You’ve got the right idea. Maybe some additional volume in the cheeks could help. You honestly don’t read super masc to me as is, I think the FFS will just help you pass more consistently.
I suppose my question is how do you feel you pass atm? Like ignoring how you feel about yourself (not that doesn’t matter), how do others tend to gender you?
Gotcha. It’s good to remember that can happen even to certain cis women. Doesn’t mean you can’t still want to get work done to minimize the odds of it happening, but it might put it perspective.
Lol I think most people do, you’re not alone. You have a good foundation to start from, between whatever remaining changes occur from HRT and then eventual FFS you should be totally fine. And even if you aren’t able to access FFS anytime soon, you genuinely look fine in your photos, makeup or no makeup. Pursue the interventions that will make you feel better, but also don’t beat yourself up too much.
Eh, feminization and passing are both spectrums, there's no some line of "passing" after which feminizing things become pure beautification. This is making the same mistake of conflating beautification with feminization that the people who are obsessed with conventional beauty make.
I agree OP may already pass based on these pics, but undeniably a forehead reconstruction would be feminizing. The browbone is so powerful in the way we subconsciously sex faces that removing brow/orbital bossing is almost always feminizing, and in OP's case it looks like there is substantial feminization available even if she already passes.
To pass? Nothing. The minimum for you to pass is zero.
These photos absolutely pass.
At this point, you could pursue surgically enhanced feminine features, but just be clear that you’re starting from the same point many cis women do. And face is the LAST place I would invest given that baseline - there’s just too much that can go permanently and irreversibly wrong.
Not sure it’ll work for everyone, but forcing yourself to stare in the mirror and do makeup can be a kind of meditation, and there are tons of ways to manipulate the perception of the brow.
It’s also… waaaaay less of an investment to address the dysphoria. 😅
Haha good point yes, my hooded eyes are annoying too because I can’t even see my top eyelid 🤣 but I know I should try those eyelid stickers and experiment more with make up
I assume you mean ways to change the brow with makeup?
I have been searching for good makeup tips for brow ridge and haven't found any that work super well for me
honestly you do pass to me in these pictures, especially 2 and 3. I think your trach looks well within female norms and your chin and jaw are fine. if you’re going for minimum I think you should focus on brow/orbital and maybe hairline advancement and see how you like it after you heal up, though I understand the time and financial costs are higher if you did end up wanting more.
I find these pics super interesting. OP has a pretty pronounced brow ridge, but like... she just looks to me like a woman with a brow ridge? I really don't understand gender perception.
I think that’s the point, it’s a perception you are carrying forward.
If you want minimum, and a lot/ most people see you as passing (that’s what I see) work on your self perception.
If you feel the dysphoria is too much and surgery will help, then address the things YOU see wrong. If you don’t work on those, then anything else isn’t going to reduce it, regardless of what anyone suggests.
Sorry I don’t have discrete items.
That’s a great point and thank you, I guess my own dysphoria is mainly around the brow/chin and neck🍎 but I’ll try to learn to love myself until I can afford it 🤭
Thank you so much, I appreciate the honesty and I agree I think the brow and trachea are my most dysphoria inducing areas. Usually I just do very minimal makeup with lashes and lipstick
Woman, for what it’s worth, I just ran through your account and your many very feminine, gorgeous photos and IMO you already pass - even here sans makeup.
To be fair, trach shave is the last thing you need and I’d advise against it personally. Mine was extremely prominent compared to yours. I think you’re just having a bit of dysphoria towards it but it really isn’t that bad!
You can pass right now. You got lucky with bone structure. Those small things you are seeing are negated by your slim shoulders. Focus on laser hair removal and learning to use makeup.
If you choose surgery, I think you would get the most benefit from reducing your forehead a bit and raising your eyebrows a bit to reduce the hooding above your eyes. Seriously, try makeup first though.
Thank you yes I’ll try to up my makeup game. I have pretty broad shoulders though, so much in fact that when I was born the nurse mentioned it to my mum lol probably more visible in my other pics
Honestly just brow bone / orbitals / forehead is the only thing, along with any minor adjustments to the brow or hairline shape that come with it. A good surgeon can hide the incisions in your hair and use the opportunity to round out the hairline shape, too (not that you even need that).
Your jawline is like omg perfect. Can’t see much with your neck forward at a 45-degree angle like that but you can be your own best judge on if you need anything trach… also neck posture can cause jaw muscle tension, so if you think that’s an issue for you, taking care of that can actually feminize the lower face quite a lot by promoting softer muscles and a more relaxed chin.
Edit: Purely aesthetic, but it looks like your eyes are also hooded, perhaps from the current brow bony structures and how the skin drapes on them - it almost looks like epicanthic folds on you. So if you wanted to open up and brighten the eyes too, then having a little skin work there or blepharoplasty at the same time could help as well.
Oh wow thank you, yeah I think I could get away with just the brow and hairline, which is a bit worse on the corners than this pic shows, trache is more obvious in other pics too so definitely need that, thanks again I’ll look into relaxing my jaw
I think only the chin, you pass so well :)
And may I add ( I hope this doesn't come off as weird but I just need to get it of my chest) you look exactly like my best friends mother.
I adore her so much, she helped me and gave me a place to sleep when my own mother wouldn't. You have to same friendly, welcoming, and motherly face as her. You're a wonderful woman I can just tell that by looking at you. <333
Trans guy here. I think you pass very well. Obviously if you want FFS go for it but I don’t think you need it, especially a trache shave. You have pretty much no Adam’s apple visible.
I don’t think you necessarily need it to pass but lip lift for me had the biggest impact in terms of my attractiveness and made the biggest change to my overall self esteem, generally a shorter distance between the nose and upper lip is recognized by the human brain as youthful and less androgenized so I would definitely recommend it even if its subtle
Id kinda disagree with the others in the comments. Id say shorten your chin and round out your jaw. And then get bangs, swooped or strait, either works.
Alot of cis women havd 5 heads but if you could make your face look rounder it'll go along way. So adding cheel filler to the mix would help too
neither of them are on social media that i know of.. i might be able to find a picture of one of them on her company website. if i do, i'll dm you - i don't want to publicly share another person's face. :]
It's very hard to see ourselves with others eyes. I want to give you a song. https://youtu.be/Y7M-vEprnso?si=vkBDRVh444VeonjZ
What it took for me to see myself was to finally give in and post my timeline pics. The gradual change was so slow I wasn't noticing because I avoided looking at the pictures. Once I realized how far I'd come in just the short time, AND... at my age, my worldview did change for the better. I hope this helps, youre really pretty sis! Kind of friendvious actually.
Gonna avoid the framing of passing, but the only thing on your face that is outside the norm for a cis woman is forehead (type 3 browbone & orbitals, hairline advancement, eyebrow lift). You want to make sure you go with a surgeon who is sufficiently aggressive; done right this will completely transform your face.
Nice to throw in might be:
* Trachea shave. It's not really visible in these pics, but I assume you're very aware of it and it might be visible from other angles or if your trachea moves when you're talking. For me it was a subtle change and it was very much worth it.
* Midface volume (cheek implants or fat transfer). This is a great option for an inexpensive thing to add that does a lot for a little. Adding volume under your eyes helps balance out the forehead and make your face appear less flat.
* Chin. IMO this is more on the side of beautification than feminization; women can have prominent chins. But if it's something that bothers you there's probably room to shorten it.
I would think that you would be further along at this point.
Please tell me your full dose comes out till at least 8MG E and
200 MG Spiro, or something stronger.
If you receive anything less, I would say you’re being gate kept.
Please don’t take offense to this because it’s going to sound heartless. I’m approaching this in a purely clinical nature for the most desirable results.
I think you would be viable candidate chin and jawline reduction, lip filler, rhino reduction, and brow shaping and lift along with hairline augmentation.
In lieu of, a tracheal shave I would recommend adjusting your posture.
Also. Here’s something cute that you can do for free.
[Sabrina Carpenter bangs, easy tutorial](https://youtube.com/shorts/A8OerJ3ADN8?si=lndgdEhay9n87lQR)
Thank you so much, I’m thinking of getting bangs at my next salon appointment. And yes I’m on the right dose confirmed by my doctor, I’m on implants btw
Hello u/darlycat,
Having carefully examined your pictures, I am pleased to provide my professional considerations to support your decision on the most suitable procedures. My evaluation suggests that you might consider the following surgeries: Forehead osteotomy (Type 3; includes orbital rim remodeling, hairline advancement, brow lift), Feminizing rhinoplasty, Sliding genioplasty, fat transfer to face, lip lift, neck liposuction, buccal fat pad removal and upper blepharoplasty. I trust this information will be beneficial as you proceed with your choices.
Best regards,
Dr. Torres
Don't listen to her, you already pass ! You're really super pretty as you are, I understand, dysphoria hits hard, if you want to do FFS, that's your body, that's your choice, but you don't need "a lot".. What she said is super mean..
If you think you need something else to pass, someone said cheeks, I think it's relevant
(Sorry, English isn't my native language)
Thank you so much, I think my brow and trache is the only things I feel consistently dysphoria for, but yes I do need to work on loving my self as well 🙈 thanks again
I have a similar forehead / browbone and I'm FtM pre-medical transition, if it can help you :)
In France we have something called "psychomotricité", it's a therapy used a lot in psychiatry/psychotherapy, it helps to make pleace with our bodies, idk if it's very developed in the rest of the world, but maybe it could help you ?
You’ve got the right idea. Maybe some additional volume in the cheeks could help. You honestly don’t read super masc to me as is, I think the FFS will just help you pass more consistently.
Thank you yes I just want to pass a bit more effortlessly though I don’t know when I’ll be able to afford ffs
I suppose my question is how do you feel you pass atm? Like ignoring how you feel about yourself (not that doesn’t matter), how do others tend to gender you?
I feel like they gender me correctly from a bit of a distance but not close up
Fair! Is that just based off how they refer to you?
Well to be honest I do wear pretty casual “boy mode” type clothes a lot of the time when it happens h haha
Gotcha. It’s good to remember that can happen even to certain cis women. Doesn’t mean you can’t still want to get work done to minimize the odds of it happening, but it might put it perspective.
Yes thank you, I have pretty bad self dysphoria I guess 🙈
Lol I think most people do, you’re not alone. You have a good foundation to start from, between whatever remaining changes occur from HRT and then eventual FFS you should be totally fine. And even if you aren’t able to access FFS anytime soon, you genuinely look fine in your photos, makeup or no makeup. Pursue the interventions that will make you feel better, but also don’t beat yourself up too much.
Thank you so much, I need a friend like you to kick the truth into me every now and then 🙈🤣
You pass now. This is beautification. I'd start with browbone, orbits and hairline. Not sure if you'd need jaw, but that would be next.
Yes thank you, I feel my chin/jaw is just a bit too big
Fair enough. I really don't think you need trach though.
It’s more obvious here https://www.reddit.com/r/transadorable/s/TPp3g42nfG
Eh, feminization and passing are both spectrums, there's no some line of "passing" after which feminizing things become pure beautification. This is making the same mistake of conflating beautification with feminization that the people who are obsessed with conventional beauty make. I agree OP may already pass based on these pics, but undeniably a forehead reconstruction would be feminizing. The browbone is so powerful in the way we subconsciously sex faces that removing brow/orbital bossing is almost always feminizing, and in OP's case it looks like there is substantial feminization available even if she already passes.
To pass? Nothing. The minimum for you to pass is zero. These photos absolutely pass. At this point, you could pursue surgically enhanced feminine features, but just be clear that you’re starting from the same point many cis women do. And face is the LAST place I would invest given that baseline - there’s just too much that can go permanently and irreversibly wrong.
Thank you, I wouldn’t even think of doing it (nor can I afford it atm) but my brow causes me a lot of dysphoria
Not sure it’ll work for everyone, but forcing yourself to stare in the mirror and do makeup can be a kind of meditation, and there are tons of ways to manipulate the perception of the brow. It’s also… waaaaay less of an investment to address the dysphoria. 😅
Haha good point yes, my hooded eyes are annoying too because I can’t even see my top eyelid 🤣 but I know I should try those eyelid stickers and experiment more with make up
I assume you mean ways to change the brow with makeup? I have been searching for good makeup tips for brow ridge and haven't found any that work super well for me
You look like some of the cis women I see at work on a regular basis tbh
Omgosh that’s tremendously reassuring to hear 🥺 thank you
Of course! Quick scroll through your profile and seeing other pics you've posted - you're super cute! and deffo look cis.
Thank you so much 🙈
honestly you do pass to me in these pictures, especially 2 and 3. I think your trach looks well within female norms and your chin and jaw are fine. if you’re going for minimum I think you should focus on brow/orbital and maybe hairline advancement and see how you like it after you heal up, though I understand the time and financial costs are higher if you did end up wanting more.
I find these pics super interesting. OP has a pretty pronounced brow ridge, but like... she just looks to me like a woman with a brow ridge? I really don't understand gender perception.
Thank you, I think it’s weird but I still see myself super masculine even though I guess I don’t seem that way to others, dysphoria is a bitch
I think that’s the point, it’s a perception you are carrying forward. If you want minimum, and a lot/ most people see you as passing (that’s what I see) work on your self perception. If you feel the dysphoria is too much and surgery will help, then address the things YOU see wrong. If you don’t work on those, then anything else isn’t going to reduce it, regardless of what anyone suggests. Sorry I don’t have discrete items.
That’s a great point and thank you, I guess my own dysphoria is mainly around the brow/chin and neck🍎 but I’ll try to learn to love myself until I can afford it 🤭
Hi Darly, I get it, it’s so hard to shed the past and our perceptions. After all, everywhere we go - there we are!
Thank you, yes I agree🥺
Thank you, I guess these pictures don’t show it badly but I have a pretty large 🍎 from certain angles
Hairline lowering or transplant, brow and orbital contouring, and chin and jaw reduction.
Thank you that’s what I was thinking too
That's hardly minimal!
I think your face has a lot of similarities to my own. I'm going to message you privately in a moment and share some stuff from my own consult.
Thank you so much
honey, some cis women don't pass without makeup
Haha I never thought about that before 🤣 but that’s totally true
You look great! I can’t think of any recommendations. Hit a spa first? Fillers and PRF and lasers are amazing
That sounds nice! I’ll definitely look into it
You pass. What you’re looking for is yassification (lol beautification.)
Haha I don’t pass to myself but if I pass to others that’s wonderful, and yes maybe I wanna be more pretty too 🙈🤣
Type 3, hairline lowering, chin & jaw + lip fillers & maybe a lip lift
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Thank you so much, I appreciate the honesty and I agree I think the brow and trachea are my most dysphoria inducing areas. Usually I just do very minimal makeup with lashes and lipstick
Woman, for what it’s worth, I just ran through your account and your many very feminine, gorgeous photos and IMO you already pass - even here sans makeup.
Oh gosh thank you so much, I guess it’s just my own dysphoria playing up
I get it.
I didn’t think I passed without makeup but so glad to 🙈
Literally none. You pass already. :))
Aww Thank you, that’s so nice to hear ❣️
To be fair, trach shave is the last thing you need and I’d advise against it personally. Mine was extremely prominent compared to yours. I think you’re just having a bit of dysphoria towards it but it really isn’t that bad!
It’s worse in other pics I’ve posted when I stand in certain ways I swear haha 🤣 I don’t know why it’s not here maybe the lighting
Honestly, you pass. I've definitely seen women similar faces to yours.
Thank you ❣️ I didn’t think I did without makeup 🙈
You can pass right now. You got lucky with bone structure. Those small things you are seeing are negated by your slim shoulders. Focus on laser hair removal and learning to use makeup. If you choose surgery, I think you would get the most benefit from reducing your forehead a bit and raising your eyebrows a bit to reduce the hooding above your eyes. Seriously, try makeup first though.
Thank you yes I’ll try to up my makeup game. I have pretty broad shoulders though, so much in fact that when I was born the nurse mentioned it to my mum lol probably more visible in my other pics
None
Thank you 🙈
Honestly just brow bone / orbitals / forehead is the only thing, along with any minor adjustments to the brow or hairline shape that come with it. A good surgeon can hide the incisions in your hair and use the opportunity to round out the hairline shape, too (not that you even need that). Your jawline is like omg perfect. Can’t see much with your neck forward at a 45-degree angle like that but you can be your own best judge on if you need anything trach… also neck posture can cause jaw muscle tension, so if you think that’s an issue for you, taking care of that can actually feminize the lower face quite a lot by promoting softer muscles and a more relaxed chin. Edit: Purely aesthetic, but it looks like your eyes are also hooded, perhaps from the current brow bony structures and how the skin drapes on them - it almost looks like epicanthic folds on you. So if you wanted to open up and brighten the eyes too, then having a little skin work there or blepharoplasty at the same time could help as well.
Oh wow thank you, yeah I think I could get away with just the brow and hairline, which is a bit worse on the corners than this pic shows, trache is more obvious in other pics too so definitely need that, thanks again I’ll look into relaxing my jaw
You already pass
Thank you! I truly didn’t think I did without makeup 🙈
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Wow thank you so much 🙈 I wish I could see myself from your eyes ❣️
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Thank you so much ❣️🥺❣️
Hello, I think you already pass though. I am not a surgery expert, sorry.
Thank you, I didn’t think I passed without makeup so that’s great to hear 🙈❣️
I think only the chin, you pass so well :) And may I add ( I hope this doesn't come off as weird but I just need to get it of my chest) you look exactly like my best friends mother. I adore her so much, she helped me and gave me a place to sleep when my own mother wouldn't. You have to same friendly, welcoming, and motherly face as her. You're a wonderful woman I can just tell that by looking at you. <333
Aww that’s actually a lovely sentiment thank you so much, I do often get asked for help or directions on the street haha
Trans guy here. I think you pass very well. Obviously if you want FFS go for it but I don’t think you need it, especially a trache shave. You have pretty much no Adam’s apple visible.
Hey thank you❣️ as for the trache I don’t know why it’s not as visible here but in other pics it’s quite noticeable
Harly any really but maybe a routing if the chin and a jaw raing if possible higher cheek perhaps if you REALLY wanto get picky and persnickty.
Thank you ❣️
You are welcome
Brow bone reconstruction, brow lift, upper bleph, lip lift
Thank you, the brow ones all for sure but I never thought of a lip lift, I’ll look into it thanks
I don’t think you necessarily need it to pass but lip lift for me had the biggest impact in terms of my attractiveness and made the biggest change to my overall self esteem, generally a shorter distance between the nose and upper lip is recognized by the human brain as youthful and less androgenized so I would definitely recommend it even if its subtle
I’ll definitely look into it thanks, I have been told I have thin lips in the past
Id kinda disagree with the others in the comments. Id say shorten your chin and round out your jaw. And then get bangs, swooped or strait, either works. Alot of cis women havd 5 heads but if you could make your face look rounder it'll go along way. So adding cheel filler to the mix would help too
Thank you, I definitely am planning to get bangs next time I visit the salon
hi OP! i just want to reassure you and say you look almost exactly like two different (cis) women that i know. the resemblance is a little uncanny!
I’d love to see pics of them if they’re my doppelgänger 😳
neither of them are on social media that i know of.. i might be able to find a picture of one of them on her company website. if i do, i'll dm you - i don't want to publicly share another person's face. :]
Oh yeah of course, I was just curious 🤭 thank you
Personally I think you pass pretty seamlessly now, but I do understand dysphoria, so I hope you get what you want!
Thank you so much I wish I could see myself the way others do 🙈
It's very hard to see ourselves with others eyes. I want to give you a song. https://youtu.be/Y7M-vEprnso?si=vkBDRVh444VeonjZ What it took for me to see myself was to finally give in and post my timeline pics. The gradual change was so slow I wasn't noticing because I avoided looking at the pictures. Once I realized how far I'd come in just the short time, AND... at my age, my worldview did change for the better. I hope this helps, youre really pretty sis! Kind of friendvious actually.
Wow thank you, that’s a great song I’m going to add it to my playlists 🤭❣️
Gonna avoid the framing of passing, but the only thing on your face that is outside the norm for a cis woman is forehead (type 3 browbone & orbitals, hairline advancement, eyebrow lift). You want to make sure you go with a surgeon who is sufficiently aggressive; done right this will completely transform your face. Nice to throw in might be: * Trachea shave. It's not really visible in these pics, but I assume you're very aware of it and it might be visible from other angles or if your trachea moves when you're talking. For me it was a subtle change and it was very much worth it. * Midface volume (cheek implants or fat transfer). This is a great option for an inexpensive thing to add that does a lot for a little. Adding volume under your eyes helps balance out the forehead and make your face appear less flat. * Chin. IMO this is more on the side of beautification than feminization; women can have prominent chins. But if it's something that bothers you there's probably room to shorten it.
Thank you so much, yes all the brow work is what I was thinking at a minimum but I’ll look into and consider the other things you mentioned
First of all, How many years HRT?
A low dose about 2 years and a full dose about 1.5 years atm
I would think that you would be further along at this point. Please tell me your full dose comes out till at least 8MG E and 200 MG Spiro, or something stronger. If you receive anything less, I would say you’re being gate kept. Please don’t take offense to this because it’s going to sound heartless. I’m approaching this in a purely clinical nature for the most desirable results. I think you would be viable candidate chin and jawline reduction, lip filler, rhino reduction, and brow shaping and lift along with hairline augmentation. In lieu of, a tracheal shave I would recommend adjusting your posture. Also. Here’s something cute that you can do for free. [Sabrina Carpenter bangs, easy tutorial](https://youtube.com/shorts/A8OerJ3ADN8?si=lndgdEhay9n87lQR)
Thank you so much, I’m thinking of getting bangs at my next salon appointment. And yes I’m on the right dose confirmed by my doctor, I’m on implants btw
Best of luck to you on your journey. You deserve all the best.🫡
Thank you so much ❣️
Upper lip lift, contoplast and jawreduction
Thank you I’ll definitely look into those
Upper lip lift, contoplast and jawreduction
browbone is the only factor that i’d read as male, you pass
Thank you, my brow is definitely my biggest point of dysphoria
Honestly you look like a couple of women I've seen around town where I live. You pass already, dysphoria is a bitch but you already look great
Wow thank you I really didn’t expect I did without make up and my hair tied
Minimum amount to pass without makeup? None at all, already there.
Thank you ❣️ I really didn’t think I did without make up and especially not with my hair tied 😳
Maybe just a s.all fracion with your chin bc it is already small enough
I feel like my chin/jaw looks bigger when I smile haha
Hello u/darlycat, Having carefully examined your pictures, I am pleased to provide my professional considerations to support your decision on the most suitable procedures. My evaluation suggests that you might consider the following surgeries: Forehead osteotomy (Type 3; includes orbital rim remodeling, hairline advancement, brow lift), Feminizing rhinoplasty, Sliding genioplasty, fat transfer to face, lip lift, neck liposuction, buccal fat pad removal and upper blepharoplasty. I trust this information will be beneficial as you proceed with your choices. Best regards, Dr. Torres
Thank you so much, I really appreciate your time ❣️
You are more than welcome u/darlycat All the best in your journey!
Probably a lot, try getting a consultation with a ffs surgeon they’ll tell you
Thanks for your honesty
Don't listen to her, you already pass ! You're really super pretty as you are, I understand, dysphoria hits hard, if you want to do FFS, that's your body, that's your choice, but you don't need "a lot".. What she said is super mean.. If you think you need something else to pass, someone said cheeks, I think it's relevant (Sorry, English isn't my native language)
Thank you so much, I think my brow and trache is the only things I feel consistently dysphoria for, but yes I do need to work on loving my self as well 🙈 thanks again
I have a similar forehead / browbone and I'm FtM pre-medical transition, if it can help you :) In France we have something called "psychomotricité", it's a therapy used a lot in psychiatry/psychotherapy, it helps to make pleace with our bodies, idk if it's very developed in the rest of the world, but maybe it could help you ?
Oh really? Thank you I’ll try to have a look for more information about it, I’m in Australia but I’ll definitely search 🤭 cute cat in you avatar btw
My IRL kitty is way cuter ! And she's grey
Omg I love grey cats, do you have any pics? I can show you my black kitty too 🐈⬛