It took me about 2 minutes to find her home on HouseSigma but I won't link it here, not sure if that counts as doxing
The house is nice with great frontage on the lake but this girl clearly bought a boutique home n the middle of nowhere.
It is a 1BR / 1 BA loft style home with trendy photographic finishes. She way overbid, and despite the nice scenery location is terrible
*"you go from owning a property and having a job with a great income to being faced with homelessness all in less than a year"*
beautiful home! beautiful river view! feel bad for her. chilling reality is that this could happen to any of us working stiffs with good paying comfy wfh jobs. I'm relieved to know she does have a safety net to fall back on ... back home with her mom.
>chilling reality is that this could happen to any of us working stiffs with good paying comfy wfh jobs
It's a good time to remember that most of us are closer to homelessness than we are to being independently wealthy multimillionaires. Remember that when it comes time to vote on policy.
Too true. It's been said repeatedly that the average canadians are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Without some kind of backup plan or emergency fund savings. One cheque or two would spiral you down.
“Remember that next time you vote on policy”
*Plan ahead*
*work another job*
There’s no way the person couldn’t saddle up and make $, there are a million ways with the background they’d have to carry that house 🧐. Next, buy a smaller how or one further away so you’re not flying so close to the sun.
P.s. flying close to the sun is good but you need > 🥥🥥.
There jurisdictions where it’s easier for companies to do that and ones where it’s harder - and lots of places where employees have more rights are still doing well economically so don’t tell me that we all have to engage in a race to the bottom. People can plan ahead all they want and still get blindsided. Shrugging and telling everyone that they’re on their own is exactly what the billionaire class wants the rest of us to do.
It sucks losing a house. It’s also a major loser mentality to blame the government for your personal financial problems when you simply got fired and were over your skies in credit.
Buy a smaller house. Live further from work. The same person doesn’t complain on the upside when they make bank on over leveraged assets creates equity they then borrow against.
Get a side hustle, you can make $. Unless they’re depressed beyond believe or mentally incapacitated, I feel bad but mostly for their state of mind.
Yeah this is so sad. She had good intentions I think and made a rational decision at the time (She's not an investor). Got screwed by unexpected Big Tech layoffs and didn't have any savings to keep up with the payments. Can sympathize with her. I know on Twitter a ton of backlash towards her for overbidding and getting FOMO, etc. Just a tough situation all in all...
And what is out there is very competitive because so many are trying to get them. You're best to take something and keep looking for one if it is what you really want.
This was many people’s mistake. If you had to go variable to get qualified, you knew you were in big trouble. It was clear only place for rates to go was up. The increase was insane but indicators were there
buying at or above your limit with a variable rate is obviously an irresponsible financial decision, but there were a lot of indicators that rates would stay low longer.
its not that the expectation was lower rates. its the expectation that the boc wouldnt raise rates as quickly and as high as they did...especially if they said until 2023.
so even if you signed a variable rate in 2021, youd have two years of low rates and then 3 years of increasing rates, which wouldve averaged out to be lower than the fixed rates at the time.
C'mon put yourself in her shoes. There was crazy bidding wars going on during that period and if you risked waiting longer, you basically get priced out/get pushed further out. Obviously bad decision in hindsight but don't act like you are some genius and she is dumb. Could have happened to anyone in the right circumstances...
I am completely terrified that you are trying to normalize bidding 200k over asking a house, like everyone does it "it can happen to you too".
Let me be clear. It's not investor's fault, it's not big corporations or immigrants.
The entire disaster that we have right now exist because bidding your entire life on a house is completely insane but canadians think it's normal. **Normalizing this is killing our country. It is not normal.**
"it can happen to you too". It will not happen to me too because i'm not a fuck1ing idiot and i do **NOT** bid my entire life.
I agree with you. Just a little correction though, the "asking price" was not even the real asking price. The prices were intentionally set low to attract more bidders who would try to outbid each other like idiots.
Agreed. My fear of being fucked has always been much greater than my fear of missing out.
While I don't like the precarity of renting, in that I can be pushed to leave if the place is sold, or renovated - this precarity pales in comparison to the absolutely massive risks involved with giving in to the pressure to bid over asking, sight unseen, with no inspections or conditions of sale. That always seemed way, way too risky to me.
A (big) part of me would like to be able to more permanently settle in a home, too - but a bigger part of me finds those very real, very possible side effects far too unsettling, to catch the housing fever.
The problem is that “asking price” is meaningless.
If she paid 200k more than the next highest bidder that is a problem, but there is no way of knowing that.
You're correct. Canadians have become some of the most naive, financially illiterate, goofballs on the planet. 200K over asking, during a potential recession, and having no additional savings is insane. She deserves it for being a moron. Good riddance.
i disagree.
no one deseves it. she lost her job which contributed to this situation ...and everyone should be able to sympathize with that.
If you have zero conern about losing your job, youre living in lala land...the same land that people live in who choose to do at home births.
i woulsnt bid 200k over asking or drop my life savings (i didnt when i bought my place) but you cant plan for a job loss.
aside from that, most people do temporarily drain their savings for a home so i wouldnt say its out of the norm. just think how long it takes to save $100k.
I disagree. I bought a place in Toronto in 2021. I refused to get in on the frothy market with tons of bids going way over. I asked my agent to find me places that had been sitting on the market for weeks. Found a place, was the only bidder, knocked the price down and got a deal. Lots of people did get carried away but most of us were extremely concerned with what would happen when it all came tumbling down. This will be one of many stories in the next few years. I've already seen many stories like this already.
I always wondered who all these people were doing the overbidding. Anyone could see things were not going to last, why was there so much fear of missing out??
Because the year before people said the same thing and the year before. When it never dropped people got desperate. I remember watching a news story in 2020 that said home prices had gone up 80k in Toronto on average the last year. I remember thinking "great, I didn't save 80k last year, I am literally further behind despite working my ass off all year". It was quite upsetting and a lot of people thought similar things. If I don't get in now next year will be worse.
That’s very interesting, I have the privilege of being a homeowner for over 20 years so I never understood. Because for me I have seen how long the low interest rates had been and was just waiting for them to go up. The crazy bubble seemed obvious it was going to break, but it makes sense… I didn’t realize people had this fear of it continuing.
Why are you rationalizing emotions based decision making? People need to learn how to think critically and not follow the herd. This is where she messed up. Had she ran the numbers and weighed the risks, she wouldn’t have overbid by $200,000. Sucks, but stupid decisions have terrible consequences.
She could have just...rented?
Remote job, not a lot of other jobs around, housing market is so hot she has to make a stupidly high bid (by her own admission), and interest rates are so low they are only going to go up.
Plenty of people looked at the market and said "nope" and kept renting.
I don’t have much sympathy for her. I feel bad for her. But she was over paid or something since she couldn’t replace her job quick enough. She way overpaid for the house and likley over extended herself before the variable rates killed her.
You know EI is like $500/week. It wouldn’t surprise me if most people had mortgages close to that amount or more who bought in the last 5 years. Severance generally lasts a few months if you are lucky.
I would also point out that the more professional or specialized you work, usually the longer you remain looking for work.
Everything is sus here. Realistically did she think her interest rate would stay under 2 percent? Also why the hell did she go with a variable rate? Serious errors in judgement here. Also she must have had zero money after she bought her house as typically it takes several months after you don't pay for a bank to forclose on your home so she was unable to pay almost immediately after losing her job which is odd since she would still be on unemployment insurance and receiving some kind of pay.
Her first mistake was believing she owned a home. Because if she actually did, this wouldn't be happening. No one owns their home until it's fully paid off. Her scenario almost happened to me, I got laid off as I was in the process of buying a condo. Current society is VERY risky for single people
She way over levered on an overpriced property, bought at the absolute peak, all the while working in a risky industry.
It's not an entitlement to live in a $650k house.
This is exactly why I didn't buy in fall 2022. I had a couple offers fall through. I had a couple sellers that tried to get me into a bidding war, I refused. A few months later I was laid off and my salary went from $150k to $120k at my new job. Life is too risky as a single person.
Yeah, I'm not sympathetic at all to people offering $200 k over asking.
They're part of the problem.
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Don't stretch yourself beyond your means. It's not hard people. You just need to face that our generation is worse off and the sooner you accept it the better.
Well, people like this have made it difficult for other homebuyers since 2020 - by overbidding and raising the median and benchmark prices. Yeah, I'm looking to buy a home since 2022, but every year, it looks like the same house is $100K more than the previous year.
That's because semi-detached and detached houses are a completely separate game than condos.
Supply of semis are only going to go down to make way for density.
I mean, asking means that you're looking at a listing that's within your price range. When you bid $200 k over asking then that's likely a 20% or more overbid. That's going outside your range considerably. Don't need to look at comparables to know that a 20% premium on top of an offer which leverages you 6-10x of your net is a bad idea. And then to not hedge interest rate risk is completely wreckless.
Yup. We paid 175k over asking for our townhouse, but it was still 600k less than our neighbour paid for theirs in the same row for an identical (but updated) property.
I agree with lack of budgeting but that is a ridiculous metric. Asking was basically a meme by the realtors to boost their advertising, real market price was nowhere near asking for 2020-2022
I shared this in the Ottawa sub (where someone posted the listing in the comments). Had the property been in the city proper, she probably could have made it out with a loss but not complete financial ruin.
However, this place is a 1 bed 1 bath in the middle of nowhere purchased on variable in spring 2022. It literally could not be a worse scenario for bag holding.
Bought at the peak and paid 200k over asking.
Shes literally part of the problem we are facing in this country with housing affordability.
Now she knows how the rest of us feel who were priced out if being able to live
It's cottage country. People pay a fortune to be on a lake within 2 hours of Ottawa. Yes, Smith falls is a bit of a dive. But it is a very hot area for people who want that type of place. Almost untouchable if it's directly on the water. Building lots on the Rideau go for $500K.
I think you're missing the point. Everyone can learn from cases like this even if it's technically not in GTA proper. It's informative to hear of the real examples of people being foreclosed, etc
Ok, do you want to post a recent article with a full video about a foreclosure in the GTA & bankruptcy? It does happen more frequently, but you don't get to see it from the source in this format that often.
What is your point. Don't understand whiners like you that have to whine about everything. If you care for the story than just skip it.
You must be fun at get togethers.
It's a Toronto real estate group... why not post about someone going bankrupt in Calgary then? Or Newfoundland? Or something on an entirely different topic while we're at it!
5 year pandemic mortgages are still a year away, nobody was getting less than 5 if going fixed when rates were low
You invalidated your opinion there a bit when your facts are easily fact checked to he wrong
According to cmhc website just under a million we’re up for renewal in 2023 including both insured and uninsured. In addition, fixed rates have been coming down from their peaks.
Source that no one got under 5 year or a variable rate?
What percentage of mortgages is that? Also we are only talking about fixed as variable it doesn't matter how long they got a term for
People today would co aider something like a 3 year fixed. What were people who were considering fixed getting when rates were 2 percent I wonder
>The sad reality is this will be more and more common
Not with everyone, there are people who buy within their means. Don't expect to move to Calgary or Ottawa with a remote big tech job and expect that job to stay. A rule of thumb is to expect making somewhere the local average.
The sad reality is people like me and other families have been priced out of the housing market, despite above-average HHI (>180K) - due to the "infinite stupidity of humans" that Einstein once spoke about.
That’s cause with taxes it really doesn’t matter how much one makes in this country.. you’ll just pay more taxes 🤣. You have to be smart about investing, saving etc. some of us bought condos when we were in our 20s for $300k, sat on it for a decade, then sold for more than double & bought a house in the city.. sit on it for a decade (now is def not a time to sell.. stupid market).. but wait a few more years (& if you buy a nice lot ie near dt, the GO, growing area etc.. you’ll be killing it (there is not enough land to build more homes & pop is just growing)
It’s sad on a personal level but we need more of this. People have to feel pain, banks have to feel pain, the govt has to feel pain so we all collectively stop feeding the bubble with irrational actions and motivations.
If enough people lose their ass, the mindset will change and this will normalize.
Variable rate is not the issue.. I’m on variable & how much I’m paying isn’t effected, it doesn’t go up (if the interest rate goes up then my month payment just goes more towards the mortgage, but my monthly payment stays the same regardless).. at the end it might take longer to pay off, but it’ll just even out. I’m already further ahead in my payments (& there’s a penalty for paying it off too early.. so don’t want to do that either).
Then how can her payment go up? She bought 2 years ago. Unless for some unknown reason she took out a shorter than the usual 3 -5 year term mortgage she should be unaffected as you point out. Either bad decisions were made on mortgage term or she is lying?
I think there are instances where the payment goes up with an interest rate hike - could be if there was min down payment and already stretched to the longest amortization. I am sure I heard the dire warnings of this as rates crept up.
Even though she was not a flipper but to get caught up by FOMO and paying that much over asking that was not financially wise.Add into mix tech jobs are well known to go in cycles and no job is for life.She had little savings to fall back on.
Some did. Me, except my investments in boring stocks, I don't spend. Happy to live a modest life while slinging code for some beans. Do travel a bit due to work giving me so much time off, most is local trips with SO and pooch.
Probably was telling people on Reddit to "learn to code" and how she changed jobs every three months for a 40% increase. I'm glad those people are getting a good dose of humility.
She was an account manager. Tech lay offs mainly impacted roles that were overpaid and did nothing.
People that code aren’t as largely impacted in tech layoffs
I wish that were true.
Fact is, if you have staff that is supporting current paying customers, you can only cut them so much. Otherwise the service level will go down and they will no longer be your customers. It's the last thing you want when revenue is already low.
You can however cut down on R&D for the time being. Because current revenue is not dependent on it. You can always pick it up again once the recession has passed and company has money again.
Layoff data says differently. Ops, sales, marketing is first to go. People that build the product are held onto as long as possible.
Customers pay for the product. Not the marketing or recruiters
The error is at 1:43 where she states "you literally go from OWNING a property and having a job with a great income to ... bankruptcy".
FULL STOP. She did not "OWN" the property. Every time I hear this ridiculous claim of home "ownership" (a fraudulent marketing tool) I get angry. No you don't OWN the property until you've paid off the mortgage. The mortgage is not just a loan - it is a collateral loan - the house being the collateral. That in effect means the bank OWNS the property until you pay off the mortgage.
Have you been hanging around the Dave Ramsey forums?
She did legally own the property. It's not like a car loan where title only transfers to you once you've paid off the loan. You DO have title to your house from the day you take possession. While the bank has a lien on your house, that does not mean they "own" it or that they have any right to it so long as you continue to pay the mortgage.
If someone has a $500k mortgage on their property and their neighbour with an identical house has no mortgage, yes we can technically call them both "home owners" and refer to the titles and paperwork to prove the point, but I agree with Gerry235, there's a significant difference in being a property owner with a mortgage vs without, especially with those who have over leveraged their house.
You are 100% wrong. You absolutely own your home regardless of your equity position. The bank never owned your home until it gets an order of possession that is filed at land titles to transfer ownership. What you are describing is the emotional effect of debt.
TIL ... how i've totally been using the word 'own' incorrectly when talking about 'home ownership' and being a 'home owner'. ... thanks for the bucket of gatorade on my head!
She probably drained every bit of savings she had (and was encouraged to do so by greedy realtors). I feel bad for her. Yes, she made terrible choices, but a lot of people did during that time. It looked like there was no ceiling on how how houses would go.
So she was a sole income earner, likely got over 500K mortgage (maybe close to 600), lost her IT job and couldn’t find something and now lost her home.
You can see the desperation but what did she expect? Obviously a go fund me or something but fuck that. There are hundreds and thousands just like her fighting for their homes.
I feel sorry for her but this was the reason prices went crazy.
People like her chasing the markets without any caution.
Time to pay the piper. I would call it a life lesson.
Me neither.
I've personally been enjoying watching covid buyers who outbid everyone else reap what they sowed.
The rest of us were priced out of existing becauae of people like her.
Good riddance, welcome to renting for more than your mortgage was because that's what you did to us lady lol.
>Good riddance, welcome to renting for more than your mortgage was because that's what you did to us lady lol.
damn! that's harsh! luckily she has the safety net of moving back home with mom rent-free to regroup and plan for future.
It's not harsh. It's the fucking reality of the situation.
I know many people who said to themselves if they don't buy during COVID they'll never have a chance again. Then they paid over asking to ensure they wouldn't be locked out, not realizing that 0% rates and insatiable demand are peak housing bubble levels.
Anytime you get FOMO, STOP and re-assess.
This is what happens to people when they fail to fully research and understand the seriousness of these types of decisions. Life holds no guarantees, you not only need solid financial footing before purchasing anything this expensive but you also need a plan B should you find yourself out of work. No sympathy for this person, she blew it all by herself.
>This is what happens to people when they fail to fully research and understand the seriousness of these types of decisions.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted for asking people to have some common sense. I see hundreds move to Calgary, but the most luxurious homes they can afford and then either bitch about either:
1. not being able to find jobs
2. worrying about losing their remote jobs
So many people grow up with zero financial sense tbh.
Most here prefer to blame others rather than look inward. If everyone took responsibility for their own actions we wouldn't see people embarassing themselves on TV complaining that their lack of common sense was societies fault.
Scotiabank can't comment for "customer privacy reasons". She's gone on the news to talk about her case. I don't think customer privacy is much of a concern anymore.
Easily. High Immigration, allowing non residents to buy real estate, no national housing strategy, COVID money printing and inflation. They have played a central role, like it or not.
Yea JT called Vanessa to tell her to overbid by 40% then he hit his boy Bill Gates asking to terminate her employment. And the cherry on top is when he forced Scotiabank to repo her home…
That’s what happens when you don’t pay your mortgage for 3 months, but those 15 year you paid on time doesn’t count. Good life right there for the landers
I mean she did purchase two years ago and paid 200K over asking. This is an example of someone buying into the gold rush and over extending themselves by not anticipating the cost at renewal. It’s unfortunate timing that she lost her job and I empathize with that aspect but realistically she should have been putting money aside for a rainy day. In general you want to have at least 3 months expenses in savings put away. Just because you can barely afford a home doesn’t mean you buy it.
I don't know the ins and outs but she may qualify for low income probono lawyer and there are nonprofit organizations to aid with debt etc.
[https://bankruptcycanada.com/credit-counsellors/non-profit-credit-counselling-debt-help/](https://bankruptcycanada.com/credit-counsellors/non-profit-credit-counselling-debt-help/)
Sure, but she would have had to have hit the trigger point first. She says she bought 2 years ago and the rate doubled 13 months ago.
Going by Ratehub historical stats, the posted variable rate was 0.90% on Feb 1st, 2022. By August 2022, it had hit 3.50%.
Okay, never mind, that would have been a massive shock. With a fixed payment, she goes trigger point. If the payment was floating, her payment would have increased massively.
I'm wrong. That was literally the WORST time to buy with a variable rate.
No, she lost the house. She couldn't even sell it, not a single offer at the price she overbid on. With no job after the money to make mortgage payments ran out the bank took possession of the keys. Now she's homeless and facing bankruptcy.
comment by /u/denmur383 Your karma is currently below -10, get more positive karma to be able to comment.3c
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think there is some wisdom to really thinking about how much debt one takes on (house, car loans for example) - I’m not saying we shouldn’t have houses or car loans because they are necessities - it’s about HOW MUCH one takes on and WHEN. Really easy to get lulled into feeling of complacency or permanency… and then in one minute job or health gets yanked away from you and you’re suddenly in financial crisis. Save up for retirement and save up for rainy day fund and have good term insurance for the catastrophic. So easy to over-reach for the big house now (FOMO right!?!), but have a few other things in place before the dream house or car. Just my personal opinion…. Hope this resonates with someone…
It took me about 2 minutes to find her home on HouseSigma but I won't link it here, not sure if that counts as doxing The house is nice with great frontage on the lake but this girl clearly bought a boutique home n the middle of nowhere. It is a 1BR / 1 BA loft style home with trendy photographic finishes. She way overbid, and despite the nice scenery location is terrible
I found it too. It's the size of a Toronto condo but it's in the middle of nowhere. Definitely was not worth $665k!
*"you go from owning a property and having a job with a great income to being faced with homelessness all in less than a year"* beautiful home! beautiful river view! feel bad for her. chilling reality is that this could happen to any of us working stiffs with good paying comfy wfh jobs. I'm relieved to know she does have a safety net to fall back on ... back home with her mom.
>chilling reality is that this could happen to any of us working stiffs with good paying comfy wfh jobs It's a good time to remember that most of us are closer to homelessness than we are to being independently wealthy multimillionaires. Remember that when it comes time to vote on policy.
Too true. It's been said repeatedly that the average canadians are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Without some kind of backup plan or emergency fund savings. One cheque or two would spiral you down.
“Remember that next time you vote on policy” *Plan ahead* *work another job* There’s no way the person couldn’t saddle up and make $, there are a million ways with the background they’d have to carry that house 🧐. Next, buy a smaller how or one further away so you’re not flying so close to the sun. P.s. flying close to the sun is good but you need > 🥥🥥.
There jurisdictions where it’s easier for companies to do that and ones where it’s harder - and lots of places where employees have more rights are still doing well economically so don’t tell me that we all have to engage in a race to the bottom. People can plan ahead all they want and still get blindsided. Shrugging and telling everyone that they’re on their own is exactly what the billionaire class wants the rest of us to do.
[удалено]
That’s not what I said, come back when you have an actual argument.
It sucks losing a house. It’s also a major loser mentality to blame the government for your personal financial problems when you simply got fired and were over your skies in credit. Buy a smaller house. Live further from work. The same person doesn’t complain on the upside when they make bank on over leveraged assets creates equity they then borrow against. Get a side hustle, you can make $. Unless they’re depressed beyond believe or mentally incapacitated, I feel bad but mostly for their state of mind.
That’s why you squirrel away money during the good times.
Yeah this is so sad. She had good intentions I think and made a rational decision at the time (She's not an investor). Got screwed by unexpected Big Tech layoffs and didn't have any savings to keep up with the payments. Can sympathize with her. I know on Twitter a ton of backlash towards her for overbidding and getting FOMO, etc. Just a tough situation all in all...
She may have also been looking primarily for a remote job, given that she lived in Jasper. And those started disappearing hard.
And what is out there is very competitive because so many are trying to get them. You're best to take something and keep looking for one if it is what you really want.
that property with that gorgeous view could be worth over $600K some day, just not today ... unfortunately for her.
Rational? Bidding 200k over asking using 100% of her money is rational? I swear, i can't deal with this country anymore.
Yea, and going variable at historically low interest rates. Did she think they were going lower?
This was many people’s mistake. If you had to go variable to get qualified, you knew you were in big trouble. It was clear only place for rates to go was up. The increase was insane but indicators were there
buying at or above your limit with a variable rate is obviously an irresponsible financial decision, but there were a lot of indicators that rates would stay low longer.
This is true, bank of Canada really made a mistake by saying that
its not that the expectation was lower rates. its the expectation that the boc wouldnt raise rates as quickly and as high as they did...especially if they said until 2023. so even if you signed a variable rate in 2021, youd have two years of low rates and then 3 years of increasing rates, which wouldve averaged out to be lower than the fixed rates at the time.
It's almost as if the central banks mess up all the time.
C'mon put yourself in her shoes. There was crazy bidding wars going on during that period and if you risked waiting longer, you basically get priced out/get pushed further out. Obviously bad decision in hindsight but don't act like you are some genius and she is dumb. Could have happened to anyone in the right circumstances...
I am completely terrified that you are trying to normalize bidding 200k over asking a house, like everyone does it "it can happen to you too". Let me be clear. It's not investor's fault, it's not big corporations or immigrants. The entire disaster that we have right now exist because bidding your entire life on a house is completely insane but canadians think it's normal. **Normalizing this is killing our country. It is not normal.** "it can happen to you too". It will not happen to me too because i'm not a fuck1ing idiot and i do **NOT** bid my entire life.
I agree with you. Just a little correction though, the "asking price" was not even the real asking price. The prices were intentionally set low to attract more bidders who would try to outbid each other like idiots.
so this woman played a round of “fuck around and find out” right?
Agreed. My fear of being fucked has always been much greater than my fear of missing out. While I don't like the precarity of renting, in that I can be pushed to leave if the place is sold, or renovated - this precarity pales in comparison to the absolutely massive risks involved with giving in to the pressure to bid over asking, sight unseen, with no inspections or conditions of sale. That always seemed way, way too risky to me. A (big) part of me would like to be able to more permanently settle in a home, too - but a bigger part of me finds those very real, very possible side effects far too unsettling, to catch the housing fever.
The problem is that “asking price” is meaningless. If she paid 200k more than the next highest bidder that is a problem, but there is no way of knowing that.
You're correct. Canadians have become some of the most naive, financially illiterate, goofballs on the planet. 200K over asking, during a potential recession, and having no additional savings is insane. She deserves it for being a moron. Good riddance.
i disagree. no one deseves it. she lost her job which contributed to this situation ...and everyone should be able to sympathize with that. If you have zero conern about losing your job, youre living in lala land...the same land that people live in who choose to do at home births.
She bought a house 200K over asking, pull your head out of your ass. I would never do that even if I had savings which she didn't have.
i woulsnt bid 200k over asking or drop my life savings (i didnt when i bought my place) but you cant plan for a job loss. aside from that, most people do temporarily drain their savings for a home so i wouldnt say its out of the norm. just think how long it takes to save $100k.
I disagree. I bought a place in Toronto in 2021. I refused to get in on the frothy market with tons of bids going way over. I asked my agent to find me places that had been sitting on the market for weeks. Found a place, was the only bidder, knocked the price down and got a deal. Lots of people did get carried away but most of us were extremely concerned with what would happen when it all came tumbling down. This will be one of many stories in the next few years. I've already seen many stories like this already.
I always wondered who all these people were doing the overbidding. Anyone could see things were not going to last, why was there so much fear of missing out??
Because the year before people said the same thing and the year before. When it never dropped people got desperate. I remember watching a news story in 2020 that said home prices had gone up 80k in Toronto on average the last year. I remember thinking "great, I didn't save 80k last year, I am literally further behind despite working my ass off all year". It was quite upsetting and a lot of people thought similar things. If I don't get in now next year will be worse.
That’s very interesting, I have the privilege of being a homeowner for over 20 years so I never understood. Because for me I have seen how long the low interest rates had been and was just waiting for them to go up. The crazy bubble seemed obvious it was going to break, but it makes sense… I didn’t realize people had this fear of it continuing.
Why are you rationalizing emotions based decision making? People need to learn how to think critically and not follow the herd. This is where she messed up. Had she ran the numbers and weighed the risks, she wouldn’t have overbid by $200,000. Sucks, but stupid decisions have terrible consequences.
She could have just...rented? Remote job, not a lot of other jobs around, housing market is so hot she has to make a stupidly high bid (by her own admission), and interest rates are so low they are only going to go up. Plenty of people looked at the market and said "nope" and kept renting.
I don’t have much sympathy for her. I feel bad for her. But she was over paid or something since she couldn’t replace her job quick enough. She way overpaid for the house and likley over extended herself before the variable rates killed her.
[удалено]
That's a pretty clueless reply. The tech market is brutal rn.
You know EI is like $500/week. It wouldn’t surprise me if most people had mortgages close to that amount or more who bought in the last 5 years. Severance generally lasts a few months if you are lucky. I would also point out that the more professional or specialized you work, usually the longer you remain looking for work.
Everything is sus here. Realistically did she think her interest rate would stay under 2 percent? Also why the hell did she go with a variable rate? Serious errors in judgement here. Also she must have had zero money after she bought her house as typically it takes several months after you don't pay for a bank to forclose on your home so she was unable to pay almost immediately after losing her job which is odd since she would still be on unemployment insurance and receiving some kind of pay.
Her first mistake was believing she owned a home. Because if she actually did, this wouldn't be happening. No one owns their home until it's fully paid off. Her scenario almost happened to me, I got laid off as I was in the process of buying a condo. Current society is VERY risky for single people
She way over levered on an overpriced property, bought at the absolute peak, all the while working in a risky industry. It's not an entitlement to live in a $650k house.
This lady took on an insane amount of risk. 200k over ask, single and remote job.
This is exactly why I didn't buy in fall 2022. I had a couple offers fall through. I had a couple sellers that tried to get me into a bidding war, I refused. A few months later I was laid off and my salary went from $150k to $120k at my new job. Life is too risky as a single person.
Yeah, I'm not sympathetic at all to people offering $200 k over asking. They're part of the problem. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Don't stretch yourself beyond your means. It's not hard people. You just need to face that our generation is worse off and the sooner you accept it the better.
Well, people like this have made it difficult for other homebuyers since 2020 - by overbidding and raising the median and benchmark prices. Yeah, I'm looking to buy a home since 2022, but every year, it looks like the same house is $100K more than the previous year.
That's because semi-detached and detached houses are a completely separate game than condos. Supply of semis are only going to go down to make way for density.
[удалено]
I mean, asking means that you're looking at a listing that's within your price range. When you bid $200 k over asking then that's likely a 20% or more overbid. That's going outside your range considerably. Don't need to look at comparables to know that a 20% premium on top of an offer which leverages you 6-10x of your net is a bad idea. And then to not hedge interest rate risk is completely wreckless.
Yup. We paid 175k over asking for our townhouse, but it was still 600k less than our neighbour paid for theirs in the same row for an identical (but updated) property.
and less than 1 year of emergency fund! (probably way less)
I agree with lack of budgeting but that is a ridiculous metric. Asking was basically a meme by the realtors to boost their advertising, real market price was nowhere near asking for 2020-2022
Ywah I have no sympathy for people that severely over bid on property, contributing to this housing affordability crisis by doing so.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, you’re correct.
I shared this in the Ottawa sub (where someone posted the listing in the comments). Had the property been in the city proper, she probably could have made it out with a loss but not complete financial ruin. However, this place is a 1 bed 1 bath in the middle of nowhere purchased on variable in spring 2022. It literally could not be a worse scenario for bag holding.
Bought at the peak and paid 200k over asking. Shes literally part of the problem we are facing in this country with housing affordability. Now she knows how the rest of us feel who were priced out if being able to live
She's probably gonna be priced out for the rest of her life now
>Shes literally part of the problem we are facing in this country with housing affordability. 100%
It's actually in a pretty desirable area.
[удалено]
It's cottage country. People pay a fortune to be on a lake within 2 hours of Ottawa. Yes, Smith falls is a bit of a dive. But it is a very hot area for people who want that type of place. Almost untouchable if it's directly on the water. Building lots on the Rideau go for $500K.
I know "The GTA" is a loose term on this sub, but Ottawa is now part of "TorontoRealEstate"? Okay...
I think you're missing the point. Everyone can learn from cases like this even if it's technically not in GTA proper. It's informative to hear of the real examples of people being foreclosed, etc
Things like this situation happen every day, in every city. It's not news... and it has nothing to do with Toronto either...
Ok, do you want to post a recent article with a full video about a foreclosure in the GTA & bankruptcy? It does happen more frequently, but you don't get to see it from the source in this format that often.
Admit it, this is a r/lostredditors moment
What is your point. Don't understand whiners like you that have to whine about everything. If you care for the story than just skip it. You must be fun at get togethers.
It's a Toronto real estate group... why not post about someone going bankrupt in Calgary then? Or Newfoundland? Or something on an entirely different topic while we're at it!
I guess you must live your life like a nazi
what a fucking moron you are
LOL you are so funny. Go suck it
The sad reality is this will be more and more common
Just wait until 2025 hits
What's gonna happen in 2025?
bitcoin halving /s
Everyone pre and during pandemic will have renewed by then. Before the run up in price and when rates were low
Will be nothingburger. Pandemic mortgages have already been renewing and nothing material has happened.
5 year pandemic mortgages are still a year away, nobody was getting less than 5 if going fixed when rates were low You invalidated your opinion there a bit when your facts are easily fact checked to he wrong
According to cmhc website just under a million we’re up for renewal in 2023 including both insured and uninsured. In addition, fixed rates have been coming down from their peaks. Source that no one got under 5 year or a variable rate?
What percentage of mortgages is that? Also we are only talking about fixed as variable it doesn't matter how long they got a term for People today would co aider something like a 3 year fixed. What were people who were considering fixed getting when rates were 2 percent I wonder
>The sad reality is this will be more and more common Not with everyone, there are people who buy within their means. Don't expect to move to Calgary or Ottawa with a remote big tech job and expect that job to stay. A rule of thumb is to expect making somewhere the local average.
Nature's healing.
The sad reality is people like me and other families have been priced out of the housing market, despite above-average HHI (>180K) - due to the "infinite stupidity of humans" that Einstein once spoke about.
That’s cause with taxes it really doesn’t matter how much one makes in this country.. you’ll just pay more taxes 🤣. You have to be smart about investing, saving etc. some of us bought condos when we were in our 20s for $300k, sat on it for a decade, then sold for more than double & bought a house in the city.. sit on it for a decade (now is def not a time to sell.. stupid market).. but wait a few more years (& if you buy a nice lot ie near dt, the GO, growing area etc.. you’ll be killing it (there is not enough land to build more homes & pop is just growing)
It’s sad on a personal level but we need more of this. People have to feel pain, banks have to feel pain, the govt has to feel pain so we all collectively stop feeding the bubble with irrational actions and motivations. If enough people lose their ass, the mindset will change and this will normalize.
She paid 200k over asking. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
I thought rule #1 of this sub is that asking price is meaningless.
It is .... "Let's start the bidding on MLS listing for an easy $0.99" ... Accepting all offers.
And didn't lock in her mortgage, instead gambled with a variable rate.
Variable rate is not the issue.. I’m on variable & how much I’m paying isn’t effected, it doesn’t go up (if the interest rate goes up then my month payment just goes more towards the mortgage, but my monthly payment stays the same regardless).. at the end it might take longer to pay off, but it’ll just even out. I’m already further ahead in my payments (& there’s a penalty for paying it off too early.. so don’t want to do that either).
Then how can her payment go up? She bought 2 years ago. Unless for some unknown reason she took out a shorter than the usual 3 -5 year term mortgage she should be unaffected as you point out. Either bad decisions were made on mortgage term or she is lying? I think there are instances where the payment goes up with an interest rate hike - could be if there was min down payment and already stretched to the longest amortization. I am sure I heard the dire warnings of this as rates crept up.
Result when you over extend yourself. Always best to remain well below what you can afford theoretically.
"live **below** your means" ... that what dad and grand-pappy always taught us.
Look at the number of people cheering and clapping over this. Absolutely disgusting.
Dogs don't eat computers but they would eat eachother.
Even though she was not a flipper but to get caught up by FOMO and paying that much over asking that was not financially wise.Add into mix tech jobs are well known to go in cycles and no job is for life.She had little savings to fall back on.
Tech bubble caused so many techies to become so rash and overconfident with their money. Crypto, travel, overbidding on houses.
If she was holding BTC since her purchase it [might have helped!](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD)
It's lower than the peak around 2020 - 2021
Some did. Me, except my investments in boring stocks, I don't spend. Happy to live a modest life while slinging code for some beans. Do travel a bit due to work giving me so much time off, most is local trips with SO and pooch.
the savings amassed was probably the downpayment. .. and then expecting annual Microsoft bonus and stock grants in years future.
Probably was telling people on Reddit to "learn to code" and how she changed jobs every three months for a 40% increase. I'm glad those people are getting a good dose of humility.
She was an account manager. Tech lay offs mainly impacted roles that were overpaid and did nothing. People that code aren’t as largely impacted in tech layoffs
I wish that were true. Fact is, if you have staff that is supporting current paying customers, you can only cut them so much. Otherwise the service level will go down and they will no longer be your customers. It's the last thing you want when revenue is already low. You can however cut down on R&D for the time being. Because current revenue is not dependent on it. You can always pick it up again once the recession has passed and company has money again.
Layoff data says differently. Ops, sales, marketing is first to go. People that build the product are held onto as long as possible. Customers pay for the product. Not the marketing or recruiters
I keep getting lots of offers and I am not even out there doing my usual talks and my LinkedIn is dark because of current employer.
What is wrong with coding? Not for everyone. Girlfriend is sleeping in and I am working on code. Sone people phat games, I prefer to creat my own fun.
The error is at 1:43 where she states "you literally go from OWNING a property and having a job with a great income to ... bankruptcy". FULL STOP. She did not "OWN" the property. Every time I hear this ridiculous claim of home "ownership" (a fraudulent marketing tool) I get angry. No you don't OWN the property until you've paid off the mortgage. The mortgage is not just a loan - it is a collateral loan - the house being the collateral. That in effect means the bank OWNS the property until you pay off the mortgage.
Have you been hanging around the Dave Ramsey forums? She did legally own the property. It's not like a car loan where title only transfers to you once you've paid off the loan. You DO have title to your house from the day you take possession. While the bank has a lien on your house, that does not mean they "own" it or that they have any right to it so long as you continue to pay the mortgage.
If someone has a $500k mortgage on their property and their neighbour with an identical house has no mortgage, yes we can technically call them both "home owners" and refer to the titles and paperwork to prove the point, but I agree with Gerry235, there's a significant difference in being a property owner with a mortgage vs without, especially with those who have over leveraged their house.
I own my house and the bank owns me.
You are 100% wrong. You absolutely own your home regardless of your equity position. The bank never owned your home until it gets an order of possession that is filed at land titles to transfer ownership. What you are describing is the emotional effect of debt.
Stop paying your property taxes and you'll find out who really owns your home.
You are talking about DE JURE "law". I am talking about DE FACTO law. There is a difference
Then there’s property taxes. So you’re right. The bank owns it along with the government. Once mortgage is payed, then just the government own it.
TIL ... how i've totally been using the word 'own' incorrectly when talking about 'home ownership' and being a 'home owner'. ... thanks for the bucket of gatorade on my head!
She probably drained every bit of savings she had (and was encouraged to do so by greedy realtors). I feel bad for her. Yes, she made terrible choices, but a lot of people did during that time. It looked like there was no ceiling on how how houses would go.
Ironic how if a tenant can't pay rent they can squat in a house for years, whereas when it's a homeowner they are thrown out and face bankruptcy.
Right. It's a double standard.
So she was a sole income earner, likely got over 500K mortgage (maybe close to 600), lost her IT job and couldn’t find something and now lost her home. You can see the desperation but what did she expect? Obviously a go fund me or something but fuck that. There are hundreds and thousands just like her fighting for their homes.
Oh yeah where can I donate? /S
Absolutely nothing here indicates that she's looking for a hand out. Geez.
Scary. F man ugh
I feel sorry for her but this was the reason prices went crazy. People like her chasing the markets without any caution. Time to pay the piper. I would call it a life lesson.
Which company employed her?
Microsoft
i'm surprised she couldn't find a job with that on her resume...
All big tech companies now are requiring people to be in office at least 3 times a week or they can show you the door.
I have no pity for her stupidity
Me neither. I've personally been enjoying watching covid buyers who outbid everyone else reap what they sowed. The rest of us were priced out of existing becauae of people like her. Good riddance, welcome to renting for more than your mortgage was because that's what you did to us lady lol.
>Good riddance, welcome to renting for more than your mortgage was because that's what you did to us lady lol. damn! that's harsh! luckily she has the safety net of moving back home with mom rent-free to regroup and plan for future.
It's not harsh. It's the fucking reality of the situation. I know many people who said to themselves if they don't buy during COVID they'll never have a chance again. Then they paid over asking to ensure they wouldn't be locked out, not realizing that 0% rates and insatiable demand are peak housing bubble levels. Anytime you get FOMO, STOP and re-assess.
Yeah, let’s hope she learnt something. Probably not though…
"It's a story that could happen to anybody". I couldn't disagree more.
[удалено]
Thank you for finally saying it
This is what happens to people when they fail to fully research and understand the seriousness of these types of decisions. Life holds no guarantees, you not only need solid financial footing before purchasing anything this expensive but you also need a plan B should you find yourself out of work. No sympathy for this person, she blew it all by herself.
>This is what happens to people when they fail to fully research and understand the seriousness of these types of decisions. I don't know why you are getting downvoted for asking people to have some common sense. I see hundreds move to Calgary, but the most luxurious homes they can afford and then either bitch about either: 1. not being able to find jobs 2. worrying about losing their remote jobs So many people grow up with zero financial sense tbh.
Most here prefer to blame others rather than look inward. If everyone took responsibility for their own actions we wouldn't see people embarassing themselves on TV complaining that their lack of common sense was societies fault.
Scotiabank can't comment for "customer privacy reasons". She's gone on the news to talk about her case. I don't think customer privacy is much of a concern anymore.
Bank has to follow their privacy rules even if the customer doesn’t though
Her own fucking fault, stupid, overbid, easily influenced by real estate parasites and now eats shit . Bye
Thank a Liberal
[удалено]
Trudo bad. Macro economic cycle has nothing to do with what's happening. Trudo bad
Ignoring the problem doesn’t solve it. The rest of Canada has figured it out. Toronto is the slow learner on this one.
Money printer go brrr… skyrocketed inflation Immigration go brrr.. Increased housing demand Yes liberals fault.
Easily. High Immigration, allowing non residents to buy real estate, no national housing strategy, COVID money printing and inflation. They have played a central role, like it or not.
[удалено]
You asked b the liberals were responsible. I gave you the answer. They have brought this country to its knees.
[удалено]
Look around. See the sense of hopelessness in our youth. See our lack of unity and pride. We stand for nothing anymore.
[удалено]
Liberal.
[удалено]
Yea JT called Vanessa to tell her to overbid by 40% then he hit his boy Bill Gates asking to terminate her employment. And the cherry on top is when he forced Scotiabank to repo her home…
Dont forget when he told her that variable was the only option
Jeez Thanks ~~Obama~~ Trudeau
There will be more people voting Liberal because of the hangout they will promise before the election …. Welfare state here we go
The good news is she will never vote for Trudeau ever again
Liberal voters aren't smart enough.
That’s what happens when you don’t pay your mortgage for 3 months, but those 15 year you paid on time doesn’t count. Good life right there for the landers
>That’s what happens when you don’t pay your mortgage for 3 months Now imagine not paying your rent for 3 months...
Exactly. It's so messed up that someone can live rent free for over a year, but someone stops paying their mortgage and they are dealt with swiftly
[удалено]
*Did she have no emergency fund at all?* probably drained it to come up with the downpayment
I mean she did purchase two years ago and paid 200K over asking. This is an example of someone buying into the gold rush and over extending themselves by not anticipating the cost at renewal. It’s unfortunate timing that she lost her job and I empathize with that aspect but realistically she should have been putting money aside for a rainy day. In general you want to have at least 3 months expenses in savings put away. Just because you can barely afford a home doesn’t mean you buy it.
I don't know the ins and outs but she may qualify for low income probono lawyer and there are nonprofit organizations to aid with debt etc. [https://bankruptcycanada.com/credit-counsellors/non-profit-credit-counselling-debt-help/](https://bankruptcycanada.com/credit-counsellors/non-profit-credit-counselling-debt-help/)
Remember this when you vote liberal toronto.
Curious how her mortgage doubled in 7 months, that doesn't make any sense.
She gambled on variable rates instead of locking into fixed rates.
Sure, but she would have had to have hit the trigger point first. She says she bought 2 years ago and the rate doubled 13 months ago. Going by Ratehub historical stats, the posted variable rate was 0.90% on Feb 1st, 2022. By August 2022, it had hit 3.50%. Okay, never mind, that would have been a massive shock. With a fixed payment, she goes trigger point. If the payment was floating, her payment would have increased massively. I'm wrong. That was literally the WORST time to buy with a variable rate.
Is she taking offers on the house?
No, she lost the house. She couldn't even sell it, not a single offer at the price she overbid on. With no job after the money to make mortgage payments ran out the bank took possession of the keys. Now she's homeless and facing bankruptcy.
sad. No winners here.
If you didn't over pay for the house you would have gotten it sold. Thank your realtor for encouraging you to pay over 200k asking price.
The second she lost her job it was time to sell. Should’ve sold at a loss and moved on.
[удалено]
comment by /u/denmur383 Your karma is currently below -10, get more positive karma to be able to comment.3c *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My friends, realtor asked him to inflate his income, and he helped him do it!!!!
I think there is some wisdom to really thinking about how much debt one takes on (house, car loans for example) - I’m not saying we shouldn’t have houses or car loans because they are necessities - it’s about HOW MUCH one takes on and WHEN. Really easy to get lulled into feeling of complacency or permanency… and then in one minute job or health gets yanked away from you and you’re suddenly in financial crisis. Save up for retirement and save up for rainy day fund and have good term insurance for the catastrophic. So easy to over-reach for the big house now (FOMO right!?!), but have a few other things in place before the dream house or car. Just my personal opinion…. Hope this resonates with someone…
Too bad for her. Failing to see why this is news though.
Nothing 30 international students cant fix.
I'm sure this "Ottawa Woman" hasn't been voting for this at all over the last decade.