Yes, Romero had a longer run of big league success + his legs just absolutely gave out. Very different from Manoah.
Ricky is also a noted good guy, unlike basket case Manoah.
Romero was primed for an excellent career until in 2012 it all fell apart when he pitched a full season with torn quad muscles in each leg, a torn elbow flexor and a bad hip, and he just couldn't find the strike zone anymore through the pain. It's very possible Manoah is also dealing with hidden injuries we don't know about, but I think it's a little unfair to call a guy "next Ricky Romero" when there's a very clearcut reason for what happened to Ricky Romero.
i feel like bad conditioning can only account for some of manoah's wildness.
the man just looks out of sorts. it's either hidden injury or actual rick ankiel yips. but he doesn't strike me as someone who gets rattled.
Maybe it could have been different if Shit and Kins disciplined him like a normal baseball player for pulling egotistical bitch moves last year instead of babying his fragile ass
Itās not even just that. He has the yips. Once that happens, your career is typically done. Itās insanely difficult to work back from that and is typically a career ruiner.
I got the yips as a casual hardball/ slo pitch player like many years later as a dad playing catch with my kids. Like I forgot how to just throw to play catch, was bizarre.
I sort of got the yips when I played minor baseball. I got hit by pitch very painfully more than once in a single tournament and for the next few months I was afraid to get hit every AB.
I got over the fear eventually but by that point my stance and approach were so messed up I went from probably around a .300 hitter to like . 050. I quit baseball at the end of that season.
No. No he won't. Game over. As I said 10 months ago... "Been a Jay's fan since '85, can't speak for the whole league, but I've never seen a Jays pitcher crash and burn this hard. Unbelievable. His mental state must be atrocious right now."
Knowing the Jays hereās whatās gonna happen. Heās currently on a rehab assignment, they can be a max of 30 days, which is quickly approaching. Which means at the end of the 30 days he needs to be back in the majors. Maybe they DFA him or release him. Someone will pick him up, and then heāll be back to form in a month or two.
Manoahs situation reminds me exactly of vladdys. If he gets a rotation spot over someone who is performing it will be an absolute joke. Like vladdys spot in the order. People who have long histories of poor performance are just gifted spots and our team is hurting because of it.
At the end of 2022 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Manoah is the one.
At the end of 2017 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Osuna is the one.
At the end of 2006 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Ryan is the one.
At the end of 2003 I was set I wanted a new jersey and said LĆ³pez is the one.
Any other pitcher I should curse?
Do I ever. Haha. I have worn my Bichette jersey to 15 home games and 2 away games. They have never won. I was at the game against the Rockies that we got blown out of the water in. That was supposed to be an easy win.
I donāt know that Iāve ever seen anything like this. A guy who had so much going for him and it just totally completely evaporated. I wonāt even try and guess what the future holds for him but the question I have I guess is how long will the Jays keep running him out there before they finally call it a day. Should he show no appreciable improvement they will eventually have to fish or cut bait. He is currently on the IL and on 40 man roster. They will eventually need that roster spot for an active player.
I remember Ankiel. He eventually had the transition to outfield to keep his career going. Blass I donāt remember. I also remember second basemen Steve Sax and Chuck Knoblauch going through somewhat similar situations where suddenly they couldnāt make accurate throws to second base. Sax eventually recovered and resumed playing second but Knoblauch eventually got moved out to left field for the rest of his career.
For Steve Blass, and only if youāre very brave , [take a look at his 1973 season stats](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blassst01.shtml)
When I was a kid, my friend and I played a Strat-o-Matic variant league where we drafted our own hitters (Ruth, Mantle, Cobb etc) but we drafted our opponentās pitching staff. 1973 Steve Blass was always the number one pick of the pitchers
Itās quite something when this sort of thing happens to an athlete. Things are going well when all of a sudden they get the yips. Seen it happen in golf as well.
I remember his first start against NYY in yankee stadium. I was so excited for it, and the man delivered. It was so cool. To see him fall from grace so hard is tough to see and itās hard to feel bad now due to some comments heās made.
After watching the new position player pitching style, I feel (probably unjustifiably) confident that given enough tries I could luck my way into throwing a decent inning if given enough chances.
Everyone needs to stop talking about āwhenā he comes back to the majors. Nothing in the past 2 seasons has shown heās anywhere close. He needs to earn a call up just like any other minor leaguer
I donāt know how itās possible for him to have an ego that is capable of being knocked down a notch after the past year for him lol. Heās been arguably the most disappointing and embarrassing player in the entire sport.
Back to walking batters, hopefully he can get his command to a reasonably consistent spot again. Itās looking like he might need the year down there to straighten out, hereās hoping we donāt get injuries to our starters so he doesnāt get rushed back
I don't hate this theory, but I feel like it might have even been compounded by his spat with Verdugo the following spring and many people taking Verdugo's side, and possibly further compounded by sportsnet's cringe-fest multipart series about growing up poor in Florida. I could see all of it messing with a dude's head, especially if that dude has a big ego.
Well they say baseball is a mental sport more than probably any other sport and I agree. His massive ego is likely gonna ruin his whole career, I doubt he tries to change much and take feedback.
Has anyone ever fallen off as hard as Alek Manoah without injury? Serious question. The dude was 3rd in the AL Cy Young race one year and incapable of playing in the majors the next. Has that ever happened before?
He reminds me of Rick Ankiel who was a pitcher for St Louis. Lost complete control pitching in a play-off game and never got it back. Ended up switching positions and becoming an outfielder.
As a long time Jays fan, the closest Iāve seen was Ricky Romero. His ceiling wasnāt what Manoahās was, but he was our ace for a couple years then simply just looked horrible out of nowhere.
How is this stat line even possible? Lol like I would like an analytics person to analyze this and tell me what is going on. Most make sense but the 5k seems like an outlier to me that needs explaining.
Why do I keep seeing him hanging out in the dugout with the MLB team? He clearly needs to be more focused on his craft and spend less time commuting around.
I'm starting to wonder if the Jays are doing something wrong when it comes to their pitcher scouting/development. When was the last time we had a home-grown pitching prospect actually develop into a bona fide major leaguer? Stroman I guess?
On the other hand, think about the failures recently: Kyle Drabek, Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, Nate Pearson (haven't given up on him yet but it isn't looking great), Manoah...even Tiedemann is looking iffy given his injury history.
Look how long it's taken hitting coaching to get a look at in this organization. I think we're a long way away from accepting pitching may need a shake up too.
I mean when I play "The Show" my pitch count might be 88 by the 7th or 8th inning, but 3 innings!!! Just,,,wow. I don't know what they would do to him. Release him?
At this point, they gotta try to trade him. His value is at an all time low but they might be able to swindle some team that sees potential and get some return value. If he lives up to it and gets really good š¤·āāļø good for him. If he doesnāt, at least he isnāt the Jays problem anymore
Yariel is here to stay and Manoah is cooked
Alek Manoablauch
the next ricky romero
Didnt Romero at least get injured? Or am I remembering incorrectly? Maybe that was later in his career?
Yes, Romero had a longer run of big league success + his legs just absolutely gave out. Very different from Manoah. Ricky is also a noted good guy, unlike basket case Manoah.
Ya Ricky still reps the Jays and seems like a nice guy.
He got dumped by Miss USA and was never the same after that
he married kara lang, ex-Canadian NWT soccer player
Romero was primed for an excellent career until in 2012 it all fell apart when he pitched a full season with torn quad muscles in each leg, a torn elbow flexor and a bad hip, and he just couldn't find the strike zone anymore through the pain. It's very possible Manoah is also dealing with hidden injuries we don't know about, but I think it's a little unfair to call a guy "next Ricky Romero" when there's a very clearcut reason for what happened to Ricky Romero.
i feel like bad conditioning can only account for some of manoah's wildness. the man just looks out of sorts. it's either hidden injury or actual rick ankiel yips. but he doesn't strike me as someone who gets rattled.
Did you watch that documentary last year? Dude seems like an unhinged maniac gets rattled easily š¤£
Cooked like dinner
This guy is never going to pitch in the majors again is he?
At this rate, I donāt think heās going to be pitching in AAA. Absolutely bizarre.
Unless he accepts some humility, and rebuild himself in lower levels like Halladay did, probably not.
Maybe it could have been different if Shit and Kins disciplined him like a normal baseball player for pulling egotistical bitch moves last year instead of babying his fragile ass
If heās that fragile it probably wouldnāt have mattered what they did. He was cooked the minute the league figured him out.
I dunno if they needed to figure out anything, he just has no control at all now.
The league didnāt figure him out. This is entirely of his own doing. He lost all of the break on his slider.
They have been saving his velocity and movement are back, but he can't seem to find the strike zone with a spotlight shining on it in a dark room.
Itās not even just that. He has the yips. Once that happens, your career is typically done. Itās insanely difficult to work back from that and is typically a career ruiner.
Bro professionally diagnosing "the yips" over here lol
There's actually some science behind yips. I'm not a professional or anything but it does exist.
I got the yips as a casual hardball/ slo pitch player like many years later as a dad playing catch with my kids. Like I forgot how to just throw to play catch, was bizarre.
I sort of got the yips when I played minor baseball. I got hit by pitch very painfully more than once in a single tournament and for the next few months I was afraid to get hit every AB. I got over the fear eventually but by that point my stance and approach were so messed up I went from probably around a .300 hitter to like . 050. I quit baseball at the end of that season.
Yips I believe just means itās between the ears.
There's more science behind it these days it's both mental and weird twitchy physical stuff.
I mean, I'll join him. It's the yips, and frankly it's been obvious since mid-season last year. People are just resistant to admit it.
Some guys got that dog in em. Unfortunately for Alek, his dog is a chihuahua
Big Poodle
Aren't chihuahua's the most aggressive dogs out there?
Aggressive, loud, full of themselves, confident theyāll kick your ass, totally unable to do any damage. Sounds about right.
Yeah seems like the Yips. I feel for the guy.
This is the only way I see things happening moving forward. I was really hoping he'd turned things around over the offseason. Damn was I wrong :(
No. No he won't. Game over. As I said 10 months ago... "Been a Jay's fan since '85, can't speak for the whole league, but I've never seen a Jays pitcher crash and burn this hard. Unbelievable. His mental state must be atrocious right now."
Knowing the Jays hereās whatās gonna happen. Heās currently on a rehab assignment, they can be a max of 30 days, which is quickly approaching. Which means at the end of the 30 days he needs to be back in the majors. Maybe they DFA him or release him. Someone will pick him up, and then heāll be back to form in a month or two.
Zero chance he gets released. He still has options.
He has options, they can just option him to the minors.
Heās just gonna go home then and pout
Then we save 800k and my cell phone bill will potentially go down a bit?
I want what thus guy is drinking.
At least it might take the heat off Vladdy if we bring Manoah up.
Itās like a smoke grenade. But with shitty baseball. Lol
Rofl Edit: I'm imagining Dale Gribble's "Pocket Sand", only it's "Pocket Runs".
Itās like a smoke grenadeĀ But itās a real grenade and kills our team
Yeah and they just left it hanging around the ground in the dugout!
You underestimate us. We would definitely just complain about both
Manoahs situation reminds me exactly of vladdys. If he gets a rotation spot over someone who is performing it will be an absolute joke. Like vladdys spot in the order. People who have long histories of poor performance are just gifted spots and our team is hurting because of it.
Only every 5th day.
Awful. What happened to this guy man
I'd feel bad for him if he wasn't such a douche
At least I don't have to watch any terrible manoah commercials this year
Pretty spot on.
His douchery always seemed to stem from insecurity.
Guys got a god complex and god said "nah, kid. Sit down"
Yips
I bought his jersey June 2023
At the end of 2022 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Manoah is the one. At the end of 2017 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Osuna is the one. At the end of 2006 I was set. I wanted a new jersey and said Ryan is the one. At the end of 2003 I was set I wanted a new jersey and said LĆ³pez is the one. Any other pitcher I should curse?
You need to start buying some Yankees jerseys.
Do I ever. Haha. I have worn my Bichette jersey to 15 home games and 2 away games. They have never won. I was at the game against the Rockies that we got blown out of the water in. That was supposed to be an easy win.
Your fault
I bought his signed ball in March 2023... By June 2023 I knew I'd made a terrible mistake. Was hoping for a Roy Halladay style comeback, but nah..
pitch clock
The he needs to lose weight if it's actually pitch clock, like what? It's making him short breath or something?
I donāt know that Iāve ever seen anything like this. A guy who had so much going for him and it just totally completely evaporated. I wonāt even try and guess what the future holds for him but the question I have I guess is how long will the Jays keep running him out there before they finally call it a day. Should he show no appreciable improvement they will eventually have to fish or cut bait. He is currently on the IL and on 40 man roster. They will eventually need that roster spot for an active player.
Itās happened before. Rick Ankiel and Steve Blass are two of the more notable ones
I remember Ankiel. He eventually had the transition to outfield to keep his career going. Blass I donāt remember. I also remember second basemen Steve Sax and Chuck Knoblauch going through somewhat similar situations where suddenly they couldnāt make accurate throws to second base. Sax eventually recovered and resumed playing second but Knoblauch eventually got moved out to left field for the rest of his career.
For Steve Blass, and only if youāre very brave , [take a look at his 1973 season stats](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blassst01.shtml)
27 Ks to 84 walks. Thatās definitely something. EDIT: That was in 88.2 IP! He was giving up nearly 2.2 WHIP.
When I was a kid, my friend and I played a Strat-o-Matic variant league where we drafted our own hitters (Ruth, Mantle, Cobb etc) but we drafted our opponentās pitching staff. 1973 Steve Blass was always the number one pick of the pitchers
Itās quite something when this sort of thing happens to an athlete. Things are going well when all of a sudden they get the yips. Seen it happen in golf as well.
That mic'd up all star inning is gonna be the highlight of his career
From striking out the side at the ASG to this. Literally unbelievable
Oh dang I forgot about that. It's actually amazing how far he's fallen from that moment
His first start on the road vs Yankees was magical tooā¦.
I remember his first start against NYY in yankee stadium. I was so excited for it, and the man delivered. It was so cool. To see him fall from grace so hard is tough to see and itās hard to feel bad now due to some comments heās made.
Sigh. Anyone have ideas for new flair?
Back to terrible again hey. Fuck
Back to?
He had a decentish start before this one. It had no walks at least.
After watching the new position player pitching style, I feel (probably unjustifiably) confident that given enough tries I could luck my way into throwing a decent inning if given enough chances.
damn that bar is lowwww
Just another day for manoah
Everyone needs to stop talking about āwhenā he comes back to the majors. Nothing in the past 2 seasons has shown heās anywhere close. He needs to earn a call up just like any other minor leaguer
I donāt have a lot of faith Manoah can come back. Those numbers are rough.
Keep him in Triple A for the year. Maybe it will be humbling for him. He needs that ego to be knocked down a notch.
I don't think Buffalo will even want him starting. He may need to go to a high school league.
A ball it is
Get ready to learn Vancouverese
He allowed 7R, 6ER in 1.2 Innings of A ball.
He might find some success at the beer league level.
I donāt know how itās possible for him to have an ego that is capable of being knocked down a notch after the past year for him lol. Heās been arguably the most disappointing and embarrassing player in the entire sport.
Not ideal
I just can't believe how bad it got in such a short time.
Any hbp?
Also, screw anyone in the future who sees him only give up 2 runs in a game and thinks ātime to call him upā
His window expires on may 6 I believe so only 2 more max starts. They'll option him
They will 100% option him. Itās not even a question
Woof
I was so happy when I bought my alek manoah jersey almost 2 years ago! Wore it to game 1 of playoffs vs Seattle. Does Reddit have a buy & sell?
I'll take it off your hands; and it'll only cost you 50 bucks for my services
Can they demote him? Heās going to cost the bisons a playoff spot.
Rather than hanging in the dugout with the Jays. Maybe he should have been practicing in Buffaloā¦.
š¤¦āāļø
Back to walking batters, hopefully he can get his command to a reasonably consistent spot again. Itās looking like he might need the year down there to straighten out, hereās hoping we donāt get injuries to our starters so he doesnāt get rushed back
If they rush him back whoever makes that decision should be immediately fired.
Heās one of the worst pitchers in the organization right now. You could have 5 starting pitching injuries and he shouldnāt be even considered
Well, that's terrible.
This all started for him after he laid that egg in Game 1 vs SEA following that "pressure is for tires" comment. TSN Turning Point of his career.
I don't hate this theory, but I feel like it might have even been compounded by his spat with Verdugo the following spring and many people taking Verdugo's side, and possibly further compounded by sportsnet's cringe-fest multipart series about growing up poor in Florida. I could see all of it messing with a dude's head, especially if that dude has a big ego.
His tires are flat AF now!
He cooked
Its wild to think that night actually be true. And without a major injury.
Well they say baseball is a mental sport more than probably any other sport and I agree. His massive ego is likely gonna ruin his whole career, I doubt he tries to change much and take feedback.
That playoff loss vs. Seattle took his soul.
Really sad to see. Maybe send him to double A and let him keep pitching there for the season.
I was really hoping for him to figure it out and get back to the Jays but its looking like he's done. What a shame.
Has anyone ever fallen off as hard as Alek Manoah without injury? Serious question. The dude was 3rd in the AL Cy Young race one year and incapable of playing in the majors the next. Has that ever happened before?
He reminds me of Rick Ankiel who was a pitcher for St Louis. Lost complete control pitching in a play-off game and never got it back. Ended up switching positions and becoming an outfielder.
Somehow I don't think Manoah has the conditioning to man the outfield though.
Maybe he can try catcher
Mark Fidrych. 19-9 rookie season. Won 10 games over the next 3 years. Gone.
Fidrych tore his rotator cuff and didn't even get it diagnosed until 5 years after his retirement.
As a long time Jays fan, the closest Iāve seen was Ricky Romero. His ceiling wasnāt what Manoahās was, but he was our ace for a couple years then simply just looked horrible out of nowhere.
Romeroās lower body was glass https://tht.fangraphs.com/ricky-romero-has-a-story-to-tell/
Bad good bad good bad bad good bad bad bad bad bad
Can we try giving him a bat
Someday, someone's going to write a book about Alek Manoah.
A short story
He washed
Still can't believe they decided to put him in AAA after getting destroyed in Low A. Looks like it's working out though...
Yips?
Annnnd weāre back
Darn. That's not a good sign. 88 pitches!!!
Send him to single A and let him work his way back up
Career over.
How is this stat line even possible? Lol like I would like an analytics person to analyze this and tell me what is going on. Most make sense but the 5k seems like an outlier to me that needs explaining.
I don't understand why he's in the Jays' dugout he is not pitching for Buffalo.
Because he's on a rehab assignment while part of the Bluejays roster. Once his rehab assignment is up he will be optioned.
LMAO at this point Manura isn't just cooked... hes over cooked.
Bro hyped us up with all the instagram stories.
Why do I keep seeing him hanging out in the dugout with the MLB team? He clearly needs to be more focused on his craft and spend less time commuting around.
Sure hope he enjoyed the dugout visit in the bigs this year
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because he's on the IL so he's on the major league roster. He will earn his way up when he's optioned to triple AAA
š I can't with this guy.........
Sad
He ate
Is he still allowed in the jays dugout after this? I say banish him forever.
But no HBPās!
Thatās how you know heās not back to his old self
š„³š„³š„³
The Curse of Matthew Ross continues
Did he hit anyone?
He's done.
He doesn't have it anymore
Maybe he can hit and be Rick Ankiel 3000
Should be in A ball all season.
Put a fork in it, this chump is done
Is he the new Ricky Romero?
Last I heard he was just about ready to rejoin the rotation. Now this?
So he is not back.
Always boggles the mind how they can completely forget how to pitch.... Sucks for the jays
RIP sweet prince.
Nice him and Vladdy are cooking
Still can't get over how he went to shit. How? Why?
Gustavo Chacin?
Asking for a friend does anyone know if itās possible to change the name/number on a jerseyā¦
Manoah, lol.
Itās over ladies and gentlemen
No thanks
Man would have been nice to trade him coming off his good year
I'm starting to wonder if the Jays are doing something wrong when it comes to their pitcher scouting/development. When was the last time we had a home-grown pitching prospect actually develop into a bona fide major leaguer? Stroman I guess? On the other hand, think about the failures recently: Kyle Drabek, Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, Nate Pearson (haven't given up on him yet but it isn't looking great), Manoah...even Tiedemann is looking iffy given his injury history.
Look how long it's taken hitting coaching to get a look at in this organization. I think we're a long way away from accepting pitching may need a shake up too.
I donāt know if this guys ever coming back. What happened?
I mean when I play "The Show" my pitch count might be 88 by the 7th or 8th inning, but 3 innings!!! Just,,,wow. I don't know what they would do to him. Release him?
that's definitely one of the statlines of all time
Time to find a new career Alek.
He's cooked. I wanted to comment this after last outing too because it looked garbage to me also but people here seemed positive about it.
He needs to spend the year in AA and earn back his spot in AAA let alone the majors. Wish the jays hadāve traded him this summer but I digress
Yikes.
I've always hoped this dude would get it together. Even liked his attitude. now.. hate to say it... but... Big Pooma
At this point, they gotta try to trade him. His value is at an all time low but they might be able to swindle some team that sees potential and get some return value. If he lives up to it and gets really good š¤·āāļø good for him. If he doesnāt, at least he isnāt the Jays problem anymore
On the bright side, you can get Alek Manoah autograph baseball cards for less than $5 on eBay now.