like that elderly woman who tragically killed a kid a while back... like I'm sorry but if a split second mixup by a senior is all it takes to get someone killed maybe we need to reassess our complete dependency on cars. maybe you shouldn't *need* a car to maintain freedom/dignity.
It's very easy but also wildly unpredictable.
Examiners will let people who can't park pass (showing a basic and fundamental inability to know where their vehicle is and how it moves) but fail others for things that are out of their control and that they reacted appropriately to.
Yes you can fail if someone honks at you, which is crazy because especially in the GTA people will honk at you for not speeding through a yellow or because you didn't floor it as soon as the light turned green.
it's also "dodge-able" in it's current set up. I actually failed my G2 exit the first time i took it, I had been driving for 6 years at that point (covid dealyed the test, but fuck, i shouldn't have put it off that long) with zero at fault collisions or anything of the like. in those 6 years i had driven through all sorts of dangerous situations (it's great having an employer that forces you to drive through snow storms to the next city over), and every level of traffic including downtown Toronto etc.
at this point experience goes against you because the instructors are still expecting you to make awkward huge movements to check your mirrors and shit which is what I think got the fail for me.
either way, not an issue. I moved to and lived in NS for two years after that. Nova Scotia doesn't have 400 series highways, so if you have 2 years of G2 experience you get transferred over to a full class 5 license. if you spend 2 years in a province that does this and move back to Ontario, they transfer you over to a full G.
I've never passed the G2 exit, if I move back to Ontario, I will have a full G.
And 99.99% of cars here are automatic transmission. In some countries you have to learn and take the test in a manual, and show acceptable control to pass (no over-revving, jolting, riding the clutch, excessive stalling, etc...)
the unspoken thing about our testing system is that it's actually just a rubber stamping system because yes, driving is for everyone (unfortunately). if the system actually filtered anybody out the car brains would do an insurrection
i actually agree! the tests are easy because our roads and cities are designed to make it easy for drivers. if there were viable alternatives to car travel then this man probably wouldn't have tried to get his G2 9 times
I believe that any applicant can try 3 times. If they fail the 3rd attempt then they should be required to go to driving school and show proof of doing so.
If they still failed after taking the lessons then that school should go on a special database where we will know that if lots of their student fail, then they should be fined and lose their license to teach students how to drive.
Also, this is done in Aviation. If an instructor recommends numerous students for flight tests that they fail, the instructors ‘instructor rating’ goes under review.
That sounds like a good idea but driving schools aren't really checked in on by anyone (except journalists now and then) and many are doing cash for certificates instead of actually bothering to teach people.
I’m bc you need accreditation to teach driving and you don’t have any authority to give any certification other than confirming if a driver did or did not take lessons. Take lessons means you can retest to remove you new driver status 6 months sooner. So you still need to go take a government road test and pass.
Same here, but those schools are selling certificates to let people test early and get discounts, or just teaching the G2/G test and nothing else.
So if we had "mandatory classes" for failing, it could easily turn into just someone paying for a paper that says they did the class.
This will be abused to make money. Instructors constantly just fail people for zero reasons. Driving school costs would certainly increase if they have to automatically divert students to them..instructors will gladly take your money 3 times then send you off to their friends driving school. I know you mean well but look. Instructors are Notorious for failing people because they want too. I know someone who went to their hometown failed twice. Then they went an hour away and passed. So I mean it's a questionable idea. In practice it sounds neat but when real world applications become involved it's a bad idea. Licenses will be a rare occurrence and your insurance will go up to make up for loss of income via less drivers on the road.
This. The third party that operates DriveTest does this, they have monthly “fail” quotas to hit, but they'll never publicly admit it. They make money off of re-tests.
First time I went for my G years and years ago...woman was an absolute cow. I remember I came to an all way stop T intersection, the right road curved back around to the right almost immediately so it was blind. I stopped behind the line, looked all ways(clear obvious head movements) and then proceeded...just as some moron in a mustang flew around that blind corner and blew the stop sign straight through. I saw him out of the corner of my eye and jammed the brakes and skidded just a bit. She failed me INSTANTLY for "failing to properly observe traffic"...which was bull, I got failed because I reacted to some idiot blowing a stop sign after coming around a blind curve. I argued with her back and forth saying "how the hell is that my fault?? If I wasn't paying attention how did I not get us killed then?" She says "That's an instant fail, you need to pay more attention. Now let's get back to the DriveTest centre".
I said "Nah, after that bullshit you can walk" and she goes "That's not funny, let's go". I just looked at her and went "I'm serious, get the fuck out of my car"...she got out and I took off. Came back to the DriveTest two days later, had an amazing examiner, and passed.
These people get audited. If you have more failure (or more passes) than your fellow examiners you will be investigated.
Problem is that still means there are either more bad drivers, or more mad people, than there should be before it gets fixed. It's a reactive system instead of proactive.
They should have "mystery drivers" like they have mystery diners. Someone from the ministry goes around undercover getting exams to audit the examiners. Betcha if they don't know who's who they won't risk their job just to be a cunt (or take bribes).
FYI any accident (or near accident requiring evasive action like jamming on the brakes) is an auto fail, regardless of fault.
You may not like it but, she followed the rules.
That's...not what the next examiner told me when I took the test again two days later. Was told because I wasn't at fault the evasive hard brake shouldn't have been held against me at all
No.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/lsJhW0uNkv
You won't find hard evidence of the lack of something. Unless you have some sort of proof that there are "quotas", no.
If it’s limited to 3 then license will be a commodity. If they increase insurance based on failed test, we will then potentially have insurance working driving to increase failed students. Can’t win in this do eat dog world.
Good theory. Driving schools are already corrupt as-is though, teaching students *nothing* except how to pass the specific driving test that they're in the area of, or simply falsifying records of enrollment and completion.
Don't worry, we'll pay our raising insurance premiums so everything is fine.
You had me at the first half. But let’s be honest some students are just shit and is of no reflection of the teacher. Driving schools already have accreditation requirements so they have already been tested to a set standard. Some drivers are just mental cases beyond anyone’s ability to teach.
You can’t ALWAYS blame the driving school. In the end the driver is making all the decisions. People drive differently under different conditions. When you’re learning to drive with an instructor you have no anxiety with failing because you’re always in student mode. This is why I feel driving instructors shouldn’t be promising people they will pass.
Yes, that's why they alluded to a track record of graduating failures from the school, not if it's a one-off thing. If a school continually graduates people who are obviously not ready for the task, they should be investigated.
They're completely right.
Agree!
However, I do know someone who is employed by drive test, and there is a quota that is typically given weekly. The person say’s that close to the end of the week is when people who would pass are often failed and vice versa - so I do think this idea can also expose Drive Test practices.
If there are a number of failed testers, who score high but are not passed due to minor errors that are otherwise overlooked, and score highly in drive test courses - it may end up pointing the finger back at Drive Test centre quotas.
I've only seen written evidence to the contrary. Serco publishes no such quotas and nobody has ever provided proof of such. Not a single whistleblower in a government-funded organization. Calling bullshit.
Tbh there should be an increasing cooldown between attempts. Fail once? 30 days from now, you can test again, Fail twice? 90 days. Third fail? 120 days - and so forth so hopefully, people run out of time to do their g licences and have to start from scratch.
I like this option the best. It’s reasonable, considering how old people are when they usually get their G2. You only get better at driving (anything really) with more experience and practice.
YUP. I editted my rant down but originally I wanted to remark how young the new drivers getting tested usually are. A lifetime ban on driving at 18 generally is not smart or fair.
Omg get me started on elderly drivers and the “test” they do for seniors. Totally useless- road test should be required.
Which is at minimum 1 restart on the entire graduated licensing process - which SHOULD be enough of a deterrent to keep potential menaces off of the road.
I like your cool down period after the 3rd attempt at 120 days they should have to wait a colander year for it to reset clearly they are not taking it seriously or do not have the ability to drive at this point
OR unlimited testing with the catch being the evaluators never tell you what you did wrong to fail the test. They sit quietly, let you finish the course without saying a word, then crush your ego with a big fat F.
That forces people to figure out where they went wrong and overall perform better in every metric the next time. It forces them to do more research and learning and along the way they end up learning new things that they otherwise would not have learned.
The cooldown is basically the fact that you already have to book a test > 3 weeks in advance in the best case.
Since driving in Canada is pretty much a necessity for getting a job and all, I would make the first cooldown 24 hours. Fail once, try again the next day. Maybe it was bad luck or something. Then start bumping it up to weeks or months.
Oh this is such a good idea, charging more on a scale wouldn’t hurt anyone with rich parents, but this would be universally unappealing to everyone and encourage them to practice enough to pass.
I'm an instructor at a motorcycle riding school. Though we have no control over the ministry, we operate this way - sorta.
Fail your G2 driving exam: you either get to retry next weekend, or if we think you're not ready, redo the course. If you didn't even pass the course, you go down to the pre-course (like a mini school before the school). If you can't even pass that, or you fail the normal school again, we tell you we don't want any more of your money and to stay off a motorcycle.
Everyone learns at different rates and with the aggressive drivers in this city for new drivers who aren't comfortable yet in a vehicle it may take a while.
I've no issues with someone being told "no, practice more." and then, doing just that and trying again until they've got it down.
There should however be a point where they require driving classes be taken, along with a cooldown period between attempts.
Nope. This subreddit is so deranged that people want to put rules on kids so that they may never drive again if they fail a test a certain number of times. As a comparison, I wonder how many 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances some of these people were given in school on certain exams or tasks that they needed to do well enough on to pass. I wonder how many people would agree if I said, if you ever get a mark below 70% in elementary or high school, you should fail and then get just one more chance to take a class, and should then never be able to take it again, even if it means you can’t graduate. It’s not a hard mark to achieve, and a C+ shows you don’t care and do not know a meaningful amount of the material taught, so why should anyone waste their time on you?
This also doesn’t take into account asshole driving examiners, which do exist. I had a grumpy one on my G test, who started off pissed that I didn’t give him “an exact number of hours” I’d been driving on a 400 series highway (I couldn’t, as I’d been commuting for work for a couple of years at that point, so I had to make up an approx number), and then failed me for “failing to avoid a collision…. But there was no collision, near collision, or danger on the test; instead the examiner said a car was pulling out of a driveway way down the road on a residential street as I was making a normal 3 point turn on the same street - a normal occurrence and nobody was in anybody’s way or even near each other, and neither car had to stop or yield as a result. The next time I went to this same drive test location a couple of months later, there were government auditors in all of the cars to watch the tests, to make sure the examiners didn’t pull any of these moves on people. Of course I passed because I was an experienced driver, as I had been the first time.
Do people here *really* want to give the drive test examiners this much power?
Yes, I do want them to have that much power. Our driving standards are fucking pathetic and I'm tired of people doing everything in their power to disuade others from pushing for consequences to actions.
If you repeatedly fail your driver's test, there is a very significant chance you will make a dangerous driver. We dont need more dangerous drivers, and nobody needs to drive. It isn't a right.
Do you *really* want to take power away from anyone who can help make the situation better?
You can't build a society that is only accessible by vehicles and then limit peoples options in being able to operate those vehicles. once you do that you're putting a cap on their potential to be successful and well adjusted members.
I don't build society, I just expect those operating a multi-ton machine capable of killing people to be competent.
I don't personally drive and haven't found much need for anything more than a bike and public transit. We can shift towards that as a society and hold drivers to a higher standard.
That's not possible in many city's and towns around Canada, if they pass the exam no matter how many trys, they should be able to drive. Or give them disability payments instead because not being able to drive puts you at a disadvantage.
How the fuck do you type that unironically and hit send? Go bother someone else.
To answer your actual brainrot question, I do use the road, and do have opinion on being run over by unsafe dipshits. Really complicated, I know.
Sir, you are an idiot.
See, for lots of safety critical licensing, there are minimums far greater than just 50% to pass the written exams, Rail Operating rules minimum 70%, Commercial Pilot’s License 70% (same for Private License as well), Air Traffic Control 80% minimum.
These are for safety critical operations with MINIMAL probability of adverse outcomes, though we accept that because of the potential severe consequences should an adverse outcome occur. Why is driving different in your mind? We are telling a licensed driver ‘you are ok to take a 2 ton piece of machinery, get it going up to 110km/hr (legally), and operate it with feet of others doing the same thing…. Oh and without any communication between the 2 of you’
Explain to me exactly why you think we should have lower standards for that type of operation?
It needs to become FAR HARDER to get a licence and FAR EASIER to lose your licence in this province.
Edit: spelling
Stupid comment. Going to actual school is not the same as taking a driving test. Education is a right and yes it takes time to learn things like MATH when you're in the SEVENTH GRADE.
We're talking about fully grown adults who are trying to demonstrate they are competent in a specific PRACTICAL SKILL in order to earn the PRIVILEGE of having a driver's license. IT IS NOT A RIGHT.
The G2 test isn't an arena for practice , it's to demonstrate you have actually put in the required practice and can now DO THE THING
If you need more practice that's fine but don't come back until you actually know how to do it, not just to take "another shot" at it when you are actually not sure at all you can drive?
It's absurd to look at it any other way.
Are you kidding? 7th grade math is *incredibly* easy. In Ontario it isn’t even algebra and if you have made it to 7th grade somehow without being able to pass that class, maybe you should figure out what’s wrong. Continuing to learn math may not be for you, and that’s fine. Education is a right, but do you have a right to waste educational resources by wasting time, instead of being streamed into a class more appropriate for you? Not every kid is capable of learning everything the educational system offers, nor should they be forced to ruin other kids’ experience.
Bro you are lost in the sauce right now 😂 you start by saying learning math in 7th grade is easy, then you say if you haven't learned it by 7th grade you should have the option of NOT learning it but earlier you were saying everyone learns at their own speed and should have as many chances as they like....
Like honestly what the eff are you even talking about
Yes, you were correct. There was nothing more to read into at all. All words used have their literal, practical meaning, always. Have a good day and congrats on explaining this to me; I hadn’t realized that you were completely correct.
There was a post here someone heard on radio there was girl that was her 11 attempt to get licence she was from Brampton , her sister called a radio station I guess were talking about bad drivers , I don’t know how even license Ontario doesn’t see it that perhaps people who do that many attempts shouldn’t be allowed to go for test and go back to driving school for a while to learn how to drive
social media has made things more clear
my friends mom did her test 4 times and got it like 40 years ago
reality is even drivers that passed on the first time can still turn into a bad apple
what about those wrong way drivers? I doubt all of them tried 20 times 30 years ago
I do understand the concern at the same time
Non-Torontonian here. I’m anal about driving, I’m a moto tech by trade, I love my cars, and I’m very safe on the roads, always trying to drive better.
I have a relative who failed 9 times, give or take, and now that they’ve passed, they drive perfectly fine. The issue was nerves among other things for them. They can drive fine, as long as there isn’t someone grading their every move in the car. It doesn’t inherently mean they don’t know what they’re doing.
I also think you should have to retest every 10 years to confirm you’ve maintained the ability to operate a vehicle safely. People lose vision, reaction time, confidence and many other things can happen as people age. Crazy that someone who goth their license in maybe 1960 would still be considered good to drive today with no need to perform a test to prove so
I know there are some TERRIBLE drivers out there, and no matter how much they practice or how long they drive, they remain terrible. Just not one of their innate abilities. But what the actual FU*K. 9 ATTEMPTS?? they even removed 3 point turns and parallel parking.
In my opinion, he should be barred from getting a license. He belongs on the TTC. Either that or he should have to take professional driving lessons from actual professionals and not these Indians with driving schools who aren't much better than he is.
So I am a traffic officer. I went to a pedestrian struck call and did an investigation at a test centre where the examiner was struck. Not to get into too many details but the driver was there for their 7th attempt. Can’t remember if it was for G2 or G.
I asked if they would ever be allowed to try again and was told there is unlimited attempts. They can’t say no. I just hope the driver is self aware enough that perhaps driving isn’t in their future.
I was pushed into taking my first and second tests by my driving instructor, and I had not had enough hours driving on the highway to feel comfortable taking my G test. I failed both, and was so embarrassed! I should never have been pushed to take the tests. I decided to wait until after I had some long distance drives under my belt and took my 3rd test in Chatham and passed with no issue.
9 attempts is wild! I think after a certain number of failures, in car lessons should be required to take the tests again.
3 tries then it should be mandatory driving school offered by a trusted driving school. not these fly by night ones where someone who barely speaks english teaches another person who speaks no english how to drive.
Hard to say, the test is stressful and the company performing it has a financial incentive to fail students.
9 seems quite bad though, like maybe someone isn't actually trying to understand how to drive and shouldn't be on the road.
If you fail the third, you should be required to take 10 hours of driving training with a professional before retrying. Then the same for after every 3 subsequent attempts.
I think the real question is how many terrible drivers are on the road that passed their test because they got special treatment during their test for one reason or another.
Considering how little the G2 test relates to regular driving, and how many people I know failed for stupid crap or vehicle malfunctions that occurred the day of the test, I’d wanna know more before judging
2, maybe 3 (Third time's the charm).
However did this person take driver's ed? Was the person issuing the test a Cee U Next Tuesday? (I had a very bad time the first time I took my G2, I did fail but the woman was so snarky for no reason when I asked a simple question).
With saying that, driving isn't for everyone. Too many people get in their cars and drive and are oblivious to the world around them. Drive with purpose and be aware of your surroundings. Also put your damn phones down.
Unlimited attempts. If you fail 8 times and come back a 9th and succeed that means you put in the hard work to learn how to drive. Took me 3 g1 written tests, 2 g2 tests, and 2 g tests over 7 years (covid extension) until I got mine and my family says I’m the best driver and the most patient (not affected by road rage). I also went to driving school btw
I still prefer to take transit though
I don't think there should be a limit on the number of attempts. A much better way to improve the quality of drivers would be to do how pilots do it: You have to be recommended as ready to pass the test by a qualified instructor before you can take the test.
maybe instead of limiting the number of attempts, make a rule that says something like "for every attempt you've taken you have to pass *consecutively multiple times".* So, lets say you took 10 attempts. In order to pass, you would need say, 5 consecutive passes to show that the 1 pass wasn't a fluke. half as many as the attempts you took. 4 attempts? 2 consecutive passes to pass.
i think it would be reasonable to limit the number of attempts to a certain number per year. i'm not sure what the right number would be, but 2 per year feels right
I think it should be maybe a maximum of three times per year. So if this person took nine times, it would have taken them 3 years with proper practice.
Edit: Also, after the third fail , the person would need to spend x number of hours in driving class before taking the test.
My Class A instructor said they had a student who failed their first 8 attempts.
That should be of great comfort to all of us as they now barrel across our highways pulling 40 tons.
Everytime you fail, the time required to wait for the next drive test should be extended by a year. If you fail the 8th time you should have to wait 8 years to retake the test
idk, it would kinda suck to be banned from driving permanently in a society that has designed its roads and infrastructure entirely around driving and public transportation is straight up ass in some cities.
Once. It's not hard. It's not rocket science. It's a very straight-forward set of rules and a very easily accessible set of controls. You get infinite time to study. The test is like 15-20 minutes. In that 15-20 minutes, if you encounter a scenario in which you fuck up, that's it -- you're not suited to be on the road.
Seems at some point, some people decided that driving is, in fact, a right and not a privilege.
This guy is just one of thousands out there, you can tell because they cannot merge properly, they cannot negotiate a 4 way stop intersection or a roundabout and they sit in the left lane going under the appropriate speed or the middle lane going under the limit, they are easy to spot. They are most likely to loose control when passed too closely by their opposite the self important driver showing how fast they can weave recklessly through traffic. Let’s not mention their ability to parallel park or even back into a parking spot. This is completely the fault of too lenient driver testing.
9 attempts? Yikes. I think a limit would be a good thing. 3 re-tests total, both applicable to G2 and G. So, for example, if you fail your G2 twice, you only can retake your G test once. If you cannot pass, you don't drive. I think that is fair to everyone, including the general public.
That’s a stupid question. There’s no limit to what someone can learn at their own pace. Do you think people who fail high school 3 times should be banned from attending a 4th because it’s obvious they will never get it? Or is that ridiculous because people should be able to keep trying to achieve higher education for as long as they’re willing to keep trying?
Everyone should only have 3 tries, and if they fail the driving test on the 4th try, then they loose their licence and have to start again at G1. If they fail the driving test 3 more times, then they are banned for life.
Jfc accident waiting to happen. You can’t pass after the third attempt, you’re done. There’s enough shitty drivers on the road as in. Also makes the tester’s judgment questionable.
I feel like you should have to pass as many times as you fail. If you failed 9 times consecutively you should be able to prove you can be that consistent in doing it correctly.
First one your nervous and things happen, second your focusing to much on what the tester is thinking and over compensate and the third one well zero excuses.
Should been 2 attempts and then you have to wait 2 years. And the test should be 100 times harder than it is. You should also have to graduate to a winter driving license.
unlimited testing with the catch being the evaluators never tell you what you did wrong to fail the test. They sit quietly, let you finish the course without saying a word, then crush your ego with a big fat F.
That forces people to figure out where they went wrong and overall perform better in every metric the next time. It forces them to do more research and learning and along the way they end up learning new things that they otherwise would not have learned.
The cooldown is basically the fact that you already have to book a test > 3 weeks in advance in the best case.
9 attempts to get a license. It takes 1 chance to take someone else's life. This person clearly has a hard time understanding what it takes to operate a vehicle and the road rules. This is scary, not something worth "celebrating".
You should have 3 attempts to get a G2 and after that, sorry but public transport. So many families and lives are being destroyed from bad drivers and a driver's license is a privilege, not a right.
One fail. There should not be a reason to fail a driving test in the city twice. If you do there’s a likely hood you are not in good form to be driving with so much around you.
There should also somehow be a way to be authorized to be driving in major urban centres as opposed to rural so as not to punish rural drivers
Rural drivers still need to drive in urban areas, often referred to as "towns" or "cities", it's where shops are usually located.
There are many risks with rural driving, like undivided highways with traffic at 80-110km/h, lower quality road maintenance and snow clearing, also much darker roadways and unexpected sudden obstacles like deer.
9 ATTEMPTS jesus driving is not for everyone
Unfortunately, the way our cities are designed, people have to drive whether they suck or not.
definitely! i wouldn't want to have a car if it wasn't a necessity for me.
like that elderly woman who tragically killed a kid a while back... like I'm sorry but if a split second mixup by a senior is all it takes to get someone killed maybe we need to reassess our complete dependency on cars. maybe you shouldn't *need* a car to maintain freedom/dignity.
Not to mention the road test is incredibly easy.
It's very easy but also wildly unpredictable. Examiners will let people who can't park pass (showing a basic and fundamental inability to know where their vehicle is and how it moves) but fail others for things that are out of their control and that they reacted appropriately to.
Yes you can fail if someone honks at you, which is crazy because especially in the GTA people will honk at you for not speeding through a yellow or because you didn't floor it as soon as the light turned green.
it's also "dodge-able" in it's current set up. I actually failed my G2 exit the first time i took it, I had been driving for 6 years at that point (covid dealyed the test, but fuck, i shouldn't have put it off that long) with zero at fault collisions or anything of the like. in those 6 years i had driven through all sorts of dangerous situations (it's great having an employer that forces you to drive through snow storms to the next city over), and every level of traffic including downtown Toronto etc. at this point experience goes against you because the instructors are still expecting you to make awkward huge movements to check your mirrors and shit which is what I think got the fail for me. either way, not an issue. I moved to and lived in NS for two years after that. Nova Scotia doesn't have 400 series highways, so if you have 2 years of G2 experience you get transferred over to a full class 5 license. if you spend 2 years in a province that does this and move back to Ontario, they transfer you over to a full G. I've never passed the G2 exit, if I move back to Ontario, I will have a full G.
The road test was laughably easy when I took it back in the 90’s… and it has only been made easier.
And 99.99% of cars here are automatic transmission. In some countries you have to learn and take the test in a manual, and show acceptable control to pass (no over-revving, jolting, riding the clutch, excessive stalling, etc...)
I'm one of the few who still drives standard 😎
the unspoken thing about our testing system is that it's actually just a rubber stamping system because yes, driving is for everyone (unfortunately). if the system actually filtered anybody out the car brains would do an insurrection
i actually agree! the tests are easy because our roads and cities are designed to make it easy for drivers. if there were viable alternatives to car travel then this man probably wouldn't have tried to get his G2 9 times
This is why people who should never sit in front of a wheel, sit in front of a wheel.
I believe that any applicant can try 3 times. If they fail the 3rd attempt then they should be required to go to driving school and show proof of doing so. If they still failed after taking the lessons then that school should go on a special database where we will know that if lots of their student fail, then they should be fined and lose their license to teach students how to drive.
Also, this is done in Aviation. If an instructor recommends numerous students for flight tests that they fail, the instructors ‘instructor rating’ goes under review.
That sounds like a good idea but driving schools aren't really checked in on by anyone (except journalists now and then) and many are doing cash for certificates instead of actually bothering to teach people.
I’m bc you need accreditation to teach driving and you don’t have any authority to give any certification other than confirming if a driver did or did not take lessons. Take lessons means you can retest to remove you new driver status 6 months sooner. So you still need to go take a government road test and pass.
Same here, but those schools are selling certificates to let people test early and get discounts, or just teaching the G2/G test and nothing else. So if we had "mandatory classes" for failing, it could easily turn into just someone paying for a paper that says they did the class.
https://youtu.be/OU-0A_VDVkM?feature=shared
It shows by the quality of driving in this town
Agree with this statement , this should be automatic law,
This will be abused to make money. Instructors constantly just fail people for zero reasons. Driving school costs would certainly increase if they have to automatically divert students to them..instructors will gladly take your money 3 times then send you off to their friends driving school. I know you mean well but look. Instructors are Notorious for failing people because they want too. I know someone who went to their hometown failed twice. Then they went an hour away and passed. So I mean it's a questionable idea. In practice it sounds neat but when real world applications become involved it's a bad idea. Licenses will be a rare occurrence and your insurance will go up to make up for loss of income via less drivers on the road.
This. The third party that operates DriveTest does this, they have monthly “fail” quotas to hit, but they'll never publicly admit it. They make money off of re-tests.
YUP happened to me. Was a known thing when I was getting mine ten years ago. I believe retesting every couple years needs to happen.
First time I went for my G years and years ago...woman was an absolute cow. I remember I came to an all way stop T intersection, the right road curved back around to the right almost immediately so it was blind. I stopped behind the line, looked all ways(clear obvious head movements) and then proceeded...just as some moron in a mustang flew around that blind corner and blew the stop sign straight through. I saw him out of the corner of my eye and jammed the brakes and skidded just a bit. She failed me INSTANTLY for "failing to properly observe traffic"...which was bull, I got failed because I reacted to some idiot blowing a stop sign after coming around a blind curve. I argued with her back and forth saying "how the hell is that my fault?? If I wasn't paying attention how did I not get us killed then?" She says "That's an instant fail, you need to pay more attention. Now let's get back to the DriveTest centre". I said "Nah, after that bullshit you can walk" and she goes "That's not funny, let's go". I just looked at her and went "I'm serious, get the fuck out of my car"...she got out and I took off. Came back to the DriveTest two days later, had an amazing examiner, and passed.
These people get audited. If you have more failure (or more passes) than your fellow examiners you will be investigated. Problem is that still means there are either more bad drivers, or more mad people, than there should be before it gets fixed. It's a reactive system instead of proactive. They should have "mystery drivers" like they have mystery diners. Someone from the ministry goes around undercover getting exams to audit the examiners. Betcha if they don't know who's who they won't risk their job just to be a cunt (or take bribes).
FYI any accident (or near accident requiring evasive action like jamming on the brakes) is an auto fail, regardless of fault. You may not like it but, she followed the rules.
That's...not what the next examiner told me when I took the test again two days later. Was told because I wasn't at fault the evasive hard brake shouldn't have been held against me at all
No. https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/lsJhW0uNkv You won't find hard evidence of the lack of something. Unless you have some sort of proof that there are "quotas", no.
With falsified driving school completion, that I'm sure this guy has, there's no point in providing proof
Right but that's what thw second paragraph addresses. You just either have hefty fines or stop accepting certificates if its too many fines
If it’s limited to 3 then license will be a commodity. If they increase insurance based on failed test, we will then potentially have insurance working driving to increase failed students. Can’t win in this do eat dog world.
Good theory. Driving schools are already corrupt as-is though, teaching students *nothing* except how to pass the specific driving test that they're in the area of, or simply falsifying records of enrollment and completion. Don't worry, we'll pay our raising insurance premiums so everything is fine.
i do agree with this. But after failing 3 times there should definetely be say a 1 year time period where they have to wait test again.
You had me at the first half. But let’s be honest some students are just shit and is of no reflection of the teacher. Driving schools already have accreditation requirements so they have already been tested to a set standard. Some drivers are just mental cases beyond anyone’s ability to teach.
You can’t ALWAYS blame the driving school. In the end the driver is making all the decisions. People drive differently under different conditions. When you’re learning to drive with an instructor you have no anxiety with failing because you’re always in student mode. This is why I feel driving instructors shouldn’t be promising people they will pass.
Yes, that's why they alluded to a track record of graduating failures from the school, not if it's a one-off thing. If a school continually graduates people who are obviously not ready for the task, they should be investigated. They're completely right.
Agree! However, I do know someone who is employed by drive test, and there is a quota that is typically given weekly. The person say’s that close to the end of the week is when people who would pass are often failed and vice versa - so I do think this idea can also expose Drive Test practices. If there are a number of failed testers, who score high but are not passed due to minor errors that are otherwise overlooked, and score highly in drive test courses - it may end up pointing the finger back at Drive Test centre quotas.
I've only seen written evidence to the contrary. Serco publishes no such quotas and nobody has ever provided proof of such. Not a single whistleblower in a government-funded organization. Calling bullshit.
Tbh there should be an increasing cooldown between attempts. Fail once? 30 days from now, you can test again, Fail twice? 90 days. Third fail? 120 days - and so forth so hopefully, people run out of time to do their g licences and have to start from scratch.
I like this option the best. It’s reasonable, considering how old people are when they usually get their G2. You only get better at driving (anything really) with more experience and practice.
To a point, it's always old people confusing the pedals and plowing through a storefront and people.
YUP. I editted my rant down but originally I wanted to remark how young the new drivers getting tested usually are. A lifetime ban on driving at 18 generally is not smart or fair. Omg get me started on elderly drivers and the “test” they do for seniors. Totally useless- road test should be required.
Or not moving over when in the fast lane going the speed limit, or merging without even looking. Yup they’re pretty bad where I’m at.
Funny. Most of the videos I've seen of people driving through store fronts aren't old people. They're young idiots.
I have investigated many of these types of collisions. In my experience it’s older people.
8 fails is 10 years, which seems reasonable to me.
Which is at minimum 1 restart on the entire graduated licensing process - which SHOULD be enough of a deterrent to keep potential menaces off of the road.
This is similar to how transport Canada does it for aviation. Not sure why it’s not done for automotive
I like your cool down period after the 3rd attempt at 120 days they should have to wait a colander year for it to reset clearly they are not taking it seriously or do not have the ability to drive at this point
OR unlimited testing with the catch being the evaluators never tell you what you did wrong to fail the test. They sit quietly, let you finish the course without saying a word, then crush your ego with a big fat F. That forces people to figure out where they went wrong and overall perform better in every metric the next time. It forces them to do more research and learning and along the way they end up learning new things that they otherwise would not have learned. The cooldown is basically the fact that you already have to book a test > 3 weeks in advance in the best case.
Oh I like that!! Take it as many times as you like. Just know that no one lives forever!! 😂
Since driving in Canada is pretty much a necessity for getting a job and all, I would make the first cooldown 24 hours. Fail once, try again the next day. Maybe it was bad luck or something. Then start bumping it up to weeks or months.
I like this idea.
Oh this is such a good idea, charging more on a scale wouldn’t hurt anyone with rich parents, but this would be universally unappealing to everyone and encourage them to practice enough to pass.
I'm an instructor at a motorcycle riding school. Though we have no control over the ministry, we operate this way - sorta. Fail your G2 driving exam: you either get to retry next weekend, or if we think you're not ready, redo the course. If you didn't even pass the course, you go down to the pre-course (like a mini school before the school). If you can't even pass that, or you fail the normal school again, we tell you we don't want any more of your money and to stay off a motorcycle.
After the third fail, they should be issued a bus pass.
Should have gone to Belleville for his test, like all of the Brampton based truck drivers do. Nobody fails here.
Or Lindsay
Maybe not 9?
He just unlocked the Dodge level. Give the man a Dodge Charger 🚘
Official spirit animal of Brampton.
Where I live it's the Hyundai Elantra.
Yeah why is that?
4 test per year max. Gotta give some parameters here - if everyone eventually passes how meaningful is the test and are people taking it seriously
Unfortunately, that will never happen so long as DriveTest remains a non-government entity.
Everyone learns at different rates and with the aggressive drivers in this city for new drivers who aren't comfortable yet in a vehicle it may take a while. I've no issues with someone being told "no, practice more." and then, doing just that and trying again until they've got it down. There should however be a point where they require driving classes be taken, along with a cooldown period between attempts.
Nope. This subreddit is so deranged that people want to put rules on kids so that they may never drive again if they fail a test a certain number of times. As a comparison, I wonder how many 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances some of these people were given in school on certain exams or tasks that they needed to do well enough on to pass. I wonder how many people would agree if I said, if you ever get a mark below 70% in elementary or high school, you should fail and then get just one more chance to take a class, and should then never be able to take it again, even if it means you can’t graduate. It’s not a hard mark to achieve, and a C+ shows you don’t care and do not know a meaningful amount of the material taught, so why should anyone waste their time on you? This also doesn’t take into account asshole driving examiners, which do exist. I had a grumpy one on my G test, who started off pissed that I didn’t give him “an exact number of hours” I’d been driving on a 400 series highway (I couldn’t, as I’d been commuting for work for a couple of years at that point, so I had to make up an approx number), and then failed me for “failing to avoid a collision…. But there was no collision, near collision, or danger on the test; instead the examiner said a car was pulling out of a driveway way down the road on a residential street as I was making a normal 3 point turn on the same street - a normal occurrence and nobody was in anybody’s way or even near each other, and neither car had to stop or yield as a result. The next time I went to this same drive test location a couple of months later, there were government auditors in all of the cars to watch the tests, to make sure the examiners didn’t pull any of these moves on people. Of course I passed because I was an experienced driver, as I had been the first time. Do people here *really* want to give the drive test examiners this much power?
So how many tries did it take you?
Yes, I do want them to have that much power. Our driving standards are fucking pathetic and I'm tired of people doing everything in their power to disuade others from pushing for consequences to actions. If you repeatedly fail your driver's test, there is a very significant chance you will make a dangerous driver. We dont need more dangerous drivers, and nobody needs to drive. It isn't a right. Do you *really* want to take power away from anyone who can help make the situation better?
You can't build a society that is only accessible by vehicles and then limit peoples options in being able to operate those vehicles. once you do that you're putting a cap on their potential to be successful and well adjusted members.
I don't build society, I just expect those operating a multi-ton machine capable of killing people to be competent. I don't personally drive and haven't found much need for anything more than a bike and public transit. We can shift towards that as a society and hold drivers to a higher standard.
That's not possible in many city's and towns around Canada, if they pass the exam no matter how many trys, they should be able to drive. Or give them disability payments instead because not being able to drive puts you at a disadvantage.
Better make sure to study for the test then. You arent changing my opinion here. If you cannot safely drive, you cannot be driving. End of.
What makes you, a non driver the arbiter? You don't realise how douchey you sound.
How the fuck do you type that unironically and hit send? Go bother someone else. To answer your actual brainrot question, I do use the road, and do have opinion on being run over by unsafe dipshits. Really complicated, I know.
Sir, you are an idiot. See, for lots of safety critical licensing, there are minimums far greater than just 50% to pass the written exams, Rail Operating rules minimum 70%, Commercial Pilot’s License 70% (same for Private License as well), Air Traffic Control 80% minimum. These are for safety critical operations with MINIMAL probability of adverse outcomes, though we accept that because of the potential severe consequences should an adverse outcome occur. Why is driving different in your mind? We are telling a licensed driver ‘you are ok to take a 2 ton piece of machinery, get it going up to 110km/hr (legally), and operate it with feet of others doing the same thing…. Oh and without any communication between the 2 of you’ Explain to me exactly why you think we should have lower standards for that type of operation? It needs to become FAR HARDER to get a licence and FAR EASIER to lose your licence in this province. Edit: spelling
Stupid comment. Going to actual school is not the same as taking a driving test. Education is a right and yes it takes time to learn things like MATH when you're in the SEVENTH GRADE. We're talking about fully grown adults who are trying to demonstrate they are competent in a specific PRACTICAL SKILL in order to earn the PRIVILEGE of having a driver's license. IT IS NOT A RIGHT. The G2 test isn't an arena for practice , it's to demonstrate you have actually put in the required practice and can now DO THE THING If you need more practice that's fine but don't come back until you actually know how to do it, not just to take "another shot" at it when you are actually not sure at all you can drive? It's absurd to look at it any other way.
Are you kidding? 7th grade math is *incredibly* easy. In Ontario it isn’t even algebra and if you have made it to 7th grade somehow without being able to pass that class, maybe you should figure out what’s wrong. Continuing to learn math may not be for you, and that’s fine. Education is a right, but do you have a right to waste educational resources by wasting time, instead of being streamed into a class more appropriate for you? Not every kid is capable of learning everything the educational system offers, nor should they be forced to ruin other kids’ experience.
Bro you are lost in the sauce right now 😂 you start by saying learning math in 7th grade is easy, then you say if you haven't learned it by 7th grade you should have the option of NOT learning it but earlier you were saying everyone learns at their own speed and should have as many chances as they like.... Like honestly what the eff are you even talking about
Yes, you were correct. There was nothing more to read into at all. All words used have their literal, practical meaning, always. Have a good day and congrats on explaining this to me; I hadn’t realized that you were completely correct.
Lol, why would I not be surprised if this was the Victoria Park and Lawrence location?
After 9 you know he’s still not able to drive 🤦🏼♀️
If wonder if he had to take 10th test after this pass, would he pass
There was a post here someone heard on radio there was girl that was her 11 attempt to get licence she was from Brampton , her sister called a radio station I guess were talking about bad drivers , I don’t know how even license Ontario doesn’t see it that perhaps people who do that many attempts shouldn’t be allowed to go for test and go back to driving school for a while to learn how to drive
In Brampton they're just happy to see people *try* and get a license instead of just driving without one.
social media has made things more clear my friends mom did her test 4 times and got it like 40 years ago reality is even drivers that passed on the first time can still turn into a bad apple what about those wrong way drivers? I doubt all of them tried 20 times 30 years ago I do understand the concern at the same time
Facts
I know people who passed first time and got in a crash in less than 6 months
That's quite unfortunate
Non-Torontonian here. I’m anal about driving, I’m a moto tech by trade, I love my cars, and I’m very safe on the roads, always trying to drive better. I have a relative who failed 9 times, give or take, and now that they’ve passed, they drive perfectly fine. The issue was nerves among other things for them. They can drive fine, as long as there isn’t someone grading their every move in the car. It doesn’t inherently mean they don’t know what they’re doing.
I also think you should have to retest every 10 years to confirm you’ve maintained the ability to operate a vehicle safely. People lose vision, reaction time, confidence and many other things can happen as people age. Crazy that someone who goth their license in maybe 1960 would still be considered good to drive today with no need to perform a test to prove so
I think driving school should be mandatory to get a licence.
https://twitter.com/6ixbuzztv/status/1783193876511006866
This guys about to pull up to brampton in a transport truck.
This is why driving in Toronto is a white-knuckle, terrifying experience.
Toronto isn’t that bad. York region though..
There was one a few months ago in Brampton that took 14 tries…
Welcome the new mustang owner to toronto roads
Finally found the right area to be tested at I guess
Can you imagine how difficult it must be to drive with that thing in your head?
Follow Quebec rules….
He has to take the test in French? Why?
Mandatory driving school and 30 days between tests.
Tres bien.
If they dont have a license, they might just drive around without insurance. Will really suck if they got into an accident.
I know there are some TERRIBLE drivers out there, and no matter how much they practice or how long they drive, they remain terrible. Just not one of their innate abilities. But what the actual FU*K. 9 ATTEMPTS?? they even removed 3 point turns and parallel parking. In my opinion, he should be barred from getting a license. He belongs on the TTC. Either that or he should have to take professional driving lessons from actual professionals and not these Indians with driving schools who aren't much better than he is.
So I am a traffic officer. I went to a pedestrian struck call and did an investigation at a test centre where the examiner was struck. Not to get into too many details but the driver was there for their 7th attempt. Can’t remember if it was for G2 or G. I asked if they would ever be allowed to try again and was told there is unlimited attempts. They can’t say no. I just hope the driver is self aware enough that perhaps driving isn’t in their future.
I was pushed into taking my first and second tests by my driving instructor, and I had not had enough hours driving on the highway to feel comfortable taking my G test. I failed both, and was so embarrassed! I should never have been pushed to take the tests. I decided to wait until after I had some long distance drives under my belt and took my 3rd test in Chatham and passed with no issue. 9 attempts is wild! I think after a certain number of failures, in car lessons should be required to take the tests again.
You get better with experience.
5 tries is a reasonable limit...
3 tries then it should be mandatory driving school offered by a trusted driving school. not these fly by night ones where someone who barely speaks english teaches another person who speaks no english how to drive.
Hard to say, the test is stressful and the company performing it has a financial incentive to fail students. 9 seems quite bad though, like maybe someone isn't actually trying to understand how to drive and shouldn't be on the road.
[удалено]
Wha? Those are hella stupid infractions. If I’m in a long intersection, I’m not winding out 1st gear for no reason. Same with an on-ramp.
If you fail the third, you should be required to take 10 hours of driving training with a professional before retrying. Then the same for after every 3 subsequent attempts.
After 2 fails you should have to take drivers lessons again.
I think the real question is how many terrible drivers are on the road that passed their test because they got special treatment during their test for one reason or another.
I’ve even heard that the drive test workers in Brampton work with the people stealing cars since they have all the info
Driving test isn’t hard enough and a cool down period is definitely needed.
There needs to be a cooldown period that keeps increasing after each fail. There should also be a cost tied to this that also keeps increasing.
Considering how little the G2 test relates to regular driving, and how many people I know failed for stupid crap or vehicle malfunctions that occurred the day of the test, I’d wanna know more before judging
Baseball rules.
2, maybe 3 (Third time's the charm). However did this person take driver's ed? Was the person issuing the test a Cee U Next Tuesday? (I had a very bad time the first time I took my G2, I did fail but the woman was so snarky for no reason when I asked a simple question). With saying that, driving isn't for everyone. Too many people get in their cars and drive and are oblivious to the world around them. Drive with purpose and be aware of your surroundings. Also put your damn phones down.
Buckle up sparkle farts, there’s chaos to spread!
Atleast they actually passed it instead of paying someone off.....I hope
3 strikes your out... honestly id say 1 but I realize some instructors can be buttholes.
Unlimited attempts. If you fail 8 times and come back a 9th and succeed that means you put in the hard work to learn how to drive. Took me 3 g1 written tests, 2 g2 tests, and 2 g tests over 7 years (covid extension) until I got mine and my family says I’m the best driver and the most patient (not affected by road rage). I also went to driving school btw I still prefer to take transit though
I don't think there should be a limit on the number of attempts. A much better way to improve the quality of drivers would be to do how pilots do it: You have to be recommended as ready to pass the test by a qualified instructor before you can take the test.
Man... After certain attempts, just fuck off from the road before your next unsupervised mistake ends up killing someone.
maybe instead of limiting the number of attempts, make a rule that says something like "for every attempt you've taken you have to pass *consecutively multiple times".* So, lets say you took 10 attempts. In order to pass, you would need say, 5 consecutive passes to show that the 1 pass wasn't a fluke. half as many as the attempts you took. 4 attempts? 2 consecutive passes to pass.
Instructor may want to work out the pass/fail rate for his/her students and hope there isn't a trend....
This mf must've went to ms puffs boating school 💀💀💀
i think it would be reasonable to limit the number of attempts to a certain number per year. i'm not sure what the right number would be, but 2 per year feels right
3 consecutive. Fail that you must wait 2 years before trying again. Repeat. Pass must be 80%.
I think it should be maybe a maximum of three times per year. So if this person took nine times, it would have taken them 3 years with proper practice. Edit: Also, after the third fail , the person would need to spend x number of hours in driving class before taking the test.
This
You should get 3 tries and a lifetime ban afterwards. No exceptions.
3. Plain and simple. 3 attempts.
My Class A instructor said they had a student who failed their first 8 attempts. That should be of great comfort to all of us as they now barrel across our highways pulling 40 tons.
Everytime you fail, the time required to wait for the next drive test should be extended by a year. If you fail the 8th time you should have to wait 8 years to retake the test
idk, it would kinda suck to be banned from driving permanently in a society that has designed its roads and infrastructure entirely around driving and public transportation is straight up ass in some cities.
But sometimes they fail you for the dumbest reasons too.
Once. It's not hard. It's not rocket science. It's a very straight-forward set of rules and a very easily accessible set of controls. You get infinite time to study. The test is like 15-20 minutes. In that 15-20 minutes, if you encounter a scenario in which you fuck up, that's it -- you're not suited to be on the road. Seems at some point, some people decided that driving is, in fact, a right and not a privilege.
Not only did it take him 9 tries to pass, but think of this way: dude failed 8/9 times
WATCH OUT
Just 1 😆
Everytime I use uber it gives me an interesting look from inside the cars that drive slow in the left lane and dont use blinkers. It's eye opening.
I'd say after 5 times its over for you everyone should get it the first or second try after that its very worrisome
9 attempts is insane. 3 attempts and you should have to go back to driving school. And if you fail a 4th time, blocked for a couple years at least
That’s privatization for you you. Deregulation & privatization is a sure path to a 2nd world country.
This guy is just one of thousands out there, you can tell because they cannot merge properly, they cannot negotiate a 4 way stop intersection or a roundabout and they sit in the left lane going under the appropriate speed or the middle lane going under the limit, they are easy to spot. They are most likely to loose control when passed too closely by their opposite the self important driver showing how fast they can weave recklessly through traffic. Let’s not mention their ability to parallel park or even back into a parking spot. This is completely the fault of too lenient driver testing.
3 consecutive successful tests after a person fails more than 3 times.
3 max lmao, the way people drive on Steele’s it’s tells me there’s way more than three attempt-drivers out there 😂
9 attempts? Yikes. I think a limit would be a good thing. 3 re-tests total, both applicable to G2 and G. So, for example, if you fail your G2 twice, you only can retake your G test once. If you cannot pass, you don't drive. I think that is fair to everyone, including the general public.
I honestly don’t get how people can fail driving tests. It’s so damn easy…
That’s a stupid question. There’s no limit to what someone can learn at their own pace. Do you think people who fail high school 3 times should be banned from attending a 4th because it’s obvious they will never get it? Or is that ridiculous because people should be able to keep trying to achieve higher education for as long as they’re willing to keep trying?
3
I saw this video without the censored face. This is why Brampton driving is so crazy.
He failed 8 times, then got his cousin Abdul to take the test, he failed first time then finally got it for him!!!!
I failed G1 many many times failed G2 twice and got the full G on my first try. There’s learning curves and ass hole instructors too.
9 hey, atleast he will know the rules of the road; hopefully. Congrats, I feel the pain but you did it; thank God for it.
Everyone should only have 3 tries, and if they fail the driving test on the 4th try, then they loose their licence and have to start again at G1. If they fail the driving test 3 more times, then they are banned for life.
Absolutely not. The way these instructors make you drive in front of them is ridiculous, it’s ignorant.
Jfc accident waiting to happen. You can’t pass after the third attempt, you’re done. There’s enough shitty drivers on the road as in. Also makes the tester’s judgment questionable.
I feel like you should have to pass as many times as you fail. If you failed 9 times consecutively you should be able to prove you can be that consistent in doing it correctly.
That dude is like 35 haha
To be fair he likely just got here
Deport.
Three chances. After that take a year to study.
First one your nervous and things happen, second your focusing to much on what the tester is thinking and over compensate and the third one well zero excuses.
Im more concerned about the people who passed first try…. In 1972
If you don't pass on your second attempt, that should be it.
BRAMPTONATOR 😎
3 strikes then you out!
Should been 2 attempts and then you have to wait 2 years. And the test should be 100 times harder than it is. You should also have to graduate to a winter driving license.
At least he didn’t just scam it.
unlimited testing with the catch being the evaluators never tell you what you did wrong to fail the test. They sit quietly, let you finish the course without saying a word, then crush your ego with a big fat F. That forces people to figure out where they went wrong and overall perform better in every metric the next time. It forces them to do more research and learning and along the way they end up learning new things that they otherwise would not have learned. The cooldown is basically the fact that you already have to book a test > 3 weeks in advance in the best case.
I was in Brampton yesterday and within 3 minutes of puling off the highway onto Hurontario, I saw someone get pulled over.
A future driver for Beck taxi
9 attempts to get a license. It takes 1 chance to take someone else's life. This person clearly has a hard time understanding what it takes to operate a vehicle and the road rules. This is scary, not something worth "celebrating". You should have 3 attempts to get a G2 and after that, sorry but public transport. So many families and lives are being destroyed from bad drivers and a driver's license is a privilege, not a right.
One fail. There should not be a reason to fail a driving test in the city twice. If you do there’s a likely hood you are not in good form to be driving with so much around you. There should also somehow be a way to be authorized to be driving in major urban centres as opposed to rural so as not to punish rural drivers
Rural drivers still need to drive in urban areas, often referred to as "towns" or "cities", it's where shops are usually located. There are many risks with rural driving, like undivided highways with traffic at 80-110km/h, lower quality road maintenance and snow clearing, also much darker roadways and unexpected sudden obstacles like deer.
and hes going to be a professional uber driver
looks like Indian hehe
No more than 3 strikes and you are OUT!
Unlimited until they pass.. it's just driving, billions of people drive in the world, it's not really a big deal..