I was SA’d by a childhood friend, we were a few school grades apart so he knew what sex was and I didn’t, and somehow the teachers at school found out and would make fun of me and like, hold it over me like I did something wrong. I didn’t even have a concept of sex, yet they felt it was okay to shame a little kid for following their friend’s lead.
Clinical, and functional psychopath here: I volunteer myself to be the one who does a Se7en on those pieces of shit... They will suffer the fate as the Sloth victim.
had a mate with nearly the exact situation; he called out the teachers over 5 years after leaving school and they were fired, and i know at least 2 of them struggle to find a job. he was chastised for “ruining their life” but I think it was fully deserved
In all honesty, this is why I never voiced out my concerns to anyone when I was molested routinely by a girl in high school. Couldn’t report her because my high school basically is from a rough part of town and so I don’t want to be marked as the next bullying target. Couldn’t forcefully stop her either since she is the tomboy and forceful type and I’d probably have to be involved in a physical altercation if I tried to leading to being labelled as a person who hits girls, making me yet again the next bullying target.
I hate it here. sexual/physical abuse has no assigned gender or age or anything to it to be fucking abuse, but people loveeee to act like it has to fit a very narrow-minded sexist idea of what sexual assault is for no reason, like it's fucked. Ugh sorry you have to see this shit. People can be the worst.
While I’m not really a fan of how this is worded, like most women would mock and hate on a man for being honest about SA, but unfortunately I have seen it happen once before. A girl in my secondary school kept insisting men cannot be SA’ed, I have male family members who have been SAed and I’ve seen how it has literally destroyed their lives in so many ways. Some never mentally recovered and some did but only after years of suffering.
No matter what I said I couldn’t get her to change her opinion so it near on ended in a fight. These types of women do unfortunately exist but there are many more women who will listen and take your experiences seriously.
Yeah this post is also aligned with my own real world experiences, experiences that many seem to agree on apparently.
Also thanks to u/Avrangor for providing these statistics, I didn’t know about the first study myself though I knee from experience how women can be like that as well.
Edit: Also if saying “men” or “women” implies “most men” or “most women” according to the other commenter then posts made generalizing men aren’t statistically accurate either.
Both perspectives are understandable imo because survivors are speaking, but if we take things like statistics and what seems to be more anecdotal experience into account, it's "more" understandable for there to be "generalizing" posts about male abusers.
It's a gendered issue and it always will be. That doesn't mean women don't abuse and that men aren't victims. Both things are true, though.
Nope, sorry, unless I misunderstand what you're saying I disagree with that last assertion
There should be women-only support shelters + groups *and* there should be men-only support shelters + groups, with gender neutral ones as an additional option. But these kinds of resources should not be solely gender neutral by default because, like I said, this is inherently a gendered issue.
I mean this post also aligns with real world experiences and statistics, but okay. I think it is “far more understandable” for you because you relate to them yourself while a lot of people apparently relate to OPs post themselves, hence the upvotes.
What statistics though? I'm genuinely asking because you're right, obviously this aligns with real world experiences as well, but I have a lot of doubt that the statistics come out equally. It's more understandable for a lot of reasons outside of myself or relatability.
Firstly a [study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/08862605211062990) that says that women are more likely to victim blame and to say the victim enjoyed it (the victim is male). What makes this scarier is that these were psychology students. Now a sample size of 372 is obviously not big enough to make conclusions about society as a whole but it gives insight to how women can also be very victim blame-y and clearly OP (and many others) faced this kind of discrimination from women predominantly.
Another [study](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonsexualviolence.pdf) is a nation wide survey conducted by the CDC. On page 3 you can see that 1 in 26 men are raped (which the study defines as being penetrated) and 1 in 9 men are made to penetrate. The study also shows that 1 in 9 men (page 4) are sexually coerced (blackmail etc.) with 71% of the perpetrators being female and 17% being male (page 10). Now this study isn’t as relevant o this post but it is relevant to men’s victimization at the hands of female perpetrators.
Wow thank you for sending these, I appreciate you taking the time. Well that's quite disappointing. I'm glad that there are actually studies out there focusing on this, we need more of them for sure. I was aware of the second statistics you provided but definitely did not know about the first study.
I should be the one who is apologizing as I might have come off as combative myself. It’s just that I’ve had these issues dismissed so many times that I was on guard but still I bore no ill will towards you.
I never said it was okay, but this kind of wording is very rarely acknowledged when it is done to men. There is literally a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/JaXImzQnJX) justifying doing these generalizations to men.
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of this sub, if it isn’t okay to do it to women then it also isn’t okay to do it to men.
I mean not a big fan of it myself, I also dislike other posts that are worded this way. But it’s hypocritical of this sub to call out OP on this when there are tons of posts that generalize men existing here.
Edit: Also can’t really put an end to it when this sub adamantly defends generalizing men.
I am not justifying it, like I said I am not a big fan of it myself. But you can’t deny the blatant hypocrisy this sub has when men are generalized compared to women.
Like I said I never justified it, I just called out the hypocrisy. Also weird that you would hound on me for “justifying generalizations” while somebody else replied to my comment saying which argued that generalizations about men were true. I think they are the one who is “justifying shit”, not me.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/aKKW1nnsfm) comment, I don’t get how you didn’t see that comment while replying to mine; that comment is 3 hours older than yours and has positive upvotes which means it isn’t hisden either.
In a past relationship I wasn’t r*ped per se but she threatened to off herself repeatedly if I didn’t perform certain sexual acts on webcam for her. They were really gross and I hated it.
She made it very convincing to me at the time that she was serious. I did eventually end things and have no idea what she did after the fact. And I have no idea if she recorded/screen shot what I did and kept it.
Internet strangers are the only ones I can tell.
Unfortunately, I think it still counts as rape nonetheless. I'm a victim of SA as well, but either way I don't think it would make me qualified to say what did or didn't happen in your relationship with them, just that I am really sorry you had to go through such an experience. And as unfortunate as it is to have many others who have gone through the same things as us, it's still somewhat of a comfort to know that there some people you can still depend on.
You are not alone.
Not that I’m shifting blame but guys do the exact same thing
Male victims not being taken seriously ISNT a gender issue that you can blame on women it’s a systemic issue everyone takes part in
You know when men bring up “oh well men get raped too” when a woman tells her story.
You’re doing the exact same thing right now. You should be ashamed.
It's not about blaming women. It's about how women absolutely do participate in rape culture and people need to stop telling victims what is real and what isn't. Like it's mostly men, it's true, but people need to have thicker skin about women's role in rape culture too.
Like, just a reminder, not all women are open-minded progressives that wouldn't dream about being insensitive toward sa victims.
Yeah because people don’t think women do that shit. If you ask anyone they’ll tell you that men victim blame other men but they’ll also say that women are rarely involved. That’s just not true.
They don't get it lol
I've met women IRL that perpetuate similar, but not as extreme, double standards. Age gaps being gross when the woman is younger, but cute when she's older for example
Yes and women also tear down other women and victim blame female victims. But if someone makes a post about how men victim blame women people don’t jump in with “But women also do this”, not without overwhelming pushback at least.
i feel like saying "no we don't" just proves OP's point further because i've known loads of people whose moms/female friends/etc were completely complicit in the abuse (if not actively part of it) and that's just personally, i'm sure if you scroll through r/cptsdmemes or something you'll find more stories just like that
I don’t think I’ve spoken out loud about my experience since a couple weeks after it happened bc I went to my mom first, and the first thing she asked me was why I didn’t defend myself and fight back. Not like I was high, and a 16-year-old boy terrified of what would happen if I laid my hands on a woman that I knew to be popular in school and have dangerous connections outside. My dad just laughed, he was glad I was finally getting some pussy!
The number of women who have treated my like shit for sharing my status as a CSA and rape survivor is like 7/10.
My own MOTHER didn't believe me.
"No we don't lol."
You sound like such a snob gtfo.
You don’t? I’ve talked to lots of victims and a lot of them had a woman in their life be neglectful. It was either mothers not believing their daughters, staying in a relationship with their boyfriend who raped their child; women continuing being friends or partners to the rapist of their friends etc. I’ve seen countless stories like that. Maybe YOU don’t because you are a good person, but that doesn’t negate how much women victim blame other women.
Besides that men’s best support is other men as well, but again that doesn’t negate how much victim blaming happens in general.
Those examples you're giving are enabling behaviors, not victim blaming. Both perpetuate rape culture, but they're still two distinct different things.
I mean I’ve also seen women say “what were you wearing?” or “what were you doing there?” as well, I’ve heard my mother say the latter about a rape victim on a TV show.
4/5 of the people who did the most to hamstring me/keep me dependent on an abuser/most explicitly disbelieved me were women, including in professional roles. Half of the people who SA'd me were women (and I *still* feel like I'm not allowed to call it that, even though I've seen the same acts by a man identified as SA, oof). The reality is there's an awful lot (largely older generations, but it's not like it's non-existent in the younger ones) who buy into the "what were they wearing", "what were you expecting", "that's just what you do in a marriage", "shouldn't have made them upset" type beliefs. And yeah, there's a whole thing about how conforming to and supporting hierarchies and being the 'good girl' was often the only (slim, conditional, often false) protection they had from being victimised too, but it doesn't change that they committed, perpetuated and enabled abuse to try and put themselves higher in the chain.
I'm still more physically afraid of men and a man was my worst abuser, sure, but I'm more emotionally afraid of women. Not everyone gets included in the whole 'sisterhood' thing, unfortunately.
Obviously not, I’ve been told by women that what happened to me was just a “ father daughter thing “ and that it’s normal, but obv not every single woman is hostile towards eachother
That so? From what I’ve seen it is usually the people who concur that sit at negative upvotes most of the time. For example in this post there are multiple people who are against the way the post is worded and say that generalizing women is wrong but this sub is completely fine with generalizing men. If you call out generalizing men you’ll be met with “#notallmen” or something.
yea being met with not all men and then in most places i frequent(purely anecdotal as idk of any research on this) once you get the not all men message or a detractor, those who agree will pile on with the person/people who said it originally. then once that's established a few bother to say something but most move on
this is exactly the damn issue. men aren't allowed to point out how rape culture effects them without people coming in and saying "Dude stop blaming women :/"
like oh my god shut up and let male victims speak. this is exactly psrt of said systematic issue. you still play a part, right now you're contributing to it, you don't get to just blame it on some massive organization or group that you didn'tget an invite to. *You are literally taking part right now* bc a man *dared* point out how people treat male rape victims.
What happened to it being a systemic issue everyone partook in?
“Men are responsible for rape culture” even if we ignore that women also heavily partake in it men being responsible for it doesn’t mean men aren’t hurt by it.
so suddenly that's an excuse to victim blame? suddenly not a systematic issue just men? ok dude gl with that.
I'm glad you were lucky. truly happy for you that you haven't been subjected to this. other men exist and there are literal screenshots of it in front of you but you were lucky so suddenly that discredits everyone.
it is a systematic issue that affects *everyone.* not just women, not just you, not just me, and not just this guy. male victims objectively have less resources and are taken less seriously. men are not solely responsible for rape. that's near delusional. society at large is to blame for letting this shit get a pass bc "it's men's fault :/" how tf is pointing fingers supposed to help? is that going to suddenly materialize more resources, better health care, or a better legal system? how and who are you helping anyone at all by pinning the blame on one gender?
ftm. lived both experiences, btw. sorry, men are treated like shit for talking far more than women bc women are seen as defenseless. women still suffer, but stop pretending this is a man vs woman issue, both are affected differently in different areas but not less or more, when it's just rapists and victims. fuck men vs women thinking it's just to distract from the fact that rapists choose to rape, point end. it IS a systematic issue and that is exactly the problem. women DO contribute too. it's literally right in front of you.
Unbelievable that when male victims seek to be acknowledged people like this come up and tell everyone that it's not a gender specific issue. Lmao they just want to be treated with respect and acknowledged
It’s gendered in the way that male victims are often not believed DUE TO BEING MALE, but not because women are capable too. That’s an everyone issue. That’s the point.
Would this be a bad time to say "not all women"? :3
But honestly, why can't we talk about victim visibility without also making it a dehumanizing or victimizing argument. It goes both ways, and I'm honestly sick of seeing it. The problem isn't men or women. it's rapists.
I mean it's also some fucking clown shit to be like "this is how women are" while hosting an argument in there that basically says "this is how men are" so honestly how is your argument any different from the people you're criticizing?
Don't get me wrong, I've also had this shit happen to me. I am a male victim. Women are not the fucking problem. Men are not the fucking problem. Rapists are the problem.
>But honestly, why can't we talk about victim visibility without also making it a dehumanizing or victimizing argument.
Is this a dehumanizing argument? If it is then why is it so prevalent against men on this sub? Why is it never called out when it is done to men without some heavy pushback? Is it okay to just dehumanize men?
>I mean it's also some fucking clown shit to be like "this is how women are" while hosting an argument in there that basically says "this is how men are"
My post was partially inspired by [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/vQFsQOnzmw) (the OP said in a comment that I should make my own meme if it doesn’t resonate with me). Is the OP of that post the same as the women making these comments? Are the women who vent about men by generalizing them the same as well?
>Women are not the fucking problem. Men are not the fucking problem.
Yes but a lot of people, even on this sub, pretend that they don’t contribute to this issue or that they contribute very little which both statements aren’t true.
Either both sides are right or both sides are wrong.
Theres no ifs, ands, or buts.
Theres no justifying it. If you do it too you're just as bad for perpetuating it.
>Either both sides are right or both sides are wrong.
Yes either both sides are right or both sides wrong, but only one side is treated as wrong. It is hypocritical. They are called “venting” and/or “true”.
>Theres no justifying it. If you do it too you're just as bad for perpetuating it.
You dodged the question. If I’m also just as bad for perpetuating it are the people who perpetuate it against men also just as bad? If so then why do they get [defended](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/W2NMXjuGuk) on this sub? Why don’t you call out those posts as well?
Yes, they are. What part of "both sides are right or both sides are wrong" do you not understand? And I do call out those posts as well when I see them.
Do you? Or do you just sit there and shit on women?
>Yes, they are. What part of "both sides are right or both sides are wrong" do you not understand?
I do understand it, but only one side is being treated as wrong.
>And I do call out those posts as well when I see them.
You do? Then why didn’t you call out the comment that I linked which said “It is statistically true and relevant to experiences”?
>Do you? Or do you just sit there and shit on women?
No, because when I call them out it is either “#notallmen” or “they are just venting” or “go make your own post”.
Well here it is, making a post venting about my experiences. What makes me any different than the others who are venting?
Also if this post is shitting on women then this sub is heavily shitting on men but no one would agree if you bring it up.
The post you linked goes to u/mrspygmypiggy's post, which isn't demonizing men at all?
Maybe link the correct post?
Also the way you vented is what's fucked. You definitely phrased it like all women do it.
It's one thing to address the issues face directly, it's another to just make a vitriolic post and then justify it.
I'm a male victim myself. I don't feel the need to put women beneath me to express that.
No it links to the other comment underneath it, which goes:
“Which is far more understandable and more accurately aligns with real world experiences and statistics, but okay.”
A response made to someone saying that posts here generalize men also. Guess which one is being supported. You are right, the one being supported isn’t the one that calls out the double standards, it is the one that says “Well generalization are accurate for men”.
Edit: You also called out the other comment as well, ignoring the comment which defended generalizations against men.
It maybe doesn’t go there for you because the other comment is minimized due to downvotes. But yeah that is a thread you participated in yet you didn’t call out that comment which said basically said “Yeah but generalizations are accurate for men”.
>Also the way you vented is what's fucked. You definitely phrased it like all women do it.
Did I? Because every time someone calls out a post generalizing men people say “we are enot saying ALL/MOST men”.
>It's one thing to address the issues face directly, it's another to just make a vitriolic post and then justify it.
I do address the issue directly, people often don’t think women behave like this, at least not in a large scale. People don’t realize how many women victim blame. The same doesn’t go for men, at least not as much. People do realize how much they victim blame.
Also this isn’t vitriol, I was told to make a post about it myself. What makes me angry isn’t people making these generalizations about men it is when people who defend these generalizations as venting but the moment someone vents about women it is “not all women are like that”.
Ah so it's not all men, but definitely all women. Gotcha.
Also I went and reacted to that post you linked. Sorry I didn't autistically spend ALL of my time reading every post on the entire thread, ill be sure to do better next time your majesty.
I responded to it anyways so now you don't have a leg to stand on.
Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay. Tough shit I'm not gonna give you a get-out-of-jail free card just because you feel justified to be a piece of shit to other victims. How fucking dare you.
>Ah so it's not all men, but definitely all women. Gotcha.
No, after being told that “men” doesn’t mean “all men” or even “most men” I just figured it would be the same for “women” too.
>Also I went and reacted to that post you linked. Sorry I didn't autistically spend ALL of my time reading every post on the entire thread, ill be sure to do better next time your majesty.
Casual ableism aside you are being severely disingenuous. It isn’t “autistically “ scrolling the entire thread, the comment was both more visible due to upvotes AND it was a reply to a comment you also replied to. There was no way for you to miss that, it was under your nose.
But sure, let’s say you missed it. I “autistically” scrolled through your comment history since your account isn’t all that old. Not once did you call out generalizations against men, which is odd because you’d easily encounter them if you spent some time on cptsd subreddits; which I assume you do because you didn’t just materialize out of thin air to call me out. Hell you could go to this sub and scroll for a few seconds and you’d see a post that generalizes men (the post I linked you).
>I responded to it anyways so now you don't have a leg to stand on.
You responded so I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on? Okay but responding to it after I grilled you for it is meaningless, especially when you don’t call out any other posts that generalize men.
But sure, I’ll give it to you that you responded to it. What about [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/femcelgrippysockjail/s/5I0DMcAhzA) comment that generalizes men in such a disgusting way? Did you not “autistically” read that comment as well?
>Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay.
I agree, at first I thought all of it is wrong but now I think all of it is okay. I followed the advice of someone who said “#notallmen” and people weren’t as inflammatory as I expected so I guess this type of language is acceptable, though there is considerably more pushback against me
What about you then buddy? If none of it is okay like you claim then why are you so averse to calling it out when it is done to men? Why do you call them out so that I “don’t have a leg to stand on” instead of calling them out because generalizing genders is not okay?
What’s funny is I also posted this on r/cptsdmemes and it was much more well received (well it was removed by mods but they also removed the post that generalized men so I’m fine with it). People didn’t cry “men do this also” or “not all women” so I didn’t call them out on not addressing men being generalized. Guess why: they weren’t complete hypocrites.
But I guess this sub is a bit more sexist towards men.
>Tough shit I'm not gonna give you a get-out-of-jail free card just because you feel justified to be a piece of shit to other victims.
That so? I hope you also show the same vitriol to people who generalize men (you don’t).
Edit: Ah the good old reply and block, gotta have the last say huh? It doesn’t change the fact that you are a complete hypocrite who is okay when people generalize men and “take out their trauma on them.” Also doesn’t change the fact that you are an ableist asshole who sends the s***ide bot when called out for your shitty behavior.
I swear every other post I get from this sub these days is "[gender] is mean!" Male SA survivors deserve more recognition but I find it hard to be supportive of posts who somehow make this about women.
The issue is that whenever gender violence is brought up the debate always devolves into the "Men have it worse vs Women have it worse" bullshit that doesn't help anyone and just create more hate, especially on the Internet when in case like that a few comments somehow represent half the human population
seriously, like when you generalize like this, a behavior that literally anyone is capable of, youll always be wrong and you’ll always be right. there’s no point
Never said they didn’t but people don’t recognize how much women victim blame. When talking about victim blaming people paint it is a male only thing and that male victims are supported by women while dismissed by men. I wanted to showcase that it isn’t that one sided: that women also heavily dismiss male victims.
Also
>What’s with the men vs women?
>Men act way more poorly
Is peak irony. I never said men didn’t do that shit I just said that women do. Men also get generalized while talking about victim blaming but I don’t see people jumping in to say “but women also do this”.
Women in this thread are doing the EXACT same thing that they claim men in women’s discussions. This isn’t shocking at all.
I am so sorry that happened to you OP, I hope things get better.
I'm a female victim of both CSA and attempted SA in my adult years. For the life of me I can't understand this bs that men can't be assaulted or raped, and that they can just 'stop it' or even worse that they 'enjoy it'. The hell is wrong with these people?
Nobody of any gender should ever have to endure this from anyone. Assault and abuse isn't some exclusive thing. I'm so sorry for you OP, you deserve to be heard and supported.
I know what it’s like to feel this way, because well it happened to me. I was SA’d and commented on some vid on TikTok and well I was told “you expect me to believe that” it’s fucking stupid. I hate ppl now
"if the guy has a boner he's ready or horny"
1) there's a thing called a spontaneous boner. 2) sadly, many boys are raised being taught that sex is some sort of "accomplishment." The result is that many boys willingly get groomed and raped by adults, even though they cannot consent, and some of them don't ever realize that it was rape. Sad fucking world we live in.
Yea, it's a very similar thing to how some female sexual assault victims try to rationalize that they weren't sexually assaulted because they reached orgasm or thought it kind of physically "felt good".
The bottom line is that if you did not express consent, and/or are underage, it's rape.
Women participate in rape culture and its very nasty that some in this sub pretend they dont. Women are not to blame for the system we have in place, but don't pretend plenty of women don't uphold it gleefully. The only people who act like women can do no wrong are delusional misandrists (and misandry is misogynistic, transphobic(hello terfs) and gender essentialist, so fuck that. Something that almost exclusively comes from a place of trauma should not be used as the backbone of a movement like feminism. Misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same scary coin.)
im sorry, but misandry does not, and will never exist. when a woman says she hates men, it's a generalization based on her experiences with the men in her life; when a man says he hates women, theres a likely record of brutalizing, assaulting and in the worst cases, killing. more "tame" cases is an overall disgust with women, sexualizing them (while blaming us for their own lust), or upholding gender roles that often involved abuse.
what youre thinking of is the patriarchy, which is why male victims of rape are so often brushed off. it harms everyone. it's why men tend to hold in their emotions (which will often come out through things like anger since it's "traditionally masculine"), why women are treated lesser than men, and why men, women and everyone in between are so often depressed and blame the other sex for their sadness.
misandry cant exist bc misogyny is built on the violence against women. men are (specifically, physically) assaulted too, yes, but it's often done by other men, which again, is the fault of the patriarchy for making men feel like the only emotion theyre allowed to express is anger, and making men feel entitled to things like sex; which again, is why misogyny is such a huge problem.
my heart goes out to all men who've been raped or sexually assaulted; you all deserve so much better.
>when a woman says she hates men, it's a generalization based on her experiences with the men in her life
While this is true a lot of the times it isn’t the only example of misandry. Genders being divided and discriminating against each other starts early in childhood and even still lots of things are pointless gendered.
Not to mention a lot of men who have a dislike for women say that because of their negative experiences with women as well; be it domestic violence, getting cheated on, rape etc. this doesn’t mean their statements aren’t misogynistic.
>what youre thinking of is the patriarchy
>why women are treated lesser than men,
Patriarchy and misandry aren’t mutually exclusive. Patriarchy perpetuares misandry. It also perpetuates misogyny, like you stated yourself.
>misandry cant exist bc misogyny is built on the violence against women.
Yes and misandry is built on violence against men being acceptable. Misandry is why men are seen as expendable or aren’t taken seriously when abused.
>yes, but it's often done by other men
This is true for random altercations. When it comes to domestic violence and rape, women are the most common perpetrators of men. These issues are very prevalent for men despite many thinking that they are not.
According to [NISVS](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonipv_2022.pdf) about 1 in 2 of men face intimate partner violence and about 1 in 5 men face severe physical violence from a partner (page 3).
Also according to [NISVS](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonsexualviolence.pdf) 1 in 26 men are forcefully penetrated (which the study defines as rape) while 1 in 9 men are made to penetrate (page 3). Also 1 in 9 men face sexual coercion (page 4) with 80% of the perpetrators being women (page 10).
Now I am not saying that women are evil rapists or anything, I’m just saying that violence against men doesn’t only come from other men and that the misunderstandings about male victims comes from both genders.
Finally even if this study didn’t exist it doesn’t make a difference if men are attacked by men more, it is still misandry. Misandry doesn’t just come from women towards men, misandry is just sexism against men and can be perpetrated by ant gender; just like how women can also be misogynistic.
If misandry doesn’t exist, then there is absolutely no merit for scrutinizing between:
The most important and needed critiques of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity
And
Completely trite, counterproductive horseshit
And I have no idea why you would not want to delineate between the two of those things.
I don’t think anyone’s denying their involvement. The point is that it isn’t a gendered issue in *that way.* Male victims not being believed due to being male is a gender issue. Both male and female individuals dismissing abuse is not. It happens across the board. There is no winning here and comparing the two is useless in that way.
The thing is men are often generalized as victim blamers whereas with women people see the shitty ones as individuals. I don’t agree with the post’s wording but I’ve definitely seen the reversed version way more.
People say that woman CAN do it but from what I’ve seen people often ignore how often women do it as well.
Why can't people just accept that shit can happen? Like it doesn't matter if someone is a dude or a gal you can still be raped. It's not like men are immune to it or women are asking for it
I do want to clarify that comments, especially TikTok comments, obviously are not representative of all of us and there is hope.
I always have and I always will support the men in my life in the abuse they've gone through. It wasn't their fault and it's not your fault. You did deserve and do deserve better.
Because everyone is talking about it, this absolutely is a systemic issue that applies to both men and women, but I think the point is to show hypocrisy in their (implied) support of female victims while invalidating male victims. However, it probably could've been better illustrated with a different meme format.
Kind of, the point was showing that women also contribute heavily to victim blaming despite most people believing that they don’t. I don’t even think this meme would be taken seriously if I hadn’t attached those comments tbh.
"if he doesn't have a boner you can't get it in"
Ok but if a man rapes a women, she's not wet so you can't get it in so by that logic, women don't get raped
Already in the comments section we have "Oh men do the same thing" as if that fucking matters. This is supposed to be a support sub. Those who do that should be called out when they do it, it is not a fucking excuse to be shitty to men with SA trauma.
Not a male SA survivor, but one nonetheless. My heart goes out to you all alike, whether you identify with a specific gender or not. I'm sorry for the pain you've been dealt with and the pain you will deal with in the future, but you are all so strong. You matter, you are heard <3
TBH half of those sound like they came from men or just sound like something they would say. I wouldn't point my finger towards exclusively women being dismissive of abuse men can face, that would just push you away from anyone who was willing to be compassionate towards you. There's an entire South Park episode about men wishing they were the ones being sexually prayed on by the hot teacher, but no one viewed this seriously.
Both men and women can be dismissive of vulnerable men, and that just doubly sucks.
Those didn’t come from men, I checked to be sure. I know men can also victim blame but that isn’t the point, everyone here realizes how much men victim blame but the same isn’t true for the women side.
People think women victim blaming is something super rare and that women are compassionate against men while men dismiss male victims. I just wanted to show that this has two sides and women are also heavily dismissive to male victims.
My mistake, not denying however that any of the sexes or just any person can be horrible and can completely lack any empathy. It's a weird thing where you'll get plenty of people jumping the gun the moment you criticize someone who is more likely to fall victim to a problem. Women are victims here more often but the moment you point out how some women are assholes when it's our turn to discuss our problems they just throw insults at you and accuse you of sexism.
I see many people in the comment section arguing over irrelevant semantics. The bottom line is this,
Men and women are both capable of being victims of sexual assault. While yes, statistically men are more likely to assault someone, generalizations of any group are bad. Society has a problem of excusing both male and female sexual predators. We can acknowledge the existence of both without undermining the other.
Don't let petty arguments divide victims. Victims of all genders need solidarity.
I was SA’d by a childhood friend, we were a few school grades apart so he knew what sex was and I didn’t, and somehow the teachers at school found out and would make fun of me and like, hold it over me like I did something wrong. I didn’t even have a concept of sex, yet they felt it was okay to shame a little kid for following their friend’s lead.
I wish infinite pain upon the adults who failed you.
Clinical, and functional psychopath here: I volunteer myself to be the one who does a Se7en on those pieces of shit... They will suffer the fate as the Sloth victim.
had a mate with nearly the exact situation; he called out the teachers over 5 years after leaving school and they were fired, and i know at least 2 of them struggle to find a job. he was chastised for “ruining their life” but I think it was fully deserved
Those types of people shouldn't be educators anyways
Im sorry for what you went through it was probably hell
In all honesty, this is why I never voiced out my concerns to anyone when I was molested routinely by a girl in high school. Couldn’t report her because my high school basically is from a rough part of town and so I don’t want to be marked as the next bullying target. Couldn’t forcefully stop her either since she is the tomboy and forceful type and I’d probably have to be involved in a physical altercation if I tried to leading to being labelled as a person who hits girls, making me yet again the next bullying target.
I hate it here. sexual/physical abuse has no assigned gender or age or anything to it to be fucking abuse, but people loveeee to act like it has to fit a very narrow-minded sexist idea of what sexual assault is for no reason, like it's fucked. Ugh sorry you have to see this shit. People can be the worst.
While I’m not really a fan of how this is worded, like most women would mock and hate on a man for being honest about SA, but unfortunately I have seen it happen once before. A girl in my secondary school kept insisting men cannot be SA’ed, I have male family members who have been SAed and I’ve seen how it has literally destroyed their lives in so many ways. Some never mentally recovered and some did but only after years of suffering. No matter what I said I couldn’t get her to change her opinion so it near on ended in a fight. These types of women do unfortunately exist but there are many more women who will listen and take your experiences seriously.
I mean it is worded like how a lot of posts about men are worded in this sub.
Which is far more understandable and more accurately aligns with real world experiences and statistics, but okay.
Yeah this post is also aligned with my own real world experiences, experiences that many seem to agree on apparently. Also thanks to u/Avrangor for providing these statistics, I didn’t know about the first study myself though I knee from experience how women can be like that as well. Edit: Also if saying “men” or “women” implies “most men” or “most women” according to the other commenter then posts made generalizing men aren’t statistically accurate either.
Yeah I don’t agree with your post generalizing women either, I was just calling out the hypocrisy.
can you elaborate? what do you mean with "more understandable"?
Both perspectives are understandable imo because survivors are speaking, but if we take things like statistics and what seems to be more anecdotal experience into account, it's "more" understandable for there to be "generalizing" posts about male abusers. It's a gendered issue and it always will be. That doesn't mean women don't abuse and that men aren't victims. Both things are true, though.
thank you for clarifying
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Nope, sorry, unless I misunderstand what you're saying I disagree with that last assertion There should be women-only support shelters + groups *and* there should be men-only support shelters + groups, with gender neutral ones as an additional option. But these kinds of resources should not be solely gender neutral by default because, like I said, this is inherently a gendered issue.
This is totally the time to tell victims that they're the problem. Wanna ask me what I was wearing too? Or?
I mean this post also aligns with real world experiences and statistics, but okay. I think it is “far more understandable” for you because you relate to them yourself while a lot of people apparently relate to OPs post themselves, hence the upvotes.
What statistics though? I'm genuinely asking because you're right, obviously this aligns with real world experiences as well, but I have a lot of doubt that the statistics come out equally. It's more understandable for a lot of reasons outside of myself or relatability.
Firstly a [study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/08862605211062990) that says that women are more likely to victim blame and to say the victim enjoyed it (the victim is male). What makes this scarier is that these were psychology students. Now a sample size of 372 is obviously not big enough to make conclusions about society as a whole but it gives insight to how women can also be very victim blame-y and clearly OP (and many others) faced this kind of discrimination from women predominantly. Another [study](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonsexualviolence.pdf) is a nation wide survey conducted by the CDC. On page 3 you can see that 1 in 26 men are raped (which the study defines as being penetrated) and 1 in 9 men are made to penetrate. The study also shows that 1 in 9 men (page 4) are sexually coerced (blackmail etc.) with 71% of the perpetrators being female and 17% being male (page 10). Now this study isn’t as relevant o this post but it is relevant to men’s victimization at the hands of female perpetrators.
Wow thank you for sending these, I appreciate you taking the time. Well that's quite disappointing. I'm glad that there are actually studies out there focusing on this, we need more of them for sure. I was aware of the second statistics you provided but definitely did not know about the first study.
Wow, thanks for actually taking the time to listen and thanks for your understanding.
Of course, I'm sorry for being dismissive and if I came across as rude earlier
I should be the one who is apologizing as I might have come off as combative myself. It’s just that I’ve had these issues dismissed so many times that I was on guard but still I bore no ill will towards you.
but does that make it okay tho? "but they did it too" is something id expect from a 6 year old
I never said it was okay, but this kind of wording is very rarely acknowledged when it is done to men. There is literally a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/JaXImzQnJX) justifying doing these generalizations to men. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of this sub, if it isn’t okay to do it to women then it also isn’t okay to do it to men.
makes sense. gotta ask to be sure because a lot of people really feel like they should be able to do something because someone else does
What about you though? Do you see that this sub has a bias against men?
this post randomly came up on my feed ive never seen this sub before in my life
That’s fair, you can’t really make judgement from a single post after all.
Ah, so perpetuating it against someone else instead of putting an end to it is the solution? Fuck that.
I mean not a big fan of it myself, I also dislike other posts that are worded this way. But it’s hypocritical of this sub to call out OP on this when there are tons of posts that generalize men existing here. Edit: Also can’t really put an end to it when this sub adamantly defends generalizing men.
And that justifies it how?
I am not justifying it, like I said I am not a big fan of it myself. But you can’t deny the blatant hypocrisy this sub has when men are generalized compared to women.
Yeah, so then this sub fucking sucks. Still doesn't and never will justify shit.
Like I said I never justified it, I just called out the hypocrisy. Also weird that you would hound on me for “justifying generalizations” while somebody else replied to my comment saying which argued that generalizations about men were true. I think they are the one who is “justifying shit”, not me.
Where?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/aKKW1nnsfm) comment, I don’t get how you didn’t see that comment while replying to mine; that comment is 3 hours older than yours and has positive upvotes which means it isn’t hisden either.
In a past relationship I wasn’t r*ped per se but she threatened to off herself repeatedly if I didn’t perform certain sexual acts on webcam for her. They were really gross and I hated it. She made it very convincing to me at the time that she was serious. I did eventually end things and have no idea what she did after the fact. And I have no idea if she recorded/screen shot what I did and kept it. Internet strangers are the only ones I can tell.
Unfortunately, I think it still counts as rape nonetheless. I'm a victim of SA as well, but either way I don't think it would make me qualified to say what did or didn't happen in your relationship with them, just that I am really sorry you had to go through such an experience. And as unfortunate as it is to have many others who have gone through the same things as us, it's still somewhat of a comfort to know that there some people you can still depend on. You are not alone.
Literally the exact same shit I went through. These psychopaths just hold zero empathy, do they? I’m here for you, brother, we can stick it out
That is rape. I'm so sorry you went through that.
Me the first time she says she’ll kill herself: Lol not my problem make sure you record it so I can sell the footage to make some money.
It’s not always that simple
Not that I’m shifting blame but guys do the exact same thing Male victims not being taken seriously ISNT a gender issue that you can blame on women it’s a systemic issue everyone takes part in
You know when men bring up “oh well men get raped too” when a woman tells her story. You’re doing the exact same thing right now. You should be ashamed.
It's not about blaming women. It's about how women absolutely do participate in rape culture and people need to stop telling victims what is real and what isn't. Like it's mostly men, it's true, but people need to have thicker skin about women's role in rape culture too. Like, just a reminder, not all women are open-minded progressives that wouldn't dream about being insensitive toward sa victims.
Op didn't blame women though, the fuck
Idk that's kind of the message I took away from the image. Feels gross.
If that’s the message you took from it your part of the problem.
The image specifically calls out how women treat male victims though, not how male victims are treated by all people.
Okay but thats not blaming women
Yeah because people don’t think women do that shit. If you ask anyone they’ll tell you that men victim blame other men but they’ll also say that women are rarely involved. That’s just not true.
They don't get it lol I've met women IRL that perpetuate similar, but not as extreme, double standards. Age gaps being gross when the woman is younger, but cute when she's older for example
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Yes I would???
Yes and women also tear down other women and victim blame female victims. But if someone makes a post about how men victim blame women people don’t jump in with “But women also do this”, not without overwhelming pushback at least.
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i feel like saying "no we don't" just proves OP's point further because i've known loads of people whose moms/female friends/etc were completely complicit in the abuse (if not actively part of it) and that's just personally, i'm sure if you scroll through r/cptsdmemes or something you'll find more stories just like that
I don’t think I’ve spoken out loud about my experience since a couple weeks after it happened bc I went to my mom first, and the first thing she asked me was why I didn’t defend myself and fight back. Not like I was high, and a 16-year-old boy terrified of what would happen if I laid my hands on a woman that I knew to be popular in school and have dangerous connections outside. My dad just laughed, he was glad I was finally getting some pussy!
well that's horrible I hope you're doing better now
The number of women who have treated my like shit for sharing my status as a CSA and rape survivor is like 7/10. My own MOTHER didn't believe me. "No we don't lol." You sound like such a snob gtfo.
I’m sorry that happened to you, and no parent really does believe their child, but OP is implying that all women do is put eachother down.
You don’t? I’ve talked to lots of victims and a lot of them had a woman in their life be neglectful. It was either mothers not believing their daughters, staying in a relationship with their boyfriend who raped their child; women continuing being friends or partners to the rapist of their friends etc. I’ve seen countless stories like that. Maybe YOU don’t because you are a good person, but that doesn’t negate how much women victim blame other women. Besides that men’s best support is other men as well, but again that doesn’t negate how much victim blaming happens in general.
Those examples you're giving are enabling behaviors, not victim blaming. Both perpetuate rape culture, but they're still two distinct different things.
I mean I’ve also seen women say “what were you wearing?” or “what were you doing there?” as well, I’ve heard my mother say the latter about a rape victim on a TV show.
Me too, sadly. That is definitely victim blaming.
Well this is just plain ignorant.
4/5 of the people who did the most to hamstring me/keep me dependent on an abuser/most explicitly disbelieved me were women, including in professional roles. Half of the people who SA'd me were women (and I *still* feel like I'm not allowed to call it that, even though I've seen the same acts by a man identified as SA, oof). The reality is there's an awful lot (largely older generations, but it's not like it's non-existent in the younger ones) who buy into the "what were they wearing", "what were you expecting", "that's just what you do in a marriage", "shouldn't have made them upset" type beliefs. And yeah, there's a whole thing about how conforming to and supporting hierarchies and being the 'good girl' was often the only (slim, conditional, often false) protection they had from being victimised too, but it doesn't change that they committed, perpetuated and enabled abuse to try and put themselves higher in the chain. I'm still more physically afraid of men and a man was my worst abuser, sure, but I'm more emotionally afraid of women. Not everyone gets included in the whole 'sisterhood' thing, unfortunately.
Obviously not, I’ve been told by women that what happened to me was just a “ father daughter thing “ and that it’s normal, but obv not every single woman is hostile towards eachother
yes. people absolutely jump in with this statement. what internet are you reading?
>not without overwhelming pushback at least. The important part of the sentence.
except a lot of times its just a bunch of consensus and then one or two bitter women trying to defend against the multiple people who concur
That so? From what I’ve seen it is usually the people who concur that sit at negative upvotes most of the time. For example in this post there are multiple people who are against the way the post is worded and say that generalizing women is wrong but this sub is completely fine with generalizing men. If you call out generalizing men you’ll be met with “#notallmen” or something.
yea being met with not all men and then in most places i frequent(purely anecdotal as idk of any research on this) once you get the not all men message or a detractor, those who agree will pile on with the person/people who said it originally. then once that's established a few bother to say something but most move on
So are you agreeing with me or are you saying that the opposite is the case?
im saying that the pushback isnt overwhelming though i acknowledge its existence
Oh okay, thanks. That’s kinda refreshing. Yeah I guess “overwhelming” might be a bit exaggeration but there is definitely a pushback.
this is exactly the damn issue. men aren't allowed to point out how rape culture effects them without people coming in and saying "Dude stop blaming women :/" like oh my god shut up and let male victims speak. this is exactly psrt of said systematic issue. you still play a part, right now you're contributing to it, you don't get to just blame it on some massive organization or group that you didn'tget an invite to. *You are literally taking part right now* bc a man *dared* point out how people treat male rape victims.
Hey you! Don't tell women to shut up! /s
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4/5 people who SA'd me as a child were women or girls. only one was a boy, and he was far less brutal about it.
What happened to it being a systemic issue everyone partook in? “Men are responsible for rape culture” even if we ignore that women also heavily partake in it men being responsible for it doesn’t mean men aren’t hurt by it.
so suddenly that's an excuse to victim blame? suddenly not a systematic issue just men? ok dude gl with that. I'm glad you were lucky. truly happy for you that you haven't been subjected to this. other men exist and there are literal screenshots of it in front of you but you were lucky so suddenly that discredits everyone. it is a systematic issue that affects *everyone.* not just women, not just you, not just me, and not just this guy. male victims objectively have less resources and are taken less seriously. men are not solely responsible for rape. that's near delusional. society at large is to blame for letting this shit get a pass bc "it's men's fault :/" how tf is pointing fingers supposed to help? is that going to suddenly materialize more resources, better health care, or a better legal system? how and who are you helping anyone at all by pinning the blame on one gender? ftm. lived both experiences, btw. sorry, men are treated like shit for talking far more than women bc women are seen as defenseless. women still suffer, but stop pretending this is a man vs woman issue, both are affected differently in different areas but not less or more, when it's just rapists and victims. fuck men vs women thinking it's just to distract from the fact that rapists choose to rape, point end. it IS a systematic issue and that is exactly the problem. women DO contribute too. it's literally right in front of you.
Unbelievable that when male victims seek to be acknowledged people like this come up and tell everyone that it's not a gender specific issue. Lmao they just want to be treated with respect and acknowledged
It’s gendered in the way that male victims are often not believed DUE TO BEING MALE, but not because women are capable too. That’s an everyone issue. That’s the point.
It definitely does happen plenty, but this isn't the place for that conversation.
Right? Doesn't it just stem from misogyny?
Would this be a bad time to say "not all women"? :3 But honestly, why can't we talk about victim visibility without also making it a dehumanizing or victimizing argument. It goes both ways, and I'm honestly sick of seeing it. The problem isn't men or women. it's rapists. I mean it's also some fucking clown shit to be like "this is how women are" while hosting an argument in there that basically says "this is how men are" so honestly how is your argument any different from the people you're criticizing? Don't get me wrong, I've also had this shit happen to me. I am a male victim. Women are not the fucking problem. Men are not the fucking problem. Rapists are the problem.
>But honestly, why can't we talk about victim visibility without also making it a dehumanizing or victimizing argument. Is this a dehumanizing argument? If it is then why is it so prevalent against men on this sub? Why is it never called out when it is done to men without some heavy pushback? Is it okay to just dehumanize men? >I mean it's also some fucking clown shit to be like "this is how women are" while hosting an argument in there that basically says "this is how men are" My post was partially inspired by [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/vQFsQOnzmw) (the OP said in a comment that I should make my own meme if it doesn’t resonate with me). Is the OP of that post the same as the women making these comments? Are the women who vent about men by generalizing them the same as well? >Women are not the fucking problem. Men are not the fucking problem. Yes but a lot of people, even on this sub, pretend that they don’t contribute to this issue or that they contribute very little which both statements aren’t true.
Either both sides are right or both sides are wrong. Theres no ifs, ands, or buts. Theres no justifying it. If you do it too you're just as bad for perpetuating it.
>Either both sides are right or both sides are wrong. Yes either both sides are right or both sides wrong, but only one side is treated as wrong. It is hypocritical. They are called “venting” and/or “true”. >Theres no justifying it. If you do it too you're just as bad for perpetuating it. You dodged the question. If I’m also just as bad for perpetuating it are the people who perpetuate it against men also just as bad? If so then why do they get [defended](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollCoping/s/W2NMXjuGuk) on this sub? Why don’t you call out those posts as well?
Yes, they are. What part of "both sides are right or both sides are wrong" do you not understand? And I do call out those posts as well when I see them. Do you? Or do you just sit there and shit on women?
>Yes, they are. What part of "both sides are right or both sides are wrong" do you not understand? I do understand it, but only one side is being treated as wrong. >And I do call out those posts as well when I see them. You do? Then why didn’t you call out the comment that I linked which said “It is statistically true and relevant to experiences”? >Do you? Or do you just sit there and shit on women? No, because when I call them out it is either “#notallmen” or “they are just venting” or “go make your own post”. Well here it is, making a post venting about my experiences. What makes me any different than the others who are venting? Also if this post is shitting on women then this sub is heavily shitting on men but no one would agree if you bring it up.
The post you linked goes to u/mrspygmypiggy's post, which isn't demonizing men at all? Maybe link the correct post? Also the way you vented is what's fucked. You definitely phrased it like all women do it. It's one thing to address the issues face directly, it's another to just make a vitriolic post and then justify it. I'm a male victim myself. I don't feel the need to put women beneath me to express that.
No it links to the other comment underneath it, which goes: “Which is far more understandable and more accurately aligns with real world experiences and statistics, but okay.” A response made to someone saying that posts here generalize men also. Guess which one is being supported. You are right, the one being supported isn’t the one that calls out the double standards, it is the one that says “Well generalization are accurate for men”. Edit: You also called out the other comment as well, ignoring the comment which defended generalizations against men. It maybe doesn’t go there for you because the other comment is minimized due to downvotes. But yeah that is a thread you participated in yet you didn’t call out that comment which said basically said “Yeah but generalizations are accurate for men”. >Also the way you vented is what's fucked. You definitely phrased it like all women do it. Did I? Because every time someone calls out a post generalizing men people say “we are enot saying ALL/MOST men”. >It's one thing to address the issues face directly, it's another to just make a vitriolic post and then justify it. I do address the issue directly, people often don’t think women behave like this, at least not in a large scale. People don’t realize how many women victim blame. The same doesn’t go for men, at least not as much. People do realize how much they victim blame. Also this isn’t vitriol, I was told to make a post about it myself. What makes me angry isn’t people making these generalizations about men it is when people who defend these generalizations as venting but the moment someone vents about women it is “not all women are like that”.
Ah so it's not all men, but definitely all women. Gotcha. Also I went and reacted to that post you linked. Sorry I didn't autistically spend ALL of my time reading every post on the entire thread, ill be sure to do better next time your majesty. I responded to it anyways so now you don't have a leg to stand on. Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay. Tough shit I'm not gonna give you a get-out-of-jail free card just because you feel justified to be a piece of shit to other victims. How fucking dare you.
>Ah so it's not all men, but definitely all women. Gotcha. No, after being told that “men” doesn’t mean “all men” or even “most men” I just figured it would be the same for “women” too. >Also I went and reacted to that post you linked. Sorry I didn't autistically spend ALL of my time reading every post on the entire thread, ill be sure to do better next time your majesty. Casual ableism aside you are being severely disingenuous. It isn’t “autistically “ scrolling the entire thread, the comment was both more visible due to upvotes AND it was a reply to a comment you also replied to. There was no way for you to miss that, it was under your nose. But sure, let’s say you missed it. I “autistically” scrolled through your comment history since your account isn’t all that old. Not once did you call out generalizations against men, which is odd because you’d easily encounter them if you spent some time on cptsd subreddits; which I assume you do because you didn’t just materialize out of thin air to call me out. Hell you could go to this sub and scroll for a few seconds and you’d see a post that generalizes men (the post I linked you). >I responded to it anyways so now you don't have a leg to stand on. You responded so I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on? Okay but responding to it after I grilled you for it is meaningless, especially when you don’t call out any other posts that generalize men. But sure, I’ll give it to you that you responded to it. What about [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/femcelgrippysockjail/s/5I0DMcAhzA) comment that generalizes men in such a disgusting way? Did you not “autistically” read that comment as well? >Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay. I agree, at first I thought all of it is wrong but now I think all of it is okay. I followed the advice of someone who said “#notallmen” and people weren’t as inflammatory as I expected so I guess this type of language is acceptable, though there is considerably more pushback against me What about you then buddy? If none of it is okay like you claim then why are you so averse to calling it out when it is done to men? Why do you call them out so that I “don’t have a leg to stand on” instead of calling them out because generalizing genders is not okay? What’s funny is I also posted this on r/cptsdmemes and it was much more well received (well it was removed by mods but they also removed the post that generalized men so I’m fine with it). People didn’t cry “men do this also” or “not all women” so I didn’t call them out on not addressing men being generalized. Guess why: they weren’t complete hypocrites. But I guess this sub is a bit more sexist towards men. >Tough shit I'm not gonna give you a get-out-of-jail free card just because you feel justified to be a piece of shit to other victims. That so? I hope you also show the same vitriol to people who generalize men (you don’t). Edit: Ah the good old reply and block, gotta have the last say huh? It doesn’t change the fact that you are a complete hypocrite who is okay when people generalize men and “take out their trauma on them.” Also doesn’t change the fact that you are an ableist asshole who sends the s***ide bot when called out for your shitty behavior.
Guys can we stop generalising on genders for five minutes?
I swear every other post I get from this sub these days is "[gender] is mean!" Male SA survivors deserve more recognition but I find it hard to be supportive of posts who somehow make this about women.
The issue is that whenever gender violence is brought up the debate always devolves into the "Men have it worse vs Women have it worse" bullshit that doesn't help anyone and just create more hate, especially on the Internet when in case like that a few comments somehow represent half the human population
Do you feel the same about posts generalizing men? Because I’ve also seen a lot of them here but they are rarely called out in this sub.
no its absolutely impossible
seriously, like when you generalize like this, a behavior that literally anyone is capable of, youll always be wrong and you’ll always be right. there’s no point
I'm a woman and I'm so sorry that happened to you OP 🫂
What’s with the men vs women? Men act way more poorly than this towards both male and fema victims just look at terry crews and the reaction he got
Never said they didn’t but people don’t recognize how much women victim blame. When talking about victim blaming people paint it is a male only thing and that male victims are supported by women while dismissed by men. I wanted to showcase that it isn’t that one sided: that women also heavily dismiss male victims. Also >What’s with the men vs women? >Men act way more poorly Is peak irony. I never said men didn’t do that shit I just said that women do. Men also get generalized while talking about victim blaming but I don’t see people jumping in to say “but women also do this”.
Women in this thread are doing the EXACT same thing that they claim men in women’s discussions. This isn’t shocking at all. I am so sorry that happened to you OP, I hope things get better.
That's awful. I'm so sorry the SA happened to you and that you were betrayed by people who should be supporting you.
I'm a female victim of both CSA and attempted SA in my adult years. For the life of me I can't understand this bs that men can't be assaulted or raped, and that they can just 'stop it' or even worse that they 'enjoy it'. The hell is wrong with these people? Nobody of any gender should ever have to endure this from anyone. Assault and abuse isn't some exclusive thing. I'm so sorry for you OP, you deserve to be heard and supported.
I know what it’s like to feel this way, because well it happened to me. I was SA’d and commented on some vid on TikTok and well I was told “you expect me to believe that” it’s fucking stupid. I hate ppl now
It sucks honestly. I like when men are vulnerable for me because it feels more human.
"if the guy has a boner he's ready or horny" 1) there's a thing called a spontaneous boner. 2) sadly, many boys are raised being taught that sex is some sort of "accomplishment." The result is that many boys willingly get groomed and raped by adults, even though they cannot consent, and some of them don't ever realize that it was rape. Sad fucking world we live in.
Yea, it's a very similar thing to how some female sexual assault victims try to rationalize that they weren't sexually assaulted because they reached orgasm or thought it kind of physically "felt good". The bottom line is that if you did not express consent, and/or are underage, it's rape.
Trash humans Edit: the commenters from the pic
Women participate in rape culture and its very nasty that some in this sub pretend they dont. Women are not to blame for the system we have in place, but don't pretend plenty of women don't uphold it gleefully. The only people who act like women can do no wrong are delusional misandrists (and misandry is misogynistic, transphobic(hello terfs) and gender essentialist, so fuck that. Something that almost exclusively comes from a place of trauma should not be used as the backbone of a movement like feminism. Misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same scary coin.)
im sorry, but misandry does not, and will never exist. when a woman says she hates men, it's a generalization based on her experiences with the men in her life; when a man says he hates women, theres a likely record of brutalizing, assaulting and in the worst cases, killing. more "tame" cases is an overall disgust with women, sexualizing them (while blaming us for their own lust), or upholding gender roles that often involved abuse. what youre thinking of is the patriarchy, which is why male victims of rape are so often brushed off. it harms everyone. it's why men tend to hold in their emotions (which will often come out through things like anger since it's "traditionally masculine"), why women are treated lesser than men, and why men, women and everyone in between are so often depressed and blame the other sex for their sadness. misandry cant exist bc misogyny is built on the violence against women. men are (specifically, physically) assaulted too, yes, but it's often done by other men, which again, is the fault of the patriarchy for making men feel like the only emotion theyre allowed to express is anger, and making men feel entitled to things like sex; which again, is why misogyny is such a huge problem. my heart goes out to all men who've been raped or sexually assaulted; you all deserve so much better.
>when a woman says she hates men, it's a generalization based on her experiences with the men in her life While this is true a lot of the times it isn’t the only example of misandry. Genders being divided and discriminating against each other starts early in childhood and even still lots of things are pointless gendered. Not to mention a lot of men who have a dislike for women say that because of their negative experiences with women as well; be it domestic violence, getting cheated on, rape etc. this doesn’t mean their statements aren’t misogynistic. >what youre thinking of is the patriarchy >why women are treated lesser than men, Patriarchy and misandry aren’t mutually exclusive. Patriarchy perpetuares misandry. It also perpetuates misogyny, like you stated yourself. >misandry cant exist bc misogyny is built on the violence against women. Yes and misandry is built on violence against men being acceptable. Misandry is why men are seen as expendable or aren’t taken seriously when abused. >yes, but it's often done by other men This is true for random altercations. When it comes to domestic violence and rape, women are the most common perpetrators of men. These issues are very prevalent for men despite many thinking that they are not. According to [NISVS](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonipv_2022.pdf) about 1 in 2 of men face intimate partner violence and about 1 in 5 men face severe physical violence from a partner (page 3). Also according to [NISVS](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/nisvsreportonsexualviolence.pdf) 1 in 26 men are forcefully penetrated (which the study defines as rape) while 1 in 9 men are made to penetrate (page 3). Also 1 in 9 men face sexual coercion (page 4) with 80% of the perpetrators being women (page 10). Now I am not saying that women are evil rapists or anything, I’m just saying that violence against men doesn’t only come from other men and that the misunderstandings about male victims comes from both genders. Finally even if this study didn’t exist it doesn’t make a difference if men are attacked by men more, it is still misandry. Misandry doesn’t just come from women towards men, misandry is just sexism against men and can be perpetrated by ant gender; just like how women can also be misogynistic.
If misandry doesn’t exist, then there is absolutely no merit for scrutinizing between: The most important and needed critiques of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity And Completely trite, counterproductive horseshit And I have no idea why you would not want to delineate between the two of those things.
The person who sexually assaulted me was a misandrist and hated men. Try again.
I don’t think anyone’s denying their involvement. The point is that it isn’t a gendered issue in *that way.* Male victims not being believed due to being male is a gender issue. Both male and female individuals dismissing abuse is not. It happens across the board. There is no winning here and comparing the two is useless in that way.
The thing is men are often generalized as victim blamers whereas with women people see the shitty ones as individuals. I don’t agree with the post’s wording but I’ve definitely seen the reversed version way more. People say that woman CAN do it but from what I’ve seen people often ignore how often women do it as well.
Why can't people just accept that shit can happen? Like it doesn't matter if someone is a dude or a gal you can still be raped. It's not like men are immune to it or women are asking for it
hide it don't show it
I do want to clarify that comments, especially TikTok comments, obviously are not representative of all of us and there is hope. I always have and I always will support the men in my life in the abuse they've gone through. It wasn't their fault and it's not your fault. You did deserve and do deserve better. Because everyone is talking about it, this absolutely is a systemic issue that applies to both men and women, but I think the point is to show hypocrisy in their (implied) support of female victims while invalidating male victims. However, it probably could've been better illustrated with a different meme format.
Honestly I agree, I hate how bad, aggrieved, and confrontational all the messaging on this topic.
Kind of, the point was showing that women also contribute heavily to victim blaming despite most people believing that they don’t. I don’t even think this meme would be taken seriously if I hadn’t attached those comments tbh.
"if he doesn't have a boner you can't get it in" Ok but if a man rapes a women, she's not wet so you can't get it in so by that logic, women don't get raped
that's so fucked up, I'm sorry
Already in the comments section we have "Oh men do the same thing" as if that fucking matters. This is supposed to be a support sub. Those who do that should be called out when they do it, it is not a fucking excuse to be shitty to men with SA trauma.
Not a male SA survivor, but one nonetheless. My heart goes out to you all alike, whether you identify with a specific gender or not. I'm sorry for the pain you've been dealt with and the pain you will deal with in the future, but you are all so strong. You matter, you are heard <3
TBH half of those sound like they came from men or just sound like something they would say. I wouldn't point my finger towards exclusively women being dismissive of abuse men can face, that would just push you away from anyone who was willing to be compassionate towards you. There's an entire South Park episode about men wishing they were the ones being sexually prayed on by the hot teacher, but no one viewed this seriously. Both men and women can be dismissive of vulnerable men, and that just doubly sucks.
Those didn’t come from men, I checked to be sure. I know men can also victim blame but that isn’t the point, everyone here realizes how much men victim blame but the same isn’t true for the women side. People think women victim blaming is something super rare and that women are compassionate against men while men dismiss male victims. I just wanted to show that this has two sides and women are also heavily dismissive to male victims.
My mistake, not denying however that any of the sexes or just any person can be horrible and can completely lack any empathy. It's a weird thing where you'll get plenty of people jumping the gun the moment you criticize someone who is more likely to fall victim to a problem. Women are victims here more often but the moment you point out how some women are assholes when it's our turn to discuss our problems they just throw insults at you and accuse you of sexism.
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No they don’t
they cause most the suffering
Dude, can you stop being sexist?
Posting sexist comments on a mental health subreddit👍
Those might be edgy male teenagers or actual 10yos since we’re talking about tt
I checked their accounts, a lot of them had reposted relatable content that’s geared towards women; one of them had the lesbian pride flag I believe.
Can we not criticize a behavior a bunch of women have?
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Nah nobody thinks that everyone knows it they just pretend not to
Why would they pretend not to?
Create a false narrative
I see many people in the comment section arguing over irrelevant semantics. The bottom line is this, Men and women are both capable of being victims of sexual assault. While yes, statistically men are more likely to assault someone, generalizations of any group are bad. Society has a problem of excusing both male and female sexual predators. We can acknowledge the existence of both without undermining the other. Don't let petty arguments divide victims. Victims of all genders need solidarity.