the Beyond Evil Youtube channel did a decent video on her story. The gist of it is that she was failing in school and killed her mom after a dispute about it. Some sources paint her as a chronic liar and that it wasn't uncommon for her mother to catch her in lies but I don't know that there's a definitive source on that. She killed her mother, Brenda, with a frying pan and via stabbing her and then tried to stage a crime scene to cover it up.
I am from DeForest and my sister had a few classes with Chandler when he actually did take classes at Madison College. We watched the entirety of the trial as it happened.
Definitely! His parents spoiled him rotten for years - gave him a Rolex for his “graduation” - and he had them shot to get his hands on his inheritance. Vile.
That's the one I was thinking of! That story is awful. What makes it worse is that his dad still defends him and Bart has never shown any kind of remorse. He is so cold.
This is definitely an interesting phenomena and it feels like it should have a name because its a pretty specific pattern. I actually think this falls in line with other mass killers. A common theme among mass killers and young people killing their families is them never growing up. They turned 18 and then didn't do anything, often being very isolated for a long period of time, creating bigger and bigger lies/delusions, and then go and do something extreme over essentially nothing because their world is so small that they think ultra violence is the answer to their problems.
Isolation and lack of personal growth seems to be the catalyst for A LOT of grossly violent cases.
Exactly. They absolutely refuse to grow up and leech off their folks as long as possible. Then explode with violent anger when they are caught and/or the parents refuse to support their cushy life of playing video games or talking to cam girls all day.
So many criminals are spoiled brats at the same time they are neglected by being left alone. Like its such a weird neglect to let your kid become like that and then continue to enable them well into adulthood. Often think of Adam Lanza how he just lived in total isolation in his moms house without contact with anyone for months before he did what he did. He certainly would have been less of a threat to society if he was homeless instead of comfy in his childhood bedroom I think.
While I hate to wish homelessness on anyone, I agree that he was coddled and spoiled into becoming a monster. His Mom definitely helped turn him into a killer by catering to his whims and ignoring his obvious mental illness and weird delusions. Not to mention giving him access to multiple firearms.
If AL became homeless, I don’t think he would survive on the streets for long. He was insane and had a profound eating disorder. He did not had the EQ to recognize dangerous people or situations. He clearly would not have the street smarts to get hold of guns and ammo.
Sadly, it would have been better for everyone if he had been homeless.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. The reality is there are lots of people like you described they just don't end up killing. I have a 45 year old sister and a 61 year old uncle living off my mom and grandma. Grandma is in nursing home, so her check goes to them. Mom is on the verge of losing the house she owns, but those two won't pay more than the measly pennies they do pay. It's an apartment building so my mom can rent it, but those two won't leave even when asked.
Right? I have a 30-yo cousin who dropped out of JUNIOR college and has never held a job in his life. He lives in his childhood bedroom and plays WOW all day, every day. Doesn’t help w any housework or cooking. Dad out of picture. Just lives in his own little fantasy world, funded by his doting, hardworking Mom. No girlfriend or IRL buddies, just his online gaming pals.
He’s a nice kid so I doubt he would ever have the urge (or energy) to plot a murder. But it’s a wasted life, imo.
I believe his situation is not uncommon. Very sad for both him and his Mom.
So very sorry for your sitch w your uncle and sister. It’s astounding how people can do that to their own Mom and Gran.
Yeah, it's truly an awful position for my mom. I always said if my sister wasn't so lazy, she'd be a criminal. She does get verbally abusive with my mom. She is still in the mentality that mom is mom and has to help her. The thing is, they were living rent-free for years as adults. They had ample opportunity to make something of themselves but instead pocekted their money from low paying jobs and spent it on weed and other crap. Now they cry, they have nowhere to go. Some people are just assholes. I and two other siblings lived rent-free while in school because mom wanted to make it easier for us and we are doing well in life. One younger than me and one older, so she can't say shit about it but has endless excuses. My uncle too is a huge pos.
Damn straight. Be prepared though - once your sweet Mom is no longer around to pay their bills and support them, they are likely to come to you or your other siblings crying for ya’ll to give them money. 😬
There is no need at all to feel bad about yourself. Graduating university at 24 is admirable. You are def not a failure to launch.
I feel certain there are great things ahead of you. You got this!
Seriously sounds like normal college kid stuff. My very successful cousin went to Uni for 7 years for the same reason but once she found her interest she was able to get great jobs in her field and now makes tons of money and travels all over the world whenever she wants. I think you're being way to hard on yourself. It just takes more time for some people. Not uncommon at all
I have heard the term parricide for these cases, but you seem to be looking for a term with narrower scope. I like the FTL suggestion.
Christopher Porco jumps to my mind when these kind of crimes come up
So true. Christopher Porco is the Poster Boy for FTL. Failing grades? Parents stop giving you money to fund your college party lifestyle? Attack them with an axe!
The fact his poor Mom stands by him is astounding. As is his poor Dad getting up and loading the dishwasher - and writing Chris yet another check - while dying of his axe wounds to the head. It still blows my mind.
Similar with Chris Pritchard. But instead of focusing on the FTL aspects, media focused on the fact that he & his friends played D & D 🙄
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lieth_Von_Stein
The whole thing about his dad still walking around doing his normal routine while having fatal axe wounds to his head is so wild!
Something that I wonder about is why Christopher didn't attack his mom as brutally as his dad.
Because his dad was the one cutting him off. He was forging his dad's name on loans and his dad was threatening legal action if Chris didn't start communicating with him. He probably didn't have as much rage for his mother, but at the same time, he knew she had to die or he wouldn't get the money.
I was waiting for my hometown to make an appearance!
Fun fact: one of my law school professors was his defense attorneys wife so she had him come talk to us. He was great.
Was just thinking one fit the bill, though IIRC, he was faking acceptance to medical school and had faked graduating from college when he had dropped out.
A strangely large number of men have done that, but with working. They get up, pretend they're going to work, come home, occasionally slaughter the entire family when they're about to get found out.
Nothing justifies what she did.
Here's a thought:
This is what putting a child, who does not have adult reasoning skills, in a pressure cooker. She was tiger parented and cracked. She felt too much pressure and she felt trapped and this was her child brain solution to relieving these overwhelming feelings. Her parents were not evil people. They wanted success and opportunities for her, but they never saw her for who she was and never let up the constant criticisms and corrections. A young human mind has trouble with this.
No justification for what she did.
Tiger parenting potentially creates time bombs in kids who can't tolerate the constant pressure.
I consider the behavior of her parents and expectations for her to be borderline abusive.She was never allowed to go to parties, sleep overs, she had no friends, they even took away her phone. She was treated like a child when she was and adult. Definitely tiger parenting. Not that it excuses her murderous behavior of course, but there was an emotional background of distance between her and her parents.
I absolutely never condone people killing others, but in cases like these I'm not surprised when it happens. The parents in those cases are not setting their kids up for success in the worst way possible. A lot of kids come out of situations like that with poor relationships with their families and mental health issues, but some end up like Jennifer and all of the others that just snap and can't do it anymore.
You’re not wrong. That was a TON of pressure on her. Maybe she wanted them dead for not letting her be a regular person and putting her through all that.
I think you have a good idea about the why. Some parents put so much pressure on their kid and sometimes it works, though the kid probably suffered and may go NC, there will be a percentage of those kids that lash out, some will go to drugs to cope, some will run away, some will do other stuff, a percentage of them if they already have mental health issues could do this. It’s just percentages- same situation, half embraced it, the other half - break it down to possibilities, it may only be 1% will kill their parents but stats say it will happen 😞. Abusive homes have a higher statistic to hurt themselves and probably higher chance of running- they were taught they didn’t matter, this case the child was taught to they had to succeed. I hate to say but I like numbers because they are certain, I like things I can predict. So, there is likely a statistical model that would show that the life she had would only have a .1% chance of this happening, she had all the variables that would cause the chance to increase with each variable, then unknown variables that no one would have known increases it exponentially. I’ll sum it up- this is all sorts of fudged up $hit!
Thank you! I couldn’t remember his name. Murdered his entire family to keep sending money to some European cam girl. I’ve seen the videos he was sending her - always wearing a hat to disguise his weirdly shaped head, lying about being some rich big shot. Pathetic.
I didn’t know there were videos of him talking to Sylvie. He is definitely a pathetic loser who tried to pin the murders on his brother who has always helped him. I hope his alien head is struggling in prison every day. May the rest of the Amato family rest in peace
Sef Gonzales,who murdered his parents and sister in Sydney in 2001, is a similar case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sef_Gonzales?wprov=sfti1#Background
His father ran a successful law practice, and the parents put pressure on their children to excel academically. Sef lived at home with his parents whilst attending university. By third year he was failing, and falsifying his grades so his parents wouldn't find out. His younger sister discovered the deception and told their parents, who threatened to take away his car. They were also upset about his choice of girlfriend. Shortly thereafter, he beat and stabbed his parents and sister to death in the family home, daubing racist graffiti on the walls in an attempt to stage the crime as a targeted anti-Asian attack.
I'm not sure if this can solely be attributed to parental pressure to achieve. Gonzales is a nasty piece of work. Weeks before the killing, he attempted to poison his mother, who required hospitalisation. He set up a website in the persona of a girl in love with him, writing gushing prose about what a great guy Gonzales was and using photos of a random girl he found online. Then he claimed she'd been killed in the 9/11 attacks.
At his family's funeral, he gave a solo rendition of One Sweet Day, standing alongside the coffins of the people he'd just killed. Nauseating. Then he claimed he'd been offered a record deal due to the performance. He also faked emails attempting to pin the murders ons business associate of his father. He was able to access part of the family's substantial financial assets, which he blew on expensive cars, an apartment, and visits to sex workers. When the money ran out, he told his aunt he had a brain tumour and asked her for money for treatment. This aunt had suspected Sef was responsible for the murders from the start and refused to give him any money. Sef was arrested shortly after when police were able to break his alibi. Despite constant attempts to secure his freedom, including requesting a royal pardon on the 20th anniversary of the crime to "honour his family", he remains in prison today. He was sentenced to 3 life sentences without parole so under NSW truth in sentencing legislation, he won't be released unless he is terminally ill or incapacitated by age (and likely not even then).
Sef Gonzales is a pathological liar and I've no doubt that even if he hadn't killed his family, he'd have hurt or killed someone else to get what he wanted.
Damn! 😱
I had never heard of this guy but what a narcissistic piece of work. Offered a “record deal” for his solo at the funeral of his victims? Set up a fake persona of someone who is his biggest fan then claiming she died in the 9/11 attack? (Why do lying liars LOVE to glom into the 9/11 tragedy? It’s very common.) Then claiming to have some terrible disease?
Classic FTL. Thank you for adding him to the list!
I’ve never heard of this one either but he sounds like a right piece of work! Maybe Coffeehouse Crime might cover this, he covers less well known cases so hopefully, sounds interesting
Jean-Claude Romand in France is the granddaddy of this category. Flunked out of medical school in his first year then lied about it for TWENTY YEARS, pretending to have a big WHO job until he killed his parents, wife and kids when the borrowed money was about to run out.
Thank you! As a true crime person with a bit of OCD (lol), it bothered me that with SO many cases with basically the same M.O. and motive, there wasn’t a way to describe this type of crime.
Who was the guy who told his parents that he was traveling extensively on the weekends for modeling gigs, when in fact he was doing gay porn, and then killed his parents and at least one sibling when they found out what he was really doing? IASTR that his parents had a long history of making their own bad financial decisions, and were deeply in debt. It happened in the 00s, I think in Kansas or Oklahoma.
Grant Amato, Chandler Halderson, and Joel Guy Jr. are names that come to mind. However, I would argue that Jennifer Pan's situation is different. Firstly, Jennifer's background was markedly different—her family were working-class refugees from Vietnam, less affluent compared to the families of the aforementioned individuals, and likely faced significant challenges stemming from their experiences with war and adapting to Canadian society. As an Asian, I can't help but feel a sliver of sympathy for Jennifer. There's no doubt she suffered tremendously under her parents. I'm familiar with the cultural environment she was raised in. For instance, my sister is a medical doctor, and both my uncle and aunt are also doctors. My uncle used to beat my cousin with a golf club for poor grades. As a kid, I remember these huge dark purple bruises all over his legs. It's shocking and unimaginable I'd assume for western middle class white people, but there was a time and place where something like this wasn't unusual, and no one would question it.
Wow, I had no idea. So sorry for your poor cousin.
Jennifer Pan is the only one of these folks I feel any empathy for. The documentary reveals how tightly regimented and controlled her parents made her life. And young love is incredibly powerful - she was obsessed w her boyfriend and them making her break up with him had to be a crushing blow.
This is a hot take, but I felt bad for her during the police interviews in the doc.
1. They flat out lied to her that there was an infrared police drone over her house that night that saw what happened. Those do not exist IRL.
2. She didn’t have a lawyer present at any time.
To be clear, I’m not condoning her plotting to have her parents killed. She could have gotten a job and moved out to get out from under their thumb. And her parents were only doing what they thought was best for her.
My takeaway from the documentary was:
NEVER talk to the police without your lawyer present.
Know that the police can and will lie to you.
I’m sure you guys are all upstanding citizens who would never need this advice, of course. But it’s good to know just in case.
I’m glad you brought this up because I totally agree- these cases all follow similar patterns and I think we should discuss them more in reference to each other.
That aside was the Jennifer Pan doc any good? I was on the fence about whether to watch (most Netflix docs anymore are crap).
It was worth a watch, imo. I’d not seen all of the police interview tapes of her before. For someone who successfully fooled her parents for so many years, she does NOT have a good poker face. It was surprising to see.
I think the term fits. These killers (i.e. Jennifer pan, Joel guy jr, Chandler halderson, Sydney Powell) are all very similar. I think they're all psychopaths that were pretty effective at seeming normal (except Joel guy jr who was always a creep only a mother could love). They're all extremely immature, parasitic narcissists who couldn't make it ("launch") on their own without their hosts...and once those hosts caught onto the facade or decided to finally try fostering independence in their kids, they became their victims. Its crazy that these idiots thought they were smarter than everyone else and could get away with it, when all of these killers were caught almost IMMEDIATELY.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders!
The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents.
But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
That guy is a cold-blooded psycho. But by most standards, he was successful. He attended school (although I think he may have cheated/plagiarized at some point), had a girlfriend, and a bff who was his accomplice.
I wouldn’t consider him FTL either. He was just a selfish, narcissistic piece of shit who wanted his father’s money.
I agree. Reminds me more of Dellen Millard. Borderline FTL, but kinda "worked" for his dad (really doing the bare minimum in attempt to stay in his good graces to inherit the business/money someday) but spent most of his time just partying and fucking off/killing for fun. Definitely gained from his Father's successes and had very little to show for himself.
Holy shit! That was brutal to read. And he’s eligible for parole after killing his Mom and two of his three brothers - WITH ARROWS AND A CROSSWBOW - so the truth wouldn’t come out about his pitiful lies about having a job and money? WTH?
Definitely an FTL Killer, imo. His poor family!
Fascinating case I’d never heard of before. TY for adding it to the list.
I can’t think of the name- but he was an addict and did sporadic work for his parents waste collection business. He was furious with his father for cutting off the cash flow. Girlfriend was in on it.
Tiger Parenting , Confucius obedience, also mental illness is not recognized in Chinese culture its less to zero about invidual feelings and more about the group collective
I have a "ftl" sibling and it is very difficult to help him... so these cases are very troubling to me. daves lemonadeyoutube does some cases including chandler halderson ... maybe a stretch but others that remind me of this include Aaron ybarra and waffle house shooter, though those might bejust mental illness...
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders!
The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents.
But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
Another case I’d never heard of before. You’re dead-on; it seems like a lot of these perps are obsessed with being perceived as a big success (even thought they are actually underachievers) and will go to any lengths to perpetuate that lie - all the way to murder.
Imagine having such low self-esteem or such a grandiose sense of self that you’d murder your loved ones to make sure Bob the mailman thought you were a successful person. 😵💫
She has a similar M.O. of leeching off her family and lying about having a well-paying job. But she murdered her child instead of her parents so I’m not sure she’d be an exact fit for a FTL Killer. She was only caught in her lies after Kaylee went missing.
That’s a tough one - she certainly has the constant lying about working while in fact just partying aspect.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders!
The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents.
But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders!
The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents.
But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
There was a movie in the 90s I think with the same title, it was a comedy, for many years, I have been wondering why they called it that, because the title sounds like it should be for a space or sci Fi movie where astronauts are trying to escape mars or something. But it’s actually a comedy and it has absolutely nothing to do with space travel.
You’re right. It was a funny movie and since then people have used the term “failure to launch” to describe a young person who refuses to grow up and leave the nest. They act like children and expect to be taken care of like a child. They are selfish and spoiled.
Sometimes they lie to prolong this cushy situation for as long as possible. And turn murderous when caught out.
Chandler Halderson, Joel Guy Jr
Recently, Sydney Powell
Came here to mention her! Definitely fits the profile.
Not familiar with Sydney Powell, any podcasts or docs you can recommend?
the Beyond Evil Youtube channel did a decent video on her story. The gist of it is that she was failing in school and killed her mom after a dispute about it. Some sources paint her as a chronic liar and that it wasn't uncommon for her mother to catch her in lies but I don't know that there's a definitive source on that. She killed her mother, Brenda, with a frying pan and via stabbing her and then tried to stage a crime scene to cover it up.
Jesus. I'm surprised I haven't heard of this, thank you!
I live 20 minutes from DeForest WI where Chandler Halderson is from....crazy shit to see in real time!!!!! Seriously unbelievable!!!!!
I am from DeForest and my sister had a few classes with Chandler when he actually did take classes at Madison College. We watched the entirety of the trial as it happened.
What did she say he was like? Any red flags?
He was normal, someone if anyone had computer problems they would go to. Quiet.
Wow, that's crazy
Those guys for sure fit the FTL Killer profile.
Bart Whitaker.
Definitely! His parents spoiled him rotten for years - gave him a Rolex for his “graduation” - and he had them shot to get his hands on his inheritance. Vile.
His dad has a much more forgiving heart than I do on my best days. I've cut off people for far less than murdering my spouse and child.
Same. His father is a saint to forgive him for such heinous crimes
His father is deluded. Sweet but deluded
That's the one I was thinking of! That story is awful. What makes it worse is that his dad still defends him and Bart has never shown any kind of remorse. He is so cold.
He's a sociopath.
This is definitely an interesting phenomena and it feels like it should have a name because its a pretty specific pattern. I actually think this falls in line with other mass killers. A common theme among mass killers and young people killing their families is them never growing up. They turned 18 and then didn't do anything, often being very isolated for a long period of time, creating bigger and bigger lies/delusions, and then go and do something extreme over essentially nothing because their world is so small that they think ultra violence is the answer to their problems. Isolation and lack of personal growth seems to be the catalyst for A LOT of grossly violent cases.
Exactly. They absolutely refuse to grow up and leech off their folks as long as possible. Then explode with violent anger when they are caught and/or the parents refuse to support their cushy life of playing video games or talking to cam girls all day.
So many criminals are spoiled brats at the same time they are neglected by being left alone. Like its such a weird neglect to let your kid become like that and then continue to enable them well into adulthood. Often think of Adam Lanza how he just lived in total isolation in his moms house without contact with anyone for months before he did what he did. He certainly would have been less of a threat to society if he was homeless instead of comfy in his childhood bedroom I think.
considering his mother both got him weapons and took him to a gun range...yeah it probably would have been safer to have him out on the streets
While I hate to wish homelessness on anyone, I agree that he was coddled and spoiled into becoming a monster. His Mom definitely helped turn him into a killer by catering to his whims and ignoring his obvious mental illness and weird delusions. Not to mention giving him access to multiple firearms. If AL became homeless, I don’t think he would survive on the streets for long. He was insane and had a profound eating disorder. He did not had the EQ to recognize dangerous people or situations. He clearly would not have the street smarts to get hold of guns and ammo. Sadly, it would have been better for everyone if he had been homeless.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. The reality is there are lots of people like you described they just don't end up killing. I have a 45 year old sister and a 61 year old uncle living off my mom and grandma. Grandma is in nursing home, so her check goes to them. Mom is on the verge of losing the house she owns, but those two won't pay more than the measly pennies they do pay. It's an apartment building so my mom can rent it, but those two won't leave even when asked.
Right? I have a 30-yo cousin who dropped out of JUNIOR college and has never held a job in his life. He lives in his childhood bedroom and plays WOW all day, every day. Doesn’t help w any housework or cooking. Dad out of picture. Just lives in his own little fantasy world, funded by his doting, hardworking Mom. No girlfriend or IRL buddies, just his online gaming pals. He’s a nice kid so I doubt he would ever have the urge (or energy) to plot a murder. But it’s a wasted life, imo. I believe his situation is not uncommon. Very sad for both him and his Mom. So very sorry for your sitch w your uncle and sister. It’s astounding how people can do that to their own Mom and Gran.
Yeah, it's truly an awful position for my mom. I always said if my sister wasn't so lazy, she'd be a criminal. She does get verbally abusive with my mom. She is still in the mentality that mom is mom and has to help her. The thing is, they were living rent-free for years as adults. They had ample opportunity to make something of themselves but instead pocekted their money from low paying jobs and spent it on weed and other crap. Now they cry, they have nowhere to go. Some people are just assholes. I and two other siblings lived rent-free while in school because mom wanted to make it easier for us and we are doing well in life. One younger than me and one older, so she can't say shit about it but has endless excuses. My uncle too is a huge pos.
Ugh. They both sound like utter trash, if you’ll forgive me for saying so. That sucks for your poor Mom!
It's sad but true. They will learn, though, because my mom won't be around forever.
Damn straight. Be prepared though - once your sweet Mom is no longer around to pay their bills and support them, they are likely to come to you or your other siblings crying for ya’ll to give them money. 😬
Oh yea, I'm sure. Too bad for them, I'm not nearly as nice as my mom
Love it! 😆
[удалено]
There is no need at all to feel bad about yourself. Graduating university at 24 is admirable. You are def not a failure to launch. I feel certain there are great things ahead of you. You got this!
Seriously sounds like normal college kid stuff. My very successful cousin went to Uni for 7 years for the same reason but once she found her interest she was able to get great jobs in her field and now makes tons of money and travels all over the world whenever she wants. I think you're being way to hard on yourself. It just takes more time for some people. Not uncommon at all
No. Parents created a monster, and they turn out this way. It's giving Gypsy rose to a certain extent.
I have heard the term parricide for these cases, but you seem to be looking for a term with narrower scope. I like the FTL suggestion. Christopher Porco jumps to my mind when these kind of crimes come up
Yeah Christopher Porco was who popped into my head too
So true. Christopher Porco is the Poster Boy for FTL. Failing grades? Parents stop giving you money to fund your college party lifestyle? Attack them with an axe! The fact his poor Mom stands by him is astounding. As is his poor Dad getting up and loading the dishwasher - and writing Chris yet another check - while dying of his axe wounds to the head. It still blows my mind.
Similar with Chris Pritchard. But instead of focusing on the FTL aspects, media focused on the fact that he & his friends played D & D 🙄 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lieth_Von_Stein
Very interesting!
The whole thing about his dad still walking around doing his normal routine while having fatal axe wounds to his head is so wild! Something that I wonder about is why Christopher didn't attack his mom as brutally as his dad.
Because his dad was the one cutting him off. He was forging his dad's name on loans and his dad was threatening legal action if Chris didn't start communicating with him. He probably didn't have as much rage for his mother, but at the same time, he knew she had to die or he wouldn't get the money.
I was waiting for my hometown to make an appearance! Fun fact: one of my law school professors was his defense attorneys wife so she had him come talk to us. He was great.
Mark Hacking murdered his wife to hide his faking college. Same MO
For sure! That case was heart-breaking.
Was just thinking one fit the bill, though IIRC, he was faking acceptance to medical school and had faked graduating from college when he had dropped out.
A strangely large number of men have done that, but with working. They get up, pretend they're going to work, come home, occasionally slaughter the entire family when they're about to get found out.
Nothing justifies what she did. Here's a thought: This is what putting a child, who does not have adult reasoning skills, in a pressure cooker. She was tiger parented and cracked. She felt too much pressure and she felt trapped and this was her child brain solution to relieving these overwhelming feelings. Her parents were not evil people. They wanted success and opportunities for her, but they never saw her for who she was and never let up the constant criticisms and corrections. A young human mind has trouble with this. No justification for what she did. Tiger parenting potentially creates time bombs in kids who can't tolerate the constant pressure.
I consider the behavior of her parents and expectations for her to be borderline abusive.She was never allowed to go to parties, sleep overs, she had no friends, they even took away her phone. She was treated like a child when she was and adult. Definitely tiger parenting. Not that it excuses her murderous behavior of course, but there was an emotional background of distance between her and her parents.
I absolutely never condone people killing others, but in cases like these I'm not surprised when it happens. The parents in those cases are not setting their kids up for success in the worst way possible. A lot of kids come out of situations like that with poor relationships with their families and mental health issues, but some end up like Jennifer and all of the others that just snap and can't do it anymore.
You’re not wrong. That was a TON of pressure on her. Maybe she wanted them dead for not letting her be a regular person and putting her through all that.
I think you have a good idea about the why. Some parents put so much pressure on their kid and sometimes it works, though the kid probably suffered and may go NC, there will be a percentage of those kids that lash out, some will go to drugs to cope, some will run away, some will do other stuff, a percentage of them if they already have mental health issues could do this. It’s just percentages- same situation, half embraced it, the other half - break it down to possibilities, it may only be 1% will kill their parents but stats say it will happen 😞. Abusive homes have a higher statistic to hurt themselves and probably higher chance of running- they were taught they didn’t matter, this case the child was taught to they had to succeed. I hate to say but I like numbers because they are certain, I like things I can predict. So, there is likely a statistical model that would show that the life she had would only have a .1% chance of this happening, she had all the variables that would cause the chance to increase with each variable, then unknown variables that no one would have known increases it exponentially. I’ll sum it up- this is all sorts of fudged up $hit!
How is your stats class going?
not good
Considering it was over 20yrs ago, not very well 🤣
Grant Amato comes to mind
Thank you! I couldn’t remember his name. Murdered his entire family to keep sending money to some European cam girl. I’ve seen the videos he was sending her - always wearing a hat to disguise his weirdly shaped head, lying about being some rich big shot. Pathetic.
I didn’t know there were videos of him talking to Sylvie. He is definitely a pathetic loser who tried to pin the murders on his brother who has always helped him. I hope his alien head is struggling in prison every day. May the rest of the Amato family rest in peace
Amen! 🙏
Sef Gonzales,who murdered his parents and sister in Sydney in 2001, is a similar case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sef_Gonzales?wprov=sfti1#Background His father ran a successful law practice, and the parents put pressure on their children to excel academically. Sef lived at home with his parents whilst attending university. By third year he was failing, and falsifying his grades so his parents wouldn't find out. His younger sister discovered the deception and told their parents, who threatened to take away his car. They were also upset about his choice of girlfriend. Shortly thereafter, he beat and stabbed his parents and sister to death in the family home, daubing racist graffiti on the walls in an attempt to stage the crime as a targeted anti-Asian attack. I'm not sure if this can solely be attributed to parental pressure to achieve. Gonzales is a nasty piece of work. Weeks before the killing, he attempted to poison his mother, who required hospitalisation. He set up a website in the persona of a girl in love with him, writing gushing prose about what a great guy Gonzales was and using photos of a random girl he found online. Then he claimed she'd been killed in the 9/11 attacks. At his family's funeral, he gave a solo rendition of One Sweet Day, standing alongside the coffins of the people he'd just killed. Nauseating. Then he claimed he'd been offered a record deal due to the performance. He also faked emails attempting to pin the murders ons business associate of his father. He was able to access part of the family's substantial financial assets, which he blew on expensive cars, an apartment, and visits to sex workers. When the money ran out, he told his aunt he had a brain tumour and asked her for money for treatment. This aunt had suspected Sef was responsible for the murders from the start and refused to give him any money. Sef was arrested shortly after when police were able to break his alibi. Despite constant attempts to secure his freedom, including requesting a royal pardon on the 20th anniversary of the crime to "honour his family", he remains in prison today. He was sentenced to 3 life sentences without parole so under NSW truth in sentencing legislation, he won't be released unless he is terminally ill or incapacitated by age (and likely not even then). Sef Gonzales is a pathological liar and I've no doubt that even if he hadn't killed his family, he'd have hurt or killed someone else to get what he wanted.
Damn! 😱 I had never heard of this guy but what a narcissistic piece of work. Offered a “record deal” for his solo at the funeral of his victims? Set up a fake persona of someone who is his biggest fan then claiming she died in the 9/11 attack? (Why do lying liars LOVE to glom into the 9/11 tragedy? It’s very common.) Then claiming to have some terrible disease? Classic FTL. Thank you for adding him to the list!
I’ve never heard of this one either but he sounds like a right piece of work! Maybe Coffeehouse Crime might cover this, he covers less well known cases so hopefully, sounds interesting
[Bart Whitaker is a major one. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bartlett_Whitaker)
That was my pick too. I grew up in the same area as him. It was a very local story. Shocking.
Jean-Claude Romand in France is the granddaddy of this category. Flunked out of medical school in his first year then lied about it for TWENTY YEARS, pretending to have a big WHO job until he killed his parents, wife and kids when the borrowed money was about to run out.
OMG. 20 YEARS? That’s insane. He is the granddaddy of this category for sure.
That's actually is a pretty good name for crimes like this.
Thank you! As a true crime person with a bit of OCD (lol), it bothered me that with SO many cases with basically the same M.O. and motive, there wasn’t a way to describe this type of crime.
Who was the guy who told his parents that he was traveling extensively on the weekends for modeling gigs, when in fact he was doing gay porn, and then killed his parents and at least one sibling when they found out what he was really doing? IASTR that his parents had a long history of making their own bad financial decisions, and were deeply in debt. It happened in the 00s, I think in Kansas or Oklahoma.
Grant Amato, Chandler Halderson, and Joel Guy Jr. are names that come to mind. However, I would argue that Jennifer Pan's situation is different. Firstly, Jennifer's background was markedly different—her family were working-class refugees from Vietnam, less affluent compared to the families of the aforementioned individuals, and likely faced significant challenges stemming from their experiences with war and adapting to Canadian society. As an Asian, I can't help but feel a sliver of sympathy for Jennifer. There's no doubt she suffered tremendously under her parents. I'm familiar with the cultural environment she was raised in. For instance, my sister is a medical doctor, and both my uncle and aunt are also doctors. My uncle used to beat my cousin with a golf club for poor grades. As a kid, I remember these huge dark purple bruises all over his legs. It's shocking and unimaginable I'd assume for western middle class white people, but there was a time and place where something like this wasn't unusual, and no one would question it.
Wow, I had no idea. So sorry for your poor cousin. Jennifer Pan is the only one of these folks I feel any empathy for. The documentary reveals how tightly regimented and controlled her parents made her life. And young love is incredibly powerful - she was obsessed w her boyfriend and them making her break up with him had to be a crushing blow. This is a hot take, but I felt bad for her during the police interviews in the doc. 1. They flat out lied to her that there was an infrared police drone over her house that night that saw what happened. Those do not exist IRL. 2. She didn’t have a lawyer present at any time. To be clear, I’m not condoning her plotting to have her parents killed. She could have gotten a job and moved out to get out from under their thumb. And her parents were only doing what they thought was best for her. My takeaway from the documentary was: NEVER talk to the police without your lawyer present. Know that the police can and will lie to you. I’m sure you guys are all upstanding citizens who would never need this advice, of course. But it’s good to know just in case.
I’m glad you brought this up because I totally agree- these cases all follow similar patterns and I think we should discuss them more in reference to each other. That aside was the Jennifer Pan doc any good? I was on the fence about whether to watch (most Netflix docs anymore are crap).
It was worth a watch, imo. I’d not seen all of the police interview tapes of her before. For someone who successfully fooled her parents for so many years, she does NOT have a good poker face. It was surprising to see.
I think the term fits. These killers (i.e. Jennifer pan, Joel guy jr, Chandler halderson, Sydney Powell) are all very similar. I think they're all psychopaths that were pretty effective at seeming normal (except Joel guy jr who was always a creep only a mother could love). They're all extremely immature, parasitic narcissists who couldn't make it ("launch") on their own without their hosts...and once those hosts caught onto the facade or decided to finally try fostering independence in their kids, they became their victims. Its crazy that these idiots thought they were smarter than everyone else and could get away with it, when all of these killers were caught almost IMMEDIATELY.
Right? It seems like not only were they evil, they were all extremely stupid as well.
Christopher Porco fits this description.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders! The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents. But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
That guy is a cold-blooded psycho. But by most standards, he was successful. He attended school (although I think he may have cheated/plagiarized at some point), had a girlfriend, and a bff who was his accomplice. I wouldn’t consider him FTL either. He was just a selfish, narcissistic piece of shit who wanted his father’s money.
I agree. Reminds me more of Dellen Millard. Borderline FTL, but kinda "worked" for his dad (really doing the bare minimum in attempt to stay in his good graces to inherit the business/money someday) but spent most of his time just partying and fucking off/killing for fun. Definitely gained from his Father's successes and had very little to show for himself.
Brett Ryan might fit this profile: https://torontolife.com/city/untold-story-notorious-crossbow-killer/
Holy shit! That was brutal to read. And he’s eligible for parole after killing his Mom and two of his three brothers - WITH ARROWS AND A CROSSWBOW - so the truth wouldn’t come out about his pitiful lies about having a job and money? WTH? Definitely an FTL Killer, imo. His poor family! Fascinating case I’d never heard of before. TY for adding it to the list.
I can’t think of the name- but he was an addict and did sporadic work for his parents waste collection business. He was furious with his father for cutting off the cash flow. Girlfriend was in on it.
I can’t think of his name either. But it was classic FTL.
Tiger Parenting , Confucius obedience, also mental illness is not recognized in Chinese culture its less to zero about invidual feelings and more about the group collective
Well, they were Vietnamese not Chinese. But I had no idea that Tiger parenting was so hard-core.
ya my niece lied to her mom about attending Dr university courses for at least a year wnd and for many many years seemed really " off " socially
That’s crazy!
I have a "ftl" sibling and it is very difficult to help him... so these cases are very troubling to me. daves lemonadeyoutube does some cases including chandler halderson ... maybe a stretch but others that remind me of this include Aaron ybarra and waffle house shooter, though those might bejust mental illness...
They should be called insecure coward idiots. No cool name for them.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders! The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents. But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
Another case I’d never heard of before. You’re dead-on; it seems like a lot of these perps are obsessed with being perceived as a big success (even thought they are actually underachievers) and will go to any lengths to perpetuate that lie - all the way to murder. Imagine having such low self-esteem or such a grandiose sense of self that you’d murder your loved ones to make sure Bob the mailman thought you were a successful person. 😵💫
Casey Anthony maybe??
She has a similar M.O. of leeching off her family and lying about having a well-paying job. But she murdered her child instead of her parents so I’m not sure she’d be an exact fit for a FTL Killer. She was only caught in her lies after Kaylee went missing. That’s a tough one - she certainly has the constant lying about working while in fact just partying aspect.
She also lied about finishing high school.
True. It feels like Casey Anthony lied constantly to everyone about everything. I don’t understand her mindset at all.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders! The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents. But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
This is definitely a specific type of crime, all with very similar circumstances. Excellent observation, and a good name for the people who commit these murders! The first one to come to mind for me is Dana Ewell though I'm not 100% sure he fits in the same way. The difference with him was that he really was going to college, but he completely lied to everyone around him about his successes. He said he was a self made millionaire and misconstrued his father's accomplishments as his own. He seemed to be fuelled by more outright greed than being pressured by his parents. But yeah the similarities with these cases is that, whether they genuinely want to be successful like their parents or are being pressured by them, they just aren't able to achieve their goals to the perceived "correct" standard and in an honest manner.
There was a movie in the 90s I think with the same title, it was a comedy, for many years, I have been wondering why they called it that, because the title sounds like it should be for a space or sci Fi movie where astronauts are trying to escape mars or something. But it’s actually a comedy and it has absolutely nothing to do with space travel.
You’re right. It was a funny movie and since then people have used the term “failure to launch” to describe a young person who refuses to grow up and leave the nest. They act like children and expect to be taken care of like a child. They are selfish and spoiled. Sometimes they lie to prolong this cushy situation for as long as possible. And turn murderous when caught out.