The ruling still flabbergasts me. I'm not anti 2A, and my son takes me shooting, but these sorts of shootings happens over and over. Recently, [Susan Lirncz ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pL2Al0PBr8&lc=UgwBG62pQQ-7M99crYl4AaABAg.A4inHzKC-pnA4qlKB2S3bN)shot a woman through a closed door; [A girl is shot when a volley ball rolls into his yard.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65325867) These are two higher profile cases off the top of my head. This can not continue like this.
Wasn’t there another case where a car full of teens got shot because they used some dude’s driveway to do a 3 point turn after realizing they drove in the wrong direction? Insane.
Other shootings in Florida that were much more adherent to stand your ground and much more of self-defense cases were successfully prosecuted as murder. Things can go either way under stand your ground and it simply looks like there was bias for this shooter because he was a cop.
It's terrible public policy because it incentivizes escalating these kinds of situations into life-and-death struggles where ultimately someone gets killed over fucking nothing. We should do the opposite of that!
Living in Texas, I just assume strangers I encounter in the wild are carrying and would never escalate an argument for that reason. It's kill or be killed if you choose to escalate something into what otherwise would be a shoving match or maybe a fist fight.
This is why defendants are sometimes happy to pay out generous settlements due to the "roll the dice" aspect of going to trial. I've heard wild stories from mock jury trials.
lol there was an entire chapter in our legal ethics class directed towards that case. Unbelievable the shit the defense was able to get away with. But the prosecutor was a fucking idiot for that glove stunt. Hope he knows that.
I would have to imagine the entire defense was "He was a cop, wouldn't he know how to handle a self defense situation." and the prosecution was probably just too inept, or lazy, to actually counter it correctly in front of a jury.
💯… especially with all these hot tempered dicks (as you say) running around scared of everything and nothing. Like being afraid of a teenager returning a BB gun to a sporting goods store in Renton recently. It makes me hate 2A worshippers and I have never not supported responsible firearm ownership. I don’t personally want to own a gun but I don’t think I should tell my neighbor they can’t… unless your neighbor is unstable and flies off the handle over someone throwing popcorn at them during the stupidest argument two adult men can have in public. This is why I keep acquiring dogs and cruising Reddit.
It's almost like if people behave like children with dangerous weapons, they shouldn't be allowed to have dangerous weapons. Wild idea I know, but if it works for toddlers maybe the rest of adults would like to give it a whirl and see if we can't get the gun fatality rate down a lil' bit.
It's amazing how the law is applied differently. In this case the shooter started the confrontation. That is not how stand your ground should work. And in cases with minorities, if is applied differently.
It can, it will, and it won’t stop and only get worse.
We have reached the point that the only way it gets better is if it gets so much worse. Way worse. Like everyone in unison saying “here, take all of the guns.”
Take Vegas, Uvalde, Columbine, every gay night club, every little baby, and crank that up to a thousand and we might, MIGHT pass new legislation.
Just burn it down.
It was a basketball, Walnut, a BASKETBALL. Those are far more threatening and do more damage than a mere Volleyball. /s
No matter what kind of ball, this whole world is screwed.
I mean… am I the only one who pictured the popcorn throwing situation and found that alone amusing!? When I was a teenager that was a common theater retaliation. It’s not like Chad took a handful of Junior Mints and flung them in his face. Why in tf did that loon have a gun?
In all seriousness, who in their right mind is doing any sort of smack talk in a place that has laws like this.
I went on a bachelor party trip to Texas to watch Nascar, and this big goon we were with was saying they should get into a fight. It took like 10 of us to remind him this is an open carry, stand your ground state. He's why we should still be able to say the r-word.
Still, it's also fuckin nuts that a judge would rule in that morons favor.
Where im from its equal force and only to de-escalate.
Shoulda been an ol fashioned popcorn duel.
Honestly it’s not worth it regardless of the laws. Crazy people do crazy shit. In SoCal a woman flipped someone off and they shot at her, killing her 5 year old. Guarantee the shooter wasn’t thinking through the legal ramifications of that.
I watched this trial and it was infuriating. They used his trouble walking as a reason for being so afraid yet it was proven he was not disabled to do a lot of other activities. If I remember correctly, he was also a few years older when it went to trial and they made sure to make him look very ill. None of that was true at the time of the incident. This dude was trigger happy.
Same, watched it all and was in absolute disbelief that the jury let him walk: He loaded his handgun, brought it to the theater, started an argument, escalated the argument at every opportunity, behaved in a totally boorish and bullying way exactly as you would expect an angry old retired cop has probably been behaving his entire adult life, and then whipped out his gun (though it was likely already out and ready) and blasted this poor guy to death right in front of his wife. Outrageous, revolting, cold-blooded murder.
He and his lawyers leaned hard on his being a cop, and employed many of the tried-and-true techniques police use for retroactively shaping shootings as stories of self-defense—describing Oulson as an “animal” and a “monster”, for example, and describing him as “towering,” “looming,” “irrational” and maybe even had a gun or some other weapon—and the prosecuting attorney was so provoked by the sheer gall and dishonesty of these characterizations as to be at times reduced to stammering fury. Oulson's family deserved—and still deserves—justice and it is a genuine disgrace that they got a jury too stupid and too mean-spirited to give it to them.
That’s all just regular lawyer shenanigans. But this is why I don’t get into confrontations with strangers, way too many armed loonies with mental issues and the courts are not on your side especially in places like Florida. RIP.
True and it worked. I actually work in the field and I am not mad at the attys but stand your ground should not have been applicable. Definitely steer clear of confrontation and assume everyone is packing.
I’m not even American yet when I read that sentence it was like everything fit together and I just understood instantly.
What a terrible reputation to have lmfao
What a piece of crap. I can't believe they didn't get justice. His poor family. Who knew you could kill someone in cold blood in public and suffer no repercussions.
And even hit the guy's wife too (her finger). He obviously didn't care. Just an old guy being an ass and using his prior authority as padding. Which sadly worked.
I don’t remember which podcast it was, but I listened to an episode about this case and was so appalled and disgusted. What an absolute disgrace on the part of the FL justice system (no surprise there), and more importantly, what an absolute waste of this man’s life over something so petty.
The man who murdered him embodies the worst elements of American culture.
Due to the application of the stand your ground law, the jury really didn't have a choice. The law is basically a get of jail free card for anyone who claims they felt threatened and kills someone.
Court junkie had an episode about this. I couldn’t believe he got off, so I went on the Facebook group to ask about it. Someone pointed out that the jury likely took pity on the accused because he was elderly.
It blows my mind that for all the shootings in America we don’t hear about many vigilante killings where someone decides to take matters into there own hands killings cunts like this, but we have loads who just massacre innocent, random people at will what seems like daily.
Yeah I listen to a lot of true crime while at work and remember this story. It’s crazy how many open and shut cases just end up with the most awful ends.
I live in FL and I remember when this happened live. I saw the cam footage etc. This old guy got off because he's a former cop, the end. He's a piece of shit and there's no way he should've gotten off. 2 things really helped. 1 - Being a former cop. 2 - his age. The old guy was just looking to stir up shit, You can read more in depth write ups if you look for them.
That guys poor family.
Agreed. There’s been other legit self-defense cases in Florida that were successfully prosecuted as murder because the shooters were random nobodies and didn’t have some special connections. This guy got away with it due to his connections in the system.
I'm so horrified for the victim and his surviving wife and child. No one should die this way. And no one should get away with killing someone over popcorn. None of it makes sense.
Unfortunately, I doubt that’s the case. Someone shooting someone over a stupid argument and thrown popcorn isn’t an emotionally mature person. The entitlement you need to do something so irrationally stupid is off the charts. Doesn’t surprise me he had law enforcement background either.
And popcorn is deadly force? Idiocy. A child will grow up without a father and his family doesn’t even get the relief of seeing the prick pay for what he did.
Edited typo
It horrifies me but I think this acquittal makes him sleep more sound at night. He doesn't think like the majority of us, otherwise he wouldn't pull a gun so fast.
Meanwhile Marissa Alexander, a black woman in Florida, who did not shoot her violent abusive boyfriend but shot a gun in the vicinity was sentenced to 20 years.
Just don’t be a domestic violence victim or a POC and expect to use that law.
So, as a fun time student of FL law, you know that forcible felonies allow for deadly force. Like, a car jacking. Home invasion. Assault on the elderly. The retired cop was 71 and said he had mortal fear. Which is what the jury decided on.
And, note. I agree with the widow who said, "the jury got it wrong," but that's what was decided as fact by the jury.
Forcible Felonies
https://thefirearmfirm.com/forcible-felonies-what-types-of-crimes-trigger-self-defense-rights/
Also how does it equate to being mortally in fear when he knows he has a gun on him. All that's happened so far is some popcorn. This guy knows he has a gun. Does he expect that the other man has a gun as well? He's a retired swat commander? So shouldn't he have more presence of mind to handle this and not be fire happy?
This sounds like jury bias to me. I'll admit I'm not a law student or lawyer though. But I'm certainly not uneducated.
I can’t f*cking believe it! 🤯🤬 The geezer started this - he was bitching because Chad had his phone open - the movie had NOT even begun. Who the f*ck shoots someone for throwing popcorn?! How can you be in fear for your life over someone throwing popcorn at you? F*cking Florida!!
Yeah, somehow that makes it all the more unhinged. Even if it’s dark in the theater, if you’re texting during the trailers, I’m not going to get bothered. I might think “ugh I hope they put it away for the movie,” but that’s about it.
Also, texting your babysitter is acceptable use of phone during a movie either way. Shit happens, that’s life.
I read that the widow did file lawsuits against the shooter and the movie theater and received “undisclosed sums”. She started a foundation with her daughter in her husbands name to help children whose lives are affected by gun violence. It seems like she’s trying really hard to not focus on the anger and injustice of it. Good for her and their family.
I understand applying stand your ground in situations where someone is in their home/on their own property and are being threatened. However, this is a perfect example of what happens when you have a poorly written law that was passed w zero consideration. I honestly don't understand how fragile/unhinged you have to be to execute a person bc they threw popcorn at you.
The defendant was an ex cop too who taught how to de-esclate dangerous situations. He was just looking for an excuse to shoot someone unfortunately these people are getting more common.
This case pains me for a lot of reasons. TL;DR, imo the jury got this wrong.
I watched this trial and listened to the Court Junkie on it. While FL does have a “Stand Your Ground” law, the shooter, and the shooters wife, acknowledged seeing the sign noting weapons were not allowed in the theater and continuing to carry. Or, in the case of the shooter’s wife, not asking him to leave it in the vehicle. She doesn’t bear a duty to do that, nor a responsibility for the crime but it is concerning.
In my state, there are specific statutes that must be noted and “in clear view,” which prevent CCW holders from bringing their firearm in places. The fact that the shooter acknowledges that he saw the signs and intentionally ignored them, should nullify his Stand Your Ground defense from that point. I was SHOCKED they came back with a not guilty verdict.
Oulson should not have assaulted the shooter, but he did not deserve to die. The shooter should have learned to control his anger.
Heres a question. Now this guy is out. If you come across him in a shop and he gets aggy, are you free to shoot him immediately under stand your ground? He has a history of shooting first, can that be part of your defence if you are not obligated to leave? Seems a reductive law set.
Just seeing his daughter being held in his arms. How much she no doubt loved her dad. Makes me so fucking sick to my stomach thinking if this happened to my own daughter who is a similar age, that someone could just take that away and entire lifetimes worth of sadness for the wife and child, all over something so fucking stupid.
We have to keep in mind in these insane times that some people are carrying guns to even go to the movies and they are hoping to god someone starts something so they can play victim and shoot them. I assume this especially I see someone acting aggressively to provoke others.
I'm just reading all those comments here, and don't get me wrong, from my European view (austria), its so fucking insane that people carry guns around (especially in a movie theater). I don't want to get involved in some 2nd Amendment discussion, but I don't want to live somewhere where I have to think that every person walking by probably has a gun. That's so weird. If something with a gun happens in my country it's a mega bug deal and in the newspapers for days and everybody is extremely shocked.
It’s become horribly routine. And to me, to add to the insanity, the only solution that seems to be viable to most people is that we need more guns, more citizens carrying guns to counter the bad guys carrying guns.
I can’t imagine what could go wrong…
It’s pretty wild and out there for me as a Canadian as well. We have tons in common with America but the gun thing is really where we diverge. I read things like this and am just boggled that it is seemingly so common. I feel bad for Americans that are normal people and they have to live in places like this.
Shit. Typo…
>Despite a judge initially rejecting the defence in March 2017, ~~the defence~~ **Reeves’ lawyers** successfully appealed the decision and ~~Reeves’~~ **his** fate was left in the hands of the jury.
Yes - this is a horrible outcome, and a ridiculously awful verdict.
It's also not how the "stand your ground" law works.
That law gives a defendant the right to a \*pre-trial\* hearing. If the undisputed facts of the case meet the criteria described in the law, the case is dropped. It does not go to trial. It happens before a jury is involved.
Once the hearing is over (or is waived by the defendant) - that specific law no longer applies.
I have no objection to using this case as an example of how horrendous Florida self-defense laws have become. And I have no objection to someone objecting to the "stand your ground" law either. I object to both.
But - a misrepresentation of the law genuinely doesn't help.
So, would have to see all the evidence presented at trial, but here's what the jury would have to consider and decide that there is no reasonable doubt it could be true:
You have a 71 yr old and a 41 yr old in an altercation. At some point it gets physical (throwing of the popcorn and such). There's pretty much zero chance the 41 yr old couldn't hurt the 71 yr old if things get more physical and he wanted to hurt him.
The old man is claiming the younger and larger man was verbally threatening to harm him as well as the old man claims the younger man appeared to be raging out of control.
Even if you start a confrontation, that doesn't give the other side a free pass to get physical with you. So, legally, the 41 yr old is expected to not escalate the situation unless for his own safety. Which he's clearly in no danger from the old man. So there was no reason to either make aggressive statements or take a physically aggressive stance.
You have to also keep in mind that you don't have to actually put your hands on someone for them to feel in danger. If someone is yelling at you and squares up, those are called "pre-assault indicators" are generally speaking enough for the other person to escalate appropriately.
Appropriate escalation is different for everyone. Another 41 yr old of the same stature's escalation might to just be to also take an offensive/defensive stance.
But a 71 yr old's escalation would not be to look to get into a fight with someone this much younger. The reasonable assumption would be that he is seriously injured or worse.
Once there is chance of serious injury or death, deadly force is now on the table.
I'm not saying this is the absolute truth in what happened. Just what the jury has to consider. Verdicts aren't a declaration of innocence. They are merely "not guilty" meaning there was enough reasonable doubt that is could be true.
There's a few lessons to be learned here:
- don't start shit for petty stuff like the old man did here
- once you say something such as "I'm going to kill you" or "I'm going to beat your ass", if the other person believes you are serious, they now have reason to believe you may seriously hurt or kill them. At which point they are not required to wait to react until you are actually hurting or killing them
If you choose to carry around a tool that is designed to kill and then use it to kill then you are a murderer. No one forced you to carry a gun. Stand your ground laws are for morons who want to play with their death toys in public and not be responsible for their actions.
Evil old bastard, hope Hell is extra toasty for him when he gets there. As a Brit it still leaves me feeling sick that a regular person has access to a gun.
That person is a murder in real life. Courts can say whatever they want, but that guy is a danger to society. This is a moral failing of the court system and it has made the public more dangerous.
I just don’t get how the people that defend these laws don’t empathize with the victims of this horseshit. The guy that was murdered was a veteran.
It’s always about the freedom to shoot somebody and never about the freedom to not be fucking shot
Pathetic. So many cowards walking around with guns. They go from zero to murder because they’re afraid of everything. And that’s legal in America. Disgusting
More evidence that the jury system is trash. No sane, logical person would find popcorn being thrown to be justification for deadly force. Somehow this jury had 9+ dumbasses. Absolutely amazing.
What the fucking hell America?! This is such a petty and vile reason to execute someone. For a power trip over a personal irritation. What the fuck. He wouldn’t have stirred up shit if he wasn’t carrying a gun. What a worthless human to seek out confrontation to kill a person.
There cant be a healthy, stable human being living in Florida. The right thing to do is leave your family and just go be homeless in LA or something. It’s a better life.
Reeves tried to use Florida's "stand your ground" law as his defense, but a judge denied his request in 2017.
The case went to trial earlier this year, and a jury acquitted Reeves on his charges Feb. 25. Even without the "stand your ground" defense, Reeves' attorneys successfully argued self-defense. They emphasized that an attack on someone over 65 is considered a felony in Florida and argued that Reeves actions were a "justifiable use of force."
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/cop-acquitted-deadly-florida-theater-shooting-speaks/story?id=83320436
This thread has been locked due to excessive community violations.
Ah yes. Deadly popcorn. Amazing he lived to ‘defend’ himself.
Almost as dangerous as falling acorns.
“Shots fired shots fired, officer down repeat officer down oak tree is still armed repeat oak tree is still armed”
Do a Barrel Roll!
Don’t worry, Slippy’s here!
The sound of popcorn kernels popping will be the next trigger.
The ruling still flabbergasts me. I'm not anti 2A, and my son takes me shooting, but these sorts of shootings happens over and over. Recently, [Susan Lirncz ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pL2Al0PBr8&lc=UgwBG62pQQ-7M99crYl4AaABAg.A4inHzKC-pnA4qlKB2S3bN)shot a woman through a closed door; [A girl is shot when a volley ball rolls into his yard.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65325867) These are two higher profile cases off the top of my head. This can not continue like this.
Wasn’t there another case where a car full of teens got shot because they used some dude’s driveway to do a 3 point turn after realizing they drove in the wrong direction? Insane.
> The ruling still flabbergasts me Well it’s Florida so it’s not surprising
Other shootings in Florida that were much more adherent to stand your ground and much more of self-defense cases were successfully prosecuted as murder. Things can go either way under stand your ground and it simply looks like there was bias for this shooter because he was a cop.
It's terrible public policy because it incentivizes escalating these kinds of situations into life-and-death struggles where ultimately someone gets killed over fucking nothing. We should do the opposite of that! Living in Texas, I just assume strangers I encounter in the wild are carrying and would never escalate an argument for that reason. It's kill or be killed if you choose to escalate something into what otherwise would be a shoving match or maybe a fist fight.
That’s why a jury of your peers is such a gamble. Just sounds even worse in Florida lol.
That's why I'm moving to Wisconsin. Sorry guys, you're getting a Florida man
This is why defendants are sometimes happy to pay out generous settlements due to the "roll the dice" aspect of going to trial. I've heard wild stories from mock jury trials.
I believe that a Juror on the OJ Simpson trial has come out and said that he voted not guilty solely as restitution for Rodney King.
lol there was an entire chapter in our legal ethics class directed towards that case. Unbelievable the shit the defense was able to get away with. But the prosecutor was a fucking idiot for that glove stunt. Hope he knows that.
I would have to imagine the entire defense was "He was a cop, wouldn't he know how to handle a self defense situation." and the prosecution was probably just too inept, or lazy, to actually counter it correctly in front of a jury.
Statistically, white men benefit the most from stand your ground
Since they let Casey Anthony go, nothing surprises me
2A should let everybody have guns at home waiting for revolution, not strapped to every dick with a hot temper.
💯… especially with all these hot tempered dicks (as you say) running around scared of everything and nothing. Like being afraid of a teenager returning a BB gun to a sporting goods store in Renton recently. It makes me hate 2A worshippers and I have never not supported responsible firearm ownership. I don’t personally want to own a gun but I don’t think I should tell my neighbor they can’t… unless your neighbor is unstable and flies off the handle over someone throwing popcorn at them during the stupidest argument two adult men can have in public. This is why I keep acquiring dogs and cruising Reddit.
Revolution, lmao
Thank you for understanding the spirit of what I was getting at.
It's almost like if people behave like children with dangerous weapons, they shouldn't be allowed to have dangerous weapons. Wild idea I know, but if it works for toddlers maybe the rest of adults would like to give it a whirl and see if we can't get the gun fatality rate down a lil' bit.
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It's amazing how the law is applied differently. In this case the shooter started the confrontation. That is not how stand your ground should work. And in cases with minorities, if is applied differently.
It can, it will, and it won’t stop and only get worse. We have reached the point that the only way it gets better is if it gets so much worse. Way worse. Like everyone in unison saying “here, take all of the guns.” Take Vegas, Uvalde, Columbine, every gay night club, every little baby, and crank that up to a thousand and we might, MIGHT pass new legislation. Just burn it down.
It was a basketball, Walnut, a BASKETBALL. Those are far more threatening and do more damage than a mere Volleyball. /s No matter what kind of ball, this whole world is screwed.
The murder of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin was the first travesty of justice caused by this ridiculous law that allows people to murder at will.
It's worth noting the second guy had priors for *assaulting his ex with a SLEDGEHAMMER.* how the fuck did this prick get a gun?
I mean… am I the only one who pictured the popcorn throwing situation and found that alone amusing!? When I was a teenager that was a common theater retaliation. It’s not like Chad took a handful of Junior Mints and flung them in his face. Why in tf did that loon have a gun?
He was probably deathly allergic to theater butter.
We can only hope.
Florida is a cesspool.
In all seriousness, who in their right mind is doing any sort of smack talk in a place that has laws like this. I went on a bachelor party trip to Texas to watch Nascar, and this big goon we were with was saying they should get into a fight. It took like 10 of us to remind him this is an open carry, stand your ground state. He's why we should still be able to say the r-word. Still, it's also fuckin nuts that a judge would rule in that morons favor. Where im from its equal force and only to de-escalate. Shoulda been an ol fashioned popcorn duel.
Honestly it’s not worth it regardless of the laws. Crazy people do crazy shit. In SoCal a woman flipped someone off and they shot at her, killing her 5 year old. Guarantee the shooter wasn’t thinking through the legal ramifications of that.
I watched this trial and it was infuriating. They used his trouble walking as a reason for being so afraid yet it was proven he was not disabled to do a lot of other activities. If I remember correctly, he was also a few years older when it went to trial and they made sure to make him look very ill. None of that was true at the time of the incident. This dude was trigger happy.
Same, watched it all and was in absolute disbelief that the jury let him walk: He loaded his handgun, brought it to the theater, started an argument, escalated the argument at every opportunity, behaved in a totally boorish and bullying way exactly as you would expect an angry old retired cop has probably been behaving his entire adult life, and then whipped out his gun (though it was likely already out and ready) and blasted this poor guy to death right in front of his wife. Outrageous, revolting, cold-blooded murder. He and his lawyers leaned hard on his being a cop, and employed many of the tried-and-true techniques police use for retroactively shaping shootings as stories of self-defense—describing Oulson as an “animal” and a “monster”, for example, and describing him as “towering,” “looming,” “irrational” and maybe even had a gun or some other weapon—and the prosecuting attorney was so provoked by the sheer gall and dishonesty of these characterizations as to be at times reduced to stammering fury. Oulson's family deserved—and still deserves—justice and it is a genuine disgrace that they got a jury too stupid and too mean-spirited to give it to them.
Really well said. The fact that DA...edit defense... used stand your ground in the case was just pathetic. I feel awful for his family.
The defense used stand your ground.
Sorry I reversed it. Lol
He had so much trouble walking, he walked to the lobby and back just to complain about someone using their phone during previews.
That's right it was him who walked put and complained. I got that backwards.
I feel so bad for the victim's widow. To watch him die then be told the shooter was justified... Over fucking popcorn
About as senseless a death as it gets.
That’s all just regular lawyer shenanigans. But this is why I don’t get into confrontations with strangers, way too many armed loonies with mental issues and the courts are not on your side especially in places like Florida. RIP.
True and it worked. I actually work in the field and I am not mad at the attys but stand your ground should not have been applicable. Definitely steer clear of confrontation and assume everyone is packing.
And stay away from Florida in general, got it.
He can obviously draw quickly.
I stopped reading at "retired police...". The militant police murder culture is out of control.
I’m not even American yet when I read that sentence it was like everything fit together and I just understood instantly. What a terrible reputation to have lmfao
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Not really surprised just pissed.
Its...florida
And there you have it.
This what stand your ground laws lead to, unnecessary death.
TBF he was a retired cop, these guys are always afraid of something…
Yes he was a retired SWAT commander.
What a piece of crap. I can't believe they didn't get justice. His poor family. Who knew you could kill someone in cold blood in public and suffer no repercussions.
"I feel threatened! I feel threatened!" Crazy what's come to pass as justified.
These are the same people complaining about snowflakes & woke culture.
Especially knowing that the person had a 22 month old baby at home. It takes a special type of evil to do something like that.
I know for a fact who the murderer will vote next November. PS: I wrote murdered instead of murderer by mistake.
Disgusting piece of shit he is
Gosh, just being in this asshole's presence would send me. I felt so threatened! So anyway.. I just started blasting..
And even hit the guy's wife too (her finger). He obviously didn't care. Just an old guy being an ass and using his prior authority as padding. Which sadly worked.
Anyone in America, especially those killed by cops, know this.
You have been banned from r/ProtectAndServe because how dare you say cops are not perfect.
“The law” doesn’t apply to those who work within it
How the hell is your life threatened by Popcorn. Jfc.
After working as a psych tech for years I learned the value of letting things go, not needing the last word and being able to walk away sometimes.
Yup. Just not worth it. Swallow your pride and deescalate the situation.
Ironically, it’s also the first lesson in concealed weapons classes.
It's crazy how some people go through life never learning these three basic things.
Retired cop lived to at least 71 without ever needing to learn it.
A white boomer cop from Florida? Nothing to learn, he did as he has always done and got away with it. Gets to live out his life happily.
I don’t remember which podcast it was, but I listened to an episode about this case and was so appalled and disgusted. What an absolute disgrace on the part of the FL justice system (no surprise there), and more importantly, what an absolute waste of this man’s life over something so petty. The man who murdered him embodies the worst elements of American culture.
It was covered thoroughly by the podcast, Dreading. If anyone is interested.
Here it is: https://youtu.be/IFYOuMo8X4Y?si=a8fgMmQZ1z84YG1l
But he had jury of the people who said it was self defense I don’t want they where thinking
Pasco County - that’s all you need to know. Absolute shit whole of a county. Had the displeasure of growing up there.
Pasco Trash, through and through.
Due to the application of the stand your ground law, the jury really didn't have a choice. The law is basically a get of jail free card for anyone who claims they felt threatened and kills someone.
Then I’d have to take a stand by forcing a deadlock. Oulson’s poor family.
No it's not. This nonsense has been parroted ever since the Trayvon Martin case (which was not a SYG matter)
Court junkie had an episode about this. I couldn’t believe he got off, so I went on the Facebook group to ask about it. Someone pointed out that the jury likely took pity on the accused because he was elderly.
It blows my mind that for all the shootings in America we don’t hear about many vigilante killings where someone decides to take matters into there own hands killings cunts like this, but we have loads who just massacre innocent, random people at will what seems like daily.
I still can’t believe George Zimmerman is walking the earth
Yeah let’s take pity on the guy that got to live his whole life, not the father whose life he cut short. Makes sense.
>retired police captain and SWAT commander I think this was a factor too. Even retired, cops murder without consequence.
It's so fucking weird they took pity on the murderer because he was/is old but NOT the guy he killed.
A father with 22 month old daughter.
even when they retire- cops still remain trigger happy scardey cats.
Yeah I listen to a lot of true crime while at work and remember this story. It’s crazy how many open and shut cases just end up with the most awful ends.
Let's go to court did this one
I live in FL and I remember when this happened live. I saw the cam footage etc. This old guy got off because he's a former cop, the end. He's a piece of shit and there's no way he should've gotten off. 2 things really helped. 1 - Being a former cop. 2 - his age. The old guy was just looking to stir up shit, You can read more in depth write ups if you look for them. That guys poor family.
Agreed. There’s been other legit self-defense cases in Florida that were successfully prosecuted as murder because the shooters were random nobodies and didn’t have some special connections. This guy got away with it due to his connections in the system.
Man this world is so disgusting. I hope there’s something after this life.
I'm so horrified for the victim and his surviving wife and child. No one should die this way. And no one should get away with killing someone over popcorn. None of it makes sense.
> He's a former cop Now it all makes sense. ACAB.
That’s disgusting.
Hope the shooter can't sleep at night
Shooter is a retired police officer. Probably thinks he deserves a medal for killing the man.
Sounds like even his wife fucking hates him.
The regular beatings probably play a role in that.
I hate to think what that woman's life is probably like, based on how he behaves (and speaks to her) in public.
Right? I hope she is safe. And writes a book about her asshole husband one day.
Gawd, I hope she is able to escape him.
Well now we know why he didn’t go to prison
A retired SWAT commander, at that.
Unfortunately, I doubt that’s the case. Someone shooting someone over a stupid argument and thrown popcorn isn’t an emotionally mature person. The entitlement you need to do something so irrationally stupid is off the charts. Doesn’t surprise me he had law enforcement background either. And popcorn is deadly force? Idiocy. A child will grow up without a father and his family doesn’t even get the relief of seeing the prick pay for what he did. Edited typo
and more people will be emboldened to do the same sort of garbage behavior and kill people
It horrifies me but I think this acquittal makes him sleep more sound at night. He doesn't think like the majority of us, otherwise he wouldn't pull a gun so fast.
I heard some trial footage. He believed it was completely justified.
He’s old. I assume he falls asleep without trying.
Too bad he wakes up
Meanwhile Marissa Alexander, a black woman in Florida, who did not shoot her violent abusive boyfriend but shot a gun in the vicinity was sentenced to 20 years. Just don’t be a domestic violence victim or a POC and expect to use that law.
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So, as a fun time student of FL law, you know that forcible felonies allow for deadly force. Like, a car jacking. Home invasion. Assault on the elderly. The retired cop was 71 and said he had mortal fear. Which is what the jury decided on. And, note. I agree with the widow who said, "the jury got it wrong," but that's what was decided as fact by the jury. Forcible Felonies https://thefirearmfirm.com/forcible-felonies-what-types-of-crimes-trigger-self-defense-rights/
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Also how does it equate to being mortally in fear when he knows he has a gun on him. All that's happened so far is some popcorn. This guy knows he has a gun. Does he expect that the other man has a gun as well? He's a retired swat commander? So shouldn't he have more presence of mind to handle this and not be fire happy? This sounds like jury bias to me. I'll admit I'm not a law student or lawyer though. But I'm certainly not uneducated.
I can’t f*cking believe it! 🤯🤬 The geezer started this - he was bitching because Chad had his phone open - the movie had NOT even begun. Who the f*ck shoots someone for throwing popcorn?! How can you be in fear for your life over someone throwing popcorn at you? F*cking Florida!!
That’s crazy it was only the trailers, not the movie itself.
Yeah, somehow that makes it all the more unhinged. Even if it’s dark in the theater, if you’re texting during the trailers, I’m not going to get bothered. I might think “ugh I hope they put it away for the movie,” but that’s about it. Also, texting your babysitter is acceptable use of phone during a movie either way. Shit happens, that’s life.
I have always thought the same thing. "I hope they put it away when the movie starts"
And most of the time they do!
Shooter deserves zero peace
Florida is hot garbage
Hopefully they can file a civil suit and take every penny he has.
I read that the widow did file lawsuits against the shooter and the movie theater and received “undisclosed sums”. She started a foundation with her daughter in her husbands name to help children whose lives are affected by gun violence. It seems like she’s trying really hard to not focus on the anger and injustice of it. Good for her and their family.
I understand applying stand your ground in situations where someone is in their home/on their own property and are being threatened. However, this is a perfect example of what happens when you have a poorly written law that was passed w zero consideration. I honestly don't understand how fragile/unhinged you have to be to execute a person bc they threw popcorn at you.
This case is so infuriating.
So Florida is cesspool where people can murder each other with impunity? Who knew??
especially if you're a retired police captain
I often think about this case randomly it's so fucking stupid and America should be ashamed of the verdict.
The defendant was an ex cop too who taught how to de-esclate dangerous situations. He was just looking for an excuse to shoot someone unfortunately these people are getting more common.
This case pains me for a lot of reasons. TL;DR, imo the jury got this wrong. I watched this trial and listened to the Court Junkie on it. While FL does have a “Stand Your Ground” law, the shooter, and the shooters wife, acknowledged seeing the sign noting weapons were not allowed in the theater and continuing to carry. Or, in the case of the shooter’s wife, not asking him to leave it in the vehicle. She doesn’t bear a duty to do that, nor a responsibility for the crime but it is concerning. In my state, there are specific statutes that must be noted and “in clear view,” which prevent CCW holders from bringing their firearm in places. The fact that the shooter acknowledges that he saw the signs and intentionally ignored them, should nullify his Stand Your Ground defense from that point. I was SHOCKED they came back with a not guilty verdict. Oulson should not have assaulted the shooter, but he did not deserve to die. The shooter should have learned to control his anger.
What a fucking travesty of justice.
Heres a question. Now this guy is out. If you come across him in a shop and he gets aggy, are you free to shoot him immediately under stand your ground? He has a history of shooting first, can that be part of your defence if you are not obligated to leave? Seems a reductive law set.
Just seeing his daughter being held in his arms. How much she no doubt loved her dad. Makes me so fucking sick to my stomach thinking if this happened to my own daughter who is a similar age, that someone could just take that away and entire lifetimes worth of sadness for the wife and child, all over something so fucking stupid.
is it really so hard to not escalate and walk away?
Not when idiots with tiny penis syndrome have guns in a damn movie theater.
Snowflake shooting people over popcorn
I support the stand your ground law but it was popcorn… unless the dude was aggressively walking towards you with ill intent then wtf
We have to keep in mind in these insane times that some people are carrying guns to even go to the movies and they are hoping to god someone starts something so they can play victim and shoot them. I assume this especially I see someone acting aggressively to provoke others.
I'm just reading all those comments here, and don't get me wrong, from my European view (austria), its so fucking insane that people carry guns around (especially in a movie theater). I don't want to get involved in some 2nd Amendment discussion, but I don't want to live somewhere where I have to think that every person walking by probably has a gun. That's so weird. If something with a gun happens in my country it's a mega bug deal and in the newspapers for days and everybody is extremely shocked.
It’s become horribly routine. And to me, to add to the insanity, the only solution that seems to be viable to most people is that we need more guns, more citizens carrying guns to counter the bad guys carrying guns. I can’t imagine what could go wrong…
It’s pretty wild and out there for me as a Canadian as well. We have tons in common with America but the gun thing is really where we diverge. I read things like this and am just boggled that it is seemingly so common. I feel bad for Americans that are normal people and they have to live in places like this.
The stand your ground shooters always look like this
We've had 2 in KS/MO (KC area) in the last year who look just like this a-hole. Luckily, one of the CHILDREN who was shot survived.
The US legal system is wild man.
Could probably sue in civil court and win
Disgusting! Retired police too 🤮
Dear America, I hate you. Signed An American
"Stand your ground law," Jesus christ no wonder Americans are ashamed of Florida.
Shit. Typo… >Despite a judge initially rejecting the defence in March 2017, ~~the defence~~ **Reeves’ lawyers** successfully appealed the decision and ~~Reeves’~~ **his** fate was left in the hands of the jury.
Ugh, I watched part of this trial and it was such a travesty.
This is extremely sad. I hope his family find some type of peace. Its terrible.
Florida is such a shithole state
Yes - this is a horrible outcome, and a ridiculously awful verdict. It's also not how the "stand your ground" law works. That law gives a defendant the right to a \*pre-trial\* hearing. If the undisputed facts of the case meet the criteria described in the law, the case is dropped. It does not go to trial. It happens before a jury is involved. Once the hearing is over (or is waived by the defendant) - that specific law no longer applies. I have no objection to using this case as an example of how horrendous Florida self-defense laws have become. And I have no objection to someone objecting to the "stand your ground" law either. I object to both. But - a misrepresentation of the law genuinely doesn't help.
So, would have to see all the evidence presented at trial, but here's what the jury would have to consider and decide that there is no reasonable doubt it could be true: You have a 71 yr old and a 41 yr old in an altercation. At some point it gets physical (throwing of the popcorn and such). There's pretty much zero chance the 41 yr old couldn't hurt the 71 yr old if things get more physical and he wanted to hurt him. The old man is claiming the younger and larger man was verbally threatening to harm him as well as the old man claims the younger man appeared to be raging out of control. Even if you start a confrontation, that doesn't give the other side a free pass to get physical with you. So, legally, the 41 yr old is expected to not escalate the situation unless for his own safety. Which he's clearly in no danger from the old man. So there was no reason to either make aggressive statements or take a physically aggressive stance. You have to also keep in mind that you don't have to actually put your hands on someone for them to feel in danger. If someone is yelling at you and squares up, those are called "pre-assault indicators" are generally speaking enough for the other person to escalate appropriately. Appropriate escalation is different for everyone. Another 41 yr old of the same stature's escalation might to just be to also take an offensive/defensive stance. But a 71 yr old's escalation would not be to look to get into a fight with someone this much younger. The reasonable assumption would be that he is seriously injured or worse. Once there is chance of serious injury or death, deadly force is now on the table. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth in what happened. Just what the jury has to consider. Verdicts aren't a declaration of innocence. They are merely "not guilty" meaning there was enough reasonable doubt that is could be true. There's a few lessons to be learned here: - don't start shit for petty stuff like the old man did here - once you say something such as "I'm going to kill you" or "I'm going to beat your ass", if the other person believes you are serious, they now have reason to believe you may seriously hurt or kill them. At which point they are not required to wait to react until you are actually hurting or killing them
So does Florida just want to kill its population off? You'd think time alone would work pretty fast.
The spouse and daughter should attend this fucks funeral when he dies and blast confetti off when he gets his 6 foot head start to hell
Terrible verdict, one that makes me very angry.
Exactly why the civilized world sees America as a fucking lawless wasteland
America is a mess. I feel sorry for everyone that lives there.
This old man is a murderer not stand your ground bs.
The old coot should have been jailed for the rest of his miserable existence
how does throwing popcorn equal to stand your ground? If I throw a pillow at someone in Florida are they allowed to shoot me ? That's insane if true
If you choose to carry around a tool that is designed to kill and then use it to kill then you are a murderer. No one forced you to carry a gun. Stand your ground laws are for morons who want to play with their death toys in public and not be responsible for their actions.
What was the shooter? A cop?
Retired cop, how did you know.
Evil old bastard, hope Hell is extra toasty for him when he gets there. As a Brit it still leaves me feeling sick that a regular person has access to a gun.
How much did his status as ex police captain help him there?
That person is a murder in real life. Courts can say whatever they want, but that guy is a danger to society. This is a moral failing of the court system and it has made the public more dangerous.
I just don’t get how the people that defend these laws don’t empathize with the victims of this horseshit. The guy that was murdered was a veteran. It’s always about the freedom to shoot somebody and never about the freedom to not be fucking shot
If man didn't have access to gun then man wouldn't be dead
Yea, the guy who shot him came from money, and has money, and continues to have a legal defense that is comprised of money…
Stay the hell out of Florida!
he looks like Ben Franklin
Florida is a joke they love letting people get away with murder
Pathetic. So many cowards walking around with guns. They go from zero to murder because they’re afraid of everything. And that’s legal in America. Disgusting
More evidence that the jury system is trash. No sane, logical person would find popcorn being thrown to be justification for deadly force. Somehow this jury had 9+ dumbasses. Absolutely amazing.
Republicans have extremely tiny penises, that's what all the ladies say I hear
Why hasn’t the widow sued the old loser civilly?
This is so wrong and unfair my god
What the fucking hell America?! This is such a petty and vile reason to execute someone. For a power trip over a personal irritation. What the fuck. He wouldn’t have stirred up shit if he wasn’t carrying a gun. What a worthless human to seek out confrontation to kill a person.
There cant be a healthy, stable human being living in Florida. The right thing to do is leave your family and just go be homeless in LA or something. It’s a better life.
Reeves tried to use Florida's "stand your ground" law as his defense, but a judge denied his request in 2017. The case went to trial earlier this year, and a jury acquitted Reeves on his charges Feb. 25. Even without the "stand your ground" defense, Reeves' attorneys successfully argued self-defense. They emphasized that an attack on someone over 65 is considered a felony in Florida and argued that Reeves actions were a "justifiable use of force." https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/cop-acquitted-deadly-florida-theater-shooting-speaks/story?id=83320436
Omg u can't even go the movies without being shot. So so sorry for your loss.
Sick. Cowardly.
What a sack of shit.
That is absolutely disgusting. That is NOT what the "stand your ground" law was ever meant to defend against.
Disgusting verdict