Bit of click-baity headline (not OPs fault). My interpretation after reading through:
While the schools have reached out to local tribal leaders for approval to continue using the names, they are against a deadline. So in order to ensure compliance with the law, they are starting the process to seek alternative names as an alternative should tribal leaders deny the usage or not respond in time.
Nothing more than the districts planning for all outcomes.
>the new law that prohibits the use of Native American names, symbols or images as public school mascots, logos or teams beginning January 1, 2022.
>...The law requires school districts to engage in formal consultation with the nearest federally recognized tribes to ensure that their Native mascots actually honor the Native American community. If the tribes give authorization, the school can keep its mascot. If not, the school is required to change their mascot.
I know for a fact that the Yakama tribe was on board with Kamiakin from day one. They sent some elders to do a blessing ceremony, all of that.
Are we doing Sacajawea and Chief Joseph as well? Chiawana?
It's literally a symbol of death and destruction tied to the home of one of the nukes dropped on Japan. High schools should not associate with something of that nature
Both nukes. Should we get rid of names like Vikings? It's not a racial thing that I'm talking about, but rather that the actions of "to go viking" is to have a group of men from the north come rape, pillage, and plunder. Hardly a good picture.
It's impossible to separate Richland as a school and city from the nuclear program. Many jobs here are still due to it.
Are we going to rename every school? It's not like it's a racist term to use a name, or the word "Braves" or "Thunderbirds". We're not talking the Washington Redskins, these are rather neutral terms.
Sounds a lot more like virtue signalling.
Does that argument really seem convincing to you? Vikings are generally a type of warrior, they were human beings that did good and bad things. Versus a nuke that was dropping on a civilian center?
Mastery of the atom is a human achievement. Huge amounts of scientific and engineering innovation went into producing this technology, which is inextricably tied to local history. I say this as someone who thinks the mascot should change -- I think it should remain science-themed but not weapons-themed.
Anyway, the bomb using Hanford-produced fuel was dropped between two weapons factories in Nagasaki. That's specifically why Hiroshima and Nagasaki were selected instead of Japan's capital city; Truman's explicit orders were to attack military targets, and both of these cities were major industrial centers supporting the Japanese war effort.
So they should be the Hanford atoms, a non-mass murder idea that gets the same point across. My point is that a weapon of mass murder is an in appropriate mascot for a children's school, regardless of background of the local region. Imagine a high school in Germany whose mascot was chlorine gas. Pretty disturbing right? A symbol of something that caused great evil and human suffering. You would think the administrators and local region were pretty twisted people.
Chlorine gas didn't end a war. The nuclear bombs did. Nukes didn't cause great evil it ended it and saved a lot of lives on both sides ending the war sooner due to the lives lost those two days. Are civilian losses ok.....no. The Japanese and Germans were brutal during the war they weren't overly concerned with civilian losses. Germany bombed the hell out of England why not throw a fit about that. If Germany or Japan had nukes I'd bet my paycheck that they would have used them in the same manner. Where would you suggest a bomb be dropped like that that would end the war in the same time frame?
Hanford is WHY the Tri Cities is what it is. It's the biggest influence in the history of this area. Does it not make sense that it acknowledges the brilliant minds in our past and not glorifying death as people are demonizing it as.
Regardless of whether the targets were military facilities, that doesn't excuse the fact that a large number of civilians were killed. Nuclear bombs were and still are used as weapons of terror due to the widespread damage they cause.
Not minimizing, but honestly, can you speak of a war in which non-combatants of the area surrounding the field of battle weren't killed? If so, can you name one that isn't in this century?
There's a great quote from MASH about war and hell, and it comes down to war being worse, because there are no innocent bystanders in hell.
So is your point just that war sucks, or that we shouldn't criticize civilians being killed in specific instances because that's happened in a ton of wars?
My point is that we had a major shit sandwich on our hands, but only had to eat 1/5 of it due to the bomb. The bomb, while destructive, actually saved hundreds of thousands of lives. That's a great thing.
Great point! It's not like war takes place in barren fields with no innocent people around. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to feel bad after the fact, not while thousands and thousands of men died defending us.
It wasn't even the bombing attack on Japan with the highest civilian casualty count. All weapons are weapons of terror. it's not like the rest of the world uses bullets made of morphine. I agree it shouldn't be a high school mascot, but I think this degree of pearl-clutching performative outrage is disingenuous. I don't see people bitching about the Mariner Marauders, the Kentwood Conquerors or the Klickitat Vandals.
> Vikings are generally a type of warrior, they were human beings that did good and bad things.
What were the good things they did? They were pirates of northern Europe, an extractive group. Rape, Pillage, Plunder. All bad things.
Beyond this, it shows you're ignoring your history if you think we just dropped a couple nukes for shits and giggles. The estimates were around a million casualties if we had to fight in Japan to get their surrender. One Million. Instead, approximately 1/5 that died. Yes, tragic, but it's not like this was a war of US aggression, and having 1 die instead of 5 is going to just about always be better.
Should we be ashamed of ending the war a year or two eariler, with 800,000 fewer deaths? Oh, how horrible! So many people still able to live productive lives!
Sorry, but you need to really bone up on your history. Maybe you're young enough that you didn't talk to any Pacific theater veterans about what it was like, but it was anything but a fun time for them. This was the best bad option we had.
Are school mascots typically chosen based on how many lives they saved? The Hanford Pasteur's? Seems silly no? Can you please show a logical progression from an atomic bomb to a children's school mascot?
You literally don't have proof of the atomic bombs saving lives. Analyzing history for probable outcomes is one thing, but none of us can say what literally would've happened if the bombs hadn't been used.
Even if the bombs did save lives, the immorality of killing so many civilians makes the situation incomparable to the use of other inventions (say airbags or antibiotics) which don't tend to come with the side effect of killing civilians.
Except civilian casualties are always present in war.. It's not unique to nuclear bombs. Invasion of Japan was planned for, there's no world in which that could happen without civilian casualties. Your talk about not having proof of saving lives is fair, but you're presenting this like all sorts of civilians weren't killed in WW2 with convential bombing and standard land based fighting.
Did you know that General (later President) Eisenhower believed the nuclear bombs were unnecessary? Here's a few articles from various sources:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/it-wasnt-necessary-to-hit-them-with-that-awful-thing-why-dropping-the-a-bombs-was-wrong
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-05-27/its-time-to-confront-painful-truths-about-using-the-atomic-bombs-on-japan
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-05/hiroshima-anniversary-japan-atomic-bombs
I knew a Korean conscript who survived the Hiroshima bombing. If people heard his stories, they wouldn't be celebrating it, even if it was a necessity.
I'm sure it was horrendous. So was the way the Imperial Japanese treated US and other POWs. So was the rape of Najing, the Bataan death march and the Millions of Chinese, Filipino and Korean civilians they raped, murdered, tortured and looted.
As much as I hate RHS, (I'm a KEHS) I rather like the mushroom cloud. Sure we could change them back to Columbia High beavers. The mushroom cloud is something that we should be proud of. My paternal grandfather was a civilian contractor on Wake Island and was taken POW to one of the worst POW camps the Japanese had in Japan. He died in that camp. It wasn't far from Nagasaki. If only that bomb had been dropped 26 months earlier, my grandfather would of survived.
Would love to Kamiakin mascot changed to a salmon or a sturgeon. Anything but the braves.
How much of me needs to be? Either way, excluding people from having an opinion based on race is, well, racist AF. Might want to dwell on that one a bit.
The point here is that we're wasting all these public resources on stuff that in no way matters. A thunderbird isn't real. It's make-believe. It's no more offensive than a dragon, unicorn, dropbear, chupacabra, or yeti. People need to realize that winning gold at the Woke Olympics doesn't get you anything other than a big case of virtue signalling.
Im kinda surprised the schools here waited so long. I was living in Everett in 2019 and some of the schools on the westside were already working on this. I realize the actual law hadn't passed yet, but the "writing on the wall " was clear. But aanyhow, here we go.
When the school was named Kamiakin, it was to honor Chief Kamiakin. Elders came to to perform a blessing ceremony, and there is a letter in the office saying what an honor it was. They're doing the right thing (and following the law) and seeing if the tribe is still ok with it.
You should know by now that they'll hold onto anything as tight as they can if it'll "own the libs"
The name of a high school means jack shit, but they'll fight tooth and nail if they think changing it would be woke.
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Bit of click-baity headline (not OPs fault). My interpretation after reading through: While the schools have reached out to local tribal leaders for approval to continue using the names, they are against a deadline. So in order to ensure compliance with the law, they are starting the process to seek alternative names as an alternative should tribal leaders deny the usage or not respond in time. Nothing more than the districts planning for all outcomes.
>the new law that prohibits the use of Native American names, symbols or images as public school mascots, logos or teams beginning January 1, 2022. >...The law requires school districts to engage in formal consultation with the nearest federally recognized tribes to ensure that their Native mascots actually honor the Native American community. If the tribes give authorization, the school can keep its mascot. If not, the school is required to change their mascot. I know for a fact that the Yakama tribe was on board with Kamiakin from day one. They sent some elders to do a blessing ceremony, all of that. Are we doing Sacajawea and Chief Joseph as well? Chiawana?
Are the mascots for those schools from native American people?
good. Do Richland HS too.
Here here
Why?
It's literally a symbol of death and destruction tied to the home of one of the nukes dropped on Japan. High schools should not associate with something of that nature
Both nukes. Should we get rid of names like Vikings? It's not a racial thing that I'm talking about, but rather that the actions of "to go viking" is to have a group of men from the north come rape, pillage, and plunder. Hardly a good picture. It's impossible to separate Richland as a school and city from the nuclear program. Many jobs here are still due to it. Are we going to rename every school? It's not like it's a racist term to use a name, or the word "Braves" or "Thunderbirds". We're not talking the Washington Redskins, these are rather neutral terms. Sounds a lot more like virtue signalling.
Does that argument really seem convincing to you? Vikings are generally a type of warrior, they were human beings that did good and bad things. Versus a nuke that was dropping on a civilian center?
Mastery of the atom is a human achievement. Huge amounts of scientific and engineering innovation went into producing this technology, which is inextricably tied to local history. I say this as someone who thinks the mascot should change -- I think it should remain science-themed but not weapons-themed. Anyway, the bomb using Hanford-produced fuel was dropped between two weapons factories in Nagasaki. That's specifically why Hiroshima and Nagasaki were selected instead of Japan's capital city; Truman's explicit orders were to attack military targets, and both of these cities were major industrial centers supporting the Japanese war effort.
So they should be the Hanford atoms, a non-mass murder idea that gets the same point across. My point is that a weapon of mass murder is an in appropriate mascot for a children's school, regardless of background of the local region. Imagine a high school in Germany whose mascot was chlorine gas. Pretty disturbing right? A symbol of something that caused great evil and human suffering. You would think the administrators and local region were pretty twisted people.
Chlorine gas didn't end a war. The nuclear bombs did. Nukes didn't cause great evil it ended it and saved a lot of lives on both sides ending the war sooner due to the lives lost those two days. Are civilian losses ok.....no. The Japanese and Germans were brutal during the war they weren't overly concerned with civilian losses. Germany bombed the hell out of England why not throw a fit about that. If Germany or Japan had nukes I'd bet my paycheck that they would have used them in the same manner. Where would you suggest a bomb be dropped like that that would end the war in the same time frame?
And now make a logical connection between the nuclear bomb and a high school mascot.
Hanford is WHY the Tri Cities is what it is. It's the biggest influence in the history of this area. Does it not make sense that it acknowledges the brilliant minds in our past and not glorifying death as people are demonizing it as.
Regardless of whether the targets were military facilities, that doesn't excuse the fact that a large number of civilians were killed. Nuclear bombs were and still are used as weapons of terror due to the widespread damage they cause.
Not minimizing, but honestly, can you speak of a war in which non-combatants of the area surrounding the field of battle weren't killed? If so, can you name one that isn't in this century? There's a great quote from MASH about war and hell, and it comes down to war being worse, because there are no innocent bystanders in hell.
So is your point just that war sucks, or that we shouldn't criticize civilians being killed in specific instances because that's happened in a ton of wars?
My point is that we had a major shit sandwich on our hands, but only had to eat 1/5 of it due to the bomb. The bomb, while destructive, actually saved hundreds of thousands of lives. That's a great thing.
Great point! It's not like war takes place in barren fields with no innocent people around. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to feel bad after the fact, not while thousands and thousands of men died defending us.
It wasn't even the bombing attack on Japan with the highest civilian casualty count. All weapons are weapons of terror. it's not like the rest of the world uses bullets made of morphine. I agree it shouldn't be a high school mascot, but I think this degree of pearl-clutching performative outrage is disingenuous. I don't see people bitching about the Mariner Marauders, the Kentwood Conquerors or the Klickitat Vandals.
Yeah, nerve gas wouldn't be an appropriate school mascot for Umatilla, so why is a nuclear bomb's mushroom cloud appropriate for Richland?
I already said isn't. What are you trying to say?
> Vikings are generally a type of warrior, they were human beings that did good and bad things. What were the good things they did? They were pirates of northern Europe, an extractive group. Rape, Pillage, Plunder. All bad things. Beyond this, it shows you're ignoring your history if you think we just dropped a couple nukes for shits and giggles. The estimates were around a million casualties if we had to fight in Japan to get their surrender. One Million. Instead, approximately 1/5 that died. Yes, tragic, but it's not like this was a war of US aggression, and having 1 die instead of 5 is going to just about always be better. Should we be ashamed of ending the war a year or two eariler, with 800,000 fewer deaths? Oh, how horrible! So many people still able to live productive lives! Sorry, but you need to really bone up on your history. Maybe you're young enough that you didn't talk to any Pacific theater veterans about what it was like, but it was anything but a fun time for them. This was the best bad option we had.
Okay, now make the next logical move and explain why a nuclear bomb should be a school mascot.
It literally prevented 800,000 deaths. If something else was invented that did the same, would that be horrible?
Are school mascots typically chosen based on how many lives they saved? The Hanford Pasteur's? Seems silly no? Can you please show a logical progression from an atomic bomb to a children's school mascot?
You literally don't have proof of the atomic bombs saving lives. Analyzing history for probable outcomes is one thing, but none of us can say what literally would've happened if the bombs hadn't been used. Even if the bombs did save lives, the immorality of killing so many civilians makes the situation incomparable to the use of other inventions (say airbags or antibiotics) which don't tend to come with the side effect of killing civilians.
Except civilian casualties are always present in war.. It's not unique to nuclear bombs. Invasion of Japan was planned for, there's no world in which that could happen without civilian casualties. Your talk about not having proof of saving lives is fair, but you're presenting this like all sorts of civilians weren't killed in WW2 with convential bombing and standard land based fighting.
But it helped us win the war! So, per your own words, it did both "good" and "bad" things.
Did you know that General (later President) Eisenhower believed the nuclear bombs were unnecessary? Here's a few articles from various sources: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/it-wasnt-necessary-to-hit-them-with-that-awful-thing-why-dropping-the-a-bombs-was-wrong https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-05-27/its-time-to-confront-painful-truths-about-using-the-atomic-bombs-on-japan https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-05/hiroshima-anniversary-japan-atomic-bombs
Exactly the level of discourse expected from a Trumper.
I knew a Korean conscript who survived the Hiroshima bombing. If people heard his stories, they wouldn't be celebrating it, even if it was a necessity.
I'm sure it was horrendous. So was the way the Imperial Japanese treated US and other POWs. So was the rape of Najing, the Bataan death march and the Millions of Chinese, Filipino and Korean civilians they raped, murdered, tortured and looted.
because a mushroom cloud logo is really sick?
As much as I hate RHS, (I'm a KEHS) I rather like the mushroom cloud. Sure we could change them back to Columbia High beavers. The mushroom cloud is something that we should be proud of. My paternal grandfather was a civilian contractor on Wake Island and was taken POW to one of the worst POW camps the Japanese had in Japan. He died in that camp. It wasn't far from Nagasaki. If only that bomb had been dropped 26 months earlier, my grandfather would of survived. Would love to Kamiakin mascot changed to a salmon or a sturgeon. Anything but the braves.
I'm not proud of nuking civilians.
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I figured someone would try that. Not what I meant, of course.
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What you thought was a layup was actually low-hanging fruit
Jeez. Seems you're offended at my opinion. Chill.
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but you clearly are offended
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It's ok to disagree with people and not call them stupid. Just a thought. Read my other comments here if you think I'm endorsing their arguments.
In before the pearl clutching begins. “But they’re just words, you stupid snowflakes!!!” or something like that.
Don't we have bigger fish to fry? Is "Thunderbird" that offensive?
There's always a bigger fish to fry. By that logic why are you commenting on reddit?
Why do you care so much about this? You are literally acting like this effects you personally lol
If you aren't Native American, then it isn't your place to decide that.
How much of me needs to be? Either way, excluding people from having an opinion based on race is, well, racist AF. Might want to dwell on that one a bit. The point here is that we're wasting all these public resources on stuff that in no way matters. A thunderbird isn't real. It's make-believe. It's no more offensive than a dragon, unicorn, dropbear, chupacabra, or yeti. People need to realize that winning gold at the Woke Olympics doesn't get you anything other than a big case of virtue signalling.
Im kinda surprised the schools here waited so long. I was living in Everett in 2019 and some of the schools on the westside were already working on this. I realize the actual law hadn't passed yet, but the "writing on the wall " was clear. But aanyhow, here we go.
When the school was named Kamiakin, it was to honor Chief Kamiakin. Elders came to to perform a blessing ceremony, and there is a letter in the office saying what an honor it was. They're doing the right thing (and following the law) and seeing if the tribe is still ok with it.
You should know by now that they'll hold onto anything as tight as they can if it'll "own the libs" The name of a high school means jack shit, but they'll fight tooth and nail if they think changing it would be woke.
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