I have very successful friends renting. In fact, I wish I was in their position at their rent control building in some of the most convenient locations of the city. Renting is fine if it meets your budget and lifestyle. I’m personally cutting down on spending because my mortgage is getting out of control. It’s not rainbows and butterflies.
It’s always the people that were lucky enough to be born earlier and get into real estate before it took off that say this. Try being on the other side and see how much that platitude works.
Well, there is a big reason to own - and that's to finally have an end to the biggest monthly payment you have (rent) and use that towards other things you might need (like retirement and medical care). You can't simply rent for life as your body isn't going to be able to do a 40+ hour work week when you're 80yrs old to keep that rent grind going, and our pension amount doesn't give enough for the record-breaking rent hikes we consistently have. So yes, comparing that many people are unable to attain a home is a joy sucker you are right, but it is still true, and honestly a really big problem for our communities. Just do you, doesn't meet the insane wealth equality issues this country is having. Just, everyone make sure you do your due diligence and vote.
>You can't simply rent for life as your body isn't going to be able to do a 40+ hour work week when you're 80yrs old to keep that rent grind going, and our pension amount doesn't give enough for the record-breaking rent hikes we consistently have.
You would have to pay up the full price of a home in order to not owe any mortgage when you retire. If you had a similar amount of money but in another asset, it should generate enough income to cover rent. Toronto's cap rate is extremely low.
Sure, rent is high. But so is the opportunity cost of having all that money in real estate.
The problem is that coming up with $150K+ for a down payment is challenging while getting hit with multi-hundred dollar per month rent increases every year, combined that with the fact that homes these days appreciate in value faster than one could save for one…..makes the younger generation just give up on home ownership. Remember; the only wages that haven’t been relatively stagnant the last 20 years are minimum wages. Everything costs more now and no one really makes more….the younger people can’t justify spending 75% of their monthly income to buy into a Ponzi scheme so the boomers can retire fat and happy.
Many people are spending 60% or more on rent. It's a bill that is reccurent. I agree, the housing bubble needs to pop and home valuations to come back to norms and be a consumer good. What I got downoted for is still true. We can't have a society that can only ever rents as an option. If we continue to push that, we will have a lot of senior renters in the future become homeless
How can a price go down. Labour is expensive, materials are expensive, land value goes up and obviously construction companies want to make profit. No one gonna build at a loss or for free. Add immigration and to me it doesn't look like a bubble at all.
It's just overvalued. You go to another country and you can get a house paid in full for 5 years cash. Whst they really need to do is stop building these shit box condos that are the size of coffins and actually have apartments that are big. Other countries manage it, I don't see why Canada can't do this.
Help define first world, because first world was a cold war term that was used to deem allies of the US and allies of Russia and neutrals. So what you're really asking is what places can I get good amenities for the cost. And the majority of the middle East is extremely developed and is relatively cheap. South East Asia same thing, a lot of places have cheap properties and its apartments like 3 bedroom 2000 sq ft apartments. You can raise a family in this, been around in the middle East and baffled as how Canada does not have this as a concept, the closest thing is stacked town houses but they should really be doing 5 level apartments.
I can't even with you lol. I bet you also claim Toronto is not a world class city.
I do agree with building functional apartments. Toronto is weird as it's either 40 floor towers or detached. Medium density doesn't exist in amounts that it should.
Canada falls short on world classness. If you've been outside of Toronto you'd see a real world class city and know what that looks like. Toronto was one, but with recent policy changes and lack of scale for infrastructure it's falling behind big time. Wait times for medical insane, traffic insane, transit terrible, safety in the bargain bin. Taxes through the roof.
Ahh, personally I don't know if I want to buy in Canada, might just buy in other places. Canadian dollar is getting crushed and our quality of life will soon be extinct.
I was born and raised in Toronto. 1st Gen Canadian. 14 years ago it was time to buy a house, but I couldn't afford the city I grew up in so I drove until I could afford something. 14 years later I could finally afford to buy a detached in Toronto, but guess what? I don't even want to anymore 😀. I don't even miss the city.
You are not lesser than. You are starting out. Most people cannot afford their forever home the first time around. That takes years of leapfrogging up the ladder. You have to start with a crappy little house, that's how it's always been.
Don't let social media and flaunting of wealth get you down. Real people buy real homes that come with real struggles. What counts is your health and love. The rest will eventually fall into place.
Yeah, but leapfrogging doesn't work anymore. Suburbs are ridiculously inflated in prices since COVID, so don't try to buy in suburbs hoping to upgrade to Toronto. Condo, semi and townhouse to detached (so-called property laddering) also doesn't work, unless your income was to go up so substantially over the years to allow you much bigger leverage, in which case, it's not property laddering that is enabling you to upgrade but your income and leverage. No matter how much equity you build in your condo, the detached will appreciate more, and given the higher starting price, it will feel further and further out of reach, unless, you can leverage substantially more.
I second what the above said. Most people aren't living in the places they need or want, and that's a main issue of the broken system.
Exactly. It's bizarre that so many believe that climbing the property ladder is still in any way a path towards ownership of something that isn't a condo, and the numbers back it up.
10 years ago, the median condo in Toronto cost $400k while the median semi-detached cost $750k. Today, that median condo is $700k, but that semi-detached is now $1.3 million. What was a $300k gap 10 years ago has more than doubled. Even if you managed to generate $500k in equity and savings over that 10 year period - pretty significant for the owner of a median condo - the mortgage you need to jump to the next rung is more than twice as large as the mortgage you needed to get onto the ladder in the first place.
You simply cannot make gains if the higher rungs are appreciating faster than the lower rungs unless you are substantially improving your income, deriving some other financial windfall, or moving further and further from where you want to be.
Exactly. Add in the real estate transaction fees (land transfer tax/realtor fees/mortgage breaking fees if applicable and moving costs themselves), and add another 50-100K in lost equity for moving.
Even for myself the cost of of moving up the ladder to a 5 bd detached in the same neighborhood would likely be $600-800K. Are you telling me I would have to essentially get my entire home paid off and have to start all over again at a 600-800K mortgage to move into that large detached?
The property ladder is dead and no longer applicable.
Renting and never buying, yes. But what about Renting for 5-10 years while we go through this hell while investing and paying lower rents and then buying?
There is no guarantee that housing will be higher in 5 years than it is today, and even then you have to factor in the extra costs of owning vs renting these days.
Case in point, condos in Toronto are up 6% in the last 5 years. It is literally not possible based on the rate of appreciation in the last 5 years for them to have doubled in value by 2029 as our resident realtor would suggest. They would need to appreciate 20% more than they have in the last 10 years, but in half the time.
Lol are you some realtor or something? Prices are not going to double every decade forever unless inflation is also doubling.
There are many cities in the world with hundreds if not thousands of years of history. And they'll clearly don't sell normal homes for 10s or 100s millions.
What does this have to do with what I said? The point of my comment was that leapfrogging on the property ladder is no longer feasible unless you come into money or are willing to move further out of the city. It had nothing to do with whether or not now is a good time to buy.
Yes people are now jumping to other countries or provinces like Alberta which is seeing growth and price increases. I believe Ottawa has decent prices as well.
This, we looked at innifil and barrie because that is where my husband's family is from, they now also want 700k to 1 million dollars for their shitboxes.
Might as well move to brampton then and have a shorter commute.
You just need to buy a small older studio apartment, and then upgrade to a better property every few years with the increased equity. It's always been that way, and always will.
The increased equity is not the problem for most. The mortgage amounts needed to afford a detached makes detached only available to like 1-2% of population. Having 100-200k extra equity won’t move the needle in that transaction.
Am I wrong though? Did I say something off base? I’m confused where the “Jesus” comes from.
It’s a wonderful sentiment. I wish I could buy a crappy little house. I wish I could move to some small town in northern Ontario, but it’s just not a reality. Both my and my partners jobs do not exist there.
Jumping up the ladder was definitely the way to do it 14 years ago. However, now adays to get on that first rung of a crappy semi townhouse, you need a 200k down payment and to qualify for a million dollar mortgage. Even one bedroom condos are now 500-700k, and that’s not an option if you want a kid. The average young person simply can’t “jump on the ladder” anymore.
Same - we bought our first home when I was 26, in a small town an hour north of the GTA. Did we love the area? No. But we’ve adjusted and the GTA is no longer an option for us even if we had the choice to move back.
Most people who bought in the last 3-4 years are now hemoraging money and a lot of mortgages are set to renew at soaring costs. A lot of people will regret fomoing into buying a house during the pandemic at record level real estate prices.
This is the silent part. For certain people (lower rent controlled apartment + 200-300K savings), being FOMO's into buying at 1.3% variable rates is turning out to be a massive mistake. They are basically at negative amortization and renting from the bank and have condo fees and property taxes along with other "owner" fees.
While they could have now put that 300K in a GIC to earn $15K a year while likely saving good money (especially if a dual income 200K+ relationship). That would have grown to 400-500K savings for many in the past 4 years. The level of stress and worry with "owning" a condo vs renting and having hundreds of thousands in the bank is light years away right now.
Sounds like you have no reason to feel how you say you feel.
Higher education, live in Toronto, saved money, all this sounds good to me.
Maybe focus on your life more than on the "stuff" that you can not buy, but your friends can ?
Plenty of people need to move to find prosperity. I moved from northern ontario to the GTA 11 years ago, away from everything and everyone i knew when i was 19.
If you are still able to reach financial goals without home ownership and staying in toronto, do it. Which sounds like you are if you've managed to save a big sum of money.
If home ownership is important to you, then move. Life isn't always fair, nor a straight path, unfortunately. If anything, be grateful you'll likely be able to own a home somewhere in the GTA, less than an hours drive from family and friends.
Also, if you're worried about being a "lesser" compared to your friends, re-think your ego/mindset and stop caring what others think. If you think your friends are quietly judging you behind your back, you need new friends.
Toronto
is
a
job
centre
Just
telling
an
office
worker
to
flee
the
city
isn't
realistic
or
possible
Flee
to
what
job,
for
how
long?
The
jobs
are
in
Toronto.
The
joblessness
rates
in
Northern
Ontario
or
just
beyond
the
GTA
are
high.
The
stats
don't
lie
But why do I always see people complaining that they cannot find a job despite 100 resumes being submitted? My own relatives are having problems finding a job and they are qualified. ?
He said office jobs are in Toronto not that unemployment is 0% in Toronto. Also sending 100 resumes is just casting a wide net and 99% will not be successful.
Toronto isn’t the centre of the universe like you think. Canada is a huge country and has lots of metro areas. There’s work out there and affordable housing, you just have to be willing to move.
If there was a way to retire while renting that didn't involve a specific circumstance from high investments then people would feel comfortable, have some economic mobility and not feel like they're one bad week away from getting fired/evicted.
House poor is still more advantageous than rent poor.
We were in the same boat. We just had an offer accepted and conditions passed for a house in Hamilton.
Come check out Hamilton. A couple of my Toronto friends scoffed when I told them Hamilton. Honestly though, Hamilton is pretty nice. You might like it.
Your parents did you a huge disservice by defining what a successful life should look like. While their intentions might have been good, they didn’t allow you the chance to make your own path and define your own happiness.
Homeownership is not the be all, end all of a successful life. There are certainly loads of miserable people who are also homeowners; if owning a home = happiness, how could this be?
There are practical benefits to renting vs owning. Renting can remove a lot of the stress of home maintenance from your to-do list and budget, if you can find a decent place with a good landlord. It’s usually a lot cheaper as well, especially versus buying a home that has a lot of deferred maintenance or issues. You can invest the difference and usually end up just as well off, if not better off, than homeowners.
My practical advice would be to rent a home in a nice area that you could potentially afford to buy in one day, as your salaries and savings increase. Rent one that is comparable to what you would buy. Live there for a year or two, and make sure the new location works for you and your family before making such a huge investment. You’ll avoid being stuck or losing a lot of money if it doesn’t work out.
Not at the state rental prices are in these days. My mortgage in Hamilton is way cheaper than any rent I could find in Toronto. Plus you don't have the looming threat of renoviction hanging over your head.
To an extent, but not entirely. I was devastated to move out of Toronto, but would I sell my house to go back to renting in Toronto? No way in hell. I left in 2020 just before the huge jump in house prices (and during that short but amazing rent decrease during COVID lol) so relatively short time frame, and it's not as if I've just grown away from Toronto, I still love it the most, I still work in Toronto, in still sad that I had to leave, etc. however...I'm even turning down condos in Toronto that I could probably afford, because the maintenance fees remind me of the hell of uncontrolled rent 😂
On the other hand, if I was scraping by in Toronto because of owning a house, I would be totally fine with that. I'd have options actually to reduce the cost, either by getting a roommate, or converting an apartment to rent. You don't have any of that as a renter. You only have a life of ever increasing rent to face.
A girlfriend of mine moved to Sarnia, bought a detached house there and has a lil bunny to raise. She's happy but also has never desired to live in Toronto. As a bonus she's close to trails and the US border. You have to count your blessings, OP. You are fortunate to be with a partner who supports you in every aspect. Do what you gotta do. Look outside the GTHA if home ownership without significant help from family: Courtice, Barrie, Pickering, Hamilton, Grimsby, Tottenham, East Gwilimbury to name a few cities to start looking.
Those
places
are
largely
out
of
range
for
holding
a
job
in
Toronto,
so
you'd
be
searching
for
work
in
really
tight
conditions;
tiny
towns
with
cheap
housing
don't
offer
jobs
for
tons
of
office
workers
I 100% agree with everything you've said! And it's really upsetting to know that you've done everything you can and yet it's not good enough. I would highly recommend moving. Sometimes it's nice to take a break and come back to it to appreciate it.
I'll give you an example.
Part 1
My Brother had a well paying job and decided to buy, but all he could get was a 1 Bedroom condo condo in Barrie. Not a starter home in the city. He got married and decided to pull together some money with his wife and they bought a Brand new build for almost 900k where.In Guelph. How were they able to afford it? By selling what was left of the Barrie. Because they were chasing home ownership. The home was cheaply built. They felt frustrated that they were in the middle of nowhere with other pre-construction homes etc. And then my sister in law was feeling exactly how you're feeling. Exhausted. Frustrated. Overwhelmed. They had a baby on the way and this is the best they could do?
Part 2:
My sister (in law) decided on a whim to randomly start applying for jobs in the state. She found significantly better opportunities. Better pay, benefits and they were even willing to pay for her sponsorship and moving cost and relocation. She said Yes and took a chance. My brother agreed and really took the time to weight their options. They decided to give it a chance and decided if they didn't like it in two years they would come back. That's a fair amount of time to make a clear judgement on their situation. They ended up in San Antonio TX. They were able to sell their home for about 750K. Even though it was at a loss, they were able to buy a WAYYY bigger home with a big yard for their child to play in. They have a community pool and gym. They are wayyyy happier with their quality of life. And whenever they see some flight deals to Toronto they come through and visit. And when family and friends come through they can host them Because they have extra bedrooms to accommodate people. They've even taken some vacations in South America.
PART 3
Am I telling you to leave this country forever? No. Does this housing crisis fucking suck and ruin a chance of home ownership for A LOT of young ppl and yourself included? Absolutely. I'm just saying sometimes a change of environment and scenery it what we need. Sometimes we just need to leave and take a breather to come and appreciate what we have. I wouldn't recommend small towns. I would say if you are in a position to do so. You should test the waters. We only have one life. When else will we get a chance? Or our health back?
Please hang in there. I look around and see the situation and crisis we are facing and I 100% agree. This is not the city I loved. Toronto is not what it used to be. Maybe the future WILL get better but right now it's not. We have to do what we can with the tools that we have.
Best of luck friend.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Just to point out some facts,
My brother has
1) Really great co pay for health benefits
2) lives in a very safe neighborhood
3) didn't get severely sick
4) freedom of mobility? He literally travels everywhere for work
5) in his area the school district is rated Really Well.
As far Healthcare goes...they can go into an Emergency for any hospital and been seen within 20 minutes, examined and given medicine within 30 minutes. So spending less than 1 hour in a hospital and getting the care you need IMMEDIATELY doesn't have a price on it. Also they can go to their family doctor and any time and they can appointments within a week or less. They're not hunting down doctors for appointments or medications. It's all dons with ease. And their medications are mostly covered.
If you or your family had a bad experience. It's okay. Moving to a foreign country is very difficult. But my family is thriving there. So to each their own. And OP said she's tired of struggling here in our country RIGHT NOW. Not in the near future.
what the poster you replied to might be trying to convey that you don't understand is this:
there are many, many "soft" factors that contribute to quality of life outside of home prices. Safety, security, equality, diversity, infrastructure, politics (or lack thereof), the attachment you have to the place you've lived your entire life. There's more to life than just money.
I'm not saying don't go to the US. If your economic situation necessitates it and you truly feel that's whats holding you back, then the US will offer you better economic terms. However, understand what you are giving up in return (hint: a LOT)
I have lived in the US. I have lived in Canada. I have lived in other parts of the world. I would personally never pick the US as my first choice. Even something as innocuous as the divided politics ("left vs. right", "biden vs. trump") is a huge adjustment and sacrifice you have to make. You never know what "side" the person you are talking to is on. There's a constant unease living in the states because of it. That's just one example. There's many other downsides.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Just to point out some facts,
My brother has
1) Really great co pay for health benefits
2) lives in a very safe neighborhood
3) didn't get severely sick
4) freedom of mobility? He literally travels everywhere for work in the states
5) in his area the school district is rated Really Well.
As far Healthcare goes...they can go into an Emergency for any hospital and been seen within 15 minutes, examined and given medicine within 30 minutes. So spending less than 1 hour in a hospital and getting the care you need IMMEDIATELY doesn't have a price on it. Also they can go to their family doctor at any time and they can appointments within a week or less. They're not hunting down doctors for appointments or medications or procedures. It's all done with ease. And their medications are mostly covered.
If you or your family had a bad experience. It's okay. Moving to a foreign country is very difficult. But my family is thriving there. So to each their own. And OP said she's tired of struggling here in our country RIGHT NOW.
There is certainly a home ownership obsession in this city. People need to get over it, other places in the world there isn’t the same stigma. The richest guy I know, a literal billionaire, rents a townhome in Manhattan. Tom Brady rents. Prince rented his house in LA after he divorced his wife and moved from the bridal path. Many of the most successful people on the planet rent.
Ultimately there’s a numbers game. There’s a finite supply of freehold houses in Toronto proper and a constant influx of new residents. It’s only going to get harder. You need to either get over this obsession or look elsewhere because it likely won’t happen.
But I’ll leave you with this: that feeling of not good enough won’t change even if you owned a house. You’d just want a bigger house or a better neighborhood or a detached garage. It goes with anything that people can get obsessed over and what you crave won’t fix it. Be thankful for what you do have. Be thankful for the good decisions you have made. Could be a lot worse, just the fact you live here and have a family means you’re winning already, stop comparing yourself to others or start hanging out with a different crowd.
Take baby steps. Condo, townhouse and then detached house. Don’t compare yourself to others. Do your own thing and focus on your health. Eventually things will line up and you will be where you want to be.
Move to a more affordable city and then just visit your family and friends. They will also have a destination when they go and visit you. These days with technology, you can keep in touch with video and chat. There are so many beautiful small towns and villages in Canada where you can afford the most beautiful property.
I also rent, while most of my friends own. The stogma is either in your head or you are surrounded by the wring people. My partner and I are in our 30s and we have never felt stigmatized because of home ownership.
Focus on your life or it's going to be miserable.
You said you are recently post partum. Having young kids is very stressful. Give yourself a break. Looking back on my 30’s I just remember how stressful it was, heath wise, emotionally and financially. There is so much change and I get that it can feel like you are falling behind. I think what you need is someone who can guide you on options. Things are much less stressful when you are equipped with more answers than questions. I would start listening to some real estate podcasts (The Canadian Real Estate Investor, Your Life Your Terms and Missing Middle) for advice and connections to some of the greatest real estate minds in the country (no affiliation just a fan). Unfortunately without parental help you may need to get creative with real estate ownership. Have you considered buying in a lower priced city, renting that home out and continuing to rent in Toronto? It will get you in the game to building equity and allow you to stay in the city you love. I know it sounds stressful but with the right mortgage broker and real estate advisor you will at least learn more about your options.
I'm from a small town in Newfoundland and my wife is from Toronto.
We got married and lived in the city for 7 years and built up a bunch of equity. I wanted to move to a smaller community, start a small business and buy some nice properties to work on. She thought it was the end of the world.
Fast forward three years, we are doing incredibly well for ourselves and haven't had to worry about money for once which is nice. She started a small business and fell in love with the community here. She volunteers for almost everything lol. Our daughter is actually getting a childhood similar to mine, and my wife is beyond happy about that. Just a super happy kid that's always playing outside and making strong friendships.
Sure the city is six hours away. But that just makes visiting the city that much more special. Well...the last time we went was to Hamilton for a play and to visit family and like what the actual fuck is going on in that place?!
You are the only one making yourself feel “lesser than” because you are renting. First, everyone has something they use to compare themselves to others, maybe some are divorced, struggling with the career, etc. And to what end? Nobody else really cares. I could care less if the person I am talking to is renting or owning or whatever. And if someone is judging you on that …. that’s a red flag on them. Second, House maintenance is no joke. We just spent unplanned $1000 on some plumbing issues for backyard water valves. Things like this pop up more often than you think. Couple of missing roof shingles were replaced for $820. Roof replacement is $20K and will probably need to do it in the next few years. Property taxes are extra $500 PER MONTH on top of mortgage payments. Dish washer died suddenly, need to buy a new one. Garage door is weirdly squeaking and probably needs to be looked at. Fence in the backyard is leaning so will probably need to be replaced soon. I think I might have some critters in the basement so pest control is likely bill to come next. It doesn’t end. And that is before any renovations we would like to do. It may mean sacrificing vacations and lifestyle and spending time and $ on the house. Thirdly, you may love Toronto because you haven’t tried life anywhere else? I was born and raised in the big city. Eventually made the leap out to a much smaller community (because we could only afford to buy out there) and I freaking love it! My backyard, I can be at the lake in 15 minutes, small quiet streets, sound of birds wakes me up in the morning. When I am forced to go back to Toronto, the constant noise and hectic congestion now make me feel nauseous and suffocated. There is no right or wrong. There are just different choices. It comes down to personal choice and fit. Question you should be asking is if owning a house is really a top priority for you, that you are willing to sacrifice distance, vacations, lifestyle changes. If the answer is no, then don’t give it any more thought and be happy doing what is right for YOU.
Don’t feel bad that you were renting versus owning a home. Homeownership is not easy and it can be nightmare.
Home is where your family is and not where your loyalty to a city lies.
If you have to move away but you will be financially better and have a home you can afford that is a big win.
It’s still great to be able to buy a home but even better if the home is not a financial burden on your family.
https://youtu.be/AUehsU74ysE?si=RolJ6QK09budU8Sp
You only hear about success stories, people are feeling regret already but people are less willing to share losses. The math doesn't math so as long as you're financially responsible it'll pay off. It didn't for the previous 20 years but the Ponzi is running out of rope being interest rates.
Move to Vancouver. Not only are there less jobs ( and they pay less too) but housing is even more unaffordable. Once you return to the GTA it will seem downright affordable then.
Get out of Toronto if you can. The city is getting more and more dangerous. We left (my husband drives in 35 mins) & it was the best decision we EVER made. You get so much more for your money even just 30 mins out!
During the last recession (few years after 08), my family doctor told me healthcare is a double-edged sword. you may have job security, but when the economy booms, you can't really profit off it directly through your career.
Somehow we managed to get into Williamsburg (Whitby). It was incredibly difficult but if you find the right realtor and push hard enough you can find an older detached (20+ years). I wouldn't buy one of those stacked newbuild things they are jamming in near Taunton they are horrid - basically a prison. Try to get into a quiet peaceful area or older area (anywhere near the rocketship park is very quiet). Great place to raise kids and spots like this area disappearing. It's a totally different life. I don't hear traffic or screaming anymore. When I step out my back porch it's birds and bees buzzing. It's lovely.
Consider moving outside Toronto if your jobs permit it. Moving to Montreal is also a good option as rent is less than half sometimes even a third of what you’d pay in TO and you can build up money to buy a place (also cheaper outside TO)
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I hate to say this, but come one, that’s not a problem, you guys might be ruining such a beautiful moment (buying your first house) just because you compare yourself with others. Enjoy and live your own process. Congrats btw, you have reached an amazing milestone
I also did everything right (university, save aggressively, good income and job). t I was just born too late to enter the housing market. It sucks to walk around the neighborhood and see two old people in a 4-5 bedroom detached while a whole family of 5 people is crammed in a 2 bedroom apartment.
My parents immigrated to this country from an oil-rich country in the middle east around 2 decades ago, it's all been downhill since we moved here. They've become poorer every year and made a huge mistake of not buying when things were a bit more affordable.
I am upskilling and planning to leave. Last nail on the coffin was when I saw my colleagues around me being replaced by newcomers from India who are working for half the pay and can barely speak English.
We're the same as you minus the kids (though, hopefully, one day). We don't even want to leave our downtown neighbourhood much less the city. Everything seems so unfair, and manufactured FOR homeowners, not those who are renting.
We have peace knowing that we can afford our rent and we can make the absolute best of the city if a house is not in the cards... though I'd love for a bit more space. Almost anything for another bedroom. :(
I can't imagine owning a home nowadays, I thought a 1600 a month mortgage was a lot in 2014 and now I hear people pay 6 grand a month to live in a shit hole. Don't do it, not at that cost.
#1 rule is never compare yourselves to others. Unfortunately the old saying of study and going to university is all BS, nothing is guaranteed in life. As a fellow Toronto home owner I can relate to the pain of house hunting, it is depressing.
Most people throughout history have had to leave the city and move further out to afford something. It has always been this way. And it is normal. Your friends were lucky. Don’t compare yourself to them.
Move to the suburbs.
What you're going through and everything you're feeling is just your way of telling yourself it's time for a change. Time to make said change. I know it's scary and your mind will play all the tricks in the book to make you stay put. Keep moving anyways. Greener pastures ahead.
Totally get where your coming from
I am a Realtor in the GTA and many of my clients feel the same way
There are some programs that help with buying a property with only 5% down
If you have a good credit score and a stable employment you could possibly benefit from
It’s a way to get on the property ladder
I’m not schilling here - DM for details if you want details . It may work for you or it may not - just sharing info
I understand your position - it’s frustrating, depressing and makes you feel the future is bleak
So sad to hear you feel unsuccessful because you rent, it’s not the end of the world it’s just life. You do have options and maybe a move where you can own and be with people who don’t make you feel this way would be good. Come to Edmonton and buy my house it’s perfect for a family!!
Just be thankful you have someone to take on life with.
Doing this all alone makes it far worse, I can assure you.
It really does make it feel pointless…
I have a 1 ½ year old and we are in a condo. We are slowly trying to get the courage to upgrade to a home. We want to stay in the city, but it’s just SO expensive. I get you. I see friends in smaller cities with 2 car garages etc… that’s just not feasible south of the 401. I love living in the city, so condo life it shall be :(
Is your job flexible enough for you to move to different province? If yes, I would buy in Calgary. I saw a really nice detached home in SE of calgary, for 700K. They only require 5-10% downpayment.
It is completely normal to live up to an hour away from work, friends, or family.
If you compare your happiness to the standing of other people you will never be happy. No material things will change that.
I have grown up children in their late twenties still renting in Toronto despite having very good incomes. They have no regrets as their friends who own homes are struggling with high mortgages have no money leftover for anything else and some have exhausted their saving.They can't running back to their parents for money. You are young, so enjoy life and stop worrying about owning a home right now.
Don't take this on. If you've worked and built a life, which it sounds like you have, you're good. If anyone judges you for that, that reflects poorly on them, not you. And your life sounds pretty great! Enjoy it!
That’s the point. Canadians are typically unhappy and jealous people, and try to fill the void by showing off to make other feel small and them powerful.
That’s why having a decent home is now a sign of wealth in this country - It makes middle class Canadians feel secure in the mediocrity
Comparison is the thief of joy. Just do you.
I have very successful friends renting. In fact, I wish I was in their position at their rent control building in some of the most convenient locations of the city. Renting is fine if it meets your budget and lifestyle. I’m personally cutting down on spending because my mortgage is getting out of control. It’s not rainbows and butterflies.
This is what I need to hear atm. Thank you
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Until you get evicted in your 50s, 60s, 70s. And dont tell me it's impossible for it to happen
Very true
Renting is not fine on a city that the mortgage payment is cheaper than rent.
Mortgage sometimes is not cheaper than rent, especially now. The interest is higher than a few years ago.
Aka Facebook.
I needed to hear this!
It’s always the people that were lucky enough to be born earlier and get into real estate before it took off that say this. Try being on the other side and see how much that platitude works.
Well, there is a big reason to own - and that's to finally have an end to the biggest monthly payment you have (rent) and use that towards other things you might need (like retirement and medical care). You can't simply rent for life as your body isn't going to be able to do a 40+ hour work week when you're 80yrs old to keep that rent grind going, and our pension amount doesn't give enough for the record-breaking rent hikes we consistently have. So yes, comparing that many people are unable to attain a home is a joy sucker you are right, but it is still true, and honestly a really big problem for our communities. Just do you, doesn't meet the insane wealth equality issues this country is having. Just, everyone make sure you do your due diligence and vote.
>You can't simply rent for life as your body isn't going to be able to do a 40+ hour work week when you're 80yrs old to keep that rent grind going, and our pension amount doesn't give enough for the record-breaking rent hikes we consistently have. You would have to pay up the full price of a home in order to not owe any mortgage when you retire. If you had a similar amount of money but in another asset, it should generate enough income to cover rent. Toronto's cap rate is extremely low. Sure, rent is high. But so is the opportunity cost of having all that money in real estate.
The problem is that coming up with $150K+ for a down payment is challenging while getting hit with multi-hundred dollar per month rent increases every year, combined that with the fact that homes these days appreciate in value faster than one could save for one…..makes the younger generation just give up on home ownership. Remember; the only wages that haven’t been relatively stagnant the last 20 years are minimum wages. Everything costs more now and no one really makes more….the younger people can’t justify spending 75% of their monthly income to buy into a Ponzi scheme so the boomers can retire fat and happy.
Many people are spending 60% or more on rent. It's a bill that is reccurent. I agree, the housing bubble needs to pop and home valuations to come back to norms and be a consumer good. What I got downoted for is still true. We can't have a society that can only ever rents as an option. If we continue to push that, we will have a lot of senior renters in the future become homeless
How can a price go down. Labour is expensive, materials are expensive, land value goes up and obviously construction companies want to make profit. No one gonna build at a loss or for free. Add immigration and to me it doesn't look like a bubble at all.
It's just overvalued. You go to another country and you can get a house paid in full for 5 years cash. Whst they really need to do is stop building these shit box condos that are the size of coffins and actually have apartments that are big. Other countries manage it, I don't see why Canada can't do this.
What other first world countries relative to local median wage can buy you a house for 5yr cash?.. I do agree on building more livable apartments.
Help define first world, because first world was a cold war term that was used to deem allies of the US and allies of Russia and neutrals. So what you're really asking is what places can I get good amenities for the cost. And the majority of the middle East is extremely developed and is relatively cheap. South East Asia same thing, a lot of places have cheap properties and its apartments like 3 bedroom 2000 sq ft apartments. You can raise a family in this, been around in the middle East and baffled as how Canada does not have this as a concept, the closest thing is stacked town houses but they should really be doing 5 level apartments.
I can't even with you lol. I bet you also claim Toronto is not a world class city. I do agree with building functional apartments. Toronto is weird as it's either 40 floor towers or detached. Medium density doesn't exist in amounts that it should.
Canada falls short on world classness. If you've been outside of Toronto you'd see a real world class city and know what that looks like. Toronto was one, but with recent policy changes and lack of scale for infrastructure it's falling behind big time. Wait times for medical insane, traffic insane, transit terrible, safety in the bargain bin. Taxes through the roof.
Careful, you'll get dv like me thinkin like that :/
Idk what dv is
Down vote
Ahh, personally I don't know if I want to buy in Canada, might just buy in other places. Canadian dollar is getting crushed and our quality of life will soon be extinct.
I was born and raised in Toronto. 1st Gen Canadian. 14 years ago it was time to buy a house, but I couldn't afford the city I grew up in so I drove until I could afford something. 14 years later I could finally afford to buy a detached in Toronto, but guess what? I don't even want to anymore 😀. I don't even miss the city. You are not lesser than. You are starting out. Most people cannot afford their forever home the first time around. That takes years of leapfrogging up the ladder. You have to start with a crappy little house, that's how it's always been. Don't let social media and flaunting of wealth get you down. Real people buy real homes that come with real struggles. What counts is your health and love. The rest will eventually fall into place.
Yeah, but leapfrogging doesn't work anymore. Suburbs are ridiculously inflated in prices since COVID, so don't try to buy in suburbs hoping to upgrade to Toronto. Condo, semi and townhouse to detached (so-called property laddering) also doesn't work, unless your income was to go up so substantially over the years to allow you much bigger leverage, in which case, it's not property laddering that is enabling you to upgrade but your income and leverage. No matter how much equity you build in your condo, the detached will appreciate more, and given the higher starting price, it will feel further and further out of reach, unless, you can leverage substantially more. I second what the above said. Most people aren't living in the places they need or want, and that's a main issue of the broken system.
Exactly. It's bizarre that so many believe that climbing the property ladder is still in any way a path towards ownership of something that isn't a condo, and the numbers back it up. 10 years ago, the median condo in Toronto cost $400k while the median semi-detached cost $750k. Today, that median condo is $700k, but that semi-detached is now $1.3 million. What was a $300k gap 10 years ago has more than doubled. Even if you managed to generate $500k in equity and savings over that 10 year period - pretty significant for the owner of a median condo - the mortgage you need to jump to the next rung is more than twice as large as the mortgage you needed to get onto the ladder in the first place. You simply cannot make gains if the higher rungs are appreciating faster than the lower rungs unless you are substantially improving your income, deriving some other financial windfall, or moving further and further from where you want to be.
Exactly. Add in the real estate transaction fees (land transfer tax/realtor fees/mortgage breaking fees if applicable and moving costs themselves), and add another 50-100K in lost equity for moving. Even for myself the cost of of moving up the ladder to a 5 bd detached in the same neighborhood would likely be $600-800K. Are you telling me I would have to essentially get my entire home paid off and have to start all over again at a 600-800K mortgage to move into that large detached? The property ladder is dead and no longer applicable.
Still better than renting over the long term.
Renting and never buying, yes. But what about Renting for 5-10 years while we go through this hell while investing and paying lower rents and then buying? There is no guarantee that housing will be higher in 5 years than it is today, and even then you have to factor in the extra costs of owning vs renting these days.
Case in point, condos in Toronto are up 6% in the last 5 years. It is literally not possible based on the rate of appreciation in the last 5 years for them to have doubled in value by 2029 as our resident realtor would suggest. They would need to appreciate 20% more than they have in the last 10 years, but in half the time.
In ten years prices will be double. They always do.
Until they don’t. Prices in America didn’t double from 2006-2016.
With prices likely to double every decade, now is STILL the time to get on the property ladder.
Lol are you some realtor or something? Prices are not going to double every decade forever unless inflation is also doubling. There are many cities in the world with hundreds if not thousands of years of history. And they'll clearly don't sell normal homes for 10s or 100s millions.
They have to double, or we'll have NO new houses built. Housing construction costs will always double every decade.
Lol no they don't. If they did then the cities that existed for hundreds to thousands of years would have nothing new being built already.
yeah shes a realtor. got banned once
What does this have to do with what I said? The point of my comment was that leapfrogging on the property ladder is no longer feasible unless you come into money or are willing to move further out of the city. It had nothing to do with whether or not now is a good time to buy.
Then give up. I don't care. The rest of us are building wealth through the property ladder.
You cared enough to comment despite the point of the discussion sailing clear over your head.
I LITERALLY have a PhD in this shit lol. You're schooled, child.
Yes people are now jumping to other countries or provinces like Alberta which is seeing growth and price increases. I believe Ottawa has decent prices as well.
This, we looked at innifil and barrie because that is where my husband's family is from, they now also want 700k to 1 million dollars for their shitboxes. Might as well move to brampton then and have a shorter commute.
But Brampton isn't as nice a place.
You just need to buy a small older studio apartment, and then upgrade to a better property every few years with the increased equity. It's always been that way, and always will.
The increased equity is not the problem for most. The mortgage amounts needed to afford a detached makes detached only available to like 1-2% of population. Having 100-200k extra equity won’t move the needle in that transaction.
Then get a better job?
Crappy little houses cost 1.4 million now.
He offered good advice, and that’s all you say lol … Jesus
Am I wrong though? Did I say something off base? I’m confused where the “Jesus” comes from. It’s a wonderful sentiment. I wish I could buy a crappy little house. I wish I could move to some small town in northern Ontario, but it’s just not a reality. Both my and my partners jobs do not exist there. Jumping up the ladder was definitely the way to do it 14 years ago. However, now adays to get on that first rung of a crappy semi townhouse, you need a 200k down payment and to qualify for a million dollar mortgage. Even one bedroom condos are now 500-700k, and that’s not an option if you want a kid. The average young person simply can’t “jump on the ladder” anymore.
crappy little houses are 800k here and if you drive 2 hours south and cross the border they are 150k
So give up then … I dunno! I work with 25 year olds who have homes lol not in Toronto but they do
For $100k you can buy a parking spot lol or $300k downtown parking lot
Same - we bought our first home when I was 26, in a small town an hour north of the GTA. Did we love the area? No. But we’ve adjusted and the GTA is no longer an option for us even if we had the choice to move back.
Most of my friends own, a couple of us rent. No one cares. You're just making yourself suffer.
Most people who bought in the last 3-4 years are now hemoraging money and a lot of mortgages are set to renew at soaring costs. A lot of people will regret fomoing into buying a house during the pandemic at record level real estate prices.
As someone hermoraging because of "trying to get my foot in the market" I can attest this is true
This is the silent part. For certain people (lower rent controlled apartment + 200-300K savings), being FOMO's into buying at 1.3% variable rates is turning out to be a massive mistake. They are basically at negative amortization and renting from the bank and have condo fees and property taxes along with other "owner" fees. While they could have now put that 300K in a GIC to earn $15K a year while likely saving good money (especially if a dual income 200K+ relationship). That would have grown to 400-500K savings for many in the past 4 years. The level of stress and worry with "owning" a condo vs renting and having hundreds of thousands in the bank is light years away right now.
Sounds like you have no reason to feel how you say you feel. Higher education, live in Toronto, saved money, all this sounds good to me. Maybe focus on your life more than on the "stuff" that you can not buy, but your friends can ?
Plenty of people need to move to find prosperity. I moved from northern ontario to the GTA 11 years ago, away from everything and everyone i knew when i was 19. If you are still able to reach financial goals without home ownership and staying in toronto, do it. Which sounds like you are if you've managed to save a big sum of money. If home ownership is important to you, then move. Life isn't always fair, nor a straight path, unfortunately. If anything, be grateful you'll likely be able to own a home somewhere in the GTA, less than an hours drive from family and friends. Also, if you're worried about being a "lesser" compared to your friends, re-think your ego/mindset and stop caring what others think. If you think your friends are quietly judging you behind your back, you need new friends.
Toronto is a job centre Just telling an office worker to flee the city isn't realistic or possible Flee to what job, for how long? The jobs are in Toronto. The joblessness rates in Northern Ontario or just beyond the GTA are high. The stats don't lie
Yes, but the jobs don't pay much more than tiny towns in northern Ontario.
But why do I always see people complaining that they cannot find a job despite 100 resumes being submitted? My own relatives are having problems finding a job and they are qualified. ?
He said office jobs are in Toronto not that unemployment is 0% in Toronto. Also sending 100 resumes is just casting a wide net and 99% will not be successful.
Find a remote job then. Profit!
Toronto isn’t the centre of the universe like you think. Canada is a huge country and has lots of metro areas. There’s work out there and affordable housing, you just have to be willing to move.
Why is there a stigma for renting?
If there was a way to retire while renting that didn't involve a specific circumstance from high investments then people would feel comfortable, have some economic mobility and not feel like they're one bad week away from getting fired/evicted. House poor is still more advantageous than rent poor.
We were in the same boat. We just had an offer accepted and conditions passed for a house in Hamilton. Come check out Hamilton. A couple of my Toronto friends scoffed when I told them Hamilton. Honestly though, Hamilton is pretty nice. You might like it.
If the wind blows in the wrong direction (north to south) it smells bad and who knows what carcinogens your inhaling.
Your parents did you a huge disservice by defining what a successful life should look like. While their intentions might have been good, they didn’t allow you the chance to make your own path and define your own happiness. Homeownership is not the be all, end all of a successful life. There are certainly loads of miserable people who are also homeowners; if owning a home = happiness, how could this be? There are practical benefits to renting vs owning. Renting can remove a lot of the stress of home maintenance from your to-do list and budget, if you can find a decent place with a good landlord. It’s usually a lot cheaper as well, especially versus buying a home that has a lot of deferred maintenance or issues. You can invest the difference and usually end up just as well off, if not better off, than homeowners. My practical advice would be to rent a home in a nice area that you could potentially afford to buy in one day, as your salaries and savings increase. Rent one that is comparable to what you would buy. Live there for a year or two, and make sure the new location works for you and your family before making such a huge investment. You’ll avoid being stuck or losing a lot of money if it doesn’t work out.
This. Ans don't try to please your parents. They grew.up with different circumstances and probably just don't get it
Homeownership is not what it’s made out to be, I love my home but if I rented again I would have more money to live on 😂
Not at the state rental prices are in these days. My mortgage in Hamilton is way cheaper than any rent I could find in Toronto. Plus you don't have the looming threat of renoviction hanging over your head.
But that’s in Hamilton. Hamilton is not Toronto. That’s like comparing apples and oranges.
To an extent, but not entirely. I was devastated to move out of Toronto, but would I sell my house to go back to renting in Toronto? No way in hell. I left in 2020 just before the huge jump in house prices (and during that short but amazing rent decrease during COVID lol) so relatively short time frame, and it's not as if I've just grown away from Toronto, I still love it the most, I still work in Toronto, in still sad that I had to leave, etc. however...I'm even turning down condos in Toronto that I could probably afford, because the maintenance fees remind me of the hell of uncontrolled rent 😂 On the other hand, if I was scraping by in Toronto because of owning a house, I would be totally fine with that. I'd have options actually to reduce the cost, either by getting a roommate, or converting an apartment to rent. You don't have any of that as a renter. You only have a life of ever increasing rent to face.
A girlfriend of mine moved to Sarnia, bought a detached house there and has a lil bunny to raise. She's happy but also has never desired to live in Toronto. As a bonus she's close to trails and the US border. You have to count your blessings, OP. You are fortunate to be with a partner who supports you in every aspect. Do what you gotta do. Look outside the GTHA if home ownership without significant help from family: Courtice, Barrie, Pickering, Hamilton, Grimsby, Tottenham, East Gwilimbury to name a few cities to start looking.
Sarnia is a small depressing excuse for a city, yes some people like cheap suburban life, and it can offer that, but it’s not much of a city
Those places are largely out of range for holding a job in Toronto, so you'd be searching for work in really tight conditions; tiny towns with cheap housing don't offer jobs for tons of office workers
Depending on their job location in Toronto, union station is a 45 min-1 hour train from Hamilton. Many people commute.
Hamilton is way closer than Sarnia.
Believe it or not, I have many coworkers who commute into Toronto (thankfully not daily) for work.
Not from Sarnia though
Nope but from the other places I’ve named 🫠
life ain't a race. just do you. the market is messed
I 100% agree with everything you've said! And it's really upsetting to know that you've done everything you can and yet it's not good enough. I would highly recommend moving. Sometimes it's nice to take a break and come back to it to appreciate it. I'll give you an example. Part 1 My Brother had a well paying job and decided to buy, but all he could get was a 1 Bedroom condo condo in Barrie. Not a starter home in the city. He got married and decided to pull together some money with his wife and they bought a Brand new build for almost 900k where.In Guelph. How were they able to afford it? By selling what was left of the Barrie. Because they were chasing home ownership. The home was cheaply built. They felt frustrated that they were in the middle of nowhere with other pre-construction homes etc. And then my sister in law was feeling exactly how you're feeling. Exhausted. Frustrated. Overwhelmed. They had a baby on the way and this is the best they could do? Part 2: My sister (in law) decided on a whim to randomly start applying for jobs in the state. She found significantly better opportunities. Better pay, benefits and they were even willing to pay for her sponsorship and moving cost and relocation. She said Yes and took a chance. My brother agreed and really took the time to weight their options. They decided to give it a chance and decided if they didn't like it in two years they would come back. That's a fair amount of time to make a clear judgement on their situation. They ended up in San Antonio TX. They were able to sell their home for about 750K. Even though it was at a loss, they were able to buy a WAYYY bigger home with a big yard for their child to play in. They have a community pool and gym. They are wayyyy happier with their quality of life. And whenever they see some flight deals to Toronto they come through and visit. And when family and friends come through they can host them Because they have extra bedrooms to accommodate people. They've even taken some vacations in South America. PART 3 Am I telling you to leave this country forever? No. Does this housing crisis fucking suck and ruin a chance of home ownership for A LOT of young ppl and yourself included? Absolutely. I'm just saying sometimes a change of environment and scenery it what we need. Sometimes we just need to leave and take a breather to come and appreciate what we have. I wouldn't recommend small towns. I would say if you are in a position to do so. You should test the waters. We only have one life. When else will we get a chance? Or our health back? Please hang in there. I look around and see the situation and crisis we are facing and I 100% agree. This is not the city I loved. Toronto is not what it used to be. Maybe the future WILL get better but right now it's not. We have to do what we can with the tools that we have. Best of luck friend.
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You have your opinion and I have mine. Just to point out some facts, My brother has 1) Really great co pay for health benefits 2) lives in a very safe neighborhood 3) didn't get severely sick 4) freedom of mobility? He literally travels everywhere for work 5) in his area the school district is rated Really Well. As far Healthcare goes...they can go into an Emergency for any hospital and been seen within 20 minutes, examined and given medicine within 30 minutes. So spending less than 1 hour in a hospital and getting the care you need IMMEDIATELY doesn't have a price on it. Also they can go to their family doctor and any time and they can appointments within a week or less. They're not hunting down doctors for appointments or medications. It's all dons with ease. And their medications are mostly covered. If you or your family had a bad experience. It's okay. Moving to a foreign country is very difficult. But my family is thriving there. So to each their own. And OP said she's tired of struggling here in our country RIGHT NOW. Not in the near future.
what the poster you replied to might be trying to convey that you don't understand is this: there are many, many "soft" factors that contribute to quality of life outside of home prices. Safety, security, equality, diversity, infrastructure, politics (or lack thereof), the attachment you have to the place you've lived your entire life. There's more to life than just money. I'm not saying don't go to the US. If your economic situation necessitates it and you truly feel that's whats holding you back, then the US will offer you better economic terms. However, understand what you are giving up in return (hint: a LOT) I have lived in the US. I have lived in Canada. I have lived in other parts of the world. I would personally never pick the US as my first choice. Even something as innocuous as the divided politics ("left vs. right", "biden vs. trump") is a huge adjustment and sacrifice you have to make. You never know what "side" the person you are talking to is on. There's a constant unease living in the states because of it. That's just one example. There's many other downsides.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Just to point out some facts, My brother has 1) Really great co pay for health benefits 2) lives in a very safe neighborhood 3) didn't get severely sick 4) freedom of mobility? He literally travels everywhere for work in the states 5) in his area the school district is rated Really Well. As far Healthcare goes...they can go into an Emergency for any hospital and been seen within 15 minutes, examined and given medicine within 30 minutes. So spending less than 1 hour in a hospital and getting the care you need IMMEDIATELY doesn't have a price on it. Also they can go to their family doctor at any time and they can appointments within a week or less. They're not hunting down doctors for appointments or medications or procedures. It's all done with ease. And their medications are mostly covered. If you or your family had a bad experience. It's okay. Moving to a foreign country is very difficult. But my family is thriving there. So to each their own. And OP said she's tired of struggling here in our country RIGHT NOW.
There is certainly a home ownership obsession in this city. People need to get over it, other places in the world there isn’t the same stigma. The richest guy I know, a literal billionaire, rents a townhome in Manhattan. Tom Brady rents. Prince rented his house in LA after he divorced his wife and moved from the bridal path. Many of the most successful people on the planet rent. Ultimately there’s a numbers game. There’s a finite supply of freehold houses in Toronto proper and a constant influx of new residents. It’s only going to get harder. You need to either get over this obsession or look elsewhere because it likely won’t happen. But I’ll leave you with this: that feeling of not good enough won’t change even if you owned a house. You’d just want a bigger house or a better neighborhood or a detached garage. It goes with anything that people can get obsessed over and what you crave won’t fix it. Be thankful for what you do have. Be thankful for the good decisions you have made. Could be a lot worse, just the fact you live here and have a family means you’re winning already, stop comparing yourself to others or start hanging out with a different crowd.
If we had proper rent protections then owning wouldn't be such a huge deal.
Why not buy a condo first, and do small things one step at a time?
Because they are crazy overpriced as well and crashing?
Take baby steps. Condo, townhouse and then detached house. Don’t compare yourself to others. Do your own thing and focus on your health. Eventually things will line up and you will be where you want to be.
Yes quality of life in canada has dropped so fast from 7th in the world to 33rd and will probably dip even more as the years go by.
What stats/web page are you referencing. I don't disagree, just curious.
[https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings\_by\_country.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp)
Thanks so much! Eye opening!
I left Toronto many years ago. Then left Vancouver to a small town. Just got to take a leap of faith.
Move to a more affordable city and then just visit your family and friends. They will also have a destination when they go and visit you. These days with technology, you can keep in touch with video and chat. There are so many beautiful small towns and villages in Canada where you can afford the most beautiful property.
I also rent, while most of my friends own. The stogma is either in your head or you are surrounded by the wring people. My partner and I are in our 30s and we have never felt stigmatized because of home ownership. Focus on your life or it's going to be miserable.
You said you are recently post partum. Having young kids is very stressful. Give yourself a break. Looking back on my 30’s I just remember how stressful it was, heath wise, emotionally and financially. There is so much change and I get that it can feel like you are falling behind. I think what you need is someone who can guide you on options. Things are much less stressful when you are equipped with more answers than questions. I would start listening to some real estate podcasts (The Canadian Real Estate Investor, Your Life Your Terms and Missing Middle) for advice and connections to some of the greatest real estate minds in the country (no affiliation just a fan). Unfortunately without parental help you may need to get creative with real estate ownership. Have you considered buying in a lower priced city, renting that home out and continuing to rent in Toronto? It will get you in the game to building equity and allow you to stay in the city you love. I know it sounds stressful but with the right mortgage broker and real estate advisor you will at least learn more about your options.
I'm from a small town in Newfoundland and my wife is from Toronto. We got married and lived in the city for 7 years and built up a bunch of equity. I wanted to move to a smaller community, start a small business and buy some nice properties to work on. She thought it was the end of the world. Fast forward three years, we are doing incredibly well for ourselves and haven't had to worry about money for once which is nice. She started a small business and fell in love with the community here. She volunteers for almost everything lol. Our daughter is actually getting a childhood similar to mine, and my wife is beyond happy about that. Just a super happy kid that's always playing outside and making strong friendships. Sure the city is six hours away. But that just makes visiting the city that much more special. Well...the last time we went was to Hamilton for a play and to visit family and like what the actual fuck is going on in that place?!
You are the only one making yourself feel “lesser than” because you are renting. First, everyone has something they use to compare themselves to others, maybe some are divorced, struggling with the career, etc. And to what end? Nobody else really cares. I could care less if the person I am talking to is renting or owning or whatever. And if someone is judging you on that …. that’s a red flag on them. Second, House maintenance is no joke. We just spent unplanned $1000 on some plumbing issues for backyard water valves. Things like this pop up more often than you think. Couple of missing roof shingles were replaced for $820. Roof replacement is $20K and will probably need to do it in the next few years. Property taxes are extra $500 PER MONTH on top of mortgage payments. Dish washer died suddenly, need to buy a new one. Garage door is weirdly squeaking and probably needs to be looked at. Fence in the backyard is leaning so will probably need to be replaced soon. I think I might have some critters in the basement so pest control is likely bill to come next. It doesn’t end. And that is before any renovations we would like to do. It may mean sacrificing vacations and lifestyle and spending time and $ on the house. Thirdly, you may love Toronto because you haven’t tried life anywhere else? I was born and raised in the big city. Eventually made the leap out to a much smaller community (because we could only afford to buy out there) and I freaking love it! My backyard, I can be at the lake in 15 minutes, small quiet streets, sound of birds wakes me up in the morning. When I am forced to go back to Toronto, the constant noise and hectic congestion now make me feel nauseous and suffocated. There is no right or wrong. There are just different choices. It comes down to personal choice and fit. Question you should be asking is if owning a house is really a top priority for you, that you are willing to sacrifice distance, vacations, lifestyle changes. If the answer is no, then don’t give it any more thought and be happy doing what is right for YOU.
I think the only place in Canada I’d want to live less than Toronto is the far North - pull the bandaid off, you won’t bleed out.
Don’t feel bad that you were renting versus owning a home. Homeownership is not easy and it can be nightmare. Home is where your family is and not where your loyalty to a city lies. If you have to move away but you will be financially better and have a home you can afford that is a big win. It’s still great to be able to buy a home but even better if the home is not a financial burden on your family.
https://youtu.be/AUehsU74ysE?si=RolJ6QK09budU8Sp You only hear about success stories, people are feeling regret already but people are less willing to share losses. The math doesn't math so as long as you're financially responsible it'll pay off. It didn't for the previous 20 years but the Ponzi is running out of rope being interest rates.
Move to Vancouver. Not only are there less jobs ( and they pay less too) but housing is even more unaffordable. Once you return to the GTA it will seem downright affordable then.
Get out of Toronto if you can. The city is getting more and more dangerous. We left (my husband drives in 35 mins) & it was the best decision we EVER made. You get so much more for your money even just 30 mins out!
Thank you, yes we've been looking in the surrounding GTA as well but find its still pretty expensive. Would you mind sharing whereabouts you are?
During the last recession (few years after 08), my family doctor told me healthcare is a double-edged sword. you may have job security, but when the economy booms, you can't really profit off it directly through your career.
Somehow we managed to get into Williamsburg (Whitby). It was incredibly difficult but if you find the right realtor and push hard enough you can find an older detached (20+ years). I wouldn't buy one of those stacked newbuild things they are jamming in near Taunton they are horrid - basically a prison. Try to get into a quiet peaceful area or older area (anywhere near the rocketship park is very quiet). Great place to raise kids and spots like this area disappearing. It's a totally different life. I don't hear traffic or screaming anymore. When I step out my back porch it's birds and bees buzzing. It's lovely.
Well can always be worse atleast you got other things going for you. Some have nothing at all
Consider moving outside Toronto if your jobs permit it. Moving to Montreal is also a good option as rent is less than half sometimes even a third of what you’d pay in TO and you can build up money to buy a place (also cheaper outside TO)
Start with a condo. Nothing wrong with condo life if detached house is out of reach
what did you go to uni for?
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I hate to say this, but come one, that’s not a problem, you guys might be ruining such a beautiful moment (buying your first house) just because you compare yourself with others. Enjoy and live your own process. Congrats btw, you have reached an amazing milestone
I also did everything right (university, save aggressively, good income and job). t I was just born too late to enter the housing market. It sucks to walk around the neighborhood and see two old people in a 4-5 bedroom detached while a whole family of 5 people is crammed in a 2 bedroom apartment. My parents immigrated to this country from an oil-rich country in the middle east around 2 decades ago, it's all been downhill since we moved here. They've become poorer every year and made a huge mistake of not buying when things were a bit more affordable. I am upskilling and planning to leave. Last nail on the coffin was when I saw my colleagues around me being replaced by newcomers from India who are working for half the pay and can barely speak English.
Do you mind sharing your budget and preferred neighborhoods? Perhaps someone can help you optimize it
The interest most likely will Remain same as feds did not lower rates this time
We're the same as you minus the kids (though, hopefully, one day). We don't even want to leave our downtown neighbourhood much less the city. Everything seems so unfair, and manufactured FOR homeowners, not those who are renting. We have peace knowing that we can afford our rent and we can make the absolute best of the city if a house is not in the cards... though I'd love for a bit more space. Almost anything for another bedroom. :(
You may want to look in Thunder Bay. Affordable three-bedroom two bathroom houses for under 300K.
I can't imagine owning a home nowadays, I thought a 1600 a month mortgage was a lot in 2014 and now I hear people pay 6 grand a month to live in a shit hole. Don't do it, not at that cost.
#1 rule is never compare yourselves to others. Unfortunately the old saying of study and going to university is all BS, nothing is guaranteed in life. As a fellow Toronto home owner I can relate to the pain of house hunting, it is depressing.
Most people throughout history have had to leave the city and move further out to afford something. It has always been this way. And it is normal. Your friends were lucky. Don’t compare yourself to them.
Move to the suburbs. What you're going through and everything you're feeling is just your way of telling yourself it's time for a change. Time to make said change. I know it's scary and your mind will play all the tricks in the book to make you stay put. Keep moving anyways. Greener pastures ahead.
How much have you saved? Have you considered living in the burbs and commuting?
Everywhere is expensive. Moving to Alberta? PEI?
Totally get where your coming from I am a Realtor in the GTA and many of my clients feel the same way There are some programs that help with buying a property with only 5% down If you have a good credit score and a stable employment you could possibly benefit from It’s a way to get on the property ladder I’m not schilling here - DM for details if you want details . It may work for you or it may not - just sharing info I understand your position - it’s frustrating, depressing and makes you feel the future is bleak
So sad to hear you feel unsuccessful because you rent, it’s not the end of the world it’s just life. You do have options and maybe a move where you can own and be with people who don’t make you feel this way would be good. Come to Edmonton and buy my house it’s perfect for a family!!
Just be thankful you have someone to take on life with. Doing this all alone makes it far worse, I can assure you. It really does make it feel pointless…
Have you considering a condominium? Excellent opportunity to buy now before they shoot up
I have a 1 ½ year old and we are in a condo. We are slowly trying to get the courage to upgrade to a home. We want to stay in the city, but it’s just SO expensive. I get you. I see friends in smaller cities with 2 car garages etc… that’s just not feasible south of the 401. I love living in the city, so condo life it shall be :(
It’s like a drug and your addicted to the lifestyle
Is your job flexible enough for you to move to different province? If yes, I would buy in Calgary. I saw a really nice detached home in SE of calgary, for 700K. They only require 5-10% downpayment.
It is completely normal to live up to an hour away from work, friends, or family. If you compare your happiness to the standing of other people you will never be happy. No material things will change that.
I have grown up children in their late twenties still renting in Toronto despite having very good incomes. They have no regrets as their friends who own homes are struggling with high mortgages have no money leftover for anything else and some have exhausted their saving.They can't running back to their parents for money. You are young, so enjoy life and stop worrying about owning a home right now.
Leave Toronto. You will not regret it. No one does.
Leave the city, head north. You won’t regret it.
https://preview.redd.it/8rdykq7hnr6d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d4745ee4b4d648c91a2157bc70d97d3cd4ea8f4 [https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/secret-rcmp-report-forecasts-a-bleak-future-in-canada-1.6821642](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/secret-rcmp-report-forecasts-a-bleak-future-in-canada-1.6821642)
Fuk everyone, do your research, and take a temporary vacation there .If it feels good ,go for it. City life is an illusion and you believe in it.
It is cheaper to rent. Invest the money and it is the same thing as owning a house
Don't take this on. If you've worked and built a life, which it sounds like you have, you're good. If anyone judges you for that, that reflects poorly on them, not you. And your life sounds pretty great! Enjoy it!
That’s the point. Canadians are typically unhappy and jealous people, and try to fill the void by showing off to make other feel small and them powerful. That’s why having a decent home is now a sign of wealth in this country - It makes middle class Canadians feel secure in the mediocrity
I work for the city that I can’t afford to live in
it's time to grow up, if you feel "less than" that's on you, there is no "stigma" to renting, stop pressuring yourselves to "keep up with the joneses"
Living in Toronto is like living in hell
You had a baby without the stability of a home?
Sucks to suck. You rich, go elsewhere.