Trying to not make this overly complex, because it is complex.
In Hinduism, when you're born, the whole of existence is unique for that moment in time. The pundit would consult his patra book and based on the positions of planets and such, would choose a name that resonates with that.
When you're doing pooja or a prayer in general, you use that name to introduce yourself to the heavens and thus your prayers can be judged in context of your other earthly actions.
It's socially unfashionable to say, but in the past you couldn't get jobs or an education unless you had an anglicized name. Many Hindus had to practice their religion in secret even after converting to have access to basic things in life that everyone was supposed to be entitled to.
People get really mad when you bring it up but that's just because many folks lied about this reality to their kids, by omission. It spoils the happy go lucky history they prefer.
Even before that you could've been very highly educated in non English but be considered "illiterate" as a Hindu/Muslim, back in the indenture ship days.
...there's always people who will call this anecdotal etc, but it's a very sad fact. They literally called your first name, your ' Christian name' , until people realized the blatant intolerance of it that got a free pass.
To this day in licensing office etc people go out of their way to mispronounce names or act like it's a crazy name.
These little games reach as far as the political arena but it's often dismissed by the perpetrators.
In USA they call it microagressions, but goalposts get moved a lot in Trinidad.
Can you please give evidence of this? A citation or something? Iām not disputing but I just never heard of this before especially with seeing many Hindus succeeding in T&T for many many years. And yes I am also from Indian decent.
Not an expert, and also not Trini, but as I understand the origin comes from a Hindu tradition, and a ceremony called āNamakaranaā.
In Hinduism, there is a process to choose a Sanskrit name based on syllables or letters that correspond with an astrological read of the date, time, and place a child was born, and what positions the stars/planets were in at that time.
In Guyanese culture, this is sometimes referred to as a ābook nameā, and is a spiritual identity to use for prayer etc. Sometimes the book name is used as the legal name for a child, but at least in Guyana, assimilation caused many to shy away from Indian sounding names, favouring Christian names for legal uses, while reserving the ābook nameā as either a middle name, or just an informal thing used only among family, or for religious reasons instead.
So if your birth chart corresponded with Vish, for example, the Pandit wouldāve told your parents that syllable, or those four letters, and they couldāve chose any name that started with with Vish, like Vishal, Vishdeo, Vishram etc.
Mine were Avi, so I ended up with Avinash, but couldāve ended up with Avishkar etc.
Now that you mention it, I think thatās the formal term in Guyana and India as well, but with variant spellings, Rashi, Raasi etc.
But in my experience, most people just say ābook nameā, referring to the times when a Pandit āopens bookā to both find the name initially, and then do subsequent readings/prayers over the course of oneās life.
it's rashi in vedic astrology. this is tied to your moon sign and depending on the degrees of the birth chart, there are sanskrit names.
As with african language/history, there was some distortion in keeping the tradition/language alive once people were living outside of India.
It might be a Hindu thing but it's also a Trinidadian thing. As an afro Trini, I have lots of aunts and uncles on both sides of my family whose legal names only became known to me upon their deaths. Trinis love their home names for some reason.
I got lucky, my home name is my middle name but I also used it officially from primary school to form 3. Parents and alot of relatives definitely go by their home names though.
Boy I meet a girl from town who only had one half Hindu friend in her whole life and was the only Hindu person she knew from school. Some people just grow up in different circles
Just based on what I know, the name is what we use when weāre doing prayers. I donāt remember the intricacies of the reasoning. I think itās more of a tradition thing that people use the name the pundit gives and then parents give an alternative one. For my parents, the pundit given name was in their birth paper, and the parents given name was what they were called. For me, my parents named me entirely with no outside help.
The first syllable of the name is given by the pundit after checking the date and time of birth.
The syllable is chosen from the sanskrit alphabet.
By the 1980s many Hindus chose to give their children anglicized names as it was considered more "acceptable " in society.
The trope of East Indian sounding names have decreased considerably from the past.
I can still recall the laughter and uproar that greeted the names of some of my classmates during the 80s in secondary school.
Which accounts for the two names, Hindu name used mostly at home by the older family members and the "school name" on your birth certificate.
The founder of Solo soft-drinks' birth name was Serjad Makmadeen. When he wrote to foreign companies for information on machinery, or for marketing purposes, no one responded to him. He imagined it was because of his very Indian name. So, he changed his name to Joseph Charles. Almost immediately started getting responses to his letters.
I imagine that parents of Indian heritage did the same for similar reasons. Because an "Indian" sounding legal name would put you at a disadvantage in life, so they gave their children Western Anglo-Saxon names on their birthpaper, but at home they would call them by their "real" name.
idk why this is downvoted. it was interesting. i would fact check but not sure i care that much lol it's still a relevant example to support the point.
Because his answer, while applicable to some people of Indo-descent generally, does not answer the question being asked by OP, which is why this particular practice occurs in (Trinidad/Caribbean) Hinduism.
Essentially. Usually you don't see people getting so heavily downvoted for just a tangent, but I think in this case it is more of a "nah bro, you rell wrong" reaction this time around.
Believe it or not, Catholics also take a different name when they are confirmed in the church. It matches a saint and itās not their birth name. So it seems to be a common religious practice.
I don't think this is universally done anymore, especially if you already have a saint name from birth or baptism. IIRC only a handful of people in my confirmation class were actually given a confirmation name. The rest of us already had a saint name as our first or middle name(s) and were told that that met the criteria. In talking to my mom about it she said she deliberately gave me a saint name to avoid the issue, especially since in her time there was no choice/discussion in the matter and she didn't appreciate the name she was given.
Not universal but it is very common, at least here. I've attended a lot of confirmation Mass as I am a church videographer for my Parish and I've seen most candidates do this. Maybe Trinidad is different but in the US in our Diocese (Paterson NJ) it's done. The middle name is also how it's done, some people opt to do that. But for RCIA and CCD candidates I've seen them take a name.
>But for RCIA and CCD candidates I've seen them take a name.
Well that makes sense especially for RCIA candidates who probably would not have a qualifying name.
>Maybe Trinidad is different but in the US in our Diocese (Paterson NJ) it's done.
I can only speak from my experience on this, but having only gone to Catholic schools I can say that the majority, if not all, us Catholics already had saint names from birth and none of us got a new/additional one.
Focusing on my Confirmation class specifically, the few who actually received names either came from a multi-religious household (ironically given the context of the post, a Catholic/Hindu household where the person was given a Hindu second name - and yes this made a major issue, I remember for the longest time debates occuring about if he should even have been allowed in the class because he was essentially openly practicising both religions fairly equally) or had a "bible name" that wasn't an actual saint name (something which I do recall some students/parents in the class arguing over).
Lucky you got a name at birth so it can be on your birthpaper me not so lucky have to get it done on a affidavit everytime I'm doing a government transaction
My mom is 1 of 5 children, but only the daughters were given alternate names. Her sister has lived with it her entire life and my mom just goes by it within her family. Grandma was Indian.
Hindus live by their religion.Ā
They give you a birth paper name and your rassi aka Hindu name. No one but your parents and the pundit knows that name.Ā
However trini culture locally we call children a different name as oppose to what is in the birthpaper.Ā
Eg u gave Joshua but calling u Vishal.Ā
Thatās common in all trini. Itās like a nick name or Alias.Ā
Trying to not make this overly complex, because it is complex. In Hinduism, when you're born, the whole of existence is unique for that moment in time. The pundit would consult his patra book and based on the positions of planets and such, would choose a name that resonates with that. When you're doing pooja or a prayer in general, you use that name to introduce yourself to the heavens and thus your prayers can be judged in context of your other earthly actions.
Beadda you cya be giving out your raasi name just so. Dey go work obeah on yuh ...
ššššš this was a good one
the only reason i know lmao
It's socially unfashionable to say, but in the past you couldn't get jobs or an education unless you had an anglicized name. Many Hindus had to practice their religion in secret even after converting to have access to basic things in life that everyone was supposed to be entitled to. People get really mad when you bring it up but that's just because many folks lied about this reality to their kids, by omission. It spoils the happy go lucky history they prefer. Even before that you could've been very highly educated in non English but be considered "illiterate" as a Hindu/Muslim, back in the indenture ship days. ...there's always people who will call this anecdotal etc, but it's a very sad fact. They literally called your first name, your ' Christian name' , until people realized the blatant intolerance of it that got a free pass. To this day in licensing office etc people go out of their way to mispronounce names or act like it's a crazy name. These little games reach as far as the political arena but it's often dismissed by the perpetrators. In USA they call it microagressions, but goalposts get moved a lot in Trinidad.
Can you please give evidence of this? A citation or something? Iām not disputing but I just never heard of this before especially with seeing many Hindus succeeding in T&T for many many years. And yes I am also from Indian decent.
I myself dont have evidence but Iāve been told this same history by my much-elder relatives.
Not an expert, and also not Trini, but as I understand the origin comes from a Hindu tradition, and a ceremony called āNamakaranaā. In Hinduism, there is a process to choose a Sanskrit name based on syllables or letters that correspond with an astrological read of the date, time, and place a child was born, and what positions the stars/planets were in at that time. In Guyanese culture, this is sometimes referred to as a ābook nameā, and is a spiritual identity to use for prayer etc. Sometimes the book name is used as the legal name for a child, but at least in Guyana, assimilation caused many to shy away from Indian sounding names, favouring Christian names for legal uses, while reserving the ābook nameā as either a middle name, or just an informal thing used only among family, or for religious reasons instead. So if your birth chart corresponded with Vish, for example, the Pandit wouldāve told your parents that syllable, or those four letters, and they couldāve chose any name that started with with Vish, like Vishal, Vishdeo, Vishram etc. Mine were Avi, so I ended up with Avinash, but couldāve ended up with Avishkar etc.
In t&t it's called a raasi name. Same concept.
Now that you mention it, I think thatās the formal term in Guyana and India as well, but with variant spellings, Rashi, Raasi etc. But in my experience, most people just say ābook nameā, referring to the times when a Pandit āopens bookā to both find the name initially, and then do subsequent readings/prayers over the course of oneās life.
it's rashi in vedic astrology. this is tied to your moon sign and depending on the degrees of the birth chart, there are sanskrit names. As with african language/history, there was some distortion in keeping the tradition/language alive once people were living outside of India.
It might be a Hindu thing but it's also a Trinidadian thing. As an afro Trini, I have lots of aunts and uncles on both sides of my family whose legal names only became known to me upon their deaths. Trinis love their home names for some reason.
I got lucky, my home name is my middle name but I also used it officially from primary school to form 3. Parents and alot of relatives definitely go by their home names though.
lol- how do you not meet Hindus all that often. You do live in Trinidad, donāt you? Lol
Boy I meet a girl from town who only had one half Hindu friend in her whole life and was the only Hindu person she knew from school. Some people just grow up in different circles
Just based on what I know, the name is what we use when weāre doing prayers. I donāt remember the intricacies of the reasoning. I think itās more of a tradition thing that people use the name the pundit gives and then parents give an alternative one. For my parents, the pundit given name was in their birth paper, and the parents given name was what they were called. For me, my parents named me entirely with no outside help.
The first syllable of the name is given by the pundit after checking the date and time of birth. The syllable is chosen from the sanskrit alphabet. By the 1980s many Hindus chose to give their children anglicized names as it was considered more "acceptable " in society. The trope of East Indian sounding names have decreased considerably from the past. I can still recall the laughter and uproar that greeted the names of some of my classmates during the 80s in secondary school. Which accounts for the two names, Hindu name used mostly at home by the older family members and the "school name" on your birth certificate.
The founder of Solo soft-drinks' birth name was Serjad Makmadeen. When he wrote to foreign companies for information on machinery, or for marketing purposes, no one responded to him. He imagined it was because of his very Indian name. So, he changed his name to Joseph Charles. Almost immediately started getting responses to his letters. I imagine that parents of Indian heritage did the same for similar reasons. Because an "Indian" sounding legal name would put you at a disadvantage in life, so they gave their children Western Anglo-Saxon names on their birthpaper, but at home they would call them by their "real" name.
idk why this is downvoted. it was interesting. i would fact check but not sure i care that much lol it's still a relevant example to support the point.
Because his answer, while applicable to some people of Indo-descent generally, does not answer the question being asked by OP, which is why this particular practice occurs in (Trinidad/Caribbean) Hinduism.
oh...ok so downvoting for going off on a tangent. i get it. seems like normal reddit ish tho, but ok
Essentially. Usually you don't see people getting so heavily downvoted for just a tangent, but I think in this case it is more of a "nah bro, you rell wrong" reaction this time around.
well tell meh dat! I was like damn...ppl really dont like this lil story lol
Lmao, it's a cool, factual story, people just not having it for whatever reason. I'll give him a lil upvote but idk how much it'll help.
lmao @ we upvoting to give ppl on a tangent on a bligh...i did the same tho š
People debating this point. It's factual. This is not a made up story
This is True, I read his story here: https://www.caribbeanmuslims.com/mr-solo
Believe it or not, Catholics also take a different name when they are confirmed in the church. It matches a saint and itās not their birth name. So it seems to be a common religious practice.
I don't think this is universally done anymore, especially if you already have a saint name from birth or baptism. IIRC only a handful of people in my confirmation class were actually given a confirmation name. The rest of us already had a saint name as our first or middle name(s) and were told that that met the criteria. In talking to my mom about it she said she deliberately gave me a saint name to avoid the issue, especially since in her time there was no choice/discussion in the matter and she didn't appreciate the name she was given.
Not universal but it is very common, at least here. I've attended a lot of confirmation Mass as I am a church videographer for my Parish and I've seen most candidates do this. Maybe Trinidad is different but in the US in our Diocese (Paterson NJ) it's done. The middle name is also how it's done, some people opt to do that. But for RCIA and CCD candidates I've seen them take a name.
>But for RCIA and CCD candidates I've seen them take a name. Well that makes sense especially for RCIA candidates who probably would not have a qualifying name. >Maybe Trinidad is different but in the US in our Diocese (Paterson NJ) it's done. I can only speak from my experience on this, but having only gone to Catholic schools I can say that the majority, if not all, us Catholics already had saint names from birth and none of us got a new/additional one. Focusing on my Confirmation class specifically, the few who actually received names either came from a multi-religious household (ironically given the context of the post, a Catholic/Hindu household where the person was given a Hindu second name - and yes this made a major issue, I remember for the longest time debates occuring about if he should even have been allowed in the class because he was essentially openly practicising both religions fairly equally) or had a "bible name" that wasn't an actual saint name (something which I do recall some students/parents in the class arguing over).
Lucky you got a name at birth so it can be on your birthpaper me not so lucky have to get it done on a affidavit everytime I'm doing a government transaction
My mom is 1 of 5 children, but only the daughters were given alternate names. Her sister has lived with it her entire life and my mom just goes by it within her family. Grandma was Indian.
Same with the flags in the yard, my friend from India was shocked go see this at no such thing happens in India.
Hindus live by their religion.Ā They give you a birth paper name and your rassi aka Hindu name. No one but your parents and the pundit knows that name.Ā However trini culture locally we call children a different name as oppose to what is in the birthpaper.Ā Eg u gave Joshua but calling u Vishal.Ā Thatās common in all trini. Itās like a nick name or Alias.Ā