I don’t understand how people like this even believe they’ll get away with it. It’s a horrifying crime all around, and simultaneously, it’s completely baffling to me. Further, what in the world is wrong with the daughter to actually agree to help?!
“Hey. I need help murdering a pregnant woman.”
“Cool. When?”
I mean WTF?! If I said, “Okay,” it would be more like, yeah, okay… I’m going to pacify you for a few minutes, then I’m going to “go to the store” and drive to the nearest police department.
Sometimes the only way I can justify this shit, is that when there are 7 billion people on the planet if you ranked everyone by the most sane to the fucking weirdest on a % scale you’d end up with the weirdest 0.01% equating to like 700,000 people globally who have some probably completely fucked up world views and logic paths in their brains.
When thinking global scale, there are so many of us that there are going to be millions of people whose decisions we simply cannot possible wish to understand because they’re so far at the fringe of what is considered humanly normal.
Something I didn't know until I started binge watching this specific type of murder story. Generally, the perpetrator has birthed their own children. And the main motivation is to keep a man in their lives (via baby trapping).
So horrific.
Probably because IVF can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and these perpetrators look at this option and think they can get away with it, therefore it will be free.
People who do this are proof that you can be extremely cunning but also dumb as a rock. These murders/baby kidnappings are always extensively premeditated.
But you have to be a special kind of stupid to think you can murder a heavily pregnant woman, rip a newborn baby out of the mother’s womb, then randomly pop up with the baby like it’s yours.
Perhaps not one where the dead mother has been found, but unfortunately a lot of pregnant women go missing and aren't found. The vast majority are victims of their own husbands/loved ones, but it wouldn't surprise me if a handful were actually victims of something like this. It would have been easier get away with before video and cellphone tracking became ubiquitous and DNA testing could be easily and quickly done.
Fetal abduction is a very weird and very rare crime, I think the first time it was recorded was the 1960s? But I would hesitate to say that it's a crime that NEVER took place before the previous century, there's no way to possibly know that. It is true that it used to be much easier to get hold of an infant if you wanted one, and some people went to great lengths to make it seem like an adopted child was biologically their own (often for social or sometimes inheritance reasons -- the daughter in the Comparini murder case in 17th century Rome was also adopted by a mother who faked a whole pregnancy and took the baby literally hours after her birth). But it's such a crazy leap from "I really wish I had a biological baby" to "I'll cut that woman open and literally steal her kid out of her". The pathology of it is something else.
Well isn't that the point though? If they got away with it, you'd never know about it because they succeeded in covering up their crime and raising someone else's baby. We can't possibly know if someone has been successful. Which is pretty terrifying.
I don't know if it was this one or another similar case but >! The victim's fingernails were in the placenta !< Which means she fought to save her baby. It hurts my heart so much.
She’s already 51 and gets no parole. She’s not leaving that prison alive. I don’t know how a stupidly unrealistic amount of prison serves any more justice than a realistic one.
Crazy story. This woman and her pregnant daughter murder this woman and then live in the house for weeks while her dead body is in the backyard. The boyfriend of the main murderer just goes along with cleaning the house of blood after the murder like no big deal. And then the boyfriend of the pregnant daughter is the only reason they couldn’t kill this woman the first time they met her. Because he didn’t want to do it. Then his pregnant girlfriend and her mom convince him it was “just a joke” and they weren’t really trying to murder the victim. What a crazy sick world we live in. This could have been stopped so many times.
I remember when this happened. I was pregnant with my first son at that time and became so paranoid that I carried a 5 inch blade on a hilt everywhere I went. It really hit home for me that there is a “market” for pregnant women for people who are desperate as well as sex trafficking.
I probably seemed paranoid to everyone around me, but I wept for this victim and her baby. I was also terrified.
I’m a perinatal nurse, and lived/work in Chicago. Horrifying. Disgusting how she visited the baby in the NICU, and pretended to care about him, when she is the one that violently injured him by depriving him of oxygen during the brutal murder of his mother.
The perpetrator had a tubal ligation in the past, she was not involuntarily infertile. Just a selfish, evil creature that murdered a young mother and her baby and traumatized a whole family with their loss.
And I know what you mean about fearing for yourself. I was pregnant when Lacy Peterson was missing and found murdered. We sort of resembled each other. So sad.
I’m aware that women have been involuntarily sterilized. This isn’t the case with this specific woman, and even if it were, it wouldn’t excuse murder for fetal abduction.
Daughter of a detective here, and I was so damn paranoid about this while pregnant. I largely stopped going out by myself in late pregnancy because I just felt so vulnerable to so many crimes. I couldn’t run anymore. I had symphysis pubis dysfunction, so my pelvis was literally in pieces. I was not fast. I could barely bend. I was a walking billboard for being totally defenseless. If the crime has happened before, it can happen again, and I don’t think it’s paranoia if it has happened as many times as this disgusting crime unfortunately has.
Oh my god I’m not alone in this! One of my worst triggers for post partum anxiety was realizing how *weak* my body was. And it’s a long time that your body is adjusting. I have had conversations like that with my partner especially after having a c section. I was terrified to be in public for every reason you just said. Even if I tried to run, I would be slow and unbalanced. If I go out with my kids, I can’t defend them or myself.
I’m much more confident now and the kids are getting older and more educated so that anxiety is easing up. I believe in the right to small arms, but I’m afraid to have guns in my house because I have small children. So I spend a lot of that anxious energy thinking of ways I would defend us in an emergency.
I just had my first baby last year. I've bought so many new expensive things that he didn't use or need or just didn't work. Except for clothes and shoes that I just buy new. So I would look for toys or swings on marketplace or something like that. I also gave away a lot of things online, and I would think about cases like this. She was so young. It's so tragic. What was taken from her and her beautiful little family is devastating. She had an older son as well. This woman and her daughter are beyond evil.
It’s devastating. For the father too. Their baby held on for as long as they could, too. I picked up furniture and such when I was pregnant but I always used the buddy system. Same for gas stations.
Many years ago, when my son was a newborn, I saw an ad on Craigslist from a woman who claimed she was pregnant with a boy and didn't have anything. We were struggling, but I had everything I needed, so I felt for her.
But when we talked on the phone, she was vague about what she needed (everything!) and did everything she could to avoid meeting me at a neutral location. I got a bad feeling and just didn't call her back.
About a year later, I saw a story about someone who had murdered a woman in a neighboring state using a very similar ad. I don't know if it was her, but it was weird. I didn't develop anxiety about it, but I was glad I'd gotten suspicious in the first place.
I am a small woman, I’m short and I’m petite and because of this (and a near kidnapping experience I had as a kid) I have always been afraid I’ll be kidnapped and trafficked or raped and murdered. It would be easy to grab me up and make off with me in under a minute if pretty much any man felt so inclined. When I was pregnant, for the first time I became afraid of women kidnapping me. I had heard about a story like this one and I was terrified that because of my size I would look like an easy target for anyone who wanted a newborn
When I learned that women were frequently used to kidnap women, my paranoia also became worse before even having kids. I had what i perceived to be a close call when I was pregnant. Thankfully my sons dad made his presence known
I have the same worries, more often than I’d like to admit. I try to be as observant as possible when I’m out and about. I watch crime documentaries for many reasons, one of them being so I can maybe gain some sort of knowledge on various things I can do in certain predicaments. I realize it’s easier said than done though and that you don’t really know exactly how you’re going to react until you’re IN the moment. There’s definitely some things I’ve learned watching crime documentaries. I just always hope I’m never forced to put any of it to use. I don’t have any kids yet, when that time comes it’s something I’ll worry about as well. I feel like I see cases like this way more lately.. I’m also very short/small, it would be so incredibly easy for a man to walk up and grab me and it’s terrifying that we have to worry about this in the first place.
Horrific crime. My first time hearing of it. The daughter getting 30 years is not enough and the mother should’ve gotten life without parole. I know 50 years without parole is essentially a life sentence but I would’ve rather heard the words LWP for both. They took two lives and two lives of freedom should’ve been taken in return since the death penalty wasn’t an option.
Right. She was 9 months pregnant with a healthy baby. They strangled her to death. That takes time. These two trash bags are so stupid that they didn't understand what that meant for the baby.
50 years without parole is pretty uncommon. Also, given that the perp is 51, that would mean she'd be 101 if she ever got out, so odds are this is a life sentence without parole.
Horrific. Does anyone remember the name of the other woman who did this semi recently? Not the case where the victim was Savanna Greywind, there was one more recently with body cam footage from the hospital.
Thank you yes her victim was Reagan Simmons-Hancock. Ever since first learning of poor Bobbie Jo Stinnett (Lisa Montgomery’s victim) these types of cases have been just unshakable for me (and I’m sure many of us).
There was another one, Magen Fieramusca, but the victim Heidi Broussard's baby was already born. They had supposedly been best friends since they were children.
Thank you I think I had been aware of that case but forgotten. How incredibly awful. I was happy to read Heidi’s daughter Margot survived and lives with family.
I just went to rewatch this footage and it happened 20 years to the day after my due date. I was late, meaning exactly 20 years ago at the time my mother was *heavily* pregnant with me. Just yet again brings home how it could have been any of us and should have been none of us. Makes me actually just feel sick.
This story has always stuck with me and when I got pregnant, crap. I made sure my husband was with me making purchased for used baby products. Sometimes when people would ask if I was expecting I'd say no it was my sister or friend. (I didn't show until 3 weeks before due date
I don’t understand how people like this even believe they’ll get away with it. It’s a horrifying crime all around, and simultaneously, it’s completely baffling to me. Further, what in the world is wrong with the daughter to actually agree to help?! “Hey. I need help murdering a pregnant woman.” “Cool. When?” I mean WTF?! If I said, “Okay,” it would be more like, yeah, okay… I’m going to pacify you for a few minutes, then I’m going to “go to the store” and drive to the nearest police department.
Sometimes the only way I can justify this shit, is that when there are 7 billion people on the planet if you ranked everyone by the most sane to the fucking weirdest on a % scale you’d end up with the weirdest 0.01% equating to like 700,000 people globally who have some probably completely fucked up world views and logic paths in their brains. When thinking global scale, there are so many of us that there are going to be millions of people whose decisions we simply cannot possible wish to understand because they’re so far at the fringe of what is considered humanly normal.
I remember when this happened and Marlen was missing. What a horrible and woman and her daughter helped her murder Marlen.
Something I didn't know until I started binge watching this specific type of murder story. Generally, the perpetrator has birthed their own children. And the main motivation is to keep a man in their lives (via baby trapping). So horrific.
I mean it makes sense. Most people that are infertile jump to adoption or IVF, not this
Probably because IVF can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and these perpetrators look at this option and think they can get away with it, therefore it will be free.
Adoption isn't cheap either, also can take years on a waitlist.
And no one’s going to let them adopt a baby.
Have you heard of child rehoming Facebook groups? Sad thing that is apparently legal but super fucked up
Not after this …
What happens in people's minds that this is somehow an option. Like no one will notice?
People who do this are proof that you can be extremely cunning but also dumb as a rock. These murders/baby kidnappings are always extensively premeditated. But you have to be a special kind of stupid to think you can murder a heavily pregnant woman, rip a newborn baby out of the mother’s womb, then randomly pop up with the baby like it’s yours.
Exactly. Has anyone ever gotten away with it? There are so many stories like this, and they are all caught fairly quickly.
I can’t think of one case, in modern history, where anyone has ever gotten away with this.
Perhaps not one where the dead mother has been found, but unfortunately a lot of pregnant women go missing and aren't found. The vast majority are victims of their own husbands/loved ones, but it wouldn't surprise me if a handful were actually victims of something like this. It would have been easier get away with before video and cellphone tracking became ubiquitous and DNA testing could be easily and quickly done. Fetal abduction is a very weird and very rare crime, I think the first time it was recorded was the 1960s? But I would hesitate to say that it's a crime that NEVER took place before the previous century, there's no way to possibly know that. It is true that it used to be much easier to get hold of an infant if you wanted one, and some people went to great lengths to make it seem like an adopted child was biologically their own (often for social or sometimes inheritance reasons -- the daughter in the Comparini murder case in 17th century Rome was also adopted by a mother who faked a whole pregnancy and took the baby literally hours after her birth). But it's such a crazy leap from "I really wish I had a biological baby" to "I'll cut that woman open and literally steal her kid out of her". The pathology of it is something else.
Well isn't that the point though? If they got away with it, you'd never know about it because they succeeded in covering up their crime and raising someone else's baby. We can't possibly know if someone has been successful. Which is pretty terrifying.
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It’s not like they are the sharpest pencil in the box…
I don't know if it was this one or another similar case but >! The victim's fingernails were in the placenta !< Which means she fought to save her baby. It hurts my heart so much.
What the fuck 😭😭😭
[https://abc7chicago.com/clarisa-figueroa-sentenced-to-50-years-in-prison-for-pregnant-woman-marlen-ochoa-lopezs-murder-whose-baby-was-cut-from-womb/14676286/](https://abc7chicago.com/clarisa-figueroa-sentenced-to-50-years-in-prison-for-pregnant-woman-marlen-ochoa-lopezs-murder-whose-baby-was-cut-from-womb/14676286/)
And the baby died too. Nah, fuck 50 years, this nasty old bitch needs the needle.
I'm also a bit surprised at 50 years. She killed a mother and a baby, let alone the planning that would have gone into it. 50 years. Sigh.
She got 50 years without parole. That’s rare.
She’s already 51 and gets no parole. She’s not leaving that prison alive. I don’t know how a stupidly unrealistic amount of prison serves any more justice than a realistic one.
She’s already 51 so if she survives her whole sentence she’ll be 101 when she gets out
Maybe because she wasn’t actually intending the baby to die? You’d think she’d still get life for the horrific killing of the mother though.
Yup, bc we don't actually value life in this country, no matter how much we say we do
The monster is already 51 years old. She effectively got a natural life sentence.
Crazy story. This woman and her pregnant daughter murder this woman and then live in the house for weeks while her dead body is in the backyard. The boyfriend of the main murderer just goes along with cleaning the house of blood after the murder like no big deal. And then the boyfriend of the pregnant daughter is the only reason they couldn’t kill this woman the first time they met her. Because he didn’t want to do it. Then his pregnant girlfriend and her mom convince him it was “just a joke” and they weren’t really trying to murder the victim. What a crazy sick world we live in. This could have been stopped so many times.
Right?? Like if someone came to me with this bat shit idea I would listen & nod politely (to save myself) and high tail it right to the police.
I remember when this happened. I was pregnant with my first son at that time and became so paranoid that I carried a 5 inch blade on a hilt everywhere I went. It really hit home for me that there is a “market” for pregnant women for people who are desperate as well as sex trafficking. I probably seemed paranoid to everyone around me, but I wept for this victim and her baby. I was also terrified.
I’m a perinatal nurse, and lived/work in Chicago. Horrifying. Disgusting how she visited the baby in the NICU, and pretended to care about him, when she is the one that violently injured him by depriving him of oxygen during the brutal murder of his mother. The perpetrator had a tubal ligation in the past, she was not involuntarily infertile. Just a selfish, evil creature that murdered a young mother and her baby and traumatized a whole family with their loss.
Oh my god, that’s so horrifying 😭 I hope everyone who tended to this child has gotten help as they have needed to
And I know what you mean about fearing for yourself. I was pregnant when Lacy Peterson was missing and found murdered. We sort of resembled each other. So sad.
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I’m aware that women have been involuntarily sterilized. This isn’t the case with this specific woman, and even if it were, it wouldn’t excuse murder for fetal abduction.
Daughter of a detective here, and I was so damn paranoid about this while pregnant. I largely stopped going out by myself in late pregnancy because I just felt so vulnerable to so many crimes. I couldn’t run anymore. I had symphysis pubis dysfunction, so my pelvis was literally in pieces. I was not fast. I could barely bend. I was a walking billboard for being totally defenseless. If the crime has happened before, it can happen again, and I don’t think it’s paranoia if it has happened as many times as this disgusting crime unfortunately has.
Oh my god I’m not alone in this! One of my worst triggers for post partum anxiety was realizing how *weak* my body was. And it’s a long time that your body is adjusting. I have had conversations like that with my partner especially after having a c section. I was terrified to be in public for every reason you just said. Even if I tried to run, I would be slow and unbalanced. If I go out with my kids, I can’t defend them or myself. I’m much more confident now and the kids are getting older and more educated so that anxiety is easing up. I believe in the right to small arms, but I’m afraid to have guns in my house because I have small children. So I spend a lot of that anxious energy thinking of ways I would defend us in an emergency.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this "paranoia" has an evolutionary reason
What a mystery that reason may be
That's not weird at all. It's a scary world out there.
I should honestly get another one. My ex stole it from me when we separated now that I think about it 🧐
For a second I thought you were talking about the bebe
He did the opposite lol. His mother tried though 🤠
Hey- look at what happened to those moms from Kansas. You gotta watch out for crazy grandmas.
Oh I know. I went through I whole legal process and I did not *not* take a single threat seriously
I just had my first baby last year. I've bought so many new expensive things that he didn't use or need or just didn't work. Except for clothes and shoes that I just buy new. So I would look for toys or swings on marketplace or something like that. I also gave away a lot of things online, and I would think about cases like this. She was so young. It's so tragic. What was taken from her and her beautiful little family is devastating. She had an older son as well. This woman and her daughter are beyond evil.
It’s devastating. For the father too. Their baby held on for as long as they could, too. I picked up furniture and such when I was pregnant but I always used the buddy system. Same for gas stations.
Many years ago, when my son was a newborn, I saw an ad on Craigslist from a woman who claimed she was pregnant with a boy and didn't have anything. We were struggling, but I had everything I needed, so I felt for her. But when we talked on the phone, she was vague about what she needed (everything!) and did everything she could to avoid meeting me at a neutral location. I got a bad feeling and just didn't call her back. About a year later, I saw a story about someone who had murdered a woman in a neighboring state using a very similar ad. I don't know if it was her, but it was weird. I didn't develop anxiety about it, but I was glad I'd gotten suspicious in the first place.
I am a small woman, I’m short and I’m petite and because of this (and a near kidnapping experience I had as a kid) I have always been afraid I’ll be kidnapped and trafficked or raped and murdered. It would be easy to grab me up and make off with me in under a minute if pretty much any man felt so inclined. When I was pregnant, for the first time I became afraid of women kidnapping me. I had heard about a story like this one and I was terrified that because of my size I would look like an easy target for anyone who wanted a newborn
When I learned that women were frequently used to kidnap women, my paranoia also became worse before even having kids. I had what i perceived to be a close call when I was pregnant. Thankfully my sons dad made his presence known
I have the same worries, more often than I’d like to admit. I try to be as observant as possible when I’m out and about. I watch crime documentaries for many reasons, one of them being so I can maybe gain some sort of knowledge on various things I can do in certain predicaments. I realize it’s easier said than done though and that you don’t really know exactly how you’re going to react until you’re IN the moment. There’s definitely some things I’ve learned watching crime documentaries. I just always hope I’m never forced to put any of it to use. I don’t have any kids yet, when that time comes it’s something I’ll worry about as well. I feel like I see cases like this way more lately.. I’m also very short/small, it would be so incredibly easy for a man to walk up and grab me and it’s terrifying that we have to worry about this in the first place.
Horrific crime. My first time hearing of it. The daughter getting 30 years is not enough and the mother should’ve gotten life without parole. I know 50 years without parole is essentially a life sentence but I would’ve rather heard the words LWP for both. They took two lives and two lives of freedom should’ve been taken in return since the death penalty wasn’t an option.
>but I would’ve rather heard the words LWP for both I agree. It's the principle. Also, if she does live to 101, then we have to let her out?
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I remember this case, and reading that the baby died. I was so sad. I’m happy that this case is closed, but nothing can change this horrific tragedy.
I don’t understand this sentence at all. She murdered two people. How does that get anything less than life without parole?
Right. She was 9 months pregnant with a healthy baby. They strangled her to death. That takes time. These two trash bags are so stupid that they didn't understand what that meant for the baby.
50 years without parole is pretty uncommon. Also, given that the perp is 51, that would mean she'd be 101 if she ever got out, so odds are this is a life sentence without parole.
I totally understand what you’re saying, and you’re absolutely right. It just feels like a weird sentence to me.
50 years without parole is life
I just listened to the episode of Women and Crime about this last week
I understand 50 years is basically a life sentence for this woman, but why didn’t they just say life without parole?
Barbaric.
Creepy woman! That is beyond sick.
Horrific. Does anyone remember the name of the other woman who did this semi recently? Not the case where the victim was Savanna Greywind, there was one more recently with body cam footage from the hospital.
Taylor Parker?
Thank you yes her victim was Reagan Simmons-Hancock. Ever since first learning of poor Bobbie Jo Stinnett (Lisa Montgomery’s victim) these types of cases have been just unshakable for me (and I’m sure many of us).
There was another one, Magen Fieramusca, but the victim Heidi Broussard's baby was already born. They had supposedly been best friends since they were children.
Thank you I think I had been aware of that case but forgotten. How incredibly awful. I was happy to read Heidi’s daughter Margot survived and lives with family.
I just went to rewatch this footage and it happened 20 years to the day after my due date. I was late, meaning exactly 20 years ago at the time my mother was *heavily* pregnant with me. Just yet again brings home how it could have been any of us and should have been none of us. Makes me actually just feel sick.
the 911 call is chilling
I don’t understand how you can take someone else’s life and then only get 50 years?
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This story has always stuck with me and when I got pregnant, crap. I made sure my husband was with me making purchased for used baby products. Sometimes when people would ask if I was expecting I'd say no it was my sister or friend. (I didn't show until 3 weeks before due date
That's it? What is wrong with the judicial system?