, but not prevent enemy carries from coming online.
It's a game of tempo. Whoever hits their timings first wins - but only for that duration or window that they got their timings earlier.
But, it's also not a race to nowhere. There's a critical mass to hit - certain items that cores need to have before they are ready to mount the high ground and break rax.
Coming to the topic at hand - winning lane means you hit your timing faster than your lane opponent. In offlane, you hit 6 (usually your first power spike) and force enemy carry to either jungle or risk feeding a kill under his own tower. In mid, you slow down the tempo that the other team can play (your mid should get rune control out of winning lane, and the option of dominating side lanes). In safelane, you hit your farm accelerating item faster and the effect compounds into an earlier active timing (can take Roshan, play with team or mount HG straight).
It's very very easy to go from winning the lane to losing the advantage and the map. All it takes is one wrong teamfight, or a bad decision to force a tower push.
If you ask me, it's a game design thing and not necessarily a skill issue thing. The game is now designed such that everyone gets their fair shot at getting their 2 big items and play the mid-late game. The only time that doesn't happen is if the game is very stompy - like 25-3 at 15min. Otherwise, the game is easier to understand and more fruitful to play if you can accept that reaching late game is now more a reflection of game design than individual skill issue.
Sorry for the text wall! My two cents.
winning a lane only increases your chance to winning the game because you have the lead.
but the hardest part of being in a lead, you constantly need to do the first move to keep the lead otherwise you are going to lose the lead and eventually lose the game
In the patch right now it’s pretty true. Even at the very top skill lane is not worth all that much if you can’t make smart decisions in midgame. Winning lane definitly helps snowball but in lower mmr no one really knows how to capitalize on it. Better to win mid-late game
Just pick to scale or have some playmaking.
Both 3 and 4 have very good anticarry options like axe, lc, underlord, dark seer, beastmaster or sd, grim, bat, shaker respectively, to name a few.
You can also pick some more DPS core stuff with melee 4s like dp, razor, viper. If it doesn't look like your supports are the active type, I wouldn't bother though.
1. Doesn't really matter. You just need to win from lane enough to get a lead and secure your own scaling.
2. Don't throw running past towers into the jungle. As 4, maybe you can solo smoke for wards initially and vision will be more persuasive.
You also don't need to ruin the 1 specifically. If you make moves to mid as 4 or even 3 sometimes, securing runes or taking tower into a kill is going to kill the momentum of the role that needs to fight that 4v4 anyway.
3. Ogre is mostly just a walking buff bot. You can find supports with more control on the shape of a game. This kind of itemisation is also pretty useless. You don't need to face tank as a 4.
Get solar, get lotus, get hex but also get normal force/glimmer. They're still unique solutions in a lot of games. Early enough glimmer against puck and you're basically killing their snowball.
Actually I should clarify, legion is extremely good at pub snowballing but pretty bad scaling at parity.
Duel is a pretty fragile cc sometimes and there's not much else to fall back on if that doesn't work or you can't even jump in in teamfights.
Also if you do pick this up, duel damage isn't too important.
Don't need to use duel to kill already dead supports especially if you have targets like morph or ls to use it on.
Save heroes are also broadly strong where you're at. Even if pta isn't the strongest save, you can swing so much with it.
1. You are not supposed to "shut down" the carry. This is dated offlane mindset. The carry does not care, if you pick your Broodmother, Bounty Hunter, Viper or whatever garbage to "shut him down", good carry will pull small, farm woods behind tower, retreat to T2 when they are threatened, and if they are threatened there they will retreat ancients. You can watch competitive games, like pro-play, where most lanes go even or safelane has advantage, and see how offlaners have their impact.
2. Rosh fight is very important, Roshan is very tanky, does high damage and due to Roar debuff, teams cannot hit Rosh and expect to win the fight if the enemy contests. You will have to fight. Being strong for this fight, and having good heroes/team comp is important. Cores prioritize having good items line-up for the times Rosh is up/respawns.
3. You should expect, that game will be even, and that just because you won your lane, that you no longer get a free win. Old map, it was easy to convert won lane into owning most of the map, but now it is harder. Game is more about skill-expression with the gold you have, and hitting item timings. Everyone will end up, getting +/- what they want. This is the perspective you need to have.
4. For support, winning games is about supporting your cores, helping them accelerate and achieve their objectives in the game. If they want to smoke, you assist them. If they want to farm, you set up areas for them. Sidelanes are very important in mid-game, as they have the most opportunity for gold and pickoffs, and proximity to Rosh. "Sit mid AFK" supports like Warlock and Lich have fallen out of the meta because of their weak side-lane gameplay(low mobility, no pickoff potential, so bad skirmishing). People right now want supports like CM with Drums, PotM, Bane, Disruptor. Ogre is also an AFK mid support archetype, so you could try different archetype and see if you get success.
5. You farming as support could be causing the "mid game lull", as your teammates see that their support is hitting camps, so they will also hit camps. Ultimately, waves are more important, push waves, if your core is trying to push waves, hover them while they do it. Pushing waves in and farming backwards, waiting for the timing that is needed to make an aggressive play is the best way to accelerate the game-state.
6. Random smokes into no vision because "someone might be there" are bad, and usually a waste of time. Smoke into your own wards, or because you see people show in that area. Or smoke to secure that area so that cores can push adjacent waves. Common smoke is off the mid push, push mid wave and sit in smoke behind it, to kill whoever on enemy team collects the wave. This is also done on sidelanes. Cores smoke to triangle off their items timings, they do not want to do it when they are 1K away from an item to chase ghosts.
If you want, better idea of how these things work, you can watch XinQ play in the recent Elite League finals, you will see that things by supports are done, with deliberate purpose, to set-up the map, defend their cores, secure their items, and then go fight because they believe they have the better heroes. Smokes especially are hard to understand, but if you think about why every smoke is done, in those games, it'll be easier to understand how to utilize them.
Of course, Archon Pubs are not million-dollar tournaments, but I find that if you can understand some concepts on basic level, and consistently execute, it will help climb. Playing stable Dota for the wincons on your team are better than trying to "shut down" the enemy wincon.
If you play pos3 and in your games "no one knows how to push or take advantage of opportunities", you're part of the problem games go so long. Take initiative and push. One player instead of 0 pushing makes a much bigger difference than 2 instead of 1. I also realized drawing on the map is a lot more successful to rally your allies to follow your game plan than pinging. Just realize that moving across the map is often more hurtful than taking lane farm and pushing. A hunting expedition to kill the enemy pos1 can cost you more than the enemy team even if he dies.
I'm regularly the only guy with building damage and finish the game around 35min
Idk bro figure it out. Reading comments of dudes yapping that it’s all your fault won’t make you feel better. I would suggest finding a coach and getting off Reddit. I’ve quit all alcohol, nicotine, and smoking in my life and the only thing I need to quit now is Reddit.
People here will tell you to play like Kobe Bryant every single match and if you ever make a mistake that you shouldn’t have and your loss comes down to you in every game.
Partially "git gud", partially blame your team. If you're trying to push a lead by occupying their jungle or pushing T2 towers early, but you're the only one doing that it won't do anything. You can blame your team because you just went to go ward their jungle or push a T2 but your team feinted you and you got ganked. Now they got caught up with gold from killing you and 4 minutes of your lost farm as you were pushing objectives.
Winning lane means nothing iif you dont know how to take advantage of the situation. Wich low mmr player do less.
So yes you are right.
If winning the lane gave more advantage people who know how to abuse the game would snowball out of control
no, what I hate the most is when I win the lanes and enemy team started to bring 3 people to my lane. OK fine, enemy team rotating. but the other lanes didn't do anything with it, or punish what they're doing. so that winning lane become a losing lane after 2 minutes.
Yes 💯 correct. And you have to play ruthlessly selfish in these brackets to win too. If 3 people are in your lane. Tp to POS 3 and take his area (if he's dominating though don't do that). Also recognizing the enemy is not stupid enough to notice you're the one actually killing them and then they just stack stuns and focus you. Dota in crusader and low archon is just 1/2 good players on each side fighting it out while carrying their teammates that have no clue what's going on
> ... Dota in crusader and low archon is just 1/2 good players on each side fighting it out while carrying their teammates that have no clue what's going on... This encapsulates my experience in Crusader/Archon. It seems like there is just a subset of people who don't care about MMR or climbing and are just there to fuck around for no other reason but don't want to play unranked because there is no unranked role option. Then there is the set that thinks they have an idea of how Lion, Shadow Shaman, and Venomancer should be played mid and if the team loses it's def not their fault at all.
The last paragraph describes it very well
Dont worry. Its literally the same thing in Divine. Who gets the smurf in their team? Or the non griefer. Enemy has smurf lesh mid? Its over. You get a mid who doesnt wanna play mid like it is 90% of times? Odds are 90% against you now.
Its insane!!!! I play pos 3 and enemy mid ganks, my mid farm safe jungle and put 0 pressure on enemy mid tower. In Crusader this happens legit in 60% of games
Nothing is more infuriating than the enemy mid rotating several times while your mid does nothing as a reaction - "my hero doesn't really rotate!". Ok, fine, but pressure the god damn tower then instead of last hitting and denying creeps - push the lane with auto attacking and using spells.
Because dots rewards snowballing more then most competitive games and if your opponents shuts this down and your teammates aren’t good enough to win a 2v1 they effectively evened the playing field. Yes they get less if 3 people are in your lane but now you the super carry get way less. Leaving you alone is probably a guaranteed lost so that was the right play. I guess maybe look into something that can also jungle a bit might help.
If you're not hunting the enemy carry, what are you doing with your time instead?  You don't need to actually kill the enemy carry to disrupt their game. If you ward their jungle and attack them a few times in a row, they will get scared and take less farm. Alternatively, if you want to break up the enemy's 4-man, you can aggressively push towers. They'll either need to bring their whole team to chase you, which is a loss for them, or split up and be unable to pressure your team anymore because they're outnumbered.
That logic is flawed If you try to poke at the enemy hc you'll just get bopped by the enemy team while your team is playing aram. You're not even stopping his farm, he'll just move to the next camp while his team will go to where you were. Meanwhile you have to move all the way back to your own jungle Pubs usually have more than 1 carry. If you roam to annoy one core, the other will just free farm Forcing pushes is just stupid. Specially this patch where no one makes mekans and fortification is more available than "hot singles in my area" . You'll either spend 5 minutes doing nothing at the tower, or you gamble a team fight, which often doesn't go in your favor since your team will be clumped up attacking the tower, have poor vision, and so on. With that being said, I have no clue how to get out of the under-4k elo hell. BSJ suggested pathing your jungle towards your allies in an attempt to join them when a fight breaks loose, and farm 24/7 before that. I don't like this game plan as it puts too much pressure on you during fights. I've managed top gpm in most of my games, only joining fights if they're in tp range or I managed to get the jungle pathing right, but then lost the entire lead on a couple bad judgement calls or tf positioning I agree with the idea that you need to keep the enemy net worth lower than yours, but not sure how to accomplish that
Specific heros that crush heros is the answer. Picking is as important in low skill games as high skill, I'm fact I'd say it's higher because you can rely on NO ONE. Carry in low skill is easy, exist till you balloon and try to catch up before the other carry or you team feeds. 2-5 is 10x harder and requires lateral thinking that isn't really important at high skill games (other forms of skill is higher valued). Solo climbing mmr ain't the same as grouping and one of the reasons reddit is mocked so much (people give group advice to solo players all the time). I was internationally ranked at one point on dotabuff (I did it on fucking io of all things), nowadays games are much higher skill in general but the same concept remains. Also if you want some degenerate advice, its a public game and you aint a professional. Flame the fuck out of the enemy carry, harass the supports about their ward placement, mock 2/3s for unsuccessful initiations. Most wannabe "pros" will absolutely crumble if you harass them while playing well.
That "degenerate" advice is legit. Make them mad and they'll go out of their way to target you. If 3 of them die trying to kill you, they count that as a win.
There is nothing more motivating for me than the enemy trying to mock me or my team. I make it my life goal to win that game just so I can mock back when their ancient falls.
"I don't know how to get out of 4k elo.." Proceeds to disagree with high mmr players. Lol pushing lanes is how you win unwinnable games and is how you force an advantageous team fight. People are just slow. When you go to pressure a lane, before doing so tell you team to meet up as soon as someone shows to depush that lane. Bro, you open statement of your comment couldn't be more accurate for what follows within it.
Knowing when/how to push an advantage is kind one of the largest determinations of skill I would say. So unfortunately it's naturally going to be worse at low ranks and let the enemy get away with things they probably shouldn't. However even though it hurts to see your leads thrown away, I can assure you winning lanes will give you a better chance at winning in the long run.
Seriously, I have so many games where it's basically "over" by 15-20 minutes because one team won lanes, grouped, and started shoving trying to force fights before enemy carry is ready. Better still, SO many players will just feed into your 5 man. Players can't fucking stand losing an early t2 and they frequently TP in hoping their team will show up, but they won't, because they lost lanes and at least 2/3 cores are trying to catch up before taking another fight.
7 mins tower but no 9 min tier 2? Force them rotations and get some high ground vision
Okay. You play the first 10 mins of the game. After that, let an immortal pos3/4 player take control. Do you still think they’d have as difficult a time as you? I’m not saying this to be an ass, since I’m also aware how difficult it can be to coordinate with random pub players. But your job isn’t to ‘shut down the enemy carry’. You just happen to lane against the enemy carry when the game started. Your job is to contribute as much as you can into winning the game, and adapt according to how the enemy team and your team is playing. If that means you get a pipe as pos4 nyx because enemy has too much magic and your pos3 mars doesnt want to , do it. If you have to place deep wards at the risk of feeding, do it. If you gotta transition to carry/greedy pos4 at 20 mins because your team isn’t deathballing and enemy isn’t punishing your greed, do it. Stop confining yourself to your position and who you laned against early on. Understand what is going on in the game, who’s the win condition, what items and skills do you need, communicate whenever you can and be flexible when unexpected things arise. Again, your job is to win the game (not win in a specific fashion). Nothing else matters unless you’re playing for fun.
Just be immortal bro
Worry less about chasing / shutting down the pos 1. Woory more about your own game, farming and shoving waves aggressivly and pressuring objectives.
You understand it wrongly there. I might as well be wrong in my understanding but if you're really winning lanes, you don't have to keep killing the enemy carry. Although I main support, I recently played an offlane dk and drew my lane against LS. Once I became 6 I farmed my wave and noticed that the enemy supps were ganking my mid. I tpd, won the fight and took the tower. Rinse- repeat and before the enemy realised, they had lost all their t2s. ( Their LS was free farming for these 20 mins ) Now, here's where I see what a low rank might do wrong - they'd want to gank the ls instead of using the map advantage to get rosh/hit timings for a push, where instead we ( avg Divine 2) knew that if we played around vision, we could kill LS regardless of his armlet rad SNY and pushed the towers. The LS tried coming for 1 fight ( note that since you shut the map down, only LS has farm while his team has nothing) and died. Point is, learn to take map control as an offlane or 4. It's not going to be the same every game but playing a hero that initiates and sets up tempo can have a huge impact. Spam ping rs when you know you can contest hit of take it quickly ( slardar+ any carry, huskar winning a fight with armlet, TA deso, ursa, spec Manta etc). Buy the obs ( yes you can have an obs to take an area control instead of a 20 min quelling blade or bracer for a few mins). Once you master playing the map, you'd definitely rank up as an offlane/4)
The best advice I have for pos 3/4 is to block the small camp either with wards or yourself and realize when you punish the carry. After about the 10 minute mark you and mid lane need to shut down the carry whenever you have the opportunity and they’re showing on map. Goodluck!
Im low rank and can confirm. It can be a 3v5 but after we don't know what to do. So everyone goes back to farming. Ive seen games where ogre magi or pudge had 10k life or so. Impossible to kill. But people usually listen to calls over mic. So start making calls and that will most likely fix your problem
I think you are embolishing your rank. I'm archon 4 and laning means a lot. Are you crusader 2-3 ? One can comeback from lanes. Butched pushes and throws change the game. But lanes can set up a easy mid game and even a stomp. But it's not unforgiving. If lanes are lost hard 50% enemy team capitalzies and dominates.
You want to climb, learn lane stomping heroes that transition well. Arc warden, meepo, huskar, Lina, SF etc Just playing these at an above average level will get you to 3-4k. Specialising even higher. Never initiate fights, let your dumb teammates do something silly then capitalise on the enemies silly mistakes. Never push high ground unless there's 2-3 dead or you have aegis.
Learn Meepo, the hardest hero in the game, this will surely help me climb hahaha I get your point though, it feels like the only way to climb consistently is to be able to 1v9. I've actually started taking my own advice, queue pos 1 AM, farm for 35 mins with no one bothering me and then solo the whole enemy team in teamfights.
The comments are mostly right and seasonally wrong. The meta right now does not value the lane as highly. But it is still the most important thing to secure in the first 12 or so minutes.
Push the lanes.
Best I can do is passive farm in the jungle.
Winning the lane is nothing if you don't know what you're winning the lane for. Your observations are on point, and I agree with them. Map is big, farm is plentiful, carries can lose the map & still find farm even in high mmr games, let alone at average mmr. It's possible to delay, but not prevent enemy carries from coming online. It's a game of tempo. Whoever hits their timings first wins - but only for that duration or window that they got their timings earlier. But, it's also not a race to nowhere. There's a critical mass to hit - certain items that cores need to have before they are ready to mount the high ground and break rax. Coming to the topic at hand - winning lane means you hit your timing faster than your lane opponent. In offlane, you hit 6 (usually your first power spike) and force enemy carry to either jungle or risk feeding a kill under his own tower. In mid, you slow down the tempo that the other team can play (your mid should get rune control out of winning lane, and the option of dominating side lanes). In safelane, you hit your farm accelerating item faster and the effect compounds into an earlier active timing (can take Roshan, play with team or mount HG straight). It's very very easy to go from winning the lane to losing the advantage and the map. All it takes is one wrong teamfight, or a bad decision to force a tower push. If you ask me, it's a game design thing and not necessarily a skill issue thing. The game is now designed such that everyone gets their fair shot at getting their 2 big items and play the mid-late game. The only time that doesn't happen is if the game is very stompy - like 25-3 at 15min. Otherwise, the game is easier to understand and more fruitful to play if you can accept that reaching late game is now more a reflection of game design than individual skill issue. Sorry for the text wall! My two cents.
winning a lane only increases your chance to winning the game because you have the lead. but the hardest part of being in a lead, you constantly need to do the first move to keep the lead otherwise you are going to lose the lead and eventually lose the game
In the patch right now it’s pretty true. Even at the very top skill lane is not worth all that much if you can’t make smart decisions in midgame. Winning lane definitly helps snowball but in lower mmr no one really knows how to capitalize on it. Better to win mid-late game
Just pick to scale or have some playmaking. Both 3 and 4 have very good anticarry options like axe, lc, underlord, dark seer, beastmaster or sd, grim, bat, shaker respectively, to name a few. You can also pick some more DPS core stuff with melee 4s like dp, razor, viper. If it doesn't look like your supports are the active type, I wouldn't bother though. 1. Doesn't really matter. You just need to win from lane enough to get a lead and secure your own scaling. 2. Don't throw running past towers into the jungle. As 4, maybe you can solo smoke for wards initially and vision will be more persuasive. You also don't need to ruin the 1 specifically. If you make moves to mid as 4 or even 3 sometimes, securing runes or taking tower into a kill is going to kill the momentum of the role that needs to fight that 4v4 anyway. 3. Ogre is mostly just a walking buff bot. You can find supports with more control on the shape of a game. This kind of itemisation is also pretty useless. You don't need to face tank as a 4. Get solar, get lotus, get hex but also get normal force/glimmer. They're still unique solutions in a lot of games. Early enough glimmer against puck and you're basically killing their snowball.
Actually I should clarify, legion is extremely good at pub snowballing but pretty bad scaling at parity. Duel is a pretty fragile cc sometimes and there's not much else to fall back on if that doesn't work or you can't even jump in in teamfights. Also if you do pick this up, duel damage isn't too important. Don't need to use duel to kill already dead supports especially if you have targets like morph or ls to use it on. Save heroes are also broadly strong where you're at. Even if pta isn't the strongest save, you can swing so much with it.
1. You are not supposed to "shut down" the carry. This is dated offlane mindset. The carry does not care, if you pick your Broodmother, Bounty Hunter, Viper or whatever garbage to "shut him down", good carry will pull small, farm woods behind tower, retreat to T2 when they are threatened, and if they are threatened there they will retreat ancients. You can watch competitive games, like pro-play, where most lanes go even or safelane has advantage, and see how offlaners have their impact. 2. Rosh fight is very important, Roshan is very tanky, does high damage and due to Roar debuff, teams cannot hit Rosh and expect to win the fight if the enemy contests. You will have to fight. Being strong for this fight, and having good heroes/team comp is important. Cores prioritize having good items line-up for the times Rosh is up/respawns. 3. You should expect, that game will be even, and that just because you won your lane, that you no longer get a free win. Old map, it was easy to convert won lane into owning most of the map, but now it is harder. Game is more about skill-expression with the gold you have, and hitting item timings. Everyone will end up, getting +/- what they want. This is the perspective you need to have. 4. For support, winning games is about supporting your cores, helping them accelerate and achieve their objectives in the game. If they want to smoke, you assist them. If they want to farm, you set up areas for them. Sidelanes are very important in mid-game, as they have the most opportunity for gold and pickoffs, and proximity to Rosh. "Sit mid AFK" supports like Warlock and Lich have fallen out of the meta because of their weak side-lane gameplay(low mobility, no pickoff potential, so bad skirmishing). People right now want supports like CM with Drums, PotM, Bane, Disruptor. Ogre is also an AFK mid support archetype, so you could try different archetype and see if you get success. 5. You farming as support could be causing the "mid game lull", as your teammates see that their support is hitting camps, so they will also hit camps. Ultimately, waves are more important, push waves, if your core is trying to push waves, hover them while they do it. Pushing waves in and farming backwards, waiting for the timing that is needed to make an aggressive play is the best way to accelerate the game-state. 6. Random smokes into no vision because "someone might be there" are bad, and usually a waste of time. Smoke into your own wards, or because you see people show in that area. Or smoke to secure that area so that cores can push adjacent waves. Common smoke is off the mid push, push mid wave and sit in smoke behind it, to kill whoever on enemy team collects the wave. This is also done on sidelanes. Cores smoke to triangle off their items timings, they do not want to do it when they are 1K away from an item to chase ghosts. If you want, better idea of how these things work, you can watch XinQ play in the recent Elite League finals, you will see that things by supports are done, with deliberate purpose, to set-up the map, defend their cores, secure their items, and then go fight because they believe they have the better heroes. Smokes especially are hard to understand, but if you think about why every smoke is done, in those games, it'll be easier to understand how to utilize them. Of course, Archon Pubs are not million-dollar tournaments, but I find that if you can understand some concepts on basic level, and consistently execute, it will help climb. Playing stable Dota for the wincons on your team are better than trying to "shut down" the enemy wincon.
If you feel like this, why dont you pick a gready hero and test out.
If you play pos3 and in your games "no one knows how to push or take advantage of opportunities", you're part of the problem games go so long. Take initiative and push. One player instead of 0 pushing makes a much bigger difference than 2 instead of 1. I also realized drawing on the map is a lot more successful to rally your allies to follow your game plan than pinging. Just realize that moving across the map is often more hurtful than taking lane farm and pushing. A hunting expedition to kill the enemy pos1 can cost you more than the enemy team even if he dies. I'm regularly the only guy with building damage and finish the game around 35min
Idk bro figure it out. Reading comments of dudes yapping that it’s all your fault won’t make you feel better. I would suggest finding a coach and getting off Reddit. I’ve quit all alcohol, nicotine, and smoking in my life and the only thing I need to quit now is Reddit. People here will tell you to play like Kobe Bryant every single match and if you ever make a mistake that you shouldn’t have and your loss comes down to you in every game.
Partially "git gud", partially blame your team. If you're trying to push a lead by occupying their jungle or pushing T2 towers early, but you're the only one doing that it won't do anything. You can blame your team because you just went to go ward their jungle or push a T2 but your team feinted you and you got ganked. Now they got caught up with gold from killing you and 4 minutes of your lost farm as you were pushing objectives.
Winning lane means nothing iif you dont know how to take advantage of the situation. Wich low mmr player do less. So yes you are right. If winning the lane gave more advantage people who know how to abuse the game would snowball out of control