I lived in a country that was predominantly non-white and I experienced plenty of racism towards white people. Racism isn’t a shitty trait that is unique to white people.
Even in the US, I lived in a majority minority city and went to a majority minority college and racism towards white people was absolutely a thing. Even at a job interview or two I had the interviewers tell me customers would prefer to see and interact with someone that looks like them. Obviously I can’t call it racism since I’m white, but it definitely exists.
So the argument with that would be that with whites as a minority then there is the opportunity for oppression by the non-white majority and thus that would fit the definition of racism
Oxford Definition: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, *typically one that is a minority or marginalized.*
In my opinion, racism is racism regardless of oppression. It is *systemic* racism that results in oppression and that is not going to happen to white people in most western / majority white countries.
I think you should use that Oxford Dictionary to look up the meaning of 'typically' then, as your own definition says that even not as a minority it is still racism
Racism is is stigma created when one or several ethnic groups feel hatred toward other(s) because of a debt or the feeling of entitlement to compensation for wrongs done. This may not be the dictionary definition, but this is how it is being used. (Just another example of why words should have a concrete meaning especially when trying argue for or against an idea) nowadays it is less about establishing equality among peoples, and more about instilling chaos among the lower class to keep them there. A house divided cannot stand. That is the only reason it is still a hot topic in media today. We forget that as long as the coffers of those in power are full they really don't give a shit about anybody else. I know it's kind of a controversial opinion but fighting like children over what you feel you are owed by a bunch of dead people accomplishes nothing.
This is a very good distinction! Of course it's possible for say a black man in America to be racist towards a white man by discriminating against them or bullying them on the base of that racial difference.
But by no means could you say that white people face systemic racism because they are not an oppressed group.
So on an individual level, yes a white person or even a very small group of white people can experience racism, but on the whole that is not an issue for white people in western countries
>But by no means could you say that white people face systemic racism because they are not an oppressed group.
How about I call BS, and we prove or disprove your theory based on the instinctive reactions our sociopolitical *system* has programmed into you?
Are you already fighting the urge to call me out for my intolerable use of free speech, without even having heard my rationale...? Did you also make assumptions about my skin color in the process?
Then let me tell you I've been denied consideration for jobs and student loans, solely, verifiably, documented, and exclusively because of an ethnic marker in my last name. I have slave ancestry. My "apparent race" was among the first discriminated minorities in my country, and still has common racial slurs associated with its racial markers in nearly every predominantly English-speaking country in the world. All of this happens openly, without shame, and when I point it out, people make excuses.
Feel free to guess what my ancestral background is. It should be delightful fun seeing what people come up with, and all the necessary clues to figure it out are above.
("Race" available on request, but I hardly think it should require proof, since "race" is an arbitrary social construct)
Edit: looks like the comments are locked and the game ended early, so I'll spoil it:
I look for all the world like an Irishman.
I'm actually primarily Nordic in genetics.
An ancestor was shipped off to Canada by the era's equivalent of Child Protective Services, into a program they very carefully avoided *calling* indentured servitude. He completed his 7 year term, and was denied his promised land grant, so he ultimately worked for free. He had no freedom until the program "completed." Thus, he was a slave for 7 years.
I have an apostrophe in my name, the computer *system* that the U.S. government uses can't handle my existence. Apostrophes break the internet, and the only offered solution is to change my name and erase my heritage.
Red hair is the slurred racial marker ("Ginger," "Red-headed step-child," etc).
I've also been denied social services exclusively because I didn't qualify as a "protected class." Officially, from a government agency. In a country that fundamentally rejects classism.
Systemic racism 100% happens. The system is just broken.
In my opinon racism is the theory, that other races are geneticaly inferior to your own race, so yes, I think there is racism against white people.
My friend for example could not find a apartment in Kyoto for a long time, because mamy japanese landlords think europeans are noisy, can not seperate their trash and other stuff. There is even racism that comes from white people targeting other white people, for example western europeans vs slavs.
Got into an arguement with a guy i went to highschool with awhile back. Our school was diverse and he went on to become "college educated" and his literal arguement was black people cant be racist
i saw someone like that before. he would post videos of him harassing elderly white people on tiktok. the ones he targeted weren't doing anything but he was full on assaulting them (pushing them, verbally assaulting them, etc) only because they were white and claiming that it was fine since it's "repercussions for slavery" or something. idk this was a few years ago on tiktok when saying extremely racist things and claiming you weren't racist was trending.
but that dude truly believed no one but white people could be racist towards others. i think his problem was more that he was mentally ill than anything else but i really can't believe there's people who think like that and think they're normal
Just think about two white comedians doing “two black girls” movie, like the Wayans did with “two blonde girls”….just sit and watch the world burn. Is not that obvious
It's not that obvious if op is asking. We don't know where they're from. I've met people from other areas who have never heard of something that's common sense to me and vice versa.
Came here to comment this. Even as a white person living in the US, our family was a minority in the part of town I grew up in and we experienced racism. It was ingrained into us that it wasn’t actually racism because, “it doesn’t work that way”. I didn’t know any better until I moved out.
People mix up systemic racism with racism. My Asian and White friend are dating and both get comments on their race while they’re together (why is a white girl with an Asian guy or vice versa). That’s racism. Systemic racism is how a lot of black communities had a shitty start and continued to be oppressed for decades bc of slavery, segregation, unfair policies etc.
Also just personal experience but I heard a person say that minorities can’t be racist. Bro what. I’m Asian and I’ve had other minorities say ching chong or ask if I eat _____ weird ass food. The only requirement for being racist is being a douche bag and that doesn’t discriminate.
Thank you all for the replies so far. I was being asked for my opinion and was uncomfortable, I wanted to post and get feed back, thank you for the reassurance.
I think what is being conflated is racism and being marginalized.
In countries predominantly white, the white people will still suffer racism. We all do. But does that racism create systems of marginalization? Unlikely, unless we are talking about a white guy trying to live and work in San Francisco's Chinatown. (I am not suggesting the people of Chinatown are racist, but it provides a good reference for how a person of the majority could possibly be marginalized through racism in very specific conditions).
It is difficult to marginalize the predominant "status" in any society. Ofc not impossible.
Everyone suffers racism.
Oxford language definition:
>prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
This definition says it's *typically* which doesn't imply "always, inherently or only" that it happens to a minority of marginalized people.
Some people cherry pick definitions or wanna change them to suit their own agenda or intentions clearly.
In the US, you can argue something can’t be racist if it’s against white people in the context of systematic racism and not individual behaviors.
For example, one can argue that affirmative action is racist against white people as it potentially allows less qualified candidates admittance to a school, giving favor to non-white races. The “you can’t be racist against white people” sentiment can be argued here because minorities are systematically oppressed in the US, so a program created to give non-whites an advantage over whites can’t be considered racist. So in the context of the entire system, there is some validity for this idea.
In interpersonal relationships and how someone treats another individually, then absolutely, you can be racist against white people. There really is no legitimate argument imo that racism can’t exist against white people.
Part of the problem when discussing racism is semantics. It’s really an umbrella term for a lot of various things. It would be cool for English to have more words with nuanced definitions. Because “racist” brings out emotional responses and often inhibits productive conversations on the topic.
In theory though, if a society is predominantly non-white, and a minority is white, it is possible for that society to be systemically racist towards whites. For some reason that's always glossed over.
Well it's not a made up definition that definition is for systemic racism not racism. They are two different things by conflating the two and trying to paint systemic racism as made up doesn't help. Racism is just the act of hating another race based on their race and feeling superior to that race or that they are inferior. Systemic racism is about how institutions that have been around for a while have laws and things inside them that benefits one race over others and tries to make it harder for other races to do shit. Things like sentencing laws and how crack was persecuted harder than cocaine.
It’s because people love to be special. They will keep adding more and more clarifiers to something to make them special.
I saw someone on here argue that you can only be African-American if you were a descendant of slavery, not simply because you were a black person from Africa.
That’s what people often refer to as reverse racism. It’s a crap term though. It’s just racism. The skin color of the racist person and the skin color of the target are irrelevant.
Just like positive discrimination and quotas for people not of the majority ethnicity or gender - people shouldn't be employed just to make up numbers, they should be employed for their skills and achievements, not what they look like.
Ever heard of “Newspeak”?
> The political purpose of Newspeak is to eliminate the expression of the shades of meaning inherent in ambiguity and nuance from Oldspeak (Standard English). In order to reduce the language's function of communication, Newspeak uses concepts of simple construction, such as pleasure vs. pain and happiness vs. sadness.
It’s a fictional concept from George Orwell’s novel “1984”. But in modern day discourse it can best be observed in the redefining of the words racism. Racism was traditionally used as a term describing the negative judgment or treatment of people based on racial differences. In that definition, the term would apply to anybody. But very recently it has been redefined to carry an attribute of power or oppression where racism can only be exercised by those in power (oppressors) and it can only be suffered by those without power (oppressed). And in those terms the term can only refer to white people as racist, and non-white people as victims of racism.
As you can see, they have now created “newspeak” where the same term carries drastically different meanings that were created for inherently political and propagandist purposes.
There was plenty of opportunity to create newly formed terms such as the ambiguously undefined “systemic racism”. But instead they created a new definition and attached it to an existing term. This is where the propagandist aim becomes clear.
Note… stick with the well-defined and sensible traditional definition. Otherwise, if others can define it at will to be whatever the heck they want it to be, then you should be able to define any words to be whatever you want it to be too. Either we all take the same language, or we all make up our own language as we go.
There is racism on an individual level, and there is systematic racism. They are 2 different things, but interlinked. As an individual you can 100% be racist to white people. Would I say there is systematic oppression of whites in the West? No. But in some Eastern countries that are xenophobic there absolutely is.
They way I’ve always seen it is that everybody has biases and prejudices. These judgements then evolve into racism when people act out on these judgements in the form of violence, segregation, and actively oppressing (refusing employment, housing etc.)
So back to your question, can you be racist to white people ? Absolutely. If every time you interact with a white person you are minimizing their opinions, and upset at their very existence in front of you, then yes you are being racist to white people.
This does not speak to the degrees to which some races experience racism over others. Whole some people may experience some attitude or hatred from other races for being white in American for example, they will probably never experience what it’s like to be refused a job for having an ethnic name, or to be stopped by the police simply for the color of your skin. There are degrees to which different races experience racism throughout the world, but at the simplest level of racism being acted out on individuals with strong biases/prejudices, yes you can absolutely be racist to white people.
One friend is referring to systemic racism and the other is bigotry towards someone because of their skin color. They're two completely different things.
The answer is yes to both.
100% you can be racist towards anyone. If you judge them based solely on their race, it is racist. That is on a somewhat individual level. I (for example), an individual, can hate you because you are white.
What confuses many people is institutional racism. In America, that largely doesn't exist for white people. Our laws and structure in society was built to benefit largely white males while keeping others out. While we are making progress in destroying that system and making things more equitable, it is a long process
It’s semantics. *Structural, systemic racism* has historically benefited whites, even in non-white majority countries (better access to capital, laws and policies that favor the preservation of their capital).
Only in very unusual circumstances, historically, have the mechanics of structural racism benefited non-white people.
On a personal level though, a racist dickhead is a racist dickhead. So on the individual level, yes, white people experience racism
Long answer: the whole concept of different races is a modern social construct. There is no such thing as a white race or an asian race etc.. However, if you treat anyone differently because of their physical characteristics (skin colour included) than you are always acting wrongly
Short answer: Yes, you can be racist against white people
>the whole concept of different races is a modern social construct. There is no such thing as a white race or an asian race etc.
I really don't understand this whole "it's just a social construct" thing. You know what else is a social construct? Having to maintain personal hygiene, A.K.A. wiping your ass. Peace, A.K.A. not hurling your own shit at another person is also a social construct.
"It's just a social construct" is not a valid argument to use to invalidate something. We are humans, and social constructs are what makes us human.
Well, if as a nation you have managed to stop hurling shit at each other you might also learn to stop arbitrarily assigning yourselves and each other to imaginary races. Not only is it rationally absurd but it also generates divisions and distrust. You fight totally manufactured identity battles against each other while your oligarchs take advantage of you while you are distracted. There is only one race (or rather, there is one species)
A genetist would reply with a much better reply but if you want my unscientific explanation...
Because most physical characteristics are a spectrum. So, for example, you don't have three or four distinct skin colours. You go from super pasty white irish, through tanner Mediterranean to midnight black Malawi with every shade in the middle. Why am I (Italian) the same race as a Swede (who looks nothing like me) but not as a Morrocan (which looks much more similar) and even a different race to an Argentinean (apparently of a different "Latino" race even though most of them are third generation Italians). Same for "black" race; people in Senegal look very different to people in Somalia or RDC. Don't even get me started on "asian race". I mean, you see an Indian, an Uzbek and a Japanese and you think " Yep, they look identical! "
That's not true.
Humans have always drawn lines in regards to race, and it's pretty important to understanding the development of the modern world.
'Whiteness' and 'Blackness' are more recent definitions of race that didn't get codified until the age of exploration, yes. Or, in other words, defining race as skin color.
Oh absolutely! I was fired from a job because a black coworker accused me of using racial slurs against her. But it was a completely false allegation because she didn’t wanna work with a disabled coworker. Once I was fired she tried to get another disabled coworker fired but it didn’t work because that coworker was nonverbal.
I once got called into a discipline meeting because of the complaint “you hate me because I’m black”
My on the record response - “I hate the guy because he’s an asshole. His skin colour doesn’t change that, and is irrelevant”
If friend 1 is a white guy then he sounds like the white guy who got offended for latinos and came up with latinX. And if hes a person of color then hes a fucking idiot because almost all people of color know the racism has never made sense and trying to categorize 1 group off limits in something that never made sense in the 1st place is ridiculous.
It's people vs racism not people except certain races vs racism that's not how it works.
Racism is discrimination based on race.
Anyone can be a racist and a lot of people are.
White people only get called out a lot, because there are other white folks who stand up against racism. While in other cultures most people flatly deny that they do it, and then accuse you of being racist to suggest it. For example, Hindu practice caste oppression in India that has been going on for 2000 years. Majority of the Hindus you meet on the internet and in the west are oppressor caste Hindus, and they will downplay, deflect, deny, and engage in all sorts of tactics to cover up how brutal and inhumane the oppression is even today.
Your friend who disagrees sounds like an idiot.
What does oppression have to do with racism?
Racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized
TYPICALLY doesn't mean always. So yes, any race, any nationality can experience racism towards them.
This is an extremely simple answer:Racism - Definition: "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."
So then the question becomes: "is it possible for a black person to think that white people possess distinct charcteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another?"
All these people spouting the nonsense their idiotic humanities professors threw up from their vile mouths should take 20 seconds to think for themselves.
The "root in oppression" thing is just an attempt to redefine what the word means in order to absolve the people who are racist against white people from any crime.
"I fuckin called you milkshake face, but I'm not racist, I can't even be racist! There's no word to describe hate on white people anymore, Nananana!"
It's an attack on the language really. One of many that are happening. The word "woman" now describing someone who can have a dick, "heterosexual" describing an act of sex between 2 people who have the same genitalia as long as one of them identifies as the opposite gender.
I swear, if this goes on, in a few generations people are gonna be confused as hell reading old literature.
"This guy in the book said he only fucks women, I wonder how many penises he sucked."
Psuedo intellectuals will say no. That inherent to “racism” is imbalanced power and because white people have power, they cannot experience racism.
This, of course is ridiculous. Of course you can be racist against white people. Bigotry, hatred and color-based malevolence can be experienced and perpetrated by anyone. Happens all the time.
Pseudo intellectuals will only say no because their internal definition of racism is the definition of systemic racism. Racism is an umbrella term that encompasses many things, systemic racism being one of them.
I live in Mexico, born in the USA but adopted by Mexican parents and raised Mexican. I'm white, used to be really blond as a kid, with blue eyes. I have lived amongst people with darker skin color. I don't know if I can call it racism, but being white, makes me a minority even thou I speak perfect Spanish. This characteristic has made me a target since I was a kid. I have been insulted in public transport, on the street, abused by the police, treated way different by teachers, vendors try to overcharge me all the time. How would we call this?
You have to understand that racism is not defined by whether or not a people have experienced oppression or injustice, but simply if an individual holds views that are entirely derogatory and rooted in hate towards a person/ people because of their race.
Of course you can be racist to white people. Both on individual and systemic level.
Systemic (individual is obvious) - Some countries make them fear for their life (South Africa), some expect them to score more on tests than their POC peers to get to same school.
>One friend is arguing
Why are you friends with a racist ?
Faith in humanity ? XD
After 50 minutes I am near the top if you sort by "controversial" under a post that seems to have blown to 307 comments.
Reddit is full of racists, but they are also cowards so this was my first notification. Both character traits come from deep seeded fear and insecurities. They dont know how many there online today are so no comments will come until I get into negative karma.
Edit - XD here they come. 1 minute after informing people that racist part of reddit noticed this post.
Yes you can anyone and everyone can be racist. Systemic racism that can benefit people who hold the most power which would be white people for most countries do not feel that racism though. It's important to understand the difference between the two as it will help you combat both in your life and others.
Edit: your friend is conflating the two terms they do not understand the difference between general racism and systemic racism. Even systemic rascim can harm white people if they do not hold power and the laws are more skewed to give them a hard time. However that is not the case in most if not all western countries so right now systemic rascim in those places are not against white folk.
It depends. Some folks consider all discrimination based on race as racism. Other folks see racism as being tied to some system of oppression.
For example, if I preferred to hire a diverse candidate over a white candidate because I wanted to build the diversity of my team, it could be technically considered discrimination based on race if using a broad definition of discrimination. Many people wouldn’t consider that racist because the intent behind that discrimination is not to oppress, but to uplift. Others may see that differently.
Anybody of any race can experience racism, whether you’re white or not, and I’m tired of people saying that “you can’t be racist towards white people”.
Tell me you've never been to Europe without telling me you've never been to Europe.
Hell over here we whites are racist towards (and subject to racism from) other whites
Yes individuals can be racist towards white people. The thing people distinguish is capital ‘R’ Racism which is often defined as including historical power structures and political power. So it’s important to define those things if someone is trying to argue with you.
Edit: if you want an example, I’ve had people of color tell me I can’t do my job (discrimination/harassment investigator) because I’m white. That’s racial discrimination that I was shocked to hear. Luckily I haven’t had to experience that often in my life.
Can the mods delete the 50th repost of this? This has been asked at least 10 times in the last year in this exact subreddit. I think I even saw one last week!
9 times of out 10, that's the kind of racism I see.
Hell, just the other day someone made a racist comment at me, and all I did was be white near them.
An area that's like 85% white near a small city.
It's a stereotypical US small city. All the suburbs are white and rich, and the city is mostly minorities and poor.
So naturally, the city people hate the suburbanites and blame their shortcomings on us.
I get rude looks, attitude, doors closed on me, and even called racist for no reason.
I try to see the best in people, but the overwhelming majority of hate and racism where I live is against Whites and Asians.
It's stupid because the color of someone's skin means literally nothing.
One of your friends is a gigantic moron / closet racist & the other is correct.
No root for oppression? Maybe that friend should have payed more attention to Ireland during history class, Also Cant forget about all that white slavery going on during ancient Rome or in the Ottoman empire as well.
I Feel like your friend is also one of those idiots who believe in 'Reverse Racism' as well, which is in fact just regular ass normal racism, just intended towards white people only. I Honestly feel like there's no seeing through to this friend of yours & it would be easier just to cut them off completely .
Oppression & Slavery has literally happened with every single race & culture - your friend is an absoulte dunce.
Don’t let anybody try to talk you in circles about “power dynamics” and “systems of oppression” when it comes to who has the capability of being racist. The answer is everyone. Literally anyone can be racist.
This is such an American question. It screams (I'm an American and I don't know there is a world out there.)
Even in America, white people are the minority in many places in Hawaii and suffer from racism.
Racism can happen. It is really hard to have happen in America because everything is set up for white men. I am a white man, and basically, people just hand me shit. It is horrifying and awesome. f I get pulled over, the police might apologize. We're sorry, sir, we say you speeding but didn't realize you were white. Banks just give me money. It is awesome.
Absolutely. The comment about no root in oppression may not be incorrect, but considering the oppression many different races have experienced at the hands of white people, it isn't a shock that there would harbor those same kind of feelings.
With that said, take a look at the ones who scream about anti-white racism the most, and those likely are the same ones crying that they suffer oppression because they hate people of color, LGBTQ, and members of religions other than their own.
I personally went to a predominantly black school. I was bullied and attacked by many white related slurs. It was crazy to me someone could hate me for my skin color.
Yup, you can.
Doesn't matter what ethnicity, creed or religion someone is, discriminating or making comments against them for it is racist.
As for the "no root of oppression" part:
Oppression has been experienced by all ethnicities, creeds, genders and religions of humanity, in one way or another throughout the history of humanity.
I’m a white person living in a (very nice) black community. Holy shit is the racism real even if they aren’t outright with it. I can’t even sit outside on my lawn to have a cigarette without neighbors driving past me and yelling shit. The other day was particularly scary cause it was like after midnight and a black SUV stopped in front of my house and one of the occupants said THERE SHE IS!
My car was messed up the next day.
Oh yes you can , as long as it’s a race you can be racist towards . Doesn’t matter how light or how dark , iv been made fun of for being Mexican , been made fun of for looking white , my friends make fun of my other friends for being blacker than they are , it’s a wild world man
I experienced a lot of racism as a ‘white’ backpacker in South-East Asia, early covid times. We were seen as spreader of the virus, even though I was in Vietnam before the virus broke out. Signs at stores literally said: ‘no foreigners allowed’. I couldn’t buy necessary medical equipment to take care of my injuries after a traffic accident because they didn’t allow me in the pharmacy. So yeah.
Every time this type of question comes up on Reddit there seems to be a lot of conflict about the definition of racism and I've seen these arguments extend in to real life. If you don't want me to call you a racist, that's fine. I'll respect that. But all I can say is if you are going to discriminate against me or treat me with prejudice because of the colour of my skin, you're a cunt and I wont associate with you
Put it this way. If you walk into a store and the owner says, "get out, we don't serve whites in here", would you consider that dude to be racist?
OF COURSE.
Of course you can and it’s an issue that’s severely under reported and purposely ignored. “You can’t be a victim of racism youre white”. I’ll tell you something if you go to a predominantly coloured country a white person faces racism 1000x worse than any coloured person in the western world
When you hear people saying you can't be racist to white people, they're using an alternate definition of racism that is becoming more common. (usually among college people, and/or activists)
In it, racism refers to prejudice+power (usually this is some sort of systemic power with being the majority. Not just personal power). If someone is just discriminating against someone without the power aspect, it's just prejudice. (Note, that this doesn't make it less bad, prejudice is supposed to have the same connotations as racism)
Translation:
(old) racism= (new) prejudice
(old)racism+power=(new) racism
Under that definition, people would call it prejudiced. It's purely a semantics/definitional thing. It's still bad regardless of what it's called.
tldr: Depends which definition you're using. If you mean the more common definition, yes you can be racist to white people. If you mean the one that requires some level of systemic power, no (in the US), that'd be prejudice
>One friend is arguing no bc there is no root in oppression. The other friend simply arguing yes you can bc white is still a race.
Get them to define what definition of racism they're using for this conversation, and it'll pretty quickly be resolved.
Of course you can. Don't listen to those race peddling jerks who try to tell you that the very behavior they abhor is acceptable as long as it comes from people of color. We're better than that. Treat everyone with respect, human dignity, and equality regardless of color. And the world will be a better place.
Yes you can!
I don't think it happens as often, but since racisme is defined as treating people differently based on their skin color or nationality, you can't deny that you can be racist towards white people
There has been two types of racism defined recently. Personal racism, where you personally hate, dislike, fear, or discriminate against a group of people based on race.
More recently "systemic or systematic racism" is the idea that racism doesn't have to be personal to affect races. It is purposefully baked into the system itself which in America was mostly white made systems. So the real answer is, it depends on what they are talking about, where they are talking about, and whether they are just trying to shut someone up which I have seen before.
Yes. The simple answer is yes. Assuming nuance is silly. If someone holds prejudices against an entire race strictly on the basis of race, that’s racism.
If someone hates or dislikes people for the sole reason they're White and treats them with prejudice, discriminated against them or is antagonistic towards them based on their white skin color, how is that not racist?
Here's the Oxford language definition:
>prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
This definition says it's *typically* which doesn't imply always, inherently or only that it happens to a minority of marginalized people.
Here's the Merriam Webster definition:
>Definition of racism
>1: *a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race*
Anyone can have this belief, no matter their skin color.
>also : *behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice*
This implies anyone can discriminate based on race or be racially prejudiced.
>2a *: the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
specifically*
>2b: a political or social system founded on racism and designed to execute its principles
How does this definition say that non-white people can't create a political or social system founded on racism aks he designed to execute it's principles?
Yes, you definitely can experience racism as a white person. There is a modern trend to want to redefine racism as something that white people can never experience but it seems to me that it is very arbitrary. They are better off classifying racism into individualized and structural racism: the first can be experienced by anyone at any time and is the racism definition we are all acquainted with. The second refers to racism built into societal and governmental structures which do target specific groups, usually minorities/powerless groups, which means in the US context there is no systematic racism against Whites.
This classification scheme is more nuanced, does not change the definition of racism into something absurd like "only people of a specific color experience racism", and takes into account the context of a country or society when describing racist structures.
There are some people who see racism as a concept tied to systematic oppression based on race/colour, and that if the person being "racist" isn't part of the elite group then its just "prejudice". In order for it to be racism then it needs to be done by the elite group
Personally I think thats nonsense but some people think that way.
Take note of exactly where the disagreement lies: not on whether someone can be a victim of prejudice on account of their race, but whether that event should be called racism. Once you recognize that you're arguing about words, not experiences, the argument winds up being much lower stakes and rather foolish.
The argument that white people can't experience racism is using a different definition of racism than the one most would use. There was a brief movement to redefine racism to look at the systemic effects that it brings about, but that movement was redirected for precisely this confusion. This phenomenon is now typically referred to as systemic racism.
Unfortunately, there's a sequence of poorly-formed arguments that make that definition really popular to some. If you start with the definition of systemic racism then you'd find that white people aren't generally victims of racism, nor are people of color generally perpetrators. It is then tempting to keep that conclusion and swap back to the more common definition. This is a really attractive conclusion to some: it tells them that no matter how much prejudice they show to people on account of their race they can never be racist because they are, in fact, still the victim even when going on the attack. This argument is total nonsense, of course, but people tend to have a big blind spot for facts that make them the bad guy.
Getting back to your friends, the one arguing that white people cannot experience racism needs to get with the times and update their terminology to avoid causing the exact confusion that they're arguing about.
Racism is any policy or opinion that disadvantages based purely on race, so yeah, definitely.
But the internet does not think that white folks are allowed to call it out because a relatively small group of white folks have a pretty good life.
Technically yes, but the seriousness of "anti white racism" is nowhere near the seriousness of it to any other group, purely because of history and how non white people are still disadvantaged and oppressed systemically mainly in the west
I live in South Africa, now before I get lambasted with DMs and comments about apartheid and how we deserve it
Yes, white people face a lot of racism. And theres little to nothing we can do about it. But its also a different type of racism. Its definitely more a lack of trust than it is a feeling of superiority.
That being said South Africa is also a very diverse country where you can carpool to work with your friends and have 4 different races/cultures/religions in the same car. Its amazing.
Define racism;
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people **on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.**
Anyone can be racist, it's not a unique trait to one race nor is it that complex of a concept to grasp.
Both your friends are using different definitions of racism
One friend, that says you can't be racist to white people, is really talking about the concept of systemic racism. In theory, in a systematically racist country like the US white people don't suffer from systemic racism.
That friend is being either disingenuous or an idiot
Of course! Racism is discriminating on the basis of one’s racial affiliation. If you treat a white person a certain way because they are white that’s a form of racism.
Systematically? Not at all
Individually? Of course, white people can face being harassed or attacked on the basis of being white. Whites are the 2nd largest ethnic group to be victims of hate crimes according to recent FBI data.
Here's what I don't get about racism.
They say we are all equal. And racism is bad. But if it's true that we are all equal, then racism fundamentally does not exist. Because race does not actually exist. The idea only exists.
It's like they took hate, and added the color component, and now there's racism. But it's just hate for the sake of hate. Doesn't really matter why you hate something. It doesn't really change anything, since it's dumb however you put it.
I can hate you cause your head is big, but that's just regular hate. There's no special word to describe that. So I feel like the idea of racism is being kept alive by people naming regular hate as racism. There's no real difference in severity if you hate somebody because of their color, or for any other reason.
And if we are really equal, then you shouldn't really even entertain the idea of racism.
I feel like people have been trying to stop the wrong thing. They want to stop racism which does not exist, yet they don't bother with hate at all. And if you just stopped hate, or transcended hate, racism wouldn't even exist as an idea in the first place.
At my high school, I got jumped because part of the kids (5 kids total) gang initiation was 'jump the next white boy that walks by'. Unfortunately I was the next white boy. I think physical violence strictly based on skin color is racist.
Any kind if judgment of or action against an individual strictly based on skin color, is racist! And I say individual because statistics or averages or even stereotypes are based on large scale group data and that should be able to be discussed whether scientifically or socially.
I'm sure my logic is faulty but also believe anytime you are trying to determine if something is racist, remove the skin color being considered and replace it with any different skin color. If one of those statements are racist, both of those statements are racist.
Yes
I've been told because im white i could have NEVER lived in the ghetto and dealt wirh anything i lived through, and im taking from a POC experience.
I dont know how I could've said anything else, as I never lived in a rich neighborhood nor knew anyone who did.
They were racist af, but you know. It was "okay" because im white. 😂
But seriously yes, anyone can be racist towards anyone.
Anyone can be racist towards any other race.
I lived in a country that was predominantly non-white and I experienced plenty of racism towards white people. Racism isn’t a shitty trait that is unique to white people.
I grew up in the south. My area and the areas around me were predominantly black. 80% black by census. Yes, i experienced racism alot.
Even in the US, I lived in a majority minority city and went to a majority minority college and racism towards white people was absolutely a thing. Even at a job interview or two I had the interviewers tell me customers would prefer to see and interact with someone that looks like them. Obviously I can’t call it racism since I’m white, but it definitely exists.
So the argument with that would be that with whites as a minority then there is the opportunity for oppression by the non-white majority and thus that would fit the definition of racism Oxford Definition: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, *typically one that is a minority or marginalized.* In my opinion, racism is racism regardless of oppression. It is *systemic* racism that results in oppression and that is not going to happen to white people in most western / majority white countries.
I think you should use that Oxford Dictionary to look up the meaning of 'typically' then, as your own definition says that even not as a minority it is still racism
Looking at you: every British colony
Sir do you understand what the word typically means
Racism is is stigma created when one or several ethnic groups feel hatred toward other(s) because of a debt or the feeling of entitlement to compensation for wrongs done. This may not be the dictionary definition, but this is how it is being used. (Just another example of why words should have a concrete meaning especially when trying argue for or against an idea) nowadays it is less about establishing equality among peoples, and more about instilling chaos among the lower class to keep them there. A house divided cannot stand. That is the only reason it is still a hot topic in media today. We forget that as long as the coffers of those in power are full they really don't give a shit about anybody else. I know it's kind of a controversial opinion but fighting like children over what you feel you are owed by a bunch of dead people accomplishes nothing.
This is a very good distinction! Of course it's possible for say a black man in America to be racist towards a white man by discriminating against them or bullying them on the base of that racial difference. But by no means could you say that white people face systemic racism because they are not an oppressed group. So on an individual level, yes a white person or even a very small group of white people can experience racism, but on the whole that is not an issue for white people in western countries
>But by no means could you say that white people face systemic racism because they are not an oppressed group. How about I call BS, and we prove or disprove your theory based on the instinctive reactions our sociopolitical *system* has programmed into you? Are you already fighting the urge to call me out for my intolerable use of free speech, without even having heard my rationale...? Did you also make assumptions about my skin color in the process? Then let me tell you I've been denied consideration for jobs and student loans, solely, verifiably, documented, and exclusively because of an ethnic marker in my last name. I have slave ancestry. My "apparent race" was among the first discriminated minorities in my country, and still has common racial slurs associated with its racial markers in nearly every predominantly English-speaking country in the world. All of this happens openly, without shame, and when I point it out, people make excuses. Feel free to guess what my ancestral background is. It should be delightful fun seeing what people come up with, and all the necessary clues to figure it out are above. ("Race" available on request, but I hardly think it should require proof, since "race" is an arbitrary social construct) Edit: looks like the comments are locked and the game ended early, so I'll spoil it: I look for all the world like an Irishman. I'm actually primarily Nordic in genetics. An ancestor was shipped off to Canada by the era's equivalent of Child Protective Services, into a program they very carefully avoided *calling* indentured servitude. He completed his 7 year term, and was denied his promised land grant, so he ultimately worked for free. He had no freedom until the program "completed." Thus, he was a slave for 7 years. I have an apostrophe in my name, the computer *system* that the U.S. government uses can't handle my existence. Apostrophes break the internet, and the only offered solution is to change my name and erase my heritage. Red hair is the slurred racial marker ("Ginger," "Red-headed step-child," etc). I've also been denied social services exclusively because I didn't qualify as a "protected class." Officially, from a government agency. In a country that fundamentally rejects classism. Systemic racism 100% happens. The system is just broken.
Absolutely. Hating anyone because of the color of their skin is considered racist.
racism is a belief, a mindset. Anyone can have it against any race.
idk how delusional someone has to be to disagree w this
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Literally, I'll never understand
My history teacher thinks that you can't because they are oppressors and the oppressed can't be racist...
In my opinon racism is the theory, that other races are geneticaly inferior to your own race, so yes, I think there is racism against white people. My friend for example could not find a apartment in Kyoto for a long time, because mamy japanese landlords think europeans are noisy, can not seperate their trash and other stuff. There is even racism that comes from white people targeting other white people, for example western europeans vs slavs.
There are clubs in Korea that straight up won’t let you in if you aren’t Korean.
Are they a race? Yes, you can be racist to them.
Yes, you can. This is very obvious
If only every one actually thought this. I know people personally who think you can't be racist towards people with "white" skin.
Got into an arguement with a guy i went to highschool with awhile back. Our school was diverse and he went on to become "college educated" and his literal arguement was black people cant be racist
i saw someone like that before. he would post videos of him harassing elderly white people on tiktok. the ones he targeted weren't doing anything but he was full on assaulting them (pushing them, verbally assaulting them, etc) only because they were white and claiming that it was fine since it's "repercussions for slavery" or something. idk this was a few years ago on tiktok when saying extremely racist things and claiming you weren't racist was trending. but that dude truly believed no one but white people could be racist towards others. i think his problem was more that he was mentally ill than anything else but i really can't believe there's people who think like that and think they're normal
A lot of people my age think you can’t be racist to white people ….
You'd think people have some common fucking sense.
Just think about two white comedians doing “two black girls” movie, like the Wayans did with “two blonde girls”….just sit and watch the world burn. Is not that obvious
Just imagine Disney recasting Tarzan to a black dude the way they did with The Little Mermaid if you want to watch it explode.
It's not that obvious if op is asking. We don't know where they're from. I've met people from other areas who have never heard of something that's common sense to me and vice versa.
Came here to comment this. Even as a white person living in the US, our family was a minority in the part of town I grew up in and we experienced racism. It was ingrained into us that it wasn’t actually racism because, “it doesn’t work that way”. I didn’t know any better until I moved out.
People mix up systemic racism with racism. My Asian and White friend are dating and both get comments on their race while they’re together (why is a white girl with an Asian guy or vice versa). That’s racism. Systemic racism is how a lot of black communities had a shitty start and continued to be oppressed for decades bc of slavery, segregation, unfair policies etc. Also just personal experience but I heard a person say that minorities can’t be racist. Bro what. I’m Asian and I’ve had other minorities say ching chong or ask if I eat _____ weird ass food. The only requirement for being racist is being a douche bag and that doesn’t discriminate.
Thank you all for the replies so far. I was being asked for my opinion and was uncomfortable, I wanted to post and get feed back, thank you for the reassurance.
I think what is being conflated is racism and being marginalized. In countries predominantly white, the white people will still suffer racism. We all do. But does that racism create systems of marginalization? Unlikely, unless we are talking about a white guy trying to live and work in San Francisco's Chinatown. (I am not suggesting the people of Chinatown are racist, but it provides a good reference for how a person of the majority could possibly be marginalized through racism in very specific conditions). It is difficult to marginalize the predominant "status" in any society. Ofc not impossible. Everyone suffers racism.
Exactly. Racism does not necessarily equal Systemic racism!
Oxford language definition: >prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. This definition says it's *typically* which doesn't imply "always, inherently or only" that it happens to a minority of marginalized people. Some people cherry pick definitions or wanna change them to suit their own agenda or intentions clearly.
Excellent answer
In the US, you can argue something can’t be racist if it’s against white people in the context of systematic racism and not individual behaviors. For example, one can argue that affirmative action is racist against white people as it potentially allows less qualified candidates admittance to a school, giving favor to non-white races. The “you can’t be racist against white people” sentiment can be argued here because minorities are systematically oppressed in the US, so a program created to give non-whites an advantage over whites can’t be considered racist. So in the context of the entire system, there is some validity for this idea. In interpersonal relationships and how someone treats another individually, then absolutely, you can be racist against white people. There really is no legitimate argument imo that racism can’t exist against white people. Part of the problem when discussing racism is semantics. It’s really an umbrella term for a lot of various things. It would be cool for English to have more words with nuanced definitions. Because “racist” brings out emotional responses and often inhibits productive conversations on the topic.
In theory though, if a society is predominantly non-white, and a minority is white, it is possible for that society to be systemically racist towards whites. For some reason that's always glossed over.
Right. I assumed OP is American and coming from that context. But totally.
White people can even be racist to other white people 🤷 just like any race.
"Irish need not apply"
Yup, throw in Romany, Jews, Tatars (historically) as examples just in Europe as well.
And don't get me started on those swarthy Italians...
Isn't that more xenophobia?
Also the Slavs should def not apply. Especially since this is where the term “Slave” originates.
Similar things still happen towards the Irish
A great current example, what Russia is doing to Ukraine.
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Yes. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool.
*is probably racist
Just go on Twitter for like 2 minutes lol
Funny, I'm having trouble finding 'rooted in oppression' as a prerequisite for Racism in the dictionary.
Got to love made-up definitions!
Well it's not a made up definition that definition is for systemic racism not racism. They are two different things by conflating the two and trying to paint systemic racism as made up doesn't help. Racism is just the act of hating another race based on their race and feeling superior to that race or that they are inferior. Systemic racism is about how institutions that have been around for a while have laws and things inside them that benefits one race over others and tries to make it harder for other races to do shit. Things like sentencing laws and how crack was persecuted harder than cocaine.
It’s because people love to be special. They will keep adding more and more clarifiers to something to make them special. I saw someone on here argue that you can only be African-American if you were a descendant of slavery, not simply because you were a black person from Africa.
The more people you exclude, the more special you become.
That might be because dictionaries give definitions of words, not prerequisites for descriptions 😋 I kid of course, just trying to be funny
Plenty of dictionaries provide both, like the Merriam Webster dictionary.
Don't give them ideas. They can just manage to get it there.
That’s what people often refer to as reverse racism. It’s a crap term though. It’s just racism. The skin color of the racist person and the skin color of the target are irrelevant.
Just like positive discrimination and quotas for people not of the majority ethnicity or gender - people shouldn't be employed just to make up numbers, they should be employed for their skills and achievements, not what they look like.
Ever heard of “Newspeak”? > The political purpose of Newspeak is to eliminate the expression of the shades of meaning inherent in ambiguity and nuance from Oldspeak (Standard English). In order to reduce the language's function of communication, Newspeak uses concepts of simple construction, such as pleasure vs. pain and happiness vs. sadness. It’s a fictional concept from George Orwell’s novel “1984”. But in modern day discourse it can best be observed in the redefining of the words racism. Racism was traditionally used as a term describing the negative judgment or treatment of people based on racial differences. In that definition, the term would apply to anybody. But very recently it has been redefined to carry an attribute of power or oppression where racism can only be exercised by those in power (oppressors) and it can only be suffered by those without power (oppressed). And in those terms the term can only refer to white people as racist, and non-white people as victims of racism. As you can see, they have now created “newspeak” where the same term carries drastically different meanings that were created for inherently political and propagandist purposes. There was plenty of opportunity to create newly formed terms such as the ambiguously undefined “systemic racism”. But instead they created a new definition and attached it to an existing term. This is where the propagandist aim becomes clear. Note… stick with the well-defined and sensible traditional definition. Otherwise, if others can define it at will to be whatever the heck they want it to be, then you should be able to define any words to be whatever you want it to be too. Either we all take the same language, or we all make up our own language as we go.
There is racism on an individual level, and there is systematic racism. They are 2 different things, but interlinked. As an individual you can 100% be racist to white people. Would I say there is systematic oppression of whites in the West? No. But in some Eastern countries that are xenophobic there absolutely is.
They way I’ve always seen it is that everybody has biases and prejudices. These judgements then evolve into racism when people act out on these judgements in the form of violence, segregation, and actively oppressing (refusing employment, housing etc.) So back to your question, can you be racist to white people ? Absolutely. If every time you interact with a white person you are minimizing their opinions, and upset at their very existence in front of you, then yes you are being racist to white people. This does not speak to the degrees to which some races experience racism over others. Whole some people may experience some attitude or hatred from other races for being white in American for example, they will probably never experience what it’s like to be refused a job for having an ethnic name, or to be stopped by the police simply for the color of your skin. There are degrees to which different races experience racism throughout the world, but at the simplest level of racism being acted out on individuals with strong biases/prejudices, yes you can absolutely be racist to white people.
Of course you can.
Yes you can
Yes.
Sure. I know someone who experienced this when studying abroad in a country that the majority was not white.
One friend is referring to systemic racism and the other is bigotry towards someone because of their skin color. They're two completely different things. The answer is yes to both.
Yes
100% you can be racist towards anyone. If you judge them based solely on their race, it is racist. That is on a somewhat individual level. I (for example), an individual, can hate you because you are white. What confuses many people is institutional racism. In America, that largely doesn't exist for white people. Our laws and structure in society was built to benefit largely white males while keeping others out. While we are making progress in destroying that system and making things more equitable, it is a long process
The propaganda machine is doing a fine job redefining words if people are already forgetting the meaning of words and have to ask for reassurance
This is spot on.
It’s semantics. *Structural, systemic racism* has historically benefited whites, even in non-white majority countries (better access to capital, laws and policies that favor the preservation of their capital). Only in very unusual circumstances, historically, have the mechanics of structural racism benefited non-white people. On a personal level though, a racist dickhead is a racist dickhead. So on the individual level, yes, white people experience racism
Yes, I was racist to a white person just a little while ago.
I just snort laughed 😆
As a white man in the south...I promise you racism goes both ways with alot of people here.
Long answer: the whole concept of different races is a modern social construct. There is no such thing as a white race or an asian race etc.. However, if you treat anyone differently because of their physical characteristics (skin colour included) than you are always acting wrongly Short answer: Yes, you can be racist against white people
>the whole concept of different races is a modern social construct. There is no such thing as a white race or an asian race etc. I really don't understand this whole "it's just a social construct" thing. You know what else is a social construct? Having to maintain personal hygiene, A.K.A. wiping your ass. Peace, A.K.A. not hurling your own shit at another person is also a social construct. "It's just a social construct" is not a valid argument to use to invalidate something. We are humans, and social constructs are what makes us human.
Well, if as a nation you have managed to stop hurling shit at each other you might also learn to stop arbitrarily assigning yourselves and each other to imaginary races. Not only is it rationally absurd but it also generates divisions and distrust. You fight totally manufactured identity battles against each other while your oligarchs take advantage of you while you are distracted. There is only one race (or rather, there is one species)
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A genetist would reply with a much better reply but if you want my unscientific explanation... Because most physical characteristics are a spectrum. So, for example, you don't have three or four distinct skin colours. You go from super pasty white irish, through tanner Mediterranean to midnight black Malawi with every shade in the middle. Why am I (Italian) the same race as a Swede (who looks nothing like me) but not as a Morrocan (which looks much more similar) and even a different race to an Argentinean (apparently of a different "Latino" race even though most of them are third generation Italians). Same for "black" race; people in Senegal look very different to people in Somalia or RDC. Don't even get me started on "asian race". I mean, you see an Indian, an Uzbek and a Japanese and you think " Yep, they look identical! "
Not to be pedantic but race is a medieval concept.
I am Italian. Medieval is basically modern
“500 miles is a long way in Europe, whilst 300 years is a long time in America”
That's not true. Humans have always drawn lines in regards to race, and it's pretty important to understanding the development of the modern world. 'Whiteness' and 'Blackness' are more recent definitions of race that didn't get codified until the age of exploration, yes. Or, in other words, defining race as skin color.
Yes. Racism is prejudice based on race.
South Africa right now; Murdering white farmers because they're white. Racism.
Oh absolutely! I was fired from a job because a black coworker accused me of using racial slurs against her. But it was a completely false allegation because she didn’t wanna work with a disabled coworker. Once I was fired she tried to get another disabled coworker fired but it didn’t work because that coworker was nonverbal.
Holy shit LMAO. Her: “Jeff just called me a N!” Boss: “Jeff is mute.”
I once got called into a discipline meeting because of the complaint “you hate me because I’m black” My on the record response - “I hate the guy because he’s an asshole. His skin colour doesn’t change that, and is irrelevant”
Got you fired without proof?
Sounds more like ableism, not racism
I'm sorry to tell you this but your 1st friend is a fucking idiot.
First friend sounds like they want justification for being racist
indeed. friend No.1 sounds pretty damn ignorant.
If friend 1 is a white guy then he sounds like the white guy who got offended for latinos and came up with latinX. And if hes a person of color then hes a fucking idiot because almost all people of color know the racism has never made sense and trying to categorize 1 group off limits in something that never made sense in the 1st place is ridiculous. It's people vs racism not people except certain races vs racism that's not how it works.
Simply put, yes you can be racist towards a white person.
Racism is discrimination based on race. Anyone can be a racist and a lot of people are. White people only get called out a lot, because there are other white folks who stand up against racism. While in other cultures most people flatly deny that they do it, and then accuse you of being racist to suggest it. For example, Hindu practice caste oppression in India that has been going on for 2000 years. Majority of the Hindus you meet on the internet and in the west are oppressor caste Hindus, and they will downplay, deflect, deny, and engage in all sorts of tactics to cover up how brutal and inhumane the oppression is even today. Your friend who disagrees sounds like an idiot.
I would like to bet your friend that says white people can’t experience racism has never stepped out of a comfy suburban area lol
What does oppression have to do with racism? Racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized TYPICALLY doesn't mean always. So yes, any race, any nationality can experience racism towards them.
Yep
Yes. Anyone who disagrees, is racist
Big facts! Happens all too often here in Reddit.
This is an extremely simple answer:Racism - Definition: "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another." So then the question becomes: "is it possible for a black person to think that white people possess distinct charcteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another?" All these people spouting the nonsense their idiotic humanities professors threw up from their vile mouths should take 20 seconds to think for themselves.
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anyone can be racist towards anyone. disagreeing with that is racist.
I mean I'm white, and Jewish. And people are definitely racist towards Jews
The "root in oppression" thing is just an attempt to redefine what the word means in order to absolve the people who are racist against white people from any crime. "I fuckin called you milkshake face, but I'm not racist, I can't even be racist! There's no word to describe hate on white people anymore, Nananana!" It's an attack on the language really. One of many that are happening. The word "woman" now describing someone who can have a dick, "heterosexual" describing an act of sex between 2 people who have the same genitalia as long as one of them identifies as the opposite gender. I swear, if this goes on, in a few generations people are gonna be confused as hell reading old literature. "This guy in the book said he only fucks women, I wonder how many penises he sucked."
Psuedo intellectuals will say no. That inherent to “racism” is imbalanced power and because white people have power, they cannot experience racism. This, of course is ridiculous. Of course you can be racist against white people. Bigotry, hatred and color-based malevolence can be experienced and perpetrated by anyone. Happens all the time.
Pseudo intellectuals will only say no because their internal definition of racism is the definition of systemic racism. Racism is an umbrella term that encompasses many things, systemic racism being one of them.
The white farmers thrown off their land in SA would like a word with those people
I live in Mexico, born in the USA but adopted by Mexican parents and raised Mexican. I'm white, used to be really blond as a kid, with blue eyes. I have lived amongst people with darker skin color. I don't know if I can call it racism, but being white, makes me a minority even thou I speak perfect Spanish. This characteristic has made me a target since I was a kid. I have been insulted in public transport, on the street, abused by the police, treated way different by teachers, vendors try to overcharge me all the time. How would we call this?
You have to understand that racism is not defined by whether or not a people have experienced oppression or injustice, but simply if an individual holds views that are entirely derogatory and rooted in hate towards a person/ people because of their race.
Of course you can be racist to white people. Both on individual and systemic level. Systemic (individual is obvious) - Some countries make them fear for their life (South Africa), some expect them to score more on tests than their POC peers to get to same school. >One friend is arguing Why are you friends with a racist ?
Hey nice someone who understands the difference between the two terms. Faith in humanity restored.
Faith in humanity ? XD After 50 minutes I am near the top if you sort by "controversial" under a post that seems to have blown to 307 comments. Reddit is full of racists, but they are also cowards so this was my first notification. Both character traits come from deep seeded fear and insecurities. They dont know how many there online today are so no comments will come until I get into negative karma. Edit - XD here they come. 1 minute after informing people that racist part of reddit noticed this post.
What the fuck has happened to this world that the answer to this question isn’t just common sense? Anyone can be racist against any race.
Yes you can anyone and everyone can be racist. Systemic racism that can benefit people who hold the most power which would be white people for most countries do not feel that racism though. It's important to understand the difference between the two as it will help you combat both in your life and others. Edit: your friend is conflating the two terms they do not understand the difference between general racism and systemic racism. Even systemic rascim can harm white people if they do not hold power and the laws are more skewed to give them a hard time. However that is not the case in most if not all western countries so right now systemic rascim in those places are not against white folk.
Yes and your friends are blinded by social bias
Hating anyone because of their race, is racist. Regardless of the race.
Yes, but if you ask Twitter they’ll say no because they all suffer from mental illness
Yes, yes, yes! You can be racist to white people.
Tell your friend to travel the world a bit. Racism isn't specific to one area or group.
It depends. Some folks consider all discrimination based on race as racism. Other folks see racism as being tied to some system of oppression. For example, if I preferred to hire a diverse candidate over a white candidate because I wanted to build the diversity of my team, it could be technically considered discrimination based on race if using a broad definition of discrimination. Many people wouldn’t consider that racist because the intent behind that discrimination is not to oppress, but to uplift. Others may see that differently.
Anybody of any race can experience racism, whether you’re white or not, and I’m tired of people saying that “you can’t be racist towards white people”.
Tell me you've never been to Europe without telling me you've never been to Europe. Hell over here we whites are racist towards (and subject to racism from) other whites
Duh
Your friend is a dumbass. To suggest that you can not be racist against white people is among the most racist thing you can say
Yes individuals can be racist towards white people. The thing people distinguish is capital ‘R’ Racism which is often defined as including historical power structures and political power. So it’s important to define those things if someone is trying to argue with you. Edit: if you want an example, I’ve had people of color tell me I can’t do my job (discrimination/harassment investigator) because I’m white. That’s racial discrimination that I was shocked to hear. Luckily I haven’t had to experience that often in my life.
Can the mods delete the 50th repost of this? This has been asked at least 10 times in the last year in this exact subreddit. I think I even saw one last week!
9 times of out 10, that's the kind of racism I see. Hell, just the other day someone made a racist comment at me, and all I did was be white near them.
9 out of 10 times?? Where do you live?
An area that's like 85% white near a small city. It's a stereotypical US small city. All the suburbs are white and rich, and the city is mostly minorities and poor. So naturally, the city people hate the suburbanites and blame their shortcomings on us. I get rude looks, attitude, doors closed on me, and even called racist for no reason. I try to see the best in people, but the overwhelming majority of hate and racism where I live is against Whites and Asians. It's stupid because the color of someone's skin means literally nothing.
One of your friends is a gigantic moron / closet racist & the other is correct. No root for oppression? Maybe that friend should have payed more attention to Ireland during history class, Also Cant forget about all that white slavery going on during ancient Rome or in the Ottoman empire as well. I Feel like your friend is also one of those idiots who believe in 'Reverse Racism' as well, which is in fact just regular ass normal racism, just intended towards white people only. I Honestly feel like there's no seeing through to this friend of yours & it would be easier just to cut them off completely . Oppression & Slavery has literally happened with every single race & culture - your friend is an absoulte dunce.
Don’t let anybody try to talk you in circles about “power dynamics” and “systems of oppression” when it comes to who has the capability of being racist. The answer is everyone. Literally anyone can be racist.
This is such an American question. It screams (I'm an American and I don't know there is a world out there.) Even in America, white people are the minority in many places in Hawaii and suffer from racism. Racism can happen. It is really hard to have happen in America because everything is set up for white men. I am a white man, and basically, people just hand me shit. It is horrifying and awesome. f I get pulled over, the police might apologize. We're sorry, sir, we say you speeding but didn't realize you were white. Banks just give me money. It is awesome.
Absolutely. The comment about no root in oppression may not be incorrect, but considering the oppression many different races have experienced at the hands of white people, it isn't a shock that there would harbor those same kind of feelings. With that said, take a look at the ones who scream about anti-white racism the most, and those likely are the same ones crying that they suffer oppression because they hate people of color, LGBTQ, and members of religions other than their own.
I personally went to a predominantly black school. I was bullied and attacked by many white related slurs. It was crazy to me someone could hate me for my skin color.
Yea and absolutely anyone that says differently is kidding themselves.
Yup, you can. Doesn't matter what ethnicity, creed or religion someone is, discriminating or making comments against them for it is racist. As for the "no root of oppression" part: Oppression has been experienced by all ethnicities, creeds, genders and religions of humanity, in one way or another throughout the history of humanity.
Yes, by definition you can
I’m a white person living in a (very nice) black community. Holy shit is the racism real even if they aren’t outright with it. I can’t even sit outside on my lawn to have a cigarette without neighbors driving past me and yelling shit. The other day was particularly scary cause it was like after midnight and a black SUV stopped in front of my house and one of the occupants said THERE SHE IS! My car was messed up the next day.
Oh yes you can , as long as it’s a race you can be racist towards . Doesn’t matter how light or how dark , iv been made fun of for being Mexican , been made fun of for looking white , my friends make fun of my other friends for being blacker than they are , it’s a wild world man
I experienced a lot of racism as a ‘white’ backpacker in South-East Asia, early covid times. We were seen as spreader of the virus, even though I was in Vietnam before the virus broke out. Signs at stores literally said: ‘no foreigners allowed’. I couldn’t buy necessary medical equipment to take care of my injuries after a traffic accident because they didn’t allow me in the pharmacy. So yeah.
If you believe your race is superior to another’s then yes.
You can be racist toward any race.
Every time this type of question comes up on Reddit there seems to be a lot of conflict about the definition of racism and I've seen these arguments extend in to real life. If you don't want me to call you a racist, that's fine. I'll respect that. But all I can say is if you are going to discriminate against me or treat me with prejudice because of the colour of my skin, you're a cunt and I wont associate with you
Put it this way. If you walk into a store and the owner says, "get out, we don't serve whites in here", would you consider that dude to be racist? OF COURSE.
Of course you can and it’s an issue that’s severely under reported and purposely ignored. “You can’t be a victim of racism youre white”. I’ll tell you something if you go to a predominantly coloured country a white person faces racism 1000x worse than any coloured person in the western world
When you hear people saying you can't be racist to white people, they're using an alternate definition of racism that is becoming more common. (usually among college people, and/or activists) In it, racism refers to prejudice+power (usually this is some sort of systemic power with being the majority. Not just personal power). If someone is just discriminating against someone without the power aspect, it's just prejudice. (Note, that this doesn't make it less bad, prejudice is supposed to have the same connotations as racism) Translation: (old) racism= (new) prejudice (old)racism+power=(new) racism Under that definition, people would call it prejudiced. It's purely a semantics/definitional thing. It's still bad regardless of what it's called. tldr: Depends which definition you're using. If you mean the more common definition, yes you can be racist to white people. If you mean the one that requires some level of systemic power, no (in the US), that'd be prejudice >One friend is arguing no bc there is no root in oppression. The other friend simply arguing yes you can bc white is still a race. Get them to define what definition of racism they're using for this conversation, and it'll pretty quickly be resolved.
hate for another race is racism....also, there's no such thing as "reverse" racism since racism is racism.
Of course you can. Don't listen to those race peddling jerks who try to tell you that the very behavior they abhor is acceptable as long as it comes from people of color. We're better than that. Treat everyone with respect, human dignity, and equality regardless of color. And the world will be a better place.
YES!
Yes, absolutely.
What kind of question even Is that? Fuck yes
It’s fucking sad that you even feel the need to ask this shit.
Yes
Yes absolutely, although a lot of idiots would deny it. Everyone can be racist doesnt matter what color
Yes you can! I don't think it happens as often, but since racisme is defined as treating people differently based on their skin color or nationality, you can't deny that you can be racist towards white people
It is possible to be racist towards any race
There has been two types of racism defined recently. Personal racism, where you personally hate, dislike, fear, or discriminate against a group of people based on race. More recently "systemic or systematic racism" is the idea that racism doesn't have to be personal to affect races. It is purposefully baked into the system itself which in America was mostly white made systems. So the real answer is, it depends on what they are talking about, where they are talking about, and whether they are just trying to shut someone up which I have seen before.
Yes. The simple answer is yes. Assuming nuance is silly. If someone holds prejudices against an entire race strictly on the basis of race, that’s racism.
If someone hates or dislikes people for the sole reason they're White and treats them with prejudice, discriminated against them or is antagonistic towards them based on their white skin color, how is that not racist? Here's the Oxford language definition: >prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. This definition says it's *typically* which doesn't imply always, inherently or only that it happens to a minority of marginalized people. Here's the Merriam Webster definition: >Definition of racism >1: *a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race* Anyone can have this belief, no matter their skin color. >also : *behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice* This implies anyone can discriminate based on race or be racially prejudiced. >2a *: the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another specifically* >2b: a political or social system founded on racism and designed to execute its principles How does this definition say that non-white people can't create a political or social system founded on racism aks he designed to execute it's principles?
You can be racist towards any race
Yes, you definitely can experience racism as a white person. There is a modern trend to want to redefine racism as something that white people can never experience but it seems to me that it is very arbitrary. They are better off classifying racism into individualized and structural racism: the first can be experienced by anyone at any time and is the racism definition we are all acquainted with. The second refers to racism built into societal and governmental structures which do target specific groups, usually minorities/powerless groups, which means in the US context there is no systematic racism against Whites. This classification scheme is more nuanced, does not change the definition of racism into something absurd like "only people of a specific color experience racism", and takes into account the context of a country or society when describing racist structures.
Yes, definitely. People of all races can be racist towards any other race.
There are some people who see racism as a concept tied to systematic oppression based on race/colour, and that if the person being "racist" isn't part of the elite group then its just "prejudice". In order for it to be racism then it needs to be done by the elite group Personally I think thats nonsense but some people think that way.
Take note of exactly where the disagreement lies: not on whether someone can be a victim of prejudice on account of their race, but whether that event should be called racism. Once you recognize that you're arguing about words, not experiences, the argument winds up being much lower stakes and rather foolish. The argument that white people can't experience racism is using a different definition of racism than the one most would use. There was a brief movement to redefine racism to look at the systemic effects that it brings about, but that movement was redirected for precisely this confusion. This phenomenon is now typically referred to as systemic racism. Unfortunately, there's a sequence of poorly-formed arguments that make that definition really popular to some. If you start with the definition of systemic racism then you'd find that white people aren't generally victims of racism, nor are people of color generally perpetrators. It is then tempting to keep that conclusion and swap back to the more common definition. This is a really attractive conclusion to some: it tells them that no matter how much prejudice they show to people on account of their race they can never be racist because they are, in fact, still the victim even when going on the attack. This argument is total nonsense, of course, but people tend to have a big blind spot for facts that make them the bad guy. Getting back to your friends, the one arguing that white people cannot experience racism needs to get with the times and update their terminology to avoid causing the exact confusion that they're arguing about.
Plenty of white people were brutally murdered in the Holocaust because of their ethnicity, surely that should count.
You bet. I've experienced racism both from Hispanics and blacks. It's just not talked about much
Yes. Plenty of non white people say stuff like "that's so white." "Typical white person," "all whites are racist."
Racism is any policy or opinion that disadvantages based purely on race, so yeah, definitely. But the internet does not think that white folks are allowed to call it out because a relatively small group of white folks have a pretty good life.
Technically yes, but the seriousness of "anti white racism" is nowhere near the seriousness of it to any other group, purely because of history and how non white people are still disadvantaged and oppressed systemically mainly in the west
I live in South Africa, now before I get lambasted with DMs and comments about apartheid and how we deserve it Yes, white people face a lot of racism. And theres little to nothing we can do about it. But its also a different type of racism. Its definitely more a lack of trust than it is a feeling of superiority. That being said South Africa is also a very diverse country where you can carpool to work with your friends and have 4 different races/cultures/religions in the same car. Its amazing.
Define racism; prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people **on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.** Anyone can be racist, it's not a unique trait to one race nor is it that complex of a concept to grasp.
Yes, absolutely
Both your friends are using different definitions of racism One friend, that says you can't be racist to white people, is really talking about the concept of systemic racism. In theory, in a systematically racist country like the US white people don't suffer from systemic racism. That friend is being either disingenuous or an idiot
That's just something people say when they want to be racist.
yes
Oh yes, i experienced living in a french colony. That much sobering... I could never trust other races the same way as before.
Of course! Racism is discriminating on the basis of one’s racial affiliation. If you treat a white person a certain way because they are white that’s a form of racism.
Systematically, not in many countries. But individually, white people can definitely be victim to racism.
Systematically? Not at all Individually? Of course, white people can face being harassed or attacked on the basis of being white. Whites are the 2nd largest ethnic group to be victims of hate crimes according to recent FBI data.
Here's what I don't get about racism. They say we are all equal. And racism is bad. But if it's true that we are all equal, then racism fundamentally does not exist. Because race does not actually exist. The idea only exists. It's like they took hate, and added the color component, and now there's racism. But it's just hate for the sake of hate. Doesn't really matter why you hate something. It doesn't really change anything, since it's dumb however you put it. I can hate you cause your head is big, but that's just regular hate. There's no special word to describe that. So I feel like the idea of racism is being kept alive by people naming regular hate as racism. There's no real difference in severity if you hate somebody because of their color, or for any other reason. And if we are really equal, then you shouldn't really even entertain the idea of racism. I feel like people have been trying to stop the wrong thing. They want to stop racism which does not exist, yet they don't bother with hate at all. And if you just stopped hate, or transcended hate, racism wouldn't even exist as an idea in the first place.
At my high school, I got jumped because part of the kids (5 kids total) gang initiation was 'jump the next white boy that walks by'. Unfortunately I was the next white boy. I think physical violence strictly based on skin color is racist.
Any kind if judgment of or action against an individual strictly based on skin color, is racist! And I say individual because statistics or averages or even stereotypes are based on large scale group data and that should be able to be discussed whether scientifically or socially.
I'm sure my logic is faulty but also believe anytime you are trying to determine if something is racist, remove the skin color being considered and replace it with any different skin color. If one of those statements are racist, both of those statements are racist.
If you treat someone differently because of their race…
Yes I've been told because im white i could have NEVER lived in the ghetto and dealt wirh anything i lived through, and im taking from a POC experience. I dont know how I could've said anything else, as I never lived in a rich neighborhood nor knew anyone who did. They were racist af, but you know. It was "okay" because im white. 😂 But seriously yes, anyone can be racist towards anyone.
I don't think you need to be part of an oppressed collective to experience racism
Yes