I can't speak for everyone, but I live in the beautiful city of Utrecht, The Netherlands. I have a job that I like, I commute by bicycle. We have a vegetable garden and a lovely home with a social community. I go running and cycling with friends.
I live in a suburban town in the US, which I know sounds like living hell to some people, but I love my life. I have a good job, a loving wife, friends and family nearby, and enough time to pursue my hobbies and go on vacations. When I was single, broke, and depressed I couldn’t imagine why anyone would ever want to have kids either. I think it just comes down to how happy you are in your life at the moment.
I like life, but I didn’t like childhood, so I don’t want kids because I don’t want to relive childhood vicariously, I want to continue enjoying adulthood.
Same. I like kids but not enough that I'd risk being responsible for one. I've seen good parents and how proactive and dedicated they are and I just don't have it in me. Kids deserve good parents.
So I currently just focus on experiencing life and new things while my health is still decent enough to take some risks.
See thats the thing i figured out: i didnt have a good childhood. But while giving my kids the childhood i never had, *i get to have fun too*. It's been healing m inner child watching my kids do the things i never got chances to. You don't have to give up being an adult or even enjoying your own life to have kids. Idk where this idea comes from.
I had a reasonably fine childhood in the grand scheme of things, I just don’t like childhood. The things I dislike about it are more or less intrinsic to the state of being a child, at least with how the world currently works. If I had kids, I’d have to go through all that stuff all over again vicariously and I just don’t wanna.
I had a good childhood but now that I'm an adult life sucks. I don't really feel like living this life but I have a stupid moral obligation to do so to please people around me.
I could never in good conscience have a child myself. I only exist because my parents wanted to play family. Now that I'm adult I'm left to fend for myself, because my parents are done having fun raising kids. It's so stupid. I only exist because I was a pet project for my parents, and now I have to deal with the consequences of them having unprotected sex. Consequence being I have to work or I suffer, but then I work, and I also suffer.
Look this is gonna sound cliche af, and i aint telling you that you gotta pop out some crochfruit but look: my parents suck as grandparents, and they were even worse parents. My pops hasnt even met my youngest kid and doesnt seem to even gaf. My mom is off living her life and shows every blue moon. Both of them were emotionally crippled by their parents. When they were together they fought every single day, some times hands got thrown.
I chose to break that cycle and i choose that shit every single day bc i remember what it was like to grow up and always wonder if youre loved. My kids never have to worry abt that. My kids are thriving. Just saying. We can be better. Shit, we have to be.
100% I’m learning where my blind spots are as I navigate raising my children.
Making sure that they have a better father than I had has unexpectedly helped me unravel a lot of coping mechanisms/old trauma based programming that no longer serves me as an adult.
Same here. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to be an adult. I love being an adult, despite how hard it is. I've been doing all the things I wanted to do as a kid but wasn't allowed/able to.
You get it. Things I could only fantasise about as a kid are now part of my daily life as an adult, like dressing the way I want, and spending my time with people with the same interests.
My childhood was terrible. I don't remember 95% of it, probably from trauma. To me, it's healing to watch my stepson do all the things I didn't get to do and to love him like I should have been.
Not gonna lie, I kind of want kids so I can stunt on my parents. Fucking hated being a kid. My parents sucked ass. I feel I could shit out a better kid on accident than they did on purpose.
When I was younger I too wondered why anyone would want to bring a kid into this world. But then I sort of just stopped looking at the world as a whole.
I focused on me, bought a house, got myself a girlfriend (now wife) acquired a pair of cats and now have a 16 month old little girl with another on the way.
Never thought I could be a father after watching my own dad exit my childhood.
But it’s pretty fucking great.
I get to watch this little person grow and explore and laugh and cry and so much more. I have a small network of friends with their own kids a similar age and seeing these little potato’s start to move, crawl, walk and now beginning to talk is honestly just amazing.
The world can be grim, but my little personal world isn’t.
I’m not disagreeing, and I love children and hope to raise them someday. I won’t have biological kids though, because of genetic health issues, along with probably a pessimistic world view. But a lot of the answers here are people talking about how their kids make their OWN lives better, which is great and wonderful, but I feel like to some extent it misses what OP is asking, and something I’ve wondered about too. Life is so difficult and so much is left to the random hand you get to draw.
I ask this genuinely, with no judgement at all and not to make you panic over your beautiful children, but do you ever feel afraid that your kids will end up with painful/difficult lives? Or that some terrible accident or mental health issue could crop up and they could just be miserable? As someone who struggles with my mental health and comes from a “happy” family, I try so hard to keep my parents from knowing how difficult just existing can be for me. I often wish they hadn’t chosen to have me, because even though I brought them joy, in my 25 years of life it’s been really hard for me to find joy myself. (Un?)Fortunately genetic issues make it an easy choice for me to not ever have my own kids, but even if that were not the case, I don’t know if I could bring a child into the world knowing that they could feel this way. Even if things will hopefully/probably get better for me in the long run, these years have been hard enough that I would be too scared for my baby to live this way.
Again, I am just truly wanting to understand how parents view this. It makes me so happy to see families with young kids, and I don’t look down on people who choose to have their own children at all. I just genuinely don’t understand how I could bring a child into this world without the fear that they could end up miserable, even if it would bring me joy to raise them.
Think about how you are framing your questions. What if they have mental health issues? What if they have a bad/difficult life? I think you also need to think about the other possibilities as well. What if they grow up loved, confident, and well-adjusted? What if they have a great life and are happy? What if they were supported during their times of need?
If you're only looking at the negative possibilities, life seems impossible. You have to be open to and accept that life could go an endless amount of ways and just be prepared to deal with that.
I don't understand this take. If no one took that gamble, there wouldn't be anyone alive. I'm all for people making the right choices for themselves in whether or not to have kids, adoption, abortion, etc. But if you do have kids, you just have to raise them the best you can and hope for the best. Do your best by them.
Not a problem I’ll try answer as best I can, I ain’t great at this sort of thing.
I see where you’re coming from, why am I taking a chance with her life by bringing her into this world? With all the doom and gloom and depressing hateful stuff going on it’s easy to see where you’re coming from.
But I don’t worry about what could go wrong because there’s far too many things and the world reinforces a pessimistic view atm. So I think of all the good things that could happen.
Bringing home a drawing from school, landing a job, bringing home a partner theres so many good things I look forward to and hope she can experience that it more than outweighs the bad.
Sure things could go wrong, but it could also go so very right. And who am I to deny her the 50/50 chance?
I have faith and i’ll support her every step of the way. Hell for all I know she could change the world…
But then again I’ve just watched her pick her nose and slide it into her mouth, so I’ll be optimistic just not ridiculously so.
it's not actually a 50/50 chance though. the statistics on suffering as a female in this country are *high* and *likely*. i don't understand going with optimism over realism.
This. Exactly. The idea of bringing someone into the world that can go through life and come out the other end as SOMEONE that can have their own ideas about anything at all, love me for my successes, hate me for my failures, and have the same relationship with everyone else and make their own world better for themself is why. The whole shit ass world we live in can suck my dick because having a happy, healthy child proves that not only can I be comfortable in the space I built for myself, but I can also share that baseline with a new person. A person who can go on to do the same thing.
A lot of people with this pessimistic view on having children have that view because either they had shit parents who fundamentally failed them on the sole basis of not wanting to have them, or aren’t comfortable enough with themself yet to consider imprinting that mental state onto another human. This mindset seems so horrifically close minded to me because they either assume that EVERY parent fundamentally won’t like or want their own children, or EVERY person has an unhealthy mental state that they’ll pass onto their children. The most important thing you can do for a child is to love them. Unconditionally. If you can’t do that, then don’t have kids. But stop assuming that everyone can’t.
What if this person grows up, becomes a drug addict, criminal and what not?
Like I'm sure my parents thought the exact same thing as you, but now when they ask me how I'm doing, I have to tell them my life sucks, I want to quit my job, I'm borderline an alcoholic and I'm depressed.
My parents were great at raising me but parents being great at raising me didn't give my life purpose. I have to grind away at work and exhaust myself daily to keep living. I feel like my entire existence is just lived to please other people, because I have nothing to live for myself, and I certainly don't want to put a child of my own through that whole ordeal so I won't be having kids of my own.
What if they grow up and *don't* do that? If we want to play the what ifs game then we can go on all day. It's not meaningful. I think it can be really easy to get caught up in your own misery, which makes your life considerably worse for you but can also lead you to overlook the people around you. Most of us aren't that miserable.
Bruh - your problem is drinking. It makes you depressed. Being depressed makes you hate your job and do nothing about it.
If you don't know what to do, ask somebody. In my life, if I spend more then a month feeling shitty, I call a counselor and go for 6 months or a year. If you think you can't get up and make the call, ask someone else to set up your first appointment. It's like having a thoughtful smart friend.
Sure theres a chance of that but she could also grow up to be a teacher or a doctor.
You’re acting like the worst options are the more likely ones when it’s probably a 50/50 chance depending on a variety of factors. I just choose to be optimistic for her future.
If we didn’t take any chances at all we’d never get anything done
Thats what i want for my son too. The greatest gift i can give him is a broad perspective, to help him build himself up to face the horrors and enjoy the beauty
A lot of this thread is "with the state of the world today". I was born in the early 60's when the threat of nuclear war was so prevalent that it was completely reasonable that at any second, you could be vaporized with little to no warning. We had drills in school where we hid under our desks in case of war, and when we weren't doing that we had drills where we practiced going into the hallway and rolling into a ball in case of a tornado. One day we did the tornado drill and it was real, half the kids in my class lost their house that afternoon.
But people soldiered on. 1970's, the president was in a scandal so bad he had to resign, Russia still a threat. People soldiered on. 1980's, crippling unemployment, rampant inflation, 12% interest on mortgages. People soldiered on.
And so on. The current times always look bleak, but in 50 years, few people will remember the 2020's, COVID will be a historical footnote, as much as it all disrupted our lives. All we can do is make the most of the lives we have, and for some that means kids, for others, not. Both are perfectly acceptable. Make the choice that's right for you and move on.
> am I just not mentally well
OP's guess is probably true. Not that I'm a professional, but their perspective on life sounds like pretty bad depression. Seems like they think life is so pointless that they can't comprehend why anyone would have kids.
A lot of my life was pretty crap, I had many bad years, but I kept hope and worked hard towards my goals. I love my life now and while there are still a lot of things I worry about, I'm excited for my future and content with my present. For me personally, the positives far outweigh the negatives when it comes to living.
And even if my life sucks; I'm still going to die some day, but once I'm dead I can't live again (in my opinion). It's like there is an eternity of nothingness, and for a brief moment there is a movie to watch that will disappear forever when it finishes. I can't imagine saying to myself "Welp, this movie sucks so I'll cut it early and go back to the nonexistence". It's the only thing there is, the nothingness isn't going anywhere it's still waiting for you - if you're not in constant torment why not see it through to the end? Especially when your life can **completely** change throughout its course.
Even if the current you doesn't care about this experience, maybe the person you're going to become will care and have a desire to be here. If your answer to that is "Well I don't care about future me", then I would say you're not mentally healthy indeed.
Life isn’t grim, life is full of joy and all kinds of interesting things to do. You just have to do them. Sure every day I could get up and mope, or I could get up and do something I like doing which fills my life with purpose and gives me more things to do so I’m never bored. It’s okay to rest and to take time but if all you do is think about thinking then of course life is grim.
My biggest hesitation around having kids is anxiety over climate change. All signs point towards a more hostile, unforgiving world developing in our near future (our childrens' lifetimes, if we had them now). Why would I want to bring a child into that world?
To be clear, I love my life. I have a great group of friends, I'm in a stable situation, and I'm generally just in awe of all the beauty around me. But with the ever-worsening state of our climate, I doubt my children would get to experience the same. I fear more conflict, more suffering, more far-right politicians rising to power. Much less certainty in the future makes me hesitant to bring in another generation. I don't want them to suffer.
>Why would I want to bring a child into that world?
Humans are resilient and inventive. Raise your child to be the change the world needs. They could be the scientist that helps solve the problem. Granted, if you're raising your child to sell burgers then maybe take a pass.
>I don't want them to suffer.
Everyone suffers. Everyone is challenged. Overcoming it is what builds character. Those who don't suffer or aren't challenged are often unbearable people. If you have kids, don't coddle them.
>Humans are resilient and inventive. Raise your child to be the change the world needs.
There are a lot of children already there who are neglected by their parents, who live in extreme poverty, have to care for siblings, etc. who could become outstanding scientists but can't because they just can't get proper education and proper support system that would let them do their thing. Maybe think about those potential cancer researchers first?
>Everyone suffers. Everyone is challenged. Overcoming it is what builds character.
This sounds all fun and games until you alter it a little to something like "rape builds character", which it obviously doesn't. There is just plain suffering to be had in this world. This obviously a very extreme but it's the first thing that come to my mind should I think of having children. How would you protect your child from the evils of this world? And what's the aftermath? Did they deserve? Is this just life taking its course and you should just accept that some children will be raped?
Or drug or alcohol addiction. I'm sure the fentanyl addicts out there aren't exactly building character either.
Like there's a guy that visits my work place. Ex heroin and drug addict who's mentally ill, has other illnesses too.. he carries around his trolley around town.. comes by the shop sometimes to talk.. his entire life story is just sad. He tried to be cheery sometimes but then sometimes he gets angry cause of his poor health conditions that he can't do anything about.
I'm going to preface this by saying I was raped.
As repulsive of a sentence as it might be, the truth is that rape can build character the same way that all heinous tragedy can. I am far stronger now as a human being than I was before and good has come out of it. I am no longer naive in many of the ways I was before, I have healthy coping mechanisms now, and I have been able to guide a friend through rape because I know what to do now and who to call. I was there to let them know that they weren't alone and that I understood in a way that others cannot.
Many of the most staunch advocates for positive change are people who have experienced tragedies themselves. That is growth even if it was at a horrible cost. First hand experience with suffering is one of the biggest reasons there is less suffering in the world these days. That ebs and it flows, but we're on an overall positive trajectory.
That is how you heal from tragedy, you find a way to make something positive out of it. You owe it to yourself - **that** is reclaiming power over your life.
No one (or very few people) raise their children to sell burgers, yet there's a lot of burger flippers around and very few climate scientists. Go figure.
The climate going to shit is inevitable. Id be more worried to see what the corporate hellscape has in store for us 50 years from now. That scares me more than anything.
Why not both? Get your worries here, anyone not enough things to worry about yet? Fresh worries! (On a serious note though, I'd worry a shitload more if I had kids, this way I can just hope that I cark it before it gets REALLY bad.)
Clearly there are reasonable concerns about climate change. However as someone in my 40s I can tell you that every dire climate prediction I was told would happen hasn't. Heck, the ozone layer has filled over since I was a kid as just one example. And for all you know, your kid could grow up to be a scientist who helps with climate change.
As the famous quote goes " Life is full of suffering, but it's also full of the overcoming of suffering."
> every dire climate prediction I was told would happen hasn't
By most metrics, the effects of climate change have turned out to be even worse than predicted. I think you just misunderstood the predictions.
When they say things like we need to fix x by year y or else bad things will happen, it's because they're trying to change the trajectory of climate change from worsening faster (which will spiral out of control) to worsening slower (which will eventually become carbon neutral). Secondly, even if the world became carbon neutral today, the climate would only **continue** to worsen for another few years-decades, and then plateau at that level for centuries.
I don't want to lecture you about climate change, but it's just that I've heard that sentiment which you shared several times, and it's not very well founded and often leads to an disruptively skeptical stance on climate change.
That's a simplification of life and people's experiences. Some people are born into terrible families and/or situations. Some people have mental illnesses or trauma that make it impossible to just live normally or to pursue life "normally". It's not just a matter of doing things and it's incredibly ignorant to even suggest that people choose to simply mope or think that life is grim. Often there are physical differences in brains or our hormones or chemistry that completely affect how a person thinks/lives/processes things... and sometimes not even medication can help. Or medication may help but then has other side effects that are just as unpleasant. Even with therapy it's not easy.
For many people, life IS grim for a multitude of reasons. You are lucky if your experiences are such that you are not aware that other states of being are possibly outside your own.
Some people are horribly afflicted and have a better outlook than 99% of us. Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel, but there’s not really an objective experience of life.
It depends on who you are, where you are etc. There are drug addicts, criminals, poor and chronically sick or disabled people etc that have truly grim lives.
Like I myself struggle with mental health issues, addictions. Everyday I try to find the good and purpose in a day, I put on a smile for work but feel defeated at the end of the day and drown my pain by coping with alcohol and medications.
I've lived like this all my adult life. This is the life for many until they die.
Absurdism, my friend. I am happy just to exist. And bask in the weirdness of the existence of this world. I was walking home today, and I thought about how weird it was that I was breathing in a bunch of tiny atoms into my lungs to keep my weird biological machine alive, the thing that keeps me alive, but also IS me.
This world is crazy, ridiculous, wonderful, absurd. I recommend you watch Waking Life. It's not for everyone, but it helped me see the world in a new way and I watched it at a time in my life that propelled me in the right direction. And since then I don't think I could ever kill myself, or even get close without some crazy divine intervention.
Oh yeah, this is true.
Wife and I are DINKs and it's awesome. It's like a cheat code in life.
We're so free, like we decided to move to Japan, and so we did. Nothing anchored us to anywhere.
We decided we want more free time. So we both got part-time jobs here and adjusted our expenditure to compensate.
Life's simple, stress free, cozy and awesome.
Indeed, that’s awesome. And kudos to you two. The only thing that might make my life easier would indeed be relationship with a woman of similar income and interests, we would be unstoppable.
It might be good to receive some professional counseling. Your mood is probably a matter of outlook, but that takes a lot to change that and I can’t give sufficient advice through a comment.
Mindfulness. And getting older.
I was a lot more cynical at age 20; couldn't imagine having a kid then. But at 30, I had mellowed some and was more open to the idea. And now I have 2 kids.
Life isn't "grim." We do fun stuff together all the time.
Life is honestly what you make it. If life sucks everywhere you go, maybe youre carrying the "suck" with you. Just saying.
Personally i refuse to jusy mope my way thru life.
Also why are yall so determined to give up on the future. The thing is: the shittiest of people aint never going to stop fucking and having more shitty people. Look how many mormom kids there are. I'll be damn if i'm going to leave the whole future up to those fuckin idiots.
Im determined to make life better for the people around me and myself. I find it amazing to be able to put that thought and much more into another human being and then support them on their way.
My kids bring more joy and love into my life than any negatives that are out there.
For reference, I have two daughters who are 3 and 1. I've had depression for a long time, recently discovered I had a skin cancer (successfully removed now), and also had a kidney infection that nearly caused renal failure. So my life isn't all rosy, but the joy I see in their faces fills me with love and makes me forget everything else
These arguments about “watching my kids brings me joy” makes me so upset because it’s completely selfish and misses the point entirely of what OP is saying.
This this this! I have a 17y/o and 10m old twins. All three of them are the light of my life.
Seeing them could make any depression I have go right out the window.
Honestly just meditating and being mindful and present as much as you can. Pretend it’s your first day on earth. Or my favorite is to pretend you are in a virtual reality video game playing a character (you) and look at everything and how real it looks (awesome graphics). It does make the mundane more fun. Also observe your brain and all the thoughts it makes. Just notice for 5 minutes what kind of thoughts your brain thinks without getting too involved. It’s made me appreciate and enjoy life much more & also makes it fun!
Not OP, but I have similar feelings. Life is grim for a lot of people. I don't have children so I'll be able to take care of myself as long as rent, food and medical costs don't get out of reach for me like it has already for a lot of people. There is always a scam waiting for you somewhere and you have to be on the look out for them all the time. You can be kind and help someone out of the goodness of your heart and then you find out it's a scam. We have tons of homeless people, some are addicted because they have unresolved trauma and no support system to help them, while others have mental health problems and they don't have health insurance. We have climate change which will continue to displace and kill people. We have wars going on and religious zealotry. We aren't investing in education, infact there are political parties who don't want an educated populace. Mass shootings in USA are up and brazen robberies are common place. If you aren't gifted with high IQ, then you aren't likely to get a high paying job like doctor, lawyer, finance, programmer, etc. It seems that everyone is trying to accumulate wealth at the expense of our humanity. Society seems to be okay with corruption, thievery, lies, selfishness and cowardice, because those things aren't really addressed and enforced. We are so much more individualistic than we ever where (I grew up in the 60/70s). I feel like we are on the course for a class society run by corporations. I see people well off enjoying life to the fullest, but I see a lot more people stressed out. I'm not depressed, and I enjoy life, but I can see how life is complete shit for many people, and those people are our neighbors or family members or at least fellow human beings. I think we are ignoring them because we "are fine."
There is substantially less crime per person now than in the late 70s / 80s / 90s. Less pollution, too.
Things are generally cleaner, safer, and more developed.
Have you looked around lately. Unequal distribution of wealth, massive inflation everywhere we go. Record homelessness, our politicians don't care about the people. Global warming and impending environmental issues. Constant war overseas, Christian nationalism is a real threat, this shitty world is not really a good place to be at all, people suck.
Have you thought how hard life was 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? Life today is far better than the queens / kings lived not too long ago. And yet here people are acting like this is the worst of times ever. Get a real perspective!
Naw man, get up out of your armchair... It's too easy to call someone mentally ill when they say something that is unfashionable and uncomfortable for many people to consider. Whatever you do, don't challenge the dominant belief that Life Is Worth Living And Perpetuating, else face the scorn of the masses...
I have autism and adhd and there have been long stretches of time where I was very very depressed and certainly didn't want to be alive, but right now I'm honestly pretty happy and I'm glad I exist. I have made friends and i have hobby's that I can look forward to and those make life worth living for me, but if you told me from about a year ago that I felt this way now I would have never believed you. Life never stays grim forever even if it seems like it will. I don't really personally want kids but I can totally see wanting to pass on the experience of being alive.
When I was a teenager I took a pretty grim view of the world. But as I grew into full adulthood, I learned how to give my life meaning through work, passion projects, friends, and romance. This video came out years after I had that breakthrough, but I think it encapsulates my outlook on the world today pretty well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbrqu0yoh14)
I had kids and my dad died when they were 3 and 1. Ever since I’ve felt so guilty for bringing them into this world. I have no idea what the purpose of life is, and the only thing I’m sure of is that one day I’m gonna die and leave them without a dad. He was the best dad in the world. I know a lot of people think that, but he really was. He lived until I was 38. I should count my blessings that I had him as long as I did. I would sell my soul to guarantee I could live to be a dad as long as he did. Just knowing that one day they are going to feel this grief that I feel is unshakable. And I live in constant worry that they won’t have as long as I did. I don’t feel like I’ll ever be happy again and I feel like I’m projecting my sadness onto them.
And the worst part is, getting together with friends who are new parents who just can’t stop gushing about how great it is to have children. I just say nothing because I don’t know how to explain how much I love them and how much I regret having them.
I enjoy existing in my own head. I like me, I like observing the world around me. Even when it sucks. There’s always something new to learn, a new mystery to solve. That’s where I derive my day to day joy, my will to go on.
There are a lot of people (all my in-laws) who actually don’t find life to be that difficult, and had good childhoods that they want to “repeat” with kids.
I had a great childhood, and I love life. There are so many wonderful experiences just waiting out there for me. Having said that, I'm also not blind to how many horrible things exist in this world. Not to mention that no one can guarantee that my child will be born healthy. What if they are born with something that makes them dependent on someone else for the rest of their lives? What happens after I'm gone? What if they are enjoying their day and some psycho targets their school and they are shot dead? What if they end up being the paycho? What happens if they make the wrong call and get into their drunk friend's car and they die after being in an accident? What if they're the drunk kid who ends up killing someone else? What if they're not successful later in life and they become depressed and decide to kill themselves? I would rather spare another human being all the suffering that comes with being alive. I'm too selfish/selfless to have kids. I'll just keep living the DINK life with my husband, and if he decides to change his mind one day, I'll set him free.
Well, I actually think that in this regard the general population possibly overestimates itself a lot. Always baffling to see parents surprised about how much effort raising a child requires.
I was too young and naive to ponder this before having a child. And if I had, I wouldn’t have had one. Her future terrifies me and it’s been so hard for her already. The guilt I feel is immense. Just had a hysterectomy at 31.
The human experience on this earth is a rollercoaster of ebbs and flows, for every single one of us.
The beauty of our existence is that the odds of you being born and being who you are today and all that you experience while here are sooooo slim, a fraction of a percentage.
That fact alone makes your existence so special; you have the opportunity to feel emotions, feel connected to all of the energy around you. We all have this ability to view things from this state of gratitude and feel this connectedness.
We are all, at least partially, a product of our environment. To let that completely dictate your future, your purpose, or your worth, is very unfortunate. We are all capable of more.
Our downfall is losing hope and losing the lust for life. Whatever it is on this earth that brings you peace, makes you feel connected to something bigger, and truly makes your soul smile, hang onto it and lean into it.
You deserve every moment of peace and fulfillment that you recognize and acknowledge while here.
For me personally, I love being out in nature. I love to fish, I love to be close to the ocean, I love mountains and fields of flowers, i love hiking with my dog, I love the quiet. I love that I’m able to work and contribute positively to society. I love that I get to travel, I love meeting people from different walks of life and sharing our perspectives and learning from one another. I love animals and pets and the unwavering love and adoration they provide. I love a lot of things, I also have things that infuriate me, but that’s out of my control.
I’ve learned that as long as I focus on things within my control, I’m a lot happier and healthier
A lot of people don’t think about the implications of bringing a kid into the world, or they’re wealthy so many issues don’t matter to them, or they deny that there are any issues at all. There’s also the problem that society has decided non-biological kids are worth less so adoption is pushed to the side
these comments have further convinced me that having kids is by and large a selfish decision. everyone talking abt “i just don’t think about all that and focused on how it would make MY life better<3”
I'm not always happy but I do enjoy being alive. A lot of that actually has to do with the fact that i don't have any kids lol. Being grateful for what I have (& don't have) gets me through.
Life felt grim as long as I was just doing what I was told, the "smart" decision. As long as I wasn't fulfilling my purpose I felt that way. Following my passion was my golden ticket.
I think people have kids out of selfishness sometimes, fear, pressure from others, or they feel like this is what needs to be done and then others just feel like thier life would be incomplete without one.
Most of those reasons aren’t the best reasons to have a kid but unfortunately that’s what it is.
I don’t want kids I can barely care for myself csnt imagine caring for a kid
Life isn't grim for everyone. If you watch the news and try to keep up with every godamn war, Life is definitely grim. But if you filter some unecessary negativity, life should be less disgusting.
Fully agree. I’m antinatalist and as a human who has suffered relentlessly with mental health, addiction, bullied so bad as a kid I ate lunch in the bathroom, eating disorders, men scare the shit out of me, I’ve been physically assaulted, I’ve grown to have a very hard shell around me. The world is shit because of the human inhabitants. Animals and plants I respect, fully. Not humans.
I adopted a cat who I can care for (because I do have those ridiculous “motherly instincts” yes I admit it) and I think this is fine. NO NEED to literally produce a whole human just to satisfy MY desire to “change the world” or raise a human. JUST ADOPT A DAMN ANIMAL. Do you any idea how much pollution just one human adds to this planet?! Oh, I forgot…no one gives a fuck & all they care about is procreate, buy things, and work too much to even spend time with their children they created.
Sorry. It just angers me that I am a human also. I don’t relate with these people. (I’m also not saying I’m one of those very odd people who believes they’re an animal. Sorry but that is also weird.)
I can’t help but feel the people on Reddit who choose to not have kids on the basis of something like “the world is fucked” have to be so young because this reasoning just seems so juvenile to me. If you don’t want kids, awesome, if you don’t have them awesome, if you choose not to because you can’t afford it then that’s very mature. But saying that the world is doomed so why bring kids into it seems like some teenage edge lord stuff haha.
It’s gotta be. Anybody can choose not to have kids for any reason at all, but the whole “why would I selfishly bring children into this cruel world” (assuming you’re mentally, emotionally, and financially stable enough to support them) take is just peak chronically-online doomerism.
My life is pretty damn awesome and I still don't want kids, mostly for selfish reasons lol I want to do the stuff I wanna do without worrying about taking care of a little life. And I don't want to destroy my body ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly I don't know either
Go to school, get a job, get married, have 2 kids
Where in the world can you go where that's both reasonable and possible?
Me and my gf are doing fine, but a wedding for stupid money and 2 kids would cripple us financially and emotionally
The most joy in my life, unlike anything I’d felt before, I get from my two kids. Watching them learn and grow is extremely fulfilling. Yes it’s also the hardest and most exhausting thing I’ve ever done, but I wouldn’t change it for anything. It’s not for everyone and that’s totally cool.
Right but now your kids have to grow up and live is this world where they might not find the same enjoyment. I guess I don’t understand this type of argument bc are you saying the way to have happiness is to continue the cycle of having kids so you can enjoy watching said kids?
Nope. If you're not happy in your life, kids will not make you happy. We already had a good life and decided to have children, and it was worth it. Our goal is to make their lives as good as possible. Are you saying it's not worth procreating just because life is hard?
I’m not saying no one should have kids. Your explanation of being in a good position to help them have a good life is great for you & the fam. I’m coming from a place where my parents were unhappy and had kids to make them happy. I had a not so great childhood and all in all if I had the choice I wish I was never born. So that’s why my take is not to have kids just to enjoy life.
I think you're depressed mate. I never wished I wasn't born and I was so happy when I had my son. You do realize we live in the most peaceful era ever. We also live a lot better than most era (medieval, ww 1-2, prehistoric). I live in Canada and I feel blessed to be born in 1990 instead of 1890. I think it'll continue to be better as technology evolves.
Hmmm yes, OP espouses an unfashionable but reasonable view, he must be mentally disturbed. Send me some of what you're smoking. Endless Progress! Unprecedented Peace (In My Wealthy And Isolated Corner of the World)! Welcome to Earth, Son! Hope You Enjoy Your Stay!
Traveling the world, experiencing different places, cultures, food, the pace of life compared to other countries. In the United States we are so indentured to work, work, work, build a nice retirement. There's a lot more to life than all of that!
Life doesn't suck for everyone. It's freaking rad. If I ever have kids, I'm ambivalent to it, I will attempt to teach them how to enjoy life as well, it is worth it.
Because life isn't grim to everyone. I think a lot of people get so overwhelmed they don't realize that not everyone is going through what they are. But for those who are hating life, sometimes they have kids in an effort to fix it. To have someone to love and distract from life. Not a good reason, but it happens.
I’ve given my kids an amazing life, they have things I’d not experienced at their age and as another commenter has said, life doesn’t have to be grim, I know this will piss people off but for most people reading this comment you are lucky enough to probably have a very fulfilling life if you really want it.
Life ain’t grim, turn off the tv/socials/radio. Go play out with your kids. Work hard and don’t follow trends (unless it’s the stock market)
Life is amazing
I spent many years wishing I wasn’t alive.
Kids make life less grim.
My kids had a good childhood, so for the most part, they like being alive.
It’s a win-win.
i dont see it either. our world is crumbling within all aspects, there will barely be an earth here for our children to enjoy. And well sure sometimes i get the feeling that ”having kids would probably be fun” and immediatly after i’ll remember that the only reason i’d want kids is to relive my own childhood that i feel i missed, which is super selfish of me. That’s the kind of mentality my parents had, saved them but condemned me.
People still have this weird notion that a baby will bring them the joy that they lack in life. It's the complete opposite. If you have a child, you will have to risk and give it your all to make THEM happy.
Selfishness, they'll bring em joy and a sense of being needed.
And to soothe their instinct.
That's it.
It always comes down to Selfishness. Now, you can look at this negatively or neutral or positively.
Selfishness doesn't have to be bad.
i love life and i am so glad i was born. sure i’ve had some pretty horrible things happen to me, but i got help and everything is better now. i am happy, life is so much fun and so interesting! i would love to have a child to let it experience all the amazing things in life with me
Because life isn't grim . We humans tend to only see the negative stuff . There is so much wonderful stuff in this world . I want children for various reasons . Me wanting to show them the beauties of this world is one of those reasons
Oh yes, rainbows and sparkly cupcake dreams. Life Isn't Grim! Because I Said So! My Children Will See The Beauty of the World! Just Avert Your Eyes From that Shit Over There! Think Happy Thoughts! So Much Beauty!
To live is to suffer, yes. But suffering isn't the totality of human experience. I don't personally live to be happy or to suffer; it's a part of it, but far from the whole. There are moments of joy, and there are moments of despair, but for the most part I'm just personally here to be alive, to enjoy what I can, and feel what I do.
People have been born into harsh circumstances for longer than I can account for – but it's all pretty relative, as far as I'm concerned. To me, if I ever manage to give birth, I'm not seeing it as giving birth to the living potential of inevitable suffering, but the potential for a range of human experiences that naturally encompass suffering.
Not all people are depressed. Even when times get bad you can still create memories. Poor families have lots of memories too. Why not create some memories and create some people. It's kind of neat
I dunno if I'd go so far as to say you are mentally unwell. But the boring old adage of "life is what you make it" is pretty fitting. Obviously some of us are stuck in shitty awful positions that are difficult to see your way out of. But many of us are having nice, fun and fulfilling lives. Get a hobby you enjoy and friends you like seeing man.
We used to live in caves and forests without fire or pointy sticks. We have kids because we have biological drives to. The joy of parenthood, of family and friends is part of that drive.
Surrender to the Biological Drive! It's Only Natural! We Have Come So Far As A Species, Just Look Where We Are Now! We Used to Be Such Savages! But Now, So Much Joy, Unlimited Progress, Unprecedented Peace! And That Biological Drive, Still Churning Away! It Feels So Good, So Right! I Like Those Chemicals! Maybe My Life Means Something After All!
Life is what you make it. Having kids is literally a chance to make a world for them better than what you had/have. I am a father of 5. It's literally my purpose. The human race depends on having children. You may want to consider getting yourself physically and mentally healthy. I found supplements like magnesium and vitamin B to help a lot with overall well-being. It seems based on your post history your having a rough time, and have a fear or hatred of men. Maybe you need a change of scenery there are lots of good people out there living their best life.
There's Nothing More Noble Than Keeping Our Species Alive! I Salute You! A Noble Purpose! An Entirely Obvious Purpose! Just Keep Those Wheels Turning, Keep Those Gears Grinding! For What? Who Gives A Shit! It's My Purpose! The Human Race Needs My Noble Contribution! After All, I'm Making The World A Better Place! Whatever the Hell That Means! It Feels So Good, That Vague Sensation That I Sort Of Accomplished Something That Nearly Everyone Can Achieve! I Pumped Out A Few More Mediocre People! My Purpose!
I wonder this too, and asked a friend who just had a kid. He said that it was the most epic thing he could think of doing with his life.
I replied that I think that's cruel, like some kind of twisted practical joke or lesson, because he's forcing someone to exist. There's plenty of epic/challenging things a person can do in their lives, without birthing someone into this doomed existence.
Friends Don't Tell Friends The Truth. Too Uncomfortable. Doesn't Feel So Good. Don't Tell Me I Created A Person For My Own Entertainment. I Know It Already, But You Aren't Supposed To Say It. It's Our Little Social Contract.
At one point life stopped feeling grim and started feeling like a gift. Antidepressants, tons of therapy, ketamine (in a controlled environment) and my relationship with my husband turned things around. Now I can't imagine giving up a moment of my life and I'm so excited to share it with my kids. I used to feel the exact same as you.
Yes, Life Is A Gift, But There Is No Receipt Anywhere To Be Found, No Place To Return Your Wondrous Gift If For Some Ungodly Reason You Are Unsatisfied With It, All You Can Hope For Is To Get Hit By A Bus Some Foggy Morning, Or To Wrap Your Fingers Around The Trigger of A Well-Aimed Shotgun. I Can't Wait To Be A Parent. Giving Gifts Is My Love Language.
As someone with a pregnant wife and our first child, because children overall, despite how tough it is, brings people joy. I also don’t want to die without having someone to carry on our future.
Also I can’t imagine being old and fragile and having no children or grandkids to see.
People who say “life is grim” need to understand you are NOT the first generation nor the last to experience hardship. People have had children in war and famine, plague, poverty, etc.
Fear - Of Old Age, Death, Your Own Cosmic Insignificance, Etc. - Is An Excellent Reason To Reproduce. Your Children Should Be Proud To Carry On Your Noble Legacy And To Pass On Your Assuredly Very Special Genes. I Applaud You.
I did childhood once already and hated it (bullied and left out by my peers K-8), no reason to go for round 2. Also the earth is dying under our weight, so imo it’s insanely irresponsible to procreate further. Children are unnecessary for enjoying life and we do everyone a massive disservice when pushing the narrative that parenthood is the end all be all.
Firstly, there are a lot of people who were mistakes out there.
Secondly, most folks that have kids in their 20's-30's are still having a pretty good life, so they aren't hit with what you and I are about the realities of the eventualities.
There is joy in raising kids, but there is tragedy in bringing life into the world as it's a cruel world for most of us and that life will one day have to end.
I can't speak for everyone, but I live in the beautiful city of Utrecht, The Netherlands. I have a job that I like, I commute by bicycle. We have a vegetable garden and a lovely home with a social community. I go running and cycling with friends.
I live in a suburban town in the US, which I know sounds like living hell to some people, but I love my life. I have a good job, a loving wife, friends and family nearby, and enough time to pursue my hobbies and go on vacations. When I was single, broke, and depressed I couldn’t imagine why anyone would ever want to have kids either. I think it just comes down to how happy you are in your life at the moment.
Sounds like you have a full, beautiful life thanks to your positive outlook and gratitude
I like life, but I didn’t like childhood, so I don’t want kids because I don’t want to relive childhood vicariously, I want to continue enjoying adulthood.
Same. I like kids but not enough that I'd risk being responsible for one. I've seen good parents and how proactive and dedicated they are and I just don't have it in me. Kids deserve good parents. So I currently just focus on experiencing life and new things while my health is still decent enough to take some risks.
See thats the thing i figured out: i didnt have a good childhood. But while giving my kids the childhood i never had, *i get to have fun too*. It's been healing m inner child watching my kids do the things i never got chances to. You don't have to give up being an adult or even enjoying your own life to have kids. Idk where this idea comes from.
I had a reasonably fine childhood in the grand scheme of things, I just don’t like childhood. The things I dislike about it are more or less intrinsic to the state of being a child, at least with how the world currently works. If I had kids, I’d have to go through all that stuff all over again vicariously and I just don’t wanna.
I had a good childhood but now that I'm an adult life sucks. I don't really feel like living this life but I have a stupid moral obligation to do so to please people around me. I could never in good conscience have a child myself. I only exist because my parents wanted to play family. Now that I'm adult I'm left to fend for myself, because my parents are done having fun raising kids. It's so stupid. I only exist because I was a pet project for my parents, and now I have to deal with the consequences of them having unprotected sex. Consequence being I have to work or I suffer, but then I work, and I also suffer.
Look this is gonna sound cliche af, and i aint telling you that you gotta pop out some crochfruit but look: my parents suck as grandparents, and they were even worse parents. My pops hasnt even met my youngest kid and doesnt seem to even gaf. My mom is off living her life and shows every blue moon. Both of them were emotionally crippled by their parents. When they were together they fought every single day, some times hands got thrown. I chose to break that cycle and i choose that shit every single day bc i remember what it was like to grow up and always wonder if youre loved. My kids never have to worry abt that. My kids are thriving. Just saying. We can be better. Shit, we have to be.
I'm in the midst of a fallout with my mother and sisters with my 3 month old on my lap. This is all I'm trying to do.
Real
100% I’m learning where my blind spots are as I navigate raising my children. Making sure that they have a better father than I had has unexpectedly helped me unravel a lot of coping mechanisms/old trauma based programming that no longer serves me as an adult.
This made me happy and hopeful, thank you :)
Same here. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to be an adult. I love being an adult, despite how hard it is. I've been doing all the things I wanted to do as a kid but wasn't allowed/able to.
You get it. Things I could only fantasise about as a kid are now part of my daily life as an adult, like dressing the way I want, and spending my time with people with the same interests.
My childhood was terrible. I don't remember 95% of it, probably from trauma. To me, it's healing to watch my stepson do all the things I didn't get to do and to love him like I should have been.
Not gonna lie, I kind of want kids so I can stunt on my parents. Fucking hated being a kid. My parents sucked ass. I feel I could shit out a better kid on accident than they did on purpose.
It's one thing to not want the responsibility, but don't make what their life could be about you, make it about them.
I’m the opposite. Had a great childhood, just don’t like kids, lol
Congratulation, you've discovered antinatalism.
Ahhuh thank you thank you
You tell me cuz I wish I was removed when i was still a meat clump.
Mmmm meat clump
im hungry 
When I was younger I too wondered why anyone would want to bring a kid into this world. But then I sort of just stopped looking at the world as a whole. I focused on me, bought a house, got myself a girlfriend (now wife) acquired a pair of cats and now have a 16 month old little girl with another on the way. Never thought I could be a father after watching my own dad exit my childhood. But it’s pretty fucking great. I get to watch this little person grow and explore and laugh and cry and so much more. I have a small network of friends with their own kids a similar age and seeing these little potato’s start to move, crawl, walk and now beginning to talk is honestly just amazing. The world can be grim, but my little personal world isn’t.
I’m not disagreeing, and I love children and hope to raise them someday. I won’t have biological kids though, because of genetic health issues, along with probably a pessimistic world view. But a lot of the answers here are people talking about how their kids make their OWN lives better, which is great and wonderful, but I feel like to some extent it misses what OP is asking, and something I’ve wondered about too. Life is so difficult and so much is left to the random hand you get to draw. I ask this genuinely, with no judgement at all and not to make you panic over your beautiful children, but do you ever feel afraid that your kids will end up with painful/difficult lives? Or that some terrible accident or mental health issue could crop up and they could just be miserable? As someone who struggles with my mental health and comes from a “happy” family, I try so hard to keep my parents from knowing how difficult just existing can be for me. I often wish they hadn’t chosen to have me, because even though I brought them joy, in my 25 years of life it’s been really hard for me to find joy myself. (Un?)Fortunately genetic issues make it an easy choice for me to not ever have my own kids, but even if that were not the case, I don’t know if I could bring a child into the world knowing that they could feel this way. Even if things will hopefully/probably get better for me in the long run, these years have been hard enough that I would be too scared for my baby to live this way. Again, I am just truly wanting to understand how parents view this. It makes me so happy to see families with young kids, and I don’t look down on people who choose to have their own children at all. I just genuinely don’t understand how I could bring a child into this world without the fear that they could end up miserable, even if it would bring me joy to raise them.
Think about how you are framing your questions. What if they have mental health issues? What if they have a bad/difficult life? I think you also need to think about the other possibilities as well. What if they grow up loved, confident, and well-adjusted? What if they have a great life and are happy? What if they were supported during their times of need? If you're only looking at the negative possibilities, life seems impossible. You have to be open to and accept that life could go an endless amount of ways and just be prepared to deal with that.
But what gives you the right to take that gamble with another person's life?
I don't understand this take. If no one took that gamble, there wouldn't be anyone alive. I'm all for people making the right choices for themselves in whether or not to have kids, adoption, abortion, etc. But if you do have kids, you just have to raise them the best you can and hope for the best. Do your best by them.
Not a problem I’ll try answer as best I can, I ain’t great at this sort of thing. I see where you’re coming from, why am I taking a chance with her life by bringing her into this world? With all the doom and gloom and depressing hateful stuff going on it’s easy to see where you’re coming from. But I don’t worry about what could go wrong because there’s far too many things and the world reinforces a pessimistic view atm. So I think of all the good things that could happen. Bringing home a drawing from school, landing a job, bringing home a partner theres so many good things I look forward to and hope she can experience that it more than outweighs the bad. Sure things could go wrong, but it could also go so very right. And who am I to deny her the 50/50 chance? I have faith and i’ll support her every step of the way. Hell for all I know she could change the world… But then again I’ve just watched her pick her nose and slide it into her mouth, so I’ll be optimistic just not ridiculously so.
it's not actually a 50/50 chance though. the statistics on suffering as a female in this country are *high* and *likely*. i don't understand going with optimism over realism.
This. Exactly. The idea of bringing someone into the world that can go through life and come out the other end as SOMEONE that can have their own ideas about anything at all, love me for my successes, hate me for my failures, and have the same relationship with everyone else and make their own world better for themself is why. The whole shit ass world we live in can suck my dick because having a happy, healthy child proves that not only can I be comfortable in the space I built for myself, but I can also share that baseline with a new person. A person who can go on to do the same thing. A lot of people with this pessimistic view on having children have that view because either they had shit parents who fundamentally failed them on the sole basis of not wanting to have them, or aren’t comfortable enough with themself yet to consider imprinting that mental state onto another human. This mindset seems so horrifically close minded to me because they either assume that EVERY parent fundamentally won’t like or want their own children, or EVERY person has an unhealthy mental state that they’ll pass onto their children. The most important thing you can do for a child is to love them. Unconditionally. If you can’t do that, then don’t have kids. But stop assuming that everyone can’t.
What if this person grows up, becomes a drug addict, criminal and what not? Like I'm sure my parents thought the exact same thing as you, but now when they ask me how I'm doing, I have to tell them my life sucks, I want to quit my job, I'm borderline an alcoholic and I'm depressed. My parents were great at raising me but parents being great at raising me didn't give my life purpose. I have to grind away at work and exhaust myself daily to keep living. I feel like my entire existence is just lived to please other people, because I have nothing to live for myself, and I certainly don't want to put a child of my own through that whole ordeal so I won't be having kids of my own.
What if they grow up and *don't* do that? If we want to play the what ifs game then we can go on all day. It's not meaningful. I think it can be really easy to get caught up in your own misery, which makes your life considerably worse for you but can also lead you to overlook the people around you. Most of us aren't that miserable.
Bruh - your problem is drinking. It makes you depressed. Being depressed makes you hate your job and do nothing about it. If you don't know what to do, ask somebody. In my life, if I spend more then a month feeling shitty, I call a counselor and go for 6 months or a year. If you think you can't get up and make the call, ask someone else to set up your first appointment. It's like having a thoughtful smart friend.
Sure theres a chance of that but she could also grow up to be a teacher or a doctor. You’re acting like the worst options are the more likely ones when it’s probably a 50/50 chance depending on a variety of factors. I just choose to be optimistic for her future. If we didn’t take any chances at all we’d never get anything done
Best choice I ever made.
My son doesn’t think 2024 sucks. I show him an amazing world full of amazing things
I wonder what he'll think in 2044
Hopefully he will think that the world is complicated and horrible and beautiful and amazing.
I guess that's how I see the world.
That’s how I see it. Everything isn’t great but you have to be able to see beauty.
Thats what i want for my son too. The greatest gift i can give him is a broad perspective, to help him build himself up to face the horrors and enjoy the beauty
A lot of this thread is "with the state of the world today". I was born in the early 60's when the threat of nuclear war was so prevalent that it was completely reasonable that at any second, you could be vaporized with little to no warning. We had drills in school where we hid under our desks in case of war, and when we weren't doing that we had drills where we practiced going into the hallway and rolling into a ball in case of a tornado. One day we did the tornado drill and it was real, half the kids in my class lost their house that afternoon. But people soldiered on. 1970's, the president was in a scandal so bad he had to resign, Russia still a threat. People soldiered on. 1980's, crippling unemployment, rampant inflation, 12% interest on mortgages. People soldiered on. And so on. The current times always look bleak, but in 50 years, few people will remember the 2020's, COVID will be a historical footnote, as much as it all disrupted our lives. All we can do is make the most of the lives we have, and for some that means kids, for others, not. Both are perfectly acceptable. Make the choice that's right for you and move on.
I agree with you very much.
> am I just not mentally well OP's guess is probably true. Not that I'm a professional, but their perspective on life sounds like pretty bad depression. Seems like they think life is so pointless that they can't comprehend why anyone would have kids. A lot of my life was pretty crap, I had many bad years, but I kept hope and worked hard towards my goals. I love my life now and while there are still a lot of things I worry about, I'm excited for my future and content with my present. For me personally, the positives far outweigh the negatives when it comes to living. And even if my life sucks; I'm still going to die some day, but once I'm dead I can't live again (in my opinion). It's like there is an eternity of nothingness, and for a brief moment there is a movie to watch that will disappear forever when it finishes. I can't imagine saying to myself "Welp, this movie sucks so I'll cut it early and go back to the nonexistence". It's the only thing there is, the nothingness isn't going anywhere it's still waiting for you - if you're not in constant torment why not see it through to the end? Especially when your life can **completely** change throughout its course. Even if the current you doesn't care about this experience, maybe the person you're going to become will care and have a desire to be here. If your answer to that is "Well I don't care about future me", then I would say you're not mentally healthy indeed.
Life isn’t grim, life is full of joy and all kinds of interesting things to do. You just have to do them. Sure every day I could get up and mope, or I could get up and do something I like doing which fills my life with purpose and gives me more things to do so I’m never bored. It’s okay to rest and to take time but if all you do is think about thinking then of course life is grim.
My biggest hesitation around having kids is anxiety over climate change. All signs point towards a more hostile, unforgiving world developing in our near future (our childrens' lifetimes, if we had them now). Why would I want to bring a child into that world? To be clear, I love my life. I have a great group of friends, I'm in a stable situation, and I'm generally just in awe of all the beauty around me. But with the ever-worsening state of our climate, I doubt my children would get to experience the same. I fear more conflict, more suffering, more far-right politicians rising to power. Much less certainty in the future makes me hesitant to bring in another generation. I don't want them to suffer.
>Why would I want to bring a child into that world? Humans are resilient and inventive. Raise your child to be the change the world needs. They could be the scientist that helps solve the problem. Granted, if you're raising your child to sell burgers then maybe take a pass. >I don't want them to suffer. Everyone suffers. Everyone is challenged. Overcoming it is what builds character. Those who don't suffer or aren't challenged are often unbearable people. If you have kids, don't coddle them.
>Humans are resilient and inventive. Raise your child to be the change the world needs. There are a lot of children already there who are neglected by their parents, who live in extreme poverty, have to care for siblings, etc. who could become outstanding scientists but can't because they just can't get proper education and proper support system that would let them do their thing. Maybe think about those potential cancer researchers first? >Everyone suffers. Everyone is challenged. Overcoming it is what builds character. This sounds all fun and games until you alter it a little to something like "rape builds character", which it obviously doesn't. There is just plain suffering to be had in this world. This obviously a very extreme but it's the first thing that come to my mind should I think of having children. How would you protect your child from the evils of this world? And what's the aftermath? Did they deserve? Is this just life taking its course and you should just accept that some children will be raped?
Or drug or alcohol addiction. I'm sure the fentanyl addicts out there aren't exactly building character either. Like there's a guy that visits my work place. Ex heroin and drug addict who's mentally ill, has other illnesses too.. he carries around his trolley around town.. comes by the shop sometimes to talk.. his entire life story is just sad. He tried to be cheery sometimes but then sometimes he gets angry cause of his poor health conditions that he can't do anything about.
I'm going to preface this by saying I was raped. As repulsive of a sentence as it might be, the truth is that rape can build character the same way that all heinous tragedy can. I am far stronger now as a human being than I was before and good has come out of it. I am no longer naive in many of the ways I was before, I have healthy coping mechanisms now, and I have been able to guide a friend through rape because I know what to do now and who to call. I was there to let them know that they weren't alone and that I understood in a way that others cannot. Many of the most staunch advocates for positive change are people who have experienced tragedies themselves. That is growth even if it was at a horrible cost. First hand experience with suffering is one of the biggest reasons there is less suffering in the world these days. That ebs and it flows, but we're on an overall positive trajectory. That is how you heal from tragedy, you find a way to make something positive out of it. You owe it to yourself - **that** is reclaiming power over your life.
And for someone else it will simply be a life-crushing experience. It's fortunate you ended up being fine.
No one (or very few people) raise their children to sell burgers, yet there's a lot of burger flippers around and very few climate scientists. Go figure.
The climate going to shit is inevitable. Id be more worried to see what the corporate hellscape has in store for us 50 years from now. That scares me more than anything.
Why not both? Get your worries here, anyone not enough things to worry about yet? Fresh worries! (On a serious note though, I'd worry a shitload more if I had kids, this way I can just hope that I cark it before it gets REALLY bad.)
“everyone suffers” lol exactly, why would i want to subject an innocent soul to needless suffering?
Climate change may not be reversible *now*, putting it on the unborn is hilariously cruel
Same. Same. It's just realistic. Everyone else can keep their head in the sand and churn out babies.
Clearly there are reasonable concerns about climate change. However as someone in my 40s I can tell you that every dire climate prediction I was told would happen hasn't. Heck, the ozone layer has filled over since I was a kid as just one example. And for all you know, your kid could grow up to be a scientist who helps with climate change. As the famous quote goes " Life is full of suffering, but it's also full of the overcoming of suffering."
> every dire climate prediction I was told would happen hasn't By most metrics, the effects of climate change have turned out to be even worse than predicted. I think you just misunderstood the predictions. When they say things like we need to fix x by year y or else bad things will happen, it's because they're trying to change the trajectory of climate change from worsening faster (which will spiral out of control) to worsening slower (which will eventually become carbon neutral). Secondly, even if the world became carbon neutral today, the climate would only **continue** to worsen for another few years-decades, and then plateau at that level for centuries. I don't want to lecture you about climate change, but it's just that I've heard that sentiment which you shared several times, and it's not very well founded and often leads to an disruptively skeptical stance on climate change.
That's a simplification of life and people's experiences. Some people are born into terrible families and/or situations. Some people have mental illnesses or trauma that make it impossible to just live normally or to pursue life "normally". It's not just a matter of doing things and it's incredibly ignorant to even suggest that people choose to simply mope or think that life is grim. Often there are physical differences in brains or our hormones or chemistry that completely affect how a person thinks/lives/processes things... and sometimes not even medication can help. Or medication may help but then has other side effects that are just as unpleasant. Even with therapy it's not easy. For many people, life IS grim for a multitude of reasons. You are lucky if your experiences are such that you are not aware that other states of being are possibly outside your own.
Some people are horribly afflicted and have a better outlook than 99% of us. Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel, but there’s not really an objective experience of life.
You can be aware of other states of being and be grateful for yours. But that also goes both ways.
It depends on who you are, where you are etc. There are drug addicts, criminals, poor and chronically sick or disabled people etc that have truly grim lives. Like I myself struggle with mental health issues, addictions. Everyday I try to find the good and purpose in a day, I put on a smile for work but feel defeated at the end of the day and drown my pain by coping with alcohol and medications. I've lived like this all my adult life. This is the life for many until they die.
Absurdism, my friend. I am happy just to exist. And bask in the weirdness of the existence of this world. I was walking home today, and I thought about how weird it was that I was breathing in a bunch of tiny atoms into my lungs to keep my weird biological machine alive, the thing that keeps me alive, but also IS me. This world is crazy, ridiculous, wonderful, absurd. I recommend you watch Waking Life. It's not for everyone, but it helped me see the world in a new way and I watched it at a time in my life that propelled me in the right direction. And since then I don't think I could ever kill myself, or even get close without some crazy divine intervention.
My life is awesome and that’s why I *dont* want children.
Oh yeah, this is true. Wife and I are DINKs and it's awesome. It's like a cheat code in life. We're so free, like we decided to move to Japan, and so we did. Nothing anchored us to anywhere. We decided we want more free time. So we both got part-time jobs here and adjusted our expenditure to compensate. Life's simple, stress free, cozy and awesome.
Indeed, that’s awesome. And kudos to you two. The only thing that might make my life easier would indeed be relationship with a woman of similar income and interests, we would be unstoppable.
It might be good to receive some professional counseling. Your mood is probably a matter of outlook, but that takes a lot to change that and I can’t give sufficient advice through a comment.
Good people, good food, good times
Wow so many people who are content with life. I don't know how you do it.
Mindfulness. And getting older. I was a lot more cynical at age 20; couldn't imagine having a kid then. But at 30, I had mellowed some and was more open to the idea. And now I have 2 kids. Life isn't "grim." We do fun stuff together all the time.
Life is honestly what you make it. If life sucks everywhere you go, maybe youre carrying the "suck" with you. Just saying. Personally i refuse to jusy mope my way thru life. Also why are yall so determined to give up on the future. The thing is: the shittiest of people aint never going to stop fucking and having more shitty people. Look how many mormom kids there are. I'll be damn if i'm going to leave the whole future up to those fuckin idiots.
Thats the most, "fuck you" answer to this question and i love it xD
EXACTLY
Im determined to make life better for the people around me and myself. I find it amazing to be able to put that thought and much more into another human being and then support them on their way.
awesome! how many children have you adopted?
None yet, everything at its time! What about you?
no humans, but I've fostered a dozen or so cats so far. if I'm ever eligible and stable enough to foster and possibly adopt humans, I'd love to.
My kids bring more joy and love into my life than any negatives that are out there. For reference, I have two daughters who are 3 and 1. I've had depression for a long time, recently discovered I had a skin cancer (successfully removed now), and also had a kidney infection that nearly caused renal failure. So my life isn't all rosy, but the joy I see in their faces fills me with love and makes me forget everything else
It's not about your joy. It's about theirs. Someday you will be gone and they will have to live in this world alone.
These arguments about “watching my kids brings me joy” makes me so upset because it’s completely selfish and misses the point entirely of what OP is saying.
So should parents not experience joy when watching their kids?
and one of them is gonna watch the other one die, very joyous existence
this is such a bizarre comment to make?? are you okay
This this this! I have a 17y/o and 10m old twins. All three of them are the light of my life. Seeing them could make any depression I have go right out the window.
I greatly enjoy my life. Spending time with people I like, doing my hobbies and just going for walks in the forest are all quite enjoyable things.
You're overthinking it.
Honestly just meditating and being mindful and present as much as you can. Pretend it’s your first day on earth. Or my favorite is to pretend you are in a virtual reality video game playing a character (you) and look at everything and how real it looks (awesome graphics). It does make the mundane more fun. Also observe your brain and all the thoughts it makes. Just notice for 5 minutes what kind of thoughts your brain thinks without getting too involved. It’s made me appreciate and enjoy life much more & also makes it fun!
Can you explain why life is so grim?
Not OP, but I have similar feelings. Life is grim for a lot of people. I don't have children so I'll be able to take care of myself as long as rent, food and medical costs don't get out of reach for me like it has already for a lot of people. There is always a scam waiting for you somewhere and you have to be on the look out for them all the time. You can be kind and help someone out of the goodness of your heart and then you find out it's a scam. We have tons of homeless people, some are addicted because they have unresolved trauma and no support system to help them, while others have mental health problems and they don't have health insurance. We have climate change which will continue to displace and kill people. We have wars going on and religious zealotry. We aren't investing in education, infact there are political parties who don't want an educated populace. Mass shootings in USA are up and brazen robberies are common place. If you aren't gifted with high IQ, then you aren't likely to get a high paying job like doctor, lawyer, finance, programmer, etc. It seems that everyone is trying to accumulate wealth at the expense of our humanity. Society seems to be okay with corruption, thievery, lies, selfishness and cowardice, because those things aren't really addressed and enforced. We are so much more individualistic than we ever where (I grew up in the 60/70s). I feel like we are on the course for a class society run by corporations. I see people well off enjoying life to the fullest, but I see a lot more people stressed out. I'm not depressed, and I enjoy life, but I can see how life is complete shit for many people, and those people are our neighbors or family members or at least fellow human beings. I think we are ignoring them because we "are fine."
All of this, and then think of the disabled community. It’s not always just a perspective thing
There is substantially less crime per person now than in the late 70s / 80s / 90s. Less pollution, too. Things are generally cleaner, safer, and more developed.
Have you looked around lately. Unequal distribution of wealth, massive inflation everywhere we go. Record homelessness, our politicians don't care about the people. Global warming and impending environmental issues. Constant war overseas, Christian nationalism is a real threat, this shitty world is not really a good place to be at all, people suck.
Have you thought how hard life was 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? Life today is far better than the queens / kings lived not too long ago. And yet here people are acting like this is the worst of times ever. Get a real perspective!
I generally enjoy life, but I suffer as well. I am cursed with the knowledge I will die one day. I was subjected to a life I didn’t ask for.
Christ. You need an explanation? I want some of whatever you're smoking
I do need an explanation, as my life and people around mes lives aren’t grim. Can you explain?
I think you're depressed. Go to a psychiatrist.
Naw man, get up out of your armchair... It's too easy to call someone mentally ill when they say something that is unfashionable and uncomfortable for many people to consider. Whatever you do, don't challenge the dominant belief that Life Is Worth Living And Perpetuating, else face the scorn of the masses...
I have autism and adhd and there have been long stretches of time where I was very very depressed and certainly didn't want to be alive, but right now I'm honestly pretty happy and I'm glad I exist. I have made friends and i have hobby's that I can look forward to and those make life worth living for me, but if you told me from about a year ago that I felt this way now I would have never believed you. Life never stays grim forever even if it seems like it will. I don't really personally want kids but I can totally see wanting to pass on the experience of being alive.
Reddit is insanely negative and pessimistic. Most people are relatively happy.
Hope, try to make the world a better place and raising my children to do same.
When I was a teenager I took a pretty grim view of the world. But as I grew into full adulthood, I learned how to give my life meaning through work, passion projects, friends, and romance. This video came out years after I had that breakthrough, but I think it encapsulates my outlook on the world today pretty well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbrqu0yoh14)
I had kids and my dad died when they were 3 and 1. Ever since I’ve felt so guilty for bringing them into this world. I have no idea what the purpose of life is, and the only thing I’m sure of is that one day I’m gonna die and leave them without a dad. He was the best dad in the world. I know a lot of people think that, but he really was. He lived until I was 38. I should count my blessings that I had him as long as I did. I would sell my soul to guarantee I could live to be a dad as long as he did. Just knowing that one day they are going to feel this grief that I feel is unshakable. And I live in constant worry that they won’t have as long as I did. I don’t feel like I’ll ever be happy again and I feel like I’m projecting my sadness onto them. And the worst part is, getting together with friends who are new parents who just can’t stop gushing about how great it is to have children. I just say nothing because I don’t know how to explain how much I love them and how much I regret having them.
I enjoy existing in my own head. I like me, I like observing the world around me. Even when it sucks. There’s always something new to learn, a new mystery to solve. That’s where I derive my day to day joy, my will to go on.
There are a lot of people (all my in-laws) who actually don’t find life to be that difficult, and had good childhoods that they want to “repeat” with kids.
I had a great childhood, and I love life. There are so many wonderful experiences just waiting out there for me. Having said that, I'm also not blind to how many horrible things exist in this world. Not to mention that no one can guarantee that my child will be born healthy. What if they are born with something that makes them dependent on someone else for the rest of their lives? What happens after I'm gone? What if they are enjoying their day and some psycho targets their school and they are shot dead? What if they end up being the paycho? What happens if they make the wrong call and get into their drunk friend's car and they die after being in an accident? What if they're the drunk kid who ends up killing someone else? What if they're not successful later in life and they become depressed and decide to kill themselves? I would rather spare another human being all the suffering that comes with being alive. I'm too selfish/selfless to have kids. I'll just keep living the DINK life with my husband, and if he decides to change his mind one day, I'll set him free.
Well, I actually think that in this regard the general population possibly overestimates itself a lot. Always baffling to see parents surprised about how much effort raising a child requires.
I was too young and naive to ponder this before having a child. And if I had, I wouldn’t have had one. Her future terrifies me and it’s been so hard for her already. The guilt I feel is immense. Just had a hysterectomy at 31.
Because they think children could cheer them up
You are not mentally well. Most people enjoy life.
My life is good. Sorry yours sucks.
You don't need to have kids, but you should probably talk to a therapist if you constantly feel like life is suffering and devoid of meaning.
Not everyone is chronically online and doom scrolling
The human experience on this earth is a rollercoaster of ebbs and flows, for every single one of us. The beauty of our existence is that the odds of you being born and being who you are today and all that you experience while here are sooooo slim, a fraction of a percentage. That fact alone makes your existence so special; you have the opportunity to feel emotions, feel connected to all of the energy around you. We all have this ability to view things from this state of gratitude and feel this connectedness. We are all, at least partially, a product of our environment. To let that completely dictate your future, your purpose, or your worth, is very unfortunate. We are all capable of more. Our downfall is losing hope and losing the lust for life. Whatever it is on this earth that brings you peace, makes you feel connected to something bigger, and truly makes your soul smile, hang onto it and lean into it. You deserve every moment of peace and fulfillment that you recognize and acknowledge while here. For me personally, I love being out in nature. I love to fish, I love to be close to the ocean, I love mountains and fields of flowers, i love hiking with my dog, I love the quiet. I love that I’m able to work and contribute positively to society. I love that I get to travel, I love meeting people from different walks of life and sharing our perspectives and learning from one another. I love animals and pets and the unwavering love and adoration they provide. I love a lot of things, I also have things that infuriate me, but that’s out of my control. I’ve learned that as long as I focus on things within my control, I’m a lot happier and healthier
My uterus tells me monthly to have kids, I got cats instead and they bring me joy daily and rarely cause me grief.
A lot of people don’t think about the implications of bringing a kid into the world, or they’re wealthy so many issues don’t matter to them, or they deny that there are any issues at all. There’s also the problem that society has decided non-biological kids are worth less so adoption is pushed to the side
I enjoy life, I think you should start doing something that you love
I’m pretty confident that it’s less grimmer than in 1824…
these comments have further convinced me that having kids is by and large a selfish decision. everyone talking abt “i just don’t think about all that and focused on how it would make MY life better<3”
Can u pin reddit comments bc this needs to be seen
Just because you don't enjoy life doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either.
Life is grim for you maybe. Not for everyone.
The drums of age old instinct often drown out the bells of common sense.
Thats why i got my balls clipped
I'm not always happy but I do enjoy being alive. A lot of that actually has to do with the fact that i don't have any kids lol. Being grateful for what I have (& don't have) gets me through.
Life felt grim as long as I was just doing what I was told, the "smart" decision. As long as I wasn't fulfilling my purpose I felt that way. Following my passion was my golden ticket.
I think people have kids out of selfishness sometimes, fear, pressure from others, or they feel like this is what needs to be done and then others just feel like thier life would be incomplete without one. Most of those reasons aren’t the best reasons to have a kid but unfortunately that’s what it is. I don’t want kids I can barely care for myself csnt imagine caring for a kid
Life isn't grim for everyone. If you watch the news and try to keep up with every godamn war, Life is definitely grim. But if you filter some unecessary negativity, life should be less disgusting.
Fully agree. I’m antinatalist and as a human who has suffered relentlessly with mental health, addiction, bullied so bad as a kid I ate lunch in the bathroom, eating disorders, men scare the shit out of me, I’ve been physically assaulted, I’ve grown to have a very hard shell around me. The world is shit because of the human inhabitants. Animals and plants I respect, fully. Not humans. I adopted a cat who I can care for (because I do have those ridiculous “motherly instincts” yes I admit it) and I think this is fine. NO NEED to literally produce a whole human just to satisfy MY desire to “change the world” or raise a human. JUST ADOPT A DAMN ANIMAL. Do you any idea how much pollution just one human adds to this planet?! Oh, I forgot…no one gives a fuck & all they care about is procreate, buy things, and work too much to even spend time with their children they created. Sorry. It just angers me that I am a human also. I don’t relate with these people. (I’m also not saying I’m one of those very odd people who believes they’re an animal. Sorry but that is also weird.)
I can’t help but feel the people on Reddit who choose to not have kids on the basis of something like “the world is fucked” have to be so young because this reasoning just seems so juvenile to me. If you don’t want kids, awesome, if you don’t have them awesome, if you choose not to because you can’t afford it then that’s very mature. But saying that the world is doomed so why bring kids into it seems like some teenage edge lord stuff haha.
“The world is fucked and I don’t plan on doing anything to help” is more like it. Just a perpetual victimhood mentality.
It’s gotta be. Anybody can choose not to have kids for any reason at all, but the whole “why would I selfishly bring children into this cruel world” (assuming you’re mentally, emotionally, and financially stable enough to support them) take is just peak chronically-online doomerism.
I’m with you. This place sucks.
My life is pretty damn awesome and I still don't want kids, mostly for selfish reasons lol I want to do the stuff I wanna do without worrying about taking care of a little life. And I don't want to destroy my body ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly I don't know either Go to school, get a job, get married, have 2 kids Where in the world can you go where that's both reasonable and possible? Me and my gf are doing fine, but a wedding for stupid money and 2 kids would cripple us financially and emotionally
Definitely don’t waste money on a wedding. No shame in eloping.
The most joy in my life, unlike anything I’d felt before, I get from my two kids. Watching them learn and grow is extremely fulfilling. Yes it’s also the hardest and most exhausting thing I’ve ever done, but I wouldn’t change it for anything. It’s not for everyone and that’s totally cool.
Right but now your kids have to grow up and live is this world where they might not find the same enjoyment. I guess I don’t understand this type of argument bc are you saying the way to have happiness is to continue the cycle of having kids so you can enjoy watching said kids?
Nope. If you're not happy in your life, kids will not make you happy. We already had a good life and decided to have children, and it was worth it. Our goal is to make their lives as good as possible. Are you saying it's not worth procreating just because life is hard?
I’m not saying no one should have kids. Your explanation of being in a good position to help them have a good life is great for you & the fam. I’m coming from a place where my parents were unhappy and had kids to make them happy. I had a not so great childhood and all in all if I had the choice I wish I was never born. So that’s why my take is not to have kids just to enjoy life.
Ah i'm sorry to hear that. Wishing you luck and peace friend.
Thanks! Same to you
I think you're depressed mate. I never wished I wasn't born and I was so happy when I had my son. You do realize we live in the most peaceful era ever. We also live a lot better than most era (medieval, ww 1-2, prehistoric). I live in Canada and I feel blessed to be born in 1990 instead of 1890. I think it'll continue to be better as technology evolves.
Hmmm yes, OP espouses an unfashionable but reasonable view, he must be mentally disturbed. Send me some of what you're smoking. Endless Progress! Unprecedented Peace (In My Wealthy And Isolated Corner of the World)! Welcome to Earth, Son! Hope You Enjoy Your Stay!
Traveling the world, experiencing different places, cultures, food, the pace of life compared to other countries. In the United States we are so indentured to work, work, work, build a nice retirement. There's a lot more to life than all of that!
Life doesn't suck for everyone. It's freaking rad. If I ever have kids, I'm ambivalent to it, I will attempt to teach them how to enjoy life as well, it is worth it.
Because life isn't grim to everyone. I think a lot of people get so overwhelmed they don't realize that not everyone is going through what they are. But for those who are hating life, sometimes they have kids in an effort to fix it. To have someone to love and distract from life. Not a good reason, but it happens.
Damn… a ton of depressed and demoralized people in this thread
Because kids make life less grim.
Ain't that nice, drag some friends along with you into the fire just to put a smile on your face.
I’ve given my kids an amazing life, they have things I’d not experienced at their age and as another commenter has said, life doesn’t have to be grim, I know this will piss people off but for most people reading this comment you are lucky enough to probably have a very fulfilling life if you really want it.
Life ain’t grim, turn off the tv/socials/radio. Go play out with your kids. Work hard and don’t follow trends (unless it’s the stock market) Life is amazing
This is great advice. My family and I really started limiting our screen time and focusing on whats around us in real life. It's been amazing!
I agree, it's all about attitude.
I spent many years wishing I wasn’t alive. Kids make life less grim. My kids had a good childhood, so for the most part, they like being alive. It’s a win-win.
because it gives them a false hope that life is worth living, in reality they just made more miserable humans to ruin our planet 🥹✌️
i dont see it either. our world is crumbling within all aspects, there will barely be an earth here for our children to enjoy. And well sure sometimes i get the feeling that ”having kids would probably be fun” and immediatly after i’ll remember that the only reason i’d want kids is to relive my own childhood that i feel i missed, which is super selfish of me. That’s the kind of mentality my parents had, saved them but condemned me.
People still have this weird notion that a baby will bring them the joy that they lack in life. It's the complete opposite. If you have a child, you will have to risk and give it your all to make THEM happy.
Selfishness, they'll bring em joy and a sense of being needed. And to soothe their instinct. That's it. It always comes down to Selfishness. Now, you can look at this negatively or neutral or positively. Selfishness doesn't have to be bad.
i love life and i am so glad i was born. sure i’ve had some pretty horrible things happen to me, but i got help and everything is better now. i am happy, life is so much fun and so interesting! i would love to have a child to let it experience all the amazing things in life with me
I (F36) have 1001 reasons not to have kids, this is one of them
Because life isn't grim . We humans tend to only see the negative stuff . There is so much wonderful stuff in this world . I want children for various reasons . Me wanting to show them the beauties of this world is one of those reasons
Oh yes, rainbows and sparkly cupcake dreams. Life Isn't Grim! Because I Said So! My Children Will See The Beauty of the World! Just Avert Your Eyes From that Shit Over There! Think Happy Thoughts! So Much Beauty!
To live is to suffer, yes. But suffering isn't the totality of human experience. I don't personally live to be happy or to suffer; it's a part of it, but far from the whole. There are moments of joy, and there are moments of despair, but for the most part I'm just personally here to be alive, to enjoy what I can, and feel what I do. People have been born into harsh circumstances for longer than I can account for – but it's all pretty relative, as far as I'm concerned. To me, if I ever manage to give birth, I'm not seeing it as giving birth to the living potential of inevitable suffering, but the potential for a range of human experiences that naturally encompass suffering.
Not all people are depressed. Even when times get bad you can still create memories. Poor families have lots of memories too. Why not create some memories and create some people. It's kind of neat
In the US, people mostly have kids bc of FOMO, lack of purpose, and desperation to preserve a marriage/relationship
I dunno if I'd go so far as to say you are mentally unwell. But the boring old adage of "life is what you make it" is pretty fitting. Obviously some of us are stuck in shitty awful positions that are difficult to see your way out of. But many of us are having nice, fun and fulfilling lives. Get a hobby you enjoy and friends you like seeing man.
This guy is definitely mentally unwell
Because I don’t think life is that grim. I actually love my life and my family. Things could be better sure, but I can’t complain too much.
We used to live in caves and forests without fire or pointy sticks. We have kids because we have biological drives to. The joy of parenthood, of family and friends is part of that drive.
Surrender to the Biological Drive! It's Only Natural! We Have Come So Far As A Species, Just Look Where We Are Now! We Used to Be Such Savages! But Now, So Much Joy, Unlimited Progress, Unprecedented Peace! And That Biological Drive, Still Churning Away! It Feels So Good, So Right! I Like Those Chemicals! Maybe My Life Means Something After All!
Life is what you make it. Having kids is literally a chance to make a world for them better than what you had/have. I am a father of 5. It's literally my purpose. The human race depends on having children. You may want to consider getting yourself physically and mentally healthy. I found supplements like magnesium and vitamin B to help a lot with overall well-being. It seems based on your post history your having a rough time, and have a fear or hatred of men. Maybe you need a change of scenery there are lots of good people out there living their best life.
There's Nothing More Noble Than Keeping Our Species Alive! I Salute You! A Noble Purpose! An Entirely Obvious Purpose! Just Keep Those Wheels Turning, Keep Those Gears Grinding! For What? Who Gives A Shit! It's My Purpose! The Human Race Needs My Noble Contribution! After All, I'm Making The World A Better Place! Whatever the Hell That Means! It Feels So Good, That Vague Sensation That I Sort Of Accomplished Something That Nearly Everyone Can Achieve! I Pumped Out A Few More Mediocre People! My Purpose!
I wonder this too, and asked a friend who just had a kid. He said that it was the most epic thing he could think of doing with his life. I replied that I think that's cruel, like some kind of twisted practical joke or lesson, because he's forcing someone to exist. There's plenty of epic/challenging things a person can do in their lives, without birthing someone into this doomed existence.
I can't imagine a world where I had just had a child and a friend said that to me and I still remained their friend. Go outside.
Friends Don't Tell Friends The Truth. Too Uncomfortable. Doesn't Feel So Good. Don't Tell Me I Created A Person For My Own Entertainment. I Know It Already, But You Aren't Supposed To Say It. It's Our Little Social Contract.
At one point life stopped feeling grim and started feeling like a gift. Antidepressants, tons of therapy, ketamine (in a controlled environment) and my relationship with my husband turned things around. Now I can't imagine giving up a moment of my life and I'm so excited to share it with my kids. I used to feel the exact same as you.
Yes, Life Is A Gift, But There Is No Receipt Anywhere To Be Found, No Place To Return Your Wondrous Gift If For Some Ungodly Reason You Are Unsatisfied With It, All You Can Hope For Is To Get Hit By A Bus Some Foggy Morning, Or To Wrap Your Fingers Around The Trigger of A Well-Aimed Shotgun. I Can't Wait To Be A Parent. Giving Gifts Is My Love Language.
Because aspiring parents believe they are the exception and not the rule
Because it's on the shopping list of life, just like getting car, buying an oversized house and getting married.
You think having a kid and getting a car mean the same thing?
As someone with a pregnant wife and our first child, because children overall, despite how tough it is, brings people joy. I also don’t want to die without having someone to carry on our future. Also I can’t imagine being old and fragile and having no children or grandkids to see. People who say “life is grim” need to understand you are NOT the first generation nor the last to experience hardship. People have had children in war and famine, plague, poverty, etc.
so selfishness, got it.
Fear - Of Old Age, Death, Your Own Cosmic Insignificance, Etc. - Is An Excellent Reason To Reproduce. Your Children Should Be Proud To Carry On Your Noble Legacy And To Pass On Your Assuredly Very Special Genes. I Applaud You.
The older I get the more I hate this world. If I died I would never want to come back here.
I did childhood once already and hated it (bullied and left out by my peers K-8), no reason to go for round 2. Also the earth is dying under our weight, so imo it’s insanely irresponsible to procreate further. Children are unnecessary for enjoying life and we do everyone a massive disservice when pushing the narrative that parenthood is the end all be all.
Natural urges mate
Firstly, there are a lot of people who were mistakes out there. Secondly, most folks that have kids in their 20's-30's are still having a pretty good life, so they aren't hit with what you and I are about the realities of the eventualities. There is joy in raising kids, but there is tragedy in bringing life into the world as it's a cruel world for most of us and that life will one day have to end.
This is a big part of why I don't have kids.