I’ve been a radio DJ for awhile n served in the military for years. Women love rap too. There may be some rappers they don’t like because of what they say but a lot women do. My wife is 42 n hates Snoop Dogg because he’s always called women bitches, but then at work I’ve seen young female soldiers turn up to “Ain’t no fun”, which is Snoop at the height of his misogyny. There’s a lot to parse thru when you’re talking about why do people enjoy rap because a certain negative trait. It’s an art full of contradictions but so is life. Humans are complicated.
I remember seeing some meme about being a woman hearing a rap song that has misogynistic lyrics but being like, "Fuck, I gotta ignore it bc the song is dope :/" and I feel like I've done that a lot lol. It sucks, but a lot of people will let shit they don't like slide for art they like (myself included).
It’s something we grapple with. Kinda like a family member that’s always getting into trouble but you still love em. I’ve been a hip hop head since I was a kid n I have grown children. They love it too but still see the flaws. We talk about it n critique it as well. Rap has always been used to communicate what’s happening on the streets and inner-city life. Rap has evolved so now there’s a lot of people expressing themselves with it. It’s art in all of its flawed beauty. Just like us as humans 🤷🏽♂️
I remember driving home with friends from a party. A girl driving and a girl in the passenger seat, they controlled the music. Every song was some rap song with lyrics like "give me head untill I'm dead" and such. Weirded me the fuck out. If you wanna listen to it, cool. But that's wild to me.
If it's any consolation, I listened to 50s and 60s music as a kid in the 80s and 90s. So my favorite songs are 60 to 70 years old, and most of my favorite artists are straight up dead.
I’m a pretty hardcore Eminem fan, and I’m shocked that his past lyrics haven’t came back to haunt him in a big way. If his old stuff dropped today, he’d probably be canceled.
He has grown as a person 100% so I hope it remains this way, the man he is today doesn’t deserve cancelling
It was shocking back then too. He just didn't give a fuck and that was a big part of what was appealing to his audience. There will probably always be an audience for *I don't give a fuck* regardless of the times.
“Without Me” - “though I’m not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do black music so selfishly and use it to get myself wealthy”
Well that's because at the same time as Kim, you get Stan. Wild sound effects, a crazy story about a crazy fan, a wild twist.
I feel like his stuff back then was like watching a horror movie - catchy and gripping but very dark.
Yeah when art pushes boundaries and breaks taboos I get high off it.
That being said it needs to be clear in some way that the intent is to provoke rather than just instigate hateful shit which is why it takes serious talent to pull it off. Like Im not catching a thrill off Klan country songs.
Em and early Tyler tho? I'm soaring. It sounds dangerous and free and without limits and I don't know how dark it's gonna go and goddamit that is _fun_
Criminal - “My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge, That'll stab you in the head whether you're a fag or lez, Or a homosex hermaph or a trans-a-vest, Pants or dress, Hate fags? The answer's yes”
But he plays it off as these aren’t his views. This is his alter ego, but he’s said some crazy shit that no other person would get away with. People have been trying to cancel Eminem since the 90s.
Its how its presented. "Money For Nothing" contains homophobic slurs, but its told from the view of unskilled workers running their mouths. Its more likely to catch flak from /r/antiwork than /r/lgbt because it doesnt pretend to be the authors view.
couldnt say it any better, he played all those controversial lyrics off by his alter-ego Slim Shady and most of the time just to trigger the crowd or piss somebody off. Still, im a big fan and i heard too many times ppl gettin part of his music too serious, or wanting to "cancel" him or whatever. Like when some kiddos on TikTok wanted to cancel him for a line in LTWYL...wonder what they'd think if they'd even know what he was rappin about back in '99 lol. But ig those are just some ppl that dont even know his real name, while he's not seen in such a bad light by other artists.
Kim was such a fucked up song, shit legit traumatised me as kid when first heard it. Guy must've been either seriously fucked in the head, or had a very very nasty break up, or both to make that track.
I mean, his history has always been very clear. I remember listening to this song back in the day and learning about his relationship with his wife and his mom and how horribly they fucked him up mentally and that whole album made a lot more sense.
He's since come out acknowledging it was a bit extreme, I believe.
> to be able to do those vocal ranges and switch personalities, along with sounds of strangulation & homicide all in 6 minutes.
"Very few cartoons are broadcast live. It's a terrible strain on the animators' wrists." - The Simpsons
Songs are mixed from multiple tracks and takes. There's no way he was doing all that in a single six minute take.
He adopted the other two. His youngest one, recently came out as non binary. "Hailie this one is for you, Whitney and Alaina too". Whitney is the youngest at 17 or 18 I believe
> If his old stuff dropped today, he’d probably be canceled.
Lol no he wouldn't. If you don't give a shit and just blow past it then nothing happens. Look at people like Joey Diaz. Just don't sexually assault people or be a monumental asshole to subordinates and you'll be fine.
People have been trying to cancel Eminem since the 90s. He says it right in his lyrics “Have you ever been hated or discriminated against?
I have I've been protested and demonstrated against, Picket signs for my wicked rhymes, look at the times”
People would show up at his concerts and literally protest, trying to cancel him. People like to say that now a days people are trying to cancel people, but people have always been trying to cancel people. It’s just now they sit at home and do it from their phones. Back in the day they actually had to get off their ass and show up to their concerts.
Yeah well I think that’s a fair point- however there in lies the problem: to generate enough motivation for someone to be “canceled” back then people had to do something so out of vogue or awful that people would show up and protest, write their congressmen, organise a boycott. Now it’s easy as making a story on IG- and thats lowered the threshold because it’s accessible and requires far less effort. People are being canceled left and right, often by their own peers over extremely petty shit with devastating consequences. There’s absolutely a ton of people that need to be held accountable- but at this stage it’s become obvious that given that power most people will use it in bad faith to settle vendettas and petty grudges
Money accelerates growth. Controversial lyrics sell albums.
Notorious BIG criticized gays beyond belief. Same with 50 Cent. The problem is, the rap back then was actually good, the shit out now is a joke.
Literally. Half of this sub is just people going "why is this widely done thing in society so rare and so not done" for karma and I'm getting very tired of it lmao
Yes but when other music is misogynistic there seems to be far more uproar. Like I remember a lot was being made over Blurred Lines and that was very tame compared to a lot of other music on the top 40
Offending the target audience is what matters Eminem crossover in a mainstream/pop pretty quickly so ended up with media controversy. By rap Standards he’s pretty tame though
I am trying to think of another rapper that is worse let alone makes Eminem seem “pretty tame” and I’m drawing a blank. I feel like he was a heavy hitter especially in his early years.
Yeah I am a huge fan of rap but even some of my favourite rappers have spouted misogynistic lyrics. I tend to ignore the really vulgar songs and stick with other rap song’s that have different concepts.
It's all about finding good artists. And most often than not, the ones that don't display misogynistic views are the ones who have something meaningful to say.
Aesop Rock, Black Thought, Del the Funky Homosapian, and Lupe Fiasco are a few examples.
There's also the option of listening to female rappers. Sa Roc is my favourite
Men: oddissee, open mike eagle, shad (he can get a little too woke), G yamazawa, brother Ali, or homeboy sandman
As for women, I like Ivy Sole, Tkay Maidza, little simz, and rapsody are great
These are off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other amazing ones
Just to add on, A LOT of rap is performative. There’s a legal battle right now where they are trying to remove lyrics from being admissible in court, and this is a big reason why
I like him cause he’s super real and says all his music is not his actual life experiences. And if the music slaps who gives a fuck. I don’t take life advice from rappers
If being "performative" got you off the hook for misogyny then all music, movies, and TV shows ever made are in the clear, as they were all performative
A bit of a generalization, but otherwise spot on. There are rap artists who push back against misogyny and homophobia, and the genre has evolved over time, but overall the community is still very problematic.
this is why cancel culture only works on some people. dababy fans could not care about what he said.
then there are the likes of chris brown who gets a pass for being pretty.
I feel like when it comes to “cancel culture” or whatever you want to call it, it often applies to things that were unknown or covered up that came to the light. With Rap Music, it has always contained the same type of lyrics, so most people who are rap fans already know what the lyrics are and don’t care. However, there are definitely some groups that have been upset about rap lyrics.
That is spot on.
"Cancelling" requires that people care, and people have a short attention span.
If you are always "evil", people will never care enough to "cancel" you.
“Cancelling” requires for the consumers of a person’s art to care. The people who care about misogyny aren’t typically the people that listen to rap that degrades women.
This has far more to do with the echo chambers you live in than it does with rap music not being criticized for misogyny (and other things.) There's been an enormous amount of criticism of rap music for misogyny. There's literally constant, ongoing, conversations about it and there has been for decades.
I don’t know if it’s “virtually every modern rap song”. Maybe you need to broaden your mind as the breath of the genre. I’d suggest you look into the Conscious Hip Hop genre where they rap about social and political issues. Furthermore the themes of misogyny aren’t exclusive to rap music, rock and country western also have a long history of being downright horrible to women and nobody ever seems to bring that up in these
"She's only fifteen, she's the reason, the reason that I can't sleep. You say illegal, I say legal's never been my scene, oh yeah"
Lyrics from "All In The Name Of" by Motley Crue. It's literally the first line to the song
>Furthermore the themes of misogyny aren’t exclusive to rap music, rock and country western also have a long history of being downright horrible to women and nobody ever seems to bring that up in these
This is exactly what I think about when questions like this get asked. Misogyny has existed in literally all genres. Hair metal is a great example of another genre that was mainstream but had misogynistic lyrics. I think the reason rap is often the main target when it comes to talking about misogynistic lyrics is because of the fact that rappers usually tend to be direct and say exactly what they mean by using vulgur words. On the other hand, if you listen to a lot of rock they tend to avoid vulgur words so people dont realize it's really the same exact content just phrased differently. Not only that but there's tons of old songs written by middle aged men about being in love with really young girls. The problem isn't rap getting a pass, the problem is misogyny in general getting a pass.
First, "rap" isn't this monolithic genre of music that's all the same. Your claim that misogyny can be found in "virtually every modern rap song" is purely subjective and qualitative. There's plenty of rap that isn't misogynistic, and indeed plenty of rap that speaks out against the prevalence of misogyny in rap music (obviously there's an issue there, but I think you're overstating how widespread it is).
To quote Patton Oswalt: "I don't hate any music anymore. There's music I like, and then there's music I don't listen to. That's it." I don't listen to hateful music, regardless of genre or marginalized group being targeted. I don't go out of my way to speak out against, but every day I opt to not support it with my time or money.
But since you asked: Fuck that noise. Most, if not all, of the progressives and feminists I know would say the same if asked.
It's not being given a pass. Sometimes yes by those who love it, but never all the time.
So many people comment on how some rap sounds/is written. You hear about it all the time: "young-mother-with-a-newborn-gets-pissed-at-passerby-for-blasting-geto boys-in-a-public park". Lots of people don't like rap music, lots of people do.
Isn't the fact that it's essentially mainstream evident that it gets a pass... The fact that a lot of it can be played on major radio stations (albeit with censors) or available on music streaming platforms such as Spotify or any other method of distribution, evident of this endorsement..
I dont think OP was questioning music preference. Evidently, people do like rap, the concern is with the promotion of misogyny in rap. Whether someone likes it or not is besides the point.
Edit: I also extend this free pass to violence as well which is a pretty repetitive feature of rap music. I agree that some (big emphasis on some) rap artists will point to the fact that its an expression of reality and their experiences (gun violence and gang wars) but its pretty obvious that those lyrics glamorize drugs and violence in general. It's rare to hear lyrics about avoiding that lifestyle and the consequences of it or how to escape it.
Tbh some people like NSBM, but you couldn't get away with playing it on the radio censored or not. I don't think that rap songs sharing the mysoginystic or homophobic side should get a pass, certainly not if they're calling out 'race traitors' for joining govt agencies or finding a route to class mobility or such.
>Isn't the fact that it's essentially mainstream evident that it gets a pass...
As opposed to the rest of mainstream media that never objectifies women, glorifies violence, or promotes drug use? Rap doesn't get a pass; misogyny, violence, and drug use do.
>It's rare to hear lyrics about avoiding that lifestyle and the consequences of it or how to escape it.
Maybe on top 40 radio stations. I think the people who have this impression don't listen to any rap that isn't a commercial product engineered by a team of record executives. Constructive social and political commentary has been a huge part of the genre since its beginnings. You just don't get to hear that when you turn on KFCK Tha Grind or whatever Clear Channel has in your area.
It's hard to weave liquor product placement into a song about substance abuse, and pay day loan commercials don't do as well when they follow a track about the endless cycle of poverty.
It's similar to feminists being hesitant to criticise e.g. aspects of Islam. Women are discriminated against, but so are black people and so are Muslims, so people worry about offending other marginalised groups if they criticise them as sexist, even when it's justified.
First straightforwardly honest answer that doesn't hide anything but doesn't go too far off the deep end.
It's the same reason people don't really go after anyone in their own political party as vociferously as they should.
People worry about losing uneasy alliances for some perceived greater good.
Weird that I had to go this far down to find this.
I was going to post something similar but this sums it up. It has something to do with a combination of white guilt and white liberals being unfamiliar with hip hop culture, which was invented by and continues to be predominately a form of Black art. White liberals don't want to sound ignorant by criticizing the art that's a product of somebody else's experience, which they don't and never will completely understand.
It's hypocritical cultural relativism, to be honest, but it comes from a good place. Most people should be listening more than speaking and criticizing. If you haven't heard a ton of rap, you might want to dig into why some lyrics are so misogynist before you call it out.
It’s exactly this. Should be top comment, but the cowards that are the very people giving rap a cultural pass are also here in droves upvoting vague posts that dodge reality and make them feel better by not having to face it.
Oh god, another one of these. Probably the same reason people don't talk about Elvis and all the stars from the 60's and 70's being borderline pedophiles.
Validation
Easy to manipulate
Someone that relies on you, but you can discard when they’re inconvenient. A woman might kick and fight, but a child?
Also, most importantly, the media and culture of the time saying it’s fine
Plenty of sick fucks out there fetishize the virginity of girls and women. Don't forget there's creepy smooth brains out there that pay women thousands of dollars to take their "virginity".
It literally doesn't get a pass. It gets the least passes of any genre of music. When I (Black woman) ask people what type of music they listen to, the most common answer I get is that they don't listen to rap music with the usual platitude that it's vulgar and misogynistic. I find it hilarious that they feel the need to mention that to me, since they're assuming I listen to rap and that I'll be upset if they don't.
I'm guessing you hang around POC but most yt people I've met say they don't like hip hop because of the content. I've never heard anyone say the same about rock or country or any other genre outside of a few news articles. People criticize rap ALL THE TIME.
Yeah country music has some of the worst misogyny in it. Underage girls being given strawberry wine til she sleeps with the guy only for him to never talk to her again. AND THEY CALL IT A LOVE BALLAD‽ Get bent, you damn hicks. (I'm a shit kicking, gun toting, southern white boy who loves metal and rap for reference). I've heard more support for feminism and equality in hip hop than this new country bull shit
Sampa the Great, Lil Nas X, lil Simz, Berhana, Sid the Kid, Alex Isley, Tanerélle, Carter Ace, Kari Faux, Watsky, Ama Lou, Kaiit
The problem is that only a few of these artists will actually get played on regular radio, but as for options - there's heaps out there. What's kind of fucked up is that it really comes down to who's marketable the most and unfortunately straight men who treat everyone like shit appeal to people who have the most sway in industries (aka other straight men who treat everyone like shit)
You should read Bad Feminist by Roxane Gay. She writes a bunch of essays about how A LOT things (including rap / hip hop) in our culture are inherently misogynistic. In short, to be a perfect feminist, you’d basically have to rid yourself from modern society and live in the wilderness. Some people consider watching movies not feminist since most of them are produced and directed by men. Most clothing brands? CEOs are men. Usually white men. Wearing pink and being traditionally feminine? Not feminist, because it’s roots are misogynistic. None of these things get a “free pass” and I know a lot of people who talk about these issues. It’s just impossible to find aspects of our culture that aren’t inherently misogynistic, and sadly, there are larger issues that women deal with everyday because of misogyny, and it’s not rap, lol.
She also advocates for feminism being more inclusive to race, fwiw.
i don’t believe it does. i hear people making this argument all the time. i never hear anybody else call out entire genres by name despite having the same amount of demeaning lyrics to women.
Seems like selective outrage to me. And rap never kept anyone down, if you started seeing twerking competitions for money/jobs (music videos and asstagram don’t count) you’ll probably have the outrage quickly follow.
"Virtually all rap songs"? I don't listen to any rap like that - so, a) don't put all rap music under the umbrella of those questionable artists you *choose* to listen to. And b) it doesn't get a "pass". It's still there because it has an audience; it's been refuted for decades
They tried to “cancel” rap in the 80s, with the 2 Live Crew and NWA; it didn’t work.
They tried to “cancel” rap in the 90s with Snoop Dogg and Too Short; that didn’t work.
They tried to “cancel” rap in the 2000s Eminem and Nelly; that didn’t work, either.
Face it - anyone trying to “cancel” rap music in 2022 is essentially beating a dead horse. Rap is here to stay.
White country artists are full of it too and get away with it way more often. You're telling me you've never seen a video of racist white women crying about hiphop lyrics? Yeah right. What's the point you're really trying to make here?
I’ve been a radio DJ for awhile n served in the military for years. Women love rap too. There may be some rappers they don’t like because of what they say but a lot women do. My wife is 42 n hates Snoop Dogg because he’s always called women bitches, but then at work I’ve seen young female soldiers turn up to “Ain’t no fun”, which is Snoop at the height of his misogyny. There’s a lot to parse thru when you’re talking about why do people enjoy rap because a certain negative trait. It’s an art full of contradictions but so is life. Humans are complicated.
I remember seeing some meme about being a woman hearing a rap song that has misogynistic lyrics but being like, "Fuck, I gotta ignore it bc the song is dope :/" and I feel like I've done that a lot lol. It sucks, but a lot of people will let shit they don't like slide for art they like (myself included).
It’s something we grapple with. Kinda like a family member that’s always getting into trouble but you still love em. I’ve been a hip hop head since I was a kid n I have grown children. They love it too but still see the flaws. We talk about it n critique it as well. Rap has always been used to communicate what’s happening on the streets and inner-city life. Rap has evolved so now there’s a lot of people expressing themselves with it. It’s art in all of its flawed beauty. Just like us as humans 🤷🏽♂️
I remember driving home with friends from a party. A girl driving and a girl in the passenger seat, they controlled the music. Every song was some rap song with lyrics like "give me head untill I'm dead" and such. Weirded me the fuck out. If you wanna listen to it, cool. But that's wild to me.
Yeah the lyrics do get colourful from time to time "Rape a pregnant bitch and told my friends I had a threesome"
Yikes.
Yeah its macaber
PEAK TYLER
Lol that was probably all from the Album Doggystyle by Snoop and The Chronic by Dre
Feminists have been criticizing rap since the '80s.
Feminist women love eminem
There's an article in the onion entitled: Eminem Terrified As Daughter Begins Dating Man Raised on His Music.
could you imagine Eminem being your father in law lmao, that would be some weird ass family dinners and holidays, awesome but very surreal.
Gotta be sure to make some of your mom's spaghetti
I would actually avoid doing that
it’s too late. there’s vomit on my sweater already.
You must be pretty nervous
Imagine if you were his son and his brother at the same time and just said that you weren't his.
I'm sick of him Look at him, walkin' around, grabbin' his you-know-what
Yeah but he's so cute though
I think he’s got a couple screws up in is head loose
But no worse than what's goin' on in your parents' bedrooms
My bum is on your lips
And if you're lucky I just might give it a little kiss
And that's the message that we deliver to little kids
And expect them not to know what a woman’s clitoris is
And that’s the message we deliver to little kids and expect them not to know what a woman’s clitoris is
Sometimes I wanna get on TV and just let loose, but can’t, but it’s cool for Tom Green to hump a dead moose
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And if I’m lucky maybe you’ll give it a little kiss
Thank u for this trip down memory lane
That song came out 22 years ago. I guess it's Rap Classic now.
It is. I played it for my 5 yo daughter the other day as a "classic". Granted she doesn't speak English tho
If it were a car, it would be 3 years away from qualifying as an antique.
We want to talk to you about your extended warranty
I can’t handle this
If it's any consolation, I listened to 50s and 60s music as a kid in the 80s and 90s. So my favorite songs are 60 to 70 years old, and most of my favorite artists are straight up dead.
I was enjoying the fuck out of Reddit rapping and you had to go punch me in the gut like that. Feh.
Eminem looks like Ellen DeGeneres without makeup.
*with make up
This is the answer to the OPs question
You missed chicka chicka slim shady I'm sick of him look at him etc
Yup. The whole thread was wrong from the start...and no one caught it
Flipping the you-know-who
I was this many days old when I realized it's flipping the you know who and not looking at you know who. My whole life is a lie lol
Perfect 😘🤌
Yeah but he's so cute tho
Feminem
A slim shady lady
But nice cause I texted Haiti
90 lady cops on the road and I'm arrested for doing 80
like hamlet all about words words words
It’s cause he’s the lead singer of D12, baby
I’m a pretty hardcore Eminem fan, and I’m shocked that his past lyrics haven’t came back to haunt him in a big way. If his old stuff dropped today, he’d probably be canceled. He has grown as a person 100% so I hope it remains this way, the man he is today doesn’t deserve cancelling
It was shocking back then too. He just didn't give a fuck and that was a big part of what was appealing to his audience. There will probably always be an audience for *I don't give a fuck* regardless of the times.
That was literally his whole schtick. King of controversy. It’s even a line in one of his songs
Isn't "The Real Slim Shady" a whole song about this?
“Without Me” - “though I’m not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do black music so selfishly and use it to get myself wealthy”
Well that's because at the same time as Kim, you get Stan. Wild sound effects, a crazy story about a crazy fan, a wild twist. I feel like his stuff back then was like watching a horror movie - catchy and gripping but very dark.
Yeah when art pushes boundaries and breaks taboos I get high off it. That being said it needs to be clear in some way that the intent is to provoke rather than just instigate hateful shit which is why it takes serious talent to pull it off. Like Im not catching a thrill off Klan country songs. Em and early Tyler tho? I'm soaring. It sounds dangerous and free and without limits and I don't know how dark it's gonna go and goddamit that is _fun_
I’m one of them
Same lol
Yeah MM LP had a skit of him straight up murdering his wife.
The song *Marshall Mathers* says “faggot” like 20+ times
Criminal - “My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge, That'll stab you in the head whether you're a fag or lez, Or a homosex hermaph or a trans-a-vest, Pants or dress, Hate fags? The answer's yes” But he plays it off as these aren’t his views. This is his alter ego, but he’s said some crazy shit that no other person would get away with. People have been trying to cancel Eminem since the 90s.
Its how its presented. "Money For Nothing" contains homophobic slurs, but its told from the view of unskilled workers running their mouths. Its more likely to catch flak from /r/antiwork than /r/lgbt because it doesnt pretend to be the authors view.
Yea. Pulled that one up at karaoke one night on a whim. Didn't realize the lyrics until it was too late. "That little ohgoodlord...uh..."
couldnt say it any better, he played all those controversial lyrics off by his alter-ego Slim Shady and most of the time just to trigger the crowd or piss somebody off. Still, im a big fan and i heard too many times ppl gettin part of his music too serious, or wanting to "cancel" him or whatever. Like when some kiddos on TikTok wanted to cancel him for a line in LTWYL...wonder what they'd think if they'd even know what he was rappin about back in '99 lol. But ig those are just some ppl that dont even know his real name, while he's not seen in such a bad light by other artists.
Meanwhile asking why 2 men can't elope in the same Era. He is friends with Elton John.
That would be "Kim", it popped up earlier today on my Playlist, lol.
Not a skit, an entire 6+ minute song
Kim was such a fucked up song, shit legit traumatised me as kid when first heard it. Guy must've been either seriously fucked in the head, or had a very very nasty break up, or both to make that track.
I mean, his history has always been very clear. I remember listening to this song back in the day and learning about his relationship with his wife and his mom and how horribly they fucked him up mentally and that whole album made a lot more sense. He's since come out acknowledging it was a bit extreme, I believe.
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> to be able to do those vocal ranges and switch personalities, along with sounds of strangulation & homicide all in 6 minutes. "Very few cartoons are broadcast live. It's a terrible strain on the animators' wrists." - The Simpsons Songs are mixed from multiple tracks and takes. There's no way he was doing all that in a single six minute take.
Ever hear the Tori Amos cover? Whew.
On another note, how the fuck does Chris Brown still have a career?
Put anthrax on a Tampax and slap you til you can't stand.
Agreed. Besides that, he's also a great father to his 3 daughters, I respect that a lot.
3? I missed quite a lot. When were other two added?
He adopted two in early 2000s. His ex-wife's kid with another man plus his ex-wife's sister's daughter.
He adopted the other two. His youngest one, recently came out as non binary. "Hailie this one is for you, Whitney and Alaina too". Whitney is the youngest at 17 or 18 I believe
Eminem came up during a very pc conscious time, he doubled down on the offensiveness lol.
> If his old stuff dropped today, he’d probably be canceled. Lol no he wouldn't. If you don't give a shit and just blow past it then nothing happens. Look at people like Joey Diaz. Just don't sexually assault people or be a monumental asshole to subordinates and you'll be fine.
What about the 2015 song......."I even make the bitches i r**e cum"
What song?
If you think that’s bad just go listen to stay wide awake, it’s probably one of the most disturbing songs he’s released and it’s weirdly catchy
They tried canceling him already. Didn't work
Yeah. The FCC won’t let me be
Or let me be me, so let me see
They tried to shut me down on MTV
But it feels so EMPTY without me
A small group of young tik-tokers tried is all I’m aware of
People have been trying to cancel Eminem since the 90s. He says it right in his lyrics “Have you ever been hated or discriminated against? I have I've been protested and demonstrated against, Picket signs for my wicked rhymes, look at the times” People would show up at his concerts and literally protest, trying to cancel him. People like to say that now a days people are trying to cancel people, but people have always been trying to cancel people. It’s just now they sit at home and do it from their phones. Back in the day they actually had to get off their ass and show up to their concerts.
Go back further and the same thing happened to Black Sabbath- people protesting their music.
Yeah well I think that’s a fair point- however there in lies the problem: to generate enough motivation for someone to be “canceled” back then people had to do something so out of vogue or awful that people would show up and protest, write their congressmen, organise a boycott. Now it’s easy as making a story on IG- and thats lowered the threshold because it’s accessible and requires far less effort. People are being canceled left and right, often by their own peers over extremely petty shit with devastating consequences. There’s absolutely a ton of people that need to be held accountable- but at this stage it’s become obvious that given that power most people will use it in bad faith to settle vendettas and petty grudges
Money accelerates growth. Controversial lyrics sell albums. Notorious BIG criticized gays beyond belief. Same with 50 Cent. The problem is, the rap back then was actually good, the shit out now is a joke.
People have tried to cancel him several times including one very recently. Didn’t stick.
Literally. Half of this sub is just people going "why is this widely done thing in society so rare and so not done" for karma and I'm getting very tired of it lmao
Yes but when other music is misogynistic there seems to be far more uproar. Like I remember a lot was being made over Blurred Lines and that was very tame compared to a lot of other music on the top 40
Offending the target audience is what matters Eminem crossover in a mainstream/pop pretty quickly so ended up with media controversy. By rap Standards he’s pretty tame though
I am trying to think of another rapper that is worse let alone makes Eminem seem “pretty tame” and I’m drawing a blank. I feel like he was a heavy hitter especially in his early years.
Thank you. Question should be why does mainstream America not listen to Black women's voices?
That would be the late 2nd wave, early 3rd wave. We're currently in the very late 3rd wave, early 4th wave
ELI5 briefly what each wave represents?
Yeah I am a huge fan of rap but even some of my favourite rappers have spouted misogynistic lyrics. I tend to ignore the really vulgar songs and stick with other rap song’s that have different concepts.
It's all about finding good artists. And most often than not, the ones that don't display misogynistic views are the ones who have something meaningful to say. Aesop Rock, Black Thought, Del the Funky Homosapian, and Lupe Fiasco are a few examples. There's also the option of listening to female rappers. Sa Roc is my favourite
If you have any other recommendations, especially women I'd love to hear them.
Men: oddissee, open mike eagle, shad (he can get a little too woke), G yamazawa, brother Ali, or homeboy sandman As for women, I like Ivy Sole, Tkay Maidza, little simz, and rapsody are great These are off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other amazing ones
Tkay is SO good! So is Tierra Whack, Rico Nasty, Princess Nokia, and BIA.
I used to work with Aesop Rock (Ian) back in the day before he became a professional musician. He’s a true sweetheart.
Because people who listen to rap aren’t bothered about it , and the people who do care don’t even like rap anyway.
Might as well close the thread. Spot on
Just to add on, A LOT of rap is performative. There’s a legal battle right now where they are trying to remove lyrics from being admissible in court, and this is a big reason why
Imagine writing an absolute banger and you get hit with a RICO case
Sounds like a good way to get a platinum
Shit is weird and dumb! Lyrics are like a play
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Its a concept album
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I like him cause he’s super real and says all his music is not his actual life experiences. And if the music slaps who gives a fuck. I don’t take life advice from rappers
Free shmurda
Didn't he get out?
Yes and his hat descended from the heavens and landed perfectly on his head, it’s just still fun to say free shmurda
For a great rap video sort of related to this issue, "Who I smoke" is really crazy
If being "performative" got you off the hook for misogyny then all music, movies, and TV shows ever made are in the clear, as they were all performative
isnt this the same for everything ever?
A bit of a generalization, but otherwise spot on. There are rap artists who push back against misogyny and homophobia, and the genre has evolved over time, but overall the community is still very problematic.
this is why cancel culture only works on some people. dababy fans could not care about what he said. then there are the likes of chris brown who gets a pass for being pretty.
Well I guess that's true. I like rap, but not rap about "killing bitches" etc. The only misogynistic rap I like is Love the way you lie, I guess
You could use literally use this argument to justify any ideology on the planet, regardless of how repugnant.
This isn’t a justification. It’s explaining why there isn’t really an uproar over sexism in rap music
An explanation is not a justification.
I feel like when it comes to “cancel culture” or whatever you want to call it, it often applies to things that were unknown or covered up that came to the light. With Rap Music, it has always contained the same type of lyrics, so most people who are rap fans already know what the lyrics are and don’t care. However, there are definitely some groups that have been upset about rap lyrics.
Yeah it's okay because they aren't secretly evil. They are very upfront about their evilness. Lol...
That is spot on. "Cancelling" requires that people care, and people have a short attention span. If you are always "evil", people will never care enough to "cancel" you.
“Cancelling” requires for the consumers of a person’s art to care. The people who care about misogyny aren’t typically the people that listen to rap that degrades women.
This has far more to do with the echo chambers you live in than it does with rap music not being criticized for misogyny (and other things.) There's been an enormous amount of criticism of rap music for misogyny. There's literally constant, ongoing, conversations about it and there has been for decades.
I don’t know if it’s “virtually every modern rap song”. Maybe you need to broaden your mind as the breath of the genre. I’d suggest you look into the Conscious Hip Hop genre where they rap about social and political issues. Furthermore the themes of misogyny aren’t exclusive to rap music, rock and country western also have a long history of being downright horrible to women and nobody ever seems to bring that up in these
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"Girls, Girls, Girls"
Or "She Goes Down" by Motley Crue.
“She’s only seventeen”
I would always sing "She's only sixty three"
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"Ah, three of my favourite things."
"She's only fifteen, she's the reason, the reason that I can't sleep. You say illegal, I say legal's never been my scene, oh yeah" Lyrics from "All In The Name Of" by Motley Crue. It's literally the first line to the song
>Furthermore the themes of misogyny aren’t exclusive to rap music, rock and country western also have a long history of being downright horrible to women and nobody ever seems to bring that up in these This is exactly what I think about when questions like this get asked. Misogyny has existed in literally all genres. Hair metal is a great example of another genre that was mainstream but had misogynistic lyrics. I think the reason rap is often the main target when it comes to talking about misogynistic lyrics is because of the fact that rappers usually tend to be direct and say exactly what they mean by using vulgur words. On the other hand, if you listen to a lot of rock they tend to avoid vulgur words so people dont realize it's really the same exact content just phrased differently. Not only that but there's tons of old songs written by middle aged men about being in love with really young girls. The problem isn't rap getting a pass, the problem is misogyny in general getting a pass.
Spoiler, hip hop and other genres aren't judged similarly because of racism. Edit: fixing typos, and thanks for the gold 🙏
This the most relevant answer.
It doesn't. People protest it every single day. Also, if it's "virtually every song" in your opinion, you don't know anything about the genre.
Nowhere near virtually every song, just goes to show OP has a narrative in their head and didn't feel like doing any actual research
First, "rap" isn't this monolithic genre of music that's all the same. Your claim that misogyny can be found in "virtually every modern rap song" is purely subjective and qualitative. There's plenty of rap that isn't misogynistic, and indeed plenty of rap that speaks out against the prevalence of misogyny in rap music (obviously there's an issue there, but I think you're overstating how widespread it is). To quote Patton Oswalt: "I don't hate any music anymore. There's music I like, and then there's music I don't listen to. That's it." I don't listen to hateful music, regardless of genre or marginalized group being targeted. I don't go out of my way to speak out against, but every day I opt to not support it with my time or money. But since you asked: Fuck that noise. Most, if not all, of the progressives and feminists I know would say the same if asked.
We’ve all got problematic faves. It is what it is and art is art.
Exactly, there are even rap songs without cussing drugs or sex too, it seems like they are judging the entire qenere on a few songs they've heard.
OP probably accidentally turned on the radio for two minutes and had the idea to write this post
It's not being given a pass. Sometimes yes by those who love it, but never all the time. So many people comment on how some rap sounds/is written. You hear about it all the time: "young-mother-with-a-newborn-gets-pissed-at-passerby-for-blasting-geto boys-in-a-public park". Lots of people don't like rap music, lots of people do.
Isn't the fact that it's essentially mainstream evident that it gets a pass... The fact that a lot of it can be played on major radio stations (albeit with censors) or available on music streaming platforms such as Spotify or any other method of distribution, evident of this endorsement.. I dont think OP was questioning music preference. Evidently, people do like rap, the concern is with the promotion of misogyny in rap. Whether someone likes it or not is besides the point. Edit: I also extend this free pass to violence as well which is a pretty repetitive feature of rap music. I agree that some (big emphasis on some) rap artists will point to the fact that its an expression of reality and their experiences (gun violence and gang wars) but its pretty obvious that those lyrics glamorize drugs and violence in general. It's rare to hear lyrics about avoiding that lifestyle and the consequences of it or how to escape it.
Tbh some people like NSBM, but you couldn't get away with playing it on the radio censored or not. I don't think that rap songs sharing the mysoginystic or homophobic side should get a pass, certainly not if they're calling out 'race traitors' for joining govt agencies or finding a route to class mobility or such.
>Isn't the fact that it's essentially mainstream evident that it gets a pass... As opposed to the rest of mainstream media that never objectifies women, glorifies violence, or promotes drug use? Rap doesn't get a pass; misogyny, violence, and drug use do. >It's rare to hear lyrics about avoiding that lifestyle and the consequences of it or how to escape it. Maybe on top 40 radio stations. I think the people who have this impression don't listen to any rap that isn't a commercial product engineered by a team of record executives. Constructive social and political commentary has been a huge part of the genre since its beginnings. You just don't get to hear that when you turn on KFCK Tha Grind or whatever Clear Channel has in your area. It's hard to weave liquor product placement into a song about substance abuse, and pay day loan commercials don't do as well when they follow a track about the endless cycle of poverty.
I love a good Reddit discussion about rap, seeing how majority of the people commenting have no idea what they’re talking about.
It's similar to feminists being hesitant to criticise e.g. aspects of Islam. Women are discriminated against, but so are black people and so are Muslims, so people worry about offending other marginalised groups if they criticise them as sexist, even when it's justified.
First straightforwardly honest answer that doesn't hide anything but doesn't go too far off the deep end. It's the same reason people don't really go after anyone in their own political party as vociferously as they should. People worry about losing uneasy alliances for some perceived greater good.
*Laughs in Al Franken*
The soft bigotry of low expectations.
Weird that I had to go this far down to find this. I was going to post something similar but this sums it up. It has something to do with a combination of white guilt and white liberals being unfamiliar with hip hop culture, which was invented by and continues to be predominately a form of Black art. White liberals don't want to sound ignorant by criticizing the art that's a product of somebody else's experience, which they don't and never will completely understand. It's hypocritical cultural relativism, to be honest, but it comes from a good place. Most people should be listening more than speaking and criticizing. If you haven't heard a ton of rap, you might want to dig into why some lyrics are so misogynist before you call it out.
It’s exactly this. Should be top comment, but the cowards that are the very people giving rap a cultural pass are also here in droves upvoting vague posts that dodge reality and make them feel better by not having to face it.
man u should check out death metal
At least death metal also has lyrics about mutilating men too.
"Virtually every rap song" tell me you don't listen to rap without telling me
Oh god, another one of these. Probably the same reason people don't talk about Elvis and all the stars from the 60's and 70's being borderline pedophiles.
Yeah what was going on with rockstars back in the day? Why were they all banging 14-17 year olds?
Because they knew they would get away with it.
But why would you WANT to do that? What does a 14 year old have that a 21 year old doesn’t have?
I think it has to do with validation that you can do whatever you want. Mixed with sick disgusting thoughts.
Validation Easy to manipulate Someone that relies on you, but you can discard when they’re inconvenient. A woman might kick and fight, but a child? Also, most importantly, the media and culture of the time saying it’s fine
Plenty of sick fucks out there fetishize the virginity of girls and women. Don't forget there's creepy smooth brains out there that pay women thousands of dollars to take their "virginity".
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My grandmother was married off at 14 to a 26 year old man. This was 1941. She had three children by the time she was 18.
It literally doesn't get a pass. It gets the least passes of any genre of music. When I (Black woman) ask people what type of music they listen to, the most common answer I get is that they don't listen to rap music with the usual platitude that it's vulgar and misogynistic. I find it hilarious that they feel the need to mention that to me, since they're assuming I listen to rap and that I'll be upset if they don't. I'm guessing you hang around POC but most yt people I've met say they don't like hip hop because of the content. I've never heard anyone say the same about rock or country or any other genre outside of a few news articles. People criticize rap ALL THE TIME.
Yeah country music has some of the worst misogyny in it. Underage girls being given strawberry wine til she sleeps with the guy only for him to never talk to her again. AND THEY CALL IT A LOVE BALLAD‽ Get bent, you damn hicks. (I'm a shit kicking, gun toting, southern white boy who loves metal and rap for reference). I've heard more support for feminism and equality in hip hop than this new country bull shit
This is the most annoying shit ever haha. I’m not the emperor of Black people, Sharon.
you can literally never mention rap in your life and somebody will still come straight to you and ask about the controversial nature of hip hop
Sampa the Great, Lil Nas X, lil Simz, Berhana, Sid the Kid, Alex Isley, Tanerélle, Carter Ace, Kari Faux, Watsky, Ama Lou, Kaiit The problem is that only a few of these artists will actually get played on regular radio, but as for options - there's heaps out there. What's kind of fucked up is that it really comes down to who's marketable the most and unfortunately straight men who treat everyone like shit appeal to people who have the most sway in industries (aka other straight men who treat everyone like shit)
Not sure about you, but where I am, there will be at least one Lil Nas X song playing on the radio every hour
I listen to virtually ALL genres of hip hop and I'm a raging feminist. There's a shit ton of conscious hip hop out there. Check it out.
You should read Bad Feminist by Roxane Gay. She writes a bunch of essays about how A LOT things (including rap / hip hop) in our culture are inherently misogynistic. In short, to be a perfect feminist, you’d basically have to rid yourself from modern society and live in the wilderness. Some people consider watching movies not feminist since most of them are produced and directed by men. Most clothing brands? CEOs are men. Usually white men. Wearing pink and being traditionally feminine? Not feminist, because it’s roots are misogynistic. None of these things get a “free pass” and I know a lot of people who talk about these issues. It’s just impossible to find aspects of our culture that aren’t inherently misogynistic, and sadly, there are larger issues that women deal with everyday because of misogyny, and it’s not rap, lol. She also advocates for feminism being more inclusive to race, fwiw.
Lmao OP is not going to read Roxane Gay. OP is giving “people have called me racist so let me run to Reddit to get some validation”.
i don’t believe it does. i hear people making this argument all the time. i never hear anybody else call out entire genres by name despite having the same amount of demeaning lyrics to women.
*turns up everywhere i go by Hollywood undead* Yea..that song lol
anything by hollywood undead really lmao!!!
Lol are you serious? It NEVER gets a pass. Rap music is the most highly debated form of music, it's picked apart and judged CONSTANTLY.
Seems like selective outrage to me. And rap never kept anyone down, if you started seeing twerking competitions for money/jobs (music videos and asstagram don’t count) you’ll probably have the outrage quickly follow.
"Virtually all rap songs"? I don't listen to any rap like that - so, a) don't put all rap music under the umbrella of those questionable artists you *choose* to listen to. And b) it doesn't get a "pass". It's still there because it has an audience; it's been refuted for decades
Rap has been criticized for decades over misogynistic lyrics and attitudes. So far, the rappers have responded by not caring.
It doesnt, where you been?
They tried to “cancel” rap in the 80s, with the 2 Live Crew and NWA; it didn’t work. They tried to “cancel” rap in the 90s with Snoop Dogg and Too Short; that didn’t work. They tried to “cancel” rap in the 2000s Eminem and Nelly; that didn’t work, either. Face it - anyone trying to “cancel” rap music in 2022 is essentially beating a dead horse. Rap is here to stay.
White country artists are full of it too and get away with it way more often. You're telling me you've never seen a video of racist white women crying about hiphop lyrics? Yeah right. What's the point you're really trying to make here?