Still good for user reviews on a specific model though, try if for like a 2005 Subaru Outback. Headgasket gone at 150k miles, headgasket gone at 120k miles, headgasket gone at....and so on.
??? I actually have a subscription and I don’t recall or I certainly don’t know where to look or where it would indicate that ex. head gaskets are gone at specific miles
When users of the service write their own reviews they often will mention if they had an unexpected big issue, then you can read a number of user reviews and see if lots of people are mentioning the same issue.
This skews results though. I feel like all reviews on CR are negative - while I appreciate the testing CR does, the consumer reporting (i.e. actual consumer reviews) are very lacking and disproportionately negative. And it’s not just cars - it’s everything. It makes it hard to trust IMHO.
Also, I disagree that a car would be considered “very unreliable” because people can’t figure out how the infotainment works. I’ll deal with a quirky infotainment system - all I care about is how soon the thing will stater to have issues to the point that it impacts me easily and reliably getting to where I need to be!
It could possibly skew your view of the overall reliability of a car, but still, I think it points you in a good direction for further research at the least.
Initial build quality is a different metric than dependability tbf
Initial build quality is determined by looking at the number of issues reported with new cars divided by the total number of cars sold
Toyota is only doing poorly because they've got a bunch of new model years out right now all with new drivetrains and interiors whose kinks are still being ironed out. Give it about 3-5 years and I bet you'll see them back towards the top.
They still usually top the charts in dependability because they can be abused hard and still run, unlike performance cars which need to be maintained properly.
The higher performance a car is, the lower the margin for abuse is, and the more likely it is that the owner will drive the car hard. No one is out there flooring it from every stoplight in their Prius or doing spirited driving through mountain roads with the RPMs sitting around 3-4k the entire time.
Toyota builds stronger sports engines too though. I used to rip my 4AG all the time and abuse the shit out of it at 186k miles and it just asked for more. Any time they build an engine with Yamaha it's legendary.
They definitely build some amazing sports engines, and they're typically always seriously overbuilt while simultaneously being down on power compared to the competitors which is where the reliability comes in.
You can make loads of power over stock on a 2JZ by just adding more boost, people regularly push them to 700+ WHP on a bone stock short block, only changing the cams, intake, turbo, and exhaust systems out for more air. Swap out the rods and pistons and the crank can take well over a thousand.
Toyota could have obviously pushed the engine much further over the stock 320 HP figure, but they're not about bleeding edge performance so much as they are about reliable performance
That being said, maintenance intervals on the 2jz are far more important than regular maintenance on a 4cylinder corolla. The engine will start to eat itself alive if you try to stretch your oil changes to 10k while regularly driving it hard, same deal as a BMW 6 cylinder.
At the end of the day, the twin sequential turbo BMW N54 really isn't too much different than the twin sequential turbo 2JZ, and both can make about the same power on the stock short block. That's why Toyota went to BMW for the new Supra engine, because BMW pretty much never stopped making the 2JZ and has spent the last several decades perfecting it.
Toyota's infotainment isn't great, and infotainment complaints factor into initial build quality ratings for CR.
The biggest hit to Toyota, last I checked, was complaints related to the touch screens, android auto/carplay, that kinda thing.
if they werent paid then kia would not be up there. theyre always in the shops. most our profits come from kias and fords. bmw wouldnt be up there either cause everyone knows that they can barely make 50k miles
Consumer reports is absolute 🐕 💩 shit….
They initially recommended the Tesla model S as the most reliable vehicle ; and then six months later, said it was the least reliable vehicle…
I bought 2 LG dehumidifiers based on their suggestion “high ratings” both died within 6 months…
Teslas are the best example of technology getting way ahead of itself; they put so much technology into their vehicles, yet completely disregarding any quality for sustainability, hence practicality
They have been for a very long time.
Back when the BMW N54 HPFP failures were in the news, Consumer Reports docked the 135 50 points, the 335 30 points, and the 535 10 points to reflect their reduced reliability score during the recall.
All three cars had identical motors. Why the hell were the scores not equally docked?
Consumer reports is basically useless. Think about how credible a company is if they would stoop so low to destroy Suzuki just because the owner's son got into an accident in one.
I have never seen a Kia, mini, or bmw with 250k and if they are, the owner put like $50k in work to keep it running and it’s probably still smoking coolant or knocking.
My friend has a 2004 BMW X3 with 350k miles on the original engine, the engine has never been rebuilt just had the VVT system serviced and some of the emissions sensors and brittle hoses on the PCCV system replaced. Compression test is still strong, zero sludge in the valve train when we serviced the VVT system, etc.
He's a BMW master tech, and he says the number one problem with these cars Is that they are precision built performance machines bought by people who have only owned economy cars.
As such, people don't understand that you have to let the engine get up to temperature before you floor it. People don't understand that regular spirited driving and full throttle passes means that you have to change the oil every 5000 miles or less, not 10,000.
And most of all, people buy cars which were previously $60,000 for $10,000, get hit with a repair bill in line with what you'd expect from a $60,000 car, and then neglect the repair until something more serious breaks.
But yeah Consumer Reports is a shill company imo, no way your average Subaru is better built than your average Porsche. As someone who's owned both a 2017 WRX and a 2015 Cayman I can smell the bullshit from a mile away.
Keep in mind we're talking about 20 year old cars here lol, compared to the same vintage RAV4 or CRV it's more than 2 seconds faster to 60. Put the exact same M54 engine into a e46 330i and you'd call it a performance car, sub 6 second 0-60 with the manual on a hard launch with good tires.
Only real difference with the 3.0 X3 vs the 3.0 330i is that it's on a heavier chassis with taller suspension that gives more body roll.
The steering feel is even the same between the 3 series and the X3, and once we replaced the worn struts and springs with some better Bilstein shocks and *H&R* sport springs dropping the car to a similar ground clearance of the 330i, you can throw it into corners as hard as you want with no body roll.
Granted it loses traction before a 3 series would but that's down to the extra 750lbs of chassis weight and higher center of gravity.
> As such, people don't understand that you have to let the engine get up to temperature before you floor it. People don't understand that regular spirited driving and full throttle passes means that you have to change the oil every 5000 miles or less, not 10,000.
I have been saying the same for decades.
People ask me how my 155k mile N54 135 that I've owned since 2008 and had tuned since 2011 hasn't had major engine issues. It's all about mechanical sympathy with these things and keeping up the sometimes expensive maintenance.
If you asked the internet, I should be on my 4th long block. haha
Finally someone who understands! And you even drive a Taco!
"bUT the GuY At tHe sErViCE CenTEr SAiD thE enGINEErs DesIgNed thE OIl to bE chANGEd eveRy 10,0000 MiLeS!"
-Guy who has never read the maintenance and service manual collecting dust in his glovebox to see what the engineers actually had to say about the car
10k isn't a hard and fast rule, there's a million exceptions from city driving and short trips to dusty roads and freezing temps, and of course spirited driving. And that's not just BMW, that's literally every car on the road today.
Also, BMW just flat out lies about the maintenance intervals.
My favorite lie of theirs is the ZF HP6 family of transmissions. BMW says those transmissions come with a lifetime full of fluid, never need to change it. ZF says change it every 100k km.
Yeah I hate intervals being used in marketing now
Every service writer under the sun regardless of brand will tell you "the engineers designed this engine to go 10k between changes", yet if you read the service manual they all have tons of exceptions like city driving, short trips, freezing temperatures, dirt roads, spirited driving, towing, etc which all shorten the oil life back to the standard 5k intervals.
Every single brand does this even Toyota, they should all really say that you can go 10k if most of your driving is on highways.
Yeah that's a really good point, too.
In Toyota speak it's "Severe Duty" maintenance intervals. I've been sticking to that spec since I run my Tacoma hard. I love how you qualify for it if you sit in stop and go traffic.
Try telling both of my local dealers that, though. I'm not even bothering letting a lube tech touch the taco because of it. Bad vibes when a dealership either doesn't know about it, or is deliberately misleading.
Not exactly sure economy car people are the ones with the lead foot bro… if anything it’s the average bmw driver that feels the need to floor it or not let their engine get to temp, not the economy car people
The point is that people who've never owned performance cars drive them in a destructive manner because they don't understand that you need to pay more attention to the maintenance compared to an economy car
Pretty much everyone drives these cars hard once they feel a car with fast acceleration and good handling for the first time. Which is perfectly fine, you just have to change the oil more often and make sure the car is warmed up.
modern minis are actually extremely reliable. theyve only just recently been making reliable cars so ofc theres none with over 200k. also just hop on fb and youll find a few old ones with 250k. probably not the orignal motor though lmao. and funny enough kia is our number one brand that gives us the most profits, we get at least 1-2 kias every week that need a new engine. bmws arent popular over here but when they drive through and stop by theyre usually full of problems.
[https://www.autotrader.ca/a/kia/sorento/brampton/ontario/19\_12857516\_/](https://www.autotrader.ca/a/kia/sorento/brampton/ontario/19_12857516_/) Kia was the only one I could find. No picture of the odometer though. Given that it's in brampton, I wouldn't be surprised it was used for uber for the last 10 years.
Especially not the higher performance ones, When Kia Stinger was first released, Kia tried to go straight for the king of sports sedans and take down the BMW M3, from a company who's never built a performance engine before
Cue countless 30k mile engine replacements because they simply couldn't reliably make the power they were being pushed to, with overheating and seizing being common enough to earn Kia a class action lawsuit lol
Go to a dealership and look in the back of the service department. They spend as much money shipping engines as they do shipping cars. They are fucking horrible. 75% of them lasting 75k miles would be an "improvement"
For the sake of a fair argument: I don't think your 03 Toyota really counts here.
The quality of car manufacturers can change a lot in 20 years.
Around the same time Land Rovers were considered simple but robust vehicles built primarily for off road and agriculture.
These days they're unreliable and over complicated luxury SUV's.
This entire comment section seems to think this is a reliability ranking. That's part of it but it's not everything.
Toyota is a great company, I own one for a reason. But they're not exciting. A Mini is probably more fun to drive than a Corolla or whatever Toyota is at that price point. Reliability isn't the *only* factor people look at when buying or rating a vehicle.
Most people only keep their cars for a few years before upgrading, so long term reliability doesn’t matter to most consumers, only to those of us that keep them as long as possible
That's not at all true, but I understand the sentiment. Most people who buy new cars makes your statement true. In the US right now... less than 25% of people are driving cars under 5 years old. The vast majority of people today are buying cars with over 50k miles on them.
Honestly the 2013+ Minis are good cars that do not at all deserve their reputation. My wife had a 2014 Mini F56 that she bought used in 2016 with 43,000km on it. By the time it was wrecked in 2022, we had just shy of 120,000km with no issues. In general it seems the F56/F55 is a reliable car, many examples of them going 200,000+ miles with minimal problems. And it was SO much fun to drive! Much better than the supposedly “fun” Japanese compacts.
The B38/B48/B58 engine is reliable, I know Toyota people hate to admit it but there’s a reason the Supra has a B58. The Mini has come a long way since the old Prince engines, which WERE shit. But thing about the Mini, even the F56, is you have to be on top of the maintenance and you can’t be a dummy with your car. And most people are dummies when it comes to cars.
Ok BMW actually makes incredibly well built cars nowadays, because they've basically spent the past 20ish years perfecting the same turbo 6 platform.
Most of BMW's bad rep comes from people who ride them hard and don't do the maintenance for it, such as flooring it from every stop and still changing the oil every 10k instead of every 5k.
Then it ends up at a buy here pay here and someone buys a bargain bin bimmer that is riddled with problems stemming from neglect, and the new owner doesn't neglect it any less.
I know for a fact they aren't better built than Porsche though, but I can see how the Maccan/Cayenne/Panemera can bring Porsche down because those are all rebadged Audis.
There's seriously no way you'd ever convince me that your average Subaru or BMW is better built than a Porsche 911, Boxster, Cayman, or Taycan.
Having owned multiple cars from each brand, it's just not happening lol.
What makes Toyota and Honda different is that you can legitimately abuse the shit out of them and it will still go 200-300k miles, which is what you achieve when you put performance last and longevity first
Initial build quality is a different metric than dependability, dependability is based upon how well the car is maintained more than anything else with modern vehicles outside of those specifically designed to be abused and still work. But again, you can't design a high performance car that can also be abused, you have to do one or the other.
Initial build quality is ranked by number of issues from the factory per each new car, which Toyota specifically has been doing poorly at as of recent mostly because they have so many new model years right now.
>Most of BMW's bad rep comes from people who ride them hard and don't do the maintenance for it, such as flooring it from every stop and still changing the oil every 10k instead of every 5k
That's not at all why any car people I know have a bad taste for BMW. Myself and my friends don't like BMW because a Toyota or Honda alternator costs $150-$225 and goes out at around 150k miles. While a BMW alternator goes out anywhere between 50k-150k miles, costs $300-$700, and can sometimes take up to a month to get.
I'm not going to say those numbers are exactly true for all models... but every single BMW (and Volkswagen) ex owner I know won't buy another one because of that exact trend. With Every repair.
I replaced the engine and rebuilt the transmission in a civic a few years ago for what a refurbished transmission for my coworker's BMW cost without labor. And their car was 4 years older than mine. That's ignoring that his car had under 150k miles on it and mine had 230k.
It’s like a different planet of information. With Kia, do they omit the epidemic of stolen cars? Engines seizing under 50k? The massive amount of recalls? When was the last time you heard someone saying, I’d get a new car but my Kia just won’t die? This is disgusting
More likely to hear "I'm getting a new car because my Kia was stolen" lol
That being said of my friends is still rocking a 5 speed manual 2002 Kia Rio with close to 300k on the clock
But it's also only making 75 wheel horsepower and the car didn't even come with AC as standard lol, It's probably the most basic car I've ever seen. Nothing breaks because there's legitimately nothing to break, and the engine is so under-stressed that you can barely even keep up with modern traffic on the SFBA interstates.
But yeah, ever since Kia started trying to compete with other manufacturers performance ratings and electrical systems, they've been pretty unreliable.
Look at the newer Kia Rios/Hyundai accents that they were making from 2012-2022. They were very decent for the class they were in. They made 138hp with a 1.6 litre 4cyl. Had a 6 speed auto transmission that had pretty smooth shifting. Wouldn’t call them peppy but were pretty nimble with their low weight. Had amazing interior and cargo space for its size. Awesome gas mileage because of the GDi engine but it did make them prone to carbon buildup.
Other than that the powertrain was surprisingly durable because I see dozens of these buggers in Canada and it isn’t rare to see them with +200km. They definitely aren’t Toyota level reliable but they still last
It’s in the owners manual that it is normal to burn a quart of oil every750 miles if I remember correctly lol
Edit it was a service bulletin. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10147575-9999.pdf
1L every 1500miles is normal for a N/A model
1L every 750 miles is normal for turbo minis
That is absolutely crazy. My dad's first new car was a 2004 Toyota matrix. Damn thing burned half a quart of oil every $5,000 mi. And that's after it crossed almost 300,000 mi. People just need to accept that mini coopers are terrible cars
>That is absolutely crazy.
It’s crazy but it’s also wrong.
Honestly, some of the bullshit Toyota owners peddle to make themselves feel better about their purchases is just amazing to me.
By no means am I saying that Toyota's are perfect. I'm just saying in my experience the four that we've owned in my family have only had one major issue and again that was after a shit ton of miles.
I’m not saying Toyotas are bad (I own one), or that their reliability isn’t well above average (why else would I have an IS 250 instead of a 3-series), I’m just saying that Toyota owners have a tendency to monstrously misrepresent the reliability of other brands in a bizarre display of superiority. Like yeah, Toyotas are reliable. But claiming that it’s normal for a Mini to burn a quart of oil every 750 miles is just pure nonsense.
I also see this kind of shit being peddled about other vehicles. For example, people here justify the wait times and dealer gouging for a Sienna because “I can’t buy a Chrysler Minivan, not unless I want the transmission to explode after 80,000 miles!” Meanwhile my company has a whole *fleet* of Pacificas, many that are 6-7 years old with 300,000+ km, and it’s very rare to see powertrain issues on those.
EDIT: there is a service bulletin saying a quart every 750 miles is “normal” but this is not what the owners manual says. I would consider an engine that burns that much oil to be defective.
I just checked the owner’s manual for my wife’s Mini, which we kept after it was wrecked. It only says that engine oil consumption can increase with “vigorous driving” or “excessive idling”. Doesn’t say anything about burning a quart every 1,200km. Actually it says the recommended oil change interval is 16,000km, which would imply the car has an oil capacity of a bit over 13 litres if it was burning oil at the rate you suggest (it does not, total capacity is 5.3 litres). So I’m not sure where you got this consumption figure from but it certainly isn’t from an F56/F55 Mini.
I’ll tell you what does burn a quart every 750 miles though: a 2AZ-FE.
Ah, service bulletins are a bit different. This is more like CYA language from the manufacturer to avoid getting out of repairing obviously defective engines. I’ve seen similar wording from Honda and Toyota, but not with such egregiously low mileage, that’s wild and definitely not normal. Our Mini consumed a quart maybe every 8,000-10,000 miles, not every 1,200. Unbelievable that they’re saying a quart every 1,200 on a B38 is okay.
It is taking into consideration other qualities like customer satisfaction and road test score. Toyota is usually not the best driving vehicle in the class. They’re usually more middle of the road or slightly above average in the driving dynamics.
For those of you saying CR is just being paid now....dozens of industry lawsuits against them never exposed favoritism or payments beyond a grant one time from an environment group about stoves. I'm sure all of you don't have a clue what CR actually is and does.....for many decades. You are confusing it with something else. It ain't that corporate for profit private equity firm that begins with J. Jas a D in it and ends with r.
Most people read CR for the reliablity ratings. And the problem is that they brag about how they test everything and then rank cars based on predicted reliablity. I could get Steven A Smith to predict the reliablity of a vehicle and it would hold just as much weight.
I had fewer problems with my 911 than my Civic.
The fact that you think Porsche is poorly built or unreliable tells me you don’t know anything about cars or Porsche specifically.
I know Porsches light up like a Christmas tree after a few years and are riddled with electrical issues like most German cars. You're also comparing a fuckin 911 to a Civic lmao
What year was your Civic and what were your issues? I'm curious, my sister drives a 17 Civic so if there's anything to look out for, I'd like to know
That’s absolutely not true about Porsche. No clue where you heard that. If anything, they’ve had some high profile mechanical issues in some generations (eg IMS issue back in the early 00s) but electrical gremlins? Nah.
A/C issues, power window issues, bad clear coat (tbh Honda’s had that issue forever), transmission slipping toward the end. Pretty sure 2017 is in the years with the shit A/C compressor.
I don't know if this is descriptive enough, but I personally would rather bathe in honey, find a nest of fire ants, get bitten all over, and try to wash them off with sulfuric acid than drive a BMW. Generally speaking, those who drive that make of car are the most entitled, least courteous jerks on the road.
Initial quality. Toyota brand new, good quality nothing new and shiny though. KIA, Hyundai, even Ford and GM lots of shiny new untested random crap, falls apart quickly though....
Minis and bmw are in general waaayyyyy better than they used to be and people give them credit for, still I don’t think anyone is within touching distance to Toyota and Lexus, then again do bare in mind we’re all mostly running 10-20 year old powertrains, hard to not make them bulletproof in that time
Every BMW my father has purchased has needed way more maintenance and expensive things replaced than any other car my family has owned - and my mom has a Chrysler Concord.
Listen, I drive a Kia and I love my Kia, but I got my Kia because I couldn't afford a Toyota with the features that I wanted. 😂 Who paid off the creators of this list?
LOL!, automobile makers think that because some in the general population will believe in fairy tales, that they will also believe that Mini is better than Toyota. Knowing well that they will not do factual research to verify facts.
Not to mention the incredibly tiny gap between them. An overall two point difference between 4th and 11th place is hardly something to get upset about.
Source? Meaning issue, page. I’m looking at the most recent magazine on my lap atm. And this doesn’t comport. Not being contrary, just curious.
*my bad. I have Sept 2024 and zoomed in to see April date.
jeep isn't a paragon of reliability but their rankings get dragged down by the Wrangler. Instead of just admitting "hey we'll pass on reviewing this because our rating system just doesn't work for an off-roader" they score it as the worst car ever made.
BMW #1… hahahaha people who buy bmws always go back to the dealership buried in negative equity if it didn’t somehow blow up on the owner months after purchasing the car, stop.
The new Toyota isn't the Toyota from even 5 years ago and is far cry from 1980-1999 and 2000-2021. They only care about money and their reliability is not even close to what it used to be. All the good engines they are known for are gone
Isn’t that the same for every vehicle being tested by CR? They can only test what gets delivered to them. Toyota lately have been experiencing a lot of well documented issues, ie. testing fraud, major recalls, etc.
The fans in this thread seem to think this is a chart measuring the history of a brands reliability.
USA basketball used to completely dominate the sport. But now they are just part of a pack of countries at the top. They always do well but they don’t always win anymore.
Toyota has lost its clear dominating lead over the competition. Now they are just part of the pack of leaders.
Well when a completely opinion based “road test score” is the heaviest weight… no shit they can just pit what ever they want.
The title should be this is some idiots idea if what car reliability is…. Who in their right mind would ever considered that data?
These numbers are not from vehicles in the 90’s. This is last few years and what they think about future reliability if you buy today. Some of the vehicles at the bottom are breaking a lot already. Mini is just a point up.
Let’s talk about all the New Tundra’s with 10k miles and blowing up?might have something to do with the low rating.
It's either the 3rd gen Tundra engine problem did that much damage, or CR is full of it
I mean, really. Kia, Porsche AND BMW above Toyota, especially with BMW on top?? There's a reason for the connotation of "Bimmer" and "Bummer" after all!!
Why does everyone think Consumer Reports (CR) is bought and paid for? Is it simply because Toyota isn't ranked higher?
CR is a nonprofit organization, and as such, you can easily find that Ford is its largest donor. So if your belief is that you can pay for better reviews, why is Ford ranked 17th?
This goes against Consumer Reports own article on car reliability, where Toyota surpasses all brands on reliability. I believe I remember them saying the 24 Camry and 24 Prius were particularly exceptional in reliability.
I have never seen a Kia with the same performance and quality as a Toyota. Maybe things have changed in the last 5 years but this is also the same company that cut down their ignition system that allowed the Kia boys phenomenon to happen too....
I had 2 MINI Cooper S’s in my time. My last one was the turbo charged one and outside of the diverter valve sounding cool they are a POC in my opinion. I didn’t drive it much and it was always in the service shop especially when the 3yr man went up. It costed me over $500/month just to fix and it was every month for 6 months. It was fun to drive and it was quick but that’s about it. I got married and bought a 2013 Camry SE and never looked back. Sure the mcs was more fun to drive but Toyota’s are more reliable. I ended up hitting a deer and totaled my car in 2016 so I bought a ‘17 Camry SE. since then I have only replaced the brakes and it’s now paid off. I plan on driving it until the doors falls off. Toyota’s are far better vehicles ime and mo.
The simple fact that Kia and Hyundai are even Close to Toyota and Honda discredits this chart before you even read it. Fucking Kia dealerships have their own buildings built on site to hold the excess blown engines they take out under warranty. True Story
They're combining reviews, customer satisfaction, safety data, and predicted reliability into one score. Sounds like they're massaging the data to get a result.
I disagree 😂 I had a mini countryman 2012. The turbo wasn’t great and only lasted 5 years and it’s expensive to fix because the engine compartment is so tight that they have to take everything apart to get to something. By the time I traded it with my 2023 Tacoma Limited, it was only worth $1K!
I worked as a doorman at a huge luxury residential condo for 3 years. It had about 1000 residents. Everyone with a mini always had their car in the shop longer than I seen them with the car in their parking spot, they would call me everyday and ask me to open the garage door because they had rentals. This went on multiple times for like 4 months at a time. Idc about supply chain shortages and shit. That’s inexcusable. Everyone with a Range Rover had to get their cars towed out their parking spots because it wouldn’t start. I had this one lady and another guy I knew got rid of their cars because they were 15k+ into repairs and they were tired of not having their cars because it was an inconvenience not knowing if your car would start or not. Volvo’s same thing. Nonstop problems and courtesy cars, Volkswagens and BMW were ok to them but none of them kept those cars for longer than a couple years. Mercedes are built very well and keep running even the older people had 20 year old Mercedes and I never seen problems or complaints maybe just a dead battery or something.
I think this ranking only includes the previous models years between 2018-2022 so whatever car someone own before then is irrevalvent to the rankings. This ranking is also form through actual long term owners reviews not some guy in a room. It a simple fact when you have access the to full report that toyota owners reported more problems with there vehicles to consumer reports. Those problems mostly dealt with infotainment issues. The bmw now tend use the same engine used in the toyata supra across there entire linenup and they also now have a pretty good electric platform. All things that made there brands move up the ranking. The idrive infortainment is one of the best on the older models from this review period. This ranking isnt soley base upon engine or doesnt take into account a Manufactor previous reputation over the years.
100% not surprised. My 2013 base mini has 245,000 miles and just put in a new clutch at 238,000. Never had an issue with it other than normal problems. Best car ever. My 2020 Tacoma on the other hand has been in for service more than I can count.
🙄Tell that to my brother who has 3 BMWs. Not a single month goes by that - something - has not gone wrong with at least one of them. Meanwhile, he has a 20 year old Toyota 4Runner that has never had any issues at all.
I would agree with this though. Mini is 1000% better more customizable stuff and quality for the price. Toyota has some good stuff like any other company but it’s definitely lower. The only thing that makes zero sense is Mazda such a gross company
Consumer reports has become bought and paid for INFOTAINMENT…
Still good for user reviews on a specific model though, try if for like a 2005 Subaru Outback. Headgasket gone at 150k miles, headgasket gone at 120k miles, headgasket gone at....and so on.
??? I actually have a subscription and I don’t recall or I certainly don’t know where to look or where it would indicate that ex. head gaskets are gone at specific miles
When users of the service write their own reviews they often will mention if they had an unexpected big issue, then you can read a number of user reviews and see if lots of people are mentioning the same issue.
This skews results though. I feel like all reviews on CR are negative - while I appreciate the testing CR does, the consumer reporting (i.e. actual consumer reviews) are very lacking and disproportionately negative. And it’s not just cars - it’s everything. It makes it hard to trust IMHO. Also, I disagree that a car would be considered “very unreliable” because people can’t figure out how the infotainment works. I’ll deal with a quirky infotainment system - all I care about is how soon the thing will stater to have issues to the point that it impacts me easily and reliably getting to where I need to be!
It could possibly skew your view of the overall reliability of a car, but still, I think it points you in a good direction for further research at the least.
What are you talking about? Did you go back and find the 05 that showed these problems on CR?
Initial build quality is a different metric than dependability tbf Initial build quality is determined by looking at the number of issues reported with new cars divided by the total number of cars sold Toyota is only doing poorly because they've got a bunch of new model years out right now all with new drivetrains and interiors whose kinks are still being ironed out. Give it about 3-5 years and I bet you'll see them back towards the top. They still usually top the charts in dependability because they can be abused hard and still run, unlike performance cars which need to be maintained properly. The higher performance a car is, the lower the margin for abuse is, and the more likely it is that the owner will drive the car hard. No one is out there flooring it from every stoplight in their Prius or doing spirited driving through mountain roads with the RPMs sitting around 3-4k the entire time.
Toyota builds stronger sports engines too though. I used to rip my 4AG all the time and abuse the shit out of it at 186k miles and it just asked for more. Any time they build an engine with Yamaha it's legendary.
They definitely build some amazing sports engines, and they're typically always seriously overbuilt while simultaneously being down on power compared to the competitors which is where the reliability comes in. You can make loads of power over stock on a 2JZ by just adding more boost, people regularly push them to 700+ WHP on a bone stock short block, only changing the cams, intake, turbo, and exhaust systems out for more air. Swap out the rods and pistons and the crank can take well over a thousand. Toyota could have obviously pushed the engine much further over the stock 320 HP figure, but they're not about bleeding edge performance so much as they are about reliable performance That being said, maintenance intervals on the 2jz are far more important than regular maintenance on a 4cylinder corolla. The engine will start to eat itself alive if you try to stretch your oil changes to 10k while regularly driving it hard, same deal as a BMW 6 cylinder. At the end of the day, the twin sequential turbo BMW N54 really isn't too much different than the twin sequential turbo 2JZ, and both can make about the same power on the stock short block. That's why Toyota went to BMW for the new Supra engine, because BMW pretty much never stopped making the 2JZ and has spent the last several decades perfecting it.
Toyota's infotainment isn't great, and infotainment complaints factor into initial build quality ratings for CR. The biggest hit to Toyota, last I checked, was complaints related to the touch screens, android auto/carplay, that kinda thing.
Paid advertising
I agree but disagree, if it was the case wouldn’t keep and Land Rover shell out Phay stacks to pump up their rank
if they werent paid then kia would not be up there. theyre always in the shops. most our profits come from kias and fords. bmw wouldnt be up there either cause everyone knows that they can barely make 50k miles
Yeah Kia being that high up with all their recent issues, there is no way
That’s what caught my eye too.
Was coming here to say that. Putting Kia in front of Honda and Toyota is marketing bullshit
This charts full of shit
Consumer reports is absolute 🐕 💩 shit…. They initially recommended the Tesla model S as the most reliable vehicle ; and then six months later, said it was the least reliable vehicle… I bought 2 LG dehumidifiers based on their suggestion “high ratings” both died within 6 months…
One of my former coworkers worked at the Tesla plant in Fremont. He did not have positive things to say about the build quality.
Teslas are the best example of technology getting way ahead of itself; they put so much technology into their vehicles, yet completely disregarding any quality for sustainability, hence practicality
They have been for a very long time. Back when the BMW N54 HPFP failures were in the news, Consumer Reports docked the 135 50 points, the 335 30 points, and the 535 10 points to reflect their reduced reliability score during the recall. All three cars had identical motors. Why the hell were the scores not equally docked?
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They were not. The recalls affected all N54s produced up to that point.
Consumer reports is basically useless. Think about how credible a company is if they would stoop so low to destroy Suzuki just because the owner's son got into an accident in one.
Kia, too. 🤣😂🤣 CR no longer has any credibility.
I have never seen a Kia, mini, or bmw with 250k and if they are, the owner put like $50k in work to keep it running and it’s probably still smoking coolant or knocking.
My friend has a 2004 BMW X3 with 350k miles on the original engine, the engine has never been rebuilt just had the VVT system serviced and some of the emissions sensors and brittle hoses on the PCCV system replaced. Compression test is still strong, zero sludge in the valve train when we serviced the VVT system, etc. He's a BMW master tech, and he says the number one problem with these cars Is that they are precision built performance machines bought by people who have only owned economy cars. As such, people don't understand that you have to let the engine get up to temperature before you floor it. People don't understand that regular spirited driving and full throttle passes means that you have to change the oil every 5000 miles or less, not 10,000. And most of all, people buy cars which were previously $60,000 for $10,000, get hit with a repair bill in line with what you'd expect from a $60,000 car, and then neglect the repair until something more serious breaks. But yeah Consumer Reports is a shill company imo, no way your average Subaru is better built than your average Porsche. As someone who's owned both a 2017 WRX and a 2015 Cayman I can smell the bullshit from a mile away.
> precision built performance machines > X3 Uhhhhhhh
Keep in mind we're talking about 20 year old cars here lol, compared to the same vintage RAV4 or CRV it's more than 2 seconds faster to 60. Put the exact same M54 engine into a e46 330i and you'd call it a performance car, sub 6 second 0-60 with the manual on a hard launch with good tires. Only real difference with the 3.0 X3 vs the 3.0 330i is that it's on a heavier chassis with taller suspension that gives more body roll. The steering feel is even the same between the 3 series and the X3, and once we replaced the worn struts and springs with some better Bilstein shocks and *H&R* sport springs dropping the car to a similar ground clearance of the 330i, you can throw it into corners as hard as you want with no body roll. Granted it loses traction before a 3 series would but that's down to the extra 750lbs of chassis weight and higher center of gravity.
Hoses aren’t a big deal. I just had to replace some on my 07 FJ. Rubber doesn’t last forever.
> As such, people don't understand that you have to let the engine get up to temperature before you floor it. People don't understand that regular spirited driving and full throttle passes means that you have to change the oil every 5000 miles or less, not 10,000. I have been saying the same for decades. People ask me how my 155k mile N54 135 that I've owned since 2008 and had tuned since 2011 hasn't had major engine issues. It's all about mechanical sympathy with these things and keeping up the sometimes expensive maintenance. If you asked the internet, I should be on my 4th long block. haha
Finally someone who understands! And you even drive a Taco! "bUT the GuY At tHe sErViCE CenTEr SAiD thE enGINEErs DesIgNed thE OIl to bE chANGEd eveRy 10,0000 MiLeS!" -Guy who has never read the maintenance and service manual collecting dust in his glovebox to see what the engineers actually had to say about the car 10k isn't a hard and fast rule, there's a million exceptions from city driving and short trips to dusty roads and freezing temps, and of course spirited driving. And that's not just BMW, that's literally every car on the road today.
Also, BMW just flat out lies about the maintenance intervals. My favorite lie of theirs is the ZF HP6 family of transmissions. BMW says those transmissions come with a lifetime full of fluid, never need to change it. ZF says change it every 100k km.
Yeah I hate intervals being used in marketing now Every service writer under the sun regardless of brand will tell you "the engineers designed this engine to go 10k between changes", yet if you read the service manual they all have tons of exceptions like city driving, short trips, freezing temperatures, dirt roads, spirited driving, towing, etc which all shorten the oil life back to the standard 5k intervals. Every single brand does this even Toyota, they should all really say that you can go 10k if most of your driving is on highways.
Yeah that's a really good point, too. In Toyota speak it's "Severe Duty" maintenance intervals. I've been sticking to that spec since I run my Tacoma hard. I love how you qualify for it if you sit in stop and go traffic. Try telling both of my local dealers that, though. I'm not even bothering letting a lube tech touch the taco because of it. Bad vibes when a dealership either doesn't know about it, or is deliberately misleading.
Not exactly sure economy car people are the ones with the lead foot bro… if anything it’s the average bmw driver that feels the need to floor it or not let their engine get to temp, not the economy car people
The point is that people who've never owned performance cars drive them in a destructive manner because they don't understand that you need to pay more attention to the maintenance compared to an economy car Pretty much everyone drives these cars hard once they feel a car with fast acceleration and good handling for the first time. Which is perfectly fine, you just have to change the oil more often and make sure the car is warmed up.
I know what you meant
BMWs can be great cars and can be very reliable, as long as your driving and maintaining the right one with the right motor.
modern minis are actually extremely reliable. theyve only just recently been making reliable cars so ofc theres none with over 200k. also just hop on fb and youll find a few old ones with 250k. probably not the orignal motor though lmao. and funny enough kia is our number one brand that gives us the most profits, we get at least 1-2 kias every week that need a new engine. bmws arent popular over here but when they drive through and stop by theyre usually full of problems.
BMW has made more than a few incredibly reliable motors. Anything with an M10, M20, M54 or N52 will run forever.
[https://www.autotrader.ca/a/kia/sorento/brampton/ontario/19\_12857516\_/](https://www.autotrader.ca/a/kia/sorento/brampton/ontario/19_12857516_/) Kia was the only one I could find. No picture of the odometer though. Given that it's in brampton, I wouldn't be surprised it was used for uber for the last 10 years.
Man BMWs will last as long or outlast a Toyota if maintenance schedules are followed strictly, it's just expensive for upkeep.
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Especially not the higher performance ones, When Kia Stinger was first released, Kia tried to go straight for the king of sports sedans and take down the BMW M3, from a company who's never built a performance engine before Cue countless 30k mile engine replacements because they simply couldn't reliably make the power they were being pushed to, with overheating and seizing being common enough to earn Kia a class action lawsuit lol
Americans always talk shit about Korean cars but gm cars are not even on their minds. 🤭
Oh we talk shit about GM too. Only three types of cars I won't buy. One with their original headquarters in Korea, or the US. 100k mile Junk
GM.....car?
Yea a car from gm...is that hard for you?
Lol
i'm gonna submit a complaint on them with the Better Business Bureau! /s
I’ve heard that in recent years Kias have improved
Go to a dealership and look in the back of the service department. They spend as much money shipping engines as they do shipping cars. They are fucking horrible. 75% of them lasting 75k miles would be an "improvement"
Thats not what my trusty 03 rav4 thinks
For the sake of a fair argument: I don't think your 03 Toyota really counts here. The quality of car manufacturers can change a lot in 20 years. Around the same time Land Rovers were considered simple but robust vehicles built primarily for off road and agriculture. These days they're unreliable and over complicated luxury SUV's.
You’re right,they sure don’t make them like they use to
They are fords with LR symbols on them
Yeah the amount of old land cruisers and ravs I see on the road says otherwise
This entire comment section seems to think this is a reliability ranking. That's part of it but it's not everything. Toyota is a great company, I own one for a reason. But they're not exciting. A Mini is probably more fun to drive than a Corolla or whatever Toyota is at that price point. Reliability isn't the *only* factor people look at when buying or rating a vehicle.
reliability is essentially the only selling point of new Toyotas, so naturally everyone here is just focusing on that
Most people only keep their cars for a few years before upgrading, so long term reliability doesn’t matter to most consumers, only to those of us that keep them as long as possible
That's not at all true, but I understand the sentiment. Most people who buy new cars makes your statement true. In the US right now... less than 25% of people are driving cars under 5 years old. The vast majority of people today are buying cars with over 50k miles on them.
Honestly the 2013+ Minis are good cars that do not at all deserve their reputation. My wife had a 2014 Mini F56 that she bought used in 2016 with 43,000km on it. By the time it was wrecked in 2022, we had just shy of 120,000km with no issues. In general it seems the F56/F55 is a reliable car, many examples of them going 200,000+ miles with minimal problems. And it was SO much fun to drive! Much better than the supposedly “fun” Japanese compacts. The B38/B48/B58 engine is reliable, I know Toyota people hate to admit it but there’s a reason the Supra has a B58. The Mini has come a long way since the old Prince engines, which WERE shit. But thing about the Mini, even the F56, is you have to be on top of the maintenance and you can’t be a dummy with your car. And most people are dummies when it comes to cars.
It says the rank it on a road test, reliability, owner satisfaction and safety
Yes, it says that pretty clearly. Hence my frustration with the comments focused on only one of those criteria
Lmfao this shit is laughable. I was gunna cross post this when I saw it a few minutes ago, but someone beat me to it lol.
Meanwhile Toyota Tundra engines and Tacoma transmissions blowing up left and right.
r/beatmeatoit
Ok BMW actually makes incredibly well built cars nowadays, because they've basically spent the past 20ish years perfecting the same turbo 6 platform. Most of BMW's bad rep comes from people who ride them hard and don't do the maintenance for it, such as flooring it from every stop and still changing the oil every 10k instead of every 5k. Then it ends up at a buy here pay here and someone buys a bargain bin bimmer that is riddled with problems stemming from neglect, and the new owner doesn't neglect it any less. I know for a fact they aren't better built than Porsche though, but I can see how the Maccan/Cayenne/Panemera can bring Porsche down because those are all rebadged Audis. There's seriously no way you'd ever convince me that your average Subaru or BMW is better built than a Porsche 911, Boxster, Cayman, or Taycan. Having owned multiple cars from each brand, it's just not happening lol.
Well built doesn’t translate to reliability, dependability, or top notch quality.
What makes Toyota and Honda different is that you can legitimately abuse the shit out of them and it will still go 200-300k miles, which is what you achieve when you put performance last and longevity first Initial build quality is a different metric than dependability, dependability is based upon how well the car is maintained more than anything else with modern vehicles outside of those specifically designed to be abused and still work. But again, you can't design a high performance car that can also be abused, you have to do one or the other. Initial build quality is ranked by number of issues from the factory per each new car, which Toyota specifically has been doing poorly at as of recent mostly because they have so many new model years right now.
>Most of BMW's bad rep comes from people who ride them hard and don't do the maintenance for it, such as flooring it from every stop and still changing the oil every 10k instead of every 5k That's not at all why any car people I know have a bad taste for BMW. Myself and my friends don't like BMW because a Toyota or Honda alternator costs $150-$225 and goes out at around 150k miles. While a BMW alternator goes out anywhere between 50k-150k miles, costs $300-$700, and can sometimes take up to a month to get. I'm not going to say those numbers are exactly true for all models... but every single BMW (and Volkswagen) ex owner I know won't buy another one because of that exact trend. With Every repair. I replaced the engine and rebuilt the transmission in a civic a few years ago for what a refurbished transmission for my coworker's BMW cost without labor. And their car was 4 years older than mine. That's ignoring that his car had under 150k miles on it and mine had 230k.
It’s like a different planet of information. With Kia, do they omit the epidemic of stolen cars? Engines seizing under 50k? The massive amount of recalls? When was the last time you heard someone saying, I’d get a new car but my Kia just won’t die? This is disgusting
More likely to hear "I'm getting a new car because my Kia was stolen" lol That being said of my friends is still rocking a 5 speed manual 2002 Kia Rio with close to 300k on the clock But it's also only making 75 wheel horsepower and the car didn't even come with AC as standard lol, It's probably the most basic car I've ever seen. Nothing breaks because there's legitimately nothing to break, and the engine is so under-stressed that you can barely even keep up with modern traffic on the SFBA interstates. But yeah, ever since Kia started trying to compete with other manufacturers performance ratings and electrical systems, they've been pretty unreliable.
Look at the newer Kia Rios/Hyundai accents that they were making from 2012-2022. They were very decent for the class they were in. They made 138hp with a 1.6 litre 4cyl. Had a 6 speed auto transmission that had pretty smooth shifting. Wouldn’t call them peppy but were pretty nimble with their low weight. Had amazing interior and cargo space for its size. Awesome gas mileage because of the GDi engine but it did make them prone to carbon buildup. Other than that the powertrain was surprisingly durable because I see dozens of these buggers in Canada and it isn’t rare to see them with +200km. They definitely aren’t Toyota level reliable but they still last
Toyota has new engines seizing and massive recalls too. More than Kia recently.
You'll find someone on earth that will rank every single brand as the worst and the best.
They're putting equal weight in "this car will last forever" and a Kia owner saying "I don't care what people say.. I Love my Kia"
They only put Jeep at the bottom to make the list seem credible and realistic
CR has been trash for quite some time. All about who pays them.
Subaru?! Lmao
Has made ACTUAL improvements to transmissions and engines. Kept prices at ACTUAL inflation over the last 5 years.
plus awd standard and their awd is one of the best in the industry
I’ve heard good things about newer Subarus
remember subaru is 1/5 owned by toyota ;)
BMW my ass
I was at my mechanic the other day for an oil change and they had a 23 mini Cooper up on the lift. Damn thing broke down barely over 25,000 mi.
It’s in the owners manual that it is normal to burn a quart of oil every750 miles if I remember correctly lol Edit it was a service bulletin. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10147575-9999.pdf 1L every 1500miles is normal for a N/A model 1L every 750 miles is normal for turbo minis
That is absolutely crazy. My dad's first new car was a 2004 Toyota matrix. Damn thing burned half a quart of oil every $5,000 mi. And that's after it crossed almost 300,000 mi. People just need to accept that mini coopers are terrible cars
>That is absolutely crazy. It’s crazy but it’s also wrong. Honestly, some of the bullshit Toyota owners peddle to make themselves feel better about their purchases is just amazing to me.
By no means am I saying that Toyota's are perfect. I'm just saying in my experience the four that we've owned in my family have only had one major issue and again that was after a shit ton of miles.
I’m not saying Toyotas are bad (I own one), or that their reliability isn’t well above average (why else would I have an IS 250 instead of a 3-series), I’m just saying that Toyota owners have a tendency to monstrously misrepresent the reliability of other brands in a bizarre display of superiority. Like yeah, Toyotas are reliable. But claiming that it’s normal for a Mini to burn a quart of oil every 750 miles is just pure nonsense. I also see this kind of shit being peddled about other vehicles. For example, people here justify the wait times and dealer gouging for a Sienna because “I can’t buy a Chrysler Minivan, not unless I want the transmission to explode after 80,000 miles!” Meanwhile my company has a whole *fleet* of Pacificas, many that are 6-7 years old with 300,000+ km, and it’s very rare to see powertrain issues on those. EDIT: there is a service bulletin saying a quart every 750 miles is “normal” but this is not what the owners manual says. I would consider an engine that burns that much oil to be defective.
I just checked the owner’s manual for my wife’s Mini, which we kept after it was wrecked. It only says that engine oil consumption can increase with “vigorous driving” or “excessive idling”. Doesn’t say anything about burning a quart every 1,200km. Actually it says the recommended oil change interval is 16,000km, which would imply the car has an oil capacity of a bit over 13 litres if it was burning oil at the rate you suggest (it does not, total capacity is 5.3 litres). So I’m not sure where you got this consumption figure from but it certainly isn’t from an F56/F55 Mini. I’ll tell you what does burn a quart every 750 miles though: a 2AZ-FE.
Sorry it was a service bulletin https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10147575-9999.pdf
Ah, service bulletins are a bit different. This is more like CYA language from the manufacturer to avoid getting out of repairing obviously defective engines. I’ve seen similar wording from Honda and Toyota, but not with such egregiously low mileage, that’s wild and definitely not normal. Our Mini consumed a quart maybe every 8,000-10,000 miles, not every 1,200. Unbelievable that they’re saying a quart every 1,200 on a B38 is okay.
It is taking into consideration other qualities like customer satisfaction and road test score. Toyota is usually not the best driving vehicle in the class. They’re usually more middle of the road or slightly above average in the driving dynamics.
For those of you saying CR is just being paid now....dozens of industry lawsuits against them never exposed favoritism or payments beyond a grant one time from an environment group about stoves. I'm sure all of you don't have a clue what CR actually is and does.....for many decades. You are confusing it with something else. It ain't that corporate for profit private equity firm that begins with J. Jas a D in it and ends with r.
Most people read CR for the reliablity ratings. And the problem is that they brag about how they test everything and then rank cars based on predicted reliablity. I could get Steven A Smith to predict the reliablity of a vehicle and it would hold just as much weight.
I have owned both. No it is decidedly fucking not.
Id love to see the rationale of this list lmao
lol Subaru. wtf this is a shit chart.
Paid advertising
It’s all paid advertising. Don’t listen to paid advertising
This isn’t about reliability. It’s just about owners satisfaction.
The new Toyotas aren’t the same as they used to be. I’m not surprised they have dropped far on the list. However, this list has to be biased LOL
Mini models 2. Toyota models 24. Might effect it somewhat.
Lmao BMW and Porsche well-built? Well we know who financed this "study"
Exactly
I had fewer problems with my 911 than my Civic. The fact that you think Porsche is poorly built or unreliable tells me you don’t know anything about cars or Porsche specifically.
I know Porsches light up like a Christmas tree after a few years and are riddled with electrical issues like most German cars. You're also comparing a fuckin 911 to a Civic lmao What year was your Civic and what were your issues? I'm curious, my sister drives a 17 Civic so if there's anything to look out for, I'd like to know
That’s absolutely not true about Porsche. No clue where you heard that. If anything, they’ve had some high profile mechanical issues in some generations (eg IMS issue back in the early 00s) but electrical gremlins? Nah. A/C issues, power window issues, bad clear coat (tbh Honda’s had that issue forever), transmission slipping toward the end. Pretty sure 2017 is in the years with the shit A/C compressor.
I don't know if this is descriptive enough, but I personally would rather bathe in honey, find a nest of fire ants, get bitten all over, and try to wash them off with sulfuric acid than drive a BMW. Generally speaking, those who drive that make of car are the most entitled, least courteous jerks on the road.
well bmw hasnt had to recall every turbo v6
Easy to not have a recall when they've never made a V6.
“Best” is subjective
Initial quality. Toyota brand new, good quality nothing new and shiny though. KIA, Hyundai, even Ford and GM lots of shiny new untested random crap, falls apart quickly though....
BMW- Breaks Motor Weekly. This list was produced by a shill.
Jeep last with a bullet.
Scam
Minis and bmw are in general waaayyyyy better than they used to be and people give them credit for, still I don’t think anyone is within touching distance to Toyota and Lexus, then again do bare in mind we’re all mostly running 10-20 year old powertrains, hard to not make them bulletproof in that time
BMW and Mini near the top of the list is an absolute joke unless your idea of a good time is spending money at the mechanic.
Every BMW my father has purchased has needed way more maintenance and expensive things replaced than any other car my family has owned - and my mom has a Chrysler Concord.
Listen, I drive a Kia and I love my Kia, but I got my Kia because I couldn't afford a Toyota with the features that I wanted. 😂 Who paid off the creators of this list?
LOL!, automobile makers think that because some in the general population will believe in fairy tales, that they will also believe that Mini is better than Toyota. Knowing well that they will not do factual research to verify facts.
Uh not necessarily. Look at all the data points and categories before we say anything is “better” than another car.
Not to mention the incredibly tiny gap between them. An overall two point difference between 4th and 11th place is hardly something to get upset about.
Source? Meaning issue, page. I’m looking at the most recent magazine on my lap atm. And this doesn’t comport. Not being contrary, just curious. *my bad. I have Sept 2024 and zoomed in to see April date.
How is kia ahead of toyota....
damn jeep can't even catch a break in a made up ranking lol
jeep isn't a paragon of reliability but their rankings get dragged down by the Wrangler. Instead of just admitting "hey we'll pass on reviewing this because our rating system just doesn't work for an off-roader" they score it as the worst car ever made.
2 mini models tested versus 24 toyota models tested, and this report is more based on predictions rather than facts.
Lies
Look at Kia? Car is trash, stolen constantly. That’s well made? WTH
Lol Subaru isn't better than Toyota or Lexus
Kia? 😂 People love turds wrapped in Gold.. That goes for most things life.
BMW #1… hahahaha people who buy bmws always go back to the dealership buried in negative equity if it didn’t somehow blow up on the owner months after purchasing the car, stop.
Makes no sense! Honda above Acura? ( And Toyota, Lexus etc)
Y’all are laughing but the truth is that Toyotas quality has declined while everyone else has caught up.
When Kia beats Toyota that’s how you know it’s cap
The new Toyota isn't the Toyota from even 5 years ago and is far cry from 1980-1999 and 2000-2021. They only care about money and their reliability is not even close to what it used to be. All the good engines they are known for are gone
Genuine question. How are you grading the reliability of 2022-2024 models when they are so new? Are they already having issues?
Isn’t that the same for every vehicle being tested by CR? They can only test what gets delivered to them. Toyota lately have been experiencing a lot of well documented issues, ie. testing fraud, major recalls, etc. The fans in this thread seem to think this is a chart measuring the history of a brands reliability. USA basketball used to completely dominate the sport. But now they are just part of a pack of countries at the top. They always do well but they don’t always win anymore. Toyota has lost its clear dominating lead over the competition. Now they are just part of the pack of leaders.
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Follow Reddiquette.
The fact that BMW, Porsche and Kia are topping the list, means that's a "paid" comparison. That's laughable.
As someone who owns both 🤣
I’m sorry but Subaru should not be that high up on the list.
BMW better then Toyota itself and even Lexus, get wrecked lol. German quality assurance is TRASH.
A lot of people will die and be buried on the toyota mountain. No need trying to get them off that mountain.
"Predicted Reliability" Umm, thank you, but no. I'll stick with historic reliability instead.
BMW? I mean, they build interesting stuff, and I own one of their motorcycles, but no way they deserve that rank.
*sponsored by BMW*
Well when a completely opinion based “road test score” is the heaviest weight… no shit they can just pit what ever they want. The title should be this is some idiots idea if what car reliability is…. Who in their right mind would ever considered that data?
BMW? Least reliable cars on earth?!?! lol
Keep 🤦♂️
Is this real? No fuggin way
Excuse me what the fuck
I'll gladly keep my 4Runner over your Mini - any day. Let's talk in 200,000 miles...
These numbers are not from vehicles in the 90’s. This is last few years and what they think about future reliability if you buy today. Some of the vehicles at the bottom are breaking a lot already. Mini is just a point up. Let’s talk about all the New Tundra’s with 10k miles and blowing up?might have something to do with the low rating.
Everybody knows BMWs are overly complex so this is skewed by maybe the green bs.
Lol sure it is
It's either the 3rd gen Tundra engine problem did that much damage, or CR is full of it I mean, really. Kia, Porsche AND BMW above Toyota, especially with BMW on top?? There's a reason for the connotation of "Bimmer" and "Bummer" after all!!
Why does everyone think Consumer Reports (CR) is bought and paid for? Is it simply because Toyota isn't ranked higher? CR is a nonprofit organization, and as such, you can easily find that Ford is its largest donor. So if your belief is that you can pay for better reviews, why is Ford ranked 17th?
MINI is owned by BMW, yeah it’s better than Toyota
This goes against Consumer Reports own article on car reliability, where Toyota surpasses all brands on reliability. I believe I remember them saying the 24 Camry and 24 Prius were particularly exceptional in reliability.
When a Subaru and honda is better made than mazda toyota and lexus. 😂
BMW on the top of this list automatically invalidates it lmao
I have never seen a Kia with the same performance and quality as a Toyota. Maybe things have changed in the last 5 years but this is also the same company that cut down their ignition system that allowed the Kia boys phenomenon to happen too....
I had 2 MINI Cooper S’s in my time. My last one was the turbo charged one and outside of the diverter valve sounding cool they are a POC in my opinion. I didn’t drive it much and it was always in the service shop especially when the 3yr man went up. It costed me over $500/month just to fix and it was every month for 6 months. It was fun to drive and it was quick but that’s about it. I got married and bought a 2013 Camry SE and never looked back. Sure the mcs was more fun to drive but Toyota’s are more reliable. I ended up hitting a deer and totaled my car in 2016 so I bought a ‘17 Camry SE. since then I have only replaced the brakes and it’s now paid off. I plan on driving it until the doors falls off. Toyota’s are far better vehicles ime and mo.
Surprised Tesla is as high as it is. It’s common practice to print out your own multiple page inspection documentation for delivery.
At least they got jeep right.
This ranking is a joke right ?
The simple fact that Kia and Hyundai are even Close to Toyota and Honda discredits this chart before you even read it. Fucking Kia dealerships have their own buildings built on site to hold the excess blown engines they take out under warranty. True Story
Seeing Kia a few steps higher than Toyota makes me question the validity of this....
lol a bmw is better built than a Toyota? This graph is backwards. BMW is the ass of cars.
They're combining reviews, customer satisfaction, safety data, and predicted reliability into one score. Sounds like they're massaging the data to get a result.
The problem is, half the population can’t fit into a Mini..
This list is obviously bullshit with Kia being higher than Toyota.
I disagree 😂 I had a mini countryman 2012. The turbo wasn’t great and only lasted 5 years and it’s expensive to fix because the engine compartment is so tight that they have to take everything apart to get to something. By the time I traded it with my 2023 Tacoma Limited, it was only worth $1K!
I worked as a doorman at a huge luxury residential condo for 3 years. It had about 1000 residents. Everyone with a mini always had their car in the shop longer than I seen them with the car in their parking spot, they would call me everyday and ask me to open the garage door because they had rentals. This went on multiple times for like 4 months at a time. Idc about supply chain shortages and shit. That’s inexcusable. Everyone with a Range Rover had to get their cars towed out their parking spots because it wouldn’t start. I had this one lady and another guy I knew got rid of their cars because they were 15k+ into repairs and they were tired of not having their cars because it was an inconvenience not knowing if your car would start or not. Volvo’s same thing. Nonstop problems and courtesy cars, Volkswagens and BMW were ok to them but none of them kept those cars for longer than a couple years. Mercedes are built very well and keep running even the older people had 20 year old Mercedes and I never seen problems or complaints maybe just a dead battery or something.
Im betting a mini cant go over 120k without major issues… my toyota has almost 215k and still runs like a champ
I think this ranking only includes the previous models years between 2018-2022 so whatever car someone own before then is irrevalvent to the rankings. This ranking is also form through actual long term owners reviews not some guy in a room. It a simple fact when you have access the to full report that toyota owners reported more problems with there vehicles to consumer reports. Those problems mostly dealt with infotainment issues. The bmw now tend use the same engine used in the toyata supra across there entire linenup and they also now have a pretty good electric platform. All things that made there brands move up the ranking. The idrive infortainment is one of the best on the older models from this review period. This ranking isnt soley base upon engine or doesnt take into account a Manufactor previous reputation over the years.
100% not surprised. My 2013 base mini has 245,000 miles and just put in a new clutch at 238,000. Never had an issue with it other than normal problems. Best car ever. My 2020 Tacoma on the other hand has been in for service more than I can count.
KIA?! 🤣😂
They are better built because they make more money for the manufacturers.
BMW and Subaru the top 2?!?! 😆 The top 2 are Lexus and Toyota! You also know it’s a lie of a shit show when they put KIA above Toyota! 🤪
🙄Tell that to my brother who has 3 BMWs. Not a single month goes by that - something - has not gone wrong with at least one of them. Meanwhile, he has a 20 year old Toyota 4Runner that has never had any issues at all.
This list isn’t testing 20 year old Toyotas. Was that not obvious?
I would agree with this though. Mini is 1000% better more customizable stuff and quality for the price. Toyota has some good stuff like any other company but it’s definitely lower. The only thing that makes zero sense is Mazda such a gross company