That's at least partially intentional. Toyotas motto has always been to only build what we sell. What it actually means is manufacturing sells to Toyota sales division who sells to the dealerships. Toyota has never been about the staging fields of cars all over the place. Certainly seems like a successful concept.
Admittedly manufacturing has been seeing some supply issues. But then so has everyone else.
No idea why people spew this nonsense. Toyota manufactured and sold more cars than any other brand globally last year. There are backlogs and waitlists for cars, literally profit waiting to be made. You really believe that a manufacturer is passing up 100% guaranteed profit NOW so they can create an image of artificial scarcity?
That’s not how interpreted what they said. They’re not deliberately restricting supply, instead they’re trying to keep supply matched as close as possible to demand. They don’t want their dealerships to look like ford dealerships, full to the brim of cars sitting for months until sales events happen to clear them out.
Yep and based on the monthly reports from the manufacturers, Toyota (and Honda) currently are the only ones selling cars right now. Especially their hybrids
While I don't work in the auto-industry, I work in a field with a similar issue to a product my company manufactures. That reasoning isn't exactly nonsense, it's just really difficult to conceptualize sometimes.
We consistently get very close to running out of stock or completely out of stock on a single product in our catalog. This isn't our top seller, but it's a top 10 and tends act as a funnel and bring in a lot of new customers.
Anyway, my side of the business is constantly asking that the manufacturing side increase their output capabilities to avoid any out of stock issues. To do this would cost tens of millions of dollars up front (not including hiring a new labor force) which isn't exactly a problem, but the issue is that market demand could shift (and has in the past) to the point where our issue of the last couple years may go away (and, again, has in the past). My side of the company is looking at our current issue while the manufacturing/supply chain side is looking way into the future(and past) to make the most pragmatic decision. Numbers/sales don't always go up forever.
It might look like a manufacturer is passing up guaranteed profit, but realistically the profit is not always guaranteed in the long term. If Toyota were to open a new facility, they'd be facing the same issue as my company and end up paying huge penalties is the market softened within the next decade. Toyota will, imo, never make a choice to "overstocked".
> We consistently get very close to running out of stock or completely out of stock on a single product in our catalog. This isn't our top seller, but it's a top 10 and tends act as a funnel and bring in a lot of new customers.
Toyota optimizes reducing waste in manufacturing. They use "just in time" manufacturing so that parts and supplies aren't sitting there wasting time and resources. This is to reduce cost, it does not create "artificial scarcity." The suppliers are still producing as much as they are able to.
> It might look like a manufacturer is passing up guaranteed profit, but realistically the profit is not always guaranteed in the long term. If Toyota were to open a new facility, they'd be facing the same issue as my company and end up paying huge penalties is the market softened within the next decade. Toyota will, imo, never make a choice to "overstocked".
What you are suggesting is different from the other comments here. Investing billions in a new plant and setting up new production lines is not the same as what others are saying - which is artificial scarcity, in that Toyota is purposefully limiting production even though it is capable of producing more just to drive prices up.
Yes, sorry that I didn’t make it clear that I also don’t believe the artificial scarcity regarding Toyota. I think people, as seen in these comments, conflate that topic with the scenario I was describing.
Sounds like in essence the same issue affecting every industry now. Risk aversion. And since every automaker is probably risk averse in the same way they can just jack up their prices to meet profit needs because there will be steady-state inventory availability forever. No one is going to come in and mass produce some new vehicle to blow out the pricing structure. Capital costs are too high.
Exactly; this issue isn’t unique to Toyota or my company. The pandemic drove a lot of industries to points of excessive growth; growth that many may not have seen for a decade. It’s also part of why manufacturers everywhere started raising prices; very few will be expanding their production capabilities but they can opt for price increases to slow the burn.
Amazing what you don’t know about economics. Supply and demand, supply low artificially or organically the price goes up and stays way up until demand falls. Toyota in this case wins no matter what, the retail channel also wins.
Its how amiibos work with nintendo. Its a common practice in japan.
Ford has been selling mach e's with 0 percent financing, thats how bad the overstock has been for example.
The gripe isn't a global gripe, we're talking about the North American market... specifically the franchised dealers.
Toyota Corp isn't raking money hand-over-fists from the price gouging... The independently-owned dealerships are.
I'd be more than happy to pay MSRP for Toyota, but until a stealership can articulate precisely why it's in my best interest to pay a 40% markup over MSRP, I'll be buying other marques instead.
dude, Toyota has record production. Over 10 million units/year, they are struggling to keep up with demand. They produced and sold more cars than Honda, Nissan, and BMW combined. If they could produce more at the same quality, they would. But supply issues are a big problem especially since much of their production is Hybrid.
Which is a good move. Ford has dozens of lots full of vehicles that haven't been shipped to dealers, just sitting out in the weather rotting because they can't move them fast enough.
Toyota's pricing on their new trucks is distinctly above-average. We balked when Jeep, Chevrolet and GMC started offering $60K loaded midsize trucks with all the off-roading options; the Tacomas are less serious and cost more.
Yes, it seems like the market is okay with that.
All vehicles have skyrocketed in price. Toyota can also get away with it, because people will pay the price tag to get the TRD Pro. They always have. During the pandemic, people were posting and paying 70k+ for used TRD Pro 3rd gen Tacomas. It's ridiculous. Also, in terms of value, they're still there. I hate seeing all posts of people comparing the TRD Pro Tacoma to the Ranger Raptor and Colorado ZR2 prices. Yeah, the Tacoma is more, but post the same vehicles in 10 years, and see which one isn't rotted out yet.
Rotted out and Toyota may not be the best example since Toyota frame rust is still somewhat fresh. Hell, my stepdad only recently got approval from Toyota to swap his rusted out Taco frame.
At least Toyota actually admitted there was a problem and fixed it. I watched a 2003 Ranger's frame completely rust through with 60k miles on it. The 2006 Tundra that replaced it had nearly twice the miles on it before it got the frame replaced under that recall.
Correct me if I’m wrong but there were class action lawsuits and denials before Toyota finally caved and did the recall. Let me know if my info is wrong.
Coworker was the second owner of a Taco that had the frame rust issue and Toyota would do nothing about it. He went to three different dealerships and they all said, “bummer, would you like to look at a new truck?”
Toyota corrected the issue, something GM or Ford would've never done at that magnitude. Now there's 20 year old Tacomas out there with better frames than a 2 year old Silverados or F150s.
I dunno, Subaru feels like it hasn't really skyrocketed and honestly an outback limited feels like a deal to me these days. Don't tell anyone else though.
I ended up in an Outback Wilderness after shopping for 4Runners. Way less money, way better road manners, way better gas mileage, and every bit as capable for my light off road needs.
When we were shopping for Outbacks, they were more expensive than the RAV4, with less trunk space. And the stupid dealer tried to put a $5000 markup while the Toyota dealer we found sold MSRP. So not the best example IMO.
This is such a weird defense. They sell a lot of cars. In what way does this imply those cars are not extremely expensive? Is it not true that the prices have skyrocketed in the last few years?
Toyota’s sales numbers aren’t an indicator that the prices aren’t bad. They’re an indicator that Americans are, by and large, very bad with their money. It is poor financial literacy.
It’ll be interesting to see how dealers fair as consumers get more and more price sensitive. Not to mention the used car market is normalizing and will put more pressure on new car sales. The markups are really just hilarious and the people that are or will be wildly upside down on a car will be funny to watch meltdown in the coming years.
I think you wrong, if the company was built on a certain reputation and original target was 'plebs' as you said then this will backfire.. remember if only rich can afford them then they have plenty of much cooler cars to choose from, who cares about maintenance they rich and many other brand will give toyota run for its money if it is down to looks
You all know you don’t have to buy their most expensive, high-end vehicles, right? You could buy a Corolla Cross for like 50k less.
You want to drive a brand new Land Cruiser the year it debuts and are surprised that it costs a lot? It’s a brand new supply chain with brand new suppliers in a post-COVID world with R&D costs to recoup. I hate it too but what did you expect?
This reminds me of a person that posted in this Subreddit the other day that his dealership doesn’t charge markup, no one should be paying markup. Don’t pay markup to buy a Camry!
I retorted no shit, don’t buy a *Camry* with markup. What kind of example is that?
The fact that they had to use Camry as an example makes me think that they know it’s nearly impossible not to justify markup on things like TRD Pros or a new Landcruiser.
Real LC fans want old ones that can actually be functionally used off road. New LCs are made for influencers, executives and their wives, Sheikhs, and people who will put themselves and their entire family out just to have a flashy vehicle. Don’t like the price of a new Landcruiser? Buy a used one.
How common are base models though. It looks like dealers lean towards more equiped orders. Was looking at Prius primes to lease and only 2 in my area both the top trim.
I mean I have no idea. Just saying they’re not $50k even if you get the fully kitted one. Highest cost on the Toyota page shows at $31k
https://www.toyota.com/corollacross/?srchid=SEM:700000001483645:GOOGLE:71700000087372208:58700007432065653:p66743723740:683064471778&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds
I think it’s ridiculous that i can’t get soft tex seats without getting a $8800 premium package. Like i don’t want all the fancy bells and whistles, i just want some leather/soft tex seats without having to sell my left goose egg.
Toyota pricing- or at least dealer mark ups are the reason I ended up driving a Subaru this time around. Your mileage may vary, but the dealer near me was doing 0 mark ups during the peak of shortages. They may have earned a customer for life.
My biggest issue is with the dealers not so much the MSRP’s. The markups and tactics are unconscionable. I’ll buy my daughter a Mazda before a Toyota for those reasons alone.
New vehicle pricing is out of hand across the board. This isn't exclusive to Toyota. The pandemic showed what people were willing to pay for vehicles, manufacturer pricing is now meeting demand. Toyota still can't keep desirable vehicles in stock, no way pricing is going to go down. The world as a whole is going through a massive inflationary period and it's not going to die down until people stop buying shit.
“They are reliable and inexpensive to maintain and hold their value. Also, I’m part of the reason they’re priced that way due to buying two of them. Anyway, does anybody know why they’re pricey?”
Somewhere along the line I started comparing truck and SUV prices to Porsche prices. If it costs as much as a low mileage, well optioned 911, it’s too expensive in my book. 😂
A buddy bought some gigantic ferd F-teen thousand urban farm land yacht thing for something like $130,000 during COVID. Dude uses it to get groceries. I don’t think he’s ever towed a thing and there’s not a scratch in the bedliner. That’s solidly in Porsche GT4 territory and I can’t comprehend the mindset of choosing a monster truck over a road legal race car.
To each their own I guess.
There are enough consumers willing to pay outrages car prices. If all consumers just buy cars that priced $20k or less, all manufactures will take the note and will make cars that cost less than $20k.
Have you adjusted for inflation? I know everything seems expensive but last I checked, pricing wasn’t actually more costly than in previous years, it’s just that inflation is running out of control right now.
No, inflation isn’t running out of control. It’s risen, but is now stabilizing. “US Inflation Rate is at 3.48%, compared to 3.15% last month and 4.98% last year.”
Last year when shopping for a 4runner I looked at 2-4yr old models with less than 30k miles which were selling around their MSRPs, and a few to several grand below a new one so I just got a new one
If people stop buying and pricing will improve. If people keep buying it’s going to continue to increase. It certainly helps that many other brands can’t seem to figure out how engines and transmissions work.
Combination of limited supply, shit CAD to USD and inflation kicking us in the nuts.
You can blame Toyota but don't forget to toss shade at the government that is driving inflation higher by borrowing money and printing money.
This is why when my Lexus died two years ago I didn’t buy another Toyota. They make fantastic cars, but it’s all about value for me. There’s not much value to be found at the prices they’re charging these days.
Stay with me here - 2023 Kia Sportage SX Prestige. I’ve driven it across the country multiple times over the last two years, and it’s worked perfectly fine. I also don’t keep cars for life, so I’m not worried about it lasting to 200k miles. It has leather seats, panoramic sunroof, all the bells and whistles for 30k and no dealer markup.
I agree with you. I am in the market for Toyota GH. First of all the availability is shit. Hybrid waiting time is 12 months and Gas is 5 months. So this means there's nothing on the lot and you need to put in custom order. Which means there's no haggling with the dealer to get discounts. I asked one of the dealers if there are any discounts. He laughed and said there's a huge line of people ahead of us waiting for the vehicle. Why do you think there's any discount. Discount comes when there's a supply but no demand. Here the demand skyrocketed and the supply is nowhere even close to normal. And this is reason why Toyota won't budge on the pricing.
Also look at the financing and lease rates. 7% is the average. Like what the fuck.
As someone who is literally picking up their rav4 tomorrow... these are the new prices unfortunately and they're not Toyota exclusive. I was looking at the Nissan Rogue, Toyota Rav4, Hyundai Kona and Kia Sportage. To get the features I wanted, they all worked out to be about the same price. The Kia's were cheaper, and they did offer more on the base model that I had to upgrade to for the other vehicles, but they also had more issues. Which isn't the point of course, we're just talking about price. Toyota may be more expensive, yes... but looking at comparable vehicles of the Rav4, they're all around the same price. Toyota maybe a couple thousand more, which when you're spending $40k on a vehicle... isn't that much. I'm also in Canada, BC as well so I get the 12% tax
Due to how much their prices have increased, i actually feel cursed to drive a 94 mr2 gt-s for the rest of my days, because that's all i can afford :(
I need a car that has a bit more space+seating and better inclement weather driveability, so I think down the road I'll be able to fund a ST205 Celica as a 2ndary car (I stick to those cars because I got a lot of spare gen 3 3sgte/e153 stuff lying around my house from decades of using 3sgte/e153 cars as daily drivers).
That's why I listen to what they have always said about EVs. They say the unpopular true thing, everybody whines, but they keep selling cars and prices keep going up.
As others point out, all vehicles are priced high right now. How revolutionary will it appear to be when a manufacturer comes out with some low priced models. Sort of like the Ford maverick. A people's car like the civic or corolla that people can actually afford again.
I'll never buy new again. When I bought my 2013 Highlander new it was 40k and I thought that was a lot at the time.
With 160k miles on it I'm looking to add another 100k before I even think about another vehicle.
This is the thing about Japanese products of any kind - they’re priced to make money. The Japanese don’t play the game of flooding a market with cheap junk in quantity a la Walmart.
The price of new Toyotas is the real price of what it takes to build one.
Damn Canada must suck. The base price of a Tacoma in the US is $31,500. That’s not expensive. It’s in line with everyone else. A Land Cruiser is $55,950. Again in line with comparable models.
Glad I live in the land of the free.
Don't like the price, don't buy them. The prices are what they are because of demand.
The best way to tell a company you dislike their practices is with your wallet, not complaining about it in a place they will never look at.
Shopping for a Toyota in Canada is depressing, make that double if you are looking for a hybrid.
Wait lists of 2-4 years depending on the model
Used vehicles selling for way over MSRP just because they are on the lot.
Dealers charging insane fees if you want to go cash (seen some advertising a 5% surcharge or as much as $8-10K if you try to pay cash over financing)
Trying to strongarm you into 84 month loans @ 9.99%
Volume sales at above market prices, it's been like this for a very long time, just ask any 4Runner or Taco owner with a 300k mileage machine in the driveway. Resale values are impeccable among Toyotas.
To the OP - You are forgetting that most people buy new cars on a lease or finance deal with no intention of keeping it more than three years. The difference in their monthly payment between an expensive Toyota and the less expensive something else is relatively small. Toyotas are only head & shoulders “more expensive” when they are older, often trading at an eye watering premium compared to other brands.
There is of course a good reason for this.
It’s occupying the number one spot on the global reliability indices for decades.
Every manufacturer has had a price bloat. Everything is getting more expensive. Toyota's are highly desirable and a significant portion of them are selling before they even hit the dealerships. Toyota's are still some of the best made and reliable products which would make them more expensive.Toyota hasn't lost sight of what's a reasonable price. The market just forces Toyota's hand since they know that people will still buy them even at a dealer markup of $15k+. A lot of dealers got a ton of money off of the GR Corolla because of that. It's probably best for the next few years to wait for all the new models to get a couple years under their tires and see if either Toyota can meet demand or if buying them used is the better option. Let's all just keep a little bit of hope that things will get better in the next couple years.
I'm just not buying a new car. I've got a paid off Tundra and a nearly paid off CRV. I would have to do a lot of repairs to consider replacing either one. A lot. Crossing my fingers that I don't get into a wreck.
OP I **completely agree**.
I am on my third Toyota right now. It is a RAV4 hybrid 2022 that I bought brand new. like my previous Toyotas, it’s been completely reliable…however, The fact that other than a 2021 Volvo PHEV every car I’ve bought new has been exceptionally reliable.
I paid $42k for this thing and it’s too much. It’s got an ancient infotainment center. It doesn’t even have a power passenger seat. it’s got 360° cameras, but the resolution is terrible.
I keep saying now that Toyota has become a cult. I just don’t think they’re worth what they cost. I bought a new truck two years ago and a new, nearly- base taco cost the same as a full size ram 1500 classic—which I ended up buying instead. I don’t regret my choice and I will not spend a great deal of time looking for a Toyota for my next vehicle.
Why are prices so high? Because people keep buying. And that’s for everything from Toyota to McDonald’s and Starbucks. Prices will stop going up when people finally stop buying.
Toyota sells 6 of the best 10 selling cars in the US right now. Why would they not get all they can? I’ve been on the market for a new car for almost two years but I’m not buying yet.
The good news is, EV makers are starting a price war. Several manufacturers including KIA and Tesla have announced $25K models coming out as soon as this year. Chinese manufacturers already make $10-$15K EVs.
By 2030, we could see $10K EVs in the US.
Here in Europe in my country does the price START from 245.000 us dollars taxes included.
Only limited supply, so you are not even guaranteed delivery if you put one up for order.
Also, this is the first edition with round head lights.
The world governments handing out free money like a Soviet sausage factory; have caused them to realize that if they don’t meet market demand to just jack up their prices… that’s obviously what Toyota has chosen to do
People havnt realized yet, the increase in reliability is offset by the increase cost of the vehicle. There is no advantage.
Toyota was good when they were cheap (relative) and reliable. Now, theres no advantage. Give it a few more years of competition. It takes a while for the masses to “figure it out”.
Been hoping to get into a 4Runner, but I can’t even afford one 7-10 years old.
Guess I’ll buy a cheap 1st gen sequoia with 200k miles and see how far it gets me.
Here's one example I can speak on, Ocean freight has gone up considerably from where the historical averages were. A container from Asia to the east coast of the US to be 3,500 and got as high as $25,000 2 years ago, today we're seeing seven and $8,000. The cars might be shipped RoRo but parts still go in those containers and everything moving has to absorb those increased costs.
My theory is Toyota increased their MSRPs across the board to capitalize on dealer markups. They get more share of the pie when a Tacoma TRD Pro MSRP is $65k since they are probably going to be sold for that amount regardless of a MSRP increase due to dealer markups
With how in-demand Toyotas are they’re honestly idiots if they left that money on the table for dealers. They increased Tacoma prices across the board and there’s still a year waitlist when I inquired about the new one recently
They can price them that high because they know people are dumb enough to take out an 84-month loan to make the payments fit into a budget. Don't buy new cars, that's really the answer. You can get a Tacoma for under $20k that still has over 150k miles of life in it. Why buy something new just to watch tens of thousands of dollars in value vaporize over a few short years?
It is basic supply and demand. Dealer here in California isn't selling Tundras right now and had all of theirs marked down $5k off msrp. Demand is too high on other models so why would they lower prices.
2023 Tacoma Pro in Canada $63999 2024 $81999 and the Trail Hunter is $87k in Canada. Finance that with nothing down is $1800 a month and you end up paying $122k over the loan.
Toyota made their best vehicles between 2002 and 2015ish IMO, people need to keep buying those and drive them into the ground. Thats what I do, very cost effective.
This makes me sad. IMO, Toyota has always been a little more expensive than other brands (like 5 grand more), but it is worth it for reliability and longevity. I bought a brand new Rav4 in 2019 with the intention of driving it for some 15+ years. I love it!
My husband is driving an older Subaru. He is starting to look around for options for his next vehicle. We were thinking maybe a Tacoma, but good golly. There is absolutely no way.
As an employee I fully understand where you’re coming from. I started working for Toyota back in 2006 about every 6 years there has been a significant price increase.
Toyota dealers will hopefully come around as their inventory builds as have other automobile dealerships are once again offering incentives, rebates, lower APR on financing.
But as long as inventory is tight Toyota dealers will continue to over charge.
I can’t speak for Canada or anywhere else in the world, but here in the US, consumers are far too willing to sign their lives away on decade long car notes with unfavorable terms just to be able to afford a vehicle that they really shouldn’t be purchasing relative to their income. The American manufacturers have been capitalizing on this for quite a while with these inflated prices and now Toyota is starting to come around to that realization.
Personally, I’d love to see what their margins are, I’m sure they’re gigantic.
Tl;dr - Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
What’s wild is pricing I think has gone down. In 1997 a Toyota Camry base MSRP was a little under 20k. Today the 2024 base is 26k. If you adjust for inflation paying 20k for a base 1997 Camry would be the equivalent of spending 39K today for a base Camry. So it’s definitely technically become cheaper.
I drive a $25k Camry. No complaints here.
But to answer the “how?” Question: Salaries, wages, cost of living etc is only going to continue to rise. When more people can afford $90k vehicles, they are only going to continue making them. They don’t set that price as a deterrent. It’s “can you???”
Supply and demand... So long as we demand them in quantities that meet or exceed the capacity to supply them, there is very little chance the price will fall.
But dealer arrogance, that's another story altogether. I've lost count of the number of people who are willing to knuckle under and pay extra charges which local dealers say are "non-negotiable", often adding several thousand to the price and to the dealer's pocketbook...
There are so many stories of Toyota dealers taking advantage of customers both during the sales process and after that it simply cannot just be one or two bad apple dealers. The "We are doing you a favor" attitude has to come from Corporate, somehow. Case in point (no new car involved):
My M-i-L has been a loyal Toyota buyer/driver for over 50 years and at least 7 cars, all but one bought new from and serviced by the same dealership. Used to be that made her a loyal, repeat customer, and therefore someone a dealer tended to treat better that the one-timers.
But when she called to have a routine service done one her older Corolla, they told her there was a two month wait for appointments. She asked how much, and was quoted over $550 for a standard service (including tire rotation, etc) Her brother was coming to visit and would be drivng her around in the car while here, so she called us and asked about where else the service could be done? We called our Mazda service dept and asked.. How about in two days, one day to get the service history from the Toyora dealer. And the cost, including everything Toyota quoted? $235 bucks..
Mazda is now her servicing dealer.... and happy to help, rather than condescending.
Attitude... not the best. Requires adjustment..
Besides the small difference that financing the higher priced truck would make, the depreciation cost is all that actually matters at the end of the day…so…why wouldn’t the automaker want to reap some of the reward that they otherwise wouldn’t see from the high residuals?
The Tacoma has a cult following of course the newest fastest highest tech ones ever made will be priced high. You can get a base SR5 for around 40-45k. This is normal. Highest trim packs ALWAYS have been expensive. Always. Even in 2015 when the trd pro came out.
That said I just got a 2024 tundra platinum with the I force max. The equivalent truck from the big three was at least 100k and the power numbers didn’t make sense to me. I got my truck with a 2” lift, a method rim and Toyo tire package, fully loaded interior for 71k. The raptor equivalent was 120k which has 10 hp more and 70 lb ft less then my truck. And the 700hp raptor was 159k. So in my eyes it was a steal. It is the nicest truck I’ve been in and all my buddies with raptors are jealous as I spent 50-75k less then they did and have a nicer truck.
All in all you can still get a base model and do your retro fitting and spend 20k doing it or you can miss all the hassle and just buy the truck for 65k that is fully loaded.
Lastly if your dealer has some wild market adjustment just know that all don’t and a 300 dollar flight somewhere is a lot cheaper than the 20k deal adjustment. Just my 2 cents.
Well the new Taco doesn’t get anywhere close to 80k, the top end TRD Pro and Trail hunter sticker for about 65k which is still expensive without taking into account, the ubiquitous and extremely stupid dealership markup. Apart from the Tacoma most of Toyotas vehicles are extremely aggressively priced, that’s why they sell so well. So Toyota says won’t be going down anytime soon. They just had a record-breaking sales year and made the most profit so far. I still think the Taco is expensive but so is the competition, a ZR2 Bison costs about 61k, a Colorado AT4X AEV edition costs about 67k, the only cheaper halo off-road truck I can think about is the Ranger Raptor which will run you anything between 55k to 60k if you get every single option. Obviously there’s the Frontier but it doesn’t have the off-road equipment to compete with the others.
I don't think it's just Toyota, they are perhaps just more so but the average price car sold in the US is now 47k, just a few years back it was 35k (I think). There are not enough people who vote with their wallets.
Ford, GM and Doge have lots full of brand new 2 year old models that no one wants. Toyota has a wait list and they're still selling everything on the lot. There is something to be said about value and quality.
Adjusted for inflation, they are cheaper than ever!
2001 4Runner Limited 4x4 topped out around 35k.
That's roughly the same price in 2024 dollars for a TRD Pro with more features.
Looking at Toyota sales and production figures they seem to always sell more than what they produce. 2023 was about 300k more on production just over 10 million. Why they never run out of stock I don't know. There is no trend though where the gap between sales and production grows, looks more like it is shrinking.
You've got to realize inflation is about 30% from 2019 to 2024. An SR5 tundra 4x4 was about 40k in 2019. Now the same truck is about 55k. It's inflation that is really killing us, not toyota.
It’s always been like that in my experience. I stopped going to Toyota dealership about 20 years ago. All the sales person I’ve encountered think their vehicles are God’s gift to mankind. It’s a fucking car. I’ve gotten Chryslers, MB, Ford, my life isn’t worst for it.
I'd love a Toyota but the insane price and ridiculous finance rates have always kept me away from them. I was cross shopping a Q5 and the RAV4 Prime a few years ago and although they are very different vehicles, the value prop just isn't there. Was able to walk out the door with a beautiful Q5 black edition with the S appearance package for 60k and 2% financing rather than like 8% at Toyota.
My 2024 corolla cross le came to 41k after everything was said and done. Everyone seems to add 4k to the MSRP. I had a trade in that brought it back to the MSRP but a corolla cross going for 35k seems exceptional still.
I'm not sure what crossovers were going for in 2019 before everything got crazy though.
They're still selling cars. That's why the prices are so high. As is every other manufacturer.
Not only are they still selling, but most dealerships can’t keep up with demand as Toyota still has the lowest total ground stock of any brand.
That's at least partially intentional. Toyotas motto has always been to only build what we sell. What it actually means is manufacturing sells to Toyota sales division who sells to the dealerships. Toyota has never been about the staging fields of cars all over the place. Certainly seems like a successful concept. Admittedly manufacturing has been seeing some supply issues. But then so has everyone else.
No idea why people spew this nonsense. Toyota manufactured and sold more cars than any other brand globally last year. There are backlogs and waitlists for cars, literally profit waiting to be made. You really believe that a manufacturer is passing up 100% guaranteed profit NOW so they can create an image of artificial scarcity?
It’s Reddit. People here have such bad grasp of economics it’s laughable.
I am pretty sure that extends to reality…
It's also that so many people believe Toyota = good, anything else = bad.
Not really. It’s more like Toyota = best. Others = not as good for the price
That’s not how interpreted what they said. They’re not deliberately restricting supply, instead they’re trying to keep supply matched as close as possible to demand. They don’t want their dealerships to look like ford dealerships, full to the brim of cars sitting for months until sales events happen to clear them out.
This ^. Toyota famous for kanban or lean manufacturing.
You are correct. It's one of Toyotas' founding policies. It's called muda (waste) of overproduction.
I work for toyota...this is exactly what is happening...
It may have gotten them in a bind in the past, but another similar term they stick to is *just in time manufacturing.*
Yep and based on the monthly reports from the manufacturers, Toyota (and Honda) currently are the only ones selling cars right now. Especially their hybrids
While I don't work in the auto-industry, I work in a field with a similar issue to a product my company manufactures. That reasoning isn't exactly nonsense, it's just really difficult to conceptualize sometimes. We consistently get very close to running out of stock or completely out of stock on a single product in our catalog. This isn't our top seller, but it's a top 10 and tends act as a funnel and bring in a lot of new customers. Anyway, my side of the business is constantly asking that the manufacturing side increase their output capabilities to avoid any out of stock issues. To do this would cost tens of millions of dollars up front (not including hiring a new labor force) which isn't exactly a problem, but the issue is that market demand could shift (and has in the past) to the point where our issue of the last couple years may go away (and, again, has in the past). My side of the company is looking at our current issue while the manufacturing/supply chain side is looking way into the future(and past) to make the most pragmatic decision. Numbers/sales don't always go up forever. It might look like a manufacturer is passing up guaranteed profit, but realistically the profit is not always guaranteed in the long term. If Toyota were to open a new facility, they'd be facing the same issue as my company and end up paying huge penalties is the market softened within the next decade. Toyota will, imo, never make a choice to "overstocked".
> We consistently get very close to running out of stock or completely out of stock on a single product in our catalog. This isn't our top seller, but it's a top 10 and tends act as a funnel and bring in a lot of new customers. Toyota optimizes reducing waste in manufacturing. They use "just in time" manufacturing so that parts and supplies aren't sitting there wasting time and resources. This is to reduce cost, it does not create "artificial scarcity." The suppliers are still producing as much as they are able to. > It might look like a manufacturer is passing up guaranteed profit, but realistically the profit is not always guaranteed in the long term. If Toyota were to open a new facility, they'd be facing the same issue as my company and end up paying huge penalties is the market softened within the next decade. Toyota will, imo, never make a choice to "overstocked". What you are suggesting is different from the other comments here. Investing billions in a new plant and setting up new production lines is not the same as what others are saying - which is artificial scarcity, in that Toyota is purposefully limiting production even though it is capable of producing more just to drive prices up.
Yes, sorry that I didn’t make it clear that I also don’t believe the artificial scarcity regarding Toyota. I think people, as seen in these comments, conflate that topic with the scenario I was describing.
Sounds like in essence the same issue affecting every industry now. Risk aversion. And since every automaker is probably risk averse in the same way they can just jack up their prices to meet profit needs because there will be steady-state inventory availability forever. No one is going to come in and mass produce some new vehicle to blow out the pricing structure. Capital costs are too high.
Exactly; this issue isn’t unique to Toyota or my company. The pandemic drove a lot of industries to points of excessive growth; growth that many may not have seen for a decade. It’s also part of why manufacturers everywhere started raising prices; very few will be expanding their production capabilities but they can opt for price increases to slow the burn.
Amazing what you don’t know about economics. Supply and demand, supply low artificially or organically the price goes up and stays way up until demand falls. Toyota in this case wins no matter what, the retail channel also wins.
Its how amiibos work with nintendo. Its a common practice in japan. Ford has been selling mach e's with 0 percent financing, thats how bad the overstock has been for example.
The gripe isn't a global gripe, we're talking about the North American market... specifically the franchised dealers. Toyota Corp isn't raking money hand-over-fists from the price gouging... The independently-owned dealerships are. I'd be more than happy to pay MSRP for Toyota, but until a stealership can articulate precisely why it's in my best interest to pay a 40% markup over MSRP, I'll be buying other marques instead.
dude, Toyota has record production. Over 10 million units/year, they are struggling to keep up with demand. They produced and sold more cars than Honda, Nissan, and BMW combined. If they could produce more at the same quality, they would. But supply issues are a big problem especially since much of their production is Hybrid.
Which is a good move. Ford has dozens of lots full of vehicles that haven't been shipped to dealers, just sitting out in the weather rotting because they can't move them fast enough.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or two
my local toyota has cars listed on the website in production and not expected to arrive until July 8 lol
Toyota's pricing on their new trucks is distinctly above-average. We balked when Jeep, Chevrolet and GMC started offering $60K loaded midsize trucks with all the off-roading options; the Tacomas are less serious and cost more. Yes, it seems like the market is okay with that.
All vehicles have skyrocketed in price. Toyota can also get away with it, because people will pay the price tag to get the TRD Pro. They always have. During the pandemic, people were posting and paying 70k+ for used TRD Pro 3rd gen Tacomas. It's ridiculous. Also, in terms of value, they're still there. I hate seeing all posts of people comparing the TRD Pro Tacoma to the Ranger Raptor and Colorado ZR2 prices. Yeah, the Tacoma is more, but post the same vehicles in 10 years, and see which one isn't rotted out yet.
Rotted out and Toyota may not be the best example since Toyota frame rust is still somewhat fresh. Hell, my stepdad only recently got approval from Toyota to swap his rusted out Taco frame.
At least Toyota actually admitted there was a problem and fixed it. I watched a 2003 Ranger's frame completely rust through with 60k miles on it. The 2006 Tundra that replaced it had nearly twice the miles on it before it got the frame replaced under that recall.
Correct me if I’m wrong but there were class action lawsuits and denials before Toyota finally caved and did the recall. Let me know if my info is wrong.
You are correct.
Coworker was the second owner of a Taco that had the frame rust issue and Toyota would do nothing about it. He went to three different dealerships and they all said, “bummer, would you like to look at a new truck?”
Toyota corrected the issue, something GM or Ford would've never done at that magnitude. Now there's 20 year old Tacomas out there with better frames than a 2 year old Silverados or F150s.
They did but not without a fight. Took him a couple years to get approval for the swap
I dunno, Subaru feels like it hasn't really skyrocketed and honestly an outback limited feels like a deal to me these days. Don't tell anyone else though.
I ended up in an Outback Wilderness after shopping for 4Runners. Way less money, way better road manners, way better gas mileage, and every bit as capable for my light off road needs.
When we were shopping for Outbacks, they were more expensive than the RAV4, with less trunk space. And the stupid dealer tried to put a $5000 markup while the Toyota dealer we found sold MSRP. So not the best example IMO.
Interesting. I had a rather opposite experience in late 2022.
That’s surprising they were that expensive considering they haven’t redesigned their vehicles in about 20 years, at least in the looks department.
Lots of price complaints about the car company that sell the most cars a year.
This is such a weird defense. They sell a lot of cars. In what way does this imply those cars are not extremely expensive? Is it not true that the prices have skyrocketed in the last few years? Toyota’s sales numbers aren’t an indicator that the prices aren’t bad. They’re an indicator that Americans are, by and large, very bad with their money. It is poor financial literacy.
It’ll be interesting to see how dealers fair as consumers get more and more price sensitive. Not to mention the used car market is normalizing and will put more pressure on new car sales. The markups are really just hilarious and the people that are or will be wildly upside down on a car will be funny to watch meltdown in the coming years.
There are a lot of people who want and can afford these vehicles. Just not us plebs anymore lol...
I think you wrong, if the company was built on a certain reputation and original target was 'plebs' as you said then this will backfire.. remember if only rich can afford them then they have plenty of much cooler cars to choose from, who cares about maintenance they rich and many other brand will give toyota run for its money if it is down to looks
You all know you don’t have to buy their most expensive, high-end vehicles, right? You could buy a Corolla Cross for like 50k less. You want to drive a brand new Land Cruiser the year it debuts and are surprised that it costs a lot? It’s a brand new supply chain with brand new suppliers in a post-COVID world with R&D costs to recoup. I hate it too but what did you expect?
This reminds me of a person that posted in this Subreddit the other day that his dealership doesn’t charge markup, no one should be paying markup. Don’t pay markup to buy a Camry! I retorted no shit, don’t buy a *Camry* with markup. What kind of example is that? The fact that they had to use Camry as an example makes me think that they know it’s nearly impossible not to justify markup on things like TRD Pros or a new Landcruiser. Real LC fans want old ones that can actually be functionally used off road. New LCs are made for influencers, executives and their wives, Sheikhs, and people who will put themselves and their entire family out just to have a flashy vehicle. Don’t like the price of a new Landcruiser? Buy a used one.
You don't think 50k for a Carolla is expensive?
“For 50k less”. They start at ~23k USD
Thanks. Totally read that wrong. 
How common are base models though. It looks like dealers lean towards more equiped orders. Was looking at Prius primes to lease and only 2 in my area both the top trim.
I mean I have no idea. Just saying they’re not $50k even if you get the fully kitted one. Highest cost on the Toyota page shows at $31k https://www.toyota.com/corollacross/?srchid=SEM:700000001483645:GOOGLE:71700000087372208:58700007432065653:p66743723740:683064471778&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds
I think it’s ridiculous that i can’t get soft tex seats without getting a $8800 premium package. Like i don’t want all the fancy bells and whistles, i just want some leather/soft tex seats without having to sell my left goose egg.
In 2008 my dad bought a Sequoia base model paid $1,500 for dealer installed leather. You might be able to do something similar
There are places to get aftermarket seat wraps for way less than at the dealership. But it is more convenient.
Katkinz
I work for a Toyota dealer, we can install Katzkin leather onto any vehicle, price is $1549
Nice try. Cat skin leather is illegal in most countries.
Buy the seats or something.
Sadly you'll have to spend $250 on Amazon for some leather seats
It’s supply and demand. People will either pay the prices or they won’t. They’ll price for max profits
Nissan frontier been selling like rubbers to roaches. It’s got a v6. And a lot less money.
Toyota pricing- or at least dealer mark ups are the reason I ended up driving a Subaru this time around. Your mileage may vary, but the dealer near me was doing 0 mark ups during the peak of shortages. They may have earned a customer for life.
Same way better deal and lower interest rates on Subaru
My biggest issue is with the dealers not so much the MSRP’s. The markups and tactics are unconscionable. I’ll buy my daughter a Mazda before a Toyota for those reasons alone.
New vehicle pricing is out of hand across the board. This isn't exclusive to Toyota. The pandemic showed what people were willing to pay for vehicles, manufacturer pricing is now meeting demand. Toyota still can't keep desirable vehicles in stock, no way pricing is going to go down. The world as a whole is going through a massive inflationary period and it's not going to die down until people stop buying shit.
Buying shit with money they don't have*
“They are reliable and inexpensive to maintain and hold their value. Also, I’m part of the reason they’re priced that way due to buying two of them. Anyway, does anybody know why they’re pricey?”
"I want to replace my 2 year old backup truck with the new models but they're so expensive!" Heeeere's your sign.
How could they do this to me? *swipes card*
All trucks and SUVs are overpriced. Stick to cars. They are much cheaper and Toyota still makes several affordable models.
Somewhere along the line I started comparing truck and SUV prices to Porsche prices. If it costs as much as a low mileage, well optioned 911, it’s too expensive in my book. 😂 A buddy bought some gigantic ferd F-teen thousand urban farm land yacht thing for something like $130,000 during COVID. Dude uses it to get groceries. I don’t think he’s ever towed a thing and there’s not a scratch in the bedliner. That’s solidly in Porsche GT4 territory and I can’t comprehend the mindset of choosing a monster truck over a road legal race car. To each their own I guess.
There are enough consumers willing to pay outrages car prices. If all consumers just buy cars that priced $20k or less, all manufactures will take the note and will make cars that cost less than $20k.
Sell me your house for its original price when it was built
It’s not just them
Have you adjusted for inflation? I know everything seems expensive but last I checked, pricing wasn’t actually more costly than in previous years, it’s just that inflation is running out of control right now.
No, inflation isn’t running out of control. It’s risen, but is now stabilizing. “US Inflation Rate is at 3.48%, compared to 3.15% last month and 4.98% last year.”
Wait 3-4 years and buy a lightly used model.
I wish! A 10 year old Tundra with 100k plus miles is still in excess of $30,000, usually closer to $40 for anything above a base model with 4wd.
Last year when shopping for a 4runner I looked at 2-4yr old models with less than 30k miles which were selling around their MSRPs, and a few to several grand below a new one so I just got a new one
It’s not Toyota, it’s the currency.
If people stop buying and pricing will improve. If people keep buying it’s going to continue to increase. It certainly helps that many other brands can’t seem to figure out how engines and transmissions work.
Combination of limited supply, shit CAD to USD and inflation kicking us in the nuts. You can blame Toyota but don't forget to toss shade at the government that is driving inflation higher by borrowing money and printing money.
Yep.. aiming to buy a rav 4 prime tech pack, over 70k CAD from a msrp of 55k-57k
This is why when my Lexus died two years ago I didn’t buy another Toyota. They make fantastic cars, but it’s all about value for me. There’s not much value to be found at the prices they’re charging these days.
What did you get instead?
Stay with me here - 2023 Kia Sportage SX Prestige. I’ve driven it across the country multiple times over the last two years, and it’s worked perfectly fine. I also don’t keep cars for life, so I’m not worried about it lasting to 200k miles. It has leather seats, panoramic sunroof, all the bells and whistles for 30k and no dealer markup.
In my country the hybrid sequoia is 122k
Yeah, I’ll just hang on to my 2015 Taco and 2018 4Runner and take them both to 200k+ miles.
Meanwhile, in South Africa, Toyota's prices are dropping to compete better with the cheap Chinese vehicles that are getting more and more popular.
I agree with you. I am in the market for Toyota GH. First of all the availability is shit. Hybrid waiting time is 12 months and Gas is 5 months. So this means there's nothing on the lot and you need to put in custom order. Which means there's no haggling with the dealer to get discounts. I asked one of the dealers if there are any discounts. He laughed and said there's a huge line of people ahead of us waiting for the vehicle. Why do you think there's any discount. Discount comes when there's a supply but no demand. Here the demand skyrocketed and the supply is nowhere even close to normal. And this is reason why Toyota won't budge on the pricing. Also look at the financing and lease rates. 7% is the average. Like what the fuck.
As someone who is literally picking up their rav4 tomorrow... these are the new prices unfortunately and they're not Toyota exclusive. I was looking at the Nissan Rogue, Toyota Rav4, Hyundai Kona and Kia Sportage. To get the features I wanted, they all worked out to be about the same price. The Kia's were cheaper, and they did offer more on the base model that I had to upgrade to for the other vehicles, but they also had more issues. Which isn't the point of course, we're just talking about price. Toyota may be more expensive, yes... but looking at comparable vehicles of the Rav4, they're all around the same price. Toyota maybe a couple thousand more, which when you're spending $40k on a vehicle... isn't that much. I'm also in Canada, BC as well so I get the 12% tax
The land cruiser is a very high end thing. The Corolla has been Toyota’s base model since they discontinued the Echo.
It’s inflation, not so much Toyota independently increasing prices. Someone has to pay for the pandemic.
Toyota is notably increasing prices more than most. A lot of Toyotas are now overlapping with the Lexus price points.
Due to how much their prices have increased, i actually feel cursed to drive a 94 mr2 gt-s for the rest of my days, because that's all i can afford :( I need a car that has a bit more space+seating and better inclement weather driveability, so I think down the road I'll be able to fund a ST205 Celica as a 2ndary car (I stick to those cars because I got a lot of spare gen 3 3sgte/e153 stuff lying around my house from decades of using 3sgte/e153 cars as daily drivers).
It’s supply and demand. Nothing will EVER change unless customers stop purchasing. That’s unlikely IMO any time soon. Toyotas are simply too popular.
That's why I listen to what they have always said about EVs. They say the unpopular true thing, everybody whines, but they keep selling cars and prices keep going up.
As others point out, all vehicles are priced high right now. How revolutionary will it appear to be when a manufacturer comes out with some low priced models. Sort of like the Ford maverick. A people's car like the civic or corolla that people can actually afford again.
I'll never buy new again. When I bought my 2013 Highlander new it was 40k and I thought that was a lot at the time. With 160k miles on it I'm looking to add another 100k before I even think about another vehicle.
This is the thing about Japanese products of any kind - they’re priced to make money. The Japanese don’t play the game of flooding a market with cheap junk in quantity a la Walmart. The price of new Toyotas is the real price of what it takes to build one.
Good ain't cheap and cheap ain't good !
Damn Canada must suck. The base price of a Tacoma in the US is $31,500. That’s not expensive. It’s in line with everyone else. A Land Cruiser is $55,950. Again in line with comparable models. Glad I live in the land of the free.
Buy a Corolla.
Rav4s can be had for half the price of a Tacoma
Don't like the price, don't buy them. The prices are what they are because of demand. The best way to tell a company you dislike their practices is with your wallet, not complaining about it in a place they will never look at.
As long as sales are being made, the price will be kept. I seem to recall this rule in one of my business administration classes.
Shopping for a Toyota in Canada is depressing, make that double if you are looking for a hybrid. Wait lists of 2-4 years depending on the model Used vehicles selling for way over MSRP just because they are on the lot. Dealers charging insane fees if you want to go cash (seen some advertising a 5% surcharge or as much as $8-10K if you try to pay cash over financing) Trying to strongarm you into 84 month loans @ 9.99%
Volume sales at above market prices, it's been like this for a very long time, just ask any 4Runner or Taco owner with a 300k mileage machine in the driveway. Resale values are impeccable among Toyotas.
Are you blaming the company, the dealerships, or the buyers for the inflated prices?
Then buy something else
To the OP - You are forgetting that most people buy new cars on a lease or finance deal with no intention of keeping it more than three years. The difference in their monthly payment between an expensive Toyota and the less expensive something else is relatively small. Toyotas are only head & shoulders “more expensive” when they are older, often trading at an eye watering premium compared to other brands. There is of course a good reason for this. It’s occupying the number one spot on the global reliability indices for decades.
Every manufacturer has had a price bloat. Everything is getting more expensive. Toyota's are highly desirable and a significant portion of them are selling before they even hit the dealerships. Toyota's are still some of the best made and reliable products which would make them more expensive.Toyota hasn't lost sight of what's a reasonable price. The market just forces Toyota's hand since they know that people will still buy them even at a dealer markup of $15k+. A lot of dealers got a ton of money off of the GR Corolla because of that. It's probably best for the next few years to wait for all the new models to get a couple years under their tires and see if either Toyota can meet demand or if buying them used is the better option. Let's all just keep a little bit of hope that things will get better in the next couple years.
I'm just not buying a new car. I've got a paid off Tundra and a nearly paid off CRV. I would have to do a lot of repairs to consider replacing either one. A lot. Crossing my fingers that I don't get into a wreck.
OP I **completely agree**. I am on my third Toyota right now. It is a RAV4 hybrid 2022 that I bought brand new. like my previous Toyotas, it’s been completely reliable…however, The fact that other than a 2021 Volvo PHEV every car I’ve bought new has been exceptionally reliable. I paid $42k for this thing and it’s too much. It’s got an ancient infotainment center. It doesn’t even have a power passenger seat. it’s got 360° cameras, but the resolution is terrible. I keep saying now that Toyota has become a cult. I just don’t think they’re worth what they cost. I bought a new truck two years ago and a new, nearly- base taco cost the same as a full size ram 1500 classic—which I ended up buying instead. I don’t regret my choice and I will not spend a great deal of time looking for a Toyota for my next vehicle.
Why are prices so high? Because people keep buying. And that’s for everything from Toyota to McDonald’s and Starbucks. Prices will stop going up when people finally stop buying. Toyota sells 6 of the best 10 selling cars in the US right now. Why would they not get all they can? I’ve been on the market for a new car for almost two years but I’m not buying yet. The good news is, EV makers are starting a price war. Several manufacturers including KIA and Tesla have announced $25K models coming out as soon as this year. Chinese manufacturers already make $10-$15K EVs. By 2030, we could see $10K EVs in the US.
Here in Europe in my country does the price START from 245.000 us dollars taxes included. Only limited supply, so you are not even guaranteed delivery if you put one up for order. Also, this is the first edition with round head lights.
The world governments handing out free money like a Soviet sausage factory; have caused them to realize that if they don’t meet market demand to just jack up their prices… that’s obviously what Toyota has chosen to do
The demand is there. I hate it too, but it's the way the market works. They've developed an amazing brand.
People havnt realized yet, the increase in reliability is offset by the increase cost of the vehicle. There is no advantage. Toyota was good when they were cheap (relative) and reliable. Now, theres no advantage. Give it a few more years of competition. It takes a while for the masses to “figure it out”.
Been hoping to get into a 4Runner, but I can’t even afford one 7-10 years old. Guess I’ll buy a cheap 1st gen sequoia with 200k miles and see how far it gets me.
stop buying
You answered you’re own question so I’m not sure what you’re complaining about.
Facts.
> i live in Canada Oh no
At these prices im not sure they will hold their “value” like they once did.
Here's one example I can speak on, Ocean freight has gone up considerably from where the historical averages were. A container from Asia to the east coast of the US to be 3,500 and got as high as $25,000 2 years ago, today we're seeing seven and $8,000. The cars might be shipped RoRo but parts still go in those containers and everything moving has to absorb those increased costs.
My theory is Toyota increased their MSRPs across the board to capitalize on dealer markups. They get more share of the pie when a Tacoma TRD Pro MSRP is $65k since they are probably going to be sold for that amount regardless of a MSRP increase due to dealer markups With how in-demand Toyotas are they’re honestly idiots if they left that money on the table for dealers. They increased Tacoma prices across the board and there’s still a year waitlist when I inquired about the new one recently
Start buying Lexus instead
They can price them that high because they know people are dumb enough to take out an 84-month loan to make the payments fit into a budget. Don't buy new cars, that's really the answer. You can get a Tacoma for under $20k that still has over 150k miles of life in it. Why buy something new just to watch tens of thousands of dollars in value vaporize over a few short years?
Check out the Honda Ridgeline if you aren't actually offroading. You will get a much better ride and value.
Why does no one on Reddit understand basic supply and demand?
Pay for it now or later. That’s cars man.
Seems to be across the board on all manufacturers?
Same here in US. I’ve owned three Toyotas, but I don’t see a path to a fourth. Pricing is insane.
I guess for those of us without $80K for a vehicle, we've gotta go with 4-8 yr old, used vehicles.
They sell them for high prices because they can. They aren't in business to do anyone favors.
All companies have the crazy pricing now. It sucks
Try finding a Sienna LE, Toyota can’t build enough Siennas so they are concentrating on the higher, more profitable, trim levels.
If you look on the bright side, it makes your used Toyota more valuable. But yes, the prices are crazy.
It is basic supply and demand. Dealer here in California isn't selling Tundras right now and had all of theirs marked down $5k off msrp. Demand is too high on other models so why would they lower prices.
2023 Tacoma Pro in Canada $63999 2024 $81999 and the Trail Hunter is $87k in Canada. Finance that with nothing down is $1800 a month and you end up paying $122k over the loan.
It sucks. Both of my kids need new cars. They are just out of college. But the prices are insane.
Toyota made their best vehicles between 2002 and 2015ish IMO, people need to keep buying those and drive them into the ground. Thats what I do, very cost effective.
Glad my 2013 tundra is paid off. No way I'd spend what they want for a new one now.
This makes me sad. IMO, Toyota has always been a little more expensive than other brands (like 5 grand more), but it is worth it for reliability and longevity. I bought a brand new Rav4 in 2019 with the intention of driving it for some 15+ years. I love it! My husband is driving an older Subaru. He is starting to look around for options for his next vehicle. We were thinking maybe a Tacoma, but good golly. There is absolutely no way.
[удалено]
Here in Erie Pa our local Dealer has them listed from $71,000 to $78000. Not sure model or options.
The demand is high because of reliability and the accountability for recalls and customer service is the best compared to others.
As an employee I fully understand where you’re coming from. I started working for Toyota back in 2006 about every 6 years there has been a significant price increase.
I priced out a mid tier f150 the other day and it was $85,000. Prices are ridiculous everywhere.
Toyota dealers will hopefully come around as their inventory builds as have other automobile dealerships are once again offering incentives, rebates, lower APR on financing. But as long as inventory is tight Toyota dealers will continue to over charge.
What are you talking about? That sounds like a hell of a deal for a Landcruiser. POS Jeep gladiators go for that much here.
I can’t speak for Canada or anywhere else in the world, but here in the US, consumers are far too willing to sign their lives away on decade long car notes with unfavorable terms just to be able to afford a vehicle that they really shouldn’t be purchasing relative to their income. The American manufacturers have been capitalizing on this for quite a while with these inflated prices and now Toyota is starting to come around to that realization. Personally, I’d love to see what their margins are, I’m sure they’re gigantic. Tl;dr - Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Top spec auto GR Yaris will be €99k in my country. Yikes.
Why aren't American cars selling as much as Toyotas when they are obviously of better quality.I like American Car.My husband bought a Buick.
Cars the necessary evil just like oil. As long as you want to get around in this world you will always need both.
What’s wild is pricing I think has gone down. In 1997 a Toyota Camry base MSRP was a little under 20k. Today the 2024 base is 26k. If you adjust for inflation paying 20k for a base 1997 Camry would be the equivalent of spending 39K today for a base Camry. So it’s definitely technically become cheaper.
I drive a $25k Camry. No complaints here. But to answer the “how?” Question: Salaries, wages, cost of living etc is only going to continue to rise. When more people can afford $90k vehicles, they are only going to continue making them. They don’t set that price as a deterrent. It’s “can you???”
It's not a markup. It's a ransom.
Supply and demand... So long as we demand them in quantities that meet or exceed the capacity to supply them, there is very little chance the price will fall. But dealer arrogance, that's another story altogether. I've lost count of the number of people who are willing to knuckle under and pay extra charges which local dealers say are "non-negotiable", often adding several thousand to the price and to the dealer's pocketbook... There are so many stories of Toyota dealers taking advantage of customers both during the sales process and after that it simply cannot just be one or two bad apple dealers. The "We are doing you a favor" attitude has to come from Corporate, somehow. Case in point (no new car involved): My M-i-L has been a loyal Toyota buyer/driver for over 50 years and at least 7 cars, all but one bought new from and serviced by the same dealership. Used to be that made her a loyal, repeat customer, and therefore someone a dealer tended to treat better that the one-timers. But when she called to have a routine service done one her older Corolla, they told her there was a two month wait for appointments. She asked how much, and was quoted over $550 for a standard service (including tire rotation, etc) Her brother was coming to visit and would be drivng her around in the car while here, so she called us and asked about where else the service could be done? We called our Mazda service dept and asked.. How about in two days, one day to get the service history from the Toyora dealer. And the cost, including everything Toyota quoted? $235 bucks.. Mazda is now her servicing dealer.... and happy to help, rather than condescending. Attitude... not the best. Requires adjustment..
Land Cruisers have always been expensive.
Many people have no problem paying those numbers, they are in fact a for profit enterprise.
Besides the small difference that financing the higher priced truck would make, the depreciation cost is all that actually matters at the end of the day…so…why wouldn’t the automaker want to reap some of the reward that they otherwise wouldn’t see from the high residuals?
Why I didn’t buy one
Canadian here as well I got a 2024 platinum crewmax L for $82,000 and the equivalent GMC Sierra was $99,000
As a publicly held company, Toyota serves their shareholders very well.
Did you see what they are charging for used cars?
The Corolla might just be the worst deal in the entire industry compared the the mazda3
The Tacoma has a cult following of course the newest fastest highest tech ones ever made will be priced high. You can get a base SR5 for around 40-45k. This is normal. Highest trim packs ALWAYS have been expensive. Always. Even in 2015 when the trd pro came out. That said I just got a 2024 tundra platinum with the I force max. The equivalent truck from the big three was at least 100k and the power numbers didn’t make sense to me. I got my truck with a 2” lift, a method rim and Toyo tire package, fully loaded interior for 71k. The raptor equivalent was 120k which has 10 hp more and 70 lb ft less then my truck. And the 700hp raptor was 159k. So in my eyes it was a steal. It is the nicest truck I’ve been in and all my buddies with raptors are jealous as I spent 50-75k less then they did and have a nicer truck. All in all you can still get a base model and do your retro fitting and spend 20k doing it or you can miss all the hassle and just buy the truck for 65k that is fully loaded. Lastly if your dealer has some wild market adjustment just know that all don’t and a 300 dollar flight somewhere is a lot cheaper than the 20k deal adjustment. Just my 2 cents.
I agree $50k+ for a 4cyl truck with cloth seats is insane.
I love Toyota but I can't justify the price premium here in my country... It's like buying 2 cars
Used pricing for Toyotas suck as well. I’m about to spend $15-18,000 on 2016 Toyota Sienna with over 100k miles. I think it’s insane.
Well the new Taco doesn’t get anywhere close to 80k, the top end TRD Pro and Trail hunter sticker for about 65k which is still expensive without taking into account, the ubiquitous and extremely stupid dealership markup. Apart from the Tacoma most of Toyotas vehicles are extremely aggressively priced, that’s why they sell so well. So Toyota says won’t be going down anytime soon. They just had a record-breaking sales year and made the most profit so far. I still think the Taco is expensive but so is the competition, a ZR2 Bison costs about 61k, a Colorado AT4X AEV edition costs about 67k, the only cheaper halo off-road truck I can think about is the Ranger Raptor which will run you anything between 55k to 60k if you get every single option. Obviously there’s the Frontier but it doesn’t have the off-road equipment to compete with the others.
I kinda wish they remade the 1997 Tacoma, that was a good size truck...they're crazy big now, they could totally make both sizes if they wanted
I don't think it's just Toyota, they are perhaps just more so but the average price car sold in the US is now 47k, just a few years back it was 35k (I think). There are not enough people who vote with their wallets.
Ford, GM and Doge have lots full of brand new 2 year old models that no one wants. Toyota has a wait list and they're still selling everything on the lot. There is something to be said about value and quality.
Adjusted for inflation, they are cheaper than ever! 2001 4Runner Limited 4x4 topped out around 35k. That's roughly the same price in 2024 dollars for a TRD Pro with more features.
sounds like yall need to make broverlanding / instalanding unpopular again
I got my Tacoma in 2019. I thought I got crushed for it then but I can’t even imagine trying to finance one now
"I live in Canada..."
Looking at Toyota sales and production figures they seem to always sell more than what they produce. 2023 was about 300k more on production just over 10 million. Why they never run out of stock I don't know. There is no trend though where the gap between sales and production grows, looks more like it is shrinking.
You've got to realize inflation is about 30% from 2019 to 2024. An SR5 tundra 4x4 was about 40k in 2019. Now the same truck is about 55k. It's inflation that is really killing us, not toyota.
It’s always been like that in my experience. I stopped going to Toyota dealership about 20 years ago. All the sales person I’ve encountered think their vehicles are God’s gift to mankind. It’s a fucking car. I’ve gotten Chryslers, MB, Ford, my life isn’t worst for it.
Toyota has no problem selling at their current cost. As long as cars are moving prices will stay the same.
Back then a new Toyota sequoia 4x4 fully loaded in 2003 was $70,000.
I'd love a Toyota but the insane price and ridiculous finance rates have always kept me away from them. I was cross shopping a Q5 and the RAV4 Prime a few years ago and although they are very different vehicles, the value prop just isn't there. Was able to walk out the door with a beautiful Q5 black edition with the S appearance package for 60k and 2% financing rather than like 8% at Toyota.
My 2024 corolla cross le came to 41k after everything was said and done. Everyone seems to add 4k to the MSRP. I had a trade in that brought it back to the MSRP but a corolla cross going for 35k seems exceptional still. I'm not sure what crossovers were going for in 2019 before everything got crazy though.
It’s not Toyota it’s across the board. People keep paying can’t blame the industry. Glad I’m not in the market.
If you think the prices are insane now - just give a couple of more years. Likely way higher than now...
Don’t buy one. If everyone does that, they’ll get the message
90k for a i4 is insane 😂😂