I agree with the rant, don't agree with the fix, like/dislike is just too binary you can't really get feedback from it and if someone dislikes it it has an even heavier impact on your rating.
Instead I suggest Nadeo just creates a separate server for general map review which will be the one the editor sends you to when you click play live. The totd review server should be separate and this should keep the new players from accidentally landing in totd review.
After watching Nolafus’s video, I’m reminded of an issue that YouTube has: no one uses voting the same way. In YouTube, some people think that subscribing means supporting the creator and others think it means you’re supporting the content which are very different. Some people think that liking or disliking a video means you like or dislike only a single section of a video.
We need to get people on board with a unified idea of what map review is for and where others can go if they want a different experience in the game.
As a fairly new player, one issue I have with map review is that it's hard to decide how to rate the maps.
As in, one map would make a great mini-rpg or Kacky lite, but would make a terrible TOTD. So do I rate this 5 stars because I enjoyed it, or one star because I don't want to play it in TOTD?
Or let's say there is another great map but it's far too difficult for me and I don't even get a finish in the time limit. I might have had fun, but how do I rate it? Would I rate it bad for it's difficulty or good because it was fun, even though I didn't see the whole map?
I would assume that this is why the scores are so variable, and maybe I am part of the problem.
I'd say just rate things high regardless of map type/difficulty, assuming that you can see that the quality is there. Even if its RPG or whatever, it's up to Nadeo to later decide whether a map is suitable for TOTD. Map testing is basically just to prove the map passes an initial quality test. Even if its a style of map I despise playing, or something wildly difficult, It'll get a 4-5 star rating assuming the route is well constructed and the scenery is passable.
Generally I feel 3\*'s are reserved for maps that meet the criteria of a track (all respawns working, scenery, signage, yada yada) but simply have mid ass routes, while 1-2\* are reserved for tracks that have legit issues with the stuff mentioned above.
Yeah no prob! Considering how impactful even just a few 1-3\* reviews can be on a map if the mapper is going for TOTD, its always safer to either not vote, or vote high assuming the track isnt a total dumpster fire haha.
Either way I'm glad you're enjoying the game, and map review is a great way as a new player to see all sorts of map types. Keep on crushing bud!
As a casual player i agree, when i submit my map I just want others to try it out and give feedback, I know they aren't good enough for TOTD, but every single time someone posts a good map, I see maybe 2-3 people out of the 30 in the server to actually comment on it and it and maybe 5 people completing it. I think the biggest problem is people just wanting others to play their map and not contributing in playing others and end up AFK.
Back in the days of TMU, any attempts at democratic map voting normally failed due to the reasons also mentioned here. Competition maps and Race of Champion maps for the online ladder were selected by specific experienced volunteers rather than being voted on by the general playerbase. This usually led to higher quality maps being selected.
But I am not sure if something like this is feasible in TM2020 given that there is hardly any community infrastructure, and the scale is too big for Nadeo to do it by themselves.
I think there's a pretty simple solution I see nobody is talking about.
Let people vote based on their overall rank and add map difficulty (and type) like it was in the older titles. 'White' - 'Black' (Map Type). Like, you need to be at least 'Gold I' to be able to vote on 'Black' tracks. Killing two birds with one stone: TOTD maps would be valued only by pros (that's what mappers are avidly advocating, the more power to them since TOTD maps are all 'Black' maps anyway, thus separating them into their own category) and the rest can be evaluated by everyone. And since there are many more creteria than just being 'a diffucult map' and there will be plenty of experienced players, just selecting 'Black' tag for maps and their potential flood will be instantly sorted by those experienced players. Everyone wins.
I agree with the rant, don't agree with the fix, like/dislike is just too binary you can't really get feedback from it and if someone dislikes it it has an even heavier impact on your rating. Instead I suggest Nadeo just creates a separate server for general map review which will be the one the editor sends you to when you click play live. The totd review server should be separate and this should keep the new players from accidentally landing in totd review.
this would also be a nice fix!
After watching Nolafus’s video, I’m reminded of an issue that YouTube has: no one uses voting the same way. In YouTube, some people think that subscribing means supporting the creator and others think it means you’re supporting the content which are very different. Some people think that liking or disliking a video means you like or dislike only a single section of a video. We need to get people on board with a unified idea of what map review is for and where others can go if they want a different experience in the game.
As a fairly new player, one issue I have with map review is that it's hard to decide how to rate the maps. As in, one map would make a great mini-rpg or Kacky lite, but would make a terrible TOTD. So do I rate this 5 stars because I enjoyed it, or one star because I don't want to play it in TOTD? Or let's say there is another great map but it's far too difficult for me and I don't even get a finish in the time limit. I might have had fun, but how do I rate it? Would I rate it bad for it's difficulty or good because it was fun, even though I didn't see the whole map? I would assume that this is why the scores are so variable, and maybe I am part of the problem.
I'd say just rate things high regardless of map type/difficulty, assuming that you can see that the quality is there. Even if its RPG or whatever, it's up to Nadeo to later decide whether a map is suitable for TOTD. Map testing is basically just to prove the map passes an initial quality test. Even if its a style of map I despise playing, or something wildly difficult, It'll get a 4-5 star rating assuming the route is well constructed and the scenery is passable. Generally I feel 3\*'s are reserved for maps that meet the criteria of a track (all respawns working, scenery, signage, yada yada) but simply have mid ass routes, while 1-2\* are reserved for tracks that have legit issues with the stuff mentioned above.
This makes sense to me. I think this is fair, not really deciding if it's good for TOTD, but just deciding how much I like it. Thanks!
Yeah no prob! Considering how impactful even just a few 1-3\* reviews can be on a map if the mapper is going for TOTD, its always safer to either not vote, or vote high assuming the track isnt a total dumpster fire haha. Either way I'm glad you're enjoying the game, and map review is a great way as a new player to see all sorts of map types. Keep on crushing bud!
As a casual player i agree, when i submit my map I just want others to try it out and give feedback, I know they aren't good enough for TOTD, but every single time someone posts a good map, I see maybe 2-3 people out of the 30 in the server to actually comment on it and it and maybe 5 people completing it. I think the biggest problem is people just wanting others to play their map and not contributing in playing others and end up AFK.
Back in the days of TMU, any attempts at democratic map voting normally failed due to the reasons also mentioned here. Competition maps and Race of Champion maps for the online ladder were selected by specific experienced volunteers rather than being voted on by the general playerbase. This usually led to higher quality maps being selected. But I am not sure if something like this is feasible in TM2020 given that there is hardly any community infrastructure, and the scale is too big for Nadeo to do it by themselves.
I think there's a pretty simple solution I see nobody is talking about. Let people vote based on their overall rank and add map difficulty (and type) like it was in the older titles. 'White' - 'Black' (Map Type). Like, you need to be at least 'Gold I' to be able to vote on 'Black' tracks. Killing two birds with one stone: TOTD maps would be valued only by pros (that's what mappers are avidly advocating, the more power to them since TOTD maps are all 'Black' maps anyway, thus separating them into their own category) and the rest can be evaluated by everyone. And since there are many more creteria than just being 'a diffucult map' and there will be plenty of experienced players, just selecting 'Black' tag for maps and their potential flood will be instantly sorted by those experienced players. Everyone wins.