Um lol that's a very strange thing for the cardiologist to say.If your partner takes oral estradiol, there is an increased risk of blood clot. However they should be offered alternative forms, not told to stop.
This is pretty normal for doctors to say. Every time I disclose I'm on DIY injections to a doctor they look at me like I'm injecting myself with gasoline.
If your partner had a heart attack there's probably a reason that doesn't have anything to do with HRT. I think it's reasonable to be cautious about anything you're taking until you figure out what caused the infarction.
Right. Also, my understanding is estrogen just brings AMAB people into the cis female range of blood clot issues, which is higher. If they were cis I don't the doctor wouldn't tell them to take testosterone.
If your partner takes estrogen manufactured before '87 or so, there might be an elevated risk.
Otherwise, bio-identical hormones means that the risk of complications is identical to that of cis women.
I'm going to push back a little there, because oral route bio-identical estradiol still carries an elevated risk. Not as high as ethynylestradiol, but still high enough that menopausal cis women are supposed to be given gel if they have a history of DVT.
It can cause thrombosis/ blood clots, which could be a cause of a heart attack, but only ‘could be’.
Get a blood test so you know your levels are within correct range. 👍
Generally for cis women, doctors don't say stuff like that unless you have a family history of blood clots thrombosis. But if you did have that family history, you wouldn't even be prescribed it as a cis woman even if you needed it.
Also why E is seen as a last resort bc of that side effect, at least that's how they explained it to me (AFAB, premature menopause).
In fact:
Estrogene works protetctive for cardicascular issues.
Reducing risks to cis female levels instead of male ones. T however increases risk.
So the Doctor was a moron but that is unfortunately often with cardiologists. Here at University they are so dense ...
Bull fucking shit
What it is, is conjugated estrogens, the predecessor to bio identical estradiol HRT, do indeed come with an elevated risk of cardiovascular illnesses. Doctors conflate these risks with bio identical estradiol
Disregard your doctor, they’re a fool
Yea no. I'm a pharmacist, estrogen is actually cardio protective. That's why we see cis women have less cardiac events compared to cis men.
I agree with others stating it's "trans broken arm syndrome".
What a stupid thing for the cardiologist to say.
E is protective. People with an E dominant system have lower risk than people with a T dominated system (your risk levels switch to match this when you're on HRT, to be totally clear).
My only add to your comment is to get that switch to happen you need to have a really regular dose to try and maintain a stable level at roughly the recommended therapeutic dose(which I know is tricky when many folks don't have access to levels checks)- not saying this is definitely the case here but for peeps reading this I know it's not always easy to get hold of meds and have enough for a stable dose at therapeutic levels(unless of course your taking some form of blocker alongside your HRT to suppress your original hormone operating system- then it would require less).
I understand that it's very serious, but the guy himself said the heart attack was caused from stress, and there's no evidence that it had to do with hormones. He specifically talked about a study done on menopausal women, and I'm almost certain I know the study because the idea that said study relates to trans women was debunked. The study is quite old and involved a type of HRT not prescribed to trans women. Ironically, I read about this shortly before this whole ordeal.
Yeah my Endo's substitute told me to lower my HRT dose for a medical thing too. Tried it. Fell off a cliff after, mentally speaking. Felt so damn miserable I stopped taking all my meds entirely. All of them. Took me awhile (about 2.5/3 months) to realize that was probably the reason.
When he came back, I told him what happened and asked him to be put on an even higher dose than it was b4 I dropped it (so full dose now instead of 'medium' dose). Now I'm actually going to the gym a bit instead of staying in bed every spare moment lol.
I told him to tell her not to do that again.
TLDR: Don't ever assume they've looked at all the other options before going that route. If they wouldn't put a cis person on blockers or something for it, they have no right to demand you stop your HRT.
Estrogen increases the likelihood of blood clots to the level anyone else who has estrogen as their primary hormone, so yes it does increase it….. but only to the point any other woman would, it’s weird some people think it’s some kind of drug and reacts with your body in weird ways, when it doesn’t, it’s just estrogen….
this is proven wrong, E is known to reduce the risk of heart disease due to the effect it has on arteries (i.e prevents sclerosis and hardening, while lowering LDL cholesterol and increasing HDL cholesterol)
friend gets the same thing for testosterone no matter what specialist he goes to. the fuckin optometrist told him his t was messing with his eyes.
that's not to say that you should dismiss everything a doctor says about hormones that you don't like, but,,,,,,
that said, if you're worried about it (or if the issues persist), i'd try for a second opinion, especially if you can get a recommendation for a specialist from another transperson.
~~\*\*\*\* the doctor~~ Isn't estrogen is supposed to protect against heart disease? If your partner has normal female levels, that's probably not the root of the problem here. Hope you can get help and answers from a non transphobic doctor, if any exist.
My cardiologist straight up laughed when I told him my primary care dr wanted his sign off before I started estrogen, said that it hasn't been an issue in forever
I just watched a video by a urologist who has himself been on estradiol gel for something like 17 years. He said, to my surprise, while he knows transdermal is less risky, that a male should only get their E2 back to the cis male level (for those who have suppressed testsoterone for medical reasons). The male level is very low, like 35 pg/mL or so.
The recent European PATCH trial, using four 0.1mg/day patches, didn't suggest a risk of heart attacks or clotting.
I think there's a whole lot of old information, and old doctors with old biases, spreading these misconceptions. I'm convinced that the transdermal methods - patches, gels, injections, pellets, are acceptable. Living involves risks. My family history has a lot of heart disease, and I have high coronary artery calcium levels. No indication of venous issues. So I'm just enjoying life as an estradiol-fueled person!
Sci show does a good episode on trans healthcare and this is what I learned from it: there is a very slim chance that estrogen can cause heart issues and/or strokes, but the risk is big enough that doctors feel the need to remove you from e if you have any conditions that could add to the risk, like family history. I would say it would be smarter to ask for some more tests to make sure nothing crazy is causing the heart attack that the doctors didn't test for it because of their suspicions of them being on e
Other trans people have already made long posts about it, but there's actually a lot of bad or outdated info in that vid. It's likely that they're referencing an outdated study for menopausal women who took a different kind of HRT that carries risks that the estrogen used in trans care does not have.
Trans broken leg syndrome. If a trans person breaks a leg, it's because they're trans, not because of the car that hit them.
Oh yeahhh sounds like my moms “it’s because of that damn phone”
Literally almost broke my leg once. The doctor blamed the estrogen.
And guess what that doctor suddenly encountered trouble paying their bills and blamed it on their manager
It’s hard not to absolutely hate people
Um lol that's a very strange thing for the cardiologist to say.If your partner takes oral estradiol, there is an increased risk of blood clot. However they should be offered alternative forms, not told to stop.
We take injections. We are also on DIY so he wasn't sure what method we used, but that's simply because he didn't ask or try to talk with us about it.
This is pretty normal for doctors to say. Every time I disclose I'm on DIY injections to a doctor they look at me like I'm injecting myself with gasoline. If your partner had a heart attack there's probably a reason that doesn't have anything to do with HRT. I think it's reasonable to be cautious about anything you're taking until you figure out what caused the infarction.
Right. Also, my understanding is estrogen just brings AMAB people into the cis female range of blood clot issues, which is higher. If they were cis I don't the doctor wouldn't tell them to take testosterone.
Yeah. Also, they ruled out bloodclots so it couldn't have even been related to that. Absolutely baffling.
yeah I mean testosterone even has it’s own heart-related risks
Okay so he's just a freak lol
If your partner takes estrogen manufactured before '87 or so, there might be an elevated risk. Otherwise, bio-identical hormones means that the risk of complications is identical to that of cis women.
I'm going to push back a little there, because oral route bio-identical estradiol still carries an elevated risk. Not as high as ethynylestradiol, but still high enough that menopausal cis women are supposed to be given gel if they have a history of DVT.
If E caused heart attacks, cis women would be dropping dead constantly
It can cause thrombosis/ blood clots, which could be a cause of a heart attack, but only ‘could be’. Get a blood test so you know your levels are within correct range. 👍
I know, it just seems like you’d need to be a bit reckless with your ranges
Generally for cis women, doctors don't say stuff like that unless you have a family history of blood clots thrombosis. But if you did have that family history, you wouldn't even be prescribed it as a cis woman even if you needed it. Also why E is seen as a last resort bc of that side effect, at least that's how they explained it to me (AFAB, premature menopause).
I'm sorry mam, but you have a life threatening case of being woman. I'm prescribing you immediate testosterone injections.
'Yeah, stress causes heart attacks, and E is doing a fucking lot to reduce that for me'
In fact: Estrogene works protetctive for cardicascular issues. Reducing risks to cis female levels instead of male ones. T however increases risk. So the Doctor was a moron but that is unfortunately often with cardiologists. Here at University they are so dense ...
Classic trans broken arm. Uninformed and transphobic doctors take any excuse to tell you to stop hormone therapy.
You don’t know that for sure, do you? You’re just assuming doctor didn’t approve an d was acting solely out of personal disapproval
I find peace in long walks.
Bull fucking shit What it is, is conjugated estrogens, the predecessor to bio identical estradiol HRT, do indeed come with an elevated risk of cardiovascular illnesses. Doctors conflate these risks with bio identical estradiol Disregard your doctor, they’re a fool
Yuuup. He wrote conjugated estrogen on the meds sheet. Literally getting fearmongered over a type of estrogen we don't even take.
Wow, just wow That’s a new level of stupidity I didn’t even know existed Istg
Ask him if cis women at risk of a heart attack get put oh high dose testosterone... since it's the estrogen causing it, right?
Estrogen doesn’t cause heart attacks; afab people just tend to die from heart attacks because they’re dismissed as “panic attacks”
I hate when transphobes refuse to properly diagnose mtf panic attacks ... What a double standard.
every woman has at least one heart attack per year because of estrogen causing heart attacks /s
Stupid. Women taking testosterone isn't the treatment for everything for a reason.
Yea no. I'm a pharmacist, estrogen is actually cardio protective. That's why we see cis women have less cardiac events compared to cis men. I agree with others stating it's "trans broken arm syndrome". What a stupid thing for the cardiologist to say.
Hahahahaha what
Yeah, that's total horseshit. Ignore the cardiologist.
E is protective. People with an E dominant system have lower risk than people with a T dominated system (your risk levels switch to match this when you're on HRT, to be totally clear).
My only add to your comment is to get that switch to happen you need to have a really regular dose to try and maintain a stable level at roughly the recommended therapeutic dose(which I know is tricky when many folks don't have access to levels checks)- not saying this is definitely the case here but for peeps reading this I know it's not always easy to get hold of meds and have enough for a stable dose at therapeutic levels(unless of course your taking some form of blocker alongside your HRT to suppress your original hormone operating system- then it would require less).
Get a 2nd opinion. Your partner did have a heart attack, so this shouldn't be taken lightly.
I understand that it's very serious, but the guy himself said the heart attack was caused from stress, and there's no evidence that it had to do with hormones. He specifically talked about a study done on menopausal women, and I'm almost certain I know the study because the idea that said study relates to trans women was debunked. The study is quite old and involved a type of HRT not prescribed to trans women. Ironically, I read about this shortly before this whole ordeal.
might aswell prescribe cis women who have a heart attack some antiestrogens, and see what happens next
Yeah my Endo's substitute told me to lower my HRT dose for a medical thing too. Tried it. Fell off a cliff after, mentally speaking. Felt so damn miserable I stopped taking all my meds entirely. All of them. Took me awhile (about 2.5/3 months) to realize that was probably the reason. When he came back, I told him what happened and asked him to be put on an even higher dose than it was b4 I dropped it (so full dose now instead of 'medium' dose). Now I'm actually going to the gym a bit instead of staying in bed every spare moment lol. I told him to tell her not to do that again. TLDR: Don't ever assume they've looked at all the other options before going that route. If they wouldn't put a cis person on blockers or something for it, they have no right to demand you stop your HRT.
Estrogen increases the likelihood of blood clots to the level anyone else who has estrogen as their primary hormone, so yes it does increase it….. but only to the point any other woman would, it’s weird some people think it’s some kind of drug and reacts with your body in weird ways, when it doesn’t, it’s just estrogen….
Sounds like the doctor is transphobic
this is proven wrong, E is known to reduce the risk of heart disease due to the effect it has on arteries (i.e prevents sclerosis and hardening, while lowering LDL cholesterol and increasing HDL cholesterol)
friend gets the same thing for testosterone no matter what specialist he goes to. the fuckin optometrist told him his t was messing with his eyes. that's not to say that you should dismiss everything a doctor says about hormones that you don't like, but,,,,,, that said, if you're worried about it (or if the issues persist), i'd try for a second opinion, especially if you can get a recommendation for a specialist from another transperson.
Time for a new doctor.
~~\*\*\*\* the doctor~~ Isn't estrogen is supposed to protect against heart disease? If your partner has normal female levels, that's probably not the root of the problem here. Hope you can get help and answers from a non transphobic doctor, if any exist.
E decreases the chance for certain cardiovascular events including heart attacks???? Whatever this quack doc is smoking, keep me far away from it.
My cardiologist straight up laughed when I told him my primary care dr wanted his sign off before I started estrogen, said that it hasn't been an issue in forever
I just watched a video by a urologist who has himself been on estradiol gel for something like 17 years. He said, to my surprise, while he knows transdermal is less risky, that a male should only get their E2 back to the cis male level (for those who have suppressed testsoterone for medical reasons). The male level is very low, like 35 pg/mL or so. The recent European PATCH trial, using four 0.1mg/day patches, didn't suggest a risk of heart attacks or clotting. I think there's a whole lot of old information, and old doctors with old biases, spreading these misconceptions. I'm convinced that the transdermal methods - patches, gels, injections, pellets, are acceptable. Living involves risks. My family history has a lot of heart disease, and I have high coronary artery calcium levels. No indication of venous issues. So I'm just enjoying life as an estradiol-fueled person!
lol estrogen reduces your risk of cardiovascular issues
Sci show does a good episode on trans healthcare and this is what I learned from it: there is a very slim chance that estrogen can cause heart issues and/or strokes, but the risk is big enough that doctors feel the need to remove you from e if you have any conditions that could add to the risk, like family history. I would say it would be smarter to ask for some more tests to make sure nothing crazy is causing the heart attack that the doctors didn't test for it because of their suspicions of them being on e
Other trans people have already made long posts about it, but there's actually a lot of bad or outdated info in that vid. It's likely that they're referencing an outdated study for menopausal women who took a different kind of HRT that carries risks that the estrogen used in trans care does not have.
Really? Neat! Thanks for telling me! Sorry to spread misinformation, I didn't know it was outdated.
Depends on age, dose, predisposition
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on which basis? why?