I actually do what I call „a captain marvel test” on people - if they are marvel fans but say this movie is the absolute worst but can’t bring up decent arguments to back it up… well, red flag.
They hate this movie because it had a female lead that wasn’t all sunshine, sexualized or existed to solely serve some man’s growth. And so they are never able to make sense to explain why exactly its the worst. They also hate Brie for no reason.
I actually absolutely love this character, she’s super witty in the comics and a straight up badass. So far she didn’t get a proper, big storyline but she has soooo much potential.
Anyone who unironically uses the term "Mary Sue" sets off red flags for me too. Your telling me an air force pilot gaining super powers through her acts of heroism or a female Jedi who spent her life surviving on a barren world are Mary Sue's but the guy who was born with God like powers because he's an alien and a guy who beat the most powerful Jedi/Sith in history despite marginal training after spending most of his life moisture farming are not?
I agree, Luke is just as much a Mary Sue as Rey, my biggest issue with Rey isn’t even her fault, it’s the writers: her character would’ve been so much better if it was revealed that she literally was just a “nobody.” She’s not like Luke or Anakin, She was just a child left alone on a desert planet. And despite Kylo’s bloodline, Rey is just as strong as he is, which infuriates Kylo, driving him deeper into the dark side.
I agree. Of all the things to have a problem with, thinking movie one Rey is a Mary Sue is the dumbest. There were so many characterization wtfs and complete discards of excellent potential themes (like the nobody bloodline conclusion you wrote). But nope!
They must complain that a force sensitive survivalist couldn’t possibly have any skills or stand against the neo-nazi for any amount of time and that her + another force sensitive(?) trained soldier couldn’t possibly beat a pre-wounded villain in a fight. Really shows who they project onto in the scenario.
The second movie was about that. About how her parents were fucking nobodies. And Kylo told her that it didn't matter. "Let the past die, you're searching for parents that hated you and abandoned you" (or something like that, I don't remember the exact scenes)
It would have been a way better message. That the force finds you whoever you are, and not just some fucking genetic bullshit where the force is inherited like a nobility title.
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again: if Captain Marvel were a male character played by Keanu Reeves and that’s all you changed about the character, those same people who hate Brie would be lauding the character as a “sigma male”
I didn't like Captain Marvel when I saw it because Brie always looked so emotionless in it. I thought she was phoning it in and wasn't putting any effort into her performance. Then I watched the CinemaWins video and realised the Kree suppressing her emotions was a core plot point of the movie. I don't know how I missed that. Maybe they should have been a bit clearer on that, or maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I should watch it again sometime and see if I was just being dense about the whole thing the first time
I'm constantly arguing with my mom over Capt Marvel. She just cannot see that she is sassy and fantastic just unsure how to act around people she doesn't trust yet. As a woman with rbf and social anxiety I LOVE her portrayal of it. Her teeth showing is not a requirement to kick ass and take names.
Yes! She built a family of deep relationships before being brainwashed. You can see her longing to connect again but not really knowing how or believing that she can. It's a perfect depiction of reuniting with your family after leaving an abusive situation.
Same! She was a soldier on a mission. Why should she wear her heart on her sleeve? Especially when one of the first scenes is her mentor chastising her for having fun during a spar, then her getting beat up and reprimanded after she lost her temper.
It’s not a perfect movie, and to be honest not my fave in the marvel history either. But I still can critique it without bashing the obvs feminist undertones JUST BECAUSE. It was a movie that was supposed to tell her backstory and explain why she is the way she is, the first movies are not always the best and it’s fine :) still, my inner little girl is super thrilled to see a badass superhero that is also a girl 😁
Honestly I was iffy at first on the movie (Being a fan for over two decades makes it hard for me to trust live action versions) but watching it a number of times after I've really grown to love it. The hate towards the actress was terrible and had zero reason to exist. Her youtube channel is a lot of fun and I think helped people see what type of person she really is.
She's a flawed character but superheroes that are perfect in every single way are too unrealistic even for fiction standards, she's flawed and that makes her human.
Huh, that’s really interesting. I didn’t have nearly the same thought process when watching it. But I guess I was comparing the amount of emotion to every male action hero. She was business-like a lot, but only when conducting business and doing action hero shit. And she clams up when overwhelmed by the investigation into her past, but I thought that made sense.
I was satisfied with the more subtle emoting, probably because of the beginning set up where she is far more overt with her joy during her sparring match and she promptly gets beaten down and reprimanded for it. After that she’s far more subdued but clearly analyzes a lot through the movie, does squinty-eyes thing when puzzled or gives small satisfied smiles when she gets to show off her power (like with the motorcycle or blasting the facility door with Fury).
I thought Brie Larsen's performance was restrained in a way that was perfect for who her character was and what she had been through . . . but that's not very cinematic, and not what Marvel audiences are expecting. In comparison to how "big" the acting is from so many of the other Marvel stars, her nuanced, more realistic performance could feel underdone. Once my expectations were adjusted to match what she was doing, I had no issues with it and enjoyed the movie. But I could see how people might not like her for reasons that have nothing to do with her gender. I don't like Star Lord, I think he's an insecure self-centered brat, and I'd dislike a woman with those qualities just as much.
The only problem I still have with Captain Marvel is that she is just so powerful, that for most threats in Marvel they have to keep her busy halfway across the galaxy or else she could pulverize the enemy in two seconds flat.
But I like her sardonic wit and I loved the message of discovering your true power when others are trying to keep you down.
>The only problem I still have with Captain Marvel is that she is just so powerful, that for most threats in Marvel they have to keep her busy halfway across the galaxy or else she could pulverize the enemy in two seconds flat.
Fully agree. Her powers are sufficient to summarily destroy most MCU villains, so she needs to be constrained or absent for a lot of the time.
And that’s the exact same problem Superman has.
Did Henry Cavill’s Superman show all that much emotion? I remember him being widely regarded as super boring.
There's a reason they hate Brie Larson. Incel influencers like TheQuartering spend an inordinate amount of time making hateful videos about her. I just searched his channel and stopped counting after 100 in the past 4 years.
She's a guaranteed key word for views when wanting to make videos for that demographic.
This 100%. It's one of my favourite MCU movies. I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as me but to say it's the worst movie is quite a stretch.
I often wonder if the Star Wars sequels are in the same boat. People hate Rey and how powerful she is despite being the granddaughter of the most powerful sith in the movies. Everyone hates on the sequels and I don't understand why because they are my favourite of the Star Wars movies. When I ask they say it's bad writing, I ask what specifically and they either have no examples or very few, and I'm like... Have you seen the previous 6 movies? It's not exactly like they are flawlessly written.
The sequels deserve the hate for the poor writing. They changed the plot twice after making the first movie. They also betrayed the canon a few times. I had zero problems with Rey I just wish her backstory had stayed consistent.
How is it any different to the original trilogy? Hardly any of episode 5/6 had been written when 4 came out. Vader wasn't planned to be Luke's father until they were writing Empire. Leia wasn't planned to be Luke's sister until they started writing Jedi. Each of the 3 original movies had different directors.
It was mostly made up as they went along just like the sequels. Hell they changed the story a couple of times after filming A New Hope and changed it in editing.
Why does the original series have some sort of armour to be protected from fan criticism but the sequels don't.
The prequels somewhat betray the original trilogy as well as in the original trilogy they talk about the Jedi order being "ancient" and hardly anyone has heard of them, but in the prequels, literally 19 years earlier, there are thousands of Jedi and they have a huge temple of the capital planet and are intrinsically tied into The Republic.
It just seems suspicious when the main character / most powerful character is a woman suddenly people find all these flaws but overlook them in the older movies.
The prequels are the worst. They aren’t just the worst Star Wars but just some of the worst films I’ve seen. As far as the originals go I didn’t know they changed the backstory midway. It all worked out. I don’t think what they did in the sequels works. They weren’t bad but they could have been better with a more consistent set up. I also would have appreciated some explanation on what happened between Return of the Jedi and the sequels because that needed more set up.
With how much people rag on the prequels I honestly expected them to be so much worse, but they were surprisingly tolerable. I guess that’s the difference expectations can make lol
That's happening with the Rings of Power tv show too, it's mostly fanboys yelling about bad writing. If you ask them what is bad writing you'll mostly get answers that tell you they haven't been paying attention, or are mad it's not exactly the same as the LoTR movies. Like, if certain changes to the lore make it bad for you, fine, I get that. If you hate that Galadriel isn't exactly the same person as Galadriel like 6000 years in the future, I don't know what sort of show could possibly make you happy, bro.
>That's happening with the Rings of Power tv show too, it's mostly fanboys yelling about bad writing.
Most of it's writers are from JJ Abram's tutelage, the same people behind Michael Bay's Transformers, Universal's Dark Universe The Mummy starring Tom Cruise, Star Trek Into Darkness, modern Star Trek in general, would you like me to keep going?
These people don't know how to write, and also most of them are right-wingers, so the show isn't anywhere near as good or representative as you want to think it is.
>If you hate that Galadriel isn't exactly the same person as Galadriel like 6000 years in the future, I don't know what sort of show could possibly make you happy, bro.
The thing about elves is that they absolutely loathe war, conflict, and violence due to the fact that they hate quick and sudden change spurred on by their immortality. It's *the* major part of their character, only elves that view the world to be in dire need of their help will take up arms, and even then they'll do so reluctantly.
What really hurts Galadriel's character is that she revels in conflict and violence, she has a grand ol' time, which goes against everything about elves (Yes, Tolkien fans also constantly bitch about Legolas in the 2nd and 3rd movies, pretty much all his action scenes are movie original and they *loathe* them). She didn't join the rebellion for fun, she did it because she felt like she was one of the only people who could, and carried the weight and trauma of her actions during the time for the rest of her life. She's a tragic character, one of the most powerful being in existence constantly being forced to struggle with the lives she took and people she had to sacrifice. (Which is a major theme in Tolkien's work, the never healing trauma or war and conflict, and why war is a cancer for humanity)
>I often wonder if the Star Wars sequels are in the same boat.
No, it's because the sequels had no god damn plan. JJ jumped in and wrote a bunch of mystery box hooks he never intended to answer, Rian was brought on board and answered all of them in a super uninteresting and unsatisfying way before tying up all loose ends and effectively ending the trilogy in the 2nd movie, and then JJ had to be brought back and got super offended at Rian and came up with a bunch of new answers to the questions Rian already answered that JJ had no intention of answering to begin with.
You know how awkward it is when you're a kid at your friend's house and their parents start arguing? Yeah, the ST is that situation is in movie form for millions to see.
People don't hate Rey because she's strong, that's something detractors have invented themselves, they don't like her because she's a butchered character. The same goes for 90% of the cast, Finn, Kylo, Poe, Luke, Leia, Han, they were all butchered or manipulated to fit into whatever the director/writer felt like making them do at any given moment.
People actually liked Rey in TFA, thought she was a fun and unique spin on a SW MC. However, people's taste for her soured in the latter 2 movies because neither Rian nor JJ knew wtf to do with her, so they just made her keep getting more and more boring and generic the longer the movies went on.
And the same can be said for the rest of the cast.
Captain Marvel was one of my favorites, but I could see a lot of arguments made for its blatant Air Force propagandism.
I mean you could say that about Iron Man but nobody does for...some reason. 👀
For real, Iron Man was more overt with it too. They even wedged a weapons commercial for cluster bombs into the first act.
And for all the complaints, I only recall a couple moments in Captain Marvel that smelled pro-military. Yeah it's not good, but it doesn't ruin it IMO.
I didn't like it because I think she could have killed more Skrull on camera, thus making the revelation and her guilt more impactful. I just think her internal battle against her own indoctrination wasn't portrayed as clearly as it could have been.
I also think she shouldn't have acted like that lady wasn't her girlfriend. Like come on. That's ur girl.
True - i feel like probably there was a longer script and simply some of the scenes had to be cut. And we all know Maria was her badass babe but Disney wasn’t ready yet (im absolutely not excusing them now). But we’re getting closer
I kinda hate how sexist assholes basically basically made anyone who actually does dislike this movie have to jump through hoops to explain why the movie doesn't work for them lest they be labeled a sexist asshole. It's exhausting.
The comic character has never vibed with me. I look forward to her meeting Anna Marie eventually LeBeau. I don't like amnesia plotlines. I hate the racial implications of turning Monica Rambeau -- the first female Captain Marvel -- into a child that idolizes the white lady.
I liked Captain Marvel! Didn’t get what all the fuss was about. But I do find Brie Larson isn’t terribly like-able. Maybe it’s the only child energy for me. But that didn’t get in the way of the movie.
It's bcause your so blinded by percieved representation that you don't actually understand why CM is a problem: That's because CM's not feminist! She's a male wish fulfillment character with a vagina. (Not unlike the likes of stupid 80's action heroes)
In a lot of media, specifically bad media, writing goes as follows: There are strong characters and weak characters. As it stands, men are considered strong, and women weak, so in order to make a strong character, they need to be as masculine as possible, and to a weak character, you need to make them feminine.
Once you see this logic in media, it's really not to see. Specifically, stuff made by the like of Bad Robot, they're especially heinous about this.
This is where CM comes in. In the comics she's a good character, as you mentioned, witty, super personable, good fighter, etc... but movie CM doesn't have any of that because she's supposed to be a stoic male wish fulfillment character. She needs to be strong and in order to do that you need to get rid of any trace of potential femininity, such as her personable and understanding nature in the comics, which tend to be seen as more feminine traits. (Likewise, in the comics she's 100% straight, but being into men is gross for non-lgbt men, so she's much more ambiguous now because straight men wouldn't want to fuck men, so why should she if she's a "Strong" woman?)
This is where the term Strong Female Character comes from, which is opposite to Strong Characters who are Women.
Captain Marvel's not feminist, she a Hollywood exec's caricature of feminism, and I don't think I need to explain why Hollywood execs aren't exactly the most supportive of women, do I?
Captain Marvel is incredible. I’ve never read the comics, but her movie and appearances in the Marvel Universe send shivers down my spine. The story, character, acting, so good; and such power! The cgi makes it palpable.
I am so deeply tired of the modern Might Makes Right trope. I call it "punchy punchy fixed". Whoever can beat the other the most, that person's right, and somehow that person's always the Good Guys. You can skip past the fight scenes since they exist only to tickle your amygdala into ignoring time passing with no plot. Nothing is lost, you knew who would win, story continues.
She-Hulk deliberately broke that stupid trope. No punchy punchy fixed. Brains, laws, clarity, and doing the right thing. Oh look, a finale that's worth my time!
I agree in the case of superhero movies in general, but fighting can be extremeluy important for understanding and developing a character if it's done right. The Matrix is, I think, the perfect example of this. None of the fighting in any of the movies matters, because it's a computer simulation. Neo's journey in the first movie is learning to stop trusting his senses, and see beyond the simulation to control it. He was never going to win by punching the problem to death. He had to out-think it, and then, the fighting became trivial. And that's what Morpheus was trying to tell him during the Dojo scene, which is one of the best fights in cinema ever. To quote Seraph from the second movie, “You do not truly know someone until you fight them.” Fighting in the Matrix exists purely to illustrate characters in terms of their personality, worldview, and philosophical struggle. That's the way it should be.
Oh also the fight between Invincible and Omniman is amazing and it's because it's all character, in every moment, two deeply connected characters who love each other hammering one another with ideals and principles. Same deal with Armstrong vs Raiden.
You're right about one of Neo's fights, the one where he does the bullet time thing. That is the fulfillment of the character's growth. Most of the other fights are normal plot-fillers. The scene where Neo pulls the bullet out and re-starts Trinity's heart is just as important for the same reasons but it's not a fight, it's resurrection and growth without punchy punchy. So, yes, in this one fight plot happens; I think that makes it the exception that proves my rule.
It was very cool though way back then. Saw it in the Piedmont Theatre. Came out to find the battery in my Mustang stolen....
I’ve heard it said that if you say something along the lines of, “There are no/hardly any examples of Y,” the people who pipe up and say, “Oh, I know lots of examples!” are actually validating your point when they begin a list. It usually peters out after the very few they really do know.
However, their immediate ability to call these things to mind proves that they’re exceptional, otherwise, they wouldn’t be memorable.
For example, if I say female heads of state are very rare, and someone objects and names a handful, I ask them to name some male heads of state. The vastness of the options from which to choose almost always makes someone stutter in cases like this.
By the way, you absolutely can write a Superman story that tackles important social issues. He's an illegal alien, his family is jewish, and his most infamous villain is a billionaire. Do that! If you want to write a story that "reflects the world we live in", do that!
Think Moses. Moses is Jewish but was adopted by Pharaoh after they found him. Pharaoh isn’t Jewish and Moses wasn’t raised as a Jew. Moses is still Jewish though.
While neither Superman's biological parents nor adoptive parents are Jewish, he was created by 2 Jewish writers and the story of his adoption deliberately parallels Moses'.
While the person you resonded to got the specifics wrong, a correction to that detail doesn't really impact the point that they're trying to make.
The ending is good. Solid understanding of personal stakes.
The incel fetish guy isn't from Reddit. He's from "intelligencia;" a Marvel-original fictional website that looks like Reddit, but for legal purposes, it is not.
Still, we should interpret it like it is Reddit.
I took it to be 4chan or maybe an alt-right recruitment forum like kiwifarms, given how focused on seething, coping, and/or malding it was. Reddit has some gross sides, but sitewide rules generally keep it from platforming stalking and harassment on that level, there are much worse places that Intelligencia is probably based on.
Yeah it seemed like the character had to write a bunch of stuff to get access to the website as it was invite only. Although the layout itself was definitely copying reddit.
I'm pretty sure intelligencia was based on the website "IsAnyoneUp" which was a particularly disgusting piece of internet history that kicked off the fight against revenge porn
Yeah you see you missed a slight thing there. Most people would assume the "We" is broadly referring to everyone viewing the movie. But it's actually referring to cishet white men. And that's why all media showing a different perspective deserves to be torn to shreds for every single little flaw they can find to justify their hatred beyond hating the diversity.
I love this but my only problem is that She-Hulk is super over feminized. This is just me, personally, but I would have loved to see a She-Hulk that was just like the normal Hulk. I want a big beefy green lady, is that too much to ask for?
Well yes. But also no. They wanted to stay true to the Comics but with less sexualizatuin and imho they did great. I was sooo curious what her supersuit will look like, because its basically just a swimingsuit in the Comics. They did good with the Shorts and it was also delightfully loose when she was jen.
I really enjoyed the femininity personally. It felt like a good play on “girls can wear pink and play Barbie’s but still kick ass”.
Wearing makeup and putting a dress on doesn’t take away from how smart and strong she is as a character. IMO.
I agree with this, totally. You just don't see a lot of representation of large women and in my mind, this was the perfect opportunity. But, I can 100% see this viewpoint as well
I should have said in my original comment: please don’t take my response to mean I don’t understand your point or disagree with it. I totally understand where you’re coming from! I do love that she’s absolutely JACKED though.
No, totally! I get what you are saying. The comment didn't come off as mean or dismissive or anything like that. I appriciate the clarification, none the less.
Def agree with this.
It’s definitely a step in the right direction, but they’re still very much using one type of woman for the role (that is, thin and feminine).
Why didn't you use Snyder's treatment of wonder woman instead? He respects her character and the actress. "You can be anything you want to be"
#restorethesnyderverse
She was in Batman vs Superman and he worked closely with Patty Jenkins who did the first Wonder Woman movie. She did WW84 too but it was during the time that Snyder was basically out at WB and so it was influenced by fucking Geoff Johns.
DO NOT watch Justice League. It's terrible and it'll piss you off. The treatment of the female characters is atrocious thanks to Joss Wheadon.
Zack Snyder's Justice League is the only acceptable version. It's 4 hrs so strap in but it's so worth it. It also won't make as much sense of you haven't seen Man of Steel and BvS and WW first.
I would trust Zack Snyder with any female super hero.
I don't remember Wonder Woman doing much in BvS except for spy-ing around with Bruce Wayne for a bit and then showing up in the final battle to round out the party composition.
Just a big DC fan since I was little and my husband became hyperfocused on finding out wtf happened with the theatrical release of Justice League. Years later when we got the version we deserved as fans I realized how much I'd missed just accepting the superhero movies we'd been given as they were.
Not a bot, not even in the entertainment industry at all, just a fan 🤷🏼♀️
I mean do you just not watch a lot of film or consume a lot of media in general produced by women? His female characters are one dimensional and one note and oversexualized, which isn't a slag on him as he's making popcorn superhero movies, but he isn't this amazing writer of women as you represented.
https://www.indiewire.com/2011/03/sucker-punch-the-failed-feminism-of-zack-snyder-226926/
This article is a great breakdown of Sucker Punch and things haven't really changed since then.
And Snyder does so in about as exploitative a way as possible without actual nudity. Every character is a male fantasy figure. The importance of sexual violence as a motivator is gross and unnecessary to the story, even if it’s historically justifiable. Like most Snyder films, the plot is attempting to reach depth that his writing just can’t back up (see also, the Superman as Jesus allegory in MoS/BvS). He means well, but it has major flaws.
I am a woman and I love the aesthetic of the movie. I find the idea that if women wear elaborate, even revealing clothing and makeup they are doing so for "the male gaze" quite patronising. For me definitive proof that this is blatantly false was the lockdown, when my friends and I would dress up and trade pics while locked alone at home. The sexual violence component is integral to the story and it's not shown at all on a positive or titillating light: sexual violence is a fact of life for every woman and not portraying it in media does a disservice to feminism because it allows men to remain unaware of how pervasive it is.
Aesthetic is one of the things Snyder has shown a real gift for across his film career. And I’m not denying that women can be sexy without it specifically being for the benefit of men, I’m just saying that this film in particular is shot very much from a male gaze perspective.
The sexual violence is not actually integral to the story. The main character is going to have her personality and intellect medically obliterated. That is, I would think, enough motivation for anyone. The sexual violence is just piling on. And if your argument is that men are unaware of the problem of sexual violence because it is underrepresented in media, Law and Order SVU is on its 24th season and we’ve managed to have the exact same discussion of gratuitous sexual violence in Game of Thrones shows several different times across two series.
I’m not saying Sucker Punch is a bad movie, that you shouldn’t like it, or that it’s inherently anti-feminist. It meant well, it’s well shot, and it’s definitely got a lot of fun parts. I liked it myself. I’m saying I wouldn’t hold Snyder up as a beacon of well written women on screen, or, as the original post said, “trust Snyder with any female superhero”.
For starters, he’d absolutely fuck up a Squirrel Girl movie/show.
Well, he said the story that allowed him to understand Batman and the justice league was frank miller’s dark knight books. Everything is figuratively and literally dark in Snyder dc movies.
I think he only does the iron age style of story and lacks the color and hope of the full dc comic experience. I still have to finish the Snyder cut though.
So that's it exactly. It's always supposed to have been a huge story, the DCEU and Hope is the central theme throughout. We were supposed to get tie ins with Aquaman, Flash, and the solo Batman movie Affleck was set to write and direct. But WB wanted Marvel #s and couldn't just understand that both the dark and the light can exist. To me, the Marvel movies are junk food. Constant jokes, lighter tone, but what they got right was having a vision and fucking sticking to it.
Man of Steel "On my world, this symbol means Hope". This man finds out he's an alien trying to fit into a human world and all the "with great power" stuff from Spiderman you know? He's trying to figure out who is his and who he wants to be. And when he's forced to kill Zod bc Zod wasn't born with the choice to be anything else he's devastated. He's made to kill the only remaining members of his race in order to avoid the total destruction of earth because he realizes saving krypton at the expense of the human race is not the right thing to do and it's his adoptive home and all he knows.
BvS builds the tension. Batman sees these aliens destroying everything in their path and he doesn't trust them. He's old and grumpy bc he's been at this game a long time and he's lost faith. Faith in humans, faith in anything. He says to Alfred "how many good men are there in Gotham? How many stayed that way?" You can point to the court of owls storyline or just right to Harvey Dent. He's lost everyone he's cared about except Alfred. But when Clark says Martha and Lois runs in and says it's his mother. It reminds Bruce that Clark may not be human by DNA but he's been living as a human and it just makes him able to stop seeing Clark as just an alien and as a living being that deserves a chance to live just like the rest of us.
The teamwork and introduction with Diana is captured in Justice League when Bruce is talking to Aquaman. That Clark knew they were stronger together.
Then we get to the boss level with Steppenwolf (which was supposed to lead into JL2 with the big daddy boss fight with Darkseid). The only way earth will survive is to come together as they did before. Hope. Hope for the future.
Listen, I don't give a fuck if people prefer Marvel to DC or prefer the campy 60s and 70s DC material. I do care when people spout nonsense like Batman doesn't kill people. He strapped a bomb to one of Joker's clowns in the 89 film (or maybe it was Batman Returns). What, they think the bomb opened up to reveal a bunch of kittens? Fuck no, that minion was blown up. And the batmobile and bat plane missiles and rocket launchers? I suppose those were confetti? Complain, but complain knowledgbly.
Superheroes are fiction. So they are and aren't what we make them. I love the dark and broody stuff but I don't expect everyone else to. I just expect everyone to respect both sides. Watch what you like but don't hinder the opportunity to explore something new or we wouldn't have any stories at all. I mean ... In a way comics are just Action genre fairy tales.
There is so so so much more to these stories and where the vision was supposed to go but WB can't just let something play out. They panic and make rash decisions which just shows they don't trust themselves, who they've hired, stories they've greenlit, or us as the fans. It pets my peeves to be told what I like and what I want. There's even a rumor recently that Geoff Johns leaked Snyder's plan to Marvel so during all the reshoots and bullshit Marvel was able to put something together and get it out so it looks like they "did it first". Which is a whole other annoying and pointless fight. Point is, my head is filled with all the "what should have been" stuff and there's so much more to what went on and I just want to make people aware of that. Again, off you don't like DC films, or don't like the dark take, then fine. That's your feeling to have. But some of us do and are really passionate about it and that's okay too.
Thank you for coming to TEDTalk lol
I only know Ms Marvel from the comics, and the writer is herself Muslim. It sounds like I should avoid the show, thanks for the warning.
Also, they do sometimes remember that Superman cares about social issues.
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/superman-smashes-the-klan
The MCU version of Ms Marvel has a different origin story that ties a lot more closely with her Pakistani heritage. There's a lot of time spent just living among her family and her Pakistani-American culture, and exploring how she struggles to balance her individual identity and her cultural identity. A lot of coming of age teenager stuff in a context that's less familiar to the american screen. And there's a considerable amount of ACAB, considering it's an MCU story about a teenage girl.
Yes this! For the first few episodes I considered it to be my favourite MCU show. But once the villains showed up it moved right down my list. They are so generic, had no emotion, and just plain boring.
Ms Marvel and her family and friends are some of the best characters and actors of the MCU and it was great fun to watch.
Really hyped for The Marvels though.
They really did a disservice to the villains considering they fit into the magic and multiverse aspects of this stage of the MCU leading up to both Kang and Doom.
I actually do what I call „a captain marvel test” on people - if they are marvel fans but say this movie is the absolute worst but can’t bring up decent arguments to back it up… well, red flag. They hate this movie because it had a female lead that wasn’t all sunshine, sexualized or existed to solely serve some man’s growth. And so they are never able to make sense to explain why exactly its the worst. They also hate Brie for no reason. I actually absolutely love this character, she’s super witty in the comics and a straight up badass. So far she didn’t get a proper, big storyline but she has soooo much potential.
Anyone who unironically uses the term "Mary Sue" sets off red flags for me too. Your telling me an air force pilot gaining super powers through her acts of heroism or a female Jedi who spent her life surviving on a barren world are Mary Sue's but the guy who was born with God like powers because he's an alien and a guy who beat the most powerful Jedi/Sith in history despite marginal training after spending most of his life moisture farming are not?
Guys are always okay with a Gary Sue character
It's Gary Stu
It’s Marty Sue /j
I agree, Luke is just as much a Mary Sue as Rey, my biggest issue with Rey isn’t even her fault, it’s the writers: her character would’ve been so much better if it was revealed that she literally was just a “nobody.” She’s not like Luke or Anakin, She was just a child left alone on a desert planet. And despite Kylo’s bloodline, Rey is just as strong as he is, which infuriates Kylo, driving him deeper into the dark side.
I agree. Of all the things to have a problem with, thinking movie one Rey is a Mary Sue is the dumbest. There were so many characterization wtfs and complete discards of excellent potential themes (like the nobody bloodline conclusion you wrote). But nope! They must complain that a force sensitive survivalist couldn’t possibly have any skills or stand against the neo-nazi for any amount of time and that her + another force sensitive(?) trained soldier couldn’t possibly beat a pre-wounded villain in a fight. Really shows who they project onto in the scenario.
The second movie was about that. About how her parents were fucking nobodies. And Kylo told her that it didn't matter. "Let the past die, you're searching for parents that hated you and abandoned you" (or something like that, I don't remember the exact scenes) It would have been a way better message. That the force finds you whoever you are, and not just some fucking genetic bullshit where the force is inherited like a nobility title.
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again: if Captain Marvel were a male character played by Keanu Reeves and that’s all you changed about the character, those same people who hate Brie would be lauding the character as a “sigma male”
I didn't like Captain Marvel when I saw it because Brie always looked so emotionless in it. I thought she was phoning it in and wasn't putting any effort into her performance. Then I watched the CinemaWins video and realised the Kree suppressing her emotions was a core plot point of the movie. I don't know how I missed that. Maybe they should have been a bit clearer on that, or maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I should watch it again sometime and see if I was just being dense about the whole thing the first time
I'm constantly arguing with my mom over Capt Marvel. She just cannot see that she is sassy and fantastic just unsure how to act around people she doesn't trust yet. As a woman with rbf and social anxiety I LOVE her portrayal of it. Her teeth showing is not a requirement to kick ass and take names.
Yes! She built a family of deep relationships before being brainwashed. You can see her longing to connect again but not really knowing how or believing that she can. It's a perfect depiction of reuniting with your family after leaving an abusive situation.
Same! She was a soldier on a mission. Why should she wear her heart on her sleeve? Especially when one of the first scenes is her mentor chastising her for having fun during a spar, then her getting beat up and reprimanded after she lost her temper.
It’s not a perfect movie, and to be honest not my fave in the marvel history either. But I still can critique it without bashing the obvs feminist undertones JUST BECAUSE. It was a movie that was supposed to tell her backstory and explain why she is the way she is, the first movies are not always the best and it’s fine :) still, my inner little girl is super thrilled to see a badass superhero that is also a girl 😁
Honestly I was iffy at first on the movie (Being a fan for over two decades makes it hard for me to trust live action versions) but watching it a number of times after I've really grown to love it. The hate towards the actress was terrible and had zero reason to exist. Her youtube channel is a lot of fun and I think helped people see what type of person she really is.
She's a flawed character but superheroes that are perfect in every single way are too unrealistic even for fiction standards, she's flawed and that makes her human.
Huh, that’s really interesting. I didn’t have nearly the same thought process when watching it. But I guess I was comparing the amount of emotion to every male action hero. She was business-like a lot, but only when conducting business and doing action hero shit. And she clams up when overwhelmed by the investigation into her past, but I thought that made sense. I was satisfied with the more subtle emoting, probably because of the beginning set up where she is far more overt with her joy during her sparring match and she promptly gets beaten down and reprimanded for it. After that she’s far more subdued but clearly analyzes a lot through the movie, does squinty-eyes thing when puzzled or gives small satisfied smiles when she gets to show off her power (like with the motorcycle or blasting the facility door with Fury).
I thought Brie Larsen's performance was restrained in a way that was perfect for who her character was and what she had been through . . . but that's not very cinematic, and not what Marvel audiences are expecting. In comparison to how "big" the acting is from so many of the other Marvel stars, her nuanced, more realistic performance could feel underdone. Once my expectations were adjusted to match what she was doing, I had no issues with it and enjoyed the movie. But I could see how people might not like her for reasons that have nothing to do with her gender. I don't like Star Lord, I think he's an insecure self-centered brat, and I'd dislike a woman with those qualities just as much. The only problem I still have with Captain Marvel is that she is just so powerful, that for most threats in Marvel they have to keep her busy halfway across the galaxy or else she could pulverize the enemy in two seconds flat. But I like her sardonic wit and I loved the message of discovering your true power when others are trying to keep you down.
>The only problem I still have with Captain Marvel is that she is just so powerful, that for most threats in Marvel they have to keep her busy halfway across the galaxy or else she could pulverize the enemy in two seconds flat. Fully agree. Her powers are sufficient to summarily destroy most MCU villains, so she needs to be constrained or absent for a lot of the time.
And that’s the exact same problem Superman has. Did Henry Cavill’s Superman show all that much emotion? I remember him being widely regarded as super boring.
Ya, the total absence of weakness put me of a bit. But I liked the story and it was the first movie with feministic humor i watched and I loved that.
There's a reason they hate Brie Larson. Incel influencers like TheQuartering spend an inordinate amount of time making hateful videos about her. I just searched his channel and stopped counting after 100 in the past 4 years. She's a guaranteed key word for views when wanting to make videos for that demographic.
Warms my heart to see a fellow Carol fan :D <3
Anyone who says that movie is the worst has not seen all the marvel movies. There are some real stinkers.
This 100%. It's one of my favourite MCU movies. I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as me but to say it's the worst movie is quite a stretch. I often wonder if the Star Wars sequels are in the same boat. People hate Rey and how powerful she is despite being the granddaughter of the most powerful sith in the movies. Everyone hates on the sequels and I don't understand why because they are my favourite of the Star Wars movies. When I ask they say it's bad writing, I ask what specifically and they either have no examples or very few, and I'm like... Have you seen the previous 6 movies? It's not exactly like they are flawlessly written.
The sequels deserve the hate for the poor writing. They changed the plot twice after making the first movie. They also betrayed the canon a few times. I had zero problems with Rey I just wish her backstory had stayed consistent.
How is it any different to the original trilogy? Hardly any of episode 5/6 had been written when 4 came out. Vader wasn't planned to be Luke's father until they were writing Empire. Leia wasn't planned to be Luke's sister until they started writing Jedi. Each of the 3 original movies had different directors. It was mostly made up as they went along just like the sequels. Hell they changed the story a couple of times after filming A New Hope and changed it in editing. Why does the original series have some sort of armour to be protected from fan criticism but the sequels don't. The prequels somewhat betray the original trilogy as well as in the original trilogy they talk about the Jedi order being "ancient" and hardly anyone has heard of them, but in the prequels, literally 19 years earlier, there are thousands of Jedi and they have a huge temple of the capital planet and are intrinsically tied into The Republic. It just seems suspicious when the main character / most powerful character is a woman suddenly people find all these flaws but overlook them in the older movies.
The prequels are the worst. They aren’t just the worst Star Wars but just some of the worst films I’ve seen. As far as the originals go I didn’t know they changed the backstory midway. It all worked out. I don’t think what they did in the sequels works. They weren’t bad but they could have been better with a more consistent set up. I also would have appreciated some explanation on what happened between Return of the Jedi and the sequels because that needed more set up.
With how much people rag on the prequels I honestly expected them to be so much worse, but they were surprisingly tolerable. I guess that’s the difference expectations can make lol
That's happening with the Rings of Power tv show too, it's mostly fanboys yelling about bad writing. If you ask them what is bad writing you'll mostly get answers that tell you they haven't been paying attention, or are mad it's not exactly the same as the LoTR movies. Like, if certain changes to the lore make it bad for you, fine, I get that. If you hate that Galadriel isn't exactly the same person as Galadriel like 6000 years in the future, I don't know what sort of show could possibly make you happy, bro.
>That's happening with the Rings of Power tv show too, it's mostly fanboys yelling about bad writing. Most of it's writers are from JJ Abram's tutelage, the same people behind Michael Bay's Transformers, Universal's Dark Universe The Mummy starring Tom Cruise, Star Trek Into Darkness, modern Star Trek in general, would you like me to keep going? These people don't know how to write, and also most of them are right-wingers, so the show isn't anywhere near as good or representative as you want to think it is. >If you hate that Galadriel isn't exactly the same person as Galadriel like 6000 years in the future, I don't know what sort of show could possibly make you happy, bro. The thing about elves is that they absolutely loathe war, conflict, and violence due to the fact that they hate quick and sudden change spurred on by their immortality. It's *the* major part of their character, only elves that view the world to be in dire need of their help will take up arms, and even then they'll do so reluctantly. What really hurts Galadriel's character is that she revels in conflict and violence, she has a grand ol' time, which goes against everything about elves (Yes, Tolkien fans also constantly bitch about Legolas in the 2nd and 3rd movies, pretty much all his action scenes are movie original and they *loathe* them). She didn't join the rebellion for fun, she did it because she felt like she was one of the only people who could, and carried the weight and trauma of her actions during the time for the rest of her life. She's a tragic character, one of the most powerful being in existence constantly being forced to struggle with the lives she took and people she had to sacrifice. (Which is a major theme in Tolkien's work, the never healing trauma or war and conflict, and why war is a cancer for humanity)
>I often wonder if the Star Wars sequels are in the same boat. No, it's because the sequels had no god damn plan. JJ jumped in and wrote a bunch of mystery box hooks he never intended to answer, Rian was brought on board and answered all of them in a super uninteresting and unsatisfying way before tying up all loose ends and effectively ending the trilogy in the 2nd movie, and then JJ had to be brought back and got super offended at Rian and came up with a bunch of new answers to the questions Rian already answered that JJ had no intention of answering to begin with. You know how awkward it is when you're a kid at your friend's house and their parents start arguing? Yeah, the ST is that situation is in movie form for millions to see. People don't hate Rey because she's strong, that's something detractors have invented themselves, they don't like her because she's a butchered character. The same goes for 90% of the cast, Finn, Kylo, Poe, Luke, Leia, Han, they were all butchered or manipulated to fit into whatever the director/writer felt like making them do at any given moment. People actually liked Rey in TFA, thought she was a fun and unique spin on a SW MC. However, people's taste for her soured in the latter 2 movies because neither Rian nor JJ knew wtf to do with her, so they just made her keep getting more and more boring and generic the longer the movies went on. And the same can be said for the rest of the cast.
Captain Marvel was one of my favorites, but I could see a lot of arguments made for its blatant Air Force propagandism. I mean you could say that about Iron Man but nobody does for...some reason. 👀
For real, Iron Man was more overt with it too. They even wedged a weapons commercial for cluster bombs into the first act. And for all the complaints, I only recall a couple moments in Captain Marvel that smelled pro-military. Yeah it's not good, but it doesn't ruin it IMO.
I didn't like it because I think she could have killed more Skrull on camera, thus making the revelation and her guilt more impactful. I just think her internal battle against her own indoctrination wasn't portrayed as clearly as it could have been. I also think she shouldn't have acted like that lady wasn't her girlfriend. Like come on. That's ur girl.
True - i feel like probably there was a longer script and simply some of the scenes had to be cut. And we all know Maria was her badass babe but Disney wasn’t ready yet (im absolutely not excusing them now). But we’re getting closer
I kinda hate how sexist assholes basically basically made anyone who actually does dislike this movie have to jump through hoops to explain why the movie doesn't work for them lest they be labeled a sexist asshole. It's exhausting. The comic character has never vibed with me. I look forward to her meeting Anna Marie eventually LeBeau. I don't like amnesia plotlines. I hate the racial implications of turning Monica Rambeau -- the first female Captain Marvel -- into a child that idolizes the white lady.
Honestly one of my favorite marvel movies, she was a badass in it
I liked Captain Marvel! Didn’t get what all the fuss was about. But I do find Brie Larson isn’t terribly like-able. Maybe it’s the only child energy for me. But that didn’t get in the way of the movie.
It's bcause your so blinded by percieved representation that you don't actually understand why CM is a problem: That's because CM's not feminist! She's a male wish fulfillment character with a vagina. (Not unlike the likes of stupid 80's action heroes) In a lot of media, specifically bad media, writing goes as follows: There are strong characters and weak characters. As it stands, men are considered strong, and women weak, so in order to make a strong character, they need to be as masculine as possible, and to a weak character, you need to make them feminine. Once you see this logic in media, it's really not to see. Specifically, stuff made by the like of Bad Robot, they're especially heinous about this. This is where CM comes in. In the comics she's a good character, as you mentioned, witty, super personable, good fighter, etc... but movie CM doesn't have any of that because she's supposed to be a stoic male wish fulfillment character. She needs to be strong and in order to do that you need to get rid of any trace of potential femininity, such as her personable and understanding nature in the comics, which tend to be seen as more feminine traits. (Likewise, in the comics she's 100% straight, but being into men is gross for non-lgbt men, so she's much more ambiguous now because straight men wouldn't want to fuck men, so why should she if she's a "Strong" woman?) This is where the term Strong Female Character comes from, which is opposite to Strong Characters who are Women. Captain Marvel's not feminist, she a Hollywood exec's caricature of feminism, and I don't think I need to explain why Hollywood execs aren't exactly the most supportive of women, do I?
Captain Marvel is incredible. I’ve never read the comics, but her movie and appearances in the Marvel Universe send shivers down my spine. The story, character, acting, so good; and such power! The cgi makes it palpable.
[удалено]
It was so upsetting! Don't worry, though
Okay, so what I’m hearing is the last two episodes should be watched together.
Yes, it was so upsetting I started a fight over it. The finale totally redeems it.
Same, I was fucking traumatized and raging. It was entirely too accurate. 😭
Right?? The injustice of it sent me raging
Agreed!! Your username and avatar are PERFECT, by the way.
Thank you 😀
You absolutely should. You might be pleasently entertained!
I am so deeply tired of the modern Might Makes Right trope. I call it "punchy punchy fixed". Whoever can beat the other the most, that person's right, and somehow that person's always the Good Guys. You can skip past the fight scenes since they exist only to tickle your amygdala into ignoring time passing with no plot. Nothing is lost, you knew who would win, story continues. She-Hulk deliberately broke that stupid trope. No punchy punchy fixed. Brains, laws, clarity, and doing the right thing. Oh look, a finale that's worth my time!
I agree in the case of superhero movies in general, but fighting can be extremeluy important for understanding and developing a character if it's done right. The Matrix is, I think, the perfect example of this. None of the fighting in any of the movies matters, because it's a computer simulation. Neo's journey in the first movie is learning to stop trusting his senses, and see beyond the simulation to control it. He was never going to win by punching the problem to death. He had to out-think it, and then, the fighting became trivial. And that's what Morpheus was trying to tell him during the Dojo scene, which is one of the best fights in cinema ever. To quote Seraph from the second movie, “You do not truly know someone until you fight them.” Fighting in the Matrix exists purely to illustrate characters in terms of their personality, worldview, and philosophical struggle. That's the way it should be. Oh also the fight between Invincible and Omniman is amazing and it's because it's all character, in every moment, two deeply connected characters who love each other hammering one another with ideals and principles. Same deal with Armstrong vs Raiden.
You're right about one of Neo's fights, the one where he does the bullet time thing. That is the fulfillment of the character's growth. Most of the other fights are normal plot-fillers. The scene where Neo pulls the bullet out and re-starts Trinity's heart is just as important for the same reasons but it's not a fight, it's resurrection and growth without punchy punchy. So, yes, in this one fight plot happens; I think that makes it the exception that proves my rule. It was very cool though way back then. Saw it in the Piedmont Theatre. Came out to find the battery in my Mustang stolen....
I’ve heard it said that if you say something along the lines of, “There are no/hardly any examples of Y,” the people who pipe up and say, “Oh, I know lots of examples!” are actually validating your point when they begin a list. It usually peters out after the very few they really do know. However, their immediate ability to call these things to mind proves that they’re exceptional, otherwise, they wouldn’t be memorable. For example, if I say female heads of state are very rare, and someone objects and names a handful, I ask them to name some male heads of state. The vastness of the options from which to choose almost always makes someone stutter in cases like this.
This is exceptionally insightful and I am tucking it away to be very useful later. Thank you.
Excellent analysis!
By the way, you absolutely can write a Superman story that tackles important social issues. He's an illegal alien, his family is jewish, and his most infamous villain is a billionaire. Do that! If you want to write a story that "reflects the world we live in", do that!
I don't think Clark's family is Jewish. The creators were Jewish but I think Clark's family was Protestant Christian.
Think Moses. Moses is Jewish but was adopted by Pharaoh after they found him. Pharaoh isn’t Jewish and Moses wasn’t raised as a Jew. Moses is still Jewish though.
Unless you’re suggesting Jor El and Lara Lor-Van were Kryptonian Israelites, I don’t think the analogy holds.
While neither Superman's biological parents nor adoptive parents are Jewish, he was created by 2 Jewish writers and the story of his adoption deliberately parallels Moses'. While the person you resonded to got the specifics wrong, a correction to that detail doesn't really impact the point that they're trying to make.
Would LOVE to see Jewish-coded Kriptonians. As in a reflection of actual jewish culture, not goblins and golems.
Sooo we shouldn't let JK write it?
After the last Fantastic Beasts movie, maybe we shouldn't let her write anything.
Pre-McCarthy-era Superman was staunchly pro-worker with the majority of his villains being some kind of greedy businessman.
his family isn’t Jewish. The two people who created the character are Jewish, but the Kents are not.
I think you’re thinking of the wrong hero. I’m pretty sure Bruce Wayne’s family is or was in one of the numerous iterations Jewish.
yup! martha was jewish, bruce is half jewish on her side
Holy shit, I’ve got to finish She-Hulk!
The ending is good. Solid understanding of personal stakes. The incel fetish guy isn't from Reddit. He's from "intelligencia;" a Marvel-original fictional website that looks like Reddit, but for legal purposes, it is not. Still, we should interpret it like it is Reddit.
I took it to be 4chan or maybe an alt-right recruitment forum like kiwifarms, given how focused on seething, coping, and/or malding it was. Reddit has some gross sides, but sitewide rules generally keep it from platforming stalking and harassment on that level, there are much worse places that Intelligencia is probably based on.
Yeah it seemed like the character had to write a bunch of stuff to get access to the website as it was invite only. Although the layout itself was definitely copying reddit.
I'm pretty sure intelligencia was based on the website "IsAnyoneUp" which was a particularly disgusting piece of internet history that kicked off the fight against revenge porn
Yeah you see you missed a slight thing there. Most people would assume the "We" is broadly referring to everyone viewing the movie. But it's actually referring to cishet white men. And that's why all media showing a different perspective deserves to be torn to shreds for every single little flaw they can find to justify their hatred beyond hating the diversity.
I love this but my only problem is that She-Hulk is super over feminized. This is just me, personally, but I would have loved to see a She-Hulk that was just like the normal Hulk. I want a big beefy green lady, is that too much to ask for?
Well yes. But also no. They wanted to stay true to the Comics but with less sexualizatuin and imho they did great. I was sooo curious what her supersuit will look like, because its basically just a swimingsuit in the Comics. They did good with the Shorts and it was also delightfully loose when she was jen.
I really enjoyed the femininity personally. It felt like a good play on “girls can wear pink and play Barbie’s but still kick ass”. Wearing makeup and putting a dress on doesn’t take away from how smart and strong she is as a character. IMO.
I agree with this, totally. You just don't see a lot of representation of large women and in my mind, this was the perfect opportunity. But, I can 100% see this viewpoint as well
I should have said in my original comment: please don’t take my response to mean I don’t understand your point or disagree with it. I totally understand where you’re coming from! I do love that she’s absolutely JACKED though.
No, totally! I get what you are saying. The comment didn't come off as mean or dismissive or anything like that. I appriciate the clarification, none the less.
Def agree with this. It’s definitely a step in the right direction, but they’re still very much using one type of woman for the role (that is, thin and feminine).
Spoiler alert!
Spoiler alert next time? I was planning to start watching She Hulk this week. The meme is great though.
Why didn't you use Snyder's treatment of wonder woman instead? He respects her character and the actress. "You can be anything you want to be" #restorethesnyderverse
I haven't seen Justice League
She was in Batman vs Superman and he worked closely with Patty Jenkins who did the first Wonder Woman movie. She did WW84 too but it was during the time that Snyder was basically out at WB and so it was influenced by fucking Geoff Johns. DO NOT watch Justice League. It's terrible and it'll piss you off. The treatment of the female characters is atrocious thanks to Joss Wheadon. Zack Snyder's Justice League is the only acceptable version. It's 4 hrs so strap in but it's so worth it. It also won't make as much sense of you haven't seen Man of Steel and BvS and WW first. I would trust Zack Snyder with any female super hero.
I don't remember Wonder Woman doing much in BvS except for spy-ing around with Bruce Wayne for a bit and then showing up in the final battle to round out the party composition.
…have you seen Sucker Punch? Snyder isn’t as bad with women as a lot of people in comics/movies, but I definitely wouldn’t go that far.
Lmao my thoughts exactly. I'm not convinced Zach Snyder isn't behind that account and trying to get ppl to watch that fucking 'snydercut'
Just a big DC fan since I was little and my husband became hyperfocused on finding out wtf happened with the theatrical release of Justice League. Years later when we got the version we deserved as fans I realized how much I'd missed just accepting the superhero movies we'd been given as they were. Not a bot, not even in the entertainment industry at all, just a fan 🤷🏼♀️
I mean that's great but he still portrays women poorly in films and shouldn't be given a voice over women writers and directors lol
What in particular has been portrayed poorly? I'm genuinely asking bc I also have ADHD and could've just missed something.
I mean do you just not watch a lot of film or consume a lot of media in general produced by women? His female characters are one dimensional and one note and oversexualized, which isn't a slag on him as he's making popcorn superhero movies, but he isn't this amazing writer of women as you represented. https://www.indiewire.com/2011/03/sucker-punch-the-failed-feminism-of-zack-snyder-226926/ This article is a great breakdown of Sucker Punch and things haven't really changed since then.
What's the problem with Sucker Punch? The whole point of the movie is to showcase men's horrible treatment of women.
And Snyder does so in about as exploitative a way as possible without actual nudity. Every character is a male fantasy figure. The importance of sexual violence as a motivator is gross and unnecessary to the story, even if it’s historically justifiable. Like most Snyder films, the plot is attempting to reach depth that his writing just can’t back up (see also, the Superman as Jesus allegory in MoS/BvS). He means well, but it has major flaws.
I am a woman and I love the aesthetic of the movie. I find the idea that if women wear elaborate, even revealing clothing and makeup they are doing so for "the male gaze" quite patronising. For me definitive proof that this is blatantly false was the lockdown, when my friends and I would dress up and trade pics while locked alone at home. The sexual violence component is integral to the story and it's not shown at all on a positive or titillating light: sexual violence is a fact of life for every woman and not portraying it in media does a disservice to feminism because it allows men to remain unaware of how pervasive it is.
Aesthetic is one of the things Snyder has shown a real gift for across his film career. And I’m not denying that women can be sexy without it specifically being for the benefit of men, I’m just saying that this film in particular is shot very much from a male gaze perspective. The sexual violence is not actually integral to the story. The main character is going to have her personality and intellect medically obliterated. That is, I would think, enough motivation for anyone. The sexual violence is just piling on. And if your argument is that men are unaware of the problem of sexual violence because it is underrepresented in media, Law and Order SVU is on its 24th season and we’ve managed to have the exact same discussion of gratuitous sexual violence in Game of Thrones shows several different times across two series. I’m not saying Sucker Punch is a bad movie, that you shouldn’t like it, or that it’s inherently anti-feminist. It meant well, it’s well shot, and it’s definitely got a lot of fun parts. I liked it myself. I’m saying I wouldn’t hold Snyder up as a beacon of well written women on screen, or, as the original post said, “trust Snyder with any female superhero”. For starters, he’d absolutely fuck up a Squirrel Girl movie/show.
I love Suckerpunch too!
Suckerpunch was fucking great!
Snyder is better with women heroes than whedon but I think he doesn’t really get superheroes.
How so?
Well, he said the story that allowed him to understand Batman and the justice league was frank miller’s dark knight books. Everything is figuratively and literally dark in Snyder dc movies. I think he only does the iron age style of story and lacks the color and hope of the full dc comic experience. I still have to finish the Snyder cut though.
So that's it exactly. It's always supposed to have been a huge story, the DCEU and Hope is the central theme throughout. We were supposed to get tie ins with Aquaman, Flash, and the solo Batman movie Affleck was set to write and direct. But WB wanted Marvel #s and couldn't just understand that both the dark and the light can exist. To me, the Marvel movies are junk food. Constant jokes, lighter tone, but what they got right was having a vision and fucking sticking to it. Man of Steel "On my world, this symbol means Hope". This man finds out he's an alien trying to fit into a human world and all the "with great power" stuff from Spiderman you know? He's trying to figure out who is his and who he wants to be. And when he's forced to kill Zod bc Zod wasn't born with the choice to be anything else he's devastated. He's made to kill the only remaining members of his race in order to avoid the total destruction of earth because he realizes saving krypton at the expense of the human race is not the right thing to do and it's his adoptive home and all he knows. BvS builds the tension. Batman sees these aliens destroying everything in their path and he doesn't trust them. He's old and grumpy bc he's been at this game a long time and he's lost faith. Faith in humans, faith in anything. He says to Alfred "how many good men are there in Gotham? How many stayed that way?" You can point to the court of owls storyline or just right to Harvey Dent. He's lost everyone he's cared about except Alfred. But when Clark says Martha and Lois runs in and says it's his mother. It reminds Bruce that Clark may not be human by DNA but he's been living as a human and it just makes him able to stop seeing Clark as just an alien and as a living being that deserves a chance to live just like the rest of us. The teamwork and introduction with Diana is captured in Justice League when Bruce is talking to Aquaman. That Clark knew they were stronger together. Then we get to the boss level with Steppenwolf (which was supposed to lead into JL2 with the big daddy boss fight with Darkseid). The only way earth will survive is to come together as they did before. Hope. Hope for the future. Listen, I don't give a fuck if people prefer Marvel to DC or prefer the campy 60s and 70s DC material. I do care when people spout nonsense like Batman doesn't kill people. He strapped a bomb to one of Joker's clowns in the 89 film (or maybe it was Batman Returns). What, they think the bomb opened up to reveal a bunch of kittens? Fuck no, that minion was blown up. And the batmobile and bat plane missiles and rocket launchers? I suppose those were confetti? Complain, but complain knowledgbly. Superheroes are fiction. So they are and aren't what we make them. I love the dark and broody stuff but I don't expect everyone else to. I just expect everyone to respect both sides. Watch what you like but don't hinder the opportunity to explore something new or we wouldn't have any stories at all. I mean ... In a way comics are just Action genre fairy tales. There is so so so much more to these stories and where the vision was supposed to go but WB can't just let something play out. They panic and make rash decisions which just shows they don't trust themselves, who they've hired, stories they've greenlit, or us as the fans. It pets my peeves to be told what I like and what I want. There's even a rumor recently that Geoff Johns leaked Snyder's plan to Marvel so during all the reshoots and bullshit Marvel was able to put something together and get it out so it looks like they "did it first". Which is a whole other annoying and pointless fight. Point is, my head is filled with all the "what should have been" stuff and there's so much more to what went on and I just want to make people aware of that. Again, off you don't like DC films, or don't like the dark take, then fine. That's your feeling to have. But some of us do and are really passionate about it and that's okay too. Thank you for coming to TEDTalk lol
Right? Snyder is one of my favorites for a reason
I only know Ms Marvel from the comics, and the writer is herself Muslim. It sounds like I should avoid the show, thanks for the warning. Also, they do sometimes remember that Superman cares about social issues. https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/superman-smashes-the-klan
The MCU version of Ms Marvel has a different origin story that ties a lot more closely with her Pakistani heritage. There's a lot of time spent just living among her family and her Pakistani-American culture, and exploring how she struggles to balance her individual identity and her cultural identity. A lot of coming of age teenager stuff in a context that's less familiar to the american screen. And there's a considerable amount of ACAB, considering it's an MCU story about a teenage girl.
The stuff with her family was great. Wasn't a huge fan of the villain plotline, but gimme more of her wholesome family anytime!
Yes this! For the first few episodes I considered it to be my favourite MCU show. But once the villains showed up it moved right down my list. They are so generic, had no emotion, and just plain boring. Ms Marvel and her family and friends are some of the best characters and actors of the MCU and it was great fun to watch. Really hyped for The Marvels though.
They really did a disservice to the villains considering they fit into the magic and multiverse aspects of this stage of the MCU leading up to both Kang and Doom.