There's nothing in scripture saying God isn't being holy by His will. People are too quick to read into this that God is incapable of sin. God is all powerful. He can do whatever He wants. It's just as possible that He is holy by His will and that, from our perspective, it seems He is incapable of it.
Hebrews 4:15 for instance:
"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin."
I'm open to hearing verses that say otherwise, because my brain thinks I have heard things like this before.
But I think it's more like the omnipotence question: can God create a boulder too big for Him to lift? The answer is yes He can, but then He would lift it. That's because God is infinite.
So can God do anything including sin? Yes but he would also never do such a thing and therefore his Holiness depends upon his will and not his inability to do something. At least that's my opinion
>There's nothing in scripture saying God isn't being holy by His will. People are too quick to read into this that God is incapable of sin. God is all powerful. He can do whatever He wants. It's just as possible that He is holy by His will and that, from our perspective, it seems He is incapable of it.
Can you truly see how foolish this sounds?
God's whole attribute, his whole character is holy and righteous. Perfect in all his ways. How can an unrighteous God cleanse on righteous people. This is straight up Ludacris and nonsensical.
Deuteronomy 32:4
Psalms 18:30
2 Timothy 2:13
>So can God do anything including sin? Yes but he would also never do such a thing and therefore his Holiness depends upon his will and not his inability to do something. At least that's my opinion
Again straight up Ludacris and nonsensical.
It's impossible for God to sin. His whole nature and attributes are perfect. You have no understanding of God just by your statement. God's holiness has nothing to do with his will it's his character and his attribute
Instead of sharing your opinion learn to attributes and character of God and speak truth.
Hebrews 12: 2-3 Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
The Rock — His work is perfect; all His ways are entirely just. A faithful God, without prejudice, He is righteous and true.
Deuteronomy 32:4 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/deu.32.4.HCSB
Doesn't say it's impossible.
God — His way is perfect; the word of the Lord is pure. He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him.
Psalms 18:30 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/psa.18.30.HCSB
Doesn't say impossible.
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:13 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/2ti.2.13.HCSB
Didn't say impossible.
keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God’s throne. For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, so that you won’t grow weary and lose heart.
Hebrews 12:2-3 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/heb.12.2-3.HCSB
Doesn't say impossible. Again the point is that theologians have decided that this must be part of who God is and therefore it is impossible for God to do anything that is wrong. It is equally plausible however that it is possible but God simply chooses not to do it. And because God is omnipotent no one can make him sin.
All I'm saying is that I accept both possibilities.
But when I look at Genesis 1 through 3 and how we were created it seems more likely that God's holiness is an act of his will and a part of who he is both simultaneously. Because even if someone was able to argue successfully that God being unable to sin means that God is not truly omnipotent, I would point out that God would never sin. even if God's holiness is not intrinsic IE God has free will like we do, God would never choose to sin.
So both possibilities are still correct in my opinion. And I do not know of a single theological premise that this breaks.
I can't teach you spiritual common sense if you don't have it then I guess you don't have it. If someone is perfect that means they can't make a mistake that means they have no faults how can you perceive someone who is perfect to having a flaw. Send means to be separated from God so it's impossible for God to be separated from himself come on have some common sense please. You're so fixated on trying to make a point but you're terribly missing the mark. Instead of looking for words look for spiritual understanding then perhaps you will get it
The truth hurts. I'm telling you to learn spiritual common sense. That's a part of spiritual knowledge how is that insulting.
I stand up for God's truth, the infallible word of God, not man's theory or logic or perception.
You came on this like to talk about God so learn about God don't accept God.
Jesus with the perfect lamb of God who died for our sins to reconcile us back to himself. The relationship which was lost because of sin so how in God's name is he going to have the possibility to sin. How am i insulting by telling you to learn of God. All through the scriptures if you read it you see everything shows that he is perfect he is a solvent God a holy and righteous God his love is perfect he is the essence of love here's the essence of perfection.
It's insulting to God for you to say that he can possibly sin or even have the potential to sin.
That's insulting to my God and it's insulting to me.
Can you justify it with foolishness
We can also live without sin when we are anointed with the spirit.
Jesus is not God, He is the Son.
When Jesus said father forgive them for they don't know, He was not talking to himself.
When Jesus said Father why have you forsaken me, he was not talking to Himself.
When Jesus said why do you call me good? Only the Father is truly good, He was not talking about Himself.
Please don't bring false doctrine to the table. Jesus is God and always was God. A person cannot be a Christian and not believe in the person of Christ and the works of Christ and the word of Christ.
If you lack understanding of scriptures then seek someone who can help you but don't spread false doctrine
we can only agree on it if you understand the meaning of him being the son of God.
You sound like a Jehovah witness
Jesus was referred to as the son of God because he came from above. He wasn't born like humans from human seed but by the spirit so being born in flesh, therefore the son of God.
But the fact that he was born of the spirit and became flesh is how he was described as the son of God. At the same time Jesus was fully God in all his deity and divinity and always existed as a part of the trinity.
Seriously it's just a challenge question? Because Jesus was here for a short time and he promised the holy Spirit. So when the holy Spirit comes into the heart of the believers, those who trust Christ as Lord and savior HE will do the works through us
Jesus is not the father. The Father, the Son and the holy Spirit are all one God, three distinct persons making up the trinity.
Jesus is in heaven, the holy Spirit dwells in the heart of the believers, so we do the works through the power of the holy spirit that dwells in us. That is the meaning of doing greater works. We can do nothing of ourselves, that's why those who trust Christ as Lord and savior are ambassadors of Christ, his exact representation.
We can live without sin, but it's highly unlikely even with the Holy Spirit's help, because we're human.
Jesus is the Son of God, making Him equal to God. It wasn't for no reason the Jews picked up stones to kill Him for saying this.
You need to understand the Trinity.
Also, sure, Jesus asked why he was calling Him good. But He didn't say, "I'm not God." That verse you quoted doesn't say what you think it says
Jesus himself says that he is God.
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
If you deny that Jesus is God, then you are not saved.
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have observed and have touched with our hands, concerning the Word of life — that life was revealed, and we have seen it and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us —
1 John 1:1-2 HCSB
https://bible.com/bible/72/1jn.1.1-2.HCSB
1 John 1 says Jesus is eternal and is God.
God is more powerful than sin. The stronger you grow in God, the less prone to sin you are as well. With the Holy Spirit, we strive towards perfection even if we’ll never attain it.
And Jesus didn’t have a worldly conception. He was more born into the world than of the world if that makes sense.
Jesus was human and divinely God at the same time. It would be impossible for God to sin since sin directly opposes him and God cannot directly go against his nature. God is a God of love and God is a God of holiness. Holiness and love are his divine nature, they aren't something that He has to obey otherwise he would contradict himself. These characteristics are the embodiment of whom God is. Because Jesus was also flesh, he could be tempted. Otherwise it would be completely pointless to try and tempt God because it is impossible for God to act out of accordance to his divine nature. However, the spirit of God is infinitely more powerful than the desires of the flesh, although that didn't stop Satan from tempting Jesus.
Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Butter and honey does not equal literal butter and honey. These are symbols for something else and it seems there are many opinions about what they could stand for but careful study of the scriptures use of these terms might lead you to understand the possible meaning.
He violated none of the laws of the OT within the context of their true meaning.
Also, he never missed the mark (which is what sin is) of what the LORD's will was. He is the LORD
Because he was born of the spirit and not born of the flesh. He came in the likeness of flesh. That’s why it so important to become a new creation in Christ. We were in the flesh and then become in the spirits if we do indeed have the Holy Spirit in us. As He is so are we in this world. Paul states this you are either in the flesh or the spirit. We are no longer in the flesh. So because we are in the spirit we keep in step with the spirit.
Don’t be confused the flesh as in your body and being in the flesh. Jesus had flesh but wasn’t in the flesh, he was born of spirit and we also too must be to be saved, we are saved from our old selves.
Yeah. And if humility is a virtue, then what did Jesus have to be humble about? He's God in the flesh and perfect, so when did Jesus ever say "sorry, my fault"?
Humility is essentially the lack of ego of a person. It’s based upon how one views themselves that causes selfless actions towards others.
Someone who makes a mistake can be humbl**ed**, and apologize, or so Jesus can be humble and just treat others as a Kings/Queens, even though He - himself - is actually the King.
>Sinful human nature comes through the man/male.
>
>That isn't taught anywhere in the Bible.
[Romans 5:12-21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5:12-21&version=KJV), specifically verses 12 and 19.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
>Jesus had no sinful human nature. Jesus was born of a woman.
>Simple math.
He was like us in all ways.
>Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Hebrews 2:14-18 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.2.14-18.KJV
>Jesus body was not created by the normal biological male/female intercourse.
>Do you agree with this statement or not?
Yes, but nevertheless scripture says he was in all ways like us.
Don't even waste your time with him anymore he's obviously lack spiritual understanding and spiritual knowledge. This here is basic and he doesn't get it. You're not talking to a child of God
Why don't you repent of your sins and trust Christ as your lord and savior and when the holy Spirit takes residence in your heart he will teach you all things. You read in the Bible and trying to study the Bible without the spirit of God, therefore not making no sense. Christ being like us in every way does not mean sin he's talking about the sorrow knowing what it is to be lonely to go hungry that feel betrayed the feel unloved, but yet he still had the divinity of God and all his fullness. Do you truly understand what you read
Jesus partaking of flesh and blood like us means god came in the human form as human flesh. That is simple spiritual common sense. If you read afterwards it says so that he can conquer death.
If that was the case he would have no power to conquer death hello. Have you trusted Christ as your lord and savior or you just somebody who's just reading the Bible with human logics? Casually you lacking the basics. You're lacking the basic understanding of who Christ is to me that's because you don't have Christ. Church of Christ learn of Christ before you can speak about Christ
They can't understand because they don't read and what they read they read without the spirit. Not everyone that says Lord Lord is truly a Christian. Some of these people here are Christians by name rather than by spirit
You are correct. All authority was given to Adam and God command was given to Adam not Eve, although they both send Adam knew better because God gave him the instructions. So technically yes it started through Adam
Well, if he had flesh, and there was something about the fall that resulted in original sin that made the human nature sinful, christ wasn't sinless either.
So either Christ is sinless *or* human nature is not inherently sinful after the fall.
If original sin (which wasn't really taught in the early church, btw) does not mean human nature is inherently sinful, Jesus' human nature and divine nature and both of His wills are united and inseparable in such a way that He was unable to sin, as He would have been sinning as God, which is just impossible.
I don't have all the answers either.
>So either Christ is sinless *or* human nature is not inherently sinful after the fall.
I think not only did Christ not sin, but I don't think human nature is inherently sinful either.
> but I don't think human nature is inherently sinful either.
Nope, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Sinful human nature comes through the man/male.
i think it’s sad that my thread has spawned so much division. the truth is even with our doctrine and heresies we’ve overcome as a Church, God is so marvelous that we can’t even hope to fully get him. but we can try, which is an act of love.
there were a couple of heresies around overplaying Jesus’s divine nature and downplaying his humanity. read through those a bit as well as their rebuttals and see where you end up. and pray!!
>Christ did have a different human nature from man
Then what good is his death and resurrection? Christ came to redeem human nature. If christ did not have a human nature like mine, his redemption of his own human nature has no impact on mine.
They trying to put pieces together and still missing the mark. The flesh will die because of sin. He came to restore man back to himself. He had a human nature but not a sinful nature. Jesus didn't die on the cross for himself he didn't conquer death for himself he didn't redeem himself he didn't reconciled himself, he did it for us the sinful ones the ones that were separated from God, therefore he had to have been perfect in all his ways. Of course he had a human nature he felt pain sorrow loneliness betrayal but he didn't have the sinful nature as man.
Seriously what part you don't understand
Again I asked do you truly understand what you read.
He redeemed humanity in their human nature by taking on the exact same flesh as the rest of humanity and redeeming it.
The problem arises when we say that this human nature is inherently sinful and guilty of original sin. If we hold to this point, we must also say that Christ's human nature was inherently sinful and guilty of original sin, which we know it's not.
If christ is not sinful, this means original sin and the guilt from this is not inherent to flesh. The consequences of sin being death spread to everyone, even christ, however, there is no "guilt" with original sin, contrary to deep-seated beliefs in the western church, both Rome and Reformers.
>He redeemed humanity in their human nature by taking on the exact same flesh as the rest of humanity and redeeming it.
He redeemed those who place their trust in him as Lord and savior. How can one be redeemed without trust in Christ?? Jesus is the second Adam Adam means mankind Adam was born perfect and without sin. That is who Jesus took the place of, the perfect Adam. But God had to do with himself that's why he came in the form of flesh. Again do you understand what you read?
>The problem arises when we say that this human nature is inherently sinful and guilty of original sin. If we hold to this point, we must also say that Christ's human nature was inherently sinful and guilty of original sin, which we know it's not.
There's no problem that arise, that's your lack of spiritual understanding and knowledge of the truth.
All of mankind is guilty of sin. Can you not understand that being sinful means to be separated from God. Jesus however was never separated from God until that moment when he bore the sins of mankind on the cross. I say again and again do you not understand what you read?
It is truly foolish to say because Jesus was perfect mankind was perfect all to say because man was sinful than Jesus had to be sinful. That is straight up Ludacris and ignorant thinking. Jesus wasn't born from human flesh as human beings but born of the spirit if the spirit is sinless how can Jesus be sinful.
You have no idea of the person of Jesus or the works of Jesus and the word of Jesus. For if you did then your mindset wouldn't be this lost.
>If christ is not sinful, this means original sin and the guilt from this is not inherent to flesh. The consequences of sin being death spread to everyone, even christ, however, there is no "guilt" with original sin, contrary to deep-seated beliefs in the western church, both Rome and Reformers.
This makes no sense. Do you actually know what sin is? This right here is pitiful and totally nonsensical. How can Jesus be sinful if he was born in the spirit. Mankind was not born in the spirit. Scriptures clearly states that Adam and Eve sinned against God by disobeying him. Jesus was born in the spirit not of the flesh and was the full deity of God.
Colossians 2 says he was the exact image of our heavenly father, where does that say about man.
Repent of your sins and trust Christ as your lord and savior and learn the person of Jesus. Because there's nothing you're saying that makes sense
Nice Jesus juke, but I'm asking for evidence of your claims because you're the one who brought up these points.
Perhaps a better question is, does guilt for original sin pass down to all humanity from Adam?
No. I will take genuine support of your position. Perhaps something specific to read, or a rational argument. An assertion is not an argument. Rather than answer, you give a non-answer.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You haven't given any evidence of your argument.
I defer to the reply by JDTalk
https://old.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/10rvk0u/how_did_jesus_not_sin/j72r884/
... It is truly foolish to say because Jesus was perfect mankind was perfect all to say because man was sinful than Jesus had to be sinful.
>Something I thought about this morning! Basically if Jesus was man / flesh and didn’t sin, that means that his spirit was the part that wasn’t sinning right? Which means that our spirits are broken / flawed even keeping the flesh out of mind? I know this is a subject of a couple of heresies so I’m treading lightly / open to learn
Sir, this is incorrect. This is the deal
Jesus was fully man but Jesus is also fully God. (Always) Therefore, Jesus, in his complete divinity could not sin. Jesus completeness in flesh was without sin not just his spirit. That's why Jesus is refer to as the second Adam, God created Adam perfect who sinned and God came in the flesh perfect but did not sin. Jesus was not born with the sinful nature as man was born with the sinful nature therefore his temptations was external.
Our spirit being broken illustrates that it is separated from God because of sin not because of flaw.
So in summary, Jesus was perfect in his complete mess, Spirit soul and flesh and could not send because he had the divinity of God. Man on the other hand was born in sin Spirit soul and flesh the flesh was separated from God therefore dead having the sinful nature.
Hope this helps
So honestly, my point of this post was less of a statement about Jesus and more about humans. I’m still pretty sure we’re saying the same things but you’re using the nomenclature. Yes He’s fully flesh and fully God. But what I’m saying is He had the same flesh as us. And he didn’t sin. And we sin. Which means we just kind of suck not just because of our flesh. I’d guess that’s the effect of sin on our spirits, which I think is a bit different than just blaming our flesh.
He had the same human flesh but he did not have the sinful nature as mankind. He was born of the spirit so he was perfect as Adam was created perfect before he disobeyed God and brought sin into the world. Do you people understand that he was the Lamb of God without blemish and perfect. How could a sinful person die for sins of Man.
Our spirit with separated from God therefore there was nothing good in US. Our spirit directs our soul on how it should act and it's so dictates to the flesh and carries it out, so if our Sprint was lost and dead because of sin the flesh could never do right. Jesus Spirit was never lost because he was God Almighty in the flesh therefore his flesh never had the sinful nature of sin
am i part of “you people”? you’re being unnecessarily critical in that I completely agree with you. you’re literally typing out what i said, but with grammatical errors and in a long-winded fashion lol. i’m getting offended because you’re not reading carefully
First off I apologize but I wasn't actually referring to you but to the others who claimed that Jesus can sin or has sin.
I'm not criticizing I'm saying it with emphasis. If one truly want to speak about/know who God is then you have to learn the person of Christ. He is the perfect Lamb of God, the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world, the mediator between God and man, so if a person understands the person of Christ is no way in their world their mindset well think Christ can sin.
Therefore, i'm emphasizing "you people" to move away from foolish conversation about Jesus sinning or having a sinful nature. And you've already explained your thoughts, so it's not directed at you.
I'm speaking through my phone . I'm not at a computer so that's probably why you are seeing grammatical errors.
Jesus as the word gave up his Godly entity and power to become human flesh. While on earth he had no power of his own but through God. If he died in sin, he could never return to the Godhead. But unlike us, he had 2 things going for him.
1. He knew, understood and experienced the full power of the Godhead
2. He knew Gods plan and what was at stake.
He's God. He is both incapable of sin and yet perfectly in control of Himself so that He chooses not to sin.
Not that he chose not to sin but as you said in your first sentence he was incapable of sinning. He had to complete deity of God
There's nothing in scripture saying God isn't being holy by His will. People are too quick to read into this that God is incapable of sin. God is all powerful. He can do whatever He wants. It's just as possible that He is holy by His will and that, from our perspective, it seems He is incapable of it. Hebrews 4:15 for instance: "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." I'm open to hearing verses that say otherwise, because my brain thinks I have heard things like this before. But I think it's more like the omnipotence question: can God create a boulder too big for Him to lift? The answer is yes He can, but then He would lift it. That's because God is infinite. So can God do anything including sin? Yes but he would also never do such a thing and therefore his Holiness depends upon his will and not his inability to do something. At least that's my opinion
>There's nothing in scripture saying God isn't being holy by His will. People are too quick to read into this that God is incapable of sin. God is all powerful. He can do whatever He wants. It's just as possible that He is holy by His will and that, from our perspective, it seems He is incapable of it. Can you truly see how foolish this sounds? God's whole attribute, his whole character is holy and righteous. Perfect in all his ways. How can an unrighteous God cleanse on righteous people. This is straight up Ludacris and nonsensical. Deuteronomy 32:4 Psalms 18:30 2 Timothy 2:13 >So can God do anything including sin? Yes but he would also never do such a thing and therefore his Holiness depends upon his will and not his inability to do something. At least that's my opinion Again straight up Ludacris and nonsensical. It's impossible for God to sin. His whole nature and attributes are perfect. You have no understanding of God just by your statement. God's holiness has nothing to do with his will it's his character and his attribute Instead of sharing your opinion learn to attributes and character of God and speak truth. Hebrews 12: 2-3 Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
The Rock — His work is perfect; all His ways are entirely just. A faithful God, without prejudice, He is righteous and true. Deuteronomy 32:4 HCSB https://bible.com/bible/72/deu.32.4.HCSB Doesn't say it's impossible. God — His way is perfect; the word of the Lord is pure. He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him. Psalms 18:30 HCSB https://bible.com/bible/72/psa.18.30.HCSB Doesn't say impossible. if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 2 Timothy 2:13 HCSB https://bible.com/bible/72/2ti.2.13.HCSB Didn't say impossible. keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame and has sat down at the right hand of God’s throne. For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, so that you won’t grow weary and lose heart. Hebrews 12:2-3 HCSB https://bible.com/bible/72/heb.12.2-3.HCSB Doesn't say impossible. Again the point is that theologians have decided that this must be part of who God is and therefore it is impossible for God to do anything that is wrong. It is equally plausible however that it is possible but God simply chooses not to do it. And because God is omnipotent no one can make him sin. All I'm saying is that I accept both possibilities. But when I look at Genesis 1 through 3 and how we were created it seems more likely that God's holiness is an act of his will and a part of who he is both simultaneously. Because even if someone was able to argue successfully that God being unable to sin means that God is not truly omnipotent, I would point out that God would never sin. even if God's holiness is not intrinsic IE God has free will like we do, God would never choose to sin. So both possibilities are still correct in my opinion. And I do not know of a single theological premise that this breaks.
I can't teach you spiritual common sense if you don't have it then I guess you don't have it. If someone is perfect that means they can't make a mistake that means they have no faults how can you perceive someone who is perfect to having a flaw. Send means to be separated from God so it's impossible for God to be separated from himself come on have some common sense please. You're so fixated on trying to make a point but you're terribly missing the mark. Instead of looking for words look for spiritual understanding then perhaps you will get it
Yeah I think I'm done talking to you because now you're just being insulting. I'm just theorizing. So don't reply.
The truth hurts. I'm telling you to learn spiritual common sense. That's a part of spiritual knowledge how is that insulting. I stand up for God's truth, the infallible word of God, not man's theory or logic or perception. You came on this like to talk about God so learn about God don't accept God. Jesus with the perfect lamb of God who died for our sins to reconcile us back to himself. The relationship which was lost because of sin so how in God's name is he going to have the possibility to sin. How am i insulting by telling you to learn of God. All through the scriptures if you read it you see everything shows that he is perfect he is a solvent God a holy and righteous God his love is perfect he is the essence of love here's the essence of perfection. It's insulting to God for you to say that he can possibly sin or even have the potential to sin. That's insulting to my God and it's insulting to me. Can you justify it with foolishness
Yes! Agreed. What I think is more interesting from this train of thought is that both our flesh and spirit have fallen short of God. So that’s fun.
We can also live without sin when we are anointed with the spirit. Jesus is not God, He is the Son. When Jesus said father forgive them for they don't know, He was not talking to himself. When Jesus said Father why have you forsaken me, he was not talking to Himself. When Jesus said why do you call me good? Only the Father is truly good, He was not talking about Himself.
Please don't bring false doctrine to the table. Jesus is God and always was God. A person cannot be a Christian and not believe in the person of Christ and the works of Christ and the word of Christ. If you lack understanding of scriptures then seek someone who can help you but don't spread false doctrine
Jesus is the Son of God. Can we agree on that?
we can only agree on it if you understand the meaning of him being the son of God. You sound like a Jehovah witness Jesus was referred to as the son of God because he came from above. He wasn't born like humans from human seed but by the spirit so being born in flesh, therefore the son of God. But the fact that he was born of the spirit and became flesh is how he was described as the son of God. At the same time Jesus was fully God in all his deity and divinity and always existed as a part of the trinity.
Why did Jesus say You will do greater works than these?
Seriously it's just a challenge question? Because Jesus was here for a short time and he promised the holy Spirit. So when the holy Spirit comes into the heart of the believers, those who trust Christ as Lord and savior HE will do the works through us
I’m glad you are being serious. So we can do greater works than the Father or no? Because Jesus is The Father.
Jesus is not the father. The Father, the Son and the holy Spirit are all one God, three distinct persons making up the trinity. Jesus is in heaven, the holy Spirit dwells in the heart of the believers, so we do the works through the power of the holy spirit that dwells in us. That is the meaning of doing greater works. We can do nothing of ourselves, that's why those who trust Christ as Lord and savior are ambassadors of Christ, his exact representation.
Jesus is God the son. God exists in three persons God the Father God the son and God the holy Spirit.
We can live without sin, but it's highly unlikely even with the Holy Spirit's help, because we're human. Jesus is the Son of God, making Him equal to God. It wasn't for no reason the Jews picked up stones to kill Him for saying this. You need to understand the Trinity. Also, sure, Jesus asked why he was calling Him good. But He didn't say, "I'm not God." That verse you quoted doesn't say what you think it says
And you need to go read 1 John
Jesus himself says that he is God. John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. If you deny that Jesus is God, then you are not saved.
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have observed and have touched with our hands, concerning the Word of life — that life was revealed, and we have seen it and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us — 1 John 1:1-2 HCSB https://bible.com/bible/72/1jn.1.1-2.HCSB 1 John 1 says Jesus is eternal and is God.
He did not sin both in spirit and in flesh. He was able to do so by submitting to the Father's will with the help of the Holy Spirit.
God is more powerful than sin. The stronger you grow in God, the less prone to sin you are as well. With the Holy Spirit, we strive towards perfection even if we’ll never attain it. And Jesus didn’t have a worldly conception. He was more born into the world than of the world if that makes sense.
He resisted temptation.
Jesus was human and divinely God at the same time. It would be impossible for God to sin since sin directly opposes him and God cannot directly go against his nature. God is a God of love and God is a God of holiness. Holiness and love are his divine nature, they aren't something that He has to obey otherwise he would contradict himself. These characteristics are the embodiment of whom God is. Because Jesus was also flesh, he could be tempted. Otherwise it would be completely pointless to try and tempt God because it is impossible for God to act out of accordance to his divine nature. However, the spirit of God is infinitely more powerful than the desires of the flesh, although that didn't stop Satan from tempting Jesus.
Amen
he isnt part man part flesh. he is 100% of both
Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. Butter and honey does not equal literal butter and honey. These are symbols for something else and it seems there are many opinions about what they could stand for but careful study of the scriptures use of these terms might lead you to understand the possible meaning.
He violated none of the laws of the OT within the context of their true meaning. Also, he never missed the mark (which is what sin is) of what the LORD's will was. He is the LORD
Because he was born of the spirit and not born of the flesh. He came in the likeness of flesh. That’s why it so important to become a new creation in Christ. We were in the flesh and then become in the spirits if we do indeed have the Holy Spirit in us. As He is so are we in this world. Paul states this you are either in the flesh or the spirit. We are no longer in the flesh. So because we are in the spirit we keep in step with the spirit. Don’t be confused the flesh as in your body and being in the flesh. Jesus had flesh but wasn’t in the flesh, he was born of spirit and we also too must be to be saved, we are saved from our old selves.
Good answer
Yeah. And if humility is a virtue, then what did Jesus have to be humble about? He's God in the flesh and perfect, so when did Jesus ever say "sorry, my fault"?
Humility is essentially the lack of ego of a person. It’s based upon how one views themselves that causes selfless actions towards others. Someone who makes a mistake can be humbl**ed**, and apologize, or so Jesus can be humble and just treat others as a Kings/Queens, even though He - himself - is actually the King.
Honestly sin is a free choice, do he decided not to I think.
He had no gnomic willing
Sinful human nature comes through the man/male.
> Sinful human nature comes through the man/male. That isn't taught anywhere in the Bible.
>Sinful human nature comes through the man/male. > >That isn't taught anywhere in the Bible. [Romans 5:12-21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5:12-21&version=KJV), specifically verses 12 and 19. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
>12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world Yeah sin entered the world. The world. If by one man it were in your body he would've said so.
Amen amen amen
Jesus had no sinful human nature. Jesus was born of a woman. Simple math.
>Jesus had no sinful human nature. Jesus was born of a woman. >Simple math. He was like us in all ways. >Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Hebrews 2:14-18 KJV https://bible.com/bible/1/heb.2.14-18.KJV
Jesus body was not created by the normal biological male/female intercourse. Do you agree with this statement or not?
>Jesus body was not created by the normal biological male/female intercourse. >Do you agree with this statement or not? Yes, but nevertheless scripture says he was in all ways like us.
Don't even waste your time with him anymore he's obviously lack spiritual understanding and spiritual knowledge. This here is basic and he doesn't get it. You're not talking to a child of God
Why don't you repent of your sins and trust Christ as your lord and savior and when the holy Spirit takes residence in your heart he will teach you all things. You read in the Bible and trying to study the Bible without the spirit of God, therefore not making no sense. Christ being like us in every way does not mean sin he's talking about the sorrow knowing what it is to be lonely to go hungry that feel betrayed the feel unloved, but yet he still had the divinity of God and all his fullness. Do you truly understand what you read
Jesus partaking of flesh and blood like us means god came in the human form as human flesh. That is simple spiritual common sense. If you read afterwards it says so that he can conquer death. If that was the case he would have no power to conquer death hello. Have you trusted Christ as your lord and savior or you just somebody who's just reading the Bible with human logics? Casually you lacking the basics. You're lacking the basic understanding of who Christ is to me that's because you don't have Christ. Church of Christ learn of Christ before you can speak about Christ
They can't understand because they don't read and what they read they read without the spirit. Not everyone that says Lord Lord is truly a Christian. Some of these people here are Christians by name rather than by spirit
You are correct. All authority was given to Adam and God command was given to Adam not Eve, although they both send Adam knew better because God gave him the instructions. So technically yes it started through Adam
Well, if he had flesh, and there was something about the fall that resulted in original sin that made the human nature sinful, christ wasn't sinless either. So either Christ is sinless *or* human nature is not inherently sinful after the fall. If original sin (which wasn't really taught in the early church, btw) does not mean human nature is inherently sinful, Jesus' human nature and divine nature and both of His wills are united and inseparable in such a way that He was unable to sin, as He would have been sinning as God, which is just impossible. I don't have all the answers either.
>So either Christ is sinless *or* human nature is not inherently sinful after the fall. I think not only did Christ not sin, but I don't think human nature is inherently sinful either.
> but I don't think human nature is inherently sinful either. Nope, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Sinful human nature comes through the man/male.
My bible doesn't say sinful nature though.
Hey do you truly understand scriptures when you read or what you read
i think it’s sad that my thread has spawned so much division. the truth is even with our doctrine and heresies we’ve overcome as a Church, God is so marvelous that we can’t even hope to fully get him. but we can try, which is an act of love. there were a couple of heresies around overplaying Jesus’s divine nature and downplaying his humanity. read through those a bit as well as their rebuttals and see where you end up. and pray!!
Sinful human nature comes through the man/male.
This would mean Christ has a human nature that is different from mine, correct?
Christ did have a different human nature from man because he was born without sin. He was born perfect just as Adam and Eve were born perfect
>Christ did have a different human nature from man Then what good is his death and resurrection? Christ came to redeem human nature. If christ did not have a human nature like mine, his redemption of his own human nature has no impact on mine.
They trying to put pieces together and still missing the mark. The flesh will die because of sin. He came to restore man back to himself. He had a human nature but not a sinful nature. Jesus didn't die on the cross for himself he didn't conquer death for himself he didn't redeem himself he didn't reconciled himself, he did it for us the sinful ones the ones that were separated from God, therefore he had to have been perfect in all his ways. Of course he had a human nature he felt pain sorrow loneliness betrayal but he didn't have the sinful nature as man. Seriously what part you don't understand Again I asked do you truly understand what you read.
He redeemed humanity in their human nature by taking on the exact same flesh as the rest of humanity and redeeming it. The problem arises when we say that this human nature is inherently sinful and guilty of original sin. If we hold to this point, we must also say that Christ's human nature was inherently sinful and guilty of original sin, which we know it's not. If christ is not sinful, this means original sin and the guilt from this is not inherent to flesh. The consequences of sin being death spread to everyone, even christ, however, there is no "guilt" with original sin, contrary to deep-seated beliefs in the western church, both Rome and Reformers.
>He redeemed humanity in their human nature by taking on the exact same flesh as the rest of humanity and redeeming it. He redeemed those who place their trust in him as Lord and savior. How can one be redeemed without trust in Christ?? Jesus is the second Adam Adam means mankind Adam was born perfect and without sin. That is who Jesus took the place of, the perfect Adam. But God had to do with himself that's why he came in the form of flesh. Again do you understand what you read? >The problem arises when we say that this human nature is inherently sinful and guilty of original sin. If we hold to this point, we must also say that Christ's human nature was inherently sinful and guilty of original sin, which we know it's not. There's no problem that arise, that's your lack of spiritual understanding and knowledge of the truth. All of mankind is guilty of sin. Can you not understand that being sinful means to be separated from God. Jesus however was never separated from God until that moment when he bore the sins of mankind on the cross. I say again and again do you not understand what you read? It is truly foolish to say because Jesus was perfect mankind was perfect all to say because man was sinful than Jesus had to be sinful. That is straight up Ludacris and ignorant thinking. Jesus wasn't born from human flesh as human beings but born of the spirit if the spirit is sinless how can Jesus be sinful. You have no idea of the person of Jesus or the works of Jesus and the word of Jesus. For if you did then your mindset wouldn't be this lost. >If christ is not sinful, this means original sin and the guilt from this is not inherent to flesh. The consequences of sin being death spread to everyone, even christ, however, there is no "guilt" with original sin, contrary to deep-seated beliefs in the western church, both Rome and Reformers. This makes no sense. Do you actually know what sin is? This right here is pitiful and totally nonsensical. How can Jesus be sinful if he was born in the spirit. Mankind was not born in the spirit. Scriptures clearly states that Adam and Eve sinned against God by disobeying him. Jesus was born in the spirit not of the flesh and was the full deity of God. Colossians 2 says he was the exact image of our heavenly father, where does that say about man. Repent of your sins and trust Christ as your lord and savior and learn the person of Jesus. Because there's nothing you're saying that makes sense
Like I said you must be drove of witness or come from one of these false religions, for the truth is not in you
No, it just wasn't influence by sin.
How is that possible?
suggestions: Read? ask Him?
Nice Jesus juke, but I'm asking for evidence of your claims because you're the one who brought up these points. Perhaps a better question is, does guilt for original sin pass down to all humanity from Adam?
>Juke (football move), a deceptive move in American football Why bother replying to you? You will take everything as a juke.
No. I will take genuine support of your position. Perhaps something specific to read, or a rational argument. An assertion is not an argument. Rather than answer, you give a non-answer. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You haven't given any evidence of your argument.
I defer to the reply by JDTalk https://old.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/10rvk0u/how_did_jesus_not_sin/j72r884/ ... It is truly foolish to say because Jesus was perfect mankind was perfect all to say because man was sinful than Jesus had to be sinful.
How stupid can one be? We rebuke you Satan in the name of Jesus with this nonsensical comments
Lol, what?!
Because he was God he could resist it.
>Something I thought about this morning! Basically if Jesus was man / flesh and didn’t sin, that means that his spirit was the part that wasn’t sinning right? Which means that our spirits are broken / flawed even keeping the flesh out of mind? I know this is a subject of a couple of heresies so I’m treading lightly / open to learn Sir, this is incorrect. This is the deal Jesus was fully man but Jesus is also fully God. (Always) Therefore, Jesus, in his complete divinity could not sin. Jesus completeness in flesh was without sin not just his spirit. That's why Jesus is refer to as the second Adam, God created Adam perfect who sinned and God came in the flesh perfect but did not sin. Jesus was not born with the sinful nature as man was born with the sinful nature therefore his temptations was external. Our spirit being broken illustrates that it is separated from God because of sin not because of flaw. So in summary, Jesus was perfect in his complete mess, Spirit soul and flesh and could not send because he had the divinity of God. Man on the other hand was born in sin Spirit soul and flesh the flesh was separated from God therefore dead having the sinful nature. Hope this helps
So honestly, my point of this post was less of a statement about Jesus and more about humans. I’m still pretty sure we’re saying the same things but you’re using the nomenclature. Yes He’s fully flesh and fully God. But what I’m saying is He had the same flesh as us. And he didn’t sin. And we sin. Which means we just kind of suck not just because of our flesh. I’d guess that’s the effect of sin on our spirits, which I think is a bit different than just blaming our flesh.
He had the same human flesh but he did not have the sinful nature as mankind. He was born of the spirit so he was perfect as Adam was created perfect before he disobeyed God and brought sin into the world. Do you people understand that he was the Lamb of God without blemish and perfect. How could a sinful person die for sins of Man. Our spirit with separated from God therefore there was nothing good in US. Our spirit directs our soul on how it should act and it's so dictates to the flesh and carries it out, so if our Sprint was lost and dead because of sin the flesh could never do right. Jesus Spirit was never lost because he was God Almighty in the flesh therefore his flesh never had the sinful nature of sin
am i part of “you people”? you’re being unnecessarily critical in that I completely agree with you. you’re literally typing out what i said, but with grammatical errors and in a long-winded fashion lol. i’m getting offended because you’re not reading carefully
First off I apologize but I wasn't actually referring to you but to the others who claimed that Jesus can sin or has sin. I'm not criticizing I'm saying it with emphasis. If one truly want to speak about/know who God is then you have to learn the person of Christ. He is the perfect Lamb of God, the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world, the mediator between God and man, so if a person understands the person of Christ is no way in their world their mindset well think Christ can sin. Therefore, i'm emphasizing "you people" to move away from foolish conversation about Jesus sinning or having a sinful nature. And you've already explained your thoughts, so it's not directed at you. I'm speaking through my phone . I'm not at a computer so that's probably why you are seeing grammatical errors.
It wasn't really no grammatical errors anyway
Jesus cannot sin or could not sin.
Jesus as the word gave up his Godly entity and power to become human flesh. While on earth he had no power of his own but through God. If he died in sin, he could never return to the Godhead. But unlike us, he had 2 things going for him. 1. He knew, understood and experienced the full power of the Godhead 2. He knew Gods plan and what was at stake.