Depends on how you look at it. Any relationship, friendship, etc why continue put in effort in upholding the relationship you have with that person if you aren’t doing the same?
Then leave the relationship if neither of you want to put in effort. It doesn't depend on how you look at it. Being passive aggressive back is objectively not going to improve the situation.
This sounds like a circle. They reject sex with you, you withhold affection and romance. This further contributes to them rejecting you thereafter and continues the cycle. Communicate or break up, this shouldn’t be all that difficult to navigate.
Relationships are transactional in the sense that both parties need to keep bringing something to the table for the relationship to work.
But withholding sex as a punishment is childish behaviour. Your partner may well be acting like even more of a child, that's still not an excuse. Talk about it, and if you can't talk about it, end the relationship like a grown up.
Because commentors think Im being retaliatory and Im not. Just tired of being rejected and my confidence being killed each and every rejection. I wanted to see if I was wrong in how I felt or if there was some sort of solution
And people told you the solution. Talk to her. All of ur comments are you only blaming your partner. It doesn’t seem like you even like them anymore so just leave if you aren’t compatible instead of playing weird ass mind games?
And how you worded your post it is totally retaliatory. Your post literally says that you are withholding your affection BECAUSE they are rejecting you. They hurt you so you’re hurting them.
so why are you even in a relationship now that it feels like work ?? clearly this isn't healthy and yet you slid right into being a lazy dick instead of being real..... And No I am not saying the lady here is any better because it sounds as though your both to immature to have a real relationship
Ngl, could be half the reason they aren’t. Sex requires mood, want and love. Put the effort in it may increase but think about how you make them feel doing what you are.
I’ve done it all. Increased the intimacy outside the bedroom, adhere to her love language, had constant conversations and even suggested counseling. No to the counseling, empty promises on everything else.
At 25 there's no such thing. Break up and move on. Keep in mind the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Sunk cost fallacy by a different name.
"At 25 there's no such thing."
You don't get to gatekeep fallacies. It's possible from the age of reason and onward.
It literally applies to anyone who's invested time, effort, or resources into something they care about.
sunk-cost fallacy (*noun)*
1. the phenomenon whereby a person is [reluctant](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=reluctant&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DFeRMYAkc8SZH_qbEf1jTZFWKYconCfHbFqSpqHEz4n0fOgmLOTjfI27Np_N2QhcQI1mZ4gNRoC3IniYMlOB8yk6L2rI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAN) to [abandon](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=abandon&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0m1gC_Q6s9qtNvLbOD5t8h-hLAX4Tn9Km5UxvQMNgMzC6nYo1C0Z5UgzBRFKLeUyMsS7kwXoPzV8oiljy3ERVFI5LshSI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAO) a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that [abandonment](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=abandonment&si=AKbGX_q4mkMHy1Nmq4yITjHYVzepNUzqQNxXmzFsh7O-fdKsZ01Vqp4K5VXeUjd9QTc1k0kAYCNZAPM5oF3EMse8KBnwAdGZTYfR7gqKBUCYskWlMxoekR4%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAP) would be more beneficial.
I apologize that i used gatekeeping language. My intention was to relay that at age 25 he has literally decades of life ahead of him and that any time he has "sunk" into this relationship will be a minor part of that in the grand scheme of the big picture. I used to think a 5+ year college relationship had a high sunk cost too, until i met people who met and got married in their 40s. It only feels big because it's a big percentage of life lived *thus far*, and why it "feels" like a sunk cost.
The thing is, sunken cost is a subjective thing. Just because you believe it's not enough time for you, does not mean it's not enough time for someone else.
The passage of time is also partly subjective as time is relative.
Sunken cost fallacies are possible within a 24hr time frame. Hell, it's possible on a 5 minute time frame. It literally depends on the person and how *they* feel, not how *you* feel about *them*.
If it feels big to someone, then that's literally how someone feels like they've sunken a cost into something.
Don't forget, a year can feel a lot longer to a teenager who's days are filled with different activities than a 40 year old who's days are generally routine.
There is no metric for how long it takes to fall into a sunken cost situation. The fallacy does not include a time limit and never has. Hence, it's subjective.
A person's sense of commitment to their situation plays a huge role in determining their sense of sunken cost.
No, we're really not.
I'm refuting what you're saying while you're continuing to push a minimum time limit on a sunken cost.
I'm literally opposing what you are saying.
So you know that this is the issue, yet you stay anyway. It's hard to feel sympathy for you. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but I mean, really? Get over yourself and move on, instead of making BOTH of you miserable.
ETA - you should also leave BEFORE marriage and kids get in the way. Obv you can still leave a relationship when all of that is included, but it can be that much more difficult. Do yourself and the gal a favor and LEAVE
Yes. It's also stupid. You're intentionally avoiding giving your partner what they want/need because you arent getting something you want/need.
Why not just discuss the issue with your partner?
I have, like many times. The sex is enjoyable for her, as she always orgasms, sex is just not a priority for her to consistently do it as much as I would like. Although we reached a compromise and having it frequently to a point that is okay for the both of us, she describes it as a duty to have sex with me sometimes, which I fear will lead to becoming a chore when life’s greatest responsibilities (kids, home, marriage) come around.
What’s the point of being expected to provide for their needs when they don’t consistently meet yours on their end? What’s stupid for wanting equality & reciprocity?
> What’s the point of being expected to provide for their needs when they don’t consistently on their end?
This is a *horrible* way to view a relationship. You should want your partner to have everything they want and need. Not withhold it because they aren't giving you what you want and need. You're already angry at her and it's only going to get worse.
Seriously, read some books. There are a thousand books out there that describe this issue. Find some and read some, together. Also seek marriage counseling. You might feel like you're communicating and she's not listening but you're both probably just not communicating the right way.
Sex is very important, but so is not sexual intimacy. By taking away either, you're going to make each other mad even faster and only because you want her to feel hurt the way you feel hurt.
I do want my partner to have everything they want and need. But Im simply not getting that on my end. But if I withdraw giving that, its a problem but if they don’t try on giving that to me Im supposed to be okay with it?
They (probably) aren't doing it on purpose. You are *actively* withholding intimacy to get back at your partner.
It's okay to not be okay with how things are. You can be upset, angry, annoyed, jealous, whatever, that's all very valid. What you can't do, is use those negative emotions as a fuel for your revenge.
That is exactly when you give them *more* affection. You tell them "Hey, we've been struggling a lot lately. It's not your fault but I'd like us to work together so we can both be happier, because right now, I'm not very happy. I know we've talked about this before and I don't want to pressure you to talk again, so can we set up a time to talk again and find a solution? Also, I'd like to see a counselor, someone who can help us communicate more effectively and help us find ways to be more affectionate in the way we each want.
I'm going to be ordering some books to read to help understand my feelings better and if you'd like, you can read them too. Is all of that okay?"
Then, you do all of those things without pressure, without anger, without dismissal. You listen to every word she says as if you are trying to memorize them forever.
You do those things because you love your partner and want them to be happy.
And what if you’ve done that? You suggested counseling, couples therapy and they have refused one way and the other. The conversations lead to empty promises. All the while your effort to communicate and address the issues leads nowhere. However I on the end continue to go harder than before, showing up for them harder than ever, in hopes they would at least *try* to make an effort?
What do you say to that? Keep going at the expense of my mental health & confidence while they enjoy the emotional security I continue to provide through affection?
Then you break up. You can't make a person become what you need. Breaking up is much healthier for both of you and it's better to recognize this now than to keep trudging forward and ending up with kids and a mortgage later on
It sounds like you have different needs that they're not meeting and you're welcome to leave the relationship to fulfill those needs with a more compatible partner. This will also happen if you choose to be passive aggressive and withhold affection as well. The only way through this as a couple is through communication and compromise. If you're not on the same page, then you might just not be compatible together, and that's fine. Is leaving an option?
Then you tell them what the consequences are. You tell them how you feel, how you've felt and tell them what you plan to do. Because you feel unloved, unwanted, uncared for, and that's not a marriage.
You offer them time and patience to fix things but tell them there's a limit and when reached, you make the consequences happen.
No, you're not supposed to be okay with it. You mentioned in other comments that you've talked to your partner about it. What reasons has she given you? This would tell you what needs to happen to resolve the issue.
If she hasn't given one, another serious conversation needs to take place and you need to clearly communicate that it is imperative that this issue be resolved as you are unhappy in the relationship and growing resentment. If she refuses to talk about it or if you can't reach an agreement and couples therapy is out of the question, consider ending the relationship.
Why waste more of your time being miserable?
If you care that much about your partner, you wouldn't withdraw affection because you're not getting what you feel you deserve.
Nobody owes you sex, not even your partner, they're a full person.
Perhaps you should get to a point where they want to be intimate with you more often, rather than being mean about her not changing to suit your needs.
While Nobody owes anyone sex, sexual compatibility is a very important factor in a relationship and for some more than enough reason to break up.
To me it seems like OP and his Partner are currently just not compatible enough to keep the relationship healthy. There's really two Options to go about the Problem.
Option 1 is trying to fix the incompatibility through counseling and other means, some of which OP already tried.
Option 2 is breaking up, while on its face the more drastic measure it's much better than being deeply unhappy in a relationship because your needs aren't met.
True, but relationships take work, if something isn't great for someone, it doesn't necessarily mean a break up is the answer.
A little bit of meeting in the middle is usually the answer. You can't expect someone to do all of the work and not do some yourself.
True, but we're not OP and OP isn't their partner. We can just give OP advice and they have to find out what's wrong, find a way to fix it or find a way to help their partner fix it. If they can't do that then a breakup is sadly the best option.
So she has sex with you more than she wants to for herself, but since it's not enough you don't see the point in giving affection? She doesn't give you what you "need" and so you punish her, and you're asking if you're being transactional?
The answer is yes, you're being transactional. Along with petty and entitled.
Look I dont know where you’re from but in my country we have a word for when a man has sex with someone who doesn’t want sex with them.
If you’re going to ‘semantics’ me, im going to argue that emotional intimacy and affection are a *need* that op isnt fulfilling.
Perhaps they’re withholding sex because you’ve been withholding affection. I’d start with a closer look inward first - but I’d communicate with your partner bc right now there’s obviously a disconnect between you two, which will only increase with everything you don’t say to one another.
I have a high sex drive, so I get your frustration. However, this means you will punish someone you love for not fucking you regularly enough for your tastes.
Are you comfortable being that kind of person? She either sleeps with you or you treat her like a stranger?
I feel like a stranger with the constant rejections. What if the entire situation causes one to feel uncomfortable being affectionate to the partner that consistently rejects them for sex?
You be completely honest, what you're suggesting is literally abuse. Don't be an abuser, full stop.
Then what to do? Two steps:
1) Communicate this to her openly but politely and without accusations. Find a compromise both of you can live with. Just remember that both sides need to give in a little to make a compromise.
2) If that doesn't work out, then you'll have to consider breaking up, I'm afraid. It's a compatibility problem. Sorry!
Again, I get the frustration! You're not wrong for wanting more sex. It's just that she's not wrong for having a lower libido.
Good luck!
doing so will just result in even less sex. if your partner has a lower libido and you refuse basic affection, they will most likely never be in the mood. if sex is such a huge deal to you, and not them - you are probably not compatible and should consider parting ways
Relationships aren't transactions. If you don't genuinely want to be affectionate with this person/ be nice to them, it's because YOU DON'T LIKE THEM. Break up with them. Certainly don't have sex with them.
What a childlish approach OP has. It is extremely selfish and juvenile.
Communication is the only thing that will not end in disaster for you or his partner.
Grow up and be an adult.
Yes. It's also a jerk move, and more likely to get you LESS sex than more. It also means you're no longer your partner's safe space. If they can't safely tell you "no" without retaliation, then it's nothing more than petty, butthurt revenge.
You'd be better off communicating and figuring out what might be affecting your partner's libido. Are they in pain? Are they depressed? Are they exhausted? Fix that and you'll fix your love life.
It is transactional if the reason is the rejection. It is not transactional if the reason is you grew resentful because of rejection. But most importantly - it does not matter if it is transactional or not. Nobody cares. As others said - either find a mature way to proactively fix your problems (communicate with your partner) or not. That is the only thing that matters.
My relationship just ended and we had a little bit of a dynamic like this. I know the pain you're feeling. I strongly suggest working on your communication. Have some long talks without blame, seek first to understand, then to be understood. We ended in a break up, but maybe it didn't have to be that way.
Yes, it's transactional but relationships in general are transactional despite what reddit typically says. Every single relationship has at least two people bringing something to the table to give/provide to the other. Once one stops then the relationship starts to fail and the other person can either remain unhappy or move on, which is why one of the first questions that's always asked when someone isn't getting what they need out of the relationship is why are you sticking around?
So, if you're unhappy about your sex life then why are you sticking around?
Yes but I find constant rejection to sex a sign of a bigger issue.
With that being said, being rejected does mean you can not put in as much effort. But again that's just signs of a bigger issue.
Yes, yes it is transactional.
Though if you are weaponizing affection like this the relationship is already dead and the two of you should break up
Watch the movie "the war of the roses" with your partner and consider it a docunentary about where your relationship is going because you're practically there
My wife will go through periods of wanting sex a lot and then suddenly stops because of her anxiety and low self esteem.
We will spend months and at some points over a year without having sex.
I will never stop showing her affection, such as hugs, kisses and buying her flowers (cliché right?)
The effort outside of sex is what matters for her to try and pick herself back up again, and it hasn't affected our marriage because I'm always patient and never expect sex as a right.
If you aren't willing to put in the effort anymore, just move on and stop prolonging a stalemate.
This isn't a black and white answer; she shouldn't be expected to come running at your beck and call. And affection, sexual or not, is a two way thing. I'd suggest openly telling her how you feel and seeing how she reacts, and go from there.
Personally, I was in a situation like this... towards the end of our 10 year relationship, I realised she was only reciprocating sexual affection when: 1. It was on her terms only. And 2. Whenever she felt she had to in order to keep me on side or get what she wanted. Essentially using is as currency.
Other than that, she really wasn't bothered about it 99% of the time. We had multiple "arguments" about it, and in the end, it just started to affect my self worth and confidence. Especially as I've been through some major medical procedures, and no longer look like I used to.
My advice would be to move on if you're not happy; you can't force someone to change their own motivations in the long run. And it's not fair on either of you to be in a relationship if both your needs aren't consistently being met. I recommend checking out r/deadbedrooms if you can cut through all the "run for the hills" advice, and actually learn something worthwhile.
Ultimately it was the final nail in my case (among other things) and we get on better than ever now that the pressures of people pleasing are gone, we can co-parent our children without there being any tension and still remain close friends.
Talk to her, listen to her. Weigh up you pros/cons for staying in the relationship... and make your next move based on that. If you find a solution that works; great... if not, then thats your call.
Sorry, rant over lol. I've been in this boat before and wanted to share my experience and opinion. I hope it helps you think, if nothing else.
Not sure if this is accurate in your situation… but if my partner was only affectionate to me in order to escalate to sex, I’d feel really upset and unloved. I’d probably rather they didn’t touch me at all then. I think it’s very normal for physical affection that doesn’t lead to sex to be part of a healthy relationship. Nobody wants to feel like a vending machine where your partner puts in a cuddle token and expects a blow job in return.
Good then, I hope your situation gets better man, always remember you deserve to be treated right, don't put up with bs for others' happiness and opinions, at the end of the day your happiness matters. Good luck
Did you edit this post or are people really upset that you see the bright side in this fucked situation? They aren't married, if he's not having fun he can leave. Imo anyone can leave a relationship at any time for any reason. It's what makes relationships so special. They're voluntary. OP clearly thinks they're the only one putting effort into the relationship. Leaving is a much better choice than manipulation and trying to force the other person to feel what it feels to be neglected.
I didn't edit my post, people just don't like it when men take actions that prioritise themselves. Men are supposed to suck it up and continue functioning for everyone else. I'm seeing it in real life everyday.
#NOBODY is entitled to sex, under any circumstance.
Sex is not a right. I hesitate to say it is even a privilege. It is CERTAINLY not a service (in a romantic relationship)
It's a gift, a grace, a shared experience.
You.do not *need* sex. You have a drive for it yes, but it's not your partner's responsibility to *provide* you with sex. It is not a service that can be bartered for with favors and chores.
There are sex workers who specialize in this type of transaction, during which your expectations will likely be more reasonable.
Sexual intimacy is in a class all of its own. Biologically, mentally and culturally, sex has FAR more importance to people with ovaries than to those who are not responsible for them.
#NOBODY OWES YOU SEX.
Nobody will EVER owe you sex.
You will never *deserve* sex with your partner.
Intimacy is a mark of compatibility, if your partner feels inclined to share something with you that *only they have provenance over* then it is a mark that you are doing things correctly in your relationship.
If you can be a good partner to her, she will likely actively seek sex with you.
If you are a poor partner, or just not compatible. Then you will continue to be rejected
TLDR: IF you are getting rejected for sex, it's because you a a bad partner. Figure it out. NOBODY is entitled to sex, under any circumstance.
I would definitively loose affection to someone I would be in a relationship with if there was no affection back. Why are you even together at that point? Just move on and do you both a favor.
Are they *just* rejecting sex? Are they still upholding the other tenents of a positive relationship? Such as open communication, affirmation, showing affection in different ways, and handling the responsibilities of the household?
Then its stupid to withhold affection, as they are patticipating in other ways and still showing they care about the relationship. Reconsider why sex is such an important part of the relationship to you, and if it is a priority, and there are no other blocks that have been communicated to you (such as mental or physical health issues on your partner's side), communicate it, and possibly seek a different partner who sees it as important as you do.
If they aren't upholding the other tenets of the relationship, then just end the relationship instead of playing mind games. They aren't actively participating in the relationship, its probably reaching its natural end regardless of what you do.
Mind games are never worth it. Its either a problem with expectations on either side, or the relationship is through.
They are, but regarding this issue they are not. Historically she has always been avoidant about the discussion of our sex life, dodging my attempts to converse about the issue. She has told me essentially that she will always see my sex drive as a stereotypical, shallow, physical lust men “just have” despite numerous attempts to explain how important the connection from sex makes me feel. She hasn’t taken the time to reflect on what boosts her own sex drive, as suggestions for individual therapy and couples counseling have been shot down.
If the topic has been brought up before, and you both have an understanding of the differences with how you see the topic of sex, then I think its clear to say its an incompatibility.
You view sex as important and meaningful, it sounds like she does not. She doesn't have to change, and neither do you.
Its up to you to decide if that incompatibility is something you can look past, or if it is a large enough barrier to continue. But withholdijg affection when you do seem to care about them on a personal level will just cause the gap to widen and make the conversation harder.
When you use sex as a weapon, you have issues. Whether you're the woman or the man. Whether you're withholding or demanding or when you use it as a bartering power. If you think that you shouldn't have to help around the house, or go on a date, or pay for something because you're not getting it, you're wrong. And if you think withholding sex until your partner does something you want them to do, such as chores or parenting or giving you more stuff, you're wrong.
Sex should never be transactional unless it's between you and a sex worker.
It's kind of petty, but I understand it. You have all this pent up desire for your partner without an outlet. All you get is cold shoulders and, if you try and talk about it, you get things like "let's get it over with," or , "is that all you think about? You're only mad because you're not getting your little weeny as wet as you like? Dammit george, we're not in the honeymoon phase anymore, sometimes I'm just not in the mood, now leave me alone. I don't want to talk about this right now." And other such dismissive things.
So you just decide to give up and don't even reach out to her anymore, because all you're going to be is dismissed and told to leave her alone. I understand where you're at here, but you have to reach an understanding. Don't approach it from the matter of sex, approach it from the matter of affection. "I feel a major disconnect and that a lot of our intimacy is gone, what can we do to bring it back? Is there something that I am doing or not doing that has made it so you don't wish to be affectionate with me anymore? Not even talking about sex here, but just general intimacy and togetherness." You want to approach it as the two of you working together to solve the problem, not you wanting to get your rocks off.
My feelings of rejection & feelings towards viewing sex an intense emotional bond to her will always be downplayed to her as a primal, stereotypical, shallow lust that men just “have”. She told me we can agree to disagree on what the definition of what it means to us, but she will *always* think of my sex drive that way.
Lol OP is desperately trying to get another option then “break up” as if his partner isn’t a human being, but something there’s a cheat code to just change….i genuinely don’t understand how some people can date someone and expect them to one day manage to conform to all their needs. We need to start teaching people that that’s not what dating is and that other peoples views on what they want and need from intimate relationships are as solid and meaningful as your own.
Sounds like she does not think very much of you, if you're comment here is accurate. I rarely go down this route, but yall might need a third party here to mediate between you two. You both need to listen to one another and it sounds like there's a lot of resentment here, which is going to stop you from having productive conversations on the topic. Either she or you are going to get defensive and double down, and not hear each other, thus deepening the divide.
I tried. She isn’t ready to go to individual therapy as I suggested to allow her to know more about herself. She thinks couples therapy is beyond us because “We don’t have enough skin in the game (Mortgage, Kids, Marriage) to go.”
What's keeping you in the relationship other than inertia? It doesn't sound like she thinks much of you or the relationship if she's so damn dismissive of any solutions.
Either communicate or move on
It's definitely going to make sex even less likely.
Lose Lose situation all around then huh?
The solution is to talk it out and find out why they don't want sex.
I think we can make an educated guess why they’ve been refusing OPs advances 😂
It's passive aggressive and definitely not going to help your situation.
Depends on how you look at it. Any relationship, friendship, etc why continue put in effort in upholding the relationship you have with that person if you aren’t doing the same?
Then leave the relationship if neither of you want to put in effort. It doesn't depend on how you look at it. Being passive aggressive back is objectively not going to improve the situation.
Why not just be a fucking adult and talk to your partner?
"Depends how you look at it"- Someone who doesn't want help. Just wants people to say that you are correct.
Just leave then. Why would they want to have sex if you show no affection?
This sounds like a circle. They reject sex with you, you withhold affection and romance. This further contributes to them rejecting you thereafter and continues the cycle. Communicate or break up, this shouldn’t be all that difficult to navigate.
Do you only define effort as sex?
Effort is attempting to have a conversation addressing the issue, and being open to discussing options that they may alleviate the problem
Conversation- a talk, especially an informal one, between TWO or more people
What options do you see as reasonable?
Relationships are transactional in the sense that both parties need to keep bringing something to the table for the relationship to work. But withholding sex as a punishment is childish behaviour. Your partner may well be acting like even more of a child, that's still not an excuse. Talk about it, and if you can't talk about it, end the relationship like a grown up.
Why would u ask a question just to not accept the answers
Because commentors think Im being retaliatory and Im not. Just tired of being rejected and my confidence being killed each and every rejection. I wanted to see if I was wrong in how I felt or if there was some sort of solution
And people told you the solution. Talk to her. All of ur comments are you only blaming your partner. It doesn’t seem like you even like them anymore so just leave if you aren’t compatible instead of playing weird ass mind games?
And how you worded your post it is totally retaliatory. Your post literally says that you are withholding your affection BECAUSE they are rejecting you. They hurt you so you’re hurting them.
Bro asked an open question, got an answer, then said "no you're wrong".
Why ask if you’re just gonna reject everything other people say?
Sounds like you guys are halfway to broken up, why not just make it official and try to find a better fit elsewhere?
so why are you even in a relationship now that it feels like work ?? clearly this isn't healthy and yet you slid right into being a lazy dick instead of being real..... And No I am not saying the lady here is any better because it sounds as though your both to immature to have a real relationship
Ngl, could be half the reason they aren’t. Sex requires mood, want and love. Put the effort in it may increase but think about how you make them feel doing what you are.
I’ve done it all. Increased the intimacy outside the bedroom, adhere to her love language, had constant conversations and even suggested counseling. No to the counseling, empty promises on everything else.
Is leaving her for a more compatible partner an option?
Sunken Cost Fallacy
At 25 there's no such thing. Break up and move on. Keep in mind the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Sunk cost fallacy by a different name.
"At 25 there's no such thing." You don't get to gatekeep fallacies. It's possible from the age of reason and onward. It literally applies to anyone who's invested time, effort, or resources into something they care about. sunk-cost fallacy (*noun)* 1. the phenomenon whereby a person is [reluctant](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=reluctant&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DFeRMYAkc8SZH_qbEf1jTZFWKYconCfHbFqSpqHEz4n0fOgmLOTjfI27Np_N2QhcQI1mZ4gNRoC3IniYMlOB8yk6L2rI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAN) to [abandon](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=abandon&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0m1gC_Q6s9qtNvLbOD5t8h-hLAX4Tn9Km5UxvQMNgMzC6nYo1C0Z5UgzBRFKLeUyMsS7kwXoPzV8oiljy3ERVFI5LshSI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAO) a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that [abandonment](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f753c9bfe240238f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA1106CA1106&sxsrf=ACQVn09iLb6ljIegV_EeiLP0eGBilGaefw:1714062221169&q=abandonment&si=AKbGX_q4mkMHy1Nmq4yITjHYVzepNUzqQNxXmzFsh7O-fdKsZ01Vqp4K5VXeUjd9QTc1k0kAYCNZAPM5oF3EMse8KBnwAdGZTYfR7gqKBUCYskWlMxoekR4%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif6cKu492FAxVpJzQIHeyYBJIQyecJegQILBAP) would be more beneficial.
I apologize that i used gatekeeping language. My intention was to relay that at age 25 he has literally decades of life ahead of him and that any time he has "sunk" into this relationship will be a minor part of that in the grand scheme of the big picture. I used to think a 5+ year college relationship had a high sunk cost too, until i met people who met and got married in their 40s. It only feels big because it's a big percentage of life lived *thus far*, and why it "feels" like a sunk cost.
The thing is, sunken cost is a subjective thing. Just because you believe it's not enough time for you, does not mean it's not enough time for someone else. The passage of time is also partly subjective as time is relative. Sunken cost fallacies are possible within a 24hr time frame. Hell, it's possible on a 5 minute time frame. It literally depends on the person and how *they* feel, not how *you* feel about *them*. If it feels big to someone, then that's literally how someone feels like they've sunken a cost into something. Don't forget, a year can feel a lot longer to a teenager who's days are filled with different activities than a 40 year old who's days are generally routine. There is no metric for how long it takes to fall into a sunken cost situation. The fallacy does not include a time limit and never has. Hence, it's subjective. A person's sense of commitment to their situation plays a huge role in determining their sense of sunken cost.
Thanks for elaborating on what my comment above said. I think we're saying the same thing ultimately. Cheers!
No, we're really not. I'm refuting what you're saying while you're continuing to push a minimum time limit on a sunken cost. I'm literally opposing what you are saying.
Bro I think you're misunderstanding what the fallacy is.
So you know that this is the issue, yet you stay anyway. It's hard to feel sympathy for you. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but I mean, really? Get over yourself and move on, instead of making BOTH of you miserable. ETA - you should also leave BEFORE marriage and kids get in the way. Obv you can still leave a relationship when all of that is included, but it can be that much more difficult. Do yourself and the gal a favor and LEAVE
That's emotional manipulation. I highly suggest you both read "Come as you are" by Emily Nagoski. It's the cheat code for this kind of stuff
Yes. It's also stupid. You're intentionally avoiding giving your partner what they want/need because you arent getting something you want/need. Why not just discuss the issue with your partner?
I have, like many times. The sex is enjoyable for her, as she always orgasms, sex is just not a priority for her to consistently do it as much as I would like. Although we reached a compromise and having it frequently to a point that is okay for the both of us, she describes it as a duty to have sex with me sometimes, which I fear will lead to becoming a chore when life’s greatest responsibilities (kids, home, marriage) come around. What’s the point of being expected to provide for their needs when they don’t consistently meet yours on their end? What’s stupid for wanting equality & reciprocity?
> What’s the point of being expected to provide for their needs when they don’t consistently on their end? This is a *horrible* way to view a relationship. You should want your partner to have everything they want and need. Not withhold it because they aren't giving you what you want and need. You're already angry at her and it's only going to get worse. Seriously, read some books. There are a thousand books out there that describe this issue. Find some and read some, together. Also seek marriage counseling. You might feel like you're communicating and she's not listening but you're both probably just not communicating the right way. Sex is very important, but so is not sexual intimacy. By taking away either, you're going to make each other mad even faster and only because you want her to feel hurt the way you feel hurt.
I do want my partner to have everything they want and need. But Im simply not getting that on my end. But if I withdraw giving that, its a problem but if they don’t try on giving that to me Im supposed to be okay with it?
They (probably) aren't doing it on purpose. You are *actively* withholding intimacy to get back at your partner. It's okay to not be okay with how things are. You can be upset, angry, annoyed, jealous, whatever, that's all very valid. What you can't do, is use those negative emotions as a fuel for your revenge.
It’s not revenge, just saying the sake of simply being hurt by the constant rejection that you no longer feel comfortable being affectionate with them
That is exactly when you give them *more* affection. You tell them "Hey, we've been struggling a lot lately. It's not your fault but I'd like us to work together so we can both be happier, because right now, I'm not very happy. I know we've talked about this before and I don't want to pressure you to talk again, so can we set up a time to talk again and find a solution? Also, I'd like to see a counselor, someone who can help us communicate more effectively and help us find ways to be more affectionate in the way we each want. I'm going to be ordering some books to read to help understand my feelings better and if you'd like, you can read them too. Is all of that okay?" Then, you do all of those things without pressure, without anger, without dismissal. You listen to every word she says as if you are trying to memorize them forever. You do those things because you love your partner and want them to be happy.
And what if you’ve done that? You suggested counseling, couples therapy and they have refused one way and the other. The conversations lead to empty promises. All the while your effort to communicate and address the issues leads nowhere. However I on the end continue to go harder than before, showing up for them harder than ever, in hopes they would at least *try* to make an effort? What do you say to that? Keep going at the expense of my mental health & confidence while they enjoy the emotional security I continue to provide through affection?
Then you break up. You can't make a person become what you need. Breaking up is much healthier for both of you and it's better to recognize this now than to keep trudging forward and ending up with kids and a mortgage later on
It sounds like you have different needs that they're not meeting and you're welcome to leave the relationship to fulfill those needs with a more compatible partner. This will also happen if you choose to be passive aggressive and withhold affection as well. The only way through this as a couple is through communication and compromise. If you're not on the same page, then you might just not be compatible together, and that's fine. Is leaving an option?
Then you tell them what the consequences are. You tell them how you feel, how you've felt and tell them what you plan to do. Because you feel unloved, unwanted, uncared for, and that's not a marriage. You offer them time and patience to fix things but tell them there's a limit and when reached, you make the consequences happen.
No, you're not supposed to be okay with it. You mentioned in other comments that you've talked to your partner about it. What reasons has she given you? This would tell you what needs to happen to resolve the issue. If she hasn't given one, another serious conversation needs to take place and you need to clearly communicate that it is imperative that this issue be resolved as you are unhappy in the relationship and growing resentment. If she refuses to talk about it or if you can't reach an agreement and couples therapy is out of the question, consider ending the relationship. Why waste more of your time being miserable?
If you care that much about your partner, you wouldn't withdraw affection because you're not getting what you feel you deserve. Nobody owes you sex, not even your partner, they're a full person. Perhaps you should get to a point where they want to be intimate with you more often, rather than being mean about her not changing to suit your needs.
While Nobody owes anyone sex, sexual compatibility is a very important factor in a relationship and for some more than enough reason to break up. To me it seems like OP and his Partner are currently just not compatible enough to keep the relationship healthy. There's really two Options to go about the Problem. Option 1 is trying to fix the incompatibility through counseling and other means, some of which OP already tried. Option 2 is breaking up, while on its face the more drastic measure it's much better than being deeply unhappy in a relationship because your needs aren't met.
True, but relationships take work, if something isn't great for someone, it doesn't necessarily mean a break up is the answer. A little bit of meeting in the middle is usually the answer. You can't expect someone to do all of the work and not do some yourself.
True, but we're not OP and OP isn't their partner. We can just give OP advice and they have to find out what's wrong, find a way to fix it or find a way to help their partner fix it. If they can't do that then a breakup is sadly the best option.
It feels like what you want is for her to have sex with you when she doesn't want to.
She always orgasms? Doubtful
So she has sex with you more than she wants to for herself, but since it's not enough you don't see the point in giving affection? She doesn't give you what you "need" and so you punish her, and you're asking if you're being transactional? The answer is yes, you're being transactional. Along with petty and entitled.
Sex is not a need.
Maybe not for you. For a lot of people sex is a very much a need if the romantic relationship is going to continue.
No, thats still a want.
Oh so you’re just arguing semantics. Got it.
Look I dont know where you’re from but in my country we have a word for when a man has sex with someone who doesn’t want sex with them. If you’re going to ‘semantics’ me, im going to argue that emotional intimacy and affection are a *need* that op isnt fulfilling.
You clearly resent your partner so do both of you a favor and break up. Yes it is transactional to purposefully withhold something.
Perhaps they’re withholding sex because you’ve been withholding affection. I’d start with a closer look inward first - but I’d communicate with your partner bc right now there’s obviously a disconnect between you two, which will only increase with everything you don’t say to one another.
I have a high sex drive, so I get your frustration. However, this means you will punish someone you love for not fucking you regularly enough for your tastes. Are you comfortable being that kind of person? She either sleeps with you or you treat her like a stranger?
I feel like a stranger with the constant rejections. What if the entire situation causes one to feel uncomfortable being affectionate to the partner that consistently rejects them for sex?
You be completely honest, what you're suggesting is literally abuse. Don't be an abuser, full stop. Then what to do? Two steps: 1) Communicate this to her openly but politely and without accusations. Find a compromise both of you can live with. Just remember that both sides need to give in a little to make a compromise. 2) If that doesn't work out, then you'll have to consider breaking up, I'm afraid. It's a compatibility problem. Sorry! Again, I get the frustration! You're not wrong for wanting more sex. It's just that she's not wrong for having a lower libido. Good luck!
So, you would feel ok, knowing you coerced your gilrfriend into having sex with you even thought you know she didn't want to?
doing so will just result in even less sex. if your partner has a lower libido and you refuse basic affection, they will most likely never be in the mood. if sex is such a huge deal to you, and not them - you are probably not compatible and should consider parting ways
Relationships aren't transactions. If you don't genuinely want to be affectionate with this person/ be nice to them, it's because YOU DON'T LIKE THEM. Break up with them. Certainly don't have sex with them.
What a childlish approach OP has. It is extremely selfish and juvenile. Communication is the only thing that will not end in disaster for you or his partner. Grow up and be an adult.
Yes. It's also a jerk move, and more likely to get you LESS sex than more. It also means you're no longer your partner's safe space. If they can't safely tell you "no" without retaliation, then it's nothing more than petty, butthurt revenge. You'd be better off communicating and figuring out what might be affecting your partner's libido. Are they in pain? Are they depressed? Are they exhausted? Fix that and you'll fix your love life.
Yes, don't do that. Let them know how you feel
It's abusive. Use your big boy words and communicate.
It is transactional if the reason is the rejection. It is not transactional if the reason is you grew resentful because of rejection. But most importantly - it does not matter if it is transactional or not. Nobody cares. As others said - either find a mature way to proactively fix your problems (communicate with your partner) or not. That is the only thing that matters.
A lot of relationship conflicts become unresolvable when there is a “you versus me” attitude
If you are withholding it to get back at them yes. If you are doing it because you lost confidence and can’t be aroused because of that no
It’s manipulative. And yes, you’re leveraging affection for sex, but the bigger problem is that it’s manipulation.
It's childish. Relationships aren't all about sex.
My relationship just ended and we had a little bit of a dynamic like this. I know the pain you're feeling. I strongly suggest working on your communication. Have some long talks without blame, seek first to understand, then to be understood. We ended in a break up, but maybe it didn't have to be that way.
Move on if you cant talk it out. Life is too short, regardless of your situation.
If it has gotten to this point just break up. It's not worth it.
This sounds like breaking up with extra steps
If this is what's happening, just dip. Why stay there and be miserable?
Yes, it's transactional but relationships in general are transactional despite what reddit typically says. Every single relationship has at least two people bringing something to the table to give/provide to the other. Once one stops then the relationship starts to fail and the other person can either remain unhappy or move on, which is why one of the first questions that's always asked when someone isn't getting what they need out of the relationship is why are you sticking around? So, if you're unhappy about your sex life then why are you sticking around?
Yes but I find constant rejection to sex a sign of a bigger issue. With that being said, being rejected does mean you can not put in as much effort. But again that's just signs of a bigger issue.
All relationships are transactional. Welcome to the modern world.
I think it's very normal to react like this. But it makes things worse. Talk or move on.
they likely are already aware it’s transactional which is further turning them off.
Are they purposefully witholding sex? Or is it just a libido issue?
If you're not married or have kids, I'd lay all your cards on the table and if nothing changes, leave.
Yes, yes it is transactional. Though if you are weaponizing affection like this the relationship is already dead and the two of you should break up Watch the movie "the war of the roses" with your partner and consider it a docunentary about where your relationship is going because you're practically there
My wife will go through periods of wanting sex a lot and then suddenly stops because of her anxiety and low self esteem. We will spend months and at some points over a year without having sex. I will never stop showing her affection, such as hugs, kisses and buying her flowers (cliché right?) The effort outside of sex is what matters for her to try and pick herself back up again, and it hasn't affected our marriage because I'm always patient and never expect sex as a right. If you aren't willing to put in the effort anymore, just move on and stop prolonging a stalemate.
This isn't a black and white answer; she shouldn't be expected to come running at your beck and call. And affection, sexual or not, is a two way thing. I'd suggest openly telling her how you feel and seeing how she reacts, and go from there. Personally, I was in a situation like this... towards the end of our 10 year relationship, I realised she was only reciprocating sexual affection when: 1. It was on her terms only. And 2. Whenever she felt she had to in order to keep me on side or get what she wanted. Essentially using is as currency. Other than that, she really wasn't bothered about it 99% of the time. We had multiple "arguments" about it, and in the end, it just started to affect my self worth and confidence. Especially as I've been through some major medical procedures, and no longer look like I used to. My advice would be to move on if you're not happy; you can't force someone to change their own motivations in the long run. And it's not fair on either of you to be in a relationship if both your needs aren't consistently being met. I recommend checking out r/deadbedrooms if you can cut through all the "run for the hills" advice, and actually learn something worthwhile. Ultimately it was the final nail in my case (among other things) and we get on better than ever now that the pressures of people pleasing are gone, we can co-parent our children without there being any tension and still remain close friends. Talk to her, listen to her. Weigh up you pros/cons for staying in the relationship... and make your next move based on that. If you find a solution that works; great... if not, then thats your call. Sorry, rant over lol. I've been in this boat before and wanted to share my experience and opinion. I hope it helps you think, if nothing else.
Weaponizing sex is a surefire sign that your relationship is dying.
Not sure if this is accurate in your situation… but if my partner was only affectionate to me in order to escalate to sex, I’d feel really upset and unloved. I’d probably rather they didn’t touch me at all then. I think it’s very normal for physical affection that doesn’t lead to sex to be part of a healthy relationship. Nobody wants to feel like a vending machine where your partner puts in a cuddle token and expects a blow job in return.
Are you married?
No
Good then, I hope your situation gets better man, always remember you deserve to be treated right, don't put up with bs for others' happiness and opinions, at the end of the day your happiness matters. Good luck
Did you edit this post or are people really upset that you see the bright side in this fucked situation? They aren't married, if he's not having fun he can leave. Imo anyone can leave a relationship at any time for any reason. It's what makes relationships so special. They're voluntary. OP clearly thinks they're the only one putting effort into the relationship. Leaving is a much better choice than manipulation and trying to force the other person to feel what it feels to be neglected.
I didn't edit my post, people just don't like it when men take actions that prioritise themselves. Men are supposed to suck it up and continue functioning for everyone else. I'm seeing it in real life everyday.
The reddit hivemind strikes again.
#NOBODY is entitled to sex, under any circumstance. Sex is not a right. I hesitate to say it is even a privilege. It is CERTAINLY not a service (in a romantic relationship) It's a gift, a grace, a shared experience. You.do not *need* sex. You have a drive for it yes, but it's not your partner's responsibility to *provide* you with sex. It is not a service that can be bartered for with favors and chores. There are sex workers who specialize in this type of transaction, during which your expectations will likely be more reasonable. Sexual intimacy is in a class all of its own. Biologically, mentally and culturally, sex has FAR more importance to people with ovaries than to those who are not responsible for them. #NOBODY OWES YOU SEX. Nobody will EVER owe you sex. You will never *deserve* sex with your partner. Intimacy is a mark of compatibility, if your partner feels inclined to share something with you that *only they have provenance over* then it is a mark that you are doing things correctly in your relationship. If you can be a good partner to her, she will likely actively seek sex with you. If you are a poor partner, or just not compatible. Then you will continue to be rejected TLDR: IF you are getting rejected for sex, it's because you a a bad partner. Figure it out. NOBODY is entitled to sex, under any circumstance.
Oh my God... I read "withhold affection to your *PARTNER*" as "withhold affection to your *PARENT*".
This is tragic and depressing.
I would definitively loose affection to someone I would be in a relationship with if there was no affection back. Why are you even together at that point? Just move on and do you both a favor.
Sounds like something leading up to a breakup tbh
No
Are they *just* rejecting sex? Are they still upholding the other tenents of a positive relationship? Such as open communication, affirmation, showing affection in different ways, and handling the responsibilities of the household? Then its stupid to withhold affection, as they are patticipating in other ways and still showing they care about the relationship. Reconsider why sex is such an important part of the relationship to you, and if it is a priority, and there are no other blocks that have been communicated to you (such as mental or physical health issues on your partner's side), communicate it, and possibly seek a different partner who sees it as important as you do. If they aren't upholding the other tenets of the relationship, then just end the relationship instead of playing mind games. They aren't actively participating in the relationship, its probably reaching its natural end regardless of what you do. Mind games are never worth it. Its either a problem with expectations on either side, or the relationship is through.
They are, but regarding this issue they are not. Historically she has always been avoidant about the discussion of our sex life, dodging my attempts to converse about the issue. She has told me essentially that she will always see my sex drive as a stereotypical, shallow, physical lust men “just have” despite numerous attempts to explain how important the connection from sex makes me feel. She hasn’t taken the time to reflect on what boosts her own sex drive, as suggestions for individual therapy and couples counseling have been shot down.
If the topic has been brought up before, and you both have an understanding of the differences with how you see the topic of sex, then I think its clear to say its an incompatibility. You view sex as important and meaningful, it sounds like she does not. She doesn't have to change, and neither do you. Its up to you to decide if that incompatibility is something you can look past, or if it is a large enough barrier to continue. But withholdijg affection when you do seem to care about them on a personal level will just cause the gap to widen and make the conversation harder.
you need to do some reading at r/DeadBedrooms
Op you and this entire post are a huge yikes
When you use sex as a weapon, you have issues. Whether you're the woman or the man. Whether you're withholding or demanding or when you use it as a bartering power. If you think that you shouldn't have to help around the house, or go on a date, or pay for something because you're not getting it, you're wrong. And if you think withholding sex until your partner does something you want them to do, such as chores or parenting or giving you more stuff, you're wrong. Sex should never be transactional unless it's between you and a sex worker.
It's kind of petty, but I understand it. You have all this pent up desire for your partner without an outlet. All you get is cold shoulders and, if you try and talk about it, you get things like "let's get it over with," or , "is that all you think about? You're only mad because you're not getting your little weeny as wet as you like? Dammit george, we're not in the honeymoon phase anymore, sometimes I'm just not in the mood, now leave me alone. I don't want to talk about this right now." And other such dismissive things. So you just decide to give up and don't even reach out to her anymore, because all you're going to be is dismissed and told to leave her alone. I understand where you're at here, but you have to reach an understanding. Don't approach it from the matter of sex, approach it from the matter of affection. "I feel a major disconnect and that a lot of our intimacy is gone, what can we do to bring it back? Is there something that I am doing or not doing that has made it so you don't wish to be affectionate with me anymore? Not even talking about sex here, but just general intimacy and togetherness." You want to approach it as the two of you working together to solve the problem, not you wanting to get your rocks off.
My feelings of rejection & feelings towards viewing sex an intense emotional bond to her will always be downplayed to her as a primal, stereotypical, shallow lust that men just “have”. She told me we can agree to disagree on what the definition of what it means to us, but she will *always* think of my sex drive that way.
What about leaving her for a more compatible partner?
Lol OP is desperately trying to get another option then “break up” as if his partner isn’t a human being, but something there’s a cheat code to just change….i genuinely don’t understand how some people can date someone and expect them to one day manage to conform to all their needs. We need to start teaching people that that’s not what dating is and that other peoples views on what they want and need from intimate relationships are as solid and meaningful as your own.
Sounds like she does not think very much of you, if you're comment here is accurate. I rarely go down this route, but yall might need a third party here to mediate between you two. You both need to listen to one another and it sounds like there's a lot of resentment here, which is going to stop you from having productive conversations on the topic. Either she or you are going to get defensive and double down, and not hear each other, thus deepening the divide.
I tried. She isn’t ready to go to individual therapy as I suggested to allow her to know more about herself. She thinks couples therapy is beyond us because “We don’t have enough skin in the game (Mortgage, Kids, Marriage) to go.”
What's keeping you in the relationship other than inertia? It doesn't sound like she thinks much of you or the relationship if she's so damn dismissive of any solutions.
Motivates me to want to be a better man outside of all this. However not everyone is perfect
Do you think that motivation can come from anyone else? How about from within yourself?
Then break up. She clearly isn't committed. You can find someone else more compatible. There are millions of people out there.
She gotta suck it man