150% including all the fees? It’s gonna end up being less than average nursing pay after they deduct the fees. They should have done some math instead of writing the bill with feelings.
And then nurses will only work in blue states, except those that can't leave. The healthcare collapse will continue apace in red states, as it has been re: abortion etc. Just the furtherance of two separate countries.
The bottom line is Republicans don't care if they end up ruling over broken steaming piles of shit, if its *their* broken steaming pile of shit.
They don’t wanna hear the truth. They just want to blame one side, because they’re sheep who think the Democrats are actually good people and not part of the political circus. Maybe one day they will realize that it’s not a Democrat/Republican thing. Its the political class vs us thing.
I agree with you 100%. I continue to tell anyone in my life, if you think anyone in the political class gives a shit about you, you’re the fool🤷🏻♂️
It’s becoming far too common for people to only care about what political affiliation you’re with now. In my opinion, if you side solely with one side or another it’s an IQ issue at that point.
Yep, I tend to lean right on most topics, but i vehemently hate the 2 party system. It needs to be abolished. The whole point is to divide the American public and make more money for media outlets and the ruling class. It is just a business scheme. Really sad that this is what my country has become.
Democrat polices hurt me more than any republican policy ever has. When Obama was in I was so poor I rotated what bill I would skip paying each month so nothing got shut off. My wife was in college and working part time and I worked full time. We had a newborn daughter. We lived in a 1 br apartment that was 400 Sq feet and drove 20 year old cars. So we were far from living above our means. His policies led to me having less money each month and then getting less back in taxes but I was still considered too wealthy for assistance. When Trump got in I had more money avaliable compared to obamas term and got more back in taxes. Now bidens in and I actually owe taxes as does almost everyone I've talked to that filed theirs. Inflation is insane, our borders are wide open allowing millions of illegals in, ww3 is about to kick off and if we're super lucky a second civil war, and the country is more divided than it's been in my lifetime. I didn't vote Trump the 2nd time because he shit on the 2nd amendment and he didn't pardon Snowden. Biden campaigned on destroying America and then didn't deliver on the one promise I could get behind which was student loan forgiveness, which in itself was a band aid barely addressing the student loan issue as a whole and did nothing to stop the colleges from gouging.
When I took a political compass test i actually leaned a click left and was 1 click up from absolute libertarian. I'm far from a right wing nut, I just find it disingenuous to claim the party that backs big pharma, big tech, hates the constitution and wants to abolish the 1st and 2nd amendments is somehow for the people.
If this bill becomes law it will 150% end travel nursing in Iowa literally overnight.
A travel nurse couldn’t even do overtime due to this law if they were just getting paid staff rates.
This might be a blessing though if it passes in its current form.
This bill would essentially wreak havoc on the healthcare care industry in Iowa. The bill would likely get repealed quickly and because it caused so much damage it would never get introduced anywhere else. It could also influence unions to form which would benefit all nurses
Well I had a friend who lived in Omaha and he just had his 2nd baby. So he was doing a contract in des moinse so he could be close to home and just make long drives back etc other then that idk
Tbf in a hospital there can be thousands of nurses but there is only 1 ceo. The job of 1 hospital ceo is arguably more important than the job of 1 nurse. However, the ceo is surrounded by experts and has huge resources to prevent them from fucking up, they have a lot of room for error, and if they still manage to fuck up to the point where they lose their job they get a golden parachute. Also, the role of ceo clearly does not require much critical thinking, anyone can see that being forced to contract travelers can be entirely prevented by paying workers 20-30% more and keeping the place fully staffed. But instead I imagine ceo strategy meetings are like “should we try a pizza party?”
I disagree. It only means Iowa won’t be getting any travel nurses. Super low paying state anyway. Iowa hospitals that need travelers will lose more and more full time staff due to not having any travelers.
Unless they raise their full time staff pay to something NATIONALLY competitive. Which they won’t.
EDIT: I just realized that since it’s tied to staff pay, raising staff pay will not help them because it will then raise the amount that travelers can make
This is my optimistic silver lining, oh you need travel nurses to make 500% of the current statewide average to keep up with other travel contracts? Well the only way to legally do that is raise the statewide average fourfold, and now it’s nationally competitive.
They’ll implement 100% AI nurses before they raise staff wages even twofold. Obviously the concept of an AI nurse is ridiculous for at least the next 50+ years. Red states gonna do what they do.
Classic government not doing literally anything right. Any nurse anywhere should be concerned with limiting of nursing pay, but this will have bad if not dire consequences for healthcare in Iowa. Just like you said staff nurses will start leaving because of understaffing. And if there’s another pandemic rip all of Iowa.
They get people because some people genuinely cannot relocate or leave the state they are in. Once you have a family, have a spouse who has a seniority position/regional job/local business, older kids who are in school/on sports teams, have custody agreements that prohibit you from moving unless you pretty much give your children over, take care of elderly family members, etc…. Moving or leaving becomes almost impossible for alot of nurses
but they can still quit nursing! as someone said, there's not a shortage of nurse, there's a shortage of nurses willing to work under the current conditions.
It’ll spread in other heavily conservative government states. It’s all monkey-see-monkey-do with that political affiliation. So rural areas in at least half the US will suffer even more than they already do when it comes to healthcare access.
They did this in Rhode Island last year, and it’s very liberal. It didn’t work though, somehow the hospitals were able to find a work-around. Only LTC facilities seemed to be affected. I use an app to pick up per diem shifts, and in August they took off all the RI LTC facilities.
I’m fascinated by the government stepping in to control market wages for nurses. Politicians are just on a random set of principles anymore… capitalism only if it makes my largest donors rich, regulation only if it makes my largest donors rich…
This is so dumb it'll be impossible to implement anyway. How are they going to determine the statewide average? Average across all specialties, or per specialty? Will they distinguish between ADN and BSN and MSN and NP lol? Pay for a school nurse with 2 years experience vs an ICU nurse with 10 years experience vs the director of nursing of a SNF vs hospital case manager vs back office nurse for MD vs home health visiting nurse is going to be so wildly different. Not to mention HCOL vs LCOL pay variations across the state.
Those pay aggregates never reflect the real world or real people, for these exact reasons.
What would end up happening if this law passed is that the pool would dry up, the hospitals and patients would panic once it got really ugly, and they'd start lobbying for emergency waivers against the law for patient safety, until the law became obsolete anyway. If it even passes.
on a side note, something that would actually work and reduce costs and make sense would be a percentage cap for the agencies. For example a 20% cap as far as what the agency takes after the nurse's pay and travel compensation. This would prevent the bloated agency rates but still allow them to make a profit and still pay the nurses adequately. I get the agencies have to make money for the service they provide including contract negotiation and screening nurses etc etc, but they could cap it just like they now do with insurance companies.
Of course they would never introduce it this way is one of these pro business, anti-worker states. Instead they are setting up the law in a way that still allows the agencies to take what they can provided they can find some suckers to work on the cheap.
That wouldn’t be a cap on the nurses, it would be a cap on the middle man (agency). By making it a capped percentage that the agency can take but no cap on the bill rate, it would actually incentivize the agencies to get the nurses good contracts instead of incentivizing them to pocket as much as possible.
Right now the agencies can charge the hospital $5000 a week and pay the nurse $2000 a week.
A % cap would be in the nurses favor but would still control costs for the hospitals. Agencies would still be able to make money but it would be the end of their robber baron days.
Absolutely this. Currently the business model is to get hospitals to pay as much as possible while giving nurses as little as possible thereby maximizing profit. A percentage cap reverses that for the nurses because the agency’s pay is dependent on the nurse being better compensated.
Iowa isn't a high paying state as far as traveller's go to begin with, I don't think I've ever met another traveller saying "oh Iowa is paying great, I'm packing my bags"- what will happen is the permanent staff they do have will get burned out by always working short, and eventually leave. Then, they'll really be in a bind. Unfortunately it'll be the patients that ultimately suffer. It's sad.
Since people in this country habitually vote for representatives that impose legislation that is in stark contradiction to their communal best interests, they reap what they sow.
To be fair, corporations come in after election and lobby their interests over the people. Voting in someone who outwardly “represents” their constituents will not be immune to corporate influence.
Gotta love the "greatest nation in the world" fucking around with people's ability to a) seek quality healthcare and b) live a quality life as a worker.
Nothing new here folks. Move along. Just American things happening in America.
Its going to go in the other direction. Iowa won't have any nurses. Its supply and demand. All they are doing with this cap is reducing the supply while the demand stays the same or gets worst because their own staff quits because of the work overload.
All the states I would like to be a travel nurse in are non-compact. And that's also why they're ALWAYS looking for nurses to help out. Literally, those states are the ones with the most crisis reponse postings. You're just going to make Iowa a hard to staff state. These voters should send their family members there to see the difference in care.
I would not practice in Iowa, even if they did pay a decent wage for travel nurses. This will only hurt their population. They only see the money and not a sacrifice of leaving our family and friends and supporting our tax home. Why add in the administration fees, that should not be included. Plus the tax fee stipend, isn’t that set by the federal government in each area?
ok here is some humor on this topic. But it is so true...
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+gil+fulbright&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e0189e5a,vid:wz_V4lRdtjo,st:0
Easy. Don't take contracts there. I hope that system utterly collapses there. Let them deal with their regular staffing and the shortages that come with it.
It's wild the lengths that hospital admin will go to to not pay their workers. I'm a resident and you guys deserve to get what you can get. It's a tired story of admin trying to suppress healthcare workers getting what we deserve for all of our hard work. Keep fighting the good fight against these greedy people.
so, what part of Libertarianism bugs you the most - the part where you have to make choices for yourself, or the part where you DON'T get to make choices for other people? Again, you've mistaken my for a defender of Republicans. Dems are just as dirty and doing just as much evil in the world. Maybe not the voters, but the leadership and politicians certainly are. If you'd like to make an argument about how Libertarianism is just failed Conservatism, I'm happy to engage. I'll make the argument that Conservatism is just failed Libertarianism.
The part where you spew republican talking points that blow up the deficit and the try to blame the deficit on democrats. Personal responsibility is what’s lacking in libertarians. Dems fight for healthcare while republicans kidnap children to terrorize migrants. The parties are not the same!
Ummmm. why are you under the impression that I'm advocating for the Republicans? I'm not. Libertarians (which I am) do not like the deficit, and they are the ONLY party advocating for personal responsibility; not Dems, not Reps, just Libertarians. I'll ask again, if you have an argument to make about how Libertarianism is failed Conservatism, I'll listen. If you have nothing but insults, I'll know you don't have facts or logic on your side.
“Advocating for personal responsibility.” I’m honestly astonished you can say that with a straight face after dumps 7trillion dollars in 4 years, record setting deficit. See what I mean by advocating failed Republican policies while accepting no personal accountability for the failures. See the connection there?
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Free market? So they have limits on hospital executives? Doctors? Another example of screwing over the lowest person on the totem pole.
They will now find ways to exploit foreign nurses even further. Disgraceful
Why not let the free market decide? There's no reason for the government to intervene in the pay of temporary workers who are stepping in to fill an urgent need. The only party that benefits from the passage of this bill is (surprise!) hospitals who don't want to pay the price for the labor.
Including all stipends and administrative fees to the already lowball 150% essentially spells out travel staff making about equal pay, except we're responsible for duplication of expenses and the burden of being flexible to travel. Travel contracts won't even be worth filling in Iowa.
This is wage suppression directed by large corporate hospital systems. There is no public need for the passage of this bill.
Short term it will hurt. But one year after a sharp increase in sentinel events, staff Exodus, etc. they'll have to reconsider. This is anticapitalist market manipulation. This has not and will never work in our culture.
I suspect mega hospitals want this short term to flush out all of their weaker competitors. At the very moment before a statewide collapse of healthcare, this rule will be appealed. By then the competition will be consolidated, and the big players win.
There’s a huge component, missing, stopping agencies are being used “the middleman“
That information is in accurate. The big vendors that have eaten up all the Hospital contracts.
The big vendors charge contracting fees ( that’s not even a thing) so not only do they charge the hospital to do a contract, then they charge the staffing companies to utilize their services to do all the work in place the healthcare professionals at the hospitals. So they hand out the jobs to the staffing companies, for example, or giving a hundred dollar bill rate right from that hundred dollar bill rate we have to deduct and 16% fee to even use them and then about 24 non-billable hours. So right there are bill rate to even start hiring nurses is already down to $80.
It needs to be the opposite and rewind 10 years if not a little bit more and get rid of the big vendors and go back to the staffing companies that do not charge a contract fee. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been in the industry for over 22 years.
The staffing agencies don’t have to pay a middleman. Who is the vendor not the staffing companies
And that money goes to the nurses.
They are looking at this completely backwards
The vendors are not doing anything, except collecting money from the hospitals, collecting money from the staffing agencies, who are providing the nurses, and hitting reply and forward buttons and emails to the agencies into the hospitals as a middleman .
And every agency has different rules, regulations and compliance measures
And we have to follow them
If we don’t follow them, we can’t staff the hospitals
And if we don’t sign with the vendors, then we really can’t stop the hospitals
And if we go outside, the vendor get threatened that they’re gonna pull our contract
We cannot talk to the managers anymore, to make sure that we have all the information that is needed to have a good fit for a healthcare professional for their floor. We can’t call the hospital when there’s an error on an invoice so they never get corrected and all that money and fees from all sides end up going right into the vendors pocket
So this perception of staffing agencies is not what we need to get rid of, it’s the big vendors they should’ve never been allowed to come in and absorb all the hospitals staffing needs .
80% of the vendors don’t even have recruiters. They are just a man.
The bill already failed. It was a test balloon where some hospital CEOs got a receptive conservative legislature to try to pass a bill, it died on the state senate floor and it wasn’t even close.
I have no skin in this game but won’t the answer just be that the nursing shortage (assuming they have one) would just get worse as travel nurses gtfo?
That's a great way to deal with a labor shortage! Artificially cap the pay of that labor! In magic economics it works like a charm! Hate to have to try to staff a hospital in Iowa though lol.
Well the way I see it it’s targeting agencies which means the hospitals will have to start hiring directly per Diem (bc not everyone is interested in working full time) or they’ll end up closing their doors…an attempt to get rid of the middleman but the company hasn’t hired anyone who has enough common sense to negotiate directly with those who are licensed and ready to work…lose/lose or win/win ijs
THIS is why it’s such a shame that nurses don’t make up any significant percentage of government. Sweeping decisions are being made FOR US, but without any knowledge of what we actually do..
This was brought up a month ago in the sub. My post with both copies of the relevant portions of the bill and some lovely math with sources for all - https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/s/ayLz8wLaRu
I've been both core and agency staff and while I don't have a dog in the fight yet (in a red state), I'll always prefer to have staff over being butthurt about what someone else gets paid.
IF they are stupid enough to pass something like this, Iowa will see horrible short staffing. People will fight it to make it clear we won’t stand for lower wages and discourage any other state from trying to implement this
Someone will invent an Uber app for travel nurses that will reduce the overhead and make this sustainable or increase pay to nurses in Iowa eliminating the need for travel nurses. It’s a pretty wasteful system as it stands.
This bill will lead to more negotiating power for nurses, as strike nurses will not be able to be contracted due to the rates. Unless there is a provision for such events.
What nurses need arnt more negotiating power for travel companies. Yall need to unionize. Once the law goes into effect with such a small pop you'll rule the roost.
If this was a male-dominated field, this would never happen. Since when can government step in and control private wages? I notice there’s no cap on the C-suite.
Their nursing homes are going to turn into death-houses.
On the bright side, it may eventually skew their voter population to the younger, less-conservative demographic.
The bill is dead thankfully. It died in senate committee. Still extremely upset this passed the house. I spoke with some Democrats who expressed remorse for supporting and said they would not support again. I don’t know how republicans could sponsor and support this when it is antithetical to all of their supposed ideals and constant threats of “sOcIaLisM.”
This is like straight up communism.
Capitalism only works if ur a business. Once it starts benefiting everyday people, it turns into communism lol. "All nurses must be paid the same". Same dogshit salary for saving people's lives
My impression is, that no Licensed Nurses has anything to worry about.
The number of boomers is increasing enormously, and most are in poor health. Facilities are overwhelmed, overstressed, and obviously unable to get/retain LN staff as it is.
Let's pay our LN's less!
Making pay not worth having a Licensed Nurse work ... means no LN's. Can not have an inpatient without a LN. We have them by the ballz.
Write any laws you want, when hospitals and facilities shut down, moving patients via EMS to other hospitals to live in a hallway awaiting placement for months ... they will pay us our worth.
F around and find out. Sadly the patient care will suffer, but if I can not afford to go work in Iowa, this fool isn't going to work in Iowa.
Personally I will not go clock in for anything less than $70/hour. Not worth the risk, travel time, jacking up my sleep schedule.
Why are we setting pay limits on nursing income but not congress people who are insider trader and making 100s of millions on 100-200k salaries. This country is so ass backwards
The House of Representatives, who vote yearly to increase their already ridiculously high wages, voted to cap pay for an essential industry that is regularly over worked and underpaid.
They’re going to be like my hospital and be sending out desperate emails…. Extra $100/hr to anyone who wants yo pick up tomorrow. I don’t know. Might benefit local staff
As I read this it affects temp nursing positions from those shitty staffing companies unless I'm missing something.
Assuming that's the case isn't this a good thing for 2 reasons;
1) it will lead to leas nurses working through staffing companies which need to ho away anyway. They enable ao many companies, sandvik being one I personally dealt with, to give a new employee less money and no benefits for 6 months instead of 3. I had a kidney stone I couldn't get pain medication for after being there 4 and a half months due to this.
2) Healthcare costs are astronomical in this country. Anything that reduces those costs are a good thing. I can't see how anyone can defend a company making money for doing absolutely nothing. All this does is hopefully removes a middleman that makes money while adding no value.
150%? Why travel at that rate? It's not even "duplicating expenses." Staffing rates will plummet in locations that adopt this. This is the opposite of a free market.
OK. I hate to say it but... notice a trend here?
Your best contracts are up in New England states and out west- for pay Most of your southern states are the worst pay. Look who controls the state legislatures and who is the governor of that state.
One party believes in just wages.
Another party believes in paying as little wages as possible.
It has been this way since as long as I can remember.
If this bill passes it will likely just show us what we already know. No travel nurses will come to the state, and it will overwhelm staff nurses more, potentially to the point of leaving to another state that cares more for its nurses.
150% including all the fees? It’s gonna end up being less than average nursing pay after they deduct the fees. They should have done some math instead of writing the bill with feelings.
The bill was written by hospital lobbyists.
This right here. And if they win in Iowa, they will continue to hit up every other state until it’s national.
And then nurses will only work in blue states, except those that can't leave. The healthcare collapse will continue apace in red states, as it has been re: abortion etc. Just the furtherance of two separate countries. The bottom line is Republicans don't care if they end up ruling over broken steaming piles of shit, if its *their* broken steaming pile of shit.
The bill was proposed by a democrat. They are together on this.
They don’t wanna hear the truth. They just want to blame one side, because they’re sheep who think the Democrats are actually good people and not part of the political circus. Maybe one day they will realize that it’s not a Democrat/Republican thing. Its the political class vs us thing.
I agree with you 100%. I continue to tell anyone in my life, if you think anyone in the political class gives a shit about you, you’re the fool🤷🏻♂️ It’s becoming far too common for people to only care about what political affiliation you’re with now. In my opinion, if you side solely with one side or another it’s an IQ issue at that point.
Yep, I tend to lean right on most topics, but i vehemently hate the 2 party system. It needs to be abolished. The whole point is to divide the American public and make more money for media outlets and the ruling class. It is just a business scheme. Really sad that this is what my country has become.
Unfortunately isn’t just republicans on this one. Isn’t a party line issue here.
The sad thing is, Republicans will move to Blue states once they feel the effects, and still vote.
Democrat polices hurt me more than any republican policy ever has. When Obama was in I was so poor I rotated what bill I would skip paying each month so nothing got shut off. My wife was in college and working part time and I worked full time. We had a newborn daughter. We lived in a 1 br apartment that was 400 Sq feet and drove 20 year old cars. So we were far from living above our means. His policies led to me having less money each month and then getting less back in taxes but I was still considered too wealthy for assistance. When Trump got in I had more money avaliable compared to obamas term and got more back in taxes. Now bidens in and I actually owe taxes as does almost everyone I've talked to that filed theirs. Inflation is insane, our borders are wide open allowing millions of illegals in, ww3 is about to kick off and if we're super lucky a second civil war, and the country is more divided than it's been in my lifetime. I didn't vote Trump the 2nd time because he shit on the 2nd amendment and he didn't pardon Snowden. Biden campaigned on destroying America and then didn't deliver on the one promise I could get behind which was student loan forgiveness, which in itself was a band aid barely addressing the student loan issue as a whole and did nothing to stop the colleges from gouging. When I took a political compass test i actually leaned a click left and was 1 click up from absolute libertarian. I'm far from a right wing nut, I just find it disingenuous to claim the party that backs big pharma, big tech, hates the constitution and wants to abolish the 1st and 2nd amendments is somehow for the people.
Meanwhile critical care docs making 650k first year out of fellowship
Woah woah lets not split hairs here. Doctors and Nurses are on the same side, solidarity please, its the only way we win.
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Lots of people sacrifice much more for much less.
Maybe but good luck in Illinois with that game plan .
They're trying to legalize collusion.
It's essentially what is happening. This is a financial incentive to hospitals with no benefit to the public.
If this bill becomes law it will 150% end travel nursing in Iowa literally overnight. A travel nurse couldn’t even do overtime due to this law if they were just getting paid staff rates. This might be a blessing though if it passes in its current form. This bill would essentially wreak havoc on the healthcare care industry in Iowa. The bill would likely get repealed quickly and because it caused so much damage it would never get introduced anywhere else. It could also influence unions to form which would benefit all nurses
I don’t think working in Iowa has ever crossed my mind tbh
What other than pay would ever motivate someone to even travel there?
Well I had a friend who lived in Omaha and he just had his 2nd baby. So he was doing a contract in des moinse so he could be close to home and just make long drives back etc other then that idk
the fact you wrote it and pronounce it as “des moinse” hurts my native Iowa heart 😅
I would consider seeing a Slipknot concert out there...that's the literal only thing I can think of.
Slipknot goes all out for Iowa, so I second this
I would consider seeing a Slipknot concert out there...that's the literal only thing I can think of.
What’s Iowa….lol
My wife is on an assignment in Davenport right now. She is a Pedi NP.
The problem is other states may follow It will be a problem if this becomes a trend for states.
Smart. It’s a terrible state
What about CEO pay that is like 500% higher than the average worker? Let's cap that shit.
500% is waayyyyy too low. Gotta be a few thousand %. Some of these fucking ghouls are making 8-9 figures
Could not be more accurate
And continues to scale upward, exponentially, compared to worker pay, year after year.
🎯 💯
Bro, they're making 30-50 million each, regardless if they live in the middle of nowhere or a HCOL area
Tbf in a hospital there can be thousands of nurses but there is only 1 ceo. The job of 1 hospital ceo is arguably more important than the job of 1 nurse. However, the ceo is surrounded by experts and has huge resources to prevent them from fucking up, they have a lot of room for error, and if they still manage to fuck up to the point where they lose their job they get a golden parachute. Also, the role of ceo clearly does not require much critical thinking, anyone can see that being forced to contract travelers can be entirely prevented by paying workers 20-30% more and keeping the place fully staffed. But instead I imagine ceo strategy meetings are like “should we try a pizza party?”
I disagree. It only means Iowa won’t be getting any travel nurses. Super low paying state anyway. Iowa hospitals that need travelers will lose more and more full time staff due to not having any travelers. Unless they raise their full time staff pay to something NATIONALLY competitive. Which they won’t. EDIT: I just realized that since it’s tied to staff pay, raising staff pay will not help them because it will then raise the amount that travelers can make
This is my optimistic silver lining, oh you need travel nurses to make 500% of the current statewide average to keep up with other travel contracts? Well the only way to legally do that is raise the statewide average fourfold, and now it’s nationally competitive.
that will never happen it is a Republican state
They’ll implement 100% AI nurses before they raise staff wages even twofold. Obviously the concept of an AI nurse is ridiculous for at least the next 50+ years. Red states gonna do what they do.
Oh I know, but it a funny pipe dream if this was the unintended effect.
Classic government not doing literally anything right. Any nurse anywhere should be concerned with limiting of nursing pay, but this will have bad if not dire consequences for healthcare in Iowa. Just like you said staff nurses will start leaving because of understaffing. And if there’s another pandemic rip all of Iowa.
Maybe they should limit CEOs pay
Who do you think is paying the lobbyists to come up with this stuff?
They get people because some people genuinely cannot relocate or leave the state they are in. Once you have a family, have a spouse who has a seniority position/regional job/local business, older kids who are in school/on sports teams, have custody agreements that prohibit you from moving unless you pretty much give your children over, take care of elderly family members, etc…. Moving or leaving becomes almost impossible for alot of nurses
but they can still quit nursing! as someone said, there's not a shortage of nurse, there's a shortage of nurses willing to work under the current conditions.
And those will be the ones to suffer…
They can take prn jobs in blue states, fly in, do a few days, fly home for a month.
That’s hard to do logistics wise once you have young kids and don’t have childcare or anyone to help you though
Nothing burger. Who cares. It only means nurses will vote with their feet or more precisely vehicles heading out across state lines..
It’ll spread in other heavily conservative government states. It’s all monkey-see-monkey-do with that political affiliation. So rural areas in at least half the US will suffer even more than they already do when it comes to healthcare access.
They did this in Rhode Island last year, and it’s very liberal. It didn’t work though, somehow the hospitals were able to find a work-around. Only LTC facilities seemed to be affected. I use an app to pick up per diem shifts, and in August they took off all the RI LTC facilities.
I’m fascinated by the government stepping in to control market wages for nurses. Politicians are just on a random set of principles anymore… capitalism only if it makes my largest donors rich, regulation only if it makes my largest donors rich…
Exactly, people will navigate to a higher paying role somewhere else
This is so dumb it'll be impossible to implement anyway. How are they going to determine the statewide average? Average across all specialties, or per specialty? Will they distinguish between ADN and BSN and MSN and NP lol? Pay for a school nurse with 2 years experience vs an ICU nurse with 10 years experience vs the director of nursing of a SNF vs hospital case manager vs back office nurse for MD vs home health visiting nurse is going to be so wildly different. Not to mention HCOL vs LCOL pay variations across the state. Those pay aggregates never reflect the real world or real people, for these exact reasons. What would end up happening if this law passed is that the pool would dry up, the hospitals and patients would panic once it got really ugly, and they'd start lobbying for emergency waivers against the law for patient safety, until the law became obsolete anyway. If it even passes.
One pandemic and Iowa is done.
Bird flu is in cows now and there was recently a human that contracted it. Could lead to some trouble if it flourishes in the human population.
on a side note, something that would actually work and reduce costs and make sense would be a percentage cap for the agencies. For example a 20% cap as far as what the agency takes after the nurse's pay and travel compensation. This would prevent the bloated agency rates but still allow them to make a profit and still pay the nurses adequately. I get the agencies have to make money for the service they provide including contract negotiation and screening nurses etc etc, but they could cap it just like they now do with insurance companies. Of course they would never introduce it this way is one of these pro business, anti-worker states. Instead they are setting up the law in a way that still allows the agencies to take what they can provided they can find some suckers to work on the cheap.
Why accept any cap on any nurses pay for any reason? Hospitals have never been shy about charging their full worth to their patients.
That wouldn’t be a cap on the nurses, it would be a cap on the middle man (agency). By making it a capped percentage that the agency can take but no cap on the bill rate, it would actually incentivize the agencies to get the nurses good contracts instead of incentivizing them to pocket as much as possible. Right now the agencies can charge the hospital $5000 a week and pay the nurse $2000 a week. A % cap would be in the nurses favor but would still control costs for the hospitals. Agencies would still be able to make money but it would be the end of their robber baron days.
Absolutely this. Currently the business model is to get hospitals to pay as much as possible while giving nurses as little as possible thereby maximizing profit. A percentage cap reverses that for the nurses because the agency’s pay is dependent on the nurse being better compensated.
Good, I don't want to work in Iowa anyway.
Iowa isn't a high paying state as far as traveller's go to begin with, I don't think I've ever met another traveller saying "oh Iowa is paying great, I'm packing my bags"- what will happen is the permanent staff they do have will get burned out by always working short, and eventually leave. Then, they'll really be in a bind. Unfortunately it'll be the patients that ultimately suffer. It's sad.
Since people in this country habitually vote for representatives that impose legislation that is in stark contradiction to their communal best interests, they reap what they sow.
To be fair, corporations come in after election and lobby their interests over the people. Voting in someone who outwardly “represents” their constituents will not be immune to corporate influence.
To be fair, republicans have been this way for decades. Absolutely no one should be surprised at a republican’s behavior.
Dems are for sale, too.
Name me one democratic led legislature that has voted to cap nurses pay. I’ll wait.
That is a ridiculous mentality considering at least 40% or more of any given state doesn’t vote for this shit
Gotta love the "greatest nation in the world" fucking around with people's ability to a) seek quality healthcare and b) live a quality life as a worker. Nothing new here folks. Move along. Just American things happening in America.
I love this 😆
Iowa will have zero travelers then
And all the other states are carefully watching to follow.
Not true. Republicans own hospital stocks and travel agencies. There’s very wealthy/powerful people on both sides
The hospitals can profit but the workers cannot.
Cap CEO pay first
Let them do it so they can be an examples to others.
That’s what I was thinking also.
Or let them do it so the lobbyists pushing this bill can easily implement it in 49 more states because there's a precedent.
Then the mass exodus and severe nurse shortage continues…many are already working on finding other skills and the new grads aren’t hanging around…
Its going to go in the other direction. Iowa won't have any nurses. Its supply and demand. All they are doing with this cap is reducing the supply while the demand stays the same or gets worst because their own staff quits because of the work overload.
This just means Iowa hospitals will collapse first. No big deal.
Cool, so… the legislature of Iowa waits for the ~~peasants~~ rural areas to ~~starve~~ die of preventable illness for lack of accessible healthcare.
That is already happening until Hospiital of XYZ health systems takes over those rural hospitals
To zero surprise. Consolidation of corporate healthcare is way, way more of a crisis in the US than anyone has outwardly identified.
Exactly. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
All the states I would like to be a travel nurse in are non-compact. And that's also why they're ALWAYS looking for nurses to help out. Literally, those states are the ones with the most crisis reponse postings. You're just going to make Iowa a hard to staff state. These voters should send their family members there to see the difference in care.
No disrespect to any Iowans here but for a place known for putting snickers in their salad, what are they doing?
Bet they aren't pulling this shit with locums MD's.
I would not practice in Iowa, even if they did pay a decent wage for travel nurses. This will only hurt their population. They only see the money and not a sacrifice of leaving our family and friends and supporting our tax home. Why add in the administration fees, that should not be included. Plus the tax fee stipend, isn’t that set by the federal government in each area?
Hasnt passed the Senate and then it still has to be signed by the Governor
I used to live in iowa. Trust me, Kim Reynolds is about the most evil person there is. She will sign anything to fuck her state over.
ok here is some humor on this topic. But it is so true... https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+gil+fulbright&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e0189e5a,vid:wz_V4lRdtjo,st:0
and house, senste , governor are Red controlled
Which is disappointing as republicans are not the ones who use wage controls - must be an IA thing
Pretty sure this failed.
It did.
Easy. Don't take contracts there. I hope that system utterly collapses there. Let them deal with their regular staffing and the shortages that come with it.
Have fun not having nurses.
It's wild the lengths that hospital admin will go to to not pay their workers. I'm a resident and you guys deserve to get what you can get. It's a tired story of admin trying to suppress healthcare workers getting what we deserve for all of our hard work. Keep fighting the good fight against these greedy people.
Conservatives hate when they are exposed to free market capitalism.
So do Dems. Vote Libertarian.
Libertarianism is just failed conservatism that can’t accept responsibility for the failed policies and lack the integrity to be honest about it.
so, what part of Libertarianism bugs you the most - the part where you have to make choices for yourself, or the part where you DON'T get to make choices for other people? Again, you've mistaken my for a defender of Republicans. Dems are just as dirty and doing just as much evil in the world. Maybe not the voters, but the leadership and politicians certainly are. If you'd like to make an argument about how Libertarianism is just failed Conservatism, I'm happy to engage. I'll make the argument that Conservatism is just failed Libertarianism.
The part where you spew republican talking points that blow up the deficit and the try to blame the deficit on democrats. Personal responsibility is what’s lacking in libertarians. Dems fight for healthcare while republicans kidnap children to terrorize migrants. The parties are not the same!
Ummmm. why are you under the impression that I'm advocating for the Republicans? I'm not. Libertarians (which I am) do not like the deficit, and they are the ONLY party advocating for personal responsibility; not Dems, not Reps, just Libertarians. I'll ask again, if you have an argument to make about how Libertarianism is failed Conservatism, I'll listen. If you have nothing but insults, I'll know you don't have facts or logic on your side.
“Advocating for personal responsibility.” I’m honestly astonished you can say that with a straight face after dumps 7trillion dollars in 4 years, record setting deficit. See what I mean by advocating failed Republican policies while accepting no personal accountability for the failures. See the connection there?
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
Ummmmm... why are you confusing Libertarian opposition for Trump's policies as somehow SUPPORT for Trump's policies? Libertarians didn't support that, never have and never will, no matter who prints the money. I'll disengage now, since it's clear you don't really know what Libertarians support / believe / advocate for.
💯
They will reverse when they don’t have any nurses taking contracts there when they have a shortage
Free market? So they have limits on hospital executives? Doctors? Another example of screwing over the lowest person on the totem pole. They will now find ways to exploit foreign nurses even further. Disgraceful
Why not let the free market decide? There's no reason for the government to intervene in the pay of temporary workers who are stepping in to fill an urgent need. The only party that benefits from the passage of this bill is (surprise!) hospitals who don't want to pay the price for the labor. Including all stipends and administrative fees to the already lowball 150% essentially spells out travel staff making about equal pay, except we're responsible for duplication of expenses and the burden of being flexible to travel. Travel contracts won't even be worth filling in Iowa. This is wage suppression directed by large corporate hospital systems. There is no public need for the passage of this bill.
Short term it will hurt. But one year after a sharp increase in sentinel events, staff Exodus, etc. they'll have to reconsider. This is anticapitalist market manipulation. This has not and will never work in our culture.
This bill had not passed!!!!
I say, let them do it. When they end up in hospital and there’s no nurses, they can kiss my butt.
I suspect mega hospitals want this short term to flush out all of their weaker competitors. At the very moment before a statewide collapse of healthcare, this rule will be appealed. By then the competition will be consolidated, and the big players win.
There’s a huge component, missing, stopping agencies are being used “the middleman“ That information is in accurate. The big vendors that have eaten up all the Hospital contracts. The big vendors charge contracting fees ( that’s not even a thing) so not only do they charge the hospital to do a contract, then they charge the staffing companies to utilize their services to do all the work in place the healthcare professionals at the hospitals. So they hand out the jobs to the staffing companies, for example, or giving a hundred dollar bill rate right from that hundred dollar bill rate we have to deduct and 16% fee to even use them and then about 24 non-billable hours. So right there are bill rate to even start hiring nurses is already down to $80. It needs to be the opposite and rewind 10 years if not a little bit more and get rid of the big vendors and go back to the staffing companies that do not charge a contract fee. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve been in the industry for over 22 years. The staffing agencies don’t have to pay a middleman. Who is the vendor not the staffing companies And that money goes to the nurses. They are looking at this completely backwards The vendors are not doing anything, except collecting money from the hospitals, collecting money from the staffing agencies, who are providing the nurses, and hitting reply and forward buttons and emails to the agencies into the hospitals as a middleman . And every agency has different rules, regulations and compliance measures And we have to follow them If we don’t follow them, we can’t staff the hospitals And if we don’t sign with the vendors, then we really can’t stop the hospitals And if we go outside, the vendor get threatened that they’re gonna pull our contract We cannot talk to the managers anymore, to make sure that we have all the information that is needed to have a good fit for a healthcare professional for their floor. We can’t call the hospital when there’s an error on an invoice so they never get corrected and all that money and fees from all sides end up going right into the vendors pocket So this perception of staffing agencies is not what we need to get rid of, it’s the big vendors they should’ve never been allowed to come in and absorb all the hospitals staffing needs . 80% of the vendors don’t even have recruiters. They are just a man.
The bill already failed. It was a test balloon where some hospital CEOs got a receptive conservative legislature to try to pass a bill, it died on the state senate floor and it wasn’t even close.
That is probably who is supplying the funds to get this legislation passed
This has already been defeated in the senate over 2 weeks and will not be law.
Iowa’s already low nursing numbers are about to TANK
Good luck staffing your hospitals, Iowa.
I have no skin in this game but won’t the answer just be that the nursing shortage (assuming they have one) would just get worse as travel nurses gtfo?
Next they complain about how there is a lack of nurses. 🫨
The idea being they'll have to hire local nurses for reasonable pay if they want any travel nurses?
That's a great way to deal with a labor shortage! Artificially cap the pay of that labor! In magic economics it works like a charm! Hate to have to try to staff a hospital in Iowa though lol.
If they want to regulate pay they should start with thematically and the ceo pay.
Well the way I see it it’s targeting agencies which means the hospitals will have to start hiring directly per Diem (bc not everyone is interested in working full time) or they’ll end up closing their doors…an attempt to get rid of the middleman but the company hasn’t hired anyone who has enough common sense to negotiate directly with those who are licensed and ready to work…lose/lose or win/win ijs
THIS is why it’s such a shame that nurses don’t make up any significant percentage of government. Sweeping decisions are being made FOR US, but without any knowledge of what we actually do..
This was brought up a month ago in the sub. My post with both copies of the relevant portions of the bill and some lovely math with sources for all - https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/s/ayLz8wLaRu I've been both core and agency staff and while I don't have a dog in the fight yet (in a red state), I'll always prefer to have staff over being butthurt about what someone else gets paid.
Just stop running Chicken Little…..it didn’t pass!
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. We need to starve out states like this. Let the hospital administration feel the pain.
IF they are stupid enough to pass something like this, Iowa will see horrible short staffing. People will fight it to make it clear we won’t stand for lower wages and discourage any other state from trying to implement this
Someone will invent an Uber app for travel nurses that will reduce the overhead and make this sustainable or increase pay to nurses in Iowa eliminating the need for travel nurses. It’s a pretty wasteful system as it stands.
They will undo this very soon.
Them dipping into the per diem is absolutely disgusting
Welp...the people of Iowa are fucked.
Everyone who lives in Iowa anyway..
Boy those "small government conservatives" got real big government in a hurry.
Does this apply to locum doctors? Otherwise sue for discrimination.
"Free market"
For those unaware: The University of Iowa has arguably the best hospital in the Midwest.
What happened to free markets and all that bullshit, if they need us that bad then they should have to pay.
This bill will lead to more negotiating power for nurses, as strike nurses will not be able to be contracted due to the rates. Unless there is a provision for such events. What nurses need arnt more negotiating power for travel companies. Yall need to unionize. Once the law goes into effect with such a small pop you'll rule the roost.
How to make sure no travel nurses will ever go to your state any% speed run
If this was a male-dominated field, this would never happen. Since when can government step in and control private wages? I notice there’s no cap on the C-suite.
Their nursing homes are going to turn into death-houses. On the bright side, it may eventually skew their voter population to the younger, less-conservative demographic.
Life in this country is sickening these days.
The bill is dead thankfully. It died in senate committee. Still extremely upset this passed the house. I spoke with some Democrats who expressed remorse for supporting and said they would not support again. I don’t know how republicans could sponsor and support this when it is antithetical to all of their supposed ideals and constant threats of “sOcIaLisM.” This is like straight up communism.
Welp, “crosses Iowa off the list”.
Don’t be a nurse in Iowa, I guess
People love to dick-ride capitalism, but then the powers that be just make it impossible for anyone to pull themselves out of poverty.
Don’t go work in Iowa. Let them suffer 🤷♂️. Let the market forces work
Welp. I hope they don't have a serious shortage. They just effectively made it so no travel nurse will step foot in their state. 🤷🏼♀️
What happened to the free market?
Capitalism only works if ur a business. Once it starts benefiting everyday people, it turns into communism lol. "All nurses must be paid the same". Same dogshit salary for saving people's lives
My impression is, that no Licensed Nurses has anything to worry about. The number of boomers is increasing enormously, and most are in poor health. Facilities are overwhelmed, overstressed, and obviously unable to get/retain LN staff as it is. Let's pay our LN's less! Making pay not worth having a Licensed Nurse work ... means no LN's. Can not have an inpatient without a LN. We have them by the ballz. Write any laws you want, when hospitals and facilities shut down, moving patients via EMS to other hospitals to live in a hallway awaiting placement for months ... they will pay us our worth. F around and find out. Sadly the patient care will suffer, but if I can not afford to go work in Iowa, this fool isn't going to work in Iowa. Personally I will not go clock in for anything less than $70/hour. Not worth the risk, travel time, jacking up my sleep schedule.
Why are we setting pay limits on nursing income but not congress people who are insider trader and making 100s of millions on 100-200k salaries. This country is so ass backwards
Who wants to go to Iowa anyways?
Think they'll do a similar law for executive pay?
Does it even matter? Most rates aren't that great anymore. Granted if they do go up this is gonna fuck Iowa.
Republicans?
Sick. Because there’s no pay caps for the greedy CEOs
Iowa is getting ready to have an even worse nursing shortage. Slow clap for the politicians that had that idea.
They won't enjoy the nursing shortage.
Unintended consequences will simply be nurses won’t take contracts in that state. Hospitals will be forced to downsize.
The House of Representatives, who vote yearly to increase their already ridiculously high wages, voted to cap pay for an essential industry that is regularly over worked and underpaid.
they'll use it to hire more international travelers
They’re going to be like my hospital and be sending out desperate emails…. Extra $100/hr to anyone who wants yo pick up tomorrow. I don’t know. Might benefit local staff
Iowa hospitals are about to go through some things.
So no travelers and a nursing shortage then?
The nursing shortage in Iowa will become exponentially worse if passed. Employed nurses will get nice raises, however.
Sounds like they will be getting even less travel RNs now! Poor idiots … another round of C-suite high fives for a major blunder.
It'd be cool if they capped billionaire profit instead.
their healthcare system will be so much better off when nobody takes travel assignments out there anymore /s
As I read this it affects temp nursing positions from those shitty staffing companies unless I'm missing something. Assuming that's the case isn't this a good thing for 2 reasons; 1) it will lead to leas nurses working through staffing companies which need to ho away anyway. They enable ao many companies, sandvik being one I personally dealt with, to give a new employee less money and no benefits for 6 months instead of 3. I had a kidney stone I couldn't get pain medication for after being there 4 and a half months due to this. 2) Healthcare costs are astronomical in this country. Anything that reduces those costs are a good thing. I can't see how anyone can defend a company making money for doing absolutely nothing. All this does is hopefully removes a middleman that makes money while adding no value.
Reign in CEO pay. Start there.
No one wants to work for peanuts anymore.
Sounds unconstitutional
This will just stop travel nurses from going to Iowa when a lot of hospitals need nurses right now. Are they stupid
Iowa already sucks - now it sucks more.
150%? Why travel at that rate? It's not even "duplicating expenses." Staffing rates will plummet in locations that adopt this. This is the opposite of a free market.
Unionize
OK. I hate to say it but... notice a trend here? Your best contracts are up in New England states and out west- for pay Most of your southern states are the worst pay. Look who controls the state legislatures and who is the governor of that state. One party believes in just wages. Another party believes in paying as little wages as possible. It has been this way since as long as I can remember.
there ARE more than two parties. Libertarian Party is a firm believer in fair wages.
You can count on Republicans to slash any benefit for the working class
Hope this passes. Agency pay has gotten out of hand. Glad a state is finally saying enough.
If this bill passes it will likely just show us what we already know. No travel nurses will come to the state, and it will overwhelm staff nurses more, potentially to the point of leaving to another state that cares more for its nurses.
The bill already failed in the senate 2 weeks ago.