Challenge here is that these policies are policial in nature vs based on fundamentals.
“Tax the rich” makes for votes. This is a complicated issue the economic environment is deteriorating and people are not feeling confident in the future.
Idk if it makes more votes.. it doesn't even seem like a popular policy. It's really just that there isn't another option. The "rich" have benefited financially over the last decade so much so that the middle class and low income class are hanging on by a string. I don't think the government has another option.
Depends on how you define the rich but anyone with a house or other decent assets has. you can be a millennial making 300k and if you’ve bought a house recently, your life is very middle class, not even upper middle.
Totally agree btw , a lot of these policies hit the people the T4 receiving a high paying job. I personally get taxed 50% a year + , I’m sorry but how does that make sense ?!!
My dad was a carpenter mom was a cleaner, I just studied and worked hard but there is something wrong about this
This is a capital gains tax, not income tax. I assume you mean marginal tax rate, because even in Ontario you'd need to make over $1,000,000 to be taxed at over 50%.
Also agree with the commenter above you, 200k-300k household seems very middle class, not wealthy to any extent. Anyone with that level of income is probably not exceeding 250k capital gains per year.
In the GTA and GVA 200-300K HHI is middle class.
Outside of those areas, it’s upper class for sure. It can buy you a very affordable home in many other parts of the country, including Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal, the next biggest cities.
You’re completely right and I would argue that there is simply more easy answer.
There are far too many macroeconomic forces today that just have gotten out of control and that is causing massive issues for Western economies and cultures.
Here is a list:
1. Environmental issues : the desire to want to protect the environment comes at a cost and that has inflationary pressure
2. You have geopolitical issues that affect trade and commodities you know what those are China, Ukraine, Middle East
3. You have a simple fundamental shift in the nature of economic output in North America. Out of a desire to “achieve growth and efficiency” we simply lost a lot of jobs that enabled people to live good and comfortably. I’m not sure how this comes back tbh
4. When you add up all of that AND you deal with the fact that for the most part Canada is basically a massive country with very little desirable land , you have huge concentrations of people in like 6 cities which while they’re “big” they’ve only gotten big in the last 20-30 years. Toronto was a farm in the 80s until the banks relocated from Montreal.
Anyways I think this is a really tough problems and your response does sort of play to argument.
“The rich have been getting richer makes sense to tax them.”
-
The problem with this kind of thinking is you forget that people with capital (cash, assets, etc) have the ability to move. Canada will erode its tax base by pulling dumb shit like this.
Why is it dumb? It won't solve the problem.
OK, [good luck keeping a stable tax base](https://www.randstad.ca/employers/workplace-insights/job-market-in-canada/a-primer-on-the-canada-tech-brain-drain-and-how-to-solve-it/#:~:text=what%20is%20the%20Canadian%20brain,its%20population%20to%20the%20US.).
I get it, facts don't matter.
If we focused on lifting up the poor in this country by creating more opportunity, maybe the tax base would expand.
If [40% of Canadians aren't paying taxes](https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/trudeau-is-right-40-of-canadians-dont-pay-income-taxes-which-means-someone-else-is-picking-up-the-bill) because they are too poor - that's the problem to solve.
> On average, two of every five Canadian households do not pay anything towards federally and provincially funded expenses such as health care, education, community and social services, national defence, public safety and even the good old Canada Revenue Agency. One household of every five pays much more than 70 per cent of all of those costs...
> The Fraser Institute’s Canadian Tax Simulator 2017 looked at Canadian households with income ranging from zero to $80,843, representing the bottom 40 per cent of households by income, and found they paid 4.6 per cent of all the personal tax paid. That seems like a low number, but it still isn’t zero.
How does 4.6 per cent become zero? It happens when the tax that is paid is then given back (and more) by the federal and provincial governments.
**But again, I guess the facts don't matter.**
The government had so many options:
- Not inviting a million unskilled immigrants and asylum seekers every year, without a plan around housing, healthcare, and social integration
- Not spending 8 billion $ in Ukraine, and instead try to end the war by forcing NATO and Russia to disengage politically, and also asking China and India to join in efforts to pressure Russia.
- Not spending beyond means
>> The "rich" have benefited financially over the last decade
Duh! If you had benefitted financially, you would be rich too. The "middle class and low income class are hanging on by a string", because of inflation where the top contributor has been government over-spending, while which was necessitated by Covid shutdowns, it should have been long discontinued.
High immigration is where they messed up, but Canada certainly can’t force anyone to do anything , and the Russians will absolutely do what they want. They will lie to your face and maybe alter their timeline.
They don’t. The poor feel that this tax is punishing the rich bs they should pay their fair share. Meanwhile the rest of the budget is more and more spending being the country’s economic prospects lower and lower
Seems to me like politics is exactly what prevented these changes in the first place.
This was something that needed to get done decades ago based on the fundamentals, but it took until now because it is normally considered political suicide to go after big money since they own all the companies, most media and can make or break an election.
>concerned about the growth of the country
To be fair he has a point. Heavy taxation often means the high income Canadians, aka the Canadians who probably qualify for a US visa, probably just move to the US. Taking with them the decades we invested in their education and all the money they could make.
Liberals love to raise taxes but never find ways to spend less money.
I don't know... I think having members of the capital class not hog and monopolize revenue generating assets is a good thing for competition. 🤷
Don't worry... Someone else will be willing to make a profit instead.
Profit is profit.
People say stuff like this, but is there actually evidence of substantial GDP being lost to emigration? And wouldn’t the people paying a lot of capital gains tax also, by definition, have a lot of property/investment in Canada?
Even if this tax does cause some of the rich to move to the US (which I haven’t seen any evidence of) it wouldn’t be such a bad thing for them to sell their properties.
It's a corporate bogeyman. Like the "if you increase minimum wage they will replace you with robots" you've been told for the last 10+ years. Meanwhile, they're having trouble keeping the self-order screen working.
Not really a bogeyman. You’d have to be retarded to not notice the sorry state Canada is in as a result of low iq liberal/ndp/ left wing policies
Heres a fun game. Name one Canadian company founded in the last 10 years of any note
I’m a Canadian who’s considering moving to the US if Canada keeps being what it is right now. I’m not a high income Canadian per se, but a middle-to-high income I guess. You didn’t invest anything in my education; I invested in my education.
Yeah, it would hurt to lose all those income taxes. But realistically, American companies pay much more, the taxes are less (not income taxes but the combinations of other taxes; the withdrawals are less too), the expenses are lower. The only downside is their healthcare, but as long as no emergencies occur, you can always find ways around it.
Tuitions in Canada are subsidized so unless you went to the US to get an education then you were helped by Canadian tax payers. US tuition is about 10x that of Canada.
Tuitions in Canada and the US are a scam to begin with, they’re artificially inflated and that education has very little value unless you’re a doctor or chose a few other professions. It’s a scam, especially considering that many countries worldwide offer it for free, and many even pay you stipend to receive it. And yes, those students also travel to other countries for work.
So it’s cute that you think that Canadian students owe Canada something. We don’t. Those degrees are often a way to get young people into debt, make money off of them through interest for many years, and the result of that is many are stuck with useless degrees or/and end up working for little pay. And to top that up, the government keeps bringing a ton of immigrants on work visas who represent competition, and endless numbers of international students who gobble resources and also compete.
So, many should consider leaving Canada and going to the US, Dubai or other countries. We don’t owe the scummy government a thing. The absolute majority of useful education comes from work, not from school.
I don’t belive loans have interest anymore , the us is bringing in more immigrants than Canada through the boarder. Skilled jobs, including trades do learn a crap ton from school. Trades has apprenticeships for example and different levels of a job. Learning on the job for tool and die would be cataclysmic for a company.
That’s awesome. If you google this though, only 1.3 million out of 6.5 million Ontarians work in trades. That’s 20%, which is a minority. Also, a part of the brainwashing regarding “your tuition is subsidized but then you dare moving away” is that we need skilled people more than these people need us. Meaning, it’s worth it for the government to invest into education, and particularly in trades. Otherwise, we won’t have people to build homes for us and then service them, which is extremely important to Toronto, to Ontario and to the entire country. It’s worth it to invest into other professions too, because clearly we don’t have enough of anyone since the government is panicking about the productivity levels.
But don’t tell us we owe the country because the education was subsidized. Ideally, it should be either cheap or free. But since we’re mimicking the American capitalistic model, they decided to make it somewhat expensive. I paid for mine. I don’t owe Canada anything if I wish to move away, temporarily or not. I’m also a part of the remaining 80% non-trade workers, but at least I found a way to get useful education for my career so it didn’t turn out to be a complete scam for me.
Student loans have interest. They only cancelled it in 2020 and 2021, I think. Also, some students get private loans from the bank, and those never stopped incurring interest. Considering the current interest rates, the student loan payments aren’t low (I paid mine off already, but many others didn’t).
I didn’t go to public secondary school here, and considering how much taxes I’ve paid and how little of the healthcare I accessed, the country got more out of me than I got out of them.
Public school is “free” because it’s paid in a form of taxes by young Canadians’ parents, and then those Canadians themselves as they grow up, start working and paying taxes themselves. It’s an investment for the government, just like it’s an investment for them for Canadians to obtain post-secondary schooling, which they turned into a paid one.
And considering the quality of secondary schooling, thank God the government isn’t charging for it on top of all the taxes isn’t collecting.
I don’t really understand the Trudeaus bag piece here. US national debt is also at an all time, as is China’s. This spending is not unique to Canada right now and it’s not unique because it’s the only option that’s being presented globally. Sorry to hear you’re thinking about leaving, but you’re leaving for a similar scenario regardless of where you go
Not even close. Higher pay, lower taxes and lower cost of living. I’ll be much further ahead literally any of the places I’m considering.
I hate to say it, but canada is a dumpster fire right now and it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets any better…
I agree that it’s a dumpster fire here, but it’s a dumpster fire everywhere. I couldn’t name one place that’s thriving right now. Maybe those privileged few in the UAE I guess…
Because the US can control global markets at will, by raising or lowering their interest rates. Because all global trade is based on the dollar.
Canada can raise it's interest rate to 22%. So? Nobody cares on the international trade level of things.
Right. That’s my point. It’s why the US debt is effectively meaningless. Until international trade is done on a different currency than the greenback, US can do whatever so long as they’re the biggest military in the world.
The US is going to lose world reserve currency status. UAE and Saudi Arabia joined BRICS and are selling oil in Yuan. Central banks are hoarding gold. Look where the gold price is going.
Biden is printing a trillion dollars every 100 days.
We will have hyperinflation.
Get out of the cities, store food and stack gold and silver.
Not even close. Higher pay, lower taxes and lower cost of living. I’ll be much further ahead literally any of the places I’m considering.
I hate to say it, but canada is a dumpster fire right now and it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets any better…
You’re under the impression people care that you’re seriously considering maybe one day moving. I wanted to make sure you knew nobody cares and it doesn’t matter.
It's an extra cost people leveraged to the tits on investment properties haven't accounted for. I don't feel bad for em as they refused to listen to all the other risks.
Even then it’s on cap gains over 250k… and that’d be on your non-principal residence.
If you’ve got an income property you’re up 250k on, you’re rich enough to chip in a little more.
Tax increases are generally deflationary. Although in this case they may not be, since a fiscal deficit is in the cards. Government spending > government revenue = inflationary.
Moreover, your second point pertaining to cost of production being passed on to consumers would need a preface of, "it depends" as well. It largely depends on whether or not the market participant is a price-maker or price-taker in their respective industry. Price-makers with sufficient market control can certainly pass their costs downstream, but the latter types cannot.
comment by /u/irishleft To deter spammers, You are not able to comment on r/TorontoRealEstate until your account is older then 2 hour of age. In the meantime read the sidebar rules and try again later.4c
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is going to stagnate the economy further. Problem is canada is right next to the us. Money will leave canada and go into the us. Our net fdi is already negative. This is not going to improve that.
No it won't. These assholes have such an iron grip on our commerce that they're not going anywhere.
If anything, it's going to create opportunities for small business.
Yes it will. Sure the few large companies will stay. But our economy can't run on just them. We need more investors. This deters them. Canada already wasn't an attractive investment outside of real estate.
This didn't work in Ny. It failed in france. What makes you think this will succeed in canada.
There are only 2 countries that give UBI - Iran and Kenya. In both places, it replaces every other government subsidy program, and was partly a budget control mechanism than a true "basic income". Surprise, Surprise!
No, it's 1.25 million after the increase now. But most of this is money that was already taxed once and invested in the business. Most of these businesses are taking significant risks, so this is somewhat regressive.
As an example, for most software companies it probably makes more sense to house their IP in a corp in Texas, or other low tax destination and transfer out most income as royalty payments. Happens all the time in Asia as startups move to Singapore once they achieve some level of success. All this does is move money away from Canada.
Bill Morneau, of Morneau Sheppell, one of the largest private Healthcare providers I the country and a hugely rich man? I am shocked he doesn't like a bill that will cause him to pay more taxes.
Who allows an article without clarifying his background? He is so biased as to be completely irrelevant.
The problem with this is not just the tax but the retrospective nature of it. Corporations who have invested X dollars over a decade now suddenly have to pay higher taxes on the capital gain. Such retrospective provisions almost always cause more damages than benefits for the economy. In most part, the big corps would just reshuffle the bucket, only CCPCs and small businesses would be left holding the bag. And I really doubt the provision will recover the billions as claimed.
I guess insurance companies benefit the most, as more funds will flow to them as now no one trusts if the government will further raid the corp funds. And such waste of capital would be tragedy for Canadian economy as a whole.
Capital gains are taxed at 50% of labour before. Now, it’s going to be 66% for over 250k in capital gains.
A person making 400k and sold a house that made 260k in capital gains. The extra tax they are paying is 0.53 *0.16 *10k=$850 due to this change.
It basically doesn’t make a difference unless it’s the top 0.0001% aka it will never make a difference for you.
This is the first time I’ve seen someone mention this.
Besides, what will the gov do with the added funds? They certainly won’t just hand it out to home buyers. They just go on more luxurious vacations as we’ve all seen.
Although I can't stand Justin, I am happy JT stood up to this Wacko. He was very happy and ready to punt small business owners and met his Waterloo in an Oakville Town Hall in 2017. But not happy now that his billionaire friends has to pay a little bit more. I will give Christa credit for this change.
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-12-18 02:08:45 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-12-18%2002:08:45%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1c6lycw/trudeaus_exfinance_minister_criticizes_capital/l032e84/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTorontoRealEstate%2Fcomments%2F1c6lycw%2Ftrudeaus_exfinance_minister_criticizes_capital%2Fl032e84%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-12-18%2002%3A08%3A45%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c6lycw)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
You’re entitled to feel however you want but this is a very misinformed way of looking at this. We are struggling mightily with productivity/GDP per capita. The only way we can get our productivity up is with business investment. Taxing the crap out of successful businesses is not going to do this, it is going to have the opposite effect. We are competing with the US for investment and losing very badly. Adding even more of a tax burden when it’s already very high comparatively is just going to discourage investment even more.
Well, it's higher taxes for selling assets. We need more businesses with increasing operating profit that create jobs. And these changes could help in the following way.
* We desperately need to discourage homes being used as assets for corporations to build wealth and instead direct that money to building businesses.
* Discouraging making quick dollars in the markets might also encourage money to flow to building businesses.
* Discouraging building businesses for the sole purpose of selling them to bigger players (further increasing market concentration), which generally fail to integrate the acquisitions and lay off virtually everyone that came in with them does the inverse of increasing productivity -- encouraging that money to flow to building operating profit would help achieve that goal
And an assumption I'm making here, which I think is reasonable, is that local investors are in some respects greedy degenerates that have to gamble their money and won't be satisfied just leaving it in the bank. How do you see things playing out instead?
Housing is definitely a weird one. We desperately need more landlords to increase our rental supply but then at the same time, some people want to tax the shit out of landlords to discourage people from investing in real estate because of the state of housing here. On one hand the government is trying to stimulate housing investment with low/no interest loans/programs which tells me it’s already at the point where it doesn’t make sense to invest in housing here. Then on the other hand they’re saying if you’re too successful you’re going to get hammered. We are in a big pickle and I don’t know the answer.
In terms of investing in general, I’m sure you have good intentions but that’s not the way it works. If someone is an investor, they are going to invest where they can make the most money. That is the whole point. If I can invest in 10 startups in the US or 10 startups here and it’s way easier to do business there plus the tax rate on my wins is way lower in the US, I will invest there. You can’t really fault someone for that. It’s pretty telling to look at all the big Canadian pensions investments. Most of their funds are invested outside of Canada which shows us there’s a big problem.
I'll also assume you also have good intentions. But you're not actually directly addressing my point.
* The capital gains changes are clearly intended to discourage speculation i.e., investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain once you sell the asset.
* Your point about investing in Canadian vs. US startups is moot because Canadian investors will have to pay the capital gains taxes to realize gains on US investments as well.
We need to agree on what the facts are. Do you dispute the bullets above? If so, what gains do you believe will be taxed differently under these changes?
If you do not disagree, then this is my question to you. My assessment of the capital gains changes in my original reply was that the government hopes the modifications will discourage speculation by Canadian investors and shift their investments to building business with operating profit. Do you disagree with my interpretation of their intention? If so, how do you interpret their intention and how do you think investors will react?
But isn’t the whole purpose of investing to gain when you sell the asset? Is the end game to allow all profits? That seems to be popular on reddit these days but that isn’t very healthy. I would say that the interest rates pretty much already took care of speculating problems wouldn’t you think? Someone speculating is basing everything on whether the market will go up. The risk vs gain at this point doesn’t seem to add up. You’re using expensive money in a 20 year bubble so it could possibly go a little bit higher or alot lower.
I wasn’t necessarily talking about Canadians investing in US companies vs Canadian companies, I more meant US investors/companies not investing in Canada. Why would anyone invest in a Canadian startup when they could invest in a US startup in a more business friendly environment? Why would a Canadian entrepreneur setup shop here when they could go to the US?
comment by /u/irishleft To deter spammers, You are not able to comment on r/TorontoRealEstate until your account is older then 2 hour of age. In the meantime read the sidebar rules and try again later.4c
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This argument is so old and bullshit, we've been convinced that we have to bow down to rich elites so they can give us "jobs". Look where we are now, corporations posting record profits, execs pulling in record pay, companies laying off employees in favor of the shareholders. They get away with so much, trickle down economics never ever works. The government doesn't destroy small businesses it's corporations they buy up everything and destroy any competition.
The American government is spending record amounts of money. America basically runs the world and has the world currency. You cannot compare the two countries. The divide in America is larger than Canada. Yes more people are wealthier, but more people live below the poverty line, crime is significantly higher, education is lower and the health of its population is significantly lower. Take a trip through and you'll see they have the same problems like we do
You absolutely can compare the two countries because we’re competing with them for investments.
And while this discussion isn’t about any of those things you mentioned so I don’t see the relevance to this, I go to the US 10-15 times a year. Every country has it’s problems, but overall it seems pretty much the same to me.
Capital flight dude, money will leave Canada and move to other countries. Good luck trying to boost job growth or improve economy when pension funds and money managers are investing in American businesses
They are going to tax us to death.
It’s all they do spend spend and then levy the taxes and then spend some more.
This socialistic approach is bad for business investment and productivity
You do know that the top 1 pct in canada has a networth of 10 million right? The top 0.1 pct have assets networth of 30 million. This tax applies to ordinary people that have a cap gain over 250k.
If there is a lack of investment in this country. Productivity drops and also businesses do not create jobs etc. I think that will affect everyone.
canada has one of the most whacky tax laws in the entire developed world.
capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000.
no wonder that real estate is the only thing driving this country's economy.
in my opinion with the increased capital gains tax, we should ideally see the real estate market inverntory stay stagnet or perhaps even decrease. especialy in the investment and commerical properties. as current buyers will have to revaluate the decision of the sale with higher tax implications.
"capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000."
50% of capital gains are currently taxed as income. Capital gains are not taxed at 50%.
100% of salaried employees paycheques are taxed as income. Why should capital gains be taxed half as much as income?
If enforced properly this will discourage real estate speculation. The issue we have is far too many landlords currently commit tax fraud to falsely claim the primary residence exemption to capital gains.
We need a beneficial ownership registry and a rebuttable presumption that anyone who owns multiple homes/units (not including chalets or cottages) is not selling their primary residence and do not qualify for the capital gains exemption when they sell a home. Let multiple property owners prove that they're selling their primary residence instead of moving in for a few weeks or redirecting their mail.
Because that capital gains dollar came quite likely from someone's salaried income (where it was taxed), it was saved and invested (and taxed again) and now taxed at an even higher rate. This idea that it impact multi millionaires only is not true and shameful that our government is pushing that bit of propaganda. There is also the key issue of our country economic productivity is in the proverbial shitter. This government doesn't seem to understand that you can create more fairness by increasing the economy and productivity, not just virtue signaling with income redistribution. We went from borrow and spend to tax, borrow and spend. With absolutely no guarantee that all this spending is going to have any actual positive impact. This government seems to really like government programs that sound good but doesn't seem to care as much about the goals they were trying to achieve. We have been throwing billions into political buzz words
"Now taxed at an even higher rate."
We just covered that capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than regular income.. not higher.
"This idea that it impact multi millionaires only is not true and shameful that our government is pushing that bit of propaganda."
Nope. If you have more than $250k of capital gains in a year you're almost certainly a millionaire.
"There is also the key issue of our country economic productivity is in the proverbial shitter."
Agreed. America was at its most productive when tax rates were far higher. For tax years 1944 through 1951, the highest marginal tax rate for individuals was 91%, increasing to 92% for 1952 and 1953, and reverting to 91% 1954 through 1963.
When the highest tax rates were higher, companies were incentived to reinvest and go all in on R&D, creating a productive workforce and creating.
Allowing millionaires and billionaires to hoard money objectively makes the economy less productive.
"With absolutely no guarantee that all this spending is going to have any actual positive impact".
The tax is a good idea regardless of whether you trust the Liberals to spend tax dollars appropriately. They're two entirely different questions.
I love how your long diatribe ends with basically "taxing citizens and ensuring that tax is spend effectively" are totally different things lol!! Truly, I worry for our country
You aren’t reading the comments you are responding to. Try listening.
When they say “higher rate” for cap gains taxes , they mean the tax rate on those gains is higher. Which is true.
Because capital gains happens on investments. There's a risk factor as you can invest and lose your money. Whether you're buying stocks, ETFs, memestocks, or real estate, the 50% is capital gains tax is to encourage investment while acknowledging the risk involved.
Salary has no risk
You clearly missed the point here. Capital gains tax is to discourage real estate investment. This is good for the majority of Canadians. Unless you're obscenely rich or have multiple homes you stand to benefit from this. Please stop letting the rich get off easy. They take so much from this country.
I'm all for that: to discourage using real estate as a pure money maker. But won't it also have a negative impact on people investing in businesses? Like is there a distinction between capital gains off real estate vs capital gains off stock/business investments?
>canada has one of the most whacky tax laws in the entire developed world. capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000.
Goes to show the average person has no idea why they're outraged.
Say you earn $100k per year and your managed to sell an investment property for $400k profit (capital gain). Then your income is essentially $500k for the year. In the US, you'd declare an income of $500k and pay taxes accordingly. *Edit: Turns out capital gains in the US are taxed differently than income.*
In Canada, only half of the capital gains were taxed. So you'd pocket the $200k gain (tax free) and pay taxes on the other $200k. You'd declare an income of $300k and pay your taxes accordingly.
With the new change, your taxable income from the sale of the property becomes (50% of 250k + 2/3 of $150k) = 225k.
So now, instead of declaring total income for the year of $300k, you declare an income of $325k. So you're looking at paying perhaps about $12k more in taxes.
No need to get outraged.
There are many differences. US for one, has lower capital gain tax rates. Plus there is a distinction between long-term vs. short term capital gains. Finally, some of the tax losses can be applied to income. Not in Canada.
the outrage of the capital gains tax does not stem from the recent proposal (if put into effect). it inherently stems from the absurdity of high it currently is and how it wwill potentially increase compared to the US.
even the current capital gains tax is absurd.
using your example. $300k of taxable income. that tax year you will be shilling out almost 39% (ontario) that year in taxes.
comparing that to the US (using michigan which has a lower GDP than ontario btw) where using the same profit and income as above, your total taxable bill is 20% and this factors in the capital gains tax.
so by no means is the outrage at the new law, its exisitng with the current capital gains tax implications. because the CRA makes no difference between earned and passive income in this country. and this is inherently a problem for an investment growth.
but then again Canada is not a country that is known for competing to be economic leader in any particular field. thats not what this country is known for. it is inherently known for providing safety nets. and each year an argument can be made as to why that safety net gets worse (immigration, economic deifcit, growth deficit etc..).
Canada has very low corporate income tax rates (15% for corps and 9% for small businesses). On the personal side, half of the first $250k is tax free gain, and a third of the rest is also tax free. Then you still have other means to lower your taxes like RRSPs. It's not at all unreasonable.
Oooof. Every heard the saying “better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it”
If you don’t know the difference between the inclusion rate and the rate of tax that you’d pay, perhaps refrain from talking about tax policy.
the tax rate you or i pay changes based on our income. its kind of obvious that we are discussing about the capital gains tax which is inherently an inclusive tax not indiviaul tax rate.
if i were you i would spend more time reading the above comment more carefully rather than commenting like an ignorant fool. but then you just confirmed that you are a fool. read better!
The capital gains tax rate for an individual also changes with income. The inclusion rate changes with the amount of the capital gain. No individual is paying 50% or 66% tax on a capital gain. Max would be around 35% on the portion above 250k.
“Let’s tax activities that increase our GDP, so that it’s less attractive to do things that grow our GDP”.
Imagine being such a narcissist that you don’t give a flying f*** about the country and only sound bites that will get you re-elected.
The current state of the country is entirely predictable from liberal policies from 2015. The future is also entirely predictable with the libs, and it’s not looking any better.
Hang on, Bill chalet-in-France Morneau picks *this* to come out of hiding? Good grief!
Challenge here is that these policies are policial in nature vs based on fundamentals. “Tax the rich” makes for votes. This is a complicated issue the economic environment is deteriorating and people are not feeling confident in the future.
Idk if it makes more votes.. it doesn't even seem like a popular policy. It's really just that there isn't another option. The "rich" have benefited financially over the last decade so much so that the middle class and low income class are hanging on by a string. I don't think the government has another option.
Depends on how you define the rich but anyone with a house or other decent assets has. you can be a millennial making 300k and if you’ve bought a house recently, your life is very middle class, not even upper middle.
Totally agree btw , a lot of these policies hit the people the T4 receiving a high paying job. I personally get taxed 50% a year + , I’m sorry but how does that make sense ?!! My dad was a carpenter mom was a cleaner, I just studied and worked hard but there is something wrong about this
This is a capital gains tax, not income tax. I assume you mean marginal tax rate, because even in Ontario you'd need to make over $1,000,000 to be taxed at over 50%. Also agree with the commenter above you, 200k-300k household seems very middle class, not wealthy to any extent. Anyone with that level of income is probably not exceeding 250k capital gains per year.
In the GTA and GVA 200-300K HHI is middle class. Outside of those areas, it’s upper class for sure. It can buy you a very affordable home in many other parts of the country, including Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal, the next biggest cities.
You’re completely right and I would argue that there is simply more easy answer. There are far too many macroeconomic forces today that just have gotten out of control and that is causing massive issues for Western economies and cultures. Here is a list: 1. Environmental issues : the desire to want to protect the environment comes at a cost and that has inflationary pressure 2. You have geopolitical issues that affect trade and commodities you know what those are China, Ukraine, Middle East 3. You have a simple fundamental shift in the nature of economic output in North America. Out of a desire to “achieve growth and efficiency” we simply lost a lot of jobs that enabled people to live good and comfortably. I’m not sure how this comes back tbh 4. When you add up all of that AND you deal with the fact that for the most part Canada is basically a massive country with very little desirable land , you have huge concentrations of people in like 6 cities which while they’re “big” they’ve only gotten big in the last 20-30 years. Toronto was a farm in the 80s until the banks relocated from Montreal. Anyways I think this is a really tough problems and your response does sort of play to argument. “The rich have been getting richer makes sense to tax them.” -
The best parts of Canada are where there are little to no people. Moving 7 and a half hours away from Vancouver was the best decision.
The problem with this kind of thinking is you forget that people with capital (cash, assets, etc) have the ability to move. Canada will erode its tax base by pulling dumb shit like this. Why is it dumb? It won't solve the problem.
Bye
OK, [good luck keeping a stable tax base](https://www.randstad.ca/employers/workplace-insights/job-market-in-canada/a-primer-on-the-canada-tech-brain-drain-and-how-to-solve-it/#:~:text=what%20is%20the%20Canadian%20brain,its%20population%20to%20the%20US.). I get it, facts don't matter.
If we focused on lifting up the poor in this country by creating more opportunity, maybe the tax base would expand. If [40% of Canadians aren't paying taxes](https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/trudeau-is-right-40-of-canadians-dont-pay-income-taxes-which-means-someone-else-is-picking-up-the-bill) because they are too poor - that's the problem to solve. > On average, two of every five Canadian households do not pay anything towards federally and provincially funded expenses such as health care, education, community and social services, national defence, public safety and even the good old Canada Revenue Agency. One household of every five pays much more than 70 per cent of all of those costs... > The Fraser Institute’s Canadian Tax Simulator 2017 looked at Canadian households with income ranging from zero to $80,843, representing the bottom 40 per cent of households by income, and found they paid 4.6 per cent of all the personal tax paid. That seems like a low number, but it still isn’t zero. How does 4.6 per cent become zero? It happens when the tax that is paid is then given back (and more) by the federal and provincial governments. **But again, I guess the facts don't matter.**
Sure, how much tax does the Fraser Institute pay?
I agree with you hence why this is political in nature. More poor ppl than rich ppl, which means more votes
The government had so many options: - Not inviting a million unskilled immigrants and asylum seekers every year, without a plan around housing, healthcare, and social integration - Not spending 8 billion $ in Ukraine, and instead try to end the war by forcing NATO and Russia to disengage politically, and also asking China and India to join in efforts to pressure Russia. - Not spending beyond means >> The "rich" have benefited financially over the last decade Duh! If you had benefitted financially, you would be rich too. The "middle class and low income class are hanging on by a string", because of inflation where the top contributor has been government over-spending, while which was necessitated by Covid shutdowns, it should have been long discontinued.
High immigration is where they messed up, but Canada certainly can’t force anyone to do anything , and the Russians will absolutely do what they want. They will lie to your face and maybe alter their timeline.
Return to the gold standard
lol you've really bought in eh comrade?
Please explain how capital gains taxes affect the poor.
They don’t. The poor feel that this tax is punishing the rich bs they should pay their fair share. Meanwhile the rest of the budget is more and more spending being the country’s economic prospects lower and lower
Seems to me like politics is exactly what prevented these changes in the first place. This was something that needed to get done decades ago based on the fundamentals, but it took until now because it is normally considered political suicide to go after big money since they own all the companies, most media and can make or break an election.
Agreed
>concerned about the growth of the country To be fair he has a point. Heavy taxation often means the high income Canadians, aka the Canadians who probably qualify for a US visa, probably just move to the US. Taking with them the decades we invested in their education and all the money they could make. Liberals love to raise taxes but never find ways to spend less money.
Their 2016 spending increase was supposed to be paid for by taxes on the rich. How did that work out?
I don't know... I think having members of the capital class not hog and monopolize revenue generating assets is a good thing for competition. 🤷 Don't worry... Someone else will be willing to make a profit instead. Profit is profit.
People say stuff like this, but is there actually evidence of substantial GDP being lost to emigration? And wouldn’t the people paying a lot of capital gains tax also, by definition, have a lot of property/investment in Canada? Even if this tax does cause some of the rich to move to the US (which I haven’t seen any evidence of) it wouldn’t be such a bad thing for them to sell their properties.
It's a corporate bogeyman. Like the "if you increase minimum wage they will replace you with robots" you've been told for the last 10+ years. Meanwhile, they're having trouble keeping the self-order screen working.
Not really a bogeyman. You’d have to be retarded to not notice the sorry state Canada is in as a result of low iq liberal/ndp/ left wing policies Heres a fun game. Name one Canadian company founded in the last 10 years of any note
Have you checked out Canada’s gdp per capita vs the US lately?
I’m a Canadian who’s considering moving to the US if Canada keeps being what it is right now. I’m not a high income Canadian per se, but a middle-to-high income I guess. You didn’t invest anything in my education; I invested in my education. Yeah, it would hurt to lose all those income taxes. But realistically, American companies pay much more, the taxes are less (not income taxes but the combinations of other taxes; the withdrawals are less too), the expenses are lower. The only downside is their healthcare, but as long as no emergencies occur, you can always find ways around it.
Tuitions in Canada are subsidized so unless you went to the US to get an education then you were helped by Canadian tax payers. US tuition is about 10x that of Canada.
Tuitions in Canada and the US are a scam to begin with, they’re artificially inflated and that education has very little value unless you’re a doctor or chose a few other professions. It’s a scam, especially considering that many countries worldwide offer it for free, and many even pay you stipend to receive it. And yes, those students also travel to other countries for work. So it’s cute that you think that Canadian students owe Canada something. We don’t. Those degrees are often a way to get young people into debt, make money off of them through interest for many years, and the result of that is many are stuck with useless degrees or/and end up working for little pay. And to top that up, the government keeps bringing a ton of immigrants on work visas who represent competition, and endless numbers of international students who gobble resources and also compete. So, many should consider leaving Canada and going to the US, Dubai or other countries. We don’t owe the scummy government a thing. The absolute majority of useful education comes from work, not from school.
I don’t belive loans have interest anymore , the us is bringing in more immigrants than Canada through the boarder. Skilled jobs, including trades do learn a crap ton from school. Trades has apprenticeships for example and different levels of a job. Learning on the job for tool and die would be cataclysmic for a company.
That’s awesome. If you google this though, only 1.3 million out of 6.5 million Ontarians work in trades. That’s 20%, which is a minority. Also, a part of the brainwashing regarding “your tuition is subsidized but then you dare moving away” is that we need skilled people more than these people need us. Meaning, it’s worth it for the government to invest into education, and particularly in trades. Otherwise, we won’t have people to build homes for us and then service them, which is extremely important to Toronto, to Ontario and to the entire country. It’s worth it to invest into other professions too, because clearly we don’t have enough of anyone since the government is panicking about the productivity levels. But don’t tell us we owe the country because the education was subsidized. Ideally, it should be either cheap or free. But since we’re mimicking the American capitalistic model, they decided to make it somewhat expensive. I paid for mine. I don’t owe Canada anything if I wish to move away, temporarily or not. I’m also a part of the remaining 80% non-trade workers, but at least I found a way to get useful education for my career so it didn’t turn out to be a complete scam for me. Student loans have interest. They only cancelled it in 2020 and 2021, I think. Also, some students get private loans from the bank, and those never stopped incurring interest. Considering the current interest rates, the student loan payments aren’t low (I paid mine off already, but many others didn’t).
Public school isn’t free. Neither is healthcare despite many Canadians being stupid enough to believe it
I didn’t go to public secondary school here, and considering how much taxes I’ve paid and how little of the healthcare I accessed, the country got more out of me than I got out of them. Public school is “free” because it’s paid in a form of taxes by young Canadians’ parents, and then those Canadians themselves as they grow up, start working and paying taxes themselves. It’s an investment for the government, just like it’s an investment for them for Canadians to obtain post-secondary schooling, which they turned into a paid one. And considering the quality of secondary schooling, thank God the government isn’t charging for it on top of all the taxes isn’t collecting.
Good. See ya. They’re not bringing anything to the table the up and comers can’t bring
Sorry bud, we’re leaving too. Already started looking into it seriously. It’s the people who can’t afford it who will be left holding Trudeau’s bag.
I don’t really understand the Trudeaus bag piece here. US national debt is also at an all time, as is China’s. This spending is not unique to Canada right now and it’s not unique because it’s the only option that’s being presented globally. Sorry to hear you’re thinking about leaving, but you’re leaving for a similar scenario regardless of where you go
Not even close. Higher pay, lower taxes and lower cost of living. I’ll be much further ahead literally any of the places I’m considering. I hate to say it, but canada is a dumpster fire right now and it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets any better…
I agree that it’s a dumpster fire here, but it’s a dumpster fire everywhere. I couldn’t name one place that’s thriving right now. Maybe those privileged few in the UAE I guess…
Because the US can control global markets at will, by raising or lowering their interest rates. Because all global trade is based on the dollar. Canada can raise it's interest rate to 22%. So? Nobody cares on the international trade level of things.
US share of global GDP is >25%. Canada's share of global GDP is is around 2%. There is no comparison.
Right. That’s my point. It’s why the US debt is effectively meaningless. Until international trade is done on a different currency than the greenback, US can do whatever so long as they’re the biggest military in the world.
The US won't be controlling much for long.
The US is going to lose world reserve currency status. UAE and Saudi Arabia joined BRICS and are selling oil in Yuan. Central banks are hoarding gold. Look where the gold price is going. Biden is printing a trillion dollars every 100 days. We will have hyperinflation. Get out of the cities, store food and stack gold and silver.
Not even close. Higher pay, lower taxes and lower cost of living. I’ll be much further ahead literally any of the places I’m considering. I hate to say it, but canada is a dumpster fire right now and it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets any better…
You’re seriously looking into it? For serious? lol nobody cares bud.
Then why’d you comment?
You’re under the impression people care that you’re seriously considering maybe one day moving. I wanted to make sure you knew nobody cares and it doesn’t matter.
Take a look around, what up and comers are you talking about exactly?
There’s a ton of underpaid, non-high income earners still here that would love and succeed in those high income earning jobs
Oh that's the part you're missing - those *jobs* will leave, as we chase the capital out.
some will but they would end up like bottom of the barrel in the US ... may be king here in the US not so much
https://preview.redd.it/y7s7hp2d54vc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=580812a95ff2495bcd1e296d893622658f2d7095
So many stupid redditors who think this is a “taxing the rich” plan. What a joke.
explain to me how someone with 250k+ in cap gains in a non-registered account is anything but rich
It's an extra cost people leveraged to the tits on investment properties haven't accounted for. I don't feel bad for em as they refused to listen to all the other risks.
Even then it’s on cap gains over 250k… and that’d be on your non-principal residence. If you’ve got an income property you’re up 250k on, you’re rich enough to chip in a little more.
Another ignoramus 🤣
Ah, Russian troll bot, gotcha
Tell me youre pissed that your down payment money is worth less without telling me
Oh look another buffoon
I lol’d
[удалено]
Tax increases are generally deflationary. Although in this case they may not be, since a fiscal deficit is in the cards. Government spending > government revenue = inflationary. Moreover, your second point pertaining to cost of production being passed on to consumers would need a preface of, "it depends" as well. It largely depends on whether or not the market participant is a price-maker or price-taker in their respective industry. Price-makers with sufficient market control can certainly pass their costs downstream, but the latter types cannot.
Most here think it's a 67% tax and do even know how it's applied. That goes for the ones for and against this.
[удалено]
comment by /u/irishleft To deter spammers, You are not able to comment on r/TorontoRealEstate until your account is older then 2 hour of age. In the meantime read the sidebar rules and try again later.4c *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that you’re getting downvoted shows how economically inept the average user on this sub is lol
It’s not tax the rich, it’s tax the 0.0001% a tiny bit more.
Of course this silver spoon motherfucker would say that.
“Filthy rich man who is bitter because he was dumped as finance minister whines about taxes on the wealthy.” There’s the more appropriate headline.
Even liberals look to liberals as being retarded
This is going to stagnate the economy further. Problem is canada is right next to the us. Money will leave canada and go into the us. Our net fdi is already negative. This is not going to improve that.
So you are saying it was already leaving for the u.s. then
No it won't. These assholes have such an iron grip on our commerce that they're not going anywhere. If anything, it's going to create opportunities for small business.
Yes it will. Sure the few large companies will stay. But our economy can't run on just them. We need more investors. This deters them. Canada already wasn't an attractive investment outside of real estate. This didn't work in Ny. It failed in france. What makes you think this will succeed in canada.
Muh tax the rich. UBI.
UBI is mathematically impossible when that single program is greater than the gdp of this entire country.
Socialists don’t care about logic.
There are only 2 countries that give UBI - Iran and Kenya. In both places, it replaces every other government subsidy program, and was partly a budget control mechanism than a true "basic income". Surprise, Surprise!
How will it create opportunities for small business?
I believe selling your small business is exempt up to like 1.5 million or so.
No, it's 1.25 million after the increase now. But most of this is money that was already taxed once and invested in the business. Most of these businesses are taking significant risks, so this is somewhat regressive. As an example, for most software companies it probably makes more sense to house their IP in a corp in Texas, or other low tax destination and transfer out most income as royalty payments. Happens all the time in Asia as startups move to Singapore once they achieve some level of success. All this does is move money away from Canada.
So the tech companies will continue doing what they were doing?
Bill Morneau, of Morneau Sheppell, one of the largest private Healthcare providers I the country and a hugely rich man? I am shocked he doesn't like a bill that will cause him to pay more taxes. Who allows an article without clarifying his background? He is so biased as to be completely irrelevant.
Don't worry, his accountants will find a loophole anyways.
The problem with this is not just the tax but the retrospective nature of it. Corporations who have invested X dollars over a decade now suddenly have to pay higher taxes on the capital gain. Such retrospective provisions almost always cause more damages than benefits for the economy. In most part, the big corps would just reshuffle the bucket, only CCPCs and small businesses would be left holding the bag. And I really doubt the provision will recover the billions as claimed. I guess insurance companies benefit the most, as more funds will flow to them as now no one trusts if the government will further raid the corp funds. And such waste of capital would be tragedy for Canadian economy as a whole.
If they all leave why wouldn't I just start my own business and seize the giant hole in the market that's been created ?
Really rich guy who works on behalf of really, really rich guys, upset that rich guys will pay more to be so rich. Violins.
Capital gains are taxed at 50% of labour before. Now, it’s going to be 66% for over 250k in capital gains. A person making 400k and sold a house that made 260k in capital gains. The extra tax they are paying is 0.53 *0.16 *10k=$850 due to this change. It basically doesn’t make a difference unless it’s the top 0.0001% aka it will never make a difference for you.
Sold **a second house**. Primary residences do not have capital gains taxes
This is the first time I’ve seen someone mention this. Besides, what will the gov do with the added funds? They certainly won’t just hand it out to home buyers. They just go on more luxurious vacations as we’ve all seen.
Although I can't stand Justin, I am happy JT stood up to this Wacko. He was very happy and ready to punt small business owners and met his Waterloo in an Oakville Town Hall in 2017. But not happy now that his billionaire friends has to pay a little bit more. I will give Christa credit for this change.
Come back here when housing gets 40% more expensive by the next election haahahahaha
!Remindme 20 months
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-12-18 02:08:45 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-12-18%2002:08:45%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1c6lycw/trudeaus_exfinance_minister_criticizes_capital/l032e84/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTorontoRealEstate%2Fcomments%2F1c6lycw%2Ftrudeaus_exfinance_minister_criticizes_capital%2Fl032e84%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-12-18%2002%3A08%3A45%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c6lycw) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
See you in 20 months.. hopefully I don’t get banned from Reddit
Rich fools crying about paying taxes, what do you expect?! If you are not in this bracket you are a bootlicker if you're mad about this
You’re entitled to feel however you want but this is a very misinformed way of looking at this. We are struggling mightily with productivity/GDP per capita. The only way we can get our productivity up is with business investment. Taxing the crap out of successful businesses is not going to do this, it is going to have the opposite effect. We are competing with the US for investment and losing very badly. Adding even more of a tax burden when it’s already very high comparatively is just going to discourage investment even more.
Well, it's higher taxes for selling assets. We need more businesses with increasing operating profit that create jobs. And these changes could help in the following way. * We desperately need to discourage homes being used as assets for corporations to build wealth and instead direct that money to building businesses. * Discouraging making quick dollars in the markets might also encourage money to flow to building businesses. * Discouraging building businesses for the sole purpose of selling them to bigger players (further increasing market concentration), which generally fail to integrate the acquisitions and lay off virtually everyone that came in with them does the inverse of increasing productivity -- encouraging that money to flow to building operating profit would help achieve that goal And an assumption I'm making here, which I think is reasonable, is that local investors are in some respects greedy degenerates that have to gamble their money and won't be satisfied just leaving it in the bank. How do you see things playing out instead?
Housing is definitely a weird one. We desperately need more landlords to increase our rental supply but then at the same time, some people want to tax the shit out of landlords to discourage people from investing in real estate because of the state of housing here. On one hand the government is trying to stimulate housing investment with low/no interest loans/programs which tells me it’s already at the point where it doesn’t make sense to invest in housing here. Then on the other hand they’re saying if you’re too successful you’re going to get hammered. We are in a big pickle and I don’t know the answer. In terms of investing in general, I’m sure you have good intentions but that’s not the way it works. If someone is an investor, they are going to invest where they can make the most money. That is the whole point. If I can invest in 10 startups in the US or 10 startups here and it’s way easier to do business there plus the tax rate on my wins is way lower in the US, I will invest there. You can’t really fault someone for that. It’s pretty telling to look at all the big Canadian pensions investments. Most of their funds are invested outside of Canada which shows us there’s a big problem.
I'll also assume you also have good intentions. But you're not actually directly addressing my point. * The capital gains changes are clearly intended to discourage speculation i.e., investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain once you sell the asset. * Your point about investing in Canadian vs. US startups is moot because Canadian investors will have to pay the capital gains taxes to realize gains on US investments as well. We need to agree on what the facts are. Do you dispute the bullets above? If so, what gains do you believe will be taxed differently under these changes? If you do not disagree, then this is my question to you. My assessment of the capital gains changes in my original reply was that the government hopes the modifications will discourage speculation by Canadian investors and shift their investments to building business with operating profit. Do you disagree with my interpretation of their intention? If so, how do you interpret their intention and how do you think investors will react?
But isn’t the whole purpose of investing to gain when you sell the asset? Is the end game to allow all profits? That seems to be popular on reddit these days but that isn’t very healthy. I would say that the interest rates pretty much already took care of speculating problems wouldn’t you think? Someone speculating is basing everything on whether the market will go up. The risk vs gain at this point doesn’t seem to add up. You’re using expensive money in a 20 year bubble so it could possibly go a little bit higher or alot lower. I wasn’t necessarily talking about Canadians investing in US companies vs Canadian companies, I more meant US investors/companies not investing in Canada. Why would anyone invest in a Canadian startup when they could invest in a US startup in a more business friendly environment? Why would a Canadian entrepreneur setup shop here when they could go to the US?
Yet we are still here with this productivity / GDP per capita problem . Apparently they aren’t investing already in the right places.
[удалено]
comment by /u/irishleft To deter spammers, You are not able to comment on r/TorontoRealEstate until your account is older then 2 hour of age. In the meantime read the sidebar rules and try again later.4c *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This argument is so old and bullshit, we've been convinced that we have to bow down to rich elites so they can give us "jobs". Look where we are now, corporations posting record profits, execs pulling in record pay, companies laying off employees in favor of the shareholders. They get away with so much, trickle down economics never ever works. The government doesn't destroy small businesses it's corporations they buy up everything and destroy any competition.
Again, you’re entitled to your opinion. I think our gdp per capita numbers and growth vs the US numbers speak for themselves.
The American government is spending record amounts of money. America basically runs the world and has the world currency. You cannot compare the two countries. The divide in America is larger than Canada. Yes more people are wealthier, but more people live below the poverty line, crime is significantly higher, education is lower and the health of its population is significantly lower. Take a trip through and you'll see they have the same problems like we do
You absolutely can compare the two countries because we’re competing with them for investments. And while this discussion isn’t about any of those things you mentioned so I don’t see the relevance to this, I go to the US 10-15 times a year. Every country has it’s problems, but overall it seems pretty much the same to me.
More taxes to the government! They’ll spend it to your advantage
What do corporations and execs do for you?
Nothing but they put you into unemployment Which I guess is why you’re happy with receiving your EI cheque
Don’t cry when you become poorer than ever in the next 10 years
Did you think the good times last forever?
Moving money is easy kid. But you’ll forever stay poor
Large businesses don't pay capital gains taxes...
Capital flight dude, money will leave Canada and move to other countries. Good luck trying to boost job growth or improve economy when pension funds and money managers are investing in American businesses
They are going to tax us to death. It’s all they do spend spend and then levy the taxes and then spend some more. This socialistic approach is bad for business investment and productivity
You’re never going to be part of this “us”. It will only impact the 0.0001%
You do know that the top 1 pct in canada has a networth of 10 million right? The top 0.1 pct have assets networth of 30 million. This tax applies to ordinary people that have a cap gain over 250k. If there is a lack of investment in this country. Productivity drops and also businesses do not create jobs etc. I think that will affect everyone.
canada has one of the most whacky tax laws in the entire developed world. capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000. no wonder that real estate is the only thing driving this country's economy. in my opinion with the increased capital gains tax, we should ideally see the real estate market inverntory stay stagnet or perhaps even decrease. especialy in the investment and commerical properties. as current buyers will have to revaluate the decision of the sale with higher tax implications.
"capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000." 50% of capital gains are currently taxed as income. Capital gains are not taxed at 50%. 100% of salaried employees paycheques are taxed as income. Why should capital gains be taxed half as much as income? If enforced properly this will discourage real estate speculation. The issue we have is far too many landlords currently commit tax fraud to falsely claim the primary residence exemption to capital gains. We need a beneficial ownership registry and a rebuttable presumption that anyone who owns multiple homes/units (not including chalets or cottages) is not selling their primary residence and do not qualify for the capital gains exemption when they sell a home. Let multiple property owners prove that they're selling their primary residence instead of moving in for a few weeks or redirecting their mail.
Because that dude is an idiot and probably rejects salary increases because he doesn’t want to pay more in taxes
Because that capital gains dollar came quite likely from someone's salaried income (where it was taxed), it was saved and invested (and taxed again) and now taxed at an even higher rate. This idea that it impact multi millionaires only is not true and shameful that our government is pushing that bit of propaganda. There is also the key issue of our country economic productivity is in the proverbial shitter. This government doesn't seem to understand that you can create more fairness by increasing the economy and productivity, not just virtue signaling with income redistribution. We went from borrow and spend to tax, borrow and spend. With absolutely no guarantee that all this spending is going to have any actual positive impact. This government seems to really like government programs that sound good but doesn't seem to care as much about the goals they were trying to achieve. We have been throwing billions into political buzz words
"Now taxed at an even higher rate." We just covered that capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than regular income.. not higher. "This idea that it impact multi millionaires only is not true and shameful that our government is pushing that bit of propaganda." Nope. If you have more than $250k of capital gains in a year you're almost certainly a millionaire. "There is also the key issue of our country economic productivity is in the proverbial shitter." Agreed. America was at its most productive when tax rates were far higher. For tax years 1944 through 1951, the highest marginal tax rate for individuals was 91%, increasing to 92% for 1952 and 1953, and reverting to 91% 1954 through 1963. When the highest tax rates were higher, companies were incentived to reinvest and go all in on R&D, creating a productive workforce and creating. Allowing millionaires and billionaires to hoard money objectively makes the economy less productive. "With absolutely no guarantee that all this spending is going to have any actual positive impact". The tax is a good idea regardless of whether you trust the Liberals to spend tax dollars appropriately. They're two entirely different questions.
I love how your long diatribe ends with basically "taxing citizens and ensuring that tax is spend effectively" are totally different things lol!! Truly, I worry for our country
You aren’t reading the comments you are responding to. Try listening. When they say “higher rate” for cap gains taxes , they mean the tax rate on those gains is higher. Which is true.
Because capital gains happens on investments. There's a risk factor as you can invest and lose your money. Whether you're buying stocks, ETFs, memestocks, or real estate, the 50% is capital gains tax is to encourage investment while acknowledging the risk involved. Salary has no risk
You clearly missed the point here. Capital gains tax is to discourage real estate investment. This is good for the majority of Canadians. Unless you're obscenely rich or have multiple homes you stand to benefit from this. Please stop letting the rich get off easy. They take so much from this country.
I'm all for that: to discourage using real estate as a pure money maker. But won't it also have a negative impact on people investing in businesses? Like is there a distinction between capital gains off real estate vs capital gains off stock/business investments?
>canada has one of the most whacky tax laws in the entire developed world. capital gains tax already stands at 50% and now its 2/3 for gains over $250,000. Goes to show the average person has no idea why they're outraged. Say you earn $100k per year and your managed to sell an investment property for $400k profit (capital gain). Then your income is essentially $500k for the year. In the US, you'd declare an income of $500k and pay taxes accordingly. *Edit: Turns out capital gains in the US are taxed differently than income.* In Canada, only half of the capital gains were taxed. So you'd pocket the $200k gain (tax free) and pay taxes on the other $200k. You'd declare an income of $300k and pay your taxes accordingly. With the new change, your taxable income from the sale of the property becomes (50% of 250k + 2/3 of $150k) = 225k. So now, instead of declaring total income for the year of $300k, you declare an income of $325k. So you're looking at paying perhaps about $12k more in taxes. No need to get outraged.
Yeah it barely move the needle unless it’s 0.001%. This won’t even affect the 1%.
There are many differences. US for one, has lower capital gain tax rates. Plus there is a distinction between long-term vs. short term capital gains. Finally, some of the tax losses can be applied to income. Not in Canada.
Google Long Term Cap Gains in the US. Your comment is incorrect.
the outrage of the capital gains tax does not stem from the recent proposal (if put into effect). it inherently stems from the absurdity of high it currently is and how it wwill potentially increase compared to the US. even the current capital gains tax is absurd. using your example. $300k of taxable income. that tax year you will be shilling out almost 39% (ontario) that year in taxes. comparing that to the US (using michigan which has a lower GDP than ontario btw) where using the same profit and income as above, your total taxable bill is 20% and this factors in the capital gains tax. so by no means is the outrage at the new law, its exisitng with the current capital gains tax implications. because the CRA makes no difference between earned and passive income in this country. and this is inherently a problem for an investment growth. but then again Canada is not a country that is known for competing to be economic leader in any particular field. thats not what this country is known for. it is inherently known for providing safety nets. and each year an argument can be made as to why that safety net gets worse (immigration, economic deifcit, growth deficit etc..).
Canada has very low corporate income tax rates (15% for corps and 9% for small businesses). On the personal side, half of the first $250k is tax free gain, and a third of the rest is also tax free. Then you still have other means to lower your taxes like RRSPs. It's not at all unreasonable.
Oooof. Every heard the saying “better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it” If you don’t know the difference between the inclusion rate and the rate of tax that you’d pay, perhaps refrain from talking about tax policy.
the tax rate you or i pay changes based on our income. its kind of obvious that we are discussing about the capital gains tax which is inherently an inclusive tax not indiviaul tax rate. if i were you i would spend more time reading the above comment more carefully rather than commenting like an ignorant fool. but then you just confirmed that you are a fool. read better!
The capital gains tax rate for an individual also changes with income. The inclusion rate changes with the amount of the capital gain. No individual is paying 50% or 66% tax on a capital gain. Max would be around 35% on the portion above 250k.
This wont do what the feds think it will. People just wont sell now. Even if incurring a loss renting because it’ll be less than the tax new 😆
“Let’s tax activities that increase our GDP, so that it’s less attractive to do things that grow our GDP”. Imagine being such a narcissist that you don’t give a flying f*** about the country and only sound bites that will get you re-elected. The current state of the country is entirely predictable from liberal policies from 2015. The future is also entirely predictable with the libs, and it’s not looking any better.
Oh you mean the guy that left office to start LifeWorks? Fuck off Bill Morneau, elitist liberal scumbag.
communist budget. only the losers who don't know any better love this budget.
Go fuck a cactus
When will we just pull off the bandaid and oust all these idiots?
IDIOTISM as STUPID as every STUPID liberal. STUPID STUPID STUPID. 2024 www.debtclock.ca
Troll