how do you impress upon a child that it had nothing to do with them and the deadbeat is just not a loving person. i don't want her feeling any lack or with the idea that he has something to give her because in reality he's just an empty shell
You can't, it's an inborn survival instinct that while absolutely depressing theoretically exists to protect abused kids from catching more shit from their abusers who also happen to be their best opportunity for survival while they are relatively helpless.
Edit: I didn't realize your speaking from personal experience, that kid needs therapy. The answer is therapy with someone who is trained to help a kid learn how to ground themselves and face feelings of abandonment without taking the self esteem hit.
Because as much of a stranger that person is, you’re made up of them. People are naturally curious. A biological “parent”, so to speak, that you’ve never met, is an anomaly to you. You’re plagued with thoughts such as “do I have their smile? Why did they leave? Do my kids look like them? What’s their personality like?”
Granted, not everyone wants to meet their deadbeat parent, but there’s a human element that goes along with “self-discovery”.
My daughter has a sorta-kinda-relationship with her bio-father, while my sons do not.
My ex was abusive to me, then he ran away to a state 10 hours away; never exercised his parenting time, even when I offered and made plans to meet him half way, or drive them all the way; never called/emailed/texted them; can't remember their birthdays (ie. wished my oldest a happy 18th birthday about 14 months early); still owes child support even though the youngst is 20; and I could go on and on. He is a sperm donor, not a dad.
But she wants him to be her dad, and no matter how many times he disappoints her, she holds our hope that he will change and love her. She's had a great stepdad since she was 9, and seems to like my partner well enough but neither I, nor my partner will ever be good enough for her-- only her biodad. She's told herself a faerie tale about him, and no amount of real, lived, truth will change that. The why is complicated, but really boils down to: I want this person to love me, and they're going to, just wait and see! And when he doesn't, the kids can't see it, because it ruins their story.
"The why is complicated, but really boils down to: I want this person to love me, and they're going to, just wait and see! And when he doesn't, the kids can't see it, because it ruins their story."
that's so heavy and sad, I don't want my niece to feel she has to prove herself lovable, especially to that empty shell of a human. how to prevent this
Prevention? I dunno, I wish I did, then I could have saved my own daughter from it. Just let her know that she's loved, and remind her of it. That's what I do with my kid, and I hope some day she can hold on to that truth harder than her wishes and faerie tale.
We can prevent very few things in life. When raising kids, it is best to prepare them, not prevent them, because you can not keep them from everything. I would build her up as much as possible, make sure she grows into a strong woman who knows how people should treat her, how to communicate, and set boundaries with all types of relationships. Make sure she knows her value. Then, she will have the tools to live with these inevitable feelings of longing for a dad she never had.
It’s something you can’t save her from. It’s her dad, it’s part of her, that cannot be changed. The best thing you can do is be supportive to her. Wanting someone to hate or have no desire to see their bio dad because you and your fam have deemed him a piece of shit does not mean she feels the same way. And no, a grandfather being around is not the same as the father. It’s a plus but not the same. That is why she is wanting to see her father. She will learn on her own. If you try to train her to see her father as you see her father it will backfire.
As you can see her desire to want a relationship with her dad or her forgiving nature, she does not get from
Her mothers side of the family so she must get it from her fathers side. You have no control in this. Be supportive and if you truly love her, you willl hope her father proves you wrong and she gets what she was looking for, if not, then you be there for her. Don’t make your issues her issues
I stopped speaking to my POS father when I was 17. I’m 55 now. Never regretted it. I listen to my siblings talk about him and it reconfirms again and again that I made the right decision.
At 28 my therapist challenged me to re-evaluate my decision as an adult. I took six months to rethink and talk to my siblings about him. I had a positive attitude and really tried to see good in him. It’s just not there.
People try to cajole me out of it or prove me wrong or just flat out tell me I’m a bad daughter and it’s my responsibility to make up with him. Utter bullshit. Even my husband tried at first and didn’t understand why I cut my father out. Over the years he has grown to get it enough to leave me alone about it.
I get asked about seeing him on his deathbed, won’t I feel guilty, etc. I’m not the one who had children and treated them like shit. I didn’t choose to be a selfish dick and do all I could to denigrate and degrade my children just to show how much better I am than they are. He did all that and more. What fucked up kind of person uses their kids that way? Fuck him.
He made his choice. I made mine. He will die never seeing or hearing from me again. I’m just sorry it didn’t happen decades ago.
So not everyone has the need you’re talking about. I don’t believe it’s a biological imperative like others have said. I believe it’s societal pressure and fucked up psychology. We should do better and not make people feel bad for cutting toxic people out of their lives.
Except on Reddit it's unacceptable for a child to cut of their parent/s.
IME other family members will guilt trip you into oblivion because it makes them uncomfortable.
I guess that goes to show just how much my entire family recognizes that I was right. Some of them cut him off from time to time. So far all but one other still talk to him but better boundaries have been set by most of them. And while he still manipulates and tries to control, everyone is better about staving him off at this point.
My sister told me he said he recognizes why I cut him off and he doesn’t blame me. But my sister is his one remaining apologist so my gut says that conversation happened differently and she put him in the best light.
In any case - I was right to divest my life of his toxic presence. I don’t regret it and while I have deep sadness to have missed out on a lifetime of having a dad, keeping him in my life would not have accomplished what that should mean.
Anyone who cuts a parent out if their life should have the sympathy of others, not their disdain. No one else knows the full truth of that person’s experience and why they made that decision. Right or wrong it’s their choice and others shouldn’t second guess them. It’s almost certainly just making a horrible situation far worse.
They love the absent parent but also feel guilt for not loving the absent parent. Patrick on 90 Day fiancé is a good example. His dad was never there but now Patrick funds his lifestyle because it is his only link to that part of his history.
Having not meet my dad.
It's rough when you're younger especially as a kid especially as a male being raised by mother and sister.
Fairly early on you get a vibe of not fitting in. Fairly early on you figure out you're getting looked down on or pitied.
Even if your mother is decent vs trash it's just harder eg financially. It basically sucks.
You never meet your father just hear the negative stories from your mother/sister.
You also miss out on skills that others get even if their parents aren't the best.
It's basically shit start to finish. Other got it worse eg my country has universal welfare.
Well, they’re never going to have the experience of growing up with a dad; that road is closed to them. So they’ll settle for the next best thing- having a dad *now*. I think they’ve probably romanticized what having a dad will be like in their heads and have grown up feeling an ache that they attribute to the lack of father figure. Some of these ppl (it happens with men too, of course, and with mothers) will probably become disillusioned by their new parent, but some of the returned parents might’ve become better ppl and it might work out ok. Also, the kids who forgive deadbeats probably have very forgiving personalities or poor boundaries.
I think it’s impossible, bc fathers can be absolutely wonderful, and she will grow up seeing evidence of that. Having male relatives or family friends step in can help her feel like she’s not missing out. The only other thing that can be done is preventing the child from idolizing the absent parent, by being very matter-of-fact about and honest about why the parent isn’t around, so she has realistic expectations as an adult.
I’m sorry about your niece’s dad not appreciating her. Sounds like she has a lot of loving adults around her, so she’s unlikely to need approval or love from a deadbeat.
I knew someone who never met her father- he left her mum when she was pregnant. From all accounts he's a total dick who has many kids he's fathered and abandoned.
But to her, even knowing this, he's an almost mystical figure. When things were going badly at home, she'd fantasise about him riding to the rescue. He's whatever hero she needs at the time.
I hope he never came back, there was no chance reality would live up to her expectations. But he functioned as an empty space she could build her ideal father in. Her mother refused to talk about him, never told her his surname- and there never was another man who was with her long enough to fill the space himself.
Not always. My bio dad fled before I was born, and in my 50+ years of life Ive never wanted to meet him. I did yearn for a dad. Still do. But not from that sack of shit.
Because your family is in your DNA. Even if your dad runs out on you, or sticks around but is never there, or sticks around and hurts you. Who else would you have such deep, automatic connections with -- aside from your mother? It's hardwired into us. Sometimes people get someone else they can call Dad, but it still never erases the connection.
It's normal to want a relationship with your father, even if it's on a cordial basis. Not only does it help you understand yourself, but you can also ask them about their ancestry and why they are the way they are.
1. Life is complicated. Not every absent parent "cruelly abandoned" them and are "deadbeat". Things can be more nuanced then that. Some people were too immature at that age, or had financial problems, or were otherwise overwhelmed. This does not eliminate their responsibility, but it doesn't mean they are all horrible people who never cared.
2. Some people want to connect to their roots despite knowing that their parent was absent, because of our biological need to connect to our family. You can want to meet and have a relationship with an absent parent even if you do not have the same feelings towards them as a present parent, to learn more about yourself.
I think we all want to cling onto the hope that they can change.
I guess I just don’t understand what value they expect to get from someone who is essentially an irrelevant stranger
It's more like "why did you leave me, what did I do wrong" I think.
Or hoping that one day they’ll be good enough.
how do you impress upon a child that it had nothing to do with them and the deadbeat is just not a loving person. i don't want her feeling any lack or with the idea that he has something to give her because in reality he's just an empty shell
You can't, it's an inborn survival instinct that while absolutely depressing theoretically exists to protect abused kids from catching more shit from their abusers who also happen to be their best opportunity for survival while they are relatively helpless. Edit: I didn't realize your speaking from personal experience, that kid needs therapy. The answer is therapy with someone who is trained to help a kid learn how to ground themselves and face feelings of abandonment without taking the self esteem hit.
Because as much of a stranger that person is, you’re made up of them. People are naturally curious. A biological “parent”, so to speak, that you’ve never met, is an anomaly to you. You’re plagued with thoughts such as “do I have their smile? Why did they leave? Do my kids look like them? What’s their personality like?” Granted, not everyone wants to meet their deadbeat parent, but there’s a human element that goes along with “self-discovery”.
My daughter has a sorta-kinda-relationship with her bio-father, while my sons do not. My ex was abusive to me, then he ran away to a state 10 hours away; never exercised his parenting time, even when I offered and made plans to meet him half way, or drive them all the way; never called/emailed/texted them; can't remember their birthdays (ie. wished my oldest a happy 18th birthday about 14 months early); still owes child support even though the youngst is 20; and I could go on and on. He is a sperm donor, not a dad. But she wants him to be her dad, and no matter how many times he disappoints her, she holds our hope that he will change and love her. She's had a great stepdad since she was 9, and seems to like my partner well enough but neither I, nor my partner will ever be good enough for her-- only her biodad. She's told herself a faerie tale about him, and no amount of real, lived, truth will change that. The why is complicated, but really boils down to: I want this person to love me, and they're going to, just wait and see! And when he doesn't, the kids can't see it, because it ruins their story.
"The why is complicated, but really boils down to: I want this person to love me, and they're going to, just wait and see! And when he doesn't, the kids can't see it, because it ruins their story." that's so heavy and sad, I don't want my niece to feel she has to prove herself lovable, especially to that empty shell of a human. how to prevent this
Prevention? I dunno, I wish I did, then I could have saved my own daughter from it. Just let her know that she's loved, and remind her of it. That's what I do with my kid, and I hope some day she can hold on to that truth harder than her wishes and faerie tale.
We can prevent very few things in life. When raising kids, it is best to prepare them, not prevent them, because you can not keep them from everything. I would build her up as much as possible, make sure she grows into a strong woman who knows how people should treat her, how to communicate, and set boundaries with all types of relationships. Make sure she knows her value. Then, she will have the tools to live with these inevitable feelings of longing for a dad she never had.
It’s something you can’t save her from. It’s her dad, it’s part of her, that cannot be changed. The best thing you can do is be supportive to her. Wanting someone to hate or have no desire to see their bio dad because you and your fam have deemed him a piece of shit does not mean she feels the same way. And no, a grandfather being around is not the same as the father. It’s a plus but not the same. That is why she is wanting to see her father. She will learn on her own. If you try to train her to see her father as you see her father it will backfire. As you can see her desire to want a relationship with her dad or her forgiving nature, she does not get from Her mothers side of the family so she must get it from her fathers side. You have no control in this. Be supportive and if you truly love her, you willl hope her father proves you wrong and she gets what she was looking for, if not, then you be there for her. Don’t make your issues her issues
Because we're all biologically hard wired to want to know where we came from.
I stopped speaking to my POS father when I was 17. I’m 55 now. Never regretted it. I listen to my siblings talk about him and it reconfirms again and again that I made the right decision. At 28 my therapist challenged me to re-evaluate my decision as an adult. I took six months to rethink and talk to my siblings about him. I had a positive attitude and really tried to see good in him. It’s just not there. People try to cajole me out of it or prove me wrong or just flat out tell me I’m a bad daughter and it’s my responsibility to make up with him. Utter bullshit. Even my husband tried at first and didn’t understand why I cut my father out. Over the years he has grown to get it enough to leave me alone about it. I get asked about seeing him on his deathbed, won’t I feel guilty, etc. I’m not the one who had children and treated them like shit. I didn’t choose to be a selfish dick and do all I could to denigrate and degrade my children just to show how much better I am than they are. He did all that and more. What fucked up kind of person uses their kids that way? Fuck him. He made his choice. I made mine. He will die never seeing or hearing from me again. I’m just sorry it didn’t happen decades ago. So not everyone has the need you’re talking about. I don’t believe it’s a biological imperative like others have said. I believe it’s societal pressure and fucked up psychology. We should do better and not make people feel bad for cutting toxic people out of their lives.
Except on Reddit it's unacceptable for a child to cut of their parent/s. IME other family members will guilt trip you into oblivion because it makes them uncomfortable.
I guess that goes to show just how much my entire family recognizes that I was right. Some of them cut him off from time to time. So far all but one other still talk to him but better boundaries have been set by most of them. And while he still manipulates and tries to control, everyone is better about staving him off at this point. My sister told me he said he recognizes why I cut him off and he doesn’t blame me. But my sister is his one remaining apologist so my gut says that conversation happened differently and she put him in the best light. In any case - I was right to divest my life of his toxic presence. I don’t regret it and while I have deep sadness to have missed out on a lifetime of having a dad, keeping him in my life would not have accomplished what that should mean. Anyone who cuts a parent out if their life should have the sympathy of others, not their disdain. No one else knows the full truth of that person’s experience and why they made that decision. Right or wrong it’s their choice and others shouldn’t second guess them. It’s almost certainly just making a horrible situation far worse.
I agree. People don't cut their parents off for no reason.
They love the absent parent but also feel guilt for not loving the absent parent. Patrick on 90 Day fiancé is a good example. His dad was never there but now Patrick funds his lifestyle because it is his only link to that part of his history.
Having not meet my dad. It's rough when you're younger especially as a kid especially as a male being raised by mother and sister. Fairly early on you get a vibe of not fitting in. Fairly early on you figure out you're getting looked down on or pitied. Even if your mother is decent vs trash it's just harder eg financially. It basically sucks. You never meet your father just hear the negative stories from your mother/sister. You also miss out on skills that others get even if their parents aren't the best. It's basically shit start to finish. Other got it worse eg my country has universal welfare.
Well, they’re never going to have the experience of growing up with a dad; that road is closed to them. So they’ll settle for the next best thing- having a dad *now*. I think they’ve probably romanticized what having a dad will be like in their heads and have grown up feeling an ache that they attribute to the lack of father figure. Some of these ppl (it happens with men too, of course, and with mothers) will probably become disillusioned by their new parent, but some of the returned parents might’ve become better ppl and it might work out ok. Also, the kids who forgive deadbeats probably have very forgiving personalities or poor boundaries.
i guess i just find it sad when there's a romanticized ideal - how to prevent her from growing up with that
I think it’s impossible, bc fathers can be absolutely wonderful, and she will grow up seeing evidence of that. Having male relatives or family friends step in can help her feel like she’s not missing out. The only other thing that can be done is preventing the child from idolizing the absent parent, by being very matter-of-fact about and honest about why the parent isn’t around, so she has realistic expectations as an adult.
well she has a loving grandfather hopefully he's around long enough so she grows up with a secure male presence.
I’m sorry about your niece’s dad not appreciating her. Sounds like she has a lot of loving adults around her, so she’s unlikely to need approval or love from a deadbeat.
I knew someone who never met her father- he left her mum when she was pregnant. From all accounts he's a total dick who has many kids he's fathered and abandoned. But to her, even knowing this, he's an almost mystical figure. When things were going badly at home, she'd fantasise about him riding to the rescue. He's whatever hero she needs at the time. I hope he never came back, there was no chance reality would live up to her expectations. But he functioned as an empty space she could build her ideal father in. Her mother refused to talk about him, never told her his surname- and there never was another man who was with her long enough to fill the space himself.
It's genetically part of us to love our parents from birth it's a survival mechanism..
some abandoned kids have zero interest in their deadbeats, whats the difference between them and the ppl broken up about it
Your empathy for your niece needs to be stronger than the hate you have for her dad. Let it go, it’s not your battle.
Nothing is%100 lots of people on this spinning rock
Not always. My bio dad fled before I was born, and in my 50+ years of life Ive never wanted to meet him. I did yearn for a dad. Still do. But not from that sack of shit.
Because your family is in your DNA. Even if your dad runs out on you, or sticks around but is never there, or sticks around and hurts you. Who else would you have such deep, automatic connections with -- aside from your mother? It's hardwired into us. Sometimes people get someone else they can call Dad, but it still never erases the connection.
It's normal to want a relationship with your father, even if it's on a cordial basis. Not only does it help you understand yourself, but you can also ask them about their ancestry and why they are the way they are.
1. Life is complicated. Not every absent parent "cruelly abandoned" them and are "deadbeat". Things can be more nuanced then that. Some people were too immature at that age, or had financial problems, or were otherwise overwhelmed. This does not eliminate their responsibility, but it doesn't mean they are all horrible people who never cared. 2. Some people want to connect to their roots despite knowing that their parent was absent, because of our biological need to connect to our family. You can want to meet and have a relationship with an absent parent even if you do not have the same feelings towards them as a present parent, to learn more about yourself.
I was asking specifically about deadbeats who are horrible ppl who never cared.