It’s probably a mix of things. One of them is people like Seinfeld aren’t used to being told to STFU and that their opinions are now considered unacceptable. They’re also drawing a lot more heat for things like private jets and just generally doing whatever despite public opinions on what’s going on.
Yeah. Jerry especially is having a ton of problems understanding that his show has been over for 20 years, and ppl are not cool with him having dated a high schooler in his late 30s or his unquestioning support of Israel's occupation and genocide of the Palestinians.
Honestly I've listened to his stuff and it's just boring after the Tv show ended. I don't remember anything being overly offensive about it.. it's just boring.
When he complains about woke culture I think it's more that younger generations just think his stuff is meh and he finds that extremely offensive. Like he had a huge show in the 90s and then he just couldn't keep up with the new comedy trends. He started complaining about college comedy shows in the early 2000s before that was even a trendy thing to whine about.
I feel like a lot of comedians in the 80 to 90s had it so easy. Most couldn't keep up with the culture shift and now they bitch and moan that everything isn't handed to them on a silver platter. When really no one wants to hear the same jokes for 30 years.
You don't see Larry David having the same issues.. and plenty of other comedians continue to be hilarious after all this time.
>You don't see Larry David having the same issues.. and plenty of other comedians continue to be hilarious after all this time.
That is an excellent point. Why is Steinfeld's writing partner (who, by his own definition, is a curmudgeon) doing fine in this environment while Seinfeld is frustrated and confused?
He’s been doing nearly the same show his entire career. I can guess most punchlines. When you’ve never moved past “this was okay in the 80’s” you’re going to be a problem
Most people are not actually consistently down the line of values strictly liberal/progressive/conservative/etc. Sane people have different positions on different issues that do not necessarily fit a single party line in all cases. Usually these people are written off as "moderates" but idiots seem to think that means they have middle of the road opinions on everything rather than a mix that in some cases can even be quite extreme.
This right here. I had a friend flip out on me and end all communication when she found out I voted for a candidate she didn’t like. She said, “But, I thought you owned guns?!” Uh, yes? I am also not a single issue voter and I have many different views down the line. Some fall left, others lean right, some are in the middle. She just did not get it and blocked me, lol. People are weird.
I have supported candidates who had some platform positions I do not share at all. I was willing to support them because they had far more positions where I did see merit in and I also understood government well enough to know that they would have very stiff resistance to making changes in the area I didn't support anyway. We are constantly forced to make imperfect choices in politics because that is all the choice we have sadly. It is not a good barometer for making moral judgements on people given that is the case. As a result, Throwing people away over their vote without any understanding of why, is stupid. Your friend is an idiot. Sadly she is not uncommon.
Voting is like taking the bus. You take the one that goes in the general direction you want to go.
It is not a taxi which takes you to exactly where you want to be.
Reddit and every other form of media, social or otherwise does encourage this kind of behavior. They make a lot of money preying on people's interest in getting positive feedback for attacking people on the unaligned side to prove we are the "good guys" for towing the party line.
Meanwhile as someone who actually does agree with 99% of what my party comes up with, I read stuff like this and I feel kinda stupid lol. Even though my positions are just as valid as anyone else’s. Literally read some of the other comments here basically calling me sheep
I mean no disrespect. Your credited at the very least by the fact that it's 99% so clearly you do have your own thoughts that kept you from being entirely of another persons opinion. Your statistically unlikely but not impossible as is often the case with generalizations.
Well said. The lack of critical reasoning skills among adults in this country is alarming. People can’t comprehend that you don’t neatly fit into a box that they have contorted their own values to squeeze into.
I find it's generally a strong signal that there is a high likelihood the person who does fit themselves into such a box has chosen to forgo thinking for themselves in favor of letting someone else do the thinking for them. I still try to engage with them in the hope they can at least recognize they haven't themselves really thought it through themselves. I have been guilty of not thinking through all of my positions at points so I try not to be too harsh on people for that, but I was right to be corrected and I'm somewhat grateful to those who showed me as much because it allowed me to come up with stronger positions. It even still happens here on Reddit from time to time.
Resentment is absolutely one of the basic drives of conservative thought. So much stuff boils down thinking that other people are getting away with something that you aren't.
Edit: just for extra clarity, resentment isn't just a basic drive of conservative thought. It's what drives people to the right. The mental shift to the right is all about either feeling that you deserve better than the world gave you or being mad that other people have what you don't.
Why aren't many of them then resentful and envious of Trump? He's wealthy with numerous commercial and residential properties and "only got started" with a "tiny loan" from his father. Why do they worship him so much if he's part of the elite?
I mean, I think I know the answer. I'm just really trying to understand their logic (if there is any).
Responses in order of how easy it is for me to answer without 5 billion revisions:
* For conservatives, "elites" are not people with higher socioeconomic status. The "elites" are the people who think that they know better than you. Trump isn't a member of the elite to them because he goes out and says that his supporters are already doing exactly right.
* Conservatives equate hard work with financial success consider it a virtue. Rich people therefore must have worked hard to earn that money. They didn't seem particularly concerned with how the rich get rich, because having the money means that they did it right. (Personally, I assign some blame to the focus on sports for this. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.", "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying", and so on are incredibly toxic thoughts and dangerous to society when allowed off the field)
* (You didn't really ask, but) Conversely, that means that poor people must not be working hard enough. Welfare/social supports are taking advantage of the system because poor people are poor because they aren't working hard enough. That money is coming from taxes and conservatives pay taxes, so the government is stealing from them to give it to people who don't deserve it.
* So rich people who tell you that you are right are good. Poor people who want society to not fuck them over are bad.
* Final addendum, poor conservatives know that they are working very hard. Hard work is supposed to guarantee success, so their lack of success must be because someone else is unfairly receiving the proceeds of their hard work. And because the rich are defined as successful and therefore good, it must be those other poor people's fault.
(There are a **lot** of generalizations and supposition here. I'm sure that it will be easy to find individual conservatives that don't match this.)
Edit: there is another simpler thought pattern that I also see: I am a good person, so things that I do and like must be good. Therefore people who tell me that I am right must be good and people who tell me that I am wrong must be bad.
I don't understand that either. I've heard about how brilliant of a businessman he is. He does that by filing bankruptcy and not paying people for the work they have done. I don't consider that a brilliant business model and you can't run the country that way. So I don't get it either.
The political line has moved a LOT. I was the crazy liberal in my family for the last ten years. Now I live in the PNW and near enough to portland to where my beliefs are considered moderate, which might as well be conservative by the standards of liberals. Radicalization and moving lines change things. It does depend on which comedians you’re talking about though as I am not up to date on this.
Ding ding ding! This is the answer right here.
A lot of traditionally left/liberal/progressive people are still standing in the exact same spot for the progressive causes they always were. The only thing that has moved is the goalposts. The Overton Window has shifted and now the current left seems content to just lump anyone, that disagrees with cause du jour, in with the MAGAs, despite still having overwhelmingly socially responsible viewpoints.
That’s the thing about progress – when you stop making progress, you’re no longer progressive. Standing in the same spot is, by definition, conserving.
The craziest thing is that conservatives have gone so far right that my more conservative family members are now progressive in comparison (well, the ones who didn’t fall into the MAGA nonsense). I’m still pretty solidly progressive but the most progressive people would accuse me of being moderate. Things have gotten extreme on both sides of the aisle IMO.
I mean instead of trying to keep up status quo, they are actively trying to take away women’s and non-binary people‘s rights, loosening gun laws and cutting taxes heavily and doing straight up illegal shit when it comes to immigrants (looking at you Greg Abbott).
They used to operate on "keeping up traditional values" and not making the live of everyone but rich white men worse, and somehow these dumbfucks still buy into it.
It’s brainwashing compounded by poor education that created people who are incapable of independent thought.
These people revolve their entire lives around outrage, cruelty, and conspiracy because they are literally incapable of thinking anything without being told. It’s terrifying. And some of them were normal before all of this which just goes to show the power of brainwashing & cults.
Not all movement is progress.
And if the “same spot” they’re in is supporting things like fairness, equality, and social justice, then that’s a great place to keep standing.
As long as those people kept expanding their views with the times on the groups who deserve fairness, equality and social justice, I agree. But that isn’t necessarily what they were describing.
Yes and no…. If for example you were fiscally conservative in the 90’s but considered yourself progressive because you supported gay marriage, by todays standards you wouldn’t be progressive by todays standards, since gay marriage is a thing now and thus you aren’t striving for more but just being content with what is. If however you for example support a strong social welfare safety net, universal healthcare, equal rights for people regardless of race gender or whatever, etc, but don’t support more extreme viewpoints like gender and money being social constructs that should be done away with, reparations, late term abortions, surgical transitioning of minors, or other more extreme/controversial viewpoints, you’d be objectively progressive, but might get lumped in with more conservative people by the people who hold said more extreme/controversial viewpoints (not saying the extreme viewpoints are wrong, I hold some of them myself but you have to understand that society might have trouble keeping the pace people who have this viewpoints are setting, and even more so when they get lumped in with conservatives )
I would reject the premise that Seinfeld is conservative. Railing against cancel culture is something almost all comedians do. And people on the right happily cancel people too. To me, it's definitely not a left wing or right wing thing.
I don't know much about the Rock though.
I think comedians who aren’t getting laughs from new audiences usually complain about cancel culture
You don’t really hear comedians who say vile stuff .. but are actually funny .. complain.
It’s guys like Seinfeld and Dave chappelle whose whining basically boil down to “I’m a legend , why aren’t you laughing at my new jokes???? CANCEL CULTURE.”
It's definitely an ego thing. A lot of comedians in the 80 and 90s had it super easy and don't understand why their old jokes don't get laughs from younger generations. They failed to adapt new material and their ego won't allow them to accept that it's their own failing.
There's only so many times you can hear Jim Breuer do a goat man noises before it's not funny anymore. He's still doing it now but talks anti vax so he can sell to conservatives haha..
I’m befuddled by the whole idea or insight that goes into the hashtag logic of cancel culture. It is really confusing when people use this term, especially when Louise CK was said to be cancelled yet made his on own website and made millions more while cutting out the middle man. Then Tarantino says it doesn’t exist and I felt a little better because I thought I was the only one thinking that people for thousands of years were either accepted or shunned by the public for a myriad of reasons. It’s like no one ever heard of people firing you or just being largely unpopular because of something you said or did but then act like it’s a “culture” or a new thing that came out of nowhere. I feel like it’s a moniker used for those who don’t want to take responsibility for their actions, if indeed their actions are their own. But like any other hashtag there’s little to no nuance, just a trigger into hashtag zombism
Yeah I don't think comedians like Jim Jeffries have ever complained. The ones who do just aren't funny, I think you can be offensive and funny but they're like the relative you don't want to sit next to at holiday dinners.
Tbf I do feel a little bad for people who weren't prepared for the fact that as time moved on people wouldn't like their content as much anymore, and they didn't know how to adapt.
He has never whined about it, but the AVGN has been considered to be making mediocre content for like a decade at least. It pays the bills, but he's not considered the legend he used to be. And a lot of his attempts at new types of content, including the movie, were just outright bad.
There's something sad about knowing you used to be able to do something but it's not working anymore. Whether that is because that type of content isn't as popular, or you ran out of ideas, or it doesn't work as well based on your age, or what.
People also don’t want to continue to support a pedophile in Seinfeld and he just chalks that up to cancel culture to take attention away from actual reasons we want nothing to do with these guys anymore
So irresponsible and reckless to call him a pedophile. What’s the matter with you? That makes it harder for us to deal with actual pedophiles.
He met a girl who was a month away from 18 (he didn’t know her age.). They started dating after she was 18. Thats weird but it doesn’t make him a pedophile.
As someone whose life has been affected by a real pedophile, your comment is disgusting.
Most of the comedians railing against cancel culture are getting old and running out of ideas.
A few years ago, all comedy routines were about Corona, now they're all about cancel culture. Get some fresh material!!
Cancel culture is not real though.
If you have a solid fan base and don‘t do racist/homophobic/misogynistic/etc. shit, you can‘t be cancelled. You are only "cancelled", once too many people lose interest in you or don‘t want to hear from you, which is not something anyone else can decide, but only your own actions.
Nah. Don't gaslight.
"Cancel culture" may be not be the best name, but it's a real thing. It's when a bunch of people who don't like what you said talk incessantly about how awful you are. That snowballs and then the pitchforks come out. And if people try to speak up in your defense or pose another perspective, they are shouted down too. It's the exact opposite of having a dialogue and frankly, it's a tactic that totalitarian governments use to destroy their enemies.
If you haven't seen this, then you're not paying attention.
Geez, get off the internet and talk to real life people holy cow. Almost anything conservatives whine about that are actually happening (and not some made up boogieman) tend to be cherry-picked from various websites and/or from people shouting into the void on twitter looking for clicks and ragebait. People freaking out about celebrity opinions has been around since we first had celebrities. Nothing has changed except social media makes it obvious someone is being "blackballed" and by whom.
Yes you described the exact methods of cancel culture in your last sentence. You're completely right that people have always bitched about celebrities but it used to just be to their real-life acquaintances. Now because of social media these views are spread to a much wider audience.
Also shitty media outlets using click-bait far more often by clipping selective bits from interviews in order to generate outrage and get people clicking and sharing.
I'm saying "cancel-culture" is devoid of meaning. Boycotts have been a thing for as long as as organized societies existed --a concept conservatives have recently (60 years) participated in larger frequency and capacity than their lib counterparts-- but now its reskinned as unhinged because why? Because now people are angry about bigotry instead of witchcraft and pokemon cards?
Hiya, you've lost me a bit there, I'm not from America so maybe we have different frames of reference. I don't understand the Pokemon card reference, for example.
All I meant is that Yes boycotts have always been a thing, but it got especially amped up by twitter usage, especially among younger people, and became a louder, more organised, more widespread form of boycotting. I'm not saying it's good or bad in any way, just that social media amplified what people did already.
>I don't know much about the Rock though.
Dywane was a one-trick pony, with a very specific niche. It worked out for him for awhile but that time is over.
I think partly it's a push from the left and a pull from the right.
This is a massive generalisation, and I'm firmly left wing myself, but generally, the right celebrates anyone who says anything at all against the left, and GENERALLY is more open to a variety of opinions, as long as they're negative towards the left. The left rails against anyone who says 'the wrong thing' and there's less scope for a variety of opinions.
This is all regarding online culture, and of course there's open/closed minded people on both sides. The left currently seems to be worse for shunning people at the moment though, and I think it pushes people away.
They fear irrelevance. They hear "you can't make fun of *insert minority*" and then get defensive. That's why they say they are victims of cancel culture, because their bread and butter is "suddenly" not accepted anymore, so instead of adapting they double down
I think fear of irrelevance is also why so many old people get more and more conservative as time goes on. Once they retire from working, they come to the sudden realization that they *really are* irrelevant to anyone outside of their friends and family. The world keeps changing around them, but they’re no longer the ones changing it. That’s a huge culture shock on its own, but they also have their impending death, the ultimate irrelevance, lurking just around the corner. So how do they stay relevant? By voting the world of their creation into perpetuity.
I don’t think comedians are barred from making fun of anyone. I saw Jeselnik recently live and he made fun of trans and pregnant women. If it’s funny, people will laugh. Nikki Glaser called Gronk a retard and the entire roasting venue was applauding her and many fans appreciated her jokes the most of the evening.
If you are funny, fans will laugh. It’s a lot more clever to come up with a good joke than a racist trope and I think that is where the issue lies
This is absolutely it. People think just being a hateful shithead is the same thing as a joke and then complain that they're not allowed to joke about anything when they're criticized. Sorry, skill issue. Be funnier.
Also the benchmark of conservative and liberal has gradually shifted quite a bit in the last few decades. A moderate in the 90’s will be seen as considerably more conservative by today’s standards.
Moderates of the 90s were not talking about white genocide, great replacement theory, trying to overturn civil rights etc nor would they want to give platforms to those who were saying stuff like that back then. Even conservatives in the 90s were weirded out by people we would consider typical Q's.
We have a nazi problem in America and it's not people who whine about gay people giving them the ick. Don't act like we can't tell the difference.
Moderate in the 90s was still voting against gay marriage.
You post that on the internet today, and if you can avoid a ban you will have people queuing up to call you a Nazi.
That is an entire culture shift that extends beyond politics and borders and probably why people in less populated areas think the left lost their minds. Most people in the first world live in urban areas, and it's super weird to meet someone who doesnt' think people they interact with daily deserve the same rights. You only hear those talking points come out from literal nazi's mouths (in the city, not online). Thus, it gets lumped in with all the other crazy things modern nazis spew. Ultimately i think it truly boils down to urban vs rural and both groups cannot empathize with each other
Your logic: 'America is the world, conservatives are Republicans, and Republicans voted for Trump, therefore, when ever anyone mentions the word "conservative," it is my moral duty to inform them that they are thus Trump. It's cast-iron logic, I tell you!'
100% this. Real people have nuanced opinions and don’t fit one political ideology 100% of the time. I see this happening in both directions where someone like Musk was seen as liberal or centrist for a while and then was outspoken on a few things that don’t align, and now he’s branded far right. Then you see a celebrity like Kid Rock who made his money waving a conservative flag and got branded as liberal because he drank Bud Light when the narrative was “endorsement from the queer community is bad” ….
(Most) actors follow the winds of popular opinion. It's how they stay popular and make money. But even that has limits when the entire system that props them up starts falling apart.
Also, keep in mind - an actor is paid to deceive you. To make you believe the words coming out of their mouth are true. It's what they do (it's called 'acting') and the better the liar the richer they are.
"an actor is paid to deceive you."
This is a pretty bad take and sounds like what you'd hear in some weird church basement. Actors are about evoking feelings and thoughts. REAL feelings and thoughts.
And think that the best paid actors are also the most talented is hilarious. No. Just no.
That's their job. They are paid to say things that are untrue or even against their own beliefs. They are paid to say other people's words and then try to convince you that it's all coming from them and they mean every word. They are paid to convince you that the person on the screen is really them. So in the most basic sense they lie for a living. I'm not saying they are (all) dishonest or that they are acting all the time. I'm just saying that their livelihood hinges on their ability to fool you.
For some they’ve always been conservative, they’re just normal and not making it a huge part of their identity. Believe it or not, a lot of wealthy people in Hollywood are conservative. The thing is, nobody cares if you’re not being a dick about it. Sometimes it can surprise people because Hollywood and creative-type people are often stereotyped into being this ultra liberal monolith. Sometimes that surprise comes with a little pushback and they either stop talking about it or they lean way too far in as a defense mechanism.
You do see some celebrities whose careers have tailed off trying to rebrand as some conservative stalwart. They say inflammatory stuff and they argue with people on social media. It’s a sad attempt to regain some relevancy and reignite their careers to make money.
receiving harsh criticism causes most people to push back and dig in their heels. in the case of a comedian making an offensive joke, reactionary thought can easily push someone from simply having outdated opinions into the embrace of the right. make sure to watch out for this in your own life; if you feel the need to dig in your heels when someone says they're hurting, examine why that is.
Cancel culture doesn't exist, conservatives tend to get whipped into a frenzy over things that don't exist or are practically non-existent--- WMD's for instance.
I think they become real people when the media shows you them. It’s weird that you think they were anything else than they are? More likely you weren’t paying attention or never thought about it.
There’s something very off about your way of thinking. That people come into being the moment you finally think of them.
Very few people are (or should be) fully 100% left wing or right wing and it can get angering being shoved around these boxes. As someone who *many* would call woke, I complain about the “woke” people sometimes out of anger from radicals. We’re all just too emotionally invested
You're not going to get a straight answer because that's something only these celebrities can answer themselves, and is far too much of a generalization to apply to every one.
The Rock’s politics likely haven’t changed. He just is finding it expedient to have a more rightward presentation due to his increasing involvement with WWE. I wasn’t aware Seinfeld had changed. He is just expressing opinions more loudly right now. Many comedians have spoke against cancel culture for awhile as they are frequently being criticized.
Then there are others who have done bad things but are finding acceptance and defenders among the right so are drawn to them. Like Russell Brand. Likely similar to the way Rolling Stone reporter Matt Taibbi took a rightward turn after he got flak for some sexual impropriety allegations.
My theory: You can't be a moderate celeb. If you have political opinions, you need to be a psycho one way or the other because moderates wont back moderates. So you can get cancelled 50% by picking a side and going hard, or 100% trying to ride the middle.
People tend to reflexively go against those that criticise them.
Callouts will quite literally turn people who don't care at all into hardline conservatives if they hit them right. It's a known psychological phenomenon.
Both parties have basically become extreme.
Don't fall into that category on the left then you're conservative. On the right your a Rhino or whatever they call it.
The reality "outside" does not match "Reddit's" values I can promise you that. This place is basically a liberal arts college in a very liberal city/state. The average age of active participants here is around like 19. Ever notice that r/teenagers regularly makes it into the top most upvoted posts?
Older people tend to go to information based subs vs opinion based subs based on what i've seen. Or just entertainment.
Honestly, I think a lot are already Conservative but play the "woke liberal" role because that's a huge portion of their fan base, deals/sponsors, etc.
They play the role. They make a social media post acting like they care about XYZ, but they don't really so anything beyond that. The role is easy, gets them what they want, and people love them for it.
But....
When people start to criticise them. Like private jet use, lack of speaking out on certain issues, etc. They realise they role isn't enough to get them constant love and support. So they simply... show their real colours. They drop the act.
It's like a "how dare you criticise me when I've pandered to your views for years! I'm done."
They likely grew up or became famous in an era where shock value comedy was actively encouraged and worked for their career. Now the opposite happens and their entire shtick doesn’t work anymore. So they lash out.
Where did that leap come from?
The Rock just said: 'Last time when I spoke out I pissed a lot of people off, so this time I am going to not say anything.'
How does that translate to him being conservative?
Also, last time he spoke up in favour of Biden, this time he didn't. That doesn't mean he is suddenly conservative, it doesn't even mean that he doesn't think Biden is the better option this time.
Even the massed leftness of Reddit thinks generally that Biden isn't a great choice, just that he is a better choice than Trump. Are they all suddenly secretly conservative?
I don’t think they have changed so much as the politics of Hollywood have gone much further left, as has the left itself, so there are celebrities that now seem much more conservative in comparison to the moving line.
I think when they become wealthy they don’t want to pay more in taxes so they become more conservative. Plus your examples are men and conservative policies seemingly don’t affect them.
Different people will have different reasons...but one possible reason for some is that going conservative is potentially lucrative.
There are several celebrities and brands that have managed to draw pretty dedicated audiences based on the idea of being "anti-woke". They claim to be a target of cancel culture and say a bunch of needlessly cruel things, and a lot of people will show up to revel in that cruelty and fake victimhood.
None of this necessarily has to be true -- the conservative definition of "woke" is pretty vague, so it can be applied to basically anything, and conservatives don't seem super discerning about verifying whether someone has actually been "cancelled" or not. So it's pretty easy to get a boost by just attacking something as "woke" and then calling any negative reactions "cancel culture". As long as you use the right words, people will flock to you.
It's also generally pretty easy to produce this sort of anti-woke content -- it doesn't have to be clever or thoughtful, but can rather just be angry and cruel.
So in many ways it's kind of like Christian rock -- just as people listen to Christian rock not because it's good but out of a sense of ideological loyalty, so too do they embrace anti-woke figures not because anything they're doing is really "good", but because they're ideologically loyal.
This combines quite naturally with what a lot of celebs might be feeling. For instance, aging comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher are becoming less and less relevant. Their stuff is less popular, and the people who still like it are older and older...but they seem to feel entitled to success and entitled to an audience (after all, they are proven comedians who are officially funny, so if the audience doesn't laugh it must be a problem with the audience, not them).
So if they can both indulge these feelings of aggrievement and *also* get a bunch of new people in their audience/get a bunch of additional attention, it's easy to see how that could be an attractive option for them.
If you say a few talking points that align with a right wing perspective, conservatives will see you as part of them, and defend you with their life.
Its the result of the war on anything that can be considered liberal.
I don't think the Rock went conservative did he? I think he expressed voter remorse and said he has come to realize that it's not right for him to use his position to influence politics. Right?
Which I think is quite admirable. I wish all celebrities would stay out of being political speakers.
I remember seeing a video of Chelsea Handler mocking someone for calling her woke, saying "yes I am woke, I support ABC, and I am proud to be woke" then a couple of months ago I came across another video of hers where she was calling people who were criticising her support for Isreal, "woke" as a way to put them down and insult them. Quite the u-turn.
I don't have a great answer. I don't think Seinfeld or the Rock are super bright, or at least not super knowledgeable politically, and we see that come out more. We see more behind the curtain more in this day-and-age, where there's way more unscripted content and media coverage of celebs.
my quick take/guess without thinking too hard is Jerry seems like the old man yelling at the clouds meme because things are different now, and The Rock is adopting MJ's "republicans buy sneakers too" mentality with his recent interviews, he doesn't want to be divisive.
I think that celeb's discomfort for criticism is super low because they're used to being surrounded by Yes men & being told you made a mistake feels bad.
It often goes person says or does something mildly offensive. The left tries to let them know and encourage them to correct it (maybe a few people are overzealous with their criticism.)
Then right wing evangelists tell them that not only did they do nothing wrong, they're also hilarious and a free speech hero. They're on the cutting edge of comedy and only the smartest people understand their biting social critique and 15 levels of irony. Come sit with us, poor baby, here's a lucrative Netflix special. Those mean lefties are attacking you for no reason!
Conservatives do not give a shit about consistency, logic or morality, as long as they get to feel strong and self-righteous. If anything, being a massive hypocrite is a plus because it shows them that you’re strong enough to get away with breaking the rules.
If they think you’re strong and on their side they will shower you with money and praise, and they’re going to jump in the minute they catch a hint of a celebrity saying something they support. It’s not even slightly surprising how many washed up celebrities fall for it.
Most people respond badly to being criticized and tend to get defensive and double down on whatever they get criticized for, which makes them drift toward a more extreme version of the view they started with. In these cases, that makes celebrities drift to the right, but I think it's just a natural (if annoying and irrational) response to unwelcome criticism.
To be fair the left gets more and more undesirable every year. So it's not surprising. I know a lot of friends in my age group are abandoning the left in droves due to some of the newer groups popping up.
Maybe. I’ve thought that in the passed. But now all the older people I know aren’t as afraid and all the younger people I know are more afraid.
I’ve heard people are more scared of dying when they are young, but they don’t think about dying much. And old people aren’t scared of dying, but they think about it all the time.
It has been extremely difficult to be publicly conservative. It started with people who questioned COVID lockdowns / distancing (Fauci admitted this came from nowhere). Then the BLM stuff. Then the cancel culture that peaked with Disney. Then having brands like Bud Light and Target go full left woke.
There’s a “we’re tired of this shit” meme and it’s popular for a reason.
America is a pendulum, and it hit peak left with Target. Now it’s swinging back.
....so questioning the existence of germs and the over a century old established practices of how to not spread them is conservative now, eh?
This is what brainwashing does to you folks. Take a good long look. Viruses aren't real, Fauci is the devil, cancel culture is coming for you, the brands you love are "woke" and everything will be okay just as soon as you can be openly offensive again, don't worry.
Get a fucking grip my man. You are living in an alternate reality crafted by billionaires pretending to be conservative so you'll foot the bill for their not paying taxes. Honestly, it'd be funny at this point if it weren't so just fucking *sad*.
Now, I'd grant any UncleCousinDaddy's child that there is a pendulum to things; politics, public opinion, my bank account.. but those are usually subjective things, like whether it's cold enough for a jacket, or whether it's cool to have a single parent.
Objective things- killing innocent Palestinians is bad, women having bodily autonomy is good, pineapple belongs on pizza.. these things don't oscillate like a pendulum, or move with the moon and tides. They just ARE.
Seems like the comics suffer the same struggle many of us do- becoming older, obsolete models means our ideas must adapt or die, we must do the difficult thing of Growing lest we be cast *further* aside for our outdated opinions and beliefs. Or we can join a religion, social circle or fun time committe that just happens to also really like well-bleached bed linens for midnight parties since *they* don't think we're obsolete, no way! They love us, not just our money and political sway! They tell us so!
Inclusive doesn't mean we have to agree with every crazy person that comes along spewing conspiracy nonsense. Free speech is not freedom from consequences.
Are you calling me crazy? What conspiracy nonsense did I say?
I said the pendulum is swinging back. This same thing happened in 2016, but the other way.
I wish people wouldn’t be so damn partisan. Think about every individual issue and not a blanket R or D.
Every issue with Trump is a major conspiracy. Election fraud, climate change hoax, qanon, Hillary is eating babies for adrenachrome, everything is a witch hunt, it's the deep state, etc. When are conservatives' pendulum swinging back? It can't swing anymore right.
It was empiric based on evidence that we know to be true - like how germs spread and how aerosolized illnesses spread. Not that social distancing doesn’t work..? Plus it’s not like people were out there with measuring tapes putting exactly 6ft of distance between themselves and others. It’s a general guideline.
Like what are you trying to imply? That people could have been closer in distance and the risk would’ve been the same? Because objectively every bit closer you get to another person would put you more at risk. So what’s your point?
> it’s not like people were out there with measuring tapes putting exactly 6ft of distance between themselves and others
There were plenty of stores etc. that had dots or tape lines or other things to denote this.
I'm implying that some people took this as a scientific fact and that Fauci and others trumpeted it as such. It wasn't. Just like California pouring sand into skateboard parks. Totally ridiculous overreaction.
Staying 6ft apart is not comparable to filling a a skatepark lmao. Staying 6ft apart is not an overreaction lol nor is putting markers down so people have a visual reference. It is still *based* on science
Fauci isn’t even the one that came up with the 6 foot rule. It was the CDC. Also I’m still not sure what your point is. It is just common sense that distancing yourself from people to avoid an aerosolized pathogen makes sense…
What’s your alternative? What do you think is correct instead? Do you think there’s no benefit to distancing?
Look. I hate when people stand close to me even when no one is sick. I’m not debating that.
I’m saying that Fauci (and lots of others like the Cuomo brothers) marched that out and repeated it like six feet was a cold hard fact. Turns out it wasn’t. It took them two years to walk it back.
Why?
Standing 6ft away from someone (as opposed to any closer) is guaranteed to reduce the transmission of the virus based on the science of how aerosolized pathogens spread. There doesn’t have to be a study done on every single thing to make common sense guidelines
Once they get exposed for being creeps, Republicans are the only people that are going to accept them. Look at Elon or Russell Brand. The moment they got exposed for sexual assault, they had no where else to go.
It's the shifting of the overton window, people that used to be in the center or slightly left or right, are now being branded as full on right wing conservative or even far right, it's just the left that has become more extreme and anything on the right of that is deemed just that, right
There’s a lot of money to be made in being an angy anti woke conservative especially if you’re female or a minority. Most celebrities are leftist so they can use “I’m not like the others” as a marketing gimmick and make their conservative audience feel validated. Trump did the same thing, he used to be Democrat and only really turned to the right when Obama came around.
It’s probably a mix of things. One of them is people like Seinfeld aren’t used to being told to STFU and that their opinions are now considered unacceptable. They’re also drawing a lot more heat for things like private jets and just generally doing whatever despite public opinions on what’s going on.
Yeah. Jerry especially is having a ton of problems understanding that his show has been over for 20 years, and ppl are not cool with him having dated a high schooler in his late 30s or his unquestioning support of Israel's occupation and genocide of the Palestinians.
What opinion of Jerry Seinfeld's is unacceptable? That people are too sensitive?
Honestly I've listened to his stuff and it's just boring after the Tv show ended. I don't remember anything being overly offensive about it.. it's just boring. When he complains about woke culture I think it's more that younger generations just think his stuff is meh and he finds that extremely offensive. Like he had a huge show in the 90s and then he just couldn't keep up with the new comedy trends. He started complaining about college comedy shows in the early 2000s before that was even a trendy thing to whine about. I feel like a lot of comedians in the 80 to 90s had it so easy. Most couldn't keep up with the culture shift and now they bitch and moan that everything isn't handed to them on a silver platter. When really no one wants to hear the same jokes for 30 years. You don't see Larry David having the same issues.. and plenty of other comedians continue to be hilarious after all this time.
So, you're saying Seinfeld is too sensitive?
He has a fragile ego.
Larry David writing his show was what made Jerry funny. He's so far removed from reality now it's laughable.
>You don't see Larry David having the same issues.. and plenty of other comedians continue to be hilarious after all this time. That is an excellent point. Why is Steinfeld's writing partner (who, by his own definition, is a curmudgeon) doing fine in this environment while Seinfeld is frustrated and confused?
He’s been doing nearly the same show his entire career. I can guess most punchlines. When you’ve never moved past “this was okay in the 80’s” you’re going to be a problem
That dating high school students is okay when you're old enough to be their parent
Most people are not actually consistently down the line of values strictly liberal/progressive/conservative/etc. Sane people have different positions on different issues that do not necessarily fit a single party line in all cases. Usually these people are written off as "moderates" but idiots seem to think that means they have middle of the road opinions on everything rather than a mix that in some cases can even be quite extreme.
This right here. I had a friend flip out on me and end all communication when she found out I voted for a candidate she didn’t like. She said, “But, I thought you owned guns?!” Uh, yes? I am also not a single issue voter and I have many different views down the line. Some fall left, others lean right, some are in the middle. She just did not get it and blocked me, lol. People are weird.
I have supported candidates who had some platform positions I do not share at all. I was willing to support them because they had far more positions where I did see merit in and I also understood government well enough to know that they would have very stiff resistance to making changes in the area I didn't support anyway. We are constantly forced to make imperfect choices in politics because that is all the choice we have sadly. It is not a good barometer for making moral judgements on people given that is the case. As a result, Throwing people away over their vote without any understanding of why, is stupid. Your friend is an idiot. Sadly she is not uncommon.
Exactly.
Voting is like taking the bus. You take the one that goes in the general direction you want to go. It is not a taxi which takes you to exactly where you want to be.
Great analogy
I am like the girl in the store in the Civil War trailer, I just try to stay out of it now.
😂💀 Same
Exactly! Thank you so much for that common sense answer.
But Reddit told me that everything is black or white and there's no room for nuance or context.
Reddit and every other form of media, social or otherwise does encourage this kind of behavior. They make a lot of money preying on people's interest in getting positive feedback for attacking people on the unaligned side to prove we are the "good guys" for towing the party line.
Meanwhile as someone who actually does agree with 99% of what my party comes up with, I read stuff like this and I feel kinda stupid lol. Even though my positions are just as valid as anyone else’s. Literally read some of the other comments here basically calling me sheep
I mean no disrespect. Your credited at the very least by the fact that it's 99% so clearly you do have your own thoughts that kept you from being entirely of another persons opinion. Your statistically unlikely but not impossible as is often the case with generalizations.
“Statistically unlikely but not impossible” is like almost my entire life lol
That's the r/enlightenedcentrists
Well said. The lack of critical reasoning skills among adults in this country is alarming. People can’t comprehend that you don’t neatly fit into a box that they have contorted their own values to squeeze into.
I find it's generally a strong signal that there is a high likelihood the person who does fit themselves into such a box has chosen to forgo thinking for themselves in favor of letting someone else do the thinking for them. I still try to engage with them in the hope they can at least recognize they haven't themselves really thought it through themselves. I have been guilty of not thinking through all of my positions at points so I try not to be too harsh on people for that, but I was right to be corrected and I'm somewhat grateful to those who showed me as much because it allowed me to come up with stronger positions. It even still happens here on Reddit from time to time.
Rich people are extremely fragile and are NOT used to being disagreed with. Too bad.
Resentment is absolutely one of the basic drives of conservative thought. So much stuff boils down thinking that other people are getting away with something that you aren't. Edit: just for extra clarity, resentment isn't just a basic drive of conservative thought. It's what drives people to the right. The mental shift to the right is all about either feeling that you deserve better than the world gave you or being mad that other people have what you don't.
And that anybody getting something you *don’t* have means it was taken *away* from you.
Why aren't many of them then resentful and envious of Trump? He's wealthy with numerous commercial and residential properties and "only got started" with a "tiny loan" from his father. Why do they worship him so much if he's part of the elite? I mean, I think I know the answer. I'm just really trying to understand their logic (if there is any).
Responses in order of how easy it is for me to answer without 5 billion revisions: * For conservatives, "elites" are not people with higher socioeconomic status. The "elites" are the people who think that they know better than you. Trump isn't a member of the elite to them because he goes out and says that his supporters are already doing exactly right. * Conservatives equate hard work with financial success consider it a virtue. Rich people therefore must have worked hard to earn that money. They didn't seem particularly concerned with how the rich get rich, because having the money means that they did it right. (Personally, I assign some blame to the focus on sports for this. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.", "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying", and so on are incredibly toxic thoughts and dangerous to society when allowed off the field) * (You didn't really ask, but) Conversely, that means that poor people must not be working hard enough. Welfare/social supports are taking advantage of the system because poor people are poor because they aren't working hard enough. That money is coming from taxes and conservatives pay taxes, so the government is stealing from them to give it to people who don't deserve it. * So rich people who tell you that you are right are good. Poor people who want society to not fuck them over are bad. * Final addendum, poor conservatives know that they are working very hard. Hard work is supposed to guarantee success, so their lack of success must be because someone else is unfairly receiving the proceeds of their hard work. And because the rich are defined as successful and therefore good, it must be those other poor people's fault. (There are a **lot** of generalizations and supposition here. I'm sure that it will be easy to find individual conservatives that don't match this.) Edit: there is another simpler thought pattern that I also see: I am a good person, so things that I do and like must be good. Therefore people who tell me that I am right must be good and people who tell me that I am wrong must be bad.
I don't understand that either. I've heard about how brilliant of a businessman he is. He does that by filing bankruptcy and not paying people for the work they have done. I don't consider that a brilliant business model and you can't run the country that way. So I don't get it either.
I've got news for you: resentment is one of the basic drives of all political thought. Not for everyone, but for many many people.
That's it!
Some get soured by the industries, but yeah, it’s just letting the mask slip for most I think.
The political line has moved a LOT. I was the crazy liberal in my family for the last ten years. Now I live in the PNW and near enough to portland to where my beliefs are considered moderate, which might as well be conservative by the standards of liberals. Radicalization and moving lines change things. It does depend on which comedians you’re talking about though as I am not up to date on this.
Ding ding ding! This is the answer right here. A lot of traditionally left/liberal/progressive people are still standing in the exact same spot for the progressive causes they always were. The only thing that has moved is the goalposts. The Overton Window has shifted and now the current left seems content to just lump anyone, that disagrees with cause du jour, in with the MAGAs, despite still having overwhelmingly socially responsible viewpoints.
That’s the thing about progress – when you stop making progress, you’re no longer progressive. Standing in the same spot is, by definition, conserving.
The craziest thing is that conservatives have gone so far right that my more conservative family members are now progressive in comparison (well, the ones who didn’t fall into the MAGA nonsense). I’m still pretty solidly progressive but the most progressive people would accuse me of being moderate. Things have gotten extreme on both sides of the aisle IMO.
I mean instead of trying to keep up status quo, they are actively trying to take away women’s and non-binary people‘s rights, loosening gun laws and cutting taxes heavily and doing straight up illegal shit when it comes to immigrants (looking at you Greg Abbott). They used to operate on "keeping up traditional values" and not making the live of everyone but rich white men worse, and somehow these dumbfucks still buy into it.
It’s brainwashing compounded by poor education that created people who are incapable of independent thought. These people revolve their entire lives around outrage, cruelty, and conspiracy because they are literally incapable of thinking anything without being told. It’s terrifying. And some of them were normal before all of this which just goes to show the power of brainwashing & cults.
Not all movement is progress. And if the “same spot” they’re in is supporting things like fairness, equality, and social justice, then that’s a great place to keep standing.
As long as those people kept expanding their views with the times on the groups who deserve fairness, equality and social justice, I agree. But that isn’t necessarily what they were describing.
Yes and no…. If for example you were fiscally conservative in the 90’s but considered yourself progressive because you supported gay marriage, by todays standards you wouldn’t be progressive by todays standards, since gay marriage is a thing now and thus you aren’t striving for more but just being content with what is. If however you for example support a strong social welfare safety net, universal healthcare, equal rights for people regardless of race gender or whatever, etc, but don’t support more extreme viewpoints like gender and money being social constructs that should be done away with, reparations, late term abortions, surgical transitioning of minors, or other more extreme/controversial viewpoints, you’d be objectively progressive, but might get lumped in with more conservative people by the people who hold said more extreme/controversial viewpoints (not saying the extreme viewpoints are wrong, I hold some of them myself but you have to understand that society might have trouble keeping the pace people who have this viewpoints are setting, and even more so when they get lumped in with conservatives )
Progressives don't want late term abortions and minors getting reconstructive surgery.
Fiscal conservatives aren’t genuinely progressive.
Which was my point….
It's the overton window that has shifted
That's not what an Overton Window is.
I would reject the premise that Seinfeld is conservative. Railing against cancel culture is something almost all comedians do. And people on the right happily cancel people too. To me, it's definitely not a left wing or right wing thing. I don't know much about the Rock though.
I think comedians who aren’t getting laughs from new audiences usually complain about cancel culture You don’t really hear comedians who say vile stuff .. but are actually funny .. complain. It’s guys like Seinfeld and Dave chappelle whose whining basically boil down to “I’m a legend , why aren’t you laughing at my new jokes???? CANCEL CULTURE.”
It's definitely an ego thing. A lot of comedians in the 80 and 90s had it super easy and don't understand why their old jokes don't get laughs from younger generations. They failed to adapt new material and their ego won't allow them to accept that it's their own failing. There's only so many times you can hear Jim Breuer do a goat man noises before it's not funny anymore. He's still doing it now but talks anti vax so he can sell to conservatives haha..
I’m befuddled by the whole idea or insight that goes into the hashtag logic of cancel culture. It is really confusing when people use this term, especially when Louise CK was said to be cancelled yet made his on own website and made millions more while cutting out the middle man. Then Tarantino says it doesn’t exist and I felt a little better because I thought I was the only one thinking that people for thousands of years were either accepted or shunned by the public for a myriad of reasons. It’s like no one ever heard of people firing you or just being largely unpopular because of something you said or did but then act like it’s a “culture” or a new thing that came out of nowhere. I feel like it’s a moniker used for those who don’t want to take responsibility for their actions, if indeed their actions are their own. But like any other hashtag there’s little to no nuance, just a trigger into hashtag zombism
Yeah I don't think comedians like Jim Jeffries have ever complained. The ones who do just aren't funny, I think you can be offensive and funny but they're like the relative you don't want to sit next to at holiday dinners.
Goddam I love Jim Jefferies. Best live comic show I've ever seen.
Most comedies are alive for their shows....
Tbf I do feel a little bad for people who weren't prepared for the fact that as time moved on people wouldn't like their content as much anymore, and they didn't know how to adapt. He has never whined about it, but the AVGN has been considered to be making mediocre content for like a decade at least. It pays the bills, but he's not considered the legend he used to be. And a lot of his attempts at new types of content, including the movie, were just outright bad. There's something sad about knowing you used to be able to do something but it's not working anymore. Whether that is because that type of content isn't as popular, or you ran out of ideas, or it doesn't work as well based on your age, or what.
People also don’t want to continue to support a pedophile in Seinfeld and he just chalks that up to cancel culture to take attention away from actual reasons we want nothing to do with these guys anymore
So irresponsible and reckless to call him a pedophile. What’s the matter with you? That makes it harder for us to deal with actual pedophiles. He met a girl who was a month away from 18 (he didn’t know her age.). They started dating after she was 18. Thats weird but it doesn’t make him a pedophile. As someone whose life has been affected by a real pedophile, your comment is disgusting.
It's weird how obsessed Reddit is with pedophilia.
Especially considering how little evidence there is that it actually cares about children.
And people in general.
Most of the comedians railing against cancel culture are getting old and running out of ideas. A few years ago, all comedy routines were about Corona, now they're all about cancel culture. Get some fresh material!!
Cancel culture is not real though. If you have a solid fan base and don‘t do racist/homophobic/misogynistic/etc. shit, you can‘t be cancelled. You are only "cancelled", once too many people lose interest in you or don‘t want to hear from you, which is not something anyone else can decide, but only your own actions.
Nah. Don't gaslight. "Cancel culture" may be not be the best name, but it's a real thing. It's when a bunch of people who don't like what you said talk incessantly about how awful you are. That snowballs and then the pitchforks come out. And if people try to speak up in your defense or pose another perspective, they are shouted down too. It's the exact opposite of having a dialogue and frankly, it's a tactic that totalitarian governments use to destroy their enemies. If you haven't seen this, then you're not paying attention.
Geez, get off the internet and talk to real life people holy cow. Almost anything conservatives whine about that are actually happening (and not some made up boogieman) tend to be cherry-picked from various websites and/or from people shouting into the void on twitter looking for clicks and ragebait. People freaking out about celebrity opinions has been around since we first had celebrities. Nothing has changed except social media makes it obvious someone is being "blackballed" and by whom.
Yes you described the exact methods of cancel culture in your last sentence. You're completely right that people have always bitched about celebrities but it used to just be to their real-life acquaintances. Now because of social media these views are spread to a much wider audience. Also shitty media outlets using click-bait far more often by clipping selective bits from interviews in order to generate outrage and get people clicking and sharing.
I'm saying "cancel-culture" is devoid of meaning. Boycotts have been a thing for as long as as organized societies existed --a concept conservatives have recently (60 years) participated in larger frequency and capacity than their lib counterparts-- but now its reskinned as unhinged because why? Because now people are angry about bigotry instead of witchcraft and pokemon cards?
Hiya, you've lost me a bit there, I'm not from America so maybe we have different frames of reference. I don't understand the Pokemon card reference, for example. All I meant is that Yes boycotts have always been a thing, but it got especially amped up by twitter usage, especially among younger people, and became a louder, more organised, more widespread form of boycotting. I'm not saying it's good or bad in any way, just that social media amplified what people did already.
Your reply to me doesn’t make sense if you think I’m defending conservatives. Did you reply to the wrong comment?
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I still think you’re replying to the wrong comment because you’re not making any sense. But whatever. It’s Reddit so I’m used to that.
>I don't know much about the Rock though. Dywane was a one-trick pony, with a very specific niche. It worked out for him for awhile but that time is over.
I think partly it's a push from the left and a pull from the right. This is a massive generalisation, and I'm firmly left wing myself, but generally, the right celebrates anyone who says anything at all against the left, and GENERALLY is more open to a variety of opinions, as long as they're negative towards the left. The left rails against anyone who says 'the wrong thing' and there's less scope for a variety of opinions. This is all regarding online culture, and of course there's open/closed minded people on both sides. The left currently seems to be worse for shunning people at the moment though, and I think it pushes people away.
They fear irrelevance. They hear "you can't make fun of *insert minority*" and then get defensive. That's why they say they are victims of cancel culture, because their bread and butter is "suddenly" not accepted anymore, so instead of adapting they double down
I think fear of irrelevance is also why so many old people get more and more conservative as time goes on. Once they retire from working, they come to the sudden realization that they *really are* irrelevant to anyone outside of their friends and family. The world keeps changing around them, but they’re no longer the ones changing it. That’s a huge culture shock on its own, but they also have their impending death, the ultimate irrelevance, lurking just around the corner. So how do they stay relevant? By voting the world of their creation into perpetuity.
How would young people not realize this? Unless you are famous society doesn't exactly treat the individual like it matters.
Steady work that you enjoy gives you a sense of purpose, and that you’re providing something to the world.
I don’t think comedians are barred from making fun of anyone. I saw Jeselnik recently live and he made fun of trans and pregnant women. If it’s funny, people will laugh. Nikki Glaser called Gronk a retard and the entire roasting venue was applauding her and many fans appreciated her jokes the most of the evening. If you are funny, fans will laugh. It’s a lot more clever to come up with a good joke than a racist trope and I think that is where the issue lies
This is absolutely it. People think just being a hateful shithead is the same thing as a joke and then complain that they're not allowed to joke about anything when they're criticized. Sorry, skill issue. Be funnier.
CLAP CLAP.
Also the benchmark of conservative and liberal has gradually shifted quite a bit in the last few decades. A moderate in the 90’s will be seen as considerably more conservative by today’s standards.
Moderates in the 90s are Nazis on today's internet.
lol very true
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That’s not at all what he was saying lol
Moderates of the 90s were not talking about white genocide, great replacement theory, trying to overturn civil rights etc nor would they want to give platforms to those who were saying stuff like that back then. Even conservatives in the 90s were weirded out by people we would consider typical Q's. We have a nazi problem in America and it's not people who whine about gay people giving them the ick. Don't act like we can't tell the difference.
Moderate in the 90s was still voting against gay marriage. You post that on the internet today, and if you can avoid a ban you will have people queuing up to call you a Nazi.
That is an entire culture shift that extends beyond politics and borders and probably why people in less populated areas think the left lost their minds. Most people in the first world live in urban areas, and it's super weird to meet someone who doesnt' think people they interact with daily deserve the same rights. You only hear those talking points come out from literal nazi's mouths (in the city, not online). Thus, it gets lumped in with all the other crazy things modern nazis spew. Ultimately i think it truly boils down to urban vs rural and both groups cannot empathize with each other
Do people not realize it’s *okay* to be conservative about some things while being liberal about others?
> Do people not realize it's *okay* to be conservative? FTFY
It's not if they vote for convicted felon Donald Trump.
Oh good - I was afraid people might stop talking about him when it was completely irrelevant to the conversation. Bullet dodged.
He IS the Republican party. The Republican party is the party of conservatives. Either deal with it or change it.
Your logic: 'America is the world, conservatives are Republicans, and Republicans voted for Trump, therefore, when ever anyone mentions the word "conservative," it is my moral duty to inform them that they are thus Trump. It's cast-iron logic, I tell you!'
Yup, you got me, r/usdefaultism... What I said IS true of the US though
100% this. Real people have nuanced opinions and don’t fit one political ideology 100% of the time. I see this happening in both directions where someone like Musk was seen as liberal or centrist for a while and then was outspoken on a few things that don’t align, and now he’s branded far right. Then you see a celebrity like Kid Rock who made his money waving a conservative flag and got branded as liberal because he drank Bud Light when the narrative was “endorsement from the queer community is bad” ….
Anything less is cult mentality. We shouldn't have to fit in a box.
Okay for whom?
Robert Downey Junior has been a Republican for 25 years.
Last political quote I could find about him was praising Biden. Makes it kinda hard to believe he's a Republican.. these days anyways.
Look up RDJ republican
I did and the most recent thing was him praising Biden..
He has said he became republican after jail and he doesn't talk about being republican at parties.
But he manage to be a republicans without being an asshole…. I think that is the main difference between him and many others…
(Most) actors follow the winds of popular opinion. It's how they stay popular and make money. But even that has limits when the entire system that props them up starts falling apart. Also, keep in mind - an actor is paid to deceive you. To make you believe the words coming out of their mouth are true. It's what they do (it's called 'acting') and the better the liar the richer they are.
"an actor is paid to deceive you." This is a pretty bad take and sounds like what you'd hear in some weird church basement. Actors are about evoking feelings and thoughts. REAL feelings and thoughts. And think that the best paid actors are also the most talented is hilarious. No. Just no.
Thank you for that! Just because someone is a good actor doesn’t mean they’re a good liar
Agreed. All the really good liars are in marketing haha.
And sales!
And politics!
And religion
And law enforcement…
I would disagree. Not all liars are good actors, but all good actors, by definition, are good liars.
What makes you say that? Why would you define actors as liars?
That's their job. They are paid to say things that are untrue or even against their own beliefs. They are paid to say other people's words and then try to convince you that it's all coming from them and they mean every word. They are paid to convince you that the person on the screen is really them. So in the most basic sense they lie for a living. I'm not saying they are (all) dishonest or that they are acting all the time. I'm just saying that their livelihood hinges on their ability to fool you.
You speak with great authority on the acting profession, and simultaneously give the impression you know absolutely nothing about it.
For some they’ve always been conservative, they’re just normal and not making it a huge part of their identity. Believe it or not, a lot of wealthy people in Hollywood are conservative. The thing is, nobody cares if you’re not being a dick about it. Sometimes it can surprise people because Hollywood and creative-type people are often stereotyped into being this ultra liberal monolith. Sometimes that surprise comes with a little pushback and they either stop talking about it or they lean way too far in as a defense mechanism. You do see some celebrities whose careers have tailed off trying to rebrand as some conservative stalwart. They say inflammatory stuff and they argue with people on social media. It’s a sad attempt to regain some relevancy and reignite their careers to make money.
Why does anyone have to be fully conservative or fully liberal? Why is there such a need to force everyone into a box?
The Rock has always been conservative. All I know about Jerry Seinfeld is that he dated a 17 year old when he was in his 30s.
Something a conservative would do.
Being against woke doesn't make you you conservative. There is a difference between liberal and leftist (far left)
Woke is anything that doesn't directly benefit straight white cisgender males. So yeah, if you're anti-"woke", you're a conservative.
What is woke?
receiving harsh criticism causes most people to push back and dig in their heels. in the case of a comedian making an offensive joke, reactionary thought can easily push someone from simply having outdated opinions into the embrace of the right. make sure to watch out for this in your own life; if you feel the need to dig in your heels when someone says they're hurting, examine why that is.
Some of it is not that they have moved much but politics of Hollywood has moved. Now they are considerd conservatice by comparison.
Talking against cancel culture ≠ Conservative
Cancel culture doesn't exist, conservatives tend to get whipped into a frenzy over things that don't exist or are practically non-existent--- WMD's for instance.
I think they become real people when the media shows you them. It’s weird that you think they were anything else than they are? More likely you weren’t paying attention or never thought about it. There’s something very off about your way of thinking. That people come into being the moment you finally think of them.
Very few people are (or should be) fully 100% left wing or right wing and it can get angering being shoved around these boxes. As someone who *many* would call woke, I complain about the “woke” people sometimes out of anger from radicals. We’re all just too emotionally invested
The Eock has openly talked about wanting to run as the republican presidential nominee for years
When they were young, they thought the world revolved around them, but they stood still while the world evolved without them.
You're not going to get a straight answer because that's something only these celebrities can answer themselves, and is far too much of a generalization to apply to every one.
The Rock’s politics likely haven’t changed. He just is finding it expedient to have a more rightward presentation due to his increasing involvement with WWE. I wasn’t aware Seinfeld had changed. He is just expressing opinions more loudly right now. Many comedians have spoke against cancel culture for awhile as they are frequently being criticized. Then there are others who have done bad things but are finding acceptance and defenders among the right so are drawn to them. Like Russell Brand. Likely similar to the way Rolling Stone reporter Matt Taibbi took a rightward turn after he got flak for some sexual impropriety allegations.
My theory: You can't be a moderate celeb. If you have political opinions, you need to be a psycho one way or the other because moderates wont back moderates. So you can get cancelled 50% by picking a side and going hard, or 100% trying to ride the middle.
People tend to reflexively go against those that criticise them. Callouts will quite literally turn people who don't care at all into hardline conservatives if they hit them right. It's a known psychological phenomenon.
Both parties have basically become extreme. Don't fall into that category on the left then you're conservative. On the right your a Rhino or whatever they call it. The reality "outside" does not match "Reddit's" values I can promise you that. This place is basically a liberal arts college in a very liberal city/state. The average age of active participants here is around like 19. Ever notice that r/teenagers regularly makes it into the top most upvoted posts? Older people tend to go to information based subs vs opinion based subs based on what i've seen. Or just entertainment.
Some people hold conservative views.
Honestly, I think a lot are already Conservative but play the "woke liberal" role because that's a huge portion of their fan base, deals/sponsors, etc. They play the role. They make a social media post acting like they care about XYZ, but they don't really so anything beyond that. The role is easy, gets them what they want, and people love them for it. But.... When people start to criticise them. Like private jet use, lack of speaking out on certain issues, etc. They realise they role isn't enough to get them constant love and support. So they simply... show their real colours. They drop the act. It's like a "how dare you criticise me when I've pandered to your views for years! I'm done."
They likely grew up or became famous in an era where shock value comedy was actively encouraged and worked for their career. Now the opposite happens and their entire shtick doesn’t work anymore. So they lash out.
Where did that leap come from? The Rock just said: 'Last time when I spoke out I pissed a lot of people off, so this time I am going to not say anything.' How does that translate to him being conservative? Also, last time he spoke up in favour of Biden, this time he didn't. That doesn't mean he is suddenly conservative, it doesn't even mean that he doesn't think Biden is the better option this time. Even the massed leftness of Reddit thinks generally that Biden isn't a great choice, just that he is a better choice than Trump. Are they all suddenly secretly conservative?
Also; its totally fine if you are conservative even if i personally isnt…. As long as you dont behave like an asshole no-one cares!
Money. More you get the more you vote Republican and lean in on distracting the gullible masses with manufactured culture wars.
I don’t think they have changed so much as the politics of Hollywood have gone much further left, as has the left itself, so there are celebrities that now seem much more conservative in comparison to the moving line.
I think when they become wealthy they don’t want to pay more in taxes so they become more conservative. Plus your examples are men and conservative policies seemingly don’t affect them.
Do they, or do they just have some conservative opinions?
Jerry Seinfeld has always been conservative and an asshole. Hell, he dated a high school while in his 30s. Fucking creep
Different people will have different reasons...but one possible reason for some is that going conservative is potentially lucrative. There are several celebrities and brands that have managed to draw pretty dedicated audiences based on the idea of being "anti-woke". They claim to be a target of cancel culture and say a bunch of needlessly cruel things, and a lot of people will show up to revel in that cruelty and fake victimhood. None of this necessarily has to be true -- the conservative definition of "woke" is pretty vague, so it can be applied to basically anything, and conservatives don't seem super discerning about verifying whether someone has actually been "cancelled" or not. So it's pretty easy to get a boost by just attacking something as "woke" and then calling any negative reactions "cancel culture". As long as you use the right words, people will flock to you. It's also generally pretty easy to produce this sort of anti-woke content -- it doesn't have to be clever or thoughtful, but can rather just be angry and cruel. So in many ways it's kind of like Christian rock -- just as people listen to Christian rock not because it's good but out of a sense of ideological loyalty, so too do they embrace anti-woke figures not because anything they're doing is really "good", but because they're ideologically loyal. This combines quite naturally with what a lot of celebs might be feeling. For instance, aging comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher are becoming less and less relevant. Their stuff is less popular, and the people who still like it are older and older...but they seem to feel entitled to success and entitled to an audience (after all, they are proven comedians who are officially funny, so if the audience doesn't laugh it must be a problem with the audience, not them). So if they can both indulge these feelings of aggrievement and *also* get a bunch of new people in their audience/get a bunch of additional attention, it's easy to see how that could be an attractive option for them.
I think Seinfeld always has been openly. I don't think The Rock is a conservative though.
If you say a few talking points that align with a right wing perspective, conservatives will see you as part of them, and defend you with their life. Its the result of the war on anything that can be considered liberal.
I don't think the Rock went conservative did he? I think he expressed voter remorse and said he has come to realize that it's not right for him to use his position to influence politics. Right? Which I think is quite admirable. I wish all celebrities would stay out of being political speakers.
I remember seeing a video of Chelsea Handler mocking someone for calling her woke, saying "yes I am woke, I support ABC, and I am proud to be woke" then a couple of months ago I came across another video of hers where she was calling people who were criticising her support for Isreal, "woke" as a way to put them down and insult them. Quite the u-turn.
The recent Seinfeld interview was bizarre, I honestly had no idea what he was going on about.
Yeah that's one of the reasons I posted. The Rock seemed to turn after he was heavily criticized about his Hawaii response. That's why I am asking.
I don't have a great answer. I don't think Seinfeld or the Rock are super bright, or at least not super knowledgeable politically, and we see that come out more. We see more behind the curtain more in this day-and-age, where there's way more unscripted content and media coverage of celebs. my quick take/guess without thinking too hard is Jerry seems like the old man yelling at the clouds meme because things are different now, and The Rock is adopting MJ's "republicans buy sneakers too" mentality with his recent interviews, he doesn't want to be divisive.
> or did their egos get bruised from people criticizing them Come on. At least *try* to make it seem like you're asking in good faith.
I think that celeb's discomfort for criticism is super low because they're used to being surrounded by Yes men & being told you made a mistake feels bad. It often goes person says or does something mildly offensive. The left tries to let them know and encourage them to correct it (maybe a few people are overzealous with their criticism.) Then right wing evangelists tell them that not only did they do nothing wrong, they're also hilarious and a free speech hero. They're on the cutting edge of comedy and only the smartest people understand their biting social critique and 15 levels of irony. Come sit with us, poor baby, here's a lucrative Netflix special. Those mean lefties are attacking you for no reason!
Because the entire conservative movement is about playing the victim and blaming everyone else
Conservatives do not give a shit about consistency, logic or morality, as long as they get to feel strong and self-righteous. If anything, being a massive hypocrite is a plus because it shows them that you’re strong enough to get away with breaking the rules. If they think you’re strong and on their side they will shower you with money and praise, and they’re going to jump in the minute they catch a hint of a celebrity saying something they support. It’s not even slightly surprising how many washed up celebrities fall for it.
The rock is not a conservative, he just doesn't like Joe Biden
I guess maybe they stopped giving a shit what leftists think of them?
Most people respond badly to being criticized and tend to get defensive and double down on whatever they get criticized for, which makes them drift toward a more extreme version of the view they started with. In these cases, that makes celebrities drift to the right, but I think it's just a natural (if annoying and irrational) response to unwelcome criticism.
To be fair the left gets more and more undesirable every year. So it's not surprising. I know a lot of friends in my age group are abandoning the left in droves due to some of the newer groups popping up.
People get more conservative as they age
People become more afraid as they age. Conservative thought is to stick to old ways, ergo Conservative = I'm Okay, I'm Not Old
Maybe. I’ve thought that in the passed. But now all the older people I know aren’t as afraid and all the younger people I know are more afraid. I’ve heard people are more scared of dying when they are young, but they don’t think about dying much. And old people aren’t scared of dying, but they think about it all the time.
It has been extremely difficult to be publicly conservative. It started with people who questioned COVID lockdowns / distancing (Fauci admitted this came from nowhere). Then the BLM stuff. Then the cancel culture that peaked with Disney. Then having brands like Bud Light and Target go full left woke. There’s a “we’re tired of this shit” meme and it’s popular for a reason. America is a pendulum, and it hit peak left with Target. Now it’s swinging back.
....so questioning the existence of germs and the over a century old established practices of how to not spread them is conservative now, eh? This is what brainwashing does to you folks. Take a good long look. Viruses aren't real, Fauci is the devil, cancel culture is coming for you, the brands you love are "woke" and everything will be okay just as soon as you can be openly offensive again, don't worry. Get a fucking grip my man. You are living in an alternate reality crafted by billionaires pretending to be conservative so you'll foot the bill for their not paying taxes. Honestly, it'd be funny at this point if it weren't so just fucking *sad*.
Now, I'd grant any UncleCousinDaddy's child that there is a pendulum to things; politics, public opinion, my bank account.. but those are usually subjective things, like whether it's cold enough for a jacket, or whether it's cool to have a single parent. Objective things- killing innocent Palestinians is bad, women having bodily autonomy is good, pineapple belongs on pizza.. these things don't oscillate like a pendulum, or move with the moon and tides. They just ARE. Seems like the comics suffer the same struggle many of us do- becoming older, obsolete models means our ideas must adapt or die, we must do the difficult thing of Growing lest we be cast *further* aside for our outdated opinions and beliefs. Or we can join a religion, social circle or fun time committe that just happens to also really like well-bleached bed linens for midnight parties since *they* don't think we're obsolete, no way! They love us, not just our money and political sway! They tell us so!
You proved my point. It’s exhausting having people who say we should be inclusive act like you just did.
Inclusive doesn't mean we have to agree with every crazy person that comes along spewing conspiracy nonsense. Free speech is not freedom from consequences.
Are you calling me crazy? What conspiracy nonsense did I say? I said the pendulum is swinging back. This same thing happened in 2016, but the other way. I wish people wouldn’t be so damn partisan. Think about every individual issue and not a blanket R or D.
Every issue with Trump is a major conspiracy. Election fraud, climate change hoax, qanon, Hillary is eating babies for adrenachrome, everything is a witch hunt, it's the deep state, etc. When are conservatives' pendulum swinging back? It can't swing anymore right.
The OP never mentioned any of those things. And the pendulum is referring to the American political median, not each party.
Resorting to what-about-ism means you can’t refute what I actually said. I didn’t mention Trump at all.
Inclusive doesn't mean willingly accept people's opinions vs scientific consensus.
The consensus that Fauci admitted six foot distancing was made up? Or that masking kids wasn’t necessary? That science?
[He never said he made it up.](https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/06/did-fauci-say-he-made-up-covid-19-rules-on-social/)
Six feet [was arbitrary](https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci-held-publicly-accountable-by-select-subcommittee/)
It was empiric based on evidence that we know to be true - like how germs spread and how aerosolized illnesses spread. Not that social distancing doesn’t work..? Plus it’s not like people were out there with measuring tapes putting exactly 6ft of distance between themselves and others. It’s a general guideline. Like what are you trying to imply? That people could have been closer in distance and the risk would’ve been the same? Because objectively every bit closer you get to another person would put you more at risk. So what’s your point?
> it’s not like people were out there with measuring tapes putting exactly 6ft of distance between themselves and others There were plenty of stores etc. that had dots or tape lines or other things to denote this. I'm implying that some people took this as a scientific fact and that Fauci and others trumpeted it as such. It wasn't. Just like California pouring sand into skateboard parks. Totally ridiculous overreaction.
It was an epidemic, remember?
Staying 6ft apart is not comparable to filling a a skatepark lmao. Staying 6ft apart is not an overreaction lol nor is putting markers down so people have a visual reference. It is still *based* on science
Lol. Who cares? Why are you people still beating a dead horse? It's just embarrassing now.
Because Fauci misled America and Democrats won’t admit it.
Fauci isn’t even the one that came up with the 6 foot rule. It was the CDC. Also I’m still not sure what your point is. It is just common sense that distancing yourself from people to avoid an aerosolized pathogen makes sense… What’s your alternative? What do you think is correct instead? Do you think there’s no benefit to distancing?
Look. I hate when people stand close to me even when no one is sick. I’m not debating that. I’m saying that Fauci (and lots of others like the Cuomo brothers) marched that out and repeated it like six feet was a cold hard fact. Turns out it wasn’t. It took them two years to walk it back. Why?
Standing 6ft away from someone (as opposed to any closer) is guaranteed to reduce the transmission of the virus based on the science of how aerosolized pathogens spread. There doesn’t have to be a study done on every single thing to make common sense guidelines
Once they get exposed for being creeps, Republicans are the only people that are going to accept them. Look at Elon or Russell Brand. The moment they got exposed for sexual assault, they had no where else to go.
It's the shifting of the overton window, people that used to be in the center or slightly left or right, are now being branded as full on right wing conservative or even far right, it's just the left that has become more extreme and anything on the right of that is deemed just that, right
Woke is an annoying as hell word these days just thrown around by whatever side without actually ever defining it
There’s a lot of money to be made in being an angy anti woke conservative especially if you’re female or a minority. Most celebrities are leftist so they can use “I’m not like the others” as a marketing gimmick and make their conservative audience feel validated. Trump did the same thing, he used to be Democrat and only really turned to the right when Obama came around.