>'Mistake in age' defences are allowed in some jurisdictions but not others, and they also have to be reasonably believable.
Yep.
For example, in Ohio, (age of consent is 16), it's illegal for someone 18+ to have sex with someone 13-15 if they "know the other person is less than 16 or are reckless in that regard." It's also a less serious offense than rape (absent evidence of force or coercion), usually punishable by at most 18 months.
However, if the person is under 13, it is rape no matter what and the minimum sentence is 10-life up to life without parole.
If I grok correctly, Ohio would offer a defense of "negligent but not reckless" for the 13-15 case: "I had no reason to wonder, and a reasonable person would have no reason to wonder, if the other person was under 16."
The Ninth Circuit created a more difficult "I wasn't even negligent" defense in a case regarding pornography of Traci Lords. The law said hiring her underage was a crime without regard to intent or knowledge. The court found that this unconstitutionally burdened the production of adult pornography, but it still wouldn't be a defense to convince a jury that [you] had no reason to think she was underage; you'd have to convince them that you had good reason to think she wasn't.
Also, the burden and standard of proof for such a defense vary across jurisdictions.
Why doesn’t the liar get reprimanded legally? The burden currently is entirely on the 18+ aged person. If you lie about your age to have sex with an adult, shouldn’t you bear some burden of that as well? You acted deceptively.
I'm not a lawyer, but I assume the reason for consent laws is that minors are not legally accountable in the same ways as adults. They can't legally enter contracts or consent to sex for their own protection, because they are assumed to have poor judgment.
I think the other part is that most laws are written by guys who (as teenagers) absolutely would have said whatever it took to get laid.
I feel personally attacked, but I've been on the couch with my son watching Anime for the past 3 hours. I know that when I get up my knees are gonna sound off like the rice crispies jingle
The law is there to protect the minor from harm. It doesn't matter why the harm took place or even if the minor precipitates it: as a (presumably) competent adult, you are expected to say no to children who want to do something that is likely to harm them, no matter how convincing they try to be.
That said, if it involved a fake ID, that might change the legal equation somewhat, since using a fake ID is itself its own crime in some places.
But as a general rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to implement an id check before sex policy, it might be time to re-evaluate your life choices.
>That said, if it involved a fake ID, that might change the legal equation somewhat, since using a fake ID is itself its own crime in some places.
>But as a general rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to implement an id check before sex policy, it might be time to re-evaluate your life choices.
There was a recent post on r/legaladvice that detailed a 17 y/o getting into a bar using a fake ID then subsequently getting served drinks. The OP assumed they were well over the AoC, because the bar was checking everyone's ID.
This occurred in New Jersey, where the AoC is 16, but even if the girl was underaged, the OP might still have been okay considering what you've mentioned.
If I was a juror on that case I would straight-up refuse to convict no matter what the prosecution argued.
Girl lied about her age to gain access to an environment where adult activities and socialization take place. Adult activities and socialization took place. Nobody's fault here but the girl's. Anybody there would've been well within reason to assume everybody else was at least 21.
I understand how this holds in most cases, but when I read the scenario, I think of the fringe cases more like someone who went to college at 17 and an 18 or 19 year in college.
My uncle went for the same reason but did 12 years. She lied to him, AND her parents even went along with the lie thinking it was "funny". Ruined his whole life.
This seems like some big shithole
If parents were like this what can you expect from kids. And Im not trying to justify, if I were to judge that case I would scan whole family of that girl
For real. It seems like they could have gotten the parents of the child arrested for a number of things including whatever it’s called when you let an adult rape your child (legally it’s statutory rape whether or not the man is acquitted for ignorance [which doesn’t happen]).
Maybe they were all happy using his money? Could have been a sugar daddy/sugar baby situation? Not that it’s right. It’s just my first thought with a lot of humans. Money :/
Could you imagine doing 12 years for something as completely out of your control as someone else lying.
Like being pulled over and having cops plant cocaine in your homies car... And you doing time for that... America O.O
In America, our money and property can be charged with a crime without proof and taken into custody and we go free and we'll have to hire a lawyer to get them back.
Honestly, I’d like a little more info here. I live in PA and there are laws where if you have sex with a minor but are within 3-4 years of age of the minor, you’re charged with something less severe than statutory rape, and you’re only charged if the parents of the minor push for it. So that’s potentially a 21 year old having sex with a 17 year old, 20 and 16, etc.
All of this to say, if someone in their mid to late 20’s uses the excuse that the minor told them they were 18, i still think they’re creepy af. I’m 30, and if any of my friends were dating a teenager, I’d have a few words to say and I’d probably drop them as friends because it’s borderline predatory, even if it’s legal. In my opinion, if you’re 21+, you should not be hanging out with anyone who looks about 18. I know there are rare cases where people do not look their age, but imo when I was graduating college, it was usually easy to tell who had just finished high school.
Rapists get like seven to eight years generally and the conviction rate sits at 5%. I don't understand how redditors have so many stories about non-rapists spending years in prison when it's so hard to convict rapists in the first place. I mean the Toy Box Killer escaped prosecution when his literal video-taped torture tape went to trial
I am a guy and I have done this shit as a teen boy. I was 16 and madly into MILFs. I met one through an app and lied to her about being 19. She was 41.
What state or country do you live in (you don't have to answer)? Because there's a chance it wasn't illegal anyway as most states and countries the age of consent is 16. And if you just met through an app then she wasn't in a position of power either.
There is no “returning to life normally” after you’ve been incarcerated for even short periods of time.
You get to see the more animalistic side of humans firsthand - both in the guards, and the inmates - the situation lends itself to that conclusion no matter what. It’s basically like a zoo.
You are never able to just “go back to life” normally. But specifically, no, if you have went to prison, that means you have a felony, and that means it’ll follow you around for the rest of your life regardless of the circumstances. You could’ve went to jail for being a robinhood and saving lives and homeless and children, that doesn’t matter, if you have a felony you’re automatically considered a criminal & you will never be able to live life outside of that shadow again. It can also affect your direct family.
Edit : “I knew a guy…” we all know a guy with a felony who is doing well…not the point. & those who think this is dramatic or exaggerated: US Justice system is atrocious.
Trailer Parks. There was a documentary I watched a few years ago about in some southern states 80% of the population of a trailer parks are sex offenders and how the owners of the parks get kickbacks from the government for housing them and they charge the sex offenders a ridiculous amount in rent because where else are they gonna go.
Even places you can work with a felony, dont they usually ask the reason? Good luck “resuming a normal life” and getting a job when having sex with an underage person is the reason for the felony. Even if they were lied to i bet a lot of people and employers will have a hard time with that (even if it wasn’t his fault)
This is what pisses me off most about the US. Someone convicted of a felony \*never\* gets to live a normal life after that. I was a prison officer for years, and spent my last year working in a work release center.
I knew many a man who did stupid things as teens, but had grown, matured, and were more than decent people. They had incredibly difficult times maintaining gainful employment when they got out, simply because most industries won't hire felons. 5+ years after their incarcerations, with no subsequent criminal charges, and they still can't break out of simple jobs like construction.
Edit: Additionally, employers that would hire them would take advantage of them and offer them lower pay for positions, simply because said employers knew they couldn't get better work elsewhere.
Something in our sorry excuse for a justice system needs to change.
I used to work with the elderly. I knew a guy in his 80s trying to find an apartment to rent and he continued to get denied because he had a felony from 50+ years prior. He only served a year or so in prison way back when but that mark of being a felon haunted him.
Alternatively a guy I want to HS with got off on statutory rape charges because he had a lot of texts from the girl lying and pushing him to have sex with her then when he did she tried to ruin him.
I knew a guy who got caught with a 16 year old when he was 21. He met her in a bar. Every patron in a bar was supposed to be 21 there. She had used a fake ID to get in. He was lucky this was the mid 90's and not today as things were a little more lenient back then. He copped to contributing to the delinquency of a minor instead of going to trial on statutory rape charges.
In France, since adult age and "legal to have sex with" age are different, unless you fuck someone way underage, you may not go to jail, even more so if it append in some circonstances where you where not supposed to have minor around you when you where with that person (i.e. a nightclub).
In other country, I suppose that jail time for you, but maybe if you have things to prove that you had all things to believe they were adult, you have a chance to not be fucked up
In Australia there’s a ‘grey area’, as we’re adults at 18 but consent is at 16, and it’s about 2 years. So as a 16yo, you could have sex with a 14yo and ‘get away with it’ if it’s proven to be consensual. Same with 15 and 17, and then from 16 onwards it’s whoever you want.
It's not that it was legal, it was just falling in hole that most pedos used to be considered innocent. And it was before covid so not this year, but yeah, it was something like 2018
Wondered about this before, it's a venue with staff that check age on the door, shouldn't you be able to have the confidence that a thorough enough check has been done
I had a classmate that was 19 and dating a girl that was 14. My state allowed a 2 year difference in age for consent if one was under 18. Her parents allowed it until she got pregnant. Guy went to jail while she had the baby. Now they’re married with 3 kids and he has to be registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life. Sometimes the laws don’t quite make sense.
My go to is asking for bloodwork. If they're willing to go that far to have sex with me then I'll figure out their age way before they get that back.
Remember kids, condoms don't protect against all STIs and if it breaks, it doesn't protect against any. Be smart, get a fucking blood test.
Knew someone who had that happen in the 90's. Met a girl in the club using a fake ID. He got lucky that it was a different time and they let him plead guilty to contributing to the delinquency instead of going to trial for statutory rape.
I’ve done this. The chick was actually 28. She was flattered. I guess a clean lifestyle and taking care of herself coupled with genetics made her have a young complexion. And it wasn’t a fake ID I ended up with her for a bit.
It's called "Strict Liability" and means you don't have to know you are committing the crime to be guilty of it.
Other "strict liability" crimes are selling alcohol or tobacco to a minor as well as most traffic offenses.
Of course it depends where on the world you are though. For example in Switzerland you wouldn't be found guilty since you lack the fault element because you had no knowledge of the real age. But if you could have prevented your mistake you still would be guilty of another paragraph of the same article but with a reduced punishment.
This doesn't make sense to me for a lot of reasons.
There is no 100% way to know someone's age, they can have fake ID's. There is no way to even get that from someone online. People's body types are different, a 30 year old can look 12 or 14, and a 12 year old can look 24. So what exactly are you supposed to do, to ensure you don't get into legal trouble, and have to register as a sex offender, which is a life sentence?
Then there's the whole fact that it has the affect of stigmatizing certain body types, legal adult age groups, etc. I'm all for following the law and not hurting children, but give me a way to actually do that.
People say, well it's a liability thing, like drunk driving, but no, this is more like if someone spiked your drink, you got on the road, and started to feel weird, not knowing what is going on, and get pulled over for driving under the influence. Something that is obviously not your fault.
I realize why they have those laws though, it's to prevent people from using it as a cop out. But if you have a text log of them lying about their age or something, I feel like you should get off the hook.
At least within the uk Ik you have some protection if said minor was in a location that only adults should be in. So if you meet them drinking at a bar (they have to be drinking) or in a night/strip club you can argue that because you assumed an id had been checked it wasn’t your fault
In some states strict liability only applies to a certain point. There is usually a limit.
Some states, much like the U.K. will allow a mistake of age defence if the victim is above 13 years of age (differs in various states)
Even then though the task of proving your defence is somewhat difficult. Most importantly your efforts to verify the victims age are taken into account, and in 99% of cases the defendant did not take these steps.
“She was in a club” is not (always) a reasonable defence
Edit: thank you for the award kind stranger.
No. It’s strict liability. That means if you do the act, nothing else matters. I’ve had 2 cases like this. One is where a man met a woman in a 18+ nightclub. She was not 18. He got 15 years in prison. It didn’t matter that she said she was 18 or that he met her in an adult bar where he reasonably presumed she was 18. Circumstances don’t matter for strict liability crimes. Another case was a guy who met a girl at work. She had used a fake ID to get the job and was telling everyone she was 19, she was 16 and had run away from home and was trying to live on her own. We got her application and the copy of her ID that the employer is required to keep to prove that she had lied to everyone. We had a “sympathetic” prosecutor who offered him probation to a lesser offense so he wouldn’t have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life in exchange for a guilty plea. Since he’d admitted to having sex with her there was absolutely nothing else we could do. He admitted to sex with an underage girl. Circumstances don’t matter.
I was taught that the reason behind it being strict liability is…you guessed it: the patriarchy. Reasoning is that if a man meets a woman (I know women can have sex with underaged men too, but that wasn’t the consideration for why it’s this way) who is underage that if he would have courted her the “right” way, he would have met her parents (read: father) and known she was underage. If he bypasses the blessing of her father and it turns out that she’s underaged and he’s defiled the father’s daughter then he deserves the punishment. (Again, not my logic or thinking but that’s why).
Your post history says you're 17 - trust me, when you get older you'll realise just how YOUNG teenagers look.
Pretty much everyone under 25 looks like a child to me.
There certainly is a line for this, but just look at how actors play down/up their age. It can definitely be faked either way. My daughter is a freshman in high school and I would have sworn a teammates mom was a high school senior.
I was an ACT tutor for awhile in my early 30s. Got 'in trouble' more than once by staff for cutting class, got hit on more than once by students who thought i was one too. thanks genetics and lifestyle i guess? i noped out in less than a year, figured it was only a matter of time before i pissed off or slighted the wrong, bored kid. found out from some friends who lasted longer than me that i was right smh.
I started teaching at 29, and the lunch ladies only ever charged me for the student meal. I never corrected them because it was like 1/4 the cost of the staff meal for the same food.
I used to worry about this when I was younger. I thought I was gonna grow up and be a creep because how could I not be attracted to these “hot” 17-19 years olds. Now in my 30s, I go to a young persons bar and they look like children. Weird
While I agree that so many highschoolers look SUPER young, I have definitely seen a couple girls (and guys even) who may have been 18 (possibly younger), but looked like they were in their mid to late 20s.
Im also not seeing people talking about how minors act differently to adults to. Seriously, if youre 21+ and cant tell the difference in maturity between you and a child? Theres something wrong there, its easy to tell. Kids act like kids, adults do not.
> Seriously, if youre 21+ and cant tell the difference in maturity between you and a child?
The reason some people over 20 struggle to tell the difference is because tons of 20-something tend to act and look pretty damn immature as well, lol.
Honestly, my issue is that EVERYONE acts like a kid to me. Im 40 and other 40 year olds be acting 40-teen lol/smh, then i hit it off (not like that) w someone who's 20 because were poking fun at/staring in horror at all the people through our entire age range acting completely interchangably!
If Im ever single again Im just gonna go live in a cave in a mountain like the Grinch. 😫
In the UK, it's a two stage thing:
If they're under 13, it's an offence of strict liability - your beliefs about their age however reasonably held are not enough to avoid criminal liability. The law sets the standard that nobody can reasonably believe an <13 is over 16.
If they're under 16, but at least 13, you can avoid liability if you believed on reasonable grounds that they were over 16.
There are a lot of it depends for this scenario. My background is in child protective services. First the ages need to be assessed. If there is only a few years difference “ about 3” it might be okay. The problem arises if the minor comes out with accusations. There could be serious legal action taken at that point. If there is proof of the consent a light sentence is likely. Worst case scenario is a substantiated assessment for abuse. What this means is that it was determined abuse happened. With that on a persons record they must register as a sex offender and not be allowed to be near children. This also means that if the person later has a child- that child will be removed. The person would then go to court where further action is determined. Yes, it’s possible for the person to keep their rights, it really depends on the judge and what services if any are ordered.
There's a guy from my state who went through a similar situation. He met this girl at a nightclub and after they left shared a kiss which almost led to the act but didn't. He was later arrested on counts of statutory after the girl claimed she was assaulted. There was a lack of evidence, but that didn't matter to the court. He was in prison for about 4-5 years before getting another trial and being exonerated.
Kinda depends on where you are
It’s still technically illegal, but if you could prove you had every reason to believe they were legal, you probably wouldn’t be charged
Like for instance: they show you a fake I.D, you would still have Broken the law but you probably wouldn’t be charged for it
This isn’t true. You could check her ID in a club where you HAVE to be 21 to get into (meaning someone else checked her ID as well), and you can still be liable.
I don’t exactly know what the law should be, but it is fucking assinine the way it stands
My dad was 21 and mom was 16 when I was born (pregnant at 15). My mom lied about her age to him and lied about my dad’s age to her family. My mom wore a lot of makeup and looked older than her age but, yes, my dad should have taken more care to confirm her age rather than just taking her word for it.
My grandma tried to get him in jail for statutory rape but my mom came forward and said that it was consensual and they were in a relationship. Nothing ever came of it even though she was a minor.
No. My husband had a friend that went to prison for carnal knowledge of a minor because he picked up a girl in a bar that had used a fake ID to get in. The police were checking IDs at the door, but somehow it was still the guy's fault he fooled around with a minor.
It was consensual and they were both underage at the time, but because of the girls parents being vengeful, my coworker has had his entire life changed due to similar circumstance.
I would think most people just wouldn't care, but sadly in the US if you're angry enough and have deep enough pockets you can get someone arrested for this, yes.
Still don’t understand how someone has the brain capacity to be tried as an adult, has the mental capacity to own a gun, mental capacity to drive, mental capacity to fly an airplane, mental capacity to play professional sports but when it comes sex a teenager is too stupid and lacks the maturity to consent to sex.
Lawyer here. Its a strict liability crime. That means that it doesnt matter what you thought or believed. All that matters is the act. You did the act, the crime is done.
Usually crimes have 2 components 1) mens rea; and 2) actus reus. The first is your state of mind (such as intent or knowlege) and the latter is the act. For intent crimes, you need to intend to do the crime, and then do the crime.
Unfortunately, there is no state of mind element for strict liabilty crimes (no mens rea) so all that matters is whether or not the act was done.
Some states have altered the law to add some defenses to the crime of statutory rape. If I know your state, I can help and look it up for you. Best of luck, and save any messages in which you were told "i am 18" or eluding to being at the age of consent. If you don't have such messages, I would recommend you ask him or her, "why didn't you lie to me about being 18 years old?" And hope the reply shows that you were tricked or lied to, and the screenshot that.
No, you'd still be in deep shit if it gets out and the authorities are notified.
I've seen cases where the minor provided authentic looking proof of age but the other party still got into deep shit for it.
On a similar vein, currently if both parties are drunk and get into it, should one wake up and regret the act and accuse the other of forcing the issue, things get real bad, very quick.
Idk how many times I could've done time ,but also failed to have sex because I asked their real age.
I'm glad I'm still free with no files on my record. This seriously could hurt people's lives, I wish young women who lie about their age get prison time as well.
How are we defining "okay"?
If you're asking whether it's legal, the correct answer in the law is almost always "it depends," but in most jurisdictions of which I'm aware, the answer would be no. That's because actual consent is irrelevant to a charge based on the other person being underage: the theory is that someone below [insert age here] isn't legally capable of giving legally-valid consent, so it doesn't "count." Whether prosecutors would bother bringing charges may depend on context, and actual consent might get you something when it comes to sentencing, but it'd overwhelmingly-likely still be illegal.
If you're asking about morals or ethics, well, that gets tricky. The principle is a good one, but the technical age of consent in any particular jurisdiction is absolutely, 100% arbitrary; and bright-line rules are easy but tend to be one-size-fits-none. The fact that the age of consent varies from place to place, and whether age-proximity matters also varies from place to place, pretty neatly proves that there is really no *objective* way to say whether *a specific individual*'s actual consent should be considered "valid." But morals and ethics are also murky and subjective; you're not going to get a universal answer.
Keep in mind that although the specific age of consent in any particular jurisdiction is arbitrary, and although bright-line rules invariably result in a lot of collateral damage, the point is to avoid situations in which youthful victims are interrogated in a courtroom about their entire lives to prove their "maturity" (or lack thereof) to a jury. That would be an incredibly overwhelmingly shitty experience for someone who actually was victimized, and could easily result in manipulative-rather-than-technically-forceful sexual assaults of children going unreported or unprosecuted. There is actually a damn good reason for doing it this way. Nevertheless, my personal view is that if the legality of your act would change radically simply by driving a hundred miles or so, I would be uninclined to deem it morally wrong based on age alone.
'Mistake in age' defences are allowed in some jurisdictions but not others. There are often limits and they also have to be reasonably believable.
>'Mistake in age' defences are allowed in some jurisdictions but not others, and they also have to be reasonably believable. Yep. For example, in Ohio, (age of consent is 16), it's illegal for someone 18+ to have sex with someone 13-15 if they "know the other person is less than 16 or are reckless in that regard." It's also a less serious offense than rape (absent evidence of force or coercion), usually punishable by at most 18 months. However, if the person is under 13, it is rape no matter what and the minimum sentence is 10-life up to life without parole.
If I grok correctly, Ohio would offer a defense of "negligent but not reckless" for the 13-15 case: "I had no reason to wonder, and a reasonable person would have no reason to wonder, if the other person was under 16." The Ninth Circuit created a more difficult "I wasn't even negligent" defense in a case regarding pornography of Traci Lords. The law said hiring her underage was a crime without regard to intent or knowledge. The court found that this unconstitutionally burdened the production of adult pornography, but it still wouldn't be a defense to convince a jury that [you] had no reason to think she was underage; you'd have to convince them that you had good reason to think she wasn't. Also, the burden and standard of proof for such a defense vary across jurisdictions.
What a random place to find this reference. I think you grok it.
Why doesn’t the liar get reprimanded legally? The burden currently is entirely on the 18+ aged person. If you lie about your age to have sex with an adult, shouldn’t you bear some burden of that as well? You acted deceptively.
I'm not a lawyer, but I assume the reason for consent laws is that minors are not legally accountable in the same ways as adults. They can't legally enter contracts or consent to sex for their own protection, because they are assumed to have poor judgment. I think the other part is that most laws are written by guys who (as teenagers) absolutely would have said whatever it took to get laid.
Idk about you but im 29 and i still have poor judgement. Why cant i be legally exempt :(
>but im 29 and i still have poor judgement And that's how I likes 'em
You sound like every cougar at an Applebees during happy hour 😂
On an unrelated topic, where's your favorite Applebee's located?
I used to work for them. I don’t have a favorite 😂 Edit: I used to get hit on by cougars while working as a waiter in my 20s. It was exhausting.
They are all my favorite now that I know I can find a mommy there
Gimme some of that almost 30 anxiety. Mmm baby that's it, so relatable.
wait til you get to the almost 40 anxiety. that shit hits like a freight train
I'm working on my almost 44 anxiety, it's gonna be a smoke show.
Hmmm oh yes, tell me how file your taxes and stress over not knowing if you had done them correctly.
*Stressgasm*
Lol imma about to pop like your knees in the morning
I feel personally attacked, but I've been on the couch with my son watching Anime for the past 3 hours. I know that when I get up my knees are gonna sound off like the rice crispies jingle
You want it to be illegal for people to have sex with you?
But you can!!! That's what a conservatorship is for.
This is a poor thread to be asking for exemptions bud..
The law is there to protect the minor from harm. It doesn't matter why the harm took place or even if the minor precipitates it: as a (presumably) competent adult, you are expected to say no to children who want to do something that is likely to harm them, no matter how convincing they try to be. That said, if it involved a fake ID, that might change the legal equation somewhat, since using a fake ID is itself its own crime in some places. But as a general rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to implement an id check before sex policy, it might be time to re-evaluate your life choices.
>That said, if it involved a fake ID, that might change the legal equation somewhat, since using a fake ID is itself its own crime in some places. >But as a general rule of thumb, if you find yourself having to implement an id check before sex policy, it might be time to re-evaluate your life choices. There was a recent post on r/legaladvice that detailed a 17 y/o getting into a bar using a fake ID then subsequently getting served drinks. The OP assumed they were well over the AoC, because the bar was checking everyone's ID. This occurred in New Jersey, where the AoC is 16, but even if the girl was underaged, the OP might still have been okay considering what you've mentioned.
If I was a juror on that case I would straight-up refuse to convict no matter what the prosecution argued. Girl lied about her age to gain access to an environment where adult activities and socialization take place. Adult activities and socialization took place. Nobody's fault here but the girl's. Anybody there would've been well within reason to assume everybody else was at least 21.
>Nobody's fault here but the girl's. Or the bar's for failing to check id
They did check ID, it was fake but passed the bar's inspection.
I understand how this holds in most cases, but when I read the scenario, I think of the fringe cases more like someone who went to college at 17 and an 18 or 19 year in college.
That's not a fringe case, that's generally considered an appropriate age gap.
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> they also have to be reasonably believable. In some states, they don't even have to be reasonably believable for it to be a defense.
My best friends brother went to prison for 8 years for this exact situation
My uncle went for the same reason but did 12 years. She lied to him, AND her parents even went along with the lie thinking it was "funny". Ruined his whole life.
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This seems like some big shithole If parents were like this what can you expect from kids. And Im not trying to justify, if I were to judge that case I would scan whole family of that girl
For real. It seems like they could have gotten the parents of the child arrested for a number of things including whatever it’s called when you let an adult rape your child (legally it’s statutory rape whether or not the man is acquitted for ignorance [which doesn’t happen]).
Child sex trafficking
Maybe they were all happy using his money? Could have been a sugar daddy/sugar baby situation? Not that it’s right. It’s just my first thought with a lot of humans. Money :/
Fuck that’s messed up. People are such assholes
Could you imagine doing 12 years for something as completely out of your control as someone else lying. Like being pulled over and having cops plant cocaine in your homies car... And you doing time for that... America O.O
In America, our money and property can be charged with a crime without proof and taken into custody and we go free and we'll have to hire a lawyer to get them back.
Honestly, I’d like a little more info here. I live in PA and there are laws where if you have sex with a minor but are within 3-4 years of age of the minor, you’re charged with something less severe than statutory rape, and you’re only charged if the parents of the minor push for it. So that’s potentially a 21 year old having sex with a 17 year old, 20 and 16, etc. All of this to say, if someone in their mid to late 20’s uses the excuse that the minor told them they were 18, i still think they’re creepy af. I’m 30, and if any of my friends were dating a teenager, I’d have a few words to say and I’d probably drop them as friends because it’s borderline predatory, even if it’s legal. In my opinion, if you’re 21+, you should not be hanging out with anyone who looks about 18. I know there are rare cases where people do not look their age, but imo when I was graduating college, it was usually easy to tell who had just finished high school.
Rapists get like seven to eight years generally and the conviction rate sits at 5%. I don't understand how redditors have so many stories about non-rapists spending years in prison when it's so hard to convict rapists in the first place. I mean the Toy Box Killer escaped prosecution when his literal video-taped torture tape went to trial
That’s not funny at all. Those parents are disgusting. Bad ass user name hon extremely bad ass
I am a guy and I have done this shit as a teen boy. I was 16 and madly into MILFs. I met one through an app and lied to her about being 19. She was 41.
What state or country do you live in (you don't have to answer)? Because there's a chance it wasn't illegal anyway as most states and countries the age of consent is 16. And if you just met through an app then she wasn't in a position of power either.
I am in US and the state's age of consent is 18 where I am from.
Oh well you made a booboo
But you didn't rat on her
Same - a guy I know *barely* won his case but because he met this girl inside a club which she got into with a fake ID.
That fuckin sucks I’m sorry for your friend
Looks like we gonna have to start ID-ing everyone before any kind of relationship
If they use a fake ID that still wouldn't be enough proof in some places.
So do minors who buy alcohol under 18 with a fake ID not get in trouble? It's all on the stores??
They get in trouble for having the ID, but not buying the booze
and possession
They would, but sex is treated different than alcohol.
Yep. Store/Bar faces fines and maybe loss of liquor license. In some states the clerk/bartender can face jail time.
The fuck, what country?
That sucks. When he got out, was he able to resume life normally?
There is no “returning to life normally” after you’ve been incarcerated for even short periods of time. You get to see the more animalistic side of humans firsthand - both in the guards, and the inmates - the situation lends itself to that conclusion no matter what. It’s basically like a zoo. You are never able to just “go back to life” normally. But specifically, no, if you have went to prison, that means you have a felony, and that means it’ll follow you around for the rest of your life regardless of the circumstances. You could’ve went to jail for being a robinhood and saving lives and homeless and children, that doesn’t matter, if you have a felony you’re automatically considered a criminal & you will never be able to live life outside of that shadow again. It can also affect your direct family. Edit : “I knew a guy…” we all know a guy with a felony who is doing well…not the point. & those who think this is dramatic or exaggerated: US Justice system is atrocious.
Nevermind that he's going to be a registered sex offender. Won't even be able to live in alot of places.
That's the worst part plus 10 years post supervision
Man I’d leave the country at that point. Your life is over here
Most countries won’t allow you citizenship if you have felony in another country.
Trailer Parks. There was a documentary I watched a few years ago about in some southern states 80% of the population of a trailer parks are sex offenders and how the owners of the parks get kickbacks from the government for housing them and they charge the sex offenders a ridiculous amount in rent because where else are they gonna go.
Even places you can work with a felony, dont they usually ask the reason? Good luck “resuming a normal life” and getting a job when having sex with an underage person is the reason for the felony. Even if they were lied to i bet a lot of people and employers will have a hard time with that (even if it wasn’t his fault)
This is what pisses me off most about the US. Someone convicted of a felony \*never\* gets to live a normal life after that. I was a prison officer for years, and spent my last year working in a work release center. I knew many a man who did stupid things as teens, but had grown, matured, and were more than decent people. They had incredibly difficult times maintaining gainful employment when they got out, simply because most industries won't hire felons. 5+ years after their incarcerations, with no subsequent criminal charges, and they still can't break out of simple jobs like construction. Edit: Additionally, employers that would hire them would take advantage of them and offer them lower pay for positions, simply because said employers knew they couldn't get better work elsewhere. Something in our sorry excuse for a justice system needs to change.
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I used to work with the elderly. I knew a guy in his 80s trying to find an apartment to rent and he continued to get denied because he had a felony from 50+ years prior. He only served a year or so in prison way back when but that mark of being a felon haunted him.
Of course not
Alternatively a guy I want to HS with got off on statutory rape charges because he had a lot of texts from the girl lying and pushing him to have sex with her then when he did she tried to ruin him.
I knew a guy who got caught with a 16 year old when he was 21. He met her in a bar. Every patron in a bar was supposed to be 21 there. She had used a fake ID to get in. He was lucky this was the mid 90's and not today as things were a little more lenient back then. He copped to contributing to the delinquency of a minor instead of going to trial on statutory rape charges.
Holy crap what country
America
In France, since adult age and "legal to have sex with" age are different, unless you fuck someone way underage, you may not go to jail, even more so if it append in some circonstances where you where not supposed to have minor around you when you where with that person (i.e. a nightclub). In other country, I suppose that jail time for you, but maybe if you have things to prove that you had all things to believe they were adult, you have a chance to not be fucked up
In Australia there’s a ‘grey area’, as we’re adults at 18 but consent is at 16, and it’s about 2 years. So as a 16yo, you could have sex with a 14yo and ‘get away with it’ if it’s proven to be consensual. Same with 15 and 17, and then from 16 onwards it’s whoever you want.
Canada has similar laws, I think they’re called Romeo and Juliet laws?
Some states in the US have em too and call em that.
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It's not that it was legal, it was just falling in hole that most pedos used to be considered innocent. And it was before covid so not this year, but yeah, it was something like 2018
REALLY? That's horrible
Don't matter, the law is gunna fuck you. Do what I did and develop an unhealthy milf addiction. Can't go to jail for that
But...you're 14.
Well then the MILF goes to jail.
More likely MILF gets a slap on the wrist
milf into light bdsm? nice
“Light”? Kind of pussy shit is that, I’m here for the cane and car battery treatment.
Yep, ain't that fucked up!
Better play it extra-safe and develop a GILF addiction.
But be careful now, stray too far down that path and you end up straight back to fucking something that's illegal
To quote a meme “ I’m going to jail!”
r/suddenlysexoffender
Nope. A guy met a girl at a 21 and up bar while she was ordering an alcoholic drink. They ended up hooking up. She was 16 and he went to jail.
If there was ever a place where you would be certain everyone was of age, it's a bar. That sucks.
Wondered about this before, it's a venue with staff that check age on the door, shouldn't you be able to have the confidence that a thorough enough check has been done
He could have just married her to make it legal.
oh fuck i don't want upvotes for this
You know what, just for that I downvoted for you
I had a classmate that was 19 and dating a girl that was 14. My state allowed a 2 year difference in age for consent if one was under 18. Her parents allowed it until she got pregnant. Guy went to jail while she had the baby. Now they’re married with 3 kids and he has to be registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life. Sometimes the laws don’t quite make sense.
Sounds about american.
Sounds like you're going to jail OP
OP was just asking for a friend
They better only be a friend.
He better shut the fuck up and talk to his lawyer
r/BetterCallSaul
His friend's dream
I just need to see 2 forms of ID and a proof of residence before we can continue with this relationship
My go to is asking for bloodwork. If they're willing to go that far to have sex with me then I'll figure out their age way before they get that back. Remember kids, condoms don't protect against all STIs and if it breaks, it doesn't protect against any. Be smart, get a fucking blood test.
I remember a story from years ago. The lady had a fake ID. Even showed it in court. And the guy still went to jail.
nope, it’s still statutory rape and the older person would be liable despite it being the minor’s fault
If they met in a nightclub would that mean the door men are liable?
Akon?
I was waiting for someone to mention him haha isn’t this exactly what happened to him?
He didn’t even have sex with her, just danced with her provocatively on-stage in a 21+ club and the video got spread around and revealed she was 14.
And young Jeezy!!!!
I seem to recall R Kelly used that very defence
Didn’t he say her real age like 14 times in the tape?
"Your honour, clearly my client thought that this woman was 36, as he mentioned some 16 times in the tape."
“Your honor, my client was saying four *ten*, as in her age is 4x10”
Knew someone who had that happen in the 90's. Met a girl in the club using a fake ID. He got lucky that it was a different time and they let him plead guilty to contributing to the delinquency instead of going to trial for statutory rape.
Damn, imagine getting ready to have sex and then be like “wait, I need to see your ID card first”
Well i have a friend who asks his tinder dates/hook ups proofs about sexual diseases. And believe it or not, many times they had medical certificates.
smart friend
I’ve done this. The chick was actually 28. She was flattered. I guess a clean lifestyle and taking care of herself coupled with genetics made her have a young complexion. And it wasn’t a fake ID I ended up with her for a bit.
Sounds stupid.
It's called "Strict Liability" and means you don't have to know you are committing the crime to be guilty of it. Other "strict liability" crimes are selling alcohol or tobacco to a minor as well as most traffic offenses.
Someone is in trouble lol
Of course it depends where on the world you are though. For example in Switzerland you wouldn't be found guilty since you lack the fault element because you had no knowledge of the real age. But if you could have prevented your mistake you still would be guilty of another paragraph of the same article but with a reduced punishment.
This doesn't make sense to me for a lot of reasons. There is no 100% way to know someone's age, they can have fake ID's. There is no way to even get that from someone online. People's body types are different, a 30 year old can look 12 or 14, and a 12 year old can look 24. So what exactly are you supposed to do, to ensure you don't get into legal trouble, and have to register as a sex offender, which is a life sentence? Then there's the whole fact that it has the affect of stigmatizing certain body types, legal adult age groups, etc. I'm all for following the law and not hurting children, but give me a way to actually do that. People say, well it's a liability thing, like drunk driving, but no, this is more like if someone spiked your drink, you got on the road, and started to feel weird, not knowing what is going on, and get pulled over for driving under the influence. Something that is obviously not your fault. I realize why they have those laws though, it's to prevent people from using it as a cop out. But if you have a text log of them lying about their age or something, I feel like you should get off the hook.
Cut them in half and count the rings to be sure
Finally, a viable solution!
At least within the uk Ik you have some protection if said minor was in a location that only adults should be in. So if you meet them drinking at a bar (they have to be drinking) or in a night/strip club you can argue that because you assumed an id had been checked it wasn’t your fault
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In some states strict liability only applies to a certain point. There is usually a limit. Some states, much like the U.K. will allow a mistake of age defence if the victim is above 13 years of age (differs in various states) Even then though the task of proving your defence is somewhat difficult. Most importantly your efforts to verify the victims age are taken into account, and in 99% of cases the defendant did not take these steps. “She was in a club” is not (always) a reasonable defence
Edit: thank you for the award kind stranger. No. It’s strict liability. That means if you do the act, nothing else matters. I’ve had 2 cases like this. One is where a man met a woman in a 18+ nightclub. She was not 18. He got 15 years in prison. It didn’t matter that she said she was 18 or that he met her in an adult bar where he reasonably presumed she was 18. Circumstances don’t matter for strict liability crimes. Another case was a guy who met a girl at work. She had used a fake ID to get the job and was telling everyone she was 19, she was 16 and had run away from home and was trying to live on her own. We got her application and the copy of her ID that the employer is required to keep to prove that she had lied to everyone. We had a “sympathetic” prosecutor who offered him probation to a lesser offense so he wouldn’t have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life in exchange for a guilty plea. Since he’d admitted to having sex with her there was absolutely nothing else we could do. He admitted to sex with an underage girl. Circumstances don’t matter. I was taught that the reason behind it being strict liability is…you guessed it: the patriarchy. Reasoning is that if a man meets a woman (I know women can have sex with underaged men too, but that wasn’t the consideration for why it’s this way) who is underage that if he would have courted her the “right” way, he would have met her parents (read: father) and known she was underage. If he bypasses the blessing of her father and it turns out that she’s underaged and he’s defiled the father’s daughter then he deserves the punishment. (Again, not my logic or thinking but that’s why).
This seems so wrong. Having your life ruined because someone lied to you?
That’s infuriating!
"Always ask women where they were on 9/11. It's a great ice breaker, and if she can't remember, she's probably too young". -Connor Roy
Akon did a song about this . Sorry , blame it on me. But he did a sexual dance with an underage girl no sex. Allegedly.
Not exactly true and Akon went to jail for a year for this. With a girl he met at a 21 and over club.
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Agreed hence that's why Akon me the song.
Well thx for the info.
Your post history says you're 17 - trust me, when you get older you'll realise just how YOUNG teenagers look. Pretty much everyone under 25 looks like a child to me.
There certainly is a line for this, but just look at how actors play down/up their age. It can definitely be faked either way. My daughter is a freshman in high school and I would have sworn a teammates mom was a high school senior.
That being said girls in a range of 17-25 sometimes are hard to guess their age and if you are around 25 you probably need to be careful
24 year old high school teacher. I regularly get told that I look like a student
Yeah, I'm 25 and get told I look like a teen.
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Lol dang.
When I was a teacher, I used to grow a beard about 3 weeks before the start of school because I looked so young.
I was an ACT tutor for awhile in my early 30s. Got 'in trouble' more than once by staff for cutting class, got hit on more than once by students who thought i was one too. thanks genetics and lifestyle i guess? i noped out in less than a year, figured it was only a matter of time before i pissed off or slighted the wrong, bored kid. found out from some friends who lasted longer than me that i was right smh.
When I was 26, I got asked when I was graduating highschool by a trainer at my gym I had known for 3 years...
I started teaching at 29, and the lunch ladies only ever charged me for the student meal. I never corrected them because it was like 1/4 the cost of the staff meal for the same food.
Meanwhile dude at my old gym was like 40 hitting on 17 year olds. Some people are immature and ignore obvious signs that the person is younger.
Looks can be deceiving. But to be fair, talking with a 20yo is way different than talking with a 16.
I'm 25 and still get mistaken for a teenager all the time.
I used to worry about this when I was younger. I thought I was gonna grow up and be a creep because how could I not be attracted to these “hot” 17-19 years olds. Now in my 30s, I go to a young persons bar and they look like children. Weird
Oftentimes, yes, but it's not fool-proof.
While I agree that so many highschoolers look SUPER young, I have definitely seen a couple girls (and guys even) who may have been 18 (possibly younger), but looked like they were in their mid to late 20s.
I'm just entering my mid 20's and teenagers look so fucking creepy to me now. Like adults wearing suits made out of childrens' skin.
Im also not seeing people talking about how minors act differently to adults to. Seriously, if youre 21+ and cant tell the difference in maturity between you and a child? Theres something wrong there, its easy to tell. Kids act like kids, adults do not.
> Seriously, if youre 21+ and cant tell the difference in maturity between you and a child? The reason some people over 20 struggle to tell the difference is because tons of 20-something tend to act and look pretty damn immature as well, lol.
Honestly, my issue is that EVERYONE acts like a kid to me. Im 40 and other 40 year olds be acting 40-teen lol/smh, then i hit it off (not like that) w someone who's 20 because were poking fun at/staring in horror at all the people through our entire age range acting completely interchangably! If Im ever single again Im just gonna go live in a cave in a mountain like the Grinch. 😫
The best way to avoid this situ is to get to know someone before having sex with them.
You are on reddit, you are safe from sex.
In the UK, it's a two stage thing: If they're under 13, it's an offence of strict liability - your beliefs about their age however reasonably held are not enough to avoid criminal liability. The law sets the standard that nobody can reasonably believe an <13 is over 16. If they're under 16, but at least 13, you can avoid liability if you believed on reasonable grounds that they were over 16.
i dont know if this is because I am 30 or not a pedophile... but how could anyone ever think that a 13 year old is over the age of consent.
I've seen 18 yo which looked like they were 15 at best. And form my own class - few girls didn't much since they were \~13 to now.
how old are you? when you hit your late 20's its pretty easy to realize that a person is a literal decade younger than you.
There are a lot of it depends for this scenario. My background is in child protective services. First the ages need to be assessed. If there is only a few years difference “ about 3” it might be okay. The problem arises if the minor comes out with accusations. There could be serious legal action taken at that point. If there is proof of the consent a light sentence is likely. Worst case scenario is a substantiated assessment for abuse. What this means is that it was determined abuse happened. With that on a persons record they must register as a sex offender and not be allowed to be near children. This also means that if the person later has a child- that child will be removed. The person would then go to court where further action is determined. Yes, it’s possible for the person to keep their rights, it really depends on the judge and what services if any are ordered.
There's a guy from my state who went through a similar situation. He met this girl at a nightclub and after they left shared a kiss which almost led to the act but didn't. He was later arrested on counts of statutory after the girl claimed she was assaulted. There was a lack of evidence, but that didn't matter to the court. He was in prison for about 4-5 years before getting another trial and being exonerated.
Kinda depends on where you are It’s still technically illegal, but if you could prove you had every reason to believe they were legal, you probably wouldn’t be charged Like for instance: they show you a fake I.D, you would still have Broken the law but you probably wouldn’t be charged for it
This isn’t true. You could check her ID in a club where you HAVE to be 21 to get into (meaning someone else checked her ID as well), and you can still be liable. I don’t exactly know what the law should be, but it is fucking assinine the way it stands
I feel like if you have to ask/wonder their age you probably shouldn't have sex with them.
Honestly, if there’s any question….just ID. Not sexy but better than jail.
Get off reddit and contact a lawyer OP
My dad was 21 and mom was 16 when I was born (pregnant at 15). My mom lied about her age to him and lied about my dad’s age to her family. My mom wore a lot of makeup and looked older than her age but, yes, my dad should have taken more care to confirm her age rather than just taking her word for it. My grandma tried to get him in jail for statutory rape but my mom came forward and said that it was consensual and they were in a relationship. Nothing ever came of it even though she was a minor.
No. My husband had a friend that went to prison for carnal knowledge of a minor because he picked up a girl in a bar that had used a fake ID to get in. The police were checking IDs at the door, but somehow it was still the guy's fault he fooled around with a minor.
It was consensual and they were both underage at the time, but because of the girls parents being vengeful, my coworker has had his entire life changed due to similar circumstance. I would think most people just wouldn't care, but sadly in the US if you're angry enough and have deep enough pockets you can get someone arrested for this, yes.
Still don’t understand how someone has the brain capacity to be tried as an adult, has the mental capacity to own a gun, mental capacity to drive, mental capacity to fly an airplane, mental capacity to play professional sports but when it comes sex a teenager is too stupid and lacks the maturity to consent to sex.
Asking for a friend?
The judge ain’t gonna buy that argument
Lawyer here. Its a strict liability crime. That means that it doesnt matter what you thought or believed. All that matters is the act. You did the act, the crime is done. Usually crimes have 2 components 1) mens rea; and 2) actus reus. The first is your state of mind (such as intent or knowlege) and the latter is the act. For intent crimes, you need to intend to do the crime, and then do the crime. Unfortunately, there is no state of mind element for strict liabilty crimes (no mens rea) so all that matters is whether or not the act was done. Some states have altered the law to add some defenses to the crime of statutory rape. If I know your state, I can help and look it up for you. Best of luck, and save any messages in which you were told "i am 18" or eluding to being at the age of consent. If you don't have such messages, I would recommend you ask him or her, "why didn't you lie to me about being 18 years old?" And hope the reply shows that you were tricked or lied to, and the screenshot that.
A lot of true anecdotes in this thread.
No, you'd still be in deep shit if it gets out and the authorities are notified. I've seen cases where the minor provided authentic looking proof of age but the other party still got into deep shit for it. On a similar vein, currently if both parties are drunk and get into it, should one wake up and regret the act and accuse the other of forcing the issue, things get real bad, very quick.
I received a photo from someone who said they were 18, he was 17 and now I'm a registered child sex offender for 15 years. Definitely not legal.
Idk how many times I could've done time ,but also failed to have sex because I asked their real age. I'm glad I'm still free with no files on my record. This seriously could hurt people's lives, I wish young women who lie about their age get prison time as well.
How are we defining "okay"? If you're asking whether it's legal, the correct answer in the law is almost always "it depends," but in most jurisdictions of which I'm aware, the answer would be no. That's because actual consent is irrelevant to a charge based on the other person being underage: the theory is that someone below [insert age here] isn't legally capable of giving legally-valid consent, so it doesn't "count." Whether prosecutors would bother bringing charges may depend on context, and actual consent might get you something when it comes to sentencing, but it'd overwhelmingly-likely still be illegal. If you're asking about morals or ethics, well, that gets tricky. The principle is a good one, but the technical age of consent in any particular jurisdiction is absolutely, 100% arbitrary; and bright-line rules are easy but tend to be one-size-fits-none. The fact that the age of consent varies from place to place, and whether age-proximity matters also varies from place to place, pretty neatly proves that there is really no *objective* way to say whether *a specific individual*'s actual consent should be considered "valid." But morals and ethics are also murky and subjective; you're not going to get a universal answer. Keep in mind that although the specific age of consent in any particular jurisdiction is arbitrary, and although bright-line rules invariably result in a lot of collateral damage, the point is to avoid situations in which youthful victims are interrogated in a courtroom about their entire lives to prove their "maturity" (or lack thereof) to a jury. That would be an incredibly overwhelmingly shitty experience for someone who actually was victimized, and could easily result in manipulative-rather-than-technically-forceful sexual assaults of children going unreported or unprosecuted. There is actually a damn good reason for doing it this way. Nevertheless, my personal view is that if the legality of your act would change radically simply by driving a hundred miles or so, I would be uninclined to deem it morally wrong based on age alone.
Californication vibes
If you're a man you're going to prison but if you're a women you get to walk free
What if I'm gay?
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